EDH/Commander General

Mill gives me a real serious case of the feel-bads

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I somehow managed to win with this deck a 6 player game without using politics but I see an obvious need for improvement and fine tuning. What should I do /edh/?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-05-16-tasigur-the-golden-fang-edh/

>>47145199
Where is Avengikar, Craterhoof, Consecrated, Edric, Oracle of Mul Daya, or Kodama's Reach/Cultivate?

>>47145199
>all those bad cards
Jesus anon, you must play with some real baddies to have won with that shit.

>>47145620
Sometimes a group is just real baddies.
>Someone actually won with Felidar Sovereign in their Oloro this week
>I was the only one with any removal at all and it got countered

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>>47145620
Your group must hace decks that win by turn 4. So much more fun. Fucking idiot

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>mfw im playing a 6 player game and one of the players is my 12yo nephew
>playing jhoira eldrazi.dec
>nephew playing mono blue 40 lands 59 counterspells
>tell nephew ill let him win if he counters everything the others try to do so i can rape them with eldrazi
>rape.jpg
>i concede and let nephew win
>ask the other 30yo manchildren what its like to be beaten by a 12yo
>get accused of cheating
>sorry its diplomacy
The salt anons, the salt is real

>>47145798
Did you even look at his decklist? Cards in there that shouldn't be used in event he most budget build.

Like, literal garbage cards.

>>47145868
Not everyone plays mtg like legacy anon.

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>>47145848
You sound like kind of an asshole

is Tazri any fun?

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>>47146480
Do you like the "allies" creature type?
If yes, you'll like tazri.
If no, no, you won't like tazri

>>47145912
>MTG is only bad garbage cards or $2000 dollar legacy decks
Do you realize how stupid you sound?

>>47145848
You are /literally/ the reason I built a T1 list.

All collusion and durdling shit can go die.

>>47146638
Do you realise how casual you sound? Couldnt find the standard thread?
Not even memedern plebs are this cunty

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>>47146651
Spirit of muh EDH
>implying you wouldnt just accept the fact you were beaten anf doing something about it rather than going to reddit or tumblr and crying to your internet friends

>>47146654
So now you're implying that we either play good cards and stardard or garbage and EDH?

Seriously. You are fucking retarded.

>>47146693
>MTG is only bad garbage cards or $2000 dollar legacy decks

Yes this is exactly what mtg is wither you are a kid playing mtg for fun with your friends or you are a 30+ manchild still playing with childrens games that you could have spent money on for something that contributes to furthering your life

>$2000
>legacy
maybe the landbase

You are not even trying

>>47145848
You have to be 18 to post here.

is the Meren precon a good start for a Pepe shell?

>>47146786
So which are you?

My group has been trying to get one of our friends into Magic recently and let him play one of our decks for getting introduced to the game (he plays a lot of hearthstone so it's not a hard transition). He ended up running my Talrand deck since he liked the idea of countering spells, stealing/copying people's stuff, getting tokens, and of course drawing a lot of cards. The deck ended up being pretty good for introducing him to magic since he got to have a lot of fun with interactions, controlling the board, drawing cards, and getting out dudes. There are decks that might be easier to learn from, but there weren't many cards that weren't straightforward or worked completely differently than other cards in the deck. We decided not to hold back really since the decks were all pretty strong, but would give advice and explanations whenever possible/desired. I was playing Sidisi zombies and the other friend was playing Zur enchantment control. Talrand player got to copy my Worn Powerstone and Grave Titan getting a good amount of early advantage whilst countering ans drawing cards the whole game. He started having a really good time once he accumulated some mana and got out Talrand and put a Runechanter's Pike on a drake token. My Gray Merchant of Asphodel was Bribery'd and then when I tried casting an Endless Ranks of the Undead it was countered. This gave the Talrand player the opportunity to cast Rite of Replication unopposed on the Gray Merchant gaining 100 life, making us take 50 life loss, and winning him the game. After that game he was very excited about playing more Magic and may look into building his own deck.

>>47146786
There's a middle ground tho. You can actually build a synergistic deck without spending a shitload of money. Then you can have a mishmash of shit cards that are there because they fit the colours, but they get removed when you learn to play.
I used to have fat teysa with every extort card but crypt ghast and pontiff of blight and some shit tier removal and combat trix, like Cruel Feeding and Ajani's Presence.

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>>47146786
>trying this hard to troll
>badly

>>47147512
That's a nice story.
I'm happy for your friend.

So why do you guys hate Oloro so much?
He can be quite annoying and strong but imo he isn't overpowered or unfair or anything.

>>47148360
He's just boring, aggressively so

>>47148428
Why doyou find him boring? I find him quite interesting and versatile.

>>47148446
He does stone nothing

He has won the race of survivability by never participating in the first place.

>>47148360
Because people never build him the way he was always meant to be built Giant Tribal.

>>47148360
Since he gives value from T1 without doing nothing. I've actually considered getting him at the helm of my monoblack deck, solely for the immense lifeloss and hate the deck gets.

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>>47148565
It wouldnt be very monoblack with an esper commander

>>47148360
I only hate that people think Oloro is overpowered. In 1v1 against an aggro deck yeah he's pretty good, but even over longer multiplayer games I've found his life gain largely irrelevant. If yoh go out of your way to build around him and use a lot of life gain triggers he's even worse; he's best at the helm of a generic Esper control or stax deck, and while those decks are pretty strong it has nothing to do with Oloro.

>>47148360
I don't hate him. He was my first EDH deck.

My friends all hate him and it's only because lifegain threatens them for some reason, even though it's the weakest mechanic in the game.

>>47148761
I dunno if it's worse than mill, since lifegain tacked on to other effects can be pretty good (see Nissa's Renewal in Standard).

Mill is just mill.

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>2016
>Not building oppressive control/stax lists that lock the board down and turn the game into an actual fun game of magic rather than combo player Russian Roulette.

My list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv-stax-lockdown-control/

(Very much still a WIP, feedback appreciated, hella fun to play, so many paths to victory - all of them slow 'n' grindy.)

>>47148701
It would be, as every card in the deck is monoblack, and all lands produce only black mana, not counting a few that produce colorless.
He would be there just for the lifegain, as I never usually cast my commander anyway which is Skithiryx, because games usually end before I reach big enough manas.

My group has said I play too much mono-red artifacts (Daretti and Godo) and has issued me a challenge to build something that isn't centered around artifacts. Now I don't know what to build.

>>47149671
Karador enchantress.

>>47149671
Skullbriar beatdown

>>47149671
Snake tribal

>>47149729
>>47149837
These sound fun. How would you do Skullbriar?

>>47149671
Athreos with Shadowborn Apostle

>>47149671
GWx Enchantress of any kind. Run just be sure to run Stony Silence if you have one. Your mana accel can come in form of Fertile Ground and cards like it.

I would suggest Uril but you already have a Voltron commander. Rubinia is cool though. You'll miss out on some artifacts that sac your own dudes (or in this case, theirs) but you still have Evolutionary Leap and the like.

Selvala can be a good Enchantress commander, though I personally beleive she's far better as a stax commander.

Ghave works as a Stax Enchantress, coincidentally that type of deck runs almost no infinites.

Daxos is a great pillowfort Enchantress and my current favorite since he can scale incredibly hard in the late game.

There are more candidates but those are the ones I've had experience with.

>>47145199
Continue to look weak as fuck so everyone ignores you, then you sneak a win.

>>47145199
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-05-16-tasigur-the-golden-fang-edh/

Yes, this deck does need ALOT of tuning, but at least you realized that. The first problem I see is theme. Do you think that Tasigur is the best general for what you want to do? There is an obvious sacrifice and filling the yard theme, so perhaps trying a GB general like Meren instead would help first? If you want to keep Tasigur (which is fine, he's still a great general), then you need to trim out some of the VERY suboptimal cards.

Stuff like
>Class of Wills
There are many cheaper and more effective counterspells out there. See: Counterspell, Swansong, Dissipate

>Hero's blade
This card really won't be doing much for the deck. Focus instead with more cards that fit the theme, like a token generator (Awakening Zone, Hornet Queen), or overrun effects (Overrun, OVerwhelming Stampede).

>Salvage Drone
It;s cute, but really doesn't do much. Sakura-Tribe Elder can provide the sacrifice and start ramping you.

>Sultai Skullkeeper
Doesn't really do much again. Saytr Wayfinder does what this guy can do better while giving you a land.

There's just too many more to cover. The really thing you can do is focus what you are trying to do with the deck. Cut cards that don't fit the theme and include more powerful cards that synergize with your sacrificing and recursion (Dictate of Erebos, Butcher of Malakir Skullclamp, Shriekmaw etc). You do have a start though and that's something there. Asking your group for help wouldn't be a bad idea either.

>>47148360
>So why do you guys hate Oloro so much?
He leads to very, very boring decks. I've seen a few really cool Oloro decks that use lifegain to trigger effects, and are actually pretty darn offensive.

>>47148876
>needing to use stax to make Magic fun

Sounds like you need a better playgroup.

>>47149671
Melek spellslingan/Storm
Talrand hard control
Seizan suicide
Kaervek slug

>play in meta with entirely Timmys and their big monster decks
>like to play a lot of control and combo, thinking of myself as a Johnny
>tfw I realized last night that I'm a Spike
>I'm the "that guy"

>>47150341
Do they enjoy playing with you? If so, just keep doing what you're doing.

If they don't, either tell them to git gud or power your decks down a little.

>>47150369
My decks aren't so much good as they are different. I win barely more than them, and that's honestly due to having actual control elements outside of the occasional oblivion ring. If anything my decks are among the least expensive, they just operate in such different ways.

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Daretti is too fun for his own good, holy shit

>sac a Thopter to get Prototype Portal back from the yard
>Imprint Darksteel Juggernaut
>put out a token
>Kurkesh is on my board so I can copy the Portal for 2 tokens
>Hammer of Purphoros is out so they have haste
>Unwinding Clock is out so I can do it on everyone's turn
>end up with an army of like 10 20/20 indestructible attackers by the time it comes back to me
>use Daretti's +2 and draw Glaring Spotlight, make them all unblockable

>>47150412
That Daretti precon is the best preconstructed deck Wizards has ever put out, it's such a fantastic base for fun, and even the vanilla version is a blast.

>>47149671
Enchantments. Azorius or Bant

>>47150422
My group has yet to catch on to how good artifacts actually are, so I basically got to be a kid messing around in a toybox for most of the game

They'll probably start packing artifact hate now

>>47150422
>durdle the deck
Unless you draw one of the few cards he can exploit the deck does nothing but draw lands.

>>47148360
>>47148428
>>47148471
But what if I build Oloro chair tribal?

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>>47150869
You become the chosen one of /tg/'s EDH threads and have powers you have only ever dreamed of.

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So, speaking of VROOM VROOM edition:

I took my new Xenagos deck out for a spin on Thursday.

>Game 1 vs Orzhov + Mono Black = I couldn't play anything because of destroy non-black creature effects.
>Game 2. Two-headed giant, me and Boros vs 2x Orzhov = We were on a ropes with 6 health, then I topdecked Nylea to give my Malignus trample and my partner topdecked Gisela. I swung in for 190 damage.
>Game 3 vs Mono black + Rhys = I obliterated Rhys early but I couldn't block a 24/24 Ob Nixilis with fear.
>Game 4 (same as 3) = I obliterated Ob Nixilis early. I had the damage potential in my hand to finish off Rhys, but I needed 2 green mana (just had one on the field and drew into all my colorless lands) and was swarmed the turn after.

Wow, Xenagos is a blast. But he definitely needs tuning. Rapacious One was a real MVP as 40 eldrazi spawn helped create a block screen and allowed sac for tons of extra mana. I think I need a few more token-producing hitters. I'm thinking Living Hive and possibly Myr Battlesphere? Maybe Giant Adephage instead.

>>47150869
Just play Atogatog and stop being so casual

Could it be reasonable to cut shocks in a 5 color deck for tri lands?

I am running into mana problems since I added more basics to not to have to scoop to even such fair cards are Wave of Vitrol.

It isn't that I don't have all 5 colors. That's usually not a problem, since I have a City of Brass or something normally. It is that sometimes I need two cast two spells, so it ends up being 3 white mana symbols.

>>47151006
Preferably the regular taplands, it's pretty good idea to have fetchable duals and having an option to use the mana before your next turn. Sometimes it just matters.

>>47150989
Xenagod looks cool. Is he just fatties all day?

>>47151006

3 of each basic (adjust these numbers if you're heavier on one color than another)
10 shocks
5 khans fetches

That leaves you like 6-10 land slots to do whatever, if even the khans fetches are too expensive for you, then you have more slots, if you can afford zendikar fetches, you have less slots

>>47151006

I recommend both chromatic lantern and prismatic omen

>>47151006

Tri lands would be bad to put in instead of shocks, but maybe filter lands could work since you said it's about getting multiple mana of one color after getting all 5 colors

>>47151204
Not who you're responding to but yes, it's fatties all day long. It's linear as fuck, but it's still really fun to smash people with Atarka, World Render and two extra combat steps.

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>>47148876
That picture has me at a loss for words

Reposting
Generally, how is Birthing Pod for a RG deck in EDH?
Does it make you too mouch of a target?

>>47151809
It's good, but you have to build your deck with it in mind.

>>47151809

As far as making you a target, I can't really see people being more upset than is required to try and destroy the birthing pod

I mean if you want an artifact that's good but don't want anybody to destroy it, I can't help you

If you can accept that, it shouldn't get you anymore hate than that

>>47147512
Ugh I made this post at 5 in the morning. What I was meaning to get at is I think mono colored EDH decks are great for getting people into magic after they get some basic introductory games. Getting a glimpse of the crazy stuff that can potentially happen in MTG beyond the boundaries of standard and intro decks seems to be a good way to "seal the deal" when trying to get someone hooked to Magic.

Many people try to introduce new players to MTG with green or red decks, but I believe black might be an even better color to intro with. It gets them used to stuff like removal, draw, creatures and their abilities, and using more than just mana as a resource. I feel kind of bad for people who get introduced into magic with all creature and ramp decks since they aren't exposed to what magic can really be like. I'd rather them start learning that their creatures are expendable early so the first time they get a wrath used against them they don't decide the game is no fun anymore and quit.

I think the way you introduce new players should somewhat reflect how your playgroup might play. If you have a playgroup that never runs removal or combos then you don't need to show the new player that side of the game early. If you know the player is going to be dealing with a lot of degenerate decks in the group then you should introduce stuff like combo and control as just another part of the game. Show them what they have to deal with and how to deal with it.

These are just my opinions though I guess. I just feel like most of the introductory products don't prepare new players for what lies in store for them unless they're playing with the most casual kitchen table sorts of playgroups.

jesus CHRIST i know it's a dumb meme around here but holy shit is craterhoof behemoth broken what the fuck
this fucking faggot keeps playing a bunch of creatures and then tutoring out his craterhoof and killing everyone at the table all at once, is edh literally just CHOOSE 1: PLAY CREATURES WITH CRATERHOOF OR 2: PLAY A MILLION FUCKING BOARDWIPES CUZ OTHERWISE CANCER BEHEMOTH IS GONNA COME AND SHOVE HIS GIANT FUCKING CREATUREDICK UP YOUR ASS

>>47152278
You could always play blue, friend. Or black or white.

>>47151871
This is one of the vaguer posts I've seen on this board.

>>47152295
Why not all three?

Craterhoof would eat shit.

>>47152329
>>47152278
Alternatively pick up a fucking torpor orb, they're going up in price for a reason. Shit is stupidly good if you're not running a high-etb deck.

>>47152295
hey you know, counterspells are cool and all, but not every blue deck i play is a draw go control deck ok? like fucking sue me for wanting to play a deck that taps out to play COOL THINGS that are sometimes CREATURES so i don't want to kill my own CREATURES by running like 10 different boardwipes ok?
like I have a hard control nobody is allowed to have fun deck, but that's not the only thing I ever want to play. is it so weird to want to be able to play proactive stuff and do things without FUCKING MR GREEN FAGGOT ASS LOL WEED LMAO OVER THERE BEING LIKE "HAHA ILL PLAY CREATURES AND THEN ILL PLAY CRATERHOOF AND WIN ON THE SPOT GG"

>>47152304

I was having trouble explaining my point

I guess what I mean is if you think that people using Krosan grip on your birthing pod is "making you too much of a target" then yeah it will do that

>>47152349

I'm not understanding

If nobody is playing control, you should be able to combo off before your opponent

You can't just complain that's he's doing big creatures better than you, adapt

>>47152349
Okay, this is clearly just an advanced form of the same stupid bait we get every thread, but I'd just like to say I'm impressed by the fact that you almost made a coherent, meaningful, point. Probably not intentionally, but hey I'll take what I can get.

>>47152349
>>47152278
I want this meme to stop. Even the Prossh/Derevi bitching wasn't this bad

>>47152349
>not every blue deck i play is a draw go control deck
Well there's your issue

>>47152382
>You can't just complain that's he's doing big creatures better than you, adapt
bitch that's EXACTLY what im complaining about
there's literally no reason to play creatures if you're not going to run craterhoof and literally 10 different fucking tutors for your craterhoof so you can instawin for free becaus ethis fucking faggot as stupid game is imbalanced as fuck and the edh fagcircle of decision making bans stupid shit like sylvan primordial instead of actually broken cards that make the format retarded like craterwin behemoth
FUCK
>you should be able to combo off before your opponent
I don't even know what this means, sure if I also run craterhoof behemoth and 10 tutors presumably either i play better than the other faggot running caterhoof behemoth and 10 tutors and win or they play better and win or variance decides or the one control player at the table counters whoever goes for it first and the other guy wins or who the fuck even knows edh is stupid why am I even here holy fuck anyone live in the vancouver, BC area and want to buy a piece of shit xenagos edh deck that can never win because you're not allowed to have fun in this game?

>>47152478
>no anon
>you are the cancer
Rage harder that someone is better at casting a fat guy than you are. Also that you can't seem to remember how Fog works.

>>47152478
>Come to these threads maybe once or twice a month
>Still this same craterhoof shit every single time without exception

Is it just the one person /tg/ or a couple people?

>>47152478

They need like 10 mana to tutor craterhoof and play it in the same turn

If you can't figure out some plan of dealing with by then, you have nobody to blame

Craterhoof is very good but no better than any other wombo combo, if your deck is simply not as good as your friends, that's unfortunate, but you have all the time in the world to adapt

Board wipes that kill your own creatures are not the only way to deal with craterhoof, if you're so averse to them

There's also effects like ghostly prison/propaganda, there's effects like spore frog and constant mists, there's effects like aetherize and cyclonic rift that don't wipe your creatures but wipe theirs

There's torpor orb effects, there's tainted aether or other stax type effects that can prevent your opponent from amassing a lethal number of creatures

If your argument is that craterhoof is especially hard to stop or especially easy to win with, I don't think you're going to find many sympathetic people here

>>47152584
Probably one person at a time.

Craterhoof is pretty commonly played so it I wouldn't be surprised if some different person came every couple of threads with a new experience.

>>47152603
>>47152584
Nah I think it's one guy. It probably started as a legitimate complaint and just ballooned from there, because it's pretty much the same shit every time

>>47152641

It's definitely more than one person because I'm not the latest guy complaining but I have in the past posted craterhoof stories

I don't complain though, I brag about how fun it is to do a bajillion damage

People still think I'm trying to get craterhoof banned though so it all feels like one person

>>47152595
>They need like 10 mana to tutor craterhoof and play it in the same turn
>summoner's pact evidently costs 3 mana
>birthing pod is evidently not a card
stopped reading there, it is already apparent you play with casual scrubs

>>47152538
>Rage harder that someone is better at casting a fat guy than you are.
yes, i am literally raging at the fact that there is 1 specific fat guy who instawins every game it resolves that makes every single other creature based strategy entirely pointless in comparison
literally casting regal force to draw your deck pales in comparison to the fact that you could simply cast craterhoof behemoth and win the entire game immediately
>cant seem to remember how fog works
oh yeah you mean that fog that always sits in our command zone and we can always play? like, what are you even saying you literal mongoloid lmao jesus christ. i guess you're trying to imply that everyone should run fog effects, which is kind of retarded so I don't really know what to say to that.

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Unearth is shitty

>>47152709

I assumed that all they had played was a few creatures and then tutored for crater hoof, that's how you made it sound

If you're letting your opponent have a birthing pod in play and a 7 drop to sac to it, it's hard to see how you're calling me a scrub, you've already lost the game at that point, craterhoof is irrelevant

Also regal force to draw your deck is OBVIOUSLY and UNDENIABLY more powerful than craterhoof

Craterhoof is answered by way more things

>>47152478
I won a game against Zegana player with Peacekeeper, he wasted all of his resources to remove it over and over, and I recurred it errytime.
Fucking play fog effects if you're too retarded to counter or wrath. I have won so many scenarios with Spike Feeder or the somali earrings I mentioned above.

>>47152349
Dear Sir:

In response to your commentary regarding EDH deckbuilding and metas, we were mildly distressed by the dichotomy you presented between "hard" control and Craterhoof Behemoth. On reviewing the evidence, we could not substantiate your complaint that those were the only options for the game, seeing as Craterhoof Behemoth is rendered mostly harmless by a number of strategies, few if any of which preclude the player or players not running Craterhoof Behemoth from resolving their own creatures.

Further, it seems you are unaware of both these potential counters and other avenues of play including but not limited to: Global damage prevention ("Fog" effects), Asymmetrical Mass Removal, Single Target ("Spot") Removal, Directed anti-specific-quality effects ("Hate" cards), proper procedure for the use of tactical countermagic in combined arms strategies and/or multiplayer environments, and what our analysts refer to as "Not overextending when you know you'll need to reset, faggot."

It is our conclusion that you are a Scrub. Normally, we would recommend a course of treatment, but in your case the condition appears to have advanced to the degree that conventional "Git Gud" procedures would be rendered ineffectual. As such, the diagnosis is terminal.

Sincerely,
Anon

>>47152755

Not really

It's very disappointing that you can't sac the creature and unearth repeatedly tho huehuehue

>>47152755
Why? I was going to build Sedris but I want to hear why Unearth is bad

>>47152837
The only way to really prevent your creatures from being exiled after unearth is used is to end the turn right? Like Sundial of the Infinite or something?

>>47152860
You lose your creatures when there are dozens of better ways to bring them back from your graveyard and still keep them.

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Is this guy any good?

>>47152894
Yes, only issue is how much he costs to throw on the field

>>47152866
Or phase them out. Teferi's Veil + Sedris = Fun Times.

>>47152894
Melek is alright. He makes a deeply enjoyable storm combo deck, if you're into that sort of thing.

>>47152912
I was about to post this.

>>47152912
Ah yes that's also very clever

>>47152910
Yeah that's my one hang-up on building for him. I do have a Godo deck and he costs the same, I never have trouble getting him out

>>47152921
That's sort of what I want to build, yeah. I haven't done a wizardmode/spellslinger deck in a long while.

>>47152761
>drawing cards is better than winning
jesus christ edh players are filthy i feel like i'm turning into a dirty peasant just reading this shit

>>47152763
>in response, wild slash you? gg?

>>47152815
>spot removal
>working vs craterhoof behemoth
can you at least read the card before posting retarded shit? jesus christ

>>47152912

That's a very cool interaction but correct me if I'm wrong, still doesn't let you unearth more than once right? Just lets you skip that "at end of turn" trigger, doesn't let you avoid the replacement effect "or if it would leave the battlefield"

>>47152952
Why read the card when I can just counter the spell and throw it into the graveyard before it even hits the battlefield?

>>47152952
>can you at least read the card before posting retarded shit? jesus christ
Never claimed you spot removed the behemoth.

You can suppress the board state, removing pieces and keeping them off the kill-swing for longer. But since I'm pretty sire your brain has hit 60% misguided rage by mass, you were probably incapable of seeing that.

>>47152992
Ending turn also doesn't stop that in most cases. It lets you swing with an unearthed creature (or ball lightning, for that matter) as many times as you want until someone actually goes to the bother of removing a temporary resource (or the veil, I suppose).

It also lets you board wipe second main with an aggressive team off in phaseland. Or similarly gives you insurance versus enemy wipes.

>>47153004
>countering a creature spell with doom blade
yeah ok anon, lol

>>47153007
hey well you also never claimed that your iq was above 50, but it's still apparent to me that you're a vegetable

>>47153045
You know Blue is a color is magic right?

Did you know that you can actually PREVENT spells from being used and creatures from even ENTERING the battlefield using a plethora of cheap Blue counterspells?

>>47153071
in response ill cast insist, gg?

So I'm thinking of building a Jeskai artifact deck. Any must-includes?

>>47149891
I think asking us how to build the deck is the exact opposite of the challenge you were issued, but hey man, you do you.

>>47153192
Response: Laugh at you because Insist doesn't work right in response.

If you used Insist properly, either counter that and Force of Will the craterhoof or laugh at you because I've got a fucking Ethersworn Canonist/Rule of Law/Arcane Lab and now you can't play any other spells, Craterhoof included

See anon? Other people can shitpost about magical christmasland too.

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>>47153192
>in response ill cast insist
gg indeed

>>47153192
>in response ill cast insist, gg?
Insist is a sorcery, can't respond with it.

2/10 got me to respond

>>47153258
>>47153264
>>47153270
>countering 2 things in 1 turn
nice magical christmasland
>in response, archive trap into craterhoof behemoth
gg?

>>47153270
The hillarious part is it wouldn't help even if you got around the sorcery restriction with Quicken or such.

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>>47153351
>in response, archive trap into craterhoof behemoth
If you say so. Good job, you milled my craterhoof! I hope you're very proud of yourself.

>>47153388
git gud, nerd

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Is this guy just token city? My friend just bought one as his first commander and I kind of want to help him out with building it

>>47153500
Not really, Purph is THE red token commander. It sucks, but Urabrask doesn't really do enough in EDh.

>>47152952
>>47153192
So your argument has devolved to the point where you think that there is no reason to try and stop his fucking Craterhoof because there are other spells that he might play that can stop you from stopping his fucking Craterhoof? This just in /tg/, cyclonic rift is shit because counterspell exists. Gaea's Cradle is bad since Ghost Quarter was printed. Holy shit you suck at magic.

I'd advise you to play cards like sadistic sacrament and jester's cap, but you'd probably just spew more horseshit saying, "I cast Riftsweeper, gg?" so instead I'll just ask you to fuck off.

>>47153549
>>47153500
To expand, Urabrask is excellent in EDH, but not from the Command Zone. Personally, he just doesn't bring quite enough. He's not a bad body and he has good effects, but they're just not top notch commander material. They're not terrible though, by any stretch of the imagination.

As for an Urabrask deck, I'd say he is either going to token swarm or haste tribal and swing hard and fast.

>opponent plays Kiki Jiki with an untap guy out
>makes 1000 hasted 2/1s or something
>rakdos charm deals 1000 damage to him

>opponent has blasting station and a creature that can endlessly recur from the graveyard
>"I infinitely loop for infinite damage"
>rakdos charm exiles the graveyard the first time the creature is in it

>opponent has combo teysa, bleeder, sac outlet is altar of dementia
>plays sac fodder
>in response, rakdos charm smashes the altar before the fodder hits

Every single BR deck should run this card

>>47153414
And we've hit a new low on the scale of argumentation, folks. We're below simple negation, passed that one a while ago. Ad hominem? I don't think calling someone a nerd on /tg/ even counts, it's about as hurtful as a whiffle ball thrown by an eight-year-old girl. We are all fucking nerds talking about nerd hobbies in a Japanese cartoon club. This? This is on par with the text a spambot posts to string together its product links into something that resembles but is not quite human communication. Except this isn't a spambot, and I'm not sure whether I should feel bad that continuing to follow up on the argument probably counts as picking on the mentally handicapped or whether this should be milked and preserved for future generations so that they have a clear model for what it will look like when a chimpanzee with a keyboard learns enough memetic strings to attempt actual discourse.

>>47152866
Or conjurer's closet. Or any other blink spell/permanent.

>>47153605
I agree completely

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>>47153388

>Playing Gisa
>tons of Zombies
>opponent casts Craterhoof
>more than enough to overpower my zombies and everyone else's creatures
>he swings for game
>kill Craterhoof with Victim of the Night
>Flash Necromancy
>Reanimate Craterhoof
>Block with my 17 26/25 zombies
>sac Craterhoof for 23 more Zombies
>swing with 40 4/3 zombies on my turn
>mfw

>>47153608
>tries to argue that craterhoof behemoth is fair, gets slam dunked
>has to resort to ad hominem
u mad bro? it's ok to be mad that you suck at logic.

>>47153666
Nice play, Satan

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>>47153673
>He considers non-sequiturs a "slam dunk"

OK bro. Who am I to break you from the dream world you've retreated into to avoid the realities of your existence on and off 4chan?

>>47153240
Well more for a general strategy and not "give cards pls"

Scavenge stuff and Valroz seem bretty gud with him

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Back in my day we just countered spells we didn't want hitting the field. And we didn't bitch and moan when we had no answer to a spell we didn't like because we tapped ourselves out or we didn't have enough counters in our deck.

>>47153790
>he mad
get dunked across, nerd

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>>47153872

>>47153826
Not every deck has blue in it, anon. I run blue but not in all my decks

>>47153921
>implying counters are only in blue

>>47153964
The vast majority of them are in blue. And if they aren't, they're color-specific hate cards like Pyroblast or Deathgrip

>>47154016
>lapse of certainty is color-specific
>mana tithe is color-specific
o k mr. anonymouse

>>47151204
I used to run Xenagod.

SUPER fun to play but the real challenge comes in the deck building because of how you have to time everything just right.

There's definitely a tempo to the deck you need to hit right, like any aggro deck really. The best creatures aren't like the guy you responded too's creatures but utility creatures like Savage Ventmaw and Elvish Piper

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/xenagod-dang-it/

I took it apart before it was really getting good. A lot of the Eldrazi are in my mono black deck now. I really need to update my decks on here.

calm thine butts /tg/, especially you mr. trollposter

anti-craterhoof-things (for dummies):
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=+[%22Instant%22]&text=+[counter]+![+1/+1]+![-1/-1]&color=+![U]
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?sort=cmc+&action=advanced&type=%20[%22Instant%22]&text=%20[prevent]%20[combat]

my favourite card for that purpose is dawn charm, its an auto include for white decks because all its modes are useful

>>47154147
>no craterwin behemoth
guess you enjoy losing huh?

>>47154131
And everyone can run Null Brooch. The problem is its not a very good card. And in EDH, neither are Dash Hopes, Mana Tithe, or most of the other nonblue countermagic. Lapse is kinda legit though.

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>>47154199
Boon ain't bad. You're all but guaranteed to see creatures cast and many of them have ETB triggers that are too dangerous to see the light of day.

Until you reanimate them yourself.

>>47154199
The red counters are pretty good. Many a game has been changed by a Burnout or Active Volcano

>>47154168
Never got around to picking one up. The deck got boring before I started buying new cards for it.

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This guy is neato in Talrand

>>47154237
oooh yeah, that one is pretty legit. I mean, it's a worse remove soul, but it's in black that normally doesn't have the option

>>47154237
>this card
your move, craterhoof behemoth shitposter

>>47154324
uh, i laugh at you because craterhoof behemoth is a creature spell, not a summon spell?
gg easy.

>>47154358
Oh, you're the "no oracle text" shitposter too?

I think I'll call you ThrunAnon, because clearly, you are the last troll.

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>>47154436

>ThrunAnon, because clearly, you are the last troll.

>>47146681
Summer is coming.

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>>47154436

>>47146651
Sometimes it's fun being the juggernaut on the table. Even better is when everyone colludes like crazy and they still can't beat you

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>>47154436

>>47145570
Kodamas reach and cultivate are bad cards.

>>47154872
In what world is ramping and guaranteeing your next land drop for three bad? Am I being baited?

>>47145848
I've been that blue deck.
I call it the "I'm hungry and don't want to pay for pizza."
Whoever covers my share of pizza that night has a personal counter monkey.

>>47155062
3 mana is better used doing something aside from getting more mana, especially since you can't use it that same turn. Maybe if the land came into play untapped they'd be good.

>>47145026
>run 1x Ulamog/Kozilek
>no more mill
What is the problem?

>>47147775
I have a nice dredge deck that works well on a budget as well.

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Post secret or dank techs

>>47153500

I see him as better in a Xenagod type Fattie deck, maybe ruric thar or something

Or maybe like in Aurelia beat down

He's very strong if you're a beat down deck because he makes it hard to block as well as giving you haste

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>gun crime has no correlation between the number of gun owners and number of crimes commited
>shitposting has no correlation between continental US daylight hours and the number of posters in his thread

Thread is worse than the modern general

Also is pic related mainboardable or is it better in the sideboard?

>>47155165
ok hotshot, what's an appropriate t3 green spell then?

>>47155275
>sideboard
>EDH

What the FUCK am i reading?

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>>47155206
Dankest

>>47155206
so pissed the oracle text is nontoken permanent

>>47155337
It does say card, and tokens are in no way cards.

>>47155316
Most leagues and alot of tournaments have 10 card sideboards

>>47155316
uh, have you literally ever actually read the rules of edh? you have a 10 card sideboard, you sideboard before game 1 after seeing everyones commander.
usually people put stuff like pyroblast or boil in their sideboard and bring them in if there are lots of blue players. it's a good way to keep the "control is a legitimate way to play the game" cancer in check, and i highly suggest it to everyone who plays edh.

>>47155515
That's a house rule

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What are some good cards for this guy? Seems bretty good for a hardcore control style deck.

>>47155515
>"control is a legitimate way to play the game"
Jesus do I love ass ravaging people with this attitude.

>>47155556
yeah same, their face when i cast silence on turn 5 and they let it resolve and then i boil them is always priceless. my motto is that if you're not gonna play fair, don't be mad if you get hated out.

>>47155612
Silence and Boil are control spells.

You are what you hate.

>>47155662
yeah sure
i guess xenagod fatties is also a control deck
cuz you control your opponents' life totals
kek

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Fires of Yavimaya or Hammer of Purphoros?

>>47155738
Hammer

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>>47155693
control spells are dishonorable

the only dishonorable spell is craterhoof behemoth.

>>47155515
what the fuck am i reading

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>having a sideboard for a casual card game format is a cardinal sin

>>47155908
the surprising part to me was the "control is cancer" part

>>47155316
>>47155887
You should really give up on trying to read it just doesn't seem to be for you, its ok, at least you tried...twice

>>47152894
I actually have a question about this guy: if you were to draw multiple cards, off of like a Divination or something, do you have to reveal the cards before you draw them?

>>47156247
yes. "Draw 5 cards" is identical to "draw a card" x5. Between each individual card draw Melek's "play with the top card of your library revealed" applies.

>>47156296
Oh neat, thanks

So could I cast any instants revealed in that window? Or do all the cards have to be drawn first?

>>47156312
While a spell is resolving nobody can cast spells or activate abilities (abilities can still trigger, but they won't resolve until the current spell is done resolving) so even though the game treats a Divination's "draw two cards" as "draw a card, draw a card" you can't do anything between the card draws.

>>47156358
Thanks mayne

Time to brew

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>>47155206
So glad I found this for the Glissa the Traitor deck I'm making right now.

>>47155275
>talking shit on the thing that makes me free

Get your crime/gun relationship bullshit out of here

>>47157036

That guy is pretty strong desu

>>47155310
Your general, yisan.
Or selvala.
Or have played nature's lore/three visits last turn and have 4 mana to start playing good spells.

>>47157333

I like to do turn 1 elf, turn 2 cultivate, turn 3 Karametra, turn 4 stuff, turn 5 win

>>47157357
Turn 2 cultivate is way better than turn 3 cultivate.
I'm not a huge fan of karametra, but she is one of the coolest of the theros block gods.

Where my monoblack bros at?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chainer-dementia-master-of-dementia/

Thinking of cutting Dark Petition and one of the planeswalkers.

What cards would you consider essential for tribal decks?

>>47157415
I'd say, in general, planeswalkers don't pull enough weight to be useful in EDH.
Their effects get used way less often, so getting a cards amount of value out of it is hard unless its tezz or teferi/daretti

>>47157295
Yeah, casting Spine of Ish Sah, sacing it with Priest, then doing it again is love. Even better if Priest is equipped with Thornbite Staff, then you can blow the entire field of creatures plus one permanent, getting all the death triggers so you literally haul your entire graveyard of artifacts back into your hand while Glissa is out...

>>47157470
I'm coming to that conclusion myself. I do like the flexibility Liliana of the Dark Realms has, though, and she flies under the radar more than Ob Nix because she "only gets Swamps." 2BB is also way better than 3BB.

>>47155275
Absolutely mainboardable. Fucks over control players so hard.

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I play Elric of Melnibonè in my black decks for shits and gigs just for the second ability, drop him down and grats someone is at 10 life

>>47157470
I like some walkers, but they definitely need to pull their weight. It's the big question of mattering as soon as they hit the board and having repeatable effects that matter.

>>47157444
Edhrec.com

>>47156225
While I also disagree with the statement, given that control is the only thing stopping combo run rampant, I can understand the opinion. Draw-go control tends to breed a special kind of "holier-than-thou" attitude among certain players who exclusively play the archetype.

>>47157444
Coat of arms
Obliesk of urd
Adaptive automaton
Maybe caged sun
Others depends on the tribe

>>47157796

its pretty much the exact opposite

ive never met anybody who "exclusively plays draw-go control"

yet ive met plenty of people with a holier-than-thou attitude about how they refuse to ever make a draw-go control deck

When everyone in ur meta plays stacks

>>47157864
Our experiences do appear very opposite, whilst I did say it happens, I never said it applied to every player. In my history of the game (roughly a month before Kamigawa), I've found the players who will literally only play permission to be the most insufferable of all, on par with a 12-year-old playing Sligh.

I suppose my experience has been tainted due to the frequency of mono-blue being piloted by our local 'that guys'.

>>47157910

well i mean its one thing to exclusively play blue control in a singular standard meta

thats not that strange, lots of people only play one deck during standard

ive never met somebody who knew enough about the game to play control and yet was such a fucking little faggot that he doesnt at least try the other deck types

i have no respect for anybody who doesnt try all the deck archetypes of magic

if you havent played control, combo, aggro then your opinions are literally irrelevant nonsense

>>47157878
Just play a sweet midrange general and you'll win.

>>47157470
It depends. I feel like if I use them as a 1 or 2-turn ability then they've done their job

>>47157987
That is literally the point I'm trying to make, that the attitude came from those who will only ever play one archetype and never expand their knowledge. The ones who buy into the blue flavour of being cleverer than everyone else and will sneer at someone who plays a 1-drop with aggressive stats.

I don't really belong to an archetype, I just make a deck once I see a card spoiled that I like (I played Jeskai aggro/combo during Khans Standard but now I play Orzhov control due to Westvale Abbey + Secure the Wastes).

Same goes with EDH, I just pick the legend I like and go from there. Playing Teferi Stasis and then being a dick to someone who happens to like Krenko is just childish. I'm glad that guy is gone from my town now at least.

Anyone here have a Zada list I could look at for comparison, I was thinking of making it mono goblins for more synergy.

>>47158097
I don't think that very many planeswalkers have super impactful effects that are worth the mana value if used only once.
The only exceptions are: Tezz, ugin, karn, and the two good pw generals.

>>47158200
Koth's -2 has put in me work for me over the last couple games I played

>>47157812
Don't forget Door of Destinies

>>47158200

in my azami deck i can usually cast Tamiyo and have it be worth the mana, draw 3 or 4 at least

unless i think i can make tamiyo live by using her plus on something, i almost always -2 first

and of course if shes livin, her ultimate wins the game

>>47150341
I've heard the terms Johnny and Timmy thrown around, but what is it all referencing? I've been playing magic for years, but never heard the story where these came from.

Building Gisa again

What are the must have zombie lords? I know I'm missing a few.

What are must have zombies?

>>47158648

mark rosewater came up with these divisions between the basic archetypal magic players

timmy likes haymakers, big creatures, big enchantments, he doesn't like playing small cumulative value spells to win

johnny likes combos, he wants to win through elegantly complicated yet simple synergies

spike will play literally anything that wins, he plays because he enjoys optimizing his decks and his playstyle

and of course we all have a little of each in us but these archetypes are supposed to be a decent approximation of certain things a player favors

>>47158648
Player psychographics are a thing MTG developers created to describe why people enjoy MTG.

There are three categories normally:

Timmy: Plays for the experience, stereotypically enjoying big plays such as Force of Nature or other fatties.

Johnny: Plays to express their creativity, stereotypically enjoys playing highly synergistic or even combo decks.

Spike: The earliest discussed psychographic (originally called, tournament player) plays for the challenge and to prove themselves better. Plays to win, stereotypically.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-revisited-2006-03-20

This is the article discussing it.

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Obligatory POST 'EM!

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>>47158730
>>47158751

Cool, thanks.

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>>47158772

we are much better friends outside of magic....

>>47157036

Jesus, old rules text was beyond dyslexic.

>>47151006
I play all 15 trilands in my Child of Alara deck. It can be a problem sometimes, but i play them because they're cool, and i usually can wipe the board if im in trouble anyway.

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>>47158883
Which one are you? Also...
>Sisay
>Ephara
>Zedruu
My niggas

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>mfw I got yelled at for using Nev's Disk with a Darksteel Forge out
I love artifacts

>>47159045
You better be running red with your artifacts or your not a true bro

>>47159057
Of course I'm running red, what kind of loser doesn't use mono-red artifacts

>>47159077
The ones who are still running red but use blue as well?
>tfw you're the niv artifact guy

>>47159000

none of those are me, i play Wort, the Raidmother token combo and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails equipment/hatebears, didnt feel like describing myself, i guess i could put pictures of my commanders in there too

the ephara deck is really really strong, its a blue white control deck with a flicker theme and he draws a lot of cards of ephara

the zedruu deck is kinda annoying to play with but kinda awesome too because he runs all the howling mine effects so everybody is flooded with cards

the sisay deck is really fun to play with ive played with it a couple times

>>47159102
Mono-red is for MEN

To dilute it with another color is to dilute its inherent manliness

>>47159107
Post em brother.
Would love to see the Eight and half tails list if you got it senpai.
I'm the Sisay guy in the other post. Shit's fun when you just play tutor shit legends for max fun times.

Who's the most fun person to play against in your group?

>>47159128
Sorry Dad...But I just like blue too much to not run it. And by that I mean I just like certain blue artifact cards like Muzzio and PW Teferi

>>47159174
I do like blue too. I've just been on a tear with a couple mono-red decks recently. Absolutely tore into my group last week, ended up 5-0. This week the streak was broken but not before I won another 3 games. Shit was crazy.

>>47159244
Damn dude. What mono red decks do you have? Which is your favorite?

>>47158883
Proshh sounds bro

>>47159148

this is 8 1/2 tails
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stone-forged-army/

the sisay guy runs mostly strong legends, not shit ones, lol, and usually wins by casting seedborn muse with some kind of protection set up for it like mother of runes + ghostway, and then by the time it comes back to him, he's played all his green legendary creatures with yeva natures herald

the most fun person to play against is a tie between blue, yellow, and sorta green

yellow is a really funny dude and i enjoy his extreme political style but the problem is it makes red and gray extremely salty, both his style and the fact that he plays prossh who is broken

green is totally fine in 1v1 but cant stand waiting for 3-5 other people to play their turns so he literally sleeps in multiplayer

>>47159244

>beating your playgroup 8 straight times without realizing your opponents decks are not on the same competitive level as yours and you should play something on their level

>>47159357
Maybe they were very very very close games?

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>>47159328
How do I not have Yeva's Herald or Seedborn Muse in this deck holy shit. Thank you sir for letting me know what to buy next for EDH!

So is red the one you just hate? Because he seems like he makes games shit.

That list is solid. Love the Angel of Jubilation in there.

>>47159357
>not wanting to just have your group get on your level by creating an arms race with your 5-0 deck

You can just fuck right off fggt

>>47159259
Daretti, which is a barely modified precon that I break out for goofier stuff/low-power games but it can still put in work

I also have Godo which is my favorite and the source of most of my wins

>>47159395
>>47159395
There were a couple blowouts but for the most part they were close. Slugfests all around

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>tfw usually know what kind of stuff I want to use for decks but land bases are tough to put together

I feel like the mana base is always the toughest thing for me to put together

>>47159513

i dont understand

what could go wrong

you put some basics and whatever brand of duals you can afford

adjust it a bit if the amount of spells of each color you have arent equal

>>47159550
I am a simple man

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R8 H8 Masturb8

Does anyone else hate fetches because of all the shuffling? I get it in decks like Mazirek, Titania, Gitrud and whatnot, but for other decks, I find the idea really bleh.

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>bring new deck last night
>tell everyone it's a pillowforty deck that exists to let the table draw tons of cards and do cool shit with their decks they never thought possible
>when secretly it's a tax/mill deck
Resolving a Forced Fruition while Font of Mythos, Howling Mine and Well of Ideas are already on the table is a magical feeling. People were regularly drawing 16 cards a turn and couldn't cast shit because of tax effects

>>47160037
Fetches are like. The second best lands. Outside of og duals.

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>>47159128

>Mono-red is for QT girls
>FTFY

>>47160585

theres no denying that

great with sensei's divining top too

i do agree with the other poster though, the shuffling is annoying when my manabase is already fine in edh two color decks

>>47160037
I just mash shuffle, so it doesn't really take me that long each time, even when I have a crucible/loam + fetch rolling.

>>47160585

i think they might be better than OG duals

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Ideas on something different for my next list?

>>47160643

when i play yisan im shuffling multiple times a turn, i learned to turboshuffle, one mash, one cut

>>47160651

you dont have much blue and no 2-color decks (my fave) so maybe Ux I recommend, the only archetype you dont have represented is control so that works out nicely with Ux, BUT if you dont like control theres still probably stuff you havent done in Ux, depending on how blue your jeleva deck is

you also only have the one green deck so maybe UG?

or just mono green, mono green is cool

>>47160731
I would go U/G but my mate already has a strong U/G.

My first commander deck was Vorinclex, so maybe a return to mono green would be cool. I always like the art of Maro-Sorceror.

Is Keranos any good?

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>>47160651
Mono blue squid tribal with thoughtlace effects

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>>47160669
>mfw I watch my friend play a whitemane lion over and over with Karametra and a Soul of the Harvest in play, and the fluidity with which he shuffles

>>47160618
I can't sexualize Zada sorry senpai

>>47160786
What's thoughtlace?

>>47160669
There's no way one mash + one cut is sufficiently randomized.

>>47160784

keranos is one of my favorite options for RU, not as gnarly as a combo/spellslinger enabler as mizzix or melek, but more resilient as a controlish commander

i just like the gods because they are so difficult to remove and usually have pretty solid abilities

>>47160820

why not?

do you think i memorize the card order as i look through my library?

the mash is almost purely for show, i dont change the order of my cards as i tutor, i just look one by one til i find the one and slip it out

after that, a cut is sufficiently random because all that matters is that my topdeck is random, the order is sufficiently random from the original shuffling i did to start the game

>>47160821
I love the gods aswell, I'm eventually going to build Erebos STAX when I get the money as a counterpart to my Heliod.

I feel like one could actually make Phenax work if they were so inclined.

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>>47160813
Old core set cycle that changes a targets color, along with the kektacular sleight of mind

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What deck strategy do I build around with this commander?

Milling like Dimir, Golgari recursion, or Simic ramp?

>>47160848
You need at least 7 mashes to be random.

>>47160850

edh general hates on mill too much, there are big weaknesses to the strategy, specifically graveyard based decks, but there are also great answers to graveyard based decks

mill is especially good against toolbox decks, if they are going to play with their whole deck as options, then each card you mill actually hurts their options in the present, whereas normally mill doesnt have an immediate effect on a player

i think the main thing to keep in mind with mill is that you have to supplement it with things that synergize

reanimating your opponents things and casting their spells, exiling their graveyards, looking at their topdeck so you can mill away cards you dont want in their hands

>>47160927

sure, but what makes the cards unrandom?

>>47160820

if you're tutoring every turn, sometimes multiple times, you only see the top 1-5 cards of your library between shuffles, so why does the deck need to be randomized anymore than a cut really?

the order should be random from the start of the game, nothing makes it unrandom unless youre memorizing the card order, which doesnt really work if youre shuffling every time you see 3 new cards anyway if you tried

>>47160970
Suppose I crack a fetch and the land I am looking for is 10 cards down. So, I mash once and then offer a cut. Suppose that throughout play, I actually end up drawing one of the cards I happened to see when fetching last time. Now you have a fairly good idea of what cards you might draw after that point.

I know no one actually memorizes this stuff, but even on an subconscious level, you might pick up on this.

And that's not even getting into the realm of other library manipulation alongside tutors.

I'm not the kind of guy who makes you shuffle after every Mind's Desire, but this is different.

>>47160920

Literally anything

>>47161035
If you are tutoring multiple times in a turn, then yeah, you don't have to shuffle each time as long as you don't ponder or something in the middle of it.

But otherwise, it is clearly horseshit.

>>47160970
A single half-assed mash and cut isn't going to somehow erase the knowledge of the general location of specific cards and the cards around them you see while digging through your deck unless you have the memory of a goldfish.

>>47160920
Control/Banana Man shell I think

>>47158706
Lord of the Undead, Cemetery Reaper, Undead Warchief, Risen Executioner, and Mike are the lords in my Gisa deck.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gisa-gisa/

>>47161038

>I know no one actually memorizes this stuff, but even on an subconscious level, you might pick up on this.

that just hasnt been my experience, also *subconscious* knowledge of my deck? does that even make sense?

youre right about library manipulation plus tutors warranting more shuffle, but i dont scry very often when im playing yisan, i adjust my shuffling to the amount of times i shuffle and how much of my deck i see between shuffles

>>47161057

well dude, if you read the original post, i said specifically when im tutoring multiple times a turn i turbo shuffle

goddamn

i never said i start the game with one mash and a cut

>>47161068

why not?

the cut means any card whose position i remember, if the number of those cards is even >1, could be literally anywhere in the deck after the cut

not to mention you dont see your whole deck every time you tutor, the card may be in the first few cards you look through

>>47161099
>>47161118
Oh, people make you shuffle during the same turn?

Like, if you have Yisan and a Thousand Year Elixir, you don't have to shuffle at all in that case. You can just put the library down after that.

But after that turn, I would do a complete shuffle. Though honestly, I'd probably never enforce it. I've seen some pretty half ass shuffles and held my tongue.

Anyway, by subconscious, I meant like gut feeling of the likelihood of a certain draw. Never mind. Not important.

Anyway, either way, fuck fetches. If I have to run 5 of them to make my deck work (which honestly, I'm not even sure that would fix my problems), I'll start doing that, but ugh. Not excited for that.

Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and run more basic land tutors. I am currently running 5 signets and I think that's stupid. I hate cascading into those fuckers.

>>47161136
Sure, but you know where it is relative to other cards in your deck unless you deliberately try to ignore that info.

>>47161160

the reason i shuffle between tutors in the same turn, is because often i draw a card result of playing that card i tutored for

thats why i end up turbo shuffling because all that matters is that my topdeck is random for my upcoming draw, they are just going to get reordered again very soon

>>47161177

if i can even remember a single pair of cards that were definitely near each other when i looked through my deck last, theres still only a very very small chance that i draw one of those before the deck is mashed and cut again, or realistically 3-4 times more

its never come up once, i can tell you that

you may *think* its not sufficiently random but as a point of fact, its literally never been insufficiently random, if we are judging sufficiency by the facts of the games ive played

ive never once drawn a card and successfully predicted upcoming draws due to lack of shuffling

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>>47158772
I'm blue.

>>47161341

>dromar the banisher

.....

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I think I stumbled on an infinite mana combo in my karn deck. Does this produce infinite colorless mana? Pic related

>>47161616
The Pincher is not an artifact.

>>47161616

you need mycosynth lattice to make the tokens artifacts

>>47161641
Oh my god .

What the fuck is a pincher anyways?

>>47161605
Esper dragon tribal.
Come at me.

>>47161671
It's a kind of dog
I'm sure that's what they meant when they made this card

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>That moment when the reset button is pressed 5 times in one game through three Cyclonic Rifts, The Great Aurora, and Planechase card and the UG player comes out on top everytime

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>Playing pic related in my jhoira deck
>lol nice 2 damage fag from an opponent
>cast suspend time stretch with exiled geistblast
>ill take 4 turns bro
>untapped mana and a hand full of counterspells
You got Trumped

>>47157036
>Spine of Ish Sah

yw

>>47162240
I put this in my Shu Yun BURN IT DOWN deck.
Much fun.

>>47150341
Timmy's will literally call anyone who doesn't play garbage a spike

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>>47158772

>>47159057
>>47159077
Blue artifacts with Arcum Dagsson > red artifacts

>>47162797
This guy gets it.

>>47163054
>>47163054
>>47163054

New thread

>>47150989
source on that anime?

>>47162317
Fuck yeah, Spine of Ish Sah. Now imagine Priest equipped with Thornbite Staff...

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>>47158772
Still out of date. But I'm too lazy to update it.

>>47155165
I like them in the end game, so I get to shuffle and thin my deck, and if it's necessary, I can check what cards I have left worth tutoring or for Pod.

>>47155515
Control is one of the only ways to play the game tho, if we're talking about more competitive meta.
In my experience, only winning strategies are stax, combo and control, where stax and control are pretty strongly intertwined, and usually combo deck run some kind of control spells, so you can protect your combo pieces.

>>47155546
Bubble matrix

>>47155738
Fires, definitely.
Harder to remove and second ability is more relevant usually.

>>47157730
It makes me sad that you can't force opponent to scoop anymore during mindslaver effects

>>47157987
I have in my meta one guy, who has two decks, grixis control with Tresserhorn at helm and monoblue control with Talrand. He has netdecked them both, since he has no imagination and his only desire is to win

>>47159057
I run monoblue artifacts with Memnarch..
Then again I had Boros artifacts with Mr. Muscle metalcraft anthemtokens

>>47161341
>Da ba dee dabba da-ee
but seriously, you like dragons, don'tcha

>>47162797
I don't know man. Arcum kinda got boring to me. It's like playing with hacks or something in a video game, too easy. I feel like he'll get banned eventually, so I'm going to keep playing Daretti, and maybe try to build Muzzio.