/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Chronicles of fagness

>>46638970
Hunter, Hunter, and more Hunter. It's fucking great.

Second is either Vampire or Changeling.

>>46638985
Why?

>>46639006
I've played hunter and had a blast doing it. Really that simple.

>>46639041
Chronicles or World?

>>46639121
Chronicles, because World's is garbage.

>>46639139
Well why do you say that?

>>46639153
I don't need to explain myself to you buddy.

>>46639180
I aint your buddy, pal.

>>46638970
>Whats your favorite line? And why?
>Demon
Because I love spy shit and I love the imagery of the God-Machine
>Mage
Because I love magical shit and I like the systems for casting shit

>>46638970
i need more bait to get mad about

>>46639244
He ain't your pal, friend.

>>46639619
And your no friend of mine,amigo.

What was the most dickish thing that your mage did?

You have played a mage, haven't you?

>>46638970
Hunter and Mage.

Hunter because it is so much fun just hunting shit and investigating to hunt more shit.

Mage because I love wizards doing wizard shit, except no one can see them do wizard shit

I was building an oWoD vamp character and ended up with some flaws that I've found on some sites but not on others. Is it just people creating their own stuff and putting it alongside the rest?
The flaw was adolescent by the way

>>46639933
Most oWoD gamelines have 30-plus books and at least three editions. No wonder that a fansite might miss one trait or another.

>>46639970
That makes sense, I didn't read the little introduction at the top of the subnet.com page so I assume it must have been added in a later book.

>>46639769
I played a mage for 1 session.
The most dickish thing he did was abandon a party composed primarily of women in order to search out the area around our new sanctum for anything note-worthy to Life/Spirit sight.

>>46639933
That also sometimes happens. A lot of sites copy/paste between each other as well, so stuff spreads around like that. I know there's a Child flaw in the Mage book, but I don't recall a canon reference to an Adolescent flaw.

>>46640047

Huh? What's wrong with a mage examining the area around a new sanctum?

What does the gender of the group (players or PC's) have to do with anything?

>>46640149
I can see it being a bit foolish to leave people behind if you don't really trust them, but dickish? No.

>>46640199

It's true we don't have all the facts.

However, I still don't understand how the fact that the group (PC or players?) was comprised mostly of women is at all relevant to anything.

Are women, no less female mages, suddenly incapable of being left alone without some form of male protection or supervision?

>>46640357
I was mostly thinking how it was stupid to leave a group of any kind of NPC's without supervision.
That's the kind of thing that leads to them fucking you over majorly.

>>46640149
>>46640199
>>46640357
>>46640460
When I say a party composed mostly of women, I don't mean the rest of the PCs(although they stayed at the party), I mean one of them straight up invited all her girlfriends to our sanctum for a housewarming party.

I mostly just mentioned it because the dick-to-vagina ratio being like 2:30 is a big part of the reason my guy fucked off; if there'd been more guys there(besides him and the Mastigos), he might have stayed, but he was more interested in making sure the area around the sanctum was safe, so he fucked off to do it alone without saying anything.

I honestly can't think of anything I did that was more dickish, since the session only lasted a few hours and we never had a second session.

I think my favorite line's still Promethean. Not a single bad book in the bunch.

>>46640537
It's called the best game you'll never play for a reason.

>>46640537
>>46640600
Eh, I don't like the Zeka.
It's like the writers thought something like this;
"We need another element..."
"How about nuclear?"
"Nuclear what?"
"The element nuclear!"
"Brilliant!"

Apart from that, It's awesome.

Do we know what element 2E Unfleshed will have?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKL3nzJxp0U

I want to learn Ren'Py and make a CofD dating sim.
How would you do a CofD dating sim?

>>46641012
I wouldn't.

Or make it a Hunter game instead.

>>46641012
Do you want weebshit, or something more serious, anon? This is important

>>46641134
Eh. I just thought the video has a good point, and I've been meaning to try making *something*.

>>46641012
Lighthearted diversions out the ass, then every route without exception ends in violent tragedy that everybody laments but won't pause from for a second because they will always choose it over you.

>>46641012
A young man becomes a Wolf-Blooded and gets recruited into the local Werewolf Pack because he's friends with another Wolf-Blooded. Your romance options are the Werewolves, one for each Auspice.
They're all men, of course, because gaywolves are a best

At the end, after you've decided on your romance option, your choices determine what Auspice you become when your character suddenly undergoes his First Change.

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>>46641594
Fine if we're going to do this shit, let me ( >>46641127 ) get detailed.

Young guy is drawn into the realm of the supernatural when his favorite crazy teacher/uncle/sempai is killed by a monster (a Beast) and he takes up the Vigil. He gets drawn into the supernatural world around him and gets some hard decisions to make (while hard). You've got the local vampires, one of which is super cute and has a ghoul you have a romantic interest in. An absent minded mage girl tags along of course. Some tomboy werewolf grill. Another hunter who is a total ice queen. Objective is to get laid and kill whatever killed the Professor.

>>46641689
add the rest of the supernaturals as post-release romance options. A Promethean who arrives in town that has decided that the hunter is part of of his Pilgrimage. A mummy who awakens and reveals to the hunter that a minor family heirloom of his is, in fact, a relic of lost Irem, etc.

>>46641834
>Changeling Catgirl

You forgot the most important thing of all dude.

>>46641840
holy shit. my eyes have been opened.

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>>46641856
Thou hast been enlightened.

>Pic related is the Mummy

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>>46641594
That's a legitimately decent idea.

>>46641689
Also decent, and has a bit of a Fate/Stay feel, where the getting laid is secondary.

This kind of reminds me that a single player Mage game I was in felt like a dating sim.

>>46641876
A Skyrim thief?

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>>46641901
No an Irem thief I just wanted an excuse to post cheesecake sue me


This might be closer.

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>>46641929
The demon love interest, a secret plotline that you have to unlock by following some clues directly into a conflict between her & an angel. She threatens to kill you to protect herself unless you make a pact with her. You get a couple options:
A). A precious childhood memory
B). Your day job
C). Your current love interest's place in your life.

The first two make getting the demon gf plot harder but the third one starts it instantly & shuts down the plot with whoever you were pursuing beforehand immediately.

>>46641990
Neat, I really like that. It fits demon line really well.

Of course there's also the option to end up becoming a Slasher if you kill too many waifu's and the Beast drives you insane.

>>46642012
What about a slasher hero.

>>46642090
>Slasher Hero

No. Just no.

>>46642106
Think about it, that the darkest humans can get.

>>46642158
Have it as a Bad End, or not at all.

>>46641990
Wouldn't giving the Demon your girlfriend's place in your life mean the Demon is dating them? THAT one seems the one least likely to lead to romance.

Also, keep in mind that you don't actually lose anything.

>>46642012
>>46642158
Better than getting pushed off the roof after getting drunk with Misogynist Harry Potter.

>>46642253
the demon becomes your gf. She takes your GF's place. Your current GF forgets you two were ever together. You and the demon have always been dating.

>>46642253
>>46642295
Or it leads to a threesome scene because reasons.

>>46642295
But everyone else know you and your previous girl friend should be together.

>>46642312
such is the way of demonic pacts.

>>46642295
>>46642303
>>46642312
>>46642325
That's not how Demonic Pacts work

You don't actually lose anything. You give up connections. You shift how other people are related to you to the Demon, and they gain that relationship instead and the world accommodates as the Cover forms. You're trading the [Relationship] tag to the Demon. You no longer have that status and the Demon does.

"My [Girlfriend]" becomes "the Demon's [Girlfriend]".
"My [Dog]" becomes "the Demon's [Dog]".

Or, more accurately, the Cover's.

How about this: Two girls, one of them is the demon, the other one seemingly perfectly normal... But she's just another cover of the Demon, created to make sure you don't cheat on her (or someone else. Depending on Demon personality.)

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>>46642492
Only those directly effected change their memories. Everyone else still remember the original connection.

Can you guys give me a rundown on what happened during Gehenna?

>>46642632
Which scenario? Which splat?

>>46642632
Cain & Lilith DEFINITELY fuck

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>>46642669
Scratch that, I don't care. Four options for VTM, according to the book. There's also the withering in all four scenarios, where everyone gets constantly weaker and eventually dies.

One, the Red Star that turned up at the end of the week of nightmares that everyone thought was a big fuck you turned out to be the instrument of judgement and God had his judging hat on. Lets loose a divine illness - the withering- that slaughters vampires inside of 40 nights, sends a prophet to save anyone willing to repent with a gargoyle bodyguard, begging all kindred to seek redemption. Some do. Unlife goes on. The rest die, humans never break the masquerade. Caine sort of cursed himself rather than God, it turns out, in this one. I forget.

Next one still involves the judging hat, but Lilith is wearing it this time, and she is *pissed*. She's got a pile of antediluvians, a raging boner for murder-as-justice and a habit of trying to recruit idiots. Saulot's taking a swing at ending Lilith, or possibly all vampires, with Caine and the rest. There's a chance that Lilith being Lilith she'll annihilate everything in the process. The real Brujah is among the folks on Lilith's side, along with mortal and brood relatives of the antediluvians, the Crone, etc. The knock down brawl is hilarious. Abel can appear with his murder hat on.


>>46638979

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>>46642868

Another scenario involves Tzimisce waking up from his mushroomy nap beneath new york and goes a bit berserk trying to chow down on it. He gets killed. Again. Then a bunch of mortals and vampires go on talk TV, a shitload of antediluvians go to town on the sabbat, the inconnu - anyone who isn't a cammie, basically. There's also Vampire Jesus running around somewhere. Saulot turns into a new Caine, kills Set and Malkav and then gets asked to be a new vampire jesus by an angel. All vampires are forgiven thanks to Saulot's sacrifice which actually destroys the city and all antediluvians present, but the withering continues and all vampires die anyway, but some get to be forgiven and become human.

Last one is Vampire: The Werewolfing. The masquerade gets loose, Humanity realises there are a giant pile of parasites and gets their murder hat on, because everything is a hat now. Some nations try to be nice, but then realise that's horseshit and start carpet bombing cities containing elders as a warm up for the nuking. The Setites commit suicide because they woke up Set, who got himself killed in this scenario pre-scenario. And Set basically told them to get fucked and kill themselves. So they do. Every other 3rd gen wakes up at this point and shit goes pearshaped. They declare war on earth and win. Handily. They carve up the world among themselves. Saulot and Toreador are off somewhere rooting in a ditch, I assume. But it doesn't last long, some get toppled, the remainder declare war on each other and go to town. Nosferatus becomes a turbo-elephant and starts stomping on the earth which is now Gangrel, Lasombra fucks off to the abyss, etc. Malkav dies because reasons that I forget. Tremere nearly enslaves humanity but fucks it up and dies, thanks, thaumaturgy. The withering continues, all vampires die, noone has any chance of redemption outside of Golconda, and maybe not even then.

>>46642868
>>46642940
Wow that's fuckin lame

>>46642955
Caine only really turns up in the second scenario to kick Lilith's teeth in. That's what pissed me off.

>>46642940
On that note, can anyone tell me what Demon: The Fallen's ending fiction is about? I'd never played the game, unlike VTM, but always wanted to. He counts down to two and then gets murdered? Why was his subordinate stabbing him with the starthorn? Why was it permanent this time?

Also if there were stats for Lucifer. He seemed alright in the fiction. Permanent torment score of 1 and all. He and Caine probably spent their time drinking in a bar somewhere.

>>46643049

Ol' Sam Haight probably tried drinking with the only once, and they just glared him out.

So. I've been thinking on how Totems work.

Is it a special kind of Manifestation they have?
I mean, the Totem's power is a direct function of the effort the pack puts in, right?

It feels kind of like the Infernal option of returning to being a Whisperer, and hoping they can gain additional strength, only now they fall into being a weak-ass totem, and hope the pack can lift them higher.

Do we have anything on the blood/bone, mask/dirges for Mages yet?

>>46643836
Mages keep the Virtue/Vice thing mortals have, because they're just mortals with access to the supernal.

>>46643945
That isn't completely true. While the do keep Virtue and Vice, Wisdom and their obsessive nature does show that their is more to Awakening than just getting powers. For example, If I remember right Mages don't lose Wisdom from murder as long as it's premeditated.

>>46643836
>>46643945
>>46645592

They also get Obsessions, which I suppose falls under Anchors?

>>46638970
Does anyone have a collection of the novels beyond what's in the mega bin?

In 2e, vampires seem to have gotten an insane boost with the new awesome physical disciplines, and boosted Frenzy.
Werewolves have also picked up a ton of new upgrades.
Which one is the strongest now?

>>46646440
Depends on what you're doing. A Vampire fully focused on combat lags a bit behind a Werewolf who is focused on combat. Vampire mental powers blow anything Werewolves have out of the water, Fetishes make Werewolves more versatile, but they both have really cool utility powers, although I think Werewolves might be Vampires out on that. Blood magic is stronger than Rituals, but Rituals are cheaper and can do things blood magic can't.

How many people play games set in their home town?
For those who don't, do you pick real places and add made-up stuff up? Do you pick one of the example places in one of the books? Do you invent a new area out of whole cloth?

>>46648574

I usually just pick a city that none of my group has been to, do a bit of research to make sure the feel's OK, then make up the rest.

>>46648574
I set it in a town I've been to once because I was like, "Oh, it'll be fine. just do whatever." by the time the campaign was a few sessions in I had utterly macerated the city in order to fit what I needed for the campaign, which is fine.

>>46648574
Most of the local LARPs I've been part of have set themselves here because it's the easiest method to do so. We're planning Ascension once the Vampire game ends, and that's going to be set in a fictional city in the midwest/south midwest like Texas. I also played in one tabletop that was based here.

Otherwise I build my own cities and settings, like Queens Point for the short-lived Sabbat game we had going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pRROs8oerU
Why does this make me think of the Seers?

>>46649109
On second thoughts this is more of a Slasher song.

This is based on that attempt to crowbar the Tzimsce into VtR as a Ventrue bloodline.
>VtR Tzimsce becomes a member of the Ordo Dracul.
So, when will we get Vozhd Dragons?

Okay, anons, where's a good place to set Promethean outside of the American Midwest? Thinking of running a campaign once 2E is out.

>>46650341

Would it be cheating to suggest the American Southwest?

>>46650341

Poland?

>>46650875
>prometheans are jews
it makes so much goddamn sense

>>46650915

... What? There's, like, 25,000 Jews in a country of 38.5 million people. How do you go from Poland to Jews?

>>46650990

... I thought about it and now I'm sad. Though come to think of it, there's probably a lot of Prometheans made from the Holocaust dead.

>>46650341
What time period?

>>46651052
>there's probably a lot of Prometheans made from the Holocaust dead.
Unique Lineage or one of the more common ones? Also I can assume there were quite a few Sin-Eaters created by the Holocaust, mainly Silent or Stricken, possibly Torn.

>>46642868
>the withering
Isn't it called Wormwood?
I remember the first one, reading it, where a number of vampires follow the prophet and the gargoyle to a church for 40 nights, and those who are forgiven survive, though not all do, including the gargoyle.

>>46651087

>Unique Lineage or one of the more common ones?

So this is how the idea for the Dark Kingdom of Wire got started in Wraith...

>>46650341
Romania. Lots of folk lore, you;ve got the Carpathians through multiple nations, lots of different scenery and several ethnic groups.

And gypsies to kill.

>>46651121
Wormwood is the star, but it might be. I don't remember, I haven't played it in for-ever.
>>46651151
Not to mention tech levels from fuck-all to holy shit what through the nation and nearby ones, plenty of mortal tension and presumably supernatural tension, with multiple super-varieties.

>>46651076
I'm thinking modern but not sure.
>>46651151
Oooh, this is good. Gonna look into it, thanks anon

>>46651087
What do you think the Nazis did when someone got gassed and then promptly came back?

>>46651495
Tossed them in a secret lab to try to study them and replicate them to create undead Ubersoldat. Because I love that old cliche.

>>46651495
Well the first response would be to try and put enough holes in them to drop them, this would quite obviously fail to work against a Sin-Eater.

>>46651181
The vampires call the star Wormwood, and the name of the plague (I don't think it ever comes up in character in the game though) is Wormwood. Technically both are the same, since the Red Star appearing heralded Wormwood and it becomes the Wormwood mystical vapor to affect the vampires.

>>46651543
I remember that in one hunter supplment it talks about one member of Thule Gesselschaft that tried to identify the genetics that caused lycanthropy,in order to create a new race of supersoldiers

>>46651773
I just realized a Gangrel Bloodline the revolves around rooting different types of plants into your body might be interesting, especially if one of their unique takes on Protean+Bloodline Discipline was morphing parts of you body with elements of the plants rooted into yourself. The other parts of this Discipline are being able to synthesis any form of plant toxin inside your body and infuse it into people with skin contact and something to do with Grafting Manadagoras into people to make them into ghouls. Unfortunately you can only feed by absorbing blood into your skin, and as your BP goes up you slowly turn into a tree (think Harold from FO3).

>>46651890
Oh those wacky nazis.

>>46651998
... that sounds cool, yeah. Of Rose and Thorn is a really neat power, and a Bloodline based around additional manipulation of that into it's own Discipline, rather than being a use of Animalism, wouild be neat.

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>>46648574
Teen Wolf: The Forsaken actually took place in my town with a little fictionalization, since it makes a very good 'TV rich white suburb' that's close enough to both the big city and spots of wilderness that we could have competing plot threads. We've also done games set in Seattle (the ST's hometown), but our next is going to be a lot of completely made up locations since it's an FBI town-hopping deal.

>>46650341
Also suggesting Eastern Europe, and I'll add Australia to the mix. Lots of uninhabited land to use when you need to go to the wastes, plus the ever present depression of being on Prison Island.

>>46652234
What do you make of the whole 'As your BP goes up you turn into a tree.' thing?

>>46638970

Mummy, because I'm a sucker fir Egyptian aesthetics and I like that the game enables you to explore most of recorded history.

>>46651151
>and gypsies to kill

edgy

>>46648574
currently running a werewolf game in my home town. it's going good, but i think for the next campaign i'm going to try doing a fictional city in the same region(ohio valley) so I can do some more outlandish stuff. Though some of the things in the Shadow for the current town are fun. I turned the unfinished Cincinnati subway system into an ongoing series of tunnels being carved out in the Shadow. by spirits of labor, led by a spirit of hope/the subway system itself. People traveling sometimes find random new holes into the underground.

>>46652282
I don't know what FO3 is, but I'd say you start taking on more treelike features; as your BP goes up at certain thresholds, you lose mobility as your body becomes more wooden and barklike. Perhaps a dot or two of Armor at really higher levels, similar to the drawbacks/benefits of the Macellarius.

>>46648574
I'm currently running a game set in my hometown, Phoenix. Had a player who also lived here, when we started, but he had to drop out, and the rest of my group lives in different states, so I can make shit up as I see fit.

I want a new WoD Gypsy bluebook for CofD.

>>46652380
I think the most unfortunate thing about the curse Is that your now even more vulnerable to being burninated.

>>46651396
>I'm thinking modern but not sure.
Balkan - Serbs gonna Serb
Egypt / Syria / Israel - old faiths
South America - drug cartels and stuff

personal favorite: Prometheans in service of Bandera's Ukrainian Insurgent Army during WW2. vs Nazi Supernatural vs Bolshevik Supernaturals vs Jewish cabala vs Poles

>>46652491
Oh yes, also any source of aggravated damage does an additional +1 damage automatically per the Mekhet weakness.

>>46642492
This sounds like everything Pact-related is interactive via the Space Arcanum.

Interesting.

>>46645592
>For example, If I remember right Mages don't lose Wisdom from murder as long as it's premeditated.
Incorrect. They're both Wisdom sins, but premeditated murder is higher up the Wisdom chart than impassioned murder, which is the opposite of the Morality chart.

>>46652495

This feels like it could get silly very easily.

>>46652643

Demons are basically summed up by the Mastigos Arcana.

>>46648574
I made a vampire setting for the twin cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul, but never really got to exploit that setting. I really need to find my notes, shit was cash.

>>46652754
Embeds and Exploits feel more like Fate to me, for the most part, like the "I reach into my pocket and find that I happen to have exactly the item I need" one.

>>46652722
Silly in a good way, maybe!

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Am I the only one who finds the Asakku in V20 Black Hand really disturbing? I think it's because they remind me of "The Thing", that movie always freaked me out... they're constantly shifting and changing their forms every single night, poisoning entire frickin' ecosystems with Vicissitude through blood and forcibly infecting other vampires until they become Asakku as well.

>"You are not a vampire. You are a Discipline personified."
>"You are no more an individual than a raptor’s feather on a wing or a single memory locked in a mind with a million memories."
>"Master Vicissitude and it will unlock the secrets of the Ancients."
>"Non-Asakku who inherit Vicissitude from a Clan or bloodline usurp power. Convert or destroy them."

>>46652643
More Mind than Space, really. You aren't changing where things are, or anything spatially related; it's entirely how the relationship is perceived by those involved in the Pact that changes; the Pactee forgets about it, and the person the relationship is with re-associates every part of that relationship with the Demon.
Granted, some Space-fuckery might happen, if the terms of the Pact necessitate a change of residence or something along those lines for either of the involved parties.

>>46652825
In My Pocket doesn't give you what you need, though, it gives you whatever object you want to pull out of your pocket; thus, Space.

>>46652875
I think that's the point of them, to be disturbing.

>>46652643
I was thinking Fate, but technically, yeah, Sympathies are Space.

>>46652825
That's really more of a "Matter", if you want to really shoehorn it, but Mages can't create something from nothing right out of the gate. There's also the Exploit version of "In My Pocket" that lets you pull shit from somewhere else.

Really, it's not Arcana at all. Arcana work through symbolic connections and patterns that exist between the Fallen and Supernal. Demons use secret back doors and take advantage of the way the world is created.

Mages are programmers, Demons are those Speedrunners who wallglitch and skip whole sections of a game by jumping backwards while picking their nose and taking damage.

>>46652897
They did a good job of it...

*Shudders*

>>46652911
No, Mages are the people who buy a Walkthrough, Demons are the people who worked on the Dev team.
They both know how to beat the game, but for different reasons, and using different routes.

Demon powers weren't being said to be Arcana, though, I'm pretty sure we were just discussing what Arcana their stuff would fall under; it's mostly either Mind or Space, with a few exceptions(Hellfire is Forces, for example)

>>46652978
>Mages are the people who buy a Walkthrough,
That's a terrible analogy that makes no sense and doesn't match how Mages can change reality on a whim. They have access to the source code.

>I'm pretty sure we were just discussing what Arcana their stuff would fall under;
It's important to keep in mind *how* they work, not just what affect they do.

Do you al have experience making pcs for a group?
My group wants to do a VtR oneshot, and I'm struggling to make a diverse group of vampires to display the variety of the game. What groups/clans are important to display, besides all of them? I find it hard to show off Order of the Crone and Ordo Dracul in a oneshot, while Carthians and Invictus seem shoeins.

>>46652877
"Changing how things relate to other things" is literally Space. Symbolic relationships (like a marriage, for example, or a boss/employee relationship) is just as real as a distance-based relationship to the Space Arcanum.

Hell, with the way Sympathy works, it's MORE real (to the Arcanum, at least).

Which arcanum controls water?

>>46653563
>Nosforatu Seer of the Crone. Disfigurment is he lacks eyes, but can still see.
>Eccentric Ventrue Ordo member who dresses like a victorian era gentleman

There you go.

>>46653643
Matter, although you can also use other Arcana depending on what you want to do with the water.

http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-black-hands-and-smiling-faces/

>No The Pack
>No Mage
>Only smiles

>>46653033
>That's a terrible analogy that makes no sense and doesn't match how Mages can change reality on a whim. They have access to the source code.
They explicitly don't, though. The Supernal is not the source code of the universe, it's a symbolic guide to it.
Mages don't alter the source code; they alter their walkthrough, and the game changes to fit.

>It's important to keep in mind *how* they work, not just what affect they do.
Right, and In My Pocket is still Space, because you're pulling an object out of your pocket from somewhere else at random. Deep Pockets is a stronger version of the same effect; instead of grabbing *any* flashlight, you specifically grab the one you left sitting on your bookshelf before you left.

>>46653595
You're not really changing the relationship, though, just how it's perceived by those involved, as >>46642624 points out. Anybody who isn't DIRECTLY affected by the Pact will think the relationship has always been that way, anybody else is probably going to think it's sort of odd that A is now dating B, when they were dating C yesterday.

>>46653643
>Which arcanum controls water?

It depends on what you want to do wit the water.

Generally, water is controlled or altered using Matter as the primary Arcanum. However, water as part of a living thing is under the purview of Life, as part of weather like snow and rain, it is controlled with Forces, etc.

>>46653653
I need 8 characters total, and that is a good start for a few, but I need complete characters.
Are the devs published games scripts a good jump?

>>46653755
Yep, they carry quite a few. Some act as better introductions than others. Quick-Start guides work fine as well.

>>46653755
i've never read any of the vampire SAS's(scenarios basically) but the hunter ones are pretty good. They're not going to get you complete character personality profiles or anything, though and if you need more than the broad strokes you may have to write extra content or work on your improv skills, which is always a good thing for GMs.

>>46653717
>In My Pocket is still Space, because you're pulling an object out of your pocket from somewhere else at random.
Actually, as far as I can tell, it's created out of nothing, though that's not entirely accurate. You're reaching into your pocket and pulling out something that, in some conceivable quantum state, could be in your pocket. Some random dude in Des Moines isn't losing his cellphone. You're more or less pulling a random cellphone out of your pocket that wasn't there.

Although it probably does have the number of a random guy in Des Moines, also a pizza parlor in Jersey that's been out of business since before cellphones became a thing.

Holy shit, V20 Black Hand is one of the worst books I've read in ages.

>>46653933
Nothing says there isn't somebody, somewhere, losing the thing you pull out of your pocket, though.
Personally, I'm inclined to say that the Embed doesn't create something out of nothing, because that's more in the realm of Exploits.
So, you may very well pull the phone of some guy in Des Moines out of your pocket, but only if his phone is somewhere it could conceivably disappear from; you aren't going to steal it while it's in his line of sight or hands, but you might take it out of his pocket if he's paying little enough attention that someone could pick his pocket anyways.
And hell, given that the roll for the Embed is Dex+Larceny, I'm doubly inclined to say you're stealing something from another location that it could be stolen from.

>>46654254
Is it?

What's wrong with it?

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>>46654308

You know when people bitch about oWoD being all about endless "conspiracies withon conspiracies" dickwaving? The entire book is like that. Shit like "the Sabbat basically belongs to us" fills the pages. They completely fucked up the lore of the Old Clan Tzimisce (they went from faithful servants of Kupala to the people who bound her and stole her power on their antediluvian's orders). The new Maeghar guys are basically "what if the Kiasyd were angry and even more antisocial."

And the art is all fucking atrocious.

>>46654554
>Implying it wasn't like that before

Have you read the fucking oWoD book before?

>>46654554
The art is atrocious in the ENTIRETY of the V20 line.

>>46654554
>You know when people bitch about oWoD being all about endless "conspiracies withon conspiracies" dickwaving? The entire book is like that. Shit like "the Sabbat basically belongs to us" fills the pages.
Isn't that the whole point of the True Black Hand?

>>46654254
>>46654308
>>46654554
I like the expanded Diablerie rules, at least?

>>46648574
Currently running a V20 game set in my town. Its a decently rural place (pop. 20,000) so I made it a plot point that it's weird for Kindred to be here.
Most of my players made their characters themselves, but as vampires. It's worked better than you'd expect.

>Primary among the ideological standpoints of the Sect is the Hand’s preservation, protection, and loyal service to the Antediluvians. This view alone separates the Sect from any other.
Oh good, the True Black Hand is even more retarded than the Camarilla AND the Sabbat.

>>46655218
>The ideal the Tal’Mahe’Ra most fervently pursues is disruption for all vampires who do not conform to their views. If Kindred do not observe and acknowledge the truth as the Hand does, hunt the beings the Hand pursues, or share love for the kine, they are doomed to perish beneath the Hand’s collective weight.
So the exact same backstabbing dickhead bullshit everyone hates the Guardians of the Veil for.

Got it.

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>>46655250
>Guardians
>Backstabbing

COMRADE, DOES THE STASI DO NOTHING MORE THAN KEEP US SAFE FROM OURSELVES?

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>>46654554
>And the art is all fucking atrocious.

>>46655250
>Over the course of millennia, the Old Clan has silently borne witness to the single greatest failing of their decadent, Vicissitude-laden Clansmen: hypocrisy. For all their pontificated cawing about evolution, they cannot adapt. Their desperate clinging to staid pantomime, ceremony, and the tradition of the Voivodate nearly destroyed them in their war with the Tremere. Following that, their antiquated values found no shelter from the modernizing world around them. Their fiefdoms no longer protected them from the constant progressive fury of the kine’s flowering scientific expansions. The superstitious fear they had erected their kingdoms upon were walls made of sand when faced with the wonders of the steam engine, the telephone, and the computer. Thrust out by an inferno of irony they could not contain, the Tzimisce are now the ones naked, hiding, and afraid of the kine. The Old Clan smile when reflecting on the poetic symmetry in the Eldest’s ever-blossoming composition.
Jesus this is insufferably smug.

>>46655154
I'm with this anon, the Tal'Mahe'Ra has always been about being superior pricks and dicks that make and break conspiracies on a daily basis. Like everyone else in the WoD, they're idiots. In their own retarded way.

But if you want something (realtively) straight-forward without endless conspiracies, go pick up or download Anarchs Unbound (if you haven't already).

I do agree that the art in V20 Black Hand sucks balls though.

>>46655218
>Camarilla responds to blatant existence of Ravnos antediluvian by sticking their fingers in their ears and loudly insisting that nothing is wrong
>Sabbat want to kill the Antediluvians before they wake up, but go about this by being violent, obvious, blood-drenched morons
>True Black Hand think that if they just beg forgiveness when the Antediluvians wake up and kill everyone who disagrees with them, everything will be fine, and shit will be great for normal mortals
Is there something in the vampiric condition in VtM that turns old, policy-making vampires into complete fucking idiots?

All of these grand, world-shaping, inescapable conspiracies are completely retarded.

>>46655543
Is this the true horror of oWoD?

Everything in the world is controlled by one of a few massive, inescapable conspiracies, and each option is completely ass-backwards and retarded?

>>46655543
>>46655591
Art imitates life. oVamp is the horror of bureaucracy left to fester for thousands of years.

>>46654296
>Nothing says there isn't somebody, somewhere, losing the thing you pull out of your pocket, though.
But there's literally no reason to even assume that. The power outright says that it pulls out something generic that you could, conceivably, have had. It's an item glitch. The OTHER power works the way you're imagining this.

You're not stealing it, you're palming it from whatever quantum state that it's in. If it caused some kind of complication like that, you can bet that it would have mentioned it.

>>46654554
>The entire book is like that. Shit like "the Sabbat basically belongs to us" fills the pages.
So literally what the Tal'Ma'Rahe has always been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj1RP2khh8s

Who hunter here

>>46655543
>Is there something in the vampiric condition in VtM that turns old, policy-making vampires into complete fucking idiots?
Little known fact. Being an elder increases one's vulnerability to sunlight to such a degree that they're forced to climb up their own ass as far as possible in order to survive each daybreak.

>>46655543
>>Sabbat want to kill the Antediluvians before they wake up, but go about this by being violent, obvious, blood-drenched morons

Y'know, in the V20 Dark Ages, there's some info given on a "what if" scenario, as in what would happen if the Salubri *didn't* become virtually extinct during the Dark Ages (by, you know, getting aid from the Salubri Watchers and actually fighting back against the Tremere rather than bending over and letting themselves get fucked)...

Basically, the Salubri, Tzimisce and Lasombra (along with a f*ckton of Malkavians and loads of Antitribu) form the Sabbat, and this leads to the Camarilla (in the Final Nights) only surviving in a few cities in Europe and the American South. In the rest, the Sabbat reign supreme.

The whole thing leads to a "calmer, more philosophical" Sabbat that still wait for the coming of the Antedeluvians, but with far more practicality and actual GODDAMN PLANNING.

But yeah, in that world, the Ancients won't awaken to a vampiric world in chaos that they can rape and pillage and subsume at their leisure, but will instead find a united Kindred army working together to kill them the moment they start waking up.

Goes without saying that the Antedeluvians are probably still going to casually crush 90% of them, but it makes for a more epic showdown than "Ancients wake, everyone dies automatically because fuck you".

>>46655919
Sounds fucking solid actually.

>>46653698

Even if Mage 2e is finished, Paradox still has to approve it and Drivethru has to get it in their servers.

>>46655952
Paradox is currently just finished with a major EUIV DLC and finishing up HOI4. They probably will leave the publishers to determine if it's good to go.

>>46655982
Paradox doesn't approve it, Dracula does
He has nothing to do with the games

>>46656066
Good to know.

>>46655919
So what you're saying is the Camarilla, and more specifically the Tremere, ruined everything?

>>46655982
>>46656066

Point being, even so, we've still got a bit.

>>46655726
this song is fucking terriblle holy shit. he raps worse than the lonely island guys & unironically & the llyrics are painfully lame and this is coming from someone who thinks "bring me to life" bangs.

never associate such shit with hunter: the vigil ever again.

have this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri5F633xSsY

>>46655919
That is the coolest fucking thing I've ever heard.
Is V20 Dark Ages a complete gamebook, or does it require the V20 main book as well?

>>46656204
Well, the Tremere are power-hungry dicks who turn anything they touch into shit...

But really, a great deal of fault lies with the Salubri. If the Tremere didn't exist, and had diablerized and persecuted the Salubri (and screwed over Tzimisce by making Gargoyles) there wouldn't be enough animosity to get the Sabbat really started...

...Y'know what, fuck it, everyone's a bigoted, power-hungry retard, or just plain old retarded. That's what ruined everything from the get-go.

>>46656329
It's a complete gamebook.

>>46656329
It works just fine on its own, but it does make some references to the original V20 book as well here and there. On the whole though, you should be able to get everything you need from it, including character sheets, discipline powers, clans/bloodlines, character creation rules, the whole shebang.

Do keep in mind that what I talked about is only *barely* mentioned in the book in part of the Salubri section... Only two pages, if I recall.

Here's the full write-up.

>In nights to come, the Shepherds see blades in the night. The coming pogroms are tacitly endorsed by clans judging themselves above Salubri arrogance. In Acre in 1291 in the long moonlit shadows cast by shattered siege engines, the Healers say that vengeance is not Saulot’s way. Warriors disagree, wasting their strength in the nights that follow — fighting the Northern Crusades or private wars against Setites and Baali. Others attack the Tremere anyway and meet Final Death doing it. The few European Watchers do nothing to aid their fellows, and the others are insulated by the Silk Road and their alliance with the Anda. With the majority of their caste east of the Xi River, they are confident that millennia of practice evading the Wan Kuei will hide them from usurper wizards (and they will be right). The Wu Zao call their Healers Scholars and their Warriors Thieves; the fragment of the clan survives into modern nights led by a revealed Watcher Caste, checking the power of the dharmic dead. The only other vestiges are a few Healers in the Inconnu and a corrupt Warrior Caste resurrected within the Sabbat. Ironically, this is but a mere shadow of what might have been.

>The caste schism wounds the clan, but Salubri are gifted healers if nothing else. If the Watchers could be convinced to lend their talents to the clan’s difficulties, bringing the two fractured bloodlines together into a clan once more, they have a chance. Were the clan to undergo reunification, the Healers would not be alone when the Usurpers find them in city after city. By proving their right to exist, they earn the attitude of superiority they evinced during the Long Night. Blood would still be shed in sacrifice, but the tragedy’s tone will be one of defiance, not acquiescence.

>>46656550
>A reunified Clan Salubri will even be able to survive Acre’s fall in 1291. In the normal course of events, this is the end of the clan’s power, but the Tremere War means all things are possible. Warriors stalk voivode demesnes, putting aside ancient enmities and Kupala’s taint to fight a common foe.

>>46656570
The worst ravages of the Inquisition never come to pass. Salubri perform their storied role as arbiters of Caine, lawgivers working in tandem with Assamite judgment. Vampiric excesses never inspire the mortals to bring torches to havens. The Anarch Revolt still occurs, but the end of neonate frustration comes not at the behest of the Tal’Mahe’Ra, but the whispers of the Healers. With the Usurpers hiding under Hardestadt’s cloak, the Salubri swear they will have nothing to do with the idea of Camarilla, joining their noble brethren to form the Sabbat. Salubri love Noddist lore, and share the freedom and pain of a forsaken progenitor. Freed from Saulot’s edicts and vision, they fully redefine themselves as monsters, and the clan’s striving towards symbiosis bends irrevocably towards efficient parasitism. Joining forces with the Lost Tribe, the Warriors dominate the Black Hand, serving as the sect’s martial backbone and ruling supreme in ways of war. Clan Malkavian, seeing Hardestadt’s dream left behind, flocks to the inverted ankh’s banner. Yet the Salubri still focus on humanity, on keeping ties with kine and maintaining Road and Path. Ultimately, this focus leads to a far calmer, more philosophical Sabbat. The Sword of Caine still craves war against the Antediluvians, preparing for Gehenna while gathering Noddist lore, but mass Embraces are nonexistent and the latent infernalism that periodically reinfects the sect is cleansed with fire. Salubri work ever to ensure the dominance of the Sabbat over the Camarilla by manipulating kine and managing rivalries between Lasombra, Tzimisce, and antitribu. The combination of Healer priest and Warrior ductus becomes a common sight in modern nights. By the turn of the millennium, the Camarilla is relegated to a few European cities and the American South. Across the globe, the three free clans await the Red Star, licking their fangs.

>>46655726
This guy's flow is awful.

>>46648574
I set Geist in my home city, and the other lines in other cities; so we went all across Australia

>>46656646
>Australian Underworld

Jesus christ how horrifying.

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>>46642709
But does Caine take responsibility for the children?

>>46656771
it was mainly builts around environments that tried to get you to stay or get stuck there long enough to be absorbed into the structure of the underworld, which craves the death energy of the geists

>>46657105
...Isn't CainexLilith technically Lilith fucking her stepson?

>>46656601
Raw as fuck.
This sounds monumentally more interesting to me.

>>46642940
Don't forget the clone child body that Saulot inhabits.

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>>46648574
>>46655204
Our Storyteller runs our chronicle in one of the biggest cities in the State, which one of the players is from, and the rest are familiar with, and he mandated playing as Embraced versions of ourselves, albeit with a modified history that made sure we weren't all acquainted anymore.

>>46655528
But Anarchs are just nihilistic dummies obsessed with cannibalizing their vampire grandparents and ignoring common decency.

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>>46656601
>and the American South.

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>>46657245
And?

>>46657823
Why the hell did he mandate that, that's weird

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where do i start reading to learn how to ST DA:V? Core Rulebook (Revised) seems like a pretty good start...

then branching out into clan books, roads and then something like fae or mage?

forgive a clueless noob asking to be spoonfed. it'd be my first time DMing anything and i'm the only one who has even a rudimentary understanding of the game, background or lore. i understand i'm in for days of reading and comprehension for my expectations to come to fruition, but let's make this a theoretical for now

it sounds like playing would be an incredibly fun experience; is a coterie of 2 a bit too personal or do you think it'd suit such an inexperienced ST?

i know i should just figure out the system and just fucking give it a go but i don't want to expose my players to some incredibly amateur roleplay and embarrass myself

noob out, hopefully i wont delete this before someone responds like usual

ps post more vampire art

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>>46658151
His Storyteller did the same thing to him twenty years ago. Legacy, son.

>>46658333
that raises more questions, anon

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>>46658238
>is a coterie of 2 a bit too personal or do you think it'd suit such an inexperienced ST?

They could be Knight Bros

>>46658238
Grab V20 Dark Ages. It's better, overall, if only because it's metaplot agnostic.

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>>46658352
In what sense? The biggest downside was being limited at character creation to abilities and virtues (and dot counts thereof) that our human selves actually possessed, and THEN buying up with Freebies and shit. Nowadays we're sitting pretty on a stack of hard-earned experience points, but early on it was pretty rough in the ability department. Though we had normal starting disciplines, which was pretty rad.

>>46658489
In the sense of 'why did his ST do it, then' and 'who thought this was a good idea'

>>46658512
Why did he do it? No idea, never met the guy.
I think it made the newer players more open to the idea of playing, since they wouldn't have to invent a person from scratch (plus it makes filling all those experiential gaps much easier, because you remember what your fifteenth birthday or breakfast last week or your first funeral or your favorite jobs were like.)

>>46658606
That'll make for some fucking terrible RP and character creation habits.

Never make just yourself as an X. That's 15 year old fanfiction shit.

If it's babby's first PnP then at least tell them to rip off of an existing fictional character if they HAVE to, but don't encourage them to just make themselves.

>>46658706
>That'll make for some fucking terrible RP

Out of curiosity, how's that? I mean, yeah, an incompetent buffoon will badly imitate themselves, but they'd do whatever they were going to do badly anyway, right?

But you are right; it's a super problematic idea, and is absolute hell on the coherency of the setting. For some ill-defined reason, we had thirteen Fledglings embraced in the same damn season of the same year in the same part of the State.

>>46658796
>Out of curiosity, how's that?

if you are roleplaying yourself you are not actually roleplaying, and at best you are roleplaying a weird caricature of yourself. I cannot see that ending well in any way. Either people can't take it seriously because they're all giggling to each other like "lol steve there's no way you'd actually just drink someone's blood in the club and wear leather pants" or they're being way too earnest about their own IRL flaws & hang-ups and getting into territory no one is comfortable with.
Fiction provides us distance to explore these uncomfortable aspects of ourselves through characters alike but unlike us in ways that can be entertaining, enlightening or fun because our own selves & egos are not being examined under a microscope.
If you make someone play their literal selves you remove that distance and force people into more-or-less standing naked on stage at the high school play. Not good for anyone!

>>46658706
>If it's babby's first PnP then at least tell them to rip off of an existing fictional character if they HAVE to

Yeah, but then you get fifty Alucards and Lestats

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>>46658907
That's some sound rationale.
And I can definitely feel some of that microscope examination you mention. It helps that I've introduced the thoughts, souls, or thaumaturgically programmed knowledge of five different people into my character's thoughtbox at this point (plus he's blood bound as fuck.)

Those things plus delicious Pyramid indoctrination helped divorce the character from myself, because he's just super fucked up at this point.

>>46658985
The keyword is HAVE to.
And if they go for the ultimate Mary-Sue characters as the source of their expy, kick them out asap, because they're going to spend the whole game trying to play Alucard or Lestat as they interpret them instead of actually participating in the story at all.

>>46658907
Oh & additionally: a few of the people i have gamed with have had serious problems not taking in-game or in-character events personally, which can lead to group-breaking arguments & tension that is totally NOT the kind of atmosphere you want to encourage or have at a table and making someone literally play themselves will do nothing to alleviate that.
People get pissy over "I disagree with your suggestion, Trogdar the Dragonborn Ranger," I can't imagine how mad they would get over "I disagree with you, Kevin the Guy Who Works At Costco."

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>>46659076
>>46658985
I find it really helps if you respect their image for a character and have the world treat them in a way that contextualized a character. Give them challenges that make sense for the character and encourage them to think of how their character might solve a problem.

By the same token, I've found that it really helps new players and ST's to deliberately challenge characters. otherwise it's far too easy for things to devolve into the challenge of the night being 'how to drive across town' or 'what to eat' or other things that, while interesting, don't really make for a good story.

>>46659252
>I find it really helps if you respect their image for a character and have the world treat them in a way that contextualized a character.

A good way to do this is to foist interpersonal relationships on them. This works better for CofD games which tend to be more down-to-Earth. Like if I have a character who's not interacting with the rest of the party or the world, really, I like to turn to 'em and ask either before, during or after a session something to the effect of "Do you have any siblings? Has someone you known called you recently? Or wondered what you're doing?" etc. etc. and sometimes it can lead to humanizing subplots that'll get the player a little more invested.

>>46659252
>>46659076
Valid advice, but what I meant by that was I've witnessed people straight up make a character from Fate before and then spend the entire game trying to act exactly like that character to the exclusion of otherwise interesting plot events.

If they don't do that, that's great, but it's annoying as fuck when you have to tell the Shirou(or whatever) expy to stop trying to bone the expy have gave the ST for his lunar mate that's modeled after Shirou's sister/girlfriend/whatever for 5 minutes so the group can actually accomplish something.

I don't know shit about Fate otherwise I'd give the actual names of the characters he tried to copy-paste into the game.

>>46659491
I'm actually having this issue with the players in my group, honestly. The two I have left who have actually played at all(recruited a third to replace the guy who dropped out after last session, he's still making his dude but so far he seems like he'll be way less problematic) both have loner-types that decided to say they don't know anybody in the city for two different reasons.
One of them's a hitman and told me he wanted to focus on having his character have to build up a life after his Fall instead of having it all already set up for him, the other wanted is character to be from out-of-town, but she's currently staying with her baby-daddy so I might be able to work something out of that, at least.

I'm honestly considering throwing everything I can at the hitman in order to force him to make a soul pact with someone and then destroy the hitman Cover, because it's hard to humanize a guy that's being played as an anti-social robot.
I am actually throwing something at him next session, either way, because he's got the Hunted condition and it's about time he face some consequences for being a loner.

>>46659616
Have the hitman cover get blown in a way that makes sense - he fucks up on a hit, holes start being blown on it anyway as cops start poking around, angels closing in - he's gotta blow it or build a new cover from scratch and fast

>>46658151
A lot of books recommend playing as "yourself, but now a [vampire/werewolf/mage/etc]", for some reason.

>>46659616
Honestly I'd just throw NPCs at them, their landlady or a neighborhood kid that bothers them. Also some plot-important people! Get them running in the greater supernatural society, different rings & different agencies, angelic or exile information brokers, the friendly local vampire. Some of them, if they're vibrant enough, may end up becoming friendly with these PCs despite their best efforts to be "stoic badasses with no connections to other people." Explore his backstory, see if you can get anything out of that. What made him Fall? Was it a person? Was he working with another angel? Is that angel still in service to the Machine or has it fallen since then too?
I find getting a bit of one-on-one OOC chat with problem players about their characters can get them to give STs a little more to work with.

>>46660042
And that's fucked, especially in Vampire, because right away you're personally asking people what about them would make them worth the risk and effort to an established vampire to try preserving and owning forever.

>>46660001
If he doesn't go back to his apartment in the next session, he's getting another Compromise roll; we decided that since he basically never left his apartment before his Fall, except for when he had a hit, then not picking up the dead drop he gets his info at after getting a voice mail would be a Compromise for him. He hasn't been home since his Fall, and he has a dead drop with info on his next hit waiting for him to pick it up; odds are, the next session will cover enough time for his contact to swing by and realize he hasn't picked it up, yet.

>>46660075
As I said, he hasn't gone home since his Fall, and he's been staying at a cheap motel. I almost had a powerful Angel stop by to ask him some questions regarding his last hit/mission(he killed a guy, then got orders to kill himself, but refused), but I changed my mind to what's going to be the start of the next session(the group is having their first official meeting, and to Rank 2 Angels are going to attack them after they've talked for a few minutes, meaning a likely Compromise for the other two if they try to help him, too, and I'm planning to drag the new guy's character into it by having his motorcycle die as he drives by where their meeting is, since one of the Angels has that numina that kills all power in a big area.

The other one, though, I'm thinking I'll probably have her baby-daddy force her to come with him to the hospital to get an ultrasound, and give a scene to that. That, or have him sit her down to further discuss her delusions of being a "demon"

>>46660706
How are you going to get the new guy to work with them? If I was a passing by demon and angels were there, I'd fuck off.

>>46659502
You could describe them. Or even just tell us the name of their character, it may even be the same.

The trick to making a good character, especially when starting out, is to make an Expy. "Write that character you love as if they belonged in this setting, and you were worried about getting sued". Then they create a character based around a character they like, but in doing so make it their own. Hell, a lot of my character concepts come from browsing Gelbooru or playing a video game and being like... "I'm going to make a character based on this character". I want to make a Lucifuge inspired by Dante from DmC: Devil May Cry, or at least the cocky art.

>>46659616
The Hitman is a Cover with it's own cover. He has to maintain that hitman's actual non-hitman life

>>46660363
... Really, that's your first concern?

>>46660870
I know he was based on the main guy from the Fate games, red-headed dude who's future self is Archer or w/e, focused around both swords and bows, and his dude's Lunar mate(it was a 2e Exalted game) was named Star or something like that; all I remember is that she was adopted by his dad and they grew up together, and I think she had silver hair?

>>46660870
>The Hitman is a Cover with it's own cover. He has to maintain that hitman's actual non-hitman life
The thing is, he doesn't even have a non-hitman life. He decided his dude literally sat in his apartment all day, waiting for the voice mail that told him he had a new dead drop to pick up. Since he hasn't gone home, the only thing I can do is throw NPCs at him or say he missed a dead drop.

>>46661124
You can rip off worse from Fate than Emiya. Though a high schooler with magic is terrible for Exalted. The Lunar Mate doesn't sound related at all.

And the Hitman... has no Cover, then. He needs to maintain a normal human life. A character with no ties to anything isn't a Cover. It's too obvious, and the Angels can find him because he has no relationships. He hasn't built up the Infrastructure needed to be a seven dot Cover.

>>46661369
>The Lunar Mate doesn't sound related at all.
I googled it. She was based on Illya.

The hitman does, technically, have a Cover, though; it's just a very flimsy one. He's known to a small handful of people, those being his neighbors, his contact, and a gun dealer he took Allies for(despite me telling him a few times that Allies doesn't really work for a single guy you buy guns from occasionally)
He just hasn't done anything at all in regards to any of them since he joined the game; granted, he's spent most of that time trying to find the rest of the group, and that's only been 3 sessions so far.

>>46660769
Honestly, I'm kind of hoping the gunfire directed at anybody in the area and the manifested Angel will at least lead him to look into them; from an out-of-character standpoint, I've given up on trying to make sensible reasons for this group to work together, and I'm just hoping he'll take the string I'm giving him since it gets him into contact with the rest of the group immediately instead of making him spend 3-4 sessions looking for them like I did with the other 2 players.

>>46661124
>He decided his dude literally sat in his apartment all day.

A). This doesn't make sense logically. The hitman would still be taking out the trash, or getting groceries/ordering pizzas/ gettingshouted at by neighbors & landlord for weird smells. He's never had to buy a gun? Never had to make professional contacts in the criminal underworld? Do legwork for an assignment? Launder his illegally-obtained money? Ward off police investigators? Never had to do ANYTHING but sit there and wait, like a wind-up murder toy?

B). As >>46661369 said it doesn't work in-setting. Demonic cover is the sum total of a demon's verifiable connections to mundane, physical reality.

C). Above all else, HOW FUCKING BORING! I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt but anon, it is your job as ST to get this character motivated. He sounds like the sort of player that, in a D&D game, picks fighter and sits at the table in stony silence until the chance to kill something turns up. In-character shenanigans can help but you need to have a frank discussion with him about how he isn't going to have any fun with this character, playing it like he is.

I personally feel that if I were a Mage with access to Mind I would be incredibly paranoid and intrusive. I don't trust myself with powers to just take information without consent or learn secrets or worse.

Does that make me a bad mage?

>>46661748
No, it makes you a Guardian of the Veil! Welcome aboard, hope you're ready to kill everyone in your cabal for being soulstealing fuckwits who wouldn't know Wisdom if it slapped them across the face with an abyssal tentacle.

>>46661860
A Mastigos that doesn't like Mind seems so lackluster

>>46661736
>you need to have a frank discussion with him about how he isn't going to have any fun with this character, playing it like he is.
I did. He told me, straight-up, that he wanted his character to start off with as few connections as he could, and play up him having to build connections.

>>46660363

Can be anything. My favorite motive for making a fledgling is a shy, technophobic elder who can't drive and has horrendously out of date lingo needing someone who can drive them around, help them figure out newfangled contraptions, etcetera.

>>46661934
Again, I note, he's spent most of the game so far trying to find the rest of the group; now that he's found them, presumably, he'll actually engage in trying to build up some connections with people. Otherwise he's definitely getting another Compromise roll.

>>46661898
Well 80% of all Moros PCs I've ever seen hate Death, so

>>46661680
>She was based on Illya.
Oh. So he's got bad taste in waifus as well.

Also, Covers are built from relationships. That Cover doesn't really have any strong defining relationships other than being a hitman and having neighbors. He stays inside all day, does nothing. That's not really a strong Cover.
I was giving you STing advice, if I was being a bit too vague on it. Have him strengthen the Cover through action, or better yet, have him fill you in on the cover. Flesh it out with him so that it's not just a guy who sits around doing nothing. The Cover needs to be it's own character in many ways. Because if it isn't, the Angels will notice.

Also, another bit of advice: Make sure the characters know each other ahead of time, or at least that the inciting incident of the plot will get them together and make them stay together and trust each other. That's the hardest part of any game.


>>46661934
Well, he still needs to be making them, and apparently he isn't. Beyond that, he has seven dots of Cover. His cover should be worth seven dots. >>46661736 lists off a bunch of good suggestions for aspects of a LIFE that a hitman would reasonably have. He's got contacts, he's got old bosses from his time in the mafia. He's got people who know him from when he was a cop or a PI or that weirdo at the gun range.

>>46662107
That's because mechanically Death is very boring unless you're a dork like me who loves talking to ghosts.

>>46661898
>>46661748
Mastigos are all about "Holy shit this is super immoral and unethical". They're a Catholic Jew, in terms of self-doubt and guilt. Also, >>46661860 has no idea how the Guardians work. They love Mind because they can invade people's thoughts and literally be the Thought Police (though, again, they don't just go around invading your mind for no reason). And they definitely don't harm their Cabalmates. If you're a Guardian and your Cabal wants to bring down the fucking Abyss, you grit your teeth and follow them to Hell. They don't betray their Cabal because that is literally the one thing that they can be trusted not to do.
Of course, they tend not to be part of a Cabal they can't trust.

I actually did play a Mastigos with only a dot of Mind. He was a Guardian who had several Masques and had originally been a Ventrue's loverboy. He doubted most everything, and was a bit schizophrenic.

Like, literally. He was afraid that his every thought was a lie and second guessed everything. He was training to be an Interfector, and slipped into Masques to avoid being himself.

And then the shitty chat I joined said "oh, last week all Supernal magic stopped working due to a major plot, and it literally just came back".
How the fuck am I supposed to work with that?

>>46662449
>That's because mechanically Death is very boring unless you're a dork like me who loves talking to ghosts.
It was more of people seeing it as the "evil murderous Necromancer" Arcanum. So, so many Matter-focused "We're not ALL callous necromancers with no regard for humanity!" Moros.

>>46662492
>And then the shitty chat I joined said "oh, last week all Supernal magic stopped working due to a major plot, and it literally just came back".
>How the fuck am I supposed to work with that?

DUDEWAITWHAT!?

>>46662449
>Also, another bit of advice: Make sure the characters know each other ahead of time, or at least that the inciting incident of the plot will get them together and make them stay together and trust each other. That's the hardest part of any game.
I tried to, with this game, honestly. I was going to start it with the whole group meeting for the first time in-person, after realizing they were all summoned in the same Facility. But then 1 of the 3 I had at the time had to temporarily put a hold on making his character, and we started without him, then a 4th guy joined in the second session(the vagrant living with her baby-daddy), then the original 3rd finished his guy in time for the third session(the hitman), then one of the original 2 dropped out because he had to free up his days after the 4th session, then after 5th session the last of the original 2 said more or less the same thing.

So, now, I'm left with 2 people who have barely any information on the inciting incident for the game, and a third guy with whom I'm basically saying fuck it and having him not be from that Facility, because it doesn't make sense at this point for another Demon to have come from that Facility.

I'll have a talk with the hitman's player, and see what I can work out with him.

>>46662492
That's a good example of needing to know a setting before you start planning things. An ST might throw you a huge curve ball.. Or just a shitty one, like that.

>>46655726
Flegh, this is perfect for a Slasher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pRROs8oerU

>>46662596
Very little of it is actually "evil". I used Death because my character was a detective, and because Pushing Daisies was a great show.

>>46662598
>>46662937
Exactly. Chat games/MUSHes where anyone can join are THE worst place to do big world changing events like that.
I basically emoted being confused and uncertain now that the magic was back, then never came back. I couldn't deal with such a massive wrench being thrown in my character concept before I even got to play him regularly.

>>46662674
That's why you start out with "how do you know two of the other players".

>>46662674
If you lost almost all of your original players I'd suggest just starting over, and maybe letting them keep the XP they've earned to start as slightly-more-experienced demons.

In Demon: the Fallen, did they ever get to improvise Lores? Or was it all "hey, here's what you get, here are some rituals and a few ideas on how to make your own, go nuts"?
>>46663262
Slasher music - and Slasher is Fallout 4. The same 5-6 songs over and over again. Extreme slaughter with no consequences beyond the immediate as long as you're careful.

So, I was thinking.

Thinking about Deviant.

How one possible way to play it might be a little bit more like a properly protagonist version of Slasher. Which is to say that your average Deviant probably wouldn't need or care to team up. I don't expect there to be that much focus on the Y axis of the splat. Societies of one-off experiments seem kind of goofy.

However if you do give a group of Deviants cause to band together, you probably deserve the hassle you're going to get.

>>46663722
Deviant is supposed to be low powered. We don't know enough about it yet. Only 'deviant, body horror, low powered'. Don't even know it's Noun: The verbening.

How low powered we don't know. How high pwoered they can get, we don't know. They might end up like the Purified with a nice low ceiling, or they might be like Demons - end up as a quantum consciousness structure that can exist outside reality. They might be like mages.

>>46663901
>They might be like mages
>might

Get real, Dave only has one setting - broken and running roughshod over the rest of the fluff

>>46663944
I meant in terms of power vs everything else and flexibility, not approaching mages. We all know that is never going to happen.

Also, I got my bingo for the thread, so that's cool.

>>46663901
We do know they're only slightly above Hunters at their lowest power, but I don't think Dave's given a ceiling for us, beyond that higher power means a more threatening antagonist.

>>46663944
>Get real, Dave only has one setting - broken and running roughshod over the rest of the fluff

Sigh...

Dave is Mage developer, and he does what's good for Mage within its own setting, themes and rules. He, like all other developers, care not at all about mythical "game balance" among the various gamelines.

Nevertheless, anyone who's bothered to actually read and play Mage, both all of 1e (and Dave was only one of the authors on the last few books) or the 2e spoilers, knows that expressing such "mage supremacy" nonsense displays nothing but juvenile fantasy-based ignorance.

>>46663901
I wasn't talking about the power level. I was talking about the viability of Y splats. What sort of society or groups could Deviants theoretically form?

Base speculation is fun.

>>46664198
Speculation is fun when you have any information. we have exactly enough information so far that we could well end up claiming it was a baser promethean.
>>46664112
Holy shit, did you get that sense of self righteous high school grade 'condescending intellectual' module surgically installed or does that come stock? Because everything you write sounds like someone who's so desperate to convince someone else that they're superior to them because of their big, meaty brain.

>>46664198
Decent Y-splats is what is most important to me.

Actual societies for them to work in. The Agendas or the Guilds aren't good enough. Krewes, I suppose, could be good. If there were any bloody examples.

>>46664238

Nice distraction. However, you've basically confirmed that you're just another "mage supremacy" ignoramus who bases his opinions on hearsay and fevered imagination, rather than actually reading and playing Mage.

Hopefully, once Mage 2e is released, you'll have the courtesy of reading the book and engaging in discussions concerning its genuine rules and setting within the context of real role-playing. I am not optimistic.

OH MY GOD! Mages are really powerful!

>>46664365
Hopefully you'll eventually stop trying to virtue signal on the internet, or think that the way you say anything will get your shitty opinions any traction.

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>>46664365

>>46664411
>your shitty opinions any traction

Ha. My "shitty opinion" is that people should actually read and play TTRPG's before pontificating about them. If you're primarily relying upon rumor or anonymous opinions on places like 4chan, or basing opinions on "white room" powergame scenarios that don't reflect actual play as designed and intended, you are indeed both a fool and an ass.

However, feel free to continue as before. Just remember the old proverb, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

>>46664491
Oh my god. I get it now. You're Jim Profitt. Straight out of his playbook. You trolled me.

Mage Supremacy is a thing of the past: With the removal of Extended Action spell casts, they are brought to the level of everyone else.

>>46664680
>implying there won't be a replacement

Mr Brookshaw doesn't allow his children to mingle with the peasantry

>>46664702
There probably won't. Because besides being broken, it's also terribly unfun.
It turns Mage into a game of "who can spend the longest time doing rituals?"

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I've got a question for WoD (V20) players/DMs.

I'm running a story where a pack of Anarchs are going to find out they're being hunted across California by a crazy vampire hunter. The hunter is inexperienced, but he knows that fire hurts the undead, so he uses a pair of sawn-off shotguns filled with Dragon's Breath rounds.

My question is, what kind of damage would you consider appropriate for such a weapon, and how far would the range be? Pic sort of related, it's the pair of shotguns I imagine the crazy hunter would use.

Someone knows where to find good Hunter homebrews?

>>46667079
Some conspiracies for you.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/864494-silentium-general-project-o-x-o

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-theo-vigil/859835-mourningstar-developments-hellbinders-project-o-x-i

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/849493-sabaoth-tourchbearers-project-o-x-ii

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/852378-a-s-t-r-a-l-witchfinders-project-o-x-iii

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/844796-the-nightmare-network-mythbreakers-project-o-x-iv

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/853170-scharlach-spinnwebe-nightstalkers-project-o-x-v

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/862223-eye-of-heavens-tombraiders-project-x-o-vi

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/845188-church-of-the-blood-moon-spiritslayers-project-o-x-vii

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/844151-chasseurs-de-tetes-dreamcatchers-project-o-x-viii

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/848708-pomegranate-deme-graverobbers-project-o-x-ix

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/855254-bone-collectors-renegadechasers-project-o-x-x

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/864775-heirs-of-the-lie-also-known-as-project-o-x-sum-up-post

>>46667684
Thanks, I'll check them out.

Damn it, so close to The Pack's release now that I've ended up dreaming that it has gone out, only to be disappointed when I wake up and find out it's still not out.

>>46668288
Yeah. The subconscious can be an ass sometimes.

>>46668288
"accidentally" link it here, we won't tell

>>46668382
I don't think he has it. Being just a writer. :/

Chris! You should become a developer, and "accidentally" leak stuff to us!

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>Played Wraith for the first time last weekend
>Am really, really excited about Wraith

>Does anyone know good Wraith stories?

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>>46668757
>Wraith

>>46664756

But how else can I get my 600 success spell rolls?

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>>46668943

>>46666033
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere about a Kindred who uses Dragon's Breath rounds. I wanna say he was a Brujah, I'll see if I can find a book on my shelf with him.

Personally I wouldn't make the rounds too powerful. IRL they're more flash than substance, and videos where people use them to light things on fire soak said things in gasoline before hand.

Maybe halve the damage from 8 dice to 4 (to represent the low quality of ammo), but make the dice aggravated. Definitely don't make them burn over multiple rounds, because of what I said earlier about the rounds and also because then you're nasically making an easier version of Lure of Flames.

The real advantage of such a gun should be causing Rotschrek. Maybe give a higher difficulty to resisting Rotschrek (7 or 8 maybe?) Because of how terrifying getting shot with that would be.

>>46669059
Just roll once and and the spell is cast

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>>46669410
>>46666033
Update: I looked through the ammo section of the Second Edition Player's Guide and found an Incendiary section that explicitly mentions Dragon's Breath. Says to give it two aggravated damage. I'd suggest using that, most little info like this is compatible across editions.

>>46657855
Agree 99% with you ma-man.

Though Requiem, when considering its fanbase, falls to Bad Tier.

Mage, when ignoring its fan base, rises to Alright Tier, but when adding the Awakening bunch to the equation, falls into Kill Yourself My Man Tier.

>>46657855
>But... but... What about my Princess and my >Deviant becoming official splats petitions?

>>46666033
>>46669410
>>46669718
What about the Napalm rounds that guy from /k/ made?

>>46670075
People who play fansplats are in bad need of a lobotomy. For their (and our) sake.

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>>46657855
oh my god did he died?

>>46657855
why is the furry game at the highest tier?

>>46670055
What's with Requiem's fanbase?

>>46670075
Deviant is an official splat...

>>46670100
People who flip out about other people playing fansplats are in bad need of a lobotomy.
Oh, hey, I think that post counts as "complaining about games you've never read".

>>46670456
Stop playing bingo with our feelings

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>>46670545

>>46670584
Free space needs something in it.

Also fuck you, I like Beast

>>46670545
Don't get me wrong, the BINGO is dumb, the choices are bad, and >>46670584 clearly doesn't know how BINGO works.

But I couldn't resist making that reference.

>>46670456

Some fansplats are OK but not as good as published material somehow (usually this is due to excess cruft), and a lot more of them are either too niche, a reaction to some part of the setting they don't like, or a horrifically bad idea (i.e. Wastelands of Desolation).

>>46670937
I think that Princess (not all fansplats) is decent and well done, and at least on par with some of the stuff that's been done officially. It's not like Genius where it was made in response to "give me more of that old thing", and it's not so ludicrously broken that people know it's broken before knowing how. It even fits the tone more than things like Genius, even though it wouldn't seem like it at first.

The place of joy and light is corrupt and broken, and the last bastion of beauty and hope has become a broken, depressed place filled with salty rain and willing to destroy the rest of the world to save itself. You play as someone who has a physical reaction to negative emotions, and the world is filled with them, but that pain and suffering can corrupt you.

On top of that, unlike every other fansplat besides Genius, it's actually complete and playable and that's pretty amazing in and of itself. I mean, just from skimming through it thinking about running a game, it's more narratively and mechanically consistent than the 1e versions of Geist, Changeling, and Promethean, and got more player direction than Beast or Geist.

I don't know if I'd ever PLAY Princess, but I hate seeing it lumped in with Leviathan and all the half finished "we'll do awesome shit" fansplats that aren't even finished or thought out. And honestly, I think Genius is dumb at every level, and I don't even care if people play Genius, except when they're trying to do it in a mixed game.

>>46672205

Princess is a game that's decent enough but would be better off totally broken away from the CofD's trappings. That it has two versions in various states of completeness doesn't help either.

>>46672242
Janitors are oppressing us!

>>46672464
What was the post?

>>46672488
Beast support

>>46672464
>>46672488
Something along the lines of
>>>46657855
>>Beast
>You have shit taste, bruh

I'm guessing he realized the guy was calling Beast shit and he's an idiot, so he deleted the post

>>46672524
It was, since it's still on my screen

>Beast
You have bad tastes anon

>>46672544
>>>46672242
Beast is only good if you can give some indication of how their actions look to people who aren't Beasts/actually have a moral compass. Case in point this guy, who is clearly a Makara Tyrant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXpRFLzOVPw

>>46670077
Err, probably like 8 aggrated, difficulty 9 or even 10 to fire?
I wouldn't recommend its use.

>>46672329
I don't know about the other one, I'm mostly talking about the Dream version, I don't even know what the difference is with the Vocation version.

I will agree that Princess can work without the main CofD setting, but at the same time I feel like they did a good job of making it fit. I thought it was just going to be a silly thing that didn't fit (like Genius), but it did a good job at making it feel like it would fit in the world. It also isn't actually all that tied to CofD, besides the mechanics and potential to crossover.

>>46670937
Whats Wastelands of Desolation?

I've been playing videogames all week, is mage 2e out?

>>46673758
As of Monday they were implementing final corrections, after which it gets sent off to Paradox White Wolf for final approval.

After THAT we get the advance pdf, where we buy it early and then pick through it for things like spelling and formatting errors.

>>46669410
>>46669718
That's perfect. Thanks, Anon!

>>46673779

It's been sent off to White Wolf since then.

>>46674542

Great news!

Dracula will hopefully expedite reading and final approval of the book over his Scandinavian LARP adventures.

Of course, you can provide some new Signs of Sorcery spoilers to ease the anxiety and impatience of Mage fans during the final days or weeks before the book's release...

>>46674542

Hey, great job, man. Thumbs up on enduring this long.

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>>46674542
Oh fuck.

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>>46674848

If the books doesn't live up to the hype.

>>46674542
Thanks for the update, Dave!

>>46674542
How long do you think the approval will take

>>46674669
According to white wolf's website we're currently in a lull between LARPs and conventions, so hopefully he can put his stamp on it quickly.

>>46675092
For what it's worth, Dark Eras seemed to be somewhere between one and two weeks with WWP. It shows up under approvals on March 14 and 21, then went out relatively soon after the latter.

>>46675092
A week or two, usually, I think?

>>46674542
So when do you finally get paid?

>>46675146

If Drac's not LARPing, he preparing for the next LARP.

>>46675265
>So when does Dave finally get paid?

I believe developers get paid when the book becomes available for sale. I think Dave mentioned that authors receive part of their compensation upon completion of their respective sections.

>>46675824
>I believe developers get paid when the book becomes available for sale.
Is that the advanced pdf or the final PoD?

>>46675948

My guess would be the advance PDF since it's still for sale to the general public. If OP/WW is earning money, so should the developer.

>>46673666
... oh god are you referencing Vampire: Undeath and Mykal 'I'm not ripping off White Wolf, seriously, gais!' Lakim? HAHAHAHAHAHAH GOD THOSE WERE THE MEMORIES.

>>46674542
Tell us when you get paid.

Are the 20th anniversary editions in the pastebin?

>>46676703
>20th anniversary editions

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lfa6qw2ocfd2y/Roleplaying#mt9aacn2r93i2

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New Thread
>>46678092
>>46678092
>>46678092

>>46660363
Just make them Anarchs. Filthy Anarchs don't care about anything, so they'll embrace anyone like rotten sluts.

>>46661942
>qt Tzimisce Voivode babe needs your help to figure out this smartphone business

Fund it

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>>46678292

I want this