Pathfinder General - /pfg/

I want to marry Tome of Battle!

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>>46886169
I bet Warblades are fantastic husbandos.

I want to wed Greta and help her retrain her Fighter levels as Zweihander Sentinel Warder ones.

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Reposting:

Something has been bugging me for a long while, /pfg. I want to make a strong non-magical fighter - I am already pretty happy with the Psy Warrior, Ranger, Paladin etc for somewhat magical ones, but I want a mundane fighter that can be a serious asset to the party until level 15 or so without anything fancy. Path of War is nice and all, but I want a muggle that can take the pain and bring it back. What would it take to achieve that?

Here is my assessment on fighters' negatives:
almost nothing to do outside of a fight
limited scaling – weak later on
large issues in defense (weak saves)
limited tactics because of limited mundane feats
no innate scaling of needed features (reliant on equipment
Some weak features (bravery, armor training to a point)

Strengths:
flexibility in access to feat chains /VMC use (plenty of feats)
Versatile combat bonuses that apply in many situations and do not require triggering

Overall, I think they hold up somehow until the early mid levels, but can't catch up later on - so they need some fun stuff early and a lot of punch and tricks later.

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>>46886135

Pathfinder is not the game you should play for that.

You are trying to play a non magical character in a high magical system.

By level 15, your character has probably benefited from Teleport and Raise Dead spells, and has a set of magical weapons and tools.

The best you can probably do is a Warder or Warlord that never takes the supernatural disciplines (Steel Serpent, Veiled Moon, Solar Wind, etc.)

Repost from closed thread (this is as a houserules idea, I would rather avoid Path of War, psionics or another supernatural system for this)

My idea how to do this:

Suggestions:

use unchained rules for skill groups, +1 for background skills - more skills and stuff to do
use unchained automated bonus progression - can get necessary bonuses by default and use remaining cash for utility/style items
Combat stamina free for all martials

- Bravery - + ½ level to saves vs fear, combat stamina pool
-- count as half (current rate) for features that build off it like armed bravery
-- can spend up to max in stamina points for immediate action bonus on a save
Armor training 2 and 4 get +1 to AC and double that for AC vs critical confirmation each
heavy armor at full speed at level 11
weapon training – gives bonuses to attack, all CMB and CMD stats, and insight ac vs this weapon type, and double the current damage bonus
New features (mid to high level)
- can regain combat stamina through defeating an enemy or a crit
- can use Combat Stamina for temporary HP
- use combat stamina (a lot) to replicate hero point effects
- add to effective level for automatic bonus progression for arms and armor
- Weapon supremacy as a feat or class feature – pick one weapon, double all feature and feat bonuses for it. (level 13+, possibly a feat other martials can pick up at BAB 15+)
- Criticals against an enemy with 2/3 or less their level in HD can kill as coup de grace
- Get the current capstone at level 15 or so
- New capstone lets them reroll one missed attack per round.

How would you rate this in terms of power and likely fun?

>>46886289
Have you looked into Weapon Master's Handbook?

It gives fighters options to beef up their saves (One gives them their weapon training to Reflex saves, and another gives Bravery to all Will saves), and things like Cut/Smash from the air can give them some really nice reactive defenses.

Plus, the ability to substitute their BAB for the number of ranks in certain skills, really expanding their skill selection and making up a little for that 2+int thing.

Plus, Focused Weapon means they can have the same damage dice with a dagger as with a greatsword.

How would you translate fate/stay servants to pf?

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>>46886169
I want to become a Merlucent!

>>46886386

I have seen it, and it has some nice stuff. I presume that stuff and some of the unchained rules are included.

>>46886073

A beguiler beguiler could beguile no amount of beguilers since a beguiler beguiler can't beguile beguilers.

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How would you make this better?

>>46886472
Without changing any of the stats or abilities (even keeping all 19 levels in ranger), change the CR to 14.
Bam, it's suddenly decent and fitting for its CR.

>>46886472
Cheese. Lots of cheese.

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>>46886472
And this

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>>46886325
When you gave fighters Automatic Bonus Progression, they stopped being mundane.

>>46886483
Any reasons?

>>46886073
I'm afraid that >>46886442 is right, hidden signs doesn't work against other beguilers and significantly hampers their ability to beguiler other beguilers.

>>46886535
It's on par stat-wise with the average CR 14 bestiary entry.
Fuck paizo guidelines, statistics is what matters.

WarderX/Student of War2 seems like it could be really good. Is it worth multiclassing for a defensive-focused Warder, or just go full Warder to maximize maneuver progression?

>>46886555
Why can't Paizo be good at most things? What are their people doing?

>>46886614
They're mentally impaired. Please be understanding, anon.

>>46886472
Give him the following GM fiat gimmick abilities:

>breastplate is an alloy of mithral and a magic-resistant metal that gives him SR 40 against all single-target spells aimed at him, which he can drop for any specific spell and then put back up as a free action
>can, as an immediate action, pay one of his Ranger spell slots to block a Conjuration (calling) spell cast that round
>has a second pool of HP equal to his normal HP - while it still exists, he's immune to fear effects, critical hits, negative energy, ability damage/drain, and death effects

>>46886472

High-end items, including a couple of greater slaying arrows (or an even better version that can actually kill you), actually decent weapons (something like the old magebane enchantment or the RotRL runeforged weapons would be nice), a lot of other items to mess with the party, some minions to harass the party and work off the hunter's bond, and it has to catch them by surprise.

>>46886629
Non!

>>46886472
>>46886502
What book is this anyway?

>>46886472
Why not change NPC statlines to fall in with PC gen rules?

>>46886674
The NPC Codex.

>>46886429
ANON, I LIKE THE CUT OF YOUR JIB.
This is a good race and would make an excellent PC. I like it a lot.

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>>46886598
Stick to one class. You'll probably get a maneuver or class feature that makes up for what you would have gotten.

>>46886217
Isn't Greta really wimpy, by Winter Wolf standards?

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>>46886790
Yes

>>46886790
If memory serves, she's less physically strong, but smarter?

>>46886472
Shouldn't rangers also get pass without trace?

Shouldn't he be an urban ranger?

>>46886775
Fair enough, that's what I thought.

Warder seems like a really cool and powerful class so I'm not complaining. Not entirely sure as to what route to go down with regards to items, though - it seems almost like it's better to go sword and board, and pump your shield bonus to high heaven.

>>46886790

Slightly lower STR, slightly higher INT and CHA than normal, if I remember correctly.

But for an intrepid young human, she's big and stronk and a CUUUUUUUTE.

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>>46886598
Honestly, super no. Int to AC sounds nice, but when you're still reliant on your armor's max Dex rating, it's just more hoop jumping to get the benefits out of your class that you want.

Additionally, AC is a shit defense and you're better off not worrying too much about it after the first few levels. Grab some magic items for it and go about your day.

>>46886790
>>46886865
>>46886878
>>46886915
Retraining out of shitty class levels would probably help alleviate that, if only a little.

Additionally, she's still a super qt.

>>46886472
What's that PoW variant for rangers?

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Time for a special edition of Alignment Wars!

Creating an intelligent disease with NG alignment, specifically designed to only infect and destroy a CE race that basically only feeds on innocent children.
Then releasing it upon the world to enact genocide without exception.

Good (aligned) idea, or bad (aligned) idea

>>46886942
>AC is a shit defense and you're better off not worrying too much about it after the first few levels.

Presumably that only applies to enemies that are not martials or enemies that do not make attack rolls, so very few?

What other forms of defence are realistically viable for a Warder to go for?

>>46886993
Personally I would say that this is a bad aligned idea, but can understand that some good people would be in favour of doing this.

>>Every time someone tried to end a war before it even starts, innocent people die.

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>>46887007
Honestly, you don't build a Warder to be defensive. He's defensive on his own. You build a Warder to put motherfuckers in the ground, and he does it beautifully.

You're physically incapable of keeping up with the increasing attack bonuses of enemies as you level, so as long as you've got minimal investment into AC (decent armor, amulet of NA, ring of deflection) you'll probably be able to avoid most iteratives. That's all you can really hope to do. Spending much more than that will take away from what your job is SUPPOSED to be, namely murdering bad guys before they can kill your wards.

>>46887056
To be fair, every time someone tries to end a war once its started innocent people die.

As for the original question, I'd say good aligned, but heavily chaotic since its
>LETS UNLEASH THIS HORRIFIC PLAGUE UPON THE LAND, WHAT COULD GO WRONG!
>:D

Guys, I'm working on making a Sith Lord, (I asked for advice here a few weeks ago), but so far, This Arcane Bloodline isn't serving much purpose. I haven't even bothered picking familiar or bonded item (If i chose an item it'd be my sword)

Keeping in mind that I'm only taking Sorc to level 8, is there anything that might be more fitting for a Party Face Kallid Count-Dooku Wannabe?

I'm considering switching to Infernal.

>>46886217

>Be a brash, heroic warlord
>Marry Greta and constantly show off for her with Gambits and Maneuvers
>One day offer to teach her to be an Initiator
>Wager chores, treats, and sexual favors on the outcomes of sparring matches
>Use daring moves and tactics to catch her off-guard
>Occasionally get caught off-guard when she goes wolf, knocks you down, and sits on you
>Training going well, but every session ends with cuddles and/or lewds

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>>46887150
That's weeb as shit, Anon!

>>46887074
That does seem to be reasonable, but our cleric is level 9 and has an AC of 43 so I'm not sure about being guaranteed to be hit by the full bab attack. That being said, given that Warders have maneuvers they can, as you say, use their base tankiness to compensate for going all out on offense.

>>46887220
>Level 9 with an AC of 43
What?

>>46887220
Yeah, I'm like 90% he's doing something hilariously wrong. 43 AC at level 9 either means he spent all of his money and spells on buffing JUST AC, or he's pulling something.

>>46887150
That is cute and I approve.

>>46887220
>My spider senses are tingling

This is wrong, i dont know in wich way, but must be wrong

>>46887150
>>tfw no cute gf that will be attracted to me

I get reminded of this on every board fuck you

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So I'm trying to build a statblock for Queen Frilogarma for an Andoran-focused campaign, and I'm having trouble deciding on a bloodline for her. I want to avoid a fey bloodline, and options I'm leaning towards right now are shadow (based purely on looks and location), maestro (ties in to the dances of the Candlestone courtiers), and dreamspun (in case I want to lean hard on the ether part of the court of ether, although I'm guessing that might not really be what they mean). Have you got any input, /pfg/?

http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Frilogarma

Is Metaforge any good?

>>46887529
Eh. Going 3 levels so that you can form your weapon and armor at the same time is kind of nice, but it's been pretty much entirely superseded by Awakened Blade, which is just a better PrC all-around.

>>46887242
>>46887274
>>46887375
+5 fullplate, 14AC
+5 heavy shield, 7AC
combat expertise, 2AC
dodge feat, 1AC
shield of faith 3AC
barkskin 3AC
defensively fighting 2AC
dex mod +1AC

total bonus: +33AC,for an overall AC of 43

>>46887571
A level 9 character should never have one +5 item, much less two. The hell is your DM doing?

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>>46887571
>+5 Fullplate and shield at level 9

>>46887571
Is he aware that you can only use combat expertise and fighting defensively when you actually make an attack, and it lasts one round? That it's not just a decision that you can make and then take no penalties by not making any attacks?

>>46887571
>+5 full plate
>+5 heavy shield
>at level 9
Yep, that's some bullshit right there. He's also invested effectively the entirety of his feats into AC, which means he's probably shit at everything else. You ALSO can't fight defensively when you're casting spells, which is why he's fucking there in the first place.

>>46887571
>+5 items
>lvl 9

Well FUCKING wrong confirmed.

>>46887501
Maestro is probably the best call.

If you want some real fun, give her the Suzerian template.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/suzerain-creature-cr-1

And laugh forever.

>>46887619
>>46887645
>>46887661
>>46887684

I may be mistaken, his armour and shield might be both +4 and he could have another spell going. Can't remember exactly, I just remember for sure he had an AC of 43.

>>46887657
I wasn't aware of that and likely neither is he, but he aims to get up in people's faces asap so it hardly matters.

>>46887693
It's a thing to be aware of, since you can't count as always having it active.

And if he's getting up in people's faces with both of those running, he's gonna have a tricky time actually hitting people.

>>46887693
+4 still makes it over 32000 gold, which is way more than a Cleric should ever spend on AC with Level 9 WBL. A Fighter maybe, but even that would be a stretch.

Either way, like other people have been saying, it is not possible to have AC that high at that level while staying good at anything other than soaking up hits. Even then, touch attacks would still ruin him.

>>46887724
Or using any of his spells. He's apparently just walking up to things and attacking them with a 1h weapon, with no feats or money invested in not being shit at that combat style.

Enemies can likely completely ignore him.

>>46887724
I think he primarily uses stuff with touch attacks, like touch of chaos which isn't rendered totally useless by having a low attack bonus.

>>46887771
In all fairness he's been hit in combat once in the last six sessions

>>46887779
He can cast buffs without caring about enemy attacks because they can't hit him

I haven't even listed all of the possibilities for defensive options, I think he has a couple of other spells cast by other party members but they're not always running

Looking for a perk that will let me multiclass, but keep my mount up to my full level. >.<

>>46887833
It doesn't matter if he can't get hit if he can't be a significant threat to enemies. The point of a tank is to keep enemies on him, but if the tank isn't an issue the enemies need to deal with immediately, nothing stops the enemies from going after the people who are threats.

>>46887889
Boon Companion/Horse Master

>>46887686
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/suzerain-creature-cr-1

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

>>46887889


Horse Master, but it requires expert trainer (so 3+ levels of cavalier)

>>46887961
Check out Inviliger as well, its from the same book and is the same thing but with Lies and Bullshit rather than Charms and Diplomancy.

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>Session starts, do a fight, is easy as fuck and we start exploring
>mfw homunculus gets caught in a fireball trap
>mfw barely flops the reflex save
>mfw fireball trap drops her to EXACTLY 0 health, dies because construct and shit HP rolls
>have to book it back to town because the party's worried about me not having my one class feature
>mfw having to introduce the party to my character's mother so he can retrieve the blood he has in storage

I'm really, really glad that the Promethean's homunculus is really cheap to revive.

What makes Bolt Ace Gunslinger so much better than the normal Gunslinger?

>>46888043
Crossbows never explode in your fucking face. They're both pretty shit compared to effectively anybody with a composite longbow.

>>46888043
Crossbows are easier to use/own/maintain, and the features for Deeds all work towards making the crossbow an actually-decent weapon to focus on.

>GM will never allow Merlucent PC's
>GM will never allow Merfolk PC's

Should I just suck it up and play a Gillman?

>>46888077
>>46888084
Okay, I see.
So, what class/archetype should I go for if I wanted to be the best ranged DPR guy in the party, but without any magic (i.e. not Ranger)?

If they got rid of a gunslinger's drawbacks, would that make the class viable?

>>46888102
Play a Deep One Hybrid.
Worship Best OIld One
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Bokrug
And direct him against your foes at high levels.

>>46887918
>>46887989

I am only doing a 5 level dip out of samurai so boon companion works perfectly, thanksies.

>>46888043
Inexplicable Reload + Repeating Crossbow = laughing at the concept of 'reload feats'

>>46888142
Warlord/Hawkguard Warder/Sohei or Zen Archer Monk/etc. Anybody who can fight with a Bow will work. But let me tell you, past level 4 or so, you're going to ALWAYS be covered in magic items, and the concept of a character "without any magic" is out the fucking window.

>>46888150
It's viable already. It's just subpar to archers by a significant margin.

>>46888202
I don't mind magic items, I just want to make sure it's not a caster, like Ranger.

>>46888219
If you consider the Ranger, of all things, to be a caster, then you're not going to have fun in PF. It's HEAVILY slanted towards classes with spellcasting, and the Ranger only barely has enough to even PRETEND to be one.

But if you're super intent on remaining 100% mundane, the Path of War is your only real option, unless you LIKE being a waste of space past a certain point. And even then, you end up using exclusively Tempest Gale, because the other ranged discipline is a Supernatural one.

Question about Warder.

Is the Zweihander Sentinel a better choice than the default class? Using a mithril buckler would be good for some more AC that I would be lacking due to no shield otherwise.

Also, the Cornugon Smash>Hurtful feat line seems really good. Is it worth taking them? For those that don't know, Cornugon Smash lets you demoralise someone with an intimidate check when you hit them with a power attack, and Hurtful lets you use a swift action to make an attack at your full BAB when you demoralise someone.

Presumably I take Advanced Study as many times as I can justify, right?

>>46888158
But anon, I like being Good-aligned.

At what point am I a powergamer?

The other night my local group started giving me shit about my rogue/brawler being OP. I don't get it. A straight two-weapon fighter does more damage each round. A bard has higher skills. I don't have (m)any ranks in UMD...and I can only hit one target a round with a single attack. I'm using Snake Style and Sap Master.

The same group doesn't complain in the sleightest when I play my Oracle/Sorcerer Kitsune Enchanter and take out two enemies a round with extended DC25 Murderous Commands...But doing 11d6+17 nonlethal sneak attack damage on a charge is too OP?

Does Use Magic Device imply that the character has innate magical ability?
I'm building a mage-hating Inquisitor, and I want to make sure I don't fuck up. He'd never ever do anything even remotely arcane, so if UMD implies even a tiny bit of arcanery in the character, please let me know so I don't put ranks in it.

>>46888334
UMD doesn't imply magical ability, it just means you know how to work magic items. That INCLUDES divine items, not just arcane, so you're fine.

>>46888328
Sounds like they're just complaining.

>>46888328
People have a hard time really seeing whats OP or not. 11d6 sounds like a huge amount (and is well above normal damage die), so people will naturally balk at it, but all sorts of other nonsense will fly under their radar.

>>46888295
Well then, be CG.
Bokrug isn't evil as such, read the original The Doom that Came to Sarnath and he only shits up one kingdom because they enacted total genocide on his favored people.
Then had a party in the ruins a thousand years later to celebrate, like cunts.

Basically his entire thing is 'chill, get fed sometimes', amoral in the same way Calistria is.
But much less slutty and much cooler.

It wouldn't be hard to convince your GM to let you basically play an Ib variant I imagine, who becomes CN on rebirth.

>>46888202
I mean actually viable

>>46888286
Yes, ZS is effectively a straight upgrade to the normal Warder. Note, however, that you're going to be taking a constant -1 to hit at all times if you try to wear a buckler with a 2H weapon, and the extra couple AC isn't really worth that.

Cornugon Smash/Hurtful/Shatter Defense is a great combo for the Warder, especially if you pick up Eternal Guardian and/or Black Seraph while you're at it.

>>46888328
Rolling lots of dice makes people lose their goddamn minds. Fuck if I know why.

>>46888286
Firstly, ZS is not necessarily a better choice than the base class. It depends entirely on what you want the character to do.

Secondly, as a ZS, you will be getting a Shield bonus to AC from your weapon anyway, so having a Buckler will serve no purpose other than a drain on your wallet.

Thirdly, Cornugon Smash+Hurtful is a very good combination if you're okay with investing a lot into Intimidate

>>46888370
It IS actually viable. It's just not good. Don't try and conflate the two, because they mean entirely separate things.

Let's say I want to run a Pathfinder game with the "guns everywhere" rules, so the enemies will also mostly be packing firearms. I don't want to render heavy armor obsolete for those who want it, but using the armor as DR rules would render firearms almost entirely worthless. What should I do?

>>46888379
>you're going to be taking a constant -1 to hit at all times if you try to wear a buckler with a 2H weapon, and the extra couple AC isn't really worth that.
I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out.

>Eternal Guardian and/or Black Seraph
Unfortunately ZS doesn't have access to those, I could always take the Martial Training feats though. Still, that would be a drain on the already feat-heavy route I'd like to take.

>>46888405
I'd like to make a damaging character who is too dangerous to ignore like most tanks, but can also have an aspect of survivability and utility.

So, current plan: no buckler, pick up Cornugon Smash and Hurtful, look into Martial Training.

Also, do successive Cornugon Smash intimidates result in the -5 penalty listed on the intimidate skill check page?

>>46888499
>>Go to Golarion
>>get shot
:^)

>>46888499
add armor as temporary hp?

so majora's mask suddenly appears in your campaign, what happens?

Can i have some advice for make a "Fleshwarper" character in pathfinder? i think i can go alchemist or just wizard but im not sure if i can imitate the fleshwarper abilities

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>>46887074
>Asmodean Zweihander Sentinal Warder
Actually that is a Baphomet Glaive Templar of the Ivory Labyrinth.

>>46888530
ZS DOES have access to Unorthodox Training and the various Martial Traditions, however.

>>46888614
Close enough!

>>46888530
>Also, do successive Cornugon Smash intimidates result in the -5 penalty listed on the intimidate skill check page?

The feat doesn't say anything about it, so it's safe to assume the penalty applies.

>>46888614
>Unholy symbol of Asmodeus etched on his armor

>>46887007
Actually, AC is a shit defense BECAUSE it fails against high level enemies that make attack rolls.

Attack bonus scaling outstrips defensive scaling unless you go nuts on AC, and that level of investment leaves you vulnerable to the many, MANY effects that instead call for saves.

>>46888664
Baphomet took it as his own after escaping Asmodeus who had cut it into him

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>>46888664
This is Asmodeus' symbol. Baphomet has similar one with a demon goat head (Satan!) within it, like the one on the templar's armor.

>>46888733
>>46888770
Oh cool; I didn't know that.

>>46888639
>Unorthodox Training
That is interesting. So many options...
>>and the various Martial Traditions
These are subject to DM fuckery or help I guess.

I wonder which disciplines I would give up? There's pros and cons for all, of course. Black Seraph's Glare seems amazing for combining with Hurtful, but other classes have stances like that once which makes your weapon two sizes (!) bigger.

>>46888264
Which works out well enough. Most initiators rarely spec hard for more than a couple of disciplines, so one ranged discipline ought to cut it for the character to be effective.

>>46888370
Viable is 'alright'

Passable.

Good is beyond that.

As-is, gunslingers are viable, just a little janky to get going and inferior to other options. I think if you let them have access to advanced firearms, they edge a good bit closer to good.

With advanced firearms, reloading is a nonissue since Rapid Reload makes them reload as a Free action, and Reliable is a +1 enhancement that reduces misfire by one, negating it for revolvers and rifles.

Yes it's a weapon enhancement 'tax', but it works. You're doing less potential damage than an archer, but you're much more likely to hit with all your attacks. I'm not 100% on the math, but there's a significant advantage there, especially considering that a lot of monsters don't have good touch AC at all.

>>46888499
You could make the Gun Tank's Bullet Deflection ability be a default ability? Or a cheap armor enhancement.

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>>46888831
Yep, Baphomet tried to steal Asmodeus' Ruby Rod (Went as well you might think; Demi-God vs. ACTUAL GOD). Asmodeus carved his brand into Baphomets fucking forhead with his thumbnail and imprisoned him inside an impossible maze prison. Baphomet eventually solved the unsolvable maze (being a minotaur and all) and escaped hell, taking the fucking prison with him and making it his new plane of existence in the Abyss. Fucking top tier demon lord in my opinion.

>>46888905
Don't forget he was trying to steal the rod in the first place to impress his girlfriend, Lamashtu. When he came back with a chunk of Hell instead she let him be a Demon Lord and they even still hook up sometimes for Nexflix and chill.

>>46887501
Make her a wandering heart beguiler like you know you should.

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>>46888905
>Baphomet tried to steal Asmodeus' Ruby Rod

So is there any reason as a Warder to not go Zweihander Sentinel? It looks like a straight upgrade to normal Warder.

>>46889264
If you don't want to use a 2H.

>>46889130
>when she's canonically a Sorc

>>46889287
What would be the purpose of even going sword and shield when two handers are superior, and with Zweihander Sentinel you get all the benefits of a shield without using a shield?

>>46889326
Style. Landsknecht.

Although with Piercing Thunder, a Zwei Sent can go into Landsknecht and dual-wield spears and stack the benefits.

>>46889326
Because you want to TWF with a shield, or you just REALLY like the sword + board style.

Mechanically, ZS is just straight better. But making all of your choices based on how good or bad things are mechanically gets boring after awhile.

>>46889298
Fuck Paizo and their cannon, especially if their fans are doing a better job than they are at producing good material.

>>46888612

There isn't quite as much - Paizo hasn't paid much attention to that concept yet. There is the aberrant/warped sorcerer for extendo limbs and weird anatomy, the vivisectionist or beastmorphs alchemists for mutating your pets and yourself to an amount (and also tumor familiar, that one's cool) the usual transmutation-oriented wizard and arcanist... I think this is it. The drow had some pretty nasty stuff about warping people into things mentioned in Second Darkness, but I am not sure it was even statted how PCs could do that.

As far as I am aware, the AP after Hell's Vengeance is supposed to have a more Call of Cthulhu vibe to it, so there may be something for you coming in the later bit of 2016.

Playing a commoner starting as a level 1 in my first path campaign. I'm going human, and have 10s all around for stats. Any feat or skill suggestions?

>>46889730
Skill focus: craft (any)

Enjoy being the richest commoner that ever lived

>>46889730
What's your character's name? Avery Mann?

>>46889802
I haven't settled on a name yet, but that on is quite funny

>>46889749
I'd say Skill Focus (Profession) personally.

>>46889961
Avery Mann, Hugh Man, Juste Guy...

>>46889628
Thanks, i suppose i can go with that warper bloodline is the most accurate option for now (move your **** Paizo x) )

>>46886502
I want to Grapple chaos arrow as she tries to get me off her with her ineffectual 1d3 melee attacks as she does this I'll tell her what a pretty gnome she is and maybe she should come live with me.

>>46889749
> 2016
> Still think that work

Is it worth getting more than a +19 total bonus to UMD as an arcane caster? Limited wish seems to do the exact same thing and probably costs similar to most mid level scrolls that you'd want to cast.

>>46889730
Commoner has Handle Animal as class skill.

Spend 36gp for a combat trained Yak (maybe a little bit on training harness or whip to boost your handle animal a bit more)

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How are vigilantes? Considering picking up the book for an upcoming campaign.

I've wanted to be Batman in Westeros for a very long time.

The campaign will be fairly intrigue/plot heavy, but my DM also likes to challenge us in combat. Do vigilantes offer utility? Are they decent at combat? Will I be able to POW and ZOK and BIFF when needed?

My group is a druid, a sorcereress, and an alchemist and I don't want to be lagging behind the others.

I'm going to fuck the sorceress and alchemist.

>>46890117
Yes. For staff.

>>46890161
more social rogues, but has a choice of not sneak attack or full BAB so... you can do decent combat

>>46890161
>fuck the sorceress and alchemist.
IRL or in game?

>>46890161
Vigilante are around T3-T4 (depending on archetype). So you will never be able to compete with Druid or Sorcerer.

They are alright utility wise (6+INT and social talent). Combat is alright too but not spectacular.

>>46890161
>How are vigilantes?
It renders the Fighter and Rogue obsolete which can said about almost all other classes, but yeah its pretty good T4, maybe almoost T3 when its social abilities are utilized well.

The best part about it is how easy it is to adapt your fav super hero and create your own. Skinwalker + Wildsoul is a fun concept for example, so you can be SHARKFALCON or SPIDERBAT while MasterChymst+Vigilante is another fun quad identity concept.

>>46890208
Both.

>>46890451
An ambitious goal! But do you seek to accomplish it with the mask on, or off?

>>46890161
Its a Fighter / Rogue Hybrid class, in that they're decent combatants, but they also get access to talents that can make them more social, acrobatic, sneaky or lethal depending on your choices.

Unfortunately, the glaring flaw of Vigilantes is that they're stretched too thin between being party face / skillmonkey / etc. and being the party's attack dog.

>>46890466
One of each, maybe?

>>46890540
>not wearing two masks

>>46890161
People who want to roll Batman should roll a weird LN Antipaladin.

>>46890466
Are we talking in game or IRL?

IRL the sorceress is this slamming half-Ethiopian chick who was into me because I have abs and didn't sperg out when she walked into the FLGS. The druid is a environmental engineering major who was raised in a strict Catholic household who is now embracing her newfound hipsterdom. And my dick.

Both are FWB, Sorc is more relaxed (and slutty) the druid is really attached to me and as much as she tries to hide it jealous of the Sorc on account of I took her v-card.

Anyway, my vigilante fully intends to seduce both women in and out of the mask.

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>>46890715
FUCKING

NORMIEEEEE

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>>46890715
I'll take Things That Didn't Happen for 500, Alex.

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>>46890715

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I actually think Vigilantes should be given the PoW archetype treatment.

Easiest way to do it is via modifying Vigilante Specialization. Instead of choosing avenger or stalker, they could instead choose "punisher" or something and get access to their disciplines.

Sadly I am not that good at homebrewing so I leave this kind of idea to a better man than I.

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>>46890765
>Obsessively into all things /v/ and /tg/
>Gym 5 days a week in the morning
>MT/Judo/BJJ 5 days a week in the evening
>Travels constantly
>Disciple of Roosh
>mfw "normie"

>>46890769
Shhhh. Get in shape, stay on top of your hygiene, and get over the fear of rejection. You'll make it too, bro.

For real though once you get your muscles and your undercut you're pretty much there with most women, the fact that I have a really cool "in" just makes it too easy.

>>46890819
Expanding on this, give them access to Black Seraph, Broken Blade and Steel Serpent.

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Ok, gonna use PoW in next campaign, party is 4 people, 3 or 4 initiators. My idea of NPCs using fightan magic is next:
>Some of the lowly bandits, goblins and other bottom of the CR barrel humanoids may know one trick (maneuver or stance) just to spice things up
>All guards in small-to-middle towns, soldiers and local gang muscle know a trick or two
>Sergeants, capital guards, gangleaders, goblin captains and other big guys have some semblance of fighting style and are built almost like PCs
>Various top of the line elite fighters are built as PCs
Is it OK?

>>46890875
Swap Broken Blade for Veiled Moon.

>>46890819
>>46890875
What would be a Vigilante's initiator stat be?

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>>46890886
Seems like it should be fine, bro.

>>46890715
>Are we talking in game or IRL?

Yeah.

>>46890819
If you feel like waiting for DSP I'm sure they'll do a Vigilante archetype

>>46891001
Like I said I'm fucking both IRL. Sorc regularly, druid wants a relationship.

In game I'm basically going to be playing Batman so, ya know.

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Why is Abby so lewd?

>>46890886
Top of the line elite fighters should be literally cheating and using more than one counter per turn or using maneuvers that don't exist etc.
Really bossfight it up, senpai.

>>46891072
Abby?

>>46890978
Charisma?

>>46891072

She doesn't seem that lewd to me.

>>46891059
Good job brah

>>46890978
Constitution

>>46891059
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

>>46890886

I fucking love doing things like that, anon.

I always make my lowly creatures common class peasants, but soldiers are initiator archetypes and captains/guardsmen are full initiators.

You have no idea how incredible a fight becomes when the party realizes the single Emperor's Guard on the battlefield is a significant force multiplier for the other side, and one they can't remove easily.

>>46891092
>>46891119

That or Intelligence. Most Vigilantes rely on their smarts, and using it to supplant charisma instead.
Its either you get Zoro or you get Batman.
Personally, I think most Vigilantes are smart

>>46891090

Ms. Thrune, if you're nasty.

>>46891174
She's getting railed by a solar on the side

>>46891059
>In game I'm basically going to be playing Batman so, ya know.

You're going to start adopting wayward young boys?

>>46891163
Maybe tie it to avenger/stalker choice?

>quit online PF game a few months back because it was too meme-y and ridiculous
>see on skype they're still playing for the last few months
>sometimes quietly watch/listen while I play other games
>see they're playing today
>join Pathfinder channel on discord voice chat client
>join their game table on the roll20.net
>they're in an inn
>there's a map of the inn with npcs even in rooms nobody else is in
>many rooms have npcs called "Whore" in them laying on beds
>scroll over to the rooms on the left
>npc named Delariah
>in parantheses, it says "15 years Old, 15 Cha"
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH WHAT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF THE PATHFINDER PLAYERBASE AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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>>46891072
She just gets less and less cute.

>>46891223
And start attacking clowns, portly people, muscleheads, psychiatrists and autists

>>46891253
Too old

>>46891276
If that age is on the clock, it's on the cock.

>>46891253
>>46891289
>>46891276
I hate this fucking place.

>>46891253
>stalking an old group

>>46891240
Nah, the PoW Archetype will be a new vigilante specialization. Maybe 3/4 BAB + 3 martial disciplines.

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>>46891148
Fucking LOVE doing that shit.
>Party going to assault one of BBEG's outposts in it's moment of weakness (they drew away a large amount of soldiers by launching an attack that's actually like 3 guys and a bunch of illusions)
>They intend to dash into the fort, slaughter the few guards that are left there, and grab Important Secretary Man That Knows BBEG's Next Move
>It's all working out fine, they cut through a bunch of guards and enter the main courtyard of the outpost
>It's just six guys
>They scoff and charge in
>COUNTER COUNTER COUNTER COUNTER COUNTER AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO
>My fucking face when these bumblefucks's overconfidence allowed them to get completely surrounded by 6 Warders
In the end the party's OD Warder managed to clutch it out without anyone dying thanks to Silver Crane but that was a goddamn fight and a half

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>>46891303
I know your pain.

>>46891312
You could make it an archetype.

Then do like I'm doing with my archetype rewrites, make the archetype replace the choice, rather than taking the archetype BE the choice.

So rather than choosing Stalker or Avenger you choose Chanitiator or Intnitiator. Then you could have two different recovery methods for each, and different default disciplines.

>>46891354
what anime is this, because this gif perfectly sums up my existence

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>>46886993
I mean, this is a bit of a variation on part of the plot of the Metroid series, you know? The Chozo created a intelligent race of (probably TN) predators meant to eradicate a CE parasite race that can copy creatures that it kills.

And that turned out well enough, at least until another race with bad intentions (the Space Pirates) should up and started trying to use the Metroids for their own purposes.

So even though in your situation the disease is NG, not TN, I think the danger of it being "repurposed" is there. Suppose someone convinced the disease to change alignment, what happens? Bad stuff, probably.

Now, that's all talking about stuff that could happen, not necessarily the alignment of the act, but I think the risk of things going wrong there means that the act is pretty irresponsible in a way that probably prevents it from being good-aligned- even with the best of intentions. The Chozo just wanted to save their biosphere, but you could argue that almost the whole Metroid series is about the negative repercussions of their choice to do so.

>>46891353
Damn it stuff like that wants to make me GM a proper PoW pathfinder game sometime, but
>Too busy playing in a bunch of other weekly games that I don't want to leave
>Most of the people who would join a game I run aren't interested in the complexities of pathfinder combat, let alone PoW

>>46891373
Oh yeah I like that idea.

We can try and bully Gareth for a CHA and INT based Vigilante archetype!

>>46891258
This is perfect holy shit

>>46888008
Psst, Anon, your homunculus isn't suppose to roll its HD. It's suppose to just take the average value of its HD and then get a bonus based on its size category (10 for small, 20 for medium, IIRC).

Supposing your party just gained a powerful artifact weapon that happens to be intelligent, and is the same sort of weapon that your character specializes in, would you use it even if your alignment differs from the weapon's and you get one or two negative levels for holding it? In this case, it's a NG character and a CN weapon. The DM seems really disappointed that I'm considering not using it, but aside from my character actually feeling weaker when holding it I think the idea of using an intelligent weapon would go against my character's personal philosophies. The DM has pointed out that the negative levels would go away if my character's alignment changes to CG, but we all acknowledge that my character himself isn't going to want to change alignment (and couldn't "just become CG" overnight even if he wanted to). For reference, my character is a magus, so he loses out on a caster level for each negative level he has too.

>>46891451
The biggest DSP irony is that Gareth himself is a CHAbinger

>Draws on his understanding of angst, rage and suffering to create content
>Operates via charisma

>>46891306
I play other games with them, they're my friends outside of table-top.

/pfg/

How do I make the BIGGEST Aegis possible? Improved Size, Initiator's Soul with Primal Fury for Primal Warrior Stance, Armory of the Conqueror from Veilweaving stuff?

>>46891655
But cha is his dump stat

>>46891289
old enough to pee, old enough for me

>>tfw recently discover PoW book
>>Warder sounds amazing, the martial class I have been looking for all this time
>>the two groups I'm in are drawing their games to a close
>>might not be able to play next year

Tfw may never get to play a Zweihander Sentinel :(

Gonna be playing PFS. I have two choices for what to play.

Either I am going to be a Wayang Bard. I'll have a 3 int mod so I can do all knowledge skills with a +4, and actually have enough skill ranks to do all the important talking skills so I have things covered. That and I'll be stealthy enough and buff well enough to let others in the party to shine more.

The other in a Tengu Cleric. It'll be a caster specalized cleric with a casting archetype, so he'll be very strong. That plus having a god with the strongest domains will push him very far (luck and trickery while being able to cast from darkness, animal, and Evil because of archetype). I won't be very support heavy because I'll channel negative energy and don't have enough charisma to selective channel.

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Alright, you fucking sweet and wonderful individuals, how the fuck did your weekend sessions go?

>>46891253
An accurate representation would be finding your old PC also in one of those rooms, now labeled as a whore.

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>>46891772
>PFS
Sorry, friend. You'll find no advice here, because PFS is awful and we only know enough of it is to stay the fuck away from it.

>>46891774
It's going well. The DM supercharged the enemies to deal with our 3 Initiator/1 Magus party, and it's fun.

Dwarf Angel of Mercy Medic 8, Homebrewed Kobold Warlord 8, Dwarf Zweihander Sentinel Warder 8, Changeling Seige Gunner 1/Eldritch Archer Magus 7. We make things ded.

>>46891785
When I was considering quitting the game, it was partially because my party more or less railroaded me into betraying my home country. Ergo, I told the GM discreetly that my character wanted to attempt to contact a member of the clergy (as he was a Cleric) to work out a deal to betray his party for atonement.

It worked, and he managed to not only safely play out the betrayal, but he was rewarded with a pretty significant position and is now in charge of the church in a city the party was trying to muscle in on.

So as an NPC my character is a lot more significant than he was following the party. They survived the betrayal and figured out it was me (they probably still don't know that my GM actually begged me to go through with it when I was on the fence.) The GM asked me a few months later about how my character would react to having a spy (sent by my old party) brought before me, captured by my men. The spy was tasked with finding me so they could try to kill me.

Given our religion is fire themed, I told the GM, "Burn her to the bone and send her back." He asked, "Any message," and I replied, "That is the message." Haven't heard what's happened since, but I am pretty sure my character is still alive and doing well and not a whore.

>>46891846
>Seige Gunner 1/Eldritch Archer Magus 7
Please tell me he uses a ballista or other huge weapon
If so, how does he offset the to hit penalty?

>>46891846
Ok, then not PFS then, whatever. What character should I play period?

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>>46891774
With maybe 2 more sessions in the semester, the DM threw an adult white dragon and a few ice golems at our party of five level-7s. Luckily the wizard and the alchemist (me) made short work of the golems while our monk and warpriest started casting Fist at the dragon with ranged support from the ranger. Once the golems were taken care of, the wizard enlarged our martial dudes and I ran around administering health potions and healling our big punchers.

The DM is frustrated no one died, though our Monk got close. So the party is now hauling out the dragon's trove and my alchemist is harvesting dragon organs to sell on the black market. I'm sure dragon bile is worth something to an alchemist too.

>>46891931
I think Light Ballistas are only Large.

Has anyone got Book 3 of Hell's Vengeance yet?

>>46891931
>If so, how does he offset the to hit penalty?

There's a feat that lets you ignore size penalties for using siege weapons. So your only drawback with siege weapons is mobility.

>>46891931
He doesn't. He uses a musket. I actually have no idea how his character works and am vaguely sure he's fudging shit in his favor. It's probably not a big deal, because all he's doing is shooting shit.

>>46891945
The Bard sounds like complete garbage, to be honest. The Cleric is a Cleric, and therefore you can't really fuck it up TOO hard.

>>46891945
Dervish defender warder.

What build do y'all recommend for constructing constructs? New campaign coming up soon and an artificer sounds fun to play

>>46891969
Did you know there's specific rules for how much stuff you get from hacking up dragons? And what you can make from them?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dragoncrafting

>>46892044
Dude fuck yeah sending this to my DM now. I asked him if he knew what we could get and he just shrugged and said he'd let us know what we find before the next session

Thanks, anon

>>46892039
Wizard
Get the fabricate spell and blood money, also animate dead
Skull Rippers are very good

>>46891846
>Seige Gunner 1/Eldritch Archer Magus 7

I mad. I very mad. Instead of Siege Gunner, he should have went with Construct Rider Alchemist, used the craft construct rules to attach a cannon on the back of large mount.

My last Construct Rider was a T-Rex. Jaws of steel, Two ballistae attached to the arms. Most of the head was replaced with a cannon. I only had a tiny regret that a T-rex was too stupid and clumsy to fire them accurately so I had to aim them manually instead. Still loads of good fun though.

>>46891931
Ahh, that's it.

He took Siege Gunner not for siege weapons or anything like that, it's because it's the gunslinger archetype that uses Int for its grit instead of Wisdom.

So he has actual grit without having to put points into wisdom, and just use his magus casting stat instead.

>>46892066
holy shit, that's awesome

>>46892066
He said it was just to make the Gunslinger stuff key off Intelligence. Literally nothing to do with seige weapons.

>>46892077
Right.

>>46892066
>Construct Rider was a T-Rex
How? I thought you could only get wolves and not much bigger stuff?

>>46891774
Well, the session started with our party receiving word via Sending that some fairies and giants were causing trouble up in a nearby city, so we teleported over and found that after destroying a bunch of shit the group had started traveling in the direction of the town we just teleported away from. We found and followed their tracks pretty easily, caught up with them, and then spent most of the session in a combat dealing with them. It was particularly rough on my character because the enemy had a high-level ranger with Favored Enemy: Human (my PC being one of the only two humans in the party), but a Heal spell saved him from death and ultimately we cleaned up the encounter with no deaths. After the fight, a magic sword we had recently found suddenly woke up- it was an intelligent weapon that has basically deteriorated from centuries of disuse, both in terms of intelligence and magical powers. See >>46891653 for the run down on that.

Then we Teleported back home and got some rest, but the DM described how the druid had a weird dream where he was attacked by a kraken, only to wake up suddenly and find he was in the middle of an area of Black Tentacles. He escaped, but there was no source for the spells around to see. He came to my character, the party's expert on arcana, spellcraft, and magic in general, but my PC could only confirm what the druid could already guess- Black Tentacles don't "just happen" and someone must have been responsible, but we couldn't find any tracks. The session ended there, and we're going to be finding out a way to investigate what happened. If we can't figure out any cheaper way to fix the problem, I want to just use a Limited Wish spell to view a flashback of the culprit enacting their mojo.

Somewhere along the lines of this session, I suddenly realized that I'm not sure I've been having fun for the last few sessions, which have all been almost entirely combat.

>>46892113
I had to take a level in Druid, so that I am using the druid's animal companion list instead of the alchemists' limited list.

>No session this week because people can't be bothered.

Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to have a group of players that actually put some effort into making the game happen and making it decent.

>>46892066
Siege Gunner is also a good archetype for shotgunners, since Targeted Blast lets you add your damage to people hit by your blasts. Plus, it doesn't have a 'no reducing this thing's cost' clause like for instance, Up Close and Deadly does.

>>46892025
That wasn't even one of the choices.

>>46892000
>The Bard sounds like complete garbage, to be honest. The Cleric is a Cleric, and therefore you can't really fuck it up TOO hard.
What's wrong with the bard?

>>46892143
I'm pretty sure that doesn't work like that.

>>46891774
Just starting up my new campaign. All players are taking different orders and archetypes of ertw's beguiler who are trying to establish their own guild in a big city. They'll have to fend off the hostility of established criminal enterprises, work unr the noses of the guard and eventually insinuate themselves into the city's high society. I'm pretty excited for this one.

>>46892252
Other than that its crippled with regards to the 3e bard (whereas virtually all other classes got stronger in PF), I don't know why.

>>46892124
>Somewhere along the lines of this session, I suddenly realized that I'm not sure I've been having fun for the last few sessions, which have all been almost entirely combat.

Trust me senpai, having no combat and an incompetent DM is far worse

>>46892203
>>tfw we have sessions but the DM just stares at a laptop screen and talks for no more than 5 minutes in 4 hours, when we have no idea how to progress the story

>>46891480
... Wait, really? Well shit. It's a bit late to try to change that unfortunately. Thankfully I was allowed to homebrew a few discoveries to upgrade my homunculus, as long as I screen it through the group first.

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I have a party of five level 3 PCs, two fighters, a psychic, and a hunter. The game is built around hard boss fights. I'm going to throw a scalding minotaur (CR 5) along with like four or five steam mephits (CR 3) at them. Do you think they'll survive, /pfg/?

>>46891846
How's the Medic treating you so far? If you don't mind my asking.

>>46892294
well, if you play a half-orc, you can add the Beast rider feat animal choices to the list. Could even be an elephant.

>>46892302

u foqqin wut m8, pathflounder bard is better than 3.5 bard outside of very specific things like sublime chord

>>46892336
Except the Construct Rider's ability says 'You pick from these, otherwise, like a druid'

The choices are hardcoded into the ability.

>>46892335
I'm enjoying myself, but I find myself wishing I could remove nauseated 3/4th of the party spent 2+ rounds incapable of doing anything thanks to a pair of evil, evil spiders which is very conspicuously missing from Improved Recovering Touch.

Beyond that, I'm having as much fun playing an Initiator as I usually do. I am going to eventually see if a Guided weapon is an option, thanks to having no bonuses to hit, though.

>>46892361
Construct rider's mount specifically acts like a druid's animal companion in "most ways" and then specifies what ways it doesn't. Beast rider also ignores hard coding of creature choices by saying "add these to your list" rather than just straight shifting the choice list.

And even ignoring that, the GM can approve different creature types, which it says right in the ability.

>>46892124
>I suddenly realized that I'm not sure I've been having fun for the last few sessions, which have all been almost entirely combat.

I don't do a lot of combat in my games. By "a lot", I mean that I just can't justify combat happening every session in the narrative. It rarely makes sense, and there are just other things that require screentime, meaning that combat happens when it's necessary which is usually every 2 sessions or so.

Unfortunately, this isn't what players want. Not just my players who I'm 100% aware are not really onboard with my style, but players in general. It's always "Hey are we leveling up yet?" or "Fucking finally, time to kill something!", and it really removes any enthusiasm for DMing because really players can't be bothered to invest much in the NPCs they've been interacting with, because they're too busy glancing at their character sheet and thinking about what power they get at next level.

I just want to roleplay...

>Tfw when your GM threw a rival party of fuckers
>I'm a wild barbarian like conan, brute force, great sword, high damage
> a short gnome with ridiculous pink and flowers style and a fucking staff beat the shit out of me

Scale of values totally destroyed

>>46892463
If you are aware of it, and aware your playstyles don't mesh, let it quietly die. There is no reason to try and force a square peg into a round hole.

Try and find players who DO want to roleplay with you. And probably do it in a system not so combat-focused.

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>>46892515
Ouch.

>>46892066
Lessee, I threw away that old sheet, but I still remember some of the stats.

Elf Siege Mage 3 / Druid 1 / Construct Rider 5
10 / 18 / 12 / 22 / 10 / 10

Craft Construct, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Weapons and Armor
Siege Engineer, Siege Gunner, Master Siege Engineer, Tumor Familiar

Hedge Magician and Spark of Creation Traits to drop the cost of crafting by 10%

I also had a Large Wagon that doubled as an Alchemists' Lab + Workshop + Smithy
Two fully loaded Mortars were installed on the roof of the wagon in case I needed a backup weapon. I also had a backup Mortar that released smoke in case we needed an escape.

I had a crossbow as my personal weapon which my tumor familiar would reload, while I apply a bomb to it, while also mentally controlling and aiming my T-Rex's cannons.

As for reloading all the siege weapons - I crafted 4 medium sized minion bots. They were all 4 HD construct clockwork servants that are easily replaceable and serves as loading crew, maintenance workers, crafting aides, scouts and delivery men.

>>46892294
>A construct rider assembles a construct mount shaped like a riding animal. A Medium alchemist can select a camel or a horse. A Small alchemist can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he's at least 4th level.
>The GM may approve other animals as mounts.
My said DM allowed me to have any animal companion under the condition to waste a level in Druid if I wanted the Druid's animal companion list.

>>46892539
>Try and find players who DO want to roleplay with you.
I don't think such people exist, and even if they did there's literally no way to actually somehow get those random people in a group together unless they all happen to be looking in the right place at the right time when I try and recruit them, which won't happen. And I'd have to go through the process of screening and vetting other people to learn that they're not the players I'm looking for, which takes more time than is feasible to spend.

>And probably do it in a system not so combat-focused.
Combining a smaller player base with less palatable players doesn't make those systems attractive options.

>>46892463
I don't have any real complaints about having combat pop up every session. That's always how my group has been, and that's okay with me. It's just that over the last year or so our sessions have been getting shorter and shorter, as we've begun starting the session later and ending the session earlier. Now our sessions seem to be just long enough to do one combat and then be either over or almost over.

I'm the sort of player that wants a mix of both role play elements and combat in my Pathfinder games, and it just feels like lately there's been less and less role playing happening in my group. I'm probably also making the session sound worse than it is though, like with this last session there was a little bit of role playing in the end... sort of. It wasn't much role playing, but it was some.

>>46892572
>I also had a Large Wagon that doubled as an Alchemists' Lab + Workshop + Smithy

>Two fully loaded Mortars were installed on the roof of the wagon in case I needed a backup weapon. I also had a backup Mortar that released smoke in case we needed an escape.

>As for reloading all the siege weapons - I crafted 4 medium sized minion bots. They were all 4 HD construct clockwork servants that are easily replaceable and serves as loading crew, maintenance workers, crafting aides, scouts and delivery men.

Christ anon, you pretty much planned all this shit somehow. I actually like the Tank-Wagon-Party Van thing.

>>46892356

I mean, the most obvious crippling is that of the spells: the D&D bard gets one USE/encounter of bardic music per level per day, the PF bard gets one ROUND.

This is quite aside from that 3e chars can add to their morale bonuses, double them, turn them into boatloads of d6s, etc.

PF bards just seem plain worse.

>>46892588
Sounds like you're SoL, then. Trying to play PF and then complaining that people want to be fighting shit is like trying to play League of Legends and complaining that it's PvP. That's kind of what the game is designed to do. The RP stuff is all just handwoven on top if it.

Like, I'm not saying you can't RP in PF, but if you ONLY want to RP, PF is so not the game for it. I doubt your players are particularly having fun, and you aren't either. End the game and peaceably go your separate ways.

>>46892677
>but if you ONLY want to RP

You're not literate.

>>46892710
Sure, you can claim that. I think
>I just want to roleplay...
stands for itself, though.

>>46892662
>"the D&D bard gets one USE/encounter of bardic music per level per day, the PF bard gets one ROUND."

You wanna try rewording that mess of a sentence, because that's a fucking mess. And I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

One use per encounter per day and then one round per encounter per day? What?

Why do people keep trying to run games with a huge number of players (like 8-12 or even higher) with the idea that "not everyone has to show up every session"? How is it that someone thinks that sounds like a good idea that will actually work for a campaign, even one that's not strongly story-based? It just sounds like a mess in the making to me. Does anyone have experience with a game like that?

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>>46891148
>>46891353
>>46891445

>Party enters the courtyard
>There's just five guys in gleaming white armor, obviously the King's Guard
>Four Zweihander Sentinel Warders and a Warlord

It makes players terrified of NPCs for all the right reasons, especially if you give them Improved Quick Draw, which lets them literally treat their immediate area as Threatened even when the sword ain't drawn.

>>46892632
>I actually like the Tank-Wagon-Party Van thing.

Oh I fucking loved that thing.
I personally built it myself and made it entirely out of Greenwood
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Greenwood

That said, I also paid several thousand gold to permanently enchant the Greenwood Wagon with the Ironwood spell
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ironwood

I installed 2 mortars, 1 ballistae and 1 smoke mortar on the roof.

It also housed a laboratory, a workshop, a smithy and just enough space to house a party of 5.
(The Clockwork Servants served as lookout by stationing themselves on the roof of the wagon)

It was a self-repairing tank that was resistant to fire and as durable as steel but light as any wood.

I think I spent maybe 12.5k gold on that wagon alone.

>>46892777
>Why do people keep trying to run games with a huge number of players (like 8-12 or even higher) with the idea that "not everyone has to show up every session"?

I know this will get me branded a heretic on /tg/ because you're not supposed to criticize how people have fun, but fuck it.

People do this (huge player numbers and/or drop-in episodic sessions) when they don't care about their game. Usually it's because they're first timers, or they're really fucking casual (these new hipster hobbyists mostly) and they can and will never take their shit seriously, so they just want to get together and tell stupid jokes for a few hours and call it gaming.

Yes, it's shit. And yes, they're entitled to do it and have fun. But the reason they do it is because they're what you call "casuals" who don't give a fuck.

>How is it that someone thinks that sounds like a good idea that will actually work for a campaign
Considering people on this board thing "sandbox world campaign" is literally the be all and end all of gaming and everything else is "shit railroading"? It's pretty easy to see how people can think shit ideas are great ideas. Especially when they don't care.

>It just sounds like a mess in the making to me.
It is, if you're concerned with the quality of your gaming experience. If you have ever asked someone "lol y u take this so serious?", then you probably don't.

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>>46891774
I just ran my first session of pathfinder and the player said they liked it but...
There's one player who can actually role play and takes initiative but the rest just sort of don't do anything.
I have to constantly say things like "ok its all you guys you control the scene" and the one guy doesn't want to hog the glory so he waits for someone else to talk creating an awkward silence over the skype call.

How can i get my players to actually you know fucking role play in a role playing game.

>mfw no one makes a sound for 30 seconds

>>46892777
DM here. I run those kind of campaigns.
Their absences are understandable as well.

The entire party was 8 members. Some of them can only play weekends.

The plot is based around serving as a Mercenary Charter aboard a flying ship they named "The Silverwind"

The ones who cannot join the session usually tell me what they'll be doing as downtime aboard the ship.

Hello can a PC character build slaves/puppets/corpses with class lvls who can help him fighting? One friend suggest juju oracle and other master of clones alchemist but im not sure if this works or how

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>>46892891
>BUMPBUMPBUMP.
I have the exact same problem. Somebody please help us.

>>46892846
Wait, so you have a Siege T-Rex pulling an Artillery Wagon?

That is fucking awesome.

>>46892891
>>46892935
>How can i get my players to actually you know fucking role play in a role playing game.

You can't.

I'm serious, you can't.

>>46892572
Ah, that's cool then.

It just felt like, from your post, you were implying it was a default thing that should work all the time.

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>>46892953

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>>46892572
>>46892632
>>46892945
>>46892972

I want to make a confession though

Despite all that firepower. 4 Ballistae, 2 cannons, 4 mortars and a rocket propelled crossbow.

I STILL CANNOT beat the Eldritch Heritage'd Barbarian in terms of damage output. (Also, because I taught him to stack several sources of strength bonuses together granting him a strength score of +18)

>>46892935
The thing that gets me is these guys gave me pretty detailed back stories so i genuinely thought
"If they put this much effort surely this will translate into the game!" So I got so excited. Then the session starts and I was just like wow ok.

>>46892953
I'm starting to think I should just keep dropping shit players and eventually through trial and error I'll have a good group . Surely this will work right?

>Worst port is one guy barely speaks English and has a shit mike.

>>46893024
Yeah, that's how it goes.

A d6 is all well and good, but it's only 3.5 damage on average.

Your average level 1 twohand Barbarian breaks +10 damage pretty easy, which is around 3d6, and it only goes up from there.

>>46892953

This makes me sad because I love roleplaying in roleplaying games. Too bad we'll probably never meet anon-son.

>>46891774
Was a bit slow, but fun. Had a bad case of spotlight hogging when the party had to swing by the Alchemist's college so my PC could pick some stuff he had stored. I think everyone else still had fun, though, so it's all good. We got a good chunk of cash after selling the stuff we've been looting, so next session should be pretty fun once we get back into the swing of things.

I think the GM enjoyed the interaction between my PC and his mother far too much, though. Especially when she asked him if he was going out with either of the female PCs in the party.
THEY'RE JUST COLLEAGUES MOM, DON'T ASK ME THIS IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTER PLEASE.

>>46893089
>Surely this will work right?
In theory? Yes.

In practice? No.

See, the people who are somewhat decent, the ones you want to keep around, won't actually stick around. Like, if you wanna spend your time interviewing players to put together a great group, the guy you first interview and put on your list will probably just get bored of waiting and leave by the time you actually finish vetting other players.

And if they don't, they sure as hell will fuck off if you keep starting and ending games just to kick shit players, or if their session has a different random person in it every week.

If you don't A.) Have a great group already, or B.) Get extremely lucky when recruiting them, there's no point in bothering.

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>>46892356
What is...
>Dragonfire Inspiration
>Relatedly: Inspirational Boost, Words of Creation, masterwork horn
>Much more versatile spell list
>Snowflake Wardance
>Song of the White Raven
>Relatedly: Undersong + Diamond Mind counters
>Chaos Music
>Doomspeak
>Bonus feats in exchange for the shit performances
>Harmonizing weapons
>Performances that last as long as you decide to continue them, potentially indefinitely with the right skill
>Related: the Subsonics feat means you can use your music so subtly that no one hears it, but still gets the benefit. Do your music all day without anyone noticing.
>Metamagic Song
>Melodic Casting
>Protégé

>>46892762
I think what he meant to say is that bards get one daily use of bardic music per bard level, that lasts as long as they want it to. For level 1 starts, they can take a feat for +3 (and some skill bonuses) or +4 uses per day. For later starts, they will never have to care about tracking it unless they're spamming, say, Doomspeak (standard action give someone -10 to saves, AC, and attacks for one round. Effectively "make target enemy fail their next save").

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>>46893089
>The thing that gets me is these guys gave me pretty detailed back stories so i genuinely thought
"If they put this much effort surely this will translate into the game!" So I got so excited. Then the session starts and I was just like wow ok.

And they aren't even mary-sue character stories either, they have some really excellent, concise stuff. Then it's time to play and everyone forgot to study for the exam or something!

So I gave my GM my back story which includes an enormous extended family. How many is too many?

>>46893180
Alright, he's wrong on PF bards though. 4+Charisma mod at level one, and another two rounds per level.

And it's not like the number of fights you're generally expected to have per-day increases that much throughout levels, not are they expected to last too much longer.

>>46893180
Oh right. Also, bardic music abilities ran off of a single performance, and didn't require you to have different skills or types of perception to be affected by them.

And bards also had better PrC support even outside of Sublime Chord (Virtuoso was decent, War Chanter was silly in games with large groups of minions).

And there were also some useful items, like the vest of +4 level for inspire courage effects.

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So, I think I have a problem.

I just spent six fucking hours building a map for my next campaign. It's going to be an Age of Legends style game where the Gods are all dead. Spellcasting is nonexistent, only spherecasters allowed, and PoW is encouraged. Tier 3 classes all round (hopefully).

It's going to be great if it works. But goddamn I hate photoshop.

Pic fucking related.

Am I the only one that expects players who submit full initiators to include some sort of backstory that explains why the character knows how to use the nobleman discipline, or "very angry brutal guy" discipline or some such?

Like, if I was starting a level 5 campaign, would you think it's completely reasonable if I said, "all initiators have to have spent time in either the army, guard, militant order or nobility to explain their education."

>>46893232
Yeah, that's fair. However, the bardic music rounds tracking thing is mostly just "in Pathfinder, you're forced to track round by round. In 3.5, you had enough to last you as long as you wanted, and then could also spend them on activating useful feats."

PF bards are a pale imitation of 3.5 bards in everything from casting to music to gishing. The only thing they really do better is skills, with Versatile Performer, but the 3.5 bard could just... Have more skills, because they only needed one Perform skill and with a feat, could run all their Perform skills off their highest one.

>>46893265
Looks good to me.

Kudos, Anon. Your effort speaks volumes.

>>46893230

Make like five family non-sibling members and flesh them out.

>>46893197
I talk to the one decent guy and he said that as we get familiar it will get better but idk man i think i just found a group of autists.

>tfw you recruited from gamefinder threads and now have to deal with the autism of fa/tg/uys

>>46893280
Perhaps, but PF Bards are still by no means BAD.

It's like saying PF Clerics are bad now because they lost Divine Metamagic. Along with... everything else they had.

>>46893277
I take DMs who want backstories as a big warning flag. Not all DMs who want backstories are That DM, but most are. Essentially, your backstory is what you do your first few levels, and you can't have a legitimate image of your character's capabilities until you've played them a few sessions.

Don't force it. Let it come natural.

>>46893298
>1 minute a day
>24 rounds+cha modifier is 1 minute.

That's 2.4 minutes with 10 Charisma.

And you can effectively triple it with Lingering Performance.

>>46893330
PF bards are overall underwhelming. They're not BAD, but they're not GOOD.

Personally I think PF clerics are bad because they're super boring. The domains are overall underwhelming small abilities, and the spell list is either "meh" or "well I guess I could break the game."

Say what you will about Divine Metamagic; I have never seen a DMM cleric that wasn't fun in play and mostly balanced. People who used it to gish tended to avoid the parts of the cleric that make it Tier 1, and got a decently versatile facebeater in the process.

Also, cleric went from a wonderful build component for all sorts of characters, including enabling the "intelligent martial skirmisher" playstyle singlehandedly, to being pretty worthless unless single-classing. Kinda sad.

>>46893265
>I just spent six fucking hours building a map for my next campaign.

You wasted a ton of time making the exact same thing everyone on /tg/ has already made, on something your players won't notice or care about.

>>46893280

There is one exception.

The Rubato Initiating Archetype.

Because GodDAMN can that do damage. I have one, and he wrecks face.

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>>46893329
>autism of fa/tg/uys
Good luck to you friend. I hope you and I will cast the right mood out to bring out the best in our players.

>>46893330

>It's like saying PF Clerics are bad now because they lost Divine Metamagic.

Well, no, divine metamagic is just one of their many options, and 99% of the time it was just used for the quality of life metamagic feat, Persistent Spell.

The bard was massively, indisputably downgraded, especially in comparison to his peers. That doesn't compare to a stupidly expensive convenience feat being taken away.

>>46893265
Looks good, man.

Can you tell us a few notable regions? What's with the giant red blob?

>>46893386
You joking? Maps are key, dude. I'm sorry your PCs don't care about the world they're in.

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>>46893386
Yeah, I mean what kind of fucking loser ACTUALLY PUTS EFFORT INTO HIS FUCKING WORLDBUILDING RATHER THAN GANKING SHIT OFF THE INTERNET?

>>46893277
Well, it's reasonable in theory but also extremely restrictive.

Consider Mystics who get all their maneuvers by just sort of rolling with the random forces of their arcane power, or Harbingers who are said to get their power via an understanding of suffering.

Also Gareth has mentioned in IRC how PoW disciplines are thematically distinct from Tome of Battle disciplines:
>There are not ancient scrolls of [the Eternal Guardian discipline] written by salty skeletal champions
>They're individual techniques grouped under broad themes

So there's no such thing as 'the master of Scarlet Throne who came up with all the moves and defined all its existing moves', there are lots of different noble fighting styles that are formed using general teachings of Scarlet Throne.
This is how you explain the fact that most initiators mix-and-match a number of disciplines into their personal style.

>>46893420
Dude, what? World maps are meaningless. They're all the same, nothing about them affects the game in any way.

You would have the exact same effect if you just took a random worldmap off Google Images, no one would know if you made it or not, nor would your players care.

>>46893434
It beggars the imagination to envision a scenario where in most D&D editions, and definitely not PF, where a world map would matter. By the time you're of power to affect gigantic swathes of the world map, you can just teleport.

Overall I don't think DMs who worldbuild are bad, unless they take it too seriously, like the "you must make a large writeup for your Path of War character, because muggles having nice things should be scrutinized with a microscope, while MAGIC is a perfectly normal thing for someone to do."

>>46893391
Yeah, the Rubato is great. It's a fun initiator and super cool for supporting teams of other initiators.

It traded away the core parts of what makes a Bard a Bard though, imo. It's a great Bard-themed initiator, but Bards are as much about the magic as they are about the music, and the Rubato doesn't do any of that.

>>46893434
>Yeah, I mean what kind of fucking loser ACTUALLY PUTS EFFORT INTO HIS FUCKING WORLDBUILDING RATHER THAN GANKING SHIT OFF THE INTERNET?

It's misplaced effort. The world isn't interesting, it's generic. The map doesn't matter, it's generic. Nothing about a randomly generated world map with re-named fantasy trope things or ideas pulled from /tg/ adds anything to the story being told in that world.

Put in all the effort you want. Just don't pretend it adds anything.

>>46893483
You don't need to be able to affect the world to be able to travel around it.

And I'm fairly sure people learn how to walk before they learn how to teleport.

>>46893543
Why does anything matter then? Nihil Novi sub sole, just because something's been done already doesn't mean it doesn't add to a world.

And like hell a map doesn't add to a world, it's actually setting out where things ARE, how could it NOT add to the world?

>>46893442
>>46893543

Seriously, do you have any idea how geography works?

The areas that your civilizations are in are determine by the layout of a the world. Everything is based on geography in this world. Europe won because of high grade irons in the protective mountain ranges, fertile soil and domesticatable animals being common. Plus horses.

If you have a particular civilization, you need to justify it in how the world is laid out.

>>Nothing about a randomly generated world map with re-named fantasy trope things or ideas pulled from /tg/ adds anything to the story being told in that world.

The quality of the landscape, the notable structures and civilizations 100% stem from the map. Maps determine politics, history and current events.

I used to build my worlds by generating the tectonics and layering the determined continents, terrain and civilizations on top of that. It creates a fluid, realistic world and you're a hateful little twat for shitting on someone else's work while scumming off other people's hard work for your own campaigns with 0% thanks or respect.

>>46893655
>and you're a hateful little twat for shitting on someone else's work while scumming off other people's hard work for your own campaigns with 0% thanks or respect.

Awww, did someone get TRIGGERED?

>>46893483
Level 9 NPCs are incredibly rare. Teleporting is about as common as super sonic fighter jets are in our world as a form of travel.

>>46893677
I literally could not care less what someone on the internet does with someone else's work, but someone here worked for hours on that map and all he got was 'hurr why didn't you steal it?'

>>46892572
Your GM was wrong. T-rex doesn't even suit as a mount.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9qqn


But whatever suit his taste, just don't expect everyone in here to say "YOU BUILD IS AWESOME", because you can even make a vanilla rogue awesome with house rule.

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>>46892336
> Elephant
> Not Gorthek

>>46893739
#intpoison

>>46893694
>but someone here worked for hours on that map

Time invested in a project doesn't entitle you to praise or respect

>>46893756
It also doesn't entitle them to "Durr hurr fucking pointless"

>>46893768
Kinda does, if that's the person's opinion.

You're telling me that you think you can post something on the internet, and not have to hear opinions you don't like?

Crystal Frasier? Is that you?

>>46893756
No, quality of the work does, but the complaints weren't 'poor quality' map, they were 'why try'?

>>46893777
1. That map is not quality.

2. Neither I nor you can tell that map from any random shit off Google. Which means neither can the players.

That's it.

>>46893775
Sure, it's their opinion, and it's my opinion that if no one made stuff, they wouldn't have things to steal from.

>>46893775
Oh, people are totally within their rights to be cunts.

But other people are likewise within their rights to call them cunts. Which is what's happening.

>>46893814
But you're not calling someone a cunt. You're literally being triggered and crying to protect some random faggot's internet feelings.

>>46893800
Your mom never put your macaroni picture up on the fridge, huh?

A map is a compliment to the setting, and hell, it may fit well with the story he's trying to tell in that setting.

I've had plenty of campaigns whose settings wouldn't make sense without custom maps.

>>46893826
Actually, I'm the guy who called them a twat.

And they are. Because they're leeching off other's work while hating on those who are creating it, and I don't care how you feel about that.

I'm a first time GM, and my players have been asking me to draft a political map of my world. This thread is making me think that's somehow abnormal.

>>46893585
>>46893655

D&D is inherently a skirmishing level game, PF far moreso. The small locales will always be more relevant.

>Europe won because of high grade irons in the protective mountain ranges, fertile soil and domesticatable animals being common.

Fantasy Europe wins because a wizard found an upside down skyscraper buried in the ground full of treasure.

Virtually nothing relevant to the game has to do with geography, and you could make the most detailed, roleplay intensive, verisimilitudinuous milieu campaign imaginable that is one town, its immediate surroundings, and one dungeon, all fitting into a single 30 mile hex that is vanishingly small upon the world map.

Almost fucking everything uses more space than it needs to. This is rather like how Star Wars (first six movies anyway) or Starcraft could probably get away with just cramming all its planets into one solar system and dropping FTL, just relying on how fuckhuge the distances between them are.

>>46893683
>Level 9 NPCs are incredibly rare.

I know level 5 NPCs aren't, that's literally WW1 soldier tier.

>Teleporting is about as common as super sonic fighter jets are in our world as a form of travel.

Talking about PCs. And your master plan of making humanoids shit tier in a campaign setting doesn't help anyone, it just makes all your wasted effort on societies and civilizations even more irrelevant since they outgrow it even faster.

>>46893826
I dunno about the other guy, but I AM calling someone a cunt, because deriding someone's effort saying 'it won't matter, your players won't care' while knowing nothing else relevant about the game to be run or the players themselves is being a cunt.

>>46893919
You could do that, but then every relevant space in the world is used, whereas Star Wars having FTL travel allows much more freedom for future stories. Plus I don't think Coruscant could exist soley off the output of one solar system.

>>46893889
It's literally not.

I've never been in a game to use anything but a custom map. Aside from a megadungeon.

If you're doing a political game especially, having a custom world map is 100% key. Borders and civilizations, historical confrontations and provinces are all absolutely factors that should be laid out, and they have to be based in the geography.

>>46893919
The events and small locales are ultimately the results of larger events, which are determined by geography.

Where did that tower come from? Who had the resources to fill it with treasure? Was it locally won by the ruler? Or imported through wars and piracy?

>>46893953
Sure, 1-5 is reasonably common. I don't know any teleporting level 5 anythings. The vast majority level 5s are soldiers, aka vanilla fighters.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about with 'humanoids being shit tier'. Like 0 clue. I've had plenty of characters being devoted wholly to religions, nations, societies or civilizations, and that determines they're choices. Because they're people in that world.

>>46893919
Yeah, sure. But we're not talking about space travel.

On a planet, you can reasonably be able to get most places within a year's time, even within our permanent fantasy Europe (minus magic)

>>46893973
>You could do that, but then every relevant space in the world is used,

I really don't see how. You've only seen, what, four habitations on Tattooine (oh wait Jakku is a different planet, not a city on Tattooine, make that two), a portion on Hoth that could just as well be the ice cap of another planet, etc. etc.

I realize a lot of it is about supposedly leaving room for future exploration, but you're going to be GOD DAMN STRAPPED trying to thoroughly explore and detail just one town and one megadungeon.

Its just not going to serve much of a purpose at all. This is compounded by the people who think despite level 5 being as common as pennies, level 9s are rare, enchanted snowflakes, resulting in the vast majority of humanoids being completely irrelevant, helpless before monsters, and largely not worth anyone's time.

>>46893919
>I cannot into setting

>>46894102
Essentially, what you're suggesting is that Star Wars would still be Star Wars if it was Firefly.

And you could probably recreate a lot of it, it's true. But you would be hard pressed to have one or two 'isolated' areas anymore. It would be:
Hey Triton is a good Hoth clone, but wait we've already used Nereid as the Ord Grovner Naval Base, because we're running out of space and that completely changes how recon and the response to Hoth would go.

>>46894019
Yeah, it is a fairly political game. The players are about to find out whether or not there is about to be a war between the country they've been adventuring in and the Cleric's homeland.

>>46894102
>>46893919
My problem is this:

I care about decent stories. I know most players and DMs don't, but I do. So when I see your "super cool unique homebrew world" map, filled with these landmarks you hand-created and wrote fluff for and shit, you know what I see? I see that fucking Hell's Vengeance map with all the major landmarks painted on specifically so that no matter whether you've read the campaign or not, you already know exactly where you're gonna go and what you're gonna do when you see it.

Because your homebrew world tells me "Hey, I NEED my players to be interested in all these awesome amazing landmarks I made with their own lore and special stuff! And if they don't choose to go there on their own? Well, the campaign is gonna be a world tour so they see all of them anyway! Because I put time into making it!"

>>46894019
The whole axiomatic assumption that humanoids have to be the absolute bottom of the bucket just leaves me baffled as to why its worth time to investigate them. Why is a race at the bottom of the evolutionary chain, easily sneezed into oblivion by the first giant or dragon to show up, worth reams of text and a million times the geography of the actually relevant creatures? As the players get done with the first 1/4th of the game, by the whole "level 5 common, level 9 zomg rare demigods" paradox, suddenly worthwhile foes and rivals that aren't monsters fall off into oblivion.

>I've had plenty of characters being devoted wholly to religions, nations, societies or civilizations, and that determines they're choices.

You can have religions, nations, societies, and civilizations of things besides the pathetic worms under our feet if you prefer. The singleminded fixation on humanoids being worthless just, ironically, results in humanoids being an even less relevant part of the campaign; if the party are just about the only peoples-types who teleport or can survive low-mid tier monsters, then there's even fewer people for the PCs to interact with, meaning there's even less reason to waste your time on it.

I never got the deal with making PCs special by making NPCs incompetent wretches. Does this make people feel good about their characters, or what?

So how am I supposed to get across, RP-wise and combat-wise, that my character is only adventuring because he doesn't know what else to do with his life?

So far I was thinking:
>No battle cry, no cheering
>Almost seems afraid when asked to use out-of-combat skills
>Doesn't give his name
>Often spends downtime staring into the distance aimlessly rather than enjoying anything
>Pulls his weight in combat, but doesn't give any indication of enjoying it - no taunts or banter
>Doesn't even keep a diary
>Always looks tired and confused