You have sixty seconds to justify the following: >Why the

>>47209313
>this thread again

It's not three times the size. It has roughly the same mass, 75% of its shape is empty space.

>>47209313
>>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

Richest faction builds best stuff? I'm surprised Ferengi couldn't buy their way to superior ships compared to starfleet.

>>47209313
The Federation is more technologically advanced than the other factions. They the luxury of only needing to expend minimal effort to produce weapons and defensive measures that are on par with the best gear that their enemies can make.
The Klingons are a piratical/raiding culture, similar in some respects to groups like the Vikings, Mongols or Comanche. While they consider physical courage important, victory is key to them, therefore they understand that swift, stealthy attacks are the best way for their empire to expand.
The Ferengi are extremely wealthy, and are perceived as less hostile than groups like the Klingon and Romulan. Therefore, they trade and buy from everyone, and are able to pick-and-choose the best tech, putting them on par with the feds.

>>47209313
>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation
The Federation is the most advanced of the major Alpha Quadrant factions. There's plenty of evidence for that. For instance, the Romulans were struggling to develop phasing cloak during TNG. While a single Federation science vessel working in secret was able to build a working model years ago.

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships
Being able to move your fleet around invisibly is a huge strategic advantage, and in war nothing is more honorable than victory. The Klingons are actually a lot more practical than their rhetoric indicates.

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best
Why shouldn't they be able to? Like the Klingons and Romulans, the Ferengi have tech that's close enough to the Federation's to be competitive.

>>47209895
*other major Alpha Quadrant factions

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>>47209313
Better question:
>Why do phasers get used like semi-automatic rifles in battle, when they have wide-beam settings and can vaporize solid rock.

>>47209337
Well, ferengi also had to cheat, lie, and steal the stuff in their ships, so, Y'know. Not quite perfect.

>>47210180
Phasers get used on how the plot demands them. I remember an episode of the Original Series where the Enterprise used its its ship phasers on stun on an entire city, and it never gets used again.

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>>47209313
Because when mankind achieved FTL and the Vulcans noticed them and first contact happened the Vulcans gave them access to their tech.

Vulcan tech is re-fucking-tardedly advanced compared to pretty much ever other alpha / beta quadrant races in startrek.

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>>47210180
You could also ask why they use living ground troops at all.

>>47210556
In the EU the feds are all about massed hologram troops.

>>47210539
There is a reason the Vulcans are all about emotional control and being chill and peaceful.

They could have easily cub stomped everyone else had they wished it.

>>47209313
>Penis.
>Art of War.
>Jews.

>>47210222
That's just socialist propaganda. Their free market economy encouraged revolutionary entrepreneurs to bring new technologies to the market place, where free market competition brought costs down and efficiency up.

Notice that the only way to slow their rise was to infect their culture with marxist and feminist notions... right down to slipping agents into the household of the Grand Nagis.

>>47210604
I'm not the biggest trek person, but weren't the Vulcans full on barbarian for a super long time before they turned into space monks?

>>47210709
they call those romulans, and vulcans don't discuss the relationship in polite company

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>tfw the only chance for a properly funded star trek rpg will probably focus on the new films

>>47210709
>Because when mankind achieved FTL and the Vulcans noticed them and first contact happened the Vulcans gave them access to their tech.

What this anon said>>47210756

Its the classic high/dark elf relationship where they had big nasty civil wars with insane tech and super strong kung-fu elf brawls everywhere.

Until a bunch of them realized this shits not gunna work long term and left to be super tech space monks while the rest regressed some from the brutal wars and stayed assholes.

>>47210665
Slow their rise? What makes you think they were rising? They're so compulsively greedy that they wreck their own reputation (and long term profits) for any chance at a bit of extra latinum now. That's why they were excited about the Gamma Quadrant. It was a chance to exploit some fresh rubes who didn't know better yet.

>>47210709
Yes. They went full logic when they realized they wouldn't survive another nuclear war.

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It annoys me that ST loves to forget monumental shit they discover.

Pic related. Whatever the fuck happened to the Dyson Sphere?

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>>47210823
Not necessarily. Most of the current Star Trek games (both /tg/ and /v/) are still based on the original timeline. There's a hell of a lot more content to work with.

>>47210942
>Until a bunch of them realized this shits not gunna work long term and left to be super tech space monks while the rest regressed some from the brutal wars and stayed assholes.

Other way around. The Vulcans stayed on their homeworld, and the Romulans left. Also at the time they weren't super advanced: the Surak-era Vulcans were only slightly more advanced than 20th century Earth, and when the Romulans left Vulcan they were only somewhere in the 21st century in terms of technology. The 20 Romulan ships and 80,000 Romulans that left Vulcan (around the 4th century AD by Earth reckoning) were capable of Warp-2 at most. It took them 70 years of traveling to find Romulus and Remus, only a handful of the ships made it, and on reaching Romulus and Remus the Romulans had to devote everything to colonizing the worlds and lost the great majority of their knowledge.

>>47211150
It's brought up in a few Trek novels, and features prominently in Star Trek Online.

But the short version is that the Sphere, while impressive, has an inner surface area of unfathomable size. Exploring it would take centuries and could be the focus of an entire TV series in and of itself, which isn't something that Trek wants for obvious reasons.

>>47211150
Presumably generations of Federation scientists spent their entire lives studying it.

>>47209895
>Being able to move your fleet around invisibly is a huge strategic advantage, and in war nothing is more honorable than victory. The Klingons are actually a lot more practical than their rhetoric indicates.

Remember what Ezra was saying to Worf when they were discussing Klingon politics and how she doesn't romanticize it like Curzon or Jadzia. The Klingons are a lot more concerned with winning than they are with honor.

>>47211150

This was only ever a problem in DS9. TOS and TNG were episodic, and most episodes dealt with a single issue or problem. It didn't matter that they didn't go back to the Dyson Sphere because that wasn't their job. Some other science ship (or a fleet of science ships) presumably followed up, and made a lot of discoveries, but the Enterprise had already gone on to do other things.

DS9, though - at least the later parts - was a show with continuity, about a war that the Federation couldn't easily win. So all the things that occurred once in a while in TOS and TNG but didn't hurt the story (like wide-beam phasers, for example) started to become issues. You could look back through the previous series (and previous seasons of DS9) and point out all the stuff that would have made a given episode about the war a non-issue, but just got ignored/forgotten.

I'm partly convinced that's one of the reasons Voyager was what it was. Since their ship was stranded, they didn't have access to all the infrastructure the Federation had that would have made their problems easy to solve. It was also a mixture of episodic and continuity-heavy episodes, so there's that too. Possibly also why Enterprise was a prequel, and the current movies happen in an alternate universe/timeline.

>>47211218
>>47211232

It just really annoys me that its not mentioned ever again I think. The Romulans flip their shit over a Phase Cloak system yet no mention of the Feds gaining hat amounts to 250 million planets + untold tech.

Even in STO it's just a transport gate and combat zones.

>>47211332
because writers don't understand the implications of megastructures.

>>47210180
In the DS9 episode with the Starfleet projectile rifle prototype, they said it was being developed as a weapon that would work in dampening fields. It was abandoned when they went with "regenerative phasers" for that purpose.

What if regenerative phasers have trade-offs compared to normal phasers? Such as being incapable of wide-beam? Perhaps only when set in a "regenerative mode" necessarily to overcome a dampening field.

It could have been standard procedure during the Dominion War for one or both sides to utilize dampening fields to reduce the effectiveness of enemy weapons.

>>47211489

They clearly did though, especially since they had a lot of science advisors on the show. That's why it was an uninhabited (and uninhabitable) sphere, due to the star being unstable.

What, honestly, would you want the Federation to do with the sphere, anyway? They can't use the land, disassembling it would be pointless, and studying it (which they would certainly do) would take a very, very long time. Especially since going inside was dangerous for the Enterprise D, let alone any lesser ship.

>>47211554
The Trekkie in me says it'd probably come down to science ships launching specialized probes for data gathering, and the occasional Fed species science agency or civilian group sending their own expeditions as well.

>>47211554
>Especially since going inside was dangerous for the Enterprise D, let alone any lesser ship.

Build a ship specifically to study it, of course.

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>>47211725
Equip it with metaphasic shields.

>>47210568
>hologram troops
The holographic miners bugged me, and this is no better. If you just need your shaped force fields to manipulate tools (or weapons) why bother with the illusion of a person? It makes sense with the EMH, because his job involved dealing with people. Floating surgical instruments and a disembodied voice asking where it hurts would probably be unnerving.

>>47209313
All things being equal, a D'deridex can beat a Galaxy in a fight regularly. Not as easily as their size would imply, but they can still do it.

>>47209313
The only thing the Romulan ships have going to them is Cloaking
The Fed Flagship is first a science Vessel But that doesn't mean it can't fuck shit up if it has too

>>47212029
The D'deridex-A or the D'deridex-B?
Because when Tomalok showed up with 3 D'deridex-A's against the Enterprise, wasn't it implied that 3 were needed in order to actually win?

>>47209630
>More technologically advanced
>durr wat is light bendin? uga buga 1,000 planets can't come up with stealth

>>47212203
Starfleet CAN come up with stealth.
In fact, they can make better cloaking systems than the Romulans or Klingons combined together could do in the past 100 years.

But they've been limited by the Treaty of Algernon to not develop any cloaking technology in exchange for the Romulans not starting shit that Starfleet will have to come kick their asses over.

>>47212203
The Federation had a treaty obligation against the use of cloaking technology. As we learn in the same episode where we find out about the phasing cloak. A technology superior to any Romulan cloaking device, illegally developed by a small group within Starfleet.

>>47212342
>A technology superior to any Romulan cloaking device, illegally developed by a small group within Starfleet.
A technology that Starfleet developed a working prototype for in a few years what the Romulans have been trying and failing to do for decades.

>>47211768
>metaphasic shields
>Voyager's future tech & Borg tech
>Phase cloak
>Transwarp beaming and Transwarp
>Picard Maneuver
>Red Matter

They may have the ability to fix the star or swap it out in another generation.

Does anyone remember a scene from during the Dominion War, where a Klingon and a Romulan are talking about the war?
The Romulan says that the Federation are getting pushed back by the Dominion, and the Klingon brushes it off that they have not yet seen the Federation fight for real yet, and reveal their true strength, then they both nervously look over at the human Starfleet officers.

Then there was the time early in DS9 when that Romulan liaison officer first boarded the Defiant, and realized that Starfleet had built a ship that had more power, more weapons, stronger shields, faster warp drive, more accurate sensors, in a package that's less than a quarter the size and mass of a D'deridex battleship?

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

Capitalistic markets are godly when it comes to making new shit like better tech and the Ferengi are pretty much a totally uncontrolled capitalistic market race

>>47209313
because fuck star trek

>>47212510
Wasn't that Marauder more of an exception rather than the rule, because of how Ferengi captains have almost complete freedom to customize their ships, and that one Ferengi happened to pour his profits into outfitting his ships with the best weapons available on the black market?

>>47212548
That one captain did do that but as a whole the Ferengi are not a race you mess with

>>47212203
Starfleet was barred from having or developing stealth when they made peace with the Klingons.

>>47212611
As a whole, no. They have access to the best weapons, strongest shields, and most horrific WMD's that latinum can buy when their collective profit-making interests are threatened.

Individual Ferengi, however, are a different matter.

>>47212613
Ah, slight correction, anon.
It was the Treaty of Algeron with the Romulans that prohibited the Federation and Starfleet from developing cloaks.

>>47212338
>>47212342
>w-we t-totally can into stealth w-w-ie j-just signed a t-t-treaty
Then you get cucked with your only combat specialized spaceship's stealth system being designed by Romulans and guarded by a Romulan officer so none of you monkeys try to learn how that magic tech works.

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Tell me Quark, if you're so clever, why isn't there a good Star Trek video game?

Didn't they work on a spaceship game where you can forward power to shields or phasers and such?

>>47212762
That'd be FTL: Faster Than Light.

>>47212703
>so none of you monkeys try to learn how that magic tech works.
Did you miss the part where Starfleet already made a cloaking device that was better, used less energy, and let ships pass through physical objects?

Starfleet Intelligence made the phase cloaking device in 47 years (assuming they started right when the treaty was signed) while the Romulans have been trying, and failing, for over a 100 years.

Starfleet proved they didn't need to go to the Romulans for a cloaking device (fuck, they could have just gotten one from the Klingons if they wanted).
Getting a Romulan one was intended to try to get the Romulans on board with a united Alpha Quadrant superpowers against the Dominion.

>>47212786
i wish FTL had a multiplayer. or a coop.

i want my idiot party to manage a ship.

>>47212786
Maybe with mods, but it's still not as satisfying. I wish it had co op where you can control 1-2 team members as necessary.

>>47212703
There are bound to be engineering difficulties in designing a cloaking device. Problems that are solvable if the Federation spends a few years developing cloaks. Problems that the Romulans would have already solved.

Any resources put into developing cloaks would have to come from other important projects. Getting the Romulans to provide a cloak doesn't require those resources.

Developing a cloak would take time the Federation didn't know if it had. A Romulan cloak was much quicker to acquire.

Then there is the matter of the treaty. Developing a cloak would annoy the Romulans. Getting them to provide the cloak keeps them happy.

I wish there was a good Star Trek pnp RPG. Holy shit it would be fun. You got tons of material to work with, endless exploring, infinite game modules, my god.

Imagine being Kirk and asking Spock for advice on how to contact the new species that only communicates in obscure logic problems.

Imagine being Sisco trying to figure out how to deal with the latest Cardassian issue.

Imagine paling around with Geordie and Data.

Now imagine doing this with your friends. It could be the most beautiful clusterfuck ever. Being the GM for it would be a shoggy esque nightmare but so glorious for them they would merrily run it.

/tg/ would love the game for the same reason they love playing all stupidly hard games and completing incredible challenges-- we like seeing how far we can get on hard mode, and often enough seeing how much further we can get than intended.

>>47212762
Star Trek Online?

>>47212762
Star Fleet Command is pretty good, if not for broken AI. Move power between systems, targeting specific functions with weapons and boarding parties, different shield angles, a variety of ships across multiple races, methodical combat.

>>47212703
There's literally an episode of TNG where a pissy little Federation research ship is outfitted with A phase cloak by a rogue Captain. The cloak is superior to that of the Romulans/Klingons but isn't adopted because the Federation isn't really a fan of war.

>>47212762
Bridge Commander was a good start. I only wish they had made a sequel with more depth.

>>47212762
Because you're an ignorant who's never played Klingon Academy.

>>47211218
>for obvious reasons
What are they? Because I'd watch the fuck out of Star Trek: Sphere

>>47212762
Artemis: Spaceship Bridge Simulator.

Actually, I'm surprised that game hasn't been brought up already, it's basically a /tg/ with some computer-y aids.

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>>47212915
There are a THOUSAND Star trek pnp systems, both official and fan made, e.g: PDF attached
Lurk moar.

>>47212871
>Problems that are solvable if the Federation spends a few years developing cloaks. Problems that the Romulans would have already solved.
Problems that the Federation solved with the Pegasus experiment.
Problems that the Romulans had spent decades on and couldn't solve.

>>47214523
Isn't there a thing where the Romulans have been fighting a war against some unknown foe since the Treaty of Algeron? Some pricks on the opoosite side of the empire?

>>47211278
>This was only ever a problem in DS9
Going to have to disagree with you on that one.

That Atlantis in SPAAAAACE hidden planet with the planetary cloaking device that Piccard and friends discover. It abduct Wesley and some other kids and regrettably returns them. It had awesome tech and they sent science teams there after Enterprise left. Never mentioned again.

Kirk and co. find an uninhabited planet with some hidden machinery that makes their thoughts come true. They use it for a holiday resort. Direct thought-to-hologram technology never mentioned again.

That long cylindrical planet killer that kirk disables. Never mentioned again.

Sub-space transporters. Can beam across light years. They modify their own transporters to do it once then forget about it.

Extra dimensional, unblockable transporters. Gives you cancer with repeated use. Never mentioned again.

Cloaking device that makes you impossible to touch so you could ghost through any problem. Never used or mentioned again.

That episode of TNG where they have a colony of humans that start aging rapidly. The colonists created a race of genetically modified humans that were physically better than humans in every measurable way, grew up quicker and had telepathy and telekinesis. And unlike Khan and the other old augments they seemed nice and stable. Nothing ever comes of this.

The Federation has access to Data's mother, Data's fathers notes and Data's uncle's downloaded memory as well as Data's disassembled brother to study. No new prosthetics, cybernetic enhancements or Datas.

Those are just the ones that instantly spring to mind.

>>47212510
>Capitalistic markets are godly when it comes to making new shit like better tech

Not really. It usually took long-term service contracts combined with free training to actually incite people into buying your newfangled shit.

I mean IRL.

>>47210180
Because most federation officers have no idea what they're doing when it comes to guns. The fourth amendment has long since been abandoned, and the federation trains its officers in engineering plot science rather than using weapons.

>>47212801
SS13.

>>47212762
Star Trek: Judgment Rites
Star Trek TNG: A Final Unity
Star Trek: Armada
Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force

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>>47212915
In addition to these and >>47214452 it would be pretty easy to do it yourself in a generic system like GURPS or Savage Worlds.

>>47214601
Obviously the things that are obvious tech upgrades, especially the ones they adapt to their uses even temporarily, should have been added into their repertoire and them not is kinda weird.

But the various planets and things that would take time to dissect and reverse engineer its understandable why theyre never mentioned again. Both in universe time and it wouldnt be very interesting to hear about soil analysis and atmospheric data.

The things that could be used may never be brought on board because the advantage they provide is niche or specialized for what, in the end, amounts to a research and exploration vessel. Or maybe they found some danger of the tech that needs to be fixed before becoming standard issue.

Thats the other thing, the time it takes to get the tech, reverse engineer it, get it approved, pass it through the chain to be evaluated for issuing, and then the actual process of issuing it can take some serious time.

Does it always make sense? No, not at all. Things like the sub space transporter would have been something that governments would have jumped all over and they wouldve installed them everywhere asap. But some things can have some slack cut for them. Like the thought to hologram thing. Realistically, that would just replace the holo deck (assuming they were able to mass produce it) but it probably just became a consumer product/luxury and not distributed through the military.

>>47214253
Becuase the central premise of Star Trek is, in fact, a trek to the stars. Deep Space Nine was a fun diversion for awhile, but overall the show is supposed to be about the exploration of the galaxy, not the exploration of a single part of it, even one as impressive as the Sphere.

Besides which, let's be honest, there's only a very limited number of stories you could do there, and a lot of them basically just end up being Land of the Lost but in the Star Trek universe, and without anyone actually being lost.

>>47214549
Nope.

>>47209313
>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation

Because they're more PRIMITIVE than the Federation. They can get the same specs but not the same economy.

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships

Because they're practical and are comfortable about their dick size, so they don't have to build large ships for the sake of it. Also, as warriors, they are practical. Ambushes are not considered dishonorable in war, nor is stealth. Tactics are perfectly acceptable. Think of it this way, you can sink a ship via ambush during wartime, but you won't be trialled for war crimes once the war is over. But if you gas and rape helpless civilians, then yes, you can stand trial.

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

They're willing to spend the money and resources for it.

>>47214601
The aging rapidly humans had accelerated aging BECAUSE the augments immune systems were killing all the normal people around them.

>>47211195
Even then, it's getting mechanics down that's more important than the plot. There's enough fan boys out there that any mechanical system will be adapted to any given era pretty quickly.

>>47212762
Star Trek Online is okay.

Then there are
Bridge Commander
Armada
Voyager Elite Force

>>47212414
>Transwarp beaming
>Red Matter
Trek science was always a little out to lunch. Both of these were pants on head retarded. Transwarp beaming was the worst example of nuTrek writers writing themselves into a corner.

>Hey, we need a way to get Kirk and Scotty on the Enterprise
>Oh, she went to warp hours ago
>Hey, I know! Transporters that can cross light years in seconds!
>Hey, not-Khan needs to get off Earth in a hurry! He uses those transporters to beam to Qo'nos!
>Why do we need starships again?
>How is deep space travel dangerous now, since we can beam the injured all the way to Earth for treatment, or evacuate crew via interstellar transporter?
>Hey, we can replenish redshirts at will now, just have Starfleet beam them to us, or a planet we're orbiting.

>>47215822
I'd watch it as a miniseries or webseries or something.

>>47216015
So the Humans V2.0 had one backwards compatibility problem with it. If that was fixed they would have made humanity unstoppable.

>>47209313

Because the Federation,was able to outproduce and out research the Romulans AND the Klingons at the same time, to such a point where they can throw a bunch of wasted space on their ships, not even designing them to full military spec, and still have their ships be fully the equal of other powers' front line warships. When they DO design a dedicated warship... well everyone else can just start lubing up their assholes then and there.

>>47212203

To be fair, cloaking isn't actually as useful as you're making it sound. IIRC you have to drop it anyways to fire, and it takes you a few seconds to raise your shields again, so if the enemy tactical officer is on the ball, thats a shot directly into your hull, probably devastating either your bridge or your engineering space. A cloaking system also isn't really something that fits with the Federation MO either, which is peaceful exploration.

>>47212801

Artemis. Or Pulsar: Lost Colony.

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>>47209313
>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships

Multiple smaller ships offer more strategic flexibility than one big ship. For example, if you have five Birds of Prey, you can send one to attack enemy supply lines, one to scout and have the other three attack an enemy force of equal or lower strength. If you have one Galaxy class ship, you have to choose between these options.
On the other hand, the Federation's main interest is scientific exploration and you basically want the biggest and best ships you can build to deal with strange cosmic phenomena and new species.

Starfleet vessels are so big and full of state of the art tech because they are basically the starship equivalent of large herbivores. They're big and imposing to dissuade the enemy from fighting them in the first place. Klingon ships are pack hunting carnivores.

>>47209313
It can't be overstated how ridiculous Federation tech is. Most regular members of Starfleet are probably better engineers than dedicated Romulans or Klingons. They are a civilization that has dedicated itself to science and the fact that each Federation culture has its own unique approach means that there is always a fresh perspective to draw upon. To most non-Federation cultures, Starfleet engineers are pretty much miracle workers.

>>47216381
Look, engineering major, this is why you have no friends.

>>47209313
>Transwarp beaming was the worst example of nuTrek writers writing themselves into a corner.

The Original Series, Season 2, Episode 26, "Assignment: Earth".

There are other examples in Trek lore, but that one springs immediately to mind. Long story short: it's hardly unprecedented.

>>47212762
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Ft7luIDn8

I'd just like to remind everyone that Jean-Luc Picard is a mass murderer by laziness.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeward_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

>>47212203
captain, I'm registering bait roughly 200 meters of the starboard bow

>>47218709
Hail them, and scan their cargo.

>>47218700
>Not upholding the prime directive
>Playing god.
You fool.

>>47218776
It's low grade bait captain, not much use for it besides salting food. Hypothetically if they ran a charge through it they could reduce it to weapons grade bait, but it would require a lot more than this to become viable.

>>47218806
>whole planet will die
>do nothing to prevent it
>refuse to even rescue some of them because it will ruin their culture
Spoiler Alert
They won't have a culture anymore. Because they'll all he dead.

>>47209313
>>47209313
>>47209313
Because Star Trek is shit

>>47218838
Ok, in three thousand years you'll have another theocracy starting a jihad because they want to conquer the Galaxy in the name of Pike Hard that will kill millions.

>>47218896
Alternatively we have the bearers of a new golden age of science and art, who are the key to the peace of hundreds of wars. Argument goes both ways. The only way that letting them die is moral is if you're trying to reduce competition towards your species, and the Federation isn't really into killing other species until they're hostile and refuse to be negotiated with.

>>47218896
>>47218957
Oh, and millions? That's a small scale war. One or two planet's at most before they got curbstomped.

>>47218700
I never understood why people forgive Picard for this, and yet crucify Archer and Phlox in Enterprise's "Dear Doctor" despite it being the EXACT SAME THING.

(actually it's objectively not even as bad, since the Valakians had two entire centuries to find a cure for their genetic defect)

The Prime Directive needs to be seriously re-thought. As originally quoted in TOS it forbade the interference in VIABLE pre-warp cultures. At some point between TOS and TNG the "viable" part seems to have been dropped.

>>47209313
Answering these as if all OP's statements are true.
>>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines and yet they are at best on par with the Federation
The Romulans use a black hole as an energy source.
That shit takes more space than the federation's hippie crystals.

>>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships
Personal honor.
"My small crew and I are victorious!" is more honor per Klingon than "Our massive warship easily crushes all opponents!"
Also, honor is only found if there is risk.

>>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best
Dat stolen tech!
Plus they got a really good deal from Crazy Hasan's used starships.

>>47216222
I don't know if it's J.J.'s vaunted "style" or just modern moviemaking in general, but contemporary pop sci-fi has lost whatever sense of scale it had entirely.

Star Wars 7 lost me entirely somewhere between Starkiller Base firing and people ACROSS THE GALAXY watching the beam blow up those planets the viewer was supposed to care about for some reason.

>>47219500
Both, but J. J. Abrams is a hack. I don't mind spectacular views, but make it with substance, will you?

And everyone wonders why I don't like the new movie.

>>47219125
Because Dear Doctor heavily relied upon a bullshit excuse that 'nature' had chosen them to go extinct and give the other race a better chance. And this was made the central point of the story and ham-fistedly argued to be a good thing.

Which as always in star trek, unless it's DS9, keep the spiritual/religious bullshit out of it. Because shit like this and the Voyager episode Sacred Ground are the result.

>>47219901
Also Brannon Braga once again demonstrated his complete lack of understand as to how evolution works, whilst simultaneously jerking off about his work on the story.

>>47212468
They should have kept that qt rommy officer onboard, they could have had all kinds of shit going on with her
>tfw when I looked up why she was taken out of the show and found out the writers literally just forgot she existed and the actress just moved on to other shows when they stopped calling her

>>47219901
>>47220064
Yeah. The "nature chooses this" thing pisses me off. Moreso because I have actually seen it in person. It's the second thing that they say in evolution, "there is no End Goal to evolution".

>>47220170
Wow. Just wow. It's bad enough that they get rid of you because they don't like you. But forgetting that you exist? That's almost heartless.

>>47212029
Yeah, iirc the Fed's phasers are more efficient, but the D-bird has more and heavier disruptors.

>>47214681
That's what happens when your empire becomes a peaceful utopia.

>>47212762
Star Trek Online is good for that, too bad they muddle it up with horrible ground missions.

>>47212025
Miners were emh repurposed.

>>47212762
There is, It's called Star Trek Birth of the Federation. It's an turn based strategy game similar to Civ or GalCiv from 1998 I believe. It's pretty good for it's time. You can play as either the Federation, the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassians or the Ferengi.

Great game. Literally played the shit out of it for decades. You got all the ships and minor races from the series. A Borg event will fuck your shit up.

Good times man, good times.

>>47212762
Star Trek: Judgement Rites is a good adventure game, making full use of the original cast as voice actors to do a bunch of adventures styled as episodes, rating you on how star trek you manage to be with your solutions.

Plus it gave Uhura more lines than the entire 3rd season of the show.

Starfleet Command II: Orion Pirates is also the pinnacle of the Star Fleet Battles based games, and a great high-detail ship combat game.

Turns out there's actually been a lot of good Star Trek games. Just not many in the past decade. But then there's also been very few made in the past decade, because Star Trek itself has been dead as a TV show and I really doubt people want to licence the movie universe with all the expense of that licence and very little to build off of.

>>47209313
>they are at best on par with the Federation

The Federation is much larger, has more people and resources, and is more technologically innovative.

>the Klingons

The Klingons prize personal combat, guile, and self sacrifice. Using small ships gets close to point 1, and guarantees points 3. Using cloaking devices goes under point 2, and makes their smaller vessels strategically viable.

>the Ferengi

The Ferengi build ships focused on trade the way the Federation builds them focused on exploration. Neither build straight warships, so them having rough parity is to be expected.

>>47210709
They actually had weapons that would amplify your emotions so much that you died. Logic and emotionless attitude was the only defense.

>>47212786
>>47213304
>>47214055
>>47214164
>>47214191
>>47214261
>>47214805
>>47216186
>>47218639

>no one mentioned star trek legacy

i'm sad

>>47212703

>being this ignorant of Star Trek

In TOS Kirk and co. STOLE a cloaking device from the Romulans. The Federation reverse engineered it. The only reason every Federation ship doesn't have a cloaking device is for political reasons. The Federation felt it was worth sacrificing a minor combat advantage for peace with the Romulans (who they had been at war with since 90 years BEFORE TOS).

>>47212762

What is Starfleet Command 1-Orion Pirates.
STO does it "okay" and the skill revamp has helped some.

>>47220949
Why would you do that though? They're software, not robots. You don't repurpose your old operating system when you upgrade to a new one.

>>47224512
It was the greatest theft of all time too

>Fly around in the neutral zone until the Romulans show up
>Beam aboard and literally rip out the cloaking device and beam back
>Steal their captain too
>Speed away knowing the Romulans can't keep up

>>47223651
Because Star Trek Online does the same style of gameplay better.

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>>47224720
>Steal their captain too
Kirk commanded this mission. The cloaking device was a secondary objective.

>>47210387

Uh, wouldn't that cause a frankly ludicrous amount of deaths in smaller children and babies?

Not to mention if people were doing important shit when they had their nervous system / neurons disrupted by a Ship-scale armament burning it's way through the atmosphere.

>>47225159
>>47224720
fun mini fact
That Romulan Commander was supposed to show up in TNG in the episode where the Romulans kidnap Troi and dress her up as one of them. The actress turned it down.

>>47210539

Thing is, Vulcans are very poor at making logical leaps.

Like teleportation, that was solely Human and the Vulcans thought it to be genuinely impossible without access to ludicrously advanced space-folding or intra-dimensional principles.

>>47225159
She was into Spock though so he got the romance plot.

>>47224512
Also: dropped from shooting due to expense/time, Star Trek VI was supposed to have a getting-the-gang-back-together sequence of the crew leaving what they had moved on to, and Scotty was working with a team pulling apart the Bird of Prey from Star Trek IV that they crashed conveniently near Starfleet headquarters. So there's another cloaking device to work from.

>>47214601
>Sub-space transporters. Can beam across light years. They modify their own transporters to do it once then forget about it.
They already said that the sub-space transports take more time, leave behind detectable residue, and compared to regular transporters is considered fairly dangerous.
Something like a 20% failure rate compared to 0.1%.
That's why they never use it again.

>>47225260
It doesn't surprise me that a race renowned for thinking things over would have problems with Star Trek's transporter technology.

>>47226162

It surprises me that a race that doesn't truly believe in anything spiritual would not have explored the deconstruction, transportation and reconstruction of organic data matrices when they already invented devices capable of replicating almost everything in creation outside some very particular resources for ambiguous reasons down to a molecular level from raw generic molecules.

>>47226238
Vulcans are like an entire race of actual autistic people, and not in the way 4chan uses the way I used the word "gay" to mean something lame or stupid.
They have seem to have great difficulty thinking non-literally and outside the box. The reason they were such an effective team with humans is because when you combine their logical nature and rentention rate of information and the human imagination you get CRAZY technological advancements.

Vulcans in general are highly educated and intelligent but sort of lack imagination thanks to how much emphasis their culture has on control and social conformity as a way to surpress how naturally psychotic they seemed to be WITHOUT said social pressure.

>>47226238
Replicators came well after transporters though.

>>47225260
But much like most of what came from Enterprise, it's attempts at explaining things would have been better if they'd not happened since they couldn't have them done by writers that actually were good. Braga in particular was notable for being the guy who didn't really care about the original series, and yet was heavily involved with both shows (Voy, Enterprise) that really would have benefited from someone who gave a fuck about what came before/episodic space adventures far away from home.

>>47226382

I thought autism was a genuine mental disability where the person in question truly cannot pick up on normal social cues and has a genuinely hard time relating to others? Not lacking in empathy, just lacking in ability to process and respond to the social and emotional contexts?

Huh, guess Vulcans are autistic then.

>>47226422

I thought Vulcans had replicators before they made contact with Humanity? It was one of the main turning points that allowed StarTrek humanity to become as close to a true post-scarcity society as it was able.

>>47226487
Replicators and post-scarcity didn't show up until... probably late 23rd/early 24th century.

Even in the original series they were not using replicators, but fast service machines that build food out of stock materials and move it around the ship, hence it being shit like coloured cubeds and soup unless a chef was involved. Or just machine shops for fabrication of hand phasers and such.

What started off humanity to getting gud was finding out the galaxy was full of other people (possibly including hot alien babes), and places to live that were less irradiated and war-torn than Earth, and the ability to get there without resorting to becoming a meat popsicle for a few decades that comprised the initial ventures.

Remember the time Worf got bodied by a blue plastic barrel?

>>47227417

Yes, he's not pretty enough to have a female Q bend the laws of gravity to push it out of the way like she did for Riker.

>>47220176
But this is certifiably false in Trek lore, however, as demonstrated by the TNG episode "The Chase", among other places.

The Trek world is not our world.

>>47214681
Fourth amendment? Of what constitution? Because the US 4th protects against unreasonable/warrantless search and seizure.

>>47225643
It also bypasses shields. Which would make it an extremely effective weapon. Who cares if 1 out of 5 warheads don't make it, if the rest of them are detonating inside Jem'hadar warships?

>>47219125
>The Prime Directive needs to be seriously re-thought. As originally quoted in TOS it forbade the interference in VIABLE pre-warp cultures. At some point between TOS and TNG the "viable" part seems to have been dropped.
I completely agree. It turned from an anti-colonialism rule into a weird dogma about not interfering in destiny.

"Dear Doctor" is just the worst example of the Prime Directive gone wrong. Made all the more galling because it takes place before the Prime Directive existed.

>>47212203
>Light bending is all we really need, gais!

Lol, true stealth in space would mean covering your infrared tracks, making your heat signatures absolutely undetectable by even the most sensitive of detection equipment, completely negating ANY gravitational pull the mass of your ship might even POSSIBLY exert, AND you'd need to encrypt your own communications equipment so you don't accidentally send the enemy your own maneuvers and tactical plans.

This is why aliens can't into stealth. Because stealth is goddamn HARD.

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>>47209313
Klingons do build massive warships. They also put cloaking devices on them. They put cloaking devices on everything, even civilian ships.

>>47228880
Lets be honest, if you had cloaking devices and were allowed to use them, you' be hard pressed to find a reason to not put them on every ship you've got. It's the ultimate method of ensuring you can just bypass all the alien bullshit out there that the Fed ships regularly run into.

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>>47229800
They rarely get used to full effect, though. The only time I remember was when the Romulans snuck a fleet into Dominion space to glass the Founder homeworld. Didn't work out for them, but at least they tried.

>>47209313
>>>/tv/

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>>47220977
My negro

>>47211218
They could run it like Stargate SG1.

>>47210823
Here we go again...

>>47211233
Well they still have big Battlecruisers no?

>>47211332
What do you mean by hat ammont 250 millions planets?

>>47218117

This. I think a Vorta flat out calls Starfleet Engineers "Wizards" once.

>>47229800
I'm not sure whether this was just in the games but I distinctly remember a massive Tachyon detection Grid being set up between the Federation and the Klingon Empire in Klingon Academy.

It would make sense for the Federation to implement that against the Romulans too.

The real answer to virtually every single question raised on this thread is either "budget" or "careless/incompetent writers" (which mostly originates from issues of budget).

>>47232661

They do. That Klingon civil war episode in TNG, they stop the Romulans from ferrying supplies to the Duras sisters by a big tachyon grid.

Romulans; a proper imperial power given to displays of power and intimidation on it's borders to keep them secure. Big ships with lots of bombast accomplish that.

Klingons; they do have big ships, and lots of them. They just realise better than anyone the value of the smaller ships. While the Romulans are showing off their cocks with their space Tigers the Klingons are causing havoc with their space T34s.

The Dominion also know the value of a horde of smaller warships.

Ferengi; in a galaxy that has the Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Nausicans and other space niggers who'll steal your shit if they can you have no choice but to spend the latimum and up-arm and up-armour the shit out of your mechant fleet.

>>47219500
Ironically Abrams is very good at scale, and like to play with it in his movie, but he probably just know nothing about space, like most grandpas Hollywood directors.

>>47224547
Did they fixed ground combat and general ships and weapons balance?

>>47228266
>"Dear Doctor" is just the worst example of the Prime Directive gone wrong.

No, the worst is TNG, "Homeward", wherein Picard sits idly by while millions of people die and it's only the act of Worf's adopted brother Nikolai Rozhenko that any of the people of the planet are saved.

Archer and Phlox may have left a people to their genetic defect, but it was also outright stated that the Valakians still had 200 years of life left in them, and they were bending their entire society to finding a solution to the genetic defect. It was a dick move on Archer and Phlox's part, but there's no reason to think that the Valakians won't develop a cure on their own - they've got plenty of time to do it.

Whereas Picard just watched millions of people die and did nothing. While he didn't have the technology or time to save all of them, he did have the technology and time to save some of them - hundreds or even thousands more than were saved by Nikolai.

>>47224712
What emit them is still hardware.

>>47214549
Ambiguous. They were "otherwise occupied" for the last few decades before TNG, though whether that was an internal civil war or a battle with someone on their Delta Quadrant border or what is never expanded on, not even in any beta canon that I've seen.

>>47225258
It was a Troi episode. Anyone would have turned it down.

>>47219500
Most visual science fiction is actually absurd in the other direction. Space fights in Star Trek are regularly shown to happen in ranges of hundreds of meters. This would be spitting range for modern day tanks, much less ships, much less airplanes, much less anything in space. At least Strazcynzki or however you spell the Bab 5 guy's name had the foresight to cut the scenes so he could claim they're "actually" thousands of kilometers apart.

>>47219265
>Crazy Hasan's used starships.

This needs to be a thing. Why is this not a thing?

>>47233585
You know, it would have to be someone from Starfleet. He's a little off, the ships need a few dings and systems replaced, but he's honest with you. Trust is the true currency in the galaxy.

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>>47226238
>a race that doesn't truly believe in anything spiritual

>>47233697
Is it spiritual if it works (thus there's a scientific basis)?

>>47225226
Yes. It's another instance of writers not thinking shit through.

But even then in the long term more deaths were averted by the intervention of Kirk than were caused.

he society was in a state of anarchy and collapse when they arrived and it was healing when they left.

Also what is Prime Directive?

>>47209313
Romulans: The UFP is a big tent with technology from different civilizations. Their devotion to science also gives them an upper hand.

Klingons: Klingon honor =/= Human honor. Also, predators use stealth.

Ferengi: Money can get you pretty far in life.

>>47233712

If anything having empirical evidence of the reality and importance of the soul, as a distinct part of the self separate from mind or body, should make them even LESS disposed to
> the deconstruction, transportation and reconstruction of organic data matrices

>>47233751
But their evidence shows that this transportation doesn't harm the soul. They have the means to examine this. Spock has teleported numerous times yet still had a soul to transfer just fine.

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>>47233158
>Ferengi; in a galaxy that has the Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Nausicans and other space niggers who'll steal your shit if they can you have no choice but to spend the latimum and up-arm and up-armour the shit out of your mechant fleet.

This guy gets it.

>>47233776
By the time of TOS, sure, they've obviously tested it enough to understand that the Katra survives transport. I'm just pointing out that >>47226238 has clearly never actually watched any TOS or movies, and that it's entirely reasonable to suppose that not knowing that it would preserve the Katra was a barrier to Vulcans developing transporters in the first place.

>>47227551
Oops. 2nd.

>>47233806
Wasn't there also some beta canon that Grand Nagus Zek had been aggressively arming the Ferengi merchants and privateers on the edges of their territory in preparation for first contact with the Federation, who the Ferengi had enough second-hand intel on to consider them dangerously insane?

Just a little fan masturbation here.

You know what would be great? If a new Trek series were to come out set in the year 2430 or something, and the Sovereign class has taken up the old sentimental place the Excelsior once did. The Feds and Klingons are running around with whole new ship classes, and everyone's having a good time. But when the first Romulan episode happens, and the new "secret project" warbirds uncloak themselves, they turn out to just be refit, repainted D'deridex's with more fucking weapons. The new Enterprise captain reacts with shock and a little derision, until the Romulans knock out his front shields in one swipe of their comedically overwhelming forward disruptor array.

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>>47233860

I don't know. But I do remember small bits and pieces from DS9 where the Quark is telling someone else that he thinks the Federation (and humans most especially) are nice people but under that niceness there's a well-chained beast waiting to get out and the war against the Dominion is going to bring it out if the Dominion kept pushing.

Quark basically thought the Federation was the Trek version of a US school shooter on the brink of snapping.

Remember that time an alien race tried to go all Judge Dredd on Wesley?

>>47233923
As shitty as that episode (and season) was, I wish they had

>>47209313
>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation

The Feds had better technology.

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships

They did have big warships too, did you even watch the show?

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

Why not? They're greedy, not stupid or technically incompetent.

>>47226382
If Romulans are what happens when Vulkans let themselves go hog wild, then they don't really seem that bad. I keep hearing in the show that Roms are "passionate" people, but they seem about the same as humans, if not a little more ambitious and ruthless (which as we know is more the fault of Federation culture than anything else).

>>47233916
He was talking to Nog in the episode where they had to protect a communications tower from enemy soldiers.

>>47234017
Vulcans were all about going full hedonism and violence at all times.

Modern Vulcans dealt with this by repressing everything all the time.

Romulans put all that directionless drive into being backstabbing, xenophobic Romulan supremacists.

Neither of them are as their ancestors were.

>>47234017
I don't think Romulans are really Vulcans gone wild. They just have a different way of dealing with it through what appears to be a very rigid, oppressive society with a terrifying secret police force and imperialistic tendencies focusing their destructive efforts outwards rather than inwards.

>>47234030

That's the one. And the Federation troops were collecting ketracel white dispensers as trophies and Quark was freaking out over that.

He'd have shit his lung out his mouth when they finally got around to taking teeth or ears as trophies.

>>47234101
>>47234106
I know this is from a human perspective, but if those are the options then this species sounds fucked.

>>47219500
That planet was where the Parliament was of the old republic.

>>47234186
No. It wasn't Coruscant.

It wasn't Coruscant because it didn't look like Coruscant. It wasn't Coruscant because Coruscant is the most well protected planet of the galaxy. It wasn't Coruscant because Coruscant is so important, and relatively well known, it would have had a 'CORUSCANT - New Republic Capital' subtitle. It wasn't Coruscant because if Coruscant was to be destroyed, it would have tremendous repercussions in the entire galaxy.

Certainly, in this scene, J.J wanted to imply that this planet was an important planet for the new republic, though without naming it, without explaining what it is, and why we should care about this destruction. Story for what? 80 IQ and clinically retarded children?

For all we know, and all we can speculate, the blown up planet was some backwater third rate new republic planet nobody really cares about.

>>47212762
Artemis is the end-all be-all of star trek simulators.

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>>47234244
And yes, I am salty.

There is so much Star Wars lore, so many planets to be destroyed, so many things to do. You want to blow up Coruscant? Well, by all mean, do that. You want to explore the repercussions of cutting the head of the galactic civilization? Fine for me. You want to show how awesome is this new menace by blowing up a more secondary important planet? Well, there's Mon Calamari, Corellia, Kashyyyk, so many choices. Hell, just create your own.

J.J has perfect B-movie thinking.

>'I NEED SOME STUFF BLOWING UP, YEP, WILL BLOW UP A PLANET!'
>But, which planet?
>YOU THINK I FUCKING CARE?
>At least give it a name.
>YOU THINK THAT'S MY JOB? IT'S A PLANET. PEOPLE WILL DIE. IT WILL EXPLODE AND EVERYTHING.

Even Aldebaran was given a name and a light backstory in the first fucking Star Wars.

>>47234244
Much like how Janku was Not-Tatoonine.

While I forget the name at the moment, we do have official confirmation that it's not Coruscant, though, so you're 100% right.

>>47209313
>>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation

Because the Romulans were behind in the arms race, their earliest ships were nigger rigged Klingon vessels and that ship isn't any larger than the Enterprise, they mass around the same.

>>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships

Because their honour is the honour of the afghan father who strangles his daughter for refusing to marry the husband they picked. Worf's idea of them as being utterly honorable and fair was klingabooism.

>>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

They're hugely wealthy, no one likes them and Ferenginar doesn't seem to have a formal navy to protect its traders. Makes sense to me.

>>47233916
>Quark basically thought the Federation was the Trek version of a US school shooter on the brink of snapping.

His reaction was from reading Earth history and learning about things like the Holocaust, one of the first times they show this side of Quark they have him mention that for all humans look down on Ferengi at least the Ferengi never had concentration camps.

>>47234625
>His reaction was from reading Earth history and learning about things like the Holocaust, one of the first times they show this side of Quark they have him mention that for all humans look down on Ferengi at least the Ferengi never had concentration camps.

The uppity bastard.

>>47234166
I dunno, the Romulans are generally in the running for the most powerful civilization in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants. They've never quite taken the #1 spot but they've frequently been #2, while the Klingons and Federation tend to be the ones duking out out for #1 but occasionally the Klingons screw themselves over so much that they drop down to #3 or even a bit lower.

The Romulans seem to be doing fine for themselves.

In fact if anything it seems like the Vulcans were the ones who were fucked without the moderating influence of Humanity eventually coming into play, as we see in Enterprise.

>>47234244
Also it wasn't Coruscant because various sources have said outright that it's not Coruscant.

>>47234403
It is named in the movie. It was the Hosnian system; it's mentioned a few times. However it's not said in the moment probably because JJ wanted people to *think* that it was Coruscant, at least for a moment.

>>47234473
>Aldebaran
>Janku

I never understood how people can't spell things correctly. This happens with Drizzt's name, too. People will spell it "Driz'zt" or "Drizz't", adding in an apostrophe that isn't there. It's the easiest damn thing in the world to check your spelling, people.

It's Alderaan, and Jakku.

Also, except for being a backwater desert planet, Jakku doesn't seem to have much in common with Tattooine. That's like calling the Australian Outback the "not-Sahara".

>>47234936
NORMAL words aren't hard to spellcheck. Made up names? A lot harder, and frankly not worth the effort. You knew exactly what I meant anyway.

>>47234988
>NORMAL words aren't hard to spellcheck.

Neither is Alderaan or Jakku.

Google: "planet destroyed by Death Star".
Google: "Force Awakens desert planet"

Easy.

>>47234988 >>47235129
Oh, additionally, it bothered me that your spelling of them was completely different from how they're pronounced in the movies.

Like, I probably wouldn't have batted an eyelash at "Aldaran" or "Jakoo". But when people start adding letters that actually changes the pronunciation, I get annoyed.

>>47235129
Eat my asshole. You knew what I was saying. For normal words? I right click, done. Fuck off.

>>47234625
>Ferengi didn't have concentration camps
Well, obviously. When everybody's Jews, no one is.

>>47234625
Do you remember if there was a similar scene involving a Romulan and a Klingon?
I vaguely remember it, but maybe I'm remembering something that never happened.

>>47232449
"One of your famed Starfleet Engineers that can turn rocks into replicators."

>>47226382

> The reason they were such an effective team with humans is because when you combine their logical nature and rentention rate of information and the human imagination you get CRAZY technological advancements.

"Lets find out what happens if you shoot this new subspace particle with lasers."

"That seems extremely illogical. What do you hope to gain from such an experiment?"

"...Experiment? Sure, I guess you can write down the results after. I just like using the laser on things."

[and much scientific progress was had]

>>47235219
Isolated prison colony. Romulan guards and Klingon POWs. Both went native due to isolation and got on really well till Worf turned up and caused trouble. Hybrid children.

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>>47235254

"You're been misinformed. I don't need rocks."

> Vorta is amused, then confused and mildly frightened once he realizes that he can't tell if Miles is joking or not.

I always like how Miles was a small fish on the Enterprise, but that still qualifies him to be considered a goddamn miracle worker literally anywhere else.

>>47233454
It was probably the only Troi episode, mainly because she finally loses her shit and starts threatening to murder everyone.

>>47235769
The part that everyone else in the Alpha Quadrant talks a big game but they're all secretly afraid of when the humans get pushed to the point where they unleash their chained genocidal monsters within?

>>47235818
Really, it was just evidence that Starfleet was squandering massive amounts of "human" resources on its flagship, having incredibly talented professionals do jobs far below their qualifications just so they could say the ship had all the 'best of the best'.

>>47235899

To be fair, there were legitimately times when the presence of Miles O'brien was the dividing line between success and disaster. He might be more consistently useful in a head position elsewhere, like in DS9, but the whole job of the Enterprise is to be the 100% best possible solution to the unknown, really hard problems.

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>>47235899
>Veteran of the Cardi war
>General over all miracle worker like any typical chief engineer
>Relegated to pushing the transport button
>Tricked into marrying a shrill Japanese hate ghost haunting the arboretum by one of his friends

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What now Klingons? Behold your doom!

>>47235899
>Chief engineer material
>Stuck in the transporter room for 8 hours every day
Why doesn't Starfleet allow telecommuting?

>>47236032
Keiko wasn't THAT bad.

The problem is, on DS9, the writers only actually bothered to write her into a scene, about 70-80% of the time, to show 'Oh, the O'Briens are having marital issues again!'.

And since she's just GONE the rest of that time, aside from that 20-30%, while Miles is in virtually every episode, we almost ONLY ever saw her when they were arguing about something, or having a problem, making her the character that only shows up to bring down Miles (who has enough troubles on his own, thanks to the 'O'Brien must suffer' semi-annual episodes).

Even with that situation, I'd say they had the most mature and realistic adult relationship in any of the series, but really, it does come down to the writers badly misusing her, probably largely without thinking through how the audience would react when seemingly her only purpose was to be the shrill nagging wife, despite their arguments being literally months or even years apart in-show, and seemingly very happy otherwise.

>>47236137
>Keiko, not bad
>Gets possessed by Kosst Amojan and no one can tell the difference until she just outs and says it

>>47236294
To be fair, that was the one Kosst Amojan that always wanted to go to acting school and could actually hold back on the glowing eyes and reverb voice bit

This thread made me watch DS9.

>>47237438
Was it your first time watching it?
The first few seasons are generally regarded as being bad because they were still transitioning from episodic series to a more permanent location-based series.
The Dominion War is where things get good, as the Federation gets pushed back and the humans are forced to go looking in their closet for that good old-fashioned ultra-violence and genocide that'd make even the most bloodthirsty of Klingons pause.

>>47237438
Now watch Babylon 5.

>>47209313
Plot contrivance.

There, that was less than sixty seconds. Do I like, win something?

>>47237493
Yeah I've watched all of TNG and some of the original movies, but I never touched DS9 before now.
I'll try to be patient with the first few seasons. I enjoyed TNG a lot, and I just want more.

>>47232410
Pretty much any oddball inconsistency from TNG, DS9, and VOY can be chalked up to the showrunners being a bunch of cheap niggers that kept reusing props from the TOS movies. The Constitution refit's bridge became the TNG battle bridge. Its Engineering became Voyager's after some cosmetic refurbs. The continued existence of Miranda and Excelsior class ships and Klingon Birds of Prey are 100% due to "let's just reuse this shit from the movies."

>>47233538
B5 had a bunch of cool stuff, like Starfuries.

>>47233202

To some extent. The also split the Ground and Space traits, so that's helped a lot. There's also now a Commando specialization that you can spend skill points on post level 50 that drastically increases your survivability.

In general, the skill revamp has increased everyones ability to dish out damage and to survive it. If you're considering getting back into the game, the STOBuilds subreddit is surprisingly helpful.

>>47233714

>What is the Prime Directive?

Originally? A guideline for captains to use their best judgement in situations where they were far from home, couldn't call Starfleet Command for advice, and weren't in possession of all the facts.

By TNG? It has become a dogmatic excuse to pontificate to anyone who thinks that interfering might have a positive outcome. It's also a shield for cowards to hide behind because they might "get it wrong" and make things worse.

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>>47236050
Ah, good. The soft-bellied children and the knife-eared shitheels are working together. Expect one side to be dead and the other too weak to fight within a month.

>>47233892
>and the Sovereign class has taken up the old sentimental place the Excelsior once did

I thought the Excelsior was a top of the line unit, sort of like a proto-Galaxy.

>>47215822
>Deep Space Nine was a fun diversion for awhile, but overall the show is supposed to be about the exploration of the galaxy
It seems like a large chunk of many Star Trek series revolve around fun diversions. Whether it's finding a planet that's just like Earth but in Medieval times, or Ancient Rome, or the Wild West, etc. And if it isn't a planet that mimics Earth, it's holodeck episodes.

Oddly enough, DS9 with its heavy emphasis on space politics often reminded of the vast nature of the setting than many other series barring perhaps Voyager.

>>47238783
Well, yeah, it was.

Like, fifty years before TNG.

>>47238971
DS9 Probably had more exploration stories in it than TNG, which especially after season 1 was largely just it running around fixing problems, not exploring.

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>>47209313
>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation
The Feds area way more advanced than the Rom-Coms

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships
There is no difference between what is necessary and what is honorable, at least to them.

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best
pic related

>>47233916
Velvet glove, mailed fist, am I right?

>>47209313
Strong economies are OP
The klingons are sneaky tricky space russians, honor came after the stealth stuff was already built
The ferengi are also rich

>>47234625
>>47235219
>>47235769

So basically everyone in Alpha is just waiting for the Earth folk to snap?

>>47240862
Not just the Humans, there's also the Andorians and probably a whole bunch of other peoples who have had their own multiple world wars&limited nuclear wars before they got where they are.

>>47212786
>random chance the game
plz

>>47240951
You mean like Poker?

>>47233916
>>47234030
>>47234139
>>47234625
>>47240862

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D2SHNqkjbY

Berman and Braga briefly flirted with just what a serious wartime Federation looks like. But it's fucking scary, especially when you look at it from the perspective of an outsider who doesn't have to deus ex plot everything back into a tiny box when the credits roll. By the end of the Dominion War, they have ONGOING WAR CRIMES, and only then do they bother to discuss the merits. Then we have Admiral Ahab Janeway, who breaks the temporal Prime Directive to commit omnicide. Starfleet responds by giving her command and control over the training of all cadets.

The Federation are obnoxious with their constant meddling and sanctimonious attitude. But it beats the shit out of war.

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>>47209313
>>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation
Cloak technology takes a lot of space yo.

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships
Klingons have BIG SHIPS, The ones you see in TNG are ships belonging to small clans and pirates. It's like saying why the US Navy has such small boats when all you fight is their marine infantry landing boats.

>>47233209
A handful of Boraalans were saved. Probably not enough to be a viable population. Their next few generations will each be smaller and more inbred than the last, until they eventually die out anyway.

Archer could have easily saved the entire Valakian species, and didn't even have the Prime Directive as an excuse for why he didn't.

>>47242757
If they saved the Valakians, they would have to deal with the Valakians. By letting "nature decide", they were removing a potential competitor from the galactic scene.

>>47242702
No mention of Borg pussy
I am disappoint.

>>47242702
>Tamarian pussy
The beast at Tanagra.

>>47242890
Phlox thought that letting the Valakians die out would allow the Menk to surpass them in the long run. That was his main argument for not giving them the cure.

>>47241230
Berman and Braga had very little to do with DS9. Braga especially so. Which is why it was good.

Where as Janeway was a case of wanting a badass stronk female captain but not knowing how to allow her to be badass without seeming like a crazy fucker, and lacking the balls to write her as actually crazy either.

>>47243053
Given the Valakians didn't eradicate the lesser species in the way that happened with humans and the differing branches, and still treated the Menk better than humans have traditionally treated other humans they deem lesser, the doctor should have been giving them a bloody medal for their empathy and kindness as a species. Or sponsoring a giant fucking monument even.

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>>47242702
Deltan pussy
Her understanding of sex is so far beyond yours that she's basically committing statutory rape.

This is canon.

>>47243037
Sokath, his pants missing, his spear ready.

>>47225260
Except the Vulcan were right. The federation beaming is not true teleportation.

>>47240905
>before they got where they are.
True. But it's been said that while other races are war-like, and the Klingons love war, and even war for war's sake, no one ever went to the pure atrocity for atrocity's sake that WW2, WW3, and Eugenics Wars humanity went to.

And if they did go to war now, the humans have all of this planet-busting tech that they use for peaceful purposes that they can repurpose into weapons.

>>47241652
>Cloak technology takes a lot of space yo.
Case in point: Yes, the Romulans need all that space for the cloaking device and its auxiliary systems so that the entire ship can be properly cloaked.
Starfleet made a cloaking device that's small enough for a single person to carry easily and can be plugged into a standard EPS conduit on a Federation ship, that can cloak an entire Galaxy-class ship AND all of its transmission from an actively scanning D'deridex.

>>47240905
I wonder if the Andorians became as placid as the humans have by the 2370's. I wonder how Quark or whoever would react to seeing one of the blue antenna people start going all Shran on enemy soldiers with an ice-pick knife.

>>47245555
I was quite sad we never got to see that happen in DS9.

After the Breen bombed Earth Star Fleet should have gone full war path insane. The Vulcans as the only people who knew Jack shit about pre-warp humanity should have been freaking out about it to the amusement of everyone else. Then the amusement turns to horror.

mutogenic plagues, subspace transporters, relativistic rail guns, psychic warfare, phased cloaking devices on every ship and every other wrong application of their supertech.

Dominion and allies would be like lulz we bombed your home world. What you gonna do about it faggot? Wait what? What? Oh shit fuck shit fuck. Sorry, we're sorry please stop OH SHIT FUCK PLEASE STOP OH GOD WE'RE SO SORRY OH FUCK NO!

And when the humans have stopped anally violating the Dominion they quietly and calmly disarm their empire and return to being the race of happy engineers and curious explorers everyone knew them as.

And for the next 10 generations nobody tries to fuck with humanity.

>>47245796
>every other wrong application of their supertech.
Don't forget using holo-emitters and the Federation databases to recreate legions of soldiers from every time period and every race, up to and including the Borg.

>>47245796
>I was quite sad we never got to see that happen in DS9.
We got close, in "For the Uniform", when the Maquis drove Sisko to detonate trilithium resin (a substance toxic to humans) in the atmosphere of an inhabited planet. And he wasn't going to stop.
https://youtu.be/XGcAbI-4_io

God, I wish he hadn't stopped.

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>>47245928
I remember that. I was waiting for Sisko to reveal that it all was just a bluff, that the torpedos were holograms or that the substance was just providing false scanner readings and was actually harmless, because that's what always happens in Star Trek.

Not that time.

>>47245928
I'd follow that man to hell and back. Damn.

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>>47219500
Nobody in science fiction has any sense of scale.

No, the obscure 'hard' sci-fi writer someone is inevitably bound to bring up is not immune to this rule.

>>47209313
Klingons have a very slav/middle east sense of honor. In that, you declare something, and if nobody can force you to say otherwise, it's correct.

If you use stealth to murder an orphan transport and declare that you heroically defeated a mighty enemy warship, and somebody calls you on it, you kill them. Then the next person. Eventually nobody says it's different than your own story. That's honor.

That's of course, not how they talk about honor, but it's how they act. That's why Worf has such a hard time being a Klingon. He only knew the stories and didn't grow up with them. They're always shocked at how actually honourable he is.

Tacheons.

>>47245740
Nah. I don't think the Andorians ever got as close to losing everything as we did. And I always assumed that they were more insular than most other Fed species, and were maybe able to retain some of there warrior spirit.

>>47245928
He DIDN'T stop.

He totally did it.

>>47246089
Y'know, I tend to dump on Worf a lot on account of all the stupid shit he does, but honestly if I had to choose between him and your average actual Klingon to watch my back, I'd go with the one who gives a damn about actual honor.

>>47246089
Nah, they wouldn't lie about their accomplishment.

They'd brag about blowing up the enemy orphan transport.

Because that was a victory, and victory is honor.

As long as it was an enemy target or on the battlefield, it's fair game.

They might embellish a little, maybe say the orphan ship put up a glorious struggle, but they wouldn't turn one sort of foe into another entirely and say they were an enemy battleship.

>>47245928
Shit like that is why I'm still shocked he didn't straight-up kill the crazy amish cult bitch from "Paradise".

>>47246205
Too early in the show, and that episode was fucked up in a bunch of stupid ways, honestly.

>>47246176
No, I meant concerning the next Maquis colony.
I wish that he hadn't accepted the surrender, and instead had just filled every single dark hole that the Maquis tried to hide in with trilithium resin.
And because it's the DMZ and what's Central Command going to do, I wish he would then go ahead with throwing around cobalt diselenide warheads at every Cardassian colony as well.

>>47246226
Eh, he was borderline, but he wasn't a raving loonie (ha).

The enemy surrenders, you've won, you've accomplished your mission. He destroyed the Maquis that day, as an organization.

Going around trashing colonies he didn't need to would just be the actions of a mad dog.

>>47246251
>Going around trashing colonies he didn't need to would just be the actions of a mad dog.
Yeah, Janeway would've nuked the shit out of those colonies.

>>47246273
Yeah, but that's Janeway.

Sisko's intense, but he isn't actually crazy.

(occasional prophets brain problems and Benny episodes aside)

>>47246251
Nah, the Maquis were still around.
They might have lost Eddington but their entire terrorist infrastructure, cell network, and system of weapon depots were still in the Badlands.

What actually killed the Maquis was the Cardassian-Dominion alliance that saw hundreds of Jem'Hadar attack ships flood into the DMZ and simply slaughter every non-Cardassian colony.

>>47246328
The Maquis didn't accomplish shit from the moment they lose Eddington onward.

Which is pretty sad, given he was just one tactical officer, and they were supposedly flush with ex-starfleet officers.

>>47246346
>The Maquis didn't accomplish shit from the moment they lose Eddington onward.
They had one month before a flood of Dominion ships came charging through the Wormhole and started massacring them in the DMZ.

They had no time to set up anything before the most they could do was run.

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>>47246273
>Janeway starts nuking Maquis colonies
>Eddington hails the ship
"Okay Inspector Janevert, your nefarious plan worked! I surrender."
"What plan?"

>>47246362
True enough.

Still, Sisko was already seriously pushing his orders with what he did to get Eddington to surrender. It wouldn't surprise me if Starfleet still hadn't decided how to proceed next on the DMZ problem by the time the Dominion showed up and roflstomped the Maquis (mostly) out of existence.

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>>47245740
>implying the Andorians ever stopped Shraning people with ice pick knives

>>47246226
Wouldn't going on a pointless rampage through the DMZ be a betrayal of his duty to Starfleet? Exactly the thing he was pissed at Eddington for.

>>47246464
Those are not Federation citizens.
They renounced their loyalty to Starfleet and the Federation.
Now, they are an intolerable threat to the safety and security of the Federation and Starfleet.
The Maquis could no longer be handled with the kid gloves that Starfleet treats everyone with.
They needed to be neutralized as a threat.

>>47246555
It's not his place to make that call without orders. It would be insubordination at the very least.

Besides the Maquis themselves weren't a threat to the Federation. The threat was that they risked provoking another war with the Cardassians. So poisoning the Cardassian colonies as well would basically make Sisko just as bad as the Maquis as far as Starfleet was concerned.

>>47243391
>"Sex with a Deltan woman is like nirvana. After that no man can be satisfied with anyone else. The Deltan woman is so sophisticated sexually that any contact with a Human man would drive him insane. It's wonderful."

>>47246061
Stanislaw Lem and Peter Watts are not obscure.

>>47246293
>implying ds9 isn't benny's fantasy

>>47246555
Literally Borg speech. Eat a dick you crazy nigger. Go play Jesus to the fucking mirror universe.

>>47240905
I lost all respect to the Andorians when I saw the technical specifications of their ships and found out none of them carried torpedoes. At all.

So much for being a fucking warrior race. Romulans and Klingons do it better.

>>47247475
Get a load of this Tellarite.

1: Because the standard ship for Romulans is a warship, while the standard ship for the Federation is an exploration vessel.
2: Because technology=power, and stealth is technology, and grants advantage, as does smaller targets and speed. Honor is among allies and friends, and not necessarily allowed to the enemy.
3. Traders get access to a much wider varity of technology, and unlike the Federation, they have no Prime Directive to prevent them from making contat with alien civilizatiosn that might have secrets or certain anomolous or specific alien tech that improves on higher tech even if their civilization is of a lowe rstandard of technology in general in general.

In other words, cheaters win.

>>47245796

This!

>>47245796
The problem is that you don't calmly disarm and go back to the way things used to be after going that far. You've crossed a line and taken every other Fed race with you. The entire prevailing mood has shifted from liberal pacifist to warlord conservative. You kickstarted an industrial war machine that isn't about to just go back to sleep. This is the new norm, at least for awhile. You've essentially become a super Romulan Empire. Sure you could go back eventually but it'll take a few generations

>>47246205
Killing her would have made her a martyr. He needed to show just how fucking twisted she was to her followers and if rescue never came for them, they probably would have killed her for him.

>>47250321
There is a question of whether the humans in Starfleet going full WW3 would be enough to cause the Organians to interfere again, like they did in the Federation-Klingon War.
They have the power and the willingness to force all of Starfleet to stand down, if they felt it was necessary.

>Why the Romulan standard ship is three times as large as the Federation's flagship and devotes all of its space to war, stealth, and engines while the Federation devotes most of its space to luxury and science and yet they are at best on par with the Federation

To rival other smaller vessels

>Why the Klingons, who prize honor and strength, prefer tiny ships that need to use stealth instead of building gigantic warships

The smaller the ship the easier the stealth mission

>Why the Ferengi were able to build ships that rivaled the Federation's best

Didn't I already mention this before

>>47250453
I'm not sure if they're even around anymore. They just stopped enforcing the Federation-Klingon treaty after like a decade and haven't been heard of since as far as I know. Maybe Q chased them off?

>>47250321

Well, if you consider STO canon, it does show that thirty years after the dominion war, the Federation is NOT the happy TOS federation or early TNG federation by a longshot; and that the chaotic galaxy has led to the formation of a much more militant attitude.

It's only BECAUSE of the first 200 odd years of the liberal pacificts and its mark on the culture that the Federation hasn't turned into the Terran Empire; but it's really, really, really going down that route.

>>47250876
Especially when their captains start running around in non-starfleet ships they purchased/looted

>>47242757
Something something playing God.

I actually don't mind Phlox being against it as he is, after all, an alien, and not even a member of Starfleet. I like it when the aliens in Trek actually get to act like aliens.

>Crusher: "Worf, if you don't give this Romulan your blood, he'll die."
>Worf: "Good."

>Kurn: "Our family is dishonored, Worf! You have to stab me in the heart."
>Worf: "I'm okay with this."

>>47243037
Holy shit that is the funniest thing I'll read all day.

>>47243053
More it was the idea that nature has selected the Valakians for extinction and the Menk for uplifting. While retarded in the real world, that IS how evolution has been shown to work in Trek.

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>>47246115
By the 2370s the Andorians actually have a severe population issue. Basically they have exactly what the Valakians had in ENT, a genetic defect that is making fewer and fewer Andorians be born each generation, only their situation was compounded by the fact that they have four sexes, not two, and all four are needed, making viable births that much harder to achieve. By the DS9 era there's fewer than a billion Andorians in all of space, and the Aenar sub-species have gone completely extinct.

Federation prohibition against genetic research and genetic engineering meant that even once the Andorians went public with the crisis (a few years after the Dominion War), however, they were stymied from doing any real research into affecting a cure. Something something playing God.

The situation was bad enough that the Andorians actually withdrew from the Federation and became a sovereign nation-state no longer bound by Federation laws, for the express purpose of being able to do the necessary genetic research (which some Andorians were worried would require re-engineering the species into a two-sex species, which was as disturbing a thought for them as the idea of re-engineering humans into a single-sex species would be for us).

Fortunately the Federation is entirely voluntary and members can withdraw without setting off a civil war (and plus there was, again, less than a billion Andorians, so there was no major impact on the Federation's internal workings).

Long story short is that the Andorians eventually managed to find a solution to their genetic defect that didn't involve re-engineering themselves into a two-sex species, and they were fast-tracked back into the Federation.

By the 2410s (Star Trek Online) the Andorians are getting back in business thanks to their birthrates skyrocketing back to pre-defect levels and the Andorian Empire granting generous incentives to families to have large clutches of children.

>>47239108

Try like eighty years. The Federation basically built so many of the Excelsior and Miranda class that they were coasting off them for eighty fucking years with the occasional refit and update. Then the Borg shoed up, raped an entire fleet, and the Federation went "Ohh shit, we best start building new classes in bulk!" And the rest of the Alpha Quadrant basically shit it's pants at this news.

>>47250453
>There is a question of whether the humans in Starfleet going full WW3

World War IV, technically.

World War V if you count the Eugenics Wars, which was mentioned as "the last of humanity's so-called world wars", although World War III actually came afterwards (the Eugenics Wars were fought in the 1990s, World War III was fought from 2026 thru 2053)

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>>47238783
>Excelsior was a top of the line unit
>sort of like a proto-Galaxy.

A Galaxy is a jack-of-all-trade ship that is incredibly costly for what it does - i.e, it is good at everything, but not great at anything, and is absurdly huge, unwieldy, and costly. Not many Galaxy were produced and by the end of TNG they are considered mostly a failed experiment: why building a Galaxy when you could buy, for the same cost, one warship and one science vessel that will both be better than a Galaxy at doing war or science things?

The Sovereign is explicitly mainly a warship, cost about the same as a Galaxy, and kick ten thousand asses.

>>47251226
It's too bad we never got to see a Prometheus-class fight with anything more than two EMH's and pre-recorded attack patterns.
The Defiant proved that Starfleet can make military ships if pushed.

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>>47251406
The Galaxy is exceptional at its intended roll, however, which is an extreme deep-space exploration vessel meant to be able to operate for years without being able to get backup or support from Starfleet.

A dedicated science vessel might be better at the science side of things but is gonna find itself to be in a lurch when it encounters hostile, powerful aliens; while conversely a dedicated warship won't be able to deal with all the weird science stuff that happens in the Trek universe. And of course neither of them will likely be able to operate as independently as the Galaxy could.

>>47251410
God I hate the Defiant. Not because of it's a dedicated warship; that's just sensible with the Borg.

No, I hate the way it looks. I hate that it doesn't follow Cochrane-style rules on starship design, and I hate the fact that it has a giant phallus sticking out of its front end that is just ugly as sin.

Star Trek Online introduced the Gallant-class variant to the Defiant, (top of pic), which is more tolerable in appearance due to lacking the giant penis. But I really wish that the Defiant had looked like the (actually canon, as it appeared in First Contact, DS9, and VOY) Saber-class (bottom of of pic), which at least follows Cochrane-style starship design, or follows it closer than the Defiant did, anyway.

>>47236137
Indeed, their relationship was imperfect and they argued, but they only look comically bad because everyone else is so unrealistically happy.

What I particularly liked is that they're like that couple everyone knows, where you look at them and you just have to wonder why they're together. They have seemingly little in common, they argue and they never look utterly thrilled to be in each other's presence. They were pretty realistic though, I've known tonnes of people like Miles and Keiko.

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>>47229992
>92

Hahahahahhahahahhahaha, also, a thread this awesome and on topic could never happen on that containment board

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>>47251532
>The Galaxy is exceptional at its intended roll, however, which is an extreme deep-space exploration vessel

And even then, it failed, because the Federation doesn't *need* a ship with enough civilians to recreate civilization Adam and Eve style and an autonomy of thirty years. The Galaxy excels at this role, but this role

That's why the Voyager, its successor deep space exploration vessel, is smaller, faster, cheaper, and with less cluttering. Deep space exploration does not mean you need to have a thousand civilians on board with a school, nor does it mean you need to be able to detach the saucer from your nacelle to become two fully functional ships. The Galaxy is the epitome of overdesigned, something the Federation is accurately aware.

>>47245796
That stuff's small change, remember the Federation has replicators small enough to fit to a mine, an understanding of nanomachinery, holographic soldiers and weapons like the fucking genesis device.

If they weren't concerned about the consequences they could probably construct torpedoes which could convert matter into more starships, or a swarm of self replicating semi sentient and utterly genocidal genesis weapons with phasing cloaks. Unleash them at a starship and they use a combination of nanomachinery and replicators to construct more of themselves (or even a drone starship), launch them at asteroids and they make as many of themselves as they can, bed in for a few weeks and start utterly wiping out planets.

Hell, given their tech level they could probably fit the whole package into a machine smaller than a shuttle AND make it warp capable. It wouldn't even be hard.

>>47251692
Also Starfleet probably realized how awful the idea of sending entire families into space was after the first time a torpedo breached the hull and exploded in the middle of the ships school or nursery, which has apparently happened more than once according to their location on the blueprints.

>>47251791
>Be a kid on a Galaxy class
>dad is a turbolift repair tech and mom washes windows all day
>Go to school with 40 other kids all around my age
>Ship keeps shaking and knocking shit off the shelves because the ship is in the middle of one of the largest offensives in the Dominion war
>Still have to take an algebra test
>Find out later the really little kids classroom got hull breached and all the toddlers were sucked out into space during high warp maneuvers
>Ships councilor visits everyone and openly mocks them for not getting over it right away and then fucks the first officer in the turbolift
>Just another day on a Galaxy Class

>>47251755
>“We’re human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we’re killers . . . but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill — today!”
But tomorrow is another matter.

>>47251692
>because the Federation doesn't *need* a ship with enough civilians to recreate civilization Adam and Eve style and an autonomy of thirty years.

There's actually only 100 civilians aboard, most of them simply the family of officers. Enterprise is along the lines of some old British or Spanish exploration vessels from the 1700s where the officers might legitimately have their family aboard, but that doesn't mean that every crewman does.

We *see* the school, after all, and there's only about a dozen kids in it.

>>47251791
Try and remember the time period in which the Galaxy-class was built. By the 2360s the Romulans had been behind closed borders for decades, the Klingons were allies, and no other interstellar nation had anything close to resembling the size or influence of the Federation. This is before we even begin to touch on the sheer technology gap between the Federation and other stellar nations. As of "Encounter at Farpoint" the Federation is roughly analogous to a United States that includes all of North and South America and has exactly zero internal problems, AND is strongly allied with Russia.

The Federation had become a touch arrogant, but that arrogance was totally justified because they were legitimately out of any real foes to take seriously and had achieved absolute hegemony over everything they were aware of.

>>47251755
This is why I say that if you remove the plot armor but also remove the plot-induced stupidity, the Federation becomes the scariest motherfuckers this side of the Imperium of Man.

>>47214261
>Artemis: Spaceship Bridge Simulator.
THANK YOU, I have been trying to find this game for like 2 years
I have like 9 people that want to try it I have somehow managed to not be able to find it

>>47251968
The really sad thing about humanity (and I'm aware that that sounds arrogant of me) is that that kind of murderous vindictiveness isn't even something we need to be pushed into particularly hard. It's pretty much our default setting when we think we can get away with it.

>>47252043
Not by the time of Star Trek it isn't. Remember that Star Trek's humanity exists on the far side of two thermonuclear wars (the Eugenics Wars and World War III) that firmly taught humans that we need to stop being so damn vindictive and kill-crazy or we were going to end up killing ourselves off. And by and large we succeeded.

Note that in the end, for example, the thing that defeated the Dominion wasn't a grand "kill 'em all" attitude, but a combination of selective targeting (the Founders with a genetic virus; the Jem'Hadar with their ketracel white dependency) and basically waiting for the Dominion's own megalomaniacal tendencies to tear their alliance with the Cardassians apart.

Beyond that, though, if I want war and death and Byzantine politics I can go to pretty much any sci-fi series. The basic premise of Star Trek, however, is supposed to be that humans can be *better* than we are today. Roddenberry wanted to create a future that people would actually want to live in. Deep Space Nine was a fun diversion from that for awhile, but it should never, ever, EVER become the standard for the series, or else Trek loses everything that makes it Trek to begin with.

>>47252172
>Note that in the end, for example, the thing that defeated the Dominion wasn't a grand "kill 'em all" attitude,

Followed by by extending a hand of peace and friendship with an argument that actually got through to the Founders.

Though really the feds could have just stayed out of the Dominion's territory in the first place.

>>47252332
>Though really the feds could have just stayed out of the Dominion's territory in the first place.

The Dominion's motivations are such that that would have only delayed the inevitable; they are an expansionist faction stymied only by the sheer distance between the Federation and the Dominion.

>>47251170
>Andorian Empire

Who the hell did they conquer?

>>47252606
My heart the moment they appeared on screen.

Seriously they were one of the few consistently good things about enterprise

>>47252172
>but it should never, ever, EVER become the standard for the series, or else Trek loses everything that makes it Trek to begin with.
I agree that it shouldn't become the standard (otherwise we're just the Terran Empire), but I think that humans constantly waging an unconscious battle with their genocidal instincts, contrasted with the Vulcan's who openly admit that they still fight their emotion-fueled violent tendencies, and who secretly scare the living shit out of even more openly violent races who bothered to learn a little more about humanity, would be a good thing to have every once in a while.

>>47252864
Get a load of this Tellarite

>>47252864
I would let Shran conquer more than just my heart, ifyouknowwhatimean.

>>47252606
Andor. That is, Andor, like Earth, used to be made up of a bunch of nation-states that would compete with each other for various political, religious, ethnic, etc., reasons. So again, just like Earth. Plus prior to the genetic defect I mentioned upthread Andor actually used to have an *overpopulation* problem, particularly seeing as it's a frozen moon where presumably food is scarce.

All this eventually changed when one Andorian empress by the name of Thalisar managed to unify all of Andoria under her own nation, becoming Thalisar the First.

However, Thalisar also deliberately died childless while simultaneously spending most of her life setting up a Constitutional Monarchy, the head of which would be the Empty Throne of the Andorian Empire. So Thalisar is remembered as Thalisar the Last in that she was both the first and the last Empress of Andor.

Basically it's the equivalent of some dude conquering all of Earth and calling the nation the Terran Empire. Okay, so he doesn't necessarily rule a huge empire, but he does rule all Terrans, so it's not wrong to call the place the Terran Empire.

Although to further your question, the Andorian Empire would go on to, at its height, control thirteen star systems and fight several major wars against the Vulcans and the Vegans. The latter, the Vegan Tyranny, was defeated so hard that the Vegans ceased to exist as major interstellar players.

The Andorians were usually the second-most powerful nation in local space after the Vulcans, though on occasion they eclipsed even them. They were never as strong as the Klingons, though.

>>47252864
Also this, Andorians are overwhelmingly my favorite Trek race, largely due to Enterprise.

>>47253090
Oh, if you're curious, Thalisar the Last is referred to as a "she", but I don't think we know if she's a shen or a zhen. The difference being whether she has an ovipositor or an egg pouch, respectively.

>>47253090
>The andorians defeated the vegans once and for all
Now we just need to remove crossfiters and PETA.

Fallin' off the board, so one last time

Remember when Troi's mom fell in love with that guy and then he killed himself?

>>47209313
Federation has better tech, more people, and lots of other advantages. Romulans need to devote all their resources to war just to stay even

Bigger Warships =/= Better Warships and stealth is a massive advantage in battle of course they prioritize that

The Ferengi never made sense, they're just strawman Libertarians (or Jews if you're less charitable towards Roddenberry)

File: d bird.jpg (140KB, 587x443px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 587x443px

>>47253476
Considering his position, it seemed like a reasonable thing to do.

Also, D'deridex forever. You stealth-hfy fuckers are pathetic!

>>47253476
That's actually a great episode, I think. I love Lwaxana.

Then again I haven't seen much DS9, and I understand she becomes much worse there.

>>47253548
Yeah, I actually liked that episode, just didn't like the guy caving in there at the end.

>>47253476
>Fallin' off the board
Dare I say it, but I've really enjoyed this thread. We must try it again some time.

Oh shit wait I just remembered a good one. Last one for real this time

Remember when Riker got Q powers and let a little girl die, granted Geordi the gift of sight, made a fuck-buddy for Worf, and turned Wesley into a weird child-man?

>>47253634
And then Picard smugged Riker into not using his powers for no good reason.