OSR General - Module Share Edition

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>>46894258

the Trove seems to cap on the DCC modules after 80 or so. Does anyone have any of the newer pdfs?

What're people's opinions on the C-series of modules (Tamoachan, Inverness, Castanimir, To Find a King, Llywelyn's Bane, and the RPGA Handbook)?

Here's a question;

I know some games basically require or recommend it (DCC), but how about giving players multiple characters to control over the course of an adventure or dungeon crawl?

Since I think most RP groups bigger then 3-4 people are really hard to find time for (unless in real life), I'm planning on getting an online group of 3-4 people that have 2 characters each. It shouldn't be too hard to manage that, right?

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>>46894600
just personally, i find controlling 2 different characters way less interesting and immersive. DCC makes it to where that's just how you begin, 0-level. some die, then you choose one to focus on.

>>46894743

So then how do you deal with small player size? Do you just have a bunch of hirelings that the players can become instead if they end up dying?

>>46894765
That, and maybe some rescaling of # appearing and/or hit points

>>46894765
I know that Moldvay advises new players to use extra characters before giving them Hirelings.
Personally, if you find the immersiveness factor to be very important and shy away from hirelings at level 1, you might want to take a look at a game like Scarlet Heroes where the PCs are more powerfull and can take a bit more of a beating. That way, you can use the by the book No. Appearing and / or the numbers in the modules you use without (too much) fear of every encounter being overpowered.

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Good ideas for dungeons please?

Anything; a gimmick, a boss, a specific treasure, a specific trap or monster, just give me something to start with here.

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>>46896639
Clothing store dungeon.

I'm actually planning on doing this.

>>46894600
I give my players a single PC and then they can take henchmen with them, who are NPCs but basically under their control.Their main purpose is to cover gaps in the party, and be replacement PCs if a character dies.

>>46897477
You should moderate the actions of their second PC; people often forget they're still individual characters, they should have their own whims, they shouldn't live solely to benefit their other character.

What is your tavern music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNLoti4sjlI

>>46899120
Oh, absolutely. This is why we have loyalty checks and morale for NPCs - a failed loyalty/morale check moves control of the henchman from the player to the GM.

>>46899280
The Hurdy-gurdy was pretty much the official tavern instrument for a long period in European history, I tend towards that and the lute (very original I know).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypuaJLHK_LQ This is obviously electric and hence cleaner, but the tune and style is actually not that different from more traditional pieces.

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>>46899280
http://tabletopaudio.com/
"the slaughtered ox"

or

http://tabletopaudio.com/tavern_sp.html

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>>46896639
A maze of mirrors, with Medusa's patrolling it.

>>46896639
It might sound weird, but ask kids and children for ideas. Some of the best ideas I've heard came straight from the mouth of a 7 year old.

>>46896639
The dungeon level is a tesseract. 24 "faces", each edge connecting three faces. Make it out of dungeon geomorphs if you don't feel like mapping. Make sure to keep notes so that you don't get completely confused.

BMUP

>>46894474
Check seven-chan request thread. I think I saw some modules there.

>>46894600
> I know some games basically require or recommend it (DCC), but how about giving players multiple characters to control over the course of an adventure or dungeon crawl?
I have no problem with it.

In fact, I'd prefer players to have several (main character+his henchment, rather than 2+ full-fledged PCs) - this way I can kill PCs without remorse.

>>46896639
Dungeon levels endlessly repeat themselves. Except each levels is slightly different than the levels before.

First 2-3 stairs are practically identical, but then the discrepancy crawls in. The deeper you go, the crazier shit gets.

Down there is some sort of half-broken artifact that copies levels and makes dungeon deeper: it was an attempt to "dig" the way to some Chaos planes.

Well, wolfpacks is up on drivethroughrpg.
I'm feeling pretty satisfied with myself.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/181454/Wolfpacks-and-Winter-Snow

>>46901662
Wouldn't they all have to walk around with their eyes closed?

I suspect what you'd wind up with is a maze of mirrors with a few medusa statues standing around.

>>46901828
I'm working on a tesseract dungeon too, but with rooms as each of the 8 cubes, with gravity staying consistent to the observer.

>>46901662
How about a maze filled with various petrifying beasties, with the "twist" being that the walls are statues?

Might be a bit overly lethal, though. It'd be like having a dungeon level filled entirely with poisonous monsters - thematically consistent and relatively logical, but perhaps not so fun to play through.

Although I suppose that a labyrinth of statues would probably mostly be explored by blindfolded parties... in which case they get fucked by the touch-petrification monsters, which brings it back to square one and the question of "why the hell would you make a save-or-die dungeon?"

>>46904162
Congratulations!

>>46894258
Are there any games that use ability scores for anything other than determining modifiers?

>>46905659
A lot of OSR use ability scores as a basis for checks (in lieu of being skill specific).

ie) if you need to make a WIS check, roll a d20 under your score to succeed.

>>46905862
I personally do this for CHA in LotFP when my players want to bribe/persuade etc and I think the odds should be stacked against them.

>>46905659
Many early D&D editions use them as class/race requirements and/or for determining XP bonuses.

>>46905938
>odds should be stacked against them
But if you use that, the odds are on their side.
Also what about the NPC reaction table?

>>46905659
I've seen a few where damage to (or permanent loss of) ability scores is a fairly frequent thing.
I've also seen the raw strength score used for encumbrance, and similar.

>>46906007
Not necessarily. Say a player is bribing an NPC. If they roleplay the encounter well, I consider it a success. But if the NPC has reason to be wary or headstrong (a guard or pawn broker), I have them speak, then I roll a CHA check to see if they had the extra push needed.

>>46906346
He means that the average on 3D6 is 10.5, so a character with average Charisma has either a 10 or 11, meaning that the odds are either even or slightly in their favor, not stacked against them.

>>46906403
Right, but what is boils down to is an 'instant win' or a 'gambled win'. If I wanted it to be more difficult, I'd add a Speech skill d6 to the game (add CHA mod in pips) and have them roll on that.

>>46906535
No skill needed. There's a reaction table in the book. You roll 2d6 on it to see how an NPC reacts when their reaction isn't entirely certain. You put bonuses and penalties on it, depending on how they played out the encounter.

That being said, I don't think your method is wrong. I do attribute checks the same way. Just mentioning that b/x variants were meant to use the table, in case the book didn't telegraph it well enough. Which I know it doesn't.

>>46906610
Well look at that! I must have glossed that over assuming it was more combat encounter related. Derp.

>>46904104
Stolen

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What is the singular worst aspect of modern RPGs?

>>46896639
The demihuman destroyer: Crystal dungeon with translucent walls that emit bright light that is blinding for PCs with darkvision. Some sectors of the dungeon have all surfaces coated with a heat-emitting fungal infestation that negates infra-vision. The whole thing is an outrageously ancient wrecked starship.

>>46907718
Games like Pathfinder aren't even roleplaying games because the point of the game is rules mastery not imagination and roleplay. It's like OD&D rewritten by an autistic accountant.

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Yo, I need some table generators to make a gonzo as fuck adventure. Mutations, space/fantasy weapons, potion effects, room decor, NPCs, etc. Anything goes.

I have the Dungeon Alphabet. Its fantastic. Anything else you can share?

>>46907718
The idea that you can only do what's listed on your character sheet.

I know that it's not as much a "modern RPG" thing as it is just a way of playing, but damn.

Although I suppose that I could point fingers towards how 3E tried to make a rule for every situation. That no doubt helped exacerbate the problem.

I love how Torchbearer and Dungeon World actually have to write down that no, you can't just say that you use your Survival skill/roll to Hack & Slash - you need to actually say what your trying to do and then maybe the DM applies a relevant mechanic to resolve it.

Actually, that's another point. The whole endless "I attack the goblin, I hit, I rolled 3 damage" cycle. Learn to roleplay, people.

Another bad aspect of certain "modern" RPGs is the attempt at universality - especially when it's done by systems that very much AREN'T universal. Like the d20 system, for instance. Mechanics bring forth flavor in and of themselves, so you need to make sure to have the right mechanics for the right game.

>>46907942
Also, for chargen, what OSR system can you recommend to create anything from a Cowboy to a Wastelander to a Mad Scientist?

>>46894258
Hey, Trove Guy, if you read this, the Machination of the Space Princess folder apparently has been moved inside Labyrinth Lord. Since it's a LotFP hack, I figure it should be under Lamentations instead.

Holy shit. I just decided to go 'fuck it' and run donjon.net randomly generated dungeons with a bit of tweaking for some more roleplaying opporunities.

I am playing everything straight, "you meet in an inn" and all that. The players are having a blast.

The moral of the story seems to be: if you want to play Dungeons & Dragons, actually give them dungeons and dragons.

>>46908070
I'm pretty sure he included a folder in LL that were my roommates character sheets haha.

Seems like LotFP is all anyone talks about. Is it really that good?

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>>46907942

Here's one I made. Obviously more science-fiction based, but hope it helps.

>>46908428
>Seems like LotFP is all anyone talks about. Is it really that good?
Good question. Never played it personally, however "LotFP is a tabletop role-playing game born out of the mechanics of old school fantasy gaming and the love of underground heavy metal, horror literature and film, and in fact all things strange and macabre", makes me quite sceptical. Personally I have never played a "OSR horror" game that I have been pleased with.

>>46905659
In various editions they determine:
> Eligibility for different classes
> Eligibility for different races.
> Bonus XP through prime requisites
> Modifiers for specific functions
> Individual sub mechanics (ability to survive resurrection, for instance)
> Basic task resolution ("roll your dex score or lower to jump the chasm.")
> Proficiency resolution ("Surgery is a wisdom skill, roll under wisdom -2")
> Narrative effects in modules ("Characters with a Wis of X or higher will see through this." "Dryads will attempt to charm characters with a charisma of X or higher.")

I think that covers most of them. There might be others as well.

>>46908428
>>46908943
LotFP is my primary game.

From a strictly mechanical point, it's a very tight B/x clone that makes some mechanical improvements (moving basically all misc task resolution to an x-in-6 format, better thief class, etc) and then twists things to specifically suit the feel they are going for.

In this case, it's weird horror. This isn't the same thing as Call of Cthulhu or ghost story kind of horror. It isn't the kind of horror game you expect from other parts of the horror genre.

In both book aesthetics and general setting tone, it's way better to compare it to some tongue-and-cheek B movie style horror. One of the editions was called the "grindhouse edition." Much of the art is commissioned by artists Raggi first saw on metal albums he liked. It's a little over the top, and not really meant to be taken seriously. It's also reveling in the fantasy viet nam vibe, with some of the modules being brutal.

It does a reasonable job of conveying this in the rules themselves through slight mechanical tweaks. Only fighters get better at fighting over time (which actually works out way better than you might think), magic users and clerics both have more tailored spell lists. Thieves are replaced by specialists who fulfill a wide variety of roles, rather than being confined to a specific niche. He also has rules for early modern weapons and armor in the appendices, and most of the modules for the system take place in an early modern historical setting with lovecraftian undertones.

If you like the vibe, it's a great system. If you don't, it's still worth looking at just to check the tweaks. The encumbrance system is the only one I've ever seen players faithfully track, and I've taken the x-in-6 resolution system and imported it in basically any other OSR game I play.

>>46907718
RPG's that have "builds", I just despise it.

>>46909363
This upsets me too.

I love the game and strategy aspects of RPGs, but I can't stand it when people turn newer or more complicated games into Magic: The Gathering. "Combine this race with that class and those feats and you can..."

It's not a tournament game. Hacking and breaking things can be fun, but actually playing the game like this is missing the point. Yes, I'm calling badwrongfun on this one.

>>46909484
Yes! I love races as classes for this exact reason, its always "Hmm I want to play this <class>, now which is the best race to pick for its abilities?". Also now I feel races don't need to be balanced since its a class unto it self.

New to OSR. Say a trap goes off. Darts shooting, trap door opening etc. Is rolling a DEX check (d20 under) the way to see if characters fall victim?

>>46908026
>>46909363
>>46907885
>The idea that you can only do what's listed on your character sheet.

I swear you faggots haven't even put into any thought why they're designed like this.

It's called abstraction, the amount of time it takes to becoming a wizard is ridiculous and that's if your talented, why the fuck would you take to learn how to become a master lockpick or archer as well?

>>46910175
Depends on the trap and circumstances. (Boring answer, I know.)

The way I'd do it, if a trap is activated, the effect happens period. You're supposed to find traps before you put your dumb foot on them.

If a trap has an action that's so slow that whoever triggered it has a decent chance of getting out of it unscathed anyway, then whoever designed it wasn't a very good trapbuilder.

An exception is traps which manifest spells or spell-like effects, like a stone dragon head carved in a wall which actually breathes fire in the corridor when the party trips in a wire or something.

Then, standard saving throws apply.

Basically what I want to say is "Traps usually shouldn't have saves unless it makes sense. If they do have saves, use the actual saves, not stat rolls. They're called "saving throws" for a reason."

Use "vs. Death & Poison" for poison needles and spikes, "vs. Breath" for explosions, blasts of compressed air, maybe portions of dungeons rigged to collapse and such, and "vs. Wand" for spell effects from magical traps. Trapdoors should have no save (not much you can do to fight gravity), but they're usually the easiest to spot and avoid.

>>46910175
Depends on the specifics. Check out how some of the early modules are set up.

Generally speaking, a trap will often only have a specific chance to go off anyway "on a roll of 1 or 2 on a d6." When they do go off, they often call for a specific save to avoid the trap, representing the character's reflexes. Which save depends on the specifics of the trap and edition.

>>46909363
This. So much this. I want the player choice to be about stuff they do in the game itself, not to be primarily about how they built the character before the game began.

>>46911259
>I want the player choice to be about stuff they do in the game itself

In other words you want to play a CRPG not a PnP RPG. RuneQuest tried to pull off a system like this and everybody quickly learnt it plays HORRIBLY.

>>46911113
Whats with the hate dude? Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I don't understand it. Chill out and relax, we're just having discussion.

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>>46911396
Because this question gets asked every thread and gets the exact same replies, then nobody takes the opportunity to check out systems that don't do this.

>>46911461
It doesn't get asked every thread, and so what? People can't like what they like? Stop such being a baby about it.

>>46911347
gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

>>46911678
Let me guess, you also spam about how great WoP is right?

>>46911832
I don't even know what WoP is, but I'm getting the feeling you're just being an ass for the sake of it.

So has anyone in the history of rpgs ever managed to figure out how to make wilderness segments as interesting as dungeons?

Serious question. I'm not normally that involved in OSR stuff, but I've been running a bit of a West Marches-style game for a while now and I'm really enjoying it. Coming up with unique dungeons, designing challenging encounters, and watching the players try to make it through them alive—that's all great.

But the wilderness segments. The getting-to-the-dungeon segments and the getting-back-to-town segments. I just feel like it's really hard to make it feel worthwhile to play them out and not just gloss over them with a little "You walk for many hours..." etc.

Anyone ever played in a game where travel, survival, and stuff like that actually felt like it mattered? Where it actually felt like it added to the fun of the game? Any advice you folks can share?

Has anyone ever played B5 - Horror on the Hill before? First time going through as a player and I swear we can't get anywhere without 2-3 random encounters where we have no chance but to fight.

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>>46913482
Yo.

>>46913482

Here's one idea on that front:

http://recedingrules.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/wilderness-travel-mini-games-ii.html

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>>46913482
GURPSfag dropping in; there's a supplement for Dungeon Fantasy — GURPS's answer to D&D — focused entirely on wilderness adventures, aptly named DF 16: Wilderness Adventures. While the crunch won't be useful to you at all, the splat ends with a sizable and system-agnostic chapter dedicated to running adventures or even full campaigns in the great outdoors.

um


Why do you people like or prefer old DnD? I picked up the 1e ADnD book and its a fucking mess in terms of layout with a bunch of weird restrictions and rules.

Im not trolling im curious what the appeal is?

>>46915448
Check out Moldvay/Cook Basic. It has the same core system as AD&D, but AD&D adds a bunch of clutter on top of it. I mean, it's still an organic system that developed through play (kind of like the unplanned twisty streets in an old town) and so it can feel like a hodge-podge of different subsystems, but it even given that, it's much simpler than modern D&D. And the minimalism of the rules promotes a different sort of play, without the emphasis on mechanical character building and with a focus on thinking outside the box, role-playing out exactly what you do instead of just relying on skill rolls, and improvisation on the DM's part that allows for a more adaptive and creative sort of play.

>>46915448
most of us prefer BX/BECMI/RC D&D over AD&D in these threads, the latter is indeed a mess as you mentioned

>>46916592
The AD&D rulescyclopedia looks pretty good.

>>46916759
Rules Cyclopedia is actually derived from Basic D&D not Advanced, and yeah it's pretty good

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>>46916759
Rules Cyclopedia is Basic. It's just an expanded Basic compared to B/X. It's essentially the first four letters of BECMI (without the I) consolidated into one rulebook that it's actually possible to reference.

>>46916984
I guess that chart doesn't really say, but Moldvay Basic is also called B/X (since it consists of two sets: Basic and Expert), while Mentzer Basic is BECMI (consisting of Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, and Immortals sets).

>>46916592
AD&D 2e is my favorite thus far.

>>46916984
This chart always bugs me. Holmes to B/X isn't really "rewritten but generally compatible" - hell, that should probably be the arrow between OD&D and Holmes!

I'm not entirely convinced that Holmes->Moldvay is the thing, either - it kind of feels like Moldvay looked back at OD&D to make his own version of the game, meaning that you'd technically have three "branches" ever-so-briefly.

IIRC the New, Easy to Master D&D Game is also based on the Allston's RC rather than Mentzer's BECMI in general?

I'd also argue against having a "major rules changes" arrow between the RC and 3E - I'm not really sure that Wizards looked at Basic at all during the development of that edition, to be honest! It's very much a follow-up to AD&D.


I'm also a little irritated that "Braunstein and other wargames" is a label, since the bit of Braunstein that was a major inspiration was that it was the "first" role-playing game. If anything, the "other wargames" bit should probably be a "inspiration" arrow pointing to Chainmail!
Although Fight in the Skies/Dawn Patrol and Don't Give Up the Ship seem to have been direct inspirations for OD&D as well, so perhaps an arrow is merited after all.


5E would be what, a "Major Rules Changes" arrow from 4E with a "rewritten but generally compatible" arrow to the new Basic Rules which in turn has an explicit "inspiration" arrow from the RC? I guess you could also have another "inspiration" arrow from the Red Box to the new Starter Set, since apparently the 4E Basic Set counts. Probably a black arrow from the Basic Set to the Starter Set as well, I guess, although that feels a bit dirty.

>>46915448
>1e ADnD

Is pretty much the worst of all worlds. Just find a more modern ruleset. It'll have cleaned up math, layout and still retains some of the simplicity.

Are there any D&D/OSR books with a more realistic/plausible economy, or at least prices? For example, ranged weapons (bows, xbows and even primitive guns) not being roughly as expensive as steel swords.

>>46918258
ACKS had some economy, IIRC

> For example, ranged weapons (bows, xbows and even primitive guns) not being roughly as expensive as steel swords.
I'm not sure I understand.

>>46918347
In 3.5, a "longsword" is 15gp while a longbow is 75gp. That makes no sense even from a common-sense perspective.

>>46918455
> common-sense

> The traditional construction of a longbow consists of drying the yew wood for 1 to 2 years, then slowly working the wood into shape, with the entire process taking up to four years

>>46918539
I should've put quotes around longbow, but you're still being a faggot. Not all longbows were english composite longbows made from yew wood.

>>46913482
>>46915414
For actual OSR games, there's the AD&D supplement Wilderness Survival Guide, and a number of modules are a large wilderness area that you can wander about in.

The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are DL1, DL4, and DL14.

Has anyone experimented with combining the Cleric and Magic User into a single class (ie, "Sorcerer").

Base rules are LotFP.

I was thinking there might be schools that teach their spells as religious mysteries, but I've never liked the conceptual divide between divine and arcane magic...

Maybe I'd keep the elf racial class as "warlock" or something.

>>46920768
>(ie, "Sorcerer").
Arcanist?

Aren't you basically describing Dragonlance?

>>46920982
>Aren't you basically describing Dragonlance?
No? Wizards and clerics are different classes in DL.

>>46920997
That's done for mechanical reasons; Lore wise they both receive their powers from the Gods.

>>46920982
I don't think so...

Problems I can imagine are
>MU becomes indispensable/OP
>MU becomes shitty because overburdened trying to balance buff spells and utility/attack spells
OTOH it'd be possible to play a "white mage" or a "black magician", depending on what you study. Maybe I'd divide the spell list into schools or white/black/grey alignments.

I imagine I'd also include a Medicine skill and/or inexpensive alchemical healing, to make it possible for specialists to play healbot.

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Alright, did chargen with my players last night for LotFP. Running Stargazer.

Got a sneaky/tinkery specialist (who is not a thief)
a forest elf (who's name is the sound of nature)
a mule riding wizard in plate armor (AC 20 goddamn)
and a chaotic cleric who worships the fire that burns forests (and has 10 dogs)

gimme some ideas to fuck with these people. i'm not out to 'get them', but I've only DM'd a few times and want some creative fodder to help me with this.

>>46921369
Well first of all, check and make sure the wizard is not more than lightly encumbered. I would have thought that plate armor and a weapon would put him right over, but I can't be fucked to pull out the book.

If you want to be a real cunt, don't tell him he's overly encumbered til he tries to cast a spell.

Anyways, just prep the module and take some notes--the module itself is full of gotchas.

>>46921369
The magic user has plate armor? He can't be carrying around much else then if he wants to cast spells. And aren't clerics forced to be lawful in the LotFP rules?

Anyway, did you already play Stargazer or are you planning on doing it? Because the tower already has a lot of fun stuff that fucks with the players.

>>46920768
> Has anyone experimented with combining the Cleric and Magic User into a single class (ie, "Sorcerer").
I thought about it, but the class would be too generic. I'd rather combine all spells and then split them into disciplines, having 5-6 Magi (of Life, Death, Fire, etc)


By the way, if class has spontaneous casting and knows all his spells (a la beguiler 3e), how many spells should the class have in each spell circle, so as not to be too unwieldy? Not interested in balance at the moment

I.e. at first level know all 1st level spells (6 spells), at 3rd level knows 2nd spell circle spells (12 = 6+6) and so on. But by level 9 there will be 30 spells.

So - how many spells should there be so as not to get overwhelmed?

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>>46921504
Magic User just scrapes by as lightly encumbered. Not many items.

And I've never agreed with Clerics needing to be Lawful. I nixed it.

>>46921568
So, if the cleric spills his own holy water on himself, he'll get burned?

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>>46921610
Pretty much. I haven't told him yet that any 'healing' magic he opts for will just do that roll in fire damage.

>>46921548
>split them into disciplines
Yes, I think that'd be smart. I don't like making the MU even more mechanically complex, but I'd probably just have the school determine your random starting spells, and the random spell you get for free.

And I think the elf fills the role of "fighty magic guy".

I will probably reskin the dwarf as a something like a warforged/magical automata.

>>46921568
Well, I don't think you need to go out of your way to make Stargazer a darwinian filter for the PC's. Just remember to only describe their perceptions, and only at the level they interact with.
instead of "you hear a goblin creeping down the corridor" you say "you hear a faint skittering coming from the darkened corridor".

>>46921639
This is not good GMing son. That implies his character doesn't even know what his own abilities do. It's like telling the fighter that he bought a rubber sword and only noticed it now HAW HAW.

Stop trying to fuck over the players (especially with your own house rules) and set up situations where the players can fuck themselves.

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>>46921679
Well. He hasn't chosen a clerical spell for the first session yet. I gueeeeeeeess I can tell him his healing will just damage people (i'm pretty sure he picked the whole Forest Fire Worshiping thing just to spite the Elf player).

>>46921737
Yeah, I really can't recommend against this whole premise enough.

At best you're taking away a major class ability and replacing it with a mediocre attack option. And while it might seem fair because of the player's choices, the only reason this is even on the table is because you said "lol sure you can play a chaotic cleric".

Character abilities are one of the only things players have control over, so tamper with them carefully, not just for a cheap laugh when the cleric incinerates the injured fighter by accident.

>>46921890
I think what I'll do is allow him the normal healing ability but have his god require him to burn a tree within a day.

What OSR blogs are pit there people recommend?

I've already read all;
>Goblin Punch
>Basic Red
>WWCD
>Wampus Country

Any new ones people can recommend?

>>46921369
>plate armour at level 1
What starting wealth generation method are you using? Base rules would cap each PC at 180sp

>>46922464
He probably just asked them what they want, and when they start playing will just say "oh also your armor is invisible and doesn't do anything because you didn't have enough coins

For B/X or Labyrinth Lord, how would you work out NPC & level demographics?

>>46899458
That's nifty. Not the typical sound I would associate with a tavern, but thanks for teaching me something new.

>>46904104
Neat idea if you know the whole concept, but the players would find it boring very fast.

>"Yeah yeah another clone level, we just go to the stairway the same way we did the last 9 times..."

>>46923645
Actually I had them multiply by 100 instead of 10 because I am retarded. Oops! Better regen.

A question for the truly old grognard, also people that know shit about math.

In Men & Magic, p.18, there is talk about how XP works.

I get the basic : 1gp is worth 1xp, 1hd of monster is worth 100xp, taking into account that the following stuff happens when a dude goes to a level that is less than his level, or beats a monster that has less HD than his level.

The exemple is : an 8th level magic-user is on the fifth level of the dungeon, so if he found money here, he'd only get 5/8 of the xp from it.

If, on this same level, he happens to beat the shit out of a troll (7hd monster worth 700xp) and found his treasure, worth 7000gp, he'd do the following math : (7700/8)*7

Which is, total xp value divided by level, then multiplied by the monster's hit dice.

I assume that all members within the party will get an equal share of XP regardless of how they divide treasure.

So what happens if they find, say, a 50gp cache, then a 100gp cache, then beat two goblins dead and take their 1000gp and then get out of the dungeon?

Do they

>get (1200+150)=1350xp which is then adjusted by level/depth/hit die individually

>get [each small sum adjusted individually]+[1200 adjusted individually]

Also, does it make a difference?

>>46917355
I don't read too much into the arrows. It's all kind of arbitrary where you draw the line anyway. I think that maybe the there needs to be something between green (rewritten but generally compatible) and black (major rules changes) to do things justice. Either that or there needs to be a level beyond black to denote how gigantic of a change there was going to 3e and 4e. I can see how you'd say there are major rules changes going from 1e to 2e (with green meaning "pretty much exactly the same thing with some tweaks"), but then the arrow from 2e to 3e needs to read something like "a completely different game built on similar themes" or something like that. Except that's not quite right either, because that downplays the number of ways that 3e is exactly like old school D&D... but it's still way more different than anything that came before it than any old school edition is from any other old school edition. So in the end, I guess what I'm saying is that though the pic certainly isn't perfect, but I sure don't have all the answers.

>>46924268
It doesn't matter. Let s_i = Level_i / Dungeon_level the scaling factor for the i-th character for a total of n characters, and let XP_1 + XP_2 + ,,, = XP be the total xp, then the xp awarded to the i-th character is given by:

XP_i = s_i * XP / n = s_i * (XP_1 + XP_2 + ,,,) / n = s_i * XP_1 / n + s_i * XP_2 / n + ...

>>46916984
Original Dungeons and Dragons or OD&D
actually describes the 3 Little Brown Books or LBB, with the Supplements I to V being various options thereof.

Classic or Basic D&D is Holmes' Blue Box (which is somewhat close to OD&D but introduces a lot of stuff that will be seen later like the -3 to +3 modifiers), Moldvay's Basic is usually called B/X (Basic/Expert) which comes with Cook's Expert, to differentiate it from Mentzer's Basic to Immortal series, usually coined BECMI.

Rules Cyclopedia and the Challenger Box are both by-products of Mentzer's BECMI.

AD&D, AD&D2 & 2.5 are their own things (AD&D).

D&D 3, 3.5 & Pathfinder are part of another family of games that share the name but a very different gameplay.

D&D 4 is yet again a different take on D&D3, Essentials goes that way too.

D&D 5 is yet again a different take on D&D3, except far more clever (IMO).

What I think is an important distinction is that it should be clear that there is a difference between OD&D (LBB, with or without supplements) and what I like to call Classic or Basic D&D, which starts with Holmes.

AD&D is a different game than Basic, which is a different game than OD&D, and it gets hard to find stuff on OD&D when the term is used to talk about the blue, red or black boxes.

>>46924504
Is this a joke? I'll be glad to look into it and bang my head against the wall to understand it but I'd rather not do it if it's just funky numbers as a clever tease on how wonky the XP system sounds.

>>46924661
by the way don't take it the wrong way, I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just very bad at maths.

>>46924661
>>46924683
I'm sorry, being a physicist I tend to read math easily. It comes down to that it doesn't matter whether you scale the separate pieces of XP and sum everything up or if you sum up the total XP first and then scale individually.

>>46924762
So in any situation, I can add up everything worth XP in a single sum, and at the end of the adventure do the individual adjustments for each characters?

That's pretty cool then, means I don't have to do maths during the game!

Thanks based anon.

>>46922194
False Machine, DnD with Pornstars.

I'm also currently reading Telecanter's Receding Rules

>>46924637
So for a complete B/X, go for Rules Cyclopedia and then the I in BECMI right?

So how can I destroy the players armor and weapons without it feeling cheap?

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>>46925287
Rule Cyclopedia has Immortal Rules, and is mainly a compilation of the whole BECMI series.

If you'd rather have high level play using Moldvay's Basic and Cook's Expert (B/X) as a basis, I'd recommend the B/X Companion instead, which covers levels 15+ without being as whacky as Mentzer or the RC.

The RC is a great ressource nonetheless, because it is huge and full of good stuff.

You can find the B/X Companion in the trove or on the "B/X Blackrazor" blog. The title is in reference to an über-sword, not some edgy weird stuff.

Or, if you're fine with how Mentzer does high level, you can perfectly use just the RC, or just BECMI.

>>46924871
>in any situation
Well, not if your characters adventure over multiple dungeon levels in a single session: you'll have to keep track of the XP earned on each level. Let me illustrate with an example. Let's say there three characters:

Alice (level 3)
Bob (level 2)
Charlie (level 5)

They run through dungeon levels 1 to 3 in a single session, and gather the following XP:

On dungeon level 1, they gather 2500 XP in total.
On dungeon level 2, they gather 2800 XP in total.
On dungeon level 3, they gather 2350 XP in total.

The distribution is then as follows:

Alice: ( 1 / 3 * 2500 + 2 / 3 * 2800 + 3 / 3 * 2350 ) / 3 = 1683 XP
Bob: ( 1 / 2 * 2500 + 2 / 2 * 2800 + 3 / 2 * 2350 ) / 3 = 2525 XP
Charlie: ( 1 / 5 * 2500 + 2 / 5 * 2800 + 3 / 5 * 2350 ) / 3 = 1010 XP

So it's the sum of (character level) / (dungeon level) * (XP gathered on that dungeon level) for all dungeon levels they adventured on, and the result divided by the number of characters.

>>46925544
What's the difference for high level play?

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>>46925497
Without it feeling cheap? You probably can't.

Of course, if they get capture, their shit could get taken. Don't expect your players to be happy about that kind of thing though.

>>46925497
If you want to put the emphasis on repairing/replacing stuff frequently, maybe because your setting features bronze or bone weapons/armor, you could give them a 1 in 20 chance per encounter (or per hit) to break.

>>46925562
That's what I was starting to figure out.
There's still something bugging me though : in the exemple, the 8th level MU beats a Troll (7HD), so he gets to do 7/8 instead of 5/8 (being on the 5th level of the dungeon).

Different treasure being found in different monsters' lairs that have different HD, shouldn't I then track down every instance of looting, writing down whether or not there was a monster with it, its HD, and the level where it happened? For exemple, if the party in your exemple beat a 3HD monster and took its 1000gp on level 2 of the dungeon, it gets a bit more complex, doesn't it?

>>46924268
>>46925659
> Also, does it make a difference?
It could.

In general it is as >>46924504 said
(X+Y)/Z = X/Z + Y/Z

However, when monster level exceeds dungeon level, you use monster level instead of dungeon level.

So, if you are operating on dungeon 1st level, but goblins are 2nd level, you use goblins level instead.

> For exemple, if the party in your exemple beat a 3HD monster and took its 1000gp on level 2 of the dungeon, it gets a bit more complex, doesn't it?
Not really. You replace level with HD.

For 5th level character formula would be: 1300 / 5x3, instead of 1300/5x2

1300 - monster total xp (treasure + HD)

>>46925773
> You replace dungeon level with monster HD.
Fix

>>46925617
In RC/BECMI, once you get to name level (9th), you don't get anything special after that except better numbers. It's also typically the level where you start getting responsabilities. Though there won't be much difference between 14th level play and 36th level play, at least until you become an Immortal.

With the B/X Companion, I believe there are a bit more crunchy bits between 15th and 36th level. It is not a huge difference, but I think I'd go with this one because it's cleanier and B/X in itself already offers a lot to do if you're not planning on starting out at high level.

For exemple, the Fighter gets multiple attacks, the Thief gets new almost-supernatural abilities, stuff like that. I don't much for this but some players like crunchy bits, and it keeps it digestible. I think in the end it's a matter of taste, I'd say take all the books, and see what speaks to you best.

>>46925652
I'd say a rust monster would be a non-cheap way to destroy weapons. It's just that I don't want to introduce that kind of creature yet for the sake of the campaign I'm running.

>>46925659
Having weapon/equipment breakage is something I'd actually like to add. The rule you present feels a bit too punishing though, maybe there could be a chance that it breaks when fumbling?

>>46925497
Gray ooze.

>>46925659
Yeah, I think your right. I just read up on the rules in de Men & Magic: I'm not familiar with the OD&D ruleset.

Indeed, it seems that you have to keep track of the "guard level" of the treasure that you find: it's the first time I read it like that. So, the treasure you find lying around in the dungeon gets scaled with the dungeon level, the treasure that is guarded by a monster gets scaled by the monster level.

>>46925833
Actually, I usually rule out that rolling a 1 with a silver or otherwise fragile weapon means it breaks. If you want a gritty feel, you can totally say it happens everytime.

>>46925773
Oh man, am I bad at this.
How does it work if, say, they get 1000gp with a 3HD monster, then another 1000gp with a 5HD monster. Should I note them down separately, or do I take the higher value (HD or level) per level, overall?

>>46925981
>everytime
I meant with any type of weapon.

>>46925497
>>46925659
Maybe if an attack misses by a single point (indicating a hard block/deflection) then roll a d6 to see what happens:
1 = defender's weapon damaged
2 = defender's armor damaged*
3 = attacker's weapon damaged
4 = attacker's weapon damaged if striking vs. shield or metal armor
5-6 = nothing

If something is damaged, you could roll again to see how major the damage is:
1-3 = minor (AC or damage at -1, or to-hit at -2)
4-6 = major (AC cut in half, or weapon destroyed)

*Maybe the defender can choose to sacrifice his shield (which is automatically destroyed) to avert armor damage?

>>46926052
That means that weapon damage occurs on 1 out of 30 blows when the defender has metal armor or a shield, or 1 out 40 when he doesn't. If you think this is overly harsh, you could change the d6 roll to a d10 (so that 5-10 indicates that nothing occurs), giving you chances of 1/50 and 1/67.

>>46926052
That sounds a bit tedious, especially considering the abstract nature of combat. If you want weapon breakage to happen during fights, maybe put it in a cool critical/fumble charts.

Also usually you sacrifice a shield to avoid taking a hit, I guess in this case you could use it to avoid taking the crit.

Yet another way would be to allow players to lose their armor the same way you lose a shield, to prevent a killing blow.

Also, check out the Challenge Game System by Tom Moldvay, which has some more granularity in the results of an attack roll, you might be able to work that stuff into it.

>>46926198
>That sounds a bit tedious, especially considering the abstract nature of combat. If you want weapon breakage to happen during fights, maybe put it in a cool critical/fumble charts.
How is that any different? Either way, on 1 out of 20 results, you're rolling on a table.

>>46925981
> How does it work if, say, they get 1000gp with a 3HD monster, then another 1000gp with a 5HD monster. Should I note them down separately, or do I take the higher value (HD or level) per level, overall?
Separately, unless multiplier is the same in both cases.

In this specific case (5 HD monster) - unless it's 5th dungeon level or deeper, XP should be calculated separately.

>>46926234
Ah yes, yes you're right, my bad.
I just do max damage on natural 20s, nothing special on 1s (in OD&D, I don't feel there's the need for more hardcore-ness than there already is so I don't dwell too much on this kind of house rules).

>>46926260
Understood. I think I'll put up an excel that separates dungeon levels with an entry for each looting, with a with and without monster part. his way I'll just keep track of things that I can check easily if I'm in doubt when calculating XP, and do the totals at the end of the session.

Thanks for being understanding, anon.

Does anyone have a good PDF for keeping count of rounds and turns?

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>>46926717

>>46925544
>Rule Cyclopedia has Immortal Rules, and is mainly a compilation of the whole BECMI series.
Lies and slander.

Unless you're counting Wrath of the Immortals, in which case I'll just have to say that while you're TECHNICALLY correct you're also kind of horribly wrong.

The Rules Cyclopedia doesn't even have artifacts, and those were in the Master set!

>>46925805
>In RC/BECMI, once you get to name level (9th), you don't get anything special after that except better numbers.
You're thinking of B/X - BECMI is the one that starts handing you Weapon Mastery and giving Fighters Cleric spells and Demihumans special abilities/attack ranks and all kinds of stuff.

Unless you're a Thief, in which case good luck I suppose?

>>46926175
>That means that weapon damage* occurs on 1 out of 30 blows
*weapon, armor or shield damage, that is.

>>46926052
Or, to make it easy to remember, just do a succession of binary rolls.

If you miss by one, roll a d6 to see if something happens.

Is something damaged?
1-3 something damaged
4-6 nothing

Whose thing is damage?
1-3 attack
4-6 defender

What thing is damaged?
1-3 weapon
4-6 armor (if defender) or nothing (if attacker)*

How bad is damage?
1-3 minor
4-6 major

*maybe attacker's weapon automatically takes damage if striking vs. metal armor or the equivalent.

It's a couple of extra rolls, but each step is obvious, so you don't have to reference a table.

>>46925497
>>46926052
>>46926198
>>46929664
Check out the breakage system from Last Gasp Grimoire. The most recent iteration is buried in this post (http://www.lastgaspgrimoire.com/arts-crafts-morbidly-encumbered-edition/), but it's probably described more directly elsewhere too, I just can't be bothered to look it up.

Point is, it's the only remotely interesting set of rules for equipment breakage I've ever seen. And you have to admit, it's pretty damn neat. Shit like "if you miss by 1, make a series of 4d6 rolls to determine what gets damaged and how" is gonna fall totally flat at the table, and it isn't worth the effort.

I'm not saying introducing Last Gasp's system IS worth the effort either, but I think he's got the right idea: if you're going to add breakage rules, they need to feel interesting while also being simple to resolve. Anything else is just added baggage weighing your game down, and you don't need that.

>>46929854
>Shit like "if you miss by 1, make a series of 4d6 rolls to determine what gets damaged and how" is gonna fall totally flat at the table, and it isn't worth the effort.
It's not something you'd want to do often, but because it's a special thing, it shouldn't be a problem (both because it wastes little game time overall due to its low frequency of occurrence , and because it's interesting when it does happen because it's something special). Only 1/20 of the time do you need to roll any additional dice. Only 1/40 of the time do you need to roll more than one.

The weapon break rules you linked to are significantly more involved, if I understand them right from glancing over them. You need to allocate weapons to inventory slots ahead of time, then you need to roll which item is affected, then you need to calculate and roll against its breakage value. You are going to be rolling more dice more often than with either >>46929664 or >>46926052. Now, it's also more sophisticated, so may well be worth the effort, but they certainly aren't the quick, easy approach.

What rule or option in OSR do you tend to gloss over?

I've never used or had a PC use a hireling. I tend to be lenient with encumberence unless it gets absurd (although I like LotFPs take on it). And I don't much keep track of time very thoroughly and usually do random encounter rolls whenever it feels right or I remember.

>>46930561
I do literally everything you said.

>>46928288
>Unless you're counting Wrath of the Immortals, in which case I'll just have to say that while you're TECHNICALLY correct you're also kind of horribly wrong.
>The Rules Cyclopedia doesn't even have artifacts, and those were in the Master set!

So RC + MI of BECMI?

Quick bump off page 9

http://www.dizzydragon.net/adventuregenerator/gen

Best dungeon generator? This plus the Dungeon Alphabet would make a great combo.

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>>46921568
Why does the Cleric-must-be-lawful trope exist?
it's so tired and dated.

>>46934698
Gods are Lawful. Demons are Chaotic.

Clerics worship gods.

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>>46936633
>Implying their aren't evil Gods

>>46936748
>implying lawful = good and chaotic = evil

>>46932131
Nah, the Rules Cyclopedia still has the monsters and spells and Weapon Mastery of the Master set. It's just missing artifacts, presumably because those are fairly linked to Immortals.

There's a lot of small differences between BECMI and the Rules Cyclopedia that make me prefer the former, to be honest. The RC has some very 2Eish philosophy running through it.

>>46934698
It dates back to OD&D, where Patriarchs are lawful most-definitely-not-christians, while Evil High Priests are chaotic most-definitely-not-satanists.

Law is the side of Gondor, Chaos is the side of Sauron; Neutral is the neutral in-between, and the neutral Cleric is also known as "Druid".

>>46936748
I'm gonna guess that Azathoth is the drawfag, because unless you're talking about Yeenoghu that image isn't terribly related to your post.

Also, Law=/=Good and Chaos=/=Evil. It's two sides in a war of existence, but there can be good and bad apples on either side. Your Denethors and Smeagols.

>>46911347
>RuneQuest tried to pull off a system like this and everybody quickly learnt it plays HORRIBLY.
Chaosium's RuneQuest (BRP) is one of the sleekest roleplaying systems out there maybe excluding combat. You're talking shit out of your arse.

On a related note, RuneQuest 2 is getting an updated release called RuneQuest Classic. That might interest some OSR fa/tg/uys. There's already a pdf.

>>46915448
AD&D 1e IS a horrible mess and no one denies it. It's not a good set of rules by any standards. On the other hand the Basic and Expert rules by Moldvay and Cook are lightweight and to the point. Very usable even today.

>>46937060
Clerics can be chaotic evil though.

>>46937235
Not in LotFP, which we are discussing.

>>46937181
>It's not a good set of rules by any standards.
It's very good taken as a whole, flavourful as all hell.
It's when you start looking to closely at individual bits it starts showing cracks, which is why almost everyone who ran it ignored large chunks of it. (or just ran B/X and bolted on the bits from AD&D they liked)

Newbie DM with a hum of how an OSR game can/should go. Newbie players who want to try "D&D".
Swords and Wizardry Complete, Labyrinth Lord or AD&D 1E /tg/?

>>46937624
S&W and LL are both great choices. In the grand scale it doesn't really matter which you choose. I would definitely avoid AD&D because reasons mentioned earlier ITT.

>>46937624
>Swords and Wizardry Complete, Labyrinth Lord or AD&D 1E /tg/?
Given those choices, I'd say Labyrinth Lord. It's the most streamlined and you can always bring in stuff from its Advanced Edition Companion when and if you want to branch out. 1e is a distant third after S&W Complete.

>>46925562
> + 3 / 2 * 2350 )
This is wrong. Bob does not get a 3/2 multiplier on dungeon level 3, as per page 17 of M&M.
>Experience points are never awarded above a 1 for 1 basis, so even if a character defeats a higher-level monster he will not receive experience points above the total of treasure combined with the monster’s kill value.

>>46937880
Yeah, I realized that after actually reading M&M.

>>46937624
S&W and LL are what you are looking for. Maybe instead of S&W Complete, you could check out S&W Whitebox for a more minimal approach. AD&D 1E is great, but should be seen more as a source of inspiration than a game to play by the book. It's perfectly fine to start with Basic D&D (LL) and bolt on stuff from AD&D 1E (AEC), which is basically what >>46937791
is suggesting

>>46937235
Okay,here's how LotFP does alignment.
'lawful' means 'holy'. If it's part of the divine plan for the world, it's lawful.
'neutral' means 'mundane'
'chaotic' means 'magical'. Magic comes from outside the natural world and isn't part of the divine plan. That's why it's the opposite of lawful.

There's no moral element to it. You can be a lawful asshole or a chaotic lovely dude.

>>46904757
I have an idea for a dungeon level that is basically called the Statuary. Its filled with serpentine medusae (the ones with snek tails for legs, poison blood, and use bows with poisoned arrows). Cutting off the head of a medusa gives a tiny chance that a Greater Pegasus springs from the hed.

There's a large shaft leading to the surface where you can use to fly your Greater Pegasus out.

There's an elite order called the Pegasus Knights, they all gained their Pegasus themselves. On average, you would gain about 8 levels of XP (last time I calculated it) if you were a level 1 char who somehow killed that many medusas.

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I've never understood why people find D&D's alignment confusing, I suspect It's mostly in feign because it upsets their sensibilities.

>>46939529
Its less confusion and that as more alignments were added they meant less and less.

>>46939557
It wasn't caused by more alignments, it was caused by a intense focus on mechanical content rather than fluff.

For example the Orc Baby "Dilemma" isn't really a dilemma at all, both choices are Lawful Good. Alignment wasn't a fundamental force, It represented a contract with your deity, not the entire pantheon, other players or GM.

>>46939529
I don't think the alignments are confusing in and of themselves, they're just applied in arbitrary ways that DON'T make sense ("Clerics must be lawful!") and they're altogether pretty silly anyway.

Plus, you then have some games (see >>46939427) that take the same descriptive words for alignment but change their meaning, which I'm sure might confuse some folks.

>>46939672
>It wasn't caused by more alignments,

Of course it was. Just spelling out "Good" and Evil" was a massive dilution of alignment and largely defeating the purpose, then adding another 4 to the 5 alignment system completely borked everything up. And so, alignment became about mere "is your character good or bad?" "mm... he's good but he doesn't listen to anybody or follow the rules! xD"

>it was caused by a intense focus on mechanical content rather than fluff.

Yeah, no. The alignments were more detailed, but they also became meaningless. Gee, do I pick the side of Good or Bad? What a fucking dilemma.

>Alignment wasn't a fundamental force

There it is. An example of how alignment was removed and replaced with something essentially irrelevant. The whole point of alignment was, indeed, fundamental cosmic forces. There's no need for it otherwise.

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>>46939738
Your post screams Forgotten Realms.

>>46939909
Yeah Forgotten Realms isn't known for prioritizing your patron deity or having nine point alignments..

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>>46939427
>Magic comes from outside the natural world and isn't part of the divine plan. That's why it's the opposite of lawful.

...yet Clerics are granted magic by their deity to further a 'divine plan'. Whether or not that God's motives are good or evil renders them Lawful or Chaotic, no? DCC took this approach as well. I think it adds more interesting options for the Cleric.

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>>46939427
>>46941224

unless of course you're talking about LotFP's 16th Century European setting. Then I gotchu.

>>46941224
> ...yet Clerics are granted magic by their deity to further a 'divine plan'. Whether or not that God's motives are good or evil renders them Lawful or Chaotic, no?

No. All Gods are Lawful in LotFP. I strongly suspect the same is true for OD&D (Lolth was a demon lord, no?).

>>46939909
I don't think FR introduced alignment languages or characters inherently and intuitively knowing what their alignment is and what that means.

>>46939956
Isn't that the point? In Dragonlance alignment was a formally declared vow to a particular deity; which are essentially quasi-cosmic forces.

What are some good alternative aesthetics for a cleric, besides a pseudo-catholic holy warrior?

I canthink of The Van Helsing. Witch Hunters. The Aeris Healer. Druids.

>>46941224
>Whether or not that God's motives are good or evil renders them Lawful or Chaotic, no
In LotFP? nope.
If it's divine, it's lawful. Because lawful is another word for divine. So clerics, divine powers, are lawful by definition.
If it's chaotic, that means it's outside the divine plan and unnatural, which basically means it's magic.
If a cleric was chaotic, that would mean that their divine powers were outside the divine plan, which would be fuckin' stupid.
I don't see how this is so hard to grock.

>>46942683
> What are some good alternative aesthetics for a cleric, besides a pseudo-catholic holy warrior?
Van Helsing does not cast spells. What kind of cleric are you thinking about?

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>>46942683
Buddhist warrior monks or Aztec warrior priests.

>>46942764
Because I've only ever played DCC and 5e.

>>46942683
Himalayan monks in orange robes. Indian yogis. 40k-style death cultists. Wild-eyed prophets of the apocalypse. Greek-style children of the gods. Mystics who commune with angels. Holy revolutionaries leading slaves against an evil empire. Voudoun priests. The prophet of Delphi.

Basically it depends on what religion is like in your setting. One of my favourite clerics was Rabbi Ivan Stechler in my LotFP game, who was a cantankerous old man sick of having to protect God's people from horrible things with tentacles.

>>46939427
>>46942764
This seems kind of silly. Why call them "lawful" and "chaotic" when that isn't what you mean? Why not have the alignment axis just be "divine" v. "magical"?

>>46943552
> This seems kind of silly. Why call them "lawful" and "chaotic" when that isn't what you mean?
Moorcock's influence.

Also, Law does not have to be just.

What purpose does Holy Water serve? There isn't a damage listed, so I'm assuming it isn't used as a weapon.

>>46943552
>>46943671

Adding to >>46943671, divine vs magical is already covered by lawful vs chaotic. It's just a more flavorful way of saying there is some kind of natural, divine plan (lawful) that is at odds with some sort of external, magical intrusion (chaotic). The problem with saying divine v magical is that you lose the internal and external aspects; Lawful is inherent in nature and the will of the gods, Chaos is random, not understandable and not part of any kind of plan.

>>46944212
> What purpose does Holy Water serve? There isn't a damage listed, so I'm assuming it isn't used as a weapon.
What edition?

LotFP? It deals damage against Chaos (i.e. anyone of Chaotic alignment - this includes MU and Elves). Should be listed somewhere.

>>46944212
If you're talking about B/X or something, try skimming through the monster descriptions - off the top of my head I think vampires have a weakness to the stuff, and I think AD&D might have done something similar to demons or maybe even undead in general.

The original OD&D equipment lists have a few specific "counter" items - garlic and holy water for vampires, wolfsbane and silver for werewolves, mirrors for medusas, and so on and so forth.

>>46945816
Yeah, LotFP. There's a section on it under the Clerics shit in the back, but it says nothing about what it DOES.

>>46946257
>>46945816

Nvm. Found it in Encounters. D8 damage.

If I wrote up a mini module a little smaller than the size of KotBL, would some of you dudes wanna play it in B/X format? It'd just be a small 40/40 mile hex crawl with a few fortune finding dungeons in it. It'd be in text-only IRC, probably critkeeper.

speaking of critkeeper, is the B/X blank character sheet link broken or something? It links to some lewd asian site.

I don't have a printer, is there any trick to drawing equilateral hexes on plain/squared?

>>46947775
plain/squared paper, even.

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Looking for a city-crawl supplement similar to Vornheim. More random tables, the better.

Also, does anyone know a decent app (Android) to generate instant NPC stats?

>>46894258
How do you guys deal with players who stare silently into the void and, when prompted on what they think about [situation at hand], just think for a minute then mumble "I don't know" most of the time?

When ignored, their behavior worsen.

When pressed on the matter, they are as wordless as usual.

With a lot of care and attention that isn't properly shared through the table (as is required to run a proper game, at least for me), they might speak up with hesitation, retreating back inside their carapace at the slightest interruption or disapproval from the "active" players.

I'm not talking about "That Guy" here, I've seen each of my silent players do great stuff when they were amongst themselves (that is, after I left them for half an hour to make them understand that if they weren't gonna play, I wasn't gonna hold their hands for them).

In a nutshell : how do I keep the pace and *everyone* interested when there are potted plants in the party?

>>46951080
From the Trove, check out the City of the Ultimate Overlord for OD&D, by Judge's Guild.

Anyone played Microlite 74? My group wants to try running it, I'd like to hear some opinions before I learn the system.

>>46951793
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQsJSqn71Fw

Man, what can I give my players to spend all their gold on?

I've been thinking of instituting the rule that players gain XP for each gold piece SPENT. But it doesn't solve a problem I often see, which is that players simply feel like they have nothing worth spending their money on.

Restocking on gear will only eat up so much of your cash, for example. I want to give my players more meaningful ways to invest their coin. What do you guys think?

>>46951793
God, I fucking hate that shit. If you're going to play a game that requires interaction with other people, speak the fuck up. I'm not saying you need to wave your arms like a spastic retard, or do screwy voices or anything, but for fucks sake don't make me think I could replace you with a fucking FICUS AND GET MORE RESPONSE FROM THE DAMNED PLANT.

FUCK this pisses me off, because I've seen so many games go down the shitter because of it.

>>46954833
Property! Laboratories! Titles! Guild Ranks! Horses! A ship! Rad clothing! Spells! Bodyguards! Weapon upgrades!

>>46954833

Give them a keep or a village of some kind, someplace they can return between adventures and see how their money has improved the place. "We spent our extra gold on improving irrigation, now the farmers have a wonderful harvest and the village is prospering. Another haul like that and we could build a canal to make trade easier."

>>46954833
Shiny shit being the obvious. If they're the group that killed the Red Dragon of Fuckthatplace, have them need to spend money to make sure people know. Bards and songspinners don't work for free, and especially if the dragon's hoard was even 1/10th the size they say it is.

Taxes are also a helluva money sink, especially if the party went into a tomb or whatnot off the beaten path, only to come out to a group of the local government's tax and tariff collectors waiting with baited breath. Like in the real world, you have a son of a shepherd throw enough money around and Big Brother's gonna wonder where that came from.

Not only that, but as you said, gear may need to be restocked, and equipment be repaired. Thing is, not every blacksmith they come across may be as scrupulous in making sure they're using the best material, and hell, may not even be a blacksmith in the first place (just a really convincing thief). I'm not saying they need to replace their weapons and armor after every fight, but materials aren't always readily available at the drop of a hat, nor are they coppers on the gold piece.

If you want to go with more of the investment route, you can always have the players slowly move away from the active adventuring life (or at least slow it down) and have them become more patrons, whether of the arts, craftsmen, or even other adventuring parties. Hell, that last one... con't

>>46955157
Let's say one of your Fighters becomes the patron of an up-and-coming young group of dungeon divers, and takes a bit of a shining to them. Not that it's not to be expected, considering his offspring are running with that particular group. Then a routine run comes and goes, and that group doesn't come back to the home town in the expected time. Days turn into weeks, and Fighter McGee gets worried. He calls the band back together, and while everyone may be a little rusty from not doing the dungeon thing, that's his kid, dammit. Off they go, and come to find out there's more than meets the eye on this particular quest.

From there, you can go the whole planar travel route, in that the newbies are stuck in a plane they're not ready for. Political intrigue is good too, in that "wrong place at the wrong time to see the wrong kind of shit go down, oh fuck we're made RUN".

Now you have something that will let some time pass, let the characters grow into something not solely defined as "X role in a party", and have some sort of later-game all set out for you, and all this coming off of "my players are rich, what do".

>>46939738
>the 5 alignment system
I'm not sure if Holmes uses this or not.
>Characters may be lawful (good or evil), neutral or chaotic (good or evil).
Is that LG, LN, LE, N, CG, CN, CE, or LG, LE, N, CG, CE?

>>46951793
It's either because they're out of their comfort zone or because they don't care at all for the story or how it's being told.
Talk to them about which it is and how to rectify it, or ask them to leave the group. Or talk to them and then ask them to if it's a problem that you can't fix or would rather not 'fix'.

>>46954833
Land, homes, furnishings for homes, shinier armor, more lush clothes, better food, better lodgings, gifts for potential romantic or business partners. Fine-bred horses. The finest mooks, henchmen, and hirelings money can buy!
What do people buy in real life when they win the lottery?

In fact, I think I would literally ask the players that, and individually if I could.
"Man, Sir Baldric has a lot of gold now. Hey, what would he do if he won the lottery? We'll work the details into the game, it'll be fun"
"I bet 'Fast Hands' is really enjoying living the high life with all this money. Let's spitball what he's doing with it"
Work with them and you can do something everybody thinks is cool, and *everybody* will get more invested in the characters and the world they inhabit.

>>46951080
Check out the supplements from Midkemia Press.

Cities was used as a base for Rune Quest Cities (perhaps also other products):

A sampler and some other free stuff is here:

http://www.midkemia.com/

>>46954833
> Restocking on gear will only eat up so much of your cash, for example. I want to give my players more meaningful ways to invest their coin. What do you guys think?
Henchmen. Armies of henchmen.

>>46957033
Holmes uses the LG, LE, N, CG, CE system - it's the same one that was previously introduced in one of the later issues of The Strategic Review.

Also, it's the same one that was in use in the Monster Manual, which as we all know is a secret Holmes supplement.

>>46961472
Although the Monster Manual backdoors in NG and NE as Neutral (Good) and Neutral (Evil), making it a de facto 7-alignment system.

Has anybody tried flipping the assumptions so civilized lawful forces are the bad guys, and chaos is the good guys?
Like, maybe you have an evil empire run by high-level intelligent monsters (dragons, or aboleths, or mind-flayers, or vampires, or devils) with human and goblinoid slaves. Crime-riddled, cramped cities belching smoke and filth into the air. Draconian laws and brutal subjugation of conquered people. Religion worshipping a cruel god, centred around human sacrifice and blind obedience to cruel priest-kings. Civilization ruining the natural world.
In contrast to this, chaotic forces are noble savages and rebels fighting against the evil empire. Champions of the natural world and freedom, striking against the forces of tyranny and fading back into the wilderness. Obviously they're doomed since lawful civilization is grinding relentlessly forward, but you get a lovely sense of doomed tragedy.

You could even do five-point alignment. Something like:
chaotic good - chaotic - neutral - lawful - lawful evil
Where chaotic good and lawful evil are active champions of law and chaos, whilst chaotic and lawful are just part of the barbarian or civilized cultures without making an active spiritual choice about it.

up

City-crawling on a mat: best done on a hex with each containing a certain assortment of buildings and encounters, or drawn dungeon-esque on a grid?

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I find this interestng.
hillcantons dot blogspot dot fr/2011/08/no-borders-or-limits-conversation-with dot html

>>46966641

Try linking it as hillcantons.blogspot.co.nz/2011/08/no-borders-or-limits-conversation-with.html because New Zealand is apparantly cool in 4chan's books. Must be some Lord of the Rings thing I guess.

>>46966873
Thanks. I suck at not being spam, apparently.
Anyway, thoughts? I wonder what the founding fathers think/would have thought of the OSR.

>>46966953

I hear Kuntz is pretty big on the OSR.

>>46964690
Draw a city map and adventure by the street. Grids probably aren't needed.

Anybody knows where to find the OD&D "Supplement V" version of Carcosa by Geoffrey McSomething? The trove has the LotFP version, and it's lovely, but I'm running OD&D and thought it would be neat to see what it has to offer.

I'm willing to buy a pdf, btw, but am not interested in print, as my mailman is a thief and an asshole.

>>46930561
I use all of those rules. For dungeon crawling, encumbrance, time tracking, and random encounters are the iron triangle that makes it worth doing.

Encumbrance makes players choose between the amount of protective gear they can wear into the dungeon, how many supplies they can take to stay in the dungeon longer, and the amount of loot they can carry back.. and then balances all of these choices against their actual rate of exploration and if necessary how quickly they can escape if they have to run.

Time tracking makes the speed of exploration from encumbrance meaningful, particularly in terms of the supplies they can carry. Do you want to stay longer? You need more torches, oil, and rations. It also makes things like checking for traps and secret doors a tactical choice.

Wandering encounters are what gives the rest of it teeth. The more cautious you are about traps and secret rooms, the longer you hang around and the more likely you are to get a wandering encounter. The more stuff you carry, the slower you move, the longer it will take you to explore a given area, the more likely you will be to hit a random encounter. Each random encounter has the potential to drain your supplies and resources or outright wipe the party if you aren't careful.

The three parts work in tandem to make dungeon crawling do what it does. You can hand wave any part of that, I guess, but you're missing out for it and it really doesn't take all that much effort to do.

Now if you aren't playing a dungeon crawl, then maybe you don't need all of the above. If I'm playing heroic-style fantasy and I'm concerned with a story rather than exploration, the above can be overlooked entirely.

>>46930561
Henchmen and hirelings are huge resources. They are practically a requirement for some old school modules as some were written for groups of 6-10 rather than the more common 3-5 players that most games have now. They also form a big part of the logistics of the party - torchbearers for light, additional hands to help carry loot, etc. Mercenaries can help round out a party and all of the above are extremely useful when a PC dies. Most of our replacement PCs are NPCs that got a promotion.

>>46969807
>torchbearers for light

Yeah, this is huge. Penalties from darkness are a killer, and having a guy behind you with a torch means you can have both sword and board, and still see to use them.
In addition, a guy whose job is to bring light can light torches and toss them into darkened rooms to light the whole area for you. There's a 1 in 3 chance the thrown torch will go out, but it's not like he's there to carry anything else before you find a pile of loot.
(My party would usually have the magic user fill this guy's role where possible, though, since paying some snot-nosed punk is less optimal than levelling a mage)

>>46930561
I mostly play variants of basic, so the only rules I tend to find annoying are things like ability score requirements for this or that class. I don't really care for prime requisite XP bonuses either, but they aren't such a pain that I am going to worry about them one way or another.

>>46921568
Clerics are lawful in LotFP because of the specific way the cosmology in LotFP is described.

>>46934698
Can you name some places outside of LotFP where this is a trope for it to be "tired and dated?" You could have chaotic clerics in B/x -- and even OD&D, if I recall. I'm inclined to call bullshit.

In LotFP, there is nothing remotely implying that Law and Chaos have anything to do with personal morality. Clerics by definition worship gods, which can be of any kind of moral dimension one wants to portray. That has nothing to do with their alignment.

>>46962971
> Has anybody tried flipping the assumptions so civilized lawful forces are the bad guys, and chaos is the good guys?
Not quite so blatant, but basically everything Robert E Howard (Conan, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn) wrote about was essentially this - civilization is a whim of circumstance and a force that causes men to fall from his purest, primal state into decadence and decay, only to lead to collapse and rebirth again as primal man.

>>46970026
> (My party would usually have the magic user fill this guy's role where possible, though, since paying some snot-nosed punk is less optimal than levelling a mage)
Until you remember that the snot-nosed punk is going to be able to carry back more treasure than you pay him out - a net gain for leveling!

>>46970026

>not having enough income to have an old wizard mass produce light spell scrolls and having a level 1 wizard cast them all day.

>>46970809
Would you really want to? The cost and time to produce each scroll and then the cost of hiring a level 1 wizard to cast them is going to vastly outweigh even the cost of hiring a dozen men, giving them the best armor and having them do nothing but hold torches -- and then those dudes can carry extra loot for you.

I may just be blind but I can't seem to find anything in the trove that tells me sat blocks for the odd races for 2e's Dark Sun setting in the Trove. Anyone know where I can find this in an actual book?

>>46970809
That's just a stopgap until you can get your wizard to cast Continual Light on a coin, put it at the end of a capped wooden tube, and then strap it to your head or something.

>>46971099
Have you tried the Dark Sun core box? Both versions of it are under TSR/05 Settings/Dark Sun/Dark Sun Boxed Sets.

Original is after The Verdant Passage, but before the adventure Freedom. Revised is post-Cerulean Storm.

>>46970149
>Can you name some places outside of LotFP where this is a trope for it to be "tired and dated?" You could have chaotic clerics in B/x -- and even OD&D, if I recall. I'm inclined to call bullshit.
I'm not that dude, but this is only technically true in OD&D - Patriarchs are always Lawful, and Evil High Priests are always Chaotic. The latter is part of the weird kinda-class that is the Anti-Cleric, though, which has all the reversed spells but none of the non-reversed ones. Lots of debuffs and direct damage and Fingers of Death but no buffs or healing or Raise Dead.

It's kind of interesting, to be honest, and an aspect that survived all the way into 3E in some ways - 3E Clerics can't cast spells of opposite alignment, mostly, and have the whole Turn/Rebuke Undead and spontaneous Cure/Cause Wounds thing going as well.
4E Clerics don't have a universal spell list and thus work completely differently, obviously, and 5E Clerics don't even have [Evil] spells as far as I'm aware. Domains still let you have some differentiation, but it's not quite as extreme.

>>46971185
yeah i checked them out. it describes the races but never says what stat requirements/modifiers they have or anything on their racial abilities.
I know they've been published somewhere because I've seen it online, but none of it had citation so I want to verify it in some published material.

>>46972417
>never says what stat requirements/modifiers they have or anything on their racial abilities.
From the original box: Racial ability mods are on page 3 of the DS Rule Book, same with ability requirements. Note that DS uses a different method of stat generation, detailed on p2 of same. Special abilities are in the racial descriptions on pages 5-17.

>>46972703
In the revised box, see the chapter Creating Characters in Age of Heroes, specifically the Racial Overview and Player Character Races sections.

>>46972748
Oh wow I didn't realize there was an entire second book appended onto the end. Thanks

I've been thinking a lot about damage and dying, specifically in LotFP, recently.

One theme of LotFP, as I see it, is that player characters really shouldn't be able to fully deal with dungeons/adventures and should either die trying or come back very differently. A bit like a horror movie or whatever.

Because of that theme I wanted to add some system for dismemberment and scarring, and for a while I tried the system that 10 foot polemic came up with. The problem with that system is that it's messy and all too often very similar and a bit too unforgiving or just ends up in straight up death anyway.

So I was thinking, how about a system where when the character reaches 0 HP (or -3 or whatever), he gets to make a choice of either dying and making a new character, or get some kind of scar or dismemberment that is rolled on a random table that will permanently lower stats. By doing that, players can keep playing the characters they get attached to, but they also get more and more crippled as they play. At some point age catches up with them or they must retire.

What do you guys think about this? Maybe it's already been done?

>>46972911
>he gets to make a choice of either dying and making a new character, or get some kind of scar or dismemberment that is rolled on a random table that will permanently lower stats.
I like it, but roll first and then let the player decide.

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>>46947743
Fixed.

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looking for maps like this to use city building.

>>46899280
https://youtu.be/suPG_lmAN58
https://youtu.be/-m7lie_5sxQ
https://youtu.be/oW4rs5P8WaI

>>46974476
Look up Harnworld city maps, they're the most welll detailed maps out there and can be used for street level play.

>>46974476
This is the maddening attention to detail I like in city and town maps. It's the reason I have trouble creating them too. My compulsive attention to detail makes me want to make an accurate as possible settlement rather than a simple home base for my players.

>>46974360
hey thanks. Is it ever possible we will see an RC version? That's my preferred OSR and I'd love to see that in critkeeper.

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>>46975179
give me a minute and let me see what I can do.

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>>46975179
Alright. Try it now. My server is being a shit, so it links to an offsite version, for now.

Has anyone played any of the Microlite games? I read over Microlite20 and it seems pretty great for my running style. Could anyone share their experiences?

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>>46975179
>>46975639

fuck my old host. new [critkeeper] URL is here:

http://critkeeper.site88.net/

>>46972911
http://dyingstylishly.blogspot.co.nz/2016/04/how-i-handle-hitpoints.html
Here's my houserules around HP and dying.
Basically it takes the Last Gasp system of flesh and grit. When you run out of Flesh, any damage is looked up on a table of 'what bad shit happens to you', with some of the results killing you instantly, some meaning you're going to die soon, and some meaning you're just crippled.
It works pretty nicely, in my experience.

>>46974476
>barbarian shop

What does that one sell? Loincloths, sandals and broadswords?

>>46977243

You're not far off. Let's see: The shop is run by Brogart Raskat, an "easily angered Berserker" who's a level 4 Fighter. He runs the place with six gnome assistance, and apparently sells swords and leather armor, custom made for the customer. He also sells giant leeches for 10 gp, snakes for 1 sp, javelins, 3 sp, belts and scabbards with silver studs, 2 gp. He's also got a treasure map hidden in a stuffed crocodile that's supposed to lead to a citadel containing a mammoth amethyst, worth 50,000 gp, which he will grudgingly sell for 250 gp. It's a fake.

Friends don't let friends do Purple Lotus

>>46977668
Only Haga.

Hey /OSR/, where does it say in OD&D that monsters always attack in the dungeon except when grievously outnumbered?

>>46979731
It don't believe it does so: you've got reaction rolls and morale rolls to model the fight-or-flee behavior of monsters.

>>46979731
Underworld & Wilderness Adventures page 13, "Avoiding Monsters":
>Monsters will automatically attack and/or pursue any characters they "see", with the exception of those monsters which are intelligent enough to avoid an obviously superior force.

Note how this is in the dungeon section, and might not be quite as applicable for wilderness exploration!

Also, there's a section a bit later:
>Random Actions by Monsters: Other than in pursuit situations, the more intelligent monsters will act randomly according to the results of the score rolled on two (six-sided) dice: [Insert reaction table here]


Note also page 12-13 of Men & Magic, with the last paragraphs of the Non-Player Characters section:
>Monsters can be lured into service, if they are of the same basic alignment as the player-character, or they can be Charmed and thus ordered to serve. Note, however, that the term "monster" includes men found in the dungeons, so in this way some high-level characters can be brought into a character's service, charisma allowing or through a Charm spell. Some reward must be offered to a monster in order to induce it into service (not just sparing its life, for example). The monster will react with appropriate plusses or minuses (according to the offer, the referee rolling two six-sided dice and adjusting for charisma: [insert B/X's reaction table here]
And the Capture of Non-Player Monsters bit:
>Capture of Non-Player Monsters: Morale dice can cause a man or intelligent monster to attempt to surrender or become subdued. When this happens an offer of service can be made (assuming that communication is possible) as outlined above. Subdued monsters will obey for a time without need to check their reactions, and such monsters are salable (see Volume II).

>>46973962
You think that would be better? I thought it would be interesting to let the player decide first then roll on a table, with lower rolls being worse fates and higher rolls being a bit more forgiving. But I guess it could be interesting to have the player squirm and consider if it is really worth losing both your legs just to keep living.

>>46976076
This seems pretty good, but I think I'm personally looking for an even simpler system. Will probably take inspiration from this though.

So, what qualifies as "OSR"? Does it have to be AD&D/OD&D inspired, or just an oldschool RPG?

I use a lot of OSR stuff in my campaigns as far as adventures, inspiration, bestiary, etc. but I do not use any of the actual "OSR" systems. So I'm wondering on a scale of 1 (heathen) to 10 (OG) of how OSR my group is, as I run in a very "oldschool" format but not technically OSR?

>>46982268
>I run in a very "oldschool" format
What is it you think this means?

>>46982268
OSR is generally restricted to TSR D&D and clones, though there is the odd Gamma World one floating about.

Speaking of Gamma World, how valuable would /osrg/ say a copy of GW1, still in the plastic wrap from the store, would be worth?

>>46982333
We're not even autosaging yet.

>>46982304
Zero PC plot armor, "roll and shout" over emphasis on ultra-detailed rules, no meta-mechanics or emphasis on "story", speedy play, hex-crawl campaign, reliance on player skill and ingenuity.

>>46982309
Ah, then it sounds like I'm outside of the OSR bracket. Thanks.

>>46982352
Perhaps I should have said 'the playstyle of TSR D&D'. The rules generally hover around B/X, because the OSR community is allergic to crunch, but OSR is really more of a playstyle than a ruleset.

>>46982378
Gotcha. Well, it sounds like more of a spectrum/style than a hard-and-fast codified list, then.

Just wanted to know if I'll be baiting-and-switching anyone if I advertise "OSR-styled gameplay" to a potential new player.

>>46982431
>low rule-detail
>no meta-mechanics
>hex-crawl
>reliance on player skill
Nah, you're fine. Although maybe you should tell them that sort of stuff, instead of 'OSR'.

Remember that 'official OSR content' may cover any or all of Tomb of Horrors, Castle Greyhawk, Dungeonland, Temple of the Frog, Ravenloft (the module), and the whole Dragonlance DL module series.

>>46982481
Got it, thanks! I'll just use those key phrases then, and if I do run Castle Greyhawk then I'll make it explicit that I'm just using the module as "inspiration" or something.

>>46982648
>Castle Greyhawk
WG7 is also a joke module, so make sure they know it's not going to be to serious if you ever run it.

What are some good sources of inspiration for a sort of gritty, sort of funny, vaguely surreal gonzo fantasy setting for a campaign that emphasizes dungeon crawling and wilderness exploration?

>>46983212
The Dungeon Alphabet is invaluable for that stuff. Its in the trove under !GM Tools.

Also, look through ASE (in the Labyrinth Lord folder), World of the Lost and Towers Two (in LotFP folder) and browse through any of the new DCC modules.

Suggestions for running a game where my players can actually have a long-running character & campaign? Its not easy in OSR.

Should I be kind when it comes to dying, or just say fuck it and run 5e? Do you have any 0hp house rules (aside from what was posted above)?

>>46983687
>Do you have any 0hp house rules
There's always the '0 HP = unconscious, -10 = dead, lose 1 HP per round when at 0 or less'.

>>46983687
>Do you have any 0hp house rules
Is use the "bind wounds" house rule. Immediately after combat, once per day, any adventurer can bind the wounds of another PC, restoring 1d4 HP. If the PC has more than 0 HP after his wounds were bound, he lives.

I'm getting a "file no longer accessible" when I try to grab the LeBlanc hex maps from !GM Resources in the trove.

>>46984393
I like that. I was gonna add a medicine skill (1 in 6 + INT mod) to LotFP. On a successful roll you heal 1d4 damage. Should I just skip the skill die?

>>46984541

I'd do both. Any competent adventurer can try to bind wounds for a 1d4, covering the general triage. If that doesn't save the guy (he's still in negatives), then let the specialist attempt surgery to do more drastic treatment. On a success, heal his medical skill in points (maybe doubled so it doesn't seem weak compared to binding). Maybe deal a bit of damage if he fails, to represent the riskiness of primitive surgery, so people won't necessarily want to do bind wounds->surgery for every character after every fight.

I want to run a game of either LL: Advanced or just AD&D 1e for some friends who have never played anything pre-3.5 before. I have, extensively, but not in about 15 years.

1. What do I need to keep in mind?
2. How do I get my players ready for the much harsher play style? Just toss them in headfirst?
3. What classic modules should I take a look at for inspiration, and to kind of get back in that old school mindset?

>>46983435
>Dungeon Alphabet
>A is Also for Adventurers
>A DOZEN UNUSUAL ADVENTURING BANDS
>'D12 roll'
>actual table only goes to ten
Dat editing.

>>46985027
I'd just tell them to expect low levels to be a lot more dangerous. Maybe even tell them to expect at least one PC to get croaked before level 2.

Also remind them that they get more XP for treasure than for killing monsters--so they'll come out ahead using cleverness instead of brute force.

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Microlite 20 Purest Essence, yea or nay? The only issue I have with it at first glace is that the spell list seems too overpowered.

>>46985329
It's the 3E spell-list. What were you expecting?

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Requesting some ideas for how to stop the party from running out of the dungeon every time they're close to dying to rest up and restock. Any number of ideas please, generic or obscure, obvious or bizarre, I don't care.

>>46985819

When they leave the dungeon another party swoops in, takes all the treasure and resets the traps on the way out.

>>46985819
Restock dungeon inhabitants but not treasure?

End the session when they leave the dungeon?

Trap them within the dungeon either literally (with one-way doors, teleporters, moving walls, doors that shut and don't reopen for a day, etc.) or through various other more metaphorical methods (get them lost, for instance, or give them some incentive to stay within the dungeon such as rumors of a magic item or strong monsters blocking the obvious way out.)
Of course, if you do literally shut them in then you should probably have them be able to find some alternate exit. Which, obviously, becomes an alternate entrance for subsequent expeditions.

Another option is, and this probably shouldn't even need to be said, that you just talk to your players about the problem.

>>46985819
Why is this a problem? Your players are being smart about not pushing their luck, that's what you want to see.
You *are* still rolling for random encounters on their way out, aren't you anon?

>>46986077
>>46986027
>>46986020
Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't mean that the players leaving the dungeon is a problem, I just need some ideas for how I can complicate it and make it something more interesting.

>You *are* still rolling for random encounters on their way out, aren't you anon?
I am, but I was thinking that other things happening could be interesting too.

>>46985819
>my party is being careful and I don't want that to work either; how can I go from being a harsh DM to a Kobayashi Maru?

>>46986246
Well, how are you handling mapping? That's an obvious little thing that can horribly complicate any attempts at retracing in a dungeon.

>>46985479
Something not overpowered, presumably.

>>46914760
That game is so cute.

>>46980943
>You think that would be better?
Otherwise they might end up with a character they don't really want to play, and then what? They end up retiring them or purposefully getting them killed anyway.... or they unhappily stick with it.

>>46986495
Not that anon, but being trapped in the dungeon is a pretty great way to ramp up the tension, especially if you are trapped in the dungeon with something big and toothy, a la God That Crawls.

>>46987148
Sure, but if you literally take away every option then at best you're playing Call of Cthulhu, and at worst you're watching a Shakespearean tragedy without the literary value.

Does the Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion require the Core Rules as well? If so, is there any 1e AD&D clone that doesn't require more than one book?

I'd really like to buy a physical version of a retroclone and have my players be able to buy it too, without breaking any of our banks.

>>46987255
OSCRIC IS BEST GIRL

>>46914760
...What is that? :Rage:

>>46987753
Looks like an English translation of some Japanese game.

>rage
Why?

>>46987776
>Looks like an English translation of some Japanese game.
Maybe? I haven't got a clue.

>Why?
That particular style of cover, that is the style of the painting, I guess is simply too different for me. Sorry.

>>46987814
Fortunately, the existence of something doesn't obligate you to play it. Thank God, or else FATAL would be a way worse problem than it is.

>>46986495
You're misunderstanding me. I want to do this because I want the players to have more fun. I wasn't even aware that it was boring to the players until they confessed to me that they don't like doing it but one player always insists.

>>46986565
You mean like making it labyrinthine, or having it change around and such?

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>>46908893
This looks interesting for OSR space games.

>>46982268
basically if it's derived from a TSR edition of D&D it's OSR, however there are some systems considered OSR despite not being derived from them either from fitting thematically(Mazes & Minotaurs, and DCC are two examples), or having a connection to TSR D&D in some manner(Gamma World, Metamorphosis Alpha, Boot Hill, and Empire of The Petal Throne are examples of this)

Running OSRIC with modules A1-A4 for friends who've never played an old school game before.

Good idea? Bad idea?

NEW THREAD:
>>46990833
NEW THREAD:
>>46990833
NEW THREAD:
>>46990833