Warhammer 40k general.

>>46830350
>They better make gork/morkanughts superheavy walkers edition.
Hope is the first step on the road of disappointment.

Orks need deepstrike, like a rok that does large blast or small body depending on how many units are inside but makes you roll for wounds on everyone if landing on a enemy unit

Orks just need more rules for looted vehicles.

>>46830513
>done
>20 models capacity
>roll 2d6 automatic wounds when the rock lands
>if landing on dangerous terrain then roll 4d6 automatic wounds

>>46830553
>free
>average rolls will kill a quarter of the boys inside
I like it.

>>46830553
Sounds good but would you get saves from it?
I could only imagine the butt hurt people would get from dropping 20 meganobz on top of em

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>>46830513

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>Argued for like 15 straight minutes with my friend today
>He says highlights look bad and fake
>That's why he only washes and drybrushes

>>46830513
>>46830545
Orks need more support on playing hordes. I mean GW knows this with Mob rule, weidboyz getting more charges near big mobs, Ghazcurion giving HoW on 10+ strong units, but they are too afraid to pull the trigger.
Also it should be large units on the transportation capacity basis, meaning bulky models should count as 2 models etc.

>inb4 assravaged ork players misinterpreting my post and whole thread devolving into shitposting

>>46830513
It's a shame immobile units can't deep strike onto the board anymore. You could have just packed 20 boys into a bastion, kept it in reserves and then dropped it onto the board.

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>>46830645
>He says highlights look bad and fake
Niggah wat
I can understand super tick and ultra bright highlights, but how can raised detail and ''popping out'' look bad ?

You must administer the Emperors Mercy upon him

>>46830665
Orks mobs should get FNP based on unit size with the boys trying to outdo one another in being ded 'ard.

+1 per 10 wounds of models.

>>46830727
How would painboyz factor into this?

>>46830727
>Green tide would be unstoppable
I love it

>>46830745
Being limited in numbers the more elite units would nab them to offset their low wound numbers.
But if you DID allocate one, that'd be a real 'ard mob, whether he actually helped, or the boys were just even MORE motivated not the let anyone know they got hurt.

>>46830665
>but they are too afraid to pull the trigger.

I say go balls deep on this.

>More Boyz for da WAAAAAGH! Additional models in any Ork unit are free. Wargear options for models must still be paid for.

Mob Rule now works off number of wounds in a unit. Any Ork model designated as a Character counts as double their wounds for the purposes of Mob Rule.

>>46830745

+2 to FNP, or 5+ FNP if unit has none.

>>46830754

Green Tide doesn't exist anymore Anon. My poor boyz have been locked in the display case ever since.

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>>46830754
>>Green tide
The what now?

>>46830760
Wait what?
When did they get rid of it?

>>46830772
100 Boyz 1 warboss and a whole lotta rape

>>46830772
The Dakkajet formation is worth it

Ive been shooting valkyries and stormravens out of the air left and right

>>46830816
In the book shown, updated Waagh Ghazghkull.

>>46830819
Only fliers in my meta are FMC's so the bonus is worthless.

Should apply Monster Hunters vs FMC too.

>>46830830
Yeah, but that would imply they put more than 5 minutes of thought into the entire fucking update

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>>46830837
Only worthwhile part of it was the Mugshots of Badrukks gang.

>>46830618
>I could only imagine the butt hurt people would get from dropping 20 meganobz on top of em
Probably only marine players who would bitch, and they can go fuck themselves with their codex.

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>>46830350
>better make them Gargantuan Creatures

Ftfy* Why would you want to use a ruleset that makes you take extra dmg and penalties ontop of wounds when you could get saves instead?

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>>46830645
Idk. I see where hes coming from. I barely use highlights, and when i do, i use them sparingly. I think they can make the model look a little cartoony. I like them to look more realistic and gritty, like the way forgeworld does it. When i read masterclass 1 as a kid i fell in love with how they did that chaos tank.

Pic related

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>>46830822
What... No.. GW YOU CUNTS

>>46830865
>implying that marine players are the only cancer of the community.
>implying eldar, tau, and CSM wouldn't bitch for the sake of bitching

Welcome newfriend!

>>46830869
Because being unhappy with the current ruleset does not excuse promoting the shit that is poorly typed GC's.

Hey /tg/ I got two questions that I can't seem to find answers for.

First is can a model choose to swing with its fists/unarmed instead of a weapon that it is is carrying in melee or is it only able to swing with those weapons?
Specifically a D-thirster choosing to not swing with the D-Axe and instead just go with its base Smash attacks when appropriate.

Second is in 7th Edition BRB there is a clause under the Psychic Focus section that says that Marked Chaos Sorcerers automatically know the Primaris Power of that specific God while the Mark of Chaos in the CSM Codex requires them to have at least one power from that God's Discipline.
So the question is does that automatic Primaris Power count towards the requirement for the Mark?
And so they can choose to channel all powers from a BRB table and thus gain the Primaris from that table as well?

I can't seem to find it in the FAQ and honestly wasn't expecting to find it in there anyway.

>>46830851
Those first showed up in the Sanctus Reach books anyway.

>>46830837
>>46830878
What the fuck did you expect?
The 7th Edition Ork Codex showed that GW can't even do a simple copy-paste job correctly.

The most insulting part about it is that it was a co-release with the Farsight Enclaves Supplement reprint that allows them to treat any detachment as Enclaves and share relics.
Not to mention OSC being a thing that GW decided was fair but Green Tide wasn't.

>>46830884
Literally never heard an Eldar or a Tau player bitch about something being OP. They might conplain about some people being tryhard, no-fun, cheesemongers, but never "this is overpowered"

>>46830913
>Farsight Enclaves
Farsight enclaves lost the ability to field the 8 seperately, and has a signature system that aids Riptides, but cannot be taken by Riptides.

Farsight Enclaves wasn't really a good copy pasta either.

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>>46830962
>Literally never heard an Eldar or a Tau player bitch about something being OP.

>>46830983
>Farsight Enclaves wasn't really a good copy pasta either.
It was however copy paste OF good content.

>>46830962
Nice story friendo. Only SpaceMarine players and bellow complaign about "op" stuff.

>>46830984
That is conpletely irrelevant to any kind of warhammer 40k discussion.

EVERYONE would bitch if you showed up to a game, and placed a model on the table, and them telling the opponent "I am bringing this for free with no downsides at all :^)", because only faggots not worth playing against do that kind of shit.

At least free transports and war concocation requires a very specific set of units that costs a fuckton of points by itself.

>>46830983

Oh yeah you're right.
Jesus fucking Christ.
I hope the rumors that Rountree is trying to shape the company's competency up are true because this is getting ridiculous.

>>46830865
>but they have one more wound than my terminators waaaahhh
I can already hear it now

>>46830990
>bellow
Literally who?

And if you meant "below" then Tau falls squarely into that category too. Marines are clearly more powerful than Tau, as pretty much any tournament result will show you.

The only army that gives Marines a run for their money are Eldar, and Marines still have a fair chance of winning, unlike almost every other army.

>>46830892
Models have to use their close combat weapons if they have them. So unless Dhirster has some other typo of weapons (you can give him them via Rewards) he has to punch with his D-slapper.

And sadly, no. Marked Sorcerers have to roll 1 spell from their god's psychic table. There is a reason why people generally dont mark their Sorcerers and the reason is this.

>>46830892
The D-thirster is a common point of contention, since the wording of his axe reads that he swings at I1 regardless of whether he used it. You have o choose a weapon to swing with normally, so this only comes up if you buy him a reward axe.

The wording of CSM psykers means that you have to generate one of your powers from their Discipline, so the primaris doesn't count. Never mark Sorcerers.

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>>46830913
>What the fuck did you expect?
Not to get shat on from a great height because we already have one of the worst codexs.orks, csm and dark eldar we can only watch on as space marines and tau get all shiny new shit and amazing formations

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>>46831013
>>46831051
Wraith knights
Wraith guard
Jetbikes
Ta'unar
Riptides
Tidewalls
Rearhitting hidden meltas
Infinite drone spawning
Markerlights
Hover-vehicles

If you are having a hard time with Tau, you are doing something wrong. Eldar is at the very top of the board followed by tau/space marines, then admech and necrons go somewhere in there.

Just because you got booty blasted by a SM player, doesn't mean that the SM are the unbeatable powerhouse that only eldar can beat.

>>46831095
>dark eldar
M8, you picked an army whose armywide rule is literally "power from pain". If you don't like pain, you picked the wrong faction.

Of course, we did get a buff to the disintegrator gun. I sure as fuck know I will use that new statline against anyone bringing their anniversary faggot.

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>>46831051
Being this retarded. Let me guess, there is also some magical dark eldar player who wins every torney in florida? Jesus Christ.

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>>46831095
He doesn't care whos blood is spilled, only that it is spilled.

Just means we have to take one for the team for a while.

>>46831137
Try to refute points instead of just jumping straight to insults and hyperboles.

>>46831118
>Just because you got booty blasted by a SM player, doesn't mean that the SM are the unbeatable powerhouse that only eldar can beat.
I play inquisition, and I have just given up trying to win against Eldar and Marines. I have a fair chance against Tau. Hell, Necrons are more difficult to deal with than Tau, especially with their Gauss and decurion, since I run a few land raiders.

Anyone putting marines on the same level of Tau are delusional. Why can't you people just admit that your army is exceedingly powerful?

>>46831051
Bellow means yell, fucktard.

>>46831129
Not a dark eldar player my mate is
I'm just saying its too blatant that gw loves the poster boys too much, rather than make them from good to great how about focusing on the less updated races, just look out our ork formations and the unit costs and the amount we have to work with and then look back to the space marines

>>46831177
So..
>"Only SpaceMarine players and yell complaign about "op" stuff."

Yeah, makes way more sense

>>46831013
This

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Where's the anon doing the CSM 'dex? Explain this shit to me

>>46831190
Now, instead of being a dipshit, use your thinker. Anon failed, but you can still interpret it. I'll give you a hint. Transpose the "and" and the "yell."

Only SpaceMarine players yell and complain about OP stuff.

He's saying that Marinefags are bitches who bitch a lot.

>>46831190
I am sure he meant "complaints".

>>46831278
With the way he mangled complain is coudl as easily be.

"Only SpaceMarine players and below complain about OP stuff."

>>46830645
There's a reason that military modellers and forgeworld only do very limited highlights.

>>46830983
The Sig system you're referring to can be taken on the one riptide that actually has an earth caste pilot and it can be taken on suits.

Cry more.

>>46831307
They are display pieces that'll always be seen in ideal lighting and don't need to be distinctive at gaming distance?

Looking into colour schemes for my Knights.

Now, one of them is going to be Khorne, so that's easy.

But I want the arm weapons to be interchangeable freely between the two, and the other is loyalist.

I'm thinking therefore some kind of red scheme is preferable, and I'm of the general opinion that large areas of white on a model tend to look crap. Any suggestions?

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Lol chaoslets.

(And no, I haven't adjusted this, those are the sizes GW drew them.)

>>46831556
Isnt that right one actually really really really old plague marine models?

Oh you GW, its nice that you finally found your lost sense of humour.

>>46831556
Is there a point to this?

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>>46831545
Mechanicus knight scheme maybe ? ? similar enough schemes as long as you don't put big recognizable insignias on the weapons

>>46831573
It inspires guardsmen.
https://regimental-standard.com/

>>46831578

Huh, I like how straightforward that is, with less of the ostentatious random patches of colour.

>>46831594
Are you one?
Do you expect them to post here?

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>>46831608
I am guardsman
You are guardsman.
Computer is guardsmen.
Planet is guardsmen.

>>46831168
Marine players like to think themselves the underdogs in every situation. They will complain about tau and Eldar till the sun goes down, but won't hear complaints from every codex below them about marines being OP.

>>46831652
Marinefags should just play 30k, there they can field plasma platoons and enjoy piles of oiled up marine on marines action.

>>46831329
And you cant take said riptide without taking the full 8 at 1600 points.

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Are there any .pdfs of the Angel's of Death supplement floating around? It's not on the mega.

>>46831545
Maybe a red and silver scheme, with some white.

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Please help, I have to go up against 750 points of Khorne Daemon Kin, with as many points of Halequins, I've never even played regular eldar how do I play them!

>>46831918
As always, IF there's a new book pdf out it WILL be pasted up and down /tg/ both in generals and three separate begging threads.

>>46831938
be fast

>>46831938
Don't let him charge you. He'll have fuckall for shooting, so the formation that's just three Characters running solo should do well.

>>46831965
>>46831949
Just downloaded the pdf as well, what if we need to take and hold objectives, how do we counter, flesh hounds/bloodletter tarpit

>>46831688
+1

Make marines an elite choice in a few of the imperium armies and call it a day. Would fit the fluff better.

>>46831975
You don't.

Harlequins are allies/assasin types.

Hordes break them.

>>46831988
Except for the fluff where they operate independently.

>>46831989
ok is there any way to get around that? I always hear about jet bikes ruining eveyrones fun

>>46832034
Yeah.
Get REAL eldar allies on jetbikes.

>>46832034
Sure, play CWE and accept your Harlequins are just hood ornaments on the Lexus that is Craftworld Eldar.

>>46831975
You need massed, cheap S4/5 shooting attacks or flame throwers to break them before they get in range.

Does your codex have any of those?

>>46832034
>>46832042
>>46832054
Don't listen to these guys, use dark eldar allies!
They are way cooler.

>>46832078
And useless for the purpose of horde suppression.

>>46832087
Are you fucking kidding me? The army with a basic transport that shit out 12 poisoned shots is useless at horde suppression?

>>46832132
To be exact, it's not the transport that shoots, it's the troops, it just offers the twl for 70 points.

>>46830871
>>46830871
hawt paint, anon.

>>46830892
smash attacks use their own profile. doing a single attack is useful for trying not to kill your opponent in assault ON YOUR TURN, so you can murder them on opponent's turn and avoid getting shot at.

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New player trying to understand the Librarius Conclave, if all of the Librarians are in the same unit then only the nominated one can get off any powers, right?
It says the other Librarians cannot manifest psyker powers until after this phase, but as far as I know you can't manifest psychic powers after the psyker phase. Does this represent the channeling or whatever then? Can the nominated librarian still only cast a number of powers based on its mastery level? If I am not really dedicated to getting one power off would it be alright to kind of scatter them around my army and if they ever happen to be near to each other then I can use the bonus?

Give me possibly interesting ideas.
>Vostroyan regiment based on country music?
Might be fun?

>>46831063
>The D-thirster is a common point of contention, since the wording of his axe reads that he swings at I1 regardless of whether he used it.
But the same wording is used for foor the king of blades in the same book, that would mean the bearer always hits on 2+ in a challenge regardless of what weapon he uses.

>>46832370
>if all of the Librarians are in the same unit then only the nominated one can get off any powers, right?
Correct
>but as far as I know you can't manifest psychic powers after the psyker phase.
Correct
>Can the nominated librarian still only cast a Number of powers based on its mastery level?
He can cast as many spells as he has warp charge dice to try and cast them. There is no hard limit so could try to manifest all the powers he has in a single turn.
>Can the nominated librarian still only cast a number of powers based on its mastery level?
Some people use it just to take more librarians because that's their thing but there is no downside to grouping them. The bonus is pure cheese and generally hated for being overpowered though.

>>46832430
>He can cast as many spells as he has warp charge dice to try and cast them. There is no hard limit so could try to manifest all the powers he has in a single turn

Oh the limit is just on the spell he can roll for at the start then? That makes sense I suppose.

>Some people use it just to take more librarians because that's their thing but there is no downside to grouping them. The bonus is pure cheese and generally hated for being overpowered though.

I heard it can be very strong (especially if you are seeking over powered powers) but I just got my second and third drop pod and will soon have my first and second unit of Sternguard along with my command squad so I was thinking I could put a librarian in each drop pod.

They will probably roll on Pyromancy since I am playing Salamanders.

I hope I never need another drop pod again, 3 is enough for me I think.

GW manager's running a narratively driven campaign in store. We get to pick a warlord trait but it's permanent for the campaign, except I have Creed so I get to choose two. What's the cheesiest/most powerful I could choose? The ability to make my soldiers just not need morale checks with 12" and command range increased by 18" is pretty tempting.

Point count is slowly going to go up as the game escalates, this is my build for 750 (the starting point). My first ever campaign or competitive match so any critique would be helpful. I've got a Baneblade I've ordered that will be coming in soon that I want to incorporate when it rises (got it because it looked cool to paint, not because of the game).

Astra Militarum

Point Limit: 750
Points Used: 745

HQ [1]

Command Squad [175]
> 1x - Creed
> 4x - Veteran; Vox-caster, Regimental Standard, Medi-pack

Troops [3]

Veterans [100]; Forward Sentries
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 3x - Veterans; Grenade Launchers
> 6x - Veterans; Vox Caster, Krak Grenades

Veterans [145]; Forward Sentries
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant; Power Fist
> 1x - Veteran; Plasma Gun
> 1x - Veteran; Heavy Flamer
> 1x - Veteran; Meltagun
> 6x - Veteran; Vox Caster, Krak Grenades

Veterans [95]; Forward Sentries
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 7x - Veterans; Vox Caster, Krak Grenades
> 2x - Veterans; Flamers

Heavy Support [2]

Leman Russ Squad [155]
> 1x Leman Russ Vanquisher; Heavy Flamer, Lascannon

Wyvern Battery [75]
> 1x Wyvern; Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer

I think most people will agree 7th edition is a mess. What edition would people recommend I give a try? Talking purely in terms of best rules and codices.

>>46832684
>a narratively driven campaign
>What's the cheesiest/most powerful I could choose?
Fuck off.

>>46832723
That was more of a joke I probably should've excluded. The manager didn't realise I was going Creed and OK'd to see what I could pull off.

>>46832452
So i have been selected to hold a 40k event, where we are to play a 1000 point modified game. The idea is to limit list building, forcing you into odd choices, and prevent standard armies.

I can include 1 mission rule that will always be in effect on all units.

My idea was this:
-no heavy support options - these instead become "fast attack" slots.
-a maximum of 2 elite choices
-no super heavies
-only one detachment, and can never choose formations.

The mission rule would be:
Ice World: Brittle Ground
The battlefield was poorly chosen, and the ground is fragile. Any Bike, Vehicle, Walker or Monstrous Creature rolls a d6 on the start of their turn. On a roll of 1, they fall through the ground, and are removed from play. Skimmers can reroll this.

Everything but Infantry counts as always moving on dangerous terrain.

When firing Barrage Weapons, a roll of 1 (after rerolls) will also cause the model to crash through the ground.

Barrage hits always counts as instant death, as the ground beneath the target falls to their doom.


Thoughts? Anything I should remove, change or add?

>>46832713
I personally enjoyed 5th a lot.

Tau player here. The only problem was the feeling of being pidgeonholed into a pretty specific build by the end of it, aka Fish of Fury, but that was a codex issue.

6th felt more polished, but I keep missing some of the old options.

>>46832684
>a narratively driven campaign
>What's the cheesiest/most powerful I could choose?
Kill yourself

>>46832733
>a joke
Being a WAAC faggot that's the cancer killing the game is no joke, anon

>>46832723
Well, okay.

Not sure about the mixed loadout on the middle veteran squad. I'd shunt the heavy flamer in the the flamer squad and make that middle one a plasmagun team. Oh, and save 10 points by taking a power axe rather than a fist on that sergeant, it's only 1S you're losing. I'd also shave off points by dropping the heavy flamer sponsons on the russ, but that's just me.

Chimeras would be a good thing to consider for your next purchase, and a meltagun veteran team is a good thing to have too (but they NEED a transport, forward sentries won't cut it).

>>46832856
meant for
>>46832733

>>46832764
Why limit HS if you're going to limit "massive" units anyway?

>>46832834
Fair enough. I'm still new to scene, what I wrote makes me sound like more of a dick than intended.

>>46832856
I'll see what I can do about converting the flamer on the russ and switching the fist, you make really good points. Chimeras was something I was considering but I don't know how necessary they are if I intend on playing defensively.

>>46832873
Hmm, good point. Besides, a few HS options doesn't seem to actually be "heavy" as a unit (terminators, sniper drone team, etc.)

Will probably just remove that restriction then.

>>46832914
You can make it an escalating penalty with "mass" so Bulky, Extremely bulky, MC, GC Tanks ect, gets progressively worse.

Not sure how you'll deal with skimmer though as they are pretty much perfects for those environs.

>>46830513
Or let Big Meks go full Dark Eldar and buy a Telluporta, which would be fluffy as all fuck. Lets him + his unit deepstrike with full scatter, and if they land on a unit they enter combat with it, but take dangerous terrain checks.

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Alright, so I'm researching how to make my Space Marines as accurate as possible to the fluff.

How would I make the marines in the Start Collecting pack as Codex Compliant in their color schemes as possible?

Pic related is color scheme/chapter I'm using when I get them.

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Finally catching up on the Angel's of Death leaks. On one hand I'm happy with the Anvil Strike Force detatchment as an Iron Hands player who runs a vehicle heavy army, on the other hand the Medusa Strike Force is shit in comparison.

>>46832764
Jesus, a game with this would end in 3 turns.

>>46832943
>You can make it an escalating penalty with "mass" so Bulky, Extremely bulky, MC, GC Tanks ect, gets progressively worse.
I considered making heavy vehicles fail on a 1 AND 2, but not only does that seem really aggressive (to the point where you might as well ban them entirely) it also adds a level of conplexity, so adding a scale depending on the "weight" causes unnecesary bloat.

The skimmer thing was.. Difficult. It just makes sense that they can deal with the ground falling beneath them, or just not bother the ground enough in the first place to cause the problem.

I would prefer to just say fuck it, and have skimmers be affected like all other vehicles, but i am not sure how to explain that, from a fluff perspective.

>>46833027
Wasn't that stuff in the 2nd ed Ultras codex or something?

>>46833071
How so?

Unless you are unlucky with your rolls or brings a fuckton of vehicles, it could easily last the full duration. Without the really big guns, it is also easier to field footsloggers.

>>46833027
You would do the barest amount of googling
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex_Astartes#Heraldry

Got myself a company command squad and two cadian infantry squads recently, could someone recommend me another HQ or troop choice for later purchases?

And I don´t know if it´s the right place to ask, but is there a pdf link or something similar for the ciaphas cain novels?

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>>46833205

>>46832889
Good to hear. WAAC faggots don't get games in the end, so don't become one if you enjoy playing.

>>46832684
It's important to keep your units focused, don't split their guns up
Vets on the ground are dead vets if they don't have carapace upgrades. You are using forward sentries to help mitigate that, but your weapon choice is all over the place.

Lets start by giving them armor instead, armor will be better at these low point games
Give one squad two plasma guns, no flamer, no grenades
Give another squad two grenade launchers or flamers and a heavy flamer. Powerfist goes here

The vanquisher needs just the lascannon, don't give it heavy flamers
The wyvern should have a heavy bolter and the extra armor is a waste of points as it doesn't need to move anyway.
I would recommend another anti-tank/elite unit as well

As for HQ choice... why not take yarrick? Your narriative campaign chould be him trying to get his baneblade and he has a special version.

>>46833036
>1+ to FNP within 12 of any IC, also POTMS to vehicles within same range
>Access to silly formation were we get out of box, shoot and can get back inside of box
>2 warlord traits for HQ
>Can use contemptor dreads and cataphractii termies in formations
>Gets called shit
You don't play iron hands, do you?

>>46833205
We have no idea how you wish to run your guard, so any suggestion at this point is kinda moot. I would suggest some heavy weapons teams so you have some fire support.

are 2 knights in a 2000 points army too many?

>>46833264
What sort of environment? (Casual. competitive)
How optimised is the rest of your list?
Do your playgroup hate knights and will resent it even if your list isn't actually that tough?
Which knights? (Two Gallants is a very different proposition to two Crusaders)

In essence, how long is a piece of string?

>>46833264
It's fine if your opponent is fine with it. If it's a competitive game then who cares. I would personally hate playing against 2 in a casual game at anything below 2500, and I don't play games that high anyways.

>>46833264
Maybe, maybe not.
It's not WAAC tier, that's 3+
But if the rest if your army is grav spam, librarius conclaves, bike spam, or any of the other top tier combos... you have bigger issues.

>>46833027
Well, there's the different pauldron trim colors for each company, as well as different armor colors for Tech marines, librarians, etc.

How mad is my railgun fetish?
Fusion blaster/AFP are supposed to represent experimental short ranged railguns with regular and submunitions

+++ New Roster (1845pts) +++

+ HQ +

Commander [2x Marker Drone]
XV84 Commander Crisis Suit [2x Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Drone Controller, Fusion Blaster, Onager Gauntlet, XV84 Battlesuit]

Darkstrider

+ Troops +
Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual, 3x Marker Drone]
3x Crisis [2x Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Fusion Blaster]

Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual, 3x Marker Drone]
3x Crisis [2x Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Fusion Blaster]

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Marker Drone, 4x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Shas'ui [Blacksun Filter, Rail Rifle]
3x Pathfinder with Rail Rifle [3x Rail Rifle]

Pathfinder Team [Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Marker Drone, 4x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Shas'ui [Blacksun Filter, Rail Rifle]
3x Pathfinder with Rail Rifle [3x Rail Rifle]

+ Heavy Support +
Hammerheads
3x Hammerhead [2x Gun Drone, Railgun with Submunitions]

Broadsides [Bonding Knife Ritual, 4x Shield Drone]
3x Broadside [Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker]

>>46833286
>What sort of environment? (Casual. competitive)
tournament
>How optimised is the rest of your list?
it's a team tournament. my m8 is bringing skitarii and a knight, I was thinking about bringing black templars and a knight
>Do your playgroup hate knights and will resent it even if your list isn't actually that tough?
no, there are people who play knights, wraithknights and stormsurges. we already figured out that knights are beatable
>Which knights? (Two Gallants is a very different proposition to two Crusaders)
shit, I don't remember the names. he's bringing the one with melta cannon and power gauntlet, i am bringing the one with battle cannon and chainsword (was thinking about sticking an icarus on it too)


>In essence, how long is a piece of string?
one knight would be ok for sure, I don't know if two knights will become way too much for the opponent

>>46833320
nah the rest of the army is prety chill.
I actually don't know if I should bring a land raider crusader with some marines and an emperor's champion in it or go for some razorbacks with smaller crusader squads. I am going to bring a thunderfire for sure since it always performs well

>>46833347
Neither of those are a Crusader, so given the rest of your answer I'm almost tempted to say 'make one a Crusader'- that's the gatling cannon and then either the giant melta or the battle cannon.

Don't put an Icarus on there though, get some real AA in the rest of your army and use the 3-shot krak missile launcher.

>Take a Vanguard Veteren squad
>Give them all jump packs
>Give them all Double Grav-pistols
>Have them fly around gunslinging 10 Grav shots at things

Is there any way to do this that's less hilariously impractical?

>>46833246
>1+ to FNP within 12 of any IC, also POTMS to vehicles within same range
If you ever need to make use of a 5+ FNP as an Iron Hand vehicle heavy army, you've fucked up.

>Access to silly formation were we get out of box, shoot and can get back inside of box
Not sure which one this is actually, is it the mechanised infantry one? If so both deatchments get it.

>2 warlord traits for HQ
Which can only be generated from the tactical or strategic tables. It's nice but how often does you Warlord Trait really make a difference?

>Can use contemptor dreads and cataphractii termies in formations
Where exactly does it say this?

>>46833455
>52 points per model

Wew.

>>46833338
Your a madman, but only need minor changes
Consider simply twin linking the airbursters on everything. You need to hit, an extra shot at this point while powerful is less useful if the enemy isn't dead
The marker drones everywhere is okay, but I would suggest pulling 4 drones total from the battle suits, swaping the remainder for shield drones and tossing said maker drones into a FA drone squad for your commander to join.
Splitting the crisis battle suits into 3 squads of 2 sounds good.
For tank hunting, longstrike in one of the hammerheads. If you can manage, disruption pods on all.
Take plasma on the broadsides, you already have infinite infantry killing power with all the airbursters.

Consider trying to make the army work as a hunter cadre. You won't get darkstrider (you don't need him) but you'll get other bonuses that will make up for no markerlights.

In fact, I might suggest the complete removal of marker drones because of your army idea.

>>46833347
>LRC or razorbacks
I would argue for the LRC since you've already got 2 giant robots. Might as well add more armor.
Thunderfire cannons are godly. I run 3 from time to time

>>46833455
You can take a formation that lets vanguard arrive from deep strike and charge that turn. Would recommend. You need scouts to fill the formation.

>>46830645
Muh fake lookin 28mm genetically enhanced supersoldier

>>46833481
Yeah, that's why I'm worried. I was only planning on a small squad of 5, but that's still a lot of points in one unit.

>>46833486
Well, I was planning on taking some scouts. That might be a good way to help keep them alive for a turn if I charge something frail.

>>46833486
>You need scouts to fill the formation.

On the other hand, 5 scouts only cost 3 points more than one of your John Woo vets.

>>46833486
Well I figured the marker drones were more or less essential given the single shot nature of railguns and that Tau... shoot like guardsmen.

>>46833462
Strategic warlord traits are force multipliers. Almost always useful.
The formation is the stormlance company

>If you ever need to make use of a 5+ FNP as an Iron Hand vehicle heavy army, you've fucked up.
So you're either ignoring the free POTMS or don't have any infantry on the table.
My command squad now has a 3+ FNP
Normal dudes can get a 5+ easily
Termies? 5+ FNP, no problem
Thunderfire cannons with a 5+ FNP is downright dirty
Scouts with a 5+ FNP? Well hot damn time to overrun
And many more options. Any extra roll to save a dude from death is a welcome roll.

>Where exactly does it say this?
Angels of death, the thing you said you looked over

>>46830871
Still so flat

>>46831231
It's a Chaos Knight. What needs explaining? Rules are on Forgeworld's website.

>>46833486
>Consider trying to make the army work as a hunter cadre
Really hadn't looked into formations, personally I figure the top armies do well enough without them.

The issue with hunter cadre is... all that mandatory thrash that can't get railguns nor anything that can be fluffed as railguns, the reroll on wound is nice, but to me Obsec crisis suits seems more useful.
That said, the Ranged support cadre seems pretty much perfect for my concept.

>>46833462
Are you dense? That to +1FNPs is retardly good and allows you to whip out Smashfucker that has 2+/3++/2+++. If you get Endurance spell or right WL-trait you will have 1+ FNP and thus are unkillable by normal means outside D/instant death/Stomps.

>>46833772
Your army should do fine without formations. Its not the greatest thing, but its Tau, which counts for a lot.

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>>46833338
You might actually have enough markers in there to make this work.

You'll get crushed by any competitive list, but this looks like fun.

gj, anon.

>>46833919
To hell with competitive, if it'll go toe to toe with other fun lists and let me fire volleys of tungsten slugs so fast they change states, I'm happy.

>>46830350
Can troops who have disembarked a flyer re-embark it and fly elsewhere?

>>46833481
>xv8's costs 52 with only 2 plasmas

>>46834020
It does have some advantages over a double plasma crisis, mainly melee ability and effect on large MCs or vehicles.

Still probably speaks more to how pistols are overcosted more than anything.

Are there any chapters aside from black Templars or red hunters who would have strong ties with the ecclesiarchy?

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I'm in the middle of putting together my first sentinel... I've always loved the model, but never realised what bitches they are to put together. I mean, nothing on old metal models that had to be pinned to stand upright, but annoying nonetheless, especially if you want it to be dynamic, not stiff and retarded like the instructions recommend.

>>46834011
Yes, provided it's in "hover" mode.

>>46834109
know that feeling anon
the instruction manual could not be less clear when it comes to the legs

>>46834077
I actually don't know this one. I don't think so, mate, but there could be. I know there's approx. 32 chapters that worship the Empreror.

>>46834020
Minor, but they also have two wounds.

>>46834281
They also have Jetpacks instead of Jump packs, which is a rather key difference.

Crisis suits are extremely effective as durable mobile shooting platforms.

Vanguard vets just aren't designed for that.

>>46834060
I feel like pistols should either only be 5 ppm
Or keep the pricetag, but instead of providing an additional attack, be able to fire them in close combat. (Cypher style)

I know that bugs out Marines, giving them default AP5

So maybe models need a melee weapon or two pistols to shoot in close combat... idk.

>>46833455
Probably want to Deep strike them.

>>46834335
Even if they drop to 10 they're an actual alternative to combi-weapons. Not a must-take by any stretch, but no longer a never-take.

>>46834335
I'm not sure if they need to go that low, since pistols do still pack a decent punch. The main issue is they're usually half the shots and half the range of a standard version of the gun for the same price.

The main benefit is they function as a CC weapon, but even those are only 2 points for basic ones.

I think 10 points is a bit more fair to represent that. Its a bit over half the price of a standard gun, but has that CC utility.

I think the same price as a combi-gun is rather fair.

>>46833997
good man.

>>46834381
Yeah, that's the feeling I'm getting. I think I may have to dial it back from all 5 having them and give it to just 2-3. Then I might be able to get a couple of storm shields on the others to tank for the squad and help them live.

Just as well. I'm not sure 10 grav shots from the sky would have done much anyway

>>46834077
Poke around lexicanum, I'm sure you can find a few more.

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>>46832684
Creed benefits best from having a fuckload of infantry, being an orders machine, but if you're going for fun and fluffy thats cool. The medipack is a bit meh as FNP on guard gets ignored by most things that would target them. If you want more survivability, put more warm bodies in the squad - life is the emperor's currency, spend it well.

The Veterans have mistakes that I see a lot of new Guard players do - they grab a handful of toys without synergy. Each squad could do with a slight tune up:

The first one should drop grenade launchers, I think they're a huge waste of the potential power a unit with 3 special weapons can have in it - if you're looking for a budget option, sniper rifles on BS4 will do you a lot more favours. Give them an autocannon, stick them on your back line and let Creed order them all day long.

The second sqaud has a bit of everything going on - Choose Melta or Plasma and have three of them. Like another anon said, move the heavy flamer to the squad with the other flamers. If you go melta, I would highly recommend going 2x Melta, Krak and a Chimera. With Plasma, drop Forward Sentries and give the poor bastards some carapace armour, so it's at least 50/50 for them when their weapons get hot (any way you can give these guys twin-linked is golden, a Primaris works best).

For the third, flamers are fine, but they are a waste of the BS4 that veterans have. En masse though, they clear objectives alright, especially if they have a heavy flamer too.

The Vanquisher is a bit of a hit or miss Russ - in that it will miss half its shots all game on average. The Lascannon is the right way to go with the hull weapon, but I feel that sponsons are a bit of a wasted investment - no weapon you can get on a sponson does what the Vanquisher hopes to achieve.

The Wyvern is great, drop the extra armour, wasted points. Heavy Flamer isn't the best hull weapon choice, but can work in certain situations.

>>46834077
Fire Angels possibly.

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>>46834165
I feel sorry for anyone who followed them to the letter and ended up with static, awkward sentinels.

I'm pretty ok with how this one turned out though, can't wait to get it painted.

>>46833338
My mate has a hard-on for Hammerheads, I may well show him this list to give him inspiration.

Would using Tomb King Necropolis Knights as The admech chicken walkers be viable?

Are they similar in size? I'd convert obviously, ranger on top, and probably paint them metallic.

>>46834670
>amd

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>>46831231
It's a Chaos Knight. Take a knight, bind some daemons in there, have a party. I won't be doing rules for them, at least not anytime soon. Next up is rules for all the variant CSM; Raptors, Bikers, Havocs. I'll also probably have the rough draft for Chosen done pretty soon. I want to have all the other "regular" CSM done first since the Chosen are a bit of a shift from their current incarnation.

>>46834778
>5 points cheaper than a squad of tacticals to get a squad of tacticals with WS5
>Same cost as a squad of tacticals to get a squad of tacticals with 2 attacks each and WS 5

I... explain your reasoning behind this pricing model?

>>46833246
>WAAC faggots don't get games in the end, so don't become one if you enjoy playing.

I dunno how firm that rule really is. The only people I see consistently get told no thanks are assholes and turbo-autists who can't even manage to folliw a nerd store's socual rules. WAACers who are friendly and enjoyable to talk too get games all the time.

>>46833264

one per thousand is the rule of thumb for superheavies.

>>46834870
They have to buy their Chapter Tactics analogue, and Tactical Marines are kinda shit to begin with. Tacticals should probably be 13 PPM too.

>>46834931
>WAACers who are friendly and enjoyable to talk to
People who are friendly and enjoyable to talk to aren't WAACers as they devote energy to matters beyond stomping the opponent.

>>46834670
yeah they're pretty fun to look at when you pose them properly
mine's running and i only had to tear it apart mid gluing 3 times on my first try !

>>46834964
My opinion on this entry is that even if you don't buy their Chapter Tactics equivalent these guys are probably too good.

5 Man CSM Squad

Aspiring Champion
>Combi Plasma (assuming this is 10 points still)
> Bolt pistol
>CCW
>Meltabombs

2 Marines +Boltgun
2 Marines +Plasma Guns

115 pts

Add Devotion to Deceit to give them all Infiltrate and PE(Infantry) for 15 points...

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>>46834931
Competitive players want competitive games. I prefer to play competitive, tournament-style games, because that's what I'm into atm. But I'm perfectly happy to play a fluffy, infantry-only 750 game with the new kid at the shop. So long as everybody is having fun, it's all good.

How do you feel about deception at the table, tg?

For example, if as I was moving a unit I conspicuously measured the distance between it and an enemy unit and said "yep, they'll be able to get off a charge next turn" to focus attention there even though I have no intention to attempt that charge and, in fact, plan to send the unit somewhere else entirely.

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>>46834745
I thought we were discussing toy soldiers, not my budget laptop senpai

>>46835134
I think it's tryhardy, and makes someone seem untrustworthy. 40k is a social game and doing stuff like this degrades this social contract.

>>46835134
Its adorable when they try.
About as clever as saying "oh boy I sure do hope noone charges these guys out here all alone with no backup"

>>46835134
I usually find its enough to just not inform them what you're planning.

>>46835134
I wouldn't do it, and wouldn't like to see it outside of a tournament setting.

Like, it I sit down with my mates to play some casual mtg, we're not going to be trying to tilt one another, and any non-tournament 40k is basically that.

>>46835112
Don't bother arguing with him, he thinks that the only way to make CSM not-shit is to make their basic troops able to compete with WAAC eldar and tau lists

>>46835112
115 for 2 Plasma Guns and Combi-plasma sounds pretty reasonable to me. It's putting out less firepower than equal points in Skitarii Vanguard or Crisis Suits, gaining a significant amount of melee capability in exchange.

I chose Vanguard and Crises Suits for comparison because I think they're very good model Troop Units. Both are Troops that are actually useful beyond being a tax. Tactical Marines on the other hand are mainly taken because they get free metal boxes.

Devotion of Deceit is one of the Devotions that I've struggled with. I've been contemplating dropping the PE in favor of some weaker but fluffy alternative, but I'm not sure what. Just Infiltrate just seems kinda boring and one-dimensional.

>>46835203
I didn't take three years of drama to fuck it up that bad!

>>46835182
>>46835220

There definitely are social games where deception is allowed. Grad party played poker with his mated every other week for yonks. That game is all about deception and I don't think he was in it for the pennies nickels and dimes they bet. I could believe that 40k just isn't one of those games though.

I'll lay off it in non-tournament settings.

>>46835289
>>46835289
>Using Crisis suits as an example of troop choice balance
>Using Elites with FoC switching from a supplement as an example of ideal troops

So your troops are on par with elites, and I assume you're going to make the cult marines even better than that while still being able to become troops?

>>46835224
I can post older PDF's and show you where I've made alterations in response to the feedback that I've received. Hell, I could probably go back through the archives and show you which posts prompted which changes. The only complaint that I feel is entirely baseless is the complexity complaint, as these rules aren't really any more or less complex than any other armies unique rules.

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>>46835134
Unsportsmanlike and disrespectful in my opinion anon. It feels better to win by outplaying and outthinking your opponent, not by lying to them.

Me and a friend are going to try out a game of 1000pt Zone Mortalis the day after tomorrow. Neither of us have ever played the gametype, but we're hoping it will be a change from bringing the same three lists to games every game. We're playing 2 HQ 2 elite 4 Troop 1 HS/FA and max one walker/MC, on recommendation from the FLGS owner. I could be playing Nids, Grey Knights, C:SM or Renegades, and he could be playing Tau, Daemons, Orks or Deathwing-i'm guessing he'll bring Daemons. Since i rarely bring my nids out, and never my kustom Deathleaper, i made this relatively punchy list. Does anyone with experience at ZM have any suggestions to make?

200-Tyrant with T/L devourer and Lashbone
130-Deathleaper

134-Genestealers with Broodlord, scything talons
134-Genestealers with Broodlord, scything talons
100-Warrior Brood with Barbed Strangler
100-Warrior Brood with Venom Cannon
50-10 Hormagaunts
48-8 Termagaunts, 2 Devilgaunts

50-Zoanthrope
50-Zoanthrope

>>46830618
well meganobz are limited to 5 in a squad, just make it so it only has one squad capacity, then it can still carry 20.

the only problem is it would immediatley invalidate the trukk as nobody would take it ever again. So thats perfect for GW.

>>46835380
I'm not planning on doing cult marines as such. Thousand Sons will get done because they're so strange, and I have yet to decide how Noise Marines will be added in.

Other than Fearless, there's not really much difference between these guys with a Covenant of Wrath or Decay and a current Plague Marine or Berzerker. Which is intentional. I think it's silly to have multiple units all trying to represent the same thing.

The idea that the core of the army is supposed to be bland shit is a stupid and outdated idea, especially now that formations allow you to completely omit them in favor of more elites if you so choose.

>>46830816
green tide is dead and gone.

>>46835289
You have a BS advantage over the crisis suits, but I don't think they're a fair comparison for actual Troops anyway.
S, T, WS, I, and armour save advantages over the Vanguards... stronk. The Vanguard do still have stuff going for them though.

>>46835134

It's cool. You're visibly weighing up tactical options, and the difference between changing your mind, halfheartedly considering an option that you probably won't use later and actively faking a tactic you aren't ever going to use is negligible.

Plus, you think the actual generals your models represent never try to pretend they're using one strategy then switch to their real one?

>>46834109

Nice picture of your crotch bro.

>>46834931
Then you know how it works.

We only have 1 guy who has trouble getting games. He sticks around because a few people actually dont mind his War Convocation, and can deal with his autistic behavior, (including compulsive cheating and sometimes leaving mid-game - he is especially bad when he forgets to take his meds.), the rest already left because they were annoying fuckers in general.

>>46835458
Looks pretty fun. It shouldn't have a problem against anything he's likely to bring with those armies he has. Beware of daemon summoning though.

>>46835610
My CSM have an advantage in BS, but the Crises have an advantage in mobility and the actual number of shots they put out for an equal-ish number of points. Two Shas'vre with Two Plasma Guns apiece throw out 4/8 Shots for 2/4 average Hits, The CSM throw out 2/4 shots for 1.333/2.666 hits. Higher Strength for the CSM, but no Gets Hot. On the turn they pop the combi, they're even.

On whether Crises are a viable comparison for troops, we may just have to agree to disagree. CSM already have the ability to run nothing but Elites as Troops, and it's not exactly intentionally restrictive to do so.

The Vanguard have more shots at what, with Imperatives accounted for, will be a higher BS. Everything is less clear cut, with each have the advantage in different situations.

>>46835702
Yeah, planning to get up close and personal with anything capable of summoning ASAP if he decides to go that way. Its Tau that will fuck me dry, but he knows just how good tau are right now. I'm loving the fact that i can bring my massive old metal Tyrant for once, and Deathleaper should hopefully do well. I doubt he will be bringing summonspam to our game, his daemons are either flying circus (can't bring his Tetrad, i am so sick of that thing already) or KDK khorndoggies

>>46835626
>Plus, you think the actual generals your models represent never try to pretend they're using one strategy then switch to their real one?

>skitarii
She almost certainly thought the "pretend" strategy was real and implimented it to the best of her ability right up until her mind was manually updated to the "real" one when it was time to switch tracks.

>>46834670

I love how they look. Reminds me off the light mechs from the Mech Warrior games.

Just as useless too!

>>46835871

outflanking autocannons aren't that useless.

>>46835814
really? I've never seen tau do any good in ZM. What in the tau arsenal really scares you? I've usually found they get assaulted around the corner without firing a shot much too often.

>>46835798
>On whether Crises are a viable comparison for troops, we may just have to agree to disagree. CSM already have the ability to run nothing but Elites as Troops, and it's not exactly intentionally restrictive to do so.
The "tax" for Crisis suits as troops depends a lot though, since the tax is being forced to take bonding knifes on EVERYTHING that can take it. That means a 10 man fire warrior squad costs 10 points more, that lone riptide costs 1 point more, and those crisis suits costs 1ppm more.

Whether or not that is fair, depends entirely on the army. If you take 3 squads of crisis suits and a fuckton of riptides, you'll have very few bodies on the field, but wont be punished by the tax. You can make up for the lack of bodies by adding a shitton of drones that cannot take bonding knives, or kroot for the same reason.

Fire Warriors are already costly, probably a point more expensive than they should have been, and adding a point on top of that...

Not to mention that bonding knife does literally nothing for 80% of all units you would purchase them on, since it just grants Heroic Morale, AKA IC status in terms of regrouping. This only kicks in when you have 25% or less of the original unit left standing, which wont ever happen on 3-man teams of Ghostkeels/Crisis Suits/Riptides

It's a bit of a toss-up, really, but I've run my Tau as Farsight for a very long time, and I have no intentions of stopping. You just start noticing the "fill" points you suddenly have everywhere after listbuilding for a while.

Warhammer 40k VR tabletop game when?

>>46835626

This. I don't see why everyone was crying in the earlier responses.

>Wow wtf m8 why didn't you tell me exactly what your strategy was on turn 1 and announce what you're going to do the next turn during my turn so I can deal with the threats? Not cool bro not cool. Wow I can't believe you'd measure something you weren't planning to do immediately, oh my fucking god stop playing mind games!

that said, this also applies
>>46835203

>>46835626
I think this shit is great and fluffy. At my flgs, players have a bad habbit of not declairing their warlords because we assume the most blinged out character is the warlord. I used that to my advantage by distracting all of my opponents fire power into trying to kill my 200+ point Chaos Biker Lord with a massive CSM biker retinue was my warlord, when my warlord was really a shitty ml2 Sorceror sitting in the backfield.

As long as youre not outright cheating, then its fine by me.

>>46835984
Newb to ZM, i've just been on the receiving end of MSU crisis spam too often on open ground, and they're still capable of popping out with dual shredding flamers and then jetting away-consider what that would do to, say, my genestealers and gaunts.

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What are the best allies to field with a Sisters army to cover their weaknesses?

SM for a land raider or stormraven to put Repentia in? Vindicare assassin for some extra ranged damage? Imperial Knight for some ultra heavy firepower?

>>46836031

Sorcerer: You thought Fred was in charge? Look, Fred is a great warrior, very skilled at what he does, real scary guy. Couldn't say one bad thing about him as a champion of the gods, but he has the tactical ability of a whelk.

>>46836081
Anti-air and long range firepower is the most important things.

>>46836050
well if you really want to wipe whatever he brings just take your GK along with some purifiers, then cleansing flame behind walls. It's pretty brutal in ZM. Though if he brings deathwing you're probably in trouble.

>>46836081
Really any of the "ally" tier codexes of the Imperium works.
Includes: Inquistion, Militarum Tempestus, Assassins, Legion of the Damned, Grey Knights

Space Marines or Imperial Guard do well too.

But it all depends on what you're lacking: most likely AA, maybe bodies.

As Sisters you should have Meltas and Flamers in spades. So long range firepower / bodies for Objectives might be good.

I'd go Guard personally.

>>46835134
Why would anybody have a problem with this? There's no rule-breaking, no list-tailoring, no spam, no cheese - it's just old-fashioned battlefield deception. It's the same thing as leaving a unit intentionally vulnerable to bait an enemy into attacking it.

You should be honest about your list and play a list that will result in a fun game for both parties (meaning that it has a chance to win and a chance to lose as well). Once you're on the table, deception without breaking the rules itself is a part of the game, and can make for some really fun moments for either team.

>>46835182
>>46835220

Y'all niggas need to calm down.

>>46836081
Depends on what your sisters are doing. MSU in immolators? Exorcist spam? Blobs with priests? Repentia and Penitent engines? That said, Land raiders are pretty awful in general, so i would skip that option. You're weak to aircraft and your long-range is weak unless you field 3+excorcists, so mechguard, skitarii with an onager or Spess muhreens are decent

>>46835997
More like 40k videogame that emulates the tabletop perfectly fucking when..

Seriously, the math involved in the game is meant to be done in your head and simple enough that a retard could do them. Making a videogame that does this would be CAKE.

>>46836205
Odds are GW just won't allow it because it would cut into their tabletop profits

>>46836132
I'll write that up, Termie lib/termie squad, two lots of ten purifiers combat squadded and some interceptors to chase down stragglers should come to about a thousand. Seems a bit brutal, unless he does bring shredding flamers i think i'll leave that in the ideas box for the moment.

>>46830645
hes right. you only do a significant amount highlights if you want your shit to look cartoony.

>>46836081

They lack long-range pieplates, which you can cover through Leman Russes.

Psykers can be covered by either grabbing Coteaz, or allying in BA for their Librarians *and* those sweet, sweet drop pods.

Sisters also lack anti-air but unless you're taking on Flyrants, this is mitigated by simply shooting exorcists at flyers and making them jink.

>>46836216
Fruck GW, just do it like Duke made Chapter Master. Just code it in silence, steal the art off Vassal and other shit (and make the rest yourself or commission friends) and suddenly release it on the internet as HEY DIGITAL 40k TABLETOP COME AND GET IT.

Once its out there, it will always be out there and GW can only C&D if the creator keeps blabbering on about every step of development and showcasing shit on multiple websites.

In fact this goes for a lot of shit that gets C&D'd. I get it, you want to build hype, you want to bring in fans for many reasons (including possible donations because everyone likes money and nobody likes to work for free) but come on.

If I could code, I'd have already released it, but I can't, I'm a fucking luddite. But plenty of people out there can.

>>46836276
Apparently, in addition to your ignorance vis a vis coding, you are also completely in the dark about how C&Ds and copyright law work.

>>46835665
I have never understood war convocation hate. After you know its one trick pony strategy, its easy to beat, and the list is so mono build. Honestly I have looked at those lists, played them. sure its like 400 points of free wargear, but there is also what I consider 380 ish point so dead weight in the easily killable rust stalkers and infiltrators. And you do want to kill them.

>>46836014
Had a guy flip his shit because I did something similar. I just do this in general, like, move up, measure where the eligible targets are, but without saying anything. That was apparently "messing with him" to the point where he packed up and left.

I know he has a diagnosis, but come on man. We are allowed to measure as often as we want to, and if you think it is "unsportsmanlike behavior" to measure against possible targets, you should probably get yourself a psychological evaluation, or better yet, warn your opponent before the game, so we have a chance to decline before you throw a tantrum.

Am I a fag for wishing Baron was an upgrade to a Knight instead of something you need to take three of them to get?

I'd rather field am important household member than some random low level knight pilot. On the other hand if it was an upgrade everyone would be taking WS/BS5 Knights all the time.

>>46836306
Then explain to me. A GHOST creates a game and releases it to the internet. You can't sue what you don't even know exists. Just one day, a new game happens to pop out of the aether.

>>46836014
Personally, my problem with it is that you're acting like a manipulative dick, and then arguing people shouldn't be upset by it. Whether that argument is valid or not doesn't really matter, because it's invalidated by your intent, which is to metagame and manipulate.

Saying one unit is another, when it isn't, is against the rules. Just because what anon described isn't doesn't mean it's not in the same shitty spirit.

>>46836313

Well, Ruststalkers and Infiltrators are great units with low survivability in a list with no redundancy for them, sure.

End of the day though, buncha free points and a superheavy is a dickish list.

>>46836313
Considering the rest of us go for new fluffy dumb lists every time, a War Convocation is hell to deal with. And his behavior just breaks the deal for most of us.

War convocation is incredibly potent unless you are marines, or are bringing a powerlist yourself.

>>46836413
>Considering the rest of us go for new fluffy dumb lists every time, a War Convocation is hell to deal with.

40k needs its own EDH format, somehow.

Except that EDH has been shit for some time.

>>46836475

Electro-Duke Hurricane?

>>46830350

>gork/morkanughts superheavy walkers

They wouldn't be very good Super-Heavy Walkers though.

I don't think they could even challenge another Super-Heavy Walker with any chance of success given how lack luster their Ballistic Skill and Initiative are.

>>46836385
>metagame
Fuck this noise. You have a problem metagaming, but call it cheating to mix up units?

How do you know who the Warlord is? Metagaming. How do you know the statline of my models? Meta. gaming.

Go fuck yourself with a rake you autistic faggot.

>>46836413
>War convocation is incredibly potent unless you are marines, or are bringing a powerlist yourself.
>unless you are marines

Listen faggot, stop spouting off about Space Marines. Someone gave you the bad touch and thats not nice, but SM isnt what you are making it out to be. Sure they can cookie cut like eldar and make super powerful lists, but not every single fucking list is going to be the 90% win chance rate that you keep fucking insinuating

>>46836475
That would only divide the community
What 40k should do is go back to the days of 5th edition when they gave a shit about game balance.
After all if people enjoy playing your game, they will buy/play more.

>>46830962
Local play plays tau, space wolves, necrons and now eldar. He bitches when someone beats his wulfen or optimized stealth cadre, or his scatter bikes. Just recently he said he's refusing to play against hordes since he lost against orks and guard.

>>46836490
But they would be far more survivable, and would be capable of stomping, and no longer being stomped themselves.

It would be a massive buff.

>>46836490

So? They're low priced for a superheavy unit and it'd boost durability and mobility. Big upgrade.

>>46836501
>How do you know who the Warlord is? Metagaming. How do you know the statline of my models? Meta. gaming.
Both of those are open information regarding the game state. Your retarded chimpout is far more autistic than >>46836385. Which isn't even really autistic at all.

>>46836475
Well, that's easy.

>You can only take one of any unit in a list

Obviously you'll need exceptions for troops, but I would suggest allowing for multiples of only the more standard troops. Let people take multiple guardian squads if they want, but Windriders are out.

Then go ahead and ban formations for good measure.

>>46836518
>5th edition
>gave a shit about game balance
kek, take off the goggles, the game was just as breakable just in different ways

>>46836542
>plays militarum tempestus, assassination force and Inquisition
pls no

>>46836490
Think of it this way. Superheavy doesn't make them on par with a Knight. It just makes them closer in durability to a Land Raider.

Add on assault vehicle and you'd have a fast, durable transport for a small squad.

>>46836543
>the game was just as breakable just in different ways
no. the game has never been as broken as it is right now.

>>46836276
>>46836368
>Someone else should do all this coding work then release the result for free
Really now.

>>46836501
Weird definition of metagaming that you're using there. It's within the rules that you know who the Warlord is, and that lists and stats are public knowledge. This is all within the game system.

The ability to tilt your opponent and trick them into thinking that you're running one strategy or another is not covered by the game system.

>>46830645
he probably cant into edge highlighting and creating raised surfaces/light. So he went typical retard and decided 'they look bad'. Just your average everyday retard.

>>46836572
Or give them decent weaponry, put a mek and three burnameks in it and have it as an tough, hard to kill blast-slinging gun platform

>>46836510
?

Who the fuck pissed in your morning coffee?

I am used to people on /tg/ sperging out, but holy shit, contain your anger. I have literally never said Marines are unbeatable.

I just know the marine guys can bring whatever they want and still conpete with war convo, while the rest of us get shit on. I don't know what your problem is.

>>46836542
>Then go ahead and ban formations for good measure.

This is always dumb, but it's SUPER dumb in the context of trying to build a fluff format.

>>46836542
Does nothing about the massive disparity in terms of codexes, other than knocking Space Marines and Necrons down out of the Eldar/Tau/Daemons tier. Orks, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Eldar are still trailing everyone by a significant margin. Tau, Daemons, and Eldar are still dominating. Eldar probably gain in their power lead due to everything being at least okay.
>>46836543
Fucking 5th edition Grey Knights and Space Wolves. Every other MEQ was why bother tier.

>>46836577
No man a GHOST is going to do it. Ghosts don't need to be compensated for work, and they can magically distribute games widely and without cost, and without any prior publicity that might garner any interest in the game.

Duh.

>>46830871
Your model lacks depth. Highlights mimic light and whatnot.

>>46836576

complete bollocks.

>>46836531
>Local play plays tau, space wolves, necrons and now eldar.
Then he is a FOTM player, neither a Tau or Eldar player.

Also
>replying to a guy who probably left hours ago

>>46836576
Well thats like your opinion man. Compare the current eldar to 5th ed GK, they're about equally broken. high intiative power weapons as basically standard, millions of psykers, a few completely broken units, etc. Take off the nostalgia goggles, see the world as it really is

>>46836568
>Playing meme armies

I don't know anyone with a full assassin force, and I often see Inquisition used as an excuse to spam Servo skulls.

You might as well complain that this prevents you from playing Legion of the Damned.

>>46835289
>115 for 2 Plasma Guns and Combi-plasma sounds pretty reasonable to me.

115 gives loyalist bike squads with 2 Plas/Grav guns and a Combi for that price.

I would say you have it fair there.

>>46836538
Just pointing out how flat out retarded it is to complain about "metagaming" when that is literally half the game.

>>46830865
>Probably only marine players who would bitch, and they can go fuck themselves with their codex.
>>46831051
>Tau falls squarely into that category too. Marines are clearly more powerful than Tau, as pretty much any tournament result will show you.
>The only army that gives Marines a run for their money are Eldar, and Marines still have a fair chance of winning, unlike almost every other army.
>>46831168
>Anyone putting marines on the same level of Tau are delusional. Why can't you people just admit that your army is exceedingly powerful?
>>46836413
>War convocation is incredibly potent unless you are marines, or are bringing a powerlist yourself.

Trends anon.

>>46830962
You're a fucking retard.

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Please teill me I can do this with the knight kit

>>46836600
>Hard to kill

Its a AV 13 walker with 5 hullpoints. Anything that looks at it funny will ruin its day.

Making it a superheavy doesn't stop you from loading it with Meks, and makes the guns better by default since they can then shoot different targets.

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What do you guys think about this? Ol' Uriah is hanging with the Repentia. Would it be better to have more, smaller units of battle sisters? Like 4 units of 5 instead of 2 units of 10? I was trying to economize with the transport capacity of the Rhino

+++ Sisters (1000pts) +++

>+ HQ (100pts) +
Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith (100pts)

>+ Elites (145pts) +
1x Repentia Squad (145pts) [Mistress of Repentance, 4x Sister Repentia]
····Immolator [Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer]

>+ Troops (350pts) +
2x Battle Sister Squad (175pts) [7x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Heavy Flamer, Sororitas Rhino]
····Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

>+ Fast Attack (280pts) +
1x Dominion Squad (175pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
····Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
····Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

1x Seraphim Squad (105pts) [2x Seraphim, Seraphim with Two Hand Flamers, Seraphim with Two Hand Flamers]
····Seraphim Superior [Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol]

+ Heavy Support (125pts) +
1x Exorcist (125pts)

>>46836610
>I just know the marine guys can bring whatever they want and still conpete with war convo, while the rest of us get shit on. I don't know what your problem is.

Marines can't bring "whatever they want" to be competitive.

They have to bring specific formations and wargear to get there.

I can't just throw 10 Landspeeder Storms on the table and say good day. Nor can I run assault marines how I want to.

>>46836682
But none of the stuff you mentioned is metagaming.

>>46836620
Well, I never said someone needs to be compensated for it, maybe they just really want to fucking do it. Tons of famous software has been released for free in the past (like mIRC way back in the day).

>magically distribute games widely and without cost, and without any prior publicity that might garner any interest in the game.
How hard can it be? A few free accounts behind a proxy on various 40k boards, /v/ and /tg/ and bam, word of mouth does the rest. People are spreading the game files through torrents, MEGAs, email, Wetransfer, Dropbox and all that junk and GW can't hope to catch shit.

>>46836662
>thing is rare, fluffy and fun to play
>better call it a meme army!
Yeah nah, i play assassination force with all metal models bar the new eversor, five plasma scion squads, two four-melta commands and three squads of henchmen with chimeras and meltas with Coteaz. More fluffy than most imperial superfriends, not completely broken and genuinely good fun, unlike my tyranids right now

>>46836617
Alright. If you can find formations that only require 1 of any given unit, you can take them in a Highlander format.

>>46836619
>Does nothing about balance

It hurts spam lists, which I think is a valid goal.

>>46836703
Give it Fiddler Crab legs? Not really. At least, not without a ton of conversion work. Give it a thumbs up? Should be pretty easy. You'll just need to cut and re-position some knuckle joints.

>>46836705
Rather than give it superheavy and assault vehicle, give it superheavy and decent weapon options. I was offering an alternate option to assault vehicle, not disputing the requirement for Superheavy

>>46836682
The definition of metagaming that you are using is not one that most people use.
Metagaming is using things that aren't part of the game system.

Knowing the stats of a monster without the right knowledge skill is metagaming (and cheating) in a tabletop because you gain an in-game advantage by applying OC knowledge through your character.

Knowing the stats of your opponents units in a tabletop wargame is not metagaming because we don't have that distinction.

Using social engineering to tilt or deceive your opponent is metagaming, but it's not cheating.

>>46836695
>10 am
>11 am
>11 am
>19 am

Maybe dont flip your shit because some random guy sperged out 8 hours ago. The chance of him still being here is practically nill.

>>46836767
Why not both, really? Give it good guns and an assault ramp. Gives Orks another good transport option and lets it function as an independent unit.

>>46836751
Weaker codexes are often reliant on spam to compete. This change does nothing to help the codex power stratification, which is the real problem that needs addressing. Other than the ridiculous variance in formation strengths and restrictiveness.

>>46836600

>give them decent weaponry

And more Hull Points while they're at it.

I'm not opposed to the idea of making them a Super-Heavy Walker, but I'd rather have them as one that can hold their own on the table.

Not as a glorified, six person transport very likely to lose if it confronts another Super-Heavy Walker or Gargantuan Creature.

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Out of curiosity, if formations were taken away and all armies were running CADs would that greatly effect the army ranks or is it more of a unit by unit problem?

>>46836720
Biker heavy, vehicle heavy, footslogger heavy, psychic heavy, drop pod spam, scout heavy, etc.

It literally doesnt matter what TYPE of list they bring, or even if they use formations, they are still competing just fine with the war convo, while the rest of us are getting stomped.

>>46836827
It would weaken the top tier armies, but not really affect the lower ones. Riptide Wings and Skyhammers are a fair bit better than anything Orks or Nids get

>>46836827
Marines are now only top-tier when run as biker gangs, eldar are still top dog, tau are still great but slightly less amazing. Not much else gets affected

>>46836827
Space Marines are hit the hardest, followed by Necrons. Tau and Eldar, especially Eldar, are significantly better than everybody else.

>>46836827
>all armies were running CADs would that greatly effect the army ranks

It may a bit but most of the time top armies have great units.

What makes most competetive lists good with their formations is that there are good units that a formation rewards you for bringing.

No where else is this more prevalent than the Destroyer Cult for Necrons.

Destroyers are a fantastic unit and get Hatred on everything, the formation just makes that better and make them all more survivable if taken with the Reclamation Legion.

>>46836658
GK was towards the end of 5th, and caused by our spiritual liege.
As a whole, 5th was pretty good. Wound allocation nonsense would have been fine if you had to keep allocating to the same model until it died.

>>46836640
>didn't play 5th edition

>>46836720
>I can't just throw 10 Landspeeder Storms on the table and say good day.
That would be 10 landspeeders with a large blast at str 2 that blinds, I'll give it a multi-melta upgrade and the squad inside will be 5 dudes with one combi melta. Each unit is 115 points.
That's 1150 points of scout landspeeders with jink and meltas and other bullshit. I know a guy that does this actually.

If we removed grav guns from marines, they would still be powerful. Not max easy mode, but powerful.

>>46836827
Removal of formations would remove their effects.
That doesn't change invisiblity, stomp attacks, D weapons, or superheavies. It just means those without those have a harder time.

Wow the last 3 or 4 generals have been full of shitposting retards, far more than usual. Wonder whats going on, or is the 40k playerbase getting overrun with retards?

The arguments dominating these threads are assinine. I know its /tg/ but some of you guys seem to be shockingly stupid, beyond what Im accustomed to seeing here.

>>46835418
Is that some Eldar way of saying take better units for a batter codex?

>>46836827
>if formations were taken away
I would be unable to run an army. I don't own any Dark Angels troops so I rely on the Strike Force (and Squadrons) to run my army at all.

>>46836774
>Metagaming is using things that aren't part of the game system.
No it isn't. If you look up monster statd in a D&D game, you are metagaming, despite it being clearly part of the game system.

>Using social engineering to tilt or deceive your opponent is metagaming
So is using general strategy. You are basically saying the most common and basic war strategy, feints and diversions, are bad sportsmansship in a fucking wargame.

>>46836882
>Weather gets nicer
>Threads get worse

SUCH IS THE ROTATION!

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How would you fluff a Tzeentch renegade militia?

What book would be best for that? Vraks just has Khorne and Nurgle.

I want to put together a large CSM, Daemons and Renegades Tzeentch force.

CSM are going to be Thousand Sons, Daemons are obviously Tzeentchian but I can't figure out what to do with my renegades.

>>46836658
no, none of that is nearly as broken as an ARMY OF SUPERHEAVIES or current tau/dar or superfriends, or grav guns or the new SM psychic shit.

>>46836475
Edh is only shit if you play with autistic people who think winning is still the main goal of the game, when the real goal is to make janky decks, shoot shit, make dumb plays, and have fun with other like-minded players. But there is always that asshole who wants to run a prison deck or a deck that plays their win donation turn 3

>>46836947
Use the imperial armor 13 list, you can have a covenant of tzeentch on your units.

>>46836933
Night Lords use terror tactics. If I skin my opponent's cat and wear the hide as a mask, I'm a metagaming asshole. And probably going to jail.

>>46836947
IA13 has the rules, 50 man mutant hordes, the best spawn in the game and all the toys of regular Guard if you want that.

>>46836882

All these new 40k video games are attracting braindead tards to the hobby, who would usually lurk /v/, that means most of you after getting interested in the 40k universe.

>>46836970
>Not skinning your opponent and wearing his flesh as a coat
Kurze is disappoint.

>>46836947
High ranking officer is secretly a psyker. He joins one of the Thousand Sons recruitment cults. Now he's trying to prove his worth to them so that they'll take him away and make him one of them.

>>46836936
Fuck you. I am jealous now. We are having a snowstorm here.
i kid, i just want it to clear up so I can spray my new models.

>>46836957
>ARMY OF SUPERHEAVIES
hi, im playing maelstrom, and have units with meltabombs. Have fun losing with your four models
>Tau/dar
5th ed GK were basically current eldar
>grav guns
ok, these are stupid good
>psychic bullshit
oh, you shot me fifteen times with a plasmagun? well, i remove two models and the other eleven wounds just dissapear :^)

>>46836992
That can't really be the opening move, since it kinda prevents any further moves. First you skin the cat and play a game wearing a snazzy new calico muffler. Then you string his goldfish together and leave them in an envelope on his pillow. Then you murder his gypsy girlfriend and stage an elaborate ruse so that he finds her body while thinking she's prepped for a romantic night of horizontal tango. Then you can skin him and wear him as a coat.

>>46836717
Its going to destroy horde armies, but might have some problems elsewhere. Sure you have some meltas and an exorcist but it just doesn't seem reliable enough. Overall the ten man units are fine, but I would consider cutting them to 5 anyways and adding another dominion squad in there. The bolter and flame fire should clear up a lot of units out in the open, but the problem will be popping the enemy transports to do so.

>>46837041
>oh, you shot me fifteen times with a plasmagun? well, i remove two models and the other eleven wounds just dissapear :^)
still better than a 3++ rerollable with a 3+++ FNP for the squad.

>>46836979
>>46836959
Nice, thanks.

>>46836996
Not bad, lad. I like it.

>>46836385

>manipulative

That's literally the entire point of strategy though. "I'm going to do X, in the hope he does Y." Is it manipulative to bait a unit out of cover? Is it manipulative to screen your tank with your guys? Maybe, but in that case manipulation is just a normal part of the game. If you want to play "run all of your guys headlong straight at the enemy without considering anything" that's fine, but expecting everyone else to do it is stupid.

>dick

That really depends on how you do it. If you spend 5 minutes measuring things while going, "HMMM I WONDER WHAT I CAN HIT LOL" that's pretty dickish since you're simply trying to bother them. Trying to outsmart someone is different.

>metagame

That's literally irrelevant, 90% of everything is metagaming. This is different from straight up lying about stats or models or changing your list or whatever. If you know not to send X unit against Y tank, or to use Z to tarpit A, or that B has ID versus C, you are metagaming. So what?

>>46836983
>/v/
That explains the flamebait that is army rankings. Sounds like something out of WoW where everyone claims their class is shit, and that everyone is OP bullshit.

Just mentioning whether Tau are marines are on par or better/worse than each other, will be met with the fury of Khorne himself.

>>46837059
no, it really, really is not. Its as bad, but its not worse in the slightest. That was bullshit of the highest magnitude, same as ranged D, decurions and grav. Balance is the same as it always has been

>>46836908
Nah, not an Eldar player, I play Guard.

I have no idea what the space elves say about shit

The Reclusiam Command Squad needing a dedicated Razorback transport is a real thorn in my not-Razorback-wanting side.

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>>46830513
525 points of expendable firing line collapsers

>>46836882
>Wonder whats going on
It's not much more than normal. That being said there was that awful debacle where the ITC kids came in. That was quite fun to watch, they got torn apart.

You can attribute it to slow days at work I guess. Of course these arguments are nothing compared to certain rules discussions on other websites.

>>46837091
>no, it really, really is not
yes, it really is. math out what a 3++ rerollable with a 3+++ FNP does to plasma guns (and pretty much anything).

>remove 2 models and 11 wounds disappear
turns into .5 wounds right now, probably dont even lose a model.

also eldary and tau are way worse now than they were, they were both always broken shit, but now they get to bring D weapons.

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Please be something good

Don't toy with my emotions gw

>>46836882
Nah, your just new.

It's no worse than when carnac focuses his attention on 40k General, unless you start chicken posting.

Spreaking of that, is there a chicken edit of the new OP image?

>>46837055
Makes sense. If I drop the regular squads down to 7 troops from 10 and get rid of the seraphims, I can field another duplicate of that dominion squad. Net loss of 6 units, jump capability, and two sets of hand flamers, but I gain 5 meltas and another immolator with TL multi melta. Plus another squad with Holy Fusilade, which is always good. Seems like a solid trade off.

>>46837183
>New Orkanaut squad formation
>1-3 of them just like Knights
>They all gain Furious Charge

>>46837183
Looking forward to the new Orruk release, Anon? :^)

>>46836413
My dark eldar have no trouble except for the knight.

>>46837183
Age of Sigmar. Don't give your hopes up.

>>46836400
but are 400 points free bullshit when 380 of the points are dead weight?

>>46837183
>Morkanaut rules for Renegade
>no new rules for 40k
You know it's true, Anon. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

>>46837245
AoS orks have zzap guns?

>>46837234
>>46837245
Dakka has never been used with fantasy before. Whatre they going to do, give orruks machine guns?

>>46837183
Nobs in a 'Naut formation
Makes the 'Naut a super heavy walker

>>46836510
get used to it. marines got another huge buff in lol broken psychic powers, a terminator captain that can take shield eternal and reroll ones on failed invulns, that can grant his squad (read:devastators) slow and purposeful, and more great formations. They are and will be lauded as OP bullshit eldar tau necron and marine tier.

You are going to have to learn to live with it or quit like eldar did.

>>46837223
yeah you do lose some bodies, but I think it'll make the list more versatile. Have fun purging heretics anon. And remember to take some Grey Knight allies later on!

>>46837155
>also eldary and tau are way worse now than they were, they were both always broken shit, but now they get to bring D weapons.
Not sure why this is a problem. D is a part of the game, and imperials shouldn't be the only ones who has it.

I am just waiting for my Dark Eldars to get it.

>>46837228

I'd rather them replace the rules for the Gorkanaut Krew with the vehicle damage table and, each turn, they gain they option to ignore a result on said table on a 3+.

Like turn one Ignore Crew Shaken on a 3+, turn two Ignore Weapon Destroyed on a 3+, etc.

But you'd probably run out of turns before you get to use it to it's fullest.