Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>Pandaren punching sharks edition
I would like to play a troll-only campaign in Stranglethorn Vale with lots of infighting, intrigue, and headhunting.

I suppose this is a good place to ask, but why? I love the setting as much if not more than the next person, having been a young faggot that was raised on WC3 and was on Vanilla Day 1 with my Collector's Edition. But Blizzard clearly doesn't give a shit about this setting anymore, and the longer it goes on, the longer the well becomes polluted. I mean, when I have to immediately add "ignoring the last three-four expansions" anytime I talk about Azeroth and wanting to play in it, it just sort of makes me wonder why even bother.

I loved Azeroth more than maybe any other setting save perhaps Krynn, but is it not time to put the old girl down and let her rest?

>>46341488
>1488
t. Othmar "Highbourne Harryer" Garithos

>>46341636
>I mean, when I have to immediately add "ignoring the last three-four expansions"
the writing degraded, not the settings. Pandaria and Draenor are just as interesting as Kalimdor and the EK, the only difference is what happens in them got dumber

>>46341636

I think most of us are fags who were raised on WC1, WC2, WC3, or early WoW. For most of us, I think these games were pretty big deals during our childhoods. Maybe even the first exposure to fantasy, for some. I think that Warcraft has something special about it, some sort of pop-fantasy comic book vibe, that makes latch onto a young person's imagination. The people that post in these threads, IMO, would probably keep posting in them for the next 50 years, if they could.

>>46341701
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. From the treatment of Cata, to Dank Memes Pandaria, to the clusterfuck of Draenor and its genesaurs and magnagronns and saberons, I have to struggle to thing of anything worth inclusion that's been released since Wrath.

>>46341718
And I'm right there with you. Again, Warcraft, Redwall, and Dragonlance were my jams as a kid growing up. But at some point, don't we have to realie that Krynn has been squatted, that Brian Jacques is dead, and that Blizzard will never remember that goblins are rapidly devolving into troglodytes and lose knowledge/understanding of their tech every day.

>>46341805
Pandaria and new Draenor's background lore is actually pretty good
It opens up a lot more stuff to explore about.
The story is what shit them up, not the background setting.

>>46341805
>goblins are rapidly devolving into troglodytes and lose knowledge/understanding of their tech every day.
elaborate

>>46341805
>Dank Memes Pandaria
Aside from the forest hozen and the Stormstout brewery, I don't recall anything egregious in Pandaland. What was so bad about it?

>>46342035
Basically, goblins as you know them are only a result of the kajamite that was found within the depths of Mount Kajaro. It was a magical ore that the trolls of the island used the goblins as slave labor to mine, but extensive contact with the magical material turned the primitive savages into extremely cunning and inventive little bastards. Over time, the enslaved goblins began to build and invent, stockpile and prepare, and eventually they overthrew their masters and ruled the island of Kezan as their own. Mining of kajamite skyrocketed, and while the goblins managed to hurl themselves ahead centuries of development in years, they quickly found themselves low on the precious ore.

That is actually the reason that the goblins have such a widespread presence on Azeroth is that as the end of kajamite loomed over the goblins, the Trade-Princes sent explorers and tradesmen across all the corners of Azeroth looking for more of their precious brain-boosting crack. Unfortunately, no supply was ever discovered, and lacking the boost from kajamite, goblins found themselves entirely dependent on their stockpiles. The peak of goblin intelligence occurred roughly 500 years before the First War, and they have been plummeting ever since. The difficulty is amplified by the fact that goblins seem unwilling to admit that there is an issue, and thus they continue to tinker and toy with devices that they simply don't comprehend.

Basically, the reason that every goblin device explodes is because that is very quickly becoming one of the only things that they can reliable get their devices to do. That satchel charge? Actually an automatic jewelry cleaner, but Zappo isn't willing to admit he doesn't know what it does, so he pours it full of seaforium and calls it a day. Likewise, the increasing danger of goblin technology pushes them ever faster towards the brink as the few gifted inventors rarely live long enough to preserve any knowledge they are capable of unlocking.

>>46342321
Pandaria all of a sudden in the South Seas as opposed to west of Kalimdor.

Pandaren all of a sudden Chinese because Blizzard had to appease the Chink Masters.

More Old God bullshit.

Zul'YetAgain, the final RIPening of the Zandalari.

An entire expansion of Kung Fu Panda cash-ins, including the requisite So Kewl Animal Races.

The sloppiest implementation of a Neutral race possible.

>>46342342
And your source on the degeneration is...?

>>46342679
>Dark Factions
>Horde Player's Guide
>Even the Cata Game Manual, I think

>>46341488
At first I thought he was strangling a Threshadon, but then I saw the tiny arms coming out of the neck.

Also that Leviathan with the ship speared into it is silly.

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What's up with those Werewolf people? I remember seeing a few threads about them on /v/, that they had a city that CLOSED WALL when the plague spread.

Didn't they get anything decent, lorewise?

>>46342714
So two non-canon sources and one you're not sure about. Noted.

>>46342749
Play through the goblin starting quests, its talked about there

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>>46342724
they're going to make the Alliance great again

>>46342749
>Taking well-written books of flavor and fluff that stretch back to WC3 and have at various points been considered canon as less reliable sources than OOK EM IN THE DOOKER.

So, I guess that explains why I feel embarrassed for modern WoW fans.

>>46342403
>Pandaren all of a sudden Chinese because Blizzard had to appease the Chink Masters.
They've been Chinese since TFT finished beta.


>Pandaria all of a sudden in the South Seas as opposed to west of Kalimdor.
Its location was never stated in anything canon, the noncanon RPG books may have implied it was in the Veiled seas, but having it as a former part of the Kalimdor supercontinent fit the story integration better.


>>46342403
>Zul'YetAgain, the final RIPening of the Zandalari.
But Pandaria actually explained how so many Zandalari turned "evil." It's Chronicles and maybe the Vol'jin book I haven't read yet since I can't find a decent digital copy without so many transcription errors my eyes bleed that made them "Mostly evil."

>>46342724
>Didn't they get anything decent, lorewise?
No, they've been constantly shit on lorewise.

>>46342342
A few sources mention that the loss of Kajamite has reduced their overall brainpower, but it seems to have hit its
"New Normal" according to records by Brann Bronzebeard and others.

>>46342800
The Warcraft RPGs had some good fluff and some bad fluff, much like the new game itself. I like to take the least grim and player-gimpng mix of it. Which in the case of Goblin inteligence means it's generally reached its "New bottom" and won't continue to decline.

>>46342403
Pandaren were always Chinese ever since Chen showed up in TFT with a stereotypical fat Chinese guy accent.
The only real change from then was that it's not on the back of a giant turtle floating around the seas anymore but now an actual continent.

>>46341805
>Pandaria
>not evoking a feeling of exploration and discovery
>...when not focused on the faction conflict

>>46342774
Kajamite boosts goblin intelligence, but it works like comic book radiation: It's giving them superpowers through beneficial mutation. In this case, it's relative super intelligence.

The reason running out of kajamite is such a big deal isn't that goblins will degenerate into drooling morons without it. The issue is that they won't get any smarter, and kajamite consumption is their primary means of technological development and innovation. Their technological progress has stalled, not shrunk.

Kaja'Cola: It gives you ideas!

>>46342984
People like you probably even deny the existance of phlogiston and steam armor. Fuck, I thought these threads might be useful, but instead it's just pathetic.

>>46342403
>Pandaria all of a sudden in the South Seas as opposed to west of Kalimdor.
Was this actually a thing? I can't find anything about it.

>Pandaren all of a sudden Chinese because Blizzard had to appease the Chink Masters.
That's been the case since fucking TFT in 2003.

>More Old God bullshit.
You know, I'll agree that featuring Old God stuff three expansions in a row was pretty dumb. That said, at least the connection between the Sha and the Old Gods didn't become blatant until SoO, for what it counts.

>Zul'YetAgain, the final RIPening of the Zandalari.
Eh, at least this time around they were fleshed out somewhat. Might have been polishing a turd, but considering what Cataclysm had already done to the zandalari, it was as respectable a send-off as they could get.

>An entire expansion of Kung Fu Panda cash-ins, including the requisite So Kewl Animal Races.
Seriously wondering if you're not just baiting here. Pandaria and KFP have almost nothing in common.

>The sloppiest implementation of a Neutral race possible.
Even if I were to agree, how is that, or half the other stuff you mentioned, "dank memes"?

>>46342724
In-Game most of the Gilneas storyline gets told in the Silverpine and Hillsbrad zones. Zones that, since Cataclysm, are Horde zones.

So yeah, the Gilnean resistance and the 7th Legion get hit hard by Sylvanus "If it praises the Light, cover it in Blight" Windrunner, all never seen from the Alliance side.

>>46342984
>tfw still have a stack of Kaja'Cola on a Goblin character
I like to imagine they sell it for large amounts of gold a few years down the line.

>>46342714
According to the Goblin Starting Zone, there was Kajamite on the Island, it was starting to deplete but there was enough to regularly be mined.
Infact one of the starting quests has you gather up some of it. Then when Kezan goes boom, you end up on the lost isles and find a Kajamite mine there which you quickly stake a claim to and begin mining from. Gallywix even starts a large mine on the main island where he enslaves a bunch of the goblins and you have to save them.

>>46343017
The RPG is considered non-canon, man. Not that I think phlogiston isn't an interesting element to the setting, but still.

>>46343067
And then the island blows up, and we never speak of it again!

>>46343017
Keep wanking about your info that wasn't considered canon when it was written, friend.

All of the RPG fluff was pretty explicit that it was ideas that might become canon, but weren't canon just because they showed up in the rulebooks.

>>46343017
>muh non canon bullshit is non canon!
Waaah!

>>46343037
>Sylvanus "If it praises the Light, cover it in Blight" Windrunner
Can I steal that?

>>46342403
>>46342872
>>46343029
I've always played it as seperate groups of Pandaren. The South Seas Pandaria and Wandering Isles Pandaren are Chinese Style and the Kalimdor Pandaren are Japanese Style.
If they ever meet, it involves alot of arguing and showing off over who's styles of Martial Arts and Brewing is better, then they all get drunk and pass out.

>>46343119
>Kalimdor Pandaren
What Kalimdor Pandaren?
The only one we ever see from there is Chen, who makes it clear when you see him in TFT that he's just visiting.

>>46343081
The Volcano erupts, but it doesn't destroy the Lost Isle mine. That part is post eruption if I remember right, right before Thrall shows up and spanks down Gallywix then goes "Okay, the Goblins need a leader so I guess you're forgiven."

AND THEN WE NEVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN

>>46342788
>We could have had vol'jin and perhaps vellan, as loathed by many as he is, heading the attack on the legion as a begruging bundle of allies
>Instead we have sylvannis and Greymane dragging the whole of alliance and horde into their feud as the necessary justification for a two faction system and pvp.

perhaps i'm wrong and horrendously uninformed when I say that Vellan was possibly applicable for alliance leadership rather than someone like greymane who's been chosen by virtue of standing stock still next to the throne for years. I just wish vol'jin had remained head of the hoard, lord knows why he dissapeared.

Also, in regards to the maddening parallel universe fuckery that came with WoD, our Prophet Vellan is alright, correct? it was alternate draenor's Vellan that ate it hard in zone one?

I miss vanilla Sylvanas.

In fact, I miss the vanilla factions as a whole

>>46343144
It's what I call the ones from the RPG books back when they had a Japanese Theme.

>>46343183
Not canon.
Nigger.
Orcs had Jap-themed armor in the concepts for WoW.
Doesn't mean shit if it's not in actual canon.

>>46343037
I still have that dragon egg from the end of the badlands questline, never use it but i'm far too much of a sentimental bastard to trash it or sell it

>>46343213
I thought this was a WoW Lore and RPG Discussion thread. Doesn't matter if it's not canon, it's how I use them when I run RPGs.
It gives a neat Dynamic as well.
If you want to stick with what's canon, /v/ is that way.

>>46343244
>That spoiler
Never forget Rhea's sacrifice... even if Wrathion is a little shit.

>>46343244
My Warlock still has a Firestone and a Spellstone in my bank.
Completely worthless for the past, what? Four expansions?

>>46343244
I personally like to imagine the same Rogue that got the Daggers did those quests. A bit of symmetry there.

>>46343278
My Hunter has a quiver full of arrows. I've also got a bunch of the old class shirts I wear.

>>46343265
I used /slap on him regularly and would frequently summon Rhea's child to play with in the inn just to spite him in my head.

>>46343302
I still have my Dartol's Rod of Transformation.
Never finished the quest so I could keep turning into a Furbolg.

>>46343278
I also still have the mats needed to summon the Dreadsteed in Dire Maul.
And a few of the shadowy potions that make you friendly with the demons in Jaedenar.

>>46343256
No, by RPG Discussion, they actually mean
>YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO ABIDE BY METZEN'S SACRED CHILD
>NO DEVIATION
>NO USING THE RPG BOOKS
>NOW TELL ME KNAAK IS YOUR GOD

>tfw Blizzard got so fed up with people comparing the draenei and protoss that they went and gave the draenei dragoons

>>46343393
Samefagging to soothe your asspain just makes you look even more pathetic.

>>46343393
That's bullshit and you know it. Most of these threads include tons of people complaining about the current direction of lore, and ways to fix it.

Just seems like most people draw the line at the RPG.

>>46343393
>I'm butthurt because I got called out on claiming a non-canon source was canon.

>>46343328
THey made it a reward for the quest in Cata, but gave it a fucking twenty minute plus cooldown for a 3 minute transform, and made the quest item only work in Ashenvale. Modern Blizzard fucking HATES cosmetic items.

>>46343393
Nah, you're allowed to mix and match if you want, though some people may think you're silly for taking certain aspects from the RPGs.

Or like that one anon, shaming Blizzard for NOT taking certain aspects from the RPG.

If you want to use them in your PnP game or fanfiction more power to you, but saying Blizzard should have forced a playable race to deal with the idea that their characters will be dumber than their parents and their imaginary children dumber still would have been a terrible idea for WoW as a game.

>>46343309
What I find funny is that I first did Rhea's quest on my gnome warlock, who I RP as a 2edgy4u teenager. She's basically a parody of goth kids. She's blissfully unaware of how much of a little shit she is.

But I like to imagine that even she draws the line with Wrathion. And that she's slowly growing out of her own dumbassery while caring for the drake.

>>46343436
>complaining about the current direction of lore, and ways to fix it
isnt that what that one project was about? like metzloss or something. idk what it was called, but it was a wiki with like 2 entries for a WoW lore restoration

>>46343573
Didn't they go off on a massive tangent about the draenei and arakkoa being related, and not related to the eredar, that just started making shit up? Or was that a different guy?

The threads are starting to blend together in my mind. It's hard to keep shit straight after, what, eight iterations?

>>46343573
This wiki? http://alternate-azeroth-ptoject.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_Azeroth_Wikia

No one has really done anything with it yet.

>>46341488
How badly are they going to butcher the "canon" of the first 2 movies for the Warcraft movies?

>>46343689
I meant games
It's too early for finding out how a childhood franchise is going to get raped

>>46343689
The movies are set in an alternate universe with their own canon. It's how things might have gone down, not how it actually went down in Warcraft/WoW canon.
I want the movie / series of movies to end with 5~40 random adventurers showing up with a bronze dragon to NOPE them out of existence, just to see the reactions. Maybe as alternate ending on the DVD release...

>>46343689
Pretty heavily.

Orcs are brown, Stormwind is called Stormwind, Dalaran is flying, the Alliance exists before the Orcs invade, that sort of thing.

I'll be fine with it if it turns out to be a good movie, but I'm not incredibly optimistic.

>>46343457
>not wanting to play a member of Darwin Awards: the Race
>not wanting to weaponize your Grandfather's self-pouring teakeetle into a napalm-slinging turret because you're pretty sure that's how it works
>not wanting to forget exactly how that... thing-a-ma-bob you helped your father worked, and assuming it probably needed more rocket fuel booster
>not dying before you're thirty because that 'Bite the Coin' trick your brother the banker taught you isn't actually supposed to be used to check whether or not landmines are functioning properly

It's like you don't even goblin engineering, mate.

>>46343732
no
no that needs to happen in the background, but it needs to happen
at some point during some massive climactic battle we need a bunch of poorly dressed motherfuckers running in the background towards some other part of the scene, never to be actually addressed or brought up, just there

Pity its never going to happen, in the same way that we're probably never going to see a single dwarf or gnome in this entire warcraft movie, those are the two races that seem to just fucking vanish whenever blizzard wants to play it serious.

>>46343689
>tfw the intro cinematic for Reign of Chaos looks better than the new movie

Why are do the orcs in the trailer look like they're all ten feet tall?

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>>46343737
Speaking of, that quest in Pandaria where they look at your ancestors on a Goblin was great.

>Well... that's interesting. It appears most of your ancestors died in a fire. Oh my. Your people put themselves at great personal risk in the name of progress! I wish more Pandaren had your initiative.

>>46343735
Don't forget the orcs are being turned into even bigger Dindu Nuffins than ever.
Orgrim Doomhammer is still brown. Leaving out that he was greedy and power hungry and in the Second War, he reveled in terrorizing innocents.
That whole Garona/Lothar love story they're showing is absolutely fucking sickening.

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>>46343793

>>46343834
>tfw she (male) comes to help you find Kairoz

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>>46343848

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>>46343793
>spoiler
YES.

>>46343793
There was a dwarf featured prominently in one of the recent trailers.

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>>46343867

>>46343793
Low Level adventurers in clown suits, wearing mismatched and miscolored armor.

I hope that they do an Opening the Dark Portal scene and it involves weird dragons attacking Medivh and five random fucks showing up and fighting them off.

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>>46343893
I've always liked the transmogrification since it was added, but I do miss the mis-matched mess of gear you used to end up with while leveling up.
Reminds me of the best days playing back in Vanilla.

>>46343834
I like to imagine there's a male blood elf running around that's actually a female dragon in disguise, and no one has noticed the mistake.

>>46343838
Damn, he can put a positive spin on anything.

>>46343848
You know it's a dwarf, too, because he's the only one with a tankard.

>>46343848
>>46343867
huh, my bad then, nevermind
still though, there won't be a gnome in sight probably, no blizzard trailer that hasn't been played for laughs has ever really had gnome presence. Not that I'm mad over it, but I'm just aware that they'll whitewash out the gnomes to the point of absurdity whenever they try to get the cool factor going.

What do you mean the alliance airship normally has gnomish operators and a prominent gnome crew? Nah its always been humans, they are totally all we need to pilot this thing face-first into the legion, there were never any gnomes running these things.

>>46343735
I thought only some of the Orcs stayed brown, just the Frostwolf exiles and even Thrall was born green from second hand exposure.

>>46343802
Because they're fighting normal human actors (And actors are normally pretty small) instead of heroically proportioned CGI Ubermensch

>>46343838
Kinda disappointed there's no Alliance version of that quest, considering a bunch of their plotlines are about ancestry and stuff.

>>46343999
>orcs are six to seven feet tall
>humans are five to six feet tall
>orcs loom over pathetic manthings because Metzen jerks off to greenskin NTR porn

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>>46343999
>small actors
They should have called up Vince and asked for some wrestlers. I smell what the Rok'tar is cooking.

>>46343999
>I thought only some of the Orcs stayed brown
True. Just the ones that didn't follow Gul'dan through the portal.
Everyone else who followed turned green.

>>46344001
The Alliance doesn't get cool things. They're lucky that Blizzard remembers they exist at all.

>>46344079
Vastly better than Ka'anu Reevs.

>>46344078
You think they'll fit any Forest Trolls into the movie? Those guys are at least eight feet tall.

>>46344122
Well, the kaldorei get to exist to get butchered and raped by the infinitely superior orcs. That's a pretty cool fate, because they get to be involved with the master race of Azeroth.

>>46344137
Seven to eight, actually. And
>expecting anything out of this movie

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>>46344137
Probably not.
But it's not like they give a fuck about canon anyway.
Originally, Zuljin and his forest trolls only joined the orc's Horde because their mortal enemy elves joined the humans in the Second War.
As soon as the war was over, and the Orcs defeated, Zuljin picked his ball up and went home.

>Queen of Stormwind
>Played by an Ethiopian

Blizzard. Really.

>>46344137
there are going to be jungle trolls in the beginning, forest trolls won't be in until Tides of Darkness

>>46343793
>those are the two races that seem to just fucking vanish whenever blizzard wants to play it serious.
also trolls, we bareley got to see one in the burning crusade intro

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>>46344134
>Not wanting Keanu Reeves to make things most excellent
He and Alex Winter would be perfect as the human forms of two most righteous Bronze Dragondudes.

>>46344151
>Seven to eight, actually.
You got a canon source for that? I'm pretty sure Trolls are significantly taller than Night Elves, and that's Night Elf height you just posted there.

>>46344196
It's hard to tell what the Forest Trolls are, but the Jungle Trolls are shorter than the Night Elves, hovering between six and seven feet when standing upright, which they rarely do.

>>46344186
The trolls have been busy selling ganja to the gnomes, so neither has the time to show up.

>>46344177
Technically she's also Irish.

>>46344176
>Originally, Zuljin and his forest trolls only joined the orc's Horde because their mortal enemy elves joined the humans in the Second War.
the way that worked out was pretty funny

>Lordaeron sends emissaries to Quel'thalas to invite them to the Alliance
>Anasterian Sunstrider says no because they're busy fighting the trolls and can't commit to a foreign war
>Orgrim sends emissaries to Zul'jin to invite him into the Horde
>Zul'jin says no because he's busy fighting the elves and can't commit to a foreign war
>the elves take Zul'jin prisoner
>Orgrim sends troops to free him
>both alliances get forged

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>>46344229
No. Jungle Trolls are way taller than the Night Elves. They're almost nine fucking feet tall when standing straight.

>>46343889
>>46343867
>>46343848
im nervous as hell this movie will be another last airbender flop

>>46344326
>not looking forward to it

>>46344326
Even blizzard can't fuck up that badly.

>>46344326
Two simple suggestions:
First, don't have ridiculously high expectations. Expect the movie to be... okay. Average. Typical. That way, you might be pleasantly surprised when it turns out to be kind of good.

Second, if Shamalan is ever mentioned in an interview, start making blood sacrifices to curse his name.

>>46344078
>orcs are six to seven feet tall

The females are 6-6.5 feet. The males are a solid 7 feet.

tauren females are 9ft and the males are 10ft

>>46344279
[Proper Citation Needed]
Wow's old compendium states that they average 7 feet in height with the Drakkari and Zandalari coming in a bit taller.
http://web.archive.org/web/20101107214402/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/troll/biology.html

>>46344531
What's the most up to date lore for all the racial heights? The novels describe Forest Trolls as only a little shorter than Ogres and I seem to recall that most of them emphasize that Trolls are really, really tall. However, I don't seem to recall any exact heights given.

>>46344279
It's important to note that the tauren were shrunk down in WoW to fit through doors.

So their models' height isn't a reliable scale for determining their lore height. Same as how Goldshire in the lore is more than four buildings.

>>46344598
That's actually based on the models, I guess I could get a friend and go to a neutral city with a troll and a nightelf and wait for the troll to do his stretching animation.

>>46344688
That is true, Tauren are more like ten to twelve feet at least.

>>46344599
Certainly not >>46344279.
That's just pulled out of someones ass.
Draenei males being shorter than the females? Completely fucking wrong.

>>46344151
Kosak go away pls.

>>46344177
>>46344177
>>46344252
Her complexion seems right for someone from Redridge in my head.

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>>46344721
Oh yes, looks like they did fuck up with the Draenei. Still, the Jungle Troll height is correct. They're visibly seven feet tall while hunching, not when standing straight. The Vol'jin book also makes it clear that the Trolls are significantly taller than Pandaren. Sufficiently so that all of their armor was much too short for a Troll.

Anyhow, here's the official height chart from TBC. Some models are out of date.

>>46344599

Most up to date lore on racial heights was a tweet from Blizzard's chief historian (lore keeper) that has since been deleted (because he deleted his whole twitter account) on the heights of orcs and tauren. He started orc males average 7ft, orc females 6'0-6'6ft, tauren females 9ft, and tauren males 10ft.

That's the last time anyone from Blizzard has commented on any racial heights.

>>46344910
Well, that's a shame. A lot of the old information seems clearly wrong compared to what's presented in the novels and game.

Trolls are the most obvious example of that. They're repeatedly mentioned to be much taller than Orcs any time they're compared, yet the old info says they're just 7ft.

>>46344326
It's being directed by the guy that did Moon, so it almost certainly won't be Airbender-tier. I dunno if his skills will translate to a high fantasy movie, of course, but he's not brain-dead.

Just looking at the RPG height charts as they're listed on WoWpedia, and these don't make any sense at all. It's like some kind of monkey just shoved in random numbers.

>>46344910
Found a quote for Troll height in The Last Guardian

"The thing obliged, bursting from its place of concealment. It was half again as tall as any of the young men, and for one instant he thought it was some gigantic orc."

Assuming that Medivh and friends were around six feet tall, as is the standard for fantasy humans, Trolls have been around nine feet tall for some time.

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I miss her already, god I hope Blizzard changes that fuckin quest.

>>46345182
Medivh was not even 14 at the time.

(Though it think he was originally 16 when the coma struck before Chronicles.)

>>46345675
Raise a shit storm and they will. Go forth and do your duty as an irate customer.

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>>46345702
I'm not even in the Alpha, (So the Alpha forums are out of my reach) but everyone I know who IS in the Alpha has complained.

And So have I over twitter and other shit.

Also, this priest has said what every visitor to Manor Mistmantle must have said at some point if they knew what the word "Manor" means.

(I like that they kept it as a one room cottage for that joke, even though the comic also expands goldshire to an almost reasonable size,(

>>46345689
Maybe Medivh wasn't, but...

"This one ran his fingers through his hair, and Khadgar noticed that his dark hair was already receding. That was when he realized he was looking at Lord Lothar. "

Lothar's hair was already receding so I think he was old enough. Oh, and it's a Jungle Troll being described there. Jungle Trolls are roughly nine feet tall, which is an accurate estimation based on their ingame appearance as well.

>>46345675
>boobplate that doesn't even fully cover her boobs
>rest of plate armor is a fucking corset
>scale armor ever after 300 BC
>scale armor with huge fucking gaps between the scales
Bitch deserved to die dressing like that.

>>46345772
Anyone above level 9 also has access to equipment that makes you smarter, stronger, faster, or just harder to kill period simply by wearing it. Several raid bosses don't even wear shirts (Garrosh deflected entire raids with the majesty of his massive pectorals).

Boob plate really is not a big deal in a setting like WoW.

>>46345849
Only because Blizzard is too stupid to understand how armor works.

>>46345772
It's the artist's best approximation from the in-game armor. And we don't know exactly what is under the red cloth/leather parts.

Alternatively, it's the best the militia could manage.

>>46345870
It's a magical superheroic setting, chill your tits.

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>>46345870

>implying armor matters in a setting where female elf warriors charge into battle wearing bikinis and male orc warriors charge into battle dressed like conan the barbarian

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>>46345772
A lot of the most powerful characters in WoW go shirtless. Warcraft pretty much has carte blanche when it comes to armor design, though I'll admit that I dislike how over-designed stuff has turned in the recent expansions. WotLK was pretty much perfect for most of the sets. Cata started going pretty overboard.

>>46346221
I think Wrath was a little TOO bland and samey for everything that wasn't a tier set. (And even some of those)

>>46346221
I generally agree, but Cata did have some interesting pieces that weren't too overwrought.

I liked the Firelands Int-plate chest, and the cloth shoulders.

And each expansion usually has something decent mixed in. There's some quest green plate shoulders that look pretty nice, with a white and gold palette, relatively simple with a large spike on each shoulder.

Plus I kind of love the hilarity that one of the WoD maces is just a spikey plant someone pulled out of the ground, with clumps of dirt still on its roots.
>Aw shit, I broke my sword on the 80th orc I stabbed running through this fucking jungle.
>I need a weapon!
>Ooh, spikey, decent grip, good weight. Let's debrain orcs with a shrubbery!
Perfectly fits how I envision the typical WoW warrior.

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>>46346265
I'd say that's a fair criticism. Some of the non-tier stuff was OK, like the Cobalt wargear or the spikey Saronite sets. There was also a leather set I adored, but I can't remember the name of it.

Paladin and Warrior sets were absolutely dope, though. Just look at that and tell me it isn't the dopeist armor you've ever seen.

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>>46346335
I liked the Cata basic mage and Warlock tier sets.

Shaman was hideous in standard Cata, the "Half cooked Totems" set from firelands was eh, (To the point I'd use the non classbound version of the Hunter set instead if I wanted a Cata-era mog) The Deathwing Tier was okay I guess too.

I just hate that instead of letting us look like an elemental ascendant all the time they gave THAT set to Mages and instead of letting us look like a twilight's hammer war-camp that grew legs and decided to go for a stroll they gave THAT set to Warlocks.

Pretty much all the Cata Warrior gear was cool if a liiiiittle overdone.
Firelands Paladin was great

I love the Magnaron set for Monks in WoD.
>>46346387
I fuckin' love boars so that's one of my all-time favorite sets.

>>46346430
Jesus, I think the only 100% GOOD set Shaman have gotten since Wrath has to be the Thunderking tier.

>>46343735
>Stormwind is called Stormwind
Honestly at this point it's better, "Kingdom of Azeroth" was a shit idea

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>>46346430
I just love my magical feather armor. Got the purple palette on my human arcane mage, the red one on my gnome fire mage.

And a set for my gnome warrior's "around town" gear. The gnomes are supposed to be the same character, being an apprentice fire mage that moved to Ironforge, then picked up blacksmithing and a taste for weapons and armor. 'Canonically', she only uses magic to manipulate smelting flames and to burst into fire during combat, instead relying on a hammer for actually fighting shit.

I wish I had someone to RP with. I had a few friends I'd play with, but one only plays for a couple months after each major content patch, then goes bored really fast. The other has some life problems that interfere.

Though it doesn't help that I'm not on an RP server. Wyrmrest Accord gets cited as a good server, but looking around the net suggests they've got just as many self-absorbed twats as every other server.
I've had good experiences with MoonGuard tanks in dungeons, oddly enough. They're usually complete nuts, but damn good tanks. Like a panda girl that broke into dance after every victory, which was weird, but she did her job well. But the best was a guardian druid that used that prism item to swap everyone's appearances until the entire party looked like trees. "Tree feral is so OP!" he said, as my feral druid tore through shit. Then he turned everyone into bears. It was a wild ride.

>>46346925
>I wish I had someone to RP with
Damn I'm so fucking happy that even a decade after my bro is still always available to RP

It gets a bit stale sometimes though

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Hello, everyone. Beautiful day, isn't it?

Are you guys sure that N'zoth will be in the xpac after legion?
Because if we're following the Exploration-> Legion-> Undead-> Old Gods pattern there should be some bolvar fuckery in between.

>>46347845
Wrath was at least one third old gods/titans.

>>46347960
so was pandaria. N'zoth could very well be the Old God raid of legion, though that would be a huge dissapointment. Shame that they limited the number of OGs on azeroth to 4, it would be awesome if there was a continent on azeroths backside where the old gods are the dominating force

Slow thread is slow

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>>46348271
It's 4am on a Wednesday here in Alaska. Middle of the week + middle of the night = slow as fuck.

>>46348294
>It's 4am on a Wednesday here in Alaska. Middle of the week + middle of the night = slow as fuck.
It's 2PM here in europe
Then again there have been a lot of Warcraft threads in the last weeks so people are probably burned out

Can someone give me a summary of warcraft lore? I tried to read around but its a fucking mess

>>46348318
Sure, but it will take me some time to write it all out

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>>46348327
>Summarize three RTS, plus their expansions, plus an 11 year old MMO with five, soon six, expansions.
Good luck, friend. I genuinely mean that.

>>46348318
>It was originally a Warhammer rip-off, briefly was actually dope as fuck, and is now shit on toast.
Done.

>>46348318
look for nobbel on youtube

Have fun

>>46346221
WoW in general went over the edge with the designs.

I liked the looks in WCIII.

>>46348423
>Thinking WC3 wouldn't be just as ridiculous with designs if they weren't limited by the era's graphics.

>>46348376
yeah you're right, I was starting but since I'm at work I'm gonna be interrupted too much

>>46348318
Do you have more specific questions, instead?

>>46348448
Look at the Paladins there. They didn't have pauldrons as big as those we now have.

Even the Death Knights weren't this with their pauldrons.

>>46348448
WC3 didn't have to come up with a new Tier set for each class every time a content patch came out or (Activision)-Blizzard ran out of money and needed to shit out another expansion.

Over-design is a sign of desparation. Just look at Age of Sigmar.

>>46348522
I never understood: Why the panda faces?

>>46348542
why not? Samwise is a furfag

>>46348542
Because Samwise.

Also Illidan's pandas get angry faces when he appears in The Frozen Throne.

>>46346335
It gets even more hilariosu when you remember that said piece of shrubber has far higher stats than legendaries like Sulfuras or Thunderfury. If it was dropped in vanilla, that random piece of shrubbery would be legendary weapon of incredible power.

>>46348612
Lore vs game mechanics there. But yes, it does get sillier in that context.

WoW private rp servers?

>>46348693
it's useless

But i'll probably build up a vanilla server someday so I can relive those vanilla quests and raids

>>46345772
>scale armor ever after 300 BC
Do you even lorica squamata?
Shit was around longer than the lorica segmenta.

>work as a Scourge servant in the Halls of Reflection
>Arthas makes you dress up every day as a Lordaeron soldier or Terenas as he roleplays being prince again

>>46349178
They should be giving them something more than health insurance for the shit they have to go through.

>>46349178
>RP as a prince
But he's already a King

If anything he'd pull a Fulgrim - Repeatedly run Stratholme over and over again trying to convince Uther and Jaina to come with him

>>46349178
Does this mean scourge in chefs hats?

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>>46348318

>>46349287
Does that mean the Scourge is a monarchy? Or is it Northrend he's king of? Obviously the throne of Lordaeron was usurped by the pretender banshee queen.

>>46349699
He's literally the King of the Scourge
Untold and Unending armies of the Undead

He's got a pretty big stick to enforce his crown

>>46349699
>the Lich King
>"is the Scourge a monarchy?"

>>46349758
does that mean the Alliance is a monarchy?

>>46349758
>>46349802
Scourge is absolutist monarchy.
Alliance is constitutional monarchy.

>>46349802
Stormwind, Gilneas, and sort of Ironforge. The draenei and night elves appear to be theocracies. Not sure how to describe the gnome government, though. I don't know how "High Tinkers" are selected.

>>46349699
Arthas was the self-proclaimed king of Lordaeron until he was chased out by the usurper Sylvanas and his former people renounce his rule. He's never able to reclaim the capital after that so it pretty much ends there.

>>46349857
I always presumed it was an elected position, myself. Either directly, or indirectly through appointment by an elected council.

>>46349884
Well until post-WotLK he still had control of about as much of the kingdom as Sylvanas did, so he could rightly still claim that he was King, even if he didn't hold the capital. It'd be a contested crown, mind, but one he could claim to hold.

>>46349912
What was the Scarlet Crusade exactly? It was formed from the remains of the Lordaeron military and priesthood as well as commoners before it split into the Argent Dawn, but what governmental structure did they have?

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>>46349895
funnily enough these are their original vanilla titles

>>46349857
The booklet that came with vanilla wow says that high tinkers are elected by a council

I think, it's been a while, I may be mis-remembering it

>>46349802
Stormwind literally tricked every other Alliance nation into making Varian their king, so yes

>>46350158
How did that happen, anyway? Did nobody really question why they were making the youngest and least experienced faction leader their king?

>>46349699
I mean his title is 'lich king' but I always considered him more of the god of the scourge. He rules like a handful of people, his luitenants. Everyone else is a mindless slave really.
I can't imagine he does much in the vien of statecraft. He probably just deligates all of that to Kel'Thuzad.

>>46350322
The Lich King is neither a lich nor a king. I think we all know whom the title should truly belong to.

>http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Decree_of_the_Scourge

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Anons, I need some help. I am doing an warcraft rpg for my friends, and homecrewing everything from from the ground up with their help, so everyone is happy.

The problem is the magic system. I'm going by the schools of magic, wich makes them 12 spell circles.

The idea is that the outer circle (Fel, LIght, Nature, Arcane, Shadow, Death) is an grab only one deal. You cant take nature and light together and etc, while the inner circle (all the natural and spiritual magic) are cricles you can go and choose withoutfreely. So an warlorck would cast firebolt (fire magic) and a necromancer a death and decay (decay magic) without problems.

The thing is... what spells you think are iconic for each circle? I'm taking spells from wc1 to Wow, and fusing some together (like a light priest has two handfulls of spells that are simply 12 ways to cast heal and alike to paladin spells).

>>46350704
All Level 1 spells
>Fel
Demon Armour

>Light
Smite

>Nature
Moonfire

>Arcane
Arcane missiles

>Shadow
Mind Flay

>Death
DnD

>>46350704
>Fel
Corruption
>Death
Cripple
>Shadow
Mind flay
>Arcane
Arcane missiles
>Nature
Wrath
>Light
Heal

>>46350748
>death and de decay
>level 1

If you knew the sheer destruction it used to cause in the strategy games, you could literally level a base using that spell alone. I would make it at least six rows down.

>>46350894
Fair enough, i really should revisit the Pre WoW stuff
Then maybe something like PW: Death?

Something just to finish off a creature @ <10% hp

>>46349895
Gnomes elect a gnome who has outstanding work and contributed to society based on invention and ideas. Mekkatorque was elected High Tinkerer, but you can change the title if you wanted. During the trogg problems and their exile from Gnomergan, he renamed himself King of the Gnomes as a symbol for his people to rally behind.
That dick in the dungeon wanted to be the first King of the gnomes too, but wasn't elected.

>>46350748
>>46350894
>>46350924
Shadow Word Death is a shadow spell, Death Coil is probably the closest you could get to a "basic" necromancy spell since all offensive necromancy is high level DK stuff

>>46350973
Then don't make Death availiable from the start
Make it that Shadow can evolve into Death and Nature into Life

>>46350748
Moonfire is an arcane spell

>>46351039
Guess Wrath will do.

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Screw Sylvanas. Why the hell hasn't Blizzard given her the tortuous death of being farmed for epix that she deserves? And why are there still people on her side? Oh she got turned into an undead against her will, her home destroyed, betrayed by her second in command and killed a couple of times, told off by the worst warchief since fucking Blackhand and oh-noes-my-sister-who-i-kinda-planned-to-murder betrays her too and for all that shit she is somehow justified for the wholesome attempted genocide of all Gilneans and fucking farming people?

Seriously, somebody explain me why do people still support Sylvanas after all the Lich King shit she pulled off in the recent expansions and books.

>>46351039
No it isn't

It does arcane damage mechanically, but that does not make it an arcane spell

>>46350689
He's a Lich because his soul is inside of Frostmourne and the Helm.

>>46351069
Why does Blizzard do it? becaue she's Kosak's infallible waifu

Why do fans support it? Because people remember her being awesome in Warcraft 3 and reasonable in Vanilla WoW and hold a vain hope that the character from back then can come back

She can't though, there is no fixing that shit, any redemption she gets that isn't death would be ludicrously hamfisted by this point due to how insanely over-the-top evil she is

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>>46351069

>>46343657
That was me and another poor fool. We didn't just pull shit out of our arses, but we did come close to poorly written OC Donut Steel, I admit.

Our main attempt was to make Draenei actual natives to draenor and knock their powerlevels down a few pegs, so that their struggle was more relatable.

I never heard from the other guy, and after drafting a short script I realised hoe dumb it was.

But I still hold strongly to the idea that Draenei crashlanded and had to start over from literally nothing and were pretty much stuck on the same tech and magic levels of the orcs, with few excelling individuals.

Anyone else here roleplay on the EU Argent Dawn server?

>>46351165
I'd just say leave draenei as OP, but don't let players use them as a PC race in any TRPG.

>>46344177
>Stormwind is pretty close to where mediterranean climate would be
>Noble families exist even further south
>Darker complexion than eternally sunburnt anglo is possible and makes sense
>Lolno King Llayne can't have his milkchocolate waifu

Why you b hatin' mon

>>46344813
Redridge looks like... Colorado, Arizona sort of country desu.

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>>46350016
military junta

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>>46351234
nope, Kirin Tor EU

ROUTIN

>>46348318
>Warcraft 1
Orcs are tricked by an army of demons into drinking demonic Kool-Aid and genociding a mostly peaceful race. Then they open a portal to Azeroth (the main setting of Warcraft), and go on a murderous rampage through the Human Kingdom of Stormwind.

The survivors flee northwards, to the other Human kingdoms, leading to:

>Warcraft 2
The Humans, Dwarves, High Elves, and Gnomes form the GRAND ALLIANCE to fight off the Orcish Horde (now with enslaved dragons and trolls on their side!)

The Orcs see some early victories, but suffer from their leaders being made entirely of Starscreams, allowing the Alliance to force a dramatic final battle at Blackrock Mountain. The Orcish Warchief kills the Alliance commander, only for his second-in-command to beat the shit out of him, leading to total victory over the Horde.

However, the magical gateway between the Orcish homeworld, Draenor, and Azeroth was reopened by hardcore Horde loyalists, who escaped back home. So a bunch of Alliance soldiers charge in, bash some skulls open, and close the portal to keep this from ever happening again.

After this, a few Human kingdoms (and the Elves) leave the Alliance, the Orcs are put into internment camps, and Stormwind gets rebuilt.

Peace doesn't last.

>Cont.

>>46351086
His soul was consumeed by Frostmourn. Arthas is just a death knight who gained incredible power when he merged with ner'zhul. He does not have a phylactery thus is not a true lich

>>46351896
>Warcraft 3
Thrall, one of the Orcs raised in the internment camps, gets told by a ghostly wizard "get the fuck off this continent with as many people as you can, you fucker".

So he frees the Orcs from the internment camps, recruits a small tribe of trolls, and escapes West.

At the same time, a dark cult of assholes is spreading around a demonically-created zombie plague in the largest Human kingdom, Lordaeron. The Prince of Lordaeron, his ex-girlfriend, and his Paladin mentor go around trying to stop it.

Eventually they come across a city that's been infected, but hasn't risen as undead. Prince Arthas does a bad job of getting his point of "we need to kill them before they become zombies" across, and his ex and mentor tell him to fuck off. Arthas slaughters the city, taunted by one of the demons that started the plague to begin with. He chases that fucking demon to the northern continent of Northrend in search of a Magic Sword that will let him be STRONGER than the demon.

Whoops! Turns out the sword was a demonic sword and now the Prince serves the Undead Scourge. He returns to Lordaeron, kills his dad (the King), and slaughters his way to the Elven kingdom of Quel'Thalas. He kills one of their military leaders, Sylvanus Windrunner. This will be important later. Anyway, he just fucking destroys the Elven kingdom, and makes his way to their source of magical power: The Sunwell.

He resurrects a lich, and they open up a portal to let the demons through. The same demons that tricked the Orcs in Warcraft 1!

So anyways, the Orcs have finished their sea-journey and have landed on the mysterious western continent of Kalimdor. They start killing and conquering, as is the Orcish way, making allies with a local race of Native American Minotaurs called the Tauren. The Prince's ex-girlfriend ALSO escaped west with a bunch of Humans, and they have some fights before deciding that's stupid.

HOWEVER:
>cont.

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>>46352027
>Sylvanus

>>46349546
Christ, his eyes look like they were made of glass.

>>46352052
*Slyvannus

>>46352027
The Horde doesn't do a lot of conquering in the early bits there

Lot's of killing, but little, if any, conquering

>>46352027
Thrall already freed all the orcs from the camps. He just had to save Grom because he can't keep his murder boner in his pants.

>>46352076
They've been digitally touched up

>>46352225
He even edited himself, the fiend.

>>46352208
I actually quite like how Thrall keeps fooling himself into believing Grom is a good guy

It pays off in the end (sort of), but a lot of problems could have been solved if he just cut his losses and left him behind in Lordaeron.

Although that wouldn't fit with his character

>>46352052
>There is a Blood Mage whose random name is Sylvos Windrunner.

There is also that one Demon Hunter in WoW who is a random-named hero from WCIII that made a cameo in the MMO.

>>46352258
>It pays off in the end (sort of)
it really doesn't when you consider MoP and and WoD. Thrall's idolization of Grom and Orgrim literally caused an interdimesional time war

>>46352291
most of the liches in vanilla WoW were named after the randomly generated lich names from WC3

>>46352027
HOWEVER:

Some Orcs fall back into their former "FUCKING KILL EVERYTHING BECAUSE DEMON BLOOD" stage, and rampage through a nearby forest, angering the ancient and powerful purple Night Elves. The Orc responsible kills the demon that tricked all the Orcs to begin with, but the Night Elves are already freaking out.

So the Sentinels (Female Elf Warriors) start waking up the Druids (Male Elf Druids), and Illidan (Asshole Demon Hunter). They start fighting everyone, but then decide to team up with the Humans and Orcs to fight the Demons. They beat the demons in a dramatic final battle, but the Night Elves lose the giant tree that makes them immortal. Boo hoo.

But then an expansion pack happened!

The Night Elf cop keeping guard over Illidan while he was in underground prison chases him to keep him from using a demonic artifact. Unfortunately Illidan has some Naga (Underwater Evil Elves), and he gets away when his brother and brother's wife (and Illidan's unrequired love) show up.

Meanwhile, the surviving High Elves are being mistreated by the Human General "Moon Man" Garithos. So the Elves ally with with Illidan and his Naga, and fuck off to what's left of Draenor to Draenor, where they meet the horrible broken remnants of that peaceful race the Orcs genocided way back when. They become allies, and no one thinks to try and find the Alliance guys that also invaded Outland for some reason.

MEANWHILE IN LORDAERON:
The Demons have mostly lost control of the Undead, with a faction lead by the Lich King, and a faction lead by the Undead Elf general Sylvanas Windrunner. Arthas goes to Northrend again to protect his master while Sylvanas goes around killing demons because revenge. Arthas kills some spider people on the way north, because he can.

Anyway, Illidan and his buds go to kill the Lich King, while Arthas tries to stop him. They have a big final battle, and Arthas wins. Illidan still lives, but crawls away to Outland. Arthas and the Lich King merge.

>Cont

>>46352308
Unless you're saying his idolisation of Orgrim is why he idolised Grom, then I don't see how Orgrim is a part of it.

Beyond, you know, hurting Thrall's chances at peace by his insistence that Orgrim was a stand up chap while the entire Alliance considers him a horrific warmonger

>>46352342
>Asshole Demon Hunter who was 100% correct in all his actions

>>46352377
There's a difference between being right and being nice

Illidan may have been right, but he was also a prick

>>46351069
>>46351110
The only way to save Sylvanas as a character would be simply retconning everything that appeared since The Frozen Throne and not let Kosak within the range of 100 miles.

>>46352404
At the end of the day, Right > Nice
Same with Arthas pre Northrend

>>46352407
Why do you leave vanilla out of it?

>>46352361
Kinda why I'm glad most of the old warchiefs from the first and second war are dead. I can see them trying to drive Thrall into conflict.

>>46352342
It makes me wonder.... where was Maiev when Tyrande stormed in, killed her sisters and freed Illidan?

>>46352435
Wasn't there a new book that said TBC-era Illidan literally did nothing wrong?

>>46352435
Not if being a prick turns potential or former allies against you

Illidan's general dickishness got him killed, and Arthas's callousness lost him his restraint, which eventually cost him his sanity

>>46352361
his idolization of Grom was the reason he made garrosh warchief, his idolization of Orgrim was the reason he kept glorifying the Second War-era Horde despite nominally wanting peace

>>46352462
I can't

Orgrim after the second war was a sad old man filled with regret. I imagine the others would be similar, if they had joined the Horde

>>46352471
>got him killed
You do know that he can't ever die now right? Apprently he's more demon than NElf so he's now immortal

>>46352468
Yes, but we all pretty much saw that he was right in principle before that

>>46352505
Nope

That requires accepting that demons can't die outside of the nether, which requires accepting that Grom's sacrifice, Arthas's sacrifice and the Night Elves' sacrifice were all for nothing, which ruins the plot of the entire setting

>>46352463
Hey, standing guard for ten thousand years, you'll need to take a long piss.

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>>46342788
There only one person that can make the Alliance great, and she's being prepped for raidboss

>>46352451
Guh...sorry. I meant after, not since, The Frozen Throne.

Accidentally wrote the wrong word.

Seriously, better to retcon even vanilla WoW and subject the WoW fluff to what Disney is currently doing with Star Wars.

As in retcon everything apart of the core elements (in WarCraft's case it's the RTS games that should be left unchanged), and then have competent and creative people do the fluff as well trying to recycle those elements that were shown to be promising yet ended up as wasted potential.

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>>46352530
WELCOME TO ACTIVISION-BLIZZARD ANON

>>46352542
Varian will never be a raid boss

They neutered him entirely in Cataclysm too, there's no fixing that

Oh, and Jaina is just WotLK Varian because why fix one character when you can ruin a different one for the same purpose?

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>>46352542
I need to post this.

>>46352342
There was a bonus Orc campaign about building a city named after a war criminal in a resource-poor desert, but that's not important.

>World of Warcraft
It's been 5 years since Warcraft 3, and the world has inexplicably divided into two factions.

The Alliance now includes the Night Elves, because reasons, while the Horde are somehow totally fine with the whole "horrible undead" thing Sylvanas and her Forsaken have going on. Don't think about it too hard.

There isn't really a big overarching story right now, but there are some things happening.

The Dark Iron Dwarves, asshole cousins of the Alliance Dwarves, have summoned the Elemental Lord of fire into their underground citadel. The Ancient Empire of the Not!Zerg Quiraji has risen under the command of an ancient Old God. A floating necropolis led by a lich loyal to the Lich King is floating around and doing stuff. Some trolls happen!

Really, the BIG thing Vanilla WoW did, storywise, was set up a bunch of plot stuff to be developed later.

>World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
The Dark Portal, the thing that connects Azeroth to Outland? It's open and demons are invading again. But the Horde and Alliance kick their asses and invade through the portal. We make contact with a bunch of groups new and old.

The Alliance regains contact with the troops sent in way back in Warcraft 2, save for two very important characters that haven't shown up yet. They also get the not-degenerate versions of the Draenei: a race of space goats that do everything other races in the Alliance do, but better!

The Horde gets the Mag'Har: Orcish Smallpox victims that never drank the Demon Kool-Aid. They also get the Blood Elves (formerly High Elves), because the Horde needs a pretty rac- I mean, because Sylvanas was once a High Elf too!

So they go around beating the shit out of Demons, bird people, interdimensional arabs, and that sort of thing. They also fight Illidan and his pals for some reason.

>Cont.

>>46352542
If she does become a raid boss, I hope Alliance players have the option of reversing the raid formula and defending her from waves of enemies.

>>46352568
>and she's being prepped for raidboss
>she

>>46352583
I hope Horde characters get that option

I want to be like Rexxar again

>>46352542
>>46352570
Except that's completely wrong.
Jaina got her old man killed, sided with Thrall wayyyyyyyyyyy too many times, abadoned her supposed hubbie and then got mad off dragon dick

Her vagina is cursed

>>46352596
Jaina=Varian

Her personality now is just what Varian's was pre Cata. Jaina does not exist anymore, she is pre-Cata Varian using a different model which required killing off a very likeable character to have exist

>>46352497
That would be an interesting take on it tho. Grom if I remember was a young warrior, so he is the young new blood who still thinks the old "kill everything in sight" way of life is the shit, while the older, more ancient warchiefs only want everything to end already, because every war only make things worse, and now theres an warchief that seem to actually been trying to make alliances around. they want the horde to fix their history. He sees them as idols and ask for advice, but they just shrug it off because they dont want to poison the well. They need to actively stop grom from doing stupid violent shit and let the new generation do their thing. They still love war and at every conflict jump into it, but they know it isnt the way things work anymore. They areold dogs that cant learn any new tricks, and know thir tricks arent liked anymore.

Who would win in a fight, Jaina or Khadgar?

>>46352618
>BIG
>GREEN
>COCKS

>>46352627
I think she'll turn into Medivh, and we'll fight her in Karazhan 2.0

>>46352659
It's modern WoW, so it really depends on which side is making nice with the orcs currently. So knowing that, probably Khadgar, because a first and second war veteran is apparently more accepting of the orcs than Jaina Proudmoore these days.

>>46352660
>DIRE
>DRAGON
>DONGS

>>46352699
Nah, orcs lost.

It's the forsaken now who always win. I'm pretty sure the rule is that whoever has the least likeable leader is the one destined for victory

>>46352530
That was in the novels and ingame since TBC at the latest. Hell, it's common to RPG settings in general. There's usually that bit of flavor mentioned about how devils or devils will be able to return in around 100 years unless they're killed on their home plane.

>>46352699
Well he did spend a lot of time with the Naruu who accepted anyone willing to change.

>>46352656
>Grom if I remember was a young warrior,
Grom was old as fuck, we was a veteran of the First and Second Wars, and he'd been fighting against the Gorian Empire (assuming WoD additions to Draenor's past are mostly canon) for years before that. The reason he wasn't burned out like the rest is because he's fucking psychotic

>>46352727
Think he is insane. Who walks up to demon green koolaid and is like, "Fuck the ancestors, gimme that shit." And chugs it while doing a hand stand.

>>46352656
I like this idea, especially if they live through the 3rd war so Thrall can think that their resistance to Grom drinking demonic blood again is a sign of their great inner strength. Making him idolise them more

>>46352759
>Demon blood kegstands

>>46352578
So then the Alliance and Horde chase down the insane Blood Elf king, Kael'Thas, and clobber him for loot. He escapes back to the ruined Sunwell, and surprise! He was working for the demons the whole time! He opens a portal to let one of the OTHER big leaders of the Demons into Azeroth, but a couple dozen of Azeroth's heroes beat them up and take their stuff. The Sunwell reignites when a chandelier angel explodes, all according to the Draenei leader's plan, because they can do no wrong.

>World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
The Lich King launches an invasion of Azeroth from his icy citadel of Icecrown Citadel. He is almost immediately beaten back, and the Horde and Alliance gear up for war and charge his shitty ice continent.

A Paladin beats some sense into some Death Knights "Being a part of the Scourge sucks, come be good now".

"Okay" say the murder knights, and we have Death Knights as a class now.

Also, the Blue Dragonflight, one of the five mystical Dragonflights that safeguard something important like "Time" or "Magic" or "Life", has decided that Magic is for them only. The flying City-State of Dalaran disagrees. There's a war, they lose, and the other Dragonflights (save the Black ones) are sad.

Then some Dwarves find the ancient Titan complex of Ulduar. The Titans were a bunch of Jack Kirby New Gods style fuckers with a penchant for Norse Mythology. They go from World to World, looking for planets that have baby Titans in them, and bringing order to the other ones out of courtesy. They created the Dragonflights, and created the things that would be cursed by the Old Gods into becoming Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes. Unfortunately, the strongest Titan killed the other ones and started the demon army that started a bunch of this whole mess, and Ulduar is getting corrupted by those same Old Gods.

We kill 'em.

Cont.

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>>46348542
>>46348554
>>46348565
Samwise's initial design was more esoteric, but apparently people thought it looked too much like a Swastika and the higher ups didn't like the possible associations with Nazi-Germany and white supremacy, so they changed it to pandas because if serious isn't cool then funny always is.

Pic related is the original artwork, it actually made it into the night elf-victory screen.

>>46352578
Durotar is actually pretty good for natural resources. The land can sustain pigs easily enough, and it's apparently filled with mineral wealth

All it lacks is trees for lumber

>>46352618
She tried to make peace with the Horde. And the Horde betrayed her and nuked her town.
Now she's riding the dick that controls enough magic in his realm to destroy the entire world ten times over.
And her staff gives her monumental power now.
There's really no lore reason why she hasn't wiped out the Horde single-handedly yet.

>>46352875
The original Warglaives look rad, though the symbol is barely resembling a swastika.

>>46352886
Why the logging camp to the north is still pissing off night elves. Especially cata night elves, Garrosh wiped that place clean of elves.

>>46352875
>>46352875
how does that look like a swastika?

>>46352889
kalec is not an aspect anymore.

>>46352727
The funny thing is that his combat style in the novels wasn't that of a rage-fueled barbarian and that his main fighting advantage was being able to keep a clearer head than most of the other orcs who drank the blood. Of course, he was also always described surprisingly slender for an orc, with relatively narrow shoulders.

Then Garrosh is said to be just like him, while being a bulky raging barbarian with no resemblance to his father.

On a related note, the Warcraft movie's orcs should have been proportioned more like they were in Warcraft 3's cinematics. It was less ridiculous back then.

>>46352889
The reason is shit writing

Just pretend none of it happened, it makes more sense that way

>>46352911
Still, he's leader of a bunch of magical dragons, that's powerful.

>>46352530
The Night Elf one at least has the excuse of using all those wisps and the the entire power of the World Tree to shatter Archimonde from within.
Grom's sacrifice, yeah, that can be countermanded.
But then, he at least used all his demon blood power to strike at Mannoroth.
Arthas' sacrifice was always for nothing. It was all just part of Ner'zhul's plan.

>>46352922
Hell, by the fluff, Malfurion is so powerful he could solo the entire horde in his sleep.
And Ironforge's manufacturing capabilities alone outstrip anything the Horde can muster.
It's pure plot armor that keeps the horde together, much less alive.

>>46352998
Which is why Malfurion should be asleep or off doing something else to keep him out of the picture, and the entire Horde battle strategy should be "build up armies and weapons and recruit new allies as much as we can just to desperately try to defend ourselves against Ironforge"

>>46352847
Then that Paladin has a tournament for stupid reasons before launching the assault on Icecrown. We defeat a bunch of horrible abominations and a few elf vampires before we face the Lich King himself. But it was a trap! This entire expansion where we completely dismantle his war machine and slaughter his troops was all a ruse to get 10 or 25 of Azeroth's strongest murderhobos into the same room, so he can raise them as undead champions and take over the world. Fortunately, that Paladin from earlier has a magic sword that acts as a direct telephone line to Heav- I mean the Light, and he smacks the Lich King across the room. He dies, but without a Lich King, the scourge would amble mindlessly around, maybe gnawing on a rock or two. So the horrifically burned Alliance hero, Bolvar Fordragon, becomes the new Lich King.

Oh, and the King of Stormwind showed up at the beginning of the expansion or whatever.

>World of Warcraft: Cataclysm
Remember those Dragonflights?

Well, the Black Dragonflight went insane thousands of years ago, because the Old Gods kept telling them that the other ones didn't appreciate them or something.

So their leader, Deathwing, bursts out of the elemental plane he was hiding in while he recovered from fighting the other four Dragonflights at once. This caused mass geological change across the planet, because Blizzard felt the original zones were getting a little stale. This horrible devastation caused a war to break out between Alliance and Horde, because they were both lead by bellicose leaders. Only, because one side is the Horde, they get to win most of the battles.

Anyway, both factions get new races. The Horde gets ubercapitalist Goblins, lead by a fatso who tried to sell his fellows into slavery. The Alliance gets the Kingdom of Gilneas, which is immediately afflicted by Lycanthropy and invaded by the Lich Quee- I mean Sylvanas.

>Cont.

Is the alternate timeline Dreanor going to play a part in Legion? Yrel kinda left it open when she said they'll always be there if they needed help. Not sure what Grommash is going to do.

>>46353032
Don't forget Sylvanas doing a total backflip on her opinions on necromancy.

Cataclysm was the "character assassination" expansion, everyone got ruined then, or had seeds planted in their character to ruin them later.

>>46352939
and so is alexstraza
and so was ysera

>>46352921
So technically very, very ape-like.

Combined with the raging "Orcs are niggers" acusations, having them appear apelike on top of that would rouse all kinds of SJW outcry.

We should fund it.

>>46353079
>Varian calms down
>Sylvanas recruits the val'kyr and starts plaguing everyone
>Thrall retired as Warchief, becomes the World Shaman, and ends up marrying and banging his orc shaman trainer
Who am I missing?

>>46353132
Garrosh who decided to join the "How to be a hypocrite dictator" courses around that time and we see this bear fruit in MoP.

Cairne being killed off unceremoniously.

>>46353079
Wasn't Garrosh kind of a cool guy? Sure he wanted to fight the Alliance at every chance, but he didn't like the mass bombing or the plague.
His whole "I'm an honorable asshole." Personality changed into full asshole when he bombed Theramore and decided to use old mogu weapons of mass destruction.
Not to mention thinking sha old God power is different from demon corruption.

>>46353132
Magni turned to stone and became irrelevant. Archbishop Benedictus went full retard and became a boss (Why the fuck was Thrall part of that fight even on Alliance side?).

>>46353032
This expansion is mostly spent running around the world, putting out the fires Deathwing and the Old Gods started. Whether that's in Not!Egypt or Not!Scotland or an unpopular underwater zone.

Then some trolls show up but no one cared.

Then we have to do some time traveling with the Bronze Dragonflight, the Doc Brown of Dragonflights, to stop their inevitable evil future selves from helping Deathwing win.

That's 3 Dragonflights we slaughter so far.

We also help hatch a non-corrupt Black Dragon, who turns out to be a dick anyways.

Then we finally kill Deathwing, and the worst expansion ends.

>World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria
Because Thrall was pulling a Green Jesus during Cataclysm, Garrosh Hellscream, son of the Orc that drank that demon blood to begin with, got to be in charge.

And man, is he a dick.

So when an Alliance and Horde fleet shipwreck on a new continent, his first instinct is to invade, which the Alliance responds to by also invading.

Unfortunately, they didn't heed the warnings of the cuddly panda people. You see, the Titans killed an Old God here, but it turns out that's a bad thing to do. It left horrible emotion monsters that WILL eat you if you express negative emotions. That's why the Pandaren are all isolationist alcoholics who practice meditation. So yeah, we wake those guys up with our "Warcraft", fight off some mantis mongols, and beat up the old Emperors of the continent who allied with the trolls no one cares about.

Then Garrosh goes bonkers and dumps the OLD GOD HEART into the MYSTICAL TITAN-PROTECTED FOUNTAIN OF POWER THAT ALSO IRRIGATES THE BREADBASKET OF THE CONTINENT.

So he gets corrupted, pulls a loyal army of Orcish Smallpox Survivors out of nowhere, and the final raid of the expansion is fighting that guy and the war industry he pulled out of his ass.

He gets captured, not killed, but escapes.

Oh, we also got the Pandaren as a race for both factions, and the Monk class for most races.

>Cont.

>>46353028
>>46352998
Don't forget Velen.
If he ever decided to pull his thumb out of his ass, he's right up there, too.

If soemones go from warcraft 3, how could someone make undead and blood elfs an playable race without throwing them into the horde? Goblins are easy to say they are mercenaries, but Blood elfs have run with Kaelthas to the outlands, and a lot of them are with the illidari. Would be plausible to make Illidari (Fel orcs, Blood elfs, Draenei and naga) an viable faction?

But what to do with the forsaken? I know players want to be undeads.

>>46353176
he was a proper Warchief and a good enough leader (even with his advisers sabotaging him) in Cataclysm, but then Kosak needed to kill off a Horde leader and couldn't use Sylvanas, while Metzen was mad that there was an orc cooler than Thrall

>>46352875
>>46352911
I also thought it was the bouille shité, but with a lot of fantasy, you could interpret those extended lines coming from the tips of the star as the hooked arms of a swastika.

In German, the Swastika is primarily known as "Hakenkreuz", which means "hooked cross". If those marketing cunts who forbade this symbol in the first place have any similar way of thinking, it's likely they'd interpret ALL symbols with such extended lines as "swastika-like".

It's a shame, but we'll have to live with it.

>>46353176
People try to defend Garrosh because he had that one scene at the end of the Horde campaign in Stonetalon Mountains where he personally kills the general who bombed a school full of kids. Also, he denounced Sylvanas's use of the val'kyr to bolster the Forsaken ranks and remains the only being on record to call Sylvanas a "bitch" to her face and get away with it.

Doesn't make him any more likable or any less shit of a general.

>>46353132
>Cairne is actually assassinated
>Malfurion comes back and does bugger all
>Staghelm teams up with fire elementals
>Apparently dark irons and Bronzebeards can team up after about a thousand years of conflict with relatively few problems
>Zandalari are evil now


I'm sure there's more

>>46353123
>"Orcs are niggers" acusations
Why do people even suggest this? Orcs only bare a passing resemblance to niggers at most.

Anyhow, I just think the Warcraft 3 design was more realistic in general proportions, and the somewhat ape-like features are only natural if they're going to have huge jaws and teeth.

>>46353255
He was also attached to the most ludicrous amount of favouritism, somehow getting huge resources and loads of production out of fucking nowhere and then continuously winning because apparently the Horde isn't allowed to lose.

>>46353250
>Would be plausible to make Illidari (Fel orcs, Blood elfs, Draenei and naga) an viable faction?
It would have been at the time Burning Crusade was in development.
Back when the Draenei were just the broken inhabitants of Outland. Before their bullshit connection with the Eredar was made up.
Now, the lore is so completely bumfucked that there's no saving it.

>>46353287
>Why do people even suggest this? Orcs only bare a passing resemblance to niggers at most.
because stormcucks don't want to face the fact that orcs are Germans

WoD is literally a fantasy version of Hitler traveling back in time to give Alaric the Visigoth guns and tanks

>>46353287
People only say that because of the "Orcs dindu nuffin wrong" line of thinking Metzen likes to roll with and is cranking to 11 in the Warcraft movie.

>>46353287
Vidya-nerds only understand historical societies through tropes.

>Wears animal skins
>Dances around fires
>is noburo savachi
>Comes from a desert/steppe environment
>Have vaguely "african" facial features such as thick lips, pronounced lower jaw and flat noses
>They must be African! Therefore, they are niggers!

Apart from that, I also really enjoyed the W3 designs. I would take Green Grom over Brown Grom every day of the year.

>>46353211
Why does the Alliance have all these super powered people while the Horde has a troll, a young Tauren, insane dead lady, and the idiot elf council. Also the super elusive fat goblin.

>>46353302
>somehow getting huge resources and loads of production out of fucking nowhere
"Goblins" and "logging the FUCK out of Ashenvale" are probably the reasons.

>>46353350
As a fan of Warcraft 3 and Vanilla WoW orcs, that pisses me off so much

The movie should just try to be a Warcraft 1 movie, by including things from Warcraft 2, 3 and WoW it's just becoming worse

>>46353209
Oh! He also uses a magical nuke on the city that always strove for peace between the Alliance and Horde, killing everyone but its incredibly powerful and intelligent leader who is also a wizard. Bad idea, Garrosh.

But yeah, he escapes.

>World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor
He escapes to another dimension and also the past with the help of an asshole Bronze Dragon, because REASONS.

He gives the alternate timeline Orcs technology and stuff, and they open up the Dark Portal again. They invade, but immediately get beaten back by one of the guys who beat the Orcs back into the Dark Portal during the Second War: Khadgar the Wizard (who was also the apprentice of the prophet guy who told everyone to go west during Warcraft 3 (who was also possessed by demons and opened the Dark Portal in the first place)). So we go there, meet up with the not genocided Draenei and the not evil Orcs, and beat Garrosh and his friends into submission. We fight Roman Ogres, we fight guys with one hand, and then something stupid happens.

The Orcs from this timeline drink the demon blood.

So now the guy commiting genocide (who is both Garrosh's alternate universe father AND the alternate universe version of the guy who drank the demon blood in the first place) dindu nuffin and is on our side. So we kill the demons and orcs, and go back home.

Blizzard really dropped the ball on this expansion.

No new races or classes this time, but we did get shiny new models for the old races.

>World of Warcraft: Legion
The demons are back, and ready to summon their ULTIMATE LEADER: SARGERAS, THE FALLEN TITAN. They BTFO the Horde and Alliance, who are now fighting each other again while demons invade the planet, and now the classes have banded together to fight them. Because that makes sense. Also Demon Hunters are a class now and Illidan is back because subs are dropping like a rock.

AND DONE.

>>46353358
>This one tiny faction of goblins can keep up and exceed the production of Ironforge, the only major city that's been around since before the 3rd war and hasn't fallen, which is populated by the second most populace race in the setting which have a strong tendency towards hard work and production, who are teamed up with another race which are just as good if not better than goblins at invention

No

Just started watching some Warcraft movie trailers, and I realized just now that they included Dalaran's Chamber of Air where the Six used to meet.

>>46343735
>Dalaran is flying
Is that why people have been saying that Dalaran is flying? Because that room is supposed to have clouds and shit.

>>46353356
WRITING!

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>>46353356
To be fair, that troll is one of the greatest Shadow Hunters of all time.

>>46353423
they show a floating dalaran in the trailers

>>46353356
Because prior to Cataclysm. The theme of the Horde was "underdogs"

They were smaller, they were weaker, they were more desperate. They could only keep up by pouring their every resource into trying to keep up with the Alliance

>>46353437
more like one of the greatest race traitors of all time

>>46353437
But his plot armor fades when Garrosh decides to assassinate him. Thought he has super plot healing.

>>46353381
Eh, It's logical for them to include the changes to the lore after Warcraft 1. Back then, the Orcs were just demons from Hell.
You would have to address the issues of the Orc corruption and that not ALL Orcs are evil with the Frostwolf exile.
But the "dis a good orc team up wit da human" thing is just stupid.
And I can't even believe they're pushing a possible romance between Lothar and fucking Garona.

>>46353459
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>46353211
considering that they've been hinting that Velen and the Draenei are "Super preparing for the coming war with the legion no seriously guys we're gonna do it" There may be a chance that Velen finally gets his blue ass in gear and do something, and hopefully that something is more than 'die in the first fucking zone of the expansion' like his spare did.

>>46353420
Ironforge is probably mostly tapped for resources.
Azshara was virgin turf before the goblins got there

>>46353356
Because Horde = Orcs in many respects and generally, their big shots are on the wrong side of the loot table. And by that I mean like, Gul'dan and Mr. Merely A. Setback.

Orcs are the brute warrior archetype that doesn't need any poweful magic stuff in it's backstory that a character could claim and nobody cares about the other races.

>>46353477
Aren't they making orcs exiles from Draenor looking for a new home?

>>46353493
Yeah, well, I wish Blizzard would acknowledge all the implications of saving the entire Draenei race.
And there's still an AU Azeroth out there that hasn't been invaded by the Horde, but still potentially has a possessed Medivh.
I'm sure Dadghar would love to go there and deal with that.

So now that the focus is back on Azeroth Prime, what happens to the alternate timeline? What happens to alternate Grom? Does he stand trial for the shit he pulled? Do the people from the main timeline just close the portal, fuck off back home, and forget everything ever happened? Did nobody think to fish up the second Doomhammer and cart it back to Azeroth?

And how did the prime timeline NPCs handle the possibility of meeting their duplicates? Are none of them virgins now? Do paladins get Yrel as a sidekick in Legion?

>>46353523
Don't think so, but Durotan knows that Dreanor is fucked thanks to all the demon shit the Horde did.

>>46353499
>They have more natural resources, so obviously they can keep up with the mining of said resources and the production that follows

You're starting to push it mate. Just accept it, it doesn't make sense, it's bad writing, just one piece of bad writing amongst many in Cataclysm

>>46353548
Ok, maybe it will be ok

So long as Durotan gets relatively little focus so we can see more of the heroic alliance versus the demonic horde. And the lovely story aspect of the clearly evil horde actually winning. Leading to Warcraft 2

>>46353523
That too, but at the same time, Gul'dan and his corruption is being shown.
If they downplay Gul'dan, then there's no hope for the movie.
Especially when you have to consider that, canonically, the humans LOST the First War.
The Alliance was only formed because the kingdom of Azeroth(as it was known back then) was wrecked to shit by the invading Horde and Lothar led the survivors north to Lordaeron and the Horde followed, now led by Orgrim Doomhammer(who is staying brown for now) to try to crush what's left of humanity.

>>46353539
Grom stands trial before the elemental lords of Dreanor and every faction leader.

Talks about how he's not sorry for all the shit he pulled and would do it all over again. Iron Horde loyalist snatch him up and escape into a time portal, taking him to an alternate timeline of Dreanor where...

>>46353539
I want to see AU Azeroth where evil bitch Sylvanas meets herself as a younger, still elf self.

>>46353550
considering that the area that they're extracting resources from has probably NEVER been mined as opposed to having been mined for all of recorded history? Yeah.
Why do you think australia, canada, south africa and sibera are so rich in mineral resources?

>>46353539
No one even mentions it.

>>46353601
Then elf Sylvanas kills undead Sylvanas and takes over the forsaken

The forsaken get a sane leader and Sylvanas is still the leader of the Forsaken, everybody wins

>>46353601
>She is married to Arthas, King of Lordaeron
I would kek

>>46353576
Clearly you didn't see the part where Durotan teams up with some humans and punches Gul'dan.

>>46353606
>ignoring that Azshara was a major hub of Pre-Sundering Night Elf civilization, and is by no means "NEVER been mined."

Shit probably has less minerals than a pile of sand.

>>46353606
Why do you think that even during the Australian gold rush, more gold was still coming from America than Australia?

Of course, all of this is assuming Azshara has mineral wealth, which, considering the highborne, it probably doesn't have a huge amount. More than Dun Morogh or the searing gorge, but not as much as Tanaris or even the southern barrens

>>46353630
It was the only true union

>>46353630
That would be interesting to see if Blizzard releases a AU expansion for WoW, but it will never happen.

>>46353630
Was Arthas even born at the time of the First War? Ara ara.

>>46353630
Arthas wouldn't have been born yet. This is 35 years ago.
She could get married to a young King Terenas.

>>46353714
>>46353729
He was 4 at the 1st War
So yes Ara, Ara ~ indeed

>>46353742
Is that how night elves feel when they date humans?

>>46353761
Well don't forget that most Night Elves are in fact Amazonians due to the Decree
I'd imagine they'd see Human Men as "cocky brats" but they burn too quick to get too attached to

>>46353742
That doesn't make sense.
There was supposed to have been five years between the First and Second Wars, then 20 years to the Third.
He was supposed to have been 23 at the start of Warcraft 3.
Blizzard fucking with the timeline never stops.