>we want a game of thrones style intrigue based game anon

>>46310098
Anon I sincerely hope your players don't do this.

I'd have fucking dropped them as soon as they killed a guy for no reason.

Got any more stories of these jokers?

>>46310098
Tell them that before they ask for something, they should consider if they really wanted it.
Did they even watch Game of Thrones? Did they really understand what intrigue means?

>>46310219
This isn't even GoT or intrigue, this is all basic consequences.

>>46310098
>anon what do you mean our plan to kill the nobles in charge of one keep and take it over doesn't restore our noble status but instead makes us bandit kings

It is time to alter the campaign. No longer is this Game of Thrones, it is now middle ages Metal Gear Solid. That keep is now mother base, and their next task is to find a crippled alchemist to make a giant golem that can hurl magic nukes for them.

Tell them to play Crusader Kings 2 before asking for a game of courtly intrigue.

>>46310168
I second that.
Tell us more.

>>46310098
When people SAY they want Game of Thrones style intrigue, what they MEAN is they want to feel clever. They want to be the only scheming bastards in a world of honest men.

>>46310365
Pretty much this. Everyone wants to be littlefinger/tyrion but only if every NPC is Ned Stark.

That said OP, storytime pls.

>>46310168

Okay.

>let's play Out of the abyss anon
>i made a super giga nigga charimsa sorc, anon, the drow will let us go free if I roll a 20
>no it wont
>oh yeah?
>I roll to seduce the drow
>the drow recognizes you as a comely lass, but you're still a filthy and disgusting non-drow, and he leaves you in the slave pen
>WHAT THE FUCK ANON FUCK IT MY CHARACTER IS CHAOTIC EVIL NOW
>wait what
>I ATTACK THE DROW WITH MY SINGLE SPELL I STARTED WITH
>BOOM FAGGOT NOW WHAT
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE OTHER DROW ALL ATTACK ME BACK
>WHAT DO YOU MEEEEEEEEEEEAN THEY'RE FEEDING ME TO THE SPIDERS BELOW THE PRISON
>OH MY GOD ANON WHY ARE YOU SUCH A HARSH DM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

And

>Anon we've decided: We're going to go into the Lich's castle without resting first
two hours later
>wow anon, you won't let us rest in his castle? you're a fucking asshole anon, i want to play a new campaign

Out of the Abyss fed into the original campaign about stopping a lich and then we did the game of thrones one

nobody else in my podunk small town plays DnD

I wish i was dead

And then there's System Sam, who literally wants me to run a different system any week. When i first started DMing, I was interested, but after buying the Vampire The Masquerade, Shadowrun 5e, and Star Wars: Edge of the Empire books and having sam promptly lose interest two sessions in I stopped listening. Now he may run Demon The Fallen for us. We'll see. Last week it was DnD 4e.

Players will call you names for not being a bioware RPG, basically.

>>46310468
>wow anon, you won't let us rest in his castle?

Liches are notoriously anti-squatter. It's why they build their towers/castles/lairs in the middle of nowhere, they don't want random hobos showing up and setting up tent cities in the foyer.

>>46310468
You did ask him point blank why he kept switching systems, didn't you?

>>46310468
I mean if the player rolled a critical than they should have been able to change the viewpoints of the drow.

An unnatural 20 of course wouldn't have this effect unless you had already intended this drow to have a non drow fetish.

>>46310673
>if the player rolled a critical than they should have been able to change the viewpoints of the drow

No, anon, you're the worst.
Not even getting into the fact that skillchecks can't crit.

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>>46310673

>>46310711
>>46310673
Well, not that anon, but I like my twenties special. Not leaving them free, but for example, the drow could take that char chained to her quarters for bedroom drow things, meanwhile the rest of the party can figure up a way to escape and rescue their very raped companion.
Is it rape if you voluntarily seduce a person who has you at it's mercy?

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>>46310711
My friends and I have always played with 20s being crits for skill rolls.

I just went and checked the handbook
>Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.

My whole life is a lie, like Jesus Christ. Everything I've ever done is wrong. What the fuck.

Pardon me while I got have an existential crisis in the corner.

>>46310468
>>46310098
Kek, Jesus Christ, Im sorry for you for being DM in this group, but those posts are great

>>46310902
I'm so sorry anon

>>46310902
There are a million more of you who have been told this rule a hundred times and never listen.

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Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it ^,.,^

>>46310098
>anon why did this guy betray us what the fuck he was our bro
protip: WHAT A TWEEST LMAO THIS GUY IS SUDDENLY EVIL is not actually intrigue

did they have opportunity to investigate him or was it just lol sux 2bu

>>46311235
die in a fire, baiter

>>46311343
From the way OP describes this guys, I doubt they even bother to.
The guy probably acted friendly to them and they immediately assumed he was a friendly NPC created for the sole purpose of helping them.

>>46310711
Honestly, even without house ruling in skill crits, I would still expect a nat 20 for a high-Cha character to total somewhere in the 25-30 range, which ought to be enough to get you *something*. Probably not much, but some small step forward at least.

>>46311767
>the drow recognizes you as a comely lass
thats something

>>46311767
If you're straight as an arrow, no amount of sweet talking from a gay man is going to end with you sucking his dick.
Same principle as Drow vs other races.

>>46311767
>rolling high should succeed even in impossible situations
No.

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>>46310098
>we want a game of thrones style intrigue based game anon
Should have stopped here. Nobody actually wants that, even if they say so. Closest you might get is one of those VtM circlejerk LARPs, and you still don't want that. People constantly claim they want political intrigue, but they rarely enjoy the result.

>we want to use a system designed for high magic brainless hack-n-slash
>for a GoT game
>we are unwilling to learn a system that will let us do this properly
This should have been an even bigger warning sign.

>>46312169
Technically Reign players would be exactly that if Reign players existed.

>>46310098

Sounds like they couldn't handle the heat. Nor did they know how to properly pull off intrigue.

>>46311873
Just joined the conversation, but it's really not.

Now, of course, I agree the drow shouldn't have immediately decided to fuck the sunwalker, but here's a list of things that a sufficiently high roll could have achieved that wouldn't break credulity:

"You amuse me, lightskin. Here. Try not to let the others rape you." (Player acquires dagger.)

"Hmm. You seem too soft for real work. We should put your pampered frame where it will work best." (Character gets put on lighter work detail, with better odds of stealing.)

OR, and this is the one that boggles my mind

"Ha. You have spirit. If I could give you a means to escape from here, would you and your friends take it?"

Because that's LITERALLY WHAT THE MODULE OUT OF THE ABYSS HAS HAPPEN IN A DAY OR SO ANYWAY.

You wouldn't even be conceding any real power to the player, just letting them fast-forward a bit. Hell, you can even wait a few days for the escape itself, meaning the only change is that they KNOW they have an escape assist coming.

Also, the module openly explains that you CAN'T cast spells in the Slave Pens.Has OP considered maybe he's getting the caliber of players he deserves?

That's actually a step too far, sorry OP. Your players do sound like entitled shits. I meant only that you probably need to work a little more on giving the appearance of flexibility, and being a little more informed. Your errors in at least one case made your player's errors worse.

>Shit guys, this fight sucks, we're gonna TPK.
>God dammit, I'm at 5 HP! I'm gonna start making my new character cuz this is a TPK.
>HAHA FUCK YEAH WE WON!

>Shit guys, this is a TPK.
>HAHA FUCK YEAH WE WON! Take that, shitty goblins!

>Shit gys, this is a TPK for sure.
>HAHA FUCK YEAH WE WON!

Every. Single. Fight.

>>46312294
>You amuse me, lightskin. Here. Try not to let the others rape you." (Player acquires dagger.)

>player throws the knife at the Drow, killing him
Great job, dumbass.

>>46312294
The module has a Drow let prisoners escape for shits and giggles? That's almost certainly retarded.

>>46311939
If it's a literally impossible situation, you shouldn't even let the player roll at all.
Just like you shouldn't have the player roll for mundane shit with no chance of failure. Rolling is only ever for when there's some uncertainty about the outcome.

>>46310441
>>46310365

>Everyone wants to be littlefinger/tyrion

Even though Littlefinger is my favorite character, and think a person like him would be fun to play with, I think I'd enjoy being the right hand man to said schemer. Think of Bronn's hijinks with Tyrion. Or maybe think about the Mountain's rampage across the Riverlands (or during the rebellion).
and one day be rewarded with a land and title so your children can play the game of thrones

>>46312559
Correct.

>>46312169
>Nobody actually wants that, even if they say so.
I'm thinking something like House of Cards. Perhaps most can't pull of such clever plans, but I'd guess it's fun to try.

>>46312421
I would love to see how a level 1 character can throw a 1d4 weapon hard enough to deal 13 points of damage.

Because that's how much HP a drow has, dumbass.

Hell, even if they did it, THAT WOULD ALSO BE THE REACTION OF THE REST OF THE GUARDS: "Great job, dumbass."

>>46312463
No, he does it to spite the prison camp leader and her new boy-toy, since she stopped boning him once he got scarred by acid.

It's literally "A prison escape will make her angry, and make her boy toy look incompetent, so fuck them."

It at least makes sense for the Drow mindset: EVERYTHING IS BACKSTABS.

It also specifically notes that, since they eventually sell the slaves to Menzobarranzan, that they don't never kill the prisoners, instead just using their copious amounts of knock-out poison.

Though, if the player killed the guard with her one spell, I could see why they'd break the general rule.

>>46312559
On top of what you said rolling should only happen if failure from this roll is actually INTERESTING. I'm sick of how many times people arbitraily roll for shit like finding important clues for something that the GM clearly planned for us to find eventually, or the opposite problem for times when something like a startling event happens and a player just goes "my character wasn't scared" and then there's just no roll despite failure being an interesting outcome: a seemingly unphasable hero has a moment of weakness he didn't want happening.

>>46312754
>I would love to see how a level 1 character can throw a 1d4 weapon hard enough to deal 13 points of damage.

>Because that's how much HP a drow has, dumbass.
Gamist fucking scum. Your kind should be throttled at birth.

>trying to seduce a guard while others are watching
A retarded gamist piece of shit.

>>46313200
If a level one, caged PC can somehow kill a Drow with a thrown dagger in the same way a "hero" offs an enemy mook in a movie by chucking a knife at them and magically sticking it multiple inches into their chest, then why exactly does your game have combat rolls at all?

You've just established that in the most unfavorable circumstances, the player can accomplish the literally impossible. So why make them roll to attack in combat? Shouldn't you just have them narrate how they succeed at everything?

>>46313200

Go fuck yourself and the horse you rode in on, neandershit.

This is a fucking pre-made module for D&D 5e. This is the fucking HEART of GAMISM in the modern market. The closest anything comes to narrativism is the fucking Inspiration mechanic.

There are fucking rules, and trying to go around them builds the same kind of shitty attitude that OP got stuck with.

I like narrativist games. I like gamist ones as well. But you can't just drag one's set of expectations over to the other. That leads to some messed up shit.


I'm enjoying our overly aggressive dialogue choices being part and parcel of the 4chan experience, I do just want to clarify that we're doing it mostly in jest.

>>46313369
You're posting anonymously, dingus.

You don't have to be afraid to hurt someones feelings.

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>anon we want to usurp the King's throne
>anon what do you mean we cant just kill him in the middle of his court and declare ourselves the new rulers
>anon why are the guards attacking us, we killed the king they should be bowing down to us
>anon what do you mean we needed support from the nobles for the coup to work
>anon we dont care that there's a line of succession with the backing of the aristocracy, we killed the king!
>anon why are we fugitives?!
>anon wtf why did our contact betray us to the nobles?!
>anon fuck your campaign you railroading piece of shit we're never attending any of your sessions ever again

>>46313369
>>>/out/

>>46313200
>Gamist fucking scum

This entire discussion started because the one player wanted to escape on a crit.
It's an appropriate response to that player. I'm not going to say your opinion's shit, but at the very least return kind in kind.

>>46310877
It's not rape if its an elf. This has been established.

>>46313401
More "checking if it's actually 'worth' talking to them."

Pretending to be super-committed, or exaggerating your arguments is fine. Calling people names for no reason is fine. But if that guy legitimately believes his points, this isn't a venue/tone that's going to change his mind, and I'd at least prefer to procrastinate in a way more likely to make me feel as if I achieved something.

>>46310468
Jesus, System Sam sounds like one of mine. After two sessions of Dark Heresy he wanted me to switch over to FFG Star Wars because Dark Heresy was "too dark", and then after a session of Star Wars he wanted to do DnD 5e.

I'm running a Pathfinder game now and if he throws a fit after the first session and wants to change systems I'm just going to kick him out.

>>46313531
I confess I used to be a System Sam in my teens. I'd read about new systems on the internet, get hyped up, spend my allowance on a couple core books, play a game or two, and then repeat the whole cycle again.

I can't really pinpoint where I grew out of it. I know at a certain point my friends complained that they never got to really explore their characters, so I started to feel bad whenever I jumped systems, and eventually just stopped.

>>46313531
>Dark Heresy was "too dark"
What

I love having an intelligent playgroup who's aware that their actions have realistic consequences.

>>46313294
Just because we know OOC that the Drow can't be one-shot doesn't mean the Drow should know IC that he's essentially knife-proof. As far as the Drow should know, that knife is a deadly weapon that could easily be used to murder him or one of kin.

No, at this point I do think you're fairly stupid. I'd never use this strong of language in a non-anonymous setting.
>>46313463
A prison guard giving his charge a dagger because she's sexy is retarded. It endangers him and his fellows, and it's not even a remotely logical response.

>>46313605
It's possible you got a rush when learning about, buying, and/or playing a new game, which faded quickly and left you craving the next hit.
When the rush got spoiled by your guilt, your cravings would have faded away.

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>anon we want to stop heresy on this planet
>we have very little proof linking a noble to a genestealer cult? let's fucking kill him
>what do you mean we can't just gun him down during the tithing ceremony?
>whaaaaaat? why is the guard captain and his men attacking us? We showed our Inquisitorial rosette but they attacked us anyways?
>what do you mean we needed actual proof to be able to kill him and Inquisition our way out of it?
>whaaaaaaaaaat? our psyker Perils of the Warped a bloodletter?
>why did you shoot off our AdMech's arms? now she's going to bleed ouuuuuuuttttt
>I hate this stupid campaign. All you do is kill our characters. Fuck you.

>>46313640
>It endangers him and his fellows
Drow.

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>>46313640
>A prison guard giving his charge a dagger because she's sexy is retarded
It can make more sense if he wants to use her for himself later, and wants to make sure she's safer for that (which can have the side-effect of endearing her to him). After all, you don't want your new toy covered in bruises because someone felt like beating the snot out of her.

These are drow we're talking about, so it's plausible that some of them pick prisoners for their weird sadomasochistic femdom shenanigans.

>>46313731
>>46313453

These players are retarded and should feel bad.

>>46313734
Drow are inherently suicidal?

>>46313790
A big part of their culture is drow women plotting against one another at all levels of society. That could totally mean giving a prisoner a knife and setting up said prisoner to murder a rival.

>>46312400
Yep, that's me. I get anxiety, man.

>>46313640
>It endangers him and his fellows.
>Or one of his kin.

That's not really a drow concern. He'd be mildly concerned about danger to himself or his house, but not other drow.

Further, remember that he's a warrior who, just a day or so before, CAPTURED these prisoners. One who can, with a moment's warning, summon absolute darkness to hide him from the slave's eyes, and who is likely faster than the slave. Who has a tranq gun on his hip.

And who, as a culture, views all non-drow as inferior subhumans, and nowhere near his level.

To his mind, he's handed a child a steak knife: the absolute worst that can happen is it kills itself or another child. And he's a sociopath, so who cares? Not his kids.

>>46313790
Inherently treacherous and uncaring.

You know the phrase "I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire?" That's the drow equivalent of cordial interest and support.

Drow's first instinct when insulted or momentarily inconvenienced by another drow is "how do I shame them or get them killed?"

>>46310304
you're pretty much asking for a campaign entirely devoted to incest and murder

>>46312400
[Ugly Sobbing]

>>46313731
To be ever so slightly fair to those players, the showing of an Inquisitorial Rosette is stated to be carte blanche in the loyal Imperium. They DON'T need proof of their claims if they have that symbol. They can openly claim: "His thoughts held great heresy.", point at their psyker, and just walk away. And that would be accepted by most of the Imperium.

Which is why unless those were very high level players, they never would have been GIVEN a Rosette. even as a loan.

Of course, if you established that the Imperium's hold on this world was rather loose, and blah blah loyalty to the figureheads, that would justify it.

Or if the guard captain were part of the cult.

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>>46313453
>we're never attending any of your sessions ever again
Well thank fucking god

>>46310877
>TFW there is no Drow Dominatrix to teach you how to properly pleasure her with your inferior, non-drow body

>>46314219

This. In most cases, an Inquisitor can fall back on "innocence is no excuse" and "better a hundred innocents be killed than one heretic run free". They really CAN just off them.

Except on worlds where the Imperium is weak or another strong Imperial institution can give you cover. Etc etc etc.... You can make the argument.

Keep these stories coming. I've been playing for 20 years and my regular group loves and is good at this kind of game. I've been in a few pick-up groups that have colossally sucked, though, and so keep these stories coming.

>>46314297

I love how they act like there's too many DMs in the world and they can just find another.

>>46313947
Or a campaign of sitting around feasting and hunting until your chancellor finally fabricates a claim

>>46310673
>drow says that sorc has a way with words and that she will be back later
>sorc wakes up chained face down ass up
>drow walks in with a jumbo strapon and sorc rolls anal circumference.

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>>46314219
I let my party have a Rosette, but they were always sent on stealthy missions where it was meant as a THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A MINOR CULT CELL AND IT'S THE FRAKKING ALPHA LEGION panic button.

The one time they DID cross paths with the Alpha Legion, it was a single Legionnaire, unarmed and unarmored (weird story), and it went like this: https://youtu.be/sBxepOWO4aA?t=56s

>>46315246
Turns out I had the genders reversed, do not do this under any circumstance.

>>Fuck

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>>46315254
>actually encountering the Alpha Legion
Campaign confirmed for shit

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>>46310098
How old is this image?

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>intrigue in D&D

>kill the king and take his throne
>kill anyone who doesn't like that
>wait at your throne of skulls until everyone is done and accepts your obvious divine right to wear the crown
>implying this hasn't basically happened throughout human history

Wow this intrigue shit sure is hard

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>>46315386
>muh Alfas iz too SUPER SPESHUL SNEEKI to ebar eeben be seen, gaiz!
Go suck on Dan Abnett's cock some more, faggot.

>>46312400
Sounds like you're having fun to me. Fights where you're not in danger and nothing else it at stake is such a bore.

>>46315491
But it's not.

You can't just be nobody from nowhere, every single ruler in the history of mankind has implemented some legal backing to their claim no mater how flimsy. Don't you even try to pull that conquest shit on me we both know that they all had to do the work in their own courts to get the army for the job.

>>46315546
Fuck off and go play some high fantasy or some shit, if your players can encounter an enemy Space Marine and live you're doing it wrong

>>46315446

>Why you should never negotiate with players.

If you don't like my game, you always play someone else's game.

>>46313453

>Not having the king shift back to his true doppleganger form once the party kills him.
>Not having the palace guards say "By the gods above! How did you know that the king was an impostor, adventurer?!" to put them on the spot.
>Not doing this for every NPC they kill for no reason, until they come to the realization that everyone in the kingdom has secretly been replaced by dopplegangers including themselves.

One day you'll learn to roll with the punches.

>>46315610
An unarmed unarmored space marine can kill you with a hit. The trick should be to get out with the least amount of casualties and getting back up. There ought to be an actual number of stubber/flashlight rounds needed to down it. Even if a sizeable portion of the PDF is needed.

>>46315446
Can't be older than six years, since Horde rules weren't in the original Dark Heresy, and didn't appear until Deathwatch. I feel it's more likely it's no more than 5, with the re-release of the horde rules in Black Crusade. Both of these assume the DM was homebrewing the game by porting over the horde rules.

But most likely, since the horde rules were included in the base rules of Dark Heresy 2e, it's around 2 years old.

>>46315491

When has this EVER happened in human history?

Presidents Oswald, Boothe, and Czolgosz would all beg to differ with you.

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>>46315679
Do they all know everyone's a shapeshifter or are they all secretive even to each other?

>>46315610
>chaos space marines winning anything
>ever
>in the entire canon of 40k

As long as the players dont accidentally drop a grenade at their feet they should be right to see them scurry off with their mutant tails between their legs while they screech something about "ill get you next time you goody-two shoes!"

>>46315745
>not Alpha Legion in action.jpg

>>46315610
He stated that his players met an unarmed and unarmoured space marine, and spent the encounter running from his devastating power like he was the Hulk.

How much more SM cocksucking do you want from him?

>>46315730
I believe he's referring to more primitive times before the modern era.

Where if you rolled up with an army and killed the old king, you got to be King.

That would be interesting to see a culture that extended that 'authority by force' to more select groups. Like, if the party can kill the king and his guards, and hold the castle for a week, "well, guess they're king."

I think this was vaguely how Hobgoblins were stated to work in Kingdoms of Kalamar.

>>46312400

god fucking dammit, this of all things triggered me

>>46315819
>How much more SM cocksucking do you want from him?
All of it

>>46315745
They all have some idea, but all of them think that there are only a scant few infiltrators aside from them. They've all been sent from an underground county of doppelgangers. All of them, thinking they can be discovered at any moment, put a ton of effort into staying hidden- so much so, that despite the country now being 100% shapeshifters, persecution and fearmongering about the "unseen threat" has only increased in recent years...

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>>46310711
>>46310902
>play eclipse phase and 00 ARE automatic passes(as long as it's possible to actually pass, it doesn't make a non-suicidal person kill themselves)
To be fair it's a lot harder to get those on a d100 than a d20 so it makes sense.

>>46315819
>How much more SM cocksucking do you want from him?
Considering how true it is, that yes, they should have been fucking running.
That SM has as much soak as any of them in armor, without having to worry about pen, and punches harder than their fucking guns shoot.
As long as the SM wasn't a full retard, he could still drop a handful of humans in CC before they gunned him down, and that is if they made a hard stand.

>>46313632

> I love having an intelligent playgroup who's aware that their actions have realistic consequences.

I wish I was you

>>46315941
I don't understand why you're quoting me.

I'm pointing out that the GM and players did the right thing by running. I'm moderately aware of SM abilities in FFG games.

My comment was more "how much more powerful did you want the SM to be? His current form was being compared to THE HULK." because the guy was acting pissed that the players FLED IN TERROR from the space marine, and that it wasn't enough.

My 'cocksucking' remark was meant to imply the level of ludicrousness it would take to surpass the level of respect and danger the event was given.

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>>46310288
this is the only real way to do it

>>46312169
>Nobody actually wants that
Maybe not when you're the one DMing it.

>>46310098
>anon what do you mean our plan to kill the nobles in charge of one keep and take it over doesn't restore our noble status but instead makes us bandit kings
That sounds awesome. How could players not enjoy being a fallen noble turned bandit king that tears apart an entire realm that wronged them?

>>46316126
Kazuhira "Only Masterrace on the Motherbase" Miller
Kazuhira "Pull the trigger on every nigger" Miller
Kazuhira "One man Klan" Miller
Kazuhira "Cheaper rates for Apartheid states" Miller
Kazuhira "Empty my nine at the wellfare line" Miller
I should spent less time on /v/

>>46311343
>betrayed us
>he's evil
You're jumping through some hoops just to get angry at a vaguely described scenario, anon.

>>46316178
I think his point may have been that, well, one of the things that makes Game of Thrones intrigue so good is the reader's limited vision, which is still much better than anyone in setting's intelligence gathering. (Except one or two potentials like Varys)

So, a game of thrones type of situation wouldn't be as engaging, since the players wouldn't have the time or positioning to learn even half the plans going on, so things would keep happening they weren't prepared for, and they'd constantly need to deal with that.

Like, at least the first book's style was mainly focused on how ONE act was rippling through multiple people's plans, and how half the cast could be suspected of having engineered this murder or that attempt.

So I think he's alluding to the point that most players like the idea of political intrigues, but don't enjoy being pawns in the many moving schemes that such an intrigue heavy setting forces the GM to make.

>>46315907
>paranoia.jpg

>>46310288
I'd play the fuck out of this.

>>46315934
>playing Eclipse Phase.

Shit game for shit people.

>>46316548
Count me in too

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>>46310288
>>46316548
That sounds fucking awesome and I think I'm going to start writing that campaign.

>>46316254
Kazuhira "Six Million More" Miller
Kazuhira "Chimp Choker Champion" Miller
Kazuhira "The Walking Holocaust" Miller
Kazuhira "Gas the Kikes, even the Tykes" Miller
Kazuhira "Going Mental on the Oriental" Miller
Kazuhira "Let's get this Shoa on the Road" Miller

>>46316967
Before or after having killed the king?

>>46316323
I am the anon you're talking about (>>46312169), and I speak mainly as a player.


I haven't read GoT (saw most of the show though), but I have spent a lot of time in games pitched as "political intrigue". It can bring out some of the most unpleasant parts of roleplaying. It's like a GM's puzzle game, only he doesn't tell you about half the pieces, he puts in about a hundred fake pieces, and kills your character if you don't solve it exactly right.

Players I know are not willing to put in the kind of cognitive resources (time, attention, etc) needed to play that kind of game with any degree of subtlety or skill. Not only that, but the GM usually has some very bizarre and non-intuitive ideas of how politicking or scheming works, which makes your performance largely based off the extent to which you can read the GM's mind and do something that he thinks would work. And then you have a tremendous amount of information intentionally hidden from players that they probably couldn't fit together even if they were calmly sitting down instead of being hyped in a social gathering with their friends.


Given all those concerns, the closest I would come to political intrigue in a tabletop game is a very simple scenario. I'm talking "You find out Baron X is the enemy of King Y and wants to kill him. Are you a bad enough dude to save the king?", and I wouldn't make its successful navigation essential to the game. Players have a lot of handicaps on their ability to solve problems in-game when they sit down to play, you simply can't expect them to navigate this kind of stuff, even if they're pretty smart IRL.

>>46313947
they asked for GOT so yes.

>>46317213
Sure, but perhaps the most important part about these sort of games is getting realistic consequences for your actions.

>>46317357
>the most important part about these sort of games is getting realistic consequences for your actions.
Yeah, that's what signed up for in fantasy roleplaying. Consequences.

>>46317603
Weren't we talking about GOT-like games? Specifically, intrigue games? So that your actions mean something.

>>46317213
The guy you're responding to here:

Your points are what I was trying to convey in my second paragraph, my apologies for not conveying them more clearly. I default to writing in a much smaller text box than the board posts, so I tend to think "Jesus, I've written 6 lines about this, I'm beating this point to death." And then I post, and it's only a single sentence, barely reaching a second line.

I think you could make political intrigue games work in a couple situations, or with specific caveats:
Firstly, if you used a longer format, like a play-by-post system, where your players can spend time and think, as you allude to. However, that choice isn't going to work for most groups, so here's the steps I'd propose to make 'intrigue' games work at the table:

1. LIMIT YOUR CAST. George RR Martin gets PAID to write the Song of Ice and Fire books, and you know what? He doesn't remember his own plots. There's a guy who's such a fan that George calls HIM to make sure his next twist doesn't conflict with what he's already written. You don't need 60 goddamn important NPCs with stats and so on, you need at most 5 factions.

You allude to this with your basic situation, but I think players can go a couple steps higher. I think players can accept "BARON A is the enemy of KING B. He plots against him, but DUKE C wants to marry the princess, so he supports KING B. The CHURCH D doesn't like KING B, BARON A or DUKE C. You work for DUKE E, and he wants the crown for himself: get to work."

But even then, you see how things start to get a little convoluted. And this is where the next step can make life easier.

And I'm out of space, so (Cont)

>>46317603
>my actions shouldn't have consequences
>I should be able to do whatever without ear of retaliation
Speedrun your local pharmacy.

>>46317724
>the law now dictates all crimes require the removal of an ear

>if someone lacks ears they take the closest bodily equivalent remaining

>this ends in disembowelment

>>46317713

2. MAKE YOUR PLAYERS INDEPENDENT. One of the reasons Game of Thrones works is that we, the reader, can choose who to back. You might like Tyrion, I might prefer Littlefinger. We both hate Cersei. Keeping your player's characters as a group independent from the struggle lets them invest themselves. It's fine to have one or two party members beholden to one of the factions, hell, feel free to make them all beholden to someone different, but don't make the group as a whole beholden to one faction.

Not only does this limit your players from investing themselves, it limits their access to information. If the party all works for DUKE E, why should anyone in DUKE C or BARON A's camps talk to them? By having the party be an independent force, they can be courted or dismissed by factions, giving them more information to work with.

Or, if you want them to have a better reason for information

3: GIVE THE PLAYERS AUTHORITY AND PRESENCE. Ned Stark works as a surrogate protagonist for a while because he is the HAND OF THE KING. When he asks a question, people have to answer. Inquisitors speak with the authority of the GOD EMPEROR. The Emperor of Rokugan appoints his JADE MAGISTRATES to investigate the political situation of his nation. You don't need to go this far, but here's a basic rule: The players are KNIGHTS, not PAWNS. They should always be a big enough deal that any faction under the top 2 should worry about them. Because, again, this increases interaction and information exchange.

Finally, rule 4: LET THEM HEAR THE LITTLE BIRDS SING.
There's an ongoing joke in Police Squad that Frank Drebin gets whatever information he needs from the local shoeshiner. The "word on the street" is always right. IN fact, it's so good, surgeons, priests, and coaches go to the shoeshine boy for the answers they don't have.

(one last cont)

>>46317925
>make your players pawns not knights
Shit I think I fucked up
But then again, being "pawns" might work to their favor, no? Your questioning might go unnoticed.

>>46317049
The king being The Boss?

>>46313632
Until they complain that the setting isn't logical. That the king is too incompetent. That they don't know how something works until explained that it's magical. They want to know if animated armor is a person without telling you their intentions. They want to know if snow is an inanimate material (for Shatter, told later on). They want fringe benefits from the thieves guild. Every. Single. Fucking. Detail. Critiqued.

Unless it benefits them. Then it's all fiiiine~

>>46317925


You don't have to let the street rumors be 100% right every time, but there should always BE 'word on the street.' And you should GIVE the players that, even when they don't directly ask for it.

When they go out to buy their dinner, the shopkeep recognizes them and asks if they'll arrest BARON A for bestiality. He heard the BARON buys a new virgin goat every year, and likely fucks the poor thing to death. (This kind of rumor is great, because it contains so little usable information, but what it does is great because it opens up a lot of questions.)

The local Blacksmith should apologize that it will take a while to get them what they want, as the Church has ordered a dozen new breastplates, to ordain a new order of knights.

Etc etc.

>>46317986
The rules can of course be bent, and yes, you have a point. The main complaint with making players pawns is that it lowers their agency and information access, making the plot more impenetrable. If your players are fine with that, go ahead, no worries.

If not, an easy solution would be to have them be a pawn the first sessions, complete some task of moderate renown, and then become 'knights'. So like, saving that one town or mayor has changed the issue enough to be notable. A recent example is in Season 1 of Daredevil: Nelson and Murdock protect a woman the Kingpin tried to frame for a crime. He doesn't immediately lose his shit, or have them attacked. He shrugs, accepts that lawyers winning cases is, of course, their job, and starts a file on them. He GIVES them a case a few episodes later.

>>46310098
>ANON IM NOT FUCKING EVIL
Thinking that alignments have any place in a Game of Thrones inspired campaign was your first mistake.

Any tips on DMing for the first time?

>>46318510
The fuck are you posting this here? Just do it, you will make mistakes and that's okay.

>>46318378
Not OP's fault. They asked for D&D so they got D&D

>>46313200

It's sad that people took your obvious b8.

>>46313512
I know what you mean, bro. There's nothing worse than having a really fun argument with somebody and then realizing that they're actually upset.

>>46312209
I'm a Reign player currently without other Reign players. Are you one too?

>>46313859
>To his mind, he's handed a child a steak knife: the absolute worst that can happen is it kills itself or another child. And he's a sociopath, so who cares? Not his kids.

>>46313899
>Drow's first instinct when insulted or momentarily inconvenienced by another drow is "how do I shame them or get them killed?"

HEY

You're not allowed to understand drow and be on /tg/ at the same time

>>46312704
Since almost nobody in the real world is anywhere close to the level of scheming ability shown in shows like that, the only way to really pull it off is to have a mechanic to have retroactively planned for a given situation...

"Oh yeah? Well, I knew the Count was going to betray us, which is why [roll, spend a point, whatever] I bribed the captain of the guard last week, so all of the soldiers in the court are loyal to me."

And we know how /tg/ feels about that sort of thing...

>>46319032
>Nobody in the real world is anywhere close...

There are a few throughout history. The shitty ones get caught.

>>46313640
>Just because we know OOC that the Drow can't be one-shot doesn't mean the Drow should know IC that he's essentially knife-proof.

"Hah, there's no way this pitiful surface beast could possibly hurt me, because I am a drow and we are notorious for being arrogant overconfident fucks."

The drow may not know he's knife-proof, but when it's a non-drow wielding the knife, he certainly believes he is.

I'm not saying that he should have given a prisoner a knife, mind you... just that that one specific argument you made is wrong.

>>46319032
Sounds hilarious actually.
>Actually, I bribed the guards!
>Ah, but you forget I had a secret love affair with the guard captain!
>Oh, but I planted a prostitute for him to fall in love with, and he now hates you!
>So you think, but that prostitute gave him a mind control potion that puts him under MY control!
>Yet how could you have known that the apothecary you bought that potion from was in fact one of MY spies!

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How do you roleplay a character who's obviously more clever and a better schemer than yourself?

>>46317925
Your points are pretty solid advice, especially the last one, but that one kind of applies to any game. Rumors are great, because they add so much colour to a setting, and players will have the impression there's a whole world going on around them and can't decide what to do first.

I've been running a pretty intrigue-heavy campaign myself, and what I've found works is unashamedly giving your players out of character hints. Not as a regular thing, and never anything major, but the whole problem with running an intrigue game is as you've outlined the sheer scope of NPC's and factions you have to remember. When your party for example is trying to curry favour with the followers of this and there god, who are also enemies of this one guy your patron owes a favour to because they sided with your patron against the king who is a follower of another, rival god, making all the connections between these factions and noticing if anything's off is a herculean task. (Example is from my game, couldn't think of anything better) Offhandedly mentioning when the players are discussing plans why they haven't tried hearing the other side of the story from the enemy of these followers will immediately put them on edge. They have the feeling they've missed something, and go through their contacts to see where they might have been sloppy. Prod them enough with sticks and they'll start doing some digging around eventually, you make a small reveal, they have the impression they discovered the trap/boon and are lulled back into their previous sense of security. Rinse and repeat until the most unexpected tweest comes out and everything falls apart gloriously like a house of cards, but they have the impression they almost had it.

>>46319117
You left out the "almost" before the "nobody", which I put there for a very good reason.

>>46319370
woops, sorry. I keep misreading. Maybe I should get back to studying.

>>46319182
Yeah, this actually sounds like it could be fun as hell. There was just a recent thread with some people screaming bloody murder about the fact that some games dare to use things like Fate points to give players a little narrative control now and then.

>>46310098

Don't feel bad OP. They are autistic. They can't help it. They don't understand their actions have consequences; mommy and daddy (or lack there of) solve their problems for them.

>>46310711

Just because you can fuck something, doesn't mean it would ever fuck you back. ever.

>>46315934
They aren't if the GM didn't permit the roll. You can shove your 00s on diplomacy or whatever up your ass if no one listens to you.

>>46313531

>too dark
>2 Dark
>TWO
>FUCKING
>DARK
>?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>46315819

Well I mean to the common folk if you were the one with the army then you were the king, it's not like they had a lot of national pride or anything. To the political world at large you might be known as an imposter, but if you had the military force to control your land and the borders then fuck it you were the king now.

>>46319237

Roll checks (Knowledge, sense motive, perception, even a profession) to essentially get the DM to tell you plot points and to 'deduce' things. Play it like a divining wizard without the spells.

>>46319390
Wouldn't misreading while studying have worse consequences than doing so here?

>>46321904
Not if I answer the review questions at the end of the chapter. Since it's in Spanish I have to focus a lot to make sure I understand correctly. Otherwise I won't know how to begin to answer the questions.

>>46321904
Not studying at all would be still worse.

>>46310098
I ran a commoner quest in 3.5 that ended up GoT

>>46319261

I totally agree that any given game should include town rumors. I just wanted to note their increased importance in Intrigue games.

It can also reinforce the idea of the players' Authority: People complaining to them likely do so because they assume the players have some authority to fix it.

Out of character hints are a great thing to keep things on track. Sometimes I pull the "Your character is smart enough to remember POINT X"

>>46319237
Some basic things to help are notes. You can take notes of what's going on to have your character just straight remember them.

>>46321465 is another important one. Remember that Sherlock Holmes basically just had super high Perception and Knowledge skills that allowed him to make his many "deductions". You should definitely talk to your DM about it, and potentially setting up "Passive" scores for your Knowledge checks, so your character will just know things.

Consider the most elegant options. By which I mean the simplest action needed to get a result. (If you wish to scare a man, there's no need to break into his home. Instead, give something to his wife or children while they are away from him, something he will KNOW comes from you. Simply meeting someone in the market and saying "Oh, you're lady So-And-So, aren't you? Could you pass this on to your husband for me? It's been too long since I've visited your lovely home, we must get together again soon." It sounds perfectly cordial and polite to her, but threatening to him.)

Also, Take the "hydra" approach to tasks: anything you NEED done, have three ways to achieve it. If you need a nobleman to oppose the church, pay-off one of his associates to bitch to him about them, frame the church as inconveniencing or targeting him, AND provide some minor irritation directly related to them.

As trite as it sounds, reading the Art of War, ESPECIALLY the versions where they talk about stories that emphasize the points, can help you seem better.

>>46318664
No, but I'd play a Reign game anytime if you weren't imaginary.

>>46311922
Arrows curve in flight.
Suck my dick, faggot.

>>46313640
Except that Drow society is all about backstabbing, and he's entirely aware of the only prisoner capable of backstabbing him, so if he's not incompetent, you won't be getting any sneak attacks on him in the first place, lethal or no.
On the other hand if you attack another drow, it makes the head bitch's boy-toy look bad for not successfully stripping the prisoners of their belongings, which is the drow handing you the dagger's motive all along.
He only stands to gain from the action, it helps the player, and rewards them for a high roll. It's far from an escape, but also far from a complete failure.

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>>46325264
S A V A G E
A
V
A
G
E

>>46313531

>system called Dark Heresy
>"It's too dark!"
>FUCKING DARK IS IN THE GOD DAMN TITLE OF THE GAME

Is this real life? Please tell me you're making this shit up, because god damn.

That's like playing Vampire: The Masquerade and complaining that there's too many vampires and that they have to stay hidden. That's like playing Paranoia and saying you hate how paranoid it makes you feel. That's like playing Dungeons and Dragons and complaining that there's too many dungeons, and also too many dragons. That's like playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and complaining about how fantastical it is and how you have to roleplay. I can't think of any more of these jokes, otherwise I'd keep going that's so stupid

>>46325356
I can't see anything, anon
Could we play this game wih the lights on

>>46325264
UNLIMITED BANT WORKS

>>46325409

No. Now pick a picture of the god that's closest to the one you worship. You have to commit heresy and piss on it. We're playing this game right, god damn it.

but really, good one bro, I chuckled heartily

>>46319237
Who needs to be as clever as their character? You just have to be more clever than everyone else at the table.

>>46317603
I can tell you're trying to sarcastic, but I can't understand why.
What's the point of roleplaying if the fantasy world doesn't adhere to logic? Might as well have the campaign entirely set in the elemental plane of Gumdrop Mountain where attacking people with weapons makes chocolate bars pop out instead of blood, and instead of resting to restore spells, the wizard shits out candycorn and eats it.
That's just as ridiculous as walking into a castle, killing the King, and expecting the kingdom to belong to you all of a sudden.

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>>46319032
>>46319182
>>46319402
How do you guys feel about Polaris?

It´s pretty much what you´re saying but towards the future. Example: character A has to recover a magic crown stolen by a demon to save the dying queen. Player A plays the hero, player B plays anything and anyone who opposes A, players C and D play everybody else and help A and B to come to agreements. After some time or a certain plot point is reached, the players rotate their roles.

Gameplay has some points and mechanics that ensure that, the further you go, the shittier everything gets, and you become a better knight but more jaded and bitter. Still it´s mostly narrative, but following certain "keywords" that allow the player to change things. Plays roughly like this:

>A: Now that I´ve found the demon, I slay him with my sword
>B: BUT in doing so, you also destroy the crown and doom everyone
>A: YOU ASK FAR TOO MUCH
>B: THEN you break the crown and recover the pieces, which still hold some power
>A: ALSO there is a chance to repair the crown and restore its full power
>B: BUT when you come home you´re banished for destroying the crown
>A: Fair enough

The bottom line is that every hero (always a knight of a mythical civilization in the ancient North Pole) will eventually die or live long enough to be corrupted by the Enemy as their civilization plunges into darkness and disappears.

I can imagine that a similar system could work pretty well, if properly adapted and ruled.

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>>46325409

>>46316254
How fucking dare you. Kaz was the real hero.

>>46325356
That's like complaining about too much jizz in the ERP. That's like complaining about too many tentacles in the Hentai. That's like complaining about too much sand in Dune. That's like playing Starcraft and complaining about too many Zerglings in your base. That's like making a thread on /tg/ and complaining about too much lewd being posted in it. That's like trying to start any sort of discussion on 4chan and complaining when Nazis get brought up.

>>46325356
It's like playing FATAL and not killing yourself

>>46315364
Because men galetting raped is okay but women getting raped isn't?

>>46315681
I actually had my players fight SM.

>Dark Heresy game
>almost a year before (game-time and real-time) they met a mentally confused beast of a man who they helped get home
>guy was actually a Fallen Angel
>Fast forward to now: Sepheris Secundus, miner shantytown
>Dark Angels killteam catches on to them
>guard NPC follower gets one-shotted by a scout's sniper fire
>group tries to close in to sniper nest while taking cover behind various huts
>reach enemy
>psyker throws mootov trying to set fire to house where the sniper is
>fails miserably, hits guard PC, who then burns to death
>plasma shot from scout2 fries psyker just as second molotov hits target
>house is on fire, rocket from ollower Ogrym NPC explodes front wall.
>cue the terminator
>surviving group (ogryn and guard) proceeds to shit britches and run like hell
>power fist to ogryn's face, goes down but survives because he is so beloved that PC previously agreed to spend lots of their own xps to give him a fate point
>surviving guard has a melta and nowhere to run
>manages to get behind terminator, point blank shot
>agree to a one-off deal, letting him burn a fate points to get a 10 on his damage roll
>he burns two, terminator is dead
>surviving guard gloats, is then murdered by remaining two scouts

six fate points were burned that day

>>46310288
RULES OF NATURE!

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>>46315606
>being a slave to someone else's dream
>not seizing power through sheer force of will and might

>>46315819
You had to kill the king and crush his army. You couldn't just kill him and take his place. His successors and their army would have something to say about that.

>>46313947
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>46325762
>crush his army.

Untrue. You simply have to kill the generals personally loyal to him.

>>46313453
How and when did you steal my players?

The problems of EP are that its a supposed to be horror game but the mechanics and the setting dont reinforce that at all. The lore varies from being awesome to bullshit. Its a game of polarity, take it with a light grain of salt.

>>46312209
No, if Reign players existed they'd be people who fetishize broken math. ORE a shit.

>>46310288
Crippled alchemists belong in boats.

>>46310098
>"Anon, we want to run DH"
>"Are you sure? It is low leveled low combat high investigation thing, you'll have to kiss many asses and obey many people...Don't you prefer Only War, since you like IG and have been in the military; or RT, that gives all of us more freedom?"
>"No no, DH is fine"
>"Write some murder scenario, try to create some clues, different "non-totally-leathal" ways to solve it..."
>So you want to be and assassin?
>Yeah
>And you want to be a soldier?
>Yeah
>Me too, anon. Can we both be soldiers?

Just kill me please.

You think that's bad? I run Delta Green, and one of my players is so used to gamism, the second an NPC behaves like an actual human being his mind short-circuits and he doesn't know how to approach a problem

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>>46310098
You made a common mistake, OP. You believed that someone wanted what they said they wanted. The truth is most people don't want what they say they want. This is true not just in gaming, but in all walks of life, so it's a good lesson to learn.

Sometimes it's because people are lying to you for any number of reasons, sometimes it's because they lack self awareness, and sometimes it's because they don't understand the true implications of what they ask for. Whatever the reason, if you give people exactly what they ask for, they usually won't like it.

>>46326123
>Can we both be soldiers?
Throw out everything you had planned, drop the whole non-lethal thing, make the enemy have loads of hired thugs that they send out at the smalest provocation.
Make it into a buddycop-story. Like dirty Harry & Chuck Norris fighting the mob.

>>46310098
Your players will see you as an asshole if you present it as a punishment brought by you instead of the world.

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>>46326187
Do this. That'd be fun as hell. Make sure they're all ex soldiers, and they all run a private detective service in the always raining streets of an out of the way ancient gnarled hiveworld which ended up with the aesthetics of a noir film over the whole planet.

Planet spanning subways, great asian food, almost 100% foot traffic though.

Set up the NARRATIVE constraints of the story. If you frame it like a detective story, the players will have an understanding of the consequences of breaking "the rules."

>>46315907
That actually sounds like a fun as fuck campaign.

The constant paranoia would be awesome to behold as a GM!

>>46325356
>it's like playing shadowrun and complaining that there's too much running in shadows
>it's like playing mage: the awakening and complaining you can't stay asleep just ten minutes longer
>it's like playing deathwatch and complaining that people can tell the time of your demise
>it's like playing Los Magos Del Tiempo and complaining that you don't know what's going on

>>46328444
>It's like playing Mouse Guard and complaining that you are mice.
>It's like playing IronClaw and complaining that you are furries.
>It's like playing Ars Magica and complaining that you are mages who research something but not all the time.
>It's like playing Pathfinder and complaining that you are lost.
>It's like playing Dark Eye and complaining that it's translated from german to english.
>It's like playing Star Wars and complaining that you are jedi.
>It's like playing Lamentations of the Flame Princess and complaining that it's weird.
>It's like playing GURPS and complaining that it's generic.
>It's like playing Bunnies and Burrows and complaining that you are rabbits.
>It's like playing Hackmaster and complaining that you are slaughtering everything.
>It's like playing Call of Cthulhu and complaining that you are insane.

>>46319032
I dunno about /tg/ but this sounds like a good way to do it.
You have resources like contacts and plots to spend. It's vague what the actual set up is, but once in place you can pull from it later to plot twist stuff.

I remember reading the GoT tabletop rules at some point but I forgot most of them and can only really remember there was like an entire chapter on how to create your house crest.

>>46310098

>Players say they want a LoTR based game
>And as the resident Tolkien nut, they say they want it to be like the books, not like the movies.
>At session zero.
>Going through, in detail, what would be involved in a "Be like Tolkien" LoTR campaign.
>They hate pretty much all of it.
>Session dissolves.


Did I come out ahead or behind?

>>46329654
Well, at least you didn't start a session before finding out.

>>46326176

It's not that most people don't want what they say they want, it's that what they say they want has often been terribly misidentified by them.

They wanted intrigue. They mentioned Game of Thrones. They sort of forgot about the whole "everyone gets screwed over and/or is morally gray" part of intrigue, and then decided to deal with that in the most unsubtle way possible. And it looks like, to me, that only succeeded in thickening the tone.

>>46329654
Can you tell us more about the campaign?

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>>46313531
>Dark Heresy was "too dark"
Hahahahahahaha, why did that make me laugh so much?
>Hey anon, can we stop playing warhammer? I don't like wars!

>>46325645
I played an only war game where we got into the 10k+ experience range. We had to fight a warband during one mission and we got caught in a protracted firefight as our forward base was attacked by a demi-steel rain. They locked down our single support tank and made a surgical strike on our basilisk positions. Our squad had to take the field and it became readily apparent that we were approaching hero of the imperium status when our sharpshooter managed to drop a ravager with a hot-shot long-las shot every other turn.

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>>46315679
but anon, then instead of getting an aversion to murderhobo'ing every NPC they come across, then they learn they can just kill whoever they want with no consequence and get away wit it.

I like to think i have a pretty good system for that
>The king called me a bitch of CORSE i had to kill him in the middle of his throne room what the fuck are you doing attacking me for it?

Once the action is done, i throw whatever sensible reaction anyone here would have at the player. City guard, prison, wanted in any settlement they could go to, etc. Then the next time they fall asleep, they somehow miraculously wake up in the same bed they did the day they had that meeting with the king. And the same assistant is going to knock on their door and let them know the king has requested a meeting. And they're going to do it again and again until they get it fucking right.

Nothing teaches your players shit has consequences like wasting literal hours of their time.

>pic related

>>46330334
Well, it never got fully fleshed out, but the preliminary idea is that it would start off about 4 years before Frodo leaves for Rivendell. Will mostly take place in Rhun. PCs are a group in the employ of the Blue Wizards who are trying to stir up trouble for Sauron with his allies, keep the various Easterlimg groups either out of the war entirely, or too busy to spend their main strength on Gondor when the big push comes.

>>46330721
>Actions don't have consequences as long as I trap people in a loop and slow the story to a crawl
Fuck off, you shit writer

>>46310902
I have no idea why so many people don't know this about the game they have been playing for years.

>>46330887
See, people just assume the rules are how they remember them, rather than reading the rules.

This reminds me of a PK Dick story I read once. Earth playtesters were testing toys and games from Ganymaede, ensuring they were safe for Earthman use and not tools of war. The testers were paranoid about the automated war kit, but they just rubber-stamped the other game because they assumed it was just a Monopoly clone. You can guess what the twist was, in light of what we're talking about.

>>46315934
Yeah, it'd be like if 95-00 were guaranteed success.

>>46310288
i want to play it now. god damnit.

>>46311767
Well, having the drow not be mad in that situation seems like as good of a result as possible in that situation. Rolling well doesn't have to give something good, it can stop something bad as well.

>>46319032
You mean, Time Wizards?

>>46325537
Exactly

>>46330887
Because most people don't learn to play via the rulebook, they learn to play by joining a group and being taught. This means that it only takes one GM who got the rule wrong, or who made a house rule and didn't point out that it was a house rule, and you have an entire local generation of new players who "know" the wrong rule.

>Okay anon, I roll to seduce the princess
>failed
>"The princess shoots down your advances"
>Fine, I offer her all of my money
>"She still says no"
>What? thats bullshit anon, any women would fuck a guy for that kind of money
>"Shes a princess, one of the richest women in all the land, she doesn't need your money"

Then he spent 5 more minutes trying to come up with ways to make the princess take his dick

>>46331038
Have you ever read something and think you don't know how words work anymore? I read that like three times and I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. It just looks more like gibberish the more I read it.

>>46330757
Sounds like shit.

>>46331891
It just seems way too widespread for that. I mean, clearly I'm wrong, it just boggles my mind.

>>46310468
>nobody else in my podunk small town plays DnD
Get it through your thick fucking skull that not playing at all would actually be better.

Problem solved.

>>46331930
It's Philip K Dick. Of course it's gibberish.

>Party finds evidence implicating a noble in some evil shit
>Immediately go to the banquet he is attending
>Run up and kill him
>No presenting evidence or accusing, literally just shanked the fucker
>Guards rush them
>Start shouting "He was evil, he had to die!" While mowing down guards
>They call me shit

even if theyd just put down their weapons and got arrested, they could have shown the court what they discovered, but they resorted to combat right away

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>>46310902
Same, but I'm still gonna do it.

I still remember fondly each and every one of our insane skill crits and crit fails (tracking a person by scent across an entire town, breaking one's finger on a keyboard while attempting to type a password...) and I wouldn't want to rob my futur players of these experiences.

>>46331976
Saves and attacks follow such rules and in most editions the skill pages are mostly fluff to explain how to get your +es on them. I mean, besides social skills you are always sure of what skill to use, so at best people skim through it and instead read all they can about combat and spells.

>>46332615
I suppose that makes sense. Not everyone enthusiastically reads rpgs cover to cover like I do.

>>46312754
>playing a system where all drow have the same stats

>>46310098
So... The mountain wanted to pretend being Petyr Baelish?

And you're surprised that didn't go so well?

>>46310468
>nobody else in my podunk small town plays DnD
You could do roll20.

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>>46325264

>>46332847
Funny you should mention that. All I want is to play changeling, nobody I know of even plays tabletop RPGs (either in my college town or hometown). I check roll20 and there's only one changeling campaign, which I have to pay $2.50 per hour to the GM. Why live?

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>>46332933
Be a ruthless capitalist. There's a market. Go undercut it.

Host a roll20 changeling campaign and charge $2.35/hr.

(And remember if your in a po-dunk nowhere, rent is cheap. If you're playing with someone in LA or Denver or NY, then $2.50 doesn't even get them a coffee)

>>46333027
But I want to be a player, not a GM. Sure, I have a campaign pretty much all set up, but I'm not GM material just yet. I have much to learn.

>>46315254
I'm going to steal your idea and have my players encounter a massive, unarmoured space marine.

I hope they run, but knowing them, they might just try to kill the bastard with their fists.

>>46310098
I guess that really is the mindset of a chaotic evil person though. Always blaming all of their issues on other folk.

>>46310902
I don't get it. How the fuck did you not get clues in by the fact that every roll to do anything, ever always had a 5% chance of success?

>>46331925
>Trying to get a goddamn princess to whore herself out
Pa-fucking-thetic.
If she put out for anyone with cash money or even a nice face, the line of inheritance would be even more complicated than it is already.
You'd have to do something really impressive or have some serious emotional leverage to even think about sticking your dick in royalty.
...Now I'm thinking about having a campaign where the guy hiring the PCs is a quixotic knight who's looking to marry the princess, or have a game where all of the players are knights trying to impress the princess.

>>46319237
Become more clever and better at scheming

>>46313859
>inferior subhumans
Shouldn't that be inferior subelves or inferior subdrow?

>>46332933
Have you tried getting some of them into it?

>>46321299
I know, dude. It literally has the word dark in the title and they complaining about it being "too dark".

>>46335100
Who the people in my uni/hometown? Yes, a few. "Too much reading" is the usual response.

>>46335083
Not if it's about unseelie fey.

>>46333763
>Knight party going on increasingly dangerous adventures to win over the princess
sounds like fun

>>46312400
Question, as a DM, how should I handle an actual TPK

I've never had one occur, so I'm not sure

>>46312754
>I would love to see how a level 1 character can throw a 1d4 weapon hard enough to deal 13 points of damage.
4 on the d4 6 on a d6 for a rogue sneak attack and +3 for dex.

>>46310468
Are you playing with DSP

>>46335381
Also the possibility for a crit

>>46335311
Balls to the wall son, if they've accepted their fate you end them all

>>46333618
This argument applies to any rolls of the d20 you fucking moron.

>>46315745
I'd like to imagine the town is driven on fear, scared of a shapeshifter infestation, but everyone is secretly a shapeshifter and they all think they're the only one, and the only reason the fear still exists is to convince other people that they are not the shapeshifter.
Then one night, the paranoia builds up and everyone turns on one another. By dawn, not a single soul has survived.

>>46315386
Fuck you and you spaceboos. If people want to play a campaign where they kill/save or even become the next emperor, than fucking do it. The most important thing is to have fun, not limit your imagination while tearfully masturbating to established lore.

>>46319237
>can't into clever scheming
point and laugh

>>46318336
The advantage to playing pawns is that, if they're smart (and the DM knows how things work), they'll be able to talk to just about anyone's servants and get some solid information.

Not something like "I'm going to put [faction X] in it's place" like a noble might tell them, but "the noble I work for has been getting mysterious shipments for the past week, and I noticed one of them included a breastplate with the symbol of [faction X] on it. Maybe he's going to have some guys impersonate [faction X] for some reason?"

They'd need to actually get the relevant servants to like them enough to tell them this stuff, since the HAND OF THE KING or what have you is typically not going to be able to force unhelpful servants into telling him that kind of thing. That said, that's a great type of person to have as a contact, and just try to pick up 1-2 in each notable noble's household and each notable faction.

>>46310877
Apparently it's always rape. So...whatever mang.

>>46335311
Give them a chance to surrender or run and live with that humiliation. You could also capture them or save them last minute.

If they refuse and moan about all of that, let their characters rot in a ditch for all eternity.

>>46310902
kek

our group follows the crit success/crit fail house rule because it makes everything more interesting.

the principle is if we're super skilled at a task we wouldn't even be rolling to do it anyway, and rolls are reserved for stressful situations, during which a 5% guaranteed fail or 5% guaranteed success is viable and more fun.

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Here's what gets me all riled up.
>players want political intrigue
>they roll fucking adventurers

That shit DOESN'T. WORK.

In order to properly play a political intrigue campaign, the characters have to be embroiled in politics 99% of the time. They need to go to different courts and constantly talk to people to unveil all the different plots and relationships.

Talking to one or two or three "insider" NPCs while going about murdering shit for money will never suffice. Ever. They will be nothing but pawns, pieces on a map to be moved about by the lesser schemes-- not even the greater ones. They have to be goddamn Tyrion or Baelish, constantly sitting in rooms studying or standing in halls socializing and piecing things together. They can't be The Hound, or Jon Snow, or even fucking Daenerys, because every single one of those characters is a leaf in the storm.

Goddamn it it makes me mad that people don't know what they're asking for. I've GM'd so many political intrigue campaigns that I've just scrapped in favor of dungeoncrawling for loot and glory because the effort put into an intrigue campaign far outweighs whatever payoff the players get out of figuring something out because they're so tangentially involved.

FUCK.

>>46310673
>I mean if the player rolled a critical than they should have been able to change the viewpoints of the drow.

My honest first thought was 'gang rape' as an outcome. I mean, you are trying to make a drow (evil) think you are super hot and good to go. At least that is how he would see it.

>>46312682
I tried it, half my party members were noble savages and the other half were monster freaks.
The only person I had any common ground with was an elf princess from a low status house and though I tried to get all "We gotta stick together since were similar." she never opened up with me. Its a really difficult character to play since unless people are willing to listen to you and trust you then you're useless.

In retrospect the character ended up more the Hotshot who thought he was the leader but wasn't.
Which thinking about it seems to be what all my characters are...

>>46312682
One time I had a player bring a Littlefinger character to the table which was fine except they made a CN party face in a game that I TOLD them was a treasure hunting dungeoneering game. So I looked at the their sheet and their character wasn't shit in a fight or in a hostile environment so I asked if they were sure and explained the game in further depth and they were adamant about this character. Three sessions later and they aren't having fun constantly talking about how they're useless in battle (chose a heavy crossbow on a DEX/CHA build and refused to use their bard spells and performances for whatever reason) so I say aw man well I want everyone to have fun so I introduce a detective quest revolving around missing townspeople the all over the province which ultimately culminated to a confrontation with a cult making a corpse avatar of their demigod using a ancient construct as the base. I figured lots of talking lots of stabbing it'll be a good time there was even an out so you could talk them down before they did anything drastic. Halfway through the quest line they found a mercenary company transporting caskets on regular intervals through the countryside that promptly disappeared halfway through the forest. Well they found the merc holdout and the party face is like holy shit let me talk to them and the Ranger who has been doing most of the talking up to this point because he had decent DIP says fine after a short discussion about how important it is they don't agitate them because there are hostages at stake. So the bard goes up to the holdout entrance with the rest of the party waiting a few minutes away in the treeline and knocks (it's like an abandoned inn with some ruins around it fortified into a compound) and after a brief discussion with a grunt the chief is at the door and leads her inside. (cont)

>>46337445
(cont)

The first thing she says after entering the Chiefs office - the first fucking thing - is "I know you've been kidnapping people and transporting people in coffins tell us where you're taking them before I tell the Imperial Guard". The rest of the table was silent as the chief ordered the compound on lock down and immediately proceeded to try and execute her. But I was the bad guy for not letting her roll DIP. I was even going to let her roll intimidate which was still high even though it was so fucking implausible the chief would be scared of a little ass bard they unarmed at the door and no known backup. But I was the bad guy.

>>46325356
>it's like playing Unknown Armies and complaining because you don't know where the armies are
>It's like playing Everyone is John and complaining that your character options are too limited
>it's like playing Dread and complaining because you don't like Jenga
>it's like playing RaHoWa and complaining about racism
>it's like playing 4e and complaining because you're bored

>>46310098
>playing intrigue based games
>with other human players

You know what the fucking players are going to do, so basically you brought this upon yourself.

>>46331925
> ...trying to come up with ways to make the princess take his dick

What's his Strength score?

>>46331930
I was gonna parse it out for you just to be nice, but as I was going over it, I realized that it's perfectly understandable... you're just a fucking idiot. Learn how to read.

>>46333086
2.20 an hour, then.

>>46337984
I know what all the words mean. But I just can't make sense of it. Like when you keep hitting space to see what your phone autocorrects into a whole sentence, then the next thing you read sounds equally like gibberish. Or if you say the same word enough and it stops sounding like a word. For some reason I'm getting that effect with that post.

>>46341633
Okay, I'll break it down for you.
Phillip K. Dick story. Earth recently fought a war with aliens on Ganymede, and now trade relations have resumed. However, the Earth government is paranoid about the trade shipments from Ganymede being trojan horses of some kind, so every new product is extensively tested. The story follows a group of testers examining Ganymedan toys for this purpose, and they expend all their time and effort on a kit of tiny robotic army men and just wave a board game on through without even reading the rules properly, and it turns out to be insidious propaganda. Which they would have caught if they had actually played the game right.

>>46310902
We used to do this, but we stopped after the party 8 INT barbarian hacked a military-grade supercomputer with 3 Nat20s and we realized this was getting a bit silly.

>>46341985
That makes sense. I wasn't really trying to ask for a breakdown, just pointing out the weird phenomenon I had. But thank you for putting up with my stupidity.

>>46333086
Trial by fire comrade. Failure is the best teacher.

>>46333086
Don't charge money for it - GMing should be done for fun, not for profit, and anyone who pays someone to GM is a cuck. You should still step up to the plate though, the only way you're going to learn is by doing it.

>>46315606
Tell that to Ivaylo the cabbage you mother fucker. He was literally a swine herd before he became the emperor.

I've always been confused when it comes to alignment and I've been wondering if I did something wrong in this session:

>playing a chaotic good half orc
>raised by racists
>thinks mountain dwarves are rapists and thieves
>one day, meet up with two new PCs
>a half elf
>and a mountain dwarf
>as a racist, already start plotting his demise
>when we enter a new dungeon, we split up into two groups
>one group is just me and the mountain dwarf
>as soon as we're isolated, I offer him a handshake with my left hand
>as soon as he takes it
>SMASH
>I roll a nat 20, hand is beyond saving
>as he winces in pain, I piss on him

The DM changed my alignment from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Evil. My question is... would racism be a good enough reason for a chaotic good character to do such a bad deed?

>>46342853
Does your alignment change back when you do good stuff because other than your hatred of mountain dwarves you are a stand up guy?

>>46310098
>we want a game of thrones style intrigue based game anon

This is where you should've left the group.

>>46342853
>My question is... would racism be a good enough reason for a chaotic good character to do such a bad deed?
No. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>46343026
What if the only bad things he does are mountain dwarf related? Like what if the guy is perfectly willing to give up his life to save some rando villagers but he'll also push a granny mountain dwarf down some stairs if he thinks he could get away with it?

>>46312559
Or if needed, roll behind a dm screen and just say "nah, it didn't work" no matter what the dice actually said.

>>46325686
>taking it in the ass for money

>>46330721
>having mercy for murderhobos

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>party is exploring a cave
>scare a monster that retreats deeper in
>party moves several hundred yards out of the cave to fight something
>one stays behind to try to search the cave for treasure while the party fights
>the monster attacks him
>he goes down
>the monster brings him to 2x death saving throw fails before the party is able to double back and distract it
>he bleeds out on his next turn and dies
>entire group: "welp, that campaign's over now. What kind of game should we bring characters for next week, DM?"

mfw

>>46312400
THIS. THIS EVERY FUCKING FIGHT!

Fine, you want to waltz through your enemies masturbating on your +3 bastard sword as you decapitate 1 HD Kobolds? Do it on your own damn time! If you want a game you can be proud to have survived, overcome extreme adversity, and rescued the motherfucking princess from certain doom, DON'T BITCH WHEN IT TURNS DANGEROUS!

>>46343066
Still no. If you maim someone just for being of a race you don't like, you're not good.

>>46343233
But are you really evil?

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>>46342853
You can't be this retarded, right? You just can't be.

>>46343269
I sincerely regret that I didn't realize until now that you're baiting.

>>46315804
Postpls?

>>46331891
>didn't point out that it was a house rule

>>46331976

It's the not pointing out houserule thing for like 80% of the problem. It makes it perpetuate.

It's super rare for people to take the time to be very explicit about what the house rules are when they are fiddly rules things. In part because they tend to forget what their houserules even are. Another part is just brain fart forgetting to mention.

>>46332615
This anon also highlights an important point. Humans expect patterns. There's a reason many "simplifications" of systems involve making as much of the system work the same way across circumstances as possible. That's because people *consistently* assume the rules continue to work the same way.

Mind have any of you actually considered how weak a critical attack really is? Like on a normal weapon? The weapons where crits are good are ones with a larger range, high multiplayer, or vorpal. The standard arms you get at level 1 tend to underwhelming for crits.

So the "20 = win" thing not only perpetuates past "not actually being rules" but also the fact that weapon crits aren't autokills either.

>>46343300
I'm really not. If someone is literally a saint apart from when one race is involved and they dont actively seek out that race to fuck with are they evil? Maiming a guy once is enough to make you evil but saving forty orphanages out of the goodness of your heart doesnt make you good?

>>46342697
>Ivaylo the cabbage
ruled for about a year before being deposed, executed in exile.

>>46342945
That's what I'm trying to figure out. The hate crime is the only real evil thing my character has done, but I wholeheartedly understand why that one action would make me Chaotic Evil

>>46343233
That's my point. It would make sense for the DM to change my alignment to evil because a hate crime is evil

>>46343275
So would you want me to stay at chaotic good even though I committed a hate crime?

>>46342993
this^10. even if you're a fan of GoT, you have to recognize the amount of normies that think theyre smart for following what's happening.

If not for GoT, college redditers would probably consider shows like Madmen and house of cards "boring and nothing but talking"

>>46343373
He also fought off the mongols multiple times and went from shit farmer to an emperor regardless of how short his rule was. How long have you ruled as an emperor of a country anon?

>>46343334
Definitely.

The only "logical" homerule for crit skill rolls would be "if this could have succeeded, a natural 20 causes it to succeed in a slightly more effective fashion". That's all it is for combat, after all.

But since there's not levels of success, that falls squarely on the DM and can't be measured it felt. And so nobody does it. Another casualty of the size of D&D's combat/non-combat rules gulf.

>>46343391
>>46343360
You're chaotic and you're neutral at best.

This shouldn't be difficult.

>>46343360
If you main someone and piss on him for being a race you don't like, you are a psychopath. A person who would do that is not a person who would save orphanages out of the goodness of his heart.

>>46343489
>>46343360
This. Your alignment is Chaotic Stupid.

>>46343489
But thats wrong. People have hated foreigners since the dawn of time but they will still help each other out. Now the hatred is just focused on one race.

>>46342697
>>46315606
Wasn't there some flamingo farmer in China who wound up leading an army and becoming emperor or something?

>>46343360
>I'm not evil, I just think all black people should die and I will actively go out of my way to harm black people when there's a low chance of me suffering repercussions.

That's what you sound like.

>>46343625
There was a guy who was a guard transporting prisoners until they broke out, at which point he became a bandit, joined up with a rebel general, started fighting with said general, won and became the emperor of china.

He was supposedly super chill.

>>46343678
But whenever black people arent involved he saves hundreds of lives because he feels thats the right thing to do.

>>46343699
Moonman?

>>46315491
>>in D&D
Some dumbfuck band of LG murderhobos ride into town, higher level than you and kill you for loot and exp.

>>46343699
He's still a sadistic xenophobe and these are evil traits. In practical terms, he might do far more positive things in the world than he does negative. In alignment terms, that doesn't matter. He still does evil things with evil intentions no matter how rarely, that makes him evil.

Your characters are in unknown territory that is inhabited by hostile entities and your half-orc goes out of his way to 'plot the demise of,' injure and humiliate someone that would otherwise be fighting alongside your half-orc as an ally. This means that your half-orc values his racism above his motivation for adventuring in the first place, which means that the most defining feature of this character that you are playing is his evil actions.

So yes, you're playing a fucking evil character.

>>46343806
By that logic if he ever went out of his way to do something good with good intentions he would be a good character.

>>46343847
It's harder to be good than to be evil, though. If being good was that easy, everyone would do it.

>>46343909
Its hard to be properly evil as well though.

>>46343847
If he did a good action for good intentions despite having a multitude of reasons not to, such as the racism in question, that's a huge step towards the character being seen as good.

For example, if the half-orc was willing to save an orphanage full of dwarf children when there's no one present to either punish him for acting on his racism or to reward him for his good deeds if he saves them? That's an extremely good, borderline redeeming action.

What he did with the dwarf in his party is the opposite. He and the people he's working with are that much more likely to suffer and fail at their work because of the harm he's inflicted out of racism in an obviously dangerous situation. His desire to kill the dwarf overrides his desire to complete his mission or even satisfy whatever motivations compels him to go on the mission in the first place.

>>46343964
Why does it have to be full of dwarf children, is saving a regular orphanage not a good act?

>>46343991
He needs to be show that he is capable of overwhelming his evil tendencies in the name of good.

If he allows his evil tendencies to direct him in spite of good and is incapable of doing good in spite of his evil tendencies, then he is evil.

>>46344067
So if he was to go out and willingly lay down his life to let some random non dwarf villagers get away from a monster he would still be evil.

>>46319182

That's how I play epic intelligence in Scion, each dot gets you contigencies per session. It's hilarious

>>46344132
Yes? Evil people can still choose to die for what they perceive to be the greater good and they're still evil as a result.

Also, almost no real racist suffers racism to the point where they violently plot a member of a race's demise from the moment they meet them and proceed to act on it in a dangerous situation where it actively damages their chances of survival. That's not just racist, that's overwhelming irrational hatred strong enough to get someone locked up in an asylum for their homicidal and equally self-destructive insanity.

>>46344200
Well in fairness they dont even know whats in the dungeon. A half orc probably isnt too worried about a handful of goblins or a bear or something. Plus he only maimed the guy rather than kill him.

Meanwhile in Gurps you can simply have Charitable, Pacifism (Can't harm innocents) etc with Intolerance (Mountain Dwarves) and Callous without issue.

Alignments are shit.

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>>46342103
>the party 8 INT barbarian hacked a military-grade supercomputer with 3 Nat20s and we realized this was getting a bit silly

>>46344267
He maimed and pissed on someone he is meant to be working alongside and he was, I quote, 'plotting his demise.' It's still a life-threatening situation too, even if it's goblins and/or bears.

Also, thread's in autosage so now this awful shit can die.

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>>46311922
Spaghetti's straight, at least until it gets hot.

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>>46312294
OP revealed for the sham he is

>>46315606
D&D characters don't need armies, they are armies.

>>46317925
>We both hate Cersei.
speak for yourself, she is my milfy queenfu

>>46343678
I don't think I was ready to read on 4chan that hurting blacks is evil

>>46335083
but drow live under everything
should it be inferior superdrow?

>>46335144
The true cancer of our generation.

Try putting some adds on the university with a contact email address or something like that. There´s gotta be someone.

>>46325582
D R O W