Warhammer 40k General

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First for First Legion

Reposting in the thread that isn't about to die
>>46472685
Once I fully modeled painted everything in the queue for my current army (1000 pts of CSM + 1000 or so points of options, could fit all of it in one list if I really wanted) I'd like to get into Tau

In terms of aesthetics I want to really model up the drones and make them the stars of the army, and that the fire warriors are the servants of the drones and not the other way around.

Fluff wise for the army, they are a cult of sorts built up around a learning AI that leads them to victory in the name of the Greater Good. The drones do most of the fighting and are considered ideal citizens of the Tau Empire by the cult as their ideals never waver. Still, the AI recognizes the need for actual Tau to service the drones, use heuristics on NP-hard problems, and bring objective secured to the battlefield.

Naturally the list would have a drone net formation and drones attached to everything that can bring them.

Is this a shit idea or an alright one? Will people decline games against one ghostkeel and no riptides in a 1000-1500 point game?

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>>46472712
Sounds like you are into it and it has to be one of the weaker builds you could go for so do your thing.
One Ghostkeel isn't bad as long as it isnt in an OSC.
Run pic related with a small FSE (idk tau can you do that? I would think so) or a CAD for more warriors and the rest of what you want.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3djktqezeav7dsp/Warzone_Damocles_Burning_Dawn_and_Operation_Shadowtalon.pdf

>>46472709
first traitors, more like

>>46472765
I was originally thinking of the following
>Getting Started! (box set)
>OSC (because of the OSC box set)
>Drone net making up the bulk of the points
>No CAD

but if OSC is that powerful I could run it and the Getting Started! as CAD instead with another troop.

One of the reasons it appeals to me is because it would play totally different from my CSM army, wherein 40% of the points is deep striking special weapons and pretty much all of the rest is in troops. Although the Drone Net gives the drones outflank if I recall, I don't see the big guns going into reserve unless I am really afraid of the alpha strike.

>>46472886
You been posting that a while and it still ain't going in the mega. I think whoever runs that isn't coming back.

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I've made a discord for the /tg/ wargaming community if anyone is interested.
https://discord.gg/0vhztUCQWDnS6zAs

>>46472665
>Space Marines on Space Marines edition
Just call it 30k pt. 2 already.

>>46473200
>Discord
>For a population that thinks being loud and repetitive are the way to win arguments.

>>46473200
i would say something about the mold lines but fuck man, some moldlines are either impossible to get or are invisible until you start painting

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Andy Chambers got fat....

This army feels like a terrible idea but I kind of want to try it

>Helcult
100 pts Helbrute
50 pts Cultists (Champion is Warlord)
50 pts Cultists

>Mayhem Pack
100 pts Helbrute
100 pts Helbrute
100 pts Helbrute

>Total 500 pts

Maybe bring it to 1000 points by a helfist pack of course

>>46473379
I've genuinely tried to get rid of them. I maybe just need more practice

>long awaited CSM supplement is actually a loyalist supplement
>even GW is telling CSM players to use the loyalist codex

>>46473603
Nah, they reprinted the BL and CS supplements with formations, that is the CSM part of this release.

>>46473630
So, are we taking bets on which book is going to be better? 5 loyalist skulls on the black legion

>>46473520
there's actually a tool for getting rid of moldlines, it looks like a hook. i think exto makes them but i'm not sure

>>46473630
That is somehow even worse

I think the anons from a few days ago had the right of it

>My chaos marines are recent traitors, so they use the loyalist codex
>These sisters lift weights, so they are S4 T4 and use space marine vehicles, so they use Codex: Space Marines instead of their normal book
>My Orks are shooty blood axes and all their vehicles are looted rhinos, so the shoota boys in a wagon are a counts as tactical squad
>My Tyranids have ingested so much Ultramarines biomatter that they are compelled to follow the Codex Astartes

>>46473468
In 500pts it -might- be effective, but even the most cursory anti-tank measures will give you grief; given the propensity for trolls to take Leman Russ tanks and such in small games, pretty much everyone takes some kind of AT, even if it's just glancing stuff to death with Krak grenades.

My only suggestion would be to go for maximum dakka and heavy flamers, and bait the enemy into charging so you can unleash hell with Overwatch. Put a Power Scourge on the 'cult Brute to help out the Cultists.

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>>46473693
>My Tyranids have ingested so much Ultramarines biomatter that they are compelled to follow the Codex Astartes

>>46473717
the extra spooky thing about the 500 pt list is that the mayhem pack HAS to deep strike

>>46473693
>My Tyranids have ingested so much Ultramarines biomatter that they are compelled to follow the Codex Astartes
thanks for the laugh anon

>>46473669
Crimson Slaughter was already the better book, It'll probably stay that way

>>46473842
Hopefully they don't fiddle with Crimson slaughter too much and just add formations on top of that. If they want to fix Black Legion though, that'd be nice.

I just don't want them to ruin CSM even more.

>>46473858
They somehow nerfed orks so dont get your hopes up

>>46473630
So it's their Waagh Ghazghkull.

>>46473863
They took out Green tide, buffed other and addednew ones.

As long as you weren't running the unwieldy blob of ablative wounds, PKs and cowardly warbosses, it was a buff.

>>46473863
I just like Crimson Slaughter because it's the closest thing to Legion tactics that exists. It's a free special rule for all of your guys and a decent bonus to one particular unit.

It's not the greatest thing, but free bonuses like that are always nice.

>>46473898
>buffed other and addednew ones.
Buffed what exactly? The cores are as much of a chunk as the Guard decurion and lock you in one type of list which still suffers from a Codex CAD without giving substantial bonuses.

>>46474008
Blitz brigade got +1 s on rams and gorkansugh kruskin krew got rage instead of furious charge.
One more that I can remember.

Anyone know if the eternal Blitz Brigade question was asked for the FAQ?

>>46474031
Oh yeah, those buffs were totally worth losing the green tide. I didn't play it mind you, I play bikes, but I still liked having it for a change or fluffy events and it's bullcrap cutting it.

>>46473693

I could see some Warboss who got smashed by Ultras finding a copy of the Codex Astartes and figuring that it was a right gud way to fight. So he goes out and gets his hands on as much looted power armour and vehicles as he can and puts his new "recroots" to the test.

>>46474091
IDD that the cut was bad show, but I prefer the newer formations, green tide was just a slow mess, combining the worst aspects of a blob and a deathstar into one.

>>46474091
Green Tide was retarded from a gameplay perspective. Green Tide should be rules for having tons of boys that buffs the boyz or makes it more difficult to wipe them out, not rules for a single giant mob.

>>46474031

I other change, if it counts as one, is that the Goff Killmob doesn't have to have Grukk leading it, though you can swap him in for the Warboss if you like.

Losing one of our most effective Formations (Green Tide) in exchange for the minor buffs to other Formations and the amazingly shit new ones is an overall nerf. If they'd left Green Tide in then it would be overall a buff, albeit a very slight one, since the only Formation anyone uses that got changed was Blitz Brigade. No-one in their right mind uses either of the other Formations that got changes, and as for the "new" flyer formations, the only one remotely usable is the Burna Bomba one, which no-one will use anyway since Burna Bombas are pretty shit.

Need some help guys. Does anybody have the rules of the Deathwatch Librarium on their computer/phone?

I need to double check something and I don't want to go off my terrible memory.

So people keep saying Tau are good, but, is that just for kill games? They seem to kinda suck for Objective Secured.

>>46474145
How was gren tide effective?
One unit of throwaway models would force it to charge and waste its turn or go around and waste it's turn.

Not even obsec to park it on several objectives and stay forever, again denied by a single throwaway unit.

>>46474171
Aren't they available for free on the Games Workshop site?

>>46474185
dead enemies can't secure objectives

>>46474185
Jump shoot jump, and you'll always have models on objectives, if the objective is in the open you park your fire magnet on it and watch the enemy waste two turns taking off a single wound.

>>46474128
>>46474142
What's retarded in a shitload of boys running in a shapeless blob? It's the definition of an ork assault. I told you I didn't like to play it either by it was a great counter to the current Meta and it wasn't even a top level one.
A buff to Gorkanauts that doesn't solve them bring shitty and a buff to a minor aspect of Bait Brigade don't make the update a good one. Only formation I like is the triple Dakkajet one just because its more Dakka, nothing else.
They took the buff from the Ork Horde detachment that no one cared about and applied to something that was supposed to buff us by A LOT in order for orks to be able to compete.

>>46474194
You're right.

>>46474171
Disregard this, I suck cocks.

>>46474192

Assuming you're not a dolt and play the formation proper, with a warboss wearing a Big Bosspole:

How is 100 Fearless T4 models possibly with a 5++ FNP bad? If you throw a suicide unit in front of them, they can so easily perform a disorganized charge at not only that unit, but at several other units, because 100 models can span the whole fucking table's length.

Do you like when half to all of your army is charged by a single mega fearless unit?

>>46474225
Because that one unit gets turbofucked by debuffs, is extremely easy to fuck over by charging margins, and does nothing other than provide ablative wounds for a warboss and some nobs,

>>46474225
It's a good concept, but fucked over by 7th.
If models in it that were not within say 5" of an active melee could charge as long as they were in coherency then it'd be better.

But as is, its 100+ models, 700 points with all the mandatory HQ and wargear and only ~20 will ever get to hit.

Orks used to have wonky rules that broke BRB rules, now they have wonky rules that the BRB breaks inro uselessness.

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So I haven't played since 5th but I've been collecting for ages and have pretty much any FW / CSM model you can think of.

I get that a CSM are in a bad place now apparently but I want to try and make a list. We play 1650 points here.

FYI I have like 8000+ points of CSM so I can change to pretty much anything

++ Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1650pts) ++

Crimson Slaughter Supplement

+ HQ (340pts) +

Chaos Lord (195pts)
>Daemonheart, Lightning Claw, Mark of Nurgle, Power Fist, Sigil of corruption, Bike

Sorcerer (145pts)
>2x Additional Mastery Level (50pts), Force Sword, Frag Grenades, Spell familiar (15pts), Bike

+ Troops (555pts) +

5 Man Plague Marines (185pts)
> Chaos Rhino, 2x Plasma Gun

5 Man Plague Marines (185pts)
> Chaos Rhino, 2x Plasma Gun

5 Man Plague Marines (185pts)
> Chaos Rhino, 2x Plasma Gun

+ Fast Attack (350pts) +

Chaos Spawn (180pts) [Mark of Nurgle (30pts), 5x Spawn (150pts)]

Heldrake (170pts) [Baleflamer]

+ Heavy Support (405pts) +

Maulerfiend (125pts)

Obliterators (140pts) [2x Obliterators]

Obliterators (140pts) [2x Obliterators]

>>46474232
How do they do that being permanently in and charging through terrain?

If the enemy lined his units up as tight blobs in a huddle maybe, but a single trash unit with 2" congaline coherency blocks a lot of movement.

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>>46472665

I fleshed out some fluff really quickly for my Dark Angel's successor chapter; The Covenant. If anyone is interested I attached a PDF.

They're a mix of Neil Gaiman's Lucifer with a bit of Halo's Covenant.

jesus.... 4 new disciplines for all sorts of marines.. except chaos of course. i wonder how that turns out.

>>46474357

I've never seen 1650 before; what are your thoughts on that point format? I'm more comfortable with 1,000 point battles myself.

>>46474473
that's a really cool design anon !
not a big fan of the battle cry but everything else is really cool, i love the idea of the chapter master seeking redemption

>>46474099
I always thought it was weird that Blood Axes copied the Guard more than they copied Marines. You'd think they'd try to copy the stronger Imperial fighters.

>>46474578

Thanks anon, the paint scheme is also really easy to paint.

Do you have any suggestions for a motto? I went with Pride of a Legion for the lion pun.

>>46474601

It makes sense though; Blood Axes would be encountering the Imperial Guard the vast majority of the time and would therefore be exposed to them the most.

In addition, how much could you infer or copy from the Space Marines apart from the fact that they're really shooty and have lots of armor? The Orks already know that those two factors are important. The support side of Space Marines (recruitment, making power armor, organ implants) wouldn't be advertised to the Orks the same way Imperial Guard uniform designation and practice exercises would (all an Ork would need to do would be to loot any dead Guardsman's Primer).

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>>46474473
"The Guardians of the Covenant are a Successor Chapter of the Dark Angels, of an unknown founding"

>>46473669
>there's actually a tool for getting rid of moldlines, it looks like a hook. i think exto makes them but i'm not sure
I know of it. I don't own one yet. I'm currently using the back of an exacto knife. They remain visible on the model even when flush though.

(Some are still there. I think the special tool might be worth getting later though for getting into tight places)

>>46474646

Yeah, I posted in one of yesterday's generals that I was in two minds about my Chapter's name. On one hand it's kinda similar to an existing successor Chapter, on the other hand it's a damn cool name and it fits my quasi-biblical theme.

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What changes would have to be made for imperial knights to be no longer considered waac?

If you could balance them, how would you do it?

>>46474608
well you could factor in something about redemtion trough combat , or you could use something biblical about the ark of the covenant

>>46474723
Moved into apocalypse where they belong and out of regular 40k

>>46474723
See
>>46474752

>>46474723
maybe, instead of allowing three, allow one at games >1500pts and reduce their blow up radius. The normal knights are not too strong, its only when half your army consist of giant walkers its a problem. I do not know the rules for FW knights so no comment about them

>>46472901

Those aren't the Word Bearers.

>>46474723
Max of 1 LOW per full thousand points, overruling FOCs, detachments and formstions.

Looking to start a Flesh Tearers army, I like the 'fuck it, let's charge' fluff.

Do I need a Blood Angels dex or is the Tearers supplement enough?

>>46474857
>non vehicle
this is going to be fun against tau and tyranids

>>46474728

This was my short list of battle cries/mottos.


>Imperator Vult!
>Pride of a Legion!
>Hear Us Roar!
>Redemption through Death!
>The Lion Lives!
>Death to all Betrayers!


>Call: None so low! Response: None so high!
>Call: The Lion Roars! Response: (Battle Brothers roar)
>Call: For the Lion! Response: For the Emperor!

>>46474834
>>46474845
>>46474857
>Imperials cast on a 2+
>Chaos gets this
Thousand Sons counts-as Blood Ravens is a go.

Finally found one of these guys new for less than $40 fucking dollars

Time to recast the shit out of it

>>46474752
>>46474783
Except no one plays apocalypse, so really your answer is "get rid of them"

>>46474882
>Call: For the Lion! Response: For the Emperor!
is awesome

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>>46474918
Whoops

do roomba's exist in 40k? and if so does chaos use them? and if they do, do they have those tiny stretched out human skin faces on the top of them? scootin around? picking up dirt? and blood and semen?

>>46474792
>>46474811
I was thinking something like that. Or turn them into mcs, take away carapace weapons, and d attacks, but give them some special rule so they're still fast

>>46474845
Its like Librarius Conclave but a direct downgrade

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>>46474931
If you mean the vacuum cleaner, the closest thing is necron scarabs (Both design wise and fluff as they clean the tomb complexes)

as a sidenote, anyone else having communication problems with best chinaman?

>>46474958
i want chaos roombas

>>46474723
All vehicle armies will always be difficult to balance since their gimmick involves ignoring a massive proportion of most armies firepower.

Remove stomps, turn it back into automatic I1 hits on targets in B2B.

Increase the cost 50-100 points depending on Knight type.

Make them choose between going fast and shooting.

>>46474919
yeah that would work just fine too

>>46474964
why? If you want roombas with streche out faces, you could make necron scarabs who have been remade tby these necron flayed ones that do wear skins of living over their bodies.

>>46474977
They are already shit compared to Surges/WK's.

>>46474941
I like it. It pisses off everyone. Chaos players will dislike it because it's garbage most of the time, but everyone else will hate it because of the one time it's utterly devastating. That one a million game where it forces a Bio-Titan or Stormsurge to gun down half his own army, or the game where a unit of Sternguard blows all their combi-weapons on their own side.

>>46474981
okay this is a better idea

but i still like the idea of little faces scootin around

>>46475003
>someone asks how to balance something
>"b-b-but then it's not OP"
Fuck off, retard. Surges and Wraithknights need hit with the nerf bat even more than Knights.

>>46475003
Hey hey. We are having a realistic discussion here. Comparing them to Wraithknights, who are agueable one of the most broken unit in 40k is not helping here.

>>46474363

Green Tide certainly had its counters. And you could get bogged down. But it could be very effective against many armies. Even if you do get slowed down as you footslog forwards, you took up a lot of the board and robbed the enemy of movement and objectives. You might not be able to claim them with the Tide, but you could deny them.

Furthermore Tide was brilliant against many things that are commonly very powerful. Grav? Wound me on 6's. Plasma? FNP. Drop pod melta? You killed 4 Orks, grats. Haywire? Nope.

At the same time it wasn't great against Super-heavy walkers and Gargantuans because of Stomp, and it could be badly slowed by certain psychic attacks or good old fashioned tarpitting. But it was a good option, especially for someone who wanted to play Boyz. Now the only option is Toyz before Boyz, which saddens me, not least because I have 160 of them sitting painted up on my shelves.

>>46475024
>>46475027
Knights are only a problem if you can't fuckin' play. Sure, taking more than 1 is a dickish move but outside of competitive scene. In competitive scene, they die like crazy, especially against haywire, broadsides and shit like that. Fact is, massed knights is maybe the only counter against deathstars and even that relies on rolling sixes like your ass was on fire.

>>46475031
you could ask if somebody would still play against it. I know I would, just for the fun of it.

>>46473693
>My tau army is water caste specialized on Astartes behaviour patterns, so they use Codex: Space Marines instead of their normal book
>My eldars are from craftworld hundred times more fierce than Biel-Tan so they use Codex: Space Marines instead of their normal book.
>My dark eldars have captured and enslaved whole Space marine chapter, so they use Codex: Space Marines instead
>My necrons are Iron hands, because their primarch is tainted with necrodermis.

>>46475060
>git gud
>knights lose to tau/eldar so knights are balanced

>>46475081
Knights lose to flyrants w haywire, knights lose to wolfstar, knights lose to a lot of things my friend.

>>46475060
It's not a matter of them being hard to deal with. It's that knights, and all big units like them, don't belong in standard 40k. Put them into apoc where giant robots belong.

>>46475095
>my army of superheavys is balanced in a 1850 game
>it loses to blatantly broken shit so its balanced

>>46475103
My point is that there is so much broken stuff in 40k at the moment that knights are the least of your problems. The new marine powers, even the three first leaked ones are amazing, Veil is broken tier already.

>>46475095
>losing to Flyrants with Haywire
Only if the Knight player is utterly retarded. You're looking at, what, one Haywire hit and an average of 1 Glance per Flyrant. Meanwhile you get to turbofuck the rest of his army, and give the D to any Flyrant that lands to stay in range.

>>46475102
Apocalypse doesn't exist anymore anon. What you call Apocalypse is now the standard way to play.

>>46475142
I for one look forward to Veil of Time making Hammernator's viable again.

>>46475170
i do not look forward playing against yet another unkillable unit

>>46475009
that one in a million game will send ripples around the world, gw will have no choice but to nerf everything chaos until they get squatted

How to balance psychic powers:
>Invisibility removed and replaced with puppet master
>witchfires hit automatically, blast markers rolls scatter normally or only d6 if you harnessed more charges than was required. Witchfire profiles rebalanced to reflect this
>single unit can only benefit from single blessing and can only suffer from single malediction at any time. If new blessing/malediction would be cast on a unit already under the effect of another, the new power replaces the old.

>>46475170
>A Rune Priest with Veil inside Arjac's Shield Brothers unit
Hold me /tg/

>>46475142
>My point is that there is so much broken stuff in 40k at the moment that knights are the least of your problems.
knights are the cancer that started the powercreep thats destroyed 40k

keep that shit in apoc

>>46475209
>inb4 erroneous claim that apocalypse is gone

>>46475060
That doesn't help the armies that lack meltas or only has them on units that are in range of the Explosions murderzone.

>>46475197
Keep invisibility, make it WC3, make it so that blasts can still be used against them, they just always scatter.

>>46475157
2500+ point games?

>>46475170
>Implying it's not just another layer of protection for the 4 chapter superfriends bikerstar unit

>>46475197
>>46475224
Alternatively, the effects of Invisibility are immediately lost if the unit shoots or declares a charge.

>>46475216
It isn't? When it was the last time something came out for it? Even forge world stopped releasing things for it.

>>46475261
>hes been playing apoc for the last 5 years
>hes too retarded to realize it
my sides

>>46475261
warlord titan?

>>46475224
Well with invisibility and shrouding there is design wise too much overlap. In fluff both play with the vision/perception and both are protective/trickery spells. In crunch invisibility is just insane durability multiplier and with blasts it leads to just highly volatile situations of crit/miss.
If invisibility is to stay I'd rather have it chanced to either like Veil of Tears, ie. shooting units must roll for their maximum range or like Holophoton countermeasure, where the unit would gain 1 or 1d3 uses to force single firing unit to only fire snapshots at them. And then change shrouding into some other spell.
Alternatively shrouding could be given some pseudo-invisibility effect in addition to the shrouded. Like -1 to hit rolls on all attacks against the blessed unit.

>>46474851
I also need the 'dex.

>>46472665
>https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
might be a stupid question but where's the nudaemons stuff? the wulfen edition is just the space wolves??

>>46475279
>Well with invisibility and shrouding there is design wise too much overlap.

That's not necessarily a problem. Several psychic disciplines have multiple Witchfires which all do more or less the same thing, just in slightly different ways. It builds a degree of redundancy into the discipline, so players have more of a chance at predicting what sort of powers they'll get even if they can't pick the exact ones.

Rest of the BL formations I guess.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321140-new-black-legion-formations/

>>46475314
>http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321140-new-black-legion-formations/
Infinitely better than Ghaz formations.

>>46475269
Yeah that was my point. Apocalypse as a separate way to play don't exist anymore because everything it had is now in the standard game.

>>46475272
Nothing in his rules say anything about Apocalypse. It's just a Lord of War like every other, it just cost a lot.

>>46475314
The Chosen of Abaddon will be the new "Orks hit themselves at S4" for sure

>>46475350
Are these viable possessed?

>>46475373
>Apocalypse as a separate way to play don't exist anymore because everything it had is now in the standard game.

Not entirely true. Stratagems aren't. The more extreme Apoc rules like Finest Hour, Unnatural Disasters, and Divine Intervention aren't. Apoc gives you a lot more control over when your reserves arrive, and obviously it has its own set of scenarios.

Really, the only things which have been ported over to regular 40k are Superheavies (which were in regular 40k for as long as Forge World was a thing) and Formations. Apoc still stands up quite well as its own spin-off.

>>46475314
>more random chaos boon bullshit
STILL NO FUCKING DROP PODS?!?!?!


seriously though at least its something

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>>46475314

There we go, all condensed.

>>46475157
That's the problem. Now that all the apoc shit is allowed in regular 40k, it has further stepped on the games already crappy balance. 40k was for skirmishes and small battles, and apoc was for massive battles and giant robot monster fights. It should have stayed that way.

>>46473520
Take an exacto knife and hold it perpendicular to the surface, then scrape. It'll take off the mold lines without digging into the model. And orks are perfect for practicing that, since a few extra dings are just customizations

>>46475406
Warband is garbage, Chosen is garbage, Hounds is pretty good, Daemon Engine Pack is okay, Cabal is garbage, Tormented is okay.

Overall, pretty shitty.

>>46475412
That's basically what I do, yep.

>>46475431
Cabal carbage? Nope

>>46475412
i file everything off lightly with a small file, that way you dont get the scraped flat surfaces you can get from a knife

>>46475314
They do not look that great. Minor buffs at best but alot of shitty mandatory units to take

>>46475406
>Chosen of Abbadon
>The unit is fearless as long as the chaos Lord is in it.
>Chaos Lords already do that.

Also

>SM, IG and Tau can use the formations in the supplement even if they don't use the supplement rules.
>Fuck you Chaos.

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>>46474857
>Non-vehicle
HuehuehuehueHUEHUEHUEHUE

>>46475301
alright thanks

>>46475468
Even more fun with the Taunar.

>>46475468
Best thing isn't even to shoot the cannon. Its to empty their D-missiles I think

>>46474537
Not sure seems odd I haven't played it yet. I'll post in this general or the next as I'm going to take this list out for a spin

>>46475438
Unless you're playing Tau or Nids, you're going to be hardpressed to find units worth casting a WC3 spell.

>>46475463
>thinking Chosen of Abaddon would be even close to balanced without the VotLW tax
Powergamer spotted.

>>46475314
Daemon Engine Pack looks decent enough. For starters, it reduces congestion in heavy support. And BS4 forgefiends sound like fun.

>>46475500
doesnt matter, you get to take MOAR sorcerers

>>46475500
Admech, flyrants, gravcents. Hell, even just burning off combiweapons if you don't have other targets. Yeah, it's WC 3 but you get extra dice from the formation. Doable with spell senpaitachi especially.

>>46475463
yeah basically, fuck you chaos, they giveth with one hand and taketh with both hands right after (mostly your money for being dumb enough to rebuy a suppliment hue hue)

>>46475527
BS5
does not change the fact, that forgefiends are really expensive and fragile and warpsmiths are not worth 100pts

>>46475547
also no way of keeping up with maulerfiends so only doable with forgefiends

>>46475550
well changing a mauler from WS3 to WS4 aint that hot anyway

>>46475550
no jetpacks, bikes or steeds for your tech marines or chaplains, fuck you chaos

>>46475543
no new kits ether, just repacked old shit from 10 years ago

vanilla marines have shitty old kits too

>>46475567
really? pretty sure there are newer that the chaos space marines kit

>>46475560
well for the formation you could put him in a rhino....
You should anyway, letting him stay behind is a total waste with his melta and flamer and ability to fire a melta and combi-melta together IIRC

>>46475575
the tac marine kit is new and so are the devastators, the assault squad are new but they really arent, it was just a repackaging with a big 2 handed chainsword.

the terminators are old as shit

>>46475575
tacticals -> new kit |chaos still the old
devastator -> new kit | chaos still finecast with only 1 weapon/type
assault maines -> new kit | chaos new kit
sternguard ->new kit | chaos chosen no kit

Greenhorn question,

When a model can take a "force weapon" but does not specify which type, how do you find out which?

Some variants seems way better then others.

>>46475619
You can choose. You should write the choice in the army list to prevent sudden changes and have an appropiate model

>>46475602
The new assault marine kit has nothing in common with the old except for the fact that both are assault marines. Sculpts are completely different.

>>46475640
also has base deco and more weapon options inside

>>46475406
Are these for real? Because I'm having such a boner for the engine formation.


God damn I had just put my Chaos on the shelve for sisters who I just finished.

Why boner.

>>46475640
still shitty looking though 2bh

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Yea it's a CSM release alright

>Black Legion Warband
Fluffy I guess, rules are useless though

>Chosen Of Abaddon
Gives you no upgrades really since:
you don't want sorcs or lords with chosen or termi's
Lord gives fearless already

>Hounds of Abaddon
Well slight buff to melee I guess but it won't mean we'll see any of these units being fielded.

>Daemon Engine Pack
Would be decent if the warpsmith could take a bike. Forgefiends are trash but I've found that Maulerfiends can be useful

>Cyclopia Cabal
This is interesting but situational. WK, Stormsurges to be targetted but really, both of these units are good because of their ability to shoot, assault and stomp.

>The Tormented
This should have been in the Crimson Slaughter book. Garbage

>>46473863
War of sigmar has some of the formations
There's a black legions sorcerer conclave that lets you take control of an enemy vehicle and shoot with it
Also stuff like killing stuff and buffing your unit or the whole army

>>46475674
>Forgefiends with BS5
>Useless


Netlister detected.

>>46475696

They are here....

>>46475406

they are shit

>>46475674

>Daemon Engine Pack
Would be decent if the warpsmith could take a bike. Forgefiends are trash but I've found that Maulerfiends can be useful

forgefiends at bs5 dude, this shit is good, mark that wraith knight for death and get preferred enemy against it

>>46475716
Cannot mark wraith knight
wraith knight aint a character

>>46475674
>>Hounds of Abaddon
>Well slight buff to melee I guess but it won't mean we'll see any of these units being fielded.
yeah it really is sad, at least they are trying but no amount of free run moves is ever going to make melee viable against the broken gunline bullshit 40k is now

>>46475716
>>46475700
Wtf meta do you guys play in? AV12 gets torn apart so quick. Maulerfiends are slightly better because they are cheap. Forgefiends are not cheap and need to get in close.

I'd rather take a Sicaran or Rapiers because forgeworld makes CSM worth playing

File: HANDS UP DONT STAB.jpg (289KB, 564x792px) Image search: [Google]

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GIVE BT NEW SHIT GW GODAMMIT

>>46475700
He didn't say useless, he said trash. Which they are, and 50PPM provisional BS5 isn't enough for them be good.

>>46474834
>>46474845
>>46474857
I'll be completely honest, I'm not even mad. As a power-armour TS player, all I've wanted for ages is to just be able to use all my CSM toys while being able to employ as many sorcerers as I can to be fluffy.

Now at least I can field as many as I please without having to butt heads with anyone over anal shit like using another codex as counting-as 3/4 of my army.

>>46475761
Hades autocannons have a 48" range. How does that require them to get in close?

>>46475793
36", not 48".

>>46475780
Once you've spammed those sorcs, where are you going to put them?

>>46475798
Well, okay, my bad. That's still not short-ranged.

>>46475406
Oh snap, I love my Forgefiends, giving one of them BS5 is pretty darn good considering their guns are actually decent.

>>46475804
I don't understand what you mean.

Quite frankly with some changes to my army composition I can easily attach a sorcerer to many of my units. Not saying it'll be competitive or even good, but finally I can be a bit fluffy!

>2/6 are essentially reprints of Apoc formations
>no new detachment
>Khorne is only god with support
>no options for the characters to replace Lords
Sounds like a Chaos release to me.

>>46475463
I already said it was Waagh Ghazghkull all over again.

>>46475837
Their guns are alright, but they are over-priced for what they bring overall. Also the BS5 buff only applies to one Forgefiend.

>>46475560
>>46475594
He should be Riding the one he buffs in stead.

>>46475850
See
>>46475851

>>46475866
True, you're right but there's also a side benefit to this for me. I can now field a lot more of my Obliterators with 2 free HS slots.

need some anti infantry dakka and i'm assembling a sentinel , what gun should i put on it ? is the missile pod any good ?

"Why can't we give Warpsmiths bikes?!"
>Warpsmith on bike with Black Mace with two pocket Maulers he can repair
>7+ daemon weapon attacks with Black Mace rape radius
>opponent is at -4WS
This is why we can't have nice things.

>>46475924
What do you mean -4WS? Lasher tendrils reduce attacks, not WS.

>>46475949
Brain fart, sorry. It's no Smashfucker but all the Marine kiddies would still get salty about it.

>>46475924
What bugs me is that its a strictly-BL formation. That means no vanilla CSM codex artifacts. No Black Mace.

When they mean "This is a Black Legion Formation" they mean the units in those formations must use the rules and format listed in the BL supplement, nothing else right? You can use them with anything else.

>>46475924
You can't repair Exploded shit.

>>46475850
I doubt Khorne will be the only one with a formation. It's more probable we don't have all the formations.

>>46475967
They get salty about everything that doesn't buff them.

>>46475991
>i doubt khorne will be the only one in age of shitmar, surely we just dont have all the information

>>46475967
Or they could just prevent you from ever getting to base contact by just shooting the ever-living fuck out of you with grav and whatnot.

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>>46475406
How strange, Khorne is the only one God getting a formation.
With free Mark too.

Very weird.
It's almost like GW like Khorne more than the others.

>>46475468
Expanding upon this, what happens when you take control of an Anchor'd Stormsurge? Does it shoot twice?

>>46475984
We might get lucky and get to mix artifacts like Tau Empire can with FSE.

Well, now that they shat on Black Legion, might as well wait for the Crimson Laughter supplement and see how badly they fuck that up too.

>>46476043
It should.

>>46476096
Are you Implying BL was any better before the change?

>>46476113
Of course not, but they could've made it better, which is what they failed to do.

Assembling my wulfen.

I love the models, but not fond if the monopose...

It's a shame because almost everything else 40k has been ball and socket or flat joint.
Could of let us come up with our own good poses...
And because of the torso, reposing would take a lot of green stuffwork.

Hope this is a sign of things to come, imagine if they did this for tyranids or kroot etc.

>>46476128
So, they weren't shat on, they just got two scoops icecream instead of four.

>>46476087
How can you? Formations with a supplement restriction can only take what's in that supplement only, no?

Here's hoping Crimson Slaughter at least has slightly better formations for my TS, but seeing as we got a Sorc formation here I doubt it.

Isn't like half the Black Legion composed of tithes from the other Legions? Could've easily had a small legion formation allowing to at least field a squad of cult troops with special fluffy rules.

>>46475991
You're right, the guy who claimed to leak them all just left out half of them to watch us squirm. Or GW is ignoring 3/4 of CSM players. As usual.

>>46476167
The fact that they actually went through the effort of releasing an update and failing to bring it up to a competitive level is basically shitting on them.

>>46475631
neat thanks.


Which one is best for a melee inquisitor, the Axe's ap2 seem grand but that +2S from the stave is tempting to say the least.

>>46476177
>cult troops
Are you implying there are other marks and cult units other than Khorne's ones?

>>46476198
I'd go for either the axe or sword.

>>46476177
Because the rules for FSE say you can. RG and WS can take from both lists as well. Not sure about Orks or IG.

>>46476043
Surges anchors specifically refer to shooting phase for the doubling of shots so I guess no double shots for us. :/

>>46476198
>Which one is best for a melee inquisitor, the Axe's ap2 seem grand but that +2S from the stave is tempting to say the least.

depends, I don't know inq profile
usually things that go into melee are Ini 4 or better
so if the inq is ini 4 he could hit at the same time as a marine
if he is ini 3 he would hit afterwards anyway, making the axe a better choice for that sweet Ap2

>>46476228
Oh right, well, here's hoping I guess.

>>46476209
I'd take it a mock but I know that's essentially what GW thinks these days..

I had my CSM shelved since the 6th edition codex but if their Summer 2017 update doesn't make them decent and there's no supplements that makes them fun, I might do the unthinkable and sell them.

>>46475984
Hahaha fuck no, you can take all the regular CSM shit. Besides you could run the same thing in vanilla without the mediocre buffs.
>no 4++ option otherwise

>>46476271
That update might have been pushed up to q3-q4 2016. Some rumours point to that.

File: fluffy army.jpg (456KB, 1066x800px) Image search: [Google]

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You all like pretty pictures of armies and battles, don't you? Some guy took loadsa pics at Adepticon, and stuck them online here:

http://www.feedyournerd.com/greggles-tabletop/adepticon-2016-warhammer-40k-singles-championship-photos

Although there's plenty of cancerous army compositions in there, I was surprised by how many people rocked up with relatively fluffy-looking armies. (But, as those won't get as many replies, I'm going to attach a pic of a tourney cheese army.)

>>46476271
>I'd take it a mock
It's no mock. I'm fucking pissed.
This is retarded.

Most people are undivided, and while Khorne is the most popular, it's not THAT popular that deserves everything and the others nothing.

how often do you get to use a lord of war ?
i'm torn between buying a baneblade or just 130€ worth of smaller models for the 30 year anniversary and i'm kind of afraid i'll rarely get to use a baneblade if i buy one

>>46476317
>Riptide, Scatbikes, and Wraithknights in the foreground
>Pod-cents and Skyhammer in the background
Excellent choice of images.

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>>46476317
Absolute goldmine.

>Tau players aren't weebs
>That wispy neckbeard

>>46476317
3 riptides
2 wraithknight.
1 void shield generator
NOPE

>>46476417
the dragon thingy in the background is kinda cool

The daemon engine formation is pretty baller for when you need to fucking murder your enemy's obnoxious special characters though.

Going with basic Hades you're looking at 16 shots with re-rolling 1s to hits, 2+ to wound with 1s re-rolled. One of the Fiends can also hit on 2+ thanks to BS5.

S8 ensures that any MEQ character gets instagibbed. With that amount of shots and high chances to wound, even with a 2+ you're gonna get fucked up. Sure the Fiends are expensive and yada yada but its not that bad.

>>46476315
Really? Source?

>>46476366
Hey man you're preaching to the choir.. I'd be a lot angrier if I only played CSM but I'm still pretty down about it.

>>46475923
would go for a multilaser or autocannon if you want long ranged dakka

heavy flamer for short range dakka, especially nasty on a scout as he can show up on the backfield and hit all the troops that are hugging cover, together. And ignores the cover.

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>>46476317
>WhyCantIHoldAllTheseFlyrants.jpg

>>46476417
Holy shit that actually looks rad as fuck. Say what you want about Muh weebs and neckbeards but the diorama looks really well made and so is the painting. Fuck, I want to see a good 360 of that huge samurai thing on the side.

I actually wanted to make Samurai-themed Tau or Khorne Berzerkers for a while now..

>>46476317
I would say it's one thing if say, he used two squads of fire warriors. Then you can fluff some bullshit up, and you're not a powergaming faggot. This was just a checklist for most bullshit stuff he could bring.

>>46475868
yeehaa. Can I get him a cowboy head. Please. Pretty please.

With a mauler that would be good, too. Make it the lasher tendrils do not affect him, and he can get into melee fast and together they have loads of AP2 attacks.
GW you fucked up again.

>>46476460
It was one of the rumour sites I think but can't remember or find it at the moment. Still, we shall see.

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>>46476490
4 u

I never said it wasn't skilled stuff, but it plays so hard into the stereotype that he either did it specifically for the joke or has no self awareness at all.

>>46476490
>I actually wanted to make Samurai-themed Tau or Khorne Berzerkers for a while now..
you disgust me

>>46476532
So that's a conversion or did he use a bunch of parts from something else? If he sculpted all of it himself, wow..

>>46475850
Now if that khorne formation wouldn't be total garbage, if would consider it.
Who takes berserkers? CSM are meh.
so its a free MoK for one unit of bikers and for a Lord.
Depending on the artefacts thats worse than the Juggerlord with the axe of fury from normal CSM

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>>46476536
Samurai Khornates would be ras as fuck, what's wrong with you? They'd all be essentially Suo's army from Valkyrie Profile. Single-minded belief in their goal, skull-faced red samurai who put entire villages to the torch women and children included. If you're "the enemy", you're getting skewered no buts about it.

Does anyone here play 40k over Vassal? If so, would you like to play with me? I'm relatively new to 7th edition, but I know the rules and have a good idea how to play. It'd be easier to list the factions I don't want to play/try out than the ones I do: Tau, DE/Eldar, Tyranids, Daemons.

Here's my Steam contact, Skype available on request:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/rigiddirigible

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>>46476317
>Excuse me, gue'la, I think you and your servo-skulls are lost.

>>46476532
the one sitting on a stone is pretty rad.

>>46473693
There was an anon last thread who wrote a bit of writefaggotry for the Ultranids.

>>46476569
Armies like that are the reason i don't do tournaments

>>46476566
>cringeworthy weeb fedora tier shit
hmmm cant say im surprised

>>46476585
I read it, I would prefer that rather than consume Ultramar they are enlightened by the spiritual liege and are now the last hope for the Imperium that is besieged o all fronts.

>>46476614
Guilliman go home, you're in stasis

>>46476569
>>46476592

>awful paintjob
>the most meta of meta setups

why even play?

>>46476614
That's even better.

What are the odds BT get to use the IF detachment from the upcoming AoD supplement? It seems pretty clear that we obviously won't get our own

>>46476810
They said successor chapters, so probably.

>>46476519
After the BL formations, do you really care when they release the next one?
It will be
40 new ways to put models with bad rules on the table. But maybe we loose the options where models do not exist. (Lord on Juggernaugth, lord on bike....) because Termi-armor lords are awesomest.

>>46475674
>Well slight buff to melee I guess but it won't mean we'll see any of these units being fielded.
How is a free Mark+run and charge+50% of having +1S on charge garbage?

>>46476810
Would be nice if they just let you use Crusader squads in the Gladius.

No free Land Raider Crusaders tho. None of that.

>>46476870
BL supplement can't change inherent points costs, the main codex can. Cheaper stuff across the board and buff to the units that are in the formations and they start looking hell of a lot better.

Still, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Praise papa Nurgle for despair and entropy rules.

>>46476876
This is /tg/ if you dont get your own riptide and scatterwing your codex is worthless garbage because the jews hate you and bribed GW to make bad rules just to bother you personally.

>>46476876
One-use run+charge that is not even usable on turn 1.

>tyranids recognize marneus calgar as their spiritual liege and accept the codex

now this I can get behind

>>46476876
because the underlying units are crap and there is no reliable way for the csm/bersekers to get into melee and do actual damage?

>>46476907
How would you use it if you could on turn 1?
No assault transports apart from lolraiders.

>>46476943
How would one paint Tyranids as Ultramarines?

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Hmmm

>>46476959
Ultramarine blue

>>46476906
But isn't all of that true? :^)

>>46476959
Blue with white and gold details.

>>46476956
Plus that. But it's still yet another stupid limitation on a "bonus".

>>46476876
He didn't say garbage, you stupid motherfucker. He said that it was a slight buff, which is arguably (and in my opinion) and understatement. It still doesn't change that Berzerkers and CSM are overcosted garbage on their own and that they still have no good way to get into assault.

>>46476986
[One or more words in your post was on the recipients filter list, please reformat and try again.]

>>46476906
No need to exagerate.
Codex Sm gets new psy powers. One of them is reroll ALL failed saves. CSM gets this. Guess whats better...

>>46476906
>>46476945
Ok yes, it's not a must-have but it's not useless.
Just the free marks is awesome.

And you should consider that we don't know the main detachment bonus yet, which is usually a better version of the core.

The only bad part of the formation is that it's Khorne

>>46477031
No main detachment. Only 7 formations.

>>46477027
See
>>46475851

And Marines are the Farsight companion supplement.

>>46477027
>CSM gets their own Librarius Conclave
>SM gets four new disciplines of powerful new spells to compensate
It's like GW is actively trying to get CSM players to switch over to the loyalists.

>>46476959
I'm going to buy a starter box soon, what exact paints would I need to make Ultranids?

>>46477039
Seriously?!

Wow that sucks, but now everything makes sense.

>>46477054
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_odi1c7ErCg

>>46477054
There is a Ultramarine paint collection and you should be able to get the MANDATORY ultramarine transfers on ebay, or in your club, as every SM player has a ton of them

>>46477051
>The Imperium beats chaos in the fluff by making Chaos on the tabletop so unattractive that it seeps into the fluff as a concept.
>regular joe humans all around the galaxy get offered "limitless power" by the gods and their servants and all of them just kinda no "eh, nah"

>>46477054
Macragge Blue
Nuln Oil
Calgar Blue
Etherium Blue
Drakenhof Nightshade
Leadbelcher
Necron Compound
Balthasar Gold
Agrax Earthshade
Gehenna's Gold
Runefang Steel
Abaddon Black
Eshin Grey
Mephiston Red
Zandri Dust
Evil Sunz Scarlet
Ushabti Bone
White Scar
Bloodletter

What sounds better?

15 Ravenwing Black Knights (including Command Squad) in 3 units of 5 and 9 Grav Bikers (including seargents combi) in 3 units of three

OR

18 Ravenwing Black Knights (including Command Squad) in 3 units of 6 and 6 Grav Bikers (including seargents combi) in 2 units of three.

The same list also has two Attack Squadrons with two Multimelta Attack bikes and a double multimelta land speeder.

>>46477071
What I've heard, the last formation is Abaddon+Bringers of Despair who can reroll look out sir's for Abba.

Anyone got some some tips for a space marine player? It's actually for my friend, he and a few others along with me all started 40k not to long ago and we all settled with different armies. I went with necrons, he went with SM obviously, another friend is doing tau, and the last friend does a mix of IG, chaos, daemons, dark eldar, and now orks cause he has too much money.

The thing is, the space marine players loses all the time. I know he's up against two of the best armies right now, but space marines are not bad right? Is he just playing bad? I've been making weaker and weaker lists to try to even it out but still end up dominating him.

>>46477097
Yeah, so basically just an expensive pile of terminators with WS5 BS5 that never get into melee.

>>46476959
Oddly enough, my google-fu fails me when it comes to finding Ultranids.

>>46477094
the second one sounds better, bike units of three just keel over

>>46477155
Pretty accurate, also I fuckin love Bruges. Fuckin fairytale town!

Hey 40K general, question for my steadily growing CSM army

Its a nice Khorne flavoured Warband in old legion colors but with lenty nice dry blood splatters(once I have painted them at least) with a thing for Daemons

My question is this, I intend to use possessed as well as Berserkers, and Currently my Warlord is a Daemon prince. Should I switch him out with a Tremie-lord in order to take Berserkers as troops, or just bite the elites hit and take berserkers and possessed as Elites and keep my Killy Daemon Prince?

I realize I could just NOT take Possessed, but I play for fun with my buddies at our gamestore, not necassarily to win... and I like to keep my cruch consistent to my fluff, especialy for my Chaos Warband

>>46477233
Play Khorne daemonkin. They got more Killy options.

>>46477233
There is literally the best Possessed formation in this thread, and it just came out.
Not a good one by any means, but still.

Also, Crimson Slaughter formation will came out soon enough, and they love their possessed, so just wait a little bit.

>>46475713
>what's the point if I can't kill it in one round

>>46477171
Yeah that is what I have noticed as well. They are basically glorified and sacrificial Grav Guns on wheels.

That said 9 Grav Shots can do a lot of potential work.

I think I will end up with the black knights.

Thanks.

>>46477027
>>46477051
Genuine question, why not just keep collecting chaos marines but use the loyalist codex?

I'm not that guy a few threads back saying the best way to improve a weak army was to ally a riptide wing on to them as "There's nothing stopping you!" but space marines are space marines, they have mostly the same stats and units and weapons.
Even avoiding the units and weapons CSMs don't get such as scouts, storm shields, drop pods and grav guns your army would be vastly improved by just using a different codex and using their formations.
Just by making the switch your sorcerers get access to divination and FOUR new power pools!

>>46476569
>14 models in the whole army
And the grognards dare to say 40k isn't skirmish game anymore.

So what's this Alpharius meme?

>>46477322
>why not just keep collecting chaos marines but use the loyalist codex?
Many already do so.

I've seen Night Lords playing as Raven Guards, which make sense, and Iron Warriors playing as either Imperial Fists or Iron Hands.

>>46477354
Nice try, Alpharius.

>>46477322
But the what the fuck is the point? Then you literally ARE just spky-marines. It takes away all the fun of being an ancient, aged, bitter cruel asshole with Daemons who can royally fuck your day up.

Yea, CSM seem to be getting pretty fucked right now, but they certainly aren't Nids, and can still be played competitively if thats your bag. I ain't giving up my possesed and Daemon Prince

>>46477267
I am not looking for more killy options, and I am not gonna change armies to Daemon kin, I like being CSM

>>46477278
Good point, guess I'll wait then

>>46477353
Because it is accepting defeat in a way that ruins the entire point of playing a faction. If I was interested in playing loyalists, I'd play SM, I play CSM because I like CSM specifically.

That and its quite frankly too much hassle to do some kind of spreadsheet to show and explain to each of your opponents about how your Obliterators are shooty Centurions, your Rubrics are sternguard veterans, your forgefiends are predators, the weapons are this and that etc etc.

Even I, a guy who defends counts-as to death, find THAT level of confusion to be unacceptable. It's unreasonable to keep reminding your opponent (and even yourself sometimes!) that the unit he's looking at isn't actually Chaos at all, shoving your explanation document in their face every 5 minutes. People forget shit, things slip their minds, and having an entire army in front of you be one aesthetic but have completely different rules is too much to keep track of.

>>46477385
>who can royally fuck up your day
>CSM
>not worse than tyranids

Poor guy, he's completely deluded.

>>46477437
I meant fluff wise anon, I get that cruch they can't 'royally fuck up your day', does not mean you should abandon them, or as >>46477434 says make things hopelessly conviluted

And last I checked Nids were worse, and have been for a long ass time

>>46477322
I do, I just thought it was funny that, as a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch player, they managed to do a CSM release that made regular Astartes even more attractive.

>>46472911
I stopped uploading because I thought that other guy, Rho mu, took over

>>46477385
Are you retarded? KDK does nothing but add options for a mono-Khorne player. It lets you avoid the question you were grappling with entirely.
>CSM can be played competitively
Guess that answers my question.

So I recently got a start collecting tau box along with a hammerhead as gifts, think this is a fine all comers 500pts list to start playing with if I get some pathfinders?

+ HQ (50pts) +

Ethereal (50pts)

+ Elites (165pts) +

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (165pts)
··Crisis Shas'ui [Advanced Targeting System, 2x Missile Pod]
··Crisis Shas'ui [Advanced Targeting System, 2x Missile Pod]
··Crisis Shas'ui [Advanced Targeting System, 2x Missile Pod]

+ Troops (90pts) +

Strike Team (45pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Strike Team (45pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

+ Fast Attack (44pts) +

Pathfinder Team (44pts) [4x Pathfinder]

+ Heavy Support (151pts) +

TX7 Hammerhead Gunships (151pts)
··TX7 Hammerhead Gunship [Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pod, Railgun with Submunitions

>>46477434
>using Forgefiends as predators
Of course not. Like counts-as like. FFiends are Mortis Dreads or Deredeos.

The vast majority of your units are identical in load-out to their loyalist counter-parts. It's not confusing at all. 5 page document my ass.

>>46477486
If I was trying to avoid the question why the fuck would I ask it? I'm not looking to sidestep the issue, I want an answer. If I wanted to play KDK I would, as it is I'd rather play CSM, and I don't play competitively anyways, I was looking for advice from people who make copetitive lists on what I should do, that ISN'T abandon the army I am building for another one

>>46477524
I'd split the suits up a bit, and probably do at least one as 2x Plasma.

If you don't want to buy Pathfinders, Marker Drones can be used instead.

>>46474723

have the community stop calling them WAAC. There isn't anything wrong with the rules, one or two of the forgeworld knight patterns aside.

>>46474928

what a sad looking ork.

>tfw even giving my chaos dreadnoughts those cute egyptian hats

>>46477553
Right, I guess I could make them solo in each slot. Must have slipped my mind since I'd read they are usually grouped into three man teams, I could just fluff that as they are, just spread out in the skirmish to cover different areas and objectives. Will one dual plasma do much even with precision shots? I'd have thought it would get shot off the board alone that close to whatever its shooting at.

>>46477623
>tfw I might finally get to put together my skeletal mages to use them as TS Sorcs
>Same shit with some Anubis-headed Warpsmith weaving the souls of the dead into machines
>And my skellies on egyptian hoverboards as bikers

I mean they'd still be boring to play but at least I can look aesthetic as fuck.

>>46475406

>the tormented

baller.

>>46476567
No takers for playing over Vassal?

>>46474898
It's okay. Not in the same league as Librarius, but how would you balance casting on 2+ with Spell Familiars?

Don't tell me you want casting on a rerollable 2+?

Kinda bummed they can't share powers.

How should I paint my Triarch Stalker? Stick with black, or use Silver instead?

So right now I have some Dark Angels because its what my friend had at the time and I've invested some money into it at this point. I have however come to the conclusion that I don't really like them and want to move on to another army. How do I let my friend down easy that I don't want this army, and what army should I move on to? I like the Ad Mech, but they aren't that great on their own. I was thinking of going to Imperial Guard, I like their fluff and tanks are great. I want a real tank since the land raider turned out to be a over glorified IFV. Any suggestions /tg/?

>>46477770
Not him but even though I'm stocked about it, its gonna cost.

To be worthwhile, the Sorcs need at least a Spell familiar bare minimum. An extra psyker level each to be able to take a power that isn't off the god tables is highly recommended (damn near mandatory for Tzeentch). Then there's survivability. You don't want a 2 wound spess marine around without protection, so maybe a sigil for an invuln, or got full retard and give them Terminator armour. Either way you're gonna be looking at something like... 150 per sorc average? minimum 3 so that's 450 points already.

>>46477901
>but they aren't that great on their own
They are a very solid army on their own.
Better than IG for sure.

>>46477901
>How do I let my friend down easy that I don't want this army

Just focus on being excited for the new army? There's no need to be like 'I hate this army and need something else'.

Collect what you like the fluff and aesthetic of. If you want to go full tanks, IG is a good bet.

>>46474723
+50 pts and stom #6 = S D. I´ve played a couple of games against it and 350-500 pts is quite a lot and without the possibility of instantly sniping all characters in a unit they can be killed more easily by TH wielding characters.

>>46477931
Sorc with +1 Mastery, Sigil, MoT and Spell Familiar is 140 points each, that's pretty much the bare minimum to have a Sorc be survivable on their own and worth something in the psychic phase. bareminimum for TS players using this formation is... 420.

DUDE
TZEENTCH
LMAO

>>46477931
That's basically the same issue SM Librarius run into 65 base + 25 pm2 + whatever else = 195 min for 3 pm1 libs
Vs
CSM of 60 base + 15 sf + 25/50 pm2/3 + whatever else = 225 for 3 pm1 sorcs with spell familars
In General:
Maybe if they get rid of the mandatory god-specific roll and only half max on god specific tables
Marked Sorcerors cast god powers on a 3+

And make three big spells for their Coven formation with the existing one being Tzeentch.

>>46477547
KDK and Khorne CSM are the same army. They use the same models, have the same fluff, and have almost entirely identical rules. What exactly is the CSM codex providing that KDK would prevent?

>>46478128
Dont be so bloody basic, you never take mark on Sorcerer since it forces you to roll on shitty god-spesific power-table.

Also sigil aint worth it. You also forgot the bike.

>>46477936
I only know Dunecrawlers are good, idk about everything else. Please elaborate.
>>46478000
Yea, I was thinking more along the lines of selling the current one. It's at around 2800 points right now and he's put a decent amount of money into it (bought me a scout squad, land speeder, vindicator, and azrael). I mean I bought some stuff for his orks, but I still think it'd be dickish to just sell stuff.

I wanna stay in the imperium cause I plan to buy an I. Knight at some point. I proxied one against my friends stompa and it was a good time. The Ad mech are my favorite fluff and aesthetic wise, maybe I could run both? Have Dunecrawlers and shit with just blobguard and some tanks would be fun.

>>46478136
Would be nice for some form of Tzeentchian-focused thing but I'm just trying to see how costly this would be using the BL formation. I'm hoping CS has something more worthwhile but this is a core codex issue. To fix things from a formation viewpoint, the buffs need to be ridiculously good. Like "Rerollable 2+, immune to perils and each Sorc has access to the entire god table" good.

How else are you going to excuse a 420 minimum unit that folds the moment you dedicate any sort of firepower towards it?

Actually come to think of it... Sorcs are ICs. There's no limit to have many ICs can join a unit, you can even make a squad of ICs no? So you can stick this Sorc formation in a big blob of Rubric Marines and gain tons of protection?

>>46478187
I consider MoT to be fairly mandatory due to me playing Thousand Sons. It's just one of those things you HAVE to do.

>>46478262
Also gives your sorcs a snazzy 3++
If only there was a way to give them rerollable saves, a 5-6 sorcs "deathstar" of sorcs on discs, throw in some daemon weapons.

Could have been cool.

>>46478262
Oh, well then. Cant be helped.

But true powerhouse would be Sorc, familiar, bike x3 in unit of Nurgle Spawn. Can take punishment due T6 and almost grav-immunity. And coming even close with cents open them up for Deceit.

>>46478328
I agree that is pretty baller, but Tzeentch is pretty messed up. Still, if I'm "forced" to play any other way, it still defeats the entire point for me.

>>46478307
Ah yes, 3++ , slipped my mind for a sec there.

So a 5-man Sorc deathstar in a blob of Rubrics (lets say 2 basic squads like I have, 16 rubrics). 5 dudes with 2W and 3++ flinging spells in every direction (each sorc can shoot at different targets), with 16 4++ meatshields that have a 24" AP3 threat range and pass LoS on a 2+.

It would cost you about 1K points though, but we're not playing competitively here. It would still be pretty difficult to budge.

>>46478146
Loads of units, some things are in different slots (CSM Helbrute= elite; KDk Helbrute=Heavy)
seriously just look at both dexes. CSM offers more and i dont know what IA13 stuff is allowed with demonkin. Among the stuff Kdk does not get
-Chosen
-Havocs
-Obliterator
-Predator
-Vindicator

File: Adeptus-Mechanicus-War-Convocation-Datasheet-5x7.jpg (608KB, 1228x1600px) Image search: [Google]

608KB, 1228x1600px

>>46478210
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Skitarii_(7E)
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Cult_Mechanicus(7E)

You can read these two.
They are pretty simple worded and will give you a basic idea on how the army work, what is considered good and what is not.

The strongest formation you have is pic related, but it's a formation of formations, so you can get there progressively.

You can, for example, start with the Skitarii one, maybe switch to a Cohort Mechanicus (which is a Skitarii+Cult formation) and then, in time, reach this one in the far future.

The nice thing is that you don't need to rush, you can take your time and have a solid army in the meanwhile.

>>46478406
Damnit, if you were able to run the Rubrics as part of the formation, you can gear out the sorcs even better and end up with a 1500 army that is 1 single squad.

Are Defilers good at all?

>>46478410
>maybe switch to a Cohort Mechanicus
Wait wat son? Cohort Mechanicus is min.1960pts army. War convocation is SMALLER than that.

>>46478523
no
they are far too many points and die too easily

>>46478574
It's a shame, the model's so cool. The only sensible way I can think to bring them is to call three of them soul grinders and take that formation, but then I look like a cheesing dickhead.

>>46478663
Yeah, running Soul Grinders screams "cheesing dickhead." Truly, competitive 40k would be a far less cancerous fuckpile if there were fewer Soul Grinders.

>>46478470
You can still do that
Have The sorc formation be your primary detachment, take an allied detachment from crimson slaughter with a sorc lord and and 1 unit of tsons

>>46478744
Ooooh shit nigga! Yeah, that's gonna be laughable. Seriously speaking, how strong or resilient would it be?

>>46478774
Unless you get Invisibility, not durable at all. Thousand Sons are still just T4 3+, so they start dying as soon as the dakka starts flying. Even with Invisibility, you're going to get mangled pretty hard if you go second.

>>46478881
Isn't there some relic that gives -1 toughness but let's you re-roll invuln saves? You could maybe stick a sorcerer with that in front to tank hits, since it only fails on a 2

>>46478549
Sorry, i probably get confuse with something else. Well, there are the two formations of the war convocation.

>>46478774
Invisibility, Endurance and That one spell offentlige sanctic that gives you +1 to invuln saves, so invisible 3++/4+ FnP is pretty durable.

Its a single unit though and most psychic shooting is 24"

Take ahriman as the ally sorc for more shooting

>>46478930
Yeah that the black legion artifact with a 2++/4+ dnp with rerolls he could tank quit a bit

>>46478881
>>46478984
Well you have 6 sorcs that have 3 mastery levels and a spell familiar, so you should be able to get it at some point. And each sorc can target different enemies with different spells.

>All them psychic shrieks and Smites.