Warhammer 40k general.

File: 1460761058924.jpg (205KB, 581x1032px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 581x1032px

>>46712177
Rules for renegade knights

File: 1460049002936.jpg (423KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

423KB, 1280x1024px

First for why can't these guys have daemon bolters anymore?

File: 1460761121158.jpg (165KB, 581x1032px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 581x1032px

>>46712222

File: paytowin.jpg (64KB, 541x321px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 541x321px

For one small in app purchase of $30 get free advantages over your opponents forever!

File: kkk marines.jpg (617KB, 1833x1584px) Image search: [Google]

617KB, 1833x1584px

r88 my ultramarines

>>46712222
>>46712245
I'm definitely going to pick up that new Knight box, though I'm really torn on what I'll end up making with it.

An Ork double-gatling knight is appealing, though having a knight for both my Imperial forces and my Chaos army would be nice.

>>46712236
Beats me. It's not like they can't get other ranged weapons anyway.

>>46712236
The old 3.5 chaos book required the chaos lords some chaos gifts before it became a daemon prince, but since the no model no rules came to GW they edited it out, but they actually lost the in 4 and the reason was the same the model didn't had a bolter, also the 4 edition was worst flavor for many codexes since it stream lined everything.

>>46712275
that KKK scout is the funniest thing I've ever seen in 40k

do they let you play in stores with that?

>>46712249

It's cool, literally nobody will accept their opponent using it.

>>46712275
>trump supporters

>>46712313
It's too well painted probably just for showcase.

So, where should I be throwing Free-marine? In a Tac squad with plas/combi plas?

>>46712382
Probably, stern guards would be a good option too.

>>46712333
Here we go again bois. Let it be noted Libs started the bantz.

>>46712402
they always start it, then they run away crying when they get rekt

File: best marines.jpg (250KB, 1200x957px) Image search: [Google]

250KB, 1200x957px

what chapter is sam hyde the master of?

>>46712317

People who refuse a generic, non-cheesy marine army using this actual model with the rules aren't worth playing against.

You shouldn't be playing against cheesy marine armies to begin with, who will just add this to the army afterward. Battle Company, grav spam, bike spam, centurions are all worse than this thing.

What's it going to do, instant death one of your troop models? Maybe two of them? Whoo boy.

>>46712382
The Skyhammer Annihilation Force.
For maximum WAAC faggotry.

>>46712249

Just print the rules and convert the model faggot. Then you can do it for $0

>>46712177
So /40kg/ I got skitarii and I was planning on paint them on the colors of Mars, but now I'm having second thoughts, would it be okay if my army had two different color schemes? I'll paint my get started box and some extra skitarii on red but I'll probably paint the rest of my army with other scheme, would this be a problem?

>>46712397
>paying extra points for a Sternguard
>downgrading him to this guy

You want to put him in a squad where he's an upgrade. You lose veteran stats and ammo.

>>46712548
>free instant death
>a downgrade

>>46712382
Tactical squad is probably the best place. You can effectively get 2 plasmaguns and a combi-plas this way.

Stick them in a Rhino and shoot them at durable targets, or just drop-pod them in behind something. Both should work.

Remember to focus their fire on big multi-wound models like MCs.

>>46712177
Trump fags btfo

>>46712397
I thought you could only use him to replace a "Space Marine" ie. the bog-standard dudes in Tac, Assault and Devastator Squads.

Not the "Space Marine Sergeants" or a "Veteran" model.

Am I wrong here?

>>46712494

It'll drop-melta a monstrous creature, basically.

Ranged instant death is as cancerous as ranged D for exactly the same reasons.

Now, since D-spam already exists it merely existing isn't a radar blip, but as a free upgrade on 14 points? Fuck off.

Now, we could start the whole "Other bad things exist" train of argument, or the "It's a T4 W1 model" one, but really? It's a matter of principle, not that someone couldn't technically suck up and deal with it.

>>46712279
you won't be able to make a double gatling unless you make the second one yourself (
as far as i'm aware there is only 1 gatling in the gallant box and the paladin box has none

File: images (2).jpg (13KB, 443x332px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 443x332px

>>46712548
I thought it would look good in a squad with more guys with special guns.

>>46712619
It's unclear. Either way, it's more cost-effective in those other squads anyway.

>>46712638
They really could have made it a 20 point upgrade or something. It's not like people wouldn't be using it anyway.

>>46712682
In that case, you'd be better off taking it in a Devastator squad.

In fact, a Devastator squad might be the best place for it. Can't the Sergeant give one guy in the squad BS 5 each turn?

>>46712641
I see. For some reason I thought there'd be two in the box.

That's a bit disappointing, although I suppose it narrows down my options.

The others I was considering were a loyalist Gallant (modeled with double-chainswords) and a Chaos Renegade with two Melta Cannons

soo, Defensive grenades can be used as a blast weapon with the blind rule, and if you fail the initiative test, you are WS and BS 1 for the turn.

Because I've been thinking. The Tau have those Breacher guys with the variable-damage weapons, which means they are often within charging distance of literally anyone they want to hit with the S6 AP3 profile.

Using an MEQ, how reliable would it be to advance towards the unit, run+shoot (assuming you took them in the formation that allows that) while also throwing a defensive grenade at them?

>>46712717
>18" range
>put it in a dev squad

yeah good luck ever shooting his weapon

>>46712766
If you're asking if it'd be a good idea to throw Blind Grenades with Breachers in order to help protect yourself from a counter-attack, the answer is yes.

Consider a Gun drone as well to force Pinning tests and give a bit of extra threat range.

>>46712768
Put them in a drop pod. Nobody said you had to give the rest of the squad all heavy weapons. Just have them meatshield for the sarge and this guy as he puts out 2 BS 5 instant death shots each turn.

File: DaemonsofChaos2.jpg (142KB, 652x905px)

142KB, 652x905px

>>46712317
>>46712494
I normally have to reign in what I do with my psychic phase, he's a good excuse to summoning more with having to hold back.

>>46712909

Yeah, Tzeentch table sucks, army lacks enough shooting for Divination to be useful...

You pretty much need to roll for cursed earth then deliberately be sparing with your summons if you want to balance out a Daemon psyker army. Use your horrors as a battery for your Biomancer prince maybe.

Self-policing on the fly mid game with random powers is joyless. That's why I tend to play my other armies instead, or run Daemons as a mono-khorne rush list.

>>46712333
>Klan
>supporting someone tied with Jews so tightly
I bet you unironically think Bernie's an economic genius.

>>46712858
So you're going to buy an entire squad without any other special weapons so that your free marine can maybe take advantage of his instead death gun?

Jesus christ think what you're saying for a minute

>>46713024
Why not? People are suggesting putting it in a tactical squad anyway. This is the same thing, except the ID gets BS 5 out of the deal.

>>46713011
How is he not?
Raising the minimum wage will open more jobs for people
And making colleges free will allow people to get more, better jobs thus helping the economy

>>46712793
>Pinning tests

oh fuck i completely forgot about how carbines did that. Not to mention that you can give your squad a 5++ for real bad shit.

>>46713094
Because buying an entire squad to meatshield a S5 plasma gun that might maybe be able to take advantage of instant death makes no sense.

The Imperial Marine is a free additional special weapon. Don't stick him in a deliberately gimped squad, use him to beef up an already half decent one.

>>46713177
>you can give your squad 5++

You mean you WILL. The Guardian drone is such a 'no duh' upgrade that I'm surprised people try and act like it's optional.

1 Guardian Drone, 1 Gun drone, maybe an extra breacher.

You're firing off plenty of AP 3 shots at super close range, and possibly blinding and pinning the target as well to help ensure they aren't going to shoot and charge you.

>>46713167
>20 trillion dollars

>>46713221

Breachers aren't AP2? Christ, they're even more an auto-ignore than I thought.

Yes let's stick a 5 inch gun on low-mobility, low durability infantry with no combat ability. That's a winning tactic right there.

Maybe take them an 80 point vehicle with no fire points for maximum synergistic point wasting.

>>46712532
Yes. Never have your army in multiple schemes. The same goes for bases.

>>46713004
I just realized what I said was gibberish, man I must be tired.

But what I mean is with the need staff of paradox I can cast a WC3 power each turn without fail so that means I can add a 115/125 point squad to my army each turn for practically free.
Considering how amazing the daemons basic troops are that can be pretty overwhelming for an unoptimized list.
Even without support I could summon a squad of 10 letters then summon a second squad of 10 without them scattering at all and complete fuck all his tactical squads if he doesn't focus fire them down, ignoring the squads I actually paid for and are approaching him to fuck him up anyway.

If he has that marine I could justify more summoning to myself if I'm losing as he's such a good, free upgrade.

>>46713292
Can't have a 44pt unit with potential termie-killer stats

t.GW

>>46712532
It's "okay", but honestly I think aesthetically your army will suffer and you'll regret it

There's a reason 99% of people have a unified visual scheme to their army, even if it varies from squad to squad how it's applied (like Dark Angels Tac squads and Deathwing Terminators using the same colours but applied in different ratios on different areas)

But it's your army dude, while this is what I reccommend, paint them the way that pleases you.

>>46713281
What?

>>46712754
well you have the base of the gun with shield
it shouldn't be to hard to stick some small tubes on it and bind them with some greenstuf to create a second Gatling
only downside is that they'll both look diffrent

>>46713595
It's the price of the new space marine army box set GW are releasing

>>46713595
turns out 'free stuff' isnt so free

>>46713281
> 20 trillion dollars
> Somehow worse than wasting $25 trillion & countless lives by letting the private market Reaganomics Randroid bureaucrats shit all over common sense, human empathy, & math in their quest to continue failed economic policy by sucking the collective dick of the 1%

Wew lad. Fantasy books like Atlas Shrugged aren't meant to be taken seriously--read some other material & at least wait until the end of your freshmen year to decide on your guiding life philosophy.

>>46713726
>literally having brain damage

>>46713767

>Literally traveling about in a reganomic spider-copter

>>46713870
>literally mad cuz im stylin on u

>>46713659
True. I could probably just convert one since it's gonna be a more scrappy looking Ork Knight anyway.

>>46712382
In the trash with your self respect and social awareness.

at least you'll increase your chances of winning at the Warhammer 40,000 tabletop game

>>46714117
Jokes on you

I'm using him as a combi-melta Aspiring champ for my Iron Warriors, I have no chance of winning a game

>>46712279
>>46712245
Can Orks actually use it?

File: spacemarine.jpg (46KB, 400x500px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 400x500px

>>46712177
So normally I play CSM and IG, but I'm really liking the way the new Iron Hands stuff looks. For my armies I've spent stupid amounts of money by always buying things at full price though. If I want to pick up some new marines to play around with am I best off buy the new Collecting box from ebay is there a more efficient way to get them. I only really want around 1000pts or so for now. Pic is the color scheme I'm going with for the successor chapter.

File: $700 looted wagon.jpg (371KB, 1162x1600px) Image search: [Google]

371KB, 1162x1600px

>>46714499
They can Ally with it like they could any CSM stuff.

>>46714499
The rules says the new Renegade Knights ally in the same way as CSM near the bottom of the page, and Orks are Allies of Convienience with Chaos Space Marines.

Since it's a separate formation, you can get 1-3 Renegade Knights as AoC for your Ork force.

>>46713167
>And making colleges free will allow people to get more, better jobs thus helping the economy
>making colleges free
>free
>implying
I seriously hope you are just pretending to be retarded.

>>46714682
>This general is about plastic space men not /pol/ edition

Nobody cares about americuck politics go somewhere else

>>46714750
Shut up yuropoor, almost all of your continent is simply puppet states for nations like the USA.

>>46714750
>he said on an american website
fuck off ahmed

>>46714824
>he said on an american website
>Japanese owner
Youre "moot" is long gone, gaijin, 4chan belongs to us now!

>>46714824
> he says on a thread about a British miniatures game

Amerifats can't really be this dumb can they?

>>46714861
thats not the only thing thats miniature in britain

>it's ANOTHER /pol/ derail episode

File: 1460120570943.jpg (542KB, 750x1063px)

542KB, 750x1063px

Are these threads always like this?

>>46714951
yes, is that a problem?

>>46714951
Sometimes we can have alright threads. It's a little suspicious though how /40kg/ goes to shit with /pol/-posting at the same time /hhg/ goes to shit with "World Eaters get free chainaxes". It make sense though once you realise it's when all the American kiddies get back from school.

>>46715043
>he thinks we have school on weekends
calm down ling ling

>>46715043
aren't aussies the shitposter kings, though

File: 1460492346539.jpg (358KB, 918x1224px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 918x1224px

>Using technomancy on imperial redoubt
>it becomes available 16 everywhere
>nothing short of S:D, melta or armour bane will had an easy work into killing it
>void shielded
>S:D gun keeping everything death
>second psyker with Geokinesis will make it flying fortress of doom
>Dorn would be proud
I'll make an imperial fist army just for this.

File: Chaos Undivided.jpg (40KB, 610x645px)

40KB, 610x645px

Who is the most JUST faction and why is it Chaos?

>Catch glimmer of hope in Crimson, BL and Renegade knight rumors
>It's all mediocre/shit as fuck

And just in time to have any enjoyment slapped out of our hands by loyalistfag psyker bullshit

>>46712575

It's not free, you just wasted 8+ points on it because you replaced a Sternguard instead of a tactical marine.

Also you can't even put him in a Sternguard squad because Sternguard aren't "Space Marines". Just like a sergeant can't take a special weapon in a tactical squad because only "Space Marines" can take them and he's a "Space Marine Sergeant".

>>46715430
Renegade knights have double Gatling dakka+spear missiles, that will delete most of chaos problems.

>>46715430
Can we get a shop of the CSM codex cover but with the JUST eyes on the marine?

>>46715101

Yes, moot even confirmed it.

Daily reminder that moot was right about EU and AU posters.

>>46715043
It's Saturday.
>>46715101
Yes they are.

Anon here who was organizing the gladiator tournament for the space marine day

Was won by a farseer on jetbike who just flew to each corner casting psychic shriek

>>46715430
renegade knights are a direct upgrade from loyalists ...
the fuck more do you want ?

>>46715473
>>46715509
Wow, I thought people were kidding when they said loyalists were going to claim the renegade knight fixes all of chaos's problems.

>>46715430
I think some of the formations were actually kinda neat. The Possesed tax on a lot of them brings it down, but at least there were some interesting rules in there.

Being able to get double-guns on Knights is sweet as well. Heck, being able to just get normal Knights at all is nice.

It would have been much better if Technomancy, Geokinesis, and Fulmination were given to all armies though.

>>46715530
It solves some of their problems anon.

File: 5bb1320db65801446d0238d653385da7.jpg (389KB, 1000x708px) Image search: [Google]

389KB, 1000x708px

>>46715339
I am so distraught that fortifications can't be brought with the sternhammer detachment

Speaking of which, I am man now and it is time to choose: ded ard centurion assault squad or cheap but functional assault squad?

I gotta fill out my formation. Id love to use centurion assaults for flavor to match my centurion devs, but transportless centurions footslogging seems... bad.

>>46715556
>It would have been much better if Technomancy, Geokinesis, and Fulmination were given to all armies though.

Fucking this so hard

I WANT to care about these new powers. Oh GW are so retarded it hurts.

>>46715590
Actually it solves literally none of them since chaos already had knights, and has huge problems completely unrelated to superheavies.

>>46715509
> your knights are better than ours what else do you want
> all we get is smashfucker prime, 500+ points of free shit, grav cents and grav bikers, game breaking new psychic powers, more heresy shit than you, chapter tactics, etc.

>>46715530
>loyalists are mad xddd
not once did i say it fixes chaos
but seriously, the fuck did you expect ? an imperial knight that would make your CSM armies an instant win?
it's better than a loyalist knight how on earth are you disappointed you dipshit ?

Is there anywhere selling the Index Astartes: Apocrypha? I got my hands on the Imperial Space Marine but was unable to get the book.

>>46715430

>It's all mediocre/shit as fuck

Speak for yourself.

The Fire Power on the Renegade Knight is substantial given it has the options for a Storm Spear Launcher or

> Double Thermal Cannons.

> Double Avenger Gattling Cannons.

> Double Battle Cannons.

> Option to replace stubbers with Melta Guns.


>>46715635

Well it gives them a better shooting Super-Heavy.

The Chaos Knight, though an excellent unit, is melee oriented and has no where near the firepower a Renegade Knight could bring to the table.

>>46715679
Because some Chaos players won't be satisfied until they're told they can take literally any Loyalist stuff with whatever options and upgrades they want along with free Marks and more Daemon stuff

>>46715652

File: Danny from GG inquires about your wellbeing.png (129KB, 707x493px)

129KB, 707x493px

>>46715679
>>46715509
>it's better than a loyalist knight how on earth are you disappointed you dipshit ?

2/10 Weak double bait attempt. It's time to stop posting famalam

File: Clunk.jpg (10KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 320x240px

>Chaos Knight
>Literally being sold the same shit with maybe a transfer sheet thrown in
>Mfw people hold this as the savior of CSM.
>Mfw people line up to suck gw dick
>Loyalists in charge of delusions

>>46715728
>>46715712
This time of night is Australian chaosfags who don't actually play since they can't afford the models and just spout their autism shit

>>46715845
>Renegade Knight

FTFY

File: ChaosKnight08.jpg (94KB, 800x680px)

94KB, 800x680px

>>46715845
>Chaos Knight

>>46715712
> why the fuck do chaos players want to have actually alright stuff? It makes it harder for us to shit down your throat

you disgust me, I bet you were devastated when space marines lost their Battle Brother status with Tau

File: 1454213722434.png (47KB, 768x728px)

47KB, 768x728px

>>46715854

>>46715918

Such a sick model

>>46715948
I fucking play Chaos you retard. Why can't you just accept that we finally got -something- for once instead of bitching endlessly?

If I want a shooty dread should I replace the multimelta with something with longer range?

>>46715998
Because who gives a shit about a Knight? We already had a shitload of super heavies who were, to be quite honest, pretty decent anyways. Yet another one that's a bit more shooty than normal doesn't change the fact that the rest of the army fucking sucks.

>>46715712
yep, over half of them have ousted themselves as whiny little pricks who would turn into waac fags in a heartbeat if their codex allowed it
a knight is already a great unit , they get one that has more options and is pretty much the exact same point wise and somehow they are dissapointed

they really expected something so much better than an imperial knight with a chaos sign drawn on it that it would turn their horrible army (crunch wise) into a cheesefest

File: Chaos_Knight.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>46715918
And the rules, chaos has had this for a year now so Im not sure why NOW chaosfags are acting like its all the new hotness. Shit you can even deep strike these bad boys, not sure why you would want that but sounds fun.

>>46715998
>I-I p-play chaos too why aren't you happy we f-finally g-got a knight

Playing CSM doesn't count if you use Space Marine rules anon

>>46716007

Depends.

What are you looking to shoot at?

>>46712275
>the south will rise again/10
On a side note:
States rights got cucked after the civil war

>>46716031
NOTHING IN THIS WOULD HAVE CHANGED THAT

You're saying that you honestly expected that 2 supplement re-releases with a handful of formations and access to Imperial Knights was somehow going to magically fix half of our stuff being overcosted?

It was never going to do that. At best, we were going to get some unique options on the Knight and a couple of cool formations.

WHICH IS WHAT WE GOT

>B-but these formations aren't OP vanilla muhreen formations

And even if they were it wasn't going to put you on marine tier.

>>46716064
>Someone disagrees with me
>They can't possibly be on my side!

Space Marine rules don't let me run Noise Weapons.

>>46716052

> even deep strike these bad boys

>not sure why you would want that but sounds fun.even deep strike these bad boys

Sounds like something to use in conjunction with that Dimensional Key artifact from the Chaos Space Marines Codex.

But in general, the Chaos Knight is a FW product and some people play in groups that dislike FW.

They may be able to refuse FW, but they can't refuse a GW Product, which the Renegade Knight is.

Quite frankly I think the Renegade Knight and Chaos Knight both have their place in the inventory of Chaos Space Marines Lords of War.

File: sigma.png (553KB, 1366x688px) Image search: [Google]

553KB, 1366x688px

>Storm Wardens are one of the lost legions
>Sigmar is their primarch
>Fuck you

>>46716120
No, I'm saying I'm completely fucking ambivalent about the Knight release; I'm angry about people treating it or the new supplements are anything worth caring about.

>>46716158
Yep. You can get a Renegade for a cheap Gallant setup or heavy ranged Firepower, or you can get a Daemon Knight for a more elite and expensive all-rounder.

File: STL.jpg (165KB, 354x299px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 354x299px

>>46716179

Sigmar already has his legion.

>>46716196
That's nice. You're really passionate about telling people how ambivalent you are.

I'll just be over here brainstorming ideas for how to use these fun new rules.

>>46716158
Don't take the dimensional key. Ever. Whatever 'scheme' you've come up with to get use out of it still doesn't deal with the fact that you usually get no benefit from it until 2/3rds of your reserves have already arrived.

>>46716158
Dimensional key is one of those things that make me wish you could choose to not roll for reserves still. How often are you going to be able to turn one assault?

But for real dimensional key deep striking in a knight is amazing.

>>46716226
>shitcast shiternals

>>46716228
>fun new rules
>shit we already had and shit that does nothing

People like you are the reason GW never does anything decent for chaos.

>>46716299
>I've never had fun before in my life

I'm sorry you are literally incapable of feeling Joy anon.

Let me guess, Nurgle army? It suits your level of despair and your need to powergame.

>>46716147
> not running your noise marines as grav devastators

It's like you're not even playing to win anon

Is there a way to get a pdf of the original 1st edition Rouge Trader rulebook? I'm interested in seeing what the Universe and lore was like back then, vs. now.

>>46716068
Mostly Tau. Specifically Firewarriors, Broadsides, and a Riptide. I mostly play super causally with one friend. Although occasionally against Necron decurions and Space Wolf Thunderwolf type armies.

>>46716196

You need to care about the new supplements if you don't want to be blindsided by the cheesy new rules or look stupid like that one faggot who told me Skyhammer as an auxiliary in Battle Company wasn't a legal list.

>>46716359

Las Cannon Dreadnoughts may be worth looking into then.

>>46716339
>If you're not excited about double-fearless Chaos Lords and knights with two guns, you've never had fun.

>>46716346
>Doesn't Ignore Cover
>No Pinning

Doesn't feel right. Not buying it.

>>46716354
https://www.scribd.com/doc/98081091/Warhammer-40K-Rogue-Trader-Rulebook

I found this using bing anon, fucking apply yourself

>>46716354
Kickass torrents look for Warhammer stuff - the biggest collections of books will be collections of scans

>>46712177
so my friend gave me 60 cultists
what do i do now

>>46716418
congrats, your friend just gave you an entire chaos SPACE MARINE army. now you just need to get some demons and youll be all set.

>>46716377
>Shooting enemies with their own guns isn't fun
>Being able to make a fluffy Tzeentch lord with Psyker powers isn't fun
>Formations with Dark Apostles to make Word Bearers lists better isn't fun
>Knights with 24 Gatling gun shots aren't fun
>Ork Knights aren't fun

What Deathwatch and other books do I need to have the complete lore on the Storm Wardens?

File: 1410561190422.png (125KB, 241x285px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 241x285px

>>46716437

>>46716403

Just use that new warp charge 1 psychic power that gives ignore cover and ignore line of sight. You should always be taking psykers with your centurions anyway for invisibility, now you get chain reaction witchfires, can warp terrain and fortifications around, and can swap places with the enemy while buffing your cents.

>>46716441
>You'll ever get the chance to shoot an enemy with the Cabal psyker power
>Formations aren't full of tax units and fail to do anything relevant beyond that
>Giving a shit about knights
>Meanwhile loyalists get 4 psyker full psyker disciplines, a total of 7 decurions thus far, absurd unfettered cheese and an ability to make literally any fluffy army good

>>46713011
Wait you actually think racists don't support Trump? You clearly haven't taken a shit in an Alabama construction site port-a-pottie in the last few months.

How effective are low-count fuckhuge model Tyranid armies?

>>46716605
>he thinks racist is an insult
you clearly eat out of alabama port-a-potties

filthy pleb

>>46716576
>I can't have fun unless I'm winning
>I can't have fun while I know other people elsewhere have nice things too

>>46716655
>I'm completely fine with being given blatantly worse treatment than any army except for orks
>Yes, please shit in my mouth more GW, I know I'm totally going to get an update one day ::::::)

>>46716703
>except Orks
>and Tyranids
>and Sisters
>and Dark Eldar
>and Imperial Guard
>and many other armies that are as weak or haven't gotten any good updates either

>>46716738
>imperial guard
im assuming you mean astra militarium, ether way you are wrong.

>>46716763
>im assuming you mean astra militarium

Well, that settles that then. You clearly just lack taste.

>>46716622

More effective than swarm ones. For maximum success, use Flyrants and the winged MCs, as well as Mawlocs, Trygons, and perhaps shooting Carnifexii.

You need to be in the air, under the ground, or off the board with Tyranids to do well. Otherwise you're a shooting gallery.

Any thoughts on building a Daemon Engine heavy army around the Renegade Knight?

>>46716703

Judging by KDK and LatD/Renegade Knights, we can assume

Daemons will stay fine, just like they've been top army since 2E.

KDK will make each god faction decent.

Renegades and heretics will be good due to flexibility and diversity. They may make a "renegade non-chaos CSM codex" that rivals loyalist vanilla.

But CSM will be eternally shit. AS IT SHOULD

>>46716793
imperial guard dont exist anymore :^)

>>46716837
And you saying that is why I can ignore your opinions on anything

Ok, so, as a Chaos player who never really cared about Knights because I thought I'd never get access to one, and that barely used the CS/BL suplements for the fear rule, allied force org shits and sometimes trying something differente (plasma chosen rerolling ones, some of the artifacts of the BL):

Can someone explain to me which are the news? And I don't need something like
>that we got fucked while loyalist doesn't
I want to know about what I'm going to field, not my oponent

>>46716858
>as a Chaos player who never really cared about Knights because I thought I'd never get access to one

Youve had access to one since last year, the rules have been free for a year. Why the fuck is everyone going like chaos knights are new? That shit boggles my mind.

>>46716858
Basically, BL has a bunch of 'meh' formations with one interesting one that lets you take a Sorcerer Cabal. CS has some formations with a few neat special rules that almost all have a possessed tax. Both supplements can also now mix their relics with the codex ones. Renegade Knights are the same as loyalist Knights but get 2 guns.

It's improvements and options, just not major ones. If you were already fielding some of this stuff, it's worth looking into.

>>46716834
Actually in a grimdark game chaos should be better than loyalists, being
a)loyalist but enhanced by chaos
b) grimdarkitty grimdarkness, your enemies are scary motherfuckers more dangerous than you, congrats, you are fucked.

That's why chaos lords had more WS that captains back in the old days.

Before you ask, I play both of them, also Xenos.

File: Astra-Militarum1.jpg (152KB, 873x627px) Image search: [Google]

152KB, 873x627px

>>46716855
>he doesnt even know that he has a new book
breh they updated that shit a long time ago, im surprised you didnt know.

>>46716903

Not really new so much as new options that can't be refused on the table like the FW one could.

The FW stigma hasn't gone away in some places so.

>>46716903
We don't use FW around here, not sure why.

>>46716738
>Tyranids
>The faction that got a solid supplement last year and something they've been begging for for upwards of a decade in the form of genestealer cult rules
>Sisters
>Dark Eldar
>factions player by one and a half people
>IG
>Weak
>2000 points of AV14
>Weak
>Just got an "update" that makes 2000 points of AV14 even better and easier to field
>other armies that are even anywhere near CSM and Orks

>>46716913
Thanks, I'll look for it

>>46716943
Because people are still under the false assumption that it's overpowered

>>46716645
Dude, being labeled a racist can be career-ending for most white males in the American workforce.

>>46716965

I don't think most people play at 2000 points, ever since 6E's double force org at 2000 happened. That's an outdated bracket.

>>46715591
Can't you use the stronghold supplement as an allied detachment?

>>46716941
It's odd that there's still a forgeworld stigma even today. Especially odd considering they use the Games Workshop copyright, use Games Workshop's main office as their return address, have Warhammer 40,000 written clearly on every single unit page and on the spine of their books, and of course clearly state every case where their rules can and are used.

One would think that if they weren't a part of games workshop, and used all of Games Workshop's copyrights, that GW... A EXTREMELY LITIGIOUS COMPANY, would be sueing the ever loving shit out of forgeworld. Like, fucking leaving a mountain of legal notices on forgeworld every single day, documenting all 12,000 violations of games workshop copyrights in every one of their books.

Honestly at this point, Forgeworld's rules compared to 7th edition 40k are now quite underpowered. Ooh, my 270 point walker with 3 hull points is really goddamn scary.

>>46716943
>>46716941
>FW stigma is still alive
>In the age of WH40K Apocalypse edition

Why? How?

>>46717010
1850 or whatever points level of AV14 you want to declare, then. IG can do it, it's fairly fluffy to do, and it's fucking solid. Hell, it's even better when you scale the points down far enough.

>>46716576
Fucking hell. As an Ork player, I used to root for my fellow NPCs the CSM to get a better codex. A lot the stuff you guys got was crap, but you have to be a willful shitter to not see that there are some nuggets of fun in those turds. People like you really are just a bunch of Edge Lords who wish they could WAAC.

>>46712419
im a lib and i can aree with this

>>46716988
pfft maybe if you have a faggot job
>mechanic
>my boss admitted he hired because of my tightrope bumper sticker
heh

>>46716941
>Not really new so much as new options that can't be refused on the table like the FW one could.

They're both equally refusable.

>>46717096

Then by that logic, you can refuse your opponent putting their army on the table.

>>46717145

You think you can't? You must be some beta cuck faggot. You can walk away whenever the fuck you want, moron.

>>46717145

There is no "you can refuse FW but can't refuse GW". GW and FW are the same shit now, they don't even have "approved" or "ask your opponent's permission" shit in FW anymore. It's the same fucking shit.

If you can refuse FW, you can refuse GW. You can't "not refuse" GW either.

>>46717145
Well, yes, you can, and with GW rule-writing, sometimes you should. You don't play with assholes spamming cheese bulshit. One thing we often do is swap armies.

>Be Mechanicus Player
>Opponent is Tyranids
>Put my army on the table
>He does the same, he reaches into his case and the glances in my direction and at my Dune Crawlers
>I narrow my eyes
>He looks back down into his cases and pulls out his Flyrants and re-establishes eye contact
>I raise an eye brow and without breaking eye contact, I pop the current load out off my Dune Crawlers
>I replace them all with Icarus Arrays
>Opponent sighs

>>46717145
Yes you can, its called not wanting to play, this game is social and theres a compromise to be made between the two people. Someone doesnt wanna play? Tough shit, no game for you.

>>46717056
Like what, exactly? The Helguard that I already could've run two years ago that does nothing but make a shit rule slightly better? The Warband for the oh-so-wonderful benefit of rerolling on a table that has yet to affect a game I've ever played? The Cyclopian Cabal that carries such an obvious "KILL ME FIRST" sign and is so points-intensive to make useful that anything I'd want to shoot with is going to kill the cabal first? 2000 point psuedo-detachment that gives respawning fucking possessed, of all things? Respawning cultists that still aren't worth piss in a fight?

>>46717235
kek

>>46717235

So you're a faggot? That story doesn't make you look good at all, you cringey eyebrow raising faglord.

>chaos gets something good
>immediate bitching and whining
>whenever called out they go "lol non chaos players are jealous!"
You know, maybe Tau players aren't that bad

>>46717317
It's not him to blame, this is GW responsibility since they made tyranids this predictable, they'll always bring flyrants since they're the only sensible option.

>>46712177
could you paste me the curze/lion duel please? especially that "i am sorry brother"

>>46717319
>You know, maybe Tau players aren't that bad

NEVER SAY THAT

That's like saying a bunch of chimpanzees that constantly whoop and holler while dancing around your head and shitting on your face isn't as bad as the guy forcefully dry raping you.

It would have been pretty cool if the Imperial Space Marine was a really cheap HQ option instead of a free guy. Maybe gives the whole unit sniper instead of the current gun.

File: 1446163898327.png (555KB, 744x666px) Image search: [Google]

555KB, 744x666px

>>46717385
holy shit I'm fucking dying, best comparison I've ever read about these faggots

>>46717319
i hate everybody except my csmbros orks 2bh

>>46717385
Show me on the Imperial Knight where the Riptide touched you.

>>46717319
I wouldn't go as far as good but new options to the chaos knights, giving them rules and detachment to them without needing FW rules do pass as GW supporting chaos, but then again CSM are never satisfied.

>tfw no one likes tau players
>tfw picked Tau purely cos they have loads of mecha

>>46717010
1000-1500 seems to be growing.

>>46717398
You want 30k, son. Veterans as Troops can be given sniper.

>>46717385
For real. One of my first games of 40K against a stranger was against a Tau player who told me he was also just getting into 40K, and had begun collecting Tau recently. He proceeds to take out about $1000 dollars worth of unpainted models, kicks the crap out of me, then tells me he has been playing for over a decade but just switched from Eldar to Tau so it was the same thing as being new.

How would Samurai Jack fare in the 40k realm?

>>46717517
I am all for mixing 30K into 40K (with a handicap of 10% extra points for the 30K player because their armies are weaker). Sadly most people are not, so 30K would mean I would have no one to play :C

As an aside, if Games Workshop made a unified ruleset between fantasy and 40K I would be down for playing that too. Making separate rule sets cuts the hobby in half.

>>46717440
Probably because it's Yet More of shit that chaos players don't want, tacked onto a dex that doesn't work. CSM players are kids with a broken down old beater of a car that've been trying to get dad to put a new transmission in it for 9 years. Instead dad just keeps buying them new rims and hood scoops (Dinobots and Knights).

Sure, they're cool, whatever, but I'd really like my car to drive rather than just look neat while it rots on the lawn.

>>46717458
The only sensible choice is inquisition, nobody cares about them and they can pack a punch too, sisters are also a goodish option, but getting models for the actual army is fucking hard and expensive..

>>46717440
Yes, because having the now outdated miniatures and shitty rules and being less diverse that the codex-adherent chapters is really being supported.

I for one enjoy having knights even if I'm not going to field them ever, and enjoy the shitty options of the supplements. I'll still ask for the things I liked about chaos, chaos armoury and legion rules. I won't expect anymore being an army of elite motherfuckers, fewer but most dangerous than their loyalist counterpart, because right now a CSM is basically the ones from that UM movie.

File: 2016-04-17_01-36-12.png (37KB, 1283x548px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 1283x548px

I'm getting into warhammer has a filthy casual. I always loved the universe but I never actually played it. Because I don't like wasting my money i plan to play it on Tabletop Simulator. I made a small Tau army. Any advices?

>>46713167
>Raising the minimum wage will open more jobs for people
>And making colleges free will allow people to get more, better jobs thus helping the economy
STOP

>>46717628

They aren't going to give you what you want, so don't plan on it, 3.5fag.

Every single new release has been stuff nobody wants, whether the player themselves or their opponents.

Eldar did not want to be Saim-Hann.

Marines did not want centurion waddlers.

GK did not want DK baby carriers.

>>46717748
i assumed he was joking

>>46717464

That's awesome. 1500 is the ideal points level IMO ignoring bullshit like formations and psykers summoning hundreds of free points, and small games like 1000-1250 are good for new players and quick games.

1850 is no different than a 6x4 Apocalypse game at this point.

>>46717435

But Imperial Knights don't have a mouth, dick, or anus.

>>46717822
maybe they should...

>>46717607

Galactic hero-level human, with luck and skill that pushes him close to assassin/marine level. He is a "battlefield" level hero in a "planetary" scale universe. Anything that cannot blow up a planet is not too strong in 40k. And anything in 40k is nothing in settings where characters are stronger/larger than entire universes (Dragon Ball Z/GT, DC Comics, TTGL, Daemonbane, etc).

A good comparison would be Batman or Spider-Man vs. Superman/Galactus.

>>46717707

Awful, you need more markerlights, strike teams that small aren't worth it. Just do a farsight list then you can take regular crisis suits for your 2 troop choices, throw a riptide in there, also take 2 weapons instead of twin link, 633 is a weird point value to do as well

So, am I the only one thinking that, for next update, they drop the Palanquin (Make it unique to Epidimius) and make the Plague Drone the Nurgle daemonic steed. Based on how they work at the moment, it would be: "Unit Type becomes Jet Pack Cavalry, +1T, +2W, +1A," Now, that would be worth 40 fucking points

>>46717681
>outdated miniatures
>laughing guards
>laughing sisters of battle
>laughing inquisition
Since marines were updated recently probably they are going next.
>Shitty rules
Like what anon? Marines were literally just updated this new rules are brand new the iron hands were 6+ FNP until now, or you mean that they're superior to the sonic marines with icon of excess? Or you want it for free?, the SM diversity? It's a thing since this brand new supplement.

>>46717607
Pretty much >>46717875

He's skilled enough to fight armies, or campaign on a planetary level, but he's not going to be making huge waves.

>>46717707

>2 of the crisis suits don't have any weapons

Why is there no Dark Elder Get Started box?

>>46717897
I think just making the Palanquin give +1 toughness would be worth 40 points. The main downside to it is that the guy is still only toughness 5. Toughness 6 makes him more durable than a Daemon Prince with just as many wounds.

That said, Jet Pack Calvary on something with guns could be sweet. It'd suffer the same problem of Tzeentch steeds though that there wouldn't be a good unit to stick them with.

>>46712249
I am half tempted to stick this guy in my terminator squad.

>>46717930
Probably because the codex is a joke and GW is working on their new models/rules

>>46717930

Because you have to work your way up to the hard bondage stuff.

>>46717930

no one plays them

>>46717707
Seems fine. Just swap out some of those upgrades for some actual guns on those two crisis suits. Doesn't matter what.

Really, you can't make a bad Tau army.

File: 1454177620767.png (76KB, 662x413px)

76KB, 662x413px

>>46717559
Calls D-bag a Tau player, explains that D-bag has been playing Eldar for years beforehand.

>>46715339
>Librarians can now Earthbend
what a time to be alive

>>46717950

He can only replace generic marines in tactical/assault/devastator squads. The "space marine" he replaces is literally a "space marine" unit, not any faction: space marine model. He can't replace sergeants or veterans or bikes or centurions etc.

>>46712177
Help me decide for 30K, /tg/!
>strawpoll.me/7393020

>>46717975
That's exactly the point, sillybilly.

>>46718019
Go to the HHG

>>46717975
>Not making a product that would increase the low sales of your line, because the line has low sales
See, I was just about to argue, then I remembered it's GW, the guys who took 30 fucking years to figure out that they would make more money and sell more stock if they gave discounts for buying in bulk.

File: hqdefault[1].jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

>>46717984
Because the two groups are clearly delineated, right? There is no overlap between people who just want to play whatever is strongest at the moment?

>>46717996
He can replace any space marine model from any adeptus astartes codex
I am replacing my captain with him, and you can't stop me.

>>46718063
I'm doing both for a little bit more feedback. I really can't decide. I made a pros & cons chart, anon! A pros & cons chart!

Shit is really dire

>>46717756
The difference is that Eldar and Marines can still make fine fluffy lists by avoiding Centurions, or Jet Bikes, or w/e, and they'll be pretty fucking good because the base codexes are still solid.

What got added in the last SM codex? Centurions, formations, chapter tactics were changed, tactical doctrines, etc. Eldar Codex? (I actually don't know this one off the top of my head). All that chaos got in the last codex was Warp Talons, Mutilators, Warp Smiths/Apostles, Dinobots and the Chaos Boon Table. None of these are things that even see play, let alone being useful/good.

We don't even need to go back to 3.5. We just need a codex that A) Actually has some character to it B) Actually has a way to represent the fluff, preferably of a variety of different armies. This isn't even a problem unique to CSM: Orks and Blood Angels also have the same problem with a bland, characterless codex that doesn't translate fluff well nor represent different fluffy armies.

Eldar can represent Biel-Tan with the aspect warhost, Iyanden with Wraith formations, Saim-Hann with jetbikes, etc. Space Marines can represent Salanders with a Gladius w/ Vulcan and lots of flamers, or Deathwatch by combining first company formations with inquisition, or ultramarines with a character + a gladius, etc. The only thing the Chaos god is good at representing is a Lord with appropriate Mark + Spammed cult units, ie the most generic and baseline versions of the four god-specific legions imaginable. How the fuck do I play, say, Night Lords? Or The Scourged?

>>46718086
>He can replace any space marine model from any adeptus astartes codex

Literally the opposite of what the rules say.

You can do whatever you want but don't claim that's what the rules state. He can be used as a doorstop or chewtoy that instantly wins the game by your logic.

>>46718187
>fluffy marine army
>that's good

Not really unless you use the formations.

Only fluffy lists that aren't cheesy netbuilds:

10th Company with cheesy support units like Stormtalons/Quad Mortars

That's about it. Everything else is bike netlist (I guess assault company technically) or uses the battle company/demi formations/deathstars.

You absolutely will not do well with a list like this

1 Captain with no cheesy wargear

10 tactical marines rhino
10 tactical marines foot
5 scouts

1 Dreadnought

5 assault marines

No formations, psykers, allies, etc.

Once you start cheesing out OP psychic abilities, mixing in 5+ detachments of friends, making biker/wolf deathstars, spamming grav, that isn't a "fine fluffy list".

So what's the best way to counter Centurions, Eldar Jetbikes and other cheese?

>>46718241

Buy a wheel of the finest french cheese you can find and set it in your opponent's deployment zone?

>>46717707

>advanced targeting system and early warning override
>no guns

>>46718241
Ogryns. Tee-shirt armour works wonders against Grav-spam.

Last time, my 4 man ogryn squad ripped them to pieces.

>>46718325
They have guns by default, right?

>>46718335

Grav units come with TL bolters and hurricanes.

>>46718358

no

>>46718197
I AM REPLACING MY CAPTAIN WITH HIM AND YOU CAN'T STOP ME

>>46718408
Fine. Feel free to spend 60 points on a model you could get for 14

>>46717028
Im honestly not sure. SA is 6E, I think the fortification "formations" might not be formations as we know it, just a means of fitting multiple fortifications into one fortification force org chart. Maybe. Not sure.

>>46717235
>list tailoring vs. Tyranids

Unless he was fielding 3+ Flyrants, you're a gigantic faggot. Even then, pit some AA in your list beforehand. Swapping loadouts after seeing your opponents models is like sucking a dick - it makes you a faggot.

>>46718083
Great job missing the point. D-bag's are D-bag's irregardless of what faction they play, and obviously the WAAC assholes are going to jump ship when power creep happens. Yet OP still calls the asshole a typical "Tau Player" despite having been in the game for several years with another faction.

Tau get on top of the power curve for once and all of sudden every single Tau player is some WAAC faggot, always has been and always will be.

>>46717210
9 times out of 10, the guy who refuses to play vs. Forgeworld is a waac formation faggot. Aside from the fact that all IA books are 40k legal, refusing to play against FW units in 7th edition is absurdly stupid. FW has nothing as cheesy as the worst GW offenders (except the Doom of Mymeara Eldar stuff, which is the only exception).

>>46718558
>Tau get on top of the power curve for once

Theyve been shitting all over casual metas since their 6th edition update, and the criminally underpriced Riptide was introduced. Taudar, etc.

Lets not pretend the Tau hate is undeserved either, its been pretty well established through everyones real life experiences that Tau players are the biggest dicksucking waac faggots in WH40k.

I don't care how strong the anniversary model is, it's fucking beautiful

>>46718019
Break the tie, /tg/!

File: iron_warriors_knight_titan_by_noveros-d794r29.jpg (195KB, 1280x1446px)

195KB, 1280x1446px

Local tournament coming up. ITC rules; reposting because I didn't get any feedback around two threads back

The sorcs attach themselves with the spawn to hijack Tau triptide units / Stormsurge units / Wraightknights. Void shields are in place to mitigate grav stars. Two knights help the rapier shooting while also give the army stomp attacks against deathstars.

Not entirely sure how the army will go vs battle companies or scat spam.

# 1850 Point list - Tournament List

## Forsworn Knight Detachment - 950

2x Renegade Knight - 475 pts
* 2x Rapid Fire Battle Cannons, Stormspear Rocket Pod

## Cyclopia Cabal - 375 pts

3x Sorcs - 125 pts
* ML lvl 2, Bike, Spell Familiar, VotLW

## Purge Detachment - Renegades of Vraks (425pts)

HQ (45pts)
Renegade Command Squad (45pts)

Elites (110pts)
2x Renegade Chaos Spawn (55pts)

Heavy Support (270pts)
3x Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (70pts)
* Militia Training, 3x Rapier

Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (60pts)
* 3x Rapier

Fortification (100pts)
Void Shield Generator (100pts)
* 3x Projected Void Shields

>>46718645
Sleep on that anon. Its just a beakie with a combi-weapon.

>>46718670
Idk if 2 spawn is enough meatshield to keep those Sorcerers alive.

>>46718558
>>46718636

What does WAAC mean?

>>46718718
In Renegades their spawn come in units of 3 for 55 pts

>>46718728
Win At All Costs,basically powergamers or munchkins.

>>46718728
Win At All Costs

>>46718670
>Chaos "Space Marines"

>>46718728

Who Ams A Communist

>>46718868
Nobody said it was a CSM list. If anything, it's a Renegades and Heretics one. It even has a Renegade knight.

Nothing wrong with a small psyker cabal for allies.

>>46718868

You can make a KDK list with no Daemons. Before formations, competitive C:SM lists had no Space Marines, only Scouts and other non-MEQ. Tyranids are literally just Flyrants.

>>46718187
How dare you complain. Sure, you got two shit supplement rereleases, one of which is essentially a $33 advert for Wulfen book 2, but you also got the Imperial Knight. Everyone knows that what Chaos players really wanted and needed was a copy of the Imperial Knight with exactly zero actual Chaos options.

>>46718953
The way I see it, either this new release actually had a few good things, in which complaining is incredibly whiny and childish, or this new release had absolutely nothing, in which case nothing has changed and complaining is the exact same tedium as it always has been.

Complaining at this point just makes Chaos players look like they won't accept anything. Give them an inch, and they'll reject the inch and ask for a mile instead, despite everyone else being 2 feet ahead.

>>46718953
>Everyone knows that what Chaos players really wanted and needed was a copy of the Imperial Knight with exactly zero actual Chaos options.

It's funny because this is exactly what Chaos players wanted when IKs first came out. Tons of people were even like "let me use a IK as a BB to Chaos".

I used the Imperial Knight Household generation table and because of the interactions between the legendary figure bit and the rest of the household detailes ended up with Joan of Arc in space with a giant mech and an anime as fuck plot structure.

>>46718868
...did I say I was playing CSM? >>46718926 gets it

>>46718718
I have a total of 6 spawn in two squads. I'm hoping that's enough, Seeing as the 12" range thing just makes the spell cost no WL charge as you get an extra dice. If you separate them out a bit you can cast the spell easily enough.

>>46719099

Don't pair spawns with sorcs. protect sorcs by keeping them far far back. Mobile units can move 24"+, and sorcs already have 24" range on many powers, so no need to put them in the fray.

Even 2-3 spawn is enough. They are for fast tarpit/harass duty and are good at their job. 6 is more than enough. Don't expect them to kill heavy targets or last all game. That's not their job, that's why they cost so few points.

>>46719033
So, regardless of what happened, you were going to think Chaos players were whiny retards. Cool story, bro.

Have any of you guys made a farsight out of a regular Tau Commander set?

I'm trying to think where I could get a sword from, and make it so I can swap it out to be a regular guy

>>46719219
>So regardless of why we were whining, you were going to think we were whiny retards

Yeah, no duh.

If the whining was about nerfs or something I could understand, but most of them seem to boil down to 'this one supplement didn't fix all of Chaos' problems'

>>46718235
There are fluffy lists that exist between your dick-useless 'I am 13 and I like these miniatures" strawman list and Imperial Superfriends / Lib Conclave / Bikestar / Gravspam.

>>46719092
Please convert and paint this, or at least write some cool fluff.

>>46715339
Except that power specifies 'Vehicles' get +1AV and 'non-Vehicles' get +1T. Buildings aren't Vehicles, so enjoy your T1 building.

>>46719275
As a CSM player I was hoping for two decurion style detachments since you know we don't have one.

Instead we got a bunch of odd formations some of which do nothing. One of which is great in Tau heavy metas.

CSM, DE, Orcs and 'Nids all need work but I think from the these four CSM have it the worst. Is it really bad to hope for your armies release to change the army enough to get it off the dust shelves?

>>46719275
You know both of the past two Chaos codexes have had pretty wide-spread across the board nerfs, right?

>>46716052
>deep strike
where does it say that?

>>46719368
>CSM have it the worst

I play CSM and you're full of shit.

Orks have it way worse, and Tyranids only have something good in the form of Flyrants. Take that away and Tyranids don't have anything competitive.

Orks are in an even worse boat. Their best anti-tank is meltabombs and the occasional AP 2 gun.

At least Chaos Marines can drop in Raptors or Terminators with Melta behind a tank to kill it. Orks and Tyranids can't do that at all. Chaos Marines also have Melta Nurgle bikers, which are very annoying to take out. They also have BS 4 and actual long-range guns.

In some ways they're even better than Dark Eldar, as they aren't nearly as reliant on cover saves. Heck, Chaos Marines actually get some options for long-ranged Ignores cover, which is more than many armies get.

CSM aren't in a good place to be sure, but they're at the top of low tier. Most of their problems are more related to slightly overcosted units and a lack of fun fluffy rules.

>>46719395
Yes? This supplement also had a few 'nerfs' in it as well, but I don't see people complaining about those.

They're complaining about problems that are totally unrelated to the supplement, while not shutting up about the supplement.

>>46717191
>calls someone a beta cuck faggot
>would walk away from a challenge
*baka*

>>46719317

Go ahead and make one for vanilla marines.

>>46719505
>I get mad about people on the internet complaining
>even when it's largely justified
>I'm a miserable piece of shit that unnecessarily wastes energy on shit that bothers me

Our Chaos bros are completely entitled to a bit of complaining, give them a break ffs. You tards that whine and get hateful over their' complaints are worse than they are.

>>46719317
>insults people who pick miniatures over rules in a miniature wargame
>while simultaneously claiming things aren't OP

Nice try, WAACfag. Your WAAC is showing.

>>46713004
Thank god people understand the struggle of summoning being a primaris power.

I'd like to play a psyker heavy tzeentch list without just winning the game because I wanted cursed earth

>>46719598
It's fine if they want to complain, but they could at least pretend to complain about actual problems

>>46719590
>rising to bait
>not beta

Real alphas don't give a shit. Literal betas (not the meme beta which is actually omega) will fall prey to the challenge and lose because betas do not have the power or convenience of backing down unlike a dominant alpha who can reassert dominance at any time.

>>46719631
you know daemons have to actively opt to swap what power they get for cursed earth due to their chaos primaris?

>>46719505
>I don't see people complaining about those.
That's because you're a blind retard uninterested in anything that doesn't support your view of Chaos players. Multiple times we've had people talking about losing access to Thousand Sons, special characters, and the Draznicht's Ravagers special rule. Before you mention it, there's a world of difference between a ten-point upgrade and a 130 point formation tax.

>>46719631
>>46713004
I actually like the ease of swapping between WAAC summon spam and non-summon spam. I can effectively tune my list for various competitiveness levels just by altering which powers I take and whether I take the Grimoire.

>>46719646

Wish I was you. You obviously have it all worked out.

>>46719275
I don't even play CSM and I don't think it's too much to ask that when you actually get something useful it isn't a minor, fluffless transplant.

If KDK was a loyalist supplement it'd be deemed worthless for merely copy+pasting other data sheets.

>>46719646
streuth

>>46719739

I just watched an animal documentary about pack animals.

>>46719679
>Multiple times we've talked about legitimate gripes
>Now we've decided to move onto meaningless shitposting about how Renegade Knights aren't as good as we wanted

Yeah, that's the issue here, isn't it?

>>46716052
>Shit you can even deep strike these bad boys
You can't DS them

>>46719623
Actually I was claiming that the SM codex can be used to make a list that is, if not tournament competitive, a list that will not get you repeatedly stomped in friendly games, without resorting to cookie cutter netlists. So a large part of that is saying the SM codex is in a good place right now.

Making /choices/ about miniatures over rules is fine, but putting together a slapdash list of units that don't work together shouldn't get you a good army.
Yes it's a miniatures wargame- balance the 'miniatures' part with the 'wargame'.

Also:
Nothing about forcing space marines not to have librarians is fluffy.
Nothing about space marines not allying is fluffy.

>>46719739
>snarky witticism in defeat

Beta spotted. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, maybe try being less of a beta loser and things will work out for you too.

>>46719775

Look at all those extra modifiers to your first sentence that you had to add to justify your point that weren't used int he original arguments.

Yeah no shit C:SM can build non-netlists that don't auto-lose if everyone else is also building weak lists. That's a stupid observation to make.

>>46719632
Just shut the fuck up. Everyone here knows you're a retard except you.

>>46719781
yeh m8, ive genuinely never seen a snarky bitch who wasnt a beta cuck 2bh

>>46719775
>a list that will not get you repeatedly stomped in friendly games, without resorting to cookie cutter netlists

So the exact same as Tau, Eldar, and Necrons?

Thank you for graciously toning down your list so as to have a fair match against my Orks

>>46719775
>Nothing about forcing space marines not to have librarians is fluffy.
>Nothing about space marines not allying is fluffy.

>I'll take WAAC options and claim they aren't WAAC because they also fit the fluff

You know Battle Company is 100% fluffy, right? It's still a WAAC netlist, which was explicitly exempt from what we were discussing. You even previously stated "Imperial super friends" was the extreme end of the WAAC spectrum yet now you advocate Imperial allies.

>>46719678
You're reading Chaos Psychic Focus wrong

>>46719711
It'd be nice to take a powerful daemon list without just winning the game when your rolls are hot though. Often times I find myself asking if I can just reroll malefic powers because two units of horrors hitting possession on turn 1 is just stupid to play against. Cursed earth is damn near necessary to play a daemon list with any semblance of competitiveness, but mass incursion/sacrifice/possession/summoning always threatens to turn the game into "You didn't bring 25 WC yourself? Oh well better hope I peril or fail these manifests with 7 WC each"

>>46719814
>proving his opponent's point
>blind to his own faggotry
>m8

Daily reminder that moot was right about EU and AU posters.

Like, how stupid do you have to be to continue being a retard when people tell you "Yo, you should probably stop being retarded"?

>>46719747
KDK isn't a copy paste. The individual units might be, but it doesn't play like either of the previous codex at all.

It's a bit of a sleeper in how much it changes play, but it is.

KDK is probably the one thing CSM players should complain about, and of the chaos players I know, it's the one thing they like. They just want the other three demonkin

>>46719805
>Out of any actual arguments
>J-just shut up r-retard!

Oooh, how will I ever recover from that one?

I guess I have to leave now. Go ahead and mindlessly bitch about how nothing has changed in peace.

>>46717043
>Why? How?
Bitter poorfags who can't into chinaman

>>46719781
You the big man. The fact you can't bring yourself back down on a anonymous forum proves it.

>>46719849
i was a differnt anon you dumbfuck

i wasnt being snarky, i seriously meant that i havent met a snarky bitch who wasnt a beta cuck.

>>46719678
>cursed earth
*summoning

>>46719847
How so?

Right, explain this shit to me /tg.

Tau player has a Hunter Contingent consisting of a Hunter Cadre and Retaliation Cadre.

Has a Suit Commander with Puretide Chip and MultiSpectrum System Suite. Basically the buff commander. Then, using the Hunter Cadre rule where Coordinated Attack he says that the upgrades work with all of the firers. I let it slide because I could care less. After reading the rules it feels like an outright lie.

For one, the Hunter Contingent says that units need to shoot. The wargear requires the commander to not shoot.

Second, the wargear specifically states that the possessor of said wargear only gives the benefit to the rest of the squad he is with.

Third, it specifically states in the Hunter Contingent that the units in their count as firing at the same time, including the benefits from Markerlights.

Did I just get super hosed /tg or is that really the depth that GW has gone to make this armor that ridiculous.

He had Drones breaking off from Devilfish targeting units to shoot and add to another unit so he could get the 3 unit minimum to buff their BS +1.

Not saying I felt cheated, but that's definitely not how the rules read to me.

1. Declare target and units shooting at target.
2. Units fire together at target, gaining the benefit from Markerlights if any.
3. Resolve shooting and move on to next target.


If so, that was beyond the "balanced" scope that we had intended for our little game day.

>>46719869

You describing yourself there?

>>46719869
>more sarcasm to rebutt calling out of sarcasm
>can't stop responding yet says others can't stop responding
>tries to pre-empt no-win states by either having people stop responding and "winning" or having them "keep responding"

Does writing such hypocritical posts take effort or does it come naturally?

>>46719854
KDK is a T2 codex has some big "What?" moments that just betray some design laziness

That MoK isn't discounted, helbrutes aren't daemons still, and possessed are on the base table is a little disappointing. Slaughtercults and gorepacks are great, they're probably the most competitive way to field any sort of chaos space marine now, but KDK as a whole could use a supplement or FAQ to really make it work. Skulltaker as the only character was a huge misstep.

>>46719880

Tone down that snark there, Beta McCuck.

>>46719973
snark on this
*unzips dick*

>>46719881
I thought you were talking about swapping for cursed earth. My b.

Yes you are correct that chaos psykers have to roll and then decide to swap for the primaris (of non-chaos disciplines) though. My main gripe is that powers like infernal gaze and dark flame are useless so rolling them almost necessitates having a summoning psyker when I'm often just trying to get at least one psyker to have cursed earth. Really makes me wish cursed earth was the actual primaris for malefic so I wouldn't be chancing turning the game into another malefic summoning stompfest.

>>46719823
>Other players responsible for your codex being in a bad way
Yes, I was saying that C:SM is in a good place. I'm sorry about your codex.

>>46719825
So what are we actually valuing here? >>46718235 talks about

>No formations, psykers, allies, etc.

but also

> OP psychic abilities, mixing in 5+ detachments of friends, making biker/wolf deathstars, spamming grav,

My point was that there is a WIDE middle ground between the bullshit restrictions of the former and the blatant WAAC-ery of the latter. You can build lists that aren't netlists, but aren't as deliberately gimped as the bullshit example list given as an argument that C:SM is only good if you go full-WAAC.

>>46719971
KDK could do with some improvements, but Blood Tithe itself is a neat idea. Giving Daemon units both Marks and the Daemon rule is a good change.

Really, once again, the thing bringing down CSM is just tiny changes in point costs. Things that by all rights should be a few points cheaper, but aren't for whatever reason.

>>46719768
That's not why people dislike the Renegade Knight, shitposter-kun.
>>46719854
>KDK is the best CSM release in a decade
>GW decides they aren't going to do any more half-assed cross-overs
What the fuck, GW.
>>46719847
Daemon's being so incredibly luck dependent is a shame.
>>46719881
The way you worded it states that a Chaos player has to swap out whatever power they generate for their god's primaris.

>>46719906
Use the ITC ruling

>>46719906
Yes, it's RAW. Yes, it's stupid.

Have him use the ITC ruling, or just insist on no formations. Otherwise, there's not much to change.

>>46719913
I wasn't the one arguing that backing down from a challenge is the sign of the alpha.

>>46719950
all these alphas getting so riled up by the beta arguing with them. If only they could be
> a dominant alpha who can reassert dominance at any time.

Face it guys we play 40k, should tell you everything you need to know.

>>46719971
it had flaws, but as an idea it was a good one. It did something new, unique, fun to play and fluffy.

While the Chaos players I know will comment on flaws in the codex, and none think it is top tier power, they happy that it exists. They're glad that GW at least tried something like that.

There is a difference between wanting the thing you got to be a little more refined, and not getting something you wanted at all

>>46720010
Assuming you're taking the WFH, Dark Flame as a WC1 Torrent Heavy Flamer is pretty good. Infernal Gaze can also be okay against parking lots.

>>46720039
Blood tithe is the single most under-rated army mechanic in the game, and it's not close.

>>46720040
Daemons aren't SOOO luck dependent, especially now with the decurion that let's you avoid 2s and 4s on the warp storm table. The issue has usually been that the mechanics they give you to improve your odds can be massed in such a way that you effective play a one player game. If a daemon player has hot rolls on summoning/warp storm/psychic powers/grimoire you are probably losing while everything you do caroms harmlessly off a 2++ or 3++ save.

>>46718953
>CSM bitch for thing
>received thing
>it's no fair I want thing +
Fuck off

As >>46719083 said you received exactly what you wanted, asking for the thing but better is bullshit.

>>46719906
I just checked my copy. By the wording, he played it right.

File: Capture.png (40KB, 667x226px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 667x226px

>>46716926
Not that anon, but he's probably (rightfully) ignoring you, but if you actually open that book, you'd see the very first line is pic related.
>also known as the Imperial Guard

Keep in mind your claim was
>imperial guard dont exist anymore :^)

File: 1437253880539.jpg (8KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 225x225px

>>46720098
>Face it guys we play 40k, should tell you everything you need to know.
i dont play 40k, 40k is some beta cuck shit

>>46719368
GW probably didn't wanted to rush in a hurry this time after the Ghazkull supplement fiasco.

>>46720104
Dark flame and infernal gaze get some mileage out of the WFH, but they still suffer from the fact that no one is rolling malefic for a shooting power.

It's like the AV power on pyromancy, the whole tree is otherwise dedicated to killing infantry so rolling the AV power, regardless of its own utility, ends up fucking you over.

>>46720104
That being said, I actually like the summoning power on change now.

Getting an exalted flamer or a burning chariot on the go is pretty fucking nice.

>>46720231
I recommend reading the rule book before asking questions. You can get the rulebook from the links in the OP.

File: TheFuh.jpg (25KB, 413x322px)

25KB, 413x322px

>>46720064
I just don't think I will play against that, but then again I don't know. His interpretation made me feel like it was that terrible transition from 5th to 6th when everyone started to shit on people with Necrons, GK, Leafblower, Space Yiffs, and Blood Angel MSU all over again. Ended up tying, he blames the Tactical Objective cards.

>>46720085
To me, it was him using RAI as opposed to RAW. The rules as written to me say that he would not get that benefit due to not actually being a part of the squad, though they all resolve their shots at the same time.

I don't mind formations, but I don't like when people start mixing things like a piece of wargear that is clearly states it must be used within the squad. If he brings it again, I would probably play against it, but I doubt I will be as forgiving with my stuff.

Either way, it didn't seem fun to play against, but oh well. He also got lucky when he had "Gone to Ground" in Ruins for a 3+ Cover Save and passed 10/13 Grav Cannon saves and passed two of the ensuing FNP saves. I was hoping to squeeze in a Slay the Warlord. The next turn? He focuses one Riptide blast with a Rapid Firing Plasma Suit. Kills my Warlord and 3 Kataphron Breachers.

Turrible, turrible.