Was Batman the That Guy of his group?

>>46520169
yes

Partly, at least. Claiming to be the "ultimate detective" and having martial arts skills that are questionable at times are both debatable signs. The most poignant sign is that he develops comprehensive contingency plans to take out every single other member of the party; whenever they ask, all he says is "Just in case."

>>46520169
No, he was the min maxer

>>46520169
obviously

>ok but i have a special rare magical gem that can kill superman so... :)

>>46520234
Dude, everyone has a kryptonite reserve by now.

It depends on how he's written. Sometimes he's a fun NPC that pops in and out and all the players love him. Sometimes he's the GM's special snowflake that the players are merely there to observe. Sometimes he's played by a person who knows how to make a (supposedly) loner character fun for everyone. Sometimes he's that guy.

>>46520234
That's Superman's bad at this point
>so optimized that the GM literally has to invent a substance to give you a weakness

>>46520241
That's just the DM being fair, you can't make your only weakness be an obscure mineral and expect the DM to follow suit.

>>46520169
>Can singlehandedly take any other member of the group, and will do ti whenever he feels like it
>Lonewolf that won't be bossed around
>...but bosses around everybody else
>Has a plan for absolutely everything about to happen
>Will always have a thingamaging appropiate for the occasion
>Never fails his rolls

I think he's the DMPC.

>>46520195
>the heart armlet
>dat face

Diana is cute. CUTE!

>refuses to have superpowers in a superpowers game
>also arbitrarily restricts himself on what equipment he'll use, refusing to use guns in favor of ninja-like weapons
>won't just cooperate with the party without a monologue about what a badass loner he is

Batman's character sheet is covered in grubby Dorito fingerprints.

>>46520217
I think the "just in case" is perfectly excusable if the players know about it and aren't going to make it a game-breaking issue for the characters. Like playing a "loner" character, but letting the other players know that you really do want the character included.

>>46520169
>Parents killed for no reason
>Becomes a ninja to avenge them
>Thinks the darkness are his ally

Meanwhile you have good ol' Clark Kent, who was rised in Kansas, has a lovely family and wears bright colors, as you are supossed to do in a heroes game.

>>46520294
>refuses to have superpowers in a superpowers game
That's not really something you can hold up as a negative anymore. There are plenty of nonpowered heroes who can hang with the big boys (so-called "badass normals") nowadays. Consider that in most instances, Batman is at least the de facto skillmonkey of his team.
>also arbitrarily restricts himself on what equipment he'll use, refusing to use guns in favor of ninja-like weapons
Guns are a make-or-break tool for many characters, given their lethal potential against normal people.

>>46520364
Clark also had his parents killed for no reason.

Batman is either a fun PC who beats up bad guys and makes terrible puns (early Batman) or he's the GM's special snowflake DMPC who spends most of his time brooding and angsting while perched on a gargoyle, and could literally kill all the actual PC's because "I'm Batman!"

>>46520364
>Only survivor of what amounts to genocide
But they're aliens, so it doesn't count.

>>46520377
Only in campaigns DMed by faggots with paladinfallitis

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>>46520364
>Thinks the darkness are his ally

Well that's his fault for liking such a flamboyantly gay band

>>46520377
Clark didn't know his parents neither knew he was adopted till adulthood, he also never went "muh parents". For all intents Clark's parents were alive, well, till Pa's heart gave up, but eventually all parents die of old age.

He's still optimistic, hopeful, etc, completely opposed to Batman's angsty edgelord behaviour.

>>46520443
Well when you grow up in literal dark crime city

It depends on who's writing him, but most justice league capes could be considered "that guy" if you're biased against them.

>>46520438
>he doesn't understand parody

>>46520485
Also this. Gotham city is just pure bullshit as background.
>I grew in Gotham City (it comes from Goth, because it's dark) This is like the most dangerous city in america, you cannot step out your house without being robbed or raped and killed. And every cop is a crook. And it's always at night. And there are gargoyles every 10 yards.

>>46520290
This.

>>46520556
Sounds like a common hive city

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>>46520169
>Multi-billionaire dresses up as a bat and uses incredibly gadgets to fight gimmicky gangsters on the streets of not!New York
>He does this by being in peak human condition: ie. as strong, athletic, trained and intelligent as a human being can possibly be
That sounds perfectly reasonable, by comic book standards at least, BUT SUDDENLY

>He becomes friends with fucking aliens and goddesses and supersonic motherfuckers
>He now has to go up against cosmic horrors and wannabe gods and shit
>But it's okay because he always has a plan
>That's somehow better than the plans of everyone else
>Including those whose intelligent is described as "superhuman"

Batman isn't "That Guy", he's a tier 5 character in a tier 1 party, but a totally bro tier 1 party where everyone made a gentleman's agreement not to infringe on his one gimmick even though they could do it much better themselves without any extra effort.

>>46520556
Isn't that only Frank Miller's Gotham City? Don't most incarnations have a police force that, while generally benevolent, is just incompetent?

>>46520217
To be fair, he did it for everyone. Including himself. When you have enemies that can mass mindjack your entire team at will, preparing to defeat every member of your team is just common sense.

>superman
kid who made a guy with a bunch of powers because fun
>diana
girl who made a girl with bunch of powers, because fun
>bats
edgelord that's min-maxed to hell and back and rules lawyer hard.

>>46520630
If Gotham is to be believed, many are outright corrupt.

>>46520630
>is just incompetent?
I wouldn't call them incompetent, it's just that being a policeman in gotham must be fucking hellmode

>>46520737

>Superman
Powergamer

>Wonderwoman
Powergamer

>Batman
Anti-powergamer powergamer

>>46520786
>wonderwoman powergamer
She's just a weaker version of Superman. The lasso doesn't make up for the difference in overall strength.

>>46520808
shouldn't have taken that -4 STR

>>46520737
>[thing I'm neutral/positive towards]: fun
>[thing I don't like]: anti-fun powergaming

>>46520808
>Weaker
Top kek, she's way more powerful than him now, in fact her bracers are to limit herself, she's a Demigoddess now.

>>46520808
The lasso is because her creator was into lesbian bondage with both his wives.

>>46520556
Gotham is an old name for NYC.
http://www.nypl.org/blog/2011/01/25/so-why-do-we-call-it-gotham-anyway

>>46520837
Now I need to make a stealth fetish character.

>>46520839
Yeah I know, but it fits my narrative better this way.

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>>46520808
>The lasso doesn't make up for the difference in overall strength.
It doesn't make up for her mental disorder either.

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The Joker is THAT GUY for the villain campaign.

>>46520169
I thought this thread would be about JLA pen and paper sessions

what would superman play?

>Guys, I'm totally human level because I'm totally human not like you powergamer faggets
>...well, except I'm faster than Flash, but I'm still a powerless humans,
>...well, except I can defeat several full powered kryptonians at the same time just using martial arts even though they survived nukes and shit, but I'm still a powerless human unlike you powergamer faggets
>...well, except I can survive being punched by an agry God through the atmosphere back to eath and hit the ground at several times the speed of sound without nothing more than kevlar as protective gear, but I'm totally a powerless human unlike you powergamers faggots
>...well, except...
Batman is fucking shit since the 80s, he's only good when he's alone dealing with Gotham problems alone, the moment a powered hero appears near him he becomes this unstoppable Batgod with plotarmor and preptime bullshit

>>46520893
he'd be a terrible player, always running off to save someone.

>>46520874
>Those panels
>mansplaning
Oh fucking kill me already

>>46520443
Have you fucking SEEN Gotham? Frankly, it's surprising he turned out a hero.

>>46520900
You should stop taking feats from fighting games.

>He's a genius
>He, not only knows every science ever, he's also a master in them
>He knows magic and he's even pretty skillful in it but doesn't use it because he thinks it's cheating
>He know and it's probably the second best in the entire universe, behind karate kid, probably, in every martial art ever, from the past, the present, the future, this planet and any other
>Has infinite money and can build whatever
>He's never wrong
>His time of reaction is 0, literally can dodge laser at point black behind his back without previous notice, faster than spider-sense and spider reflexes, faster than Flash, faster than Hermes, etc
>Countless other shit
Batman's player is totally a that guy, he made a fucking mary sue

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>>46520923

>>46520169

He has stats comparable to Captain America without having taken any super serum. Think about that for a moment.

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>>46520923
-

I miss Batman playing hard to get in Justice League

>>46521161
Ok, what the fuck? of course, it's not like there haven't been a She-Hulk, a Miss Marvel, a Spider-woman, a Valkyrie, a Firestar, a Wildcat, a [insert countless names of female superheroes in marvel universe before Whor] right? she's the first one and should be praised for that

Thank god I stopped reading comics almost a decade ago

>>46521161

>Cheesecake ass shot in the middle of girlpower pow-wow.

lol never change marvel.

>it's a "if someone wants to discuss things relevant to comics, I'll dump hip and provocative panels from books which would fall off the radar if it wasn't for me" episode
I hate reruns.

>>46521161
I feel so bad for people who read superhero comics. Their shit is fucked up.

>>46521146
He's not.
Captain America can lift 1 ton, Batman can lift barely 500 kg.
Captain America can run at 60 mph, no fucking kidding, Batman can't.
Captain America can jump 3 meters high while lifting a 250kg bike, Batman can't.

In Avegers vs Justice League Batman says he can fight against Cap for a long time but he will ultimately lose because he lacks the physique.

>>46520839
It actually dates back to a small village in England (name means goat home) with a reputation for being stupid. They tell it differently, just pretending to be dumb so other people leave them alone. Most notably, the story of one of the first English kings (want to say John, but don't remember for sure) was touring the country and declaring every piece of land he walked on to be a public highway. Gotham didn't want to lose what little land they had, so they all started doing the dumbest shit they could think of and sent someone down the road to warn the king. The king laughed and let them keep their land.
New York took the name because they liked the implications of Cunning Tricksters Everyone Underestimates. When the guy who came up with batman was trying to think of a name, he happened to be in New York and saw a sign for Gotham Jewelers, and just liked the sound of it without realizing any of the history behind the name.

The more you know!

>>46521244
>Batman creates a commie spray and turns Captain into a pinko, making him powerless.

>>46520874
Oh honey...
>All dat pandering
>All dat preaching
>Timeless characters using neologisms
>Violence against people who physically can't fight back is totally fine when they say things you don't like
Ideologically I probably agree with this and even I think it's worse than "I'm the goddamn Batman." When are feminist themes in traditionally male-dominated media and genres going to stop being a novelty so we can just have good female characters without... this?

>>46521245
Difference in pronunciation however. The "h" is pronounced in the comics/tv/movies/etc. to make the "goth" connection but the village's name is Got-am in regular English pronunciation.

>>46521324
>When are feminist themes in traditionally male-dominated media and genres going to stop being a novelty
when feminism stops being a novelty that businesses think they can capitalize on

>>46521161
Anyone have the one where lady Thor asks Hercules what his father would think if he knew he was running around assaulting women?

>>46521386
Wasn't that Captain America from 2099?

>>46521386
The one which totally makes sense if you're familiar with the characters in question and aren't just a faggot who would whine about anything given the chance?

>>46521386
I know what one you mean, its actually a roided-up female captain america from another universe or something, but yes she is facepalmingly ignorant on her greek mythology when it comes to that page.

>>46521375
I'm honestly curious to know their sales statistics since they started putting in all the feminism/tumblr stuff. I wonder if it actually made it improve by any kind of significant margin.

>>46521431
It still works, because Hercules doesn't want to be like his father, who happens to be a rapist womanizer, so he actually stops that behaviour for a little.

>>46520485
>>46520556
Technically he grew up outside the city. You know, in his mansion.

Then again, his parents full well knowing Gothans reputation (since you know, they WORKED THERE), decided to go have a fun night out with their young child with no sensible "one of the richest people in the world" precautions like security or at LEAST having their driver pick them up outside the theatre.

No, they decided it was a perfect time to go for a stroll down a dark alley for no real reason.

>>46521245
Thanks GI Joe!

>>46521550
If that was the case it could have been worded better, or phrased in such a way as to indicate that more clearly.

>>46521550
I know that, you know that, but from the way she said it she didn't know that and it makes her sound stupid even if Herc read a second meaning to it.

>>46521661
Honestly, a better line would've been
>"Look at you, assaulting a woman. You're just a chip off the old block, aren't you?"
Because then that subtext is brutally clear.

>>46521622
>>46521661
>>46521702
Because Captain America didn't mean to shame Herc with Zeus' negative example, you dunces. As far as she knows, Zeus is equal to Thor and Spider-Man, he's a good guy who runs around New York beating up robbers and saving lives. It's the world of 2099, they don't even know if it's ACTUALLY 2099 and they can't possibly know about stuff like Civil War or other nasty sides of superhero business.
Read some comics before complaining about them.

>>46521715
The whole scenario was contrived anyway.

>>46521449
Honestly, I doubt it. I know tons of women who play video games, plenty who play RPGs, and I'm even dating a girl who majored in sequential art in college, but I don't know a single one who reads capeshit. It just isn't something that appeals to women, by and large. Or anyone, really, who isn't already reading it.

>>46521715
>superhero business

You realize that we're talking about how in mythology Zeus was like Greece's top rapist? The subject being discussed was general ignorance of mythology by the author done in such a way as to make what he had written accidentally stupid, like when you where born.

>>46521755
Well Marvel and DC are generally terrible, and as the "Big 2" they are the most widespread.

I don't read new comics; instead, I read old ones that have been compiled into anthologies. I do this because
A: I like being able to sit down and read an entire story arc at once.
B: This way I don't have slog through the shit issues/arcs to find the good ones.

>>46521747
There's nothing contrived about it. Herc does a bad thing, Cap tries to shame him for it with a role model and chooses Zeus, Herc realizes he's not all perfect himself.
PAD (the man behind this page) is a fucking prophet. In the 90s, he complained about his readers failing to recognize any kind of subtlety in his interactions between characters. For laughs, he wrote up a story where these characters did nothing but talk about their issues, and to this day this story is considered to be one of PAD's best.
>>46521779
How the fuck does character's ignorance of things of the past make author look stupid, accidentally or otherwise?

>>46520169
Perhaps. However he was less of a cunt than John Stewart GL.

Worst fucking member of the founding 7 in the cartoons.

>>46520887
It's seriously baffling how much shit the Joker gets away with in the DC universe and how he's apparently one of the single most terrifying villains of all because HE'S SO UNPREDICTABLE, GUYS.

>>46521839
How is the character that stupid?

Hercules is the product of Zeus brand rape.

>>46521906
I'm sure Herc casually mentions that every time they talk.

>>46520290
Everyone else could also take him down when they feel like it.

>>46521900
The only reason the Joker is scary is Batman is never going to kill him. Batman will never kill anyone because he's pants-shittingly terrified that it would be the start of a slippery slope, so he won't even break his code for someone as vile as the Joker.

>>46521917
It's not like like he is a legendary hero or anything.

>>46521954
How many times are you going to ignore me saying that people of 2099 don't know jack about the past?

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>>46521937
That's Batman's problem.

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>>46521900
Seriously, the Joker is lame as hell, just because he's "Batmans Nemesis" he gets a split of his plot armor by association letting the clown shit on other villains like Batman shits on other heroes.

That point where he cut off and wore his own face and became an even edgier retard was just awful.

>>46521937

Yeah but here's the problem, Bat's hands him over to the GCPD. I guarantee you Joker would have "Been shot trying to escape" or "Fallen down a flight of stairs" By now given how totally corrupt that Department apparently is.

>>46521971
We managed to preserve the legend of Hercules for thousands of years, yet by 2099 it's completely gone?

>>46521937
He actually crippled a couple of swat agents when they were about to shot Joker down, with good reason and with the law on their side due Joker killing innocents, just so they don't killed his lover...I mean his archnemesis.

>>46521972
So I suppose we can all start talking about that time Superman fisted the Joker while Batman watched?

>>46521972
>That's Batman's
Yeah but that is the same slippery slope capeshit nonsense, because Superman killed the Joker he becomes a soulless dictator who took over the world and killed most of his own friends.

>>46521979
>>46521972
You're both right. Ultimately, modern Joker is implausible and Batman's Rogues gallery was more believable back in the Silver Age when they were all just bank robbers.

>>46522000
I think it was due Superman killing Lois and his unborn child more than killing Joker.

>>46520874
>mansplaining
Sweet Christ on fucking rollerskates. What are they going to do next, have her give a rant about the oppression of middle-class white women who've never known actual hardship?

>>46521244
Didn't Batman vs. Captain America end in a draw because neither could get the upper hand?

>>46521934
No, because he will always see it coming and he'll have a plan for it.

>>46521981
And there's a reason for that.

>>46522029
One of them was Batman stating he knew Captain America would win in the end after they square off but they realize there is a greater threat and the two of them stop fighting.

>>46522031
No he won't. If he could do that he could have prevented most crimes before they happen.

>>46522029
Funnily enough I was reading it just this morning. batman concedes that the Cap could actually beat him but it'd take a lot of time.
They call the whole thing off because they both sknow they've been tricked into fighting each other.

>>46522018
That, plus Joker nuked Metropolis.

>>46522006
The problem is when the Joker starts making the fool of other heroes.
Wasn't there one time the Joker led a bunch of villains to try and take over the Justice League Watchtower and begins the charge by clocking a super in the face with a crowbar?

>>46522128
>That, plus Joker nuked Metropolis.
How has this fucker not received the death penalty yet?

>>46522222
Because he's the Joker, lel.

Also, nice quints.

>>46522222
Well he kinda did.

See
>>46521972

>>46520284
But it's not Superman's only weakness. He has three others.

>Red sunlight
When under weaker sunlight, such as that of his native Krypton, Superman loses his powers and becomes just a normal Kryptonian. Though, note that a Kryptonian under red sunlight is still somewhat stronger and tougher than a normal human - but not quite into superhuman ranges.

>Magic
Superman has no resistance to magic. It affects him as it would a normal Kryptonian - though, again, Kryptonians are a little stronger and tougher than humans on average, although again not to truly superhuman levels.

>People
Put innocent civilians in danger - fire a rocket at a bus, for example - and Superman will stop fighting you to protect the innocents, even if from a purely objective standpoint fighting you directly is more important. Or he *should*, anyway. Fuckin' Snyder...anyway, this is granted a weakness that should be roleplayed rather than a mechanical one.

Anyway, point being that Superman has weaknesses. But really Superman isn't and never has been about his superpowers, but rather the fact that he's just a swell guy.

If Superman was flying along and saw a guy about to commit suicide by jumping off a building, he wouldn't wait until after the fact and then catch the guy. He'd fly up to him and talk to him about his problems and try and convince the guy not to jump in the first place. If the guy jumped anyway Superman would catch him, of course, 'cause to Superman all life is sacred. But catching a jumper doesn't solve the jumper's problems. Talking to him might.

>so optimized that the GM literally has to invent a substance to give you a weakness

Honestly, Superman seems more to me like the character of a guy who completely randomly generated his ability scores and background and just happened to get the most optimal combinations. And even though he can wreck everyone in a fight, he's always the first to suggest diplomacy and talking.

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>>46521145
>An objectively weaker, less agressive and more vulnerable creature is given sound advice
>I DON'T NEED YOU MANSPLAINING

>The harmful consequence she was warned of befalls her
>TEACH MEN (and only men, not women for some reason) NOT TO RAPE

Sometimes, part of me thinks that the powers that be simply tolerate feminism because they need a good laugh.

>>46520169
YES

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>>46521386

>>46522222
Injusticeverse Superman kills him for it.

What is REALLY stupid is that even though Harley Quinn helped the Joker every step of the way in Nuking Metropolis and tricking Supes into murdering his pregnant wife he never just kills her too, even after he becomes a super dictator and starts killing a bunch of other people.

>>46522286
Supes is vulnerable to magic, not weak to magic. There's a difference.

>>46521979
It's not even a corruption thing per se, for obvious reasons cops hate cop killers. If a cop killer gets caught, even by the most upstanding police force, I can guarantee you that he'll have some "accidents", or he will "not wear his seatbelt" during a particularly "bumpy ride", or he will "try to escape" which results in him "needing to be subdued with force".

>>46522273
>>46522347
>>46522258
You know what I mean. Why has the judge never sentenced him to the electric chair? I'm looking for an in-universe reason here, not just "because the Joker rakes in the money for DC".

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>>46522286
>If Superman was flying along and saw a guy about to commit suicide by jumping off a building, he wouldn't wait until after the fact and then catch the guy.

I'm just going to leave this here.

>>46522347
Too fucking many people like Harley, literally you could make her rape babies and eat their brains that people will go "dah, she's so adorable", in fact, half /co/ trully believes Joker mind controlled her or something into helping her so she's super duper innocent guys.

>>46522385
Supposedly Joker's not competent to stand trial or truly understand what he's done, so he always winds up sent to Arkham to be fixed, and it never works.

Martian Manhunter did force him into sanity once by rewiring his brain, though. He immediately regretted everything he'd done and would have probably killed himself out of guilt if he hadn't snapped back to insanity a bit later on.

>>46522416
Nu52 Harley literally murdered hundreds of kids and all the people around them with high-explosives hidden in hand-held gaming consoles.

The writers seem to have tried to quietly-retcon that out of existence though.

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>>46522347
>>46522416
Last I remember, Harley turns face in Injustice.

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>>46522286
Oops, forgot my pic.

...

>Bruce: "This is fucking bullshit."
>Clark: "I'm sorry."
>Bruce: "Yeah, right!"
>GM: "Bruce, we saw him roll his stats. It was right on the table, in front of us. With my dice."
>Bruce: "It is literally impossible for him to have rolled all 18s!"
>John: "Well...I mean, it's actually just statistically really, really unlikely..."
>Barry: "And besides, how did you get that many proficiencies, Bruce?"
>Bruce: "Because the Batman is optimized. He has to be. He's just a normal man. UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE."
>Barry: "I don't think normal people can bench that much."
>Arthur: "Or know 'literally every martial art, master engineer, master detective...' Christ, when does your character sleep?"
>Clark: "Look, I'll just randomly determine my race, okay? There's only a 1 in 100 chance of not being human...and I rolled alien. Sorry"
>Bruce: "..."
>Clark: "I'm sorry! Hang on, I'll randomly roll alien race...I'm Kryptonian."
>John: "Wow, best race here. Better than my Green Martian character, even. What are the odds...?"
>Bruce: "I USE MY WEALTH TRAIT TO BUY ALL THE KRYPTONITE."
>Clark: "Bruce, I don't want my character to fight yours. I thought they'd actually be friends..."
>BRUCE: "NO FUCK YOU. I AM THE NIGHT."

>>46522432
>Supposedly Joker's not competent to stand trial or truly understand what he's done, so he always winds up sent to Arkham to be fixed, and it never works.
Yeah, but that gets less plausible every time he manages to break out. There's never going to be a satisfying answer no matter how much I ask, is there?

>>46522432
That is complete bullshit though, insanity pleas do not work that way.
Joker is just a terrorist who carries out literal terrorist attacks using explosives and chemical weapons repeatedly and knows entirely what he's doing.

Fucker makes Al Qaeda look like a bunch of silly pranksters all by himself.

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>>46520169
What do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHHsdE_oQg

>>46522499
Writers don't understand law, news at eleven (experts have determined that water is, in fact, wet).

>>46522492
Honestly J'ohn is even more hardcore than Superman and should be able to hand him his ass easily.

Martian Manhunter has literally every power Supes does, plus a hundred more with some of the being super hax.

Also half the time his "weakness to fire" is revealed to be psychosomatic so its not even that big a deal.

The only thing he lacks is popularity plot armor.

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>>46522416
>Too fucking many people like Harley
Not just that, she's a woman. A lot of characters that are very liked get killed, and it's literally of no consequence in a story where everything gets warped back to the status quo. What matters is that she's a woman, and Superman killing her would be man-on-woman violence, and that's bad. Because slapping a woman is worse than nuking a city full of off-screen citizens, because women and manginas hate seeing a cunt getting what's coming to her. Add on top of that the fact that we're in the Twitter era, where every obese tumblrina can literally singlehandedly start a scandal that gets people fired because her feelings are hurt, and I understand why the creators opted to keep Harley Quinn out of Superman's "RIP AND TEAR" zone.

In fact, this is why a lot of writers (in the West at least) struggle with writing female characters. Feminists whine that they want more female characters, but how do you do that without offending them? A female goon that gets ripped to shreds like cannon fodder is offensive, an unsympathetic villain that gets her ass kicked by the good guys is offensive, a female protagonist that's thoroughly incompetent is offensive. It seems like only the blandest type of woman, the stronk independent womyn who don't need no man and never does anything wrong therefore never needs to grow or learn something, is the only female character that's universally accepted.

To use a hypothetical example, a male superhero that tries to get into the business, constantly fucks up and gets spat on by his peers is a sympathetic underdog that you end up rooting for. A female in that exact same situation is a "harmful stereotype" that somehow proves the idea that women aren't cut out to be heroic characters, while also being a fetishization of female suffering or whatever.

tl;dr: Harley is a woman, therefore she can do no wrong. And even if she does do wrong, it's somehow a man's fault.

>>46522416
To be fair, Harley WAS a good girl before the Joker twisted her (a fucking psychologist) around his finger.

>>46522385
You can't give legitimately insane people the death penalty, senpai.

>>46522385
>Why has the judge never sentenced him to the electric chair?

Well, at least since 2007, it's because New Jersey (the state the Gotham is in) has no death sentence.

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>>46522558
>Harley WAS a good girl
No she wasn't.

>>46522544
Which is why the Martian Manhunter is not a featured member of the Justice League anymore: he makes everyone else look bad.

>>46522593
Sluts are the best girl Anon.

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>>46522593
>Harleen Quinzel fucked her way to her degree
>Gets corrupted by the Joker
You know, it all suddenly makes sense.

>>46522404
There's also one where he stays a whole day with a jumper and promises to respect her decision if she jumps

>>46522006
This is the problem of modern comics in general.

Say what you will about the Japanese crap, at least it ENDS. Most of these stories have been played out and retconned so many times that they're completely meaningless. The Joker was a great villain until they wrung him dry.

>>46522544
Manhunter has the power of Superman during a normal day for Superman when he's fighting Toymaker or something. Superman's actual power levels for strength, speed, and so on, are well above J'ohn's.

Though J'ohn still probably could win in the psychic combat department, where Supes is strictly on the defensive, resistant but by no means invulnerable.

>Also half the time his "weakness to fire" is revealed to be psychosomatic so its not even that big a deal.

Of course, the other half of the time it's real, and so it is a big deal given that he's going up against a guy who has heat vision.

I'd complain about consistency, but Superman himself is hardly innocent in that regard.

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>>46522622
Only if they're pure sluts, not used goods like Harley.

>>46522593
Cheating is a far cry from murder.

>>46520874
>the lasso compels truth
>the lasso doesn't stop mansplaining
So mansplaining is true. Praise the patriarchy!

>>46522593
That kinda makes her corruption by the Joker feel a whole lot less interesting if she just slept her way thru school and is just a dumb bimbo. Makes Joker look shittier too.

>>46522593
That's one comic that isn't even part of the main DC continuity, even before the New 52 reset.

In the main comics Harleen was actually a very, VERY talanted...everything, really. She became Joker's Harlequin basically because it allowed her to pretend to be a ditzy sidekick whom no one expects much of, rather than herself, whom everyone she knew had always placed immense pressure on.

>>46522657
Manhunter has heat vision too though.

>>46522063
Which is?

Because we have to go through a lot of shit to loose all that. I mean, these legends survived a lot of shit to get to us.

>>46522335
I guess someone never studied Greek mythology. Most of the stories start with "so there was this time Zeus stuck his dick in someone or something he shouldn't have..."

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>>46522335
This woman knows nothing about Greek mythology.

>>46520169
>Was Batman the That Guy of his group?
What, are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think he is? He's the goddamn Batman.

>>46522694
Which Superman isn't nearly as vulnerable to as Manhunter is, since either Manhunter is actually weak to heat, and thus Supes has advantage; or else Manhunter is psychologically afraid of fire, which nevertheless still leaves Superman with the advantage.

So what's your point? Like I said, Manhunter still has a notable edge in psychic combat.

>>46522688
Stupid rewrite just because now she's a casual-bait 'antihero' that SJWs have latched onto as a Strong Female Character.

Harley was always a shit who was easily manipulated by those willing to push her buttons, be it Joker to turn her into his bitch or batman to get out of her death trap.

>>46522286
That's EXACTLY what Superman is about and why he's so compelling.

>>46522677
I agree. I saw Harley as a go getter hoping to make easy fame as Joker's psychologist.

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>>46522640
>Say what you will about the Japanese crap, at least it ENDS.
>220 episodes of Naruto
>455 more of Shippuden
>spin-offs
>OVAs
>movies
>probably an eventual reboot
Does it really?

>retconned so many times that they're completely meaningless.
That's what really gets me, desu.

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>>46522688
So Harleen became Harley becaused she cracked under the pressure of overachievement, or is she only pretending to be retarded?

>>46522640
Thats wrong actually.

Naruto/Boruto and DBZ/Super are as bad as the worst of capeshit and they are still ongoing.

>>46522751
>anime is, in addition to all the problems it has already, slowing picking up the problems rife in Western comics
There might be a God, but he is not loving.

>>46522747
Wasn't she assigned to the Joker?

Also I've always wondered what would have happened if Harley ended up some other rogue's psychologist and latched onto them instead. Like say Ivy.

>>46522751
>That Lobo
Fuck my shit up

>>46522740
>Harley was always a shit who was easily manipulated by those willing to push her buttons

See, there were a few episodes of the Animated Series that actually suggested that Joker was on some level afraid of Harley, and that was why at least part of why he mistreated her - to keep her down.

I wish that had been ported into the comics. I wanted a comic run where Harley was shown to, yes, have been corrupted by the Joker, but he was arguably TOO successful at it - and one day for whatever reason she's cut loose.

Like, her insanity plus her doctorate in psychology allow her to talk someone who has her at gunpoint into committing suicide then and there.

>>46522766
Sure, but those are two unique cases in Anime, meanwhile in western capecomics tell me a comic which actually ended for real, come, I'll wait.

>>46522784
>picking up
dragon ball exists

>>46522766
Didn't naruto end almost a year ago? I remember because a bunch of Naruto/Sakura shippers got incredibly butthurt. Like an order of magnitude more butthurt than the makorra shippers when LoK ended

>>46522836
But it's not still ongoing apart from the movies, which is just milking an old cash cow............right?

>>46520217
>he develops comprehensive contingency plans to take out every single other member of the party; whenever they ask, all he says is "Just in case."
In Batman's defense, the writers love to have Justice League members be mind controlled, have their sense of justice turn to oppression, fight alternate universe versions of themselves, etc.

"Just in case" happens quite often.

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>>46522751
You didn't deserve this Lobo.

No, more like the only decent fucking player in his group.

I'd ban whoever made supes from the group though.

>>46522837
Naruto ended, then there was a 'finale movie' which is what causes the NaruSaku shippers to get butthurt because they were left absolutly no room to bullshit that somehow Naruto and Hinata hadn't hooked up and had two kids.

The after that there was a naruto special short manga where some dumb bullshit happened with the adult heroes and their kids.

Now there's a move and the next season which is titled "Boruto" which is basically a continuation but the kids are meant to be the main characters.

>>46522761
A little of both. Basically she was a female version of Bruce Wayne: Incredibly healthy and physically robust and an extremely keen mind with a nearly photographic memory and ability to pick up new skills.

Unlike Bruce, she never had a real tragedy in her backstory to give her focus; also unlike Bruce, she was always been pushed by those around her who saw how good she was and encouraged her to do better. "Wow, you got an A+ in honors chemistry? You should be skipped ahead a grade!" "Christ, Harley, you're an amazing gymnast! I'm gonna talk to my friend, see if we can get you on the Olympics!"

So when The Joker came along he saw that all he had to do to corrupt Harley was just make her open up to the idea that instead of pushing herself so hard in every direction and tearing her psyche apart by doing so, she should just let herself be free to do whatever she wants to do. Forget about everyone else! Just do what feels good! I'll show you the way!

And so she cracked and became Harley. Though I think she's always been teetering on the edge instead of falling over - hence why she's Harley Quinn, not Harleen Quinzel (her real self) and not The Harlequin (her alter-ego realized to its fullest).

>>46522837
>believe that Naruhina is best couple, and the most likely to become canon
>lose interest in the series and stop paying attention to it
>years later, learn that Narusakufags Naruhina became canon
>see the the colon-shredding butthurt of the Narusakufags at this revelation
That was a good day.

>>46522836
Dragon ball has less than 20 years of life, and there are some gaps, from DBGT to this Gods bullshit it has been quite a few years.

Meanwhile western comics have been milking their characters for triple than time without rest.

>>46522856
>But it's not still ongoing
ha ha ha ha ha ha

>>46522766
>>46522751
So, a few series just keep going on, but at least those are mostly on one or two threads of continuity. Not so much of that bullshit with multitudes of writers writing essentially entirely different characters with the same name since the fucking 30s.

Though, Osomatsu recently had a rebooted version. Fortunately, it ostensibly kept with the original continuity (as much as continuity for it could be said to exist). So, while that's good for now, maybe we'll be seeing more reboots and continuations. Maybe >>46522784 is right after all. Now that I think about it, there was also a season of Lupin III recently, and they're going to be doing more FLCL.
...Fuck, >>46522784 is right.

>>46522856
There's an entire new stupid anime, and Goku and Vegeta have gained a new super form called "Super Saiyan God" and beyond that "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" through no effort on their part.

>>46520217
It's not like everyone in the group gets mind controlled or does rather questionable things all the fucking time or anything.

>>46522903
As faggoty as shipping as, there's little more satisfying in the consuming of a series than watching a rivalry ship get sunk as yours is made canon.

>>46520364
Clarks whole fucking planet was destroyed you mong.

>>46522921
Actually Dragon Ball Super shows that Vegeta put *quite a lot* of effort into becoming a SSGSS.

>>46522903
I mean. I managed about a quarter before I quit because it was somehow more boring than having nothing to do in the sandbox, and even then it was pretty clear that the blind chick and Naruto where gonna fugg.

>>46522697
>most

More like all the relevant ones. Well, him or poseidon.

>>46522920
At least fucking Jojo can go on for decades without running characters into the ground thanks to a combination of timeskips, alternate universes and the fact that each part has a different protagonist.

>>46522920
>Not so much of that bullshit with multitudes of writers writing essentially entirely different characters with the same name since the fucking 30s.
Captain America was out of print for a while after the war, iirc, and now he's back to being a household name. Only time will truly tell.

>>46522950
Yeah, but he didn't know them. He can't angst over a people he never really new. Clark might from an objective standpoint wish that he'd known more of Krypton and Jor and Lara, but it's only an objective thing.

Superman's home is Kansas, and his family are Ma and Pa Kent. Who in most continuities are both still alive, and even when Pa Kent's dead, he dies from a mundane heart attack at a ripe old age, not something dark or tragic.

In fact it's actually *important* to Superman mythos that if Pa Kent dies, it's from a heart attack, or anyeurism, or else basically something internal and mundane. Because in dying that way Pa Kent teaches Clark the most important lesson of his life: that he can't save everyone, no matter how hard he tries.

>>46520228
A min maxer that hates roleplaying but still willing to be a team player.

>>46522951
Doesn't stop it from being complete shit like a preteen inventing his own transformations by just recolouring a character in paint.

And there's no reason Saiyans should get a literal godmode form and not every other race.

>>46522766
>>46522751
>2 counter-examples vs. hundreds of compliant examples

wew

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>>46522998
Damnit, forgot my pic again.

Christ All-Star Superman is good. I can't believe it's related to ASBaR.

>>46522958
>about a quarter
How far along was that? I had shit taste as a teenager and only stopped reading when Madara announced his batshit insane plan to everyone, so I don't know how much longer it went on after that.

>that scene in Justice League where he reveals everyone's secret identities

>that scene in Justice League or Justice League Unlimited where he tells Superman "cry me a river"

What a cunt.

>>46522688
It's a comic by her creators, so it carries more wait than whatever gay feminist agitprop you're talking about.

>>46523028
I got to the fight with the dude who carried a giant gord filled with dirt.

>>46523037
To be fair, Wally was being a drama queen about his identity. Remember Luthor in JLU?

>"Well, at least I'll be able to learn the secret identity of the Flash!"
>tears off mask
>long pause
>"I have no idea who this is."

>>46523062
Sand, actually. And which fight? This is important. If it was with the Bruce Lee knockoff with no fashion sense I'd be impressed that you could tell that early. It was on the table then, but not yet a sure thing.

>>46523043
Her creators in a comic that was out-of-continuity even when it was published, nevermind later. It was part of the DC Animated Universe continuity, which is distinct from and always has been distinct from the main DC comics universe.

Continuity is controlled by the IP holders, not the creators. Sometimes the creators ARE the IP holders, but sometimes they're not, and you just have to accept that.

Although for the record, Harleen's actual backstory (overachievement, etc.) predates the current spat of SJW and anti-SJW by a good bit. Three or four years, or thereabouts.

>>46523027
That's kind of sad yo.

>>46523106
Yes, but it is the hardships that make the hero.

>>46522661
Purityfags ruin fucking everything.

No

Because in super hero comics every PC is a snowflake, unbeatable semi-god with extreme armour and power level

It is as if these things were written by 12 year-olds

>>46521215
Also this villain is supposed to specifically target women heros

>>46520169
Batman noticed that attacks in the game's system were either instantly fatal, or really did nothing, so, with that in mind, he built himself to just avoid attacks instead of soak them. he also noticed that all the "super powers" were really good, yes, but point-wise, he could just max out every skill on the sheet, and cap out all his physical stats, and mental ones, and his social modifiers...

Functionally, the GM gave the party a colossal number of building points, and everyone else bought stuff like "Absolutely invincible to (laundry list of things (excluding magic))" and "Construct an Infinite Variety of Objects out of Hard Light", Bruce bought a mansion, a car, a personal manservant, a bottomless bank account, maximum stats and skills.

And while Batman may claim himself to be a brooding loner, he's actually a great Team Player, but as the only character with any ranks in stealth, he has to play up the "I work alone" aspect... because how else is he going to sneak up on anything?

>>46523106
Truth, but it's sadness with an important point, not meaningless angst.

Or a fucking tornado.

Man, fuck Zack Snyder.

>>46523092
It was just after that. I think there was like a giant sand mech involved and Naruto turned into a giant thing.

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>>46522666
>this post
>those numbers

>>46523123
Not every hero is flash, anon. Some are just daredevil.

>>46523139
Oh, yeah, that fight. The giant sandmech was actually the manifestation of the demon sealed inside gourd-boy that grants him his unique sand-control abilities.

>>46523064
>[after going to the bathroom]
>Aren't you going to wash your hands?
>No... because I'm evil
Love that show

>>46522824
Harley was indeed on record at one point as being the closest anyone has ever come to killing Batman.

>>46521449
When they come out with the latest gimmick it generally has a large boost for the initial issue then it almost immediately falls back to normal or even lower

>>46523105
>. It was part of the DC Animated Universe continuity, which is distinct from and always has been distinct from the main DC comics universe.

Mostly by being better.

>>46520364
>sole survivor of having his entire planet destroyed
>has tons of powers and is nearly indestructible
>only weakness is the few chunks of radioactive rock from his home planet which happened to fall to Earth
>randomly pulls friends and family members who also survived out of his ass whenever it's convenient, including a fucking superpowered dog that is completely loyal to him

>>46523123
>I never read a comic
You know there're tons of comics where the heroes get their asses handled to themselves, right?

>>46523154
That sounds right.

I remember at some point the blind girl, who was also the only one consistently nice to him, got wailed on by someone. His reaction to that is what made it obvious to me.

>>46520874

This /is/ what Wonder Woman is after all, since her inception.

>>46523131
>Team Player
>Has a list of how to kill his friends

>>46523092
Rock Lee should have won that fight, it was so bullshit how Gaara was able to just zip out of his superpowered combos in a split second.

Rock Lee has anti-plot armor, he loses fights he would have easily won if he was the main character. but since he's not he gets jobbed.

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>>46523176
I'm not necessarily arguing that point, I'm just saying that it's not Harley's backstory in the main continuity and so isn't all that relevant to the discussion.

It'd be like me bringing up Trioculus during a discussion about Star Wars post-Endor.

>>46523135
Stop, invencible son

>>46523187
That fight happened right before Bruce Lee, and it was her blind cousin (or half brother, since their fathers are identical twins). That fight put it on the table for me, but it wasn't until Naruto beat up the cousin right before gourd-boy went demonmode that I thought it was a sure thing.

>>46523186
and then they are reborn on the next chapter without scratches with some bullshit "reason"

Most comics are worse than Doctor Who when it comes to plot armour and lack of actual danger

>>46523187
>Blind girl
Hyugas aren't blind, in fact they see in 359º

>>46523216
Dark Greetings!

>>46523212
Whatever about the piece of shit the rest of that series became, the Rock Lee-Gaara fight was fucking awesome.

>>46523212
>peak human should have beat an uber-demon
I get that people like the underdog and they think effort should be rewarded, but their power levels are just too different.

>>46523212
>Rock Lee has anti-plot armor, he loses fights he would have easily won if he was the main character. but since he's not he gets jobbed.
That was the problem with Naruto, really. So many characters worthy of protagonist status (or at least, a lot more attention than they got) but nope, they struggle to be even sidekicks.

I'd have to disagree with Lee deserving to have won, but I feel that would distract from more important points.

>>46523202
"Mind control" is insanely cheap in the system, and at least three of his friends have Evil Opposites as their nemesis-es...
Bizzarro, Reverse Flash (real original), Sinestro (Oh, that's a telling name).
He made his major foe a Clown on purpose.
But the GM has a really sick sense of humor.

>>46523235
And the X-ray vision and chakra vision, can't forget those either.

>>46523229
It's Rock Lee Syndrome: the character is actually really strong and very capable, but he's constantly being mismatched and/or fighting people way beyond him. It's the same problem Chad from Bleach has.

>>46522606
Except Plastic Man, the true secret OP member of the Justice League. I believe in one version of Batman's contingency plan, the way to defeat Martian Manhunter was to evacuate everyone in the area and send in Plastic Man since there was no way for J'ohn to beat him.

>>46523229
I've got an eye for love.

>>46523235
Wait, why not 360? Also that would be disorienting as fuck.

>>46520808
She's a weaker Superman, but her lack of exploitable weaknesses and magical proficiency balance it out I guess.

>>46523269
So go watch the rock lee spin-off. :^)
http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-spin-off-rock-lee-his-ninja-pals

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>>46523235
>and then another 180!
>uuh yeeaah!!

>>46523292
Which is why she wants Naruto... she's seen his schvanschtucker.

>>46523324
That was a good movie.

>>46523295
Kenshin managed to avoid this problem with Sanosuke.

>>46523300
Hyuugas have one singular blindspot, in the absolute back of their head.

>>46523269
>they struggle to be even sidekicks
You know things are fucked up when Tenten (who doesn't even have an official last name) got more character development in the Rock Lee spinoff gag comedy series than she did in the actual mainline series.

>>46523266
Are you stupid? There's no such thing as "peak human" in Naruto, and he was literally super buffed by opening the gates to the point he could have destroyed any of the other kids at the tournament if they were in Gaara's place with how fast and strong he was.

>>46523300
Well it's they can turn on and off while still needing to practice with it before it stops being disorienting. Also, they can actually see 360 degrees, except that their own anatomy blocks 1 degree of it; they developed the spinning move to compensate for this flaw.

>>46523300
>Wait, why not 360? Also that would be disorienting as fuck.

Presumably part of the jutsu is the ability to not be disoriented by it (since otherwise it would be useless). One of those necessary secondary powers, like how there's no such thing as Truly Immovable Rod since otherwise they just don't function as intended.

It's 359-degrees because...it is. Basically it needs a weakness, so it has one.

>>46523269
>>Rock Lee has anti-plot armor, he loses fights he would have easily won if he was the main character. but since he's not he gets jobbed.
>That was the problem with Naruto, really. So many characters worthy of protagonist status (or at least, a lot more attention than they got) but nope, they struggle to be even sidekicks.
>I'd have to disagree with Lee deserving to have won, but I feel that would distract from more important points.
>>>
> Anonymous 04/07/16(Thu)18:56:04 No.46523281▶
He was crushing sandboy, the way they had him lose the fight when he was pingponging the guy off the roof and ceiling and hitting him so hard and fast it would have liquidated anyone else was nonsense.

>>46523348
>can't do any ninja magic at all
Maybe peak human wasn't the most correct term, but I stand by it.

>>46523297
Considering that he survived 3000 years scattered into separate molecules on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean?

Yeah. Plas is that guy who didn't bother with offense and decided to make himself as completely unkillable as possible.

>>46523297
His his strength to throw him into the sun super fast? Doesn't matter if Plas isn't killed because he'll still be stuck there.

>>46523370
It would have been nonsense if he had been superslamming the real sandboy instead of a decoy, though you might argue that tricking Lee into taking the decoy was bullshit.

>>46522688
That's pretty stupid though, Harley makes more sense as a slut who slept her way through school. She's honestly kinda worthless, and only good at things when acting directly on the jokers orders.

She's never really seemed even marginally intelligent when dealing with shit on her own.

>>46523123
>It is as if these things were written by 12 year-olds
Or for them...

>Batman thread turns into Naruto thread.
Why live?

>>46523408
The fact he could get out of being smashed that hard and fast repeatedly in the blink of an eye was a total asspull on Kishimoto's part.

>>46521981
Who knows, maybe the surviving stories are blended together in pop culture with the Disney movie

Are people forgetting Gaara is a jinchurriki? a fucking weapon of mass destruction also his Bijuu is the fucking impenetrable defense, Lee could have won any other combat, but basically he got the worst pairing ever.

He also was fighting against two oponents, Gaara and the Shukaku, he won against Gaara, but the Shukaku reacts faster than a Genin and that's why Gaara was always protected.

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>>46523421
Injustice showed that when the Joker is no longer a direct influence on her, she can get her shit together, realize he was bad for her, and turn into a good guy.

>>46523448
Shonen manga isn't too different from western comics. Turns out boys tend to like similar things the world over.

>>46523448
So we can learn to pick ourselves up...wait, sorry, Alfred, I thought you asked why do we fall.

>>46523479
That still does not absolve her from nuking Metropolis

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>>46523421
>>46523479
Plus, have you seen her granddaughters?

>>46523451
So yeah, you're arguing that tricking Lee into taking the decoy was bullshit. I don't feel like agreeing with or arguing against that, so let's just call it an impasse.

>>46523494
Harley needs an obligatory shit-slapping or at least a good talking-to before she turns face. Hell, B:TAS had that episode where Batman has to babysit Harley for an extended period of time, and at the end of it, she admits he's a nice guy and could learn something from him.

>>46523421
The series had her capture Batman and nearly kill him. She got very close. Joker didn't match it until he kidnapped and brainwashed Robin.

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>>46523378
Actually, Plastic Man has plenty of offensive powers. They're all just really... invasive.

>>46523399
Okay, what's stopping Plastic Man from doing the reverse of what's happening in pic related?

>>46523497
These two beat up Terry while Terry is wearing POWER ARMOR.

For jailbait, they're tough.

Do you think they still finish each other's sentences while screwing?

>>46523647
The fact Martian manhunnter is super strong, super fast, invincible, can shapeshift and become intangible amongst a mass of other super powers?

>>46523661
I really hope so.

>>46522969
I wonder if there'll ever be an alternate universe Avdol and/or Kakyouin

>>46523661
Terry's batsuit is fucking crap, plenty of mundane people have slapped his shit while he was wearing it.

>>46523721
Don't forget "Is psychic."

>>46523761
Steel Ball Run dad an alternate Abdul. He was racing a camel, but he got taken out at the beginning of the race.

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>>46523494
>"It’s funny, because she started off as just like a one joke idea and she’s gained all these different dimensions from all the stories we did, and the stuff that happens in the comics. I think bottom line the most important thing about her is that she’s funny. One way or the other regardless of what her backstory is, or whether she’s in an abusive relationship with the Joker, or if she’s off on her own, or hanging out with Poison Ivy, or whether she’s a villain or a hero. I think bottomline her stories always have to be fun, if not flat out hilarious (but that would be even better). That’s one of the things I like about the current comic. [The people doing the Suicide Squad movie] understand that, they’re not treating her as another angsty bizarre superhero type character. She’s really weird and funny and kind of chaotic."
- Bruce Timm on Harley Quinn's most important characteristics

You can't kill Harley because she's the comic relief.

>>46521882
Your opinion is shit.

Thought you aught to know.

>>46523938
Except thats wrong, look at this short made by Bruce Timm himself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpu6yPAFHrs

>>46523938
>You can't kill Harley because she's the comic relief.
Tell that to Wash

>>46523945
He's abrasive as fuck and his romance arcs are godawful.

>>46523721
Which worked out so well for Manhunter in Obsidian Age, right?

>>46523818
>psychic
Plastic Man is functionally immune to psychic attacks. That's why Batman sent Plastic Man to go kick Martian Manhunter's ass in Obsidian Age.

>>46523983
That's an alternate universe where everything is terrible.

>>46524036
Where batman has plot armor because the writers push him so hard Manhunter lacks it because he's less popular, so while the martian detective should be dominating everything and batman should be a smear on a pavement in most JL situations the writing has it happen the other way around.

>>46520169
Batman was the Murderhobo of the group with a GM who was running a "No Killing" campaign.

Superman is the powergamer.
Wonder Woman is the method actor.
Green Arrow is the storyteller.
Flash is the specialist.

>>46524172
>superman player
>playing with the intention of breaking the game
You don't know what powergamer means

>>46524010
>I'm a leaf on the wind, watch me soar
;_;7

>>46523027
the only thing All-Star Superman and All-Star Batman and Robin have in common is the ''all-star'' in the title, they aren't related in any other way

>>46524231
Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/models/robinslaws.html

>>46523437
Time to go home folks, that's it for tonight

>>46524623
>However success is defined by the rules system you're using, this player wants more of it
Totally not Superman
>He tends to see his PC as an abstraction, as a collection of super powers optimized for the acquisition of still more super powers
Not Superman
> He pays close attention to the rules, with a special eye to finding quirks and breakpoints he can exploit to get large benefits at comparatively low costs.
Again, not Superman
>He wants you to put the "game" back in the term "roleplaying game", and to give him good opportunities to add shiny new abilities to his character sheet.
Gues what? not Superman

Superman is the guy who got lucky and rolled perfectly, by luck picked the best class and is doing a fine job so far but he cares nothing about the system, only being a good guy

So, before replying next time, learn what you're fucking talking about

>>46524623
In which parallel universe is Superman a powergamer?, I think you mistook Batman for Superman.

>>46524623
>Clark never uses the full extenct of his powers, only a small % because muh cardboard world
>Clark always tries diplomacy first, and if it fails he tries it once more
>Clark never trains, nor prepares just in case
>Clark doesn't like to be the center of the action neither cares about the spotlight
>Long etc
Yep, a powergamer no doubt

>>46524623
>>46524172
>Superman is the powergamer
Hello, Lex, how is your hair loss treatment going?

>>46523421
>She's never really seemed even marginally intelligent when dealing with shit on her own.

Remember the time where she captured and nearly killed Batman, not out of personal hate of the guy, but rather to prove to the Joker that she could? Remember when the only thing that saved Batman was the Joker himself?

This carries over into the comics, too. Harley has always been shown as being far from worthless. She is, like I said, basically a female version of Bruce Wayne, only *intentionally* playing the part of the dumb blond evil sidekick because it's easier than the life she previously had.

>>46523938
Y'know, I much prefer her original costume to her new stripperific one...

>>46524172
No, Superman is the guy who by luck has managed to build the most powerful character, but never really runs him as such unless the situation is serious, because he wants to run a swell guy, not a god.

I.e., >>46522492

>>46524412
Well, they were launched as part of the same initiative. But otherwise you're right.

Too bad All-Star Wonder Woman never took off...

>>46524623
Yeah, Superman isn't a power gamer by that definition. Or any. If I'm playing D&D, we're rolling for stats, and I manage to roll all 18s somehow, that doesn't make me a power gamer. It just makes me absurdly lucky.

...for the record the odds of rolling all 18s using 3d6 are around 1/101,559,956,668,416. If you rolled 18d6 once per second, it would statistically come up once in 3.2 million years.

I wonder if anyone has ever done it in real life...

>>46522335
This just seems like pretty good joke. Where's the fucking problem? What are you people whining about?
You whine about female character being perfect mary sues, and then when one is written making a mistake and not knowing something, you whine about that.

>>46521324
It's funny how it's only pandering when it's not pandering to you.

You know, people are capable of learning new words, even superheroes.

>>46525395
>This just seems like pretty good joke. Where's the fucking problem? What are you people whining about?

The last panel in that comic has been shooped in, it's not the original.

>>46525395
>This just seems like pretty good joke. Where's the fucking problem? What are you people whining about?
The last picture looks like a shoop. Notice how Zeus is just Thor with a longer beard and different haircolor. Notice the lack of a background, and how Zeus looks a little off. That's probably not the panel from the original comic.

if it was, it'd be fucking hilarious though.

>>46525450
>people are capable of learning new words
That's nto the problem, the problem is the existence of the word "mansplaining" in the first place.

Then again, the problem might be Wonder Woman herself. Her entire character can be summed up as "feminism", which is the single most schizophrenic and disconnected ideology around. Even moreso than Marxism (though some would say the two aren't too far apart). If that's the entire basis for her character, she's bound to go full retard on a regular basis.

>>46525533
It would be, but it isn't.

I don't have the original handy and can't find it, but the short version is that in the original comic Hercules actually acts like Thor bringing up Zeus convinces him to calm down and that he's not acting right.

Though maybe Zeus in the Marvel universe is more chill or something, not like his legends. I don't know, I'm not terribly familiar with the character.

>>46520169
Superman was the groups "that guy"

>min maxed as fuck
>weak to magic but not really
>whole campaign ends up revolving around him and his enemies

>>46522751
NO, YOU WILL NOT SHOW THIS FILTH HERE! BAD FUCKING ANON, BAD!

>>46525651
Another one who doesn't know what that guy means

>>46525395
It depends on whether or not you interpret the scene as containing dramatic irony.

>>46520169
Fans like to claim Batman is Jewish.
Wonder Woman is now Israeli.

The plot thickens.

>>46525651
Batman was the That Guy for a few years in the early 2000s. Guy Gardner was the That Guy for most of the late 80s/early 90s.

>>46523043
>comic by her creators so it;s cannon

Thats like saying the beyond universe is cannon, it's best universe, but unfortentelty not canon.

>>46525983
Wasn't Superman created by two Jews? Aren't the naming conventions for Kryptonians kind of Jewish?

>>46525983
>Fans like to claim Batman is Jewish.
I've never heard this ever and the Waynes' graves DRIP with Catholic imagery, so... what the crap?

>>46525956
M8, I've dealt with more those guys than you can possibly imagine.

>>46526092
No, they're Hebrew. Kal-El means something like "light-stepped as God" or "lifted by God". He was also originally envisioned as a character by someone thinking about the golem.

>>46526098
At one point or another pretty much every single character in the history of comic books, including Japanese manga made by people who literally do not know Judaism is a thing, has been said to be Jewish.

>>46525983
Batman has always been a New England, old money WASP. The only JL member out of the classic lineup that has been claimed to be Jewish was Hal Jordan, and he's been clarified to be a non-religious man with a Catholic dad and Jewish mom.

>>46526098
>and the Waynes' graves DRIP with Catholic imagery
Would you care to elaborate? Though if I may play the devil's advocate, that could just be because it fiths the Gothic image of Gotham better than any other kind of imagery

>>46526146
Reminds me of that priest in... I think Peru or something... who claimed the Simpsons are Catholic even though they're clearly Protestant except in that one episode where Bart and Homer became kinda Catholic. Oh, and of course Lisa is White Guy Buddhist.

>>46525983
In the Spanish translation of Batman movies and comics, Bruce Wayne was (and still is) called Bruno Díaz. So I just assumed that he was Puertorican or something until I saw a subtitled Batman movie.

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>>46526146
>"lifted by God"
>Superman originally couldn't fly, just leap tall buildings in a single bound

>>46526163
>Jewish mom
Isn't that the definition of Jewish?

And since when has Wonder Woman been fucking Israeli? She's Themysceran, it's like the one part of her background that's ALWAYS been constant. How the fuck does her being ISRAELI of all things makes any amount of sense? She's from GREEK mythology

>>46526215
Only in the latin american dub.

>>46526188
Most Jewish cemeteries I've seen look exactly like non-Jewish ones.

I heard that in the Tibetan dub, Superman's a yak named Ranjang Ndropong.

>>46526255
Still better than "ONDA VITAL". Sure, we Hispanize all names (Father Lovejoy from the Simpsons is Reverendo Alegría), but at least we don't translate the stuff that should remain untranslated.

>>46526216
The thing about making him fly was because he had a series of animated shorts back in the 40s, and the studio said that animating him flying was easier than animating him jumping jumping

>>46526226
Depends on who you ask, but considering he wasn't brought up in either faith, doesn't attend temple, and doesn't follow any Judaic laws, you'd be hard pressed to consider him Jewish outside a very loose definition.

And WW was played by an Israeli actress in BvS. She's still an Amazon in comics.

>>46522709
Of course not, you think that A on her forehead stands for Greece?

>>46520887
>>46521900
The thing you need to understand about capes whether good or bad in general is that at the end of the day they're just guns.
Now some are bigger guns, some are smaller guns, some have strange ammunition or function in a different way but they're still all just guns, weapons, they point and shoot and the problem is solved.
Even the super intelligent capes just use that intelligence to replicate elaborate guns.

Then there's batman and the joker, these guys aren't guns. They're people, regular people who understand what makes other people tick because that's what they're really after, making people tick. Especially capes, who while they may have some trauma are all ultimately emotionally stunted, even super man who as a result of never having to deal with something he couldn't overcome has remained emotionally a child.

What makes bats and joker dangerous is not that they can or can not blow stuff up, it's that they can make other people either want to blow something up or not want to blow something up.
As is seen here >>46521972
They get into your head, change your mind, suddenly you're just a puppet dancing on their strings with or without knowing it and you'll never know if you're acting of your own free will or reacting to stimulus they prepared in advance.

>>46526108
Guys who got lucky rolls and play super nice dude that always trust his friends helps them, never steals the spotlight etc? Yeah, what a that guy

>>46526456
>doesn't steal the spotlight

>>46524623
According to this, I think Superman is actually the casual player, who just hangs out and miraculously rolled an extremely powerful character. Obviously, the tactician (Batman) is annoyed by this guy as he trivializes all the encounters with the challenge level appropriate for the rest of the group.

Imagine knowing the ins and outs of the system and trying to have fun challenging yourself as a level 1 rogue when some dude comes in and just effortlessly beats everyone into submission just because he randomly rolled some kind of retarded illithid lich wizard that just totally owns everything because "lol random rolls guys :^) not MY fault that the dice rolled this way!"

Of course, the DM takes pity on poor Batman, and affords him every other advantage in the book, like "anti-goblin spray" and "comic-horrors B-gone chewing gum", because not only did Supes get the illitid lich, a lot of the other players also rolled crazy vampire sorcerers, like Martian Manhunter by pure chance. Little wonder Bruce feels a bit patronized.

In short, DC's DM is an obnoxious faggot.

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>>46522549
I have a pic for that!

>>46526298
>onda vital
Did you know that was because in early South American translations they call it onda glacial? So yes, Spain fucked up, but only because South America fucked up.

Also South America called wolverine in some parts cuchilla dinámica (dynamic blade). Every country ever that dubs is bound to fuck up, fighting on Internet over who gets the best dub is stupid, because, again, both fucked up badly.

>>46526424
>suddenly you're just a puppet dancing on their strings with or without knowing it and you'll never know if you're acting of your own free will or reacting to stimulus they prepared in advance.

That's just blatantly not true.

>>46526474
Not on purpose, it's not his fault the GM makes the entire game move around him.

>>46526544
Batman is a bitter bitchy fagget, don't excuse him, he's totally a that guy

>>46526424
Batfag please fuckoff

>>46526584
I think we both know that the DM is actually Clark's girlfriend in real life, and that's why she heaps all these advantages on him. The precious thing doesn't really understand how the game is supposed to be played, but with a little help from the DM, things tend to swing in his favor. All the other players hate this, but they're kinda stuck with the group so can only sit and begrudgingly accept that Clark is the de-facto protagonist of the DM's magical realm setting.

That, or Clark is just sitting there pretending to be retarded but is secretly manipulating the DM through his dick. The ultimate power gamer, putting on a facade of innocence to further fuel his childish power fantasies, annoying everyone else around him. Whenever they question his motives, he just puts on his doe eyes, cries some crocodile tears and goes "b-b-but it was the dice :( don't be so stuck up guys, IT'S ONLY A GAME!!! :DD"

>>46526544
Using D&D as an example Batman would have something like four classes, 18 in all his stats, max ranks in every skill, a NPC follower with PC levels, every non-magical feat, and a few magical ones as well, and zero level adjustment.

>>46526617
Yeah, that's what Superman wants you to believe. In reality, Bats is just trying to play the game as it's MEANT to be played, embittered by the fact that Supes just shows him up every single time because of DM favoritism and then feigns ignorance to the whole situation.

I'd rather have a player like Bats at my table than Superman. Sure, he's not perfect, but at least he's trying. Superman just always picks an OP combo and then pretends like he isn't ruining the game for everyone else.

>>46526325
How does an Israeli accent sound like?

>>46526738
>he never read a comic in his life
Just like all Superman haters, nothing new under the sun

>>46526760
Sure, so it'd be more like Exalted I guess. But the problem is that while Bats has a pretty crazy character himself, he's still mundane and keeping to the basic ruleset. Superman picked some kind of crazy alien hybrid race that is actually just a god under a different name with ZERO level adjustment as well. (Or perhaps the DM allowed him to start with a level 25 character, just so he wouldn't hurt himself.)

I can't really blame Supes too much though. It's the DM that should have put his foot down and stopped that shit before it got off the ground. Now it's too late. But it makes perfect sense why Batman doesn't like Clark IRL. Clark may not have intended to roll a totally overpowered character, but he did and now the game is ruined. I'd be bitter too.

>>46526822
>equating players to their avatars
I don't think you get it. Superman is the dude's character. He's just ACTING that way in-game, it doesn't mean the player himself is a paragon of virtue.

>>46526815
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4sPsJirtCk
Strange yet weirdly hard to define.

>>46526815
Like an Arab accent. Huge surprise considering the vast distance separating Israel from any Arab speaking country-oh wait.

>>46526892
No powergamer ever acts nice, helping others, not stealing the spotlight, trying it's hardest to not use his powers, etc. No, Clark's player isn't a powergamer, Bruce, or Lex, right now I don't know which of you is the one typing.

>game about supers
>everybody has crazy amount of powers
>that dude who rolls a powerless human and complains about unfairness
Yeah, Superman is the one ruining the fun for everybody

>>46526940
Bullshit. I consider myself to be the biggest powergaming in my group and I always make it a point to help the pathetic scrubs in my group.

Why waste time outfitting the fighter with magic items when I can begin working on my phylactery or other suitably powerful piece of equipment? Because it makes him appear more threatening and reduces the odds of myself being targeted.

Worst case he dies and I loot his corpse and give it to the next shmuck that I talk into standing in front of me and fighting my battles and generally paint himself as the "major threat" while I continue to manipulate the narrative to my advantage.

>>46526940
>No powergamer ever acts nice, helping others
Yes, they do. You simply haven't met enough of them if you don't think so. In fact, some of them LOVE doing exactly that, just to show that they can. That they're powerful enough to be generous to the other poor little useless characters that can't be bothered to minmax everything.

>not stealing the spotlight
But Superman always steals the spotlight.

Anyway, point is that Superman the player is a savvy powergamer. He understands that being open about being a powergamer would just give people leverage to throw him out of the game. So instead, he pretends to be nice, and especially cozies up to the DM, so that any accusation of powergaming will be struck down before you can even say "overpowered". In fact, people like this are notoriously hard to dislodge, because they're not stupid and will never give you an actionable reason to disbar them. (Of course, good DMs can see through this, but DC is obviously a really shit DM.)

>>46526872
Strictly speaking they're both in the basic ruleset. Meanwhile Green Arrow shows up with an actual balanced and level appropriate character.

>>46523724
That'd get distracting after a while.

>>46526900
Actually Israeli accents are pretty different from the other East Med Arabic accents due to the European influences.

>>46527021
Very apt comparison really. Batman would probably be a rogue, while Superman is a Wizard. We all know how useless non-casters are in D&D. Sure, Batman can brag about his initiative and sneak attack bonuses, or his ability to pick a difficult lock. But at the end of the day, the wizard can deal just as much damage just by throwing a fireball, and open the door via a knock spell or hell, just blast that open as well. Being Batman is like being a level 20 warrior trying to compete with a level 20 wizard, who just has a much simpler solution to everything: Magic. Why even bother playing the game at that point? Little wonder Batman feels redundant.

>>46527084
Yes, except Superman should have had a level adjustment of like -200 levels, while Batman is just playing a level 20 mundane character. If your racials give you 99 in all stats, then that's not something that PCs ought to use, unless everyone in the group uses races/templates of the same power level.

>>46527216
Except everybody is playing something powerful as fuck, it's batman's player who decided to go all disruptive and play something that doesn't fit and them complains every minute till the GM has to come up with bullshit reasons to save him or make him win encounters

Thus us fucking gold, people complain when a dude rolls an Asian martial artist in a European fantasy setting, but in this case everybody sides with batman? Fuck you damn hypocrites