Exalted General - /exg/

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Do you use animating intelligences and if so, how?

Ex 3 core book – From RichT: PoD and PDFs on sale to the public this Wednesday, backers will get the discounted PoD links before that. Now on to prepping the actual deluxe traditionally printed files.

What are the changes you're most hoping for for the final release? No absurd wish-listing like 'completely changed craft' or 'no natural languages'. Realistic stuff.

>>46769840
Page numbers on the corners instead of in the middle.
The contents page to actually work.
Legible headings and section titles.
No shit font italics for long fluff paragraphs.
Fog shark not covering up text.
40 cakes uneaten.
Mamipulation.

>>46769876
That pretty much all seems like sensible stuff that I'd like to see myself and aside from the stylistic choices is all stuff I'd expect.

I don't know what they were thinking with those headers, but I hope they've been changed.

>>46769876
>Page numbers on the corners instead of in the middle.
>Fog shark not covering up text.
>40 cakes uneaten.
I think those are all confirmed, actually

>Mamipulation.
What?

>>46769840
No FTM sideboob on the cover and actually dark skinned characters. No horrendous art would be nice, but I shouldn't get my hopes up.

What are combos and why should I care about them?

>>46769900
I only listed layout stuff because you can't really argue about them like MA merits, bp/xp, or the specific wording of some charm. Their book layout is objectively sheet in easy to fix ways.

>>46769901
The character sheet has that typo in giant font right at the top.

>>46769911
Combos aren't in 3e, so you shouldn't care.

>>46769903
Well apparently some of the white washing, at least on the iconic characters in the Castes section, is a late mistake. They have the art with the correct colours, it was just washed out when it was added to the book.

Not sure what the fuss is with the sideboob though.

>>46769935
Prince Diamond on the cover, it's a bit insensitive to show even a little bit of a dude's tits when that's one of the specific parts they've got issues with.

>>46736403
Check out last thread for a really cool storytime about a solar's corruption.

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>>46769977
Woops, meant this specifically.
>>46738662

>>46769962
Does Prince Diamond actually physically identify as a man? I don't want to drag this thread into a batshit discussion about gender politics, but I thought the Delzhan philosophy is 'it's a man's body because I'm a man and it's my body'.

>>46770019
E-mails have gone out for discounted PoDs.

>>46770019
Fair point, maybe I am reaching for this specific character's situation in-setting, still a tacky thing to do if they're supposed to be about representation.

Yeah, let's get the thread back on topic; did you think you'd ever see 3e core release in your lifetime?

>>46770050
I've been continuously and inexplicably optimistic about the whole thing. I think the leak helped with that - though I understand why the developers hated it.

>>46769782
>>46769828
Is there a source, a website I can see on my own?

>>46770139
http://theonyxpath.com/all-pitched-out-monday-meeting-notes/

I didn't back enough to get a PDF, has it updated?

>>46770028
Unfortunately, no PDFs yet, though. I don't think I'm going to get one of PoD books; I've already got a Deluxe Edition copy ordered from my Kickstarter backing, and I don't really need two copies of the book.

>>46770019
That is more or less how it goes. If you want to be a man you have to dress like a man, act like a man and do a man's job, but beyond that the Dereth aren't really uncomfortable with their bodies or anything, not as a rule at least.

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>>46769997
There's more forms of corruption than just being turned into an Abyssal or whatever form of Infernal is going to replace Akuma, though.

Take, for instance, an artifact based off of the Cursed Sword from Monstergirl Encyclopedia:
http://monstergirlencyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cursed_Sword

It's a blade of vitriol-tainted moonsilver, fused with the spirit of a Perronelle demon, one of the Living Armors of Malfeas. When it's attuned, it physically fuses with the body of its user, with moonsilver flowing down their limbs and within their veins.

Attunement Evocation gives the weapon the Natural tag, as it fuses with the hand of its user, rendering it impossible to be disarmed without Crippling damage, at the cost of being unable to drop or stow it away, along with the first Evocation charm, which is an Elsewhere storage charm that causes it to flow up along the arm and inside the body of its user, leaving their hand encrusted with a clawed gauntlet of tainted moonsilver (making their Unarmed attack a Light Artifact weapon with the Natural, Lethal, Brawl, and Grappling tags). Further evocations allow them to begin manifesting artifact armor as it grows across more and more of their body, and as they cut down foes, their mind begins to fuse with the blade as well, awakening the primal, aggressive predatory instincts of the weilder until they can be truly said to no longer merely be an Exalt wielding a blade, but an Exalt who is a blade, or perhaps a blade who is an Exalt.

>>46770261
That's one of the interesting thing about the Dereth, if it was straight up wish-fullfilment it would be out of place with the setting. I mean, Delzhan society is horrible with a huge gender divide, but it's also arguably the place in creation with most transgender acceptance even though it isn't a perfect fit: if you identify as a woman but want to be a warrior for example, you're shit out of luck.

>>46770320
Because that's what the game needs, unbalanced artifacts tied to weird fetishes.

>>46770188
>I don't really need two copies of the book.
Well, some people think that their deluxe editions are too valuable to use them at a table/in play

>>46770188

If you're not using it, I have multiple people at my play table who want to buy the PoD. I already told one of them they can have my cheap PoD - I'm like you, I'll wait for the deluxe.

>>46769962
Oh yes, because a woman acting like a man is supposed to is so amazingly progressive.

Fucking hell. Call me when they aren't afraid to include a man who is accepted as a woman and is a complete stereotype or B-rated villain, then we'll talk.

>>46770414
What if we don't want to talk? Can we just not?

>>46770424
Sure, but if we're gonna talk, since apparently they want us to talk so damn much, can we at least do it the right way, instead of patting ourselves on the back how great it is that women are free to chose their role, without ackowledging the fact that men absolutely aren't?

>>46770496
But we were just having a conversation about how it's a good thing that they don't have it great, because it would be out of place for the setting. If they had it great there'd be nothing to fight for.

>>46770512
And the symptom of it not being great is apparently not the fact that men can't really choose to take on the role of a woman, because of the lack of a pretty important important feature, no, the symptom of it not being so great is the fact that in that culture a person can't be seen as a woman AND as a warrior.

Like, did we all collectively lose our minds here? Becauce this is third grade logic.

>>46770496
>>46770567
But Men can take the role of a woman, what are you talking about?

>>46770567
What the fuck, anon? Men or women can choose to become Dereth.

>>46770600
Can they? Do we actually have a good example for that? Or better yet, maybe a full-fledged iconic example of that? No of course not. And I think if you move your brain cells a little bit you'll understand why that is.

>>46770626
See, for all the talk of third grade logic you're apparently not big on reasoning. We know it exists, but we've only ever seen a single iconic Dereth. The fact that it's the wrong gender gets you all upset, but that doesn't make them the only kind of Dereth you imbecile.

2e comic had a male-to-female Dereth, I think.

>>46770626
>Can they?
Well, yes, I mean, we are explicitly told how the Dereth work, so there's really no question about it.

>>46770626
>Do we actually have a good example for that? Or better yet, maybe a full-fledged iconic example of that?
So...if we have one Dereth, we should have two, for both genders? No, anon, that would be dumb.

>And I think if you move your brain cells a little bit you'll understand why that is.
Because warriors are cool? Because the professions of Delzahn women aren't as good a fit for an Exalted PC? Even if the reason was that the devs were fine with presenting a woman who chooses to be a man but not a man who chooses to be a woman, it still wouldn't change the fact that the same option is open for both Delzahn men and women.

>>46770683
> Even if the reason was that the devs were fine with presenting a woman who chooses to be a man but not a man who chooses to be a woman, it still wouldn't change the fact that the same option is open for both Delzahn men and women.

And how exactly is that supposed to be achieved? I mean not to be raging right-winger, but there's like I said, an important feature missing there.

>>46770740
>And how exactly is that supposed to be achieved?
By making a fucking Dereth who is biologically a male, or introducing one as an NPC. Do you genuinely expect to get a canon example of literally every possible character concept? I mean, we aren't actually talking about a missing feature, we are talking about a thing that exists in the setting, but just doesn't happen to be featured among the handful of signature characters we have.

>>46770740
No feature is missing. What you're bitching about is representation.

So, how much changes do we expect from the final backer pdf?

> Yeah, let's get the thread back on topic; did you think you'd ever see 3e core release in your lifetime?

Yes, I figured it would be out by 2020 at the latest.

[considerthefollowing.jpg]
1e came out in 2001. 2e came out in 2006. In 2012, 3e was announced "coming this year", which looked like a reasonable interval from people who should by now have some experience and know what they're doing.

Schedule slip to 2013. Progress bar on their site 2/7... 4/7... 3/7... 5/7... slip to 2014... 6/7... 7/9... 8/9... 9/10... slip to 2015... what the fuck is wrong with these guys, how do they not know how many steps are involved in making a product that they've made two versions of already? ...schedule site now a noncommittal "on the horizon".

It just feels so utterly *surreal*. I blame that Sidereal charm that makes an organization get nothing done.

>>46770862
>how do they not know how many steps are involved in making a product that they've made two versions of already
Because the people making it have never made a core book before and they completely reworked the system halfway through.

I mean yeah, it's a comedy of errors but I don't blame them for Morke's illness and changing the mechanics because I'm pretty fond of the mechanics we got.

Still think that the person in charge of art and layout is terrible though.

>>46770860
Minor stuff, mostly corrections. Hopefully some clearing up on martial art rules.

Looking back on my latest exalted 2e experience as I wait for 3e to roll in and be different. (?)

> 2 years ago, acquaintance of mine starts a game of Exalted 2e
> 5 people originally join: Chronicler Guy (me) playing Lunar Smartass, Comcast Guy (whose internet is crap) playing Lunar Brute, That One Guy (famous for using an explicit monstergirl pic as his Lunar reference once) playing Abyssal WTF, Chick Guy (who only plays female characters) playing Solar Thief, Sidereal Guy playing Sidereal Sidereal
> Sidereal Guy shortly drops out
> Irate Guy joins with big-mouth-bigger-DV Dawn Caste
> Original ST gives up after a while
> Other 4 players are somewhat unhappy
> Chronicler Guy talked into taking over
> Comcast Guy drops out because he can't participate much
> Chronicler Guy now running STPC who gets into love affair with Chick Guy's PC
> Original plot wraps up. It was something about a haunted church, but it was kinda lost in the shakedown of who is actually going to be in this bloody thing
> Chronicler Guy now running game for Chick Guy, That One Guy and Irate Guy, figures he might as well put out call for new players as new chapter opens
> Postsalot Guy joins with a mortal beastman
> Postsalot Guy has high Mentor background representing his Lunar sire, figure that will be the actual character
> nope.jpg
> Postsalot Guy's mortal now moral compass for the group
> yep.jpg
> Circle now consisting of Lunar Smartass, Solar Thief, Abyssal WTF, Solar Dawn, mortal conscience goes walking the earth
> see DB sorcerer setting himself up as warlord
> object to warlordism
> crush DB sorcerer
> see town wracked by plague
> nobody has Plague-Curing Method,
> circle decides to go around, this is not suitable adventure
> see multiple Dragon-Blooded tourists in tavern
> thief quickly toasts the Scarlet Empress
> DBs nod condescendingly, pay no more attention to respectful but ignorant mortal
(continued)

>>46771310
> continue walking the earth, see shadowland
> Abyssal-Lunar pair is lurking in shadowland plotting malicious business
> planning to bring regional peace by encouraging part-time militias while terrorising standing armies
> Solars do not put up with this, fight ensues
> circle loses due to splitting the party + insufficient DPS against regenerating Lunar
> antagonist Abyssal detaches Solar Thief's thumbs for use in extortion
> party Abyssal steals thumb jar
> antagonist Abyssal attempts to negotiate with prospect of restoring thumbs
> embarassing moment for all involved
> circle eventually extorted into aiding plan to bring regional peace
> let's get the heck out of here
> reach large city, hear rumor of manse
> STPC finally written out, "called away by Gathering"
> circle acquires manse
> it is solar's past life manse with clues to next one
> circle acquires 2 more manses
> solar thief starts a bakery and takes on apprentices
> solar dawn starts a dojo and finds a friendly geomancer
> That One Guy drops out due to player personal life issues
> hear rumors of raiding hordes in vicinity
> short on Survival and Ride, the solars join punitive expedition being organized by a DB there, rather than setting out on their own
> mortal assigned to keep watch on their business in city
> punitive expedition leaves
> DB visiting some place on diplomacy, hordes attack
> solar dawn seizes command of army meanwhile and fights them off
> solar dawn hides as DB returns
> solar thief poses as solar dawn to explain to DB what was going on
> DB uses (Revelation of Associates Hunch) on solar thief, gets very suspicious
> solar dawn receives interim officership
> DB takes detour by way of immaculate monastery
> DB invites important people in, sets trap for interim officer
> interim officer meets physical challenge by PUNCHING IT TO SHREDS when she thinks nobody is watching
> someone was
> solar dawn inflicts heavy casualties, but dies at immaculate monastery
(continued)

>>46771321

> solar thief runs in horror back from monastery to army camp, throws Husband-Seducing Demon Dance
> DB commander comes shortly after, dissent in ranks, army mostly following Solar for the present but unwilling to attack former commander who a) was decent and b) is a dragon on fire
> solar thief begins racing back to city
> DB commander sends Wind-Carried Words back to city which gets there first
> solar's bakery and apprentices impounded
> Solar Gryphonrider shows up, joins circle (by now very loose "circle")
> apprentices rescued from hostage situation
> DB commander shows up with monks
> circle flees to manse, hides out there for a while
> during Calibration, when things slip through cracks, soulsteel airship falls in from navigating the Wyld, crashlands on manse
> wacky hijinks as party figures out how to communicate negotiate with extracreational visitors from "lost colony" out in the Wyld, learn of ecosystem of colonies in former-creation and the craft they use to travel there, clad in soulsteel to repel raksha
> loyalist abyssal antagonist shows up and wants in on this whole "soulsteel airship" thing
> friendly sidereal shows up and wants "what is going on, let me join you and make report", only semi-joins circle
> (this sidereal soon gets written out and the player switches to a new character, then quits again later after hearing the ST's political views and not liking them)
> player of solar thief expresses interest in new character
> at prospect of having no characters left who were original members of this farce, I decide to reboot game
(continued)

>>46771351
> now they're pirates: Solar Captain, Solar Gryphonrider, Temporary Sidereal, Mortal Liasioin (however you spell that, it's an ambassadorial thingy from an Elder Lunar in the region)
> raid city, acquire loot, acquire price on head
> hear about larger bounty for capturing live river dragon
> punch out river dragon and drag it downriver
> bounty person offers even larger bounty for visiting pocket universe and capturing even bigger weird monster there
> head into pocket universe, punch giant monster, it turns into giant jellyfish, ow ow ow
> eventually punch it out and drag it back
> hear about prophecy from Sidereal, visit obscure village, solarize it into solar cult
> glorious WTF moment ensues en route: sidereal wants signature on petition, convinces captain to pray and ask for the Sun's signature, captain gets 14 successes on prayer roll
> on the spot, petition disappears, comes back a minute later with signature
> except wait a moment, this isn't the Sun's signature, this is "secretary to the office of the Unconquered Sun's stuff, on behalf of the main god running the office of the Unconquered Sun's shit"
> sidereal very happy about having gotten high-essence god's signature
> solar captain needs a fucking drink
> gryphonrider drops out
> sail downriver a bit
> (about here is where Temporary Sidereal was replaced by Temporary Godblood)
> infernal antagonist shows up, trolls solar in middle of public prayer-speech
> instant hate between solar and infernal
> infernal aligns with one side in nearby war, solar with other side
> mortal's Lunar mentor drops in, exchanges information, warns about Wyld Hunt incoming soon
> war rages for a bit
(continued)

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>>46771380
> sailing into latest battle
> captain of nearby ship is traitor
> wyld hunt incoming
> abyssal shows up trying to rescue mcguffin godblood from wyld hunt (read: kidnap for own purposes)
> lunar shows up trying to be also helpful
> many-way battle, only person missing is the infernal
> abyssal offers to "save" ship now under heavy fire from wyld hunt sorcerer and archers on cloud platform
> lacking a sorcerer, solar captain accepts
> abyssal necroports ship to underworld
> Temporary Godblood drops out over political disagreement
> solar captain has shouting match with abyssal
> solar captain's player drops out, silently disappearing
> I am now running game of Exalted for one person not even playing an exalt
> Beastman Quest: Underworld Explorer

And that's about where I stand now.

>>46771310
>famous for using an explicit monstergirl pic as his Lunar reference once
Well, where's the link? I don't see the link anywhere, you must have forgotten it.

>>46771486
>Well, where's the link?

This is /tg/, you want /d/, ask for Alipheese.

>>46770330
Comparing the Dereth to trannies seems a bit disingenuous to me. Gender is a social construct in Delzahn society and is more a descriptor of your social role. Men aren't men because they have penises, they're men because they fight, hunt, and do all the other things expected of the masculine role in their society. I never got the feeling that Diamond thinks of herself as FTM. I fully expect that if Diamond ever gets to go home she will find a nice feminine man and make him her bitch.

>>46771619
No, I want to know which image in particular, I don't need help finding Monstergirl pics.

>>46771648
The problem is that women's role is to, big surprise, have babies, which men can't really do, now can they? So all it actually boils down to is women being able to do men things and men being locked in doing men things.

>>46771739
Have you actually read Scavenger Sons?

>>46771739
Except that's wrong.

>>46771768
>>46771752
I think this is actually some serious trolling at this point. Someone's probably trying to bait stupid drama about delzhan/transgenders.

>>46771768
So who's role is it exactly do have babies, given the fact that you can only chose from two?

>>46770677
>MTF Dereth in 2e

can confirm, comic amounts to a foreigner asking for directions saying "Ma'am", dereth turns around, foreigner says something like "sorry don't know the local customs, didn't realise you're a man", Dereth's bodygaurd be all like "Nigga, the fuck you call her?!"

>>46771884
>but does he have babies?
>help, I have brain problems

>>46771833
Children are a shared responsibility. Physical sex is only tangential to ones social role in Delzhan society. If you're physically female but socially male I imagine that, other then feeding newborns, most responsibilities for raising your children fall to your 'wife'.

>>46771901
What?

>>46771800
In the choice between baiting drama about transgenders and baiting monstergirl pics, I choose "tell me about flurries".

I recall the devs were quite firm that they wanted flurries to die in a fire so that you didn't have to wait through fourteen ten-step resolutions before you got to your turn.

I see the latest pdf has flurries anyway. How flurry-y are they?

>>46771833
You know it takes more than just women to make babies right?

>>46771985
You can't have more than one attack without charms is what they mean, pretty much. There are now strict rules on what kinds of actions you can take in combat.

>>46771985
Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure you'd be doing quite well to get 5 attacks in a turn, and more importantly they aren't 10-step things no more.

>>46771739
Yes, it is a big oversight that Delzahn men can't get pregnant even if they choose to become Dereth while Delzahn women who become Dereth get to prance around impregnating women. Oh wait, no, that's completely wrong. Here's the thing, anon: much like the role of men in any society isn't actually restricted to producing and dispensing semen, the role of women isn't restricted to giving birth. There are behaviors and professions that the Delzahn culture associates with women, others it associates with men, and these behaviors and professions are what actually form the gender roles in that society.

>>46772035
Except the problem is that you can't realistially associate giving birth with men, because they can't do that.

>>46771985
Real multiattack flurries are something you can only do through Charms, and these Charms aren't really spammable.

>>46772035
Stop replying to the bait.

>>46772058
Yeaahhh I'm going to have to admit that I don't have no clue what you're talking about, and I think it's safe to assume that you have no clue what you're talking about either. I mean, your post seems to be pretty much entirely irrelevant to what I said. Yes, men can't give birth. Yes, women can't become father. No, giving birth isn't all there is to the role of women, and no, fathering children isn't all there is to the role of men.

>>46772013
>You can't have more than one attack without charms is what they mean, pretty much.

This sounds like it has done fuck-all to resolve the problem, since a) Solars, the default protagonists, are piles of charms, and b) 2e's problem on this score wasn't Bob flurrying eight mundane attacks, it was Bob throwing eight-attack Iron Whirlwind.

>>46772026
>Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure you'd be doing quite well to get 5 attacks in a turn, and more importantly they aren't 10-step things no more.

>>46772064
>Real multiattack flurries are something you can only do through Charms, and these Charms aren't really spammable.

Iron Whirlwind Attack in 3e seems relatively spammable for 5m,1wp and a flurry of #(lowest Physical attribute) attacks. Two die stunts still restore willpower, and 5 motes now recover automatically every round. Am I missing something? Mandatory heavy expenditure on defense charms, perhaps?

Glad to hear 10 steps are gone.

>>46772092
well, you got half of it right. Fathering children is indeed not all ther is to the role of men, in fact that's the least that there is to the role of men. The role of men is that of a protector and provider, which is why, people with vaginas who can have babies, can also engage in that role. Hoever the role of a woman IS giving borth. That's the baseline of what it means to be a woman in any ancient society, anything else is at best a bonus, much like the ability to father children is a bonus and sometimes even a liability for men, because after all one man can impregnate a woman every 15 minutes or so. But a man can't have babies.

So in reality, in that great and progressive society, what you would have is men doing men things, women doing men things, and some women doing men things. Men doing women things is not something you'd see, because the bare minimum of doing women things is not met.

And that's what the discussion about Dereth should centre around, if we're supposed to have one at all.

>>46772196
2 dice stunts are not as common as you think you are. Plus 5m is your mote regen for the turn gone before excellencies, damage boosters or anything spent on defense.

It is absolutely not spammable without a shitton of charms supporting it.

>>46772202
Delzahn definition of gender roles =/= gender roles in ancient society

>>46772236
Yeah I'ma have to call bullshit on that because nothing about the Elzahn, given their portrayal within the setting, should allow them to behave in any other way.

Seriously, how are they suppose to form a society that even could behave in any other way? Are men somehow capable of having babies? Do they, like, have sorcerers for days who can do sexual-reasignment surgery for any men who wants to be Dereth? Because otherwise I don't see it.

>>46772058
But, and this is important, the Delzahn can because to them men could well have vaginas and women could well have dicks. They probably aren't associating biological thing's by gender.

>>46772196
Iron whirlwind is a decisive. Decisive spend your initiative to do damage. Going below 0 initiative, which is what happens when you take withering damage, crashes you. When you're crashed, your hardness drops to 0, you can't do decisives, and a bunch of charms stop working.

The price of 5m 1wp+decisive is "I have just spent a bunch of resources and put myself at the threshold of being crashed."

You'll have to farm up initiative with withering attacks, which for 99% of builds can't be flurried, to do another iron whirlwind. While trying not to lose more than you gain.

>>46772196
>Two die stunts still restore willpower
Two-die stunts are also uncommon. They're defined as stunts that particularly stand out in a scene, and your every action can't particularly stand out as your actions are part of the 'baseline' potential 2-point stunts are compared to. You can't just 2-point stunt your every action.

>>46772202
Okay, so at this point it is pretty clear that you are just trolling, but why on Earth should the discussion on Dereth be centered around a bunch of assumptions that, even if they were true in the real world - which is highly debatable but not something that should be debated in an Exalted thread - are definitely not true in the Creation?

>>46772272
That makes absolutely no sense for a nomadic society in a bronze age world. Their society would die out in a decade.

They've gotta have some serious auspicious protection going on if they can actually keep this up.

Durgledzells are bait, but they touch on a topic I've been wondering for a while about the philosophy of Exalted.

On the mortal, individual scale, the developers seem to be going to great lengths to depict a sort of mutant that is verging on the inhuman in its New Soviet Man-like flexibility and adaptability to a wide array of social organizations and rearrangements.

But on the Exalted scale, it's all hubris and nemesis and "you have overreached! aiieeee".

What gives? And how Earthlike are the humans of Creation supposed to be, anyway?

>>46772271
>how are they suppose to form a society that even could behave in any other way?
You'd know if you'd read the book.

>Are men somehow capable of having babies?
The ones with vaginas can, yes.

>>46772271
>Because otherwise I don't see it.
Yes, but, and this is important, this failure to 'see it's is entirely on you.

>>46772304
How the fuck would a small minority of people choosing to assume the role of the other gender lead to their society dying out?

>>46772304
The men-women just find cute women-men to knock them up, anon. It is not that complicated.

>>46772271
Most of them go with the role of their biological sex and the people who adopt the other role have to wear a grey cloth identifying them, I think.

Most women identify as women and do normal babymaking. Most men identify as men and knock women up. But when a woman wants to fight or a man wants to do sewing and shit nobody raises a fuss, they just say "cool, just wear the right clothes and do the right things and we'll all call you a man/woman"

They're actually way more stringent about gender roles than other societies. You can't fight without being a man. Period. Want to fight? You're a man, then.

>>46772324
>What gives? And how Earthlike are the humans of Creation supposed to be, anyway?

It varies with the writer. Your mistake is in thinking White Wolf has anything vaguely resembling a coherent policy on this score. That's how they got a game which packed inventing the microscope and studying cell biology alongside "science is a lie" and charms defying reality by containing atomic bomb levels of bullshit magic power. Humans in Creation are magically well-functioning tumblrgenders when written by a tumblrina, and they're not when they're not. Clear?

>>46772363
Except baby making apparently, for some reason that's something the Delhzan, unlike any ancient society, don't seem to care about that much.

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Maybe I'm diving too deep here, but I've been watching some Star Trek DS9 recently. Anyone think it'd be interesting to treat exaltations as kinda the same as trill symbionts, in regards the whole social/identity consequences of carrying multiple lifetimes' experiences and memories?

How much does someone feel obligated to past life commitments? How much do you believe yourself to be the same person as the previous host? It seems like it'd be interesting stuff to talk about or to mess with.

>>46772363

Indeed. Delzahn gender roles are insanely strict, to the point that they'd be considered rigid even by the standards of somewhere like present day Saudi Arabia. It's just the cultural release valve is that when you reach adulthood and do your rite of passage you get to choose which set of gender-rules apply to you.

>>46772404
Anon, why do you keep making things up? Why do you keep bringing up these made up claims about the Delzahn to people who obvious have read the damn books?

>>46772304
Well for one they haven't been really nomadic in a very long time. In fact they've been a highly prosperous city state allied with the world's largest empire for literally hundreds of years. They really aren't all that worried about losing their women to war or the harsh desert or whatever.

It'd be wonderful if conversation could be restricted to only people who have read certain books. Sure, there'd be less conversation but there'd be fewer ignorant people coming in to troll.

>>46772449
And, just to make things clear to the dense anon who keeps talking about the Delzahn despite clearly not having read anything about them, *vast majority choose their own, biological gender*. A few do not.

>>46772488
I like it when people who haven't read the books come here to ask questions. I don't really like it when people who haven't read the books come here to make misinformed arguments while ignoring the corrections made by people who have read the books, though.

>>46772525
Maybe I'm just burned out on people posting picture of their waifus and asking a thousand questions that could have been resolved by reading the setting chapter.

Which Caste would best fit Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures?

>>46772587
Sidereal, Chosen of Secrets.

>>46772615
My god that would be funny.

>>46772574
Oh, sure *that* is annoying. People who obviously have read some basic material asking questions rather than reading through two editions worth of books, or even the highlights of 2E, are fine as far as I'm concerned. Seeing people who are new to Exalted showing interest is nice. The annoying thing about the kinds of questions that could be solved by reading the setting chapter of the core isn't that they're stupid question, but that they're, sort of...apathetic questions, I guess? I mean, if there was actual interest behind them, the anon in question would've presumably read *something*.

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>>46772668
The worst is when people ask how to stat out someone from Fate Stay Night.

It's always Gilgamesh. Every. Fucking. Time.

>>46772615
>"ONE MORE THING! Why does the universe not make it so that my stock arrives on time?"

>>46772708

How do I stat out Archer?

>>46772788
>twin swords
>bow
>armor
>fire imagery
>unhappy because he spent his life chasing a lie
Archer is an Immaculate monk

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>>46772708
Stat me :^)

>>46772867
2CD, probably a Warden Soul.

Speaking of demons, what happens when a 3CD is in more than one place at once? Does he split or share his motepool? If one is fighting in Creation, does he get tired in hell? If he gets hurt, does the other him flinch, or become unhappy?

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>>46772867
I know her

PDF when?

>>46772432
That depends a lot on the society you're looking at. At one end of the extreme, modern society mostly knows about the DBs, who don't have "exaltations" in the same way that celestials do. At the other end, the First Age Solar Deliberative continued for thousands of years assuming that whoever has X exaltation will be the ruler of X portion of Creation, and the host doesn't really matter.

I can definitely imagine, at high hubris, Solars deciding they know better than the Unconquered Sun about whether a given host is worthy of Exaltation; if a new host with an inconvenient personality turns up, better to arrange for them to die and be reincarnated into someone better. After all, you wouldn't want to be stuck with someone who disagrees with you for millennia, would you?

But that's society. Whether an individual exalt agrees with society's interpretation is up to them. Some Exaltations carry more memories from their previous host than others, so individual players can choose whether they like the idea and take Past Lives as a merit, or Throwbacks as a flaw.

Regardless, there will be some people who care about an Exalt's previous host, and some who don't. The Eclipse iconic from 2e, Swan, has the Exaltation held by Desus the incomparable douche in the First Age; his Lunar Mate, Lilith, is still alive, thousands of years old, and holding a grudge. Poor guy.

>>46772958

It's true co-location, yes. The two bodies are one and the same being, so Ligier-the-Green-Sun-in-Hell and Ligier-the-Smith-Master-in-Creation share the same mote pool and life force and all that good stuff.

>>46773329
What about sensations? Would Jacint trip up, misspeak and make the wrong bridge in Malfeas if the Mask of Winters cut his arm off in Creation?

>>46773368

That would depend on the Demon, I think. Some are tougher than others, and the two minds are clearly "big" enough that the two bodies can perform completely different actions without disrupting the other too much.

I'd be inclined to say: Under normal operation, even regular combat, the two bodies can generally keep their shit together. If you do something uncommon or horrible, like wounding Ligier's soul or giving him a task that challenges even his legendary skills, then the Green Sun might flicker or surge.

>>46772432
>>46773303

There's kind of a weird player/fluff separation about it. There aren't any mechanics, outside specific cases like taking the Past Lives merit or suchlike, that require players to make their past lives relevant. In-setting, however, there are a lot of fluff materials where celestial exalts are treated as being legally and morally a continuation of their previous incarnation, especially by gods and elder exalted.

I guess, in order to secure against social upsets whenever a Celestial died in the first age, it became the law and custom of Heaven and the old realm that exalts were considered to be continuous legal entities? And then that just became tradition?

I think it'd be interesting to have an interpretation where the exaltation itself is sort of half a person in its own right, though.

>>46773420
>>46773329

I think a certain extra level of immortality is afforded by bilocation, and the bodies count injury and death separately. Like, if you cut off green-dude-Ligier's arm in some way that he can't grow it back, then the next time he shows up in that form, he'll still have his arm gone. But, nothing will have happened to this other forms.

And if you kill green-dude-Ligier, there's probably some sort of serious overall spiritual injury, but his other forms will still be alive and able to do whatever they do, he just won't be able to be green-dude-Ligier any more. If you want to kill Ligier, you'd have to kill ALL the Ligiers.

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>>46769997
My first screencapped storytime.

Feels good man.

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>>46770343

I see nothing wrong with this.

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>>46771884
>mfw my last character was a Dawn who specifically got into fights with Delzahn because he didn't give a shit about their fruity culture and the whole lot of them were such touchy cunts he could set them off with a few words

>>46773882
Did you keep a tally of the number of fruitbats you clobbered?

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>>46773736
It's because you did well Abyssal-kun. Relish in this acomplishment and don't forget to keep us updated on how the story goes from there. Anju x Truth is best ship.

>>46774143

Anybody know roughly when the pdf will be around tomorrow? Is it usually around noon Eastern?

>>46774171

And forgot to remove the link in quick reply :/

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>>46774053

Nah, they just got added to the running total of "Holy shit thats a lot of defeated/dead people".

>>46774248

Are you going to post that picture every day until 3e Lunars comes out?

>>46774171
The official pdf for backers, or the pirated versions for this thread?

>>46774287

They will roughly be the same and you know that. But I meant the buyable one on drivethru which will also be the updated one for backers.

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>>46774280

I haven't been in these threads in weeks Anon. I only stop by to confirm E3 isn't out yet and occasionally to dump art.

Sorry you've got a hateboner for whoever posts that, but it ain't me.

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>>46774322

Can you make mundane weapons with that Disguise/fate bullshit Infernal have?

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>>46771425
Sounds fun bro.
Makes me wish for a game.
Never played Exalted, heh.

>>46773251

Apparently tomorrow, according to Kickstarter. You've waited three years, you can wait another 24 hours.

>>46771619
>>46771685
At least author?

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Was this posted here yet?

>>46774779

Yeah I had a chuckle at that.

>>46774779
I'm not sure if he's trying to imply that himself and the devs are also unhappy with how long this has taken or not.

>>46774728
>3E Kikestarter.jpg

>>46772227
Eh, we dropped 1dies completely and just use 2 and 3 dice stunts.

Re:multilocations, the hitboxes, motepools, etc are separate and if you kill something it's just that instance/fragment; to completely kill Ligier par exemple, you'd have to do it in Malfeas.

So anyone come up with a First Age history for their characters last life? Is it interesting?

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>>46774954
>Re:multilocations
That is in our game, at least.
Obviously not concrete and universal.
Just in case someone's triggering.

>>46774966
First Age equivalent to popping wheelies - jumping on to charging horses and striking a fabulous pose.

My guy did this so dramatically and impressively that he exalted as an Eclipse Solar.

He exalted in lands ruled by a Night Solar and within moments she was at his side, plying him with tales of supremacy and the rules of his life to come as she guided him to Meru.

They lived as a power couple until the Usurpation, where he died fighting 1 vs 1 million with his armies at is side and her cursing the names of the Sidereals.

Fast forward to the present day and Bumfuck McGee receives guy's exaltation. he's hyped as fuck, until E10 Night solar turns up, asking questions he can't possibly answer and declaring that she has loved him for his thousand year sleep.

Shit gets real when your waifu loves you, rather than the other way around.

>>46774954
>Eh, we dropped 1dies completely and just use 2 and 3 dice stunts.
Well that's a terrible idea.

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>>46771685
>I want to know which image in particular
>>46774758
>At least author?

I don't know. It was years ago and I only remember it being PG-18 for tentacled vagina and something else.

Which, to be fair and to get back on topic of Exalted, is easily available to Lunars at character generation. This thanks to the Hybrid Body Rearrangement errata, which is best viewed as a stealthy way of giving Lunars build-a-beast customized shapeshifting:

> The character may transform part of her body, producing any mutation she desires, so long as the mutation is based on her spirit shape or a shape in her heart's blood library. Producing a pox or deficiency costs 1m, an affliction or debility costs 2m, a blight or deformity costs 3m, and an abomination costs 4m. These motes are not committed, the Lunar may simultaneously wear as many mutations as she wishes, and the mutations last as long as the Lunar desires. Such mutations do not recede when the character's anima flares to the 8m+ level.

Protip: if your ST gives you trouble about the heart's blood library and won't let you start with a squid form, you can hunt a jellyfish instead for tentacles, those are much more widespread. If the ST is a hardass about "those have thread stingers, not mutation-style tentacles", then hunt snails. Pic related.

>>46775118
>until E10 Night solar turns up
how

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>>46775118
>maximum yandere

>>46775468
Predominantly Nights escaped the Jade Prison. them and exactly one of every other splat so that people can play a perfect circle during the shogunate.

She was alone for a long-ass time

>>46774954
>Eh, we dropped 1dies completely and just use 2 and 3 dice stunts.
Why would you do that?

If muskets and more importantly pistols were added into the setting what charms should be added for their use? Shards charms are not bad but I am unsure if I should attempt to port them into 3e's archery.

>>46775681
Someone mentioned just using thrown charms for pistols and archery charms for longarms a few threads back.

Does Sanctaphrax post on /exg/? Never seen him respond to a comment about his Craft rewrite, but I've seen very similar posts to http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/868640-i-am-mad-the-civil-thread-for-voicing-displeasure?p=868677#post868677 on here.

>>46776493
He's taking those fuckers to task in there. Good on him.

>>46776606

>You clearly have big issues with how Holden communicates, and John too I'm guessing, and you feel as you feel as is your right. I understand, there have been a lot of bumps on the communication road. From my PoV, though, that's a learning process for them as they grow into the developer role. So, if you want to be offended at Onyx Path, or at me personally, for not firing them, then I guess you will be, because I did not fire them off of EX3.

See you in the Godbound general boys.

>>46776606
I love how it has now became an accepted fact that Holden and Hatewheel are a couple of incompetent, anti-social twats who can't be trusted with a tamagochi, much less with the fate of an entire franchise.

The sounds of phones ringing is defeaning. Do you know who that might be? That's right. It's all of us. We called it.

>>46775523
Why not?
1d's for going beyond "I hit it with my sword", 2d's for using the scenery and everyone does it in our group

>>46777301

Because that isn't what 2d's are, anymore.

2-die stunts are the highlight of the entire scene.

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>>46776493
>that whole thread

First Movement of the Demiurge

Can you make a 3 of a kind of 10s to create another 10 if you have Flawless Handiwork Method that let's 10s reroll?

>>46777671

I would allow it, I think.

The difference probably isn't very significant, statistically.

(The real work-horses of the power tree are Flawless Handiwork and Experiential Conjuring, really.)

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>RichT: ... Final PDF ... on DTRPG tomorrow afternoon ...

Oh boy oh boy

>>46777671
what
3 of a kind?
I get FWM allows you to reroll 10s, so would FMotD repeat that allowing you to rereroll 10s?

>>46778367
First Movement of the Demiurge lets you convert a non-success to a 10 if you have a 3 of a kind of a success. 7s, 8s, etc. Flawless Handiwork Method allows you to reroll 10s while keeping their successes.

Let's say I roll 3 10s and some failure. I would reroll those 3 10s while keeping their successes so I'm at 6 successes. I rolled 3 of a kind of 10s, could I then convert a non-success to a 10? Which I would get 2 successes for and then reroll to whatever.

If this is the case it actually explodes the number of successes you can generate because 7s, 8s, and 9s, all generate more 10s which if you can then use to convert MORE non-successes to 10s it just kind of feeds in on itself really hard.

>>46778555
Yeah, it does. Also, if you get convert three non-successes into 10s, you get to convert another non-success into a 10 because you've gotten another three-of-a-kind.

I've been playing through some old DBZ games lately and it's made me realize that for all the over-the-top shit in Exalted, basically no character can actually reach that kind of absurd power. I'll never be able to Final Flash some cheeky Abyssal/Infernal/Deathlord/whatever (fuck, it's even gold to boot!) to death.

Honestly the lack of support Exalted has had for energy/ki blasting and over-the-top named special moves unique to each character is surprising, given how anime it usually is.

>>46779563
Someone hasn't looked at sorcery or the brawl tree.

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>>46779563

For all the retarded shit MA usually does, I'm honestly surprised no one ever ripped off DBZ/Street Fighter for an MA style or some Brawl Charms (well, beyond Ascendant Battle Visage).

You'd think tossing essence based death blasts would be easy given how low in the Melee tree that is.

>>46779690
Well Kamehameha is basically Death Ray.

>>46779563
Some of the shit in Dreams back in 2e came a bit close. The original version of Torrent of Inner Light was basically a Kamehameha. In 3e though, no, they've scaled things back a good deal.

>>46775522
Would it make sense to have 4 first age solars and a lunar during the shogunate, fleeing the post-usurpation clean up?
Then having my PC newly exalted Night join them, learn the ropes, see them die, then run away to the wyld and borders, travelling the world and avoiding wyld hunts until the present time?
I just kinda wanted to make an old solar that's been around for a few hundred years (not even wanting the essence bump), but the setting does limit your options for older solars.
Do you guys think I could have that backstory without it being dumb or ruining the setting?

>>46779690
Apocalypse Flare Attack.

>>46780160
Is that the one that requires you to first be attacked by somebody else's energy based attack?

>>46779690
Could refluff Thrown as essence blasts.

>>46780216
Is Spirit Weapons still a thing? While that charm technically gave you essence-formed weapons, it could easily be fluffed instead as energy blasts with the damaging traits of thrown weapons.

So, Exalted 3e finally goes out the door on April 20th, 2016.

Does anybody remember the exact day it was first announced? I seem to remember the Kickstarter actually wasn't the first mention of it.

>>46780289

Quick google looks to say July 24thish 2012.

>>46774779
it's not even worth posting the ashton kutcher gif any more

>>46780340
Hm, so not quite four full years of this shit. Amazing.

Could you create a sorcerers working to make people just kinda ignore solar exaltation in a small city area? Like, they see a caste mark or even bonfire and just go "huh, that person sure is glowing. Ah well, not gonna let it ruin my day!" and keep moving

Can mortals learn sorcery? If so, how? If they can't learn charms, how can they learn Terrestrial Circle of sorcery?

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>>46779754
Except you don't charge as fast.

>>46779690
You know that's actually a pretty sweet idea, and I'd try it out if not for my complete incompetence when it comes to Homebrew.

>>46779965
I'm not just talking about that stuff, I mean the stuff like the ultimate attacks, such as pic related (I just recorded it with PCSX2).

That entire explosion is nearly the size of the entire Blessed Isle. Goddamn. If someone in Creation could muster that kind of strength it would be razed to the ground already.

Maybe the Primordials/Yozis could do stuff on that scale? But definitely never any Exalt, not even a First Age Solar.

I mean in the end it doesn't really matter since that's not the kind of stuff Exalted is going for, but it was funny to think about.

>>46780417

Sure. I don't see why not. Although mechanically if they are specifically looking for you they should get a integrity roll of some sort to try and see through it. Unless its like a Solar level working on a small enough area. The exact scaling should be up to your storyteller.

>>46780435

RTFM.

>>46779690
To me, this is part of Exalted's identity. No matter how high the power gets, you still have one foot in the old sword-and-sandals aesthetic. Besides, over-reliance on giant energy attacks is the mark of a shitty shonen, doubly so if it started with swords and fists.

>>46777301

Propably because those vastly reduced requirements make 2d-stunts about ten times more common than they're supposed to be in 3rd edition, which breaks the willpower system, which breaks every high power-high cost charm in the game as well as high-levelsummoning sorcery, which breaks the entire game.

Does that answer your question?

>>46776493
>>46776606
>>46776968
>>46777056
>>46777630
hahaha the way that they have so completely squandered the goodwill they had is so incredible if i hadn't watched it start to finish i wouldn't believe it

what a bunch of asshats

>>46780289
not even relevant because it's only being sold to the public to cover costs to pay for publishing because so many people asked for their money back

this is why they can't deliver to backers first like they promised

>>46780182
Not at Ess 4, i.e. with brawl supernal, then it just requires any ranged attacks, IIRC.

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looking at SINGLE-O POINT-SAMA SHINES-U INTO THE VOID-O style and its double attacks and Dex-to-damage stuff.

it very obviously wants you to make lots of high-value, high-risk decisive attacks with all its stuff but...what happens if you just don't?

per the rules, at some arbitrary point of being crashed, opponents just auto-lose. per the much more relevant rules, a crashed opponent is not much of a threat if you're launching two withering a round to their one and half their stuff isn't working because it's either perilous or because decisive.

what stops you from just being all-withering all-the-time as your fighting style, with SINGRU POINT-O or any other MA style?

>>46781119
Crash isn't indefinite, and never making a decisive attack means never inflicting a wound penalty.

>>46774966

Not First Age, but I'm thinking of making one of my Dawn's previous incarnations be a south western mercenary commander who kept his operations very low-key. He was a tactical genius, but conducted his operations very, very quietly, to the point that he's just a minor footnote of history books (if present at all) and only noteworthy for a few 'minor' engagements.

Those 'minor' engagements were in fact world-shaking battles at the edges of the world and civilization, waged against the fae and the dead. The only records of his actions (before he was finally tracked down and wiped by a Chosen of Endings) was a log written by one of his soldiers.

The current Dawn dude learned about this through past-incarnation memories and digging up the apocryphal records in a library. He's actually rather studious and cerebral for a firewand+bayonet murderman.

>>46781119
I don't like the rule that you can hit a crashed opponent for initiative. If they're in crash, you already have such an advantage over them that you can't get any more. I think that crashing an opponent should have a bigger effect, but hitting an already crashed opponent should have no effect.

>>46776493
Literally nothing that guy listed makes sense

Does a character need to know their opponent's intimacies to act upon them? Can he make an argument without actually knowing them, but still supported by them?

>>46781119
The rule isn't that they get removed from the fight for being crashed for too long, it's that they get removed from the fight when they cannot serve any useful purpose other than providing more initiative for beating on them.

Nonstop withering works fine against someone who couldn't challenge you anyway, but a Solar with Melee Supernal could kill you with just the init from resetting.

>>46780124
Anyone care to chime in?
I can run it by my ST, but I'd rather have the opinion from a group of people with far more exalted experience.

>>46781538

No; if you see a monk you can make a social influence predicated on the Immaculate Faith's tenets.

If his faith isn't as strong as you hoped it was, or he doesn't have such an Intimacy at all (or one that doesn't support your argument in particular, such as a monk who rejects certain aspects of the Faith), he can reject the influence as unacceptable.

>>46781563

Your ST/group is the only person whose opinion matters, and trying to bully him with "BUT THE INTERNET SAYS IT WAS COOL" is retarded.

>>46781635
I don't intend to screencap this as justification to my ST, it's for my own peace of mind that I'm not being a special snowflake with a terrible backstory.

>>46781728
You are doing a special snowflake with a terrible backstory, but that is the nature of tabletop RPGs.

Avoid Mary Sue and it might be OK.

>>46781902
I'm really not good at roleplaying, I thought of that backstory to explain why they're so old, but not from the first age, why they've been at the edge of civilisation for hundreds of years, why they feel guilt about failing their old circle, how they might be able to overcome that and find a new duty in protecting their new circle and stop running away.
If that's Mary Sue, I'll take your word and change it.

>>46782000
>If that's Mary Sue, I'll take your word and change it.
It's tabletop. Your audience is whomever's at the table. If they like the cut of your jib, it's fine. If they don't, you need to dial it back a bit.

>>46782000

Mary Sue is less about the particulars and more about one all important thing: how Right is the character?

Not just in a factual sense (though this can include it), but in terms of blame, bad opinions, etc.

If the character is completely Right about all things, they're definitely a Mary Sue. e.g. there's really nothing in their backstory where they're significantly at fault (or if there is, it's immediately justified by something--if only in the author's mind), there's no time where they were simply pig-headed and stupid about something they should have known, etc.

Good characters are Right about enough that they're sympathetic and there's reason to care about them, but not everything.

On the upside, true blue Mary Sue is almost impossible to do in an actual game unless your ST is complicit, since that level of Rightness usually involves the behavior of others, not just the character.

>>46782000

>Would it make sense to have 4 first age solars and a lunar during the shogunate, fleeing the post-usurpation clean up?

He was alive during the the Usurpation? He'd be around 1,500 years old then, wouldn't he? That'd make him insanely powerful. Also, it wouldn't make sense.

What you could do is create some sort of long lived god-blood that Exalted in the last year or so (as standard for PCs fresh out of chargen.) but if he's marked for Wyld Hunts then you'd need to explain how he avoided them (and maybe even Sidereal Death Squads) for so long.

>>46782118

Or you could have a newb Solar from the First Age who was Pressed Beyond the Veil of Time, or some such, and has only just emerged into the world.

Controls the power level, but ramps the special snowflakiness up to 11.

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>>46782118
>That'd make him insanely powerful
Okay, so...little bit of a twist. What if I told you he spent basically all of that time without training or fighting a lot of demons or anything, just touching scaly tail?

>>46780256

Spirit weapons is no longer a thing in 3e

>>46782204

>What if I told you he spent basically all of that time without training or fighting a lot of demons or anything

I'm not buying it, but I'm not the one you should be trying to sell it too. Ask your ST.

>>46780753
RichT was being pretty reasonable and all Sanctaphranx's complaints boiled down to "my fee fees are hurt"

Dude is retarded

>>46782118
>>46782194
Actually those were just their original circle mates, the PC is the post-usurpation newly exalted Night.
Also, would it make more sense to have the circle be post-usurpation too, but older, to avoid all the mess of first age knowledge and the big usurpation secret?

>>46782204
I'm keeping them at essence 1 because despite traveling secret hero stuff, physical training, and surviving harsh edges of creation stuff, I don't think it's fair to give them a bump for that and it's best to keep them in line with the younger PCs.
No tail touching, sorry.

>>46781497

Nothing?

The kickstarter was done poorly though.

>>46782286

>the PC is the post-usurpation newly exalted Night.

How post is "post-usurpation?" Remember, that shit happened 1,500 years before the return of the Solars?

>>46769782
>cast mark over the hair
this triggers my autism

>>46782353
Shogunate, maybe just before scarlet empire, before, during or after the balorian crusade or contagion.
Or it could be a little after the scarlet empress takes over.
Mainly I just wanted several hundred years on them, but less than say a thousand.
I was wondering what you guys would think is the most appropriate timeline.

>>46782440
It burns through whatever is covering it.

>>46782204
Solaris gain essence just from being alive long enough. Even if all he did was tap DAT ass for a few hundred years he'd almost certainly be essence 5 by now. He just slowed Dow his progression not stopped it.

>>46782440

You know any caste mark bright enough to shine explicitly shines bright enough to be visible through a helmet, right? The hair wouldn't block it.

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>>46782250
Seriously, Sanctaphrax is a fucking faggot. The "rape-ghosts" were not rape-ghosts and the fact that they had to address it at all just highlighted that 1) the general Exalted forum community is fucking illiterate and has never read the word "ravished" except in the dictionary they all hastily consulted, which I submit as empirical proof that there are no women in the Exalted fandom because even fucking Mother Theresa has had a look through her mom's pink-covers

and 2) we live in an age that is honestly too fucking retarded for them to ever publish Abyssals 2E. Should you go out of your way to upset people or shove sexual content where it doesn't belong? Absolutely not. But the LOVER CLAD IN THE RAIMENT OF TEARS is not a goddamn breach of human rights by existing as a fictional construct.

Morke was always an asshole and Holden turned into one right around finishing the Sidereal errata (probably when EX3 development started). Yeah, they need a forum-muzzle. That's fine, and I don't doubt that there have efforts to reign them in less authoritatively than they obviously need.

The community is also an asshole, though, they did in FACT turn just as bitter and nasty as the developers, and "this post" that S-fuck linked was completely appropriate and complete necessary. It would have been great to see the devs held to the same standard, but let's be real, they're pressured artists who bit off more than they could chew interacting, it's basically an ontological truth that they're going to be shit-dicks when criticized and a gag order works way better than hoping human nature will prevail - in both directions.

The rest is just...whimpering. I know it's tyranny and tyranny is despicable, but I think if they DID muzzle the devs, get an official PR rep, and just start blanket-banning anyone who's got a garbage mouth everyone would be better off for it. It almost works for RPGnet and RPGnet has like a thousand times the volume and dedication of assholes.

>>46782477
What would you say is the age limit for an essence 1 solar coward that ran away and did nothing?

>>46782456

>Or it could be a little after the scarlet empress takes over.

The Empress disappeared the same time the Solars returned. The Bull of the North Exalted before she disappeared because his shard didn't get stuck in the prison. But really you should ask yourself "What's the difference between a year, a decade, a century, and a millennium?" Especially if you didn't learn anything.

>>46782549
Yeah, that's a reasonable question.
I guess I wanted it to be at least a century or 2, a long time above a mortal lifetime, being alone and on the run.

>>46782642

Again I said at >>46782118 that you could easily have all that before you Exalted if you played a race of long lived beings, or as a mortal charcter who made a pact with a powerful being in exchange for a long life (and Sorcery). You could also play a character who can recall memories from non-Exalted lives, which would explain why you've learn nothing in so long; you HAVE learned, build you need to recondition your body every new life, effectively making you your own mentor. But the big one is "How did this character surive Creation for so long if the Wyld Hunt is after him?" Did he leave Creation? How did he survive the Wyld/Underworld/Demon City?

>>46776968
Feel free.

>>46782291
It bugs me that he cites Plague of Hats saying Holden shit-talks people in private when Plague keeps on shitting hard on people for liking Rolemaster and other shit too much all the time in grognards.txt

>>46782519
Something Awful was always a hypocritical shit-pile, given their complete inability to own up to stuff like Lowtax furiously defending the loli porn from a hentai game hosted on his front page.

>>46782831
From what I've heard, Plague of Hats went fucking retarded. He just vanished, dropped his obligations and went on SA to bitch about the devs and he complains about the devs bitching about other people?

I wish Rich Thomas wasn't wading into this. All the jerk about OP devs aside, he's always been pretty stand-up (if kind of obviously a generation or so behind the cool kids, his blog is 100% aging uncle) and I feel like he probably privately wonders what he's doing in life when what he's doing is keeping dreams alive. He has to work with the dev tools (aha, IT WORKS ON TWO LEVELS) he's been given.

I appreciate the at-cost POD, which is the only thing I'll be buying (I backed for a dollar). Not to punish OP but so that I'll have the budget room to specifically support their other projects, the ones by developers I trust and respect. I'm not boycotting Exalted, but I want to see them do fucking better than this. ANYWAY SCION 2016 GET HYPE

>>46782519
>Seriously, Sanctaphrax is a fucking faggot. The "rape-ghosts" were not rape-ghosts
The biggest outrage queens are, in point of fact, the developers themselves. I am quite cognizant of the definitions of 'ravish' and also recognize that it is indeed a euphemism for rape, even if that is not necessarily the best meaning. Which is why a good editor would probably recommend changing it.

>Morke was always an asshole and Holden turned into one right around finishing the Sidereal errata (probably when EX3 development started). Yeah, they need a forum-muzzle. That's fine, and I don't doubt that there have efforts to reign them in less authoritatively than they obviously need.
I believe they were, at one point, told to shut the fuck up. Sadly that doesn't appear to have stuck firmly.

>The community is also an asshole, though, they did in FACT turn just as bitter and nasty as the developers
I'm shocked. Shocked and dismayed to learn that a community that finds itself centered around a pair of douchebags swiftly becomes toxic.

>It almost works for RPGnet and RPGnet has like a thousand times the volume and dedication of assholes.
People still go to RPG.net? Color me surprised.

>>46782811
Yeah, I think any of that extended-life stuff is a bit too messy and special snowflake. I just wanted a solar a few centuries old that didn't mess with first age past life knowledge shit.
And them being exalted gives more justification for living that long on the run, than if they were a tweaked human.
They have Integrity-Protecting Prana for the wyld, a few dots of survival, a bunch of athletics and supernal stealth.

>>46782932
He quit a project mid-way with zero prior notice, after a few months of being impossible to contact. That was enough to make sure he'll never be working on an OPP project again, and you can tell how forgiving RichT is otherwise given the post here >>46776968

>>46782965
>I'm shocked. Shocked and dismayed to learn that a community that finds itself centered around a pair of douchebags swiftly becomes toxic.

Hahaha, are you seriously implying the community was a fucking field of flowers prior to Holden and Morke?

Shit, at least the game works now, compared to back then.

Ahahaha

>>46782978
What even set him off? Did he ever say?

>>46782965
>Which is why a good editor would probably recommend changing it.
There is no reason to change it, the implied meaning of both forceful erotica and also rape, is completly intended and also completly okay, because powers derived from a Deathlord, do not need to be ethical.
And the LOVER CLAD IN RAIMENTS OF TEARS, who is all about empty hedonism, can stand to have a rape charm or two.

>>46783026
He said it was rape-ghosts, except he also did the layout work for the Abyssals preview and didn't raise issues then, so...

I guess he just really, really likes that internet forum?

>>46783026

If I had to guess Hatewheel.

>>46783033
>reminder that the author of the WTF D&D article bitching about it quit being an admin on SA in a huff after people wouldn't stop being mad that the site hired a convicted child molester

>>46783008
>Hahaha, are you seriously implying the community was a fucking field of flowers prior to Holden and Morke?
I make no allegations about the quality of the community prior to. But I also express no surprise about toxicity begetting toxicity.

>>46783110
It was precisely as toxic as it was before, only people were bitching at Neph or John Chambers instead of Morke and Holden.

It was this toxic since 1E.

>>46782968

>Yeah, I think any of that extended-life stuff is a bit too messy and special snowflake

Are you a Sorcerer? Workings, and deals with devils. Are you rich? Buy Age Staving Cordials? Are you a thief? Steal Age Staving Cordials (note: this must be done daily IIRC).

Seriously though, pick up Sorcery using Bargain With Mara. Infernal Nobility could be all you need to survive in Malfeas. Workings again for long life. Realm knows who you work for which is why you are hunted in Creation but safe in Malfeas. No snowflake bullshit, no centuries old Solar who doesn't do or learn shit. Sorcery affords them decent amount of power, and so on.

But hey, if your STs okays what you suggest, then don't let any BadWrongFun faggot on 4chan give you shit.

>>46783033
>There is no reason to change it, the implied meaning of both forceful erotica and also rape, is completly intended and also completly okay, because powers derived from a Deathlord, do not need to be ethical.
>And the LOVER CLAD IN RAIMENTS OF TEARS, who is all about empty hedonism, can stand to have a rape charm or two.
I suppose it depends on how you're trying to offend the audience.

Again, given that Holden and Morke are the two largest outrage queens and SJWs involved, it's amusing that they would think it was okay to equip anyone with rape charms at this juncture.

"It's just a game!" rings pretty hollow after you've spent four years berating people for not being 100% on board with foxkin rights on Twitter. While, I'm sure, you were hard at work delivering Exalted.

Mhm.

>>46783162
I'm not saying the Exalted devs aren't hypocritical assholes.
I'm saying there is nothing wrong with rape ghosts existing as disctinct part of their specific narrative nieche.

>>46783162
Eh. They're pretty okay with media being crude or offensive even if they don't like GamerGaters or whatever.

But that's pretty much what OPP is, entirely, and it's smarter if they toe the line.

>>46783152
Yeah, I'm aware of those options for non-exalts, I just needed my character to have an old circle and to've been exalted for those few hundred years.
I appreciate everyone's help, I'll see what I can do.

>>46783147
Jon Chung won Exalted 2.0.

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>>46782965
>I am quite cognizant of the definitions of 'ravish'
No, you're not, no one is "cognizant" who isn't a slavering autist, and that would just invalidate the rest of your post, wouldn't it?

But you're still SOME kind of retarded, because - "rape is okay" anon aside - the best and MOST COMMON definition is that thing literally like nine out of ten women have their vaginas turn into microwaves canned peaches over, which is the bodice-ripper definition, a CONSENSUAL sexual encounter where there is probably a "soft" no but it is always clear that the man understands it's a soft no. To be clear, this is a FANTASY, and while it's a fantasy that sometimes comes true that's just tangential to Exalted. Exalted is also fantasy.

Only neckbeards - male neckbeards, mostly - would read rape into the particular Charm in question. It's just sexy ghosts being aggressive in a sexy way. The sex-to-live zombie was more disturbing, but also not rape.

Look, has Exalted historically had its Tumblr-problematic un-trigger-warned actual garbage? Yes. Lillun was legitimately disgusting, and while I understand there's a comic book market for that and the writer was a comic book artist, it should never have gotten past editing. These aren't sins to be lightly forgiven, either. Fucked up shit happened and people who left over it were mostly justified, you shouldn't stick with a game that makes you uncomfortable or contains art you are legitimately ashamed to have in your house.

But Onyx Path is pretty fucking far-left liberal with a LOT of attention to feelings and fears, and as much of a pair of shit-spewing HOLES as Holden and Morke can be, "rape apologists" is not amidst their list of personal failings. Abyssal 2E preview was 100% fine and did not need editing.

>shocked and dismayed
It's not really warranted to sink to their level as a community, but even if it WAS, an official effort to improve conditions is still fine.

>People still go to RPG.net?
Yes, all of them.

>>46783427
Different anon, somehow I'd managed to completely forget about that definition of ravish until you'd brought it up. I don't know why I felt the need to mention that, but there you go.

Also
>Abyssal 2E preview was 100% fine and did not need editing.

>>46782965
I still dont get why people were upset over rape ghosts. Like abyssals are almost explicitly the bad guy splat and the lover is most DEFIANTLY a bad guy, so having charms based on them that do bad things seems reasonable.

>>46776493

Never posted here before, thought I do lurk occasionally.

>>46782250

Of course it boils down to feelings. That's what the thread's about. Frustration and disappointment.

>>46782831

I'm not a Plague of Hats fan either, to be honest. But if he's telling the truth about how Holden acted in chat - and I expect he is - then that makes Holden a pretty lousy person.

Reflects badly on PoH too, of course; he listened.

>>46782519

The preview itself was only mildly creepy. Watching Holden try to defend it was much worse.

>>46783619
>Reflects badly on PoH too, of course; he listened.

It's not just that, it's the fact that he does the same exact shit /constantly/ and in public, with the justification that well, I'm a much better person than they are!

>>46783619
I agree with most of the stuff you said in that post. From you and others, it's nice to see them face some harsh criticisms to keep them to a higher standard even now that it's being released.

>>46783619
I have to ask, what is your beef with the Abyssals preview? Because as far as I saw, during all of that, it was just the usual blowhards getting triggered, and jumping on anything the devs say to get angrier.

Like when everyone lost it over the Nibovian wife in Numenera, and so on.

>>46783708

PoH might air dirty laundry, but as far as I know he's never spent hours calling someone I like a retard and mocking them with silly voices.

>>46783785
No, he totally does.

Like when he made that youtube video mocking some nerd's fanfiction.

>>46783777

Can you imagine a non-awkward non-creepy way to use Frozen Watchfire Embrace in a serious game?

I can't.

Also, when I read stuff like that, I wonder if the writers are building up to the second coming of the Phylactery-Womb. Exalted has a bad history with sex stuff.

>>46783785
Plague of Hats has done everything he's bitched about Holden doing. The only difference is that Holden did it for longer while PoH did it in public.

I don't see any way that PoH comes out better from this. Bitching about someone in privacy is a lot different from slandering them all over the internet.

>>46783839

Well it's possible I just haven't seen the worst of him (yet). But I don't know what youtube video you're talking about.

>>46783931
>non-creepy
>Abyssals
I dunno, guy, maybe Abyssals are allowed to be creepy? Maybe it's kinda their thing?

>>46783931
The ghosts make innuendo and suggestion, or shape themselves into the likeness of the Abyssal, much like how in the Hunchback of Notre Dame Judge Frollo was freaking out over the images of Esmerelda in the fire. Don't get explicit, and if you must, fade to black.

So, yeah, it's actually really easy if you aren't trying to work yourself up.

>>46783975
I don't think the goal is to make Plague of Hats seem better.

>>46783147

Chambers was so much fucking worse. As bad as holden is he at least explains things and knows how the system runs. Chambers had no fucking clue how it worked and never spoke to the fanbase period.

>>46783990
He did a "dramatic reading" of some guy's Zero no Tsukaima erotic fan-fic, for the express purpose of mocking the writer and getting his friends to pile in.

Which uh, okay, it's someone's erotic fan-fic and that's naturally hilarious, but you're intentionally going before all the internet and saying "LOOK. LOOK AT THIS STUPID FUCKER, AND HATE HIM."

>>46783785
People actually like Inugami?

You asked why I found it (mildly) creepy and I told you.

But if you want to re-fight an ancient flame-war, you're gonna have to find someone else to do it with.

>>46784080
Yeah Chambers was basically mostly about just making something that looked cool enough on the surface to get people to buy it. His real love baby was Scion, which was birthed by him taking his dick and jamming it deep into the Ex2 mechanics.

>>46784113
This is 4chan, dude, beating a dead horse is what we just do.

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>>46784113
O-ok.

Thank you for telling me not to bring up an ancient flame-war after you brought up an ancient flame-war, friend sanctaphrax.

>>46784084
Was he doing something exceptionally dickish for no reason in addition to doing that? Because doing that with random erotic fanfics is a thing that happens because it's funny. I've encountered it both in circles of friends and, weirdly, as a club act. I don't see anything wrong with doing it on the internet.

>>46784205
Well, he did it specifically to shit on the author, who is active in several rpg forums.

So that's probably worse than shit-talking someone else behind closed doors.

And kind of hypocritical to be outraged by the latter when you're deliberately exposing another person to mockery and derision in the former.

But hey, his bullying is progressive so it's okay???

>>46784113
Well, you asked if I could find a way to make it "non-creepy."

>>46784268
Whether it's worse or not is kind of immaterial to whether what Holden did is bad or not.

>>46784079

It's not.

>>46784080

Yeah. Holden might be a prick but he's not completely incompetent. Chambers was.

>>46784107

Yep.

>>46784179

Bring up all the old wars you want, just don't expect me to fight them with you.

>>46784205

Mocking people is a popular pastime. But it's still petty cruelty and I still don't like it.

Public attacks bug me less than private ones, though. And if you stick to attacking a story rather than a person, it can be pretty harmless.

Thing is, it sounds like PoH was after the person. Assuming we're not being lied to.

>>46784371
I don't think it is, because I bitch about things and people anonymously all the time, while mocking them aggressively.

I think most people here are pretty okay with it!!!

>>46784333

You're right. Probably shouldn't have; it opened the door for the dead horse to come through.

Sorry about that.

>>46784397
>Thing is, it sounds like PoH was after the person. Assuming we're not being lied to.

I think he was eventually shamed into deleting the video recently-ish, but he did defend what his actions on Sufficient Velocity because he felt the fic was "creepy"

Arms when?

>>46784405
You can think it's okay if you want, but that doesn't change that who Plague of Hats is is irrelevant to how Holden's actions should be treated in this case.

>>46784127

Thing is he was awful at it. So awful

>>46784477
I have a hard time trusting what he says about the devs, given that he's managed to make himself persona non-grata with not just the Exalted team, but the entire company.

>>46784519
And that's both okay and not related to what I'm saying.

>>46784504
I liked when John Chambers said that perfect defenses no longer worked against sorcery on his online errata.

I liked it ironically, of course, and in actuality I hated it.

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Why is it that, every time we talk about the system we say how it's so much better than 2E and that it's definitely worth trying, and then when we talk about the devs the tone of the thread does a complete 180?

>>46771648
Now I'm hopelessly confused.

>Gender is a social construct in Delzahn society

So is gender no longer a social construct IRL?

>>46784683
Because the character of the artist doesn't determine the quality of the work. I like Roman Polanski films but that doesn't mean I like the person. I'm not directly comparing the devs to Polanski here, it's just an example.

>>46784683

I think people wanted for 3e to be better. Honestly I'm wondering how to sell a system 600 pages. How long are other RPG books?

>>46784683
Because assholes made something significantly less shit than the people before.

>>46784683

Because an asshole can make good stuff.

In fact, if you really look into the personal lives of artists and inventors from history? It seems it's REQUIRED that you're a douche-canoe.

>>46784683
Vitriol draws more of itself. It just so happens that vitriol is excellent for creating new things.

>>46784724
5e DnD player handbook was ~300, IIRC.

>>46784724

D&D's PHB usually hovers between 200 and 300 pages, depending on edition.

WoD big books are basically the same size as that.

>>46784763
>>46784743

Keep in mind, you need a Monster Manual and DM's guide to actually run it.

Not all 600 pages are relevant to the players.

>>46784723
This. A lot of my favorite vidyas are published by fucking EA, for example.

>>46784789

True; if you only account for everything between character creation and the antagonist chapter + the panoply chapter, Ex3 "players only" edition clocks in at 431 pages, which isn't actually that bad.

"But you skipped the lore." It's not like D&D's PHB contains lore either.

>>46772324
Mortal and human are not synonymous. I consider your average mortal in Exalted to be some sort of subhuman automaton. They categorically can't progress in technology (see: Autochthonia {sp}, where they've never advanced at all).

>>46784789
They're recommended, heavily, but you have everything you actually need in the player book.

>>46784826
It's way more interesting if the players don't know Exalted lore, have their PCs start out in the middle of the sticks, and then gradually get exposed to this strange and weird world.

>>46784863
I know, I'm just saying you don't need every page in the 600 page Exalted corebook either.

>>46784826

On the other hand, you don't really need D&D lore to plug you're dwarf into generic fantasy setting number 72.

Trying to make an Exalted character without knowing at least the basics of its cosmology and history is pretty hard.

>>46784718
Not that anon, but dereth aren't really transgender in the way we understand. Well, maybe individuals like Prince Diamond are, but not the PRACTICE.

For the Delzahn nothing is really "assigned at birth" and they wouldn't recognize any kind of fluidity or transition: a man is manly, full-stop. They have two extremely rigid gender identities, you must choose one, and you cannot borrow traits - a Dereth man who does anything girly is fucking up as hard as a non-Dereth man, which is HARD. It's totally locked in. They're not liberal, they're extreme conservatives who just happen not to place much value on genitalia in determining your canned-definition social role.

>>46784900
I just tell people it's a bronze-age kung-fu movie, and that's enough for them to at least start with.

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>>46784683

Because the dev's are complete fucksticks who couldn't find their asshole with a roadmap to all of the dicks stuffed into it.

That doesn't mean they couldn't churn out a decent game if they tried. And they tried. Sort of. I mean, we still have shit like the fucktarded way MA and Craft work, and other problems that will likely need eratta down the road, but other stuff got better. Worlds better.

Then again, raw shit wiped on printer paper would be better than 2e, so maybe we are just overselling how good 3e is, because we all could be suffering from beaten housewife syndrome.

>>46784724

Most of that though is the bloated ass Charm text. Basically everyone is a D&D Wizard and needs a list of the shit they can do, and the dev's aren't good at cutting out useless shit like WotC is when it comes to spells.

>>46784952
Naw I think the combat and social systems are unironically good.

The loads of charms I could really take or leave.

>>46777390
how the hell do you tell what the highlight of a scene is except in retrospect

>>46784931
Genuinely not trying to be a shit starter here:

Don't transgenders view themselves to be authentically of their desired gender? Some take offense at it being "sex reassignment surgery" and not, what, "sex confirmation surgery," iirc. Transgenders also tend to believe that they MUST dress like the clothes of their "true" gender.

So it seems more that they're pretty close to transgender as we know them, they just wouldn't like transvestites.

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>>46785014

They honestly needed to further genericize the Charms. Just roll all the "Roll again, 9 again, 10 again" etc. shit into their own fucking excellencies, and leave it at that.

Also, less "One effect for a specific situation" Charms. Roll the effects into more universal Charms.

"But but they specifically wanted to NOT do that!" I don't give a shit, it led to Charm bloat once again because it was a bad idea. Every time they do this it adds more text space because they have to add a name header, cost, etc, all the text that adds up and bloats the book further.

>>46785057

I had similar objections, so I changed the trigger to an action that would earn you a Role/Expression Bonus instead.

Still about as rare (once/scene at most, more likely once/session for each player, if that), but easier to go "yep that's the one" in the moment.

>>46785151
Having a large excellency tree might be better than all the dice trick charms, yeah.

>>46785151
The reroll 9, 10, 7 shit is so fucking annoying. Then again, nothing will ever compare with 2e.

>okay, lets see, A goes on tick 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15, B goes on tick 0, 5, 10, 15, C goes on tick 4, 7, 10, 13...
>alright, that's a good stunt.. wait, you want to stunt each attack in the flurry? and each defense against his flurry? okay...
200 dice later for one character's attacks...
>okay, since his DV is reduced by 1 each time, you get a margin of 3, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9...

etcetera.
>inb4 people don't know about my 200 dice a round

>>46785128
Nah, transgender people are born with the wrong sex and want to look like they weren't, their gender is the opposite of their birth sex, and they want to get surgery for their sex to change to match their gender.
So an mtf person would be born with a dick, would want to wear dresses and girly stuff, if they can get the surgery, they get tits and change the dick into a vag, making them female physically and mentally, even if they're xy for important medical stuff.
Girls and guys, trans or cis, irl are mostly able to do what they want, modern society is trying to get rid of the idea of gender roles, so a girl wanting to be a soldier doesn't mean they want a dick too.

This is different from the Delzahn, you're born with a dick or a vag, you grow up, then you decide whether you want to do manly things or girly things, and get called a man or woman respectively. They're very strict with the behaviours of each, but they let you pick the girly side even if you have a dick, as long as you're just as girly as the others. And they let you be a warrior with a vag, as long as you're as manly as the other guys. Plus they have to wear the grey thing and signal they're Dereth, but that's more to make it clear which group they belong, even if their body might give you the wrong impression.

So it's possible for a Dereth to be a transperson, but it's less about wanting different body parts, and more about having different jobs.

>>46785151
>>46785205

The trouble with a generic Excellency tree is that double 8s would shatter the combat system, but does no real harm in the Investigation system.

So you either give everything a different price (meaning you're writing a bunch of Charms ANYWAY, you're just cramming them under a single header) or balancing everyone around the worst one.

>>46785128
>Don't transgenders view themselves to be authentically of their desired gender? Some take offense at it being "sex reassignment surgery" and not, what, "sex confirmation surgery," iirc. Transgenders also tend to believe that they MUST dress like the clothes of their "true" gender.

Some, maybe. But that's not how Dereth see themselves. Dereth (as a category, at least) don't have any particular desire to have either "sex reassignment surgery" or "sex confirmation surgery" because for them, sex isn't related to genitals, but rather to how you dress, and how you act.

A Dereth woman doesn't wear dresses because she believes she was actually supposed to be a woman, and was born with a penis due to some sort of cosmic accident; she wears it because she wants to pursue a traditionally-female occupation and, culturally, part of that is taking on feminine cultural cues. A physical sex-change is entirely pointless for a Dereth, because as far as they're concerned, they're already the specified gender. They don't need surgery to validate that.

Think of that stereotype of female cops needing to become "one of the boys" if they're to be respected. They need to be able to fight, belch, fart, and make crude jokes just as well as the men do, to be considered as an insider, rather than an interloper. That is, they need to adopt masculine social cues in order to be accepted in their profession. Well, Dereth is just that turned up to 11.

>>46785384

So just list the price differently in the "Mote cost" line. ie: "5m for combat abilities, 3m for non-combat" or whatever.

>>46785384
This.

Also in play I haven't found dice tricks to be obnoxious except in Craft

>>46785332
I'm not really sure what the difference is beyond tech level and that they're strict about jobs. Trans definitely want to be treated as the opposite sex and don't want to be viewed as some third category.

>>46785405
There are very few ways to get double 8s on the attack roll period. Its not an effect present in most combat trees even.

Its something cool for individual Simple charms that require some pre-existing condition to be met, but casual double 8s would break open the combat system in a bad way

>>46785387
>don't have any particular desire to have either "sex reassignment surgery" or "sex confirmation surgery"

Well its easy to say that when they don't have widely available means.

>>46785405

Except, again: Awareness is most certainly a combat ability, but can get away with more dice-tricks than Melee can, because it interacts with a different portion of it.

Likewise, damage charms are often dice-tricks, and you definitely don't want the Excellencies to apply to them generally.

>>46785411
Yeah totally, but an irl ftm person can still act girly and have a feminine-seeming job, as long as they get the clothes, the hormones, surgery and people calling them "he", they're cool with it.
Dereth ftm don't /necessarily/ give a shit about their parts, they just want to be treated like a guy, stab shit, and not be asked to sew and watch kids.

>>46785384
>The trouble with a generic Excellency tree is that double 8s would shatter the combat system, but does no real harm in the Investigation system.

I think it can be done. The thing is, in most cases where double-8s don't matter, Essence expenditure also doesn't matter, because it's operating at a narrative level.

20m, 1wp for double 8s would still be eminently usable in an Investigation scene, while mostly impractical in combat.

Also, I find double-X pretty pointless in those sort of scenarios (Investigation, Larceny, etc) anyway - they're almost always overkill.

I don't think any Charms other than Excellencies should increase how *well* you do something - rather they should expand what is possible for you to attempt. Like, no matter how well you roll in combat, you can't make two attacks at once - except with a charm. Or, no matter how high your Larceny pool is, you can't fake a terrestrial anima - except with a charm.

>>46785434

It's probably easier for a person in Creation to get that done than it is for your average modern person. The Creation-version would probably be a lot more thorough, too, instead of being largely cosmetic.

>>46785471

>Dereth ftm don't /necessarily/ give a shit about their parts,

Well that's my point, saying the two are different because dereth don't care about SRS is a bit of a red herring, since SRS doesn't particularly exist in Exaltedland.

>>46785518

Step 1 is, encounter of the 50 or so people who can do it for you, across a disc with the surface area of Jupiter.
Step 2 is, fight through the impossibly vast mob of other people surrounding him and begging him for favors.
Step 3 is somehow convince him to do what you want.

Of course the Creation version is more thorough, you can get person to duck surgery in an instant by a sidereal, but its almost unbelievably hazardous or impossible to find someone or something who can do it.

You could also debatably wander into the Wyld and try to power quest.

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>>46785332
I've always thought that the natural progression for a Dereth with real clout would be to get a god or a sorcerer to transform them into their desired biological sex. In fact, that would be what any transgender person in Creation would do if they could pull the strings. Then I realized that there would almost certainly be a god of transgender beings with a rather disproportionate amount of power derived from a prayer base that could well be held utterly captive by their need to live life in a body that doesn't feel fucking wrong. Which would really be the ultimate expression of the Exalted developers' pandering and the setting's native style: Transexuals would have even more direct inclusion in the setting beyond Prince Diamond via this god, potentially increasing sales, and it would advance the story because the god would be Diamond's foil. He/she/it is this horribly corrupt god who can grant anyone physical "transcendence", morphing their bodies into their desired sex, but the god gouges the fuck out of your bank account or forces you to do things for him/her/it. It's a gangster.

Hey Onyx Path, you should hire me.

>>46785593
>Step 1 is, encounter of the 50 or so people who can do it for you, across a disc with the surface area of Jupiter.

lol @ Creation with only 50 Sorcerers.

What percentage of Creation do you reckon Sorcerers would make up, and how do you think that would compare to sex reassignment surgeons, as a percentage of the global population?

>>46785639
Like Repo/Repo Men, but breaking your kneecaps to take back the dick they gave you?

>>46785663
>only 50 sorcerers

I'll bite, what terrestrial sorcery spell flips someone's gender? Seriously.

If you're talking about something in celestial sorcery, then it would be a high end estimate to think 50 people know it in all of Creation.

>>46785712
Or giving you testicular cancer out of nowhere. Or letting you keep it, but now you're sterile and it burns like hell every time you take a piss, jack off, or have sex. And so on. And you just know that Prince Diamond is eventually going to have enough of this god's shit, regardless of how personally powerful or connected the god is. And the god may not want money, the god may want a really fucked up favor.

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>>46785729
A minor working?

The kind doable by mortals?

>>46785729
>what are workings

>>46785729

>spell

Sorcerous working.

Ambition 2 (Goal Number 10): Cross two different species
of plant or animal to create a hybrid species with the best
traits of both. Grant mutations to oneself or a willing
subject. Instill a plant, animal, or object with human-level
intelligence. Ward a chamber against scrying, teleportation,
or intrusion by a particular type of spirit.

>>46785639
The natural progression for a Dereth with real clout is to just wear a gray sash and continue about their business.

There are what we recognize as trans people among the Dereth, but it's not universal. If you want to be a soldier - EVEN IF YOU HAVE ZERO DESIRE FOR ANY OTHER PART OF MASCULINITY - your only choice is to be a man. There are undoubtedly Dereth male soldiers who secretly hate being manly all the time in public, but they really wanted to join the army.

For the Delzahn, "gender" is a defined, rigid behavior set that corresponds to various careers. Males do X, and only males do X. Females do Y, and only females do Y.

Gender is NOT, however, necessarily anything to do with physical presentation other than clothing. A Dereth woman can have a full beard and bulging biceps so long as they wear the dress and sash. No one (okay, the majority, I'm sure they have all kinds of opinions) thinks it's weird, because it's understood that's the kind of thing you need to do culturally if you want to work in an apothecary.

That's the real difference. In our modern culture, gender is about social IDENTITY, who you ARE; Dereth are about social ROLE, what you DO. There is criss-cross aplenty! It's just a Venn diagram, not a perfect circle.

What's the job delineation between male and female Delzahn, anyway?

>>46785151
Eh, the dice trick charms do add a lot to the tactical aspect of the game.

>>46786005

Male = public, female = private

Men deal with others, women run the family. For most families, the woman's power is pretty limited, but for high-ranked wives, where the families might include a whole host of lesser wives (the Delzahn are polygamous), and less-powerful cousins, nephews, etc, it can be a position of some power - albeit circumscribed by familial boundaries.

>>46786005
Mostly stereotypical conservative Republican/Islamic stuff, as far as I know. Men hunt and kill, women embroider. Feel free to mix it up for your setting since there's not like an exhaustive list, maybe the Delzahn consider strip-dancing to be masculine and only girls are blacksmiths. Remember the usual delineations based on physical strength/pregnancy potential never happened in Exalted.

>>46786173
>Remember the usual delineations based on physical strength/pregnancy potential never happened in Exalted.

Only amongst Exalts / Dynasts

>>46784397
>>46784107
>Yep.

I'm sorry that you, and they, have such shit taste for friends. Inugami is a waste of oxygen.

>>46784718
>So is gender no longer a social construct IRL?

It never was. Gender is a biological construct IRL, based on clear cut, well understood biological constraints. The hormonal production between male and female is not the same for well understood reason. Women bear children, they are as a rule considered more precious than men, who are expected to protect and lay down their own lives for women if need be. The cultural interplay it creates is a well understood construct that is far more tied to physiology than culture. The Inuit people have the same social norm between men and women as the Bedouin.

The Delzahn society is very strange by biological standard, but it's Exalted. If a god didn't do it, an Exalted did it. I have no issue with it.

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>>46786497
>It never was.