Warhammer 40k general.

The only thing breaking the game is WAAC faggots.
If you don't play them, they can't break the game.

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>>46690185

>tfw with this new Imperial Knight game people who don't play CSM will lecture us that CSM armies made up of cultists, daemons, and Chaos Knights but no Chaos Marines are the true essence of CSM armies and the way CSM are meant to be played

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Tau are clones.

>>46690238
Im just happy my bro gets a knight to play with. He started the game as CSM and really wanted big, daemonic titans to play vs my Broadside/vespid mobs

>>46690238
Better yet, you'll get people encouraging Orks to take Chaos Knights as looted ones, since they're AoC.

>>46690229
>the only thing breaking the game is 75% of the playerbase
>just dont play the game
k

>>46690283
If it makes a game with orks fun, and its a decent conversion, i really wouldnt mind.

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>>46690229

>le GW is not guilty for making a shitty product and has no responsibility towards the gaming community to put out a good clean game meme

Get out.

>>46690238
I actually like the new knight game. It's more than $100 in savings, plus the chaos knight rukes will let me use them with the Dark Vengeance set, so I can build both armies up, as well as introduce my friends to the game.

That, and a one on one knight batlle game sounds cool.

>>46690283
Actually, I'd love to see some cool 'looted' knights, can't wait to see pics of Orky Knights.

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Reposting from the last thread:

Are the Deathwing Terminators actually worth 5 more points than than vanilla Terminators ?

Their special rules seem mostly redundant or inferior to Chapter Tactics, their formation can be smaller but worse than the vanilla formations, the unit that carries teleport homers for them are more expensive and can't infiltrate. Their only advantage seems to be the ability to take mixed weapon, THSS with CML and having twin-link when they deep strike, but does that really compare to say doctrines or 6+ FNP on everyone ?

>fearless is in some cases worse than ATSKNF
>stubborn is useless with fearless
>overwatch at BS2 when almost no one is going to assault them and they should be the ones assaulting
>hatred against an already handicapped faction

Painting guides where?

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>>46690366

Why do Space Marines send Terminators to fight Genestealers?

- Their armour offers no protection against the Genestealer's claws
- Their armour is large and cumbersome, making it a liability in the cramped spaces of a space hulk
- Rarity of the armour means they won't be deploying as many men

Am I missing something?

>>46690412
Because Space Marines are idiots.

Alternatively, storm bolters/CCWs are effective and terminator armor offers a bit more protection than power armor in the same situation? Also, cramped corridors make numbers all but useless- it's going to come down to how quickly the lead guy dies.

>>46690398
especially tyranid

>>46690398
Go to the wip thread.

>>46690412
Because as stupid as it is, this IS the imperium we're talking about, so terminators are the ones who have WON the HONOR of being first onto the murdership.

>>46690532
Plus, old fluff about termie armor being meant for dangerous environments and such.

>>46690412
>- Their armour offers no protection against the Genestealer's claws

More than power armour, and it does offer good protection against all sorts of other hazards one might encounter inside a space hulk.

>- Their armour is large and cumbersome, making it a liability in the cramped spaces of a space hulk

How much smaller and maneuverable is power armour in those same cramped spaces? At least when caught in a fight, you're better protected. Confined spaces don't give you much room to dodge or run around the enemy, if you haven't noticed.

>- Rarity of the armour means they won't be deploying as many men

How many were you planning on sending in? Were you planning on filling the space a terminator squad takes with more marines? How does that make it less cramped?

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Thoughts on this symbol for a Custom Sept?

>>46690588

Looks like an emoji

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Since I asked this almost at the end of the last thread I will repost it here since I think this might need to get discussed more doing higher traffic hours: with that new game coming we will get cheaper Knights, meaning a lot more Imperial Knight armies. How do you think the meta will adjust ?

More anti-armor like in 6E to destroy them, even more mobile units with jink to ignore them and win through objectives or just refusing to play them hoping they stop bringing them ?

>>46690412
It is because most space hulks a filled with such a large amount of fuck off radiation nothing more than terminator armor can keep a space marine from literally being filled to death with tumors.

Also, teleportaition ability(at least in a limited capacity) allowing for rapid deployment and, if required and possible, rapid retreat. In addition terminators can carry far heavier personal weapopns, assault cannons, heavy flamers, Chainfists, Stormbolter, thunder hammers and the like. This allows them to better deal with dangerous Genestealers easier than a bog standard marine.

In addition, Termies are 1st company vets and therefore far superior soldiers to most other Space marines, the Termie armor also has more advanced targeting, life support and other systems than regular power armor.

It actually makes a lot more sense when you really look into it

>>46690577


The rules make it seem like a bunch of guardmen with flamers would be the obvious choice.

A standard guardmen with a harzard envirokit and a flamer is common, inexpenvise and just as effective as a rare highly trained over equipped terminator

>>46690307
You notice they never mention which game they are referring to right?
>Checkmate PP shill

>>46690277
Rules for chaos knights are old news. I have yet to hear anything special about this new one

>Assault from DS becomes the norm but overwatch is no longer done in snap shots.
Y/N?

>>46690687
It's non-FW rules for a chaos knight - that's a pretty big change as many tournaments and clubs limit the amount of forgeworld (pointswise) you can bring.

>>46690412
>Their armour offers no protection against the Genestealer's claws

This is something that has not only never made any sense at all (no, I don't care how sharp your claws are, Terminator armour literally tanks minor molecular distortion fields and survives mostly intact) but also something that isn't really heavily established that much in newer fluff. Not to mention the free forcefield that comes with suits of Terminator armour which, unlike TT, isn't some random chance protection thing, it's an actively protective field that screws over assaults.

>>46690723

> Tyranids, Orks and CSM infantry are now even more fucked than before

We want less one-hit wonders, not more. Reducing DS to Snap-fire would be the change, if any.

>>46690723
I'd rather
>charge range is d6+6 in any situation you can currently charge (including formations), 2d6 in any situation where you currently can't (reserves, disembarking non-assault transport, etc)

>>46690723
>N
Also remove overwatch and change charging distance to 6+d6".

>>46690681
>rules

Crunch doesn't equal fluff.

>A standard guardmen with a harzard envirokit and a flamer is common, inexpenvise and just as effective as a rare highly trained over equipped terminator

Of course you need to have a regiment of guardsmen with that sort of equipment read at all times, patrolling space, ready to jump in at a moment's notice, and you'd need to have a lot of them, since SM cruisers rarely contain many Marines, but a Guard transporter is intended to house an entire regiment, because it's the smallest unit size the Imperium deals with. Then you also have the issue of the dudes surviving anything else that's in there, like automated defences, daemons, etc. Or the fact that regular humans might not be so inclined to get inside a derelict vehicle that's been lost in the warp for eons, equipped only with a space suit and a flamer.

>>46690723
How about you don't snap shot overwatch against assaults from deep-strike instead? Basically gives whatever unit you decide to target interceptor.

>>46690412
I got told by the old guard guy who runs the GW near me that they released rules for power armoured marines in space hulk in a white dwarf mag year ago and using them was even more of a face roll for the stealers than usual.

>>46690603

>emoji

What do you mean by that?

>>46690803
>free forcefield that comes with suits of Terminator armour

I keep hearing this, but the only terminator armour I've ever read containing a force field has been the Cataphractii.

>>46690681
That's how the orks do it anyway. Burnaboyz cut out doorways through the hulks and make anything they come across do the burny dance as they go. No doubt they accidentally cross paths with each other too.

>>46690723
>Assault phase renamed 'Second Tau shooting phase'

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new nids end of may?

>>46690687
He was sketchy about bringing non-standard models to the local store. Most folks dont use FW around here, and dont even know what a recast is.

>>46690815
I like this suggestion

>>46690412
As many people said hulks are dangerous and termie armor keeps the zog off radiation away. Terminators have a better chance of living than regular marines.

>>46690865

> Wings are a 100pt upgrade that also lowers T, Leeches reduced to S5,
> Decurion with Pyrovores in the base formation

>>46690838
what is a 5++ invuln save

>>46690268
Vat grown, differences exist.

>>46690681
There's always more than just stealers in hulks 78% of the time.

Best way to run Dakka Orks?

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>>46690320
>a one on one knight batlle game sounds cool.
But they already made that a long time ago

>>46691003
Add more dakka.

Next question.

>>46691003
3 CADS
Each a Looted Wagon, Lootas and a Mek Gun unit, one lead by a Big Mek and two with Weird Boyz, add Grots.
Why do you want to shoot with BS2?

>>46691117
He's going up against an assault non-auxilliary Tau army who refuse to use Markerlights and are always advancing, clearly. Some sort of whacky balance-game.

>>46691028
What's the best dakka?

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>>46691162
More dakka is the best dakka.

CSM can summon Daemons right? I coulda sworn I read that somewhere and was planning on getting some, but the CSM Codex only lists Pyromancy, Biomancy, and Telepathy, but not Daemonology as their disciplines.

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>>46691243 iz right!

>>46691252

CSM was written before Daemonology existed so it won't mention it. But the rulebook says that everyone gets it.
Note that CSM don't get any special priveleges and will Peril just as hard as any other Psyker.

>>46691162
Dakka jets
Dakka boys
Dakka trucks
Dakka wagons
Dakka meks
Dakka nobs
Dakka kopters
Dakka guns
Dakka kans
Dakka dreads
Dakka naughts

>>46691252
Because csm codex is 6e
7e brb states everyone can do daemonology except for restrictions specific to gk and chaos daemons

>>46691252
Well, the codex predates the discipline by 2 years, you have to look into the 7th ed rulebook and/or the FAQ

>>46690866
>He was sketchy about bringing non-standard models to the local store
Isn't the new knight just a knight with a chaos paint job?

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>Be me and friend going to a comic store so friend can get some stupid expensive magic card.
>Get to random card store, mediocre at best, see big 40k game in back
>Big Apoc battle, 2v2
>SaimHann with a titan and a couple scorpions + Lots of orks and a stompa or two
> Other side has a pretty good Ultramarine force for one guy, other, older gentleman has only a few DA squads on table
>Seems unbalanced
>ask where the rest of the marines are
> told to check the back table
>80+ Deathwing Terminators
>Holyshit.jpg
>Turns out the old man owns then entire deathwing
> All Nicely painted
>Old (read 70ish) man shows me a number of seargents for his squad
>Well converted, all named.
>notice some have girls names
>ask
>"oh those are my granddaughters"
>turns out he named each sargent after his children or grandchildren
>He takes picture of the models at cool points
> tells his familiy stories of their marine counterparts when they visit
>grandkids love it
>UltraBro turns out to be the old man's son
>explains later that the Old Man's family bought him the Apoc bundle for the Deathwing all those years ago, back when you actually saved money when it came out.
>Explains that the old man lost his wife around the time and went through a year of sever depression,
>she meant the world to him, gave him 5 kids, all with grandkids.
>Given the Deathwing and painted the whole thing over a year as part of art therapy
>Brought him back from the brink
>built the army with his kids and grandkids
>some models show with bad glue jobs
>the old man is proudest of those
>6 year old grandson helped him with those
>Goddamn the feels
>UltraBro tells me that there is aDreadnaught with his wife's name.
>Its never seen play, most beloved
>sits in the study, surrounded by pictures of their children and grandchilden.
>friend got his card, tells me to hurry up
> I leave, see old man waving with the most happy look on his face.

Emperor speed Deathwing Old Guy... May your saves always be 5s and 6s.

>>46690926
>>46690268
So are there tau trueborn? Is that what the ethereals are?

>>46691279
>>46691287
>>46691299
Thanks guys. Thought I was going crazy.

>>46690366
Don't forget Split Fire and the ability to run and shoot or vice versa in the turn they arrive by deep strike.

>>46691334
What the fuck Anon...
I'm now stuck thinking of this kind old grampa scooping up his grandson and telling him the story of when the kid's Dad punched the shit out of an Ork Warboss, the warm glow of life coming back into the grey eyes of the grampa as the kid asks to hear more.

Fuck you now I'm all in the feels

>>46691334
Mmm, I was planning on doing the same with my grandparents someday.

I hope he's enjoying life.

>>46691334
>Deathwing Old Guy
Truly an inspiration for all

>>46691334
Someone make a 1d4chan page about this guy already, and post pictures.
This is your new quest brothers, do not fail me.

>>46690366
They get a fair amount of special rules, though they have to deep strike to benefit from half of them.

The outstanding one that escaped me for awhile was them being twin-linked the turn they deep strike due to vengeful strike.

Also stubborn could be useful for ignoring negative LD modifiers outside normal morale tests.

>>46691362
Nahh can't mention actual useful rules, ruins the biased comparison.

I think that in general the TDAs are priced "appropriately" based on current weapon upgrades.

That said it's Powerfists (and most melee upgrades) being overpriced that makes them too expensive.
Drop PFs and equalivant across the board by 5pts, makes all Tactical Terminators (and Deathwings) 5pts cheaper per model.

>>46691334
Praise the Emperor and the Lion, but I didn't ask for these feels.

>>46691334
>UltraBro tells me that there is aDreadnaught with his wife's name.

Y u do this.

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How does everyone feel about the Auric Patricians?

Are chaos knight just regular Knights, but covered in heresy?

>>46691751
they seem pretty pleb

>>46691751
Please tell me that there's a chapter called the Argent Plebians.

>every WD for this weekend at my shop has missing and duplicate pages all over and won't be going on sale
I wonder how widespread this is.

>>46691756
Tbd. But most likely.

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>>46691334
>tfw you know you will never put such passion and love into your own 40k army

Deathwind Old Guy, raising the bar...
Makes me want to bring out my 4th edition Deathwing Army again.

When I used to play in the early 2000s there was a rule limiting command squads. Started up again recently with my Imperial Guard and found out that rules is gone I guess. I went against a Dark Angel Army that had two different Command Squads (bikers and terminators) is this allowed or is it some form of formation trickery.
I can't even remember if it was actually a rule or if it was a house rule now.

>>46691132
Farsight with 40 naked crisis suits will tear Orks a new asshole. That preferred enemy, T4 S5 3+ 2W jet pack monster.

>>46690185
Are tau etherals actually tau? Or are they from a separate species

>>46691751

Looks like a Sigmarine to me...

>>46691945
>Farsight with 40 naked crisis suits
I think if, god forbid, I ever played tau that is the army I would build.

>>46691334
why am i sad now?

>>46690412
Is power armour better than terminator armour in a space hulk?

So I here a lot of complaints about 2+ termi save being pointless. Mostly by the sort of whinging idiots you find online, and the more intelligent ones seem to go with 'it's overcosted' or 'not enough' which are both fair.

Because there seems to have been a move to make 2+ saves rarer. Eldar don't get it outside of named characters, Necrons lost their option or it, and Nids lost there upgrade option for it.

Now I'm not suggestion that Nids needed a nerf, but I like the idea that the imperium being able to put 2+ armor on a fairly large number of troops being rather unique. Part of why don't like the Riptide being 2+, Broadsides worked because I kinda liked the idea that the Tau just had to layer tons of armor to get as much protection as Termi armor, leaving something that's much bigger and even less manuverable.

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>>46692044
If you followed any of the other responses you would have the answer.
>>46690577 did a good job
as did >>46690625
and a few of the others after reiterated them.

I hope this is your only (you) for being so dumb.

>>46691867
It's allowed, limit one per HQ I think.

and they're different units so they both have separate limits

>>46692103
I agree with you on Riptides. The Tau would have been trying to cut out as much weight as possible just to make sure the thing got off the ground. Having broadside armor goes against that.

Its not like it would even hurt its survivability that much. Just makes small arms fire a more reasonable option against it.

>>46691777
We'll there is now

>>46691362
>Don't forget Split Fire
Forgot that one, my bad.
>and the ability to run and shoot or vice versa in the turn they arrive by deep strike.
Formation/foc only and comparing formations/FoCs with other codexes is even worse: extra shots/attacks, DS turn one, Preferred Enemy (everything), etc.

>>46691477
>I think that in general the TDAs are priced "appropriately" based on current weapon upgrades.
Are you retarded.

They're a single wound T1 model with just two attacks. The equipment isn't priced appropriately for them. They aren't priced appropriately.

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>>46691334
>Misses his wife so much he metaphorically interred her into a Dreadnought so he feels like he has an everlasting piece of her
>Surrounded by photos of her beloved offspring so she is never alone.

Fuck.

>>46690825
>How about you don't snap shot overwatch against assaults from deep-strike instead?
That's what I was after. It would even the tables a bit and taking damage from one unit is a lot more better than taking damage from an entire army

>>46691334
>all these weak normie motherfuckers still have feelings
kek

>>46692179
>>46692179
yeah, I'm an eldar player (I've like the aspect warrior stuff for years, and use them not the bike wraith cheese).
And while I agree the Wraithknight is MASSIVELY undercosted, 3+ save makes sense, and T8 is a wraith thing. And those alone aren't the problem, otherwise I'd actually feel like my Wraithlord was worth fielding.

2+ save should be special. And having faced down GK paladins, having W2 would do a lot to make them survivable. I can take those down alright with dedicated anti-tank (not anti-vehicle, anti-tank) but having to use anti-tank weapons against infantry feels pretty terminator armor to me.

>>46691867
What he did was perfectly fine, they used to be limited to one per HQ and were HQ choices themselves but now all command squads are elite units without any limitations.

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>No angels of death in my area
>GW printed like 5 copies
>loads of physic cards

nice try GW

ill still buy ur book tho

>>46690803
>This is something that has not only never made any sense at all (no, I don't care how sharp your claws are, Terminator armour literally tanks minor molecular distortion fields and survives mostly intact)
>Space Hulk, a game where invulnerable marines fight against aliens that can't even scratch the paint job on their terminator armor
Wow, how exiting game...

>>46692176
>>46692341
Ah alright. I didn't call him out either way since they were part of two different formations (he was using two Strike Forces?). That is nice to know though.
I have only played three 7e games thus far but with this new shop it looks like I will be playing more.

>>46692331
At this point, it's not the number of 2+ saves that's the issue, it's the number of AP2 weapons. Virtually every army has an overabundance of affordable AP2 weapons. Unfortunately, a huge number of these are also S8+, which tends to harm the W2 terminator argument (although the biggest impediment is GW's insane pricing on W2 models). I still think that the best option is to make terminators - and only terminators - have a 1+ save. You still die to mass weapon fire, but it saves you from being insta-killed by half the entries in the Eldar book.

>>46691252
EVERYONE gets daemon summoning except Tyranids and Gray Knights, even the Genestealer Patriarch can summon them...

>>46691341
Maybe after the sept population is bigger, it's not a bad colonisation plan with a race that lacks the numbers of the Imperium.

With all this Dark Angel's talk I thought it would be appropriate to ask if this is a good deal:

>1.Dark Angels Battleforce
Ravenwing Command Squad, three fearsomely-beweaponed bikes covered in iconography and plasma talons; a Space Marine Attack Bike with heavy bolter and multi-melta, and a Land Speeder - this one comes with an assault cannon, a heavy flamer, a Typhoon missile launcher, a multi-melta and a heavy bolter. Also included is a Ravenwing Upgrade Frame, meaning this kit contains literally hundreds of components.
>2.Dark Angels: Dark Vengeance Expansion
1 Ravenwing Dark Talon, 3 Ravenwing Black Knights, and 5 Deathwing Knights. It also includes a Space Marines Transfer Sheet, Space Marines Vehicle Transfer Sheet, 1 Large Oval Base, 5 x 40mm round bases and 3 x 40mm round bases.
>3.Sammael
>4. 20 Tacticals
>5. Dark Angels' Codex and Cards

I was chatting with some of the players at the LGS I found and have been leaning towards Space Marines (and after reading about Dark Angels I am not opposed to them). One of the guys I was talking to said he had five armies and had a Dark Angel lot in his unopened pile he would part with for the right price. Everything but the tactical marines are new in box.
I don't know the game or the units enough to know if it is a good deal or what to offer.
He gave me his number and I was thinking about throwing $300 at the hobby to start but if the deal is good I can go above it.

Sorry for the wall of text but just curios if it is a worthwhile purchase and if so what a fair offer would be.

>>46692353
I'm really conflicted on this release. On one hand, I play BT. On the other hand, I play GK. I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of wanting to firebomb GW for working so hard to ignore my army. On the other hand, there is a certain je ne sais quoi about getting terminators with rerollable saves and access to a banishment-like effect that actually works.

>>46692424
I disagree strongly with basically every point you just said.
First 1+ save sounds dumb, but worse actually requires the core rules to be rewritten to allow it. So it a terrible idea.
Second, AP2 weapons are not near as common as I here people whinging about. sure they exist, but they are not cheap and everywhere. And I say this as guy whose basic guns have psedo-rending. Rending is not the same as straight AP2, and the availablity of Rending is not the same thing as the Availablity of AP2.

The S8 AP2 guns you talk about are anti-tank guns, and if your whining about infantry being taken out by anti-tank guns I have 0 sympathy for you. Being overcost, or other problems, I'll listen to. But anti-tank guns killing infantry I will not

>>46692199
PFs are 25pts
SB are 5pt upgrades

Lets compare Honor Guard who have a 2+

Boltgun to Stormbolter is a 5pt upgrade.
Power Weapons are 15pts, difference in price of a Power Weapon and a Fist is 10pts.

40pts for a similarly armed Honor Guard.

Oh wait that's the same cost of a Deathwing. What a twist.

But honestly melee weapons are massively overpriced.

Say if instead melee weapons across the board were cheaper by say 5-10pts.

Then that drops the price to 30-35pts.

But then again, I'm trying to use some point system to describe GW.

>>46692430
craftworld eldar don't. They only get Sanctic just like GK.

>>46691756
If the FW rules are copied, they're daemon knights with the ability to take dirge casters. They can't take carapace weapons, but have typical paladin/errant versions and their chainsword gets +1 on the D table against MCs and GCs

The alignments are varyingly useful, Khorne for 50 points gives you +D3 attacks on the charge and rerollable stomp count though.

What is the likelihood that Militarum Tempestus gets scrapped when the next rulebook comes out?
I don't want to make an army that won't be around for long.

>>46692517
>AP2 weapons are not near as common as I here people whinging about

Maybe in normal games
But at WAAC faggot tier, you've got bike squads that are under 100 points pumping out 6 shots per round of ap2 get wrecked

If you remove grav guns from the equation, then yes you are correct

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>>46690588
Most sept symbols have the small circle tends to represent the sun over that world, and is usually in the top half of the iconography, which helps the viewer see their world as ascendant. N'Dras (the official one with the circle at the bottom) has been voluntarily abandoned and is either some secret military training/development world or has had a serious disaster occur, akin to a necron tomb awakening or a chaos gate opening.

Yours at the bottom makes me wonder what has happened to it to symbolize the world being in decline or stagnation. I'd say flip it unless you've got a good fluff reason. If it looks too much like a cheering guy, rotate it 45 degrees after flipping, to break up that vertical symmetricality. I don't remember off the top of my head if the angle means something specific.

The fiddly bits of the Tau Sept symbols also represent something, usually very simply. Figure out what those angly things mean to you. Maybe this set of worlds was in the damocles gulf, and those lines represent being walled off from the empire after the events of Mont'ka, (which could explain why the "sun" is at the bottom).

Lastly, to keep your sept symbol contemporary, pick a sept color, and add it in border around the emblem, with a number of "notches" in that border to represent which sphere of expansion the colony was founded in.

>>46692487
If most stuff is unpainted/on sprue then yeah it's a good deal.

>>46692594
hate to point this out to you but every game can be killed by having a bad play group.
I'm not kidding. The thing that's made me change games most is moving. Not because the new area doesn't have players, but because the players are assholes. The rules have little effect on the ability for a community of assholes to ruin a game.

Now maybe a big competative tournaments this is a thing, but I've never played those.

>>46692487
That would give you a very full CAD and all I could really see you needing after it would be some transports for your tacticals but that isn't bad at all.
Offer him $300 and see what he says, shouldn't be too far off. That is basically the price of 1,2 and 3.
Sammael is a very expensive HQ though so look into the Dark Vengeance Bikes and you can make an Interegator Chaplin, Librarian and a Tech Marine if you buy a bunch more models (or just the DV Librarian and DV Bike for a super cheap ~110pt HQ)
The 6 Black Knights make a great full Command Squad for whoever your HQ is (though you will want to get a Darkshroud for that sweet, sweet rerollable 2+jink).
The Land Speeder and Attack Bike can both take Multi Meltas for a tank popping attack squad as well as mobile teleport for your Deathwing. The DA fliers are fun but I prefer the Dark Talon to the Jet Fighter unless you are specifically bringing it to counter other fliers.

10/10 would buy

>>46691027
White Dwarf has rules for a Knight Dueling game vs a Stormsurge.

why exactly can't the space marine captain/CM buy hellfire rounds anymore?

>>46690185
What'd I miss with this one wound upgrade with 18 inch insta-death? This isn't terminator related is it? Did I miss other rule updates?

>>46692536
A two gun and top missile pod Khorne one would be fantastic.

>>46692594
>But at WAAC faggot tier, you've got bike squads that are under 100 points pumping out 6 shots per round of ap2 get wrecked
Yeah I agree, I am getting pretty sick of the Ravenwing guy at my shop and the ones on here.
115pt Ravenwing Bike Squads get 2 Grav Guns and a Combi Grav
120 Ravenwing Black Knight Squad gets 3 Twin Linked Plasma guns with Skilled Rider and 4 Attacks on the charge.
Triple fuck their jink save
>>46692644
>(though you will want to get a Darkshroud for that sweet, sweet rerollable 2+jink).
and fuck you for telling a new player that is what he should build for.

>>46692517
No one's wining. I'm just saying that W2 terminators will invariably be overcosted. This, coupled with the probability of just being killed outright, makes giving them another wound pretty much pointless.

As it is, terminators are hampered by a role that does not exist in the game at current. They are too expensive for the protection they offer (even worse when considering how little firepower they generally bring). Making them cheaper just ignores their intended role as near-invincible troops. If terminators are to actually be fun and interesting instead of either terrible or too cheap to turn down, something needs to be done about their durability.

Also, the argument about the frequency of AP2 weapons is stupid, as it varies entirely with local meta. The accessibility of AP2 ranged weapons has increased considerably. If the people you play with don't make use of that, you should consider yourself fortunate.

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>>46692673
>What'd I miss with this one wound upgrade with 18 inch insta-death? This isn't terminator related is it? Did I miss other rule updates?
It is the anniversary model, you dingus.

>>46692704
They're all fantastic really. Even the 75 point Tzeentch upgrade that gives you little more than reroll 1s to hit and soul blaze on the bolters.

Having a buffable invuln save on a knight is bonkers. Grimoire + cursed earth and you have an ungodly killing machine near guaranteed to 6 a GC on the D table each assault turn.

>>46692723
>fuck you for telling a new player that is what he should build for.
Sorry I know how to build an army and that you cant pop an AV10 skimmer you piece of shit.

I hope I am that Ravenwing Player at your shop.

What do you consider to be the most essential elements when you write your own fluff for Chapter, Dynasty, Cadre, Warband etc? In what order do you represent it?

>>46692613

Thanks for the criticism. Can I pick two colors? I know it is unorthodox, but I feel like there are not enough variants of lone colors for Sept markings.

>>46692725
Terminator armor rerollable saves (invuln must be rerolled at 5+)?

>>46692763
>What do you consider to be the most essential elements when you write your own fluff for Chapter
A Strong base. So having history is important. How you were pre-founding/ pre-compliance can say a lot about you. Also listing out a good staff so you have important characters among a sea of helmeted grunts goes a long way.

>>46692739
Hadn't seen it before. Guess it's pretty alright at like melta range with chapter tactics.

Definitely looks like a straight upgrade so it'll be in every SM army ever. Don't know if it's any more broken than a regular drop squad with melta desu

>>46691970
All the Tau castes are separate species.

>>46692814
It is a free upgrade friend, they pay no points for it so they can take out some bolter fag for it in a unit and blam there it is.
It isn't much because it is just one model with BS4 with at best 2 shots that can kill itself but it is free instant death and its pistol has it too.

>>46692613
>N'Dras (the official one with the circle at the bottom) has been voluntarily abandoned and is either some secret military training/development world or has had a serious disaster occur, akin to a necron tomb awakening or a chaos gate opening.

I always felt it had to do with the Necrons. I hope they never go into detail and ruin it the mystery.

>>46691970
>>46692834
They can't interbreed, it's not clear if they're originally from the same race or not

>>46692804
I'm always worried about rerollable saves. It tends to polarize combat too much. If two units of terminators without power fists (GK, chaos, that one guy who uses LC) get locked in combat, what happens? If both players are smart, they brought at least one dude with a fist or a hammer, so that one guy is gonna clean up shop while the rest of the squad pretty much just contributes wounds. Also, it's generally bad for gameplay to have a unit that pretty much entirely ignores everything except for a single set of weapons. If anything, all that would result in is making spamming AP2 necessary.

>>46692725
>availablity
I've looked over the codex, and outside of grav, I don't know what you are talking about. Anti-tank weapons area available, but where this massive increase your talking about is I cannot see, and no one seems to mention outside of grav, which I'll admit didn't give enough credit, and rending, which is not the same thing.
And if grav and rending are the problem, then W2 would help with that because it would take twice as many shots to take down.

As for the near-invincible thing, being taken out by an anti-tank gun doesn't prevent that, it's an anti-tank gun you still get an invuln save from.

The only point you have is that slow hard to kill elites might not have roles in the way games play out now.

>>46692842
yeah it doesn't seem much worth getting twisted over but it'll be everywhere and make nid players hate the game even more

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How viable is a 'pure' Inquisition army?
I'm one of the freaks who doesn't ever really play but instead spends huge amounts of money and time converting and painting, but I always try and make things 'legal' so if by some miracle I ever get an opportunity to play I would be able to do so. I've been converting a lot of things for Inq28 recently and I thought making a small Inquisition army might be fun.

I was considering having two Inquisitors with their own warbands and a Valkyrie each, but I wasn't sure if there are any huge weaknesses that would leave me with. Should I ally in some IG or Spess Mahrines? Any tips on the comp of the warbands would be greatly appreciated, I'm leaning towards Acolytes, Priests, Arco-Flagellants and maybe a psyker or two.

>>46692856
It's Chaos.

The behaviour of the Sept Tau matches the behaviour of Tau that were exposed to Chaos.

>>46692919
My shop already houseruled it to 30pts and most Xenos players are refusing proxies of it.
Totally understandable but I feel like 30pts may be too high.

>>46692536
Yeah I always saw the Khorne as the best one simply because the Chainsword buff +D3 attacks. Allows you to wreck big shit.

Also, doesn't it get +1 against Super Heavies? Or is it only MC/GC?

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>>46692939
It isn't viable. They are a support supplement. Anything "pure" under 1000pts is cheese and anything over a shit, sorry.

>>46692887
Do Termies really have the firepower to cause that kind of meta shift, tho? Their guns always feel a little piddly and getting them stick in would require a 200+pt transport or deep striking (which would relegate them to distraction carnifex)

>>46692613
>>46692793

By the way. It's a Sept near a Sunburst (accidental Supernova). It's known for Exotic Matter for Spaceships/Missiles and Espionage.

>>46692971

Ah, okay. Would allying with Guard or maybe even Sisters make them less cheesy and more solid?

>>46692953
Only MC/GC but D fucks vehicles hard already so it's hardly a miss. If you want that D AP1 though you have to spring for the KDE.

>>46692946
yeah that sounds appropriate. Drop marines are already a pain in the dick so I'm sure there aren't too many players excited for turn 1 unavoidable drop, followed by 2 3+ to hit, probably reroll 1s or some shit, S5 ID wounds. EW is so overcosted generally too that raw ID is usually a big deal.

>>46692892
The way you phrased your response leads me to believe that you were referring to only the availability of AP2 in a single codex. I am not. Look at the units and weapons added during 6th and 7th edition. In these units, which invariably become the most popular, AP2 is definitely over-represented.

Using the label "anti-tank" only confuses the argument and gets away from the point. The fact that a weapon is capable of killing a tank does not mean that it is usually used as such. When was the last time you saw a riptide shoot a tank? If anti-tank weapons were actually unambiguously dedicated to this role almost exclusively, I would agree with your point. However, in my experience, I find that "anti-tank" weapons tend to be aimed more often at low-save infantry than at actual tanks. Most vehicles are generally best dealt with either by autocannon (or equivalent) massacre or some variant of meltacide, leaving the rest of the army to direct whatever "anti-tank" weapons it has a surfeit of at anything on a 40mm base.

>>46691751
A shame these guys have no fluff.
Time to claim pragmatists that can use any chapter tactic, just like the Exorcsists and the Blood Ravens!

>Me and the store manager having a discussion about Space Marine Day
>Shows me the neat little balloons and badges along with other little things
>Tells me they only have 35 of the Space Marine Model in the back and 5 will be taken by staff members
>About 5,000 in stock for web orders and around 10,000 total

Jeez they are making these things pretty hard to grab aren't they?

>>46692530
>Oh wait that's the same cost of a Deathwing. What a twist.
And are actually better in a fight, can sweep and fit better in transports, have an additional attack from combination, get a weapon that strike at initiative AND something with AP2, oh my.

>But honestly melee weapons are massively overpriced.
I think I heard that somewhere already.
They're a single wound T1 model with just two attacks. The equipment isn't priced appropriately for them. They aren't priced appropriately.
Oh gee.

>>46692725
Paladins suck because T4. They will get covered in AP2 S8 weaponry. A Lascannon will one hit them. Instant Death. Tau and Eldar laugh at them. They're good in melee against chaff, that's it. They're too expensive in a meta with lots of S8 AP2. 5+, even re-rollable, will just fail.

Hell, Vindicator will squash all of them in one shot. Even IG can do it with Thunderers, Manticores, Deathstrikes. Basilisks are only AP3 iirc though. Medusas are AP2 iirc.

>>46693059
Shame. I need to re-read what the marks give. Tzeentch did re-roll 1's, SoulBlaze on Bolters and +1 Inv? Did that stack with the shield? So it'd be 3++? I can't remember. Nurgle I forget. Slaanesh I forget.

>>46693006
Not as attack platforms, no. Terminators are hilariously underarmed from pretty much any perspective. With rerollable saves, they would make amazing objective takers, however. They would be too expensive to just sit on objectives, but they would make amazing denial and capture units for attacking enemy-held objectives.

Also, never underestimate the influence of distraction carnifexes. Many people are actually dumb-enough to shoot at them, whine, and come back with bigger guns.

>>46693116
I wish terminators stormbolters got rapid fire.
Or if they had access to combi weapons.

>>46693115
Tzeentch is reroll 1s on saves because each daemon knight alignment makes the knight count as a daemon of ""

Only really matters for tzeentch save (which is almost worth the points), Nurgle shrouded, and blind grenades (as well as IWND), and Slaanesh gives you +3 run distance and fleet. Rending/Furious charge are useless but the knight bonuses for slaanesh/khorne are actually not half bad.

>>46693099
Honestly, I think that the problem with paladins is more that they don't actually accomplish much. A GK player would be stupid to engage chaff in melee. If, for some reason, you decide that it's a good idea, you would be better-off trying to kill them first than to actually rely on the durability of your troops. What hurts them the most, though, is that they didn't get a points drop when everything else in the GK codex did. Why take paladins when you can take a fucking dreadknight for cheaper?

>>46693130
Ally CSM

>>46692793
>>46693047
>Can I pick two colors?
I'm not gonna /stop/ you, and you can absolutely do whatever you like. Just know that there're no examples of official septs with two official sept colors. You're off the edge of the "map," lad, and here there be monsters.

Sept color border is rarely used on the emblem when painted on minis, but the sept color itself is represented by pips of the helmet and shoulder pad of the firewarriors, crisis suits, and so on, as well as helmets being entirely painted in the color to represent rank and sergeant-equivalents.

Your army can be whatever color it wants or needs to be to be an effective fighter whereever its theatre of battle is, but the sept color remains immutably tied to their territorial regiment.

So if you feel like keeping your actual army consistent witht he emblem, your sept markings and ranking guys will also be in binary colors. And more colors tends to mean less stealth.

If you're a fucking paint mage, though, I've got an idea for a paintscheme.

>>46693099
I wish they would remove Strength based ID, it would make a lot of bad and mediocre units a lot more viable. It would solve one of the major issues that plagues Tyranid infantry

>>46693099
>Even IG can do it with Thunderers, Manticores,
Manticore is AP4

You did leave out the Leman Russ demolisher and the devil dog.

>>46691279
>CSM don't get any special priveleges and will Peril just as hard as any other Psyker.

Make sure you buy a spell familiar if you plan to do any summoning.
Passing a pyskic test without perils is a lot easier when you use the minimum about of warp charge, and actually possible if you can re-roll a failed test.

>>46693182
Strength based ID is like, necessary, for dealing with the new IH formations though. There are a lot of armies actually that strength based ID is important on because it's the most common form of ID in the game.

Though if strength based ID goes, I hope Warpflame finally gets retooled.

>>46693182
strength based ID is the best core rule that exists in 40k.

>>46692939
Spamming Storm Bolter acolytes can be pretty good. And a bunch of xenos dudes with conversion beamers can be cheesy at lower point levels.

If you want hot shot lasguns scions are better.

Oh, and you could put 12 melta gun acolytes in a Valkyrie and go shit on someone. Since they're technically separate 3 man units, you can pick different targets too.

The new daemon decurion let's you add +1 to warp storm rolls, so what would you write in as a result if they actually expanded the warp storm up to 13 on 2d6?

Free greater daemon? Whole army can run and charge that turn? Automatically have a shooting power resolve against all units it can?

>>46692946
I think 20 is a fair price considering a plasma gun is 15.

>>46693065
I'm using the term anti-tank to mean it CAN be used to take out a tank.

People talk about termis being walking tanks. If they are hit by a thing that can take out a tank, you shouldn't be surprised that they get killed.

and I use antitank instead of antivehicle because stuff like autocannons are actually pretty crap at taking down high AV tanks. And while there has been and increase in AP2, especially S8 AP2 is not cheep and readily available thing you seem to imply.

Again, I'm not saying that termis haven't become underpowered for their points in the current game state, but 2+ saves is still and important thing, and the solution to making them better is certainly not some sort of 1+ save that requires change to the core rules.

>>46691304

Yes. That is why it is more acceptable than the FW variant.

what is the composition of the black templar chapter?

I am really tempted on making a fluffy crusader army.

>>46693158
>Ally CSM
*looks at Deathwing worryingly*

Is the new Termi+lord box just the same old terminators with no swords or did they actually update the box?

>>46693420

1000 guys organized into crusade fleets. The crusade fleets include a Marshall and his household troops, neophytes, tanks, etc.

>>46693130
>24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire

How is this an improvement?

>>46690185
Anyone know which tau codex is the one that has the implication that they are the producers of spyrer suits? IIRC it's from a dictionary sort of portion that lists words and what they mean in english, with words along the lines of "oh'rus" meaning strength.

>>46692103
>2+ should only be fieldable in large quantities by marines

Marines get all the good shit already, so now they should also get the best access to armour? You already have it in the first place, you can outperform literally anyone at anything. Overwatch? Dark angels are miles ahead of Tau. Big shit? You are imperials and get cheap access to knights. Weapons? Grav is literally the best weapon in the game. Tanks? You also have that with your new formation. Horde? Tacticals everywhere with free transports beats any other horde army at their own game. Psychic shenanigans? Your formations and psychic powers makes eldar farseer councils seem like a cute little cultist squad. Speed? You have the best bikes in the game with the best support available. Characters? Smashfucker, and just captains in general if built as beatsticks. Melee? Assault from deepstrike and tons of good melee weapons available.

And you want to nerf shit because "someone else almost has as easy access to armour as we do! THAT SHOULD ONLY BELONG TO MARINES OR BE SUPER RARE WITH HEAVY DRAWBACKS ON EVERYONE ELSE!"

Marine players in a fucking nutshell.

Any more news on the Acastus Knight Porphyrion?

>>46693470
is there an exact composition for the crusade fleet?
I am running a homebrew chapter that is crusading through space (still no name for it after one year....)

What happens if we ally together Chapter Master Smashfucker Prime and Chapter Master Godzilla?

>>46693491
It's Jokero tech.

>>46693508
what does godzilla do?

>>46692594
>marines are good at killing marines, so marines needs a buff.

I wanted to make a punchline, but I can't do better than what you just said. The scary thing is that you are likely conpletely serious.

Marines really are what is killing this game.

>>46693374

A psilencer is 15 points, AP- and STR4. On a model that is already 20 points and has to activate a psychic power for force in order to have ID.

30 points is undercosted.

>>46693362
how do you fit 3 units inside one transport?

>>46693461
Don't worry, it's fine.
I'll explain later.

>>46693529
It's open ended with hints that it comes from all over the place. Jokaero tech is only one possibility.

>>46693543
I call Godzilla the Salamander version of Smashfucker who wields that new sexy thunder hammer.

>>46692939
You have a lot of flexibility in the army, not easy mode but works well. There's nothing bad about a 3 wound terminator with a psycannon and str 6 powerfist for 80 points.

If you add the tempestor book as well, you basically have the same thing as inquisitorial stormtroopers. I'd recommend working out an army using 1-2 inquisitorial detachments with some tempestors for support.

>>46692971
>There's no netlist that shows me how so it's not viable

>>46693571
Either superheavy transport or some SM bullshit. (They can put 2(combat squad) in one already.)

>>46693591
you mean DRAKEFUCKER?

>>46693570
6 shots>rapid fire

>>46693559
Next edition expect a nerf to grav guns
They got moved to the BRB, for this exact purpose

I can't wait for the tears.

>>46692559
Considering that they have not updated Elysium Drop Infantry, which is basically just tempestus++, they are probably going away like the other sub-imp guard stuff.

>>46693618
Yeah thats the only way. Your not getting 3 henchmen squads in a valkyrie

>>46693151
Why take any of their terminators when Purifers and their formation destroy chaff? When the other 3+ stuff is good enough to take stuff out? When Dreadknights are great?

The only missing thing is Psyflemen Dreads.

>>46693624

Rapid Fire>Heavy

>>46693492
>Overwatch? Dark angels are miles ahead of Tau.
What ? If you charge a squad Grav-cannon wielding Dev squad (but who the hell plays DA and doesn't use plasma everywhere) from a Demi Company then okay but we can't ask th other unit with non-gets hot plasma standing next to us to kill that charging unit for us. And you got defensive grenades to compensate so keep DA out of this, I would gladly swap this special rule for something not useless to my army.

>>46693611

So highly mobile, small squads. Sounds fun and fluffy, so I'm more than happy with that. I'd imagine I'll be able to deal with vehicles and higher toughness things quite well, should I rely on the Valkyries for anti-infantry or kit out a squad or Scions with flamers/grenade launchers?

>>46693492
I find it hilarious that I'm guy you are replying to and I play eldar. Which I'll freely admit is a powerful faction, but has no 2+ armor.

Also, while all admit the new SM book has some real fucked up shit in it, I do have to laugh at your comment about farseers and bikes.
Sorry, eldar are still the worst offenders there.

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heh... reroll this, kiddo.

>>46693622
He's clearly Godzilla.

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>>46693268
It could still ignore FNP, just not through the traditional ID way.
>>46693314
Maybe, but it really shits on things like Tyranid Infantry. Stopped fielding Warriors a while back since they are just as squishy as gants when the S8 starts raining from the other side of the table.

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How does one build a versatile wolf guard termi team? I like to okay what you see is what you get and want to be able to roll with one load out as often as possible, same for a team of 3 thunder wolf cav. And a wolf lord. Also, what do you put on a grey hunter wolf guard dude?

So, Subvert Machine. End of Imperial Knight allies ?

>>46693748
*10 AP 4 hits

>>46693748
>Maybe, but it really shits on things like Tyranid Infantry. Stopped fielding Warriors a while back since they are just as squishy as gants when the S8 starts raining from the other side of the table.
thats only a problem because GW are idiots whove been giving strength 8 ap2 out to everybody

>>46693639
EDI are due an update with IA8(?) Second Edition. Which should be 'soon'. Since IA14 doesn't seem to be coming out any time soon and I think I pissed off Forge World too much bugging them...

>>46693680
If only grey knights had access to relentless units.

>>46693775
DE and Orks have S8 AP2 in enough quantity to matter?

>>46693748
instead of solving the problem the way it was already solved before (synapse gives EW) or is rumored to be solved again (the synapse creature itself has EW), lets change a base rule of the game that is seen as positive against basically every other army?

I find this sort of reasoning delightful.

>>46693799
no it's the same guy who instist that W2 on termies would do nothing, because everything has S8 AP2.
He's so stuck on his arguement that he's decided to apply the premise he refuses to admit is faulty to every other argument.

>>46690826
they also released rules for guardsmen in space hulk

your vox guy is there so when the team fucking dies, he can call for another wave

>>46693817
A-are you being sarcastic?

>>46693779

Go on and say it. Say put psilencers on termies, lets see how bad you are.

>>46693762
>how do I even play space wolfs

>>46693886
I wouldn't put them on anything.

>>46693688
Anti-infantry is up to you, most every option is good and works. Hell you could add a psyker to each stormtrooper squad and roll on pyromancy for that.

The planes are expensive and require your reserves to work. Consider bringing a comms relay somehow if you put a lot of crap in reserve. You can take it as an upgrade on many buildings through stronghold assault.

>>46693857
i have no idea what you are talking about you autist

if you dont think that ap2 and high strength shooting is too common in 40k, you are an idiot.

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>>46690901
The 5++ for Indomitus Pattern armor is to represent the durability of Terminator you half-wit. Previously Indomitus Terminator Armor used to only have a 2+ armor save, but as editions marched on and high AP weapons become common GW gave Indomitus armor a 5++ to represent is great durability better (so it didn't just die instantly against powerful guns). Cataphractii pattern armor has a 4++ to represent how it has an actual iron-halo like device built into the pauldrons. It's also why it's slower.

>>46693942

Alright excellent, thanks for your help. Looks like this is feasible after all. Time to start on yet another project I'll get bored of halfway through and abandon.

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>>46691334
The only thing that could make this feelier is if he used the dreadnought model as an urn for his wife.

>>46694008
It's hard to get bored when you can have units of daemonhosts, death cult assassins, space apes, power armor humans rocking stormbolters and still have room left over for planes, tanks and landraiders.

>>46693398
I'm not convinced you actually play the game. If you do, you must play in the absolute most relaxed or scrubbiest meta in the world. Yes, anti-tank weapons should be able to kill terminators. However, there is a distinct overabundance of such weapons. Every single game I've played in these last two editions has involved S8+ AP2 large blasts being thrown around as a regular event. VIndicators are cheap. Riptides are sinfully cheap. Rending (and pseudo-rending) actually do contribute significantly. A single squad of terminators will be destroyed within a turn of firing, every single time (unless storm shields are involved). Multiple terminator units are not practical due to the opportunity cost of not fielding something actually good. A 2+ save means approximately nothing except against battlecannons and missiles.

A 1+ save may not be the best solution, but it does at least address the actual problem. Also, it would not actually require a change of core rules. All it would require is an update in the terminator entry to explain what it means. Many units already have rules that change core gameplay vastly more than the introduction of a 1+ armor save.

>>46693972
>Previously Indomitus Terminator Armor used to only have a 2+ armor save, but as editions marched on and high AP weapons become common GW gave Indomitus armor a 5++ to represent is great durability better
non

Terminator armour used to (in 2nd edition) have a 3+ save, but you could take it on 2D6. Which means you'd pass on anything but snake-eyes, armor modifiers on the weapon notwithstanding.

3rd edition rolled around and ditched the save on 2D6 thing for a flat 2+ save. It was revealed that it was a fucking terrible save for a 250 point, T4, single-wound unit, so they errata'd a 5+ invunlerable save into the mix.

5+ was still a bad save against all the AP2 knocking around even back then, so people just stopped taking terminators until the storm shield got buffed to a 3++ while out of combat (in.. 5th?). You would occasionally see double special weapon terminators in fourth edition, but it wasn't because of their durability.

>>46694061

That does sound awesome. That's one of the reasons I was attracted to the =I=, the sheer eclecticism.

>>46693961
>if you dont think that ap2 and high strength shooting is too common in 40k, you are an idiot.
I agree.
I sure know I am guilty of it.
At 2000pts I bring:
>18 Plas
>6 Grav (including combi)
I have up to four multimeltas in my tank hunter formation but I don't count them as they are actually there for their job where as my Plas/Grav shoots at anything in range that I deem worthy.

>>46694094
This. Terminators used to be incredibly tanky. For reference, 3+ on 2d6 was the same thing Carnifexes got in 2e.

When most armor save modifiers were a -2 or -3, having 2d6 was really nice. Against plasma, you were only looking at a failure on a 5 or so. That means, in 2e, a Plasmagun has worse than 50/50 odds of penetrating a Terminator's armor.

I'd fully support going back to that, although I'm not sure if it would fit into the current rules.

Why not just make terminators T6 and be done with it? They barely cost less than Spyders or other bare monstrous creatures, and have very little in the way of offense.

Today at lgs
> Gw shill tries to get us excited for angels of death
> "Hey guys new powers for Liberians! It's gonna be great!!"
> skim through the broken powers
> one says they can move terrain that's within 24' range
> objective games are pointless with 5 of these librarians grabbing cover then riding terrain with objectives across the board
> age of emperor is here
Gw clearly wants to stop existing or they wouldn't of killed two games.

Question!
So as we already know the ork mek gun is an artillery model but it has wounds and an armor save. The mek can be attached to this unit if it wants to. Does this mean he can repair it? even if it has wounds? if not whats the benefit of attaching him?

>>46694188
Khorne terminators got a 2+ on 2D6, too.

>>46694203
>T7 2+/5++ veterans of the long war
Praise the Plague Father! Blessed be pestilence!

>>46694203
nah they should be t5. s10 isnt that common.

that way nurgle would be t6, nurgle at t7 would be too insane

>>46694238
>2+ on 2d6

That sound terrifying. Literally immune to any guns that aren't lowering their save.

>>46693857
No, he is not the guy who insists "W2 on termies would do nothing". That would be me. I never said it would do nothing. If you actually read and paid attention to arguments, you would have realized that. Giving terminators an extra wound does not resolve their main problem. No one is out there screaming about how their terminators keep on getting massacred by cultists. The main problem terminators have is the commonality of high-strength, low-AP weapons, particularly those with blast. All that is accomplished by giving terminators extra wounds is making them slightly better in CC, which is not a pressing concern.

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>>46694223
Pioneers used to ride these babies for miles

>>46694255
Pretty sure abaddon got the benefit, too. That's back before he lost his arms and was an actual threat on the table.

>>46694247
>T6 2+3++5+++(3+++ with sang priest) IH
fuck flesh

>>46694284
Isn't Lord Topknot still a beat stick?

>>46694223
First, you have to roll a 6 on the table to even have that power. Getting it on 5 librarians would be very good luck.

Second, it's warp charge 3. That means to cast it relaibly, even with a librarius conclave, you're going to want around 5 or 6 charges. That means without a good source of warp charges outside the librarians, you're not going to be casting it with all of them every turn.

Third, it says the models on the terrain move with it, but not any Objectives. While this does mean you can shift cover off of an objective or onto it, you can't just shuffle objectives around the board.

Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing power for the sheer variety of things you can do with it, but it's a warp charge 3 psychic power. You're just as likely to be firing off 5 D blasts a turn using Sanctic.

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>>46694270

>>46694329
He's no SMASHFUCKER PRIME though

>>46694329
hes now worse than a generic space marine captain with cataphractii armor...

>>46694226
No repairing, people use them as cheap LD buffs. Leadership 7 is still awful, but it's not as bad as the ld5 grots have.

>>46694329
If he ever gets to combat, sure, maybe. He'll never get there, though, because lacks options, and he dies absolutely horribly to any anti-TEQ shooting since he only has an iron halo equivalent.

>>46694346
ah cool. well could you technically give them a pain boy?

>>46694255
Cypher had a 4+ invuln on 3d6.

>>46690838
It´s the pauldrons, there´s a force field in the pauldron. They have to try and deflect melta and plasma weaponry with their pauldron, which is why it only grants a 5+.

>>46694075
again, not saying that termies doen't have problems, but I am saying you are wrong in how you see the problem.

In fact you actually pointed it out yourself. Riptides are sinfully cheap. Vindicators have fairly short range and aren't fast, so I'm less inclinded to give you those. But the point is a few overpowered undercost units are skewing the game.

Most of the other AP2 you and others have talked about is not S8+. I could go through the armies if you want, but don't feel like draging it through this. So yes, W2 would help against a lot of armies.

And yes, 1+ would need to change the core rules, because saves can't be increased to better than 2+ by the core rules, and including somethign unititive and bizarre like that should be avoided whenever possible. I've played enough different game systems to know that much.

>>46694223
thanks for the ideas

>>46694355
Of course you can. I think the grots will still get ID'd by bolter fire though.

>>46694381
For Vindicators, the short range doesn't matter as much against Terminators, since if they're Deep-striking or charging into assault, they'll be in range. For a 100 point tank, it's quite threatening to anything that's using armor to try and get in close.

>>46694335
>>46694343
>>46694350
Well Abaddon has T-Rex arms because the Gods haves hardon for dinos and he can't help that. Give Abby some Cataphractii and how sees what happens.

>>46694397
True I was debating on this one. But T7 guns with FNP can be nasty. though is there not a rule for artillery that they cannot shoot the crew?

The problem with marines is both that they currently don't match the fluff at all, and balance wise it's kinda nonsensical just how weak they are compared to say, guardsmen when it comes to a k/d ratio. What should be done is completely restructure the marine armies. Buff the fuck out of marines and terminators, but make them all elite choices with small formations. The bulk of space marine armies is instead made up of militant chapter serfs, who have stats comparable to guardsmen/veteran guardsmen.

>>46694223
>> Gw shill tries to get us excited for angels of death
>> "Hey guys new powers for Liberians! It's gonna be great!!"


How the fuck do shills even shill such shit ideas?

I would give two shits if they spread the new powers out, but limiting them all to marines is retarded.

>>46694461
The rule is that crew are treated as having the same T value as the artillery piece, but I'm on the bus home and don't have a rulebook handy to recheck it for the exact wording on how it works for instant death. Other than that crew can definitely be picked off.

>>46694511
But they do spread them out anon. To Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights. :^)

>>46694461
The grots are still T2 so S4 would instant death them, denying your FnP, but artillery as a special rule that you use the guns toughness when rolling to wound vs the unit meaning the S4 bolters would have to wound vs T7.

Although, you are actually allowed to give the guns a FnP with the painboy it seems.

>>46694075
I'm pretty sure the exact rule is "A saving throw of 1 always fails"

that doesn't preclude 1+ saves

>>46694331
They can choose powers and reroll shit from what I heard. But you can bring a fuck ton of psykers for cheap and wouldn't it make sense that objectives move if models move? They jumped the shark and on the 30th anniversary too

>>46694543
>>46694520
Oh very nice. So if they are shooting it its the T7 but if they are in CC its the grots T2? if im getting this correctly?

>>46694075
>vindicators
>riptides
>rending
That's very well and good but what about the races that don't have easy access to ap2 in the first place, let alone ap1?

I'm pretty sure that the only ap1 weapons Orks get are smasha guns.
>>46694549
yes, the point is you would need an ap1 gun rather than an ap2 gun.

>>46690238
It's funny because when Chaos was starting out it was mostly about heretics and pirates but GW noticed that most Chaos armies consisted of Chaos Space Marines and so they became the focus of the faction.

>>46694610
Yep, because you don't count the guns in close combat.

>>46694520
no, the crew keep their toughness, but the firing unit wounds against the T7 as long as there are guns.

>>46694618
Think I replied to the wrong post by accident.

Meant to reply to >>46694381

>>46694416
well yes, but I find it hard to believe you'd be using assault termies without storm shields. Storm shields being a requirement for all termies is a problem, but having few in a dedicated assault unit seems like a thing you should be doing even without all those problems.

The problem with termies is that they are currently designed to have to take an extreme amount of firepower before they can get in to actually deal out hurt. Holding objectives in the backline is always better done by your heavy shooters.

The game has in general shifted away from being able to troot up the field and punch things. Overwatch being a part of that, though I don't think it's inherently a problem like some do.

I still see 1+ saves as a massive problem, because having AP1 is put on things to make them vehicle killers, melta ect. having that be on termies would radically shift how all weapons would need to be thought of. For example it would mean there is only 1 melee weapon I can think of that could kill termies.

I will admit I tend to think less of truely problem units when I think about how to make termies better, but that because things like Riptides and D-scythes are still problems no matter what you do to termies. Termies might be able to survive their shooting, but they're problems for everything else, and now termies have created their own host of problems.

Basically, don't release snakes to try to cut down on the number of rabits, because that will leave you with a snake problem, and still a rabbit problem.

>>46694626
Lost 'n' Damned and Daemons of Chaos both have their own codexes, the Chaos Space Marine codex is suppose to be about chaos space marines.

>>46694393
No problem senpai also you remember that tau wall and the agis with a quad gun? Just say the magic words "GET OVER HERE!!" And it's yours plus you can shot in psychic phase with some new shit so....

>>46694606
>They can choose powers and reroll shit from what I heard

You can't choose powers. There might be a source of rerolls, but even that isn't going to be reliable to the degree that you'll get 5 instances of it.

>wouldn't it make sense that objectives move if models move?

Wouldn't it also make sense that models can assault from deep-strike?

The rules don't support it, so it doesn't happen. There's also the rules against putting objectives too close together, so arguing that a psychic power would somehow change that is just ridiculous.

Stop interpreting rules wrong or house-ruling so things 'make sense', and then complaining that the game has been ruined by your misconceptions.

>>46694633
Sweet thanks anon

>>46694672
>assault termies

Because non-assault terminators have so many more options for doing things outside of 24" range right?

It doesn't matter which terminators you're talking about, they all have this issue. Assault terminators are slightly better off, but even in that case most people are usually buying just 2 or 3 shields, which won't help the whole squad against a blast.

>>46694694
How much gw pay?

>>46694381
2W cost increase wouldn't offset the fact that most armies have enough AP2 shooting, regardless of strength, to kill terminators. If you make termies 2W they get their cost increased, making them an even bigger point sink for underwhelming offense, and even armies that aren't IDing them are probably wasting the entire expensive squad in one turn regardless.

Whoever said previously that they suffer from fulfilling a non-existent need had it correct. They try to do a lot of things well instead of doing one thing great and typically end up accomplishing a minor task and then giving back their points by the next turn.

>>46694669
that's why I was saying that 1+ save would be a bad solution.

The solution is first, address problem units like Ripetides (admittedly the best way to do this is the one GW will never do, which is balance erratta to reduce the power, or a points errata.)

second, consider the problem of the termies role, what are they supposed to do. Because the current problem is they don't DO things.
To give an example. I love me my Howling Banshees, but for a long time they were the worst because they couldn't do the thing they wanted to do. Now they still aren't something I take because what they do is pretty damn niche and they aren't much good outside it, but they do do the thing they were meant to do before.

>>46693762
Wolf Guard are for making melee HQ's even scarier in my opinion. Pop some frost axes on those bitches, put that in with a termie Wolf Lord, roll around killing shit with 2+ armor.

My local doesn't use a lot of AP2 though, so if you're in a shittier place then I don't know.

>>46694733
>How much gw pay?
Not even him but just because you can't understand the rules and want to add shit on to make it sound even worse writes you off as a complete retard.
>hur durr some random fag somewhere at some time said they can pick their powers
Sorry, not even Marines can do that you retard.

There are plenty of legit things to complain about.

Is it really just the same one or two fags that insist on there being shills? two threads ago with Manufacturing Anon the thread devolved the same way.

>>46693461
Oh please, the Dark Angels are about as loyal as a white girl in clear heels.

>>46694726
>won't help against blast
You do know that blasts still start their wounds from the front unless they are barrage?
So yes, they do help the whole squad just as much as it would against targeted shooting.

>>46694761
you're assuming the big price increase, which seems fucking odd when where talking about a unit that's too weak and needs a buff.

This isn't a question of what GW would do because GW is often stupid about things like that. It's about what should be done to actually help them accomplish their roles. would W2 without a point increase help this, without making them too powerful.

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>>46693738
Nah, he's clearly Havel The Rock.

>>46694870

But Paladins are an example of how that isn't going to happen. GW overvalues wounds.

>>46694870
But wounds are notoriously over-costed, it's one thing to theorize what can be done to help, but another to assume any change from the current stats wouldn't be considered relative to where we are now. If they got 2W they'd still get wasted by a unit of plasma shooting, even if it wasn't S8 and they'd likely cost a boatload if paladins are any indication.

A 4++ native save for terminator armor might help them control cost a little more while actually getting some opportunity to swing/stay on the board for more than a turn, and that's likely a more justifiable free addition than a full wound.

>>46694381
Vindicators are fucking terrifying when you only have access to 24" range guns. The core rules do not matter, as codex ruling overrides main book rulings. Also, the unintuitive argument holds little water with 40k, to be honest.

Other than that, I actually totally agree with you. I would much, much rather see half the shit in the game hit with a nerfbat until it makes sense. Unfortunately, I believe that there is a better chance of terminators being T12 with 40 wounds than GW ever nerfing a model that sells well. I'd much rather the game be reigned in than to propagate the nonsense.

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>>46693507
Here's an example of a crusade. Crusades dont have a composition because they are made up on the spot and to answer the specific enemy that they'll face. When a crusade gets too big a Marshall will divide his forces into Fighting Companies which are led by Castellans (Sword Brethren chosen to lead).

>>46694958
>A 4++ native save for terminator armor might help them

No it wont, its nice but not a game changer, its been in 30k for the past 4 years and Terminators are still looked down on as expensive bullshit.

>>46694618
I think that we can all agree that the problem with orks is not the availability of AP1 weapons, regardless of what kinds of saves are available. There is pretty much nothing that can happen in this game that would make things worse for them.

>>46694931
but that isn't the question. So you're answer is pointless.

Yes, GW overvalues wounds (except on MC GC that they underprice), but the question wasnt "how will GW fix termies". Because the answer seems to be they won't. The answer is what SHOULD be done to help termies fit there role.
and while paladins are overcost to the point of near uselessness, having played against them, they ARE significantly harder to take out than normal termies. So it's the point increase that is the problem, not the idea itself.

Besides, it not completely out of the question that someone might give them the buff they need and point reduction. It happened to the Howling Banshees. It would be like lightning striking twice, but that's not the point.

What would be the best decision? Not the decision GW would make.

>>46695015
I don't play 30k so I can't speak for that.

But I think a 4++ would remedy their staying power problem against AP2 guns at least slightly. Make stormshields cost a little less as well since they're much less likely to be taken with a 4++ native anyway.

Put rapid fire on the storm bolter too. Giving them a 12" Assault 4 gun base would make them less likely to get tarpitted, and increase their effectiveness in clearing light infantry/vehicles or applying wounds to MCs before getting into assault. Having better anti-infantry shooting base would free up some points for more useful heavy weapons.

One of their other big issues is the lack of AP2 at initiative. PFists are great but terminators are all-stars at getting into combat with an MC, failing to wound at initiative, and then getting removed cleanly by smash attacks.

CSM list 1844, A mix of models that I have and those that I think look cool and will get, plan is to have lots of threats on the board initial fast assault units with vindicator and hellcult rolling behind hopefully unharmed before they can do something, and pink horrors dropping on a objective and summoning as needed. hopefully will clear any anti air threats by the time my helldrake arrives, using hellbrutes as extra armor on the field. Will this fair decent?

Chaos Lord, Bike, MON, VoTLW, claws, fist, Melta bombs, SoC "175

Hellbrute Multi Melta, fist "100
Hellbrute Multi melta, fist "100

10 x Chaos cultist "50
10 x Chaos cultist "50

5 x Chaos Bikers MON, VoTLW "145
4 x Chaos Spawns MON "144
Helldrake Baleflamer "170

Chaos Vindicator Daemonic possesion, "135
Maulerfiend, Magma Cutters "125
Maulerfiend, Magma Cutters "125

Formation Hellcult 300
Hellbrute Plasma Cannon, fist
20 x Cultist x 2 Flamers "95
20 x Cultist x 2 Flamers "95

Allied Daemons

Tzeench Herald ML2 "70
15 x Pink Horrors of Tzeench, Instrument, Icon "155

>>46695160
All GW needed to do was give all the things that centurions have to terminators

>Each gets an option for heavy weapon+cyclone
>+1T and ignore unwieldy

Done, termies are ok.

>let terminators re-roll 2+ and 5+ saves
>give them access to sustained fire so they can double-tap with basic weapons
>make reaper autocannons and assault cannons better
bing bang boom, terminators both loyal and traitor fixed

>nobs/meganobs get T5 and less retarded weapon options (like fucking power weapons)
>KFFs bubble again
whoppo, there's a dent on orks too

>>46695220
Why take an instrument? Planning on deep striking other daemons?

It's not a bad list all things considered. Helbrutes aren't terrible, nurgle bikers aren't bad either. You may want to look into the new black legion formation if you're planning on taking two -fiends though. I don't see any anti-air to actually clear fliers before your heldrake comes on.

>>46695160
It's always kinda baffled me that terminators have no option for at-initiative AP2 weapons. Keeping those weapons to a minimum is obviously a good thing, but giving it to terminators only makes sense from a design perspective. They have access to at-initiative AP3 weapons, so everything 3+ or worse isn't affected. From there, everything with a 2+ save is either a terminator, an MC, or something that is going to be slaughtered in melee by just about anything anyway. All that a strength user AP2 at-initiative weapon would do to terminators, on terminators is let them kill each other at a higher initiative. I don't see why they don't get an upgrade option for this.

>>46695301
Autocannons and assault cannons don't need to be better, you just need to be able to take more than one of them. You could let a terminator take a demolisher cannon for all I care and it won't make the unit any more interesting. It'll just be that one dude with a demolisher cannon and a bunch of "wounds" on 40mm bases. The one special weapon per squad rule is dumb and needs to go away. It sucks to play with and it's offensive from a fluff perspective. This guy is so damn important and trusted that he's wearing the toughest and one of the rarest pieces of equipment in the galaxy, yet you won't allow him to carry anything but a fucking storm bolter? Even 4-point acolytes can take storm bolters. Hell, they can even take plasma guns and storm shields.

>>46695348
ill have to reread the rules but thought id need instrument to reliably deep strike my pink horrors. ill look into the formation for sure and for anti air id just ignore them and focus on raping the ground units. i meant ground anti air there arent many good choices in reliable anti air in daemon or CSM codex so i figure if there is a abundance of air units it makes destroying the ground units far easier.

Any links to the angels of death supplement yet?

>>46695466

http://www.blacklibrary.com/prod-home/prod-home-whd/angels-of-death-tablet.html

Here you are my friend :^)

>>46695421
That's why I said give them sustained fire back, m809. Even makes sense from a fluff perspective, since the terminator suits are going to be the only things capable of controlling that kind of recoil.

>>46695466
Dude, it hasn't been released yet. It will be in three hours.

>>46695547
That would help, but I would honestly rather see them have the option to take more weapons. They're an iconic unit, yet they're about as boring as anything in the game gets. It's not just about making them actually be able to kill things, they also should be reasonably fun to field. There is literally nothing fun about storm bolters.

>>46695367
SW get frost claws now that are +1 S AP2 now so they've got that going for them. Perhaps the issue is that for any terminator to be hitting you at S5 or greater with any kind of AP that matters he's swinging at initiative 1 most likely. So maybe not AP2 is the problem, but a lack of universally effective melee options that don't mean you go last. Unwieldy just means that walker/mc/assault squad/even shitty character with an AP2 weapon or smash or something will likely kill your terminator before he can do anything, especially when the fist is getting challenged out. Anything resilient forces terminator at-initiative options to be useless.

Psst, the real issue with shooty terminators is the storm bolter isn't a scary weapon. Terminators just need their shooting damage upped to actually be at a level where they can take on other elite units in a gunfight (they don't always have to win, but need to actually fucking do something).

>>46695610
Only the Wulfen can take the Frost Claws and the same with the Great Fenrisian Axe

I'm saying this as fast as possible because SW players don't really need another untrue reason for people to whine about them

>>46691334
Man, thanks, now I can't hate dark angels as much.

>>46695600
>nothing fun about storm bolters
Giving them special orders along the lines of the old dire avenger exarch powers mite b cool. Also a reason to even keep sarge around beyond challenge bait so your character can rape a unit.

The reason I'd rather not bring the multi-weapon rule back is because, well, the five man squad is kinda iconic. Space Hulk left a very deep impression on me, you see.

>>46695658
Welp yeah there you go

I play daemons so I've only glossed the other half of that book. At least wulfen are like more use-able possessed?

>>46695610
I think I'm fine with things like dreadnoughts doing serious damage to terminators. It really does only make sense. The annoying thing is that you go after MCs that have no business being in CC. Riptides are remarkably good at killing terminators for something so ill-suited to melee.

>>46695666
Third and fourth edition had multi-weapon squads. Hell, all the way until the 6th edition marine book, Templars could take 3-man terminator command squads with two special weapons and a combi-weapon. Those were good times.

>>46695714

>Third and fourth edition had multi-weapon squads

You weren't really taking the unit for the terminators themselves really - just decently durable assault cannon platforms.

>tfw my assault terminators and shooty terminators are always useless and all the work has to be done by my devastator squad

i really should just abandon terminators and do skyhammer cheese at this point.

>>46695714
>Third and fourth edition had multi-weapon squads
I know, but they mean less to me than space hulk and 2nd edition, which were "terminators, the game" instead of the special weapon caddies third and fourth turned them into.

>>46695701
They're like much better possessed but with somehow even worse models. I think it might actually be the worst sculpt GW has ever made.

>>46695755
Yup, pretty much. I used to run 2xAC terminators, asscan speeders, asscan dreads, and an LRC. It was a much funnier time.

>>46695714
which funnily enough brings us full circle on the comment that started this whole termi tangent.
WTF with the Riptide being 2+. 2+ should be special, and having it makes the imperium special.

>>46695701
They are definitely better (far better) than possessed, since there are only a handful of units that would be able to kill them before being destroyed themselves, and even less that are able to destroy them and survive. They just lack an easy/cheap way of reaching combat
And I, differently from >>46695806, actually like their models. It's just that GW chose to pose them in the worst possible ways (and the low level paint job they do nowadays doesn't help)

Anyone have the Retribution Phalanx rules?

>>46695812
The Riptide isn't the only non-Imperial thing with a 2+ save, but as a Tau player I agree regardless. 2+ on the Riptide feels odd, and it's not like it needs it badly.

>>46691751
I love this color scheme.

>>46695812
the 2+ on that isn't really the problem, it's everything else about it that's the problem

Like, I've never had an issue with broadsides being 2+. They're slow as balls, T4 and have to pay for drones for invulnerable saves and ablative wounds (which also carries some risks). It's the speed, invulns, fnp and massive shooting capabilities that make the riptide silly.

>>46695812
Broadsides with 2+ makes sense given they lose maneuverability

>>46695907

Makes them look like Stormcast Eternals™

If I printed the pdf of the rulebook to use as a replacement for GW's physical rulebook(Because it costs a fortune.), would I still be able to play with others at a gamestore's tables or would they kick me out in a second?

Longtime lurker but the termie thing has made me chime in.
First a thing on termies,
Termies in fluff are a rapid insertion force whos armour is meant to protect from entry into somewhere and also space/void/unkown enviroments (power armour can, void hardend is better, termie armour is gold standard). Remember Termie armour was going to replace power armour but had problems they never countered due to horus. Theres a reason as many chapters as possible field art armour over termie armour and it has little to do with the scarcity of termie armour.
When I started playing I played exclusively against marines as that's all the power gamers did, gk,da,ba,sw,bt, I grabbed termies as someone I knew was selling and I figured all models/units could be made to work if applied correctly. This is true and it isnt.
Some advice on termies, If you plan to bring them for any shooting specialist weapon look elsewhere, a squad of land speeders always outshines termies for shooting, Termies excel in smaller point game as a semi anvil for hq protection/distraction, It is not meant to allow people to wade into battle against anti tank, no armour is meant to do that (hence thunderhawks). I play salamanders, I learned very very early on how to counter termies the more I counterd them the more I also saw how to apply them. Normal termies should be kept cheap with a few chainfists, If you want to protect them then take a libby hope for defensive power rolls, assault marines are now much better with th/ss because of gravs concussive, this is a squad thats wants a beatstick in there with them (chapter master/captin), chaplins in termie are best used with lightening claws as anti meq/light horde, they aboslutly need a land raider though (ironclad launchers save lives). Dont talk about how to fix termies talk about how better to apply them, and most importantly learn to accept there are situations where termies are not viable and would never be viable. This goes for everything in 40k

>>46695884
most of the things outside the imperium with 2+ saves I understand.
The abosolute toughest of Tyrranids MC. OK, they basically are turtle tanks.
Broadsides: layers and layers of armor so they can't jet around like most suites.
Orks: doesn't make sense, but it works. Because Orks.
Necrons: none afaik
Eldar: only on phoenix lords
DEldar: not an armor save

>>46695989
Depends on your gamestore.

>>46695869
I suppose that their posing probably accounts for a great deal of my hatred for those models. Mind you, I hate them either way. I don't like the aesthetic they've been moving towards on SW. It feels like they're trying to go rule of cool, but failing terribly.

Also, I insist that they changed SW grey at some point and it sucks now. It looks a whole lot more blue.

>>46696004
>Orks: doesn't make sense, but it works
mega armor makes sense, it's just really crude

>>46695989
To add to >>46696017, do you spend a decent amount of money there anyway? If you do you may be okay, but if you buy your models online they may not be impressed to see you also haven't bought the rulebook.

If I have 2 squads of fire warriors, an ethereal, cadre fireblade, 6 crisis suits and a riptide what should I expand my army with? Was thinking a box of pathfinders, maybe a broadside

>>46695925
>>46695929
like I said at first, and again. 2+ on the broadside is fine. They got the result of the termi armor only by piling on so much armor it can barely move.

While the ripetide has many problems, but giving it that 2+ save while keeping the speed doesn't feel right. and it would go at least some ways to making it easier to kill.
Like the Wraithknight is stupidly overpowered, but I think everyone agrees that the 3+ save on it is fine. Hell if it was 500+ pts I'd be willing to buy and play one.

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>>46696062

>>46696004
Orks are a bit of a holdover, but Mega armor fits fine as a 2+. It's basically the same as a Broadside in that it's just layers of metal and armor.

It's the same way Battlewagons have AV 14 on the front. It's the same durability as a land raider on that side.

Ork stuff makes more sense when you remember that all their scrap-metal armor is made from the scrap metal of all the techno-babble future materials the other factions are using.

Aside from that, everything else fits. Phoenix lords can be excused for being rare. Tyranids need 2+ on some things in order to have the equivalent of high AV vehicles. Broadsides get across their heavier weight than crisis suits, though I also think this could be done with extra toughness.

I think decreasing the number of 2+ saves is good, but lowering the amount of AP 2 guns is also important.

>>46696062
pathfinders
crisis suit commander
a couple broadsides

breachers if you want to be cute

>>46691334

That was beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

>>46696158

Ah yeah I forgot about a commander! I think I'll get pathfinders and a commander

>>46696062

Additional Broadsides, Ghost Keel, Stealth Suits, Hammer Heads and Devil Fish might be worth looking into.

Generally there are few things that you can go wrong with when it comes to the Tau arsenal of units.

Not sure how the Aircraft are however. I don't really see those that often.

>>46696123
I pretty much agree. Mind you I'm Eldar, so I'm not entirely okay with losing bladestorm entirely, but making it banestrike (AP3 on 6) would be fine by me.

The only other AP2 are things I feel justified in, and aren't that spamable. Melta guns are melta guns. Lances have always been lances, and you leave my Fire Prism alone you son of a bitch.

>>46696184
I've seen one. I've never seen it played. A friend bought one just because he liked the model. He's painting the whole army up like Imperial Japanese on a beach landing. The flyer is is on a tide pool. It really is pretty cool.

>>46696184
The Sun shark is okay, the Razorshark really isn't.

Their main issue is being somewhat overcosted, and Tau having better anti-air options elsewhere.

It's a shame too, since Tau fluff always talks about how they love air superiority.

he Forgeworld Barracuda is a different story, as it's much better at dogfighting, though they don't sell them anymore.

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>>46690347

One day I will save up and do this

>>46696047
Unfortunately I've yet to spend any there as I plan to be buying online for the most part.(Aiming to start with the Skitarii.)

It's really kind of bothersome because even the Dark vegeance set's(which i have no interest in getting because space marines are overplayed and CSM are apparently one of the worst factions in the game from what i've read.) rulebook alone seems to be being sold for at least 30$ online from what I can find.

>>46696364

Just buy a Skitarii starter set from your local store, or even a codex. It's always a bit awkward if you're going to an independent store to play but never support the store