Warhammer 40k general

Tell me about your dudes /tg/. What's their background? What have they done? Do they have anything special about their model to make them unique, and if so what?

Second for fortifying this thread

Most of the Tau Commander builds on the tg wiki seem to completely disregard that it has Bs5. are there any solid builds that I can make use of it's shooty shootyness?

Third for "No Vendettas for IG anymore".

God damnit Skies of Death. You had so much promise but in the end you just made things more complicated without adding anything extra fun to this game.

>>47038475
Drone controller son, and blasts weapons. Or melta if you want guaranteed hits on vehicles

>>47038475

I'm partial to taking the Markerlight and Target Lock sig system from IA3, adding a missile pod and drone controller, extra wargear to taste, and sticking her in a drone unit.

BS5 drones batter one thing with a lot of markers, Commander split-fires one BS5 light and two missiles at a seperate target.

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>>47038453

I saw a few days ago about a missions taking place in space (think it was from a Tau book or something) does anyone still have it?

>>47038476
what happened to my poor vendettas

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>>47038520

>>47038516
Actually that sounds pretty sweet. Could I substitute the missile pod for the Cyclic? Range is far less, but more shots at the same stats and a S8 blast is attractive to me.

How often do you guys use buildings such as bunkers, sky shield platforms, bastions, etc in your armies and games?

>>47038626
Pretty much never unless a narrative revolves around one.

>>47038476
>No Vendettasfor IG anymore
They're still in the codex tho. Better yet, they can still voluntarily snap-fire.

Isn't a Vendetta just a Valkyrie with TL'ed Lascannons? Are we sure that the new Valkyrie datasheet doesn't have the lascannons as an option?

>>47038543
>>47038650
Rules in Skies of Death doesnt include Vendetta. And the rules arent optional, they replace the old ones from codexes. So since Vendetta lacks agi/pursuit/combatrole, its unsuable.

(OR you could not be a autistic retard and use the cost from IG-codex and just add same agi/pursuit/role from Valkyrie)

>>47038523
Yeah what happened to collecting all the special battle conditions rules into one PDF anyway? That was a cool and handy idea.

>>47038685
Vendetta is mentioned in the book's fluff but lacks rules completely, either as its own entry or upgrade for Valkyrie.

>>47038698
Holy shit that sounds awesome.

>Vendetta has no GW model
>Imperial Guard players are surprised when it doesn't get rules
Conversions more complex than face-drilling are verbotten.

Unless the next CSM release is the biggest release in Games Workshop history, CSM is going to lose tons of options.

>>47038698
>>47038739
I'm working on it

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C'mon guys, as more people votes the better!

http://www.strawpoll.me/10058025

>>47038770
Im a bit concerned as IG player. Neither does Rough Riders or Veterans have models, either. Its a shame if RR's would dissapear but losing veterans would be army-breaking for some people like myself.

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>>47038786
Happy to hear its in someone's good hands rather than forgotten about. You're doing the Emperor's work anon.

>>47038820

Yeah, losing busty abhumans would be a serious blow.

>>47038795
If you tell people what its about people might give a fuck.

>>47038696
I figured you were just meant to use the Valk's stats anyway.

>>47038795
>No AdMech

This rustles my cogitators something fierce, anonymous unit.

>>47038721
We'll see on the 7th or whenever pictures or an epub is ready.

I don't have much faith in a warseer leak from a guy that didn't know the names of the weapons.

>>47038820
I think veterans would work like the SW units unless I missed some kind of characteristic they have, since I don't play IG
The box is for the Grey Hunters, but is used to make Blood Claws and Wolf Guard too until they chose to separate them in 3 boxes with literally the same options but different quantities, to the point that the box for 5 Wolf Guards will never be brought since you can buy a box of 15 Blood Claws for less than 3 times the cost

>>47038820
Vets don't need models, just like Vanguard and Sternguard marines don't technically need them, because they're just marines. The only thing that would be a problem are the shotguns, which you can always scratch off their entry, if you must. Other than that, Vets don't have anything you can't use regular IG kits to make.

There's always a chance for a plastic RR and Veteran dual kits with the next codex release. They did do ogryns, didn't they?

>>47038770
Which are the CSM units that lack a model?

>>47038990
Not that guy nor am I a CSM player but from memory noise marines and thousand sons are reliant on conversion packs?

>>47039075
That doesn't mean they lack a model, most kits like that are X kit with Y upgrade parts.

the Vendetta has a forgeworld kit. They're probably just moving it back to the forgeworld line and it will get an update there.

until then just use the valks numbers.

>>47039075
That's true, but I don't think they would be squatted because they only have a conversion pack despite how shit it is. I was actually once thinking of making a Slaanesh CSM army but I dropped the idea after trying to modeling the Noise Marines
Also, as far as I can tell, those are really iconic units, I don't think they would be on the top of the list of units that will receive a new model
>inb4 GW go full "It's not Khorne, who cares" and squat them anyway

>>47039075
daemonic mounts come to mind.only whfb had models for it, i think everyone else just uses those bits as usual

>>47038889
Yeah they tell me everytime, I assume people include them into the IG

>>47039129
They'll always have a spot for the cult troops, although I can maybe see them shaking up either the price/rules for Thousand Sons and making Bezerkers better somehow.

If they were going to squat a CSM unit I reckon it's going to be the war talons

>>47039114
>just moving it back to the forgeworld line

so it really is never going to get an update. Great.

>>47039159
After all they are both AM :^)

>>47039114
>until then just use this reasonable and sensible solution

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA. That's not how 40k works. You can't do things like apply common sense to get around issues, you can only play the game with the exactly worded rules that GW and FW give you.

So, has cutting everything with no models from the rulebooks actually done anything at all to slow down 3rd party models and conversion bits, or is it just a huge loss of variety and fuck you to converters left with useless models for no reason?

>>47038325
I've not played 40k since, like, 2nd. Or whatever 2000 was. But my Daemon Prince (I think I ran him as a Khorne one) killed my mates Bloodthirster. Granted Kharn was also involved. I pretended it was a Bloodthirster which has murderer most of the mortal dudes Hive and made him turn to Chaos to get power, just so he could kill the Bloodthirster.

Since then it's been mainly WHFB stuff.

But I did make a SoB OCDONUTSTEEL thing, called the Order of the Flaming Rose. Their colours were/are (I'm not 100% sure yet); white (represents the rose; this is their hair), red (the blood the rose has soaked up), black (the darkness of Chaos/Non-Emperor things) and gold (the flames of the Emperor, given through the SoB themselves).

Then I realised that is probably already a colour scheme for an Order, so I might have to re-work that at a later date. But I wrote backstory. The abbey is on top of a mountain/inactive volcano, accessible only by spaceport, the leaders basically do what the Spartans/Greeks used to do, which is where we enter my magical realm, so we'll stop there.

Alas, GW don't seem to care about the SoB so I'm following several non-GW miniature companies in the hope they make some proxies.

Hey, giant lorefag here. I just finished reading the Eisenhorn trilogy which I thought was generally fantastic.

I'm aware that the story is continued through Ravenor and there's apparently another trilogy in the works, starting with Pariah.

I was just wondering if anybody else has read Ravenor. Is it worth buying/as good as Eisenhorn?

>>47039206

I have 27 customised Crypteks.

Now the unit type is just "Cryptek".

>>47038696
That doesn't matter. It's in your codex, so you can use it. Just like you can use Space Pope or Tycho despite them being dead in fluff.

Either way, lots of stuff is missing. For example, in Warzone: Damocles, the Super Heavy Squadron is missing several SH variants, including the incredibly popular (both in fluff and model wise) Stormblade. I highly doubt the Stormblade has been dropped from the game and thus you can't use it. So I just assume it was a mistake on GW's part to not include the Stormblade in the formation.

My suggestion is to email GW's rule people to see if a FAQ comes out.

While I don't have the book myself (yet) my guess is you'd just use the same stats as the Valk, as isn't the Vendetta a combat version of the Valk?

>>47039206
No
If you bought a model for the doom of malanti, that's your own fucking problem. It's a zoanthrope now.
3rd party bits sellers are still going strong, if not stronger.

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>>47039220
>OCDONUTSTEEL thing, called the Order of the Flaming Rose
>it's actually the most generic color scheme the sisters of battle are known for

I miss the days when there were conversion guides for special characters in codices

I asked Forge World some questions.

1. Sevrin Loth cannot be used in a Librarius Conclave, despite being a 'vanilla' Librarian, as he isn't in the restriction area. However, as usual, if your opponent is OK with it, it's sound. Otherwise, you cannot.

2. Sevrin Loth using the new Angels of Death pysker powers has stumped them. They are not sure and are passing it on the rules team. This is annoying as Sevrin Loth has the Space Marine Faction rule, which the Angels of Death supplement says is the only thing needed to be able to use the powers. Yet the 'stumping' might simply be them not sure if you can pick the ones you want from the new tables, like he can with the other stuff.

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>>47039284
Did I say exactly the way the colour works? I could have done all gold, with black edging and red emblems. Furthermore, theirs is brass, not gold.

I meant more like this, but less black.

>>47039310
Well it doesn't matter that much anyway
Unless your entire SM army is red scorpions... you won't get a game using him outside of tourney play

Does anybody have experience using Victoria Miniatures pieces in conversions?

I want to give some extra melta guns to my Cadian infantry squads, is this a good site to buy conversion bits from?

>yfw roll a Librarian Dreadnought (ML2) with Quickening + Electroshield. Or Quickening + Warpmetal Armour

Speaking of which, a Librarian Dreadnought doesn't count as embarked, does it? It's a character, right?

>>47039310
Loth can generate powers as usual from the new disciplines. He cannot choose specific powers like he can for some of the disciplines he has access to.

>>47039284
>>47039362
I want to make a bright pink sisters of battle army.
As a 22 year old male, would you make fun of me for this?

>>47039389
He's only embarked if you stick I'm in a Storm Raven

>>47039365
I know. I got into a discussion with a few other people over it and how it worked. Loth as a Technomancer with Blessing of the Machine, Warpmetal Armour and Machine Flense could cause some damage.

T5 Tacticals with FnP is pretty neat. Shame Helios Landraiders are poop.

>>47039389
Why would he count as embarked?
If you're talking about the no vehicles restriction on some of the new powers, unless it says the psyker cannot be a vehicles you're good.

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>>47039362
that is true, did world of warcraft always look this terrible?

>>47039409
look man if you wanna paint your miniatures pink you gotta live with it, i don't really care

>>47039409
I'd laugh and make some jokes. But I wouldn't rub it in. If you want to do it, go for it. I thought of doing purple and pink once.

>>47039421
Thanks bra.

>>47039436
I dunno, I forget things really easily, didn't know if there was some special rule cause he had Psychic Pilot special rule and I couldn't remember if that counted as embarked in the special rule section.

>>47039438
Well in 2006ish it didn't, no. But it does look pretty bad, there is no 'depth' to the models, just flat texture. I quit by end of TBC so I dunno. I think they updated the models to look better.

>>47039432
The wording on Loth is clear. He can generate powers as usual, or select his powers from one of three specific disciplines. There's nothing to imply he would add these to that list.

>>47038949
But your box of shitters contains the weapons to arm the non-shitters. A box of guardsmen doesn't have the good special weapons, only flamers and grenade launchers. And no-one runs Veterans if they aren't going to give them meltas or plasma. Fuck buying special weapons teams separate

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>>47039438
>>47039409
I posted these before, but they're neat. Colourful armies can look great.

>>47039206
3rd party is making models for units that don't even exist. WargameExclusive has revealed previews for Tau jetbikes, and some their strongest sellers are Inquisitor cars or Tau/Necrons/AdMechs with tits.

>>47038949
Yup, and no-one takes Ogryn because they're unbelievably shit and Bullgryn are just a tiny bit overpriced for what they can do.

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I had an idea for a new unit if they ever got around to an overhaul of the sisters range

>Living Saint
>20 foot tall mechanical statue
>Monstrous creature
>Comes base with an arm mounted flamestorm cannon and a multi melta mounted in it's eyes as well as a "book of litanies", a book shaped speaker carried in it's off hand that gives a 12" fearless and auto-pass Acts of Faith bubble
>Its act of faith gives the flamestorm cannon str8, ap1 armourbane and torrent
>Book of Litanies can be replaced with a str x2 AP1 armourbane "Meltasword"

>In Defense of the Shrine World: These imposing statues are the last line of defense on Imperial Shrineworlds. Such is their importance that their true nature is a secret from all but those tasked with their upkeep. As such, a Living Saint may be infiltrated within 1" of an enemy unit. However, if it is deployed this way, it begins the game in its Dormant State. While Dormant, it may not perform any actions, but also cannot be targeted by enemy attacks (but still may be hit on accident.)

To activate a dormant Living Saint, the controlling player must roll a d6. On turn 1, this roll must be a 6. Turn 2, a 4+. On the controlling player's turn 3, the Living Saint automatically becomes active.

>>47039462
Re-read the rules. That was 6th edition.

I quote:

>Any Psyker with the Space Marine Faction can generate their psychic powers from the Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis disciplines, in addition to any other disciplines they have access to.

Key words here
>Any
>Psyker
>Space Marine Faction
>in addition
>any other

so, by that rule, and the most recent official GW sanctioned rule supplement, Angels of Death (released April 2016), Loth can access those. The question is whether he can pick and choose the skills or have to roll randomly.

That's why. Just like 7th edition Grey Knights/Blood Angels supersedes 5th editions, unless you and your opponent(s) agree to use previous editions.

So either Angels of Death doesn't supersede the 6th edition FAQ from Forge World, or it does. If it doesn't, then I can discard anybody else using it.

>>47039526
So it's an Avatar?

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Is there a guide for these bunkers? The shot is from the 4e SM codex, but I has some recollection of seeing some sort of guide or details on the construction in a GW publication.

>>47039534
Pretty much, but not as quick or as good in combat

>>47039526
Cool idea. I'd personally like to see thinks like the Throne of Judgement as a regular vehicle. I'd also like a Cathedral 'tank'. Make it like the Tidewall Rampart, it moves across the battlefield on treads and is a building, with force fields, which can carry 10 models in it, with 10 fire ports. Doesn't count as moving either, so not forced to do snapshots. Gives Fearless + Stubborn to SoB around them. Maybe Fearless to Imperium units too.

>>47039528
Sure, Loth has access to and can generate powers from the new disciplines. He only has a special dispensation to select from Biomancy, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. Funnily enough, this means that, if he chooses to roll, he can only so so from the new powers.

>>47039608
That's what I meant. Sorry, I misunderstood.

The FW guys were passing this on and to discuss whether he can pick and choose or just roll as normal.

We good anon, we good.

>>47039608
>Funnily enough, this means that, if he chooses to roll, he can only so so from the new powers.

no. his choose powers ability is 'may' not 'must'.

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Does anyone have the old Lost & the Damned skirmish rules from the 13th Black Crusade event?

>ywn have Mephy and roll Electroshield

Why even bother?

>yfw Tycho has Blood Rampage but doesn't have a melee weapon

Which is a question, I swear I read, if a unit doesn't have a specifically mentioned melee weapon, he is assumed to have a CCW. So, with that in mind, since he has a Bolt Pistol, he does get +1A for having two 'melee' weapons, right? Either way it's pointless. Dude is hitting at S4 AP-. Dude won't drop anything. Hell, he'd probably not even kill Sister Repentia which don't even have an armour save (thou they are 6++)

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>>47039647

whats this about units without models being disallowed? is this some new GW mandate or what?

>>47039643
Correct, but he's never given a list of disciplines to generate from. It would make sense to assume that it's the same three.
>>47039635
Ah, so you acknowledge what the rules say but are fishing for an advantage.

>>47039686

A company made 5th edition tyranid drop pods then won the resulting lawsuit, so now we can't have anything nice.

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Rate the traitor legions from greatest to least.

>>47039686
Games Workshop no longer publishes rules for models that don't have an actual Games Workshop model. It's a reaction to the reaming they got in the Chapterhouse lawsuit.

>>47039658
The bolt pistol counts for the mandatory CCW, so you don't get an additional attack just for having a pistol.

>>47039709
In terms of what? Individual power has Thousand Sons at the top.

>>47039702
>>47039712
yeah but is this more recent then that lawsuit?
are you guys just debating on whether things like rough riders and vendettas will get squatted?

>>47039727
Your favorite, I guess.

>>47039733
Dumbass, just read the thread and apply an ounce of critical thought.

>>47039736
Thousand Sons
Black Legion
Iron Warriors
Alpha Legion
Night Lords
Word Bearers
Emperor's Children
Deathguard
World Eaters

>>47039709
>>47039736
My favourite?

1. Emperor's Children
2. Thousand Sons
3. Deathguard
4. Word Bearers
5. World Eaters
6. Iron Warriors
7. Black Legion
8. Alpha Legion
9. Night Lords

In terms of actually getting shit down Black Legion tops the list, probably followed by Iron Warriors

>>47039709
With Gaps for relative levels of greatness

Iron Warriors
Alpha Legion
Night Lords

Death Guard
World Eaters
Word Bearers

Thousand Sons
Emperors Children

Black Legion(Took the coolest colour scheme and aesthetic and decided to replace it with black.)

>>47039727
>Individual power

What? Khayon and the Sorcerers of the Black Legion would wreck the Thousand Sons. They already did.

Khayon is called King Breaker because he defeated Magnus and forced him to kneel before Abaddon.

>>47039736
>Thousand Sons
Badass Sorcerers, tragic villians, Tzeentch is the best chaos god
>Alpha Legion
As Alpharius, I love my legion.
But seriously, their penchant for black ops is great and there's plenty of instances that have them pulling off metal gear levels of sabotage in space.
>Iron Warriors
Mathematical, love artillery, and don't give a shit about casualties. They're Soviet Battle Doctrine in space which I still favor.
>Word Bearers
The fuckers who started it all. They fight out of a legitimate belief in Chaos rather than for their own power.
>Emperor's Children
Things shall get loud now!
>Black Legion
NPC faction.
>Death Guard
Outside of Typhus' shenanigans, pretty useless.
>World Eaters
No actual hate, but they're kinda boring, along with other Khornates. Most media seems to think that they make up the entirety of the Chaos legions, including fucking sorcerers. So they're even more of an NPC faction.
>Night Lords
Crawling in my skin, these bat wings on our helmets look ridiculous.

>>47039865
Khayon is an awful Mary Sue, and ADB is desperately in need of an editor willing to reign in his retarded tendencies.

Khayon is also a Thousand Son turned Black Legionnaire.

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>>47039894
All Black Legionaries come from traitor legions. They abandoned their allegiances to their primarchs and legions to be a part of Abaddon's Black Legion.

Khayon's power only shined when he turned his back on the Thousand Sons. Magnus brought him only weakness and regret, Abaddon elevated him to glory and power and gave him a sense of purpose. This sense of purpose is what allowed him to challenge his own demigod father and defeat him. It's what makes the Black Legion the greatest in the Eye and beyond and the Imperium's direst foe.

Anyway, Ahriman is more of a mary sue for seemingly knowing the true name of Be'lakor (which should be impossible) and having the power to bind him.

>>47038516
Yeah - this is a really good build - certainly the most efficient markerlight delivery method in the hunter contingent. It also tends to be a magnet for early barrage strikes.

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>>47039961
More about Ahriman.

Of all the servants (willing or not) in Tzeentch's thrall, what makes him the most special? (picture related)

Tzeentch's respect for Ahriman is never explained. He just does.

>>47039984
I tend to find it's okay most of the time, due to extreme range and JSJ.

Usually the unit will lose some members by the end of the game, but it's fairly rare to lose the entirety including the warlord. People tend to focus more on the agressive damage dealing units, and heavy suits left intentionally just vulnerable enough to draw attention to themselves.

Removing my markerlights is certainly an excellent plan, but you'd be surprised how few people do so.

>>47040008

While this is pretty cool I had always hoped Ahriman would become some powerful Warp denizen

>>47039409
Nah. There are a lot of closet faggots playing this game. Nobody would mind.

>>47039866
Barring your Penchant for the Thousand Sons, We are much alike, anon.

It's not that i dislike the Thousand Sons, I just don't see any reason to like them

>>47039409

Why? Why Pink?

>>47039961

>This sense of purpose is what allowed him to challenge his own demigod father and defeat him

Daemonic Primarchs are the biggest joke in 40k next to an Eldar Avatar

>>47040035
Dude.

Dude.

All my competitive builds pack biovores for this reason. Tau are totally castrated by dropping s4ap4 barrages on markers until they are gone - or at least cannot remove cover. I pray I never meet a tau player rocking tetras.

Same thing against eldar. There is always some glass hammer hiding behind a building in need of smiting.

The vores are not nearly as good against imperium, but you take your chances.

>>47040141
Space wizards n shit

Seriously though Ahriman's quest for the knowledge of the black library is pretty cool

>>47038626

I occaaionally use a fortress of redemption in my Khorne Daemon army.

>>47039492
Is there a guide to paint like that?
Because in my opinion that's the perfect way to represent the "change" part of Tzeentch maybe using darker colors

>>47039569
Looks as though it has the Rhino frame for the top of the bunker, and then it was just plasticarded with 40kbits. Could be wrong though.

>>47040236
be really fucking good and blend a lot

I'm fairly sure the girl who painted them is a Golden Daemon winner

>>47040172

Good show, I'd actually quite like to face a Tyranid player who uses strategy and synergy, haven't done so since I played Necrons.

Last guy I faced did Warrior spam, a few small blobs of Gaunts, one of each of the codex 'thropes, a Tyrannofex and then just sort of aimlessly rushed and hoped his Flyrant would compensate.

I was actually playing Skitarii that time, but the point stands: Taking a bottom rung codex then not trying to build a solid strategy? Eh.

>>47039961
>should be impossible to know

really difficult but there are ways. you make a few deals with daemons or steal information from grey knights/inquistion/harlequins/eldar

Shoudn't there be a small portion of angelic warp beings?
Very few fead by the remaining positive emotions in the warp?

>>47039771
I like this guy.
I disapprove Death Guard on the 3rd place, they should be much lower, but everything else is right.

>>47040301
Way back in the 90s there were, but no one has mentioned it for decades

>>47040093
I always babied the idea that some great truth Ahriman discovered in the Black Library would somehow allow him to basically become what would become Tzeentch at the beginning of the universe, in a sort of Oroboros way.

>>47040301
>>47040317
Angels of Fire that spawn out of the Firetide (Light of the Astronomican) to fight daemons and Eldar ghosts are mentioned in the "Talon of Horus" novel.

Hey guys,

Dawn of War channel posted this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YLkIjJtbg

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>>47040317
how sad

mfw there will be never an cosmic good doing space harmony buddha saving your child from a hungry deamon

>>47040008
Sauce?

>>47040348

*3*rd May

*3* PM (gmt)

*3*0 seconds...

Dawn of War 3... pls

then again, I'll take a new last stand character too

>>47040334
I like that idea.

>>47040348
>Complete waste of time
So it's a DoW III demo.

>>47040301
a popular theory is that the legion of the damned returned from the warp like this. there was also a grey knight special character that got help from friendly ghosts. it's not that common since ya know the warp has become hell

>>47040362
not enough good deeds but the damage is done. no amount of walking old ladies through battle fields and giving orks choppas will make hell nice

>>47040348
Yay, it's on my birthday!

>>47040170
I did my pink horrors in the most garish pink I could and I picked up a taste for it.

Now I want to do a whole army in the brightest colours I can. changeling pink, moot green, liberator gold and chaos black. I'd do their faces unblemished white with massive black makeup around their eyes and on their lips.

I suppose I would would be better off playing chaos but not even the sisters codex is half as shitty as the chaos one.

>>47040376
"Ahriman : Unchanged".

Last book of the Ahriman series.

>>47040348
fucking finally

>>47040301
Negative emotions are stronger than positive emotions
If both are strong enough to spawn warp entities, the negative one will be stronger than the positive one, and will consume the weaker entity.

>>47040424
Oh cool
I've read the first two and I liked them (more the first)

Have death from the skies scans surfaced?

>>47040466
Release is the 7th.
The leaked version is in spanish.

>>47040301
i think all the good emotions feed the emperor

>>47040478
Thanks anon

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>>47040445
>>47040408
Well, we have to start somewhere. Hell needs to be great again.

I do believe this because I am a man of hope

>>47040478
Is the leaked spanish version somewhere? My google-fu fails me and I cant find it.

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>>47038325
Serpent Lords Chaos Marines: Regional terror of the Hadryn Sector. Very heavily influenced by Aztec/Triple Alliance culture.

>Servants of Chaos Undivided
>Very, very heavily reliant upon prophecy and omens when determining their missions; they will do whatever prophecy or omens say they need to do (which can and has previously made them vulnerable to manipulation).
>12 Orders (Companies) led by a Lord of each Order, all of whom are directly subservient to the High Priest.
>All members are Soul Bound to obey their Lord and the High Priest, and cannot voluntarily disobey a direct order from their officers. These steps were taken after a massive internal war that decimated the Warband, ending with the High Priest opening a Warp Portal and flooding their fleet with Daemons to kill anybody who didn't support him.
>High Priest has personally bound and is in turn bound by a Daemon Prince of each Chaos God - these Daemon Princes act as guides and advisers, guiding the High Priest into making the correct decisions to advance the goals of Chaos as a whole
>The soul of the High Priest is promised to each Daemon Prince should he fail in his duties as a servant of Chaos - because the Daemon Princes cannot directly take control of him or the Warband without pissing off the other three, they largely are forced to get along (though still attempt to use the Warband for their own purposes) and steer him forward to the best of their abilities.
>Tactics favor ambush, insurgency tactics, brutal close combat, and control of information on the battlefield.
>Allies of the Black Legion - work alongside the Black Legion and help further their overarching goals in exchange for being allowed control of the Hadryn Sector and the Warmasters patronage.
>Due to the effects of Soul Binding, the Warband has a surprising amount of camaraderie, with many Marines actually considering each other friends and trusting one another (though betrayal and rebellion does occur).

>>47038325
They're a small Tau sept that Darkstrider led after Damocles. Following his concept of 'fight on foot' He relies heavily on Breacher Teams and Alie Auxilliaries for the bulk of the infantry contingent. He is supported by a small amount of battle-suits, designed to bring the necessary firepower to take down enemy armor and other heavily armed units.

I've got them in a jungle camoflague, the armor pieces of my infantry are a tan green with dark brown for the undershirts and such.

It mainly makes use of the Allied Advance Cadre for Bs4 Kroot with shrouded, while Pathfinders, Breachers and a Ghostkeel advance quickly and secure rear-line objectives.

>>47040509
text transcript only

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>>47040501
>I do believe this because I am a man of hope
I know someone who you would love to meet then, he has a similar mindset and is also quite interested in changing things around there.

>>47040501
another factor is the warp gods or gods in the setting. there aren't a lot of good or at least nicer gods. the emperor never focused on doing holy things like empowerment until he got smacked by horus (it might be a side effect of being desperate) and he could probably have elevated people to space marine strength if living saints are anything to gauge by. the eldar gods are dead, weak, or not powerful enough. mork and gork could do more but they're off fighting each other.

>>47040348
Ok, if it's an actual new character for the Last Stand, PLEASE be an Adeptus Mechanicus Techpriest

>>47038325
a small cadian ragtag guerilla force cut off behind chaos lines.

with no hope of getting anywhere near the front, they hit supply convoys and VIP targets with smash and grab style attacks, favouring hellhounds, wyvern tanks, chimeras, low profile fast ambush tactics.

i lost 11 games in a row against my friends ultras, so i fluffed it that every day my commander woke up, and while he was losing a battle to chaos, the ultras showed up, but attacked HIM.
this went on day after day, week after week, groundhog-day style, until one day he breaks and attacks the space marine force first.

then he realises this is the real day, and the rest were chaos-implanted dreams. Tzeench wins again.

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>>47040516
I like it, except for the color scheme. I get its going for the aztec feel, but it feels off to me. The dark green and light blue mix is just strange.

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So I was wondering, what exactly does Adeptus, Astra, Astartes, and all those other words mean, its not latin is it?

>>47040596
>>47040384
They confirmed over twitter that the Necron Overlord was going to the last one.

>>47040617
low gothic

>>47040617
its "gothic" which is really just pseudo latin.

Basicly you take a word and make it sound latin-y

is taking a meltagun on a knight useful at all?

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>>47040516
Additional fluff:

>Their rituals and practices require a fuck ton of slaves to be sacrificed - one Order is devoted entirely to leading slave raids and taking prisoners; Astartes are the most valuable, then Eldar, then Human, then everything else.
>Autosacrifice is extremely common in their rituals due to Warband belief that everything has a cost, including the Gods favor - in exchange, you have to bring them more glory than they are willing to bestow upon you
>Spawn are reviled and feared, and viewed as a literal interpretation of what happens when your faith in the Gods isn't strong enough. In addition, the Soul Binding process has a tendency to create Spawn, further reinforcing the belief that it's divine ordainment that creates Spawnhood.
>Have a personal beef with the Black Templars, who burned their homeworld to ash and kicked their ass into the Hadryn Sector millenia ago.
>Overarching goal aside from humiliating Black Templars is to open up a new Warp Rift and consume the entire sector in a Warp Storm, bringing the Gods into Reality. Also think that overthrowing the Imperium is pretty cool too.
>Blood is the currency of their warband - their own blood, slave blood, enemy blood, all has its own price and proper uses in their society and belief system, from anointing weapons and wargear to offerings to the Dark Gods (Higher-quality Blood is considered more worthy of offerings, because sacrifice only has meaning if the object sacrificed is of value).
>Sacred colors are Green, Turquoise accents (much more muted than in these pictures) and gold trim, as well as black being a potent religious symbol.

>>47040645
Not really?
Most of the time you'll fire your giant guns at big targets and use your stubber to paint a target to charge

>>47040645
Its either that or the heavy stubber. Ive gotten a few melta shots off before a charge. Neither is particularly useful.

>>47040617

It's latin, it's just casual sci-fi/fantasy latin.

Not accurate, but there's not actually any reason you should give a damn.

Those words are "Adepts" (fucking duh) space (You should also have been able to work that one out on your own, Astronaut, c'mon man) and then a reference to the obscure godess Astarte.

>>47040516
>Bound to a demon prince of each god
Dude, you fucked hard your own lord sorcerer
Poor guy
>Heavily influenced by Aztecs
They should have a weird chaotic-azter calendar of some kind, and do loads of human sacrifices (even more than other warbands)

I like your guys so far

>>47040614
IRL the turquoise is much more muted. I'd post pics, but I'm at work.

The warband is HUGE into symbolism, and Turquoise is symbolic of the Gods blessings and of wealth alongside Gold. It's only on pauldrons and other important things like weapons - the rest of Quetzal green or gold accent.

>>47040645
I'll pretty much always take it. My knight find itself tackling tough targets like heavy vehicles and monstrous creatures. Usually that 1 HP/wound off it is very useful.

>>47040645

You got a few points left over in a pure Knight list? Then it's great for filling them in.

>>47040631
The it's defenitelly happening, dawn of war 3!

>>47040652
>>47040692
Well if it's more muted then I bet it works much better. The lore is pretty great too. Good 40k incorporation of the aztec feel. I wonder what units they directly favor. You have like a 1000 or 1500 pt list that kind of defines an average build for them?

>>47040723
Makes sense, release new Last Stand character to remind people DoW exists and then announce DoW3 a few months later during summer and release during the Christmas season.

>>47040682

Oh, they do, and he is. See >>47040652

High Priest Tezca is on the path to Daemonhood himself, and has allied himself with all four Chaos Gods through these Daemon Princes. They can't kill him, but he can't kill them either. Their fates are quite literally tied together, which was the idea he was going for when he underwent the binding rituals. He's crazy powerful and cunning, but the overwhelming majority of the time he's looking into the Warp, reading omens, and communicating with Daemons to actually lead the Warband outside of special occasions, instead deferring to the Conclave (ritual meeting of the Lords and the High Priest where their objectives are divined and assigned for the next 260 Terran Years). By binding himself and all these Daemons together, he has, in theory, prevented them from taking over his Warband and killing each other while also harnessing their power through tying the fate of the Warband to their own. They grow only if the Warband grows. In theory. in reality, they are constantly trying to one-up each other, but can only do so subtly and in minor ways, lest they piss off the other three too much. There's also a strong chance someone - or something - is altering their prophecies and omens to fulfil their own ends, and there's evidence mounting it may be their allies in the Black Legion.

>>47039159
despite the fact you feel the need to separate the grey knights from space marines

>>47040348
>BFG:A
>SH:Deathwing
>DoW3
future's so bright I gotta wear multi-spectral occulum

>>47040809
I considered them different enough
And i would have done the same with AM if I didn't forgot

>>47039719
That's so useful, eh? Rampage (+D3A) and S4 AP- :^). Fuck sake GW. Just remove Tycho from the fucking codex and give us a new Captain. Not that it'll happen, cause he has a model and a new Captain would require a new model or nothing at all.

>>47040348
Dawn of War 3 has been 'assumed' to be announced at E3. So this is surprising, if it is so.

>>47040813
Total War: Warhammer
40k: Martyr (Diablo Clone)

Then some meme games, but who knows.

>>47040776
You definetelly put a lot of work in their lore, I really like them

>>47040348
>Announcing: Hearthstone: 40k!

What happens if we duct tape two land speeders to the bottom of a Leman Russ?

>>47038626
I use a Void Shield Generator all the time. I often use a Bunker with an Escape hatch too, to get a 18"+Run move on a infantry unit

>>47040878
I'd probably play it... shamefully of course.

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>>47040889

>>47040878
If it has half of the RNGs hearthsdone does, I'll be the first playing it

>>47040889
dat'd be zoggin' fast, boss

>>47039765
>>47039771
>>47039841
>>47039866
Alpha legion best legion
And only a few know the truth

>>47040631

That's a shame, it was nice to get the Overlord none the less.

The Last Stand (adapted and expanded) could have been as big as LoL or Dota

I have no idea why the let something with such potential just wither and all but die.

>>47040348
>DoW3

Holy shit I was just brainstorming ideas for that shit not too long ago
Git Hype

>>47040961
The Overlord is so fucking over powered though.

>>47040889
you get two destroyed land speeders and an immobalized leman russ.

>>47041060

You're not wrong, he's a force of nature.

>>47041072

Wot if we paintz it red?

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I was reading through Blood Angels 7th edition again. I noticed something which is quite obvious, but I missed.

BA's aren't 1000 strong. They're more.

Okay, so there are:

>44 Tactical Squads (440 Tacticals)
>18 Assault Squads (180 Assaults)
>18 Devastator Squads (180 Devs)
>10 Scout Squads (100 Scouts)
>100 Veterans (100 Vets)

So that's 1000, right? But we then have...

>21 Sanguinary Priests
>14 Chaplains
>29 Sanguinary Guard
>31 Librarians
>35 Techmarines

That's 130 more Blood Angels 'Space Marines'. So we're at 1130 now.

Then we have

>Brother Corbulo
>Astorath
>Mephiston
>Brother Sepharan (Leader of Sanguinary Guard I assume)

So that's 4 more. We then have

>Chapter Master Dante
>10 Captains

So that's 11 more, so 15 more in total. We're now at 1145 'Space Marines'. You can then add 105 Techmarine Servitors, taking it up to 1250 'fighting' units. Then 900 'Chapter Equerries and Servitors'. Since it doesn't say how many of each, have to assume none are added.

So we're at 1250 in Blood Angels. That must mean that Black Templars and Space Wolves are above that too. But this also leads to the question of; who drives the vehicles? Is it another Space Marine? So could you add another 189 at least to control the vehicles, one each?

Do BT and SW have break downs like this?

>>47040878
You mean Warhammer Conquest?

>>47040897
>>47040924
I would to and I shamefully hope somebody makes a 40k TGC, but with cool animations. Regicide managed to do amazing animations for kills and shit, so do that for the cards

>>47041102
Not everyone bent over for Guilliman's Codex.

>>47039709
Word Bearers
Thousand Sons
Iron Warriors
Black Legion
World Eaters
Emperor's Children
Night Lords
Death Guard
Alpha Legion

What's some good monstrous infantry sized 40k units? I'm a pretty avid converter, but it's relatively hard to find things that monstrous infantry sized fantasy models kitbash into well.

>>47041102
You forgot the Death Company.

>>47041120
I know that exists, but normies don't. So if they make it a 40k TGC but with easier rules and stuff like Hearthstone, it'd be a different game.

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>>47041144
dis big git wots me warboss

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>>47040889
Listen here you meatbag, you keep your fleshy bits off of my baby.

>>47041102
the 1k marines limit isn't hard set and i don't believe the priests, officers, and other staff are counted.

>>47041178
>that warboss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3p_VuPIS2c

>>47041132
Indeed. I just wondered if there was a better break down of the BT and SW forces. Cause I've seen some anons on /40kg/ get upset that BT are now '1000 strong', when BA aren't and BT resisted the Codex, or at least exploited it, to get higher.

>>47041102
>BA's aren't 1000 strong. They're more.
Literally every single chapter has more, you fucking dunce.

A battle company has at minimum 107 men at arms (captain, chaplain, command squad, 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads). Potentially more if you account for the dreadnoughts and any attached drivers/gunners from the armoury.

Librarians, Honour Guard, Techmarines... all outside the limit.

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>>47041157

>>47041144
Convert ogres in to ogryns.

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>>47041198
'E'z not finished ya git

>>47041221
>Literally every single chapter has more, you fucking dunce.
Raptors don't, most crusading chapters don't either.

>>47041155
I was assuming they were all part of the entire thing, since nobody knows who will turn and it's usually on the eve of battle, but you reminded me...

>>47041102
There is also

>23 Dreads (let's assume a mix of 'regular' and Derado or whatever it's called)
>6 Furioso Dreads
>6 Librarian Dreads

Plus all the individual vehicles they have, I assume as I said 189 pilots.

>>47041249
That's only because they don't operate at peak capacity and/or don't have the time to replace casualties.

>>47041238
He looks like he was torn apart and then put back together by some doktor but they lost half of his bits.

>>47041191
So, if that's the case, couldn't a Chapter just go "Oh these 5000 guys? They're Priests/Officers/Others, not Space Marines!". I mean a Sanguinary Priest is still a Space Marine. Would still shred most things. Seems like a loophole to me Girlyman didn't think of.

>>47041221
I didn't think Raven Guard did, which was their whole 'thing'?

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>>47040752
I run them on the table slightly different from how they're described in the fluff, because I can't run them fluff-wise without making my own Chapter Tactics which I'm doing right now. Typically, it's roughly around this:

Chaos Lord - 170pts (Warlord)
>Jump Pack
>Burning Brand
>Lightning Claw
>MoS
>Sigil of Corruption

Sorcerer - 105pts
>Aura of Dark Glory
>Jump Pack
>MoS

Noise Marines(x2) - 311pts = 622pts
>5 Marines, 1 Champion
>Champion Doom Siren, Combi-Flamer, Lightning Claw
>4 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster
>Icon of Excess
>x5 Close Combat Weapons
>VotLW
-Rhino(x2) - 77pts = 154pts
>Destroyer Blades
>Combi-Melta
>Havoc-Launcher
>Dirge Caster

Raptors (x2) - 186pts = 372pts
>5 Raptors, Champion
>Champion Combi-Melta, Lightning Claw
>x2 Meltaguns
>MoS
>VotLW

Fire Raptor Gunship - 231pts
>Reaper Batteries
>Hellstrike Missiles
>Daemonic Possession
>Dirge Caster
>Searchlight

It's solid, but it has some weaknesses. I win more than I lose, though.

If I were to run them more true to the fluff, I'd run them as being Chosen, Terminator, and Raptor dominant, with high-tech vehicles (like my kickass Fire Raptor) as support.

>>47041102
But the thing is they are compliant.
It's a 1000 fighting force. The administration aspect (Techmarines, Apothecaries, Librarians, Chaplains, etc. Don't count vs the 1000 limit).
Just the 10 companies of 100. Which is also a guideline.

Exorcists are a codex compliant chapter, but they have two "Tenth" Companies due to their casualties in going from Scout to Battle Brother.

An Anon awhile went back that a "Codex Compliant" Chapter could be at near 2000ish by exploiting the loop holes.
Some loopholes were:
- Full company on loan to Deathwatch
- Full company on Crusade
- "Techmarine" company (have high count of Techmarines which don't count towards population max.

I forgot the rest. They seemed sound tho. But then again, I'm no Lorefag

>>47041102
>Brother Sepharan

Why can't this guy be a replacement for Tycho? Dude is listed alongside the other HQ's of BA like Astorath and Mephy. Kick Tycho out, he's dead in the fluff (like Space Pope) and put in the leader of the SG. Not that it'll fix anything, BA are so screwed in all areas.

Speaking of which, is the new SM flyer available for BA?

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>>47041249
>mfw raptors have to work extra hard to recover the sin of being in the Firewarrior game

>>47041288
At least 1200 is okay, but 5k? you get looks, the inquistion knocks at your door, the tech priests knock at your door, and the other chapters will be knocking at your door. at that point you might as well fund another chapter.

>>47041319
because Tycho is OC do not steal that one of the writers really liked so they made him an actual character

>>47041254
The Death Company are kept locked up and not counted against their 1K.

>>47041304
Interesting, my main point was I've seen some BT fans complaining they're '1000 like everybody else' and I was just flicking through and realised BA weren't. However, if that's due to special rules, then makes sense, I'm not that lorefag skilled. Either way, BT should be more than 1000. The last information I read stated there isn't a known number of crusades (but there is a BL book that says 10 is the max?) or how many are in each one?

>>47041288
>I didn't think Raven Guard did, which was their whole 'thing'?
Raven Guard are a codex-compliant chapter. If they're at full strength they'd be well over 1000.

You've got
>chapter master
>indeterminate amount of honor guard
>10 captains
>company command staff (50+)
>1000 fighting soldiers
>20+ dreadnoughts
>all the apothecaries
>all the librarians
>all the techmarines
>all the chaplains
>all the pilots/tank commanders/gunners/drivers
>the numerous chapter serfs and servitors

There were something like 1300 ultramarines on the big daemonkin diorama at warhammer world, and I'm reasonably certain they didn't include the tank crews in that number.

>>47041358
BTs get butthurt was there was a book where grand marshal helbrecht (their Chapter Master equalivant) literally comes out and states they're little more than a 1000. Which retconned Codex Black Templar which put them MUCH higher.

>>47041102
The Blood Angels also have a vast amount of land raiders. Double the Ultramarines

Guys do you know if there are some kind of a game style to not play with formations. My army doesn't realy have any, while both of my opponents seem to build armies out of only formations and free buffs.
Also is it legal to use normal GW models or counts as instead of FW ones, but use FW for them. I have a robotech valkyrie model and I would like to use it as an imperial knight.

>>47041332
Yeah but I want to play with guys fighting in M999.41, not some guy who copped it back in the day. Also he has no melee weapon and he has a one use MC Combi-Melta. The fucking Iron Hands get a combi-melta relic which never runs dry. BA have a 25 point Plasma Pistol without Gets Hot. Well, Salamanders can Master Craft their 15 point Plasma Pistol for free, removing the Gets Hot and getting a free re-roll as well. When your best Relic is a 20 point AP2 sword, you know you're fucked. Also, Shield of Baal relics are so bad it disgusts me. Might as well not have bothered. Oh, sorry, I mean, BA in SoB sucked. Necrons got godly good relics.

>>47041403
Unbound is legal.

>>47041178

I like the ork on the right with the shoota and ALL THE BULLETS.

>>47041332
the firewarrior game was pretty sweet considering it was a shitty early-00's shooter

Being able to play as a marine and stomp about a tau ship with a VGS that let me scream "FOR THE EMPEROR" was the tits.

>>47041403
>game style to not play with formations.
Talk to your opponent ahead of time and ask.

>Also is it legal to use normal GW models or counts as instead of FW ones, but use FW for them.

Nope. Games Workshop police show up and destroy any non-compliant models.

But in all seriousness, depends on your opponent / where you play.

GW shops probably won't let you use non GW / FW models.

>>47041409
Not at the store we play at. What I am asking if there is a way for me to stop them from using eldar and marine formations. I can't find anything in the rules, but am not very good at english either and I don't have the rule book at home.

>>47041432
The Fire Warrior game was awful in play and Lore accuracy.

>>47041337
Well that's interesting. I wonder how many are locked up on Baal? If we get Warzone: Baal, then maybe we'll see formations of 75+ Death Company.

>>47041369
See, I was thinking bout this, as I've always wanted to make a full Blood Angels chapter diorama. I mean everything. Vehicles + Men. It'd cost a lot, sure, but at some point. I also wanted to do the full Adeptus Custodes, but that would be like £15k+.

>>47041397
Has that been rectified at a later date? Is that the only mention of it? Could it be that Helbrecht said 1000 as the current number, based on losses and shit?

>>47041398
Yeah I noticed. Not that it does them much good on tabletop. Don't Dark Angels also have lots of Land Raiders and Terminator Armour?

>>47041369
They haven't been at full strengths since the heresy IIRC.

They've more than the times the failure rate of zygote implantation than regular marines.

>>47041144
Tyranids have loads of monstrous infantry units. Warriors, Biovores, Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes. Other than that, you've got Dark Eldar Grotesques, Chaos Daemons Fiends and Beasts of Nurgle, Chaos Space Marines Chaos Spawn, Mutilators, and Obliterators.

>>47041358
The easiest thing to track are the three crusade fleets. They operate in different parts of the galaxy and are like hubs smaller crusades split off from to fulfill more specific goals in the region. Each crusade fleet should at least be standard chapter strength, but only first founding chapters get to be cool apparently. Ultras most of all. So I'm switching to Death Korps and Tau for awhile.

The hard part to ballpark is, as said, the vehicle crew.

You got the base thousand, the 50 company command, the ten captains and ten chaplains, 20+ Dreadnoughts, the Chapter Master, his honour guard, then the librarians (three levels under chief), apothecaries and techmarines.

I don't know how many Librarians, apothecaries and Techmarines there are, but without them it's about 1096 without them, so round up to about 1130-1140.

Not a fucking clue how many vehicle crew an average chapter has.

>>47041448
Leaving the store and going to a GW store that actually follows the right rules and playing your army unbound to help you out.

>>47041446
Yeah I did ask them, if they could stop using formations, but they say those are legal. My army doesn't realy have formations in the codex. I was told by someone that there was some sort of supplement that let GK deep strike turn one, but it was never sold at my store.

So there is no way to make them let me play with non GW models?

>>47041403
Games Workshop 'bunkers' (ie; main stores) will want 80% Citadel model for every unit. So even mass conversions aren't allowed. However, this is dependent on the manager/staff, some will look away cause people playing the game is a better advertisement than nobody playing, but some get anal and demand you use Citadel only or gtfo.

As for FLGS, most won't give a shit, your specific opponent might, but most won't care.

>>47041456
Awful in play, maybe. But aside from the usual impossibly skilled FPS protagonist deal it was pretty faithful, lore-wise.

Only game to acknowledge the bolter's burstfire modes, too. And until Space Marine it was the only game to have a bolter that wasn't just a space M-16.

>>47041477
there is only one store in my city and the closest GW shop is in another country. Till I get a teleporter or a private jet , the chance to play at a GW is small.

>>47041465
I'm sure GW are trying to keep it vague. But yeah, founding chapters have it good, unless they're BA. Then you suuuuuck.

>>47041504
>pretty faithful Lore wise

Like the fully automatic pulse rifle?

>>47041509
Go into the Mega and download the GK formation, print it off and bring it or leave better bring it on your tablet. It's not a GW store so they won't care about something they don't sell.

>>47041546
Cool. thank you. Didn't knew printed out rules are legal to use.

>>47041511
shit's a rapid fire weapons, m80. I'm not sure if they've touched non-battlesuit units since 2001, but back when Fire Warrior came out there was no real fluff beyond the tabletop stats.

Now what you should have mentioned is the lasgun. Those actually did have fluff saying they're strictly semi-auto.

>>47041488
There is no format that stops formations.

As for GKs, suffer well Battle-Brother. They mean the Nemesis Strike Force in 7e codex. But it's not really a Formation.

>>47041510
I feel like BA just sorta got accidentally left behind this edition and that's a shame.

>>47041640
It's like the guy halfway through went "Fuck BA, I hate Matt Ward" and he fucked it up. So many things wrong with it. The Relics and Shield of Baal Relics are just so bad it makes me cry.

>>47041610
It's a very complicated matter but be very adamant about them not selling the supplement and therefore it doesn't matter.

>>47041621
Does it give free transports for strike squads at least, or at least buff some units. Right now it feels as if the whole codex was made out terminators, librarians and nemezis knights, and while they are ok vs IG, they realy suck vs eldar and marines.

>>47041661
Hey, at least you're not Orks.

>>47041617
Pulse Rifles are also strictly semi automatic weapons since the beginning.

That's why the pulse carbine existed.

>>47041706
>Pulse Rifles are also strictly semi automatic weapons since the beginning.
Uh, no. You can open the book to check for yourself.

Also carbines are a real thing. Look up the definition, please.

>>47041661
Have a good playgroup at least? That can make anything bearable.

>>47041661
I mean, sure, the BA relics are kind of boring, but they're not terrible the same way Ork or CSM ones are.

>>47041698
GKs are a "7e" codex.
Formations only happened Necron onwards aka "7.5e"

No. It's a 1-2 HQs 0-4 Elites, 0-2 FA, 0-2 HS, 1-6 Troops.

Bonus is you can roll for DS turn1.

GKs only have two formations, both over 2000pts+ minimum.

GK codex has awful internal balance with limited choices. It will be suffering until we get a major overhaul.

Because even when we get a formation detachment our internal balance is too skewed to matter. (Same problem Orks, CSM, Tyranids have)

Only thing GKs got going for them is NDKs and Imperium Superfriends.

>>47041754
Yes yes, I'm a /k/ommando and I full well know, but trying to bring actual fire arms logic into things such as this never works out. Especially when written by the British.

But I'll go find the proofs, but the pulse carbine is supposed to be the automatic and the rifle is the semi auto long range.

>>47041785
Most Ork relics are actually pretty good, the problem is you're only allowed to have one Ork relic in your entire army.

>>47041825
Don't they have one that's a 50 point plasma cannon or something dumb?

>>47041807
being gutted of inquisition and assassins will do that, though i don't remember if 5th grey knights was balanced or not.

>>47041815
>But I'll go find the proofs
Just remember that the only existing Tau fluff at the time of release was their very first Codex. Which I'm looking at right now.

And unless I missed something, there's no distinction on fire-modes in the book. Carbines are just short-barrel rifles that mount a grenade launcher.

>>47041825
you mean one ork relic per model?

>>47041785
Orks have decent relics. BA relics are objectively worse than CSM relics, but only because The Black Mace is a top tier in the game relic.

>>47041836
Not in the normal codex, I dont know about waagh gazzy because I didn't buy that watered down shit.

>>47041908
He does.

>>47041915
Ork relics are all decent/good

All Ghazz relics are shit except for a 20pts banner that gives you fearless

The rest are total garbage, one being a power klaw for 50pts

>>47038325
My dudes are the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 9th companies of the Raptors. As of recently I have decided that Ancient Valentine(My Deredeo) is now officially the Captain of the 2nd Company. But given that he's just slightly over 6000 years old, he's pretty senile. So Valentine delegates command to a small retinue of veterans who assist him in daily operations. So basically he now gets to be followed around by a Command Squad.

I'm planning on making a whole personal honour guard for Ancient Valentine that will consist of 3 RG Contemptors. So probably one with Multi-melta Chainfist, one mortis with quad-lascannons, and one with a Kheres and plasma blaster.

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>>47041640
>accidentally

Yeah those weaker stats, more expensive Terminators, and trash formations were an 'accident'. Definitely not a hamfisted shove toward starting a new army or buying an allied force.

The supplements making Space Marines stronger were by accident to. And they accidentally gave CSM two terrible and weak reprints, while simultaneously buffing Space Marines.

It's all one big accident! Trust in Games Workshop, they dont engage in shady sales tactics.

>>47041858
5e was interesting. It was a 5e codex written with 6e in mind. Which made it ELDAR tier until 6e came out. (I6 AP2 on all models, unstoppable vehicles, Paladin wound allocation bullshit.

Internal balance was much better. Then 7e codex came out and fucked everything up.
- Made Psycans Salvo killing any PA marines
- TDAs got 7 pts cheaper, while Strike, Interceptors, and Purgation got 1-2 pts more expensive (due to mandatory Vet Srgt upgrade).
- Paladins remained the same price (making a 15 pt diff between TDAs and Palas become a 22pt diff.)
- NDKs got cheaper because REASONS.
- Dreadnoughts became 20pts more expensive for a situational 6++

Bonus points was that 7e made the melee weapon options slightly more balanced...

>>47040348
Hype engines are powering up.

>>47041981
It's probably more they had no decent codex authors during that time period.

>>47042021
Less of no decent authors and more the authors are pretty unprofessional, and if it's not an army they like they'll half ass because reasons.

>>47041477
Eldar, and Marine formations are both legal and qualify as 'the right rules'.

Suggesting anon play in a Games Workshop store means you should kill yourself because you're a fucking retard.

>>47040348
So any idea what this is? new LS character or an actual game?

>>47042065
He said his store bans unbound.

You should kill yourself for reading compression you fucking nigger.

>>47041446
GW shops probably wont let you use FW models either. The one in Scottsfale, AZ doesnt allow Forgeworld in the store unless you have permission in advance.

>>47041705
Orks have some AA which isn't FW. So that's one thing.

>>47041771
Did. Stopped playing in my local group. They prob moved on. I'll find another one eventually.

>>47041785
Ork Relics are decent iirc. BA relics are just terrible.

20 Points for AP2 sword.

Let's compare that to...

>The Glaive of Vengence
>30 points
>+3S/+1S
>AP2/AP3
>Master Crafted

That might be AP3 after charge, but the extra strength, the re-roll...

Or how bout

>Betrayers Bane
>25 points
>24", S4, AP5, Rapid-Fire, Master Crafted
>12", S8, AP1, Assault 1, Master Crafted, Melta

That's ridiculously good. Especially when the range weapon for BA is

>Fury of Baal
>25 points
>12", S7, AP2, Pistol, Master-Crafted

It's a Plasma Pistol. With Master Crafted. A Salamander Captain can make his 15 point Plasma Pistol the same. For free.

I would say the best relic the BA have is either the AP2 sword, or Gallan's Staff

>10 points
>+2S
>AP4
>Melee, Concussive, Force, Rage-Fuelled
>Can re-roll any dice rolls of 1 when making a Psychic Test, but will immediately suffer a Wound, with no saves of any kind allowed, for each re-rolled dice that is also a 1

I mean, at best, I can see you making an expensive Captain. The Angels Wing, The Crown Angelic and Valour's Edge. Would be a fun Captain, but a single Demolisher Cannon or dozens of other attacks will end him.

Gorgons Chains, for 45 points, are insane.

Or how about Shield of Baal Relics.

1. A power sword which can only be used by a Terminator Sgt, which does Instant Death on a 6 against MCs. It's 5 points. But you'd be dead before you used it.

2. A psychic hood which nulls Shadow in the Warp. 15pts iirc.

Probably other crap as well. While Necrons got...

1. +1S to all melee and range attacks the model makes, plus re-roll to hit rolls of 1, I think. For 25 pts. This makes Gauntlet of Fire a S5 weapon. With a Warsycthe, you're +3S.

2. +1S +1T to C'tan Shard. 20 points. Combined with the 4+ FnP formation, makes it tough.

I'm salty and bitter

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>>47041785
>axe of blind fury
>relic of the god of close combat
>lowers your WS

>>47041981
BAs had the misfortune of missing out on 7.5. Making standard marines stronger was blatant, along with continuing to hate on CSM.

You just want to rightfully complain. Just take a step back every now and then.

>>47042092
Gorgons chains made a Iron Hands techmarine make a kitted out Necron Overlord look like a soft wheeny.

>>47041912
Is it, though? My understand has always been that the black mace is really garbage on anything not a Daemon Prince, since it's got AP irrelevant naturally. Axe of Blind Fury and Burning Brand are both /ok/, but the Dimensional Key, Murder Sword and Scroll of Magnus are all always a waste of points. Not that they're inefficient at what they do, but they're either 100% worthless (Key, Scrolls), or a double-priced vanilla power sword.

How are BA relics?

>>47042126
A model armed with the black mace still gets a bucket load of Fleshbane attacks, and it only takes one wound for the death aura to earn major points.

Axe of Blind Fury giving Rage when the model that buys it always has Rage will never not be hilarious.

>>47042092
Meanwhile with the Raven Guard Relics
> Swiftstrike and Murder
The best Daemon Weapon in the entire game, for 5 points more than a pair of lightning claws. 12 Attacks on the charge is insane, enuff said
> Nihilus
S6 Split-Fire Armourbane Sniper, for 15 points. For the cost of a missile launcher, you get a better missile launcher, that can split-fire from its squad.
> Armour of Shadows
For 5 points more than Artificer Armour, you can get Artificer Armour.. WITH SHROUDED. Auto-take for Librarians so your devastator squads get a permanent 2++.

>>47042126
BA relics are garbage.

The Black Mace on a DP is pretty scary. Ive even put it on a Bike Lord before and had it delete hordes.

>>47039226
I never got all the way through Ravenor. Maybe it was because I'd just finished Eisenhorn but I still need to go back to it eventually (I guess).

>>47038325
A mechanicus sect founded by the survivors of a Magos Juris's investigatory fleet.

In early M41 once Inquisitor Horst began to suspect what was coming, he took steps to raise the alarm even as he himself raced to uncover Abbadon's schemes. One of those he contacted was an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor by the name of Orthais who immediately commandeered a small guard force, set his own priests among them to harden their faith, and launched about a project to circumnavigate the eye. While others raced after raids and sought to divine the shape of the coming storm, Orthais set his thoughts to a more practical matter. He would make a heavy handed sweep through the threatened area of space, searching for more mundane instances heresy. A great purge to deny the enemy fertile ground upon wich to incite rebellion.

About a third of the way through the hunt he found himself at Agripinaa and was met with a great deal of eagerness. The tech priests there had seen signs of a growing threat themselves, and had begun making a similar internal crackdown. They insisted on sending their own forces to aid in the project, learned investigators from the collegiate extremis who had the knowledge and access nessecary to probe forgeworlds as throughly as the inquisition might probe imperial planets. Orthais initially refused, suspecting that the help woukd not be worth potentially limiting his own authority, but eventually was persuaded to accept when the aid was limited in scope to small detachment of ships under the command of Magos Juris Alevra.

The combined fleets proved to be an effective force, uncovering and destroying cults and bands of dissidents in a wide swath around theveye, but tensions within the group were high. Orthais's guardsmen had been indoctrinated into fanaticism and Alevra's skitarii had been hand picked for that quality from the beginning, and their unshared religions threatened to erupt into violence at any moment.

.

>>47042218
The tension was finally resolved when an imperial priest trod upon an enginseer's foot whilst a lander was being unloaded.
A shouting match erupted between the two, as each berated the others faith. Indeed, they showed such rhetorical skill that the lay people who rushed towards the ruckus gathered around to listen and cheer for their side rather than fall to riot. This set the tone for the rest of the expidition, which was to be polka dotted with fiery public debates, including a truly legendary 11 hour long battle of words between the Juris and Inquisitor themselves, but no bloodshed.

Eventually, the combined force was swept up into the storm of the Gothic war, distinguishing itself despite very nearly being destroyed. At the wars end Alevra returned to her homeworld with less than half of those she set out with and those she did bring back were changed. Bits and pieces of the imperial faith had crept into their practices, legacies of the debates which had averted such strife. Only their heroic service in the war, Alevra's position in the collegiate extremis, and the fact that the source of these near misbeliefs was the imperial faith spared them a purge.

Since then, long submersion within mechanicus society has worn away much of the "Aleveans" heterodoxy, but they retain a few strangeness. Of particular note, they hold the human form sacred. The flesh *is* weak, but augmentation should serve to elevate the body, bringing it into sacred union with the machine, not merely wiping it away. Wiping away the weakness without wiping the flesh is held to be the highest path and should be done whenever possible.

Moreover, the flesh that you do keep should be well cared for, don't just let it fill with cancer or what have you, and presented in a pleasing way, stay clean and non-stinky, etc.

So before I go magnetizing my renegade knight, is there any good reason I would ever want two thermal cannons? If not then I'm not going to bother magnetizing both battle cannon housings.

>>47042255

"presented in a pleasing way" is kind of hard for them, since they don't really have anyone in their society to judge that except other mechanicus factions who don't care or each other. Mostly they just operate off of handed down knowledge of what's nice about a body from their founding generation, who learned it all from the fleet's guardsmen. This lends a certain... crudeness to their sense of beauty. Fanatics or not, their teachers were still guardsmen after all.

have to justify those Wargames Exclusive minis somehow

>>47042173
>>47042191
Sure, Black Mace Princes will rape shit, but they're also 300-350 points and aren't that hard to kill with focused firepower. Maybe that's just my experience though; I've seen Black Knight squads kill them in a single round of shooting.

I feel like drowing you gys in numbers and my own nerdity from some old number crunching I did because I was bored and wanted to try and get a handle of the Imperium and how Sisters fit into it. So here's me quoting my summary I'd emailed to someone about a year ago:

>About a year ago a friend of mine and myself sat down with the idea of trying to figure out about how "big" the Imperium was roughly population wise (and about how many Sisters of Battle would fit the setting). So we dug through all the information on population levels from old rulebooks and what we could find and here's what we worked out while trying to keep the numbers on the low end as possible:

>To keep the numbers reasonably low we worked off the following rules:

>1% of the entire Imperium meets the very basic criteria to be considered for becoming a Sororitas.
>1% of those complete their "basic" training successfully
>1% of those are on active status at any time (the other 99% have been deactivated for any number of reasons). This last one was to really just push the number a lot lower based on the "stuff happens" quotient.
>50% of the final total is Militant Orders, the rest is divided into the various Non-Militant Orders (which makes each of those smaller than the combined Militant Orders).

>So running some basic numbers we figured that from the Hive Worlds (all 32,380 of them) had a rough average of 50,000,000,000 (we went with 50 Billion a Hive, which is about the middle of the range (10-100,000,000,000), and 10 Hive a planet, which is a bit lower than half as the range is 5-20) 16,190,000,000,000,000 people on the hives.

<cont>

>>47042186
This, is exactly my point. I ran out of space to whine Want some others?

>BA are forced to take Captains. SW get Chapter Master bases for 'custom builds'. Vanilla do to. Only DA and GK suffer the fate of BA, but only GK suffer near BA level
>2A base Dreads, everybody bar SW and GK are 4A
>Lib Dreads have Force Glaive + Dread Fist. Dread Fist has Specialist Weapon. Bye bye to that +1A.
>Space Wolves Axe + Shield Dread, has 3++ on his front and both shield + axe are weapons. So enjoy that +1A :^)
>BA don't have Storm Talons or any unique flyers. Only GK are in the same boat.
>No Grav Devs
>No Cents (Grav or otherwise)
>They lost Scout on their vehicles
>Lemartes is an Elite choice, with 2W. He should become a free choice when bought
>Sanguinary Guard are Honour Guard, they have 'Angelsteel' weapons. They're AP3 MC or AP2 MC Unwieldy. The best bit? Two Handed. So bye bye to +1A if you fork out vast amounts for a pistol instead of a pistol range improved bolter. Did I mention they're 22PPM naked for T4 2+? Oh... Demolisher Cannon says bye. They also take up a Elite slot
>DC are the only viable unit
>Formations which aren't very useful at all compared to vanilla. Best ones have tax galore or are for high point battles. Or require Shield of Baal (and then people go 'no you cant use it cant we're not doing a SoB campaign')
>Brother Corb is 120 points for nothing special
>Sanguinary Priests take up a HQ slot
>Tycho has no CCW, despite having Rampage. Takes up two slots in book. His gun is one use only. 130/145 points
>Meph has lost lots of stats, can now be one hitted by a demolisher cannon like everybody else. Has Fleet, but can't use it as he has no ++ save. ML3, but has lost a roll to S10 power. So forced to roll Quickening + something else. Which then means S10, Quickening, Force. Nothing else. Has to be put in TH/SS to protect.
>Astorath only good if you take lots of DC
>Dante is expensive
>Furiso Dread can only have 1 Frag Can, which isnt great

Etc

>>47042400
<cont from previous post>

>To keep the math easy we went with an average of 5 Billion people on average on every other planet in the Imperium (working from 1,000,000 that means 967,620 worlds) which is lower than our current population on Earth. That gave us another 4,838,100,000,000,000 more people.

>This gave us a total of 21,028,100,000,000,000 people in the Imperium on a lowball math run (that is 21 Quadrillion people for the record).

>Of these 210,281,000,000,000 meet the very basic criteria (1% of the population).
>Of those 2,102,810,000,000 complete the basic training (1% of those who meet the basic criteria).
>Of those 21,028,100,000 are on any kind of active duty (1% of those who complete the training).
>Of those 10,514,050,000 are Battle Sisters (50% of those who are active duty).

>With 1 Million Worlds in the Imperium this means the Sisters could in theory put as many as 10,514 Sisters on every world on average (the real spread is likely much more varied depending on combat operations, duties on Shrine Worlds, escorting pilgrimages, ect. This is just to give a rough idea of how many there could be.)

>Now understandably 10.5 Billion sounds like a lot, but considering the scale of the Imperium it turns out to only be .00005% of the entire Imperium (for a comparative basis it'd be like 300 Sisters in the United States, or 6 Sisters to every state in the US), so still plenty "elite" for the setting.

>Likewise the same numbers could be applied to Tempestus Scions and Commissars (as they go through similar screening processes).

>And just for fun, if the Imperium has properly tithed their Guardsmen and there were no massed casualties there would be 210,281,000,000,000 standing Guardsmen.

>>47040274
Thing about the nids is that there are a ton of fun options for competitive builds outside of flyrants with devourers. This is the reason you never see nid lists finish high at larger tourneys because obsec spam will always beat the flying circus. The tyranid brain-trust has given up on the dex and never tries anything new.

200 termegants is 800 points. 200 fearless gants will seriously fuck up most conventional eldar or marine lists. How funny would it be to watch an imperial knight list stomp out 20 gants/turn and never make a dent?

>>47042411
>>Furiso Dread can only have 1 Frag Can, which isnt great
That alone proves you don't know what you're talking about, frag cannons are crazy powerful.
You just wanna be OP like the ultramarines.
Deep down, you wanna be an ultramarine, we all know.

>>47042423
How do you stop your synapse (that must be around them) dying and those 800 points turning into useless waste?

>>47042400
>>47042411
Yeah but BA look cool, so they obviously don't need good rules to sell.

-gw logic

>>47042453
Not that Anon, but it'd really depend on who is writing the UM at the time. Sometimes they're a lot cooler than others, and I don't mean when they somehow win when they should be wiped out to a man.

Though that still has to be the number of times the BA seem to be nearly wiped out (last I was counting was two or three times. At least once with a Space Hulk and then again in their novel triology).

>>47042453
>makes one mistake in a long list of accurate info

'That alone proves you dont know what you're talking about, frag cannon is crazy op hurrrdurrr Ultramarines'

Retard detected.

>>47042126
Speak for yourself friend I do dark work with the key.

>>47042476
Buncha ways?

Hiding 6x 50pt zoanthrope units with dominion behind buildings.

a few flyrants with egrubs casting dominion and waxing vehicles.

hiding malanthropes around the table.

> Nice S8AP2 shooting, anon. Be a shame if you had nothing to shoot but 4pt gaunts...

>>47041200
I think between curse of the wulfen, champions of Fenris and the codex there is a detailed enough breakdown for SW to count them out
I'll break down the numbers when I get home if anyone is still interested

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>>47041102
>>47041460
>Don't Dark Angels also have lots of Land Raiders and Terminator Armour?
Shh, don't tell anyone or we'll both get in trouble!

We either have 100 or 200 terminators confirmed without delving into command squads, the knights (although with the way the structure is I think around 30-50 is a right number) and the numbers being fudged in general.

>>47042646
Terminator squads are only 5 men strong. Smurfs have vet squads 1 to 5, then terminator squads 1 through 10.

You can technically have 10 man squads on the tabletop now, but lore-wise that's why deathwing's numbers go to 20.

>>47042594
Literally how? You're going to have to be lucky to even get into assault before turn 2, meaning it won't be activated until turn 3 at the earliest, when two thirds of your shit is already on the board.

>>47042594
how nigger

unless your opponent is a complete retard and also actively trying to help you win, there's no way you're getting the scatter mitigation before turn 2, and the terrain effect is nowhere near worth it by itself

>>47042453
I said it isn't great, not that it isn't good. It's good, but if you go to somebody

>Hey, what would you rather have, Dev Gravs or Frag Cannons?

Anybody who says Frag Cannons are playing GEQ constantly in their meta.

I don't even want to be OP. I just want to have viable VARIATION. To do well I have to run x3 units of DC with Astaroth, make sure I got a Quad ADL to try and protect me from flyers (made even worse by Stormraven being unable to dogfight it seems, but the new vehicle might be BA available, still no unique ones thou). Everybody who moans about their dex doesn't want to be OP, they just want to be viable. To be able to use everything they have without knowing it's gimped them. It's the one interesting aspect of AoS I like. The units are more balanced as they don't have a point cost. But I don't want to have that in 40k. I want my Sanguinary Guard to be able to do stuff.

>>47042491
They have cool fluff, they have an interesting 'flaw' (every chapter does in a way) and they look cool and while I don't like their tactic/pref tactic as much as IF, I like BA better

>>47042411
Oh yeah, let's not forget

>No Thunderfire Cannons
>No dedicated mobile AA (Fortifications and FW units aren't always an option)
>No Master of Forge
>Lost the Reclussiarch
>None of the amazing formations which make sense for BA to have
>Sanguinour is 200 points, with T4, 2+. Dies to bolter fire, dies to pretty much anything with high number of attacks. Eternal Warrior won't protect you from 30 Conscripts firing 30 S3 Rending shots at you

>>47042646
So DA have lots of Terminator Armour, BA have lots of Land Raiders, what do SW have?

>>47042823
Lots of shitposters.

>>47042646
Also the "successor chapters" who refer to their all terminator first companies as deathwing and for all intents and purposes are members of the first legion.

>>47042823
They used to have Russes.
Now they have furies.

>>47042823
wolves?

>>47042731
>>47042788
Nothing too complex. I usually play fairly high point games that allow me to provide my opponents with too many targets to just focus all of their fire on my infiltrated, DP of Nurgle. I only have a few squads of terminators so it's not like my entire strategy depends on it but being able to get 15 shredding flamer templates (or plasma/melta) exactly where I want them almost always makes up the points. Hell, even if only one of the squads takes advantage of the key it's worth the 25 points. If I get all 3 squads to deep strike turn two then the points are wasted but the key helps to mitigate bad reserve rolls by making later reserves more precise. Worst case scenario it syphons a large amount of my opponents shooting for a turn or two, assuming I can keep him out of LOS from the bulk of it. A flying DP with black mace cannot be ignored. Not claiming it's something I'd take to a tournament. I just play with about a half dozen friends. But it has done enough work in it's time that I usually include it.

>>47042794
It won't take much to fix the BA book. After a few reworks, you'll be on par with the SM codex and probably won't even need grav.
Add into that your own formations and decurion, BA will be fine. For now chill out, unless you also played DE for the 10 years that they had no update.

>Hey, what would you rather have, Dev Gravs or Frag Cannons?
Honestly? I'd rather haev frag cannons. Grav are nothing short of complete bullshit and don't deserve a place in the game in their current form. I can't wait for the 8th edition nerf they'll get.
Frag cannons put out a ton of damage at high strength, on a dread that could use some help thinning it's enemies, its wonderful. Incinerators don't compare.

>>47042540
>Useless post from a useless person
There's only one retard here, anon

>>47042823
Endless barking

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>>47042930
>space marine teleport homer is 5 points
>dimensional key is a 25 point relic that is strictly worse than a teleport homer and is pretty much impossible to actually use

so this . . . is the power of chaos

>>47042989
Don't forget the chaos icons from the previous codex were better teleport homers. Then they said "Nah, fuck that."
My obliterators have been sad ever since.

>>47042218
>>47042255
>>47042291

It's like I got prince of bel-air'd. Good show, I guess.

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Well played Relic/SEGA. Well played.

>>47042989
No arguments here friend. The only advantage of the key being that there is no scatter anywhere, but it's flaws greatly outweigh that. In my opinion the key should just start the game with it's abilities in effect. I'd accept a point increase if necessary. I just love my death guard terminators.

>>47042989
this is why having well trained and respected technical staff instead of malnourished and constantly terrified slaves is a good thing

>enter into compacts with demons
>be surprised when they fuck you over for absolutely no reason

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>>47043044
those quotes were always my favorite parts of the older games

>>47042411
>>BA are forced to take Captains. SW get Chapter Master bases for 'custom builds'. Vanilla do to. Only DA and GK suffer the fate of BA, but only GK suffer near BA level
I'm really tired of this shit. SW doesn't have chapter masters. They have a captain that has +1 attack for 15 points extra. No orbital bombardment, not even on their actual chapter master, despite being described as one of the chapters with the strongest fleet
>>2A base Dreads, everybody bar SW and GK are 4A
Because they are a 7.0 codex
>>Sanguinary Guard are Honour Guard, they have 'Angelsteel' weapons. They're AP3 MC or AP2 MC Unwieldy. The best bit? Two Handed. So bye bye to +1A if you fork out vast amounts for a pistol instead of a pistol range improved bolter. Did I mention they're 22PPM naked for T4 2+? Oh... Demolisher Cannon says bye. They also take up a Elite slot
The actual Honor Guard is 25 points per model without the jump pack and without access to AP2 weapons outside of a thunder hammer for the champion.
>>Formations which aren't very useful at all compared to vanilla. Best ones have tax galore or are for high point battles. Or require Shield of Baal (and then people go 'no you cant use it cant we're not doing a SoB campaign')
Because they are a 7.0 codex. None of them has good formations, except the SW that received the Warzone: Fenris decurion that isn't really good either, anyway, outside of the Blackmane formation
>>Dante is expensive
Cry me a river. Have you seen the other 7.0 Lords of War?
>>No Grav Devs
>>No Cents (Grav or otherwise)
>>47042794
>>No Thunderfire Cannons
>>No Master of Forge
Just play the vanilla codex if what you want is their units.
What's the purpose of having a different codex from the vanilla if then you start bitching about not having their units?

>>47043091
>enter into compacts with demons
>be surprised when they fuck you over for absolutely no reason


Are you talking about the fluff or actual GW practices now?

>>47042823
Lots of terminators just not as much as DA, lots of Land Raiders just not as much as BA, but more in one company then other chapters have in total, lots of wolves, lots of marines more then one hundred per company, with the Champion of Fenris one having more than 200, for 12 companies and a chaos resistant geneseed

>>47043123
> Actual Honour Guard are 25 ppm without access to AP2 weapons
No, this is wrong.

Actual SM Honour Guard, 25ppm nets you the following:
Bolter, Bolt Pistol, "Power Weapon"(Which means you can take an Axe for Ap2), and Artificer Armour.

Sanguinary Guard are completely identical, except that their Power Weapons are Mastercrafted, and they have a JUMP PACK. FOR THE SAME COST. Your bitching is fruitless.

>>47043178
are they really even different things

>>47043189
I admit I was wrong about that point. I was just following what >>47042411 wrote.
But as >>47042540 wrote, do you want to avoid the other criticism I wrote?

>>47043123
As I said, friend, the other units which make BA different are pointless. You take x3 DC or don't bother with Elite choices. There are like 11 elite choices in the dex and only one is worth doing. The Lib Dread MIGHT be worth doing now the new powers are out, but still crippled by 2A and no +1A due to two melee weapons.

As for your Honour Guard bit. Good point... Except Honour Guard can have much more variation of weaponry AND they can get an Apothecary.

Dante being expensive is expected, but when it's either Dante, Astorath or a Captain/SP, it's pretty lame. Lysander would smash those guys to the ground 1v1. The builds you can make with the Captain? Rubbish. With Space Wolves? Possible to make a 8 Attack S7 AP2 dude (granted unwieldy) which goes up to 11A when outnumbered (not hard).

Why don't BA have Grav Devs? They have Grav guns for some of their units. Why not Devs?

As for no Cents, OK, I can accept that. But what is the alternative?

Why no Master of Forge? Why are vanilla chapters able to pull him out to sit in Land Raiders, but none of the separate ones allowed?

Why can't BA have TFC? If not, is there anything in return?

As for Dreads not be 4A. It really isn't that hard to get a FAQ out there. GW did an update with Warzone Fenris and didn't fix them then. The assumption has to be not that the codex is 'old' but because GW want that way.

As for your final point, most BA players do. They run their BA as Raven Guard CT.

Can Dark Angels get Stormtalons now?

>>47043292
That's a secret

>>47043189
>>47043276
Just a tiny thing, SG are not identical. Their Power Weapons are MC, but Two-Handed. Meaning you don't get +1A due to having a pistol or another melee weapon. They also don't have Feel no Pain and cannot get access to it without spending 60 points for a SP (and then, what, 15 points for a Jet Pack so they can all move at same speed?). The range weapons they can take are not the same. The weapons Sanguinary Guard have, are 12". Honour Guard can take longer range things if they want.

>>47041504
>And until Space Marine it was the only game to have a bolter that wasn't just a space M-16.
Space Marines bolters were woefully underwelming, what are you talking about?

>>47043284
>Why no Master of Forge? Why are vanilla chapters able...

There is no Master of the Forge in 7e Codex: Space Marines.

New player and I had a question I was hoping someone could answer. I'm playing at 500 points with some buddies and I want to use a formation. Do I have to have the additional force org mandatory 1 hq 2 troop as well?

TL;DR: does this list work at 500 points

Tyranid Prime with some upgrades and 5 squads of genestealers giving the manufactorum genestealer formation.