Warhammer 40k General

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>TFW space marines are the best army

prove me wrong

>>46675463
At what?

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FUCK TAU
and their battlesuits

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>>46675463
Marinefags are the new Taufags.

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>>46675426
First for Orks!

>>46674792
I think I need to completely rethink this list out.

>>46675524
Russians frighten me

>>46674792
You need ways to open transports other than melee. Those Sorcerers really want spell familiars. Pyromancy is garbage, go for Telepathy or Biomancy.

>>46675463
They're up there. Their deathstars are pretty hard hit by Culexus assasins, which is a major weakness compared to the other T1 armies.

I'm thinking of putting together a friendly Slaneesh Daemon army. Are seeker chariots or hellflayer chariots any good? They look beautiful and I would love to paint one, but in game how do they not just get shot down the turn they arrive? I know I'm building a friendly list but I still want some chance at winning.

>>46675668
I was thinking maybe cut the slaughtercult, take the 3 Helbrute pack along with the sorcerers as allies, cut a squad of CSMs and the possessed and try to budget in some Terminators with a chainfist and combi plasma?

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>>46675774
>Slaneesh Daemon army
>chance at winning.

>>46675463
I don't think anyone is gonna really argue that Space Marines aren't one of the strongest armies.

>>46675616
>>46675668
Random other stuff;

Meltas>Flamers. You need the anti-tank, most targets that Flamers are good against are weak to bolter shots and your melee anyways.

Drop the Bloodletters. No point buying a squad when you can just summon them for free.

Drop the Cultists. You've got enough squads and the ability to summon more. Cultists are only useful as tax unit objective holders.

Give the Possessed a Rhino. More Rhinos are always helpful, and it makes the squad that much more likely to contribute.

How competitive is the NOVA Open?

>>46675774
They hit like a truck, but they're stupid fragile.

Mono-Slaanesh is better than mono-Khorne, but it's still pretty shitty. You have little/no shooting, little/no resilience, and it doesn't take much damage to stop a Daemonette or Seeker squad from being a real threat.

is a MT scion army viable if I bring along all four types of assassins

Anyone got a scale pic of a Leviathan dread next to an imperial knight? I'm thinking of extending a plastic knight's legs and converting it to magnetise all possible Knight variants, including forge world ones.

I figure the Grav Flux Bombard off the Leviathan might make a decent barrel for a Knight Atrapos gun, if it's large enough. Not the entire gun, just the barrel.

>>46675942
>is an army that consists of two shitty units and dedicated transports viable
Not really. Culexus is good, Callidus is okay, Vindicare is meh, Eversor is meh.

You're going to be very low model count and fragile. You're going to be fairly lacking in heavy weapons and ranged firepower in general.

>>46675847

Okay so now I'm looking at it like this

KDK CAD

HQ
>Skulltaker

Troops
>Chaos Space Marines x8: 6x CCW, Meltagun, Meltabombs, Icon of Wrath, Rhino; 212 pts
>CSM same configuration: 212 pts
>CSM same configuration: 212 pts

Heavy Support
>Soul Grinder w Harvester Cannon: 130 pts

Allied Detachment: Chaos Space Marines

Clyclopia Cabal: 4x Chaos Sorcerors, spell familiars 340 pts
Mayhem Pack: 3x Helbrutes 300 pts

Overall that comes out to 1506 points. I could probably trim it down to 1500 by cutting a CCW for CSMs and some Melta bombs, but most people I play with are pretty forgiving about 5-10 points.

>>46675942
Scions are on the back foot if you bring them as your primary force.

BS4 stormsentinels when.

>>46676047
>over by 6 points
>multiple 1 point and five point upgrades
Drop some fucking CCW.

Mayhem Pack is pretty meh. If it's walking it's never going to get near anything the opponent doesn't mind losing, and deep striking is a bitch since we have no guidance or reserve manipulation. I'd rather take another Grinder and give them Phlegm Bombardment. Always take Phlehm Bombardment.

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What are your thoughts on taking the Genestealer cult Patriarch and Magus with 2 groups of acolytes as an ally as opposed to using the 600pt formation?

I really like the models but the formation tax seems like too much.

>>46676109
But isn't the Harvester cannon a Heavy 3 so it doesn't scatter? I understand why the blast is useful because it's AP3 and thus ultra lethal to Space Marines, but doesn't the cannon give me a better chance to inflict a shitload of damage very turn?

If I drop the Helbrutes I can afford another Soul Grinder and a Heldrake, so that's actually pretty awesome. Thanks anon.

>>46676086
Think you mean the Tempestus Stormknight, armed with the Stormdeath Multicannon, Tempestus Missile Launcher or Deathstorm Flame Cannon.

So here's the first draft of my 1k points Slaneesh Daemons list. Again, it's a friendly list but at the same time I dont want to get tabled by turn two.

Masque goes with the 20 women squad. Seekers run up and allow damonettes to deep strike safely. Keeper of secrets and hellflayer are mainly there to look cool.


Thoughts?

HQ: Masque of Slaneesh - 75 pts

HQ: Keeper of Secrets - 170 pts

Troop: 20 Daemonettes of Slaneesh, Alluress, Greater Reward - 205 pts

Troop: 17 Daemonettes of Slaneesh, Alluress, Greater Reward - 178 pts

Fast Attack - 10 Seekers of Salanesh, Heartseeker, Grater Reward, Instrument of Chaos - 155 pts

Fast Attack - 10 Seekers of Salanesh, Heartseeker, Grater Reward, Instrument of Chaos - 155 pts

Fast Attack: Hellflayer of Slaanesh - 60 pts

>>46676086
What do you mean?

anyone that has a centurion and a dreadnought, could you post a picture of them standing next to each other

>>46675903
In any actual tournament it is best to expect and prepare for complete try hard WAACery.

>>46676273
>What do you mean?
Not him but he means Scions do not do well as a stand alone army and four assassins aren't fixing that.

>>46676086
Stormsents with Hot-Shot Multilasers. Fuck, I'd play Scions just for that.

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>>46676278

Dreads are actually pretty small nowadays to be honest.

They work though, boxy little mechs.

What's the best single shot anti vehicle gun nowadays?

Like, I know that's no longer an optimal gun category, but within that limit, which is the most useful?

>>46676326
huh, why did i think a centurion would be bigger than that

>>46676220
no, I mean the tempestorm sciontinel.

Armored sentinel but BS4 and five-ten points more expensive.

>>46676317
I know, right?

>>46676238

the Masque doesn't have Independent Character, so she has to go it alone unfortunately.

>>46676368
h.wraith cannon

>>46676207
It's a number of things.
It's strength 8 so it can instant death t4 models usch has tyranid warriors and wulfen.
It's ap3 so it can go through the armour saves of normal troops.
It's large blast so it can punch holes in hordes.
It's ordinance so you roll two dice and pick the high vs vehicles making it damage them very reliably.

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https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Terminator-Command-2016

So this is coming out soon, does this mean I can now make my custom terminator captain and attach him to a terminator squad?

>>46676326
Well, they never were knight sized things. Not like those FW dreads that just keep getting bigger and bigger. Never got the FW size creep on the dreads.

>>46676414
You could already do that.
What I am wondering is if this means we will have terminator command squads.

>>46676449
>terminator command squads
that's what i meant

they're calling it a terminator command and I'm hoping that it means terminator command squad

>>46676414
Does Codex Space Marines get Terminator Command Squads?

I am not sure how much customization the captain in the box has but there a bunch of decent looking Terminator HQs that can be converted into a captain easy enough.

>>46676422

Knights are crazy massive, I'd say a Ghostkeel or a Dreadknight are more what I would think of as a large robot. Even a Maulerfiend.

>>46676449
>>46676480
disregard >>46676485 then.

Answered my question.

DW gets em.

Only problem is then you are bringing terminators in 7e.

>>46676207
Harvester cannon is lower strength, lower AP, and only three shots at BS3. Phlegm is better at killing pretty much everything other than fliers. Always buy Phlegm Bombardment.
>>46676238
If you're going to Deep Strike the Daemonettes, grab the musicians. Are the Greaters for Etherblades? Needs more Grimoire.

>>46676413
Okay wow that makes a ton of sense. I haven't used an ordnance weapon yet so I wasn't aware of its special benefits. Thanks for the help I'm going to try this.

I saw the Skyhammer Annihilation Force in action today.

Who actually thought that formation was a good idea?

>>46676555
What is it

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>>46676577

>>46676577

Something to laugh at if you actually did spam interceptor on your Tau.

Not that many people actually do- It's more the threat of interceptor than actually spending a ton of points on it in practice. Your average Tau player will have the sig system on maybe one unit.

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So I've been into 40k for over a decade now and somehow this never crossed my mind before, but now I can't stop pondering:

What separates the heavy usage of skull iconography in the Imperium from the actual skulltaking of the Chaos legions? Would a loyalist collecting/mounting real skulls on his person be venturing into heresy? I'm pretty sure the white scars do it, but I'm not sure where the distinctions between begin or end.

>>46675524
Yep, some of the new psychic powers are possibly the most egregious offense yet. My basically club disbanded after those being the proverbial last straw.

>>46676604
CSM Player Jelly is big enough to fill the city.
I WANT THAT
It has everything I need. (Reason to use these fine raptor models included.)

>>46676399
Fuck didnt notice that, thanks. Still gonna take her for that -5 BS to anyone I dont like though.

>>46676518
Etherblades or lash of despair yea. Depends on what I'm against. What do you mean by musicians?

>>46676674

Skulls are fine anon, it's spikes that tread you down a dark path.

>>46676555
I imagine it was GW's test drive at pay to win.

>>46676674
Video related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv2XGQBcvxQ

>>46676674
The skull of the IoM are 100% matyrs who died for your sins, with a prayer on their lips, and holy fury in their souls.

The skulls of a CSM warband (and dark eldar) are heads-on-pike to show how strong they are, which is why theres everything: genestealer head, kroot, human.....
or sacrifices for something

>>46675903
Not sure about this year, but in 6th edition they houseruled buffs to the Wave Serpent and something else Eldar iirc. Absurdly stupid and they caught a mountain of shit for it. I think Eldar owned 6 or 7 of the top 10 spots that year. I believe it was later disclosed that some Eldar tourney player was close with the NOVA organizer(s).

>>46676674
Meaning, skulls for the Imperium are memento mori to remind every citizen that you owe a blood debt to the Emperor and you will repay it. Skulls for chaos are nothing but a meaningless drive to murder, a trophy that your madness requires.

>>46675616
Pls no pyromancy. You don't have to use sorcerers for mega-cheese, but using them for pyromancy is just a waste...

>>46676714
She's not worth a single usage of -5 BS. You'd be better off buying a real Herald with some Mastery levels. I'd drop her and the Greaters for some Heralds and additional Mastery levels for the KoS.

Instruments.

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>>46676604
Assault good again?

>>46676604
Jeez, that's broken as fuck.

>>46676791
I took out the hellflayer and have the KoS a greater and exalted reward. I might take out the greater rewards for a couple mastery levels on the KoS as well, but idk where I would get the points for a herald with mastery levels. I could take one without but then may as well take the Masque.

And yea will give the daemonettes instruments, didnt realise it also helped to bring in more units.

>>46676825
Anything is good if it's supported in one of the decurions for SM, Daemons, Crons, Tau, or just a part of Eldar or SW.

Assault certainly ain't dead.

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>>46676449
>vanilla marines
>not getting glorious Terminator Command Squads
>laughingda.remebremancersketch

Dear god how I wish Deathwing were useful I have so many terminators.

>>46676604
Oh boy, I hadn't seen the formation but my friend and I recently started and he is playing space wolves and is adding this to the CAD he has

Legitimately worried for my Necrons.

>>46676676
It's somewhat annoying, I haven't used a Librarian since they released the metal terminator one a few years back. They're mental now, meanwhile chaplains lost so much worth when they got their stats debuffed.Losing a wound and the Crozius not being a power weapon was a major loss.

>>46676874
>Dear god how I wish Deathwing were useful I have so many terminators.
Word.
I have a small DW strike force but I don't want to shell out for land raiders.
It wouldn't take much for Terminators to be fixed but DW Knights really only need one thing and that is to assault from deepstrike.

>>46676696
If CSM could use that.... wew baby.

>>46676825
It's probably one of the best formations for assault marines if you ask me.

>>46676885
>Using it with SW
Is your friend an asshole?

The guy I saw using it today was playing Imperial Fists with all Heavy Bolters.

He nearly tabled the 'Nid player on turn one with it.

>>46676911
>mfw I have 40+ terminators including DW knights
>I actively avoid using them in matches

I feel... empty.... battle brother....

>>46676674
>What separates the heavy usage of skull iconography in the Imperium from the actual skulltaking of the Chaos legions?
Skulls taken as icons and skulls taken as trophies carry different meanings.

the mausoleum versus the mass grave

>>46676874
>>46676911
>>46676939
Fear not, now you are able to reroll saves that save of 5++ is actually a little bit better than a 4++!

>>46676971
let me do that without a librarian

psykers a shit

>>46676932
imagine raptors with MoK and that reroll charge banner.
droppods with dirge caster
havocs with 4x plasma and MoN

Someone give me proof that smashfucker prime exists
The idea is so absurd it sounds made up

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>>46676987
YOU a shit

>>46676971
Reroll 5++ saves? What is this heresy you speak of?

>>46677032
fuck off nerd we're going to play spaceball without you and your dumb books

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So I was in a 40kg thread few days ago or so and somebody said something like

>If you use the best unit in your dex, you're a WAACfag

And I got to thinking. Is this true? If so, where is the cut off point on 'dex is so shit that using the best units is justified' and 'dex is all round good that using the best units is waacfaggotry'?

>>46676932
>Using it with SW
>Is your friend an asshole?
We are all new but its our understanding that it isn't against the rules.

Is there a problem with it?

His Thunderwolves really mess me up in close combat but I am looking into wraiths and maybe a destroyer lord to combat them.

Even my lychguard ended up being useless against them.

>>46677050
It's just going to give his Thunderwolves even more support.

But like I said, at least he's not the Fists player I watched. 8 Heavy Bolters that came down and just ripped apart an enough of the Nid player's army that he was almost tabled.

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>>46677046
I can dunk/score/hit a ball without touching it, you can't faggot.

Is there a Dreadnaught formation? I really want to take an almost pure Dread army.

>>46677047
You're a WAACfag if you play to absolutely curb stomp your opponent without his consent, as in he isnt playing to curb stomp you, basically you win at the cost of your opponent's fun.

>>46677047
No it's not true, blanket statements like that never are.

>>46677115
you can also blow up your own head without doing anything at all

last time I face nids I felt bad. By turn three everything besides his flyrant got removed and all I did was start at my deployment line and moved back as he tried to run at me.
I tried to tell him it was a dumb idea and he could of won the mission but that wasnt "fluffy" to him.

It was Hammer and Anvil deployment and he just made a wall of death.

Poor bugs.

>>46677139
if the opponent doesn't like it he can forfeit
it's a game
someone wins
get over it

and before anyone gets in my ass about using "he", no fucking women play this game. So go fuck off to Tumblr with your CIS "Gender is fluid so I am a dog" kiddie bullshit

>>46677159
My friend plays Nids and I beat him too easily that I'm starting to gimp my list.

I felt really bad when his Carnifex folded beneath my firing line long before it even made it to a distance it could charge from.

>>46676825
>>46676871
BA's cry whenever it's brought up

like I am right now

>>46676604
>Suppressing Fusillade
Take a 3D6 leadership test, fail and you're punished - Pass? ...and you're punished.

I'd feel like a faggot fielding that. I dont use formations at all though, so bleh. Getting a competitive advantage for using a list written by Games Workshop is just too sleazy. I guess I'm just a better person than all you shameful formation faggots.

>>46677189
>no fucking women play this game. So go fuck off to Tumblr with your CIS "Gender is fluid so I am a dog" kiddie bullshit
You do realize that even that shit is made up by /pol/ and then people who blog like they actually believe they are animals are doing it to piss people like you off....

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>>46677149
I can also give myself head without ever touching my junk! YOU CAN'T!

>>46677115

I thought that was the female warcaster from Tactics for a moment.

>>46677189
>paranoid anon defends his pronouns
Might as well be on tumblr yourself gayboy.

Someone wins but it doesn't have to be a stomp. I refused a game against tau because he was trying to fit a Storm Surge and 2 Riptides into a 1500pt game. No heads up or anything so I saw them when he was deploying and said no and we ended up not playing because he wouldn't drop them.

If you want to play a cuntish way then by all means do it, but do it with the other douchebags.

>>46677115
Tracer you look a little different, whats up?

>>46677234
The worst part is that Suppressing Fusillade and Leave No Survivors is that they're not temporary like First the Fire, then the Blade is.

Like what the fuck? If you don't kill the entire formation in one turn, it's going to keep doing that bullshit.

>>46677277
look man i dont know why you have to get so defensive. you can decline or forfeit. you don't have to be such a hateful fucking jerk about it.

and fuck off you little shit I have been on this site since 2005, before you even knew what the fuck command line is. it's little pieces of shit like you that perpetuate this fucking hugbox mentality. you want a fucking upvote?

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>>46677231
>whats wrong, weak codex?
>be a good goy and buy a new army

>>46677342
>hateful fucking jerk
pot kettle black.

>>46677342
Give him a fucking upvote!

>>46677128
Chaos Marines, dude

A Murderpack and 3 Mayhem packs get's you 14 Helbrutes in 1500 points with a few plasma cannons and reaper autocannon upgrades. 9 of them have Deep Strike/IWND and 3 of them get to choose their Crazed results

What could go wrong?

>>46677366
yeah im not even falling for this retardo-bait anymore. No more (you)s from me.

Someone said something about terminators getting rerollable 5++ now- is this a formation bonus or something that I haven't heard about?

>>46677366
stay out of this

>>46677234
Do you use a CAD? If so you aren't better than shit, faggot.

>>46677421
im guessing they are using a libarian and one of those new psychic powers.

I heard they are allowing the 30k termi armour in 40k now but idk the stats on it and I don't know if deathwing can take it.

>>46677421
Leave it to a namefag to have his head so far up his ass that he doesn't know about Veil of Time.

>>46676502
wut?

>>46677472
Cataphracts, Cataphract Captains, and Contemptors are available as units in Angels of Death. They only get the options in the Calth box set. Which is hilarious for Contemptor Dreadnoughts, since they just lost a ton of weapon options since Angels of Death is now their most recent published ruleset.

>>46677492
>Leave it to a namefag to have his head so far up his ass that he doesn't know about Veil of Time
Oh no, are you saying that someone has something better to do than keep up with loyalist leaks?

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>>46677342
>trying this hard

>>46676422

Well that kind of fits with the lore.

I'm surprised they haven't addressed the lore about the Baneblade being a light vehicle and decided to release something bigger yet.

>>46677507

Dreads are pretty small mechs. About a marine and a half tall.

Knights are gigantic mechs.

Things about the size of a Ghostkeel or so have a bit more prescence than a Dread without escalating things to a silly scale for a 28mm wargame.

>>46677519

Don't worry, there's not actually a "Most recent version" rule, it's a social convention.

>>46677542
>ebbin 4Ublade lite tonk may-may lel #rekt

>>46677549
How does this relate to the post I made?

>>46675426
Is GW still losing revenue? Is GW still making stupid business decisions?

Assuming, hypothetically, GW does go out of business and puts the IP for auction, who do you think would buy it and what would they do with it?

>>46677595
>How does this relate to the one word shitpost I made?
FTFY m8

>>46677492
Believe it or not, some people can't dedicate every waking moment to keeping up with what Games Workshop is doing. Hence the need to ask.

>>46677563

Could I mix and match angels of death and IA contemptors in the same list?

>>46677519
I was wondering in consideration to the outcry from Ork and Chaos players, but since when do supplements supersede Codices? If you've spent a lot of money on one then surely it should be relevant till its fully updated? Or do supplements include the old codex?

>>46677616
>who do you think would buy it and what would they do with it?
I wish Hasbro/WOTC would but I am afraid it will be a company more akin to Blizzard or EA.

>>46677456
Because CAD is a list of specific units dictated by Games Workshop, that offer advantageous buffs often superceding obsec.

>I'm a formation faggot that cant handle being called out on my waac tendency

>>46677622
>not a true fan

>>46677618
Yeah, ok, you're not someone to talk to, if you can't follow a conversation past 2 posts.

>>46677595

>Dreads are kinda small.
>Dreads were never Knight sized.
>There's room in the game for models between "crippled marine exosuit" and "superheavy vehicle" in scale

And then you lost track of the conversation, apparently.

>>46677624
No not really. The whole premise around decurions should be model taxation.

>>46677115
God, no matter what reality we are in, punky brewster grows up to be FINE AS FUCK.

>>46677648
I play Thousand Sons; I have no formations. Skyhammer is cancer, but the idea behind formations is solid. Autists like you need to get over yourselves.

>>46677624

Angels of Death Contemptors have more attacks than a two-fist Contemptor from an IA13 army and get a free Melta tossed in for their trouble. Or can upgrade to single kheres and keep that melee buff.

So it is pretty skeevy to mix and match, yes. You only aren't taking an IA dread with the same equipment because it's a straight downgrade.

>>46677715

Decurions don't really "tax". They limit you to a relative monobuild, but outside a few shit ones don't tend to make you pick something that makes your army worse for it.

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>>46677680
I was merely curious about what I said about dreads never being very big led to "Knights are crazy massive, I'd say a Ghostkeel or a Dreadknight are more what I would think of as a large robot. Even a Maulerfiend." I was just not seeing the message here, you know. The info that was trying to be conveyed.

We can give Marines walkers without having to make every single one of them a dreadnought. Those things were suppose to be like things to enable wounded marines keep fighting. Now they're just generic all purpose walkers that requires you to get turned into an organ jar to pilot. Like, why not just make walkers they can get in and drive? I'm sure they can find room for them and their power armour if they take out all the life support systems to keep the half-dead marine alive.

The old art and Epic models depicting the dread variant that became the contemptor weren't that big compared to the boxnought, but FW decided to make it way bigger than the regular. And then they just kept on adding to the size first with the dorido and then with the leviathan. Come on, at least let the boxnought have the ironclad variant in 30k.

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>>46677350
Jokes on you, I have a fetish for angels and sexy male torsos I'll never achieve.

>>46677252
>>46677292
>>46677718
>filthy Mon'keighs ogling me

Disgusting.

Anybody know where I could find a PDF of the Battle for Macragge missions?
Searched the archive of the old GW site but the links for the files are all dead.

>>46676137
There is literally no tax what are you talking about? you have not actually played with it have you.

The formation grants free stealth, infiltrate, turn 1 shrouded, AND fearless, and nearly always turn one vehicle charge with the Patriarch. This also means all your powers are in range from the get go, and basically everyone gets a 3++ on the first round

I have been fucking shit up with it but i can't imagine not having infiltrate on the entire group, the Hyrbids and Abberants would just be so worthless. the Broodkin makes them worth existing

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>>46677920
ayo bitch. hol up hol up
*smacks lips*
cum suck on dis sword
*grabs dick*
n maybe ill teach u how to do a proper topknot
*fails crusade*

>>46677760
>I play Thousand Sons; I have no formations

So you play a CAD then you retard, which you just sperged out over.

>1K sons player calling anyone autistic

>>46677616
>Is GW still losing revenue

2014 they made £16,600,000 or so.
2015 they made £16,000,000 or so.
2015 they opened up a brand new studio and are making them re-release the specialist games.

>Is GW still making stupid business decisions
By the opinion of somebody with business education and experience, or grognards on websites? Former; yes and no. AoS is a short-term stupid decision, but long-term it's likely to bring more people into the hobby, one way or another. 25+ year olds who grew up with WHFB are not the target of the game. Latter? Yes. They've been making stupid businesses decisions for the last 20 years. First it was cancelling the game that became Warcraft 1, then it was dropping dozens of WHFB factions, then it was HeroHammer, then it was flyers, then it was Hordes + Magic OP, then it was Overwatch, then it was 'power creep models', then it was formations, then it was End Times, then it was AoS....

As for who would own it, the names mentioned for the last 15-20 years have been Hasbro, Mattel and WotC.

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>>46678098
Sure thing, babe, just come suck on my flamer first~~~!

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>>46678165
trust me gurl, u dont want me near a flamer

maybe u should just give me some brain n polish my axe a bit... i get kinda twitchy when people dont coorperate with me.. you wouldnt like me when im twitchy...

>>46678136

The issue with AoS from a perspective ignoring the wants of existing players is that it's really lazy. Instead of trying to dial back somewhat to what made a fantasy wargame popular before sales tanked, consult some qualified game designers to put whatever spin on it and up marketing...

They shat out a 4 page barely functional system that could have been built on a rainy afternoon in a caravan.

Are any of the novels in the OP audiobooks?

>>46678291
Even a shitty system isn't so bad.
But not having any sort of point or balancing system is bad.

>>46678303
Only a bunch.
The Horus Heresy thread have plenty of audiobooks, but only... well... Horus Heresy.

>>46678329

A reasonably detailed narrative system might do okay with no points. I'm pretty sure there's historical games that work that way, for example.

Thing is, it'd take -effort- to make that work.

>>46678136
I fail to see how a failed, shitty game system with zero indications of improvement is likely to bring more players into the game. Especially when all the publicity that Total Warhammer brings is going to be met with "We killed that game and those factions, have some gold robots instead."

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>>46678275
So do I... especially since you've not praised the Emperor in the last 30 seconds.

>>46678291
I think the point that guy was trying to make is, AoS isn't designed for people who want a tabletop game that's 'complicated'. Not in the age of the smartphone. I could go into deeper discussion about it, but I hate it when it comes into /40kg/. In short, it's not for us. It's for Generation Z. They're a businesses, they've been doing it for 40 years. However, you also have to remember, 1st and 2nd edition WHFB didn't have fluff and I don't think it had any indepth rule system. I can't remember if it had any points, I only read some of my mates older brothers 1st and 2nd editions (but it was these and his Empire models which got me into the game).

>>46678428
Alternatively rules could be carefully written to either

>ensure that more powerful forces are punished

Or

>ensure two forces that casually appear equal are as close to equal as possible

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>>46678472
emperor? never heard of her...

she your friend? bring her, she can give me some brain too...

>>46678472
The whole "necessitating hours and hours of assembling and painting plus hundreds of dollars in minis" really flies counter to the "quick easy game for the smartphone generation."

>>46678472

Yeah, the "Age of smartphones" thing? Old men in corporations assuming kids these days are lazy shits and giving a half assed product.

I mean, it's basically the same as saying "it's just a kids show!"

Yeah, you can get away with making a shitty, lazy kids show, but the ones that'll really stick in people's memories as a big part of their childhood? The ones where someone gave half a shit somewhere in the creative process.

>>46678440
Same way WHFB turned into a real thing when WHFB was originally a system to use D&D figures in another way. You example of Total Warhammer is flawed. Why? Because CA tried to get the rights to do it in 2005, but GW denied. They denied because GW didn't want Total Warhammer dragging people away from THEIR MODELS. Why would you buy models, which don't move and take learning of lots of rules to get into a 'fight', when you could play a video game with animated fights and the huge range of models. What £30 dragon? No need to buy it when you can get it by collecting tax in a game for 5 turns and recruiting it. This is why it's been greenlighted, because AoS is replacing it and outside of certain models/ranges, it's being replaced with other things, or added to.

That's the reason. Now, you'll probably go "But DoW got people into 40k"; yes. It did. But did it get people BUYING 40k models? Probably some, but everybody who bought DoW went out and splashed £500 on an army? I doubt it. However, 40k was already popular by release of DoW, meaning that people who buy the game, won't actually be gaining much for doing it.

Either way, WHFB is gone. It dropped out of the Top 5 sellers in 2013. That's really quite a drop when it was 4th in 2012. I don't want to argue about the pros and cons of AoS, but the simple thing is; don't buy it. Don't talk about it. Don't do anything involved with it. If it fails, it fails, that's the end of fantasy. If it succeeds, then it succeeds and we see some of the money and players trickle into 40k, hopefully for the betterment of all.

>>46678428
I'm not sure how well that would work for a fantasy game. Pre modern war games don't have nearly the same range of models.

>>46678626
I'm not disagreeing with you anon. Just saying, GW is run by an idiot in Kirby. I wish Rowntree would tell him to jog on. However, Hollywood and Video Games agree with this sentiment. They believe that smartphones are dragging attention away and they're not wrong. Why do you think GW has released the IP to loads of developers? I could name plenty of new 40k games released in the last 2 years which is fucking odd as more seem to be released in this period that ever since before.

>>46678602
I'm not saying it's logical, I'm just saying that's what GW thinks. The other guy is right, they think it'll work cause it's not complicated. In theory it's sound; WHFB had 400+ page BRB and 100+ page army rulebook... And if you wanted to know how to fight your opponent well, you probably need to read those books as well or it slows the game down. With AoS? 4 pages of rules, really pretty simple shit, with the 'depth' in the units you use. In theory, again, simplifying the rules makes sense. In practice... Well, we say it won't, but again, we're not the guys that should be asked.

Trying to decide on my next army and I could use some input. My options are:

-Astra Militarum - a traitor force similar to the Blood Pact or Sons of Sek, fairly 'normal' guard army using creative allies to represent the allies a traitor guard army would have

-Daemons - Probably Nurgle themed, would go heavy on the 'gardener' idea of Nurgle with champions with spades and rakes.

-Dark AdMech - Skitarri/Cult Mech list just with a chaos bent.

Thoughts?

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>>46678562
>her

Yes, the Emperor is both wise and beautiful, being anything he deemed to be when he walked in the flesh. Your pathetic form is anathema to everything he aspired to be. You disgust me and my Sisters.

>>46678746
This artist stopped learning at faces lol.

>>46678631
One thing I will say about age of sigmar is that some of the models are decent. I've been considering picking some up for 40k, although the lack of clear analogues for most units is a problem

>>46678724

Tom Kirby doesn't run GW anymore. Rountree is the CEO - Tom Kirby is only involved in a limited number of development based roles.

>>46678740
>iG
Well, I'm sure you know of IA13, so that allows you to run a traitor Guard army iirc.

>Daemons
Sounds great. I'd love to see those models. If I was doing this idea, I'd make one with pretty flowers, while everything else looks shit, so you're dragged towards that particular model. Maybe make others look at it in disgust.

>DAM
I'm pretty sure Dark Mechanicus will be a standalone army at some point, but until then. Go for it. It will probably need lots of converting. Using barrels from Chaos Preds/Dreads on Dragoons/Onagars. Seems cool.

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>>46678762
At least for 40k he did. His other art is different.

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Playing in a "fun" tourney, points are based on creativeness of list.

So I am taking death guard themed army:
+++ Next gen csm (1849pts) +++

+ HQ (335pts) +

Chaos Lord (165pts) [Burning Brand of Skalanthrax (30pts), Chainfist (15pts), Mark of Nurgle (15pts), Terminator Armour (40pts)]

Warpsmith (170pts) [Aura of dark glory (15pts), Frag Grenades, Gift of mutation (10pts), Krak Genades, Mark of Nurgle (15pts), Mechatendrils, Power Axe, Warlord]
····Rules: Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Mark of Nurgle, Master of Mechanisms, Shatter Defences
····Combi-weapon (20pts) [Combi-melta (10pts)]

+ Elites (422pts) +

Chaos Terminators (422pts) [Icon of vengeance (35pts), Mark of Nurgle (18pts)]
····Rules: Deep Strike, Mark of Nurgle
····Chaos Land Raider (245pts) [Dirge caster (5pts), Extra Armour (10pts)
····Chaos Terminator (38pts) [Combi-Bolter, Powerfist (7pts)]
····Chaos Terminator (38pts) [Combi-Bolter, Powerfist (7pts)]
····Terminator Champion (48pts) [Chainfist (15pts), Combi Bolter]

+ Troops (693pts)

2x squads Plague Marines (245pts)
····Chaos Rhino (47pts) [Combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher (12pts)
········Rules: Champion of Chaos
····7x Plague Marine (144pts)
2x plasma gun

Plague Marines (198pts)
7x Plague Marine (144pts)
····2x Plasma Gun (30pts)

+ Heavy Support (152pts) +

Obliterators (152pts) [Mark of Nurgle (12pts), 2x Obliterator (140pts),

++ Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Formation Detachment) (247pts) ++

+ Formation (247pts) +

Helcult (247pts)
two squads of 14 cultists

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>>46678746
bitch u kno me n my whole crew is aesthetic af

whats that thing with the thick beads hanging off your waist used for?

u got sisters? bring them too

Sometime ago some anons were sharing the priest of mars, can someone point me into the direction to get it?

>>46677879
>That centurion

I was always under the impression they were huge.

Huh.

>>46678798
I know. But Kirby is still in a major position in the company. I mentioned this is another reply; >>46678724. However, AoS isn't Rowtrees fault. Why? Because the decision for AoS was decided before the End Times. I got this information from Forge Worlds facebook. Essentially, I asked them why they had cancelled The Battle for Blackfire Pass campaign book (I posted a picture of the cover for it) and they basically replied "Because the line was not popular enough, we released two of the models we planned however, you can buy them here for your Empire army!" and linked the two of them (Empire Standard + Dwarf Standard iirc). I BELIEVE this was before Kirby stood down. Either way, he OK'd the 8th edition, which was the final straw to lots of WHFB players. Hordes? Big kits? Magic OP? Vetock tried to fix them (Lizardmen and Dwarfs) which made them balanced, but Ward shat on all that with three OP Elf books. That was another sign to me. There is NO WAY they could have OK'd I6 Elves with ASF AND FIER.

>>46678771
The new Orc releases this week are basically Orks. So they might be good. The Chaos ones I've thought of using for my CSM army. Some of them look like good Zerkers, some look like good Khorne Cultists. Some as HQ's.

Sigmarines are a bit big for Space Marine analogues, though some could work for Blood Angels, at least parts.

>>46678944
>Chaos Land Raider
>only two oblits for ranged support
I hope you find getting you ass kicked fum.

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>>46678951
How bout you just kneel down with me and pray to the almighty Emperor? Before I cut your degenerate head off, that is.

>>46679019

No - Tom Kirby does not still occupy a position of influence. Tom Kirby stepped down as CEO after stocks fell 25% in one half of a year. He is no longer involved or consulted regarding the day to day or major strategic decisions of GW.

>>46678798
Roundtree's been in for almost two years, right? Can we stop acting like he's actually going to improve things? A handful of "discounted" box sets doesn't make up for the game being utterly broken and the balance being the worst it's been in 3+ editions.

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Is there a way to run a "good" ork list without bikers?

I honestly hate bikers. They just dont look cool to me.

5 KMK mek guns and a trukk full of MANZ with a boss and where do you go from there?

>>46679120
Do you not know how companies work?

I've worked in a big company before, I guarantee you that the recent discounts are his decision and they've only just recently made it through the pipework.

A lot of shit over the past two years were holdovers from Kirby that were still in the pipework.

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>>46679052
bitch the fuck happened 2 ur face?! u aint supposed to block the chainaxe with ur domepiece. fuck it, how bout you just kneel down and pray dis emperor right here
*unzips dick*

>>46677616
I'm not a GW lover by any stretch-just got a recast predator executioner- but they are making steps in the right direction lately. Plus they were so debt adverse one year of diminished returns didn't really do jack to them

>>46679019
I find myself drawn to those new Stardrakes. The idea of a giant daemonic blood dragon sounds really cool to me, although price-wise its really steep.

Orks seem like the easiest thing to transfer over, though I don't have any solid ideas for an army of them.

>>46679120

Rountree has been in for about a year and a half. The time frame for decisions - especially strategic ones - is fairly lengthy. So the idea that he isn't going to improve things is a bit short sighted. It takes time to change the course of a publicly trade organization. It is more similar to steering a barge or an 18-wheeler rather than speed boat or car.

Also - Games Workshop isn't ever going to move towards caring about balance. Not especially now that they've figured out that free points sell models. Formations sell models, power creep sells models. The only difference is Rountree embraces it because I think he understands gaming elements drive customer purchases. If a well balanced tightly tuned game is what you want then you're better off finding something else. But honestly lets be honest - if you wanted a tightly tuned well balanced game you should have never been playing GW games.

>>46679222
>>46679052
Look, this shit is fucking adorable and all, but can you two sameguy get your own thread for your RP fanfic?

>>46679120
>worst balance in 3+ editions

Im old, Ive been around since Epic was called Adeptus Titanicus, 40k was called Rogue Trader, and was a squad vs squad game.
7th edition 40k has more problems than any iteration before it - balance being the biggest obstacle standing in the way of fun for a lot of players.
For the first time in 20+ years, I can see this game imploding.

>>46679076
Kirby does, actually. He is the Non-Executive Chairman. That is a position of influence. If you ARE right, and I'm sure you are (I honestly hate the guy so don't know much) then he greenlighted 8th edition and everything before that, such as killing specialist games and crap.

>>46679120
WHFB had dropped out of the Top 5 games before Rowntree was in charge. Also, Ad Mech, Execution Force, BaC, Deathteam and Knight Titan and so on were nice additions. Especially Ad Mech and Deathteam.

>>46679292
>sameguy

What? Do you mean samefag? If so, we're not samefagging. As for RP fanfic, it's barely considered fucking conversation let alone a fanfic.

>>46679222
Better stop, we're having fun wrong. Let's get back to arguing about GW and AoS!

>>46679310
>killing specialist games

actually wasn't that a money sink? i remember reading that it didn't pull in much $ or players. not to mention they dropped support for those games fast to never bother with a 2nd edition.

>>46679310

http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/

I'd rather just post that than actually have a conversation regarding the hows and wheres of Kirby's influence vs. the influence of being publicly traded and losing old guard.

>>46679348

No - they didn't know how to manage print runs to make it profitable because GW of the 90s was a terribly run business.

>>46679348
I guess they weren't such a risk if they're bringing so many out now and there are rumors of some getting more (BaC 2 later this year, for example.)

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>>46679292
how bout i put this plasmagat in your mouth and breeze yo brain out the back of yo skull

>>46679377
Go for it. Death would be a blessing after your shit dialogue.

>>46679374

Board Games are a different model of release and also being produced by a Games Workshop who knows how to source and control supply chain much more effectively than the GW who made Mordheim or Necromunda.

>>46679259
Does all that bullshit really sell models though? Because they have been experiencing sales shrink, and their recent holiday sales fell short by GW's own admission.
This years shareholders report will be a telling one. More shrink? If so, you cannot make the claim that formations and all the waac encouraging trash sells models.

I suspect this year will show the largest drop in sales yet, which will be accompanied by a decrease in revenue. There isnt anything left for them to trim in order to keep profit flat. So they will have to face the music this time.

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>>46679400
you must be fun at parties...

jk i know you dont get invited to parties... you must be fun, crying in your mother's basement because people are typing like idiots on a mongolian horsefucking forum.

>>46679146
>5 KMK mek guns and a trukk full of MANZ with a boss and where do you go from there?
Mek Guns are good but I would put MANz in a battlewagon with the Warboss and a painboy perhaps and the trukk can be for suicide tank bustas.
It really depends how competitive the armies you go against are.

>>46679420
did we read the same reports?

the analysis I read suggested sales were up, but expenses were also up, combined with the decline in the value of GBP weakening the value of on of their larger markets

but maybe I read a bunch of horse shit idk

>>46679497

The half year reported sales were down in December and reported that profits would likely not exceed 16m.

Not the anon you're responding to but the half year fiscals weren't amazing.

>>46679361
Okay, if you didn't want a conversation, it would have been OK for you just to have said. I've read that before and it's a bit of a problem to talk about when you're not there. Kirby was and lots of decisions alienated the player base while he was in charge. So the buck stops with him. GW has never been run particularly well, however. In terms of money? They're making more than they were in the 90's. I think that's all they care about.

Let's end it here then.

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>>46679470
>mongolian horsefucking forum.
Wait.
This isn't a Vietnamese Cat Trading Blog?


>>46679146
>Is there a way to run a "good" ork list without bikers?
depends what you mean by good. Battlewagons could be used instead of the shitty trukk at higher points.

If you don't put a battle cannon on it then you can loot a rhino and slap it on that for a Looted Wagon.

>>46679527

I didn't want to have the conversation because I've had it before. I'm the anon who worked in the US manufacturing business for GW. The massive amount of misinformation that permeates /tg/ just isn't worth combating anymore. I occasionally pipe up to talk costs of mfg. and/or my experiences as a GW employee who wasn't in retail.

I don't think GW is doing a good job but I think the issues are things most gamers don't get or understand. Because gamers are emotional and invested in the hobby, not the business.

I am playing SoB, I'm running my nice little single CAD, 1 Assassin.
I am apparently the most WAAC in our group.
>load senarios that never happend.

Solve all the WAAC problems by converting to the Sisterhood, we even got a new release before CSM did! (Sure it was a graphical novel, but it's the release date that counts!)

>>46679516
>Not the anon you're responding to but the half year fiscals weren't amazing
I wouldn't expect them to be since they re-opened their specialist game division and launched a new product line
The Getting Started! Boxes, the recent repacks and discount bundles, along with the increase in licensed works that actually look like they might be good will bring them fortune in the near future I think.

>>46679146
mek guns
tankbustas
more tankbustas

>>46679516
That was a Guardian newspaper, not an actual report. However, £16m for a company with no debt in a niche market is pretty fucking solid. That was down £600k from 2014. The question is; where did that £600k go? Not all of it can be attributed to lower GBP value; however we DO know they opened a new design studio in 2015, which could explain a large chunk of that. The rest? Who knows. We're going to have to see what happens over the next 5 years.

Even if GW didn't make a penny next year, which is so unlikely it's laughable, then they wouldn't be in THAT much trouble, as they have no debt and have decent cash reserves. If we go on the last two years, they have £32m extra to spend. Obviously it's not all available, but they would need a MASSIVE problem to suddenly not make money.

>>46679497
There is two reports. The official GW report which isn't very informative, which says that sales are up, that publications are doing better than expected (White Dwarf for example) but expenses are up due to weak conversion rates. However, the other report, by Guardian, says their profits are down, by about £600k, which again, isn't informative, as it doesn't explain why. However it says their Christmas period sales are down.

>>46679565
not that anon but please spill the beans

>>46679568

Sisters are a really good army for what it's worth. And often you'll have a big leg up because other players don't know what anything you have is or what it can do. It is similar in effect (but obviously vastly tuned down) to playing a War Convocation player.

>>46679611

I am sorry sir you are incorrect. My source is the actual GW half year report.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2015-16-Press-Statement.pdf

TL;DR

We have made some good progress on our strategic initiatives all focused on delivering long term growth. Whilst we are disappointed with the decline in return on capital reported in the period, we are all confident that we are focused on delivering the necessary changes to address this decline.

In the period we launched some great new products and our new visitor centre has performed well.

December sales were below expectations across the Group. At this stage in the Company’s financial year, the Company’s internal projections indicate that pre-tax profit for the year to 29 May 2016 is unlikely to exceed £16 million. A further update will be made when appropriate. “

Key quote from Rountree.

>>46679615

What specifically are you interested in?

>its a /tg/ gets baited into arguing with the retarded GW shills episode

>>46679565
I've discussed stuff with you before, actually. Not about this, but about other subjects. How do you cope with watching /tg/, Whineseer, DakkaDakka, BolS or HeresyOnline moaning about X or Y? Doesn't it hurt? Make you cringe? I've worked in businesses myself (and I run a website, which is kind of a business...) and I know that the bottom line is always being aimed to be higher. That there is a balance between pissing people off and making more money. I'm not intelligent enough to really know the nuances, but your last comment is right.

My comment is, Kirby is the figurehead you can scapegoat if you want to scapegoat anybody. GW hasn't ever been run particularly well, especially when they were importing D&D and trying to push their stuff, like Space Crusade or HeroQuest or whatever.

>>46675903
They are complete WAAC clusterfucks
More netlists than the internet itself
Rigged dice
Bullshit lists
Equally bullshit fluff reasons for said lists
Faggots walking around with armies they paid someone else to paint

I could go on, but you get the point. It's a shit show.

>>46679658
>Anyone who doesn't agree with the doomsayers is a shill

>>46679617
My biggest issue now that my group of 10 have gotten over the first "What the fuck do I kill in this list" phase.
I am relying heavily on drawing good objectives for the point game.

I kinda knew that when getting the army, I like to paint and collect more than playing.
And I'm not even that good of a painter.

>>46679615
>not that anon but please spill the beans
he no longer works for them. Earlier this week he gave all the numbers on cost for development and/or manufacturing.

>>46679649
whatever you got
what's the biggest issue you came across?

>>46679682
>guy literally admitted he worked for GW
>'im not a shill, the profit drop means nothing! GW (tm) will continue to make great products! Keep Forging the Narrative! (tm)'
it must hurt, being retarded...

>>46679649
What exactly about what I said is 'incorrect'?

>>46679696
What's your current list look like?

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>>46679497
Not sure what you read, but sales have been declining for 5 straight years iirc. Profit has remained relatively flat, but theyve exhausted those avenues.

If sales continue to shrink, this year will see a decline in profit. Which (obviously) means less people are buying their products. I've been following their performance for years, and I suspect this year's report will show the sharpest drop in sales yet.

At which point, they should begin to examine their strategy of intentionally holding armies down in attempts to force existing customers to buy in to a new army. I believe this drives more customers away entirely, than it does convince others to buy a new army. And the past few years' sales numbers would suggest I'm correct. The question I'd like an answer to is this: What the fuck are they doing?

>>46679753
>working for a company at one point makes you a shill

ah so i'm a microsoft shill because i worked for them until 2010?

>>46679753
You do realise he's shitting on GW, right? Did you actually read anything he wrote? Also, he doesn't work for GW any more. Read what he fucking says.

>I don't think GW is doing a good job

>>46679565

There. If that's a shill fucking response, you're buzzwording.

>>46679672

I rarely get frustrated or cringe. I just acknowledge that this is a very emotional hobby. And I understand that - I am (as a result of working for GW) a passionate hobbyist myself. I love painting models, writing army lists, and playing games. I personally hate AoS for example. This is something people care about - they're invested in it. So when they complain or moan (even if it's wrong or misdirected) I try to understand where it comes from.

All that said I do often laugh about it - sometimes the information people spout or the figures they use to back up their arguments are laughably wrong, but for some reason people would rather have bad facts to make their opinions more credible rather than simply say 'this is how I feel about this'. For example - I respect this guy (>>46679301) he's honest in that he sees balance impeding fun impeding new players. But this guy (>>46679611) makes me chuckle because before he posted disputing my comments regarding half year fiscals he didn't even bother googling GW's investor relations page.


>>46679753

I don't work for GW anymore - haven't in 2 years. I rarely make arguments regarding GW's long term success other than the odd factual correction.


>>46679611

You said:

>>That was a Guardian newspaper, not an actual report.

When it was an actual GW press release per their investor relations page.

>>46679782
>sales have been declining for 5 straight years iirc

Can you provide evidence for this? I don't remember reading this, yet I've seen it mentioned a lot. I've also seen "WHFB was making 30% of GW revenue" a lot yet I've never seen an actual official statement proving this. I've only ever seen it on /tg/ and whenever i've asked for this information, people don't reply.

>>46679784
probably, you seem retarded enough to shill microsoft.
>>46679785
>Did you actually read anything he wrote?
nah why bother reading any of you mongoloids fighting

>>46679808
>Admitting you're not even reading the posts you're claiming to be right about

No way you're this fucking stupid.

>>46679611
Link the report where Games Workshop claims sales have increased, if you dont mind. Becsuse Ive read every report for the past 4 years and sales have been consistently shrinking over that span.

>>46679782

Regarding things that make me laugh (I'm >>46679792) - stuff like this cracks me up.

>>At which point, they should begin to examine their strategy of intentionally holding armies down in attempts to force existing customers to buy in to a new army.

GW is so laughably out of touch with balance, game play, and general gaming that this isn't some intentional evil strategy. They don't know enough about the way the game is played by most of their customers to do this. They're just bad at designing games. GW isn't a diabolically evil company that shits on your army to make you buy a new army, they're just an incompetent business that doesn't understand why you don't like your army.

>>46679792
No, you misunderstand, the information people are quoting from is from the Guardian newspaper, not the report you mentioned. Did you not read the rest of my post? I'll point it out for you.

>The official GW report which isn't very informative

Which it isn't. They didn't explain exactly what the problems were or what was causing it. So this meme that AoS is causing it, isn't based on fact.

>The Guardian report
www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/08/games-workshop-fails-weave-christmas-magic

This is the report that was pasted on /tg/ and people lapped up. It wasn't as detailed as GW, but people are quoting it as if it is informative.

>>46679838
>youre not even reading the retarded gw whining that goes on in these threads multiple times a week
>you're fucking stupid
the only stupid one is you, numbnuts. do you autismal fucktards have to get into hissyfits over this stupid shit every fucking day? you retards dont even need to get baited, you just bitch anyway

>>46679682
>doomsayers

No one is saying doom. We are citing facts. Facts that apparently frighten you so much, you unsuccessfully try to marginalize them with your shitposting.

can we talk about playing with plastic army men instead of being armchair CFOs?

>>46679808
>nah why bother reading any of you mongoloids fighting
>but that guy is totally a shill
>see >>46679851

such shill
wow.

>>46676604
I wish Chaos could assault from deep strike...

>>46679839
I mean sales of publications have increased, White Dwarf for example. Sorry, I probably formatted the sentence poorly, I meant that the sales were up; that the publications were selling better. That was based on that investor doing a breakdown after visiting GW.... I just went and checked my source and it said this:

> but in terms of other metrics, downloads and Sigmar themed magazine sales, management seems more than satisfied.

Source: http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop-agm%3A-relentless-profit-machine

>>46679799

GW has never released internal sales figures. The only date you'll get is from people who have passing knowledge from working in or around GW. I know there is also a distribution lead for Diamond who posts on /tg/ sometimes who has some decent, albeit anecdotal, numbers.

>>46679862

You literally linked my post (>>46679516) and said:

>>That was a Guardian newspaper, not an actual report.

So you were incorrect. You linked a post where I was directly referring to the GW half year fiscals and said it was a Guardian report I was referring to.

>>46679902
>Citing facts

You keep citing numbers from a newspaper article that has no actual basis in any real financial reports and claiming they are fact, and then when we ask for actual fact you just call us shills.

Do you believe that love can bloom on the battlefield?

>>46679777
My current list I am running untill our little tournament ends is as follows (Admitivly pretty shitty)


Sisters of battle CAD
Militarium Tempestus AD
Officio Assassinorum OAD

Summary
2 HQs
1 Elite
5 Troops
3 Fast Attack
3 Heavy Support

Combined Arms Detachment SoB 1414

HQ
1# Canonness
Warlord
Plasma Pistol
Power Maul
Rosarius, Mantle of Ophelia, Meltabombs

Troops
1# Battle Sisters Squad + Dedicated Transport
3 Sisters
1 Heavy Flamer
1 Sister Superior
+ Immolator with Twin-linked Multi-Melta

2# Battle Sisters Squad + Dedicated Transport
3 Sisters
1 Heavy Flamer
1 Sister Superior
+ Immolator with Twin-linked Multi-Melta

3# Battle Sisters Squad + Dedicated Transport
3 Sisters
1 Heavy Flamer
1 Sister Superior
+ Immolator with Twin-linked Multi-Melta

4# Battle Sisters Squad + Dedicated Transport
3 Sisters
1 Sister with Heavy Flamer
1 Sister Superior
+ Immolator with Twin-linked Multi-Melta

Fast attack
1# Dominion + Dedicated Transport
3 Dominions
4 Dominions with Special weapons 2 Flamers / 2Meltas
1 Dominion Superior
Rhino with Laud-Hailer (reroll AoF)

2# Seraphim
8 Seraphims
2 Seraphims with double Hand Flamers

Heavy Support
1# Exorcist
2# Exorcist

3# Penitent Engine Squadron (160)
Penitent Engine (80)
penitent Engine (80)

Allied Detachment - Militarium Tempestus 295

HQ
1# Lord Comissar
Carapace armor (4+ Armor Save)
Bolter
Power Fist

Troop
1# Tempestus Scions
3 Scions
1 Scions with Grenade Launcher
1 Tempestor
Hot-shot Laspistol

Fast Attack
1# Valkyrie squadron
1 Valkyrie

Officio Assassinorum Detachment 140

Elite
1# Culexus

>>46679799
Annual shareholders' reports, available every July or August. Feel free to use google, the relevant info is on the first few pages of each report.

>>46679908
No. AoS has stoked the desire. Before, we just moaned about shit CAD models which were both "boring" and "over-designed" and "undynamic" and "too dynamic" along with retarded rules and stuff. Now we're all sure that GW is going to fail, this time, for real.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But people talk about things they're interested.

>>46679957
>I don't want to actually present my proof so I'll make you find it instead

>>46679932
>profits dropped sharply, this has been proven
>'nuh uh its not a fact i wont be unemployed in a year'
whatever idiot, nobody cares. fact is profits dropped, AoS is an abysmal failure, they had to fuck FW over and start selling plastic 30k just to try recoup. if you are too retarded to understand this just fuck off, its not even a conversation.

can you morons who cant accept reality just shill in some other thread.

>>46679976
Opinions on why things happened are not fact.

>>46679851
This. Anyone who thinks GW is purposefully needing CSM and BA while buffing vanilla SM to get the players to buy a new army are ridiculous. Buy a new codex maybe, but not a new army. Using BA or even CSM models to play any flavor of power armor could hardly be even said to be a proxy.

They just suck at balance/ some writers must be SM/ Tau/ Eldar fanboys. Hence why they became writers for warhammer 40k.

>>46679908
I teamed up my RW with a friends Ultramarines in a 750/750 v 1500 Necrons yesterday.
Bretty good game.
He underestimated my deathstar (which was mostly all I brought) and choose to assault my command squad instead of the Darkshroud with his wraith.
In his defense he didn't understand all it did I guess.
The UM sniper scouts finished off the 3/5 wraiths that were left after my command squad Hit and Ran away.
Ended up right in front of non-powered Orikan and 20 warriors who I challenged out and assaulted the next turn and kept blind when he went Super Saiyan.
On a scale of 1-10 how important do you all feel ObSec is?
Nothing I field has ObSec but everything has scout. Ravenwing have been aggressive and mobile enough that I can fight it out before zooming to end game objectives.
Seems to make for cliffhanger, last minute battles with both sides decimated.

>>46679930
I didn't know you had actually read the report as well, because what you've said has been repeated dozens of times by people who only read the Guardian report, which I linked, which says exactly the same thing.

The GW report is more informative, but it isn't fully informative. So, your post is EXACTLY what the Guardian says, while as you said in a later post, is not the FULL STORY. Which it isn't.

That was my point, it's irrelevant if you had read the other report or not, you were still citing what other people have cited after reading the tl;dr version on the Guardian. But, as I said, your other post goes into future detail. Which goes into what exactly they're unhappy about, what they've done well and what they're aiming to do. Not just "Down £600k, they're sad :("

>>46676676

Why would you club disband instead of simply not use those fucking rules? What are you, queers?

>>46679851
>just bad at designing games

Sorry anon, but thats simply not the case. A multi-million dollar public corporation isnt leaving sales to chance. You better believe they have a clear and well defined strategy to drive sales. And it involves encouraging existing customers to keep making purchases.

File: bloodthirster.jpg (146KB, 492x849px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 492x849px

>>46679908
I just came in the thread and I don't even know what people arguing about, it's all just
>shill
>retard
>idiot

In other news I found out why my LFGS is always out of stock on EVERYTHING.
Because they run a 20% off everything GW policy it turns out people have been buying it bulk and putting it on ebay for 10% off.
They just brought in 10 new plastic bloodthirsters this morning and they were gone by this afternoon, guess I'm going to have to wait for my thirster.

I'm still conflicted as to if I should give him the big strength D at I1 axe or take the vanilla thirster and buy him the "sixes to hit are D" axe to make use of his I9, vanilla has 2 ccws and a whip for ranged but the D thirster has rage.

Can anyone mathhammer who would win in a fight?

>>46679957
But those don't really give full details. As far as I know, they've not mentioned any massively detailed information. The last report didn't mention sales iirc, just that they're trying to fix a problem.

>>46679927
They can, but unfortunately they can't take marks and they'll keep one eye open around the rest of your CSMs.

>>46679929
>management seems more than satisfied

Thats pretty vague, and offers nothing tangible other than they wanted to say something positive.

>>46680024
Your shop doesn't sell at GW prices?

Lucky. Every store in Boston does.

>>46680024
Can't you just place orders with your LGS? That is what I do.
They only really keep characters and paints in stock.
There are boxes on the shelves but if you want something you jsut tell them and they will order it, don't even have to pay till it arrives if they know you.

>>46680020

You don't seem to understand - I'm the anon who worked for GW in manufacturing. They really are that incompetent. I met the studio team several times and worked with them in the design process. There is no evil intent, only a lack of understanding. I'm not saying this defending GW - I am saying this having seen the interior the business. The rules designers aren't instructed to make an army worse to sell another army. They design what they think is good and what they think is good is built off their playtesting inside the ivory tower of the design studio where they play more scenario games with a GM than 'regular' games by a wide margin.

>>46680020
If that was the case, wouldn't new models all be super powerful? Outside of Tau, I can't think of every single new model being OP. Especially not during WHFB. Centurions? I guess. But Succubus for DE? New Nids? New Orks?

>>46679999
opinions are like assholes, they can get fukt.
>>46680024
the D one is the better one, do whatever you want.

File: 99120101000_ImperialSpaceMarine01.jpg (42KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 600x620px

>>46680024
both would lose to this guy

>>46679932
I never cited any numbers, and Ive only included info taken directly from Games Workshops annual shareholders reports.

But dont let me come between you and your imaginary world.

>>46680024
The D-thirster would obviously win in a vacuum.

The problem with the D-thirster is that its going to be a fire magnet and by the time it gets to anything resembling its point cost its going to be wounded and likely die before it swings.

That being said bloodthirsters are pretty shit anyways. If youre bringing one bring the D-thirster but if youre just using daemons and not KDK bring a GUO or something

>>46680060
Yep. New models aren't universally strong. It's rather hit or miss.

Just look at Pyrovores or Maleceptors for the best examples of this.

>>46679972
>I'm too lazy to use google, so I'll just pretend anon is full of shit since I dont like what he's saying

If you truly cared to know the facts, you'd take the 15 seconds and check for yourself. Im on my phone, and I dont really give a shit what you do or dont believe anyway.

>>46680044
The entire things are pretty vague. The official report just says they're down capital returns. But it doesn't explain why. Or what in. Was it AoS? Was the amount they invested in the starter sets not returned? Who knows. It's not really informative. The growth wasn't as good, it seems.

>>46680059
If only you had said "Hey, why don't you get some players in to test for free and make them sign NDA's?"

>>46680077
>LGS already houseruled him as a 30pt upgrade.

>>46680107
That's my point. I assume you're the Manufactureanon. However, I would question what Matt Ward did with Elves. None of that shit could have been done without deliberate thought. You don't make an already powerful army THAT much more powerful. Perhaps he knew AoS was going to be a thing and making them OP as fuck wasn't going to matter for the 5 months they existed. It was terrible playing them. 50 Spearmen in a block was insane.

>>46680127

If you want to blame Kirby for shit the lack of play testing is a great one.

He DESPISED leaks and generally hated customers having any idea of what was coming up. He once told me that in his ideal world customers would know what was coming out when they went into their local GW (Kirby also strongly believed some world existed where he could muscle trade accounts out of the retail picture) and saw new boxes on the shelf. As a result he cracked down hard on any information being shared outside very specific internal channels.

>>46680190
that attitude might have worked in the 90s

>>46680166

He is not. I am.

Matt Ward made Elves better (and GK as well) - and this is going to enrage you - because they were SUPPOSED to be better. He believed that Elves were supposed to be superior to men and chaos and dwarfs. They were designed based on his own personal interpretation of the strength of the army. Matt Ward was a really nice guy but an insufferable cunt when it came to how he chose to write and design.

>>46680047
>>46680056
To be honest I only go there to buy things and play elsewhere so I didn't think to ask other than when are they getting new stuff.

>>46680068
>>46680087
I9 doesn't count for anything? well I guess it's as you say, better in a vacuum but I'm thinking about his general battlefield role. I suppose he can choose not to attack with the axe as he's still s6 ap2 with rage but against something big and scary like a grey knight with a forced halberd or a superheavy who's also swigging around dat D at an inferior initiative it may be better to go with option one.
He does sound much better though.

What are the chances of a knight killing a D-thirster before it strikes?

>>46680077
According to my math skills he has around a 1/3 chance of killing a bloodthirster through rapid fire+over watch before he gets in close combat, I can only imagine how mad I would be if your free model killed my 320 point thirster.

>>46679954
That's pretty soft, in all honesty.
Still looks like fun to play. Tanks might be a problem, depending on how much heavy lifting the Valk does.

>>46680246
>He believed that Elves were supposed to be superior to men and chaos and dwarfs.
And that would have been fine if the points costs reflected that.

>>46680226

90s? It was standard pre-internet. Its 2016. I mean, we're literally almost two decades into the 21st century and hes applying pre-internet mom-and-pop storefront strategies. This is ludicrous.

>>46680253
>What are the chances of a knight killing a D-thirster before it strikes?
nigga i fucking told you last night, he rapes knights they cant even hit him.

the only real threat to a dthister in CC is grey knights, and theyll kill ANY of the thirsters so it doesnt matter. also all of them are going to get shot at, a lot.

>>46679954
Your list is formatted awfully, canonnesses suck, your MSU immolators are good, can't the dominions be in an immolator too? Seraphim and exorcists are good, penitent engines are cool as fuck.
>militarum tempestus
wat the fuck
swap the commissar for a command squad with four special weapons, drop the valk, give your scions two meltas or plasmas. They have deepstrike naturally, so just drop them behind something important. I use four melta command squad, with self-given orders they destroy Knights if i have the Ion shield pointed somewhere else
>culexus
fine

>>46680253
50% to hit if it doesnt get the charge

If your blood thirster somehow manages to stay above 3 wounds before charging the knight then the chance of it dying goes way down.

Pretty guranteed to mulch the knight if hit hits though

>>46680286

He wanted to be able to field (he personally) an army made up of Elves at the power level he thought elves deserved. Matt Ward was a selfish designer, not an evil mastermind.

He also got carte blanche to do what he wanted because he sold models. I knew if Matt was writing a book we needed the molding machines running early because models were going to move.

>>46680190
If that's the case, why isn't Rowntree fixing that fucking archaic idea? As I said in an earlier post, Kirby is a Non-executive Chairmen, by logic he shouldn't get involved. But is it possible he's muscling or influencing Rowntree or others? Play Testing could fix lots of problems. Make them sign NDA's, tell them they can't take in phones or cameras or recording equipment. If they DO go and type out what they saw, who will believe them? We've seen lots of claims on /tg/ about what's up next, they are (or SHOULD) be taken with a whole mine of salt, so would it matter that much?

Who knows. The oddest thing is, Eldar Howling Bashee's were pissed on in 6th for not having grenades. In 7th, they got faux-grenades with their Masks. Very odd, almost as if they read what people moaned about. We know FFG visit here, is it possible GW themselves do?

If so, it might explain the change, if not, then that explains they can see problems and fix them. Which leads to the question; if they can see a model needs something to be worthwhile, why aren't other dexes given the same treatment?

>>46680305
>the only real threat to a dthister in CC is grey knights, and theyll kill ANY of the thirsters so it doesnt matter.
B-but my 7 attacks at I9! that's 4 hits, one of the being strength D, on average Surely that's enough to mulch any minimum size unit. I don't think the D-thirster would do well in that situation even if I gave it the blade of blood for rampage.

>>46680379
>why aren't other dexes given the same treatment?
Because other factions don't have champions on the design teams. Could you imagine if they had put ADB to writing a CSM 'dex instead of Horus Heresy novels?

>>46680379

It isn't Kirby - its Alan Merritt. Meritt is probably the last bit of toxic old guard left. He is the head of IP and shared many of the same poisonous ideas of Tom Kirby but isn't attached to the stink of failure like Kirby is at this point. Ultimately Rountree knows very little (neither did Kirby) the difference is Rountree will admit it. I think you'll see a slow return to play testing but it is going to take time and it is going to take more than a CEO shift. A CEO has a lot of power but not all of it. He is going to have to phase new people into positions to make changes. It isn't easy to shift two decades of culture in 2 years.

I have no idea if the GW design team visits 4chan specifically but I can tell you they do read DakkaDakka, Warseer, etc.

>>46680498

This guy has the right of it. If your army has a champion on the design team you're going to get good rules and good models because they're going to write the book with the idea of playing with it rather than against it.

>>46680246
Yeah but the Elves ended up losing all that OPness when AoS came out. He's not there any more. So what was the point?

They have I6. Meaning outside of other Elves and Chaos Hero/Lords and Vampire Lords, they got to hit first. Since you're going to be fighting chaff, that meant raping everything, including Skaven (then again, they might have be I6, I forget) Lizardmen, Chaos, Dwarfs, Empire, Ogres... but they also had Always Strike First... And since they were faster than basically everybody, it meant a To Hit re-roll. So they basically destroyed formations unless they were 2+. Only ones they'd have more trouble with is Chaos and Lizardmen, maybe Dwarfs. Then they gave them Fight in Extra Ranks, combined with Horde, meant a block of 50 Spearmen would do 50 re-roll S3 attacks. With Armour Piercing (I think Spears for Elves had it, WE at least). Lionguard could do 40 S4 bow attacks, then 50 S3 re-roll attacks in melee. Swordmasters did S5 (or was it S6?) attacks...

Teclis raped everybody bar Lizardmen and Vetock nerfed Slann Bunker.

I'm saying, this wasn't an accident. This was on purpose. He knew how to design rules, he just couldn't control it. You said earlier they didn't design things to specially be bad or good, but he clearly did. He was selling models. So it was a conscious decision to make Elves OP.

>>46680246
I suspected some of this shit you said earlier about balance was just opinion, and not fact. Now I know youre full of shit. Youre fucking stupid if you think anyone believes some manufacturing employee from the US knows the inner workings of Matt Wards mind when it came to design philosophy. That is just your speculation, thanks for playing faggot.

>>46680526
>GW reads Whineseer

Holy fuck, GW is fucking doomed.

So, chances of Alan Merritt dying? How old is he? Can't find anything on Google (not surprised). If he can piss off, maybe something good can come in.

I'm just still not happy that Kirby is still involved with the company. Didn't his wife do the website which cost £4m?

>>46680526

>A CEO has a lot of power but not all of it. He is going to have to phase new people into positions to make changes. It isn't easy to shift two decades of culture in 2 years.

Sure it is. Make a new department, Forgeworld+. Phase out the old guard. Its not a big industry, nobody is going to cry to the government about Games Workshop putting these shits out of the building.

>>46680469
nah if you charge a BT into GK its not going to end well.

dont build your army around the 1 army that is built to wreck it in cc

>>46680276
It's the first real time I've set myself into playing 1850 points.
All previous games have been about 1000-1500 ish.
I am probably going to toss out the entire Tempestus part. I messed that one up by thinking the commisar could give orders.

I've been winning the early point game but it fall apart if the game goes on for too long.
16/16 vs KD (16/8 on turn 5) I got tabled on turn 6
9/18 vs Tyranids (9/4 on turn 5) Tabled on turn 7
24/4 vs Dark Eldar (Feel kinda sorry for the guy)
9/3 vs Eldar (Win but 2 models left)
The two last games I got completly stomped.
3/5 vs GK (lost turn 6, 2 models left)
3/9 vs Necrons (4 Models left)

I kinda know how I want to improve the list going forward.

>>46680536

First - I know how good they were. I play(ed) both games frequently. It is worth noting that the End Times stuff only accentuated what he'd already written. A block of 50 spear elves with Okkam's Mind Razor was amazing from the very beginning of the ASF elf trend. It is also a dullard's build that I could absolutely dominate with Cacophonic Choir.


>>46680555

I had conversations with the guy in Bugman's - you think I didn't take the opportunity to ask him how and why he did things? I traveled to Nottinghamshire twice a year for six years. I was a hobbyist at that point like I am now. I certainly wasn't going to pass up the opportunity.

>>46680595

No but they can sue for wrongful termination. The UK isn't like the states - they don't have right to work states.

Can a Tau Sept world have to Homeworlds? What would the symbol of that Sept look like?

>>46680526
>Alan Merritt
>isnt attached to the stink of failure

Welp, AoS fixed that didnt it? That pretty much ensures Merritt will be remembered as the sack of shit that he is.

>>46680320
Tempestus was honestly picked up for a Valk transport for Culexus.
But yeah, I'm not running cannoness again.

>>46680608
>No but they can sue for wrongful termination
yeah but it wouldnt be wrongful termination since they suck at their jobs

>>46680650
Merritt and Jervis would likely receive significant compensation if they were shown the door. I dont see it happening though.

>>46680637
I know there's one sept with two suns, that has two circles.

I think most septs also have multiple worlds in general. Having a pair of habitible ones wouldn't be that odd.

>>46680608
>>46680650
>>46680705
They could possibly just shift them into another department where they're not able to do as much damage, or for a new design team.

Heck, just stick them all on the Age of Sigmar rules team. There's no point costs anyway, so even if somebody makes a super bullshit unit, it won't matter.

>>46676137
is the only way to get these guys with the overkill set?

>>46680768
they are probably like 30 bucks on ebay

>>46680608
That's exactly my point. What he already had written. ASF on I6 guys with good magic was fucking retarded. It got even worse with WE getting both Dark and Light. Yet you said

>The rules designers aren't instructed to make an army worse to sell another army.

Then said

>Matt Ward made Elves better (and GK as well) - and this is going to enrage you - because they were SUPPOSED to be better.

Followed by

>He also got carte blanche to do what he wanted because he sold models

So, which is it? They either don't design models to sell, or they do. Which is it? Ward designed Elves to be powerful, he was allowed because his models sold. Either way you twist it, it works out the same.

>He made units OP cause he thought they should be
>His units sold
>Therefore he was allowed to carry on cause they sold
>He makes more OP things
>They sell

Or

>He made them purposely OP to sell
>They then sold
>He then was allowed to continue to making them powerful
>They continued to sell

So, which is it? Purposely developing units to be OP and thus sell? Or units sell because they're OP so further models are allowed to be made OP to carry on the sales. Either way, it works out the same. Purposely making models better to sell.

>>46680598
I suppose you're right, he will have support on the battlefield either way so the D-thirster will either survive or fall down dead. grey knight terminators will be swarmed by daemonettes rather than challenged to duels with bloodthirsters.

Ah, that does give me an idea, if I take the D-thirster that means I can take a daemon prince with the D-axe along side him, he's slightly worse but ws9 and I8 don't mean too much when you're facing ws4/i4.

>>46680753
>Heck, just stick them all on the Age of Sigmar rules team. There's no point costs anyway, so even if somebody makes a super bullshit unit, it won't matter.
thats the best way to do it, stick all the useless retards on the AoS team and then when the company admits that AoS is a failure and cans it like 5 years from now, theyll have their excuse to fire all the idiots along with it.

>>46680753
>somebody makes a super bullshit unit

Already done. Nurgle units are stupidly OP. Some Skaven units are stupidly OP. Seraphon are the only 'balanced' dex.

>>46679292
>sameguy
A...are you trying to be PC on 4chan?
What the fuck is going on...

>>46680608
>>46680536
>>46680536
Speaking of elves being OP as shit, were daemons and vampire counts the most broken factions?

Every time someone talks about, was it 6th or 7th, everyone talks about how they shat all over the game.
Why was that? 40k daemons are super strong, why were fantasy daemons?

>>46680869
But there's no points. If things are stupidly OP, then you just get more of your less-OP models.

There's no balancing factor in 40k where you're comparing a Wraithknight to a Stompa and one is half the cost of the other.

Instead, if some army gets a Wraithknight and another gets a Stompa in AoS, people will just look at it and say 'yeah, two stompas seems fair against a single Wraithknight' because there's no points.

Oddly enough, it's probably the one saving grace AoS has, in that lacking points means it's impossible to make undercosted or overcosted units.

>>46680831
Funny, GW as a whole has suppose to be 'dead' and 'dying' for the last 15 years. According to people in this thread, it's going to happen this year because reports said smaller capital gains than expected.

But, good work saying "In 5 years", that gives you a nice timeline to work with. Not too long that people could claim it was successful and just short enough that you can claim smug satisfaction that a company fucked up.

You do realise, if AoS fails, 40k will be directly affected, right?

>>46680932
>You do realise, if AoS fails, 40k will be directly affected, right?
good, 40k is fucking dogshit right now. maybe those idiots will finally learn something and fix it.

just sell the company to blizzard already, idgaf.

if you think AoS is going to be around in 5 years you are brain damaged.

>>46680931
You misunderstand, there is still 'better' units. There is still a sense of balance in the community.

10 Infantry. 1 Monster. 1 Hero. There we go. There will be a better Monster in one dex or another.

For example, a Oldblood on Carnosaur is still better than a Scar-Vet on Carnosaur, which is better than a Troglodon. Temple Guard are better than Saurus Warriors. But conversely, Skinks are worse than Spitevermin, despite being the same 'class'.

The game has community balances already, which is cool, but it still works out better for some.

I know it's a game for fun, for warmup, an introductory game. But some stuff is still better.

>>46680967
So, you're here to watch a house on fire, while people scream inside and try to put it out? You don't care about anything involved, but you have to be here? You can't just walk away?

Interesting. Psychologist would have fun breaking this down for you, i'd ask my sister, but she is in another city.

Oh well, whatever you enjoy.

>>46680997
If something is 'better', that means however you're houseruling army-comps to ensure a fair game is off.

If Skinks are worse than Spitevermin, then you either let someone take more Skinks, or the other person takes less Vermin.

You can't just say 10 infantry, because infantry covers everything from Skinks to Sigmarines.

>>46681040
>You don't care about anything involved
not anymore, all the talent left gw ages ago. now its just a bunch of pencil pushing jerk offs trying (unsuccessfully) to raise profits while the glorified interns write the books.

if they dont wise up and fix this shit, then it deserves to fail, and it will fail. AoS has already failed, thats what you get when you cut costs and let the coffee boy write the 'rules'. they can go fuck themselves

>>46680917
i'm probably wrong but from what i've heard 7th daemons were strong because the magic phase was different, they could stack magic dice like no one else. 8th daemons didn't do too badly but elves had a banner that gave 2++ against magical attacks and a character that caused damaged just by being nearby.

How much background should an army have?
What part of the background is more important?
Do you include named characters?
How do you organize it all?

>>46681040
>>46681119

I think the real frustration is there is no real competitor to Warhammer (40k). You want to fight space marine battles, you have to be involved in Warhammer (40k). If there was Warmachine 40k and it was completely awesome then I think we would all be talking about and playing something else and Games Workshop would have to get its act together.

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>>46681135
However much you want
Whatever you feel is most important
If you want too
By memory? Or if its fairly complex you could just write it down on paper or in notepad.

I dont understand why you need to ask these questions.

>>46681135

I dunno, I collect Blood Ravens and only use cool looking models.

>>46678944
>points are based on creativeness of list.

how?

>>46680823
you do realize that the first argument doesn't require evil intent, and can be accounted for by incompetence.

He's given carte blanche by the decision makers because they don't know what they were doing.
Matt makes army OP, not to sell, but because he feels they should be that way.
The army sells, so decision makers think Matt made a good codex.

The decision makers didn't have to make the decision based on balance, or even know how balance worked, or that it's an issue. All they see is end result.


It's a bit like the Chinese Room problem. It looks from the outside like there is a conversation going on in Chinese, but no one involved actually knows Chinese.

How do I make a Stalinist/Maoist Tau without falling into parody?

>>46681135
>How much background should an army have?

I tend to find a short paragraph suffices in most cases. It should be small enough that you can explain it to people without having to write a book report. Obviously, you can have more.

>What part of the background is more important?

I'd say an army's general motive, location, and tactics. Their motivations are important, as that informs you a great deal about why they're fighting. Location can help establish their theme and personality, like how a force from a jungle world might be more savage and stealthy. Tactics is similar to that, though it also includes who they usually fight. From there, you tie it together with a general theme as well as brief history explaining how they got to that point.

>Do you include named characters?

Generally a good idea to at least name the warlord, depending on how key they are. Not required though.

>How do you organize it all?

Personally I like to frame it as a historical narrative, starting with their origins and touching on any major events.

>>46677087
The sky hammer formation isn't for SW it's for vanilla marines. It's cheese to use that. Even more so due to him having some of the best assualt units in the game in HIS codex.

>>46681065
That's just one form of balancing. Community has done plenty.

>>46681191
its gw has gone into plastic 30k, because its their last hope, FW is the only part of the company with any passion or talent left. theyll ether can the failure/moneysink AoS, and focus on plastic 30k (while letting FW write the game system) to recoup the losses, or theyll go belly up. thats why we saw BaC, rumor has it BaC alone as earned more then all of AoS combined, and its not surprising.

if GW had any brains theyd get good people to write 40k, and actually have people on payroll whos only job was maintaining external balance between the codexes, but GW is too stupid to realize that. theyll probably just en up forcing stupid formation bullshit into 30k and end up killing both games off, and the company along with it.

>>46681119
Okay, so I ask, why are you here?

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>>46681237
You mean KommunOrks, right Komrade?

>>46681233
That's why I said by proxy. They've done it by proxy. They make things OP cause they sell and Ward thinks it's right, so they sell again. Etc.

>>46681271
>killing both games off, and the company along with it.

Okay, so how long will that take? As somebody has said, this has been destined to happen for years.

>>46681286
none of your business

>>46681237
Well, Tau tends to put a high emphasis on lives of its citizens, which puts them a bit at odds with that sort of philosophy, no matter how much people joke about communism.

I would suggest basing it around an Ethereal in charge of a colony on the far fringes of the Empire, either leaving it entirely or just far enough out of the way that he has a lot of jurisdiction.

The catch is that the colony is on a deathworld, meaning that efforts to create it are difficult with a low population. Thus, the Ethereal's solution is to simply increase the population size, though in doing so he's basically just ensuring that there's less resources to go around as many under-equipped Tau die from the hostile environment.

Add in them being in a hostile region of space so reinforcements and supplies are hard to attain, and you've got a situation where the only real strategy is to go for quantity over quality.