Warmachine Hordes General

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>>47125389
First for Cygnar OP in Mk3 and Skorne still being Yamcha-tier.

Skorne is Dead edition

>>47125389

I claim this thread for Minions.
Your mom isn't a real faction.

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>>47125553
You misspelled Menoth you bacon-to-be

Is 3rd edition out yet? I'm interested to see if it changes enough to get me into the game.

I've always liked the aesthetic, but the rules never quite spoke to me. (Or maybe it was the playerbase around me, hard to say)

>>47125423
HYPE FOR CYGNAR

>>47125613
no, they're like june 28 or something in june.
The core rules aren't overly changing (except completely free-whenever-wherever premeasuring is in), so you likely won't like it now if your problem was with those.

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>>47125389
MK3 you say?

>>47125629
>The core rules aren't overly changing (except completely free-whenever-wherever premeasuring is in), so you likely won't like it now if your problem was with those.

Actually, the core rules seem to have some pretty big changes thus far.

>>47125613
Not out until next month

>>47125673
did I miss something? premeasuring and army size where the only things I had heard were changing. also some time skip in the fluff.

>>47125629
Core rules are getting big changes, like not needing to start the turn in the rear for back strikes, and ROF changes, and power up, and spirit bond, and changing bondings, and all kinds of shit

Also the new rules are out june 12th

>>47125673
The actual rules that move the underlying game? Like 2d6 RAT vs DEF to hit, igougo, strict action (move -> shoot), etc?
Or are you just referring to "beat back operates differently" and other little things?

>>47125704
Oh yeah. Those are all fairly core, I guess.

>>47125732
Things like Back Strikes only requiring back arc instead of starting activation in back arc sort of things.

>>47125424

Nothing so far says anything that contradicts that Skorne Constructs are what you'll want to be playing.

It's going to be the age of the Zaals.

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>>47125424

>>47126328
as someone who doesn't play the game and doesn't know shit about it beyond what the factions are in basic terms, why is skorne salt at the moment?

>>47126426
No real good reason. Cataphracts seem a little bad, but no cards have been shown.

>>47126426
A lot of our really, really good stuff got hit hard with a nerf bat.

>>47125748
That will make Kayazy legit dangerous after their charge. If they keep both parry and backstab.

>>47126516
Who cares about parry?

Walk those fuckers through a unit with acrobatics minifeat and backstab the shit out of everyone.

>>47126426
>as someone who doesn't play the game and doesn't know shit about it beyond what the factions are in basic terms, why is skorne salt at the moment?

Skorne has always struggled because their only really effective options have mostly involved a combination Bronzeback/Molik Karn, supported by Paingivers and medium based infantry and a handful of casters. Almost everything else was situational/trash.

They pretty much reduced the more overpowered parts of aforementioned models and buffed the situational/trash stuff and revamped many of the casters. The idea is that Skorne becomes less of a one trick pony by relying stuff other than what was monstrouisly awesome in Mk2.

But several people are upset because the same combos and models they used in mk2 don't look like they'll be as overwhelming powerful an option in mk3.

I'm just glad Ferox don't suck now.

>>47126699
They weren't overwhelmingly powerful. Skorne is consistently khador tier, barely above ret. They have always underperformed. If those combos were actually overpowered we wouldn't be at the bottom.

>>47126748
I would argue that Molik were some of the most consistent assassinations in the game, but the problem was that was the only thing they put on the table. When you knew what you were dealing with coming in, yea, it was pretty easy to counter it.

Ideally, they might lose the sheer power of the Bronzeback and Karn, but gain a lot of versatility they never had before.

What I'm hoping to see is that Skorne get the playstyle they were always intended, a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing.

Skorne were always meant to lose a lot of their army, but they were intended to be able to come back from this with the powerups they got from losing those troops. Of course, the faction never worked this way for a lot of reasons, but it would be nice to see them actually get to do it.

I'm glad that I kept this general alive for awhile. I'm hyped for Mk 3 as a cryx player because it will be nice to run spider jacks and not feel terrible about it. I might start Cephalyx for shits and gigs because they seem fun.

>>47126784

They also lost paralytic aura, that's not nothing.

For a counter-intuitive reason, too- it had become an auto-include. The most sensible thing about skorne list design that I've seen is that when given melee-army that is fighting technological ranged armies, the first thing everyone does is get themselves some inertial-sump warbeasts.

>hell, kreas are probably the most requested warbeast-type for the Army of the Western Reaches, with every dakar screaming for as many as they can get

Seemed sensible and appropriate.

>>47126748
>They weren't overwhelmingly powerful. Skorne is consistently khador tier, barely above ret. They have always underperformed. If those combos were actually overpowered we wouldn't be at the bottom.

They were overly powerful in that they were stupidly powerful in and of themselves. What made Skorne less competitive overall is that almost nothing else could compare to those models.

Just like Mercs have lots of under-performing models, but don't act like Galleon and Earthbreaker aren't fucking sick compared to all other colossals and most heavies.

>>47126582
That's once per game, and just as much damage as charging. You generally try to use the acrobatics to reach the second line. Now you can be as dangerous every turn

>>47126893
Yea, but aura seems like a causality of the wider game. Most easy buffs, both offensive and defensive, are getting hit pretty hard.

Personally, I still think Razor Worm looks a lot better, though I hope like hell it picks up something offensively. A 17/19 warbeast is pretty hilarious for the opponent to remove.

>>47126909
And so the solution was to take all that away, as well as our heavy infantry and our aradus sentinels, to replace them with a ferox buff and void spirit buff?

>>47126955
Yes. And those are the only buffs Skorne will get, too!

>>47126955
The sentinel lost three inches of range, if you had farstriked them. They gained one otherwise. They're still far from shit. Plus we haven't seen all the cards, keep the salt in the jar till then.

>>47126955
The thing about it is man that you don't know what that shit has gotten.

Heavy infantry is a good example. We have no fucking clue what Acuraii are going to get. Given how poorly Drag went in terms of being used, I'm betting they pick up something totally new, or some ability to drag even bigger models.

On the heavy infantry side, you've heard nothing about their new stats or abilities beyond a box and def decrease.

>>47126955
Heavy infantry got nerfed across the board. Which made sense, because people only took single-wound infantry to jam stuff, unless it had all kinds of delicious special rules. It looks like single-wound infantry is going to be decent now, and it also looks like they're working to get rid of Skornergy, at least from mkIII Mordikaar. I'm cautiously optimistic. Maybe my swordsmen will see the table with their sexy new models now.

I just hope Zaabest stays about how he is, because it's fun to shoot lizard dogs and tiny bugs at people.

>>47127002

New anon. I've made a list with an unfarstriked sentinel... once. Not kidding. Real learning experience. 3 inch move mattered in ways you didn't expect.

>>47127034
You mean the swordsmen that got more expensive while nihilators got less expensive?

>>47127036
Perhaps their movement speed will be changed? Are their rules out yet?

>>47126955
>And so the solution was to take all that away, as well as our heavy infantry and our aradus sentinels, to replace them with a ferox buff and void spirit buff?

And buffs to Warlocks, and Razor Worm and Rghinodon, and Cannoneer, and the Gladiator, and your Siege Engine, and Immortals, Bloodrunners, and Praetorean swordsman, etc.

And all the other totally crazy crap in other factions got nerfed as well.

Long story short, Skorne no longer begins and ends with Bronzeback/Molik Karn and Med based infantry.

>>47127072
And have you ever wondered if there might be a reason for that?

>>47127121
>And buffs to Warlocks
Like? Sure, maybe eMorghoul. Everything else we've seen have been neutral changes.

>>47127121
Remember that time they took all of Makeda1's good spells and took them out behind the building and shot them?

\>>47127183
Remember that time they gave Makeda the tools to force even emptry THR7 enemy warbeasts to take a frenzy check needing a 4 or less?

>>47127161
If Menoth, Convergence, Skorne and some of the other smatterings of soul collection come in more to the fore, then Mordy is going to be a monster against them.

>>47127195
With no Arc-node? Sure.

>>47127247
If it's a RNG10 spell, then Marketh can easily do it for her.

>>47127247
There's Marketh. He had his balls chopped off and is useless for 99% of applications he was once a godsend for, but this is the one thing he can actually do.

>>47127261
Which is the ONLY spell he can cast for her. And against >50% of the factions it does exactly nothing, meaning he does exactly nothing.

>>47127270
He can also help her manage all her upkeeps as well.

>>47127277
Except manage her upkeeps, which is something she really wants.

And again, this is assuming Marketh doesn't have other shit they haven't talked about to support casters.

>>47127310
The only thing that they said was he didn't have his own spell. I bet he's got a decent gun tho. I never understood why he didn't have the same eye laser that all the other extollers got

>>47127751
What amazes me the most about Marketh is that everyone is just assuming that the nerf is going to be applied to his Mk2 version wholesale, without changing a single other thing about them.

Like PP went "Yep, this model is not pretty much useless, but fuck it, let's just ignore him."

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>>47126748
>mfw you think skorne > ret

ret has always been good, but started consistently placing top 3 in many international tournaments in 2016.

I've heard the next insider is Retribution, but I hope they put up Protectorate instead.

The posters in this thread are showing signs of serious hypernatremia.

>>47130185

ret on monday

>Working on Retribution jack
>Airbrush it a soft off blue
>Looks good
>Paint gems purple
>Looks good
>Take photo and it's all washed out and looks shit.

THANKS OBAMA

>>47126476
From PP_soles.
>There is another piece of the puzzle. You can gain back strikes by just being in a model's back arc. Where you started from does not matter any more. Pair that with a model that has easy access to a place effect and, well... Who needs +1 MAT?

Stuff like Ferox's jump or Molik's sidestep is now even more disgusting.

Skorne babbies cry about everything. They could literally get a model that has "Action: kill the enemy warcaster or warlock and score 5 CP" and they'd still bitch about it.

>>47131142


They'd bitch that models threat range is too limited and it's so hard to deliver

Am I the only one who is hoping Stormfall archers lose their triple shot and just have 1 shot type now? Just give them a burning AOE that boosts damages against large based models bit by it.

>>47131334
y

>>47129288
some >implications from the story
>argii have Assault
>Tanith has: some kind of AoE rooting damage debuff spell, primal shock? some kind of warbeast-based damage spell
>purebloods Ghosting through things to get backstrike bonuses is OP

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Finished my objective markers in honor of mk3. Its silly really, have played all thorough mk2 since the release, and still havnt playd a game with painted objectives....

>>47130414
Mine are green and tan, with a really light blue for the gems. Try taking a picture with the 'jack on a white surface with a sheet of paper behind it, and move a lamp over it to give it some soft light.

>>47131247
>models threat range is too limited and it's so hard to deliver
I'll give you the Karn delivery, but with Makeda his threat is basically unchanged.

>>47131820
When she grabs the two khadorans with roots, it's apparently not a spell, going off the author's comments im the thread. People are speculating it might just be a ranged attack, since she used her staff to do it.

>>47132231
Skorne players aren't complaining about Molik. He just won't see play with non-makedas anymore. We complain about the titan nerf and the sentinel nerf.

Like, you have to understand that the aradus sentinel was Skorne Ravagore. It was defining our ranged game, it and the incindiarii completely turned our ranged game around, from complete crap to highly competitive. Losing ancillary attack, and having our speed 3 heavy lose 3 inches of range, has severely reduced its effectiveness. Without a large point drop it's going to struggle seeing play. While I didn't see any similar nerf to Legion's ravagore?

>>47132511

We haven't really heard much about the Ravagore though.

>>47132511
Lylith2 changes are Ravagore stealth nerfs, she's supposedly back to being an infantry warlock like she was in Mk1. Plus we haven't seen the Ravagore card or heard much about it, if you've got an exclusive inside scoop by all means share it with us.

Also, as much as you might not want to hear it, Skorne isn't supposed to have crazy ranged game. You aren't supposed to have a Ravagore, you just got it in the last days of Mk2 because they decided not to impose a harsh Snipe tax on the gunbug since it wouldn't matter for long anyway.

>>47132577
We know it's speed 5, we know it got a bite attack. I've seen references that it lost the fire animus but is now AoE 4 but can't find the original sources, so I'm not sure if those are true.

>>47132622
By last days of Mk2 you mean 2 years ago? It was released in Exigence, the models just weren't out for a year.

>>47132649

>I've seen references that it lost the fire animus but is now AoE 4 but can't find the original sources, so I'm not sure if those are true.

Yeah, I've heard some weird unsourced rumors saying it lost scather and got Creeping Barrage, but I'm not sure if they're true or not.

>>47132473

So? Your beasts are still better than any basic Jacks out there, simply because of the Fury stat compared to Focus.
Horde players are so disgustingly spoiled with this stat, and all the things it can do, that they cannot see it any other way.

Don't get me wrong, I have some hordes as well, but when I play them I'm like "huh.. not that great", until I try playing Jacks again after a long break. Focus is so bad its embarrassing when comparing the two.

If you look at it on a scale from 1-10, 10 being best, beasts in general has gone from a 7-8 in usage (due to being Fury driven and having access to all kinds of animus and shit. Not to mention an absurd amount of initials) to a 5-6. And jacks, former 2 on the scale, has with the recent buffs been brought up to about 3-4 in usage, but lets not forget that privateer is making us use these jacks now, with the extended jack points.

So stop complaining about your pretty beasts, that how ever you put it, stomps Jacks for breakfast. And only reason a Warmachine team was the top dogs for so long was OP casters and infantry, now thats fixed.

>>47132741
Jacks were so bad they had to make them free to get people to play them.

That's all you really need to say.

>>47132741
And in Mk 3 they still cost more, and frenzying is more likely, and fury management was removed. And then they get stat nerfs on top of that.

>>47132772
they're not free though

They're forced. Taking a chunk out of your actual points now

>>47132772

Well.. basically yes, this is what I wanted to say. And even then its questionable on how the balance of the game will be thrown about because of this.

>>47132797
so don't use more frenzy then the caster can take!

Machine doesn't even have that option!

I'd like to see exemplar errants nerfed or other PoM buffed. I mostly play against my friend and all he uses are EE and they really shut down anything cool I can do in circle. No berserk attacks, no collecting hearts, WM really hurts my beasts, and with hunter, blessed, magic bows they shoot up all my small shit. Plus these heavily armored knights have pathfinder and spellward.

I just want to see something else on the table when fighting PoM.

>>47132804
Which then would mean, thanks to power up, you get more focus on jacks than we get fury on beasts.

>>47132797

>cost more

Remains to be seen

>Frenzy is more likely
> Fury management was removed

This is partly true. Beasts never really Frenzied before in mk2 at all so how much is "likely" in the terms of Privateer press? They have stated that they hated the result in mk2 where there was literally NO drawbacks of beast running on red, as no one cared anyway.
All they have stated now is that you will actually have to think for a change before boosting all attacks, and doing shit a Jack could only dream of.

>Nerfs

Yes, because Fury 5 with 4-5 initials is FUCKING INSANE when you compare it to just about ANY Jack in the game! When you get brought down to 4 Fury, and loosing out an initial your all like "WHAAAA My beasts suck now!". Your still miles ahead of Jacks, get it?

>>47132823
1 point is not 4 native to certain beasts. I don't get to retroactively decide and if I'm wanting to throw away a jack I don't get to fill him up without care

>>47132823
Power up is a stream, it will always just trickle there.

Fury is a dam. When you need it you can open and smash anything with the power you get.

I can run a bunch of light jacks and spam you to death with my trickle, but you can use heavy beasts I can hardly hurt and when you get to me just smash my shit into the ground with your turn of 20-30 fury.

>>47132823

Power ups gives a focus now, just like most teams for Hordes has models that can remove a Fury, this is exactly the same thing, except the fact that Fury still is a better stat than Focus.
And you can still tank up as many fury as you want with just about any beast, at any given moment.

So stop complaining about your beasts getting worse, your still better than Jacks, even with the recent changes.

>>47132913
It's not exactly the same thing, since warmachine also has power booster on top of that which is a direct correlation to condition.

Also, in Mk 2, junior casters are objectively better than lesser warlocks, remains to be seen if that's true. And then there's jack marshals which are up in the air and have no real hordes equivalent.

>>47132943
I always felt nyss shepherds were those, they could force beasts in their command range outside of warlock control and remove fury/heal

>>47132741
>So? Your beasts are still better than any basic Jacks out there
And they weren't broken. Maybe the jacks needed a buff instead of a nerf to beasts.

>>47133088
>And they weren't broken.
Weren't they?

Remove "HEY BRO I HEARD YOU LIKE BANES" and other such bullshit OP infantry tactics from the Warmachine side and take another look at where that puts Mk2 warbeasts.

I started with khador because I wanted to brick up with heavy infantry and heavy jacks, just being a great wall of metal like khador was advertised to be. I quickly learned that is the opposite of how khador actually plays, then later started skorne because they did that concept far better.

Now skorne is losing its heavy infantry, the beasts aren't as durable either. My khador is getting some improvements but the biggest change to manowar is just that their boxes aren't nerfed like everyone elses. The game has to significantly shift towards attrition and khador has to get better jack delivery options for it to actually play closer to the way it was advertised and to the way I played skorne.

>>47133116
Are you seriously telling me the Bronzeback was OP? Sure, it kills any model it touches, but that's Skorne's thing. Or used to be. And it does nothing else. Now it's really just a worse Gladiator.

>>47132473
>He just won't see play with non-makedas anymore.
IDK mayne.
If he keeps fatewalker then he still might be really usefull

why are all the Skorne players so fucking whiny? We have an even mix of every faction and not a single other faction is constantly crying.

>>47133116
>if you ignore how good everything you competed against was, this thing that let you actually compete is totally OP

And Skorne still had to deliver a SPD 4 model with no reach. Which can be done, but requires at least another 8 point model. And everybody KNOWS the Bronzeback is a threat, so they're going to do their damndest to kill it before it gets there.

>>47133227
They were a meme army and they lost their two memes
>apply bronzback to face XDDDDDDDDDD
>play chain gang/fist of halaak/other tier list because list building is hard :(

>>47133227
We were a mid-low tier faction. Now we are getting nerfs. Go figure.

>>47133435
And also buffs where some of your infantry will be able to tear through enemy infantry with anatomical precision.

Remember if everything else takes nerfs then your "average" stuff may become "good"

>tfw cocfag
>tfw you know your lilguys gonna get fucking deleted with MkIII

>>47133435
Just because Skorne were mid/low doesn't mean what's getting nerfed was mid/low as well.

Molik assassinations were the most consistent in the entire game, and Bronzebacks could kill absolutely anything they got too. Both were incredibly powerful, and needed to go for the other shit in Skorne to get buffed.

I mean, take this as a sign that your other shit is getting buffed. Legion got hit with some pretty insane nerfs, and as time has gone on they've found out more and more about their buffs.

Your soul collection stuff might be way better. Your infantry might have picked up great armor craking ability. Your beasts that weren't Titans or MK or gunbug might have ended up way better.

>>47133491
>Just because Skorne were mid/low doesn't mean what's getting nerfed was mid/low as well.
Tell me with a straight face that anything in Skorne that got nerfed was even close to as broken as Denny1. And now have a look at what they did to Denny1 in comparison to the Bronzeback.

>>47133474
Na. They've said Convergence is going to change the least.

The big shit we've heard about thus far:

The overall recursion nerf hits us pretty hard, but it's likely Engimas are going to be cheaper to make up for it. Their Repair 10 might translate into some other buff as well. Perhaps the ability to spend soul tokens to boost repair rolls?

Lucant's feat needs to change, he's losing Purification, and Watcher is rumored to lose it's jank. What he gains for this is unknown.

Syntherion is rumored to either be losing Synergy of Synergy changing somehow.

Induction is losing the once per turn limit. A Vector will be able to induct all three focus, every single turn. This means that if you're good at induction chains, you can fuel your entire battlegroup at full focus with just 3 focus. The Corollary is becoming a "true battery" as well.

>>47133516
The Bronzeback was the single highest non-character damage output piece in the entire game. It did absolutely retarded amounts of damage before.

And guess what? It's still capable of wrecking a heavy on it's own, even with all the nerfs it took. The fucking thing has what amounts to four initials at decent POW, for god's sake.

So yea, it got nerfed. It picked up .5 of extra range for that and some fury management for other Titans.

And Denny1 seems to have gotten hit way harder than you think. She lost an incredible amount of her control elements turn by turn, she's now reliant on her feat for the kind of denial she had every single turn before.

>>47133589
Why take it over a Gladiator now? Beatback is dead.

>>47133227
If they didn't revel in throwing a constant pity-party for themselves, they wouldn't have played Skorne in the first place.

>>47133654
>Why take it over a Gladiator now?
Oh I dunno, maybe because it hits way harder and provides Fury benefits for your other Titans?

>Beatback is dead.
Oh noooooo, you don't have non-linear threat tacked on to the highest damage non-character heavy in the entire game anymore, woe is you.

>>47133589
It already HAD fury management for other Titans. Other Titans used to autopass THR checks, now you take a fury off. You can argue about which is better, but it's not like the Bronzeback GAINED fury management, it just changed.

>>47133227
>and not a single other faction is constantly crying.

as a legion player, we were pretty bad until yesterday when they actually started trickling out some good news for us

http://www.strawpoll.me/10138678

>>47133818
>You can argue about which is better
Which I'm going to do right now.
Unless you were running your beasts so retardo-hot that you couldn't manage the fury even after the Bronzeback's pseudo-Soothing Song, it's pretty much better. Auto-passing your frenzy check meant that the fury was still on the beast, so unless you had a Beast Handler in range to whip it off before the beast activated it was operating at reduced capacity for the turn, plus auto-removing a fury means all your Titans are open transfer targets even if you max them out.

>>47133821

Maybe on other forums, but Legion talk has been pretty rational here of all places.

>>47134070

even here there was a bunch of "I bought legion to play beasts purchases invalidated" and "they took everything that made legion legion" for a while

>>47133821

Really I think the issue is PP is absolutely shit at handling any of these spoilers.

The Insiders are all over the place in spoiler quality for what should probably be the face of a faction's spoils. Instead you get some positive info on some minor units and some light talk of nerfs. Meanwhile actual meaty spoilers are all over the fucking place in the forums, Facebook, twitter, spoilers for other factions, etc.

It also doesn't help that the PP employees handling the spoilers have this weird sort of smugness to their spoilers. I don't think they understand why people are getting upset with some of the things they've revealed because they know how everything works and have for months.

It's just disappointing because nearly every rule change they've made I am on board for, but I despise the way they've disseminated that knowledge to the playerbase.

>>47134488
The problem is they're slow rolling shit in a way that doesn't work out well for them.

>>47133140

The thing you need to learn is that what mk3 is bringing is the option to play everything in your army. The HI + Heavy Beasts isn't the only good option now, this is what separates the new ed from the last.

What most people seems to ignore in all of this is the ridiculous amount of play testing and data-collecting that has been done to not having 1-3 units overshadow the rest of the book, but instead offer a greater variety by introducing things that simply wasn't good before.

When the full picture is released next month, I think we will all see that every team has been toned down a notch. Every unit has something it can offer the army. And even if you cant create insane deathstars that require a specific counter, you will have the ability to create a nice flow of synergy in your lists.
Ad to this the new format of Themed forces, which will give you army wide bonuses and so forth, then everything is possible.

So yes, while you have been robbed from some of your better units and you all now sits and "waah they nerfed MY special snowflakes!" rest assured it will still be very much playable when mk3 hits, you simply have more stuff to combine and ad to your list that you couldn't do before (as they probably sucked donkey balls).

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The funny part is that Cryx barely bitched about anything, despite taking the bat to the face the hardest.

Maybe Hordes players are just whiny babies.

I'm really hoping that Retribution ends up less 'Our non-assassination options are kinda shit, so we just run assassination every game'.

I'd love to do firing lines of Iosan troops and actually play for objectives properly.

>>47134671
Cryx mostly just lost the shit everyone knew was bullshit anyways, not as much the basics of how they operate.

Legion's taken the hardest hits to their basic playstyle and how they operate.

>>47134671

What sort of stuff in Cryx got hit? Satyxis?

>>47134761
everything bane

>>47134761
Banes, McThralls, recursion in general, pDenny, Skarlock thrall.

No info whatsoever on Satyxis, though they weren't the problem with Cryx to begin with.

>>47134761
Bile Thralls, Excarnate, Bane Knights no longer have Weapon Master, Skarlock Thrall, some other stuff in general.

>>47134803
>Raiders weren't the best unit in Cryx

Raiders absolutely need a nerf.

>>47134761
Cryx's biggest nerfs so far are indirect. You cant preform a combat action after recursion rek'd McThralls, and Biles to a lesser extent. Additionally not being able to charge your own dudes hurts and no more ride bys hurts Denny3 and Goreshade3.

Cryx specific ones are skarlocs can no longer cycle upkeeps and bane thralls lost stealth (but gained 1" reach) and curse lost the movement benefit.

Denny1 was toned down, but I think shes still very potent and Bane knights remain unchanged on the charge but lost the speed from curse.

>>47134914
Wait, ride by attack was removed?

>>47134954
Cav got merged. All Cav can make Impact attacks, and all of them come with a Reposition number, which is the number of inches they can move after activation.

Ride By and Tall in the Saddle are gone.

>>47134914

>Not being able to charge your own dudes...

Has it been confirmed if we can target our own guys at all in mk3? This is important to me, as it is what really made me think Warmahordes differed from traditional games such as Warhammer. Its part of the tactics, that your opponent didn't know you would actually throw your own guy, or shoot your own men in the back to get a clear charge lane or target your own guy with a massive blast weapon in the midst of the enemy "hard to hit" infantry. Its just one of those things that makes the game for me.

>>47135063
You can kill friendlies, you can target them, YOU CAN SLAM THEM but you cant charge them

Sorry gaspy2 and BLT you'll have to be closer to danger...and butchers i guess?

>>47134834

I think the Raiders will be the speed/agility unit for Cryx. Everything seems to have a niche in mk3 and bane warriors hit hard, but are slow, knights hits hard (but not as hard) and has a little bit more movement and arm, McThralls are the meat shield that re-build themselves with necro-tech, and I think Raiders and the like will be the fast units with pathfinding and you name it, nothing is good at everything now and all units that where are now given a specific role.

>>47135121
>and butchers
Anon, butcher doesn't work like that, butcher doesn't go to the danger. He IS the danger of the army

>>47135138
Well, given the fact that Bane Thralls and Knights both come with a Pathfinder variant standard, we'll have to see.

But Raiders were a fast as hell unit that hit reasonably hard and were immune to the most common method of killing them.

So something has to give.

>>47135231

Even better in fact, as you now can simply walk around your target, immune to free strikes and all (another benefit from ghostly), and whack him in the back of the head. Enjoy your extra bonus mat after the first round of cc.

But yes, I suspect a high speed, close to insane def, coped with possibly stealth (at least for one of the units), reach on the whips, probably keep gang but I think they will loose out on the backlash.

>>47135404
I'm curious on how effective that will be, to be honest.

Like, I get the idea, but if the models are close enough together to stop you from walking between them, you maybe get one or two benefits like that.

It leaves me pretty damn curious on the games rules though, it feels like there's been some pretty big changes at the base level.

Why are Legion and Skorne getting so many spoilers on the forums when Cryx got barely any?

>>47135597
They're likely trying to explain the more drastic changes both of those factions got.

Does anyone else think ferox with def 16 dodge and poltergeist with mordikaar sounds pretty great

>>47132741
I am so fucking tired of this goddamn retardo argument.

Yes, Fury is more innately powerful on beasts than focus is on jacks. Yes, this means that beasts in general are capable of doing more damage than jacks. But this does not mean that Fury is better than Focus. Look at the other shit the stats do for once in your goddamn life.

Leeching is weaker than generation. Overboosting is stronger in practice than Transfers. Losing a health spiral is more crippling than losing a system. Jacks can be more autonomous than beasts. Fury becomes more scarce as the match drags on (so Hordes will almost always lose attrition outside of a few notable casters). Jacks can take more punishment than beasts in general.

I hate how almost every Warmachine player I play is so fucking smug about how they can still win with the weaker mechanic, or how they wouldn't have lost if Fury wasn't so insanely OP. Maybe, just maybe, you should remember that the Bronzeback is the strongest melee damage peice in the game and shoot it off the table.

Maybe, just maybe, you should remember that Thagrosh can transfer to those healthy shredders before charging him and his full fury stack like a dumbass. Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be surprised when your Arm 18 caster overboosting with 6 focus is targeted by the Warpwolf Slayer. Maybe, just maybe you should focus on removing the Hordes ability to fight by targeting the beasts first.

Maybe, just maybe, you should stop being so salty and play like you've got a pair.

>>47136167
People like you give us Hordes players a bad name. Suck it up and accept that Fury blows Focus out of the fucking water in Mk2, the only counterpoint being that shit like Banes exist.

>>47136167
> Losing a health spiral is more crippling than losing a system

So, this is a troll then, right?

>>47136393
I mean, it's true if you forgot about the part where you can just heal aspects trivially. Maybe whoever taught him to play the game taught him wrong as a joke.

>>47136236
What about Fury specifically "blows focus out of the fucking water," again?

Is it that most Warmachine factions can only afford to take one to three jacks due to resource scarcity and those jacks tend to be cheaper in cost while being more durable? Is it that any jack can buy up to 3 attacks while all beasts are limited by a stat on the card that varies from 2 to 5 with an average of 4?

Because, these Hordes advantages are in a vacuum and aren't at all paired with the heightened risk of having teeth pulled out, weaker units, and less ranged threat.

>>47136507
You don't actually play this game, do you?

Watch a Legion player spend 12-15 Fury on all their beasts in a turn and suffer zero drawbacks for doing so and then tell me Fury in Mk2 isn't bullshit.

Oh, and their caster gets to do shit as well, and often has plenty bullshit spells as well.

>>47136445
You know the rule

>>47136167
>Leeching is weaker than generation.
True, leeching is weaker. But games don't get long enough for the end game of each resource system to matter much.

>Overboosting is stronger in practice than Transfers.
Overboosting is far weaker than transfers. Transfering 6+ damage is stronger than preventing only 1 of it.

>Losing a health spiral is more crippling than losing a system.
Blatently false. Sure, the effect of it being out might be worse, but it only takes 1 fury from a Warlock to get that spiral fully operational

>Jacks can be more autonomous than beasts.
They can leave the caster's control area and still use focus, that's it. Factions like Legion have access to shit like Shepherd that allow forcing outside the control area.

>Fury becomes more scarce as the match drags on (so Hordes will almost always lose attrition outside of a few notable casters).
Games never get long enough for attrition of that style to matter.

>Jacks can take more punishment than beasts in general.
Beasts can be healed up easier. So unless you 1-round the beast, it's coming back at you at full power

>*bitching about Hordes players*
>Maybe, just maybe, you should stop being so salty and play like you've got a pair.

Listen to your own advice, scrub.

>>47136445
>Devoting 1/3 - 2/3 of your fury to get 2 beasts back into "not completely useless" status is totes trivial.

>>47136133
Oooh. Yeah that sounds nice.

>>47136590
Wait, what?

You can spend, at MOST, 2 Fury to heal a beast back to full. Otherwise it's dead.

That means that even a Fury 6 caster is only spending a third of their stack.

Plus they usually medicate first, which has a 2/3 chance of just flat out getting it to full for free(at 3", with no roll required), so the warlock is spending a single fury 90% of the time.

And that gives you a fully operational beast that's very likely to kill what just tried to kill it, because you just go hog wild on the fury with the realistic assumption that your opponent will just finish killing it.

Seriously, do you even play this game?

>>47136662
Oh, you said two beasts. So yea, your fury numbers are right.

But if you honestly think it isn't worth it, you're fucking retarded.

>>47136689
Also, why the fuck did you example involve two different beasts? Was it to make it so that the Fury spending doesn't sound so trivial?

Because the Medicate shit still bends your argument the fuck over.

And here's the final nail in the coffin: Even if it's expensive, guess what? You have the option.

If a Jack loses systems, there's dogshit you can do about it, especially if it's the cortex. You have to rely on B2B mechanics making a repair check that you hope passes, and if their cortex is out, the jack still does fucking nothing.

>>47134488
I agree, plus there just isn't enough info to make any kind of speculation. I wish someone would just leak the faction decks already

>>47136576
>Overboosting is far weaker than transfers. Transfering 6+ damage is stronger than preventing only 1 of it.
Yeah. And if the caster and lock reserved the same amount focus/fury for transfers the lock is done transferring. Hit him again for full damage. But the caster gets that -1 damage on every swing. After 6 attacks that's even damage prevention. And this evening out happens faster the more fury/focus is camped. Maybe it's just my local meta, but I never see 1 camped focus, it's always 3+.

>Blatently false. Sure, the effect of it being out might be worse, but it only takes 1 fury from a Warlock to get that spiral fully operational
Yes. Just 1 fury. Which means one less fury for shaking effects, upkeeps, spell casting, buying attacks, boosting, and transfers. The more you have to spend fury on, the more valuable each point is. When your total is 5 and you need to shake an effect and keep an upkeep up, 1 fury is not trivial.

>Games never get long enough for attrition of that style to matter.
Maybe it's a "my meta" thing again, but I'd wager that a full half of the matches I've played have come down to a no jacks, no beasts, 1 unit and warnoun slugfest. When that happens, I lose. Full stop.

>Beasts can be healed up easier. So unless you 1-round the beast, it's coming back at you at full power
For one round. And then it's dead. At no small cost to the lock. When Jacks can weather 3 and 4 rounds of punishment with little intervention from the caster/repairers and my beasts lose 2 aspects in one round, I suddenly have some expensive choices to make.

>>47136952
>Maybe it's a "my meta" thing again, but I'd wager that a full half of the matches I've played have come down to a no jacks, no beasts, 1 unit and warnoun slugfest. When that happens, I lose. Full stop.
Ok man, I play Convergence, one of the most attrition heavy armies in the entire game. Half the time, I come to the table with the intent of making a game last as long as possible, mostly to time you out.

And do you know how often I get these kind of games? Maybe one in five, at a high guess.

Attrition that even simply doesn't happen very often. Either one side blows the opponent up or neither side can manage that sort of clear, it's incredibly rare for both sides to punch out so even.

>>47136952
>For one round. And then it's dead. At no small cost to the lock. When Jacks can weather 3 and 4 rounds of punishment with little intervention from the caster/repairers and my beasts lose 2 aspects in one round, I suddenly have some expensive choices to make.
Just stop fucking posting.

Jacks don't last that fucking long, ever. Not in comparison to beasts.

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>>47137044
>Half the time, I come to the table with the intent of making a game last as long as possible, mostly to time you out.

>>47136167
>weaker than generation. Overboosting is stronger in practice than Transfers. Losing a health spiral is more crippling than losing a system. Jacks can be more autonomous than beasts. Fury becomes more scarce as the match drags on (so Hordes will almost always lose attrition outside of a few notable casters). Jacks can take more punishment than beasts in general.

>>47136167

Oh god you don't know what yore talking about do you? First of

> Overboosting is stronger in practice than Transfers

Not necessarily, as long as you have focus you can just transfer ALL damage. It only ever matters on the tanking casters, and thats why your upset.

>Loosing a health spiral is more crip...

Wont even continue with the text as it is to absurd. If you loose a health spiral, you know what happens? You heal 1 box, and your up to full fighting strength again! I'm like WHAT THE FUCK!!!! If I loose a system, you know what happens? I generally die, because the beast 1-shot me, but IF I where to survive, Its gone, nothing to be done about it. Unless I play a very specific repair list, which is highly unlikely.

>Jacks can be more autonomous than beasts

Explain.

>Fury becomes more scarce as the match drags on

Not anymore, you get 1 fury for each dead beast you got in mk3... there goes your argument with 30 points to spend.

>Bronzback is the strongest...

It might still be, we are not sure yet, as we have not seen the bigger picture yet. But one things for sure, Fury is so damn much better than Focus any day of the week.

When we get Jacks that can make 3-4 initials, cast self buff and not rely on their caster to give up half their current focus to be a force to be reckoned with, I'm satisfied to say Jacks and Focus is just as good as Beasts and Fury.

>>47135465

Then more the fun for all blast weapons you got, "oh so you put your guys in a tight formation to stop me from advancing? Well, here comes the blast!", after which you re-animate stuff, which will be the Cryx theme in the new ed.

>>47136546

Second!

>>47137114
>Jacks can be more autonomous than beasts
>Explain.

Not that guy, but...
So long as a jack is inside control area during the control phase they can freely move about the board doing what they do best. This allows the jacks to leave control area and perform tasks, which puts less pressure on the player with his order of activations.

>>47136546
The one "I can do anything I want with my warbeasts!!!11!!1" faction may not be the best barometer for measuring fury.

I mean, we don't say that focus is crazy because of Cryss induction chains....

Just sayin.

>>47137099
Clock wins are best wins.

>>47137368
The only faction that had any issue with fury management is Trolls and Minions. circle, Lwgion and Skorne all trivialized fury management

>>47137368
People don't look at the CoC and go "that's bullshit." They look at it and go "that's how fury should work." And then the devs agreed and now we have power up.

the hordes player is ignoring alpha strikes here.

>Charged by pow 20 guy rolling 4 dice for damage
>Rolls 26 damage
>Boxes basically every warcaster
>Warlock throws the damage onto a beast, is left standing with full boxes

Yes you lose a beast to that but you don't lose the game and it's likely you get more fury to then hand off more damage with if it has more big attacks.

>>47136952
>>Maybe it's a "my meta" thing again, but I'd wager that a full half of the matches I've played have come down to a no jacks, no beasts, 1 unit and warnoun slugfest. When that happens, I lose. Full stop.

I just started scanning through this thread and spotted the argument. I'd just like to chime in here.
What the fuck is up with your local meta? Just...what the fuck? Do you have zero players that travel to tournaments or something? Does everyone play 35 points and gentleman agree to avoid assassinations? That is such an extreme end game state that I cannot imagine seeing it 50% of the time. What the fuck are you guys doing?

I'm not even trying to be nasty. I'm astounded and curious.

>>47134488
>PP employees handling the spoilers have this weird sort of smugness to their spoilers.

You are the first person to say this and I agree entirely. Why are they so fucking wierd about it?

>>47139189
They are enjoying the chance to share the information while at the same time dealing with a situation where they have a far more complete view then everyone else. Which means they get a bit smug when dealing with the criticism and whining.

Personally I'm a bit happy they are like that. It's why we get to tease so much info out of them via the forum after insiders. They could just stay totally tightlipped and leave it at just the insiders.

>>47137827


>warlock takes no damage

you take all damage left over if it does more than the beast has boxes left.

>>47140372
I know, but it's still not game over.

>>47140372
>Not just letting your warlock go to tough
Get the FUCK out.

>>47140549


It discourages direct assassinations a bit but there are three things that mitigate it:

1) the aforementioned feedback overkill damage
2) you have to add one fury to a beast to transfer to it. People forget this one
3) can't transfer to a beast with full fury

>>47140906
Except this is MK2 we're talking where you can suck fury off a beast like a tumblr girl drinking a milk shake.

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>>47140906
People forget point 2 because it isnt true

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>>47140906
Right so as
>>47141018
said. 2 is false.

>>47139168
I thought this was a crazy thing to say also. I've almost never eliminated a hordes battlegroup (i play cryx, so mine dies fairly often but who cares). 50pt games just don't come down to that level of attrition for very long. Plus USUALLY someone will keep a fury battery handy in the back field

>>47140906

I've only had over kill dmg matter when my colossal smacked a warlock for about 50dmg, the transfer killed a perfectly good heavy warbeast and ended up killing the warlock.

Although I greatly lament how fragile the titan gladiator and bronzeback are now, the titan sentry made out like a bandit this edition. All it lost was 1 def and 1 fury, gained 1 mat, a 10/21 is no worse than an 11/21. My only regret is that my gladiator isn't magnetized, and my other titan is a sentry/tiberion magnetized. Might end up picking up some more titans to be outfitted as sentries and cannoneers.

Any word about Rhinodons except for the Spiny Growth bit? Love me some Rhinodons, but they were lacking this edition.

>>47142479

Nope.

Personally though, I am REALLY hoping that Spiny Growth does dmg to everything that damages the model and not just Beast/Jacks.

I like the idea of the Rhinadon threshing infantry and just being a big ass block that the infantry has to avoid or die trying to kill.

Also Mat 6.

That's my wishlist.

>>47142479
Did you hear that Spiny Growth is supposed to do d3 to everything, and not just jacks/beasts?

>>47142297

Actually, we have confirmation that Gladiators stayed Fury 4. Odds are the Sentry is still Fury 4 also. So far it's only the Cannoneer that's dropped.

The Gladiator also still has Rush and Rush is basically the same (only Friendly Faction now). Meaning he will just be a buff bot again anyway. Also he is going to be 14 points. In other words he costs about as much as a Rhindon used to.

As for the Bronzeback, I think thy're making a distinction between him and the Ardus Soldier. The Bronzeback still has big dmg output but he can be shot down. So odds are he will be better with stuff that can keep him safe and deliver him. The Ardus however also has decent dmg output but actually has survivability from range.

On top of this, there's a lot of shit we don;t know. I.E. Bronzebacks Animus or anything else that might artificially buff defensive stats.

We are not doomed yet bro. We shall yet survive this night.

>>47142909

Source?

>>47143021
When asked if all the titans lost a point of fury, he replied with the gladiator kept fury 4. That implies the sentry didn't.

>>47136546
>Watch a Legion player spend 12-15 Fury on all their beasts in a turn and suffer zero drawbacks for doing so and then tell me Fury in Mk2 isn't bullshit.
Oh god this beasts are so oped compared to jacks it's not funny.

person who has never played and doesn't know anything about the game here: what do the devs mean by there's gonna be more risk to running your warbeasts hot?

>>47143626
It's kinda hard to explain what that means to someone who knows nothing, we would have to explain the entire concept of fury and how that works first.

>>47143626
In theory, the Fury system is supposed to be about risk and reward. You can dump a bunch of Fury on all your beasts so they all do a ton of stuff, but if you do you can only remove so much of that fury so some of them will flip the fuck out and not do what you want them to the following turn.

In practice 3/5 Hordes factions had enough ways to remove Fury that they could just max out all their beasts all the time and they never got punished for it.

>>47143021
>Meaning he will just be a buff bot again anyway.
He's straight up a better bronzeback

>>47143626
Ok, so there's two mechanics in the game, Warmachine has Focus, Hordes has Fury.

Focus is meant to be a resource management mechanic, in that there's not enough Focus to go around turn by turn. Warcasters always want more Focus than they have, so it's all about managing who gets what turn by turn.

Fury, on the other hand, is supposed to be a Risk vs Reward mechanic. Fury is a lot more plentiful than Focus is, because you generate it for extra effects rather than spending it, however, if your warbeasts have any Fury left on them when your turn starts(Your warlock has the ability to remove it, and uses it to cast spells) then that beast has a chance of going crazy and killing the closest target.

Well, problem was, Hordes has tons of ways to trivially manage Fury without any issues. So you'd have Beasts that were generating the max amount of Fury they could and never suffering a drawback for doing so, letting Hordes armies get output on their beasts they were never really intended to get.

In the larger scale of the game, it wasn't a huge balance issue, but in terms of Warjacks and Focus vs Warbeasts and Fury, it was a massive difference. Indeed, there's a lot of Mk2 warmachine armies that would simply forgo warjacks entirely if they had the choice, and 90% of the lists rarely ran more than a single one.

Meanwhile, you had Legion, who would often run nothing but warbeasts and support elements and do just fine and never have to risk a frenzy unless they didn't care.

>>47143704
How the fuck do you figure?

Even in Mk3 terms, the Bronzeback outdamages him. And that's without knowing anything else that's changed with them.

Gladiator does an average of 29.79 damage to a 10/20 heavy, Bronzeback does 37.23, 42.29 if he gets the Chain Attack

Against a 12/20 heavy, Glad is at 19.86, While Bronzeback is at 32.08, 36.25 with Chain Attack.

It puts up far better numbers in terms of raw damage.

I'm going to miss the bronzeback's old leadership.

It let me run a bunch of titans with pMorghoul and just let the fury flow for one turn, barely be able to leach any of it, and just as long as I cleared the bronzeback up the other titans were fine.

Reducing fury by 1 is nice, but is nothing compared to ignoring THR checks.

>>47143862
If you properly manage your Fury, the -1 will be much better, because it will let your beasts do shit turn after turn.

>>47143893
Not to mention it ensures you'll have them all available as transfer targets no matter how hot you run.

>>47143893
pMorghoul is a fury 5 warlock who wants to run beast heavy because of Abuse. Those two things are pretty hard to balance, the bronzeback animus did wonders for it.

>>47143916
Yeah, it's not like you would load all your titans up to full fury yolo, usually you'd have them up at 3 fury for transfers and leach the bronzeback. Bronzeback still works at full speed, while the others could either have condition take it off and deal without having enrage, or be enraged again to use their initials and be big meaty roadblocks.

>>47137700
>Circle
>Trivializing fury management

I don't think Primal counts

Can't wait to see Primal become Self

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>LGS running 20% off on wargaming for the day
>very nearly blow my grocery budget on Imperatus and templates before I satiate the itch with just a Voidtracer
Mk3 isn't even out yet and I'm already addicted to collecting toy soldiers again. It needs to be Monday already so I can have a vague, half-formed idea of what Ret is going to look like in July.

>>47143797
Gladiator actually has an animus. And will be way cheaper.

>>47144458
Beatback will remain useful, just not as amazing as it was before.

And why would it be way cheaper?

>>47144603
Warbeasts and jacks, with a few exceptions, have been following the formula mk2 cost*2 -2. Gladiator went from 8 to 14 for example. It's likely that bronzeback will go from 10 to 18, though it's possible it might be at -3 like carnivean was and go to 17.

>>47144603
>Beatback will remain useful
It's a fucking joke. If only you could push away instead of directly away. Or move up even if you kill your target. It's only useful to push things out of zones. And everything that can be pushed can be killed just as well by a Bronzeback. Even after the nerf.

>>47144195
That won't happen since primal on a caster would do literally nothing

>>47136736
>>47136689
>>47136662
Not to keep this kind of shit rolling, but a 'jack also has extra systems you can break, losing your movement on a SPD 4 'jack is ass, and the Arc Node you paid like two more points for sucks so much dick.

That said, I like the difference in Body/Mind and Arm systems.

>>47145360

The main problem has never been about Jacks vs Beasts only, but more of a Focus vs Fury mechanics, where Fury is simply a much better mechanic overall. But yes, Jacks suffer from so much its ridiculous, all you need is 1 lucky hit, and you knocked out M, or the main weapon R or some other bullshit. While with a beast, you must kill it of completely, or suffer a full retaliation (after heal) of a fully functional beast.

I have a friend who, for years, has denied this in a manner not to unlike the people who denies it on /tg/. And he ONLY players Hordes because he says "it fits his play style" better, always aiming to roll with the best lists.
Imagine his surplice when finally PP got my back on this one spelling it outright that Fury is such a no-brainer-stat they had to nerf it. Not only that, but also nerfing all the Beasts along side it! I think Ill be hearing a "well, I play Warmachine, because it so much more fits my play style" in a few months....

Scytheans and Ravagores having a bite attack now is... pretty crazy.

>>47145684
They're really stressing their glass cannon playstyle, yea.

They've lost a lot defensively, but now all of their beasts are giant threats on the table. I'm willing to bet the fliers got some damage buffs as well.

>>47145533
Well, the thing to remember was that the overall game balance was pretty solid, it was just the specific mechanics that had some issues.

This is why Warmachine is likely to see some pretty big nerfs as well, especially towards their infantry. One of the devs also said that a lot of units have lost weapon master, though he didn't name any names.

>>47145684
Legion was going "waaah scythean lost an initial because of chain attack becoming thresher" and then they literally get an extra initial

>>47145732
Ravagores will probably still be bullshit in MK3. :P Glass cannon doesn't mean anything when... you win by killing shit. lol

>>47145739
Yeah a bunch of fucking whiners hahaha. It's probably gonna be something crazy like a PS 18 which is what I think the Carnivean has. If the Scythean is PS 18, PS 17 PS 17 but with no ranged attack that will be... pretty insane.

>>47145809
Yea. I think the important thing to remember about all of this is that Legion's going to be getting far, far less work done with it's beasts turn by turn then they used too.

Ravagore isn't going to be shooting at full boost every turn, for example.

>>47145732

Yes, and we have already begun to see this. Partly in reduced efficiency of the individual infantry, but also as the Jack-points goes up.
With the launch of mk3 we will most probably see units with specific army roles, jacks will be better overall, and beasts will be nerfed overall. And they seem to be pretty determined to give each faction its own style of play, like having Cryx be the soul-collecting necro-tech-freaks they should be, while Legion will be the fast fury-management-pro´s, and so forth.

I really have hopes up that mk3 will be the definition of a balanced miniature wargame. A statement that it actually can be done if you work hard on trying to do so!

>>47145824
We'll see how it goes. In the MK1 > MK2 shift there was a big push in warjack use/warbeast stuff initially. Then it died off as lists reverted back to the typical list design.

It could be that Legion defaults to light spam/flying beasts, given that Raeks have extended control range and stuff now. I'm just a little bit skeptical. Excited, but cautiously so.

>>47145824
>Ravagore isn't going to be shooting at full boost every turn, for example

Forsaken might fill the shepherds role.

>>47145980
Yea, but Forsaken store Fury, they don't simply remove it. You might get one full turn out of them eating Fury, but after that you gotta dump it.

>>47145995
So when forsaken dumps, caster takes ravagore fury, alternating turns. I dunno.

>>47145950
The Mk2 transition was murdered by the public play test and the people doing it, which is totally why they avoided it this time.

A ton of shit died in the playtest because people didn't really go in with honest feelings.

I mean hell, look at how people are reacting right now. Imagine having this same group playtesting the rules we've been presented.

>>47146016
Sure, but that's not running a battlegroup like Legion used too.

>>47146023
Yeah that would probably be really shitty. lol. I'm glad they just did it on their own this time. I'm also really happy they've cleaned up some specific rules and they aren't scared to just cut stuff out of the game where they feel it should no longer exist.

>>47146023
what happened with the mk2 public playtest?

>>47146023
>Imagine having this same group playtesting the rules we've been presented
Part of the whining must be due to not having the full picture. I'm hoping when Mk. III comes out people's bitching will be unfounded.

Call me cautiously optimistic, I guess.

>>47146462
There was just a whole lot of people holding grudges from Mk1 that got held over. A lot of shit got nerfed into the ground that really didn't deserve it, or deserve it near as much as it got.

Morgul2, Trenchers, Immortals, all sorts of stuff just got bent over.

Like, look at the basic Mk2 Skorne rulebook, and how none of the shit in it works. That's the Mk2 playtest in a nutshell.

>>47146462
Skorne was ruined

>>47146462
It was public. Everyone had their own opinion on what should happen, and PP had to sort through a mountain of shit to give us a decent edition. I'm not surprised that this one wasn't public.

>>47125423
dat Age of Cygnar

>>47146557
>Morgul2, Trenchers
From what I know of Mk. I, Morgul2 was horrendous to be matched against, but he was nerf'd to oblivion. Trenchers don't seem like they were that bad, though I think Mk. III is going to make them great again.

>>47146834
In Mk1, Trenchers could put their cloud walls so they didn't touch their bases, meaning they blocked line of sight to themselves.

So a Cyngar army could shoot, then Trenchers would make it so nothing could see their entire army. Turn by turn, this caused some issues, to say the least.

Garret I know you're here, stop being a bitch

>>47145739
I thought the main source of Legion whining was that the Carni chassis was now Spd 5?

>>47147481
That's part of it, but there was a huge uproar about the scythean not being able to crack armor anymore because of it having 1 less attack

>>47146834
>Let's make Trenchers great again

>>47147253
Annon, no annon
we don't use the names.

>>47146462
Ignore the Skorne fags whining.

The MK II playtest's problem was that the broken units often didn't get fixed. Take Cryx, everyone hated the faction and complained and yet the same units were good in MK2 as in MK1. The odd unit was shifted around and some things did get heavily nerfed but the core problems remained the core problems.

Part of this is just the game design has things in it that it shouldn't have. Small based models outside of warcasters and solos never should of got weapon master for example. There is simply no good way you can balance large expensive models against 10 guys running at you doing twice as much damage for the same points cost. Instead of fixing this, they considered it a core part of the game and that made the good still good and the bad still bad.

>>47146834
E Morghoul was strong but no different from any of the other assassination casters with a control feat to shut people down for a turn while he did his job. He wasn't as big a deal as people like E lylyth was.

I hate how low the P+S on some light beasts is. I mean, I know they're only light beasts, but a Cyclops Savage shouldn't be 13 when a fucking Nihilator is 12. I hope they change this.

>>47148707

Yeah, that is a big problem with light jacks too. I would love to take more Repenters or Dervishes, but they just don't have the damage output.

>>47148735
Could it be because they're light warbeasts and they're more for support than full on hulk smashing things?

>>47145732
>One of the devs also said that a lot of units have lost weapon master, though he didn't name any names.

I'm hoping like hell it's not the Paladins of the Wall. They are already a very situational toy compared to the Bastions.

I'd love to see the Bastions lose it and I play Menoth. Give the Paladins the 'I'm damn good at everything' role because they are an expensive solo and put the Bastions in the position of 'We take damage like a motherfucker but can't devastate jacks'

>>47148755

Repenters and Dervishes are Menoth Warjacks. They don't do much but smash.

On the other hand: I never really had much issue with Dervishes. 2 initial attacks + sidestep made them good at murdering their way through light infantry.

Something I'd like to see with 3e but likely won't happen? Make the Elemental Attacks DO something. Right now, being elemental is 100% downside. I'd like to see 'Oooh, this does fire damage' be interesting and not just 'Well, that means it's useless against several targets'

>>47148824
I replied to the wrong person there, but even light jacks should be more support than front line. They're your arc nodes, your shield guards or your solo hunters who need to take a hit back not just fold on 5 damage boxes.

>>47148866

Sadly neither of the pair do any of those really well.

They don't have shield guard and they don't have arc nodes.

Part of their issue is that they fill roles that are hard to make work.

The Dervish is an infantry muncher...but lacks the MAT to take on the light infantry that people actually play and not just flail about. In turn it lacks the P+S to crack heavy infantry reliably. It's also kinda slow so it's not living up to it's name that well.

The Repentor suffers from it's main melee weapon being a flail. It's got Light Jack Pow so most jacks with Shields kinda just get vaguely annoyed at it even after ignoring the shield bonus. It's mostly good as a flamethrower delivery system in a faction that has plenty of existing options for getting a lot of people covered in fire.

Basically: Both suffer because they are not really good at support and both try to be front-liners.

>>47148866

They don't provide animi, they don't provide a resource at all, and they don't really have the survivability to much. Most of them are just a damage source, and it terribly much of one either.

>>47148931
I feel like the Purifier might be the light infantry mulcher. Between Overtake and setting goddamn everything on fire, it should do some work.

>>47148824
Current theory around Malekus is that he's going to boost fire damage. I think a similar mechanism for all factions would be fun. And we're seeing it in some models like Zapdos, Croak Raiders, etc.

>>47149464

>Current theory around Malekus is that he's going to boost fire damage. I think a similar mechanism for all factions would be fun. And we're seeing it in some models like Zapdos, Croak Raiders, etc.

Yeah, I'd just prefer it to be part of the element itself. Not 'This can sometimes, in the right faction, be improved'

PP did do weapon masters right at one point. Early on for example Doom Reavers had no UA and so your obvious weapon master choice was a unit limited to 6 guys who would all kill each other if they weren't spaced out. That was a good example where weapon master worked because the unit was self-contained and limited. A single doomie could still do a lot of work if it got through but they had poor defensive stats.


Contrast that with like 10 stealth banes that lower armor in melee like whatever PP

>>47149720
Well, most elemental attacks have critical SOMETHING. Heck, maybe that'll be inherent to the element in MKIII. Continuous Fire/Corrosion, Freeze, Disruption, and Smite. Although lots of Fire/Corrosion already HAS Continuous. Maybe if you have a Continuous Fire on you already, if you get another one it immediately does a POW 12? That might get OP, though.

I sorta get what you mean, but I think sometimes the elemental bits are more for fluff/balance. Flamethrowers are going to do fire damage, and I think a small discount is factored into them accordingly.

>>47149791
You just make enemies weak to elements. Do the pokemon thing when it's suitable, so wooden enemies take more damage from fire.

Took the PP army personality quiz and got Khador. Been looking at some tactics stuff and I've been thinking about trying to get a Winter Guard list with a Kodiak as a cheap way to get into the game.

Is there anything changing in Mk3 that'll make this a terrible terrible idea?

>>47150192
no one knows yet, I'd hold off for a few weeks, save your money that way you can get what ever you want that will work in mk3.

>>47150192
I'd say pick up the battlebox/all-in-one army box if you can; it's a really solid value. If you can't get the all-in-one, a battlebox and a unit of winterguard is probably a good idea.

Something to keep in mind is that Sorscha isn't a typical Khador warnoun. She really wants to go for that assassination.

>>47150192
The personality quiz is fucking stupid.

Wait for the MKIII rules to drop, tell us what you like to do in wargames and we'll point you towards the battlebox you want and help you pick from there.

>>47150192

I advise waiting for MK3 drop if you are serious about competitive play. If you just want to mess around, buy/play what you like visually or thematically.

I'm going to wait and get the new Khador battlebox just for the complete newness feeling. :)

>>47149778
>Contrast that with like 10 stealth banes that lower armor in melee like whatever PP

Bane Thralls were always in the game.

>tell us what you like to do in wargames
Haven't played enough to really develop a taste for it. I do tend to prefer slow and steady or lots of guns and artillery when I get a choice in my strategies.

>>47148788
Not you but I can feel the nerf coming a big way to some khador infantry sadly. We had a metric ton of weapon masters to the point in my local meta khador is called the Weapon master faction, Im expecting doom reavers and man hunters to lose it for sure.

>>47141018


Oops gave away a spoiler

>>47150794
if that's true Im actually pretty ok with it. Honestly I'd also be okay with fury not being able to heal beasts but I know that aint gonna happen.

>>47150457

Oh well then yeah, feel free to buy some Khador stuff now. They have already spoiled some of what the Light Artillery is set to do in MK3. Mortars are regarded as one of the only good ones in MK2, and they seem even better in MK3. The Field Gun is quite better in MK3. They also stated that Khador is set to get an Artillery Kapitan at some point.

Khador won't change too much from MK2 > MK3 in regards to slow shit + artillery = win

>>47150192
Where on earth is that quiz anyway? I keep hearing about it.

>>47151126
Yo
https://4screens.net/e/57055681050fba0100b380b3

Returning Retribution player. So what is with the character warjacks? Is Moros ok or just a table decoration?

So, question.

I was browsing through War Room recently, just looking over stats and synergies as I'm planning on either drastically boosting one of my smaller armies or getting a new army for Mk3, and going through Ret, I found the Banshee, which I wasn't really aware of stat-wise because while we have a few Ret players here, no one plays it, and no one talks about it, which seems strange as the card seems... awfully good. Why haven't I heard of it?

>>47150929

Oh that would be sooo good! Fucking hate it when a beast survives with like 2 boxes, only to heal an additional 2 boxes and be back at full fighting strength to retaliate (aka totally fucking murder anything it touches!).

Pondering Mk3 builds waaaay too early, but with the Legion spoilers, I'm kinda thinking:

Bethayne (+28?)
- Raek 8
- Raek 8
- Blightbringer 36?
- Ravagore 18? (or other heavy)
Max Grotesque Raiders 12
Max Grotesque Raiders 12
Grotesque Assassin 4?
Grotesque Assassin 4?
Top off with Shepherds/Forsaken.

So, Beth's feat gives everything flank: warbeast.

Raiders, assassins, and raeks run first turn. If you're going first, that's 21" up the board.

The raiders then threat 12.5" (assuming the assassin keeps Desperate Pace) -- 7" + 3" charge + 0.5" melee range +2" Pace. That's 33.5" up the board. Notably, that's past *every* objective, and 1.5" into the other guy's advance deployment zone. Raeks are as fast, and on feat turn can run 14" into position to mark targets for the feat, or advance+leap 12" up to get behind stuff.

Under feat, the grots with gang and flank charge at MAT 9 12+4d6 damage. If Blighty throws out Dragon's Breath on the target, that's 14+4d6.

And they're all stealthed, and either fly or have pathfinder.

So first turn you run the grots up to threaten the entire scenario zone, and then feat on turn two if they move anything in there. If they don't, by your second turn you can have blighty toe a zone or objective, and maneuver the grots to maximize threat.

Hmm.

>>47151345
No spoilers for them yet.

>>47151399
It was heavily played.

>>47151641
Oh I meant in MKII. I have only prime models.

>>47148755
So you're saying that an 8 foot tall monster with a two handed sword should only be +1 pow over a regular dude with a two handed sword?

A cyclops savage doesn't support shit, it's basically a 5 point solo. Support light beasts and jacks are in a good spot, but there are some built just for melee combat and those ones tend to underperform. Why give a focus to a light melee jack instead of a heavy? With fury you can at least use them as disposable missiles, if expensive ones.

Compare the Savage to the Brute. Brute has Reach so it can jam, the brute has arm 19 with shield guard, brute has a very nice defensive animus, brute is same cost as the savage. The brute sees play all the time, the savage only sees play in battlebox games.

>>47151641
Ok. Must just be an odd anamoly in my local meta.

>>47151878
Well if you don't see much Butcher3 in your local meta, there won't be many Banshees either.

>>47151800
All Clyclopes have Reach. Savage has Future Sight, a point of POW and a point of MAT over the Brute, but the Brute has another attack, a Shield, Set Defense, Shield Guard, and can force attackers to reroll. And a great Animus.

Which is a shame, because I love the Savage's model, I love the fluff behind all the Cyclopes. I wish you could run heavy on the one-eyed monsters without it being gimmicky.

>>47151800
>Doesn't support shit
>Doesn't generate fury for your fury dependent Warlock

Okay buddy, doesn't support shit. It's just part of your fury loop that can also just be used as a 5 point solo that can smash something with it's fury mechanic then be left to run wild after.

>>47152189
>I wish you could run heavy on the one-eyed monsters without it being gimmicky.

I feel the same way about Nephilim. Hoping for them to be more viable in Mk 3

>>47152255
But why use that instead of a heavy, or a brute, is the question.

The brute generates the same amount of fury. A basilisk generates the same amount of fucking fury. Are you that stupid? Do you think it having fury is somehow unique to skorne warbeasts?

A beast having fury isn't some novel new fucking concept, the question is why bring a melee light instead of a support light or a melee heavy.

>>47152318
Because you want the free spell it gives you and want to use it to solo hunt, while giving you a cheap warbeast you can push a bit of damage onto or use as a fury battery.

There are reasons to take it, you just don't like them.

>>47152366
Same cost as the brute, same fury as the brute. It has +1 pow, which doesn't matter much for solo hunting, and +1 mat, which is definitely nice but the brute can boost if you're solo hunting. Same speed, less durable than a brute, worse animus. Brute has an extra attack. Why take a savage instead of a brute? Since you can't stack animi it's incredibly rare for future sight to be a better choice than any of our other animi.

>>47152391
Oh, also, the brute has a higher threshold.

>>47152391
+1 Mat and +1 pow is a big difference depending on what solos you're going after.

>>47152467
What solo isn't going to die to a pow 14 enraged charge? And a boosted mat 5 is still going to hit damn near anything.

>>47152501
Like. Any solo that a boosted mat 5 might not hit is going to be killed in one swing without charging, so it's got the fury to buy and boost again. Any solo that a pow 14 enrage wouldn't outright kill is probably low def enough to not need to boost hit against, and so can buy swings until dead. The +1 mat from the savage helps, the +1 pow not so much. There's not a lot of solos that are both def 15+ and will survive a pow 12, let alone a 14.

>>47152318
I mean, a Savage can do some work. Boosted POW 12's Kill Casters. Speed 6 and Reach mean he can have some decent threat range. He's just... sorta underwhelming, with a very niche animus. If he was 4 points, I could see taking one, as that's a good deal on a beatstick. As-is, he's competing with the pretty clearly superior Brute and the toolbox that is the Shaman. There's a reason Savages don't see the table very often. Which, again, is a shame, as I love the model. Some kind of "barbaric" special rule would really make it shine. Pain Response or something, maybe? For one more point, Trolls get the Axer, which completely outshines the Savage, and for one less point, you get a Razor Worm, which is BETTER at hunting solos, has a decent animus, and all kinda movement shenanigans.

I think hope we'll see more light beasts and jacks in MKIII. PP's said they're trying for it, and I want to play Cyclops Spartacus with a whole tribe and have it not be a straight-up gimmick list.

And why take a Savage to solo hunt anyways? There's far less expensive options that can do the exact same thing for cheaper.

>>47152580
Yeah, the savage is a great tool for caster hunting with future sight. It just still doesn't seem worth it when we have so many better options than it for doing that job. I've definitely used enraged abused savages in journeyman games to kill the shit out of things with. But that's when you're forced to use them, there's just so many better options out there.

>>47152580
New Razor Worms look insane for blocking charge lanes and generally being a pain in the ass.

A 17/19 Light beast is pretty hilarious.

>>47152391
Because the brute is mat 5, and the savages animus can be cool along with puppet master. Have there been stat spoilers for then 8 in mk3? The sentry is moving to mat 6,so that's cool. Realistically you're getting one fully boosted attack out of a brute that's likely to do anything, the savage is much more aggressive

Warmachine lights in theory have the same problem except worse, why take a melee light to a fight instead of a melee heavy, especially with focus?

But in practice the warmachine lights aren't built that way. Other than some bonejacks and the Dervish, I can't think of any that don't have utility outside of being a beatstick. A lot of them are good jammers with a shield and set defense, or have an arc node, or a gun, or any number of things. Look at the Stalker, that's a fucking fantastic light combat jack. Or the Griffon, which is cheap, has a pow 15 charge, a shield, and is fast.

>>47152679
Can you tell me which solos aren't killed by a fully boosted brute swing? Tough ones don't count, it's got a second initial to pop them with if they tough and are knocked down.

>>47152723
So realistically damage is almost never an issue, right? The trouble is hitting, and mat 5 you're looking at 50/50 for def 15. So realistically you've got two chances to seeing, unless you used your animus or have any fury on him.

I like the brute, but it's disappointed me a lot.

>>47152812
The chance of rolling a 10 on 3 dice is 62%, not 50%. And the brute virtually never uses its own animus, the animus exists to stop caster assassinations. It's usually got 3 fury to spare on buying and boosting unless it needs to spend 1 to charge, then it can become an issue since we don't get free charges anymore.

>>47152636
I think the new Razor Worms will do the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing pretty well. You can Rush it, charge 11" and box a trooper, move another 8" to the perfect jamming position, dig in and Spiny Growth, which rumor has it will cause damage to anything trying to melee it, and it'll be damn near impossible to shoot. Your opponent has to sacrifice some troopers or bang up a warnoun to remove it, and if he doesn't, it's going to eat supports all day.

>>47152976
Are you the same anon who has this huge boner for the new razor worm, or are there more of you?

>>47152812
The Savage has another 12-ish percent to hit over the Brute, which is fairly significant, but lacks a lot of the utility of the Brute. Either way, you're probably gonna connect with a couple boosted swings, and you should probably be trying to knock down high-def solos or set them on fire or something over swingin' away with a 'clops.

Huh, miniaturemarket is only offering 10% off PP stuff. Guess PP was able to knock their dick off the table somehow.

File: I really liked Tremors okay.png (2MB, 862x1162px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 862x1162px

>>47153119
I like the model, and it seems like there'll be a lot of opportunities for shenanigans, especially if eHexxy keeps some of his schtick.

>>47153194
They're going to be solid scenario pieces in any case, since you're typically going to be able to force the other guy to trade a heavy for it.

Me, if the gladiators get the currently rumored (confirmed?) pricing of 14 points, I'd be tempted to run 6 of them.

>>47153244
Gladiator cost is 14 from a dev post

Honestly the sentry made out real well. Lost 1 point of def, gained 1 point of mat. It's going to be the main battle titan now, with it having reach and having a stronger charge than the gladiator. Gladiator will be a bit cheaper and still needed for its animus, and bronzeback will still be a combat monster for when you really need to bust down some heavies, but the sentry is way more durable than both of them and much more potent in melee at mat 6 than it was before, even if it does go down to fury 3.

>>47153244

I actually like the way Skorne seems to be developing.

I hate that the BB is easier to shoot to death BUT he and the other elephants are still armor crackers.

However, I look at the Razor Worm, the Anagonizer with Repulsion and the Rhinodon who will also be beefy and have Spiny Growth. They are all control or scenario pieces.

I have always liked that a lot of Skornes power comes from their beasts but they lacked any real control before and I like that being rolled back into their beasts as well.

Razor Worms look cool but I doubt they're all that great in MK3. PP has set some of the PC for Lights higher than certain Heavies, so I don't suspect that you'll be able to spam many of these. Between its innate abilities, boxes, and animus I suspect it will be like PC 10+.

>>47153169
What? Those fuckers. I was so glad someone was standing up to PP and now this.

>>47153321

I kind of hope he keeps Fury 4 but, even if he does drop to Fury 3, he will basically have the same output as a warjack anyway (more if you can get the tuck attacks in).

I wonder if he is keeping Locker.

>>47153169
How so?

>>47153362
I doubt it. They don't have a lotta boxes, plenty of stuff gets through cover, and it's still a 13/16 with a POW 12. I think they'll be 8 or 9 points.

>>47153819
I actually bet Hunter's going to go away to some degree.

But yea, if it doesn't pick up any offense, I can see it staying cheap. Like, it's a tough cookie to kill, but offensively it's not bringing much to the table.

>>47153350
If the Rhino can either pick up some POW or some MAT, I think it will be fine.

What's interesting is I wonder what will replace Back Plates, since it's doing the same job as Spiny Growth.

Or maybe it keeps both and you just force them to take a d3+d6 for freestrikes against an ARM21 model? ARM23 if you've got the Agonizer up there.

>>47153373
>I was so glad someone was standing up to PP and now this.
Well, with the way things work in the US, I'm honestly not surprised PP is trying to impliment something like this. We don't have game clubs like in Europe, we only have stores that sell stuff. If those stores go under because people buy from online retailers, game clubs aren't just going to pop up over night and that is going to hurt sales.

It sucks, but I'm not surprised at all that PP is doing this.

File: Vanquisher___Warmachine_by_kiiiat.jpg (450KB, 768x793px) Image search: [Google]

450KB, 768x793px

>>47154240
Yes, but they don't have nearly the marketshare needed to do something like this

Hell look at the music industry - even they couldn't force the market to uphold an out of date system.

Adapt or die, anything else is just delaying the inevitable and pissing people off

>>47154240
What are they doing? I asked and no one answered.

>>47154359
PP said they're reduce the flow of goods to online stores that were selling at a huge discount.

>>47154359
Online retailers offering significant discounts (looks like in excess of around 10% off MSRP) are being put on a "free rider" list. Those on the list will have their shipments of new product delayed.

PP has enacted the policy in order to help brick and mortar stores who can't match the 25-30% discounts that online retailers can pull off.

>>47154359
They are basically forcing online retailers with no store to limit the discount on their products so brick and mortar stores can carry their items easier

>>47154408
Brick and Mortar stores are board game focused though, TBBT faux nerds are buying that shit up while actual nerds like us are being priced out of the market.

I basically pity buy at my store now.

>>47154492
>faux nerds
>I was into gaming before it was cool!

Inb4 some shitty infographic about them women and blacks are stealing our games

>>47154492
It's your community being small. Games like these need the store to have events and tables

>>47154492
My FLGS is actually having the opposite problem, himself.

Board games rarely get played in store, so the more he gets someone into them, the less likely they're to buy from him and just buy online.

>>47154528
my community is one of the most competitive in the country but the store is 50% board games

>>47154492
Board games get played here a lot, bot they're mostly leeches money wise, ordering most of their games off the internet.

>>47153881

Really, he should just loose "Back Plates" entirely if Spiny Growth just does it's job.

He definitely needs a Mat buff. A dmg buff would be nice but I don't think it's necessary. It would be cool if he got a 4th attack from his horn though, even if it was only P+S 14. Maybe he could have a Horn attack with Brutal Charge attached to it so he could get a P+S 18 attack on the charge with his horn. Just for funsies.

Part of me wants him to just have Amuck as an ability. I.E. he just always has boosted attack rolls with special attacks.

>>47154852

Minions here, I look at the rhinodon to see what happens to the spitter. I honestly hope he looses back plates for the shell rule the skorne bugs have.

The rhinodon is in a wierd spot for skorne, being an anti-infantry heavy in a faction with plenty of that. Maybe do something cool with that ankalosaurus tail.

My FLGS has a 50pt tourney coming up. We've always done 35pt ones, so this is a first for me.

How's my lists? Saeryn is my anti-Cryx list, as bane-thrall spam with Satyxis is the boogeyman list in my Meta. eVayl is for pretty much everything else.

Points: 50/50
Saeryn, Omen of Everblight (*5pts)
* Harrier (2pts)
* Raek (4pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Angelius (9pts)
* Angelius (9pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
* Zuriel (10pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
2 Spell Martyrs (2pts)
Strider Deathstalker (2pts)
Succubus (2pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)
------------------------------------------------------
Points: 50/50
Tiers 4
Vayl, Consul of Everblight (*6pts)
* Harrier (2pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Ravagore (9pts)
* Ravagore (9pts)
* Scythean (8pts)
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
1 Spell Martyr (1pts)

>>47154359

They buy with a cheap currency, and re-sell with British pounds/American dollars, giving huge discounts and making a profit.

It literally rips the very foundation from the companies that tries to expand, and lets not forget that this hobby is extremely thin with fans when in comparison to many other hobbies.

Don't know if its the "manchild living in moms basement" ideal that craves the need for cheaper models, or if we simply are a pack of hoarders trying to quench our thirst for bigger armies we will never have the discipline to paint.

And don't give me that "buh its so expensive!" Well yea, its a hobby. Its a luxury, its not for everyone to enjoy, get used to that fact! Its a privilege not a right as the Americans say it.

>>47156052
Oh, and Fuel Cache objective for both of them.

>>47156059
>They buy with a cheap currency, and re-sell with British pounds/American dollars, giving huge discounts and making a profit

Despite these online sites being based in the US? Yeah it's sure some big international money changing thing anon, you sure got 'em.

>It literally rips the very foundation from the companies that tries to expand

You don't understand how distribution works do you? PP makes the same money whether a unit is sold in a store for full retail or online, or hell even sold at a loss in a sale. It's all the same to them except now PP wants to make some of moral crusade about it.

>And don't give me that "buh its so expensive!" Well yea, its a hobby. Its a luxury, its not for everyone to enjoy, get used to that fact! Its a privilege not a right as the Americans say it.

Induring "oh you can't afford exclusive feces! Only certain people can afford to eat this shit. Plebs can't have it"

>>47156243

Ok, Ill give you an extremely simple example that you can even look up yourself on, lets say GW main site, as they had this problem years ago and publicly addressed it.

A Zombie Dragon is £36, but cost 176PNL, when you recalculate this it turns out the Dragon is indeed £5 cheaper in Poland. This of course is only by the limited amount we, the public" can see this. But apparently the profit (or discount in this case), gets a lot more clear when your running a bruises. At least thats what GW said was to blame when they forced owners of "only online shops" to actually get a real life store to be able to sell their products. It was a small step to get rid of a scam that cost the company big money.

>Makes the same money as...

So no they don't. For instance, if you buy something second hand, the product has been used several times but only one purchase was made. The same goes with my currency trick, think of it as trading money, but only having a product as a middle man.

>I'm poor, and I'm not ashamed to admit it

Its not a question of plebs not being able to afford it, its a question to not live outside your wallet. I did a full time post on WIP about a year ago, actually ending up having to teach a major part of /tg/ what a fucking budget was! Its ridiculous.
And yes, I stand by the idea that if you feel you cannot afford it, you cannot enjoy it.

Any good places other than ebay to go if I wanted to unload my collection?

>>47156479
So let me get this straight - major online US based sites like MM and Warstore were secretly trading in their dollars for Nepalbucks or whatever and buying massive quantities of PP merch to exploit the tiny money exchange discrepancy?

And because of that PP decided to dictate what online retailers can charge the public (not what they pay PP, but what the retailer can charge us)?

I know you want to show off your associates in econ, but you're a fucking retard.

>For instance, if you buy something second hand

Not the same thing, don't pretend it is. PP isn't shutting down Bartertown or the trading side of Dakkadakka or anything like that.

>And yes, I stand by the idea that if you feel you cannot afford it, you cannot enjoy it.
>god this exclusive feces taste delicious!

It's not about budget, it's about a company charging more for a product that hasn't improved (and in the case of all the restic crap declined in quality) while using their pull to try to dictate prices. It's about having a free market or swilling corporate cock until your brain dissolves in the semen.

And I see which one you picked.

>>47156659
I used ebay and massively underut myself, sold two armies for $500 in a week. You can move it fast there, but don't expect anything more than your bottom bid.

I want to get faction decks, but already there's been 3 cards revealed that have had errors on them that they say have already gone to printers. I don't want to waste my money if 15% or so of the cards so far have been wrong and will need updating.

>>47156052
I think seraph, angel x3, ravagor, max hexhunters, pot, spell slave, shepard x2 is a much better vayl2 list. Scythians are big useless pussies.

Also your pairing is weird, you dont really have an armor cracker.

>>47156722


Hmm good to know. I've just finished taking inventory so I'll have to figure out a rough asking price.

>>47156700
That guy being a retard aside, there was a legitimate problem with US brick-and-mortar retailers being unable to stock PP product because they were stuck between selling at a massive discount to match the online retailers and losing money, or not selling at a massive discount and still losing money because nobody would buy.

I'm a PG for several stores and the managers of all of them have expressed this problem at some point. We managed to stop the bleeding at one by doing monthly leagues and attaching a larger discount to league buy-in, but that's a band-aid at best. The others resorted to only stocking starter-product because nothing else was likely to move.

Stores being unable to stock a game is a quick way for that game to not be played in that store, and a game that has no public presence will eventually start dying.

And for the record his elaborate currency manipulation theory is bunk, online sellers manage to sell at a discount because they don't have to worry about stocking stuff and having it sit on shelves forever. Physical retailers NEED shelf stock, and in a game as big as Warmahordes a lot of that shelf stock is going to sit there looking pretty for a long ass time unless they've got a fuckmassive regular Warmahordes customer base, and not like 8 dudes like a lot of shops will have.

>>47156954
I only have 2 Angelius, so a third one isn't going to happen. I also don't have hex hunters.

As for armor cracking. I don't really have to worry about it with my meta. No troll players, 1 Menoth player that runs a few lights. The rest is not-tryhard-Cygnar (No Haleys), Circle, and a small smattering of Khador and Ret.

And how are Scythean's useless? They're the go-to model for heavy warbeast/warjack killing.