Warhammer Fantasy General

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First for Skaven a best

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Is the guy curious about the empire infantry still there ?

>>47172795
Wow this pic is so bad I gave myself eye cancer.

Sorry.

I'm writing up a 2500 Ogres list for 9th, and I'm not sure if I am on the right path.

Right now, my list is a level 4 Slaughtermaster/Great Shaman decked out, a decked out Tyrant/Great Khan, and a tooled up BSB. Then I have a meat bus of 12 Bruisers/ironguts, and 2x8 Warriors/Bulls, everything with full command. Then, 3 leadbelchers, 3 squads of 1 cat, and a Frost mammoth/Thundertusk.

That 2500 list has 1175 points spent on core, 250 on special (120 of that is redirectors), and 190 of Rare. Am I going overboard on Core?

>>47172938
Don't Ogres usually run a fat Iron Gut Deathstar?

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I'm creating a late scenario encounter for my PCs, who will probably be starting or near starting their second careers by the time they encounter it. It's a hard-hitting monster with SB of 5 and effective TB of 7 unless the PCs take precautions (in which case it'll be at 5). It has regeneration (as trolls, adjusted for the specific creature). I'm giving it the following rule:

Hungry Like the Wolf: The Beast must make a Willpower test after killing a living target or else spend one half action of its next turn gorging itself.

Should I make that a full round penalty for the critter, or is a half action penalty enough?

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Am I the only one around here who likes all the crazy high Magic, high tech, unrealistic fantasy aspects of the warhammer world? I feel like everyone else thinks it's supposed to be a game about the common man defending his home with a sharp stick and some boots, if he's lucky. I always saw it as a setting made for huge, epic scale battles with monsters, magic and war machines. If unwanted gritty and realistic is play historicals. I like seeing normal empire soldiers marching alongside demigryphs and battle altars, It reminds us that this is a FANTASY setting, not a historical country dropped from the real world into a fantasy one.

>>47173970
I want both. A middle ground, if you will.

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Vermintide: Tabletop Adaptation

>>47173970
The original allure of it was how grounded it was compared to everything else. What ludicrous things were there was meant to be special, and still somewhat grounded. The original team were actual historians, with degrees.

Giant men in golden armor and floating asteroids ruled by gods with both embodying an aspect of the universe threatened by a villain who destroys universes to occupy his downtime is the opposite if what Warhammer was created to be.

>>47174024
For a middle ground, I'd go with something more mild. Warhammer is essentially fantasy tropes on cocaine. The conflicting battle between magic and faith in the invisible and technology and reliance on solid metal and explosive powder.

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>>47174070
Warhammer Quest: Vermintide.

>>47174138
You forget Warhammer Fantasy created about half of those tropes.

Its so "generic" because everyone copied it. Like Star Trek.

It wasn't the first, but everyone who came after owes it inspiration credit.

>>47173268
I don't know what ogres "usually" run. I have never played them, as I only started them when I realized that I could pick up a good 5k of ogres off if Ebay for cheap. I'm just now getting around to painting them.

>>47174183
I never said it was generic, but rather that it took what it had and cranked it up to 11.

>>47174165
>>47174070
I'm still waiting for a playable Ogre leadbelcher

>>47173970
As long as the high stuff doesn't completely replace or overshadow the lower stuff then it's perfect for me.

After all the impact of an element is measured relatively to the point of reference provided, a mechanic war machine is impressive when marching alongside men at arms, less so when accompanied by a dragon wizard and a fire elemental instead.

>>47173970
It probably depends on which edition you consider to be the definitive one in terms of fluff. I love the 6'th edition fluff with the gritty dark fantasy focus and gothic pseudo realism. After the Storm of Chaos, the fluff starts getting shittier, it really starts taking a turn for the worse in 7'th edition when it starts becoming cogfop and it becomes high fantasy tripe with the 8'th edition.

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>>47174024
>>47174138
Middle ground is 8th edition. You still have normal men Making up the majority of the armies, but then you also have things like mobile battle towers and demigryph Knights and clockwork Angel skeletons alongside all that. I like the empire seeming like a nation that developed from barbarism into a flourishing empire in a world full of magic and mutants. Not a real world nation that got dropped into a fantasy world and added a couple of wizards and a steam tank.

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>>47174361
I think that's in Mordheim, the heavy class for Empire mercs is an Ogre. He's smarter than the Rat Ogre because he doesn't have Stupidity, I know that.

>>47174595
It's dead anyway. It doesn't matter what people prefer and not everyone is ever gonna prefer the same thing. I personally think that playing around with magical pseudohistory is more entertaining than spectacle fantasy elements that's just there to look cool with not much thought behind it.

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POST THE YOUTUBE LINK TO A SONG THAT REPRESENTS YOUR FAVORITE RACE AND/OR FACTION!

https://youtu.be/V4U07_4rvbM

TOMB KINGS.

>>47173268
Not in 8th, because irongits only serve to hunt against heeavy calvalry which fell out of favor in 8th
Irongits:great weapon so always strikes last and +2 are leading to a -3modifier to enemy armor saves after standard ogre strength adds in also
Ogre bull-same armor save and a parry for less than an irongut
Not asl(being slow does not mean always striking last(especially with some augment spells))
Option to trade parry for an extra attack
And since ogres are already monstrous infantry and comparatively elites you can just swarm armored infantry like chaos warriors in fat sweaty bodies, which means more impact hits and hideous, hideous 3 rank horde support attacks.

TL;Dr:8th edition deathstar s a meatbus of 18-24 ogres with a lvl4 butch (and a decently kitted bruiser to soak challenges if you want to be hated) just running up a flank and stomping squishy shooters before nailing unsupported core

>>47173970
Nah, it's one of the things I enjoy about WHF, but I prefer it being merely a part of the world and not the overwhelmingly defining characteristic.
Otherwise every peasant might as well have a hochland rifle above the fireplace while steamtanks patrol the roads between villages under the watchful gaze of demigryph knights.
Also beastmen under every bed.

>>47174988
>not wanting every peasant to be a demigryph driving a steamtank bristling with hochland long rifles

You have shit taste anon

>>47175102
Not in Warhammer Fantasy.
In its own setting I'm all for it.

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>>47175102
Anon, when every peasant has that shit it makes the one crazy fucker whoms face is best described as "ruddy, porkchops, laurels, monocle" who has those things less important.

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>>47175149
Like Warcraft? Where peasant farmers have a wizard in every village, and giant robots working the fields?

>>47175214
Sure. While I preferred Warcaft 1&2 and to some extent 3 to what WoW became I don't mind that kind of over the top, silly world.
Hell, in 40k orks are my favourite faction, that should tell all.

You know, Ghal Maraz doesn't at all look like something forged by dwarves for dwarves. Literally what else made by those furry manlets is adorned with skulls and a cross?

My WHFB likes vary depending on the faction. For example I like the Empire being a fairly grounded pike-and-shot faction with the odd Battle Mage or borderline magi-tech Engineer contraption. I didn't particularly mind the Imperial Exotic Menagerie, but I wasn't necessarily fond of it either. Overall their stylistic theme helped to make them distinct from the typical human polity in other settings.

Contrastingly, I love the Tomb Kings amped up to 11 with the fantastical elements. Nigh-literally bronze-skinned men swinging impossibly sized weapons whilst riding chariots through enemy lines, lines of thousands of archers firing individually-blessed arrows that unerringly seek out their foes, animated statues and effigies of the gods tearing themselves from their pedestals to crush their puny foes beneath them… all this and more before even getting into them after their Undeath!

>>47175274
The problem is, that shouldn't be Fantasy.

Instead of warping an existing game into something else in an act of extreme flanderization, just find something more your style.

I like Warcraft as well (can't play MMOs anymore, do NOT have the time or patience) but liked Warhammer BECAUSE it was unlike Warcraft.

>>47175288
It's a replica, the original was reclaimed after Sigmar prancing away into the wastes.

>>47175340
>The problem is, that shouldn't be Fantasy.
>
>Instead of warping an existing game into something else in an act of extreme flanderization, just find something more your style.
Anon, get your glasses or learn to read.
You're arguing with some other anon replying to my post.

>>47175367
>>47175340
As in you are arguing with someone else while replying to my post.
I was saying exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of.
But here's the tl;dr if you don't want to read back:
>I like that shit but not in m-muh Warhammer

>>47175185
Not even AoS has demigryphs driving around in steamtanks, that was an obvious joke. Personally I would have liked the empire to have more than 8 steamtanks. Not a whole panzer division, but maybe enough to where 1 to 3 showing up to major battles is pretty standard. A few dozen would be enough to fulfill this. Never liked how they failed to innovate on these until the end times, despite having them longer than America has been a country

>>47174925

Yeah, what you wrote is full bullshit. Normal Ogres won't do shit against anything with saves, while S6 ironguts decimate fucking everything. Not to mention Ironguts can take a magic standard, so if you go star you go Ironguts.

Just looking at the latest ETC, the ratio of ironguts core to bull core is 6 to 1.

>>47175712

This. Ironguts are better against dwarfs, warriors of chaos, temple guard, orcs, other ogres, trolls, beastmen, chaos dwarfs, nurgle, life wizard white lions, anything armoured including inner circle knights, silver helms, dragon princes, bretonnia, chariots, dwarf/chaos infantry, any fighter character, any monster...

S6 beats the +3 attacks from additional weapons (or 6 if you are going horde) any days of the week

Take 6 ogres vs silver helm bus for instance.

Bulls: 18 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 2 dead silver helms after saves
Bulls with ahw: 21 attacks, 10.5 hits, 7 wounds, 2.33 after saves
Ironguts: 18 attacks, 9 hits, 7.5 wounds, 5 dead silver helms after saves

If you go horde and triple the amount you'll see that the guts just annihilate a silver helm bus while they are very much in fighting shape still after the bulls' attacks. Also given that they strike first, they would pretty much beat the normal bulls while lose horribly to the guts.

No idea what augment spells is the guy talking about for Bulls and I2 by the way, Ogres don't have access anything that boosts initiative.

>>47174925
>>47175712
>>47175920

Feel free to continue the 8th talk in its spiritual successor's thread:

>>47165549

This is the thread for 6th edition.

>>47175946
P-please accept this (You), s-senpai! I w-worked very hard on it!

>>47175946
Please die.

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So, my group is going to give 9th age a whirl and see if we like it.

So as a Tomb King player, have they improved at all? Or are we still bastard step child level undead?

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>>47176129
>9th age

>>47176180
better than post-Daemons 7th

>>47175920
Are Silverhelm buses even worth it? I'm asking because i'm thinking about buying a couple of boxes and using them as mobile character delivery systems in a 3x3

>>47175946
>muh 6th edition
Too bad any new games based on Warhammer from this point on will be based on 8th/end times

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>>47176766
As a Skaven player I'm fine with this

>>47176693

Yeah, they are awesome. Filling your core with M9 S5 ASF 2+ troops is obviously quite good, but don't forget to put some princes/nobles and maybe a High Mage there for extra battle res + survivability if you are building a bus.

Actually silver helms worth it every way, 15+ bus, 12 combat, 5-6 chaff units. Blue chip choice in the HE core.

>>47175920
>>47175712
>>47174925
>>47173268
>>47172938
Anyways, here is said list in question. I'm spamming the shit out of Core, 16 warriors, in addition to my GutBus. Note, I don't really know how to Ogre, and my collection is mostly core. Also, the level 4 and Thundertusk have to stay, I have some cool conversions that I made that I insist on using.

Lords-(688)-
- Great Khan (Hoardmaster, Heart-Ripper, Mammoth-Hide Cloak, Dusk Stone, Potion of Swiftness, Ogre Crossbow)-310
- Great Shaman (Rottenjaw, Level 4, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Gem of Fortune, Dispel Scroll, Iron Fist, Path of Butchery)-378

Heroes-(195)-
- Khan (Battle Standard Bearer, Dragonscale Helm, Dragonskin Banner, Ironfist)-195

Core-(1175)-
- 12x Bruisers (Champion, Musician, Veteran Standard Bearer, Banner of Speed)-551
- 8x Warriors (Heavy Armour, Iron Fists, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer)-312
- 8x Warriors (Heavy Armour, Iron Fists, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer)-312

Special-(250)-
- 3x Bombardiers (Musician)-130
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40

Rare-(190)-
- Frost Mammoth-190

2498/2500

>>47176987
Cool I'll have to make the leap and go for it! So far for mounted options all i have are 10x Reavers and a min unit of Dragon princes and a couple of chariots pretty much everything but the helms

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So can any lorefag tell me what that angry moon symbolizes and why it's used by both the Empire and goblins?

>>47177542
its probably morrslieb the giant second moon thats made out of warpstone and is all that remains of at least one of the chaos gates.

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>>47177542
Why indeed...

>>47177542

something something mad moon

>>47177542
Morrisleb, the moon made of Warpstone.

It's the origin of Morr, the death god, and the Bad Moon worshipped by Gobbos.

Also, what exactly does it look like when the Curse of da Bad Moon is cast? A floaty green sphere with a face, like in Total War?

>>47174024

This sounds best to me.

Honestly I think it's impossible to say Fantasy is entirely one or the other because it was a setting conceived by tossing together everything and the kitchen sink.

>>47174127

They added historical stuff because they liked it and may have thought it was appealing, but I don't buy for a second that they were actually trying to create cohesive setting. It has been admitted as such that Fantasy's setting was basically something to do with the miniatures they already made.

It's also kind of funny you talk about certain aspects of AoS and seemingly forget all about how the Old Ones used space magic to travel to the Fantasy world and terraform it to suit their needs, to say nothing of the Realm of Chaos as a whole and the effect it and the Winds of Magic had on the Fantasy world.

>>47176766
Could be based on WHFRP

>>47175588
Or its a stated problem they get destroyed about as fast as they can get churned out.
That there's 12 known to have survived multiple battles, and the lore specifically mentions 8 of them while leaving four vague to be Your Dudes.

>>47176129
Fuck yeah.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_9th_Age

Check the TK changes, even the basic ones are pretty fucking buffing.
Plus we can be Cathay now.

>>47176180
Piss off.

>>47176766
Nah, when they release Warhammer Classic either due to Age failing or them finally realizing they can have multiple games that use the same models in play at once, it'll revert to a mixture of 6e and 8e, plus whatever they feel like grabbing from 9th.

>>47178130
I know bringing up Age of Sigmar is taboo, but its worth a toss out that apparently all the greenskin gods are legit and parts of Gork and Mork. Apparently the Spider God is a small mortal spider that bit Gork and mutated into a gigantic god, and the Bad Moon is apparently a real thing somehow too.

All of those gods survive as long as Gork and Mork do, and they survive as long as there's greenskins. Which nothing, even Chaos, can't fully wipe out.

>>47178524
That's the origin of the world though, and nothing focuses on being inside the Warp.

Our perspective is towns and forests that can be found on a world map, not massive floating space continents.

>>47179281
>At the start of your turn after the death of the Hierophant, you may choose a new Hierophant from your Path of Sand Wizards.
Good start.
>"Underground Ambush" replaces Entombed Beneath The Sands. Functions like the standard Ambush rule, but emerging from the "Underground Point" which is determined when the controlling player chooses any point more than 3 inches away from an enemy and 1/2 inch away from any Impassible Terrain and scatters that point 2d6. The Unit emerges with either the front of the first Rank or the back of the last Rank in contact with the Underground Point. If the Underground Point is on an enemy Unit, the emerging Unit enters into base contact with their front Rank in Close Combat. The emerging Unit counts as having already Charged and cannot Charge again. If the Underground Point ends up somewhere that the model cannot emerge, the Unit remains underground and can try to emerge again next turn.

Its official, they fixed Tomb Kings.

>>47179281
Sorry people actually like fun rules over autismhammer

>>47179466
Oh hush, that meme is stale.

There's more variation there than there was in 8e. Other than the missing named characters, but you can't play those in any tourneys anyway so it doesn't matter.

Plus, the rules are just a rebalancing. You can actually take ANYTHING from 8e you still want to use. Unlike Age, 9e is basically the same system so if you want to field Skrolk or the Sisters of Twilight you can without having to do any work making them fit. You can also use any of the random charts you still feel like using.

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>>47179520
>>47179466

No 8th better if you don't play against douche WAAC.

Stupidly inflating core cost to prevent people from taking even 26% of them is ridiculous, also some armies clearly got the shitty end of the stick.

>Plus, the rules are just a rebalancing. You can actually take ANYTHING from 8e you still want to use.

No, be it Chaos, DE, HE, WE, Bretonnia, or any armies that had worthy core troop gotbuttfucked to a single build :
minimal troop, maximal hard hitting unit.
Because all core are REALLY a tax now.
Also, killing a monster kill the rider ? kek.

9th is made by people barely better than GW at making rules. Removing the fun part of 7 & 8, nerfing the core and slapping a "muh community bestest rule" stamp on top of it doesn't cut it.

The only reason people are even considering this as an alternative instead of other replacement system or 7/8 is only because there is a 9 in the name.

>>47179631
>th is made by people barely better than GW at making rules.
...but that means you think 9th is better.

Also, NOBODY in 7e or 8e ever took more than the core tax unless they were Goblins or Skaven flooding the table in minis. Which nobody really did because you'd have to buy that many minis.

>Also, killing a monster kill the rider ? kek.
Hey, saves us having to have more than one model to represent Settra after his chariot tips over or Teclis getting his riding shoes in the mud.

>tfw bought some eternal guard bodies off of ebay to make black guard with

Does anybody have a scan of the assembling instructions, because I have no idea which front portions goes with which cape section.

>>47174070
that's an old idea
i have a few conversions in progress on my table (and several anons too, i believe), and half-complete rules on my phone

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>>47174138
I'd more call TES fantasy on cocaine. WFB just never felt that crazy, especially with its background lore. It shouldn't be overstretched.

>>47178130
Before total war I imagined it as the shadow (or the light, depending on the current illumination of the battlefield) overstretching over the unit rather than an actual physical object

>>47180406
>shadow
Of the moon, of course

>>47173970
that's what warhammer is for me, anon. i have plenty of better "grounded" settings to choose from. warhammer is all about crazy

>>47176766
Kings of War is like a super streamlined version of 6'th edition.

So, /whfb/ what are you currently working on?

>>47180620
I got some Bretonnians waiting for me back home.

For the first time in its existence the /AoSG/ is better than the /whfbg/ because they have the upcoming pointsystem, while all you have is retarded edition wars.
Good riddance.

>>47180275
kek.

>Saying it's low fantasy lore
>Posting the blandest artwork

you do remmeber that the other 98% of the old world that isn't bretonnia/empire is basically TES x1000000 ? raging demons, mountain sized Shaggot older than the world, lizardmen , skavens, undead legions, ogre, etc ?

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>>47180663
I'm not saying that WFB is bad or anything. They just don't have the crazy lorewriters that Bethesda has/used to have. No CHIM, no Tribunal of false gods, no events and stories repeating eternally across time, no reality-bending dwarves who managed to deny themselves out of existence and create a metal god that unmakes the very world it walks upon, no robot (who is both the avatar of a god and blessed by his exact opposite god) being sent back to the past to defeat the sons of a god from the last kalpa, no entire people managing to slice their way from the last cycle of creation into the next, no hints at some mystical purpose to all of life and mortality...

I mean, WFB isn't bad. It's honestly really fucking cool, especially since so much of its stuff is obvious and right there and you can put it on the tabletop. But it's not anywhere near cocaine levels of craziness of TES.

>>47180620
Rebasing my 6th Vampires to round Bases to play A Fantastic Saga and Dragon Rampant. They are the first models I got and working with them again is the best hobby experience I had in years. Also bought some more 6th ed skellis and am now aiming for some ghouls. I'm trying to decise between heresey minitires ghouls, 6th ed from ebay or 4th ed from ebay. Already own 8 ghouls from 6th ed and i plan on getting 24.
Next step will zombies so I'll have at least 48. Kind of ironic how I quit during 8th because I didn't feel like buying/building/painting hordes, but now I go for 48 skellingtins with spear/shield, 24 with bows and at least that many zombies + grave guard and other elites. Having them on round bases is just glorious.

>>47173716
Full action seems more logical

>>47179341

That doesn't change the fact that Fantasy had plenty of shit in it that would and arguably is getting mocked in AoS, but was either squirreled away or conveniently ignored in favor of the narrative that Fantasy was all illiterate peasants and HFY.

Seriously, when one of the greatest criticisms that is being lobbed at the current GW Design Studio is that the setting is now being curated by people who were mostly fans of GW's games, the inspiration from AoS had to have come from somewhere close to home.

>>47180663

This is part of it too, people focus so much on the Old World that they forget that there is an entire other world out there that isn't exactly grounded or normal, especially the farther north you go.

>>47180731
Yup, the Elder Scrolls has a very unconventional subtext in what appears to be a generic fantasy world at first glance.

>>47180849
>in favor of the narrative that Fantasy was all illiterate peasants and HFY.
I have litteraly never heard a description of WHFB that false.

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>>47180849
Warhammer isn't just the empire, why is this so hard for people to realize? We could easily say its about any of the other factions

Warhammer isn't about huge gun lines and men defending their homes and the occasional wizard. It's a setting where the average reptilian takes up his weapons and fights against the horrors of the world, using only the skills that were programmed into him at creation. Its about legions of fearless dinomen holding the line against endless swarms of daemons for years at a time. It's about arboreal hells where even the mists can come to life and attack you. It's a setting where mountain sized pyramids dominate vast, ancient cities that put the greatest works of all lesser races to shame. It's a setting where giant frog men can shift continents and blow up meteors with their minds, where dinosaurs carry giant laser beams and eldritch snake generators into battle. This is what Warhammer is about, people need to take their HFY bullshit elsewhere

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>>47180275
WHFB gets crazy once you start taking a closer look at the Orcs and Goblins. The human realms has a lot of quirks to them. It's just that the ordinary humans do ordinary things in between the crazy stuff happening and don't engage in a whole lot of crazy like the heroes of the setting does.

>>47180731
>no entire people managing to slice their way from the last cycle of creation into the next, no hints at some mystical purpose to all of life and mortality...
For the first you can have ward's lore about the elves in the ens times I know, I know, end times and all that, for the second you have to remember that the old ones uplifted the races for a very specific project, we just don't have the full vision of it but it likely involves contrasting chaos and becoming self-made godly beings.

>>47180912

The peasant part may be a stretch, but when some people talk about the Empire (Particular in relation to 40k), there is a very HFY undertone to their words. They're also usually the same people who don't look beyond the Old World.

>>47180916
The Empire is the heart of the Old World and the most prominent human realm. It was basically what the Imperium is to 40k; a point of origin that everything else revolves around. However, the Empire is not nearly as intrusive as the Imperium is and all the other factions history are not defined by them, but they has been important to a lot of the other factions fluff.

>>47180916
All of that sounds dangerously AoS.

>>47180951
I don't look beyond the Old World a whole lot because I don't find what goes on outside of it to be interesting.

>>47180951
There is no hfy in whfb famalam. The only point where I would say there is a little hfy, is the empire state troops. But even then they rely on gods luck machines and allies and orks.

>>47181012
Don't forget about the knights who are the brave defenders of humanity.

>>47181027
Maybe the elite ones which ride with the Karl or Valten. But the rest are just simple knights who can barley kill an ork on their own. Nothing hfy desu.

>all this whining about HFY

Guys, HFY only becomes faggotry when when people use it in a context that makes everything else that is non-human look retarded and it's presented like some kind of propaganda story.

HFY is cool when humans are presented as an underdog that fights against the odds. Anything else is vanity.

>>47180964

So damn defensive that you can't even handle criticism of some people who play the game.

I think that, besides probably the AoS general, this may be the only miniature game general on /tg/ that automatically assumes anyone with a criticism immediately comes from a rival.

>>47181012

I wasn't saying that HFY necessarily existed in Fantasy, but that didn't stop some people from viewing it that way. It's like the Imperium and Imperial Guard in 40k, the former of which you're arguably supposed to detest as an example of the worst humanity has to offer.

>>47181077
>So damn defensive
He's a troll

>setting has super-awesome Elves
>(yes, i'm aware it's tautology, since all elves are super-awesome)
>plebs talking about hoomanity or some shit
*sigh*

>>47181094
>Elves
There has ever been only one good elf, only a single one who wasn't an uptight asshole with knife ears, and it was caledor dragontamer.

Elves a shit.

>>47181077
I think that the shitpost culture that the AoS generals picked up from their very start leaks into our thread.

>>47181089

Or someone who forgot that neutrality and objectivity is a thing.

>>47181126

The shitpost culture of AoS is pretty much the culture that has always existed around 40k and Fantasy online.

>>47181118
Hold your tongue, dwarf. Teclis helped the Empire to establish the Colleges of Magic so that the Empire could finally fight on an even field against invading forces that relied on magic.

>>47181143
>i taught my dog fetch the stick
>dog has fun fetching the stick
>my dog believes me the best human in the world

sounds about right

>>47181141
Sure, shitposting was always a problem. I just think that the shitpost culture is going stronger in the AoS threads and that they waddle over here when no one over at the AoS thread is taking their bait anymore.

>>47181165
1/10 shitpost. Maybe you should lurk more and practise your skills at /b/ or /mlp/ for a while?

>>47181179
indeed, i apologize

dogs are much more advanced creatures than warhammer humans

>>47181194
I would hope so, since dogs aren't made out of plastic.

>>47181077
Excuse me but
>empire = HFY
>strawmanning
>don't look beyond the old world
This is litterally a troll. I don't see why I have to reply with courtesy.

what has Empire to do with "have fun yourself"? or i misunderstand that acronym?

>>47181077
You sounds like the same retard saying that empire players should gtfo and play historicals instead. Same posting style, same hate against people who like a more grounded fantasy than AoS.

>>47181167
The worst kind of shitposting existed in whfbg during endtimes. It was worse than aosg will ever be.

>>47181227
Humanity fuck yeah.

>>47181288
I dunno, I remember that the first weeks of AoS was shitpost overdrive because all the angry people that showed up made shitposting a full time job for the shitposters.

1) are Warmaster minis still possible to get?

2) would this be engaging:
>first, play one-two real quick KoW battles with Warmaster minis, representing the greater battle
>then play actual WHFB battle, representing the clash between generals themselves
>the WHFB battle gets reinforcements based on the KoW battles, as regiments move to help the generals' companies

There was an article in WD back in 2004 I think by one of the developers saying he likes Empire because he likes what is basically a historical German army with some artillery and a wizard fighting goblins and chaos mutants.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude.

>>47181319
Yes,but it will take some time searching ebay and trading groups. And no absolutley not (imho).

>>47181380
Very true. But there is no stopping shitposters from baiting spergs.

>>47181380
Before this thread I never saw people discussing which flavour of empire is the best/true flavour. I don't know why people got so mad about it this time.

>>47181407
huh, i see people bashing 8th Ed empire minis all the time

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>>47181407
Someone has been baiting, or expressed his distress over that people don't has the same view of the Empire as he has for two threads now. Then people explain their view the Empire, or told Anon why they didn't agree with him and things became defensive in a very stupid way.

>>47181418
That's not strange, though. They were a radical aesthetic department from the old miniatures. The 8'th edition state troopers don't match the 5'th edition state troopers at all when put next to eachother. So that would be cause for a lot of salt.

>>47181418
From what I inderstood it was more about how much fantasy is the right amount of fantasy and not the models themselves. I always thought everyone was happy with their piece of headcanon and thaz the overall design went slightly down hill from 6th to 8th, but that was a problem every faction had and empire got some really good kits from it. The models everyone is always bitching about are the troops.

>>47181484
The 8'th editon statetroopers are quite ugly, though.

>>47181418
Well one of the 8th edition state trooper bodies is missing a god damn shoe. They are not meant to be Bretonnian peasants.

Also for at least a month some shitposter has been telling people they might as well play historicals if they dislike demigryphs.

>>47181525
This is pretty much what canceled my ambition to make an Empire army back in the day. I want my troops to look like they have dignity and all of the core state troops looks like a parody of their former plastic incarnation.

>>47173970
I may be alone in this ,but I like the aesthetics
of the 8th edition war wagons. They were a weird mix of magical artifacts, strange technology and baroque ornaments-exactly what empire should look like in my opinion.

The problem with them was the fact they were too small and were defying gravity. Also I feel they were not baroque enough-there was some concept art I believe where the laser of the luminark was placed on top of giant skeleton.

Does anybody have the imgur album with all the sketches? I remember some empire stuff,some WE stuff and I think Bretonians?

>>47180731

You mean the guy who wrote Morrowind lore on drugs? It was the only good one, and they chased him away.

Oblivion and Skyrim and Fallout 3&4 have "lore" that's laughable at best, insulting at worst.

I always liked how Warhammer mixed the grittiness of low fantasy with the occasional high fantasy shit.
It struck a good balance, unlike Age of Sigmar which has absolutely no grounding in reality whatsoever

>>47181118
I'd argue Malus Darkblade.

>>47181525
>>47181504
gosh, i always forget state troops are 8th ed too
i was referring to demighriphs and arcane/war altars. a lot of people here expressed hatred of them.

how do you feel about Silver Tower including a BLACK warrior priest? I mean, I try to be open-minded. I can get over old world being kill. I can understand new art direction. I can in theory accept stormcasts. BUT FUCKING NIGGER WARRIOR PRIESTS?!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH FUCKING GW?!

>>47182141
>I try to be open minded
>FUCKING NIGGER
fuck off bintpol

Guys, I'm the idiot from yesterday who asked about Khorne and Orcs and I was told there was nothing wrong with making Khornate Orcs.
I'm now considering getting a few units and doing so.
How would these Orcs look ?

>>47181525
Brets have two shoes.

>>47182298
Short answer:
red.
Longer answer:
Perhaps just make them so they have looted some chaos warriors?
Or they have trophies of deamons and followers of slannesh
You can make their choppas brass/hellblades give some champions mutations etc.
If you are creative,they army can look really good

>>47182382
I've never used any of that putty stuff and never converted anything, I want to start with a set of 4 basic Orcs or 8 and see what I make of it, perhaps do conversions later after I learn the game and get an actual army.

I was considering, greyish or even red skin, or very faded green. Black/red/brass armor.
This is all very new to me and I'm still in the process of learning about both painting and the lore.

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>that negroli

>>47182404
They can bodypaint themselves red, probably using markings or some ritual patterns.

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>>47182404
greenskins with different skin color rustle more jimmies than the orcs being chaotic in the first place, this doesn't help when everyone planning khornate orcs go through the phase of painting their skin red; red orcs look bad I say, pale green instead contrasts well with the red that will invariably appear on their armors or weapons or marks for being khornates, it also offers from the start an impressions of those orcs not being proper orcs: in greenskin kultur green and especially its darkest variations means being "orky" (on top of "good" and "strong", but that's a later association), having their skintone pale would be a message for saying that they are orcs, yes, but chaotics, no longer following gork (or mork) but someone else.
Pic related or even paler.

>>47182298
with pale green, red, brass/gold/yellow, metallic grey and black you should have a palette big enough.

On top of the main colors, khornate orcs would likely be even more militaristic than their normal counterparts, perhaps having slightly more elaborate weapons and armors or even act more serious in regards of warfare.
In older (40k's, since it gives us more examples of chaotic greenskins) fluff the stormboyz, who fell to khorne more often to other orcs due to them representing a rebellious phase towards the normal orcish culture, had well kept uniforms (for orcish standards) and command structure and strategic plans, despite these getting forgotten as soon as the battle began more often than not by the excited greenskins.

In warhammer fantasy we have the black orcs who are the result of the chaos dwarfs' slave camps; there're rumors that when they escaped they adopted the symbol of the horns and the bull which where symbols for the deity of the chaos dwarfs who is rumored to have khronate affinities.
So, tinker with horns and bull-like skulls and don't be afraid of using more elaborate armours and weapons (but don't forget tho chip or to add gubbins here and there).

>>47183147
Okay in that case I will go with pale/sickly/old looking Orcs that are still shades of green.
I'm gonna practice on my old Lord of the Rings shit I still have a shitload of and if i git gud, I'm gonna go get some Orc kits.
If I could git gud at green putty as well, I'd probably be buying all kinds of shit from all armies just to have all the orcs use different looted gear from dwarves, humans and such.

>>47181118
The Sisters of Twilight seemed pretty chill.

Eltharion just had PTSD.

>>47182141
Who cares, its AoS.

>>47180620
I'm currently constructing a TK army for a campaign four of us are planning.

It's set in Bretonnia, gonna involve TK, VC, Dwarves, Empire, Bretonnians, Lizardmen, DE, and WE.

Should be bretty gud

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http://www.strawpoll.me/10152099
reminder to vote

>>47180620
I've sent all my stuff off to storage while I move house, so nothing ;_;

Hat films streaming Total Warhammer right now on twitch

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In WHFRPG 2e, casters can better their chances with channeling or by using ingredients.Arcane casters can benefit from variable winds, that can give you a bonus on every die (that can be negative as well) or an additional d10.
Divine Casters can get boons for standing on holy ground (up to plus 3) and flagellating themselves gives them a bonus equal to the damage they took.
Are there any more ways of increasing your chances? Especially for priests of shallya who oppose flagellation

>>47183954

A nice, unbiased poll there m8

Too bad your 6th edition, which you aren't even playing just sperging about it here is only in contest with age of shitmar

>>47183954

Your poll is shit, here's a better version to serve your agenda:

http://www.strawpoll.me/10177609

>>47183954
but i want to vote trump... why there's no trump on the survey?

>>47172349
wait, is that boobs that skaven has?
and that hair...

is it really a cute female skaven? can i pat her?

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>>47185624
pat the rat

Does anyone know what firefighting equipment can be found in Old World cities?

>>47185877
rain
celestial and life wizards (i.e. rain too)
ornate clockwork engines, each unique in design, resembling mythical creatures, which also play music, fire fireworks and don't work half the time

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>>47183147
>In warhammer fantasy we have the black orcs who are the result of the chaos dwarfs' slave camps; there're rumors that when they escaped they adopted the symbol of the horns and the bull which where symbols for the deity of the chaos dwarfs who is rumored to have khronate affinities.

Hashut's spheres are fire and darkness, and he's associated with sorcery. His primary worshipers are dwarfs who sit back and rarely personally fight if they can let slaves do it. Hashut has huge temples built for his glorification. Whatever Hashut is, he's definitely not a Khorne affiliate.

>>47185928
There was fanon fluff that sorta half made it into forgeworlds back ground that hashut was originally a bloodthirster who earned khornes scorn by dabbling in sorcery.

>>47174070
>>47182124
Because the war altars and Demigryphs contributed to the "everybody gets monstrous creatures! Everybody gets giant magic machines!" wave of kits.

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>>47186223
Also about the time where the scale of the game went full retard

>>47186459
>you know what we need?
>a model wider than any base conceivable
>more spike wheels
>hook whips that increase the projection and break off easily

fuck that model.

>>47186459
perhaps the worst GW model i've seen

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>>47177716

>>47186223
but they come from different editions. The war altar was available in 6th edition while demigryphs, skullcrushers, etc. were an invention of 8th edition.

The sizes of the bases haven't changed, but the war altar itself may have gotten bigger

>>47186768
Moonman has a long and storied history.

>>47186768
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAxkRAQ_CQ

Ain't that the truth.

>>47186459
>>47186660
>>47186715
I think this could obviously have been done better but it's not as bad as the sisters of slaughter in terms of shit breaking.

>>47187178
huh? what's wrong with SoS? i like the masks

Imagine Bretonnia got updated for 8th edition

What would have been the obligatory huge models?

>Leon/Lord new model with a huge ass Birdhorse
>Damsels castle/Grail relicary hold by like 10 peasants
>some huge but noble beast inspired by french cryptids like a mounted tarasque or gevodan beast

>>47187214
They are spindly.

>>47187264
Did OnG not get a giant monster in 8th? or is theirs the Giant?

>>47177111
Anyone?

And what's this about Core being bad? what would I run instead of my 2x8 Warriors/bulls?

>>47187214
They were built to break off with ease.

>>47187325
Some anons consider the %25 core requirement a tax.

>>47187368
well, what would I run in place of them? Maneater Snipers?

Also, what should I do with my Maneater Cowboys?

Are tomb kings necropolis knight riders normal skeleton sized? I'm considering buying bits for a mod for a regular skeleton and I don't want to fuck up.

>>47187597
like all Tomb Guard they are pretty huge-ass
then again, all TK skellies and especially Tomb Guard are big-ass

>>47187619
I just want to use the musician arm on either a VK or TK skeleton. Will that come even close to working?

>>47185986
Sounds gay.

https://golden-demon.com/
Official goldem daemon gallery, born a few days ago, soon to be expanded, the rat-ogre is nice

>>47188681
>khorne
>dwarfs
What did you expect?

>>47180620
Just about to be finished with My WoC chosen unit converted from bloodletters, chaos knights and some bits from the Marauders and old chaos warriors packages. All I have left to do is add some plate and/or chainmail to some of their legs.

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>>47188993
The saurus warriors sprue have relatively anonymous looking pauldrons that could be used to cover the thighs, if you can find a lizardmen player who can give you his spares.

Pic related on the right.

>>47187111
Sure. I make a thread about that yesterday and get one fucking reply.

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I kinda like Mantics wonky lizardmen. It's nice to have an option that's not South American and look like a guy in a rubber suit.

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>>47187264
>Leon/Lord new model with a huge ass Birdhorse
yes, this one definitely would have happened
>Damsels castle/Grail relicary hold by like 10 peasants
there was concept art for something like this, so it could be possible
>some huge but noble beast inspired by french cryptids like a mounted tarasque or gevodan beast
pic related. some other possible huge models would be the flying ships or the giant horse head chariots also found in this pic. Bretonnia might have also gotten spirit units, something like a unit version of the green knight, and possibly some other weird spirt creatures mentioned in their 8th edition entry.

As much backlash as the big kits got, i actually liked them a lot, and wished we got some of the more bizarre things mentioned in the 8th brb. Like the empire mobile steam towers, the dwarf war machines and zeppelins, and dark elf avatars of khaine.

also if anyone has a better quality version of this picture it would be much appreciated

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>>47186715
These are official citadel miniatures.

>>47187072
Exactly. The 8th edition War Altar is twice the size of the old one for the sake of being big.

>>47186459
This. Miniature war gaming, my ass.

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>>47190637
largest I could find

>>47186459
I kinda like it. It reminds me of something silly like the wall of death from Caligula.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TJNXtQ-4SU

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>>47185986

I don't recall anything of that nature being mentioned in Tamurkhan.

>>47186459

I really do not get the hatred for big models in of themselves. If they're heavy or easily breakable that is one thing, but it's my understanding that the use one polystyrene makes that hard.

>>47190859

Or maybe that is because they thought it looked better that way?

In a way this is kind of what rankles me about some of the people who express dislike of big models, they do so out of thinking that it's some scheme to get more shekels out of them and that the models originally look like they do because that was the sculptor's intention, not because they were limited in terms of technology and resources.

I'm the person who made the comment about how a certain person should just play historicals too, but it seems so long ago that I can't even remember nor do I give a shit to.

I would not give two damns if some people just said it was their personal opinion and left it at that, but GW's online fanbase has an obnoxiously bad habit of taking a minor issue and blowing it completely out of proportion. Bitching and wailing about it whenever they have the chance like GW has committed some kind of atrocity and not simply released a fucking plastic toy.

This is a fanbase thing as a whole and isn't just limited to one website. I seriously don't think I have ever developed what seems akin to a loathing for a fanbase before, and I lurked on /v/ for four fucking years.

As far as I'm concerned, you could very much apply Laurie Goulding's words to the whole and not just Warseer.

>>47191405
Its kind of like how the $20 Screaming Bell became the $60 Screaming Bell by being fucking massive for no real reason.

>>47191505

Was the Screaming Bell always a dual kit? That could be one reason for its increase in size.

Or like I said, it's just because the technology is available.

Maybe it's possible for me to have this opinion because I don't entirely buy the idea that the sculptors are being told to do. They seem to have more power than anyone else in the GW Design Studio. They decide what gets made and then it's up to the writers to come up with rules and lore, this is straight from the horse's mouth.

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New Man O' War patch! Has a trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVleWk39KvQ

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>>47191682
No. Dual kits were something that came out in late 7e. They are VERY recent.
The Plague Catapult wasn't a thing.

The first two Screaming Bell kits were the size of a Chariot.

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>>47191738
I mean Plague Furnace wasn't a thing.

Here's the second Screaming Bell kit.

>>47185617
Trump a shit

Make the Old World Green Again

Vote IRONHIDE 2516

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>>47187307
A-rach-na-rok Spoidah

>>47191505
The plastic Screaming Bell is gorgeous, though.
The first metal one was the size of an Ogre and grotesquely overpriced for what you got.

>>47191405
My issue isn't that the model is big so much. It's that every army "needed" a towering war machine and some kind of magical ray gun after 8th edition came out. I understand people wanting something big and cool, but part of Warhammer's appeal was that every army played completely differently instead of "big infantry block, centerpiece monster, cannon thing." It all depends on the player, but as cool as the dual kits looked they made the gameplay a little more homogeneous.

>>47192087
This one
>>47191738
?

Its substantially larger than an Ogre. I have a broken one somewhere. Kind of boring (just a bell attached to a fat wooden platform), but not horrid.

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>>47192158
>>47191405
case in point take the old and new warplightning cannon

>>47192158

Every army probably got something big because it exciting to finally be able to do such kits.

Pretty much every Warmachine army has warjacks and every Hordes army has monsters, yet they all manage to play differently. If models play similarly it's not the fault of the models, it's the fault of the rules being garbage.

>>47192269

This to me look like they were going for a more ramshackle look and something more akin to a siege engine.

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>>47192310
Not to be contrarian but the old one was ramshackle enough. I just don't see why it needed to become a 2 story building

>>47192485

Like I said, to look more like a siege engine or tower. Probably doesn't hurt that the kit also build the Plague Catapult.

The Skaven are one of the races where I'd expect weapons whose basically do the same thing look different for one reason or another.

>>47192158
I agree. Even if it was purely superficial, it was nice to see variation in the look of the armies that were put out on the table

so 8th edition making everything big arguments aside, is there ever any reason to take the war altar? It 150 points for a bunch of relatively minor buffs and 1 spell that requires you to take a bunch of light wizards.

Also are either of the other empire chariots worth a shit?

>>47181118
>caledor
>not Aenarion

I guess you play AoS ?

>>47191701
So there's beastmen now? That's interesting. I never really figured them for oceangoers in any sense.

>>47194927
Aenarion is NOT a positive figure.

He's responsible for creating the Dark Elves, not just through action but by example. He was the first kinslaying psychopath hedonist motivated solely by lust and sadism.

>>47190444
Wait...is it just me, or does that red lizardman's left thigh look like a Tyranid head? You can almost even see the jawbone.

>>47195043
Did some playing, apparently they just have war canoes. They're REALLY fucking fast, so I think them boarding you is all but guaranteed.

>>47181953
Fallout 3 and 4 are shitty, no one's denying that. But Oblivion is important in the Knights of the Nine DLC, with all the details about Umaril the Unfeathered allowing us to piece together hints already given by Morrowind and the Ruddy Man - that Molag Bal was worshiped by the Dreugh in the last kalpa, when everything was a waterworld (the World-River). And even in the main quest, Mankar Camoran's ranting is very interesting. You also have Lost Boy Cavern and its lich, which helps explain how the hell the Underking came about. Skyrim I can't excuse so much. It has dragon language, but it did really leave out a lot of earlier things.

But again, WFB isn't bad. Most of TES's lore is in little in-game books and sources outside of the games themselves. WFB doesn't bullshit - the lore's right there in the books. It's more focused, and can bring out a lot more cool stuff related to whole armies that TES doesn't because it's an RPG, not a tabletop game. And it has more realistic armor overall, like with the Empire and Bretonnians, that TES simply doesn't have.

>>47195063

Huh, they all look like that

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>>47195063
It's probably just a lizard thing.

>>47195063
They actually kinda look like serpent heads in terms of proportions.

>>47195046
It's just a normal carapace, that's not really unique to nids

>>47190850
nope, still better. your picrelated is shittily designed, but concrete monster. slaaneshi chariot is just clusterfuck of bits

Still waiting for the return of fur at Skaven, i dont want humans with strange heads.

>>47196103
I wouldn't expect anything fantastic from AoS models.

>>47194287
>is there ever any reason to take the war altar?
No, and I've actually never played nor ever seen it played. I guess it's REALLY not popular.

Trough if I got my hands on a cheap old metal one I'd use it as a war beast for KoW.

>>47196103
would make sense for Eshin to shave to be more sleek or something. shaving could also be some weaboo initiation ritual they picked alongside ninjutsu

>>47194287
>>47196270
uhm, War Altar is essential part of Light Council build in 8th

>>47196278
>8e
I guess that's why.

>>47177111

The Auroch is super amazing, you should try it. dunno if you need that much core but if that's your thing go for it.

I like :
-Yetis
-Rock Aurochs
-Path of Alchemy
-Mercenaries instead of bombardiers if you're not briging a billion of them
-Yetis (they're that good)

Skaven got machines that accumulate magical energy. Old Ones obviously had something like that. Dwarf runes work similarly, as I understand.

Why did Teclis use mortals to contains the Winds of Magic when he could have used dwarfs, humans and remaining lizardfolk to make a machine that would do exactly that? Flesh is so weak, after all.

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>>47172349
Hey guys, just started getting into this setting (after it got nuked. Typical).

I have a lore question to ask. I was reading the lizardmen's lore (cool as fuck) and I was reading about the old ones and the coming of Chaos.

Why the fuck did the old ones leave? The lizardmen and the elves did a pretty bang up job keeping back Chaos on their own. Why bugger off? They could have beaten Chaos back no?

Thanks guys.

>>47196456
(offtopic)
i like the pic. might use the bit about ancient scroll even. boldest methods are most effective.

>>47196454

Before anything, Nagash grabbed Shyish and anchored it to Sylvania.

Teclis was then only able to grab Hysh, Ulgu, and Ghyran. Sigmar grabbed Azyr and Aqshy, Chamon, and and Ghur went and did their own thing.

Why he didn't choose a machine is probably because he wanted the Winds to take form in those who could make use of them and serve as exemplars for their forces. That is even assuming a machine would be able to hold even one Wind and that he would be able to get the help of humans, Dwarfs, and Lizardmen in constructing.

Majority of the dwarfs were seemingly content to try and ride out what they viewed as just another storm before the Skaven attacked. The Lizardmen likewise saw that there was nothing that could be done to save the world and that they'd be better off leaving.

>>47196454
>why didn't Teclis do one of the dozens of far more sensible plans that could have easily saved the world?
of which your plan to build a giant machine to contain the winds of magic is not one of them. Something like that just screams to be corrupted by chaos or sabotaged by skaven. Lets not forget it was the collapse of the old ones giant machines at the polar gates that lead to chaos spilling into the world. and good luck convincing the dwarfs and lizardmen to do anything.

Also, the plan was to raise mortals into gods that could possibly counter the chaos gods. which turned out to be lileaths trickery, since apparently the incarnates never stood a chance at beating the chaos gods and they were just buying time for the haven.

>>47196565
>>47196552
but giant machine containing most of world's magic, guys! that would be so awesome!

we could then have a god-like artificial intelligence and an army of magic golems subservent to its will!

wouldn't that be cool?

>>47196456
>Why the fuck did the old ones leave?
Nobody knows. They might have been wiped out by psychic backlash, they might have just evacuated and quarantined this planet, because they had an interstellar empire and this place was just another terraforming project.

>The lizardmen and the elves did a pretty bang up job keeping back Chaos on their own.
Well sure, they got it together eventually, but didn't centuries elapse? It was certainly after the Old Ones vanished anyway, and noone was expecting the elves' crazy magic vortex plan. The Slann probably assumed they were the rearguard left to fight to the last lizard.

>Why bugger off? They could have beaten Chaos back no?

It probably didn't look that way. They were suddenly under attack from a cosmic existential threat they hadn't imaged existed, and what's more their civilisation might have been under attack on multiple worlds.

But honestly you're never going to get clear answers about the Old Ones. They were an ancient mcguffin race that vanished, and they don't get brought up a lot except as the gods of the lizardmen because the world-shaping star children angle is sort of at odds with the rest of the fluff.

The most interesting thing about them is the idea that the Slann know exactly what they were, and are prepared to alter the story and fudge the details as necessary to keep the lizardmen in line, as shown by the time they admitted Sotek, a true god, to the pantheon of Old Ones to prevent all-out skink rebellion and save their own hides. If they're that pragmatic about things then there's reason to believe they're making up a lot of these ancient prophecy tablets as they go.

>>47196456
>>47196552
Even if such a machine were possible, Teclis certainly wouldn't know how to build one. Elves of every flavour took a good look at advanced technology and decided they wanted nothing to do with it, when they could achieve similar results with more primitive tools and mere centuries of training. 'Flesh is weak' probably isn't a sentiment that would have occurred to him.

>>47174127
>The original team were actual historians, with degrees.

Are... are you sure? I don't think Priestley or Ansell ever brought up their historical education, but I could be wrong. I don't think even the team that worked on WFRP, who were mainly responsible for the mud-soaked Old World aesthetic, had any serious research or scholarship behind them. They knew roughly what they were going for, so they knocked together a loose pastiche of the HRE by way of Terry Gilliam and gave lots of nobles silly names in broken German.

>>47196595
>This is where it all began, before history was recorded. A forest raised from sacred ground by the gods themselves, seeded by the Great Powers that shaped the world. Beneath jade and golden boughs, the elves were taught how to manipulate the energies that permeated the world and its surrounds: they learned magic.

>Let us be honest and call it what it was: grave naivety.

>There were other powers, far older and greater than the tutors of the elves. They had been wronged, their domains trespassed upon, their authority stolen by upstarts. In their anger they laid low the Old Ones and staked their claim to the world.

>Mighty was their anger and terrible were the hosts they poured forth to conquer the lands crafted by the usurpers. The pure magic of the timeless aeons was broken, split into the Eight Winds, and the gods of the elves were laid low, exposed as powerless figments. One power ruled, and one power alone: Chaos.

>The daemons were their servants. The elves suffered the daemons’ wrath more than any, for the elven isle, the realm of Ulthuan, was steeped in the magical energy that sustained the avatars of the Chaos Powers. Great was the torment and slaughter visited upon the Everqueen and her followers, and in the strife of the elves the Great Powers drank rich from despair and hope, fear and rage.

-Curse of Khaine

The Chaos Gods are older than the Old Ones. One wonders how the Old Ones didn't see wrath of the Chaos Gods coming for them. You cannot steal from the Chaos Gods and expect to get away with it.

>>47196456
>Why the fuck did the old ones leave?
It's entirely possible it was not exactly their will to leave, death or impossibility to live near or in contact with so much chaos may be reasons.

>>47196754
>The Chaos Gods are older than the Old Ones
shoudln't we call them Young Ones then? or at least Not-So-Old Ones? or maybe Quite-Old-But-Still-Younger-Than-Chaos-Gods Ones?

no, we shouldn't, because fuck End Times

>>47194927
>Aenarion
Dude, he is the reason elves are fucked up so badly to begin with.

No, I don't play AoS.

>>47196764
They are Old Ones because they are old compared to other mortals. Oldest of the mortal races but mortal and upstarts nonetheless compared to the eternal Chaos Gods.

Here is another juicy bit for you.

>Malekith and Alarielle were wed and he was crowned again as Phoenix King, and they believed the great cycle of the gods and life had started again, rebirth from death, growth from destruction, harmony from discord. Only the future would reveal whether the son of Aenarion could truly overcome so much personal bitterness and strife and become the ruler the elves needed.

>Such a pity that neither Malekith nor the elves had any future, for the Rhana Dandra was the End Times and there was to be no new beginning, only more death and misery.

>Lileath had lied to them. They had sanctuary, for a while, but all things fall to Chaos.

>Eventually.

>>47195043
Beasts care not about your racial assumptions and social constructs

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>>47192269
>>47192485
The cannon doesn't have to be built as the giant tower, though. The 'official' version certainly isn't.

Also IMO having it mounted like this actually makes more sense than the old design. It's a direct-fire laser gun so mounting it up on a chassis like that allows you shoot over your own forces, which makes it vastly more flexible than if the barrel were barely above head height.

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>>47196688
A lot of the provinces of the Empire does seem to have some basic research behind them at least. I doubt that they all had degrees, but they probably had an interest in history since England picked a fight with 90% of all the world countries and therefore it's probably important to know your history.

The Empire state troops all being landsknechts is also not accurate to the professional military of the HRE. Most landsknechts were really mercinaries and they dressed the way they did because they looted expensive fabrics that they turned into a uniform that they would later sell. This made nobles buttmad because the mercenary pimp regiments made the nobles look like poorfags when standing next to them. I also seem to recall that the HRE didn't decide to use extensive professional military until after the 30 Year War because mercenaries plunder your farms and towns when they are fighting a war inside your own country.

>>47196784
>end times

>>47196754
>One wonders how the Old Ones didn't see wrath of the Chaos Gods coming for them.
Vengeance implies someone being wronged, the chaos gods are barely "someone" and certainty have no proper right or need to claim monopoly over an infinite source.
Old ones are creatures of order and acted with logic, to expect the illogical reaction of chaos was not truly possible.

>>47196881
>the chaos gods are barely "someone"

The Chaos Gods are sentient entities with their wants, desires, and rights. The Old Ones invaded their homes and tried to usurp their authority and power.

There is a law. One of the principle laws of the universe. For every action, there is a reaction. The Chaos Gods acted in self defense in response to the Old Ones trespasses and dickery.

>>47196806
This to be perfectly honest. I just disregard 100% of the End Times fluff and revelations.

>>47196902
>There is a law.
but isn't Chaos a direct anthithesis of Law? shouldn't Chaos gods be like, "Fuck you, Law"

>>47196904
me too. since I began making up some headcanon to bring Vlad back without Naggy, I don't even need first book
I borrowed a few minor characters from End Times though. that Carstein girl and her strigoi lover.

>>47196912
>but isn't Chaos a direct anthithesis of Law?

No, Chaos has plenty of laws. Like the law of True Names and Khorne's no magic law for examples.

>>47196912
Anyone could have dug up Vlad's bones and ressurected him if Mannfred's bones could have been dragged out of a swamp by a necromancer and ressurected with a ritual.

Hell, the novel Ancient Blood seems to suggest that Ushoran survived his apparent death and that one was written before the 8'th edition.

>>47196930
that's some piss-poor Chaos. I'm sticking with my "moorcock but with four gods" vision of it.

>>47196932
nah, Vlad's too cool. needs someone cool. I'm having Neferata do that, since he's her husbando and stuff.

>>47196930
Chaos is not coherent like beings of law would be, though. Law view time as linear, enforces physics to work as intended and they don't entertain themselves with the randomness of mortals.

>>47196754
>The Chaos Gods are older than the Old Ones. One wonders how the Old Ones didn't see wrath of the Chaos Gods coming for them.

Because the Chaos Gods had no direct interaction with mortals and the material world until the Old Ones, in their wisdom, created big gaping holes in reality. They were pioneering magi-scientists and they were researching the Realm of Chaos as they went along. No doubt they discovered daemons quickly enough, but assumed they were mostly manageable and pretty stupid, and didn't discover the existence of vast gestalt intelligences until it was too late.

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>>47196784
>End Times lore

>>47196948
Chaos is constrained by lots of laws even in Moorcock's multiverse.

Anyway GW moved away from the Chaos/Law duality pretty early on, largely because the gods of Law were totally uninspiring. The term Chaos is still appropriate enough the way Warhammer uses it, to evoke a realm of inchoate possibilities.

>>47197000
It's worth knowing it, just to see the "canon" answers to some of the setting's big mysteries. If I end up not liking what I read who gives a shit? There was always good fluff and bad fluff and contradictory fluff in WH, it's up to every fan to decide what their ideal headcanon is.

>>47196456
according to older fluff, the WHFB world was just one planet in 40k, meaning they got wiped out by the Necrons and C'Tan

>>47196982
>Because the Chaos Gods had no direct interaction with mortals and the material world until the Old Ones, in their wisdom, created big gaping holes in reality.

Actually, the Chaos Gods have been destroying worlds and invading realities since the dawn of time long before the Old Ones existed.

>>47196804
This is pretty much accurate. The Empire is based on the armies of 17-19th centuries all mixed in together plus a fair amount of artistic license.

Source: My history degree.

>>47189098
Ah thanks for the tip mate!

My Tomb Kings are styled as barrow wights, to match my Vampire Counts (they both started as Undead Legion back in the day). So far it's just chariots, skellingtons and stuff, since I sorta put in on hold after End Times, but now I'm adding some sphinxes and colossus/hierotitan to it...

What would not!European bronze age sphinxes and colossi look like? I've got some GW sphinxes in the box and the kit is cool, so I want to use that.

>>47197661
P.S.
no giant bronze bull suggestions, please

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>mfw WH became so traditional a game, they don't produce it any longer

>>47198170
oh my god... you're right! it's like Jesus or Lenin! it died... only to become ETERNALLY ALIVE! so it can live in our hearts even truer than before!

>"If you squat me, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!"

>>47179894
>NOBODY in 7e or 8e ever took more than the core tax unless they were Goblins or Skaven
Yeah, no. Core Bretonnian knights are fucking sweet, and so are the TK archers, archers on horse and chariots, or the HE spearmen and silver helms, the LM skinks...

>Hey, saves us having to have more than one model to represent
But part of the appeal is the roleplaying aspect. I always loved the idea of the monster or the rider continuing the fights after the other was slain. Seemed very fluffy.

Not to mention that in Settra's case you can model him on a square base and place him in the chariot, easy fix.

>>47186223
>>47192158
This. The more asymmetric the forces, the better. I love that orcs can field a bunch of trolls and giants, while Bretonnia has only a few monsters. That you can make some all cavalry armies while others don't even have cavalry. That some guys have amazing war machines while others can't even shoot.

The moment you start giving monsters and chariots and war machines to armies that previously didn't have them, the setting and the game become less interesting.

>>47192310
Regardless, you lose the aesthetic of an all infantry army with some warachines facing another with alarge amount of monsters.

The new screaming bell is wonderful and fluffy, and so is the arachnarok.
But the Empire chariots are stupid, and the oversized hippogryph stupider, and the HE phoenixes and skycutterd (none of them were ever mentioned in the fluff pre 8e afaik).
And why give chariots to the chaos gods?

>>47197661
The Rhodes colossus?

>>47190444
jesus mantic make ugly shit don't they

>>47198440
...Dark Elf crossbows and dark riders, Ogre Bull/Irongut busses, Empire knight armies, Chaos Warrior deathstars...

>>47197633
Thanks for the confirmation. There are also Empire provinces that was not really part of the HRE. Nordland for instance is a combination of Sweden and Finland that's loosely based based on the Swedish empire period. If I remember correctly, it came about due to France paying Sweden to beat the shit out of the HRE for a prolonged period of time during the 30 Year War.

So Nordland would not really be part of the Empire if it was a direct historical allegory for HRE like some people seems to like to think it is.

Also, "the Holy Roman Empire is neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire."

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>>47198455
Honestly, I think that GW's Saurus warriors are so ugly that I could go either way.

>>47180983
>The Empire is...the most prominent human realm
cathay would like to have a word with you, or nekahara which is still human even if their undead humans.

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>>47197661
Mierce Miniatures bronze statues akin to Talos. There's like four different ones.

Inb4 Maelstrom controversy.

>>47198440
I actually really liked the Phoenixes.

All the High Elf Gates were named after real monsters they tame, why would Phoenixes be the only fictional one?

Plus, its a very nice sculpt.

Skycutter...eh. I'm biased towards it because I have a massive boner for non-pirate naval stuff, but it being a flying chariot is kind of lame...I love the Sea Helm, but mounted Bolt Throwers are just purely stupid and nobody takes a chariot character other than TK...there's no way it could make it to a standard game if it didn't fly and the actual sculpt of the boat portion and the Roc is amazing, but its such a massive departure from existing lore...
I agree it looks silly. I agree it doesn't fit well.
But I just can't not like it.

Also, I converted a Dark Eldar Raider into one without the bird to lead my other two. That helps it look more fitting, since it just looks like the flying ships that show up a lot in old art like >>47191037

>>47199339
>cathay would like to have a word with you
they have rules? models? no? cathai doesn't exist. at all.

>>47199657
They're mentioned here and there in lore as THE non-Elf superpower, and in 9th they have rules.

I'll avoid being an ass and making the argument "none of us have rules anymore", but am mentioning it so nobody else can.

>>47190444
shit head, but it's not too bad for the price

>>47199718
>and in 9th they have rules
terracota army, yes. but Cathai is supposed to be populated by humans and its armies led by humans. not undead statues.

Terracots Army is to Cathai what Barrow Legion is to Empire - ancient boogiemen from ancient crypts & tombs.

>>47199339
Cathay is hardly presented at all in the fluff. It has very little effect on the rest of the world as we know it.

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>>47199758
Well, they are supposed to be salamanders and their head is kinda similar to those rather than the dinosaur heads of GW's Lizardmen.

>>47179260

This is the correct way to deal with Steam Tanks.

>>47199775
Maybe we can get the 9th guys to make a living option?

Which army crunch would best represent them with moderate changes though? Dark Elves with human-level Initiative, no ASF, and a point decrease to match?

>>47199924
Skaven

>>47199924
empire

>>47199339
>cathay would like to have a word with you, or nekahara

About what? The Empire is canoically the strongest realm of men.

>>47200014
Only in the Old World.

The Old World is the Europe of Mallus.

>>47200072
>Only in the Old World.

Nope. it is outright called "the most powerful of all realms of Men."

>>47200111
Where was that?
Was it an in-universe statement?

>>47200130
>Where was that?

Latest army book.

>Was it an in-universe statement?

No.

>>47200146
Huh.
I'll have to read through, I admit I never really read the Empire books. Just glanced through Heraldry and read BL plus most of the other Army Books.

>>47200146
yeah, but way more other canon fluff says the exact opposite, ultimately you need to remember that the army books are less concerned with accuracy to the setting over all and more with getting across the feel of the faction while simultaneously jacking it off to that faction. if someone read just one factions armybooks and that was all they knew they would have a very twisted view of the setting. besides basically every "evil" army book outright said that they would be the ones to end the world

>>47200219
>yeah, but way more other canon fluff says the exact opposite

No it doesn't.
Cathay has never fucking mattered.
Just deal with Colleges of Magic trumping your silly ancient weeaboo sorceries and move along.

>>47200246
Weeab is Nippon though.

There is no word for Mulanwank.

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>>47200246
>ancient weeaboo
That's Nippon, ya git.

>>47200271
>>47200280
>implying there's difference between often-mixed nations in a setting which mixes fucking 17th century Poland with Ancient Rus

don't kid me

>>47200219
>every "evil" army book outright said that they would be the ones to end the world

>Read the Orc 8th ED book
>no mention of Orcs going to end the world

>Read the Undead 8th Ed army book
>no mention of them going to end the world

>Read the Skaven 7th ED army book
>no mention of going to end the world

>Read the Chaos daemon 8th ED army book
>Outright says that Chaos will be the one that's going to destroy the world

You seem to confuse 40K with whfb. No one else was stated to end the world eith any certainty other than Chaos.

>>47200304
>which mixes fucking 17th century Poland with Ancient Rus
Mixing it into one country. Not an island filled with weeb-wank uber-ninja masters and a separate chaos worshipping fantasy china.
Of course GW never cared about Cathay in any meaningful way anyway.

>>47200304
>Implying there's enough difference between West Vodkaburg and East Vodkaburg pre-Soviet history

Besides, that's like saying Bretonnia and Wood Elves may as well be German too.

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>>47200389
Half of Best Girl's origin story is in Cathay.
That makes it more important than the Ogres or Beastmen.

>>47200413
>Half of Best Girl's origin story is in Cathay.
That's sweet, but I can't field that on the table.

>>47200389
Eshin learned how to be Ninjas in Cathay.

>>47200413
Origin stories are a waste of time in all media.

>>47200309
The only undeads that wanted to end the world was Nagash and his Necrarch fanclub. Most undead doesn't really have a hateboner for the world or all mortals because they got better shit to do.

>>47200537
Yeah, but Eshin doesn't represent Cathay as an empire.

>>47197633
Maybe in the gunline tactics, but landsknechts + armoured knights is a considerably older look for all that they have wacky fantasy tech.

>>47200618
But it does show Cathay had ninjas, which are Japanese and not Chinese. This means Cathay is part of weebtown rather than specifically chinatown.

>tfw you will never learn more about cathays dragon emporer
>inds living immortals who does to khornate champions
>the scaled monsters that dark elves brawl with

It's a shame fantasy started to wilt, so much interesting fluff left untouched.

>>47196804
>A lot of the provinces of the Empire does seem to have some basic research behind them at least.

Oh for sure, but that wasn't the original team, that was later writers filling in the details with a bit of research. Don't get me wrong, all the human factions were repurposed historical minis from the outset and that's kind of what sets it apart from generic D&D fantasy, but their background was written in the most casual hobbyist way.

>>47197174
Source?

I'm interested but I'll ignore it even if it's true. The world was blown up, I don't need to give a shit about anyone else's version of events.

>>47200667
the last thing the game needed was more factions

though it COULD have used a sensible reboot that either kept the focus on one continent or portrayed all the major factions as world-spanning powers

>>47200537
My bad, I remembered that they picked up the ninja flair from Nippon, but now I see it's usually mentioned that they learned the art of assassination and stealth spent during their "time in Cathay and Nippon".

>>47200708
End Times Khaine.

Curse of Khaine.

You know, the Elven cycle. Lileath's sanctuary. The whole deal.

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>>47200756
>spent during their "time in Cathay and Nippon"

>>47200802
hmm. gay.

>>47200708
>Source?

Warhammer 40k.

>>47200802
>End times

cute

>>47200590
All Undead want to rule. Other than Genevieve and Krell anyway.

Neferata and the Lahmians want to rule the living and Undead in secret, and live in ultra-luxury like a Slaaneshi Prince that is capable of finding lasting satisfaction.

Necrarchs want to increase their own personal power, and become immortal demigods. This is also the goal of Necromancers. They don't care about ruling, just being able to kill with a thought and be unable to be killed.

Nagash initially wants to kill all beings, and rule over the Undead. This is also the half of the goal of the Tomb Kings, other than Khalida. The other goal of the Tomb Kings is to obtain solid gold immortal bodies capable of the pleasures of the flesh making them also like Lahmians in that regard. Nagash's goal changed in End Times when he got the vampires back in his side to keeping the living as the peasants and the cattle, while the Undead are his soldiers.

The von Carsteins simply want the same thing as the Lahmians, but they want to be attention whores while doing it. They want their name to replace Karl Franz on every suit of armor and statues of themselves to replace those of Sigmar.

Ushoran was humble, and wanted a stable system of Undead and Necromancers as equals with the living, albeit with himself as monarch. But thanks to Neferata and later the von Carsteins, the Strigoi have no goals and are the single least planning faction in Warhammer. Like Tyranids they only feed and spread themselves like an infection, but unlike Tyranids they have feelings other than hunger; shame and sadness, or delusion and delirium.

>>47200738
You can introduce a faction without giving them models and rules you know.

Black Library books should delve into this. Or a campaign event.

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>>47201124
>Ushoran

Remember to report any sightings on him.

>>47200661
Ninjas were originally Korean immigrants that the Japanese sent on black ops stuff. Mostly because the Japs figured that since the Koreans didn't have honor like the Japs did they could ask them to do anything and the Japs would avoid losing face.

>>47201124
First of all, fuck the End Times fluff. It's donkey shit.

Second, all of the Nagash fanclub Necrarchs sucks Nagash's boner and want to bring his vision of the world into being. Unless Black Library wrote something else, but all the fluff involving Nagash that the Black Library wrote is also donkey shit.

All the undead lords that leads armies wants to conquest the world and the don't speak for the entire undead population.

Fourth, I said destroy the world. What Nagash wants to do will kill everything and that is as close to destroying the world without blowing it up. It doesn't matter if he gets to rule over all the dead, the world will be fucked up beyond recovery.

>>47201497
I was going by the old Undead army book Necrarchs.

They love Nagash, but they only really pursue personal power. They don't devote their time to his goals like Arkhan does.

>>47201584
Oh, that's what the OG Necrarchs did in the old army books. I don't recall that they ever retconned that.

>>47201899
Nope.
Hell, even in End Times and all the Black Library I've read they kept that.

Necrarchs flock to Nagash, but only when he's active. If he ain't around and walking/floating, they just increase their own power and politick like loner Skryre/Moulder Skaven.

Even in ET when Nagash returned, Zacharias was only thinking of his own power.

Would an Abomination or Rat Ogre ever have white fur or horns?

Like Moulder used dead (totes not assassinated, srsly) Seers donated by the Seers? Or would the Seers/Pestilens pay extra for purely ornamental horns/dyed white fur?

>>47202500
Rat Ogres and Obaminations are freaking mutants mutated by pure mutation in green stone form. They can have anything concievable. Plus the Moulders use a variety of body parts in the experiements. Totally possible them using beastmen bodies or whatever they salvaged on the battlefield.

>>47202725
Sweet.
Making an army of Pestilens-style clan, wanted to make my creatures look the part of something religous zealots would get custom-made.

>>47202500
Skaven come in all sorts of colours, it specifically says piebald in the army books. No reason why it shouldn't have patches of white fur. Probably not albino though, that's the mark of favour of the Horned Rat, so specifically for the seers.

>>47203305
>>47203305
>>47203305
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