/wfg/ Warhammer Fantasy General- Yelling edition

>>46344522
>You are invited to a Fantasy Battle campaign in Athel Loren. Your end goal is to eradicate the Wood Elf player by any means necessary (the girl running the campaign is flexible and will set up all kinds of special scenarios, if you can justify them by fluff).
>What army do you bring, what is your grand strategy, and what do you hope the other players (who may have their own agendas) bring?
Dwarfs, lots of warriors, some slayers, longbeards, ironbreakers; flame cannons, flaming bolt thrower, all magic weapons flaming. Hack and Burn all the way, hope my allies bring cavalry to flank and pin the enemy.

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Dark elf player here reposting for rules assistance.
The cauldron of blood is listed as a chariot with scythes, does that mean it deals impact hits?

I also need suggestions for magical beasts that could either perform the function of a bolt thrower or be the mount for one.

>>46344891
Enslaved ogre/troll chucking spears

>>46344913
That seems a bit half assed, cool as shit but half assed.

>>46344891
D6+1 impact hits for scythed chariot.

>>46344891
Maybe a Rat Ogre using the bolt thrower like a crossbow, or having it placed on it's back.

>>46344522

Needs a swarm of gnoblars desu senpai

Has anyone heard of A Fantastic Saga? I'm flipping through the PDF and it seems like a really interesting rule set.

So, /whfb/ what are you currently working on?

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>>46346084
Being triggered by "pro painted" models on ebay

>>46344891
giant porcupine?

as for mounting crossbow on one - well, Naggarroth is frozen north, right? use a mammoth.
or a spider. spiders are always cool.
or buy one of the smaller dragons from Reaper, don't give it wings and mount bolt thrower on resulting giant lizard (shadow dragon model would work especially well for sea-themed army)

>>46346167
wow, apparently I always been a pro painter but never knew it!

>>46345475
Cheers.

>>46346186
Reapers range probably will have something magical in nature to use. I completely forgot to check their monster line.
I was thinking of using the kings of war dagons breath but the pictures are so crappy I can't tell if it's worth it.

>>46346084
Dark elf list for vampire counts stomping.

Hello there! /tg/ White Dwarf anon here!

We have a rough plan of first issue and we need your participation! It's supposed to be a /tg/ creation!
You can find the plan here
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Don't be scared if you want to propose something unrelated to issue's theme or clashing with the plan - we're flexible and good content is more important than theme or plan.

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Have a nice day!

>>46346084
finishing my branchwraiths
just archer one (for Toxic Pollen aspect) left to complete

so the fuckers took down the skaven battalion without it being sold out. just before I wanted to get some once I got my salary this month

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>>46347183
I've just realized that there are a lot of elf players on /tg/

>>46347245
Buy one from ebay, you damned fool.

>>46347382

Yeah, I can buy it from ebay at 65 GBP or could have gotten one from independent retailers for 45 GBP, it is literally the same I am such a fool

so dreary here

How do you feel about the insanity mechanic in 2e? Do you use it as often as suggested, or do you pare it down?

>>46347669
I don't feel like posting today

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>>46347828
Congrats

>>46347835
I just realized... is "Knight of the Blazing Sun" a pun?

>>46347847
I don't get it

>>46347929
well, "blazing sun" and "night" are sorta incompatible things

>>46347835
Nice hat, whaddya trying to look like, a secret agent?

>>46347943
...I don't know how to reply to that since my folder of anime grills disappeared into the warp

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How do people feel about Ogre Warbands for Mordheim?

A couple of my group members are throwing minor to major tantrums at the fact the list would potentially have more than one multiple-wound model.

I'm not trying to powergame this, I honestly just want to play with the only models I have. This is a new warband I found, made by Border Town Burning, is there anything majorly wrong with it, or are those guys in my group just reactionist faggots who want to flat out deny me the possibility of even trying it out to see how it works?

I also wanted to potentially include Gnoblars, but they objected to the possible choice of ignoring them for the purposes of Rout (Ogres and Gnoblars don't give a shit about Gnoblars), claiming that anything which ignored or manipulated certain game rules was verboten.

So given the option of including some stupidly vulnerable chumps who would die in droves and cause my Ogres to flip their shit and run away, I decided not to.

>>46348155
I'd agree with them on Rout.
Ogres and Gnoblars don't give a shit about Gnoblars on a battlefield, when they are part of a bigger army and there's good nice battle in front of them.

When you are just a few guys in scary dark corrupted ruined city, teeming with ratfolk who will eat you alive, mutants, fanatics and god knows what else? You care even about Gnoblar if he's on your team

>>46347245
You're better off buying the new Start Collecting! Pestilens box and square bases if you want Plague Monks, or separate boxes of Clanrats if you want Clanrats.

God damn those old Rat Ogres are fucking ugly.

>>46348187
Fair enough I guess.
Just wanted to hear an opinion from someone else.

Any other opinions on Ogres in a list in general?

>>46348192

Well, that's the issue, I wouldn't spend money on those Rat Ogres alone, and the main draw of the battalion for me was actually getting those rat ogres + giant rats +3 herders for free :(

Oh well, there goes my plans of a Rat Ogre horde.

>>46348233
get IoB rat ogres from chinamen
those ancient separate ratogres are fucking ugly

>>46348244

I already have like 6 IoB rat ogres. The old multipart ratogres might be ugly, but offer way more posability and variety than the two snapfit new ones.

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>>46347847
>>46347929
>>46347943
>>46348128
>mfw I never realized this before.

>>46348274
Kitbash the IoB Rat Ogres with the Screaming Bell Rat Ogre and the heads/melee weapons of the Stormfiends and you'll get fairly unique models.

Or, since their rules are kind of subpar anyway, just use the ones you have as unit filler for your infantry blocks.

>>46348444
they ain't bad in 9th

So, very recently(like a year ago) I decided to get a fantasy army. I have only recently gotten back onto 4chan and other such sites so did not keep up with product lines and such, and was unaware of both the death of WHFB and Age of Sigmar

Got me the bare minimum Vampie counts in one of the big boxes but now I'm worried..

did I just blow money I could have spent expanding my 40K armies on something GW is about to not support? Or am do I now desperately by as many models as possible to build a proper army before they just aren't available anymore?

>>46348510

Vampire Counts are safe mate, and though finding people to play warhammer with will be increasingly difficult, there will be always people playing either WHFB, KOW or 9th age.

>>46348510
Judging by how Mordheim, BFG, Epic etc. all have fairly strong communities despite being unsupported for years, and the high prices/low availability of their models on ebay, I'd say it's better to get into it sooner rather than later.

>>46348510
>did I just blow money I could have spent expanding my 40K armies on something GW is about to not support?

Yes, but at this points any money not spent on 30k (the only good GW game for the past 10 years) is wasted anyways.

What are the weakest characters/units that can kill a greater daemon in the fluff? I know dragons,elf heroes and the best haos champions can bring them down, but what of the other factions? Is there anything that go go one on one with a greater daemon from the orcs? How about the ogres, or the vampire counts or tomb kings?

>>46348587
Well, Grimgor humiliated Archaon the Everemo, and that fag beat a greater daemon.

>>46348622
To be fair he just finished beating up both Valten and Luthor Huss, then got hit on the head with a lamp while he wasn't looking.

>>46348587
Humans heroes such as Paladins and Captains of the Empire.

>>46348587
in fluff, Ogre Tyrants beat Giants into submission one-on-one. presumably, with their bare fists / non lethal weapons, as to not kill the said giant. quite possibly a particularly badass Tyrant in full battle gear could take on a greater daemon.

Coven Throne is said to be able to take on a Greater Daemon in armybook fluff. Abhorash would skin a Greater Daemon without breaking a sweat.

Settra killed a Great Unclean One, I believe. Also, Tomb Kings have the Destroyer of Eternities, which can perma-kill Greater Daemon with but a single hit, IIRC.

Orcs... dunno about Orcs.

>>46348622
stone-paper-scissors
Grimgor headbutts Archaon, Archaon chokes Bloodthirster, Bloodthirster stomps Grimgor

>>46346084
multibasing my skellingtons

>>46348656
That's not actually how it happened, archie bunker and grimgor had a legitimate brawl after grimgor had cut his way through hell pit, marched straight through archaons chaos horde and faced him 1 V1

That was when krom the conquer might very well have been the greatest warrior alive but bowed to archaon because his gods demanded it though.

>>46348587
The weakest thing to kill a greater demon was either the dorf who picked up gotreks axe originally and managed to take a bloodthirster down with him or felix, a human with a magic sword who has brawled with two greater demons.

>>46349100
I was paraphrasing, but he still fought him after he had fought two great heroes. It's like getting into a super heavy weight boxing match immediately after fighting, well, a boxing match against two heavy weights.

>>46349135
Neither valten nor huss were all that, valten was famous for wailing on beastmen and luther was an old ass man.
Even with karls hammer he still needed years of training before he would have been ready to fight the ever chosen, karl should have been the one to face him with death claw.

Also grimgor had been fighting for almost a month at that point, he was equally exhausted. It's one of the few times that GW actually wrote a decent match up.

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>>46348587
I'm fairly sure oxayotl kicked his fair amount of daemonic asses during his infamous trip.
On the lizardmen side there was also that time jungle swarms killed a daemon prince and pic related.
But it's daemon princes, not greater daemons.

>>46348233
Go metal or go home.

>>46348587
It took like twenty Halberdiers to kill one in the story of the Everchosen before Archaon.

He picked up their unit champion and pulped him, but the rest stabbed and swung until what was left looked more like one of Tzeentch's painted red over red.

>>46348453
Are large numbers of rat ogres and plague monks a basis for an army in 9th? I was thinking of making an alternate list for Warhams with my models, but from my experience, the troops I have aren't that great and Skaven rely heavily on gimmick troops I don't have models for.

>>46349295
Don't bullshit.

Valten was Sigmar reincarnated and wielding the Ghaz Maraz a weapon that destroyed Nagash, and Luthor Huss was the most powerful Warrior Priest. The fact that they were hammering Archaon and getting hammered by him but stood their ground proves how powerful they were.

They wounded Archaon grievously but at the end when Archaon was going to finish Valten he saw the comet birthmark on his chest which made him freeze from a crisis of faith.

Then Grimgor came around from behind to trample him and headbutt him. It wasn't even fight because Archaon was wounded and the fight was driven from him by what he saw.

Furthermore, Grimgor couldn't best Krom. A warrior Archaon easily manhandled and was going to deliver a deathblow to if he didn't kneel after acknowledging Archaon.

Thinking that Grimgor is an equal of Archaon is just being stupid.

Your post shows an unhealthy bias against Archaon for some raisen.

>>46349939
>Don't bullshit
>Valten was Sigmar reincarnated
Choose one, edgelord.

>>46350123
Nah.

Many believed him to be that. Including Huss the prophet of Sigmar.

You think people getting a comet birthmark and absurd strength is a common occurrence in the Empire?

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Look at him.

LOOK.

He is the spitting image of Sigmar.

>>46349789
>20 halberdiers

That can't even kill one on the tabletop.

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>>46350207
Practically a clone.

>>46350207
yup

and his stupid model was some bearded old fart, which always was a letdown to me

>>46350207
Why do his loins get a holy halo?

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>>46350231
To be fair, Sigmar grew a beard in the latter stages of his life too.

>>46349795
Plague Monks are Core in 9th, so you can invest into them heavily and Rat Ogres have pick-and-match unit-wide upgrades, so you can really convert units to your liking (e.g. spiked rat ogres for Devastating Charge, armoured ratogres, etc.)

>>46349795
9th seems to heavily favor flanking, so you aren't as crippled by not having a giant horde unit as you were before.
That gives you more leeway for more small groups of models.

So...yes? I can't say for certain, I'm still playtesting and digesting this and focusing on core rules still, but for sure "better than in 8th".

>>46350254
but not wizard beard, and Sigmar had decency to disappear as still not old man

you don't have "messiah reincarnated" as an older man. messiahs are supposed to burn bright and die young

Valten clashing with Archaon as young hero full of fire and faith would've been so much more awesome

>>46350251
And why is that dying man reaching out for them?

So many questions.

>>46349939
>Don't bullshit.

I'm not, it seems as if you've never actually read the final battle between archaon and grimgor or weren't present at all during the storm of chaos.

The "grimgor head but from behind" meme was just that, he didn't actually win by blind siding archaon. He won by disarming him then deciding against killing him because lol plot armor.

>Your post shows an unhealthy bias against Archaon for some raisen.

It shows an accurate grasp of the situation, archaon wasn't always the equal of sigmar he is now in the end times and age of sigmar.

>Furthermore, Grimgor couldn't best Krom.
Also untrue, their fight never finished because grimgors orcs couldn't go toe to toe with kroms body guard. As a result he had to break with the rest of them or risk being surrounded.

>tfw you'll never read about khornes champions getting mulched by vampires they should never have picked a fight with in the first place again

Didn't this Valten Archaon stuff happen way back in 6e?

No one likes Archaon because he's a forced meme. He's a boring loser who GW tried to push by giving him a 1,000 point fieldable model.

>>46350503
>I'm not, it seems as if you've never actually read the final battle between archaon and grimgor or weren't present at all during the storm of chaos.

I have read it. He bulldozed Archaon and beat him after Archaon sent Huss flying across the battlefield.

Pretending that it was a fair fight and that Grimgor actually managed to defeat Archaon on his own is just plain bullshitting.

>Also untrue, their fight never finished because grimgors orcs couldn't go toe to toe with kroms body guard. As a result he had to break with the rest of them or risk being surrounded.

Their fight lasted the entire battle. Nobody Orc or Chaos warrior dared go near them as they fought. The fight only ended when Crom lowered his weapons which snapped Grimgor from his battlejoy long enough to realize that his army is beat.

Archaon defeated Crom is a few minutes.

Now who hasn't read the fluff, eh?

>>46350584
>way back in 6e

Which is when lots of people think the fluff should have stopped yes.

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>>46350584
We have losers in the Pantheon.
The humans are bringing sobriety. They're bringing the chaste.
Some...I assume are fun people.

We're going to build a Wall of Terror, nobody builds them like Luxcious, let me tell you. They say it'll take ten billion skulls, that means four billion if you do it right. Maybe twelve.

Make Chaos interesting again.

>>46350629
in a few*

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>>46344700
I like that OP copied that directly from last thread because he didn't read last OP properly and I like that we got another answer. It seems to be a curse that the theoretical thread topic is always ignored, but that the first question asked in a reply gets a ton of answers.

>>46350584
Because all the Chaos players had to do was touch the castle gates to win

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Guys.

I want you to put you in the shoes of a GW studio developer. You have been tasked by the management to write a better version of the End Times. However, at the end of it the world must be destroyed to pave way for a new setting. This is a forgone conclusion.

Also you must squat at least two factions and replace them with two new ones.

Go.

>>46350794
I refuse

>>46350794
>GW studio developer
ah, so I'm in GW office? I pick the right moment when nobody sees and stab CEO in the back with a knife.

>>46350794
I squat Games Workshop and give the IP to Rick to do whatever he wants.

>>46350923
Management has kidnapped your family and have locked you in room with a typewriter and a ball & chain.

If you ever want to be free and see your family again, you better start writing

>>46350990
Is this the plot to a room escape point and click adventure game?

I'd play it.

>>46350794
Draw the world into the Warp which scrambles it.

All is canon, all timelines exist. Khorne himself can fight Khorne himself, your favorite characters are both dead and alive, Tzeentch can be outplanned when Lizardmen in Lustria drop another Lustria on his army, creatong a super-Lustria.

Comedy and over the top Ultimate Showdown Of Ultimate Destiny antics reign supreme. You can disregard anything you want.

Archaon from End Times is beaten not by Grimgor or Valten, but by the fans of the Blood Bowl universe version of himself pissed off that his Blood Bowl self lost at the playoffs.

In other words, make nothing being canon canon. We have a Mallus where End Times never happened alongside Age of Sigmar alongside whatever the fuck you want. Fantasy 40k, 40k Fantasy, Age of Slam, everything.

The only certainty is you will have a good time.

>>46350629
>Pretending that it was a fair fight and that Grimgor actually managed to defeat Archaon on his own is just plain bullshitting.
Pretending that it wasn't a fair fight is ridiculous, valten was a nobody, huss was an old ass man and grimgor had just marched in a straight line for days on end to get to archaon after fist fucking the meanest mutants the hell pit could throw at him.

Neither one of them were at their peak and archaon went down to pure greenskin ferocity.

>Now who hasn't read the fluff, eh?
Still you, or you didn't understand it. The crom archaon took down was not the same level of crom that grimgor faced, during the storm of chaos crom had bowed upon seeing the slayer of kings and had never lost in single combat.

>>46350584
>Didn't this Valten Archaon stuff happen way back in 6e?
Yes, during the retconned storm of chaos.
Archaon wasn't the mary sue he is now.

>>46350659
There's very little fluff that has come out since then of the same quality, even now when ever I introduce someone to warhammer fantasy I have them read the 6th ed army books first because they're just that much better.

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>>46350794
Easy. I rewrite the End Times so that the Lizardmen win, using the prophecies of the Old Ones to find a reset button. Thus, the setting is reborn, and we get to play during the Age of Sigmar - when Sigmar was alive and everyone was barbarians.

Ogres are squatted (but kept as mercenaries in other factions) and replaced with Tileans (which at this point would be somewhat like Romans), and Skaven are squatted (because of timeline reasons) and replaced with...I dunno, fucking ancient Cathay.

>>46351098
>Skaven are squatted (because of timeline reasons) and replaced with...I dunno, fucking ancient Cathay.
sooooo... billions of despicable ugly creatures with advanced (for their age) tech, are replaced with billions of even more despicable ugly creatures with advanced (for their age) tech?

>>46351098
>Skaven are squatted (because of timeline reasons)
Which timeline reasons? Skaven existed before Sigmar, if that's what you mean.

>>46351035
Refuse anyway

>>46350794
>mfw I've put way too much thought into this already
Keep most of it as is, except start the theoretical 9th age just after chaos has lost its grip on the old world with the other factions emerging to reclaim the ruins. Start from the elven point of view then work my way forwards through the younger races to the empire.

>end times
>DE, HE, WE merged into one book
>tomb kings and VC merged into one book
>empire, brets, dwarves merged into one book
>Demons, WOC and beastmen into one book
>greenskins, skaven as is
>ogres as a DOW army
>lizardmen and chaos dorfs to forgeworld

>>46351089
>Pretending that it wasn't a fair fight is ridiculous, valten was a nobody, huss was an old ass man and grimgor had just marched in a straight line for days on end to get to archaon after fist fucking the meanest mutants the hell pit could throw at him.

You saying that they were nobodies doesn't make it true. Both of them were powerful warriors who gave Archaon a run for his money and wounded him in both body and mind.

Grimgor did not face Archain at his full power. He faced an Archaon that was softened up for him. How is it a fair fight?

And about the marching bit. Archaon was marching also. Faster than Grimgor's horde in fact. Grimgor wanted to reach the city and sack it before Archaon did.

>The crom archaon took down was not the same level of crom that grimgor faced

Bullshit that you pulled out of nowhere.

>during the storm of chaos crom had bowed upon seeing the slayer of kings and had never lost in single combat.

Archaon fought Crom with only his shield and he disarmed Crom and held him. As Archaon pulled the Slayer of Kings to finish Crom, Crom saw it and relented.

>>46351205
>all that merging

It's like you hate unique flavour. You end up with what, 9 armies including forgeworld? No way you'd be able to have as deep a bench as the lines individually, it would be totally broken (dwarf gunline+Bretonnian Knights+Empire wizards). Everything would be trimmed down to nothing.

>>46351243
Tomb Kings and VC in one "undead" army worked in the past. You can just tailor to theme.

Likewise with Chaos. Each part is boring on their own, but awesome in a combined Chaos force.

Merging Elves together and humans and dwarfs is a bad idea, though, yes.

>>46351229
>You saying that they were nobodies doesn't make it true. Both of them were powerful warriors who gave Archaon a run for his money and wounded him in both body and mind
Huss was a frail old man who went down to a shield bash, valten did not stand a chance and achieved nothing.

>Grimgor did not face Archaon at his full power. He faced an Archaon that was softened up for him. How is it a fair fight?
Grimgor was not at full strength either and had just fought his way through archaons horde to get there.
Archaon marched fresh, grimgor went straight from the hell pit to archaon.

>Bullshit that you pulled out of nowhere.

That's literally the only way it could have happened, crom followed archaon for decades before facing grimgor.

>Archaon fought Crom with only his shield and he disarmed Crom and held him. As Archaon pulled the Slayer of Kings to finish Crom, Crom saw it and relented.
That's fan fiction from the warhammerfantasy wiki, not the storm of chaos book or any novels written around the time. Crom had never been defeated and bowed because his gods had sent him a vision of a champion.

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>>46351303
But since then Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts have become totally different forces on the tabletop. VC has the Gothic horror vibe, with lots of creepy crawlies and gory things that move surprisingly fast. TK are much slower, much more reliant on magic to sustain themselves, and have ranged attacks, and have the Egyptian motif. You'd have a hell of a time blending the two even aesthetically.

I agree about Chaos. Some of my favourite army books were the 6e Beasts and Hordes, with the rules for bringing in generals and special units from the other book. Daemons should have never gotten their own book

>>46351123
Har har - but seriously, I'm sure a lot could be done with a !not China theme, especially if you were going to include some of the stuff that the Skaven would later have anyway.

>>46351127
Well shit, I thought they were pretty recent. Still, who else would I squat? The Bretonnians?

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>>46350231
>and his stupid model was some bearded old fart
there were three versions of him to represent him during each phase of his life.
the man'o'war album cover was one of them.

>>46351243
>It's like you hate unique flavour.
Not at all, the combined armies carry over all the racial flavor while bringing much more to the table. With back of the book lists ala 6th ed to run pure strain if you really want.
The primary goal is to cut down on redundant unit options, like having 3 different "elf with spear, elf with ranged weapon of some kind by combining armies with similar playstyles and movement speeds.

>it would be totally broken (dwarf gunline+Bretonnian Knights+Empire wizards)
It would play like an empire army does now, unless you invested heavily into knights or dwarven units.
Also I forgot to mention I'd make dorfs movement 4, which would practically double the viable dorf playstyles.

>>46351303
The idea behind VC and Tk would be 3 conceptual lords and heroes, a necro for pure mage, a wight king for pure combat and vamps for a mix.

>>46351458
The tomg kings were always heavy on the egypt, the solution is just to tone it way down.
You can combine that all into one army book anon, merely by adding an extra page of core, special and rare options with completely new fluff for about half the book.

>>46351553
...that's like removing the High from High Elves and making one giant Dark Elf faction. Or making Vampires into Daemons.

That makes no sense at all. You'd be axing the only reason anybody liked them.

New Elves when? I want to start collecting something new.

>>46351506
How long in-universe occurs between those three miniatures?

I always got the impression that it was supposed to be in the order of months. Which just seems weird.

Valten got Ghal Maraz after the Conclave of Light, right? Which means he evolves from stage 2 Valtenmon to stage 3 Valtenking on the march from Altdorf to Middenheim. Which isn't even that far.

>>46351593
That's not doing anything of the sort, are you intentionally trying to misunderstand because you don't want merged army lists or do you really not see how this would work?

It would be turning high elves, dark elves and wood elves, treemonic legion into a fifth faction with its own flavor that wouldn't prevent variations of the others being used.
Vc would be "undead", as they are now but with non vampire characters who aren't shithouse.

>>46351670
I'm talking about your suggestion of removing the Egypt from Tomb Kings.

Nobody played Tomb Kings because of skeletons or the emphasis on Augment spells, you cannot remove or tone down Egypt from TK without taking away 100% of their appeal.

It IS their army identity. They have no other. Anything else is squatting them.

>>46351670
>but with non vampire characters who aren't shithouse
Do you know anything about VC? Not only are Necromancers integral but Kemmler was one of the most important characters in the enture setting until GW raped him in End Times.

>>46351501
>I'm sure a lot could be done with a !not China theme
yup - and all of it was overused and made vomitously cliched by bajillions of theme park games, boyh vydia and tabletop

give me three things that would be unquestionably chinese, awesome, yet not overused to the point you barf when you see them?

>>46351808
Lu Bu
Rocket Troops
Manchu Queues

Yes, that's some massive period jumping, but this is fantasy.

The only thing actually Chinese that's overused is Shaolin Monks. Most overused Asian stuff is Japanese.

>>46351775
There's literally nothing stopping you from painting your "undead" army up like Egyptians, just as there's nothing making a VC army painted up like Egyptians from being more ancient egypt than tomb kings.
It's a completely cosmetic change that allows the mixing of the two army lists.

>>46351798
Necromancers are integral, they're not independently functioning,
Getting into this is a huge tangent but if you look up Girlpainting on yourtube, a fat german chick who played undead legions since 4th and doesn't anymore because there's no way to play an interesting necromancer list.

>>46351858
You're missing Sun Wukon and Brass Men

>>46351501
>I'm sure a lot could be done with a !not China theme

I'd much rather see the Kingdoms of Ind

>>46351900
Forgot about Monkey King. I'm used to overexposure of him being from Japanese sources. But yes, that's a Chinese tale. No Monkey King.

>>46351858
>The only thing actually Chinese that's overused is Shaolin Monks
are you kidding?
>pandas
>stone lions
>serpent dragons with lion manes
>FUCKING MONKEY KING IN EVERY SETTING THAT HAS AT LEAST A SHADE OF ASIA
>kung fu
>flying warriors
>

seriously...


>>46351902
I'm sure british people wouldn't be happy. we see more than enough Kingdoms of Ind in the streets already.

I'd rather see assyrian/sumeran/babylonian style army that is not pint-sized. mesopotamia is horribly underused and underrated style.

>>46351962
There is one....

Hullo, /tg/ White Dwarf anon here!

a name that I sorta like "Pale Gnome" was suggested to us.

what do you think about it?

>>46350231
>disrespecting and not liking valten's glorious beard

Opinion discarded for shit taste

>>46351985
i said
>that is not pint-sized
i.e. not Chaos Dwarfs

>>46351891
Bullshit, you're literally saying "one army will have to be sacrificed in all but crunch for my retarded plan to work", and a Necromancer Battalion of Bone list is not only viable but extremely good.
No Tomb Kings player would ever advocate making them not Egyptian, and few Vampire Counts players would ever want to make them. Kemmler+Krell was the single best named character combo Vampire Counts had, exceeded ONLY by blender lord generics overall.

You have NO idea what you're talking about.

>>46351990
Doesn't have anything to do with science fiction so meh.

Also, Pale Halfling would be better anyway as there are no Gnomes in Warhammer.

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As someone who wrote up my own Cathay army list years ago: Cathay's boring as fuck.

Ok, that's a lie. Chinese mythology and aesthetics are really cool and you could make a great army out of them. But you can tell what it would be a mile off - guys with arquebuses, some rocket artillery, some chinese-themed monster units. There's nothing that screams 'warhammer' specifically rather than 'pseudo-historical fantasy'.

If I were to make a Cathay army, I'd want to do something original. Maybe play up the tzeentch worshipping angle they have.
Give them some core non-human units or something. Anything but a reskinned Empire.

>>46352012
>you're literally saying "one army will have to be sacrificed in all but crunch for my retarded plan to work"
Fucking /tg/ can be so dense sometimes, khemri can still be !notegypt, you just tone down the historical inserts.

>Necromancer Battalion of Bone list is not only viable but extremely good.
Yeah that's one specific build that's formulaic to play.

>You have NO idea what you're talking about.
No anon you're just afraid of change.
>>46351990
Doesn't really make much sense if your interzine is going to be anything more than !not white dorf

>>46352116
Cho No Ku. Core Spearmen with Killing Blow. Sappers.
>There's nothing that screams 'warhammer' specifically rather than 'pseudo-historical fantasy'.

That's literally what Warhammer is. That's why their world landmasses are shaped like ours. The creator of the setting said it was.
>tzeentch worshipping

NO MORE CHAOS FACTIONS.
Neutral or go home.

>>46352164
>Doesn't really make much sense if your interzine is going to be anything more than !not white dorf

but it isn't gonna. it's specifically IS not!WD, as WD used to be when it was good

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>>46352116
Take those vaguely Tzeentchian Chaos tribes that are mongolish and mix them in, give them a stronger cavalry angle. Focus more on sword and shield instead of pikes or spears. Throw in some not!Koreans and not!Japanese for even more flavor.

>>46351661
Storm of chaos lasted a few years in universe. I don't know the specific timeline, but it's definitely longer than a few months.
There was some internal squabble in the Empire over wether or not he is Sigmar reincarnated etc. politics.
Then the last mini has him with an elven steed, so somewhere along the way he had dealing with them too.

I'd have to reread the Storm of Chaos books again to be sure though. Anyway, it's definitely longer than a few months.

>>46352164
>Fucking /tg/ can be so dense sometimes, khemri can still be !notegypt, you just tone down the historical inserts.
Why should you tone it down? Tomb Kings players are happy as Egypt.

Go tell the Warriors they're German now or something. Or tell Empire players they are not German, and are going to be Spanish instead.
>Yeah that's one specific build that's formulaic to play.
As opposed to the other three competitive Vampire Counts builds?

Stop moving goalposts, Necromancers are not only important in lore and crunch but are actually included in almost all lists.
>No anon you're just afraid of change.

If you want change, go to the Age thread. This one is specifically designated the "we don't like change" thread.

>>46351990
meh, Red Giant was better

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>>46352116
Now that I think about it I'd totally play a Cathay army if it was themed like Big Trouble in Little China your core guys could have cleavers or spears and light armor special choices would be like the 3 storms or monsters, your lord could be some Lo Pan looking mother fucker

>>46352116
All the Empire is is early modern Germany with the grimdarkness played way up.

>>46352116
>>46352205
>>46352221
what about a non-human army? make them golems, for instance. whole army tricked by Tzeentch (or, on the contrary, willingly decided to, to oppose chaos corruption) into turning into living statues.

commoners are clay, soldiers are... iron! fuck terracota, fuck cliches, wizards are jade, an order of darker wizards is onyx, nobles are silver. dragon emperor is pure gold wreathed in robes of gold and is literally blinding to look upon

rockets... make rockets with a twist. ditch gunpowder, make them carry small fire spirits inside.

as a twist, ditch cavalry and lions. those didn't turn to stone and are too fragile to carry stone/iron warriors. so horse and lion motifs are omnipresent, and so are cavalry weapons, but purely as a tribute to something they lost

take idea of war-litter/shieldbearers and make whole units of them - minor nobles fighting from atop platform held aloft by warriors

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>>46352205
It's just predictable is all.
That said, I would love to see John Blanche's take on it.

>>46352221
I'd be up for Koreans. Their arms and armour have a very distinctive look that I haven't seen much of in other fantasy worlds.

>>46352278
>Or tell Empire players they are not German, and are going to be Spanish instead.
so, AoW humans?

>>46352390
Remove Chaos, and it might be interesting.

>>46352278
>Tomb Kings players are happy as Egypt.
And they could continue to be so, there's just no reason for an entire army book to revolve around a cosmetic theme.

>Stop moving goalposts
No goal posts have been moved, I clearly established that necromancer only lists were boring and you gave me one possible net list that ignores just above half the army book as a rebuttal.

>If you want change, go to the Age thread. This one is specifically designated the "we don't like change" thread.
If that were true the original anon would not have posted a "what do" scenario.

>>46352211
White dwarf was never good anon, it wasn't a sales catalog but it has always been bad.

I mean the name works as a variation of white dorf but it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with GW. Making it /tg/ related at the very least would be way more engaging.
Even if you have to half ass it by calling it something like fa/tg/ut.

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>>46352390
There was a company doing terracotta soldiers too i think.

>>46352278
>>46352408
AoW or Mom. The spanish are also represented in Warhammer though, so no reason to change the Empire. They're Estalia.

>>46352393
Looks like high stylized Ming era armor, which seems to be in line with what most people have thought of, since that's about the historical time frame.

Korean designs are derivative of North Chinese.

>>46352479
>And they could continue to be so, there's just no reason for an entire army book to revolve around a cosmetic theme.
Lore and cosmetic.

If it ain't broken don't fix it.

Otherwise, may as well just merge Warriors with Brets and Empire and make them all generic humans because its the equivalent of your desire to remove the army-specific flavor in order to shove completely different rulesets into one faction for arbitrary reasons.

Chaos players want to be one faction again. Undead players do not, Vamps are happy and Tomb Kings just want new models and the ability to March.

>No goal posts have been moved, I clearly established that necromancer only lists were boring and you gave me one possible net list that ignores just above half the army book as a rebuttal.

"Boring" is subjective. You claimed there were no viable lists and Vampire Counts has no important non-Vampires. I pointed out that only only is it one of the best, but Necromancers are major in lore and are present in almost all lists. A complete refutation of your baseless claim.

>>46352573
Don't forget Wight Kings. They're pretty important.

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>>46352390
Make Tzneetch a political player, not an official target of worship and I think you're golden. The Bronze men angle seems a decent twist on the old Terracotta Army shtick.

>>46352393
>Korea
What are some other things that separate Korean Mythology?

>>46352510
That same studio made them. Their stuff is nice looking ancient Chinese, but their prices are really high. Metal prices for plastics just doesn't cut it. If I'm paying 2 bucks a mini, I need to feel it.

>>46344522
Beastmen. Seems seems pretty legit to me

>>46352818
>>46352424
Tzeentch ain't a target of worship, he's an enemy that either tricked them into becoming statues (k'tan style), or proved such a powerful opponent they were forced to sacrifice their fleshy lives to avoid corruption

>>46352818
greatest mortal thief didn't steal fire from the gods to bring it to mortals, he stole starcraft

>>46352818
Dunno about myth, but Korean history should be the basis.

Strong as fuck, best medieval navy bar none, so infighty they could never accomplish anything.

>>46352822
They gotta make back the money for their tools somehow. I think it's totally fair for a smaller company with less financial overhead to ask for a little more.
That aside these minis look really nice. And you won't find something as specific like chinese zombies elsewhere.
In fact most chinese miniatures for historicals look like shit. I looked into it before. It's though pickings for chinese models.

>>46346084

Putting some Knights of the Realm together. I want to put a helmet on my musician but it kind of tingles my autism to have someone with a full face helmet be a musician.

>>46353053
You cut give him a drum or something like that. One of the questing knights has a lute even.
Or just look for a helmet with a visor.

>>46353042
>In fact most Chinese miniatures for historicals look like shit.

Tell me about it. The problem is actually twofold. Not only are they mostly not even historically accurate, but the sculpts are generally awful, too.

At such a time that someone releases a decent range of either Ming or Manchu in 28mm, I'll be all over it.

Khurasan does actually have some good Chinese ranges in 15mm, though.

>>46352573
>A complete refutation of your baseless claim.
You haven't refuted anything, you've just cemented that necromancers are a token unit choice by suggesting one specific build while I was talking about an entire necromantic cabal from a fluff and crunch perspective and made yourself look like a fool while doing it.
I even pointed you towards someone elses ten years worth of complaints on the issue to clarify.

>"Boring" is subjective
It really isn't in this case.

>If it ain't broken don't fix it.
Broken however certainly is subjective.

>Otherwise, may as well just merge Warriors with Brets and Empire and make them all generic humans because its the equivalent of your desire to remove the army-specific flavor in order to shove completely different rulesets into one faction for arbitrary reasons.
Why do spergs always resort to this shit?
Why the fuck would you merge chaos warriors and the empire?
From a fluff, rules and models perspective what would you have to gain from that and how would it be similar to merging two different forms of undead to give more options to both and create an interesting third archetype?
Like did you even bother to consider base sizes, model ranges, special rules of existing units from either side or did you just immediately engage the stupid?

>You claimed there were no viable lists and Vampire Counts has no important non-Vampires.
You and I both know I did no such thing, you filth.

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>>46353163
>At such a time that someone releases a decent range of either Ming or Manchu in 28mm, I'll be all over it.
The perrys did Japanese. They should do chinese too.

>>46353042
But come to think of it you can get something undead Japanese.

>>46353325
Kensei is awesome.
I love their models. But the fact the model base size is a bit bigger lets them have better poses.

>>46353238
>broken

Name a single thing that is 'broken' about having TK and VC separate.

Whereas allowing them to be combined diminishes the distinct theme of both.

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>>46353325
>The perrys did Japanese. They should do chinese too.
They have some metal Koreans.

>>46353668
Name a single thing that would change either book if you taped the two together.

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Meh, If I was asked to write a background for Cathay I'd turn it into a refuge for some of the civilized monsters.

>Dragon Emperor
Literal Dragon, the biggest, baddest, raddest dragon. Basically the Emprah but figured out it's a lot easier to impress/enthrall humans than other Dragons. Is a master sorceror, statesman, etc but as the oldest, biggest dragon he's also a dozy fucking cunt. Between his bouts of kicking ass and drowning in concubines rule of Cathay is left to the Prime Minister (a la Korea). In the Age of Karl Franz he's been asleep for centuries, and at this point the bureaucracy that's sprung up in his wake isn't terribly terribly keen on waking him up.

>The Great Bastion
With the rise of Ogres some of the weaker Giants fled to Cathay seeking sanctuary. Renowned for their building prowess they were welcomed, as Cathay was under raid by Chaos Mauraders. Prime Minister Stand-in-for-Yu The Builder begged for the help of the Giants, who participated in a XX-year rolling conflict to both build the Great Bastion as well as beat back the Marauders. By the time they reached the Mountains of Mourn some Ogres were starting to probe the Borders of Cathay. The Dragon Emperor wakes up, fucks the Ogres with some karmic punishment in the form of the Great Maw, and deems the Bastion to be awesome by casting some premium wards on it.

>Giants

Dragon Emperor tells the remaining Giants that they're always welcome at the Palace, and sets up a subsidy for their service. Unfortunately there's too few Giants for them to really flourish, so over time they inbreed to somewhere just above the Giants in the Old World. They're well fed, in shape, some are even literate! Doesn't keep them from being the Military's pets/ Heavy Sappers. Some carry cannons, all of them have pre-fab Minor Bastions they can drop as cover for the ground troops.

Eh, running out of time. Basically imagine Empire with less firearms but some awesome monstrous infantry.

>>46351943
more clichees to avoid?

>>46353238
>necromancers are a token unit choice by suggesting one specific build
No, one REALLY GOOD build and literally every single other competitive build as well.
>I was talking about an entire necromantic cabal from a fluff and crunch perspective

That already exists. You may as well say you're going to finally give Tomb Kings a priesthood.

>I even pointed you towards someone elses ten years worth of complaints on the issue to clarify.
Who clearly has no clue what she's on about.
>From a fluff, rules and models perspective what would you have to gain from that and how would it be similar to merging two different forms of undead to give more options to both and create an interesting third archetype?
Age of Sigmar Undead. Which nobody in this thread wants.

>Why the fuck would you merge chaos warriors and the empire?
Makes as much sense as forcing all Undead into one faction.

>>46353762
I'd say giving Vampire Counts ranged attacks remove one of the weaknesses of the army, making an OP as fuck army into the single most OP army in the game. Not to mention access to Lore of Nehekhara, and the target mitigating powers of Sphinxes.

That's not even getting into giving Hatred to anything you want.

Anyone have extensive experience with Reaper paint?

Whats the difference between Clear Blue, Blue Shade, and Shining Blue? Anyone have any examples?

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Asur a cute.

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Looks like the High Elf Battalion, Silver Helms, Ludwig, and Wardancer Command are the only things not sold out.

What did you guys get, and y u hate Ludwig?

>>46354382
I don't think that any shooting unit in the tomb kings army is suddenly going to make VC any more over powered than they already are.

>>46354649
how's the parkinson's treating ya?

>>46354198
I have to admit, that'd be interesting - instead of the disorder and anarchy usually associated with monsters, it'd be under a Chinese-like system of control and order - likely with some corruption, but far more orderly than most monsterous governments.

>Asuryan
Phoenix Guard
>Isha
Sisters of Avelorn
>Lileath/Ladrielle
Shadow Warriors, Grail Knights
>Khaine
Witch Elves
>Kurnous
Ellyrion Reavers, everything Wood Elf with a penis
>Mathlann
Lothern Seaguard
>Hoeth
Swordmasters, High Elf Mages
>Vaul
Dragon Princes
>Ereth Khial
Bloodwrack Medusa
>Anath Raema
Everything Wood Elf with a vagina
>Atharti
Literally Morathi


So who represents Nethu, Morai-Heg, Hekarti, Estrueth, Addaioth, Eldrazor, Ellinill, Hukon, and Drakira?

>>46354964
Forgot
>Loec
Wardancers

>>46354964
>Eldrazor
Eternal Guard

>Isha
Ariel, Sisters of the Thorn

>Ereth Khial
evil Dryads and Treemen

>Hekarti
Dark Elf sorceresses

>Drakira
Alith Anar, Shadow Warriors


have no fucking idea who others are.
I aknowledge only Kurnous, Isha, Loec and Eldrazor anyway. oh and Morai-Heg, she's cool.

>>46355190
Alith Anar was specifically named as Lileath's. So was Teclis. Along with them are the Brets as the only beings she's blessed. Maybe Eldyra, but that's arguable.

Mathlann is awesome.

>>46354964
>>46355190
Ereth Khial are Elves who fear Slaanesh.
Basically Dark Eldar. But they're hated by everyone including Dark Elf society, so they keep it on thw down low. Actually worshiping Slaanesh is less shameful than Ereth Khial.

>>46355355
End Times claim Alith Anar is Drakira incarnate

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>>46354649
>What did you guys get, and y u hate Ludwig?

Actually got Ludwig, and a bunch of other Empire goodies (knights, free company, cannon, Luthor Huss). I wasn't able to get my hands on Kurt Helborg or Leitdorf. I mad. Free company still hasn't sold out yet. I might pick up another box of them.

>>46355392
Seriously? Man, ET Khaine was shit.

I still count the 7e book where it says he's her mortal champion visiting her wrath on Malekith's heretic kind.

>Free Company sold out at Calivers
>no other company will have in stock / deliver fast / not cost and arm and a leg for P&P
I sad
I very sad

>>46354649
>y u hate Ludwig?
Already got one back when he came out.

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How does this work? Its the exact same kit.

>>46355486
different boxes though

Hurricanum & Luminarc are same box

>buy some skaven to start a fantasy army, 40 clanrats and a warlord
>get vermintide
>it's fun as fuck, witch Hunter is the best
>want an empire army now
Help
What do

>>46355486
it's not.
There's a separate sprue for each of the variants in there.
the altar has the statue and volkmar in it. you don't get that sprue with the other variants.

>>46355537
Empire didn't get squatted down as everyone else, and it sold well in the past so the secondary market is still decent.

What type of army do you want? As Witch Hunter as possible, or a militia with a single grizzled Witch Hunter overseeing?

You may want to play Mordheim instead of outright Fantasy. Smaller force.

>>46355537
buy empire army now before it's gone forever

>>46355537
do as I plan to do about all the armies I want and can't affod
>take 500 points. 750 at most.
>make list of models you want
>make 500pts army out of those models
>don't bother with power and balance at all, they'll make you buy more models
>make minimum sized units, so you'll be able to stick more variety from same box (i.e. two different 10man units out of 20man box)
>the number of points you settled on is hard limit. no going over it. no variant lists. just single list with hard limit. period.
this way you can afford all the models you want and still have playable armies

>>46354944
Thanks, but I'm having trouble considering how to expand it without going "Rome But In China" or the stereotypical Foo Lion-dogs, or edging in on Lizardman territory with Dragon men/Warriors

>Corruption
Yeah was reading up on Admiral Yi and having Tzneetchian corruption in the Prime Minister's court would be a big factor. Thought it'd be funny enough that after however many rock concerts and parades and best-selling novels the Dragon Emperor falls asleep dealing with a couple hundred years of backlogged legislation.

>>46355596
The hqs for empire seem so damn cool, more of the first option with elite infantry > large blobs

>>46355596
>Empire didn't get squatted down as everyone else,
most of their range is in the last chance ditch atm too.

>>46355629
Racism.

Sure, the Chaos and non-Chaos Cathayans are fighting for control. But the second literally anyone else shows up, Cathay unites to purge the outsiders.

>>46355654
Honestly, not really. It's mostly the named characters and like 1 unit for some reason.
Empire soldiers, greatswords, cavalry, ranged and cannons is still there

>>46355629
Oh, and on "Monstrous Nation" concept, Cathay and Nippon are in a millennia long pissing contest with Nippon trying to invade but usually getting beat up at sea, and Cathay sending out the occasional Kaiju to fuck with Nippon.

>>46355683
Isn't that every multicultural empire throughout history?

>>46355650
Step one is artillery and tanks. Decide what you want.

Step two is your Wizard.

Step three is filling up the rest of the army with what looks cool.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Empire

Note we don't have a tactica for 9th Age yet.

>>46355684
might depend on where you are then. knights and free company are gone last i checked.

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>>46355537
Your best bet is to pick up some heroes you like either from 3rd party or ebay then hit up some historicals

>>46355714
>Isn't that every multicultural empire throughout history?
Yep. But its new territory in Warhammer, barring Nehekhara uniting against Nagash twice. The Empire technically is always united, far more so than Nehekhara and Chaos/non Chaos anyway.

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>>46355537
Buy some soldiers

>>46355745

they don't even look like empire soldiers

Got 2 boxes of Empire Militia. Should I get a third one so that I'm future proof? Prolly should get Greatswords instead though.

>>46351990
Red/Blue Giant to keep the astrologic double meaning, Black Dwarf otherwise. Much better any of them.

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I want to start either a wood elf or vampire count army now that my orc army is mostly complete
Which army is more fun to play/paint?
What does a good, say 2500pts for them look like

>>46355537
buy the battalion if you want to get some knights while you still can

or get a single unit to keep yourself busy with

>>46355654
only named characters, free company and knights

>>46356222
and the generic characters.
what's left are the newer plastic kits.

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>>46355785
Could work, it'd help keep things distinct and help draw attention to the Han/Manchu divisions in modern China.

>>46355714
Riffing off of that, yeah Nippon should have Sengoku Jidai honnorabu samurai watashi weeaboo and all that. The Skaven got their ninjas from somewhere, after all. But if we go with the idea that Cathay has giant monsters, Nippon should get giant robots. Kickass giant robots powered by fighting spirit and dragonbone springs. Nippon uses all the wooden armor because almost all the iron goes into making giant katanas for the giant robots. Fuck yeah. Have them be mostly wooden though, just because. Well actually, if half the nations of Man are going to have horses descended from elven stock, then let the Nipponese have elven stardew trees to make giant robots out of.

http://youtu.be/i5zYK9FxORI

>>46356280
only the master engineer on mechanical steed as far as i'm aware

also fuck me the normal cannon/mortar is going as well
makes me rethink buying another empire battalion

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>>46355940
They are great foot knights aka greatswords.

Greatswords supposedly wear fullplate.

For state troops you probably want the merc box

>>46356382
>far as i'm aware
the regular champion with muskets, the dude with sword and shield etc are all gone too. everything that's not a plastic kit is basically gone.
And nearly the entire highelf range. Some Dwarf stuff too.
There are currently 8 pages worth of miniatures in the last chance category.

>>46356258
>you will never ghetto-hold your wheellock pistol while fighting greenskins
>you'll never fight with that one guy in the background who's clearly wacked up on some funky shit from Araby

Feels bad man

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>>46356596
The second death begins

>>46357128
>>you'll never fight with that one guy in the background who's clearly wacked up on some funky shit from Araby

>implying Gerhardt didn't accidentally swallow some blood from that crazy goblin who dervished himself to death in front of the company, and now he just feels super great and really excited to be at the battle, you guys

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>>46357173
Such is life.

>>46356562
Better picture of what you can make from that box set and the Wars of the Roses Infantry one. The sheer number of soldiers you get in those boxes are perfect for the Empire.

>trying to do the captcha
>pictures change when I click on them

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>>46357173
>you will never scream your way into promotions and glory

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>>46357415
>When you bust a nut so hard the whole Empire feels it

Hey I just bought a night goblin army to play fantasy with, me and my friends all starting a small army. I just need the most recent ork codex and rulebook right? Not a codex specifically for goblins?

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>>46355714
Continuing with the theme, have jiangshi as part of the bureaucracy in the form of vampires the Dragon Emperor has given his blood to. They're basically the Supreme Court and in charge of making sure new laws are in line with laws set down by the Emprah, like a Chinese game of Dorf Fortress.

>>46357926
The Orcs and Goblins book. It might depend on what edition you're playing, but check in the pastebin for any relevant PDFs.

>>46357926
Correct. Just the orcs and goblins army book and the main rule book.

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>>46357926
Orcs and goblins have one book. You can also freely add orc and other goblin types to your force if you so choose. Night gobbos are just a small subsector of the greenskin army

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>>46357948
Keep as regular vampires who claim taxes of rice and blood. Warhammer has actual group of arguably the greatest warriors in the world trying to get dragon blood to emulate their founder, and over thousands of years how many have succeeded? Have any?

Handing that to a bunch of random guys is complete bullshit.

>>46344522
Clownfag had the right idea, if you can use the optional rules to burn down the forests.

>>46358025
I have always loved Night Goblins.

Better buy some more before the inevitable squat and/or repack.

>>46358130
>Coming soon! Darkgrotkin Fungitroop!
>twelve regular Night Goblins on round bases
>you can see where the paint has been damaged during their transfer

please no

>>46358130
I love the little guys.

They are a nice play on typical goblins.

Does anybody else do models that resemble GW river trolls?

>>46358230
I-is it photoshop? Please tell me they just photoshop them onto the circle bases anon.

Why does it even matter bases don't matter in age of circles. They may as wel be squares.

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>>46358249
They're a little bit chaosy, but russian alternative does these 3 for 20 bucks.

>>46358063
Meh, was planning on (a) there only being like nine of the fuckers and (b) justification to have them locked up for eternity doing paperwork. Thinking about driving home an idea that monsters feel like tools and nothing more, while humans think they're permanent welfare cases. Blood And Rice is probably a better idea but I don't want these guys to be prolific either.

Incidentally what's a unique spin on Guardian Lions? You think I should go with the standard metal statues come to life or go with oversized Chow-Chows/Tibetan Mastiffs?

>>46358266
I'd say that most of the miniatures you see have been transferred.

As for why they matter, I have no idea. I guess GW has a fetish for round bases.

>>46358245
They are also one of the few things sold by GW that did not have its price set by a crazy person.

>>46358230
I would prefer the dignified death.

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>>46358325
Damn, forgot pic. This is a Tibetan Mastiff in full attack mode.

>>46358385
I would buy a tibetan mastiff warhound unit

>>46358325
>Thinking about driving home an idea that monsters feel like tools and nothing more, while humans think they're permanent welfare cases

In that case you can't make them dragon-drinkers, because they'll have overcome all the limits vampire have and be Ubermensch. I do like the idea of them being locked up in the palace basement doing endless reams of paperwork on the vampiric equivalent of starvation rations (blood drained, bottled in jars with salt and soy that partially pickle it for transport across the empire) until each one inevitably snaps and tries to break out to really drink.

>Wang Fu got out through a secret tunnel he dug under his desk and got into a peasant's house. The survivors are being tutored in mathematics and tax law, they'll be joining the Bureaucracy in 20 years or so.

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Trying to work on my chaos dwarf army for 9th ed without putting my money in Forge World's pockets.

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>>46358522
Yeah Dragondrinking was a bad idea to make it why you'd want immortal bureaucrats. It's probably better as the fate of all vampires in Cathay.

>"Baron Von Jiangshi, you are hereby sentences to three consecutive life sentences on the charge of murders in the first degree. After which you will be offered death, or an additional eternity in civil service."

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>>46358794
good on you anon

How is titan forges quality? It's amazing to me they have so many good sculpts but managed to fuck up the dwarf infantry so bad.

I'm thinking of picking up stuff from their Vampire Warbosses line

Is the HE Battalion a good deal?

>>46359038
Plenty of their concepts are fucking WIN, but yeah, most infantry got borked,
They vehicles/monsters are awsome though, and quality is pretty decent.

Those russian alternatives work wonders once glued together, which can be a bitch with that radiation infested beast of metal which they call lead.

>>46359327

Nope. Only the Helms are good sculpts, the archers/spearelves writhe from the monkey hand syndrome. If you don't mind those sculpts tho, it is a very good deal point/model-wise, $3 per model especially that you get a chariot and 8 cavs isn't something you'll usually find at GW

>>46359476

Well, the chariot is a really nice sculpt as well, but that's only one model

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>>46358960
One last one, I think I'm going to work through an actual list before continuing to post. This is the xiezhi, otherwise referred to the "fire-breathing goat of justice". Described as being somewhere between a unicorn and a velociraptor, this thing has an innate sense of right and wrong, and was used as a professional character witness in mythology, usually by headbutting guilty parties. How's that for a witch-hunter?

>>46359355
Glue, tissue papers. Holds like cement.

>>46359476
Thanks!

>>46352116
I like the idea of Cathay using tons of non human auxiliaries. In a way they'd be sort of the opposite of the empire. Instead of the best aspects of mankind coming together to triumph over the perils of the world, Humans are pretty much the weakest ones in cathay and rely on either enhanced, god touched humans or Monsters to remain as powerful as they are now. At their core they'd be red cliff, but with a bunch of animated statues, war machines, magic objects and other races. Both times that cathay was featured in the fluff, there are human archers, crossbowmen and elite swordsmen, but the Majority of the fighting seems to be done by terra-cotta warriors, a breed of one horned ogres, golden dragons, and an assortment of animated statues. Cathay kind of reminds me of empire meets high elves meets tomb kings when they were still alive. I don't think theres anything wrong with playing up the cliches, isn't that what warhammer thrives on? Warhammer is a collection of cliches and stereotypes and we still love it. Trying to turn Cathay into something totally new and unique when the background kinda hints at them being blatantly notchipan kinda does them a disservice.

As for Nippon, I think they should be the bretonnia to the Cathays Empire. All Sammurai, basically armies of bretonian knights but with ranged weapon options, or shitty peasant archers and spearmen. Not too many beasts, not too many non-humans. The Ninjas should almost play as their own factions fighting against the samurai, as it was in real life.

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>>46359811
Heros and lords include a statue maker engineer sort, lots of celestial and metal wizards mounted on horse of statue carried litter, and commanders mounted on horse or dragon.

Core is all human except perhaps cathayn ogres, includes archers, swords, spears, and crossbows, mastiffs

Special is elite humans and ogres, animated statue mega tarpits, light lancers and archer cav, maybe some chariots

Rare is cathayn giants, rocket infantry, giant animated statue of some sort, artillery.

Has strong infantry but lacks shock cav and requires a mage or engineer to keep their statues under control/alive in a similar way to vamp counts. Without statues they pretty much have no real anvil. Also for lore I prefer the dragon emperor just being a mega celestial wizard king a few steps below nagash and a few steps above gelt. Probably just a bit over teclis. Considering he literally created the great maw, he's definitely stronk.

r8

>>46358794
Check armies of unsupported age of course. IMO Russian Alternative looks the best where avaliable

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>>46360128
Their new chaos slayers are interesting.

Also they are incredibly affordable. Mom also has some sweet ones.

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>>46360157
Shame there isn't a good bull centaur unit. Mantic makes some...ok ones. They're mantic.

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>>46360157
Oh, those are pretty rockin, they out for sale yet or just proof of concept?

>>46360187
>Mantic makes some...ok ones.
No, just no.

Their golems were decent to run as K'daii, but in 9th ed they got updated with the "fly" rule, which suddenly turned them very... Un-thematic.

>>46361036
They're for sale.

Mom is based, He's working on boar cav right now I think.

That block of 20 infantry is 20 euros

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>>46360092
>>46359811
>r8
8/10

I like the list well enough, but need to see where Cathay's been described in the fluff. The terra cotta implacable army is a decent cliche but it's worth exploring the crazy stuff in actual Chinese history. Considering the tradition of insanely clever Chinese generals, I'd probably include a modern master of mindgames named general character with a random roll for abilities like putting any unit in ambush, waiting for the enemy to fully deploy their units before deploying, debuffing enemy leadership tests, etc.

>>46362654
I'd like to see a generic hero choice that was more of a support unit than a combat champion. He might be able to order units near him to move further/deployment shenanigans of some sort, that sort of thing but be barely a step up from a unit champion in combat ability.

>>46362900
I think that should be the over all theme of cathayn lords and heros. Supportive in some one but not directly murderous. Except maybe a dragon lord. Everything else would be clever commanders, statue craters, wizards that sort of thing

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>>46362948
The problem with that is that the game emphasizes having killy heroes, with challenges, forced into front ranks, and plenty of magic items built specifically to deal with characters. It would be tricky to make a bunch of support heroes who work; maybe having a Minister and Vizier for a Hero and Lord choice (based off the Paymaster from Dogs of War?), alongside a more martial hero and the obligatory wizards.

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>>46352164
>No anon you're just afraid of change.
This will NEVER EVER be a good argument.

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>>46363634
9001 hours/10

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>>46352164
>khemri can still be not egypt
>just less not egypt for no gain whatsoever

>Yea but that's one specific build that's absolutely not an indication of the over all power level of necromancers ie: being used in almost literally every list

>not an argument

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>>46358960
On the subject of Cathayan Vampires, there is this.
Not exactly official, but written by one of the authors of Night's Dark Masters.

Plus, what even is canon any more.

>>46365545
Everything Pre-Crisis

>>46367224
I sure hope that shield isn't stuck on

>>46367256
Its part of the sculpt, sadly.

Left is Lothern Sea Guard, right is Spearmen.

LSG are only a few years old, Spearmen date back about twenty years. Both got squatted at the same time.

rumours say Tzeentch board game (and presumably other minis) are coming Soon(tm).

gonna be nice to see some change from Khorne/Nurgle, even if I won't buy anything from GW

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>>46367607
They'll probobly be more over designed over priced garbage, who cares what gw puts out anymore

>>46367607
>More Chaos
I guess its not Sigmarines or Khorne so its at least a slight improvement.

>>46367643
Remember.
$90 for three characters, or $70 for one on a base.

>>46346167

I just bought a big batch of chaos off ebay. Can't wait to get my hands on them and share the awesome "pro" paintjob with you. Gonna be pretty gruesome judging by the blurry shitstain photos I've received.

Welp, I guess its one way to spend my weekend, brushing little plastic men with a toothbrush.

>>46367643
well, tzeentch is SUPPOSED to be overdesigned
that's his shtick in-universe

>>46367607
We should get a wave of greenskins before that tho

>faction is called Chaos
>faction has clearly defined sub-factions with clearly defined agendas and spheres, and is utterly predictable

>Greenskins
>absolutely chaotic and unpredictable
>ain't called Chaos

where's logic in that?

>>46347449

Whats up with ebay pricing as of late btw, some peeps are fucking delusional as to what their minis are worth.

>Selling an opened blister for more than it is straight from gw
>Selling assembled minis for more than the retail price
>Selling bits for insane prices, like five swords for 10 bucks

People are fucking insane. Even more so if they buy this shit.

>>46367224
When will Elflets learn

>>46367785
They are called Chaos because they were born from Chaos as in the Warp as in the Realm of Chaos. From the chaotic depths of infinite possibility, formed from the contradicting dreams and sinful desires of mankind, they were born.

It's not a statement of how they act. It's a statement of their origin.

>>46367829
I was confused by this too until I realized they sell things for more than GW does because they can offer lower shipment costs to some countries.

(e.g. shipping 20 quid box from GW to my country would cost 10 quid, so it would make sense to pay 25 quid with 2 quid shipping to some asshole ebay reseller)

>>46367785
>where's logic in that?
History: Chaos started chaotic and way more individual than orcs&goblins; where they are horde army chaos was about the path to glory of the single and the focus was the diverse and bizarre heroes; then chaos got expanded more and each one of those themes for heroes became themes for units and subfactions even, reaching the point where we are today with gods acting as personified beings and chaos organized under a Mary sue of apocalyptic proportions, all happened because the faction could so sell by feeling important.

In the meanwhile orcs don't get expanded upon and are left with little to no innovations since the aesthetic crafted by Brian nelson

>>46367843
Shouldn't your origins have close ties with how you act?

>>46367785
>greenskins
>faction has clearly defined sub-factions with clearly defined agendas and spheres, and is utterly predictable

Greenskins aren't lolrandom, they just don't follow conventional logic. They'll take over a city just to prove they can then leave because they got bored of not having anyone to fight. But their agendas are pretty much always as defined as those of chaos.

>>46367843
Chaos as the Warp is fucking orderly and predictable as well, gods having clearly defined spheres of influence, identities and agendas.

Chaos is unchaotic as fuck. Now, it was Zelyazni, it would pass off as wonderful irony (i.e. in Chronicles of Amber the Courts of Chaos are governed by strict rules and traditions, while Amber is chaotic clusterfuck)

>>46367892
>They'll take over a city just to prove they can then leave because they got bored of not having anyone to fight.
yes, that's called lolrandom

>>46367888
not really. for instance, UK origins are a mighty world-spanning empire. UK acts like US's little bitch.

>>46367888
They are still contradictory and utterly unreasonable, as you said. However there is an order and method to their madness.

>>46367702
No, one kit and a monster.
With far more models squatted than added.

>>46367843
Origins in man is only in 40k, in Fantasy Chaos predated life.

>>46367912
>Chaos as the Warp is fucking orderly and predictable as well, gods having clearly defined spheres of influence, identities and agendas.

You are mistaking the Chaos Gods for the Warp/Chaos.

Chaos is infinite and can be anything. every dream and emotion a sentient being felt, is reality inside the Realm of Chaos. Please tell me that isn't chaotic.

>>46367684
No, his shtick is that he's nonsensical and irregular. You can make something looked warped and mutated and not overdesign it. Overdesign is just failing to understand that a nice mini needs a good split between detail and negative space

>>46367912
>yes, that's called lolrandom
Not really.
Back when Orcs bred sexually it made no sense, but since 5e Orcs were fungus monsters who grow in blood. So they need to fight to breed, no fight means nothing to gain.

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>>46367959
The opposite. 40K says that all sentient life created the Chaos Gods.

in WHFB (picture related), it says mankind created the Chaos Gods.

Remember that time is meaningless in the Realm of Chaos.
Hordes of Chaos

>>46367871
Goddamn I am so excited for pantheon of chaos

>>46367971
>every dream and emotion a sentient being felt, is reality inside the Realm of Chaos.
That's 40k lore, not Fantasy.
In Fantasy you have emotions because of magic, because souls are magic. Chaos is when magic has sapience. Undead are technically Daemons bounds to objects. Said objects being their dead bodies.

In 40k Chaos is the echo of souls impressed on a formerly undefined potential.

>>46367971
are you saying mortals aren't utterly predictable? and before you throw my argument about orcs back at me - orcs' thoughts and emotions are primitive and predictable. their actions are chaotic.

>>46368016
Wrong. See (>>46368002).

I am seeing a problem with the fantasy community. People have poor grasp of the lore and are totally into fanfiction and headcanon.

>>46368002
Yeah, I hate to tell you but that's non-canon as fuck. It relies on the idea Asuryan, Gork and Mork, and so on are all constructs of the Warp built by belief wheras that shit has been non-canon longer than it was canon in the first place.

We know for a fact the Warhammer gods are not just Chaos creations of man. Meaning that's retconned entirely.

>>46368016
>That's 40k lore, not Fantasy.
Realm of chaos lore is both for 40k and fantasy

>undead are daemons bound to object
Your definition of daemonic entity seems pretty loose

>>46368032
Suck a chode, that shit was retconned when you were still in high school. Even the 8e Core lore section says Chaos predates everyone, and that's the last canon edition of the game.

Chaos existed before life did other than the Old Ones and gods actually exist as non-Chaos beings. Now fuck off back to the Age thread, Carnac. You can fap to Archaon and Khorne all you want there.

>>46368021
>are you saying mortals aren't utterly predictable?

Take every thought, desire, and emotion any mortal creature across the whole existence had and throw inside a dimension.

Are you seriously going to tell me that this turbulent dimension of conflicting emotions and dreams is going to be predictable?

>>46368064

Nope, it hasn't been retconned.

>Even the 8e Core lore section says Chaos predates everyone, and that's the last canon edition of the game.

Utterly irrelevant.

If you read the 8th ED army book well or any Chaos army book or source, then you would know that time has no meaning in the Realm of Chaos. There is no linear time.

Now take a chill pill and settle down, spaz.

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>>46368047
>Expansion for Warhammer Roleplay 1st edition
>Canon
Pick one

>people trying to force logic and chronologic to chaos

When will they learn, I swear, when will they get that two contradicting statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive when talking about chaos?

>>46368081
>warhammer lore
>canon aka AoS
There's only one true answer left

>>46368079
Yeah, because a small fluffbook written in 1988 for a totally separate game from Fantasy Battles totes supersedes the 2010 core rules.

Look, good news for you is old GW policy is there is no canon and you can cherry pick lore. Because otherwise your shit is totally irrelevant and has been longer than you've been alive.

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>>46368064
Christ don't be such an autist

Chaos existed always but was given shape by the thoughts of the old ones and their creations, because chaos is and always has been the reflection of souls, hence the reason the gods seek the feed themselves by causing more of their particular emotion. Chaos didn't even show up to get its 20 dollars back from the old ones until mankind and friends already existed and already shaped it in their mental image.

Undead are not daemons either thats completely silly, they are either corpses powered by magic or mortals living unlife with magic, they aren't corpses possessed by chaos entities

>>46368102
Hordes of Chaos was the army book for Chaos armies back in 6th ED.Its lore hasn't been overwritten by anything new.

You just proven yourself to be a newfag acting as poser.

Your only argument is that Chaos predates stuff which is I addressed by pointing out that the very same book you are referring (and probably never really read) says that time is meaningless in the Realm of Chaos. What happened or will happen in the Realm of Chaos does not follow a linear sequence. This means even if the Chaos Gods were born from humanity, they will predate them because in the Realm of Chaos time doesn't factor much.

I regret having started this discussion.
Warhammer Chaos fluff discussion always making me depressed because it's made entirely of wasted potential and missed opportunities. instead of marrying Lovecraftian eldritch horror and incomprehensible deities with Moorcock's Chaos, they went for... whatever Chaos is now. D&D gods, that's what the Four are. comprehensible, defines, with pretty mortal-like urges and emotions, just more powerful.

>>46368065
yes. electrons behave absolutely chaotically. yet atoms are quite rigid structures and matter is perfectly orderly.

>>46368100
AoS is an odd case actually.
According to that game, all of life and Chaos were bound in a universal Groundhog Day until that one time it wasn't because...reasons that aren't elaborated on but had something to do with this Be'lakor being different from all those that came before him.

Which kind of means nothing has an origin, all of reality was a perpetual paradox.

>>46368079
There is no linear time in real life actually. We only percieve there to be, but it has been proven that time is actually a measure of matter rather than some totally distinct measure in and of itself. Since we ourselves are matter we inherently are part of that measurement as is all things we percieve, but a theoretical ghost with a soul made of up 0% energy would see all things at one "moment".
The concept is clumsily explored in Watchmen with Dr. Manhattan.

So anytime fiction uses "no linear time" as a plot device they are basically using "fire is a substance rather than a chemical reaction" or "maggots magically appear on rotten meat" level outdated bullshit.

>>46368152
so you're saying mortals created chaos who created mortals who created chaos who created...

and the only way to defeat chaos is not wipe out mortals (been done before), but wipe them out so hard they never existed?

>>46368152
>According to that game, all of life and Chaos were bound in a universal Groundhog Day until that one time it wasn't because...reasons that aren't elaborated on but had something to do with this Be'lakor being different from all those that came before him.

As a guy who read WHFB and AoS lore, what the heck are you on about?

>>46368133
>Chaos didn't even show up to get its 20 dollars back from the old ones until mankind and friends already existed and already shaped it in their mental image.
Except the magic the Old Ones used came from the shattered Tzeentch.

Also, when discussing canon you have to let the autism speak. No normal human beings give enough of a shit to argue on the internet on a Vietnamese Hentai forum about fiction.

>>46368172
>and the only way to defeat chaos

We have been over this, anon.

Archaon was destined to destroy Chaos once and for all because he was the chosen one. Chaos/Be'lakor subverted that destiny and made him fall to darkness.

Our only option is to redeem Archaon back to the light so that he can fulfill his destiny.

>>46368179
You realize that "Chaos did things in the past" angle doesn't work? Past, future, and present it means nothing to them because they live in a place where there is no time!

>>46368175
The bit about Lileath and her new world, which was actually stated to have been identical to the old one.

Eldyra was Ereth Khial, Araloth was Asuryan. Lileath was her own mother. The cycle was stated quite plainly to be eternal, Chaos destroys the old world to claim tjeir stolen power, but power is stolen from Chaos to create the new one which Chaos plots to reclaim.

The only thing that caused Age of Sigmar rather than Warhammer Fantasy: Neolithic was Be'lakor finding out about Lileath's seed to a new setting and doing whatever he did to make it vanish.

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>>46368102
t.BRB 8th edition

Pls go dunning Kruger man

>>46368201
oh fuck off for fuck's sake!

>>46368179
Old ones/dragon ogres/giants/other og races are probolby responsible for the formation of the chaos gods initially

>>46368207
Except that falls apart when every instance of Chaos lore that isn't literally stating "there is no time" shows a natural progression of events from moment to moment. Meaning there IS time, but as Be'lakor demonstrated in Archaon's novels there is time-travel and destiny alteration/creation.

That is a major difference. If there is no time in the Warp, all beings exist only in one state. A perpetual unchanging state.

Yet as the journey of Warhammer Dante shows, time DOES exist in the Warp. Games Workshop simply tells you it doesn't, then shows that it does.

Slaanesh cannot craft cups for the other Chaos Gods in a timeless plane for example. Cups cannot be crafted because either they always existed, or never existed at all and cannot ever exist.

>>46368209
I know about the cycle but....

>which was actually stated to have been identical to the old one.

I know that it's stated that the Elven legends and story of their gods will repeat but where is it stated it will be identical?

>The only thing that caused Age of Sigmar rather than Warhammer Fantasy

And the intervention of the Old Ones in the world. They messed with the Elves and created the Warp Gates which all led to the formation of the winds of magic which lead to the creation of vortex which lead to the creation of the incarnates which led to the winds of magic escaping into space and then manifesting as realms of their own.

>>46368213
It says that's the form they take, not their origin.
Learn to fucking read.

>>46368253
Old Ones are a monkey wrench in GW's canon.

They predate all life and created it. They knew the Chaos Gods existed.

We never learned anything sbout them or where they came from, only that they accidently brought greenskins. Its possible the Lizardmen turned Seraphon would have been the Old Ones creating themselves, but who knows. GW only wants to talk about Khorne, Archaon, and Sigmar so we'll never know.

>really like knights of the blazing sun
>conversion kit no longer exists
>knightly orders box no longer exist

dammit i actually liked the idea of making an imperial army themed around them

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>>46353042
>In fact most chinese miniatures for historicals look like shit
Assault Group miniatures has a historically accurate Sui-Tang range their Song range needs some work(helmets or lack of).

>>46353163
>>46353325
>Ming range
Friend of mine making a 28mm Ming range based on historically accurate(not Ospreys) sources.

http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=84196.0

>>46368308
you can make an army themed around STORMCASTS OF THE STORMBLAZING SUNHAMMER instead

just wait for a 50-quid conversion kit with a few shields and decals

>>46368308
Its okay, GW just hates your money now.

File: IMAG0618.jpg (1MB, 2688x1520px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2688x1520px

>>46368257
>say something completely totally wrong
>"no"
>cry autistically

Pretty sad m8

t.most recent WoC book

>>46368236
>Slaanesh cannot craft cups for the other Chaos Gods in a timeless plane for example. Cups cannot be crafted because either they always existed, or never existed at all and cannot ever exist.
CHAOS