EDH/COMMANDER GENERAL

>>46414976
And my phone goes full retard.

>>46414976
>Finally the year of 4 color?
Never, MaRo hates it. I guess PW commanders again, multicolor style. Maybe allied colors this time.

>>46414976
Gahiji list?

>>46415194

> whines about muh Nephilim not legendary once a week
> can't errata these cards that people only play in commander or make new 4-color commanders

>>46415197
In the process of uploading everything to tappedout. I'll do Gahiji soon.

Pretty much Naya goodstuff featuring tokens.

>>46414976
>have all the cards for my Gitgud Toad deck ready
>not going to a prerelease so I won't have my frog for Thursday EDH
FUCK

>>46415483
>tfw Titania can't use Toad only Toad can use Titania.

Princess and the Frog will be a deck.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/31-03-16-gitrog-monster-edh/

Gitrog and Titania present... but how many triggered by LD? How many triggered by wood elemental?

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>>46415483
You can use this proxy, anon!

>>46415712
>>46415648
>>46415570
>>46415483
I'm actually terrified of this guy. The turn he hits play or you untap with him, you probably win.

>>46415648
I'm against MLD.
Seeing as how princess and the frog trigger for your lands. There's no reason to run MLD. Unless your that kind of player.

>>46415832
How? Outside of drawing a few cards, or maybe triggering a few landfall triggers. It's not insane.

>>46415934
>any discard outlet + dredge lets you draw your deck
>skirge familiar for a fuckton of mana
>squandered resources draw a ton of cards, have a ton of mana
He's really easy to combo off with.

>>46415972
So 3-4 card combos?
If you are playing shitty players sure.

But people adapt, how many times is someone gonna pull that off until krosan grips start getting saved in hands.

>>46415972
>any discard outlet + dredge lets you draw your deck
Go ahead, find me a free discard outlet that will let me draw my deck with the frog. Ill wait.

>>46416015
>>46415972
Yeah I understand he may be easy to combo off of but I can't really see him being an effecient commander.

Helpful for any golgari type deck I'm sure.

Building Daxos the Returned, because I love B/W and I love enchantments.

What is some spicy tech that's not on EDHrec?

>>46416015
>not running City of Solitude and Dosan
Also those combos are really easy to assemble, especially the dredge ones. You only need one dredge card and one discard outlet.

>>46416019
Skirge Familiar? Putrid Imp? Volrath's Dungeon?

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>>46416019
>Play this turn 4
>Frog turn 5
>Discard Golgari Grave-Troll
>As long as you have a land every 6 cards in your deck, your deck is now your hand

Sure, he needs at least 3 cards to go off, but one of those cards never needs to hit play, never needs to be put in harm's way, etc.

>>46415972
>any discard outlet + dredge lets you draw your deck
Well, it lets you dredge your deck, if you don't get too unlucky or can restart the chain should it break from dredging nothing but nonlands in a hit. You only get one draw per instance, not one draw per land. I mean, recur a Praetor's Counsel and it's all in your hand or just go ahead and dread return combo (no narcomeba though) or anything else that can fire off from the GY but it's a bit of a misnomer to say you can draw your deck

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>people actually bought the gitgud frog meme

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>>46415712
Fixed

Lets discuss why green is the color truly ruining the format.

>>46417203

Ramp is only a problem because people are afraid of mass LD.

>>46417203
It provides creatures that are actually valuable for their mana cost instead of N/N for N+1 with useless "upside"? It isn't packed with removal and counterspells that have contributed to make anything above CMC4 unplayable in all non-rotating formats? It interacts nicely with every zone of the game?

Anyone want to help a nigga out with muh pestilence deck?
http://deckstats.net/decks/30661/458886-kill-them-all

I don't know if I have enough kill, please recommend me some more kill.

>>46417254
That isn't true at all. Some tryhard runs stax decks at my LGS all the time, but then some U/G variant just ramps, counters his blowout spells, and that's that.

The trick is a well-placed winter orb and some rocks.

>>46417520

The key to Stax is land denial, any RW commander should work, ideally they'll also be green so you can use crucible + Life From the Loam.

>>46417520
If Stax isn't running Tap and Tax as well as Sac, they're doing it wrong. You can include and get benefit out of Smokestack without Winter Orb, Tangle Wire, Sphere of Resistance, etc. but you're not going to lock the world with it.

UW or UR gets into a counter war with UGx to resolve 'geddon or one of the red variants. Or just Rx throw Obliterate and fuck your counters.

>>46417203
You mean blue?

>>46417716
Smokestack is secretly terrible in EDH, something people don't realize. It comes out too late and it accumulates too slowly.

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Building Kresh, and need a little help. I have oodles of sac outlets in the deck already, and the other obligatory sac benefit spells, but I'm having issue with recurring creatures. I'm kind of new to magic, so what are some good creatures / spells for this? I already have Reassembling Skeleton, Squee, and Tenacious Dead, but I'm looking for something to recur whatever I need.

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Me and some friends have been playing EDH on Cockatrice and one of them has been utterly wrecking all of us with pic related. Nothing seems to be working against it, from token spam to stax to mill-counter.

Anybody got decks that can reliably stomp an Omnath?

>>46415648
>the fucking wood elemental
You absolute madman. Dawnstrider is a cool card I missed in my own brewing though, thanks. Have you played with Planar Portal much? Seems like Ring of Three Wishes does what you want anyways a bit cheaper, but even then, both just seem too slow even with the ramp.

>>46417988
Portal is part of my "Default EDH" Package. Some decks can leave it off, but it starts in along with Disk, Ring, and any relevant signets. I'd consider cutting it, but the ability to just get my crucible, or just get my desert twister, or just get Constant Mists, or Disk, or Witness/regrowth, especially re-fetching something I've shuffled back is really tempting to keep.

>>46417959
Yeah, Weenie White land denial. Limited Ressources and shit like that
Or you could just exile and bounce the fuckers.

>>46417904
Eternal Witness, Hell's Caretaker, Sheoldred, Liliana.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-01-15-sUN-kresh-the-bloodbraided/

>>46417959
I assume they're using an infinite damage combo to win the instant Omnath hits the field? If they are, honestly you have to both run hate and protect it. RiP, Leyline of the Void, to a lesser extent grafdigger's cage will shut down most varieties of recursion. If the combo is tutoring-based, Aven Mindcensor, Mindlock Orb, and Core Set Ob Nix stop it cold. Leyline of Sanctity, Spirit of the Hearth, Witchbane Orb will stomp anything that uses the death trigger but if it creates infinite tokens they'll still be able to get you. If you don't mind cancer to fight cancer, Sigarda 1.0 locks out almost every Omnath combo since they all come down to sacrificing 5/5s

In the end, though, Omnath loves blowing up artifacts and enchantments so keeping defensive pieces is going to be extremely hard. Since the entire deck relies on Omnath, you can beat it by making sure Omnath never resolves. Counterspelling is pretty basic, with his mana intensity Forbid leaves very little that will actually get Omnath through. Going hardcore on mana denial with stasis and/or prison elements will also put him in his place since a good prison also cripples the prisoner's ability to drop Naturalize or any other way out of it.

>>46415194
why do people want four color , why not just play 5?

>>46419051
as >>46415194 I can say I don't even know. I sure as hell don't care, I just wanted to crush the dreams of someone who did.

What cards should I replace/add to this deck to get that little more out of it? I want to keep as few combos out of the deck as possible as my meta absolutely despises them which is bullshit since they're pretty fucking easy to stop Any suggestions?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-03-16-gisela/

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>>46415194
What if we get Allied colors along with A colorless deck

>>46419359
Colorless would be fun. 5c might be neat too. But wizards likes them some cycles

>>46414976
>>46415194
>>46419359
We're gonna get dual-colored decks, again. This time with allied colors.

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Allies are stupid as fuck and they're a dumb idea.

>>46419617
If you mean the fake wannabe sliver creatures, yes. They're just about the worst. At least slivers had a cool design in their first three outings

If you mean allied color pairs, fuck off, you're worse than the people who whine every new set for their special snowflake enemy duals like the color wheel means nothing.

>>46414976

Either in C15 or Orgins 2 I want Legendary monowalkers that flip into Dual Walkers.

B Sorin to WB Sorin
U Kiora to UG Kiora
W Ajani to RW Ajani
R Ral Zarek to UR Ral Zarek
G Garruk to GB Garruk(?)

>>46419617
>>46419695
This if it's the former. 'Ally' as a new card type means that the entire Zendikar block is jacking itself off while letting nobody else in to the party.

The design team should have taken a cold shower and then removed the term 'ally', and replaced the keyword with 'other creatures that share a creature type with' instead of 'other allies'. And then they just make Ally a creature type that makes it super easy to key off that

>>46419051
Do you even understand EDH? Its not about whats easier or already established, it's about being different. Basically it's a sophisticated meme wearing a fedora made of expensive cards.

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>yfw the New Phyrexia symbol is on Ormendahl's forehead

>>46420130
This is unironically why I play EDH. So that I can do something different just to throw people off their game, because nobody expects Kaervek deck to be good.

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>>46420318
literally just a line, no phi symbol

>>46420341
Naw nigga that's clearly a circle in the middle of that line.

>>46420463
Phyrexia fags are some powerful levels of deluded.

>>46420546
Why are you upset?

>>46420546
It's the NPH whippershappers too. Cosarnit, we didn't fight Urza and his Titans so y'all could point at scratchy markings on the incompleat and call them Phyrexians! Yer all too spoiled with your new-fangled 'colors' and 'infect'. Back in my day we had black, and maybe if we were good newts Yawgmoth would give us a little blue or red for holidays and we liked it!

Building Mishra to replace my Bosh since it has most of the cards I need in there. Anything I should be throwing in besides the jank that makes him work (Possibility Storm, Blood Funnel, Praetor's Grasp, etc)?

>>46421805
Nether Void.

>>46420845
Has crochety old inflection text ever not made someone look like a gigantic faggot?

>>46416317
Shut up jace-poster

Can anyone tell me if I run too much / too few lands in this deck:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-03-16-anafenza-the-foremost/
I only have 3 rocks and a low mana curve, not sure if 38 is the right number

>>46415648
Not wood elemental, use Fungus Elemental. apart from being bigger it also lets you eat the lands 1 at a time.

>>46422736
How many times have you played with it? When in doubt, just keep it at 40.

>>46423329
Not once, yet at least. Still getting all the cards together

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I pulled a foil one of these in sealed today

Now how do I make this my commander ASAP

>>46423340
You really won't know until you play it a few times then.

>>46423386
See
>>46416317

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>>46423386
>implying I'll share my secret tech

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>>46423386
lands are pretty good

>>46422233

Ain't that, like, real pricey?

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So. I have like 40cards ready for pic related because I have pic related in my binder. So far, it's all all clones, and spells that cast spells like Mindclaw Shaman and Counterlash. Now I'm not sure how to finish it. A few counter spells and cantrips/draws like Brainstorm, then finish it with what? Deadeye Palinchron? That just seems lame. Lab Maniac works, but I'm using that as a wincon in another deck.

>>46424979
Lot's of instant-speed cantrips, and then some U, R, UR haymakers like Insurrection, blatant thievery, rite of replication.
I actually just had an idea of Jori En voltron. Cantrip each turn to keep hand full and keep a low curve. Gonna test

>>46425073

That's not a bad idea. If I didn't already have voltron, I'd try that.

I'm thinking a wizard sub theme, since RU is good colors for it, and they frequently draw cards.

>>46425170
Will post first draft of list once it's done. Wondering if there's any way to make it better for multiplayer. Stasis doesn't really work nor does winter orb, as we'd be looking to cantrip.

>>46423386
Dakmor Salvage

>>46425170
>>46424979
Here's my current list, need to cut 14 more cards.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jori-en-cantrip-voltron/
I had runechanters pike and empyreal plate in there but I think it's better to run equipment that protects as well. I'm also not sure on the ratio of cantrips/counterspells/conditional counterspells/counterspell unless player plays x
I am determined to make Jori En work in some way

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I'd like to make a colorless edh deck.

It seems like it would be fun to play and rather evil and I could cause all sorts of shenanigans with pic related

for 10 mana he makes a shit commander doesn't he ;_;

>>46426118

No. He's really strong. If you think colorless has an issue reaching 10 mana, you have no idea how wrong you are.

That being said, I think Newlamog might be a stronger commander because of the removal.

>>46426118
Problem with NewKozi is that his counter ability will feel a bit wasted most of the time. This heavily depends on your meta, and what you have in your deck, but the odds of your deck and their decks lining up so that you can counter often is no fantastic.
That said, get each Tentacle Titan and try them all out. Newlamog and Oldamog seem stronger on paper.
Ramp is abundant in mono brown.
Just don't use any wastes in your deck, build it the old way of having all lands being non-basic, because there's no reason to play wastes over a land that has more text even if it is a mediocre Haunted Fengraf

>>46426118
I build him as NoFunAllowed.dec. Every oppressive "Can't let you do that" artifact, Kozilek's counter ability, Can't Even to lock off the very relavant 2, 4, and 6 slots, Chalice to shut down 1 which means if I'm countering primarily on 3 and 5 I'm good. With a little trickert I might be able to seal 3 as well (Sculpting Steel on Chalice + coynter manipulation). All Is Dust is astounding when it hits nothing of yours.

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In your opnion, do you htink there is enough good discard cards in magic to make this guy in commander more then just G/B elves?

>>46426793
Yes, notably sadistic hypnotist. Add in the rack, megrim, liliana's caress, stuff that limits their hand size

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>>46426793
>mfw I didn't know this card existed

into the Meren deck you will go

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>>46426853
Alright seems good, ill start the work on it after I am done with Scion I dont know what to make next.

>>46426854
I was going to make a Meren deck but I have a unhealthy obsession with graveyard/saccing decks and I dont think I need more.

>Marchesa
>Alesha
>Pauper Dredge
>Ayli/Atheros/Teysa,,Orzhov Soon

Having a tough time wither or not to add this as well.

>>46427110

I want to make a Meren deck, too, but I already have a GB deck that I love (Pharika bro here).

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>>46427367
>Pharika

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>>46427110
I ordered one just to put in my Meren deck.

Ormendahl is going to be fun times. More fun when Innistrad rotates out and everyone forgets what happens when Westvale Abbey is on the field.

>>46427447
Do you think it will drop in price?

>>46427110
What happens if you, sac it while Marchesa is on the field, does it come back a creature or a land?

>>46427483
Probably.

Like alot of cards, it's going to depend on how well it's used in standard for awhile.

The main reason I'm banking that it will drop is because it's Rare and not Mythic Rare. (there will be an abundance of them.)

>>46427399

At what you will, but I love it.

>>46428170
What's to love? She's disgustingly underpowered. What is even your gameplan with her? Kill your own guys and make snakes?

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>>46428231

Not quite

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pharika-build/

Just came back from a dominating session with my group. Ended up 3 of the 4 games using New Ezuri. Got told I should feel bad for using infect I don't even have blighted agent it was just Glistener Elf

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I need a janky shenanigans commander who doesn't necessarily win me the game or kill people, but just, does stuff that makes people think for a moment, "wait a minute what?"

bonusu pointsu: the deck can be played in a number of different ways so that it doesn't become predictable, keeping it's "wat" factor

>>46428538
Jeleva super ramp.

Pick only bad spells from your opponents.

>>46426330
>>No reason to play wastes
Ruination

>>46428538
Norin the Wary generally plays out this way.
Experiment Kraj has a ton of different builds that can all be quite interesting.
Sharuum, if not built for glass-cannon infinite combo, can also be extremely versatile and even quite resilient.
Skeleton Ship is fun, but not good.
Lazav clones is always interesting.
Junk elves, believe it or not, can be pretty unique too with some 3-color junk general leading all of the 1 and 2 color elven legends into a myriad of winning avenues at the cost of hardline consistency (but black tutors and green draw/ramp can make up for it.).

Have fun.

what would the best commander for a Humans deck be? I was thinking maybe the new Sigarda.

>>46426330
>Don't play wastes
Yeah, do, actually. Not only does it make the manabase roughly infinitely cheaper, but then you can do sad robot/extraplanar lens shenanigans to help out with your ramp.

>>46428900
Lots of people are going to tell you not to, but I'm going to make the attempt, myself.

It's gonna be pretty budget for a long, long time, but I think it'll be fun.

>>46429106
>>46428900
Just do human goodstuff, instead of tribal

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I was just looking around for more sac outlets, and I came across this guy. Does anyone have an experience with using him? I am really interested.

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>>46429818
I mean, maybe if you're running Green/Red it's feasible.

sacrificing 10 things is a lot of trouble though, I mean we're talking about Ormendahl in the same thread and he only needs 5 without any silly suspension. He's also invincible has haste and lifelink so, yeah. I probably shouldn't be comparing the two though.

Anyway, it might could work, but If I'm running Red with Green I can't imagine making a deck based on sacrificing around those colors.

>>46429889
It would be for my hazezon deck as a way to get him off the board. Wouldnt the suspend count down each upkeep anyways, or is it strictly based off sac? Also I was thinking for board wipes and spot removal targeting. Just for a bit of a fuck you to the opponent.

>>46429818
It's alright, bad late game and horendous against Mindslaver.

>>46429889
>and he's only five without any silly upside that means he won't be destroyed because he sat on the board for 10 turns
Do you not know how suspend works?

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>>46429889
Combos extraordinarily well with pic related, but I have no idea if that's even feasible in Commander.

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>>46429927
Even with those things in mind it's a lot of trouble just to cook a 9/7 that does nothing. I mean, If I'm running Red then I can think of 50 different things I could be doing that are faster and deal more damage in the time it takes to get him out of the oven.

>>46429978

>>46429986
Oh, no its not strictly to play a 9/7. I am just looking for more cheap ways to remove hazezon. I have a good amount in already, but I still seem to lack it often enough that I need to add more.

>>46430009
Greater Good
Birthing Pod
Evolutionary Leap
Goblin Bombardment
Phyrexian Altar
Ashnod's Altar
City of Shadows
Miren the Moaning Well
High Market
Momentous Fall
Life's Legacy
Helm of Possession
Altar of Bone
Barrage of Expendables
Blasting Station
Perilous Forays
Shivan Harvest

>>46427511
it will enter the battlefield face up. In this case as a land.

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>>46430413
Thank you for posting this. So much.

could you post post some black ones, I think I may have found all I could though

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>this card is 45 dollars
WHAT THE FUCK, MAN. I'm pretty sure it was <$10 a few years ago.

>>46431035
I remember it being a big part of Lantern Control in modern a while back, but I'm not sure if anyone even still plays that deck.

>>46431035
Lantern Control and one of the few cards that can stop Memedrazi.

>>46431173
>>46431216
I don't follow modern at all. What the fuck is lantern control?

>>46431224
You use Lantern of Insight and cards that mill your opponent one card at a time to lock your opponent out of the game by making them only draw land.

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I used to have a 60 card casual Worm Harvest deck that was a lot of fun. After seeing The Gitrog Monster, the idea of a Worm Harvest EDH deck got me really excited. Do you guys think overwhelming with a bunch of worm tokens would be a viable strategy?

Also, do you think this card is going to be overplayed by people? In my area, it's been getting a lot more attention than I expected. Is it going to become the next Nekusar? Is everyone and their mom going to run a Gitrog deck?

>>46431695
Well, every new legend is gonna be overplayed in the beginning. It always happens, even with Jori En, which isn't even that great. The hype always dies at one point, but Gitfrog is actually a damn good card, so I'm guessing that it will be played way after the hype has died. Kinda sad that he isn't white, so no Terra Eternal. Armageddon and friends are rampant in my meta.

>>46431771
Do we even care about Armageddon with the frog out? I feel like we'd be fine after a geddon.

And that's true about a lot of new legends being the flavor of the month when they first come out. I just hope I don't sit down at a table and see 2-3 Gitrog decks like I have experienced (and sometimes still do) with Nekusar

>>46431833
>I feel like we'd be fine after a geddon.
Drawing 1 card won't get you very far.

>>46431853
You'd need Crucible, and maybe Eon Hub to avoid saccing pepe

>>46431911
Or you could be sensible and run Darksteel Citadel.

>>46428900

New Odric would require mono-White but wow.

>>46431999
That's a whole different thing. It doesn't produce colored mana, and are you gonna sac it after armageddon in hopes of recovery? Crucible is however a must in Gitfrog. Sadly it costs strawberries.

>>46432418
Crucible of Worlds doesn't keep Pepe alive after Armageddon because you don't get a chance to play a land before he dies. Run dumb shit like Crop Rotation to grab Citadel in response. Crop Rotation basically says pay G at instant speed to draw 2 cards.

>>46432431
I know that. That's why I said Eon Hub would be a okay. Crucible is just super good with him too. Imagine Strip Mining someone twice per turn and getting 2 cards as a reward for that.

>>46428345
That's a very creative way of justifying your commander choice.
I've seen a similar build using a few lure effects but I don't think it's as burial as livingplane.dec

>>46428538
Second norin the wary
And id like to add that choas decks without a way of winning are boring and will make people hate you more than winning on t3.

>>46433797

Thanks.

I will be the first to admit that she's not the stronkest commander, but the deck works. It works well with itself, and its "fair" because to my knowledge, there are no infinite combos, and the MLD frequently kills people because Massacre Wurm a best. On top of all that, having a bad Night Soil in the command zone is remarkably useful sometimes. I like giving people snakes to block big shit I don't like, and the threat of a DT blocker on my side is generally enough to keep my Planeswalkers alive a little longer.

>>46421805
How are you planning to play praetor's grasp in U/R

>>46431853
Ah shit, you're right. I keep forgetting that.

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>>46434550

>Mishra
>UR
>not black

>>46435184
Oh he is grixis? I see Mishra so rarely and only played against one once so i thought he was izzet.
Of course praetor's grasp is an auto include then.

Any red tech for gitgud monster? I want to use things like Borb and Seismic Assault. I'll probably use Shattergang as the commander.

Can we stop this mishra meme before it gets out of hand?
NO talking about mishra
NO replying to mishra posters
NO entertaining "but it combos with possibility storm" mishra sympathizers
Report ALL mishra posts

I got a promo Odric yesterday and I want to build a deck off of him?
What are some prime cards to go along with him?

>>46431695
Any time I build a newish comander, I worry about it becoming a meme commander. I made an Aurelia deck back when she came out, and I was just a drop in a sea of Aurelia decks. Now I have to remind people of what she does. I feel like once the newness wears out, the turds who just build whatever is hip and new will have moved on to something else, and the people who legitimately wanted to build and keep it will still be piloting and tweaking them, and there are usually significantly less of the latter.

Especially with the fact that the Gitrog Monster makes you sac your own lands, I feel like some of the turds will be put off by that and not build it long, if at all.

>>46420057
Ally in terms of Zendikar means DnD style adventurer or party member.

That's why only Zendikar gets them. It is a very specific concept.

>>46436418
Just because an attempt is made to justify something, doesn't mean it's right.

>>46416225

Your deck is now your graveyard you mean

The only cards in your hand are Dredgers

>>46436448
If they could fit the word Adventurer in so many textboxes, they would.

What's wrong with allies anyway? They are a tribe like anything else.

If they made it shared creature type, then you'd have Tuktuk Scrapper deal thirty damage in goblin decks and what not.

>>46422600

>Have rhetorical questions ever not made somebody look like a huge faggot?

>>46436553
Some creature types you don't want interacting much. Eldrazi, for instance. I'm amazed that Eldrazi winter ever happened, considering that with such a limited creature type, someone should have seen it coming.

However, allies have the problem that they can't do anything outside their block, and the fact that they share a world with Eldrazi means the entire set is worthless unless you play it with itself. The fact that they're a tribe doesn't mean too much, but the fact that all of their abilities specifically make mention of the word 'ally' limit what they can do.

Human tribal is a big thing on Innistrad, and lots of cards use the word 'human' in their rules text. However, lots of sets actually have humans in them, so if you really wanted to, you could make a U/G Human deck based on Shards of Alara, Innistrad, and Ravnica stuff.

Ally exists exclusively on Zendikar, meaning that if you want to make the Ally cards useful, you must build an Ally deck. That's fine, Eldrazi are the same way, but Eldrazi and Allies are in the same block, effectively making the entire thing insular with itself and nobody else.

It makes the entire thing a colossal waste of time in the long run.

>>46428786

What on earth is fun about skeleton ship?

Have you actually played it?

People seem to confuse "cute" or "quirky" with fun

Like I'm sure your skeleton tribal deck list looks nice to run through, but actually playing the game with a 5 drop commander that doesn't do a whole lot is actually not fun at all

>>46436653
But allies are still very popular. Sure, it isn't as fun or unique as other tribes since they all kind of do one thing, but it isn't like a problem.

Plus, there are a few allies worth running outside of Ally tribal and as far as I can tell, Rally as a mechanic was designed to allow for more of that, seeing as it affects all creatures rather than just allies.

>>46426793

He's excellent for stax. Be prepared to have everyone hate you, though.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-deckbox-smells-of-rich-mahogany/

>>46436760
Rally is one half of the problem, the other half is 'tap and untapped Ally you control'.

They trigger using Allies and only allies. Or are you going to tell me that you're willing to pay for a creature that's going to do something for a turn at sorcery speed and becomes a small body afterward? Or tap abilities that do nothing?

>>46415972
Can you explain how this works to me, please?

>>46436782

This list confuses me

Like you spent top dollar on these 20 year old stax cards that are just going to force everybody to gang up on you

>>46436844
I mean, I've run worse cards than Tuktuk Scrapper, Lantern Scout and Resolute Blademaster.

As for the tap abilities, yeah, cohort is a tribal mechanic. But outside of EDH, I could see running some cohort cards as x4 with no other allies.

My friend used to run Blightspeaker in a deck with no other rebels. It happens.

>>46414976
>http://gatherer.com
At what point did this get changed to a link that doesn't work?

>>46436923
The issue comes mostly from the fact that the entire block is centred around two insular tribes, one far and away stronger than the other being mostly irrelevant.

Eldrazi and Allies shouldn't have shared space, mechanically. I get it thematically, but it just doesn't work.

>>46436913
The idea is that nobody will have much of anything to use against him.

>>46436898

Gitrog in play plus discard outlet such as skirge familiar and dredgers in the graveyard

Discard a land card with skirge, draw a card for gitrog, but dredge that draw instead

Presumably you will dredge at least 1 land, so you will draw again for gitrog, if you have a dredger in your grave, dredge that, if not, respond to the draw by discarding the dredger you just dredged

Then just repeat until your game winning graveyard combo is in the graveyard, you'll most likely have mana floating

>>46436653
Changelings!

>>46436999
>Presumably you will dredge at least 1 land
Isn't that a bit unreliable and clunky?

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>>46436988
Admittedly, had they kept the cheapest colorless eldrazi creature 8 mana, things would've been a bit different. Whoops, who knew, right?

I do like devoid, even if it is frustrating as a deckbuilder.

Like, this shit would've been perfect for Lyzolda, except devoid, whoo.

>>46437059
I'm not a modern player, so I'm not going to bitch about how Eldrazi were designed. In fact they're great when contrasted with their opposition.

Devoid is neat, and thoroughly screws with people, and it makes all those lands that generate colorless mana far more interesting to use.

>>46437053

It depends on your dredger, if you're dredging 5 or 6 every time, the odds are in your favor

Not to mention if you started the combo with a couple lands in your hand you can keep going even if one of your dredges misses

It's fairly reliable in a vacuum but there's no question it's weak to graveyard hate

>>46437118
Here's another minor complaint:

http://magiccards.info/query?q=t%3Aeldrazi+-t%3Adrone+-t%3Aprocessor&v=card&s=cname

So, before, every small eldrazi was a eldrazi drone. The singular creature type "Eldrazi" was reserved for the big stuff, supposedly the "real" Eldrazi.

The thing is, for the most part, they kept true to their word. But about 10 of the "EldrazI" are clearly supposed to be drones, but aren't.

By the way, Drone tribal got a big boost with BFZ and Oath.

>>46416083
starfield of nyx
but as a serious answer, I'd say go spirit tribal or atleast spirit token tribal
throw in
Benevolent offering
Custodi soulbinders
devouring greed
gallows warden
long-forgotten gohei
seance

>>46436718
And some people confuse winning with fun.

>He doesn't run Legends legends at the helm of a goodstuff deck when playing with scrubs/randoms

I get that you want to win, dude. But if you don't necessarily know what power level the table will be at why not just fuck around?

>>46436364
The fact that he requires a bunch of fetches and Crucible should also serve as a paywall for flavor of the week deckbuilders.

>>46437128
Yeah, that's fair. I just don't see him as the go to combo general that some people seem to think he is.

He seems better winning through incremental advantage. But maybe that's just my playstyle.

>>46437259

i never claimed winning = fun

i fully support anybody who wants to make a deck that does something really really awesome but rarely wins

but most of the Legends legends dont do anything interesting or fun, they all have a completely boring and totally underwhelming ability, i.e. skelly ship

>>46437370
>should also serve as a paywall for flavor of the week deckbuilders.

At the risk of sounding like a hipster twat, I actually find this to be a good thing.

>>46437380

>He seems better winning through incremental advantage. But maybe that's just my playstyle.

lots of stuff that combos with him happens to generate incremental advantage too though, dredgers are just good value in a black-green graveyard deck

you're going to want discard outlets to trigger the toad for incremental value anyway

he's one of those commanders that just accidentally combos, kinda like ghave. you can build a ghave deck without any infinite combos but you will have had to remove cards that are amazing in ghave regardless of whether they are part of a combo (altars, etc)

the toad is the same way i think, eventually the stuff you want to do with him will just accelerate into an combo in the late game

>>46437407
Some people enjoy building theme decks that are more heavily based on flavor rather than mechanical theme.

At the very least, Skeleton Ship isn't vanilla, so you can do a bit of -1/-1 counter stuff or some "island matters" stuff.

>>46430413
Thanks man. I am in love with Altar of Bone and Helm of Possession. Gonna add them as soon as I can.

>>46437146
I kind of want to build an Esper spirit deck so I can use Innistrad WU spirits along with Orzhov stuff (and Kamigawa, but Kamigawa gives you spirits for any color combo), but there aren't any tribally appropriae commanders, and Esper legends tend to be very far to one end of the archenemy (Sharuum, Oloro, Zur) to trash (Halfdane, Dromar, Chromium) spectrum.

>>46437480
I haven't actually played much graveyard combo. What are some game enders for when you actually do get your deck into your graveyard?

>>46437493

thats why i said im sure your flavorful skelly ship deck is cool to look at the decklist

i just dont see whats fun about PLAYING with a deck that has no value outside of flavor

especially when you consider that magic flavor is really sketchy in game (emrakul dies to 15 squirrels? deranged hermit makes your squirrels as powerful as bears?)

not to mention people who make theme decks arent exactly doing anything creatively flavorful, they jsut found all the playable cards with the right words in their card name or creature types on their type line, that shit dont interest me at all and i dont know why it interests anybody

>>46437695

living death
necrotic ooze combos
yawgmoth's will

>>46437769
How do you get those in your hand from your graveyard?

>>46437695
Necrotic Ooze combo, Mass reanimation (Living Death, Twilight's Call, etc.), Mortal Combat if you're really not afraid of gravehate, Jarad+ Lord of Extinction.
I'm thinking of swapping Gitgud into the command slot of my Jarad deck and moving Jarad to the 99, though I'd have to get more fetches to make him really good.

>>46437794

when your library is in your graveyard, you can usually fenagle out some creatures like reassembling skeleton or bloodghast and power out a dread return on eternal witness for living death, or necrotic ooze to just win the game if your deck is built right

ive never seen a graveyard combo deck fizzle after putting its whole library into its graveyard, but i admit im not an expert on all the little tricks they use to make it consistent

>>46437794
Dread Return (+Eternal Witness if you need a noncreature)
Or having any reanimation spell or regrowth effect in hand when you start to go for your combo turn.

>>46437059
You can run it in Lyzolda though, it's still got a black colour identity. I really don't understand how so many people don't understand how devoid or the colourless mana symbol work.

>>46437865
>>46437897
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you. It does seem like you do have to dedicate some specific cards to make stuff work though. I don't see him accodentally comboing off as badly as Ghave does.

>>46437059

im not sure how you became so confused as to think a colorless card cant be run in your red black deck

like this has nothing to do with any special rules

even when you add the confusion of the commander color identiy rules, does the card have any colored mana symbols that arent part of lyzolda's color identity?

>>46437918
Yeah, but saccing it to her doesn't trigger her draw effect.

>>46438036

why would you sac it to lyzolda anyway though?

>>46437733
They think of the game in different terms. Maybe they actually imagine the battlefield while playing and enjoy thinking of skeleton swarms descending onto a barbarian.

A deck where flavor comes over mechanics tends to be a relaxing deck to play, as you aren't obsessed with getting something online or winning or really much of anything. You can chill, relax, talk about stuff, announce your creatures, etc.

>>46437865
Its rather safe because there's three cards that can wipe a yard without broadcasting themselves: Jund Charm, Rakdos Charm, and Ravenous Trap. Oh, and maybe Burn Away or Crop Rotation->Bojuka Bog if we're feeling generous. Since nobody is hopefully stupid enough to flip their deck with a Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus on the board, if you can dodge sorcery-speed mass responses, you're good.

There's stuff like Scooze to target key cards, but I don't think they see as much play.

>>46438029
>>46437918
You guys are dumb, did you look at Lyzolda? Her ability cares about Red or Black creatures.

>>46438036
>>46438049
You sac all kinds of shit to Lyzolda. Sometimes, that's the best thing you can do with a creature, even a big one.

>>46438127

>You sac all kinds of shit to Lyzolda. Sometimes, that's the best thing you can do with a creature, even a big one.

you claimed that the devoid card would be "perfect" for lyzolda if it wasnt devoid, and im saying to you, most of the card's value lies in it being on the field when you sac OTHER creatures , so i dont think the card would even be better for lyzolda if it wasnt devoid

>>46437733

>I don't like it so how could anybody

Dude, I know the word gets thrown around a lot but, this is autism.

>>46438116
>There's stuff like Scooze to target key cards, but I don't think they see as much play.

Really? Is targeted grave hate not heavily prevalent in most people's metas?

>>46438217

i guess im autistic then

its not like im questioning something purely subjective here, im questioning why people think its creative or flavorful to make theme decks when objectively, the flavor is lacking and the creativity is non-existent

>>46438224

i think hes just saying he sees tormod's crypt and rest in peace more than scavening ooze, which is true for me too

i really like the scooze though

>>46438116
>>46438224
Scuze and Bog are the most prevalent gravehate in my meta. Angel of Finality gets run in White (nobody wants to give up Sun Titan abuse for RIP), and one of my decks uses Rakdos Charm (seriously, that card is awesome, and probably the only charm I've run in EDH that I have used every mode of).

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How do I meme with pic related?

>>46438199
Sometimes, you have two cards on the board, Lyzolda and this guy and need two cards.

... I admit, you could just sac Lyzolda and draw to cards, but, you know.

Fine, I probably should find a slot for him. I honestly have a lot of things I need to find slots for. I am not running Zula port for example. Shit needs to be rectified.

>>46438452

U/G landfall

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>>46438367
I actually use every mode of boros charm quite often. The diublestrike and indestructability are obvious, but the 4 to the dome kills planeswalkers easily and finishes people off quite often.

>>46438500

zulaport cutthroat is pretty sweet

>>46438270

My best answer to that is actually still "autism".
I don't disagree that something like 60skellingtons40land.dec is terribly uninspired, but what can you do? Perhaps they find it exciting because they find skellingtons exciting by their very nature; a bit like sonic fans?

>>46438270
>objectively
>proceeds with opinions

>>46438452
Remember that it is any instant or sorcery, not just yours. Dreamscape Artist is a solid ramper for your colors other than the obvious colorless cards.

Some landfall could be fun, since you will be bouncing shit. Like that Guardian of Tazeem. You like jank, right?

Quicksilver Fountain is good if you can keep bouncing one of your nonbasics to keep everything an island.

>>46438510
To be fair, I've never played a Boros colored EDH deck, but Boros Charm is also very good.

>>46438603
>>46438367
Bant Charm is still pretty spectacular, even after the tuck change rule.

Though, I've basically given up on three color decks. I am tired of being mana screwed.

>>46438575

>implying its not a fact that theme decks aren't creative

creative: relating to or involving the imagination or original ideas

theme decks arent creative

fact: magic's flavor mostly doesnt hold up on examination, no intelligent person denies this, its obvious that the game is designed such that when fun game mechanics and sensible flavor clash, flavor is sacrificed

>>46438672
Depends on what the theme is.

>>46438603

What charms AREN'T good?

>>46438725
Dimir charm

>>46438526

i actually am autistic so im threatened by that insult

theme decks are for fags, case closed

>>46438725
Azorius Charm, Dimir Charm, Gruul Charm, many of the mono coloured charms

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>spend time working on a picture of my decklist to post to the thread because I'm autistic
>realize that there are 2-3 cards that would make my deck retarded were I to add them.
>Realize that even if I add them, I'm still bad at magic
any of you fags wanna play EDH over Cockatrice?

>>46438506
>>46438602
thanks m8s

>>46438725

EDH charm rankings:

>Abzan Charm
exile mode is decent in EDH, draw mode is okay, counters are bad
5/10
>Azorius Charm
lifelink mode is very strong, draw a card isnt terrible being instant speed, tuck mode is good
7/10
>Bant Charm
smelt mode is fairly weak in bant colors, tuck mode is very powerful, dispel mode isnt awful
5/10
>Boros Charm
damage mode is situationally strong, double strike is usually solid, indestructible is fantastic
8/10
>Chaos Charm
all 3 modes are weak
1/10
>Crosis' Charm
boomerang mode is great, doom blade mode is also great, smelt is solid in grixis colors
9/10
>Darigaaz's Charm
recursion mode is decent, bolt mode is somewhat playable, giant growth mode is situationally okay
5/10
>Dawn Charm
fog mode is good, regen is cool in white, counterspell is situationally awesome normally underwhelming
7/10
>Dimir Charm
counter sorcery is limited but decent, destroy tiny creature is fairly underwhelming, advanced fateseal mode is playable in heavy control situations
3/10
>Dromar's Charm
gain life is usually weak, counter any spell is very strong, -2/-2 is just barely strong enough to make the counterspell mode more valuable
4/10
>Ebony Charm
lifesteal is bad outside of MAYBE karlov, grave hate is strong, fear mode is okay
4/10
>Emerald Charm
twiddle mode has a okay potential, destory ench is weak in green, anti flying is underwhelming
2/10
>Esper Charm
destroy enchantment is okay in esper, draw two is solid, discard two is also solid
6/10
>evolution charm
basic tutor is fairly weak outside of limited, recur mode is solid, flying mode is somewhat playable
4/10
>Fever Charm
haste mode and pump mode are outclassed, bolt wizard mode is too situational
1/10
>Funeral Charm
discard mode is kinda weak in multiplayer, pump mode is weak, swampwalk mode is pretty weak too
1/10
>Fury Charm
smelt mode is unnecessary in red, pump mode is okay with trample, time counter mode is situationally good
3/10

to be continued

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Drew this guy as my most interesting card in the prerelease I went to yesterday, what cards help him out a lot.

>>46439218
What's that card that gives indestructible to a single creature at the beginning of combat?

That combo wrecked me.

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>>46439244
are you thinking of pic related because that gives indestructible to target attacking creature which happens after the beginning of combat so odric doesn't work with him.

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>>46439295
or was it this one because that does work

>>46439322
Yes, that's the one. Nahiri's machinations.

I basically need that thing for my Basandra deck, come to think of it.

>>46439049
Jesus that is too many creatures and not enough land/mana rocks

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>>46439334
I think I know what I need to do now, time to make an angry avacyn deck with gisela as well for maximum murderous angels.

>>46439340
With Gemhide or manaweft all the slivers become manarocks
I also added Mana Echoes to the deck but I'm too lazy to update the picture

>>46439447
Those guys help a bunch but man it is hard to get them early game when having the fixing matters.

>>46439175

>Golgari Charm
-1/-1 mode can be very good against tokens, destory enchantment is playable in golgari colors, regen mode is great
7/10
>Grixis Charm
boomerang mode is great, -4/-4 mode is pretty good, pump mode can actually do work but grixis is not the ideal colors for it, maybe in a zombie deck though
8/10
>Gruul Charm
unblockable mode can be good, brand mode is very situational, pyroclasm mode is solid
6/10
>hearth charm
destroy artifact creature is too limited, pump mode is outclassed, target tiny creature cant block is bad
1/10
>Hope Charm
first strike is underwhelming, gain life is weak, destroy aura is too limited
1/10
>Ivory Charm
-2/-0 mode is somewhat playable, tap creature is weak, prevent 1 is weak
1/10
>Izzet Charm
spell pierce mode is decent, shock mode is barely playable, careful study mode can be good in some strats
5/10
>Jeskai Charm
tuck mode can be good, burn mode is okay vs planeswalkers, pump lifelink mode is strong
6/10
>Jund Charm
gravehate mode is good, pyroclasm mode is playable, counters mode is weak
5/10
>Mardu Charm
flame slash mode is okay, tokens mode is not awful, thoughtsieze mode is decent
5/10
>Midnight Charm
all 3 modes are weak
1/10
>Naya Charm
bolt mode is whatever, recur mode is playable, tap all creatures mode is versatile
4/10
>Orzhov Charm
Rescue mode is very situational mostly weak, destroy creature mode is strong, recur tiny creature mode isnt the worst thing ever
5/10
>piety charm
destroy aura is bad, pump soldier is pretty weak and situational, vigilance mode is weak
1/10
>Piracy Charm
islandwalk is fairly weak, pump mode is bad, discard mode is underwhelming
2/10
>Rakdos Charm
Gravehate mode is good, smelt mode is playable, batwing brume mode is a surprise killer but very situational
6/10
>Rith's Charm
destroy nonbasic at instant speed is pretty strong, 3 saprolings is also good in naya, single target fog is somewhat playable
6/10

>>46439463
That's why I have 6 tutors, homing sliver, and overlord as my commander
Realistically I SHOULD swap out all the shocks with dual lands because this is over cockatrice, but I'm not a cockmongeler and I'm using a deck that I could realistically afford.

>>46439511
Overlord is only able to come out when you have the mana fixed already.

>>46439480
>Sapphire Charm
cantrip mode is bad, flying mode is weak, phase mode is somewhat playable
2/10
>Seedling Charm
Bounce aura is bad, regen green creature isnt awful, trample mode is underwhelming
2/10
>Selesnya Charm
Pump mode is somewhat playable, exile mode is situationally very good, token mode is somewhat underwhelming
4/10
>Simic Charm
Giant growth mode doesnt do too much in edh, hexproof mode is pretty strong, unsummon mode is playable
6//10
>Sultai Charm
destroy monocolored creature is less situational than you might htink at first glance, naturalize is solid even in sultai, draw mode is decent
5/10
>Temur Charm
fight mode is pretty good, mana leak mode is playable, small creatures cant block mode isnt the worst thing ever
6/10
>Treva's Charm
destroy enchantment is bad in bant, condemn mode is better, merfolk loot mode is pretty bad
3/10
>Trickery Charm
flying mode is whatever, creature type mode is kinda cool in rare situations, sage of epityr mode is kinda cool
2/10
>Vision Charm
mill mode could be worse for 1 mana, second mode is actually beyond my understanding (land type vs basic land type? do they mean legendary lands?), artifact phase mode is pretty situational but okay i suppose
2/10(maybe more once i figure out that second mode)
>Vitality Charm
1/1 insect is bad, pump mode is weak, regen beast is too situational
1/10

>>46439685
>>46439480
>>46439175
Good write up.

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>>46439685
>Sultai charm worse than Temur charm

>>46439896

thanks!

i wrote them in alphabetical cuz thats how they were listed in gatherer

but i suppose it would be more helpful to see the good ones at the top of the list

Charm TIER LIST:
>S Tier-Great Cards
Crosis's Charm, Boros Charm
>A Tier-Solid Cards
Azorius Charm, Dawn Charm, Golgari Charm, Grixis Charm, Jeskai Charm
>B Tier-Playable Cards
Abzan Charm, Bant Charm, Darigaaz's Charm, Dromar's Charm, Esper Charm, Gruul Charm, Izzet Charm, Jund Charm, Mardu Charm, Naya Charm, Orzhov Charm, Rakdos Charm, Rith's Charm, Simic Charm, Sultai Charm, Temur Charm
>C Tier-Bad cards
the rest really

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>this card doubles in price practically overnight
What in the everliving fuck?

>>46440166

maybe a standard deck of some kind?

who can say when we live in such jewish times?

>>46440166
Because Always Watching is a card now

Also tax effects to dissuade aggro decks

>>46440091

idk man they are close, i like temur charm more

the card draw mode of sultai charm is fairly weak for 3 mana and i prefer the fight mode of temur charm to the destroy mono colored creature mode of sultai charm

strictly for edh of course

>>46440166
Oh damn, I JUST traded for this for my Gahiji deck like a week ago

>>46439218
>have two of the 1/2 wolf with haste
>the flip 2/2 werewolf with menace
>end of enemy turn Avacyn
>topdick odric
>swing with all buffing wolf for lethal
>realize i'm in the edh thread and not the prerelease thread

>>46441352
Yeah my prerelease didn't go too well I got all my mythics in my prize packs and none of them are really playable in EDH and since I only really play EDH and limited kinda sucks.

>>46436718
Skeleton tribal is bad to play with and against. It's linear and terrible. I've seen skeleton ship played in a deck using things like Horobi and Mikaeus or as a pirate deck using every "steal" effect in blue and black (bribery, gather specimens, acquire, preator's grasp, etc.). The pirate theme was cute and actually pretty fun since it was throwing it's opponent's decks back at them. The sneaky interactions deck was gorgeous in the sheer synergy it pulled out of it's ass to the point where every time a card landed we weren't sure if it was a bomb or not, resulting in a lot of wasted counterspells and removal.

To reiterate, it's not GOOD but it's FUN. Some decks are both good and fun, others are neither. Skeleton Ship is somewhere in between.

>>46438672
If your argument is that theme is not creative because the idea is unoriginal, every single card and deck you own is uncreative because someone else runs it. Your clothes are uncreative as well, and your computer, food, porn, and waifu are unoriginal and therefore bland and uninspired.

Take off those thick black rimmed glasses, put on some pants that fit, get a decent haircut, take out the dumbass piercings, and assimilate you mannequin.

>>46414976

Is there any mono black commander deck that isn't "coffers tomb mana ramp until you can play your big demons/x cost cards"?

>>46442010

1-never said being creative is a good thing, just that quirky theme decks arent creative

2-to be creative or original, the standards are not quite that high as you make it seem, the smallest bit of originality counts, but theme deck fags arent even the smallest bit original

>>46442052
I'd say Vampire tribal. look at TCCs video on that, a friend has a similiar build and its nice and not "Cabal coffers is your real commander"

Can we discuss reanimate spells?
Such as, Reanimate or Animate Dead vs. Unburial Rites or Dread Return?

Of course, reanimate is better in general, altough I dislike the life loss (dislike paying ~8 life for no immediate game win) but I really like the value you get trough the flashback options of Rites and Dread Return.

>>46442052
Toshiro Umezawa plays totally differently to most other mono black commanders. You get to do spells slinging without being another cancerous Izzet faggot.

>>46417959
counter omnath? works in my meta at least

>>46442052

well id say cabal coffers + exsanguinate is probably at least the plan B or plan C of every mono black deck, but really there are quite a bit of options for plan A

you can do skithiryx infect, you can do reanimator, you can do control or control with superfriends, you can do hand disruption and or stax

>>46442052

New Kalithas whit most of Destroy creature effect.

>>46442143
>you can do reanimator

I wanna do reanimator, whats the best way to counter graveyard hate in mono black?

>>46442271

probably best to not run a bunch of willy nilly self miss and discard effects, to build up a crazy yard, and instead just rely on discarding and reanimating all at once, to miinimize the chances of being hated out

you cant destory a rest in peace easily but there are colorless cards that work

>>46442058
1- You're stating themed decks are unplayable ("I don't understand why [theme decks] interest anybody", "Don't do anything interesting and fun . . . boring and totally underwhelming"), with inference that creative = fun, don't pull that semantics crap about "I didn't say x" when you all but did.

2- The number of theme decks where the card list is NOT higher than the maximum card count for the deck is extremely limited. If you want your deck to be playable you're gonna have to get creative with your list. E.g. frogs, fungus, Rebecca Guay

3- Just because SOME theme decks weren't creative (almost all sliver decks, 2spooky skellingtons, rats) doesn't make them all uninspired (birds, jihad, clones) and several are quite viable (wizards, lands, superfriends).

4- What even are your versions of creative decks? Not just a general thought of what it entails but something like an actual decklist or a well known archetype you believe demonstrates creativity? Atm is just sounds like you have a hateboner and I'm not sure where it's coming from.

>>46442446

the reason i never said being creative is good is because thats not how i feel about magic

my point was that those people who make mostly unviable themes like bird tribal or spooky skeletons THINK they are being interesting, unique, or creative and they arent, the only thing unique about those decks is that they are uniquely suboptimal

i dont think being creative with your deckbuilding for the sake of being unique and original is good

i do think there is value in being creative at acheiving something like a deck thats good competitively or is at least capable of providing a deep playing experience if its not great winning

and by "deep" here i mean lots of relevant top-decks, meaningful synergies rather than just playable ones

>>46442446

whats fun to me is magic itself. trying to gain card advantage, trying to think about what your opponents are planning

playing around answers. sandbagging your own answers

>>46442621
>>46442775
Jesus, spikes are cancer and need to be lined up and shot.

>>46442809

>spikes

uhh i guess

im really more interested in cool combos and surprising plays of any kind than winning every game

>>46442621
>>What even are your versions of creative decks?
>>an actual decklist or well known archtype
Examples, honey

Birds tribal is actually a decent deck btw.

What you said seems to say that only competitive decks are creative with an emphasis on synergy, yet much earlier in this reply chain it was stated that the skeleton ship deck WITH SYNERGIES was fun and interesting, yet this is discounted by omission. You said "creative is good is not how i feel about magic" but three lines later say "there is value in being creative". I know you said "capable of providing a deep playing experience if it's not great at winning" but then you follow it up with top-decks (threat density) as an example and "meaningful" synergies as another, which means fuck all. Come on man, what's the REAL reason you don't like themes?

>>46442446
im a complete different anon, but to me creative would imply finding neat synergies or unusual dorks that are good because of the interaction with the other cards in your deck. or finding a completly new deck idea and finding weird synergies within, instead of jamming your deck with good stuff

>>46437695
You forgot MORTAL KOMBAT even though it's p disrupteable

>>46442809
Spikes aren't cancer, spikes that insist theirs is the only way to play are.

>>46442908

again i dont have an example of a deck i think is "creative" because thats not how i think about decks.

an example of creative deckbuilding would be a modern 3-color deck that packs blood moon in the main deck for a nasty surprise against a meta full of greedy manabases

the reason i consider that creative is that maybe in a perfect world the optimal deck doesnt run blood moon, but the player was able to make some sacrifices to fit the card into his strategy and reap higher potential benefits for the risk

maybe a creative deck in edh would use a wincon thats rarely seen and therefore the metagame doesnt generally pack enough answers for

>Birds tribal is actually a decent deck btw.
post list

>yet much earlier in this reply chain it was stated that the skeleton ship deck WITH SYNERGIES was fun and interesting, yet this is discounted by omission.

my point with skeleton ship in particular is that the card itself is bad. maybe your 99 around him is fun to play because it has a good mix of threat density and card advantage and versatile answers. thats fine thats a cool deck, i just dont see why you chose skelly ship for commander, it would be that much more fun with a commander that represents a useful play

if youre able to make the deck fun to play AND still fit in your hamfisted "this card has a name thats superficially related to my commander's name" theme then good for you, im really happy for you and i would never insult your deck if i saw it in person

>You said "creative is good is not how i feel about magic" but three lines later say "there is value in being creative".

what i meant is that creativity for the sake of being creative, or being different, is not what i care about.

whereas being creative in order to take your opponents by surprise or exploit an underutilized interaction is cool

I want to have a decently competitive deck in BANT colors, is there anthing i can take out? I wanna try and keep the central theme of "landfall" within the deck
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gwu-landfall-edh/
if anything i want a few more combos in the deck or game winning cards

>>46442925
This is confusing now, I don't know who I'm responding to, so I'll just say this to whoever.

Theme decks are NOT uncreative by virtue of being theme decks. Uncreative is not synonymous with auto-include nor does it make a deck bad. Goodstuff.dec is, subjectively, uncreative in a mono colored deck, and that's not bad (sometimes it's what the pod needs). Two or more colors and you have to really make some decisions.

Case in point:
http://www.mtgvault.com/phobes365/decks/bw-edh/

I made this deck as an attempt at control without using blue in a high-powered meta (I'm the only person in my playgroup without a mindsculptor as far as I know). Cards like Akroma and Maze of Ith are generally considered goodstuff cards and in many ways they are, but calling them "jammed in" would be an affront to the decision making involved in including them. I asked for advice on it a few threads ago (it's not quite where it needs to be yet), which led, invariably, to it simply being dismissed as a goodstuff deck with no real thought put into it.

My point is, creativity is bullshit. No one should care about it nor judge someone else based on their own standards of creativity. Instead, judge a deck by whether or not it's fun (with consideration to the intended environment), that's more fun to argue about.

>>46443330
I wont judge someone because he has goodstuff.dec, but I dont have money on mass so I have to get creative

>>46440166
Because this card was almost impossible in a 4-color format. Now that it's boiling down to 2 colors, 3 colors max, it can see play.

>>46443454
>Now that it's boiling down to 2 colors
Does this mean what I think it means?

Because shit like 'only two colors are viable' is what made me quite last time.

>>46443321

this is a cool deck

the only cuts that jump out to me are just cases of slightly suboptimal cards like deprive could be a slightly better counterspell, but deprive is fine, you dont have skyshroud claim to go with your shocklands, but your ramp set up looks fine anyway, even though you have farhaven elf but no wood elves

maybe thats cuz you only have the three shocklands and you want all your spells to be able to get basic plains and islands? pretty reasonable

as far as game-winning cards go you lack time warp

for cuts i'd say you could take out something like soratami mirror-mage, who is cool but really only works if you have quite a bit of lands and landfall stuff in play along side, i didnt count but i think you might have enough "bounce my own lands" stuff, and soratami mirror-mage seems the most awkard to use cuz 3 is a lot of lands. bouncing creatures might be part of some landfall combo though so id understand if youre keeping it in

another maybe cut is sylvan ranger? not bad just not super exciting

hard to cut a 2 drop though, if youre looking for more wincon type stuff

maybe urban evolution for a more powerful card draw effect, given you have plenty of land drops i think

>>46443152
>>i don't have an example of a deck
>>post bird tribal list
this honky

Blood moon in a meta with expensive mana bases is creative to you when it's a common sense meta call to everyone else. A rarely seen win-con isn't creative, it's rarely seen. If I won with sprout swarm via doubling season, earthcraft, vernal bloom, and mana reflection, is it creative or just synergy?

This is what I'm getting at. We need an example of a deck to see what you mean by creative because currently the subjectivity is borderline picasso at this point.

Skeleton Ship does something unique for his colors. If you're evaluating him in a vacuum, he is a sub-par card, but you can't evaluate a card in a vacuum. In a vacuum, Force of Will is terrible. It's life loss and card disadvantage OR five mana to do what a two mana spell can do just the same or some one-mana spells can do situationally, but we both know the card is one of the more expensive cards in magic because of just how good it is outside the vacuum. Its his synergistic interactions that make him a FUN deck (again not good, no one said that) that can pull some neat wins out (most, I'm sure, are rarely seen).

Surprises aren't creative, they're surprises. My decklist posted here includes Cho Manno's Blessing. Including that card in my list isn't creative nor is using it. You'd see me casting it on an opponent's creature to prevent, say, an aura from sticking as a cool and creative interaction, but it's just how the card is. That's not creative, it's working as intended.

Creativity is bullshit, it's ill-defined for this environment and a non-metric for gauging decks.

>>46443482

you misunderstood

in current standard, the mana bases are so good that people run 4 colors in a single deck, and thats the average amount. running less is more niche

when fetchlands and then bfz lands rotate out, the manabases will only support 2 color decks most likely, thats 2 colors in a single deck

all 5 colors should still be realtively viable amongst all decks

>>46442122
Dread Return can be cast without mana, and thus is better for combos.

>>46443613
Ah, I see. So you're saying that the best time to get into standard is when Zendikar rotates out?

>>46418192

>Limited Resources

Using banned cards will do that.

>>46443602

i want to see the bird tribal deck because you said its decent and i was interested in checking it out, im not here JUST to argue with you, you know? i actually hope for these conversations to be less confrontational but it doesnt always work out that way

i seriously cant give a creative decklist dude, i dont know what one would look like, im literally not creative enough. im not being sarcastic here, like i said i play magic because the game is fun to me, not because i try to be on the cutting edge of deckbuilding that hasnt been seen before

>Skeleton Ship does something unique for his colors

he doesnt though. maybe if you strictly mean "there is no other dimir color legendary that puts -1/-1 counters on creatures with a tap ability" then yeah hes unique

but blue black decks simply have better ways of putting -1/-1 counters on creatures and if youre deck is trying to do -1/-1 counters its not even clear that the optimal thing is for your 5 drop commander to be the one putting counters

>Its his synergistic interactions that make him a FUN deck (again not good, no one said that) that can pull some neat wins out

see, if youre telling me that you've seen skeleton ship play a USEFUL role in a gamewinning sequence of plays, then thats simply not something that i had considered possible, and if its true, then i might have to reexamine my judgment of the card as a commander

>A rarely seen win-con isn't creative, it's rarely seen

well surely if something is creative, or in other words, original, it would be rarely seen, otherwise how could it be original.

>If I won with sprout swarm via doubling season, earthcraft, vernal bloom, and mana reflection, is it creative or just synergy?

the reason thats not creative is that people expect to have to deal with powerful gamewinning 5 mana enchantments like doubling season, if they cant answer your mana reflection and doubling season, they wont expect to win

So, my monoblue control is slowly becoming a card draw deck, and I don't like it how do I prevent this form happening, /tg/? What is some secret tech needed for monoblue controls that's not a thousand dollars?

>>46443602

>Blood moon in a meta with expensive mana bases is creative to you when it's a common sense meta call to everyone else.

its not the blood moon itself that is creative, its the fitting it into a deck that normally runs a greedy manabase, thereby masking the fact that your opponent might be getting blood mooned early when they will be expecting a more typical decklist

>>46443869

back to basic is cool and not too expensive

>>46443876
>running basics is creative
Alright that's it. I have really truly heard everything now lol

>>46443925

well theres a scale to creativity

running basics in a deck that doesnt normally run basics is more creative than just running the same metagame deck (not that theres anything wrong with being less creative)

but obviously running basics isnt entirely original, its been an option for all of magic, so its less creative than other things, but more creative than others

certainly more creative than looking on gatherer for all the playable birds and bird lords and making bird tribal edh

>>46443913
>back to basic is cool
lol

>>46443973
TIL there are bird lords

>>46443777
Bird tribal is not "decent" barring some absurdly low power level environment, and I'm willing to bet that guy has and plays a bird tribal deck (probably Derevi or something) and is trying to make it sound less shit than it is, but doesn't want to show it because of how shit it is.

>>46435993
kek

Friendly reminder that the best commanders are Tasigur and Marath and if you're not playing one of them you're being suboptimal

>heading to prerelease this morning
>some faggots having an inane semantically argument about what creativity is
>finish steamrolling scrubs for ez prize packs, heading home
>y'all morangutangs still arguing the same dumb shit

>>46444105
Thanks anonymous.

>>46444105
Reminder that non-duel still has things like Oloro and Derevi and Edric legal.

>>46444105
Narset has more tops than Marath on mtgtop8 so toss her in there too and I'm pretty sure Yisan is probably high up there too though maybe not breaching 30. But close enough you got it.

>>46444105
post a top tier marath list you chump

>>46444105
>not derevi
Do you even like winning or do you just pretend to so you don't get called a casualbab?

>>46444211
Derevi is banned in French, child. You'd know this if you weren't pretending to be a spike in a fucking EDH thread.

>>46444246
>French
LOL

>>46444246

does anybody know where to find coverage of top level french edh tournaments and such?

does it exist on youtube? how do people know what the highest level of french edh looks like?

>>46444264
Yeah I mean who even cares about what people in France do. They don't even take showers. They aren't any more relevant in competitive commander than any other country. :^)

File: hellsing-apostels-blessing-14318027810.png (158KB, 243x348px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 243x348px

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/27-03-16-kaalia-of-the-vast-edh/

so, I have this EDH here that uses Kaalia of the vast as my commander. So far its going pretty well... But I was wodnering if /edh/ has any suggestions for me for protecting Kaalia?

I sincerely need to keep her on the field. She basically is this deck. If anyone has suggestions to protect her, I'd love to know.

>>46444264
Yes, how dare a committee put up rules that actually make sense and disallow nonsense such as Serra Ascendant or Sol Ring. It's like they want the format to be balanced or something, disgusting right?

>>46444291
I don't know about coverage. MTGSalvation has a thread that has some minor coverage for duel commander tournaments, a few of which are from the lists posted on mtgtop8.

>>46443584
thanks for the advice, I did just notice now that the list isnt updated, I abit of cards around, cause for some reason as i was building the deck I either misplaced cards, havent purchased them yet or just plain forgot about them

here is the updated list
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gwu-landfall-edh/

also the main reason why i dont have skyshroud claim and wood elves is because it specifically says "forest card" i know it means any land with subtype forest but idk why it triggers me if i can only go for one land type in something more then 2 colors.

i ended up cutting soratami mirror mage for the same reason you listed, for 3 mana to hand it isnt really that great of an effect.

>>46444291
Googling things is hard
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=EDH

>>46444312
Really, Serra Ascendant was in the same breath as Sol Ring? I would have included like... Mana Crypt or something. Serra Ascendant is good but there's Serra Ascendant and then there's Sol Ring.

>>46443777
Ah, decklist seemed like a cheeky response you were saying rather than a legitimate request. I guess welcome to text-based dialogue? I don't have a decklist, but rather I saw one in action slap the shit out of my Azusa a few times, so I say it's pretty solid. Swans of Brynn Argol and a bunch of aven were the big ball busters.

The unique thing skeleton ship does isn't that he puts -1/-1 counters on stuff, but it's that he taps, targets, and puts counters with no mana requirement. This leads to interactions with cards like Horobi, Death's Wail to turn him into murder on a stick, Penmin's Aura/Freed from the Real/unstap stuff for machinegun counters, and interactions with stuff that benefits from -1/-1 counters or has undying. That's a lot of stuff in blue/black you can work with to make several variations with.

You're right in that there are cards that work better for these scenarios, but there are no legendary creatures in these colors that do, so Skeleton Ship is the commander of choice for some people with victory in mind.

What it comes down to is this, the ship isn't good, but it's the only card in town. A perfect example of another commander that's terrible but used is Maralen Mornsong. No more drawing cards, your opponents get the tutor first, and you have no choice since she's the only black legendary tutor creature you can use for your black combo monster. Until Thriller Sidisi came out, this was all true. Sidisi, a more than half-decent black tutor legend came out and Maralen was slotted into fringe control decks with a heavy draw meta as a hate card. If you tell me tomorrow a U/B general was spoiled that slaps -1/-1 counters, targets, and say has a 3CMC, you can bet your ass this entire mess won't be posted again in our lifetime, but that isn't happening. Skeleton ship is the choice general for certain deck strategies because of all the U/B generals there are he's the only one that hits all the sweet spots those decks need.

1/2

>>46444349
A 6/6 flying lifelink for W is pretty much the epitome of nonsensical. We're talking RoboRosewater levels of absurdity.

>>46442052
Horobi

>>46444362
>A perfect example of another commander that's terrible but used is Maralen Mornsong.
Nigga there's someone out there who uses every shit commander.

>>46444386
Yeah but I mean a big duder is absurd in the sense of ridiculous but it's not the same level as Sol Bling in terms of actual strength.

>>46443777
>playing skellingtonship against marchesa
>marchesa screams at me and leaves halfway through the game

I didn't win the game but I guess I changed who would have won the game

>>46444302
>needing help with kaalia
anyways ignoring the fact that your a shitter playing kaalia, a few of the newer white cards that came with the W/B commander deck
bastion protector and shielded by faith are good choices
id honestly swap dreadbore with hero's downfall 1 more mana for instant speed? 100 times yes
you can easily remove dawn charm and wild ricochet for more protection

add swiftfoot boots

i dont know what else, maybe git gud?

>>46444342

obviously ive been on mtgtop8 i just wasnt sure if that was representative of the highest level of play

the tournaments it takes stats from are from all kinds of sources so i didnt know

>>46444386
>a 6/6 beater is too powerful in a multiplayer 40 life format

>>46444476
Skeleton Ship confirmed anti-Marchesa hate tech. Just play a generic good stuff UB deck and use him as your commander if you have some dirty Marchesa picker.

>>46444546
It's too powerful in 1v1 30 life formats. It's swingy but fine in multiplayer.
In before
>Hurr playing french
Nigga that has nothing to do with criticizing someone saying something is too powerful without having a clue what format they were even talking about.

>>46444362
>>46444362

2/2

Creative, again, is pointless without a solid definition, currently we're going off of what you say is and is not, and you're no king of Webster.

No one cares about original, rarely seen just means rare. That's it. Nothing else.

If I beat you to death with Cao Cao from P3K, it's not original or creative, I just used a 5-mana beater to stomp on you.

The word I think you're looking for is innovative, something like eggs or lantern control in modern is exactly that (fun factor is not on the table for this). EDH, however, doesn't really have that.

As stated, my example would not be "creative" because it used "powerful" game winners, but if that's what they're intended to do in the deck, what makes any card innovative then? My lands are intended to tap for mana, so not innovative. My tutors are designed to grab cards I need to win, no innovation there. My target kills, while versatile, are there for the purpose of stopping some prans from North Korea across the table. No innovation, no creativity, by your definition of the term based on examples given. Doubling season, a card meant and used for the purpose of doubling tokens and counters, is used for that purpose, so it's not innovative. Mana Reflection, a card used to increase mana production, did exactly that, so it's not innovative, not creative, and not original.

Again, tell me, what is creative?

>>46444546
to be fair, if you pull it out turn 1 it could easily win you the game, or atleast put you leagues ahead of the opponent

>>46444558
>3 people in my playgroup of Marchesa decks
>play Skeleton Ship for an entire night
>they were all too scared to play Marchesa
Feels good every time, especially if I announce it first so i can't be that counterpicking asshole

>>46444598

you're the one telling me my definition doesnt work so i dont know why youre asking me for a definition. i gave you the one that corresponds to the uses of the word that came from ME, if you think the word needs a better definition for general use then fine, for your purposes, replace creative with innovative in all my posts

so given that, why are you asking me what creative means?

>>46444546
>>46444595
The reply chain does actually infer you meant that serra ascendant was 2gud4france

No one (with a working brainstem) is defending the multiplayer EDH banlist, but french commander isn't the dankest singleton banlist to ever wave it's oppressive girth around in the wind either.

>>46444691
You're aware that French is not only played in France right? It's pretty much the reference for non-multiplayer EDH.

>>46444684
>>46444684
Did you read the rest of the post? I explained why your definition of creative, using your own example, doesn't work. I'm asking you, not so you can tell me, but so you can tell yourself what that word means. Right now, it means a carved up mess of terms that are, again, modern art levels of thumb-up-ass.

From what I gather, your definition of creative (since you don't like innovative) is this: wins, isn't known, and does something other than intended. This doesn't make any sense.

Senpai, please, help Daniel-san to understand wtf you're saying

>>46444105
>playing islamic EDH
laff

>>46444614
How do you even get 3 people playing the same commander in a playgroup, unless it's the whole community of a big store or something. It's not like it's Tasigur or something where I could imagine 3+ people who want to play what they think is the best deck.

>>46444770
I don't know how you could possibly come to the conclusion that there was any confusion on that matter.

>>46444837
Azami, Narset, Maelstrom Wanderer, and Zeganna have all been the only decks at some pods I've witnessed. It's more common than you'd think.

>>46444837
group of like 6-7 of us, usually stick to games of 4-5 depending on who is around. But one person used it, other person thought he was building her wrong so he built his own. Then a new guy joined who happened to have her.

We also have 6 low powered morph decks all with different color combos in our group but that's mostly because I insisted upon itIts actually 9 total because I own 3, the other two being a bit more competitive

>>46444874
That's so weird. Maybe it's just my group but I always imagined a sense of wanting to be a special snowflake as "the guy who plays x commander" would prevent that, and even for people with more Spike tendencies have plenty of strong commanders to pick from without having to pick all the same one, which is about how I'd describe my group. I don't have any problem with it, just seems weird to imagine things play out that way for somebody. I guess Marchesa is a pretty unique commander with a unique gameplan to build around so it makes sense that would appeal to multiple people.

>>46444893
Give me your high powered morph deck you cuck

>>46444975
hopefully its animar flavor

>>46444803

>I explained why your definition of creative, using your own example, doesn't work

no you didnt, you just asked a bunch of rhetorical questions

>what makes any card innovative then?

im perfectly happy with my answer already given to this question, running high basic lound count for blood moon in a multicolor deck is not extremely innovative, but its something, and your example of lantern control is also exactly what i meant

>EDH, however, doesn't really have that

maybe thats why i cant think of an EDH deck that i'd call "creative"

and again, there's always more nuance to terms

you say that doubling season is always used for tokens and counters so using it for tokens and counters cant be innovative, sure

but maybe your innovation lies in the timing and/or protections and fail safes surrounding your usage of the card doubling season.

>(since you don't like innovative)

i never said i dont like innovative, i expressly said that you should think of every time ive said "creative" in this thread as if i had said "innovative"

>From what I gather, your definition of creative is this: wins, isn't known, and does something other than intended. This doesn't make any sense.

first off, that makes perfect sense. i wouldnt personally agree to that definition but there's nothing incoherent about it. a deck that wins, plays cards that its opponents may not have heard of or remembered to prepare for, sounds creative to me. im not sure what you meant by "does something other than intended", i assume thats an extension of your inability to see any subtlety in the use of cards, much like your reasoning regarding doubling season

Apparently Gaea's Cradle and Yisan have been banned from the French commander format.
I believe there's no need for further proof on how silly their list is.

>>46444975
the key phrase is higher powered, but it can fairly consistantly swing with a 100/100 unblock facedown wall and drawing half your deck in the process. I'll toss it up on tapped out in a bit

>>46445128

idk gaea's cradle makes sense, its a ridiculous card and you see these french tournaments, half the top 8 is a green mana dork deck with gaea's cradle

yisan is just the quintessentail commander for that sort of thing

>>46445128
I doubt they would ban Gaea's Cradle and Yisan before Tasigur. Gaea's Cradle is kind of stupid anyway so that's understandable.

>>46445193
But they did ban Tasigur too.

>>46445128

>implying Cradle shouldn't be banned in multiplayer

C'mon now. It produces a shitload of mana and is prohibitably expensive. I'd gladly lose coffers to see cradle gone, too.

>>46445174
I can uh...pretty much guarantee that doesn't happen "fairly consistently". I'd guess that was a pretty generous rating. If something consistently made a one-shotting 100/100 that drew half your deck it'd probably be more relevant.