What is his alignment (D&D)?

Is murderer an alignment?

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>>46243644
Lawful Evil?

>>46243669
No more than hobo

Lawful Good in the Movies and Early Comics, no matter how shit he is at protecting people on a small scale.
Chaotic Good in the Recent Comics, This guy is a fucking Anarchist Punk.

>>46243669

Well, normies would say that he is Lawful Good, and that doesn't mean one can not kill.

See: Paladins.

>>46243710
You mean Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid, right?

>>46243710
This. Superman is the posterboy for LG. Of course I know this is just meme shit about the recent movies.

>>46243644
Lawful Hypocrite

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>>46243753
kek

>>46243736
>>46243710
>Lawful good
>in the movies
In Man of Steel he crashes an Army satellite and tells a high-ranking military officer not to fuck with him. Superman does not give a shit about the 'law' in these new movies.

>>46243820

Neutral Good, maybe?

>>46243842
Yeah, I'd say he is NG bordering on CG at times.

>>46243820
>army sattelite trying to track him
>explicitely tells the general he wants to help him, just on his terms

/co/ is that way. MoS had problems but it didn't mischaracterize Superman (that problem is reserved for Pa Kent jesus christ what)

>>46243866

You're right, CG is the best for Superman:

" A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

Chaotic good can be a dangerous alignment when it disrupts the order of society and punishes those who do well for themselves."

>>46243867
>It didn't mischaracterize Superman
You must have a very unique idea of who Superman is.

>>46243925
No, i'm just not an autist. Yes he broke 'the rule' but it fairly showed how hard it was for him to do it.

The movie was a mess for other reasons. Facing and killing Zod should've been a 2nd movie event to put Superman in a deep depression for 3. MoS should have been WAY more upbeat.

The tone of the movie was off but the depiction of him was true to the circumstances.

I enjoyed MoS when it came out and consider it a decent film. It's not the Superman film we deserved or needed and oh god BvS is gonna be so shit jesus christ

But that doesn't make Superman poorly portrayed in MoS.

>>46243644
Shadows over Innistrad werewolf.

>>46243990
It was a terrible movie and very poor adaptation of super man. You have bad taste and you should feel bad.

>>46243990
You seem to be acting on the assumption that I'm upset that Superman killed General Zod. I am not.

>>46244106
You should be

>>46243644
True boring

>>46244122
Why? Superman doesn't really have a hard, fast no-kill rule like Batman. I don't really think Superman should be killing regular folks, but alien warlords intent on destroying all life on planet Earth are fair game.

>>46244155
That's just false. You're ignorant and taking about things you don't actually know about. Please actually go read some super man, for your own sake, so you don't look this stupid when you try to talk about it. Or just stop talking.

>>46244197
You seem really upset. I have read lots of Superman comics. Care to point out some examples of what I just said being false?

>>46243820
That's unrelated to Lawful.

>>46244152
Lawful Boring would be more accurate, desu senpai.

>>46243820
he cares about the law. He is the law.

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>>46244122
>You should be

Not "YOU WILL!"

Son, I'm disappoint.

>>46243644
Man, I don't even like Superman, and his characterization in that movie still bothered me.

Probably Neutral Good, or a soft Chaotic Good.

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>>46244505
>soft Chaotic Good

You made me smile.

>>46244197
He executed 3 kryptonians in the comics.

The Donner films are not gospel for fuck's sake

And if I want faggots arguing over 3 year old movie
I would have stayed on co

>>46243644
I dont understand the appeal for superman can any superfags explain why they like him?

>>46244283
>I have read lots of Superman comics.
OK

Let me cite examples where superman didn't kill people. Oh wait, how about you open any of these comics you've read, turn to any page, and watch him manage not to murder anyone.

>>46244537

Yawn.

>>46244537
>And if I want faggots arguing over 3 year old movie
>I would have stayed on co

You and me both. Am I right?

>>46244754
It depends on the author. At times, his stories have a certain mythology that only ancient legends can match. Or its the moments when you see a dude who can carry the whole world yet is still fundamentally human; the dichotomy between power and fundamentally human morality. The ultimate limits on that power are also interesting, but not as necessary to discuss.

It's also because, in his better interpretations, he doesn't fight to punish the guilty, but to protect the innocent. We like him, ultimately, because he is the gold in humanity given superhuman power to enact it: he is Pa and Ma Kent's child, and he doesn't forget that you, yes, You, anon-kun, matter.

We like Ideal superman because he tells us that, as weak as we are in comparison, we will never NOT matter.

>>46244966

This

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This is how you Smite Evil

>>46243644
LG

If he was in an actual Superman movie.

>>46244901
I never said he murdered people willy-nilly. I said that he does not have some hard-fast rule like Batman does.

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>Comics
Started off Chaotic Good back in the 30s, then dove right into Lawful Good during WW2 and the implementation of the CCA, then transitioned over into Neutral Good during the 90s and into the Crisis Eras, and has now gone full circle back to Chaotic Good.

>Old Movies
Neutral Good

>Cartoons
Lawful Good

>New Movies
Fuckup "Good"

>>46243867
What alignment has Pa Kent?
Chaotic Neutral?

>>46245256
In the better interpretations, dude was LG as fuck. In MoS, TN or NE, If only because he recommends letting others die for the sake of personal gain, including himself.

>>46245317
Sounds perfectly Chaotic Neutral to me.

>>46243644
It obviously varries from iteration to iteration, but he's always been something of a renegade, despite his boyscout rep, so I'd say chaotic good is the best way to go.

>>46243736
>>46243710
>>46243713
Does he fit lawful good, considering how often he clashes with the governments of the DC world? He follows the law when it's convenient, but even going back to golden era comics, he has always clashed with government and authority.

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>>46244966
Thanks for the explanation, makes me respect him a little more, although im more partial to the Green Arrow/Batman type heroes.

>>46244448
>He is the law.
I thought that was somebody else -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVvvdM8sjkM

>>46245765
He doesn't have a particularly anti-
establishment mentality, though.

>>46245971
And that's fine. Apples and oranges, man, apples and oranges.

>>46243820
"Lawful" doesn't mean "Always follows the law to the letter", it can just mean having a code of conduct.

>>46246308
No it does not.

>>46245041
Batman murdered people all the time in the silver age, actually. He just had a rule about never using GUNS. I don't know exactly why they decided to make him adverse to killing criminals, but it was a really bad decision.

>>46247490
Golden Age

Silver Age was the years of "Old Chum" and "Diamond encrusted solid gold police badge that was too expensive to forge so only the real Batman had it"

>>46247549
My bad.

>>46245853
the governments in cape comics are almost universally horrendous. Supes (and most any superhero really) is a goddamn saint for tolerating the BS they pull on a regular basis

>>46247615
Amanda Waller did nothing wrong, you caped cuck.

>>46247400
If it doesn't, then that means Monks and Ascetics can't be Lawful, meaning they all now lose their class abilities at level 1

>>46243644
lawful stupid

>>46247638
Think about it from the other side of things. If Lawful means you just have a code of conduct, that implies that Chaotic characters cannot have a code of conduct, and thus the randumb idiots would be playing chaotic correctly.

Do you really want to open that can of worms?


Personally I just say that Lawful means they follow the laws of whatever society they were born and raised in. And no, that doesn't mean they can be raised in randumb land because randumb land has no laws, faggot. And doesn't exist.

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>>46247699
"Lawful" means that you have a code of contact that you strive to meet at all times.

"Chaotic" means that you do what seems like the best idea at the time, at all times. You don't necessarily intentionally subvert any kind of laws or morals - they just don't really enter into your consideration.

Man I'm glad I screencapped this...

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>>46247773
And someone else screencapped this!

This is the final word in all alignment debates. Forever.

>>46247773
But a code of conduct does enter into the picture immediately when the Chaotic character decides to do something. Are you going to hear the chaotic good bard say "Nah, not going to rescue the woman from that burning building, I don't have a code of conduct so I just do what I want!"? Obviously not. That's fucking stupid. The Chaotic Good character is Chaotic Good because they have a CODE OF CONDUCT where they strive to do GOOD, even if that good must totally ignore all law.

>>46247699
Personally, the way I see it, Code of Conduct is far more simplified of a term, and should be used to describe the Good/Evil axis instead.

Law/Chaos is far more about discipline, stricture, and having an actual well thought out Codified set of personal rules, rather than just a code.

So for example, take the people who organize everything in their lives, or have a mantra that they constantly refer two.

Really, the Law/Chaos divide is mostly a separation of Instinct/Gut/Intuition vs Discipline/Order/Oath.

A CG does good because it's what his heart drives him to be. An LG does good because it's what he has Vowed/Molded himself to be.

The problem is that it's described as Lawful, when really rather than being related to Law, its related to Logos, or Order, which is the true opposite of Chaos, or "Flux"

>>46243644
>What's his alignment (D&D)
First answer me to this, what's his race (D&D)?

>>46247490
Didn't the latest movie have him using guns all the time?

>>46247817
>The Chaotic Good character is Chaotic Good because they have a CODE OF CONDUCT where they strive to do GOOD, even if that good must totally ignore all law.

No. That's far, far too formal for a Chaotic Good character.

A Good character is Good because when faced with a choice, he pics the Good choice. He doesn't (necessarily) have a "code", he is just naturally a good guy and so naturally picks to Do The Right Thing, because it's The Right Thing To Do.

Performing an action strictly because some code tells you to do that action is a hallmark of Law, not Good.

>>46243644
LG+NG+CG+LN at the same time

>>46247915
There isn't a race for superman in DnD, anon, because Superman isn't from DnD.

>>46247490
I bet you could count the number of golden age bad guys Batman killed on one hand. That Supes and Bats were constantly killing people in the 30s and 40s is a myth.

>>46247955
So you admit chaotic good characters have a code of conduct where they must do good. :^)

>>46248036
Exactly, now you already know what alignment Superman is.

>>46243644
Male, Murder.

>>46245853
You don't have to follow the laws if you're lawful good, especially of those laws actually make things worse for people.

If anything, disobeying the letter of a law in order to follow the spirit of the concept of laws would be the most lawful good action to take.

>>46248604
Fuck off tumblr

>>46246308
No that's wrong too, lawful means respecting and supporting structures and systems when give the opportunity to do so. The most prevalent structures are laws and legal systems, and lawful characters support them when given the chance.

"code of conduct" has nothing at all to do with it, fucking everyone has a code of conduct.

You can be lawful and find a particular set of laws not worth following, but that's because they go against the other half of your alignment, be it evil or good.

>>46247773
I pity the game group you force to conform to this uber-retarded idea of alignments

>>46243644

Well, he embodies America, so he has to be some flavor of Evil.

>>46244901
Supes and doomsday beat each other to death, dude. He kills when he thinks its necessary

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>comics and cartoons are kiddy shit
>Supes always wins against Batman
>movies are a mature medium for professional adults
>Batman fucks Superman raw

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>>46243644
does Mutants and masterminds have an alignment?
want to know because a friend is going to run a game, and i'm interested in learning about the system.

>>46243710
>Lawful Good in the Movies and Early Comics
Early Comics Superman was wanted by the FBI and wrecked people's car lots for selling shitty and dangerous cars.

He was CG as fuck.
>>46243866
NG with a Chaotic streak sums him up pretty nicely.

>>46243644
I felt he ended up pretty Neutral Good

He really only cares about himself and close allies in MoS, either through his 'I don't want people to find out but I'll save a sinking bus of kids' to 'Best stop my bad countrymen because I like living here'

In the end he does what he has to do with a sort of 'good-intention' to everything but he's hardly writing to the letter of the law (destroying crap-loads of property, violating air space etc) nor is he a free spirit since he spends most the time just trying to fit in with society as best he can.

I always thought the satellite thing at the end is him basically going 'Stop wasting time and effort on tracking me and go use the tax payers cash on more important things, I'm no the enemy.'

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>>46243710
Early Superman can be a bit of a dick.

>>46252800
It's the only way Jimmy will learn

>>46243644
According to the 3E definition of alignment, Neutral Good.

>A neutral good character typically acts altruistically, without regard for or against lawful precepts such as rules or tradition. A neutral good character has no problems with cooperating with lawful officials, but does not feel beholden to them. In the event that doing the right thing requires the bending or breaking of rules, they do not suffer the same inner conflict that a lawful good character would.

Many would argue that Superman embodies Lawful Good, and in many versions of the character you'd be correct, but the Superman in MoS and SvB clearly demonstrates that he's willing to perform acts of heroism even when it goes against the will of lawfully elected governments. His upbringing (and the fact that much of his adult life involved him not performing acts of heroism) indicates that he has a very muted, if any, sense of duty to others compared to other representations of the character. This is a Superman who was taught from a young age that he had no responsibility to help others - his mother says point-blank that "You don't owe the world a thing.", and advises him to give up being a hero if that's what he wants, while his father almost recommended he let dozens of children die when he was in a position to save them, because it would have revealed Clark for what he was, and made his life harder.

Nevertheless, he chooses to do good, not because he was taught that it was the right thing to do, not because he feels obligation to his country, or even the world, but because it is his choice. Thus, I'd categorize him as Neutral Good.

>>46247793
Except that list is shit.

>>46252800
Getting him a smoking jacket with the Superman logo on it so he can lounge around in his secret identity, and identify himself to everyone. It seems Jimmy was the dick here.

>>46252800
Is this a ruse? I want to read this commic.

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>>46243644
Dirty fucking hypocritical moralfag.

>>46254755
>stale decade old b8
Seriously anon, you can do better than that
>inb4 tries to dig deeper by strawmanning about Kenshiro like the old meme

>>46251395
No it doesn't but you could take something like an alignment as a complication.

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>>46254691
>>46254691
That was the era of Superdickery


He always had a good reason for doing whatever he did on the cover

>>46254691
Most of those are just covers featuring out of context situations to make superman seem like a weird asshole and get people to read the comic out of curiosity. There really isn't much to them unless red kryptonite or something similar is involved

>>46244754
For me, it's just that he exemplifies everything not to do with a character (unless you plan on killing said character off at some point.)

>>46255120
>>46255031
It'd get me to read, at least twice, depending on how funny his adventures were despite not being a really real dick.

Wasn't there one of him punching out a waitress though? I'd love to see the context for those.

>>46248983
Alright.
masculine, homicide

>>46247773

How does a neutral person get to know anyone given that mindset if they spurn social contact with those they don't immediately recognize? They sould like a bunch of basement dwelling neets.

>>46245994

Worst Dredd.

>>46258779
They don't spurn social contact, they just don't seek it out beyond their immediate group of family neighbors, and co-workers. The different between Good, Neutral, and Evil is that Good innately wants to help everyone, Neutral innately wants to help friends and family, and Evil innately wants to help only itself.

Put another way, on seeing someone he doesn't know being robbed, a Good person acts to stop it directly (usually within reason - an 80 pound asthmatic lightweight shouldn't be expected to stand up to a serious thug), a Neutral person calls the cops or for some other form of help, and an Evil person keeps on walking while saying "it's not my problem."

>>46248132
You're probably not retarded, but you do need to work on reading comprehension.

A "code of conduct" is, by definition, codified, written down, or laid out in some formal way. At the very least it's a set of rules one holds in ones head at all times and strives not to break - conscious thought enters into it. A Chaotic being *doesn't have* a code of conduct because they do not consciously measure the ethics of what they do. They do what they feel like doing in the moment and consider whether it is more or less beneficial to them (usually without rational thought involved - that is, I don't need to ponder whether or not I should eat when I'm hungry - I just get hungry and so grab food)

When you combine Chaos and Good, you get someone who does Good because he feels like doing Good the majority of the time. He doesn't have a code of conduct. It simply (generally) doesn't occur to him to act any way other than Good.

>>46249241
"Force" nothing, this is what we've come up with after 10 or so years of playing. It's also the most sensible interpretation.

>>46243710
>Chaotic Good in the Recent Comics, This guy is a fucking Anarchist Punk.
That's actually closer to the early comics than most depictions

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>>46244966

>>46263045

I wish we could have a movie Superman like pic related.

Where are the true heroes nowadays?
Why do we feel the need to show every hero as a dark anti-hero?

M-maybe if we could believe in true heroes again...
... maybe they would become... real.

>>46244197
Yeah, you're right! Superman would've been all like "I can only save this young family right in front of me by killing this raving lunatic who wants to destroy all life on earth, so obviously the correct choice is to let them die because I don't kill people myself" in the comics. Superman is well known to be an absolute sociopath without the most basic understanding of actions and consequences even a child could wrap their head around.

>>46263110

Movie Supes is not remotely Inspiring. Which I really feel is a mistake.

>>46263126

Or, you know...just fall backwards while holding his grip. They really didn't do a good job of selling 'This is the only choice'

>>46263128
It's not easy to write an Inspiring character without it coming across as overbearing, sanctimonious or pathetic, and even if they pulled that off, there would still be people complaining that it's just that.

Then again if a viewer's edge is sufficiently sharp, that's rather unavoidable.

>lol he told that faggy cop he believs in him top cuck I bet the guy goes back to eating donuts and taking petty bribes for not giving parking tickets next day what a fag

>>46263149
The duel could have gone forever that way though. With every move Zod could keep throwing more trolleys at Superman, and you saw what sort of damage he was causing. In best case, Superman would have become a designated Zod custodian.

>>46243713
He kills way more people than Zod in that movie. He's directly responsible for the death of thousands, and the only time he shows any sign of emotion is when he's snapping the neck of a psychotic killer because he's from the same planet as him. But I guess even that didn't mean much to Kal-El as he just moments later kisses Lois who also doesn't seem to mind all the mindless death and destruction that surrounds them.

>>46243990
>it fairly showed how hard it was for him to do it.
lol

no

>>46245016
Yes, and then he exiled himself to the Moon to sulk for months for doing that. It wasn't something he just did and then got over like Man of Murder.

>>46245016
couldn't he just snap their necks? They're powerless, right?

>>46263307
It would be too quick, I guess? Have to have some suffering as a retaliation.

>>46263246

Calm down, Bruce!

>>46263179
Like Batman and the Joker?

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>>46243644