Warhammer Fantasy General

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1st for the best fighters in the Warhammer World.

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First for best game

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Well, first for the Lady!

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Anyone else remember this series? I haven't read it in the better part of a decade now, but have been considering digging it out from some old moving boxes to give it another go.

Anyone got any advice on which models to buy to start a Dwarf Warband for Mordheim?

Would a Dwarf Warrior box, and then see about getting some bits off friends to convert them with the different weapon types be a good idea?

Then buying just a couple of Slayers?

>>46124224
Who does those minis?

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Cool unit fillers thread?

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>>46124999
Cool unit fillers thread.

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>>46125056

So I am rather stumped on the choice of army.

My local group lacks a Vampire Counters or Warriors of chaos player and both of their themes intrests me.

Can someone drop the pros and cons for each side and which is more fun?

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>>46125096

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>>46125133
Unit fillers for the unit filler god!

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>>46125160
Incredible as it sounds, some people seem to have issues with using these fuckawesome fillers.

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>>46124919
A box of the most multi part dwarves you can find and a slayer or two would probably be your best bet, that or a lot of random dwarves of ebay

>>46124953
Russian alternative.

>>46125121
>WoC
>Pro
>Low model count, making it easier to individualize your models as well as being faster to assemble and paint
>Some of the best default stat lines in the game: Many armies need augments or magical banners to be on par with your standard Chaos Warrior, sometimes even multiple
>Armor armor everywhere, multiple attacks too

>Cons
>Skip the shooting phase. Your army doesn't have a shooting phase.
>Small army. You'll almost always be outnumbered, which - depending on the scenario and your opponent - can cause issues.
>While shared with VC, WoC are a tournament army and thus many players will know their Ins and Outs better than things like, say, WElf or Beastmen lists.

Was there ever an answer for why the ogres went to grey and then suddenly pink again? I really liked the greyish skin and it seemed fucking weird to see them as pink dudes again.

>>46125189
For what purpose?
They impact gameplay not at all, and as >>46125056
in particular shows, they can make a unit much more like it ought to. In this case, a proper mob of green skins in relative disarray.

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>>46125121
VC
>pros
spooky
very good magic phase
very high quality tarpits

>cons
somewhat fragile hammers
no shooting

also lots and lots of minis

>>46125160
I love art recreation minis.

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>>46125291
Maybe there are different ogre ethnicities. Seems reasonable to me.

>>46125474
>>46125281

I might go Warriors of chaos simply for the stronk Barbarian factor...

What units are the better units, and would a mounted chaos army work.

Horsemen, chariots and knights.

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>>46125622
You can do a fully mounted army as chaos has chariots and mounted marauders as core, but there is usually little reason to do so, as a few warrior or marauder blocks are very important from a tactical perspective. All the units are decent tier, but you want to avoid the lore of tzeentch for your wizards as it's surprisingly terrible, and hw/s or halberd are the best equipment for warrior blocks. Marauders are kinda poor, but not unusable.

Base your unit choices on what you like the look of, WoC is a little strong and you don't have to min max much at all to be on par with everyone else.

Remember to look around at other manufacturers. GW isn't the be all end all.

>>46125508
Sure, it's just that in 6th it was suddenly ALL GREY ALL THE TIME and then in 8th they acted like they didn't exist and every single ogre shown was pink again

>>46125815
How important are warriors then? Because I love the look of all mounted shit for Warriors of chaos and the warriors models look like dogshit clone wars era stuff.

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>>46125902
Well without warriors you lack an anvil upon which to strike your hammer.

>>46126092
Any good Warrior proxy thens that are not super expensive

>>46124841
I'd like to read this but I can't find an online copy as I don't like having physical books I need to carry with me. Not enough room in my bag as it is.

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>>46126223
I'm fond of mom miniatures, avatars of war also has some nice ones.

Shield wolf also has some very nice looking marauders, but they aren't out quite yet.

What is the base size of the Forgeworld Keeper of Secrets? Forgeworld only provides an oval base for it sadly.

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rip old art

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>>46127668
We all know that pain

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>>46127723
CAN'T WAKE UP

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Would you be interested in a game system where rather than having blocks of guys and heros, you would have heros who each lead their own personal bands of dudes about?

>>46129477
Fucking Hirst
And to answer your question, isn't that just any skirmish game where you have a central hero?

>>46129520
If I understand, it's more a block game where each unit belongs to a particular character (Special or Your Dudes).

To which I say it would be kinda odd, not enough of a selling point on its own, and at the same time not a problem.

>>46129520
Not a skirmish, a mass battle game with regiments. Each regiment would have a central hero.

Rather than having units and heros, you'd have "champions" and champions would have their unit of grunts. Each champion would have his list of peculiarities as decided by the player, and these would likely spread out to the unit as a whole or effect his personal prowess, they might have different orders they could potentially give their unit. Sort of like mordheim in it's campaignyness and character centric aesthetic but instead of Oberwald the crossbowman who can shoot near anything, you've got Oberwald's deadeyes, a regiment of crossbows who Oberwald allows to once a game reroll the misses on a crowwbow volley, or something of that nature.

I think it would be an interesting way to add character and more customization to a war game.

>>46129748
As oppose to just attaching a hero to a regiment and such? That would be pretty cool. I know that there is an RPG called Domains at War whose battle system is like that.

>>46129748
To an extent, play Mercenaries in Warmahordes. A lot of their units and nearly all of their solos are named characters. You don't get bandits and archers, you get Croe's Cutthroats and Cylena's Nyss Hunters. It would be cool to apply that design to a wargame closer to WHFB, but if you literally don't have generics (or at least Custom) units it might get frustrating because there are only so many options and you get only one of each tops.

>>46130022
The only major issue I see is units have a wide range of capability despite their appearance. Normally if I see 10 crossbows it's 10 crossbows, but if they're a highly experienced group of men with much higher capability then a bog standard crossbow unit, I can't glean that just by looking at them.

If they've become powerful over a campaign in which both players have participated they're both going to be aware of what to look out for, but in a pick up match I may have to sit though a speech of my opponent detailing the capabilities of each regiment.

>>46130145
The idea is to EXPAND Your Dudesness. The main reason I never liked warmahordes is that it literally CAN NOT be Your Dudes, this would be more like creating very simplistic rpg characters to lead each unit, where you say choose "Dark champion", name him Skon the Hungerer, equip him with chaos armor and a daemon blade, give him the "cannibal" special rule that increases the chance of other units to panic when they see him rout one of there friends as he and his mates start muching corpses, and give him the ability to make some order that lets the second rank attack in full but his unit incurs a defensive penalty or something like that.

>>46124841
Hell yeah! I read it first as a young'un and then again perhaps a year ago. I love books but by no means an exclusive litwanker, and I thought it stood up fairly well given that it was far from my favourite growing up. The lead character was more boring than I remember (because he's probably a self-insert x10 coolness) but the diversity in the adventuring parties kept it fresh. The author writes believable individuals and character relationships fairly well.

>>46130374
An interesting cause, and getting to be a selling point, but on-table recognition starts to be an issue if you can build a hero for a given group of R&F in a number of ways. I don't think it's insurmountable, but you'd probably want a smaller scale, more like 1k or 1500 point warhammer where you've got fewer than 10 units, as otherwise keeping track of all of them would start to suck. Averaging at five units would seem ideal.

You'd seem to need
1) A few types of hero
2) Some generic hero options
3) Some options restricted to one or more types of hero
4) Several unit types. Not all hero types would necessarily be able to lead all unit types but having more variety than 1:1 so a Dark Champion like Skon the Hungerer could lead barbaric raiders... or maybe get some more disciplined troops in the form of better armored (Dark) warriors. Or perhaps he wants to hunt some manflesh and lends his bonuses to archers today. But you won't find him in knights, because he doesn't have his horse, or perhaps the tech-savvy engineer corps isn't good material for a Dark Champion. And he certainly won't lead Holy Monks.

>>46130871
I certainly agree with your points. I was thinking the game would likely top out at 7 units per side before getting too unwieldy.

As for grunt types I was thinking you'd have some reasonable limitations. A dark champion on horse back could lead other cav or possibly a pack of hunting hounds, but he couldn't lead a hellcannon crew or summoned demons, while a nurglite sorcerer may lead a block of summoned plague bearers or standard barbarains, but couldn't lead chaos ogres, and as a sorcerer his unit size would be limited to more of a body guard then a proper regiment. An imperial engineer may lead handgunners or an artillery battery but not a bunch of reiksgaurd.

Perhaps beyond that each type of commander has a "command" stat that dictates how large a unit they could lead. Perhaps certain units require more less command. A skaven with x command may be able to lead 20 clan rats but only 2 rat ogres for example.

Imma post it again since I really want to get some feedack on the unit.
Lizardmen Impaler, 14pts a pop, Special Choice

M4 WS 3 BS 3 S4 T4 W1 I1 A2/(3) Ld8

Equipment: Spears, Javelin, Tower Shield
(Tower Shield grants an additional armour save point against ranged combat (so 5+ as a base), but gives you no benefit in cc)

Special Rules: Cold-Blooded, Predatory Fighter, Scaly Skin (5+), Preemptive Strike

Preemptive Strike: When declaring a charge, the unit may perform a shooting attack from the first two ranks as in the shooting phase on the target. It may do so even if technically not in range. Should this cause a rout treat it as if the enemy had fled as a charge reaction.


As for >>46121679
Preemptive strike is just an extra shot you get to make even when charging. Kinda like precursor spears in total war. TG are 14 points too, but it's always better to overcost than undercost when it comes to custom unit imo, and the tradeoff seems fair to me. 1 less ws/I, spears instead of halberd, armour in cc reduced by 1 and no special rule for protecting slann.

It's as close to a skirmisher unit as Saurus are going to get. I do agree that it's inherently anti-synergistic though. Javelins want you to go msu while spears advocate larger units. Maybe I'll give em sword's n 'boards instead and let them keep one as in melee from shields (so they'd have a 4+).

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>>46131897
Doesn't seem unbalanced to me

Not sure I like the tower shield though.

Over all the unit feels like roman legionaries with their pilum instead of javelin skirmishers.

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>>46124999

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>>46132084
heh

>>46126092

Nurgle Gorebeast chariots disagree. T6 5W 3+ that's hit on 5s by most units.

>>46126223

Warriors are pretty cheap in itself nowadays. Just get two start collecting boxes, that's around $125 with standard 25% off that you can easily find, and you have a small army in itself with 24 warriors, 10 knights two chariots and two sorcerers.

>>46132044
That's the basic idea. Shaka's Impis were partially inspired by the Roman Legions.

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>there are no bow maunders

why though

>>46132849
Aren't bows somewhat harder to maintain? You need special wood for the bow and you need to keep the string dry. Probably wouldn't work so well compared to javelins or throwing axes, considering the rough and tumble raiding life style most Marauders have.

>>46132885
Bows are not terribly difficult to maintain, particularly next to damn plate armor.

Their absence it simply due to game play niche protection, not really a genuine lore reason.

>>46132920
I still figure they prefer throwing weapons because they're easier to carry and can be used in close quarters in a pinch. Plus a lot of their plate armour is made by Chaos Dwarfs or gifted by the gods.

Bows wouldn't really add much to Chaos anyway, since they kinda suck as it is unless you deploy them en masse like High/Wood Elves, and maybe Bretonnia if you want to lose.

>>46132966
Yea the chaos dwarves make it but keeping it from going to shit is pretty difficult.

And the reason I complain is because I like the idea of a bunch of war paint wearing sneaky marauder skirmishers with bows. I suppose I could just run a unit like that with ungor raiders rules.

Any chances for Cyanide to go back to Dogs of War? ;_;
I like bloodbowl, but they could at least put one guy still on their earlier game

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>>46133122
>Confrontation

>>46132885
>>46132920
>>46132966
Personally I don't think Crossbows would be out of place for Chaos

>>46133324
>heavily armored chaos siege crossbows with pavices
would play/10

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>>46133340
>>46131897
>>46130374

A system like this where you could equip your unit with any combination of equipment would be nice for alleviating blind spots like this.

>>46125160
wow, this one's awesome

>>46129748
isn't that how LotR wargame works?

>>46132920
indeed. I believe Hung have horse archers in fluff, IIRC

>>46133759
More or less, but the game has almost no customization.

It's mostly just "Lurtz" "12 uruk hunters" there is a unit

"goblin chief" "12 moria goblins" there is a unit

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>>46133859
You might want to look up "LotR Battle Companies" or "WHFB Regiments of Renown"

>>46133324
Crossbows would be totally out of place for chaos, they suggest a level of technological sophistication chaos simply not have.

>>46133009
Chaos armor doesn't need basic upkeep, it's a gift from the chaos gods.

>>46125902
Warriors are pretty important because they're really good, dead hard and dead killy.

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>>46133998
Those are just more skirmish games, and isn't really the idea I'm going for. I want something with the unit individuality, progression, and character of a skirmish game like mordheim or regiments of renown but on the 100 to 200 or so dudes per side of WHFB. The idea is basically to take that idea and just scale it up, so rather than your 7 units being single models, they are 7 different movement trays or bands of skirmishers.

>>46134021
It depends on the chaos warriors doesn't it? Norscans may well be just a bit behind the empire but Kurgan would absolutely have none. Also I don't think it being chaos prevents it from getting shit, unless you're a chosen maybe.

>>46133859
What do you mean by no customisation?

The warband leader you pick is a large part of it and will influence how you play the war and, goblin captain us very different from a shaman. Its not just 12 goblins, they have equipment options, banners, horns etc. Many armies will allow you to upgrade their units to some kind of veterans depending on what hero you pick.

Obv it's not as much customisation as WHFB but it's very clear and easy to keep track of which is the aim of the game I feel.

>>46134021
Crossbows don't have to be that hi-tech
Simple wood and metal mechanisms launching metal bolts just always seemed suitably brutal to me.

>>46134139
>>46134021
Orcs have crossbows and ballistas, ogres have fuck hueg crossbows, chaos has fucking cannons.

>>46134118
I'm not saying that the level of customization is bad design, just that it doesn't really accomplish the goal of "your dudesyness" which is the primary aim of the concept in the first place. "orc captain with optional shield bow or warg" leading "a bunch of orcs with optional command" doesn't accomplish the "Grizzled commander of a gun line who has hatred(beastmen) because he lost his eye (and one BS with it) to my friends beastman army and who's combat experience has let him choose the perk "Not until you see the whites of their eyes" which gives his unit a huge bonus to hit on overwatch leading a unit of gunners who's barrel of dwarfish ale gives them +1 on panic tests" feel

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>>46134177
There are at least two ancient chaos warrior models with crossbows I could find.

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>>46134333
I can not put into words how deeply I want a bunch of ye old chaos warriors mixed with gw mixed with 3rd parties as units. They look so great painted up with modern paint jobs.

>>46134333
Are you sure that's not a pickaxe?

>>46134426
The other side has a bolt loaded in and his name is "fardoom". Silly pose though

>>46134426
why don't dwarfs have pickaxe crossbows yet?

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>>46134591
Snorri is still on the run after his name was put into the book of grudges for inventing those

No less that three miners were killed after a bolt was avcidently fired on the picks backswing, a cave moth was struck by the bolt and flew off resetling some ways up the mountain, but it knocked some snow loose on the way caving the miners in. The moth is also in the book of grudges

>>46134042
While I'm all for making "your dudes" as yourdudesy as possible, wouldn't that make an already slow game even slower?

>>46127723
This isn't a real thing, right...?

>>46134623
It would make army composition slower, but I don't think it would actually effect gameplay too much necessarily provided it was executed correctly

>>46134639
That is official aos art

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Fluff wise, how many ogres could a Grail Knight defending a shrine fight off without making him seem over the top Mary sue? Trying to think of some fluff to show off a Grail knights impressive fighting abilities without taking it too far

>>46134779
One, the Chief.

The rest didn't want to try their luck, and his firstborn son was more than happy to leave the canned food to his shrine in thanks for killing his father for him.

He doesn't have to tell that second part of the story however.

>>46134779
3 normal bulls, but one big dick ogre probobly makes for a better story.

>>46134619
I think Snorri should pronounce grudgement on the miners for being so dumb as to carry loaded weapons. That's like waving a gun around with your finger on the trigger.

>>46134779
A small regiment, or as >>46134789 said, the biggest ogre they have. Grail Knights are like demi-gods. They're up there among the best fighters in the whole world.

>>46134779
I would say a dozen?

Lots of shit happens as backatory, he could have repelled a whole small tribe for all I care, it's more about how you write it than what you write that differentiates between a mat sue and an epic character.

>>46134591
Because the new hotness are flails attached to close combat weapons.

Close-ranged weapons hibrids are too mainstream for GW.

>>46128719
This is one of the few pieces that is actually well done.

>>46129477
What you describe sounds like Frostgrave.

>>46134953
Some people say the Grail Knights are demigod level, with special powers like killing unclean creatures with a touch, and the fluff says each is capable of slaying hordes of lesser creatures. Others say they're just slightly buffed up Knights with a weak magical protection. And then there's the arty that puts them right around the level of blood Knights and chaos Knights. Which is closest to the "true" level of Grail knights, and how far above other Knights in the setting are they?

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>>46135166
Like a lot of things, it depends on the writer so it's a mix of all three examples. There was a Grail Knight, Sir Reolus, one of the only good things about the Bretonnian novels, was a bad mother fucker who curb stomped just about everything that got in his way and all the other knights were in total awe of him. Even the asshole protagonist couldn't help but fanboy around him.

He duels a Chaos Lord and nearly beats him, but the gifts the dark gods gave him allowed him to survive the mortal wounds Reolus dealt to him. The Lord was so impressed by his skill and bravery that he honoured their prior agreement and spared the rest of the Bretonnian garrison.

That's not even mentioning the things the Grail Companions did, like Gilles ripping a giant bolt out of his chest, running out of his sick bed and stabbing three wyverns with it.

>>46126379
Psst, check the OP pastebins.

>>46124841
It's pretty good at the start, but it falls off precipitously. The first short story is great, as is the first book, the second short story and novel are alright to good, but I quickly got disappointed when I realised that he wasn't going to keep killing off characters.

The plotting isn't terrible in any of them, but I didn't like that a 'core cast' emerged who were going to survive, when the whole point was everyone was being sent on suicide missions. You could see who was going to make it to the end of the series and who wasn't by the start of the second book. But starting strong and then ending on a bit of a downbeat seems to be a common theme in Long's writing career.

>>46135686
Neat. I didn't realize they were all in there, I thought that was just for things that crop up in the thread every now and then, like house rules and such.

I'm glad you pointed it out, I bought the Doom of Dragonback recently and put it down the second day. I don't know how Gav did it, but during a time when the Karaz Ankor is irreparably shattered he manages to make it as boring as shit.

>mfw /tg/ wouldn't last a week in the old world

>>46136169
If we apply our real life professions to the Old World equivalent, I think I'd do alright. A stevedore in one of the port cities. So unless the city comes under siege, a Skaven stabs me in the back for looking in the wrong crate, or a work related accident, I should be fine.

Well, except for the plague that would no doubt come in first through the docks.

>>46136214
You are lucky, being a natural philosopher either gets you eaten, mutated or executed by witch hunters it seems.

>>46136169
>>46136214
Doing CGI for movies, I'd probably be alright as well, since I'd be the CAD designer upon whom the lives of everyone around me depended.

>>46136169
a programmer...

meh, probably Engineer's guild would find use for me... which isn't too good, that shit explodes all the time

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>>46132920
>>46133009
They don't have to keep the plate armour clean of rust, it's magically created metal that bonds directly to their flesh. The most they'd have to do is hose off the viscera after a battle.

>>46136169
Hey now, my life would actually be a lot better. Dad would force me into medicine to uphold the family tradition, and I wouldn't be unemployed. Doesn't matter that I'm no good at it, I know Latin and the guild will protect me.

I'm thinking about trying out airbrushing what should I look for in an air compressor? The local hardware store has a 3 gallon compressor on sale for $50 but that seems kind of large but then again I have no idea what I'm looking for

BBG is dead right now can I hang out here and talk about how my troll slayer in his last two games injured 3 Chaos Warriors 3 Black orcs and killed a beastman?

how do you guys convince people to play with you
my chaos army has been sitting gathering dust for the last year and a half since sig came out

I've been on a warhammer fantasy binge lately and have gotten as far in as playing the Warhammer online private server for a bit. Looking around at the other games is Mark of Chaos that bad? Or should i just suck it up and hope CA doesnt shit the bed

Is the Warhammer mod for CK2 any good?

I need to play something until Total Warhammer is released and the local shop is pretty dead these days.

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>>46137763
Of course, WFRP is the best.

Unless you're playing 3e in which case you can go fuck right off

>>46137813

Find a local group that embraces WFB. Facebook or Dakka will have club lists.

As a potential Goblin enthusiast;
> Would it be a reasonable request to play unmounted Wyverns as a Rare unit, 150pts bare?
> The Doom Diver uses the model as a template and thus is bigger than 1" diameter. I'm assuming it can therefore hit multiple units per shot and inflict D6 hits on every one of them?
> WFB Goblins are fuck ugly. Any decent 3rd party? I've seen KoW and they're alright, but nothing special.

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>>46124999

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>>46124999

I do love me some vampire counts

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>>46124999

More unit filler

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>>46124999

RIP dwarf

>>46138161
>unit was wiped out by its filler
oh the irony

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>>46124999
>>46138120
>>46138161
>>46138104
Legitimately my worst nightmare. I can read about Skaven mutilating people for experiments without blinking, I recall that White Dwarf 40k story where the Night Lords were opening up people's ribcages and mounting the still-living men to the fronts of their Rhinos with fondness, but the idea of being surrounded and pulled apart by the cold, ceaseless hands of zombies or ghouls scares the bejeezus out of me.

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>>46138326

Well at least they aren't going down without a fight, I mean that empire dude has impaled one of the bastards on his great weapon. Besides they have ws1, will be a while before they actually hit you.

>>46134591
Realistically? The armature of a crossbow has to flex to store energy, and you don't want a pick to flex!

>>46135166
Grail Knights are Arthurian-tier powerful.


Yes, I know that leaves you with the same question, unchanged.

>>46138141
That's no unit filler anon

Does anybody have a picture/figure of an ogre butcher/slaughter master doing something...magic?

I want my SM to launch a spell, but I can't find any inspiration. They always look like chef casually walking

>>46137861
The mod for total war medieval is pretty nice

>>46138568
>hollow pick-blades
>powerful springs in the hollows
>elastic bowstring that is immensily hard to draw, so it doesn't weaken when left idle
>make that double bowstring, like composite bows have
>clockwork block systems both at the bowstrings' ends and between two arm-springs, incroporating flat spring coils, like in watch mechanisms
>powerful clockwork-augmented drawing mechanism to counteract the power of the bowstring and the springs
>additional spring where the butt of the bolt goes to add some push
>most of this stored within hollow blade and hollow handle
>blades and handle are reinforced by special framework that allow them to maintain durability and strength despite being hollow

you don't think like a Dwarf at all. you think like an elf.
and don't get me started on the crossbow pick's melee enhancements...

>>46138730
they don't "launch spells"
they grab some shit, munch it, and magic stuff happens. there's no waving hands around, chanting spells or flashing flashy SFX.

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>>46138730
Considering that all their spells are them shoving food into their mouth and having the effects transfer, stick a nice juicy cut in their mouth and call it a day.

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>>46138786
>>blades and handle are reinforced by special framework that allow them to maintain durability and strength despite being hollow

That's the part where it all crumples, anon. You made a very complex crossbow, and then handwave the fact that even picks made of solid steel and wood break fairly often, because rock is hard. Not to mention what the repeated impacts would do to jar and strip the gears.

>>46138872
dwarfish technology. dwarfish metallurgy. runes. gromril. structural enhancements. proper pressure dispersal makes more good than being made of solid metal, as I understand.

all crossbowy parts are cushioned by weaker springs, microlattice and special clockwork.

also, why the fuck am I writing all of these? it's FANTASY!
DWARF ENGINEERS DID IT!

My longbeard got -1 Agi. Whatever will I do.

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Posting some models to bump the thread.

Also, in a 2000 pt Vampire counts list, how typically would a grave guard death star work.

Like how many graveguard and what upgrades would be on the vampire lord that's with the unit?

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>>46136767
>Ian Miller

how bad would it be if a unit consisted of, well, 50% unit fillers? in small one-base bits?

you see, a unit I converted looks like shit when ranked up. separate models are cool and dynamic, but when ranked up you can't see all the detais and it turns into clusterfuck

they only way to make the unit looks cool is to place models in checkered pattern...

yeah-yeah, shoulda thinked before converting, but what do now?

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>>46139528
Literally every citation I can find for that image says that it's Miller.

>>46140023
Anon I don't think you understand
>thing
coupled with aheago crop is chan speak for
>I really like thing

>>46140022
Make unit fillers that don't take up much of their bases. If it's say chaos warriors one chaos ogre will give you a lot of free space.

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>>46140022
Do something like >>46138326, a multibase where you keep the correct frontage, though having one that you can trim down or shuffle around for reforming is helpful, but doing a just a bunch of bases would look weird. Make it in larger pieces that you can remove as needed.

>>46140054
Ah, I misread your animu as 'this is a thing I do not like or think is wrong'. It's hard to tell when they're orgasming and when they're freaking out.

>>46139041
Eh, I get the other guy's point, it kind of busts my suspension of disbelief too.

Dwarf technology is supposed to be conservatively designed, well made, intensely practical, and reliable, and cramming two functions into one object in a way that reduces the effectiveness of both components just doesn't sound Dwarfy to me.

It sounds more like something a particularly crafty Goblin would try to build.

The operative verb being try.

GUYS I NEED HELP I NEED TO GET MY HANDS ON SOME BRETONNIA MINIS THAT ARE SOLD OUT ON THE GAMES WORKSHOP SITE ANY ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE OUT PLEASE SAVE ME I NEED MY GLORIOUS KNIGHTS

>>46140264
By alternatives i mean other places that sell GW minis not some shit tier fakes but the actual beautiful stuff they have

>>46140115
hm, it might work, though I'm not sure
the unit's small currently, just 10 models...
meh, will have to expand

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>>46140295
Wait, you can't rank up 10 models? How badly did you fuck up, anon?

>>46138730
If you want some flashy stuff, give the butcher a trollhead or something that's missing a beat and have him either throw up magic juice, or come flashing lights from his mouth and eyes.

>>46140359
Badly. Made when I had a tryst with KoW. They were made to fit and look cool as 10 models on 20-man base.

I did make them technically rank-up-able as a precaution, but they still look like shit when ranked up and removing causalties is a pain.

What if I make really awesome fillers? As long as I pour enough resources and effort into each filler, I shouldn't be accused of being cheap, fielding 10 models as 20, right?

>>46140497
what unit is it? I can think of a few solutions but it depends on the unit type. Remember only half the unit needs to be on the correct base size

>>46140584
Eternal Guard. Made to look like a thicket of spears on 20-man base, in which you can see every guardsman's pose and how he's protecting some part of unit's flanks/rear.

When ranked up tight it looks like illogical tangle of weapons & shields, and elves who look in different directions while standing in a single line.

>>46140264
>>46140281
Non-GW FLGS (I can still find mordheim figures at mine, but the selection is narrow and random)

Ebay is always good. Prices might be a little steep though, especially for BNIB

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>>46140728
So then what would the filler be?

You could plunk a wounded Treekin in the middle and have them be protecting that. I'd be hesitant to include anything of significant height like a rock shelf unless at least some of the models are already on a similar setup (it brings to mind the question of why they are not on top, unless you were to add a few more figures there. If you did those ones, you could make them a bit less dynamic and mix them with a few of the more useful current minis to rank up appropriately whenever you want to/are forced by casualties to field a unit of 10).

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For those of you who play MTG.

I had an idea to mold a vampire counts zombie dragon into an undead prossh, skyraider of kherr. I'm also going to include skinks on the base to act as kobolds.

How would I best create the flaming effect prossh has coming off of his back?

>>46140837
you don't understand, the fillers a 1x1 bases, so the models and fillers are in checkered pattern, like chess board. that's the whole point.

>>46142001
So they were all supposed to be just scattered about on a multibase, and the 'flanks/rear' are just the models already made, not a core of other EG?

>>46142047
pretty much

>>46137886
It's quite fun does have some glitches and nit picks overall does manage to capture the feel quite well

What year does Warhammer Fantasy 2nd edition start? I need to know to determine my character's age.

>>46142341
2522-ish. It doesn't have a specific start date, but it happens immediately after the Storm of Chaos.

>>46138104
>>46138120
>>46138161
>>46140115
Great fillers! They do add that extra character that makes a unit go from interesting to amazing.

>>46138141
Awesome but not filler. Would love to see it IRL

>>46139152
Not a VC player, but considering that you need enough for the unit to sustain a tough charge and survive crumpling, I'd say that no less than 40 models.

On the other hand, they really don't seem that great, inferior to TK Tomb Guard. I'd pick something else (unless it's for fluff reasons, then go full steam ahead).

On another note, I really need to grab some hexwraith horses for my TK.

>>46140022
For me, and for many, the rule of cool trumps all. If the filler's is nice enough I won't mind at all.

However, many tournaments, official (not that we care about these any longer) and not put a cap on unit fillers, usually between 25 and 40%.

>>46140827 mordheim? And, say, won't that store happen to be in Europe? UK by any luck?

>>46139152
From what I've seen it's usually a 40 man brick with two handers

>>46142716
>mordheim? And, say, won't that store happen to be in Europe? UK by any luck?
USA, sorry.

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>>46143113
>>46142716


Do you guys reckon a a grave guard bunker led by a killy vampire lord isn't worth the points then? What else could I use as an anvil then?

Only somewhat thread related. I am looking for just 1 plastic GW LoTR/The Hobbit dwarf Grim Hammerer. [email protected]

>>46143242
GG deathstar with blender vamp is basically always worth it, but you want some chaff to tarpit for you.

>>46143359

Does it act as a hammer or an anvil though? I have two terrorgeists as well as crypt ghouls as well you see.

>>46143396
If do correctly, it's a death star. Death Stars are a hammer-anvil combo pack, their main weakness being that they can't be everywhere and have to break for chaff

>>46143396
It's a burning hot anvil. Holding down enemy units while you charge their flanks is great, but they can probably rape several units on their own.

However if you just want an anvil, I'd go for mass zombies or skellies (6+ ward save)

>>46143483

I'm very new to the game and I can't seem to find a resource that explains all these terms.

Correct me if i'm wrong i'm assuming these meaningings.

Hammer = Incredibly hard hitting unit
Anvil = sturdy unit designed to hold an opposing unit in place, usually so the hammer can flank
Chaff = throw away units designed to annoy the enemy and get in the way of their charges/ hold up other units for a turn


Any corrections would be great. And teaching me any common terms i'm missing would be awesome too.

>>46143671
You're not wrong.

Generally speaking a death star is an anvil that actually has serious killing power. Very powerful units, typically the center of your army that you can simply charge into an enemy and get results with, although they tend to come at considerable cost.

>>46143671
You've pretty much got it. Hammers don't need to Flank, though it can help.

Death Star and Tar Pit are the terms that come up that you haven't listed.

Tar Pit units are somewhere between Chaff and an anvil. They're usually very large and expecting to take a lot of casualties (which makes hammering in on them dicey since the enemy might kill enough out of the tar pit to win combat overall and send the hammer packing). They're also very cheap, like chaff. Their goal is basically multi-turn chaff: something gets stuck in the Tar Pit, and it's out of the REAL fighting for long enough to maneuver around it either evacuating the area or setting up to have it in a trap.

Death Star units are both a unit and a strategy. They're generally large and include one or more characters with significant point investment, and are highly capable at both defense and offense. The goal of a Death Star unit is in a few parts, more or less depending on how you count. For one, the Death Star functions as an anvil, letting more maneuverable but less durable hammers (Such as monsters) charge in on the flank of even a normally very scary enemy unit. The Death Star also functions as a hammer: at least with its characters, it can win combat through a combination of numbers and kills against most non-deathstars. Third, and a concequence of the first, Death Star units deny points to your enemy: they're almost impossible to kill off, and with 8th edition scoring that means they don't surrender VP to the enemy, and a lot of Death Stars can go over a thousand points. Sometimes it's even better to feed it chaff and try to kill the rest of the army around it, since except in Death Star v. Death Star combat it'll take a lot of luck to remove it from the board. If you ram the photon torpedo up the thermal exhaust port, though, you're probably won the battle. Some classic Death Stars are High Elf White Lions, Vampire counts Grave Guard, and Ogre Kingdoms Ironguts

>>46143671
>>46143944
I reckon it's worth mentioning that death stars are also considered somewhat of a bad taste.

>>46140135
Sweatdrops and melty lips are usually good indicators for that

>>46143832
>>46143944
>>46144043

Would it be fair to say a typical 2000pts list would include

>1 hammer
>1 anvil
>1-2 tar pits
>chaff

>>46144043
Well it's a sliding scale. Blood knights with multiple high tier lords, yes. That's a bit cheesy. Grave Guard horde rolling with one lord, not so cheesy.

Been a few threads, but on the WHFRPG 2E Note:

>Skills Available to Ancient Nehekharans

The same overall list. The finer points of various entries (Common Knowledge, Secret Signs, etcetera) change, but none of the Skills require removal. Specifically, Skills requiring fine-tweaking are:
>Academic Knowledge, Common Knowledge, Performer, Secret Language, Secret Signs, Speak Arcane Language, Speak Language, Trade

It's tempting to argue that the skill Swimming should be a default to Nehekharans, but while there are parallels between them and Ancient Egypt there are some obvious differences too (such as the fact that Egypt had no city-states sandwiched firmly between a mountain range, tropical jungle, and temperate plains on three of its sides.

>Talents Available to Ancient Nehekharans

Similar to Skills, most talents may be retained with an even smaller minority needing tweaks. One, however, must go. Namely: Master Gunner. Otherwise the Talents to be adjusted are:

>Arcane Lore, Specialist Weapon Groups

>>46144085
Depends. There are also support units, like gun lines or arty. A dwarf gun line list will be mostly support and anvil/tarpits for example.

>>46144173

Ahh I see.
Well I only run vampire counts if that simplifies things a bit. Trying to come up with a passable 2000 pt list. Not looking to be super competitive but a list that can hold its own and has something for almost everything.

>>46125235
The banner though???

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>>46144268
Well you certainly want redundancy. If your one unit of black knights you had as your hammer get's blow out by a nasty magic phase, and you're left without something to flank that nasty unit you have tied down by your skellies then...darn. You need to have a couple units working each shift so that a lucky cannon ball or spell doesn't totally break your army.

>>46144043
>I reckon it's worth mentioning that death stars are also considered somewhat of a bad taste.

In 8th, not really, you can have really easy answers for death stars. Magic/tarpit owns them

>>46144581
Also cannons for character sniping

>>46144085
2k lists have a lot of variance, even (perhaps especially) without going into the Cheese. A Skaven Castle list (Screaming Bell centered army) has probably four tar pits, 2-3 hammers depending on how you count the bell unit (2 Doomwheels plus the bell), and some artillery. A different Skaven list might roll with 3 solid hammers in the form of Stormvermin (Arguable death star), an Abomination, and a Doomwheel, a nice clanrat anvil, a couple of slave tarpits, and a nice sprinkling of chaff (small slave units, min giant rats aka "Rat Darts", etc) charitably called "Redirectors". A Bret list on the other hand might roll with 2 hammers (lances of knights), 1 anvil/tar pit (M@A brick, which one depends on whether or not it's been given the Blessing), and a smattering of war machines, light shooting units (Arguably Chaff), and dedicated specialists (Pegasus Knights, which serve to hunt war machines and small bunkers). Empire meanwhile brings a large state troops anvil, some smaller detachments of chaff, and knight/demigryff/steam tank hammers. OK probably runs no chaff, and all their "anvils" could count as hammers/death stars because Ogres are elite as hell so having enough of them to have a rank bonus means they're pretty killy.

A general rule of thumb I learned is that you want to have at least one hammer per thousand points of army, as you won't get much done on the offense otherwise. Beyond that, just make sure everybody has a role, and resist the urge to "Gold plate" your units with upgrades that don't actually help them. Only Death Stars -- and the really hardcore ones at that -- can really use EVERY upgrade, and that's only because "costs a lot of points" is turned to a benefit for "Denies more points when not killed".

>>46144268
Vampires don't need the traditional hammer and anvil tactic. With their tarpits doing their role with taking wounds and re-summoning, they aren't really geared towards minimizing CR. If you run elites into the side of a combat with zombies, the enemy will just attack the zombies and home to get more wounds than your elites can deal. If they do so, the zombies combat weakness will splash wounds onto your elites through crumbling rules. This isn't to say that the tactic doesn't work with vampires, but that they aren't really geared towards it due to their rules with CR and the nature of the core troops available. Your best way to pull it off would be using Mega Ghouls and Blood Knights if you are just looking at the crunch. The great thing about vamps is that you can still win with a suboptimal list, so it is a decent army for playing what looks good to you.

My advice to you is to start with the characters and build your strategy from there, because they are your anchors and heavily influence your playstyle.

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>>46144380
What about it senpai

>>46144268
Vampires have some of the best tarpits in the game because Skeletons and Zombies (especially zombies) just keep coming back. They can also just straight up summon chaff onto the board, and you can do some fun things with formation too! Making a 1 deep wall (or 1-wide conga line) of zombies with a spell can be a pretty cool trick. Of course, the trash your hammers worse than other tar pits because Unstable.

To be effective VC wants good hammers like knights or monsters, fast attack like hexwraiths, or killy anvils/deathstars like grave guard to do their dirty work, and the peons just keep your opponent from functioning as they never die for good. As such your 2k list might look like

2-3 hammers or anvils that can do offense work
2-3 tarpits
forget the chaff, just raise dead for your chaff needs.
A smattering of "support" units like Hexwraiths or other offensive troops that lack good melee hitting power
Maybe a small bunker for a wizard that doesn't want to see the front lines. Just enough for Look Out Sir versus cannons.

>>46145119
>>46145119
>>46144722
>>46144718

Thanks I'm going to make a list now.

Is there an online list builder I can use?

>>46145238
I personally like battlescribe

It's not online, but it's free

>>46125235

This looks fucking good

>>46144718
>OK probably runs no chaff
Sabertusks are about as chaff as it gets.

>>46145624
And they're pretty good as chaff goes - being single model units gives them lot of maneuverability.

Does literally everyone make Thunderers instead of Quarrellers?

I cannot find anyone selling Quarrellers second hand on ebay, nor do any recasters make those models...

>>46144726
Are the minis fully built resin or glue together?

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I'm an Oldhammerer (3rd edition is rad) and am putting together some skirmish warbands for a lot of different groups in the Warhammer world. Sorta like a Mordheim-lite based on 3e rules.

It's really shaping up

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>>46129748
You literally described Warhammer's Regiments of Renown in a Dogs of War army.

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>>46129748
So like Wrath of Kings?

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>>46147129
I know, that's a lot of the inspiration, but the idea is to make it so rather than having a few pre set "special" regiments you have the ability to make your clanrats "Skitch's Searats" or the "The pitgaurd of under-altdorf" and have that reflected mechanically.

>>46147182
No idea, haven't looked at that game at all since I was pretty turned off by the minis. I'll definitely read the rules and see if it's got interesting ideas.

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>>46145119
>>46145267
>>46144722
>>46144718


Okay I made my first list. I welcome any advice you guys can give me on this, also this is my first EVER list for fantasy so be on the look out for glaring errors.

Total pts: 1997

Lords: 220 pts
Master necro: 220 pts
>Level 4 wizard (vamp), MOD

heroes: 474 pts
Vampire: 219 pts
>Heavy armour, lvl 2 wiz (vamp), Sword of might, enchanted shield, RF

Wight king: 110 pts
>Steed, barding lance

Necromancer: 145pts
>Dispel scroll, lvl 2 vamp wiz, master of dead

Core: 510 Pts
Ghouls x32 : 330 pts
>champion
vampire goes with these guys

Zombies x60: 180 pts
>1 group of 40, 1 group of 20
The two necromancers go in one of these each

Special: Special 568 pts
Black knights x5: 210 pts
>Barding, lances, musician, banner of barrows, champion
Wight king goes with these guys

corpse cart: 120 pts
>Lodestone

Crypt horrors x6: 238 pts
>Champion

Rare: 225 pts
Terrorghiest

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>>46136169
I could make at LEAST a 5 days. More if I get to a city. Thank the gods for my eclectic skills and background.

Is it assumed I can have my real world harness, weapons and musket?

>>46147504

Yes, you also get your fedora

I remember when that little skirmish book came out for Warhammer and was amazing. After that I always thought that Warhammer at that scale was better as a smaller game. That, and those Chaos warband rules. The one with few miniatures. That was insanely fun. Same with Kill Team for 40k honestly.

Warmaster was the only good way to play Warhammer anyway, honestly. Gave a nice feel to it with way larger armies doing things instead of a unit being like 25 people, maybe. It's too bad Warhammer will never have Warmaster at its front because I think that fits the scale of the battles you read about more.

Something like Inquisitor for Warhammer would've been neat too, I think. I liked Inquisitor a lot when I played it. One time I was kind of in a hurry and I was playing the Space Marine, so I tried to jump from one building to another and fell a million storeys or something like that. Laughs were had.

But yeah, I like the idea of small scale actions unless you can have something like Warmaster.

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>>46147521

>>46147521
>hating on Gropey

My money would be on him, honestly.

Honestly warhammer is at its best at about 1000-1500 points for good sized games. But it also is an excellent skirmish level game.

>>46147684
>1000-1500
you mean 2k

That's when you get access to lords and every army has enough points to stretch their legs a little without going overboard. Lower points can work, but the disparity between books is a whole lot larger.

>>46147361
32 is an odd number for a unit. I'm also not sure If I would have your biggest target getting stuck into melee with a huge zombie bunker though, as it seems like a waste. I would maybe consider mounting the little necro in the corpse cart, and put your lord in a skelly or grave guard bunker instead. Ghouls are certainly a good unit to have your vampire roll with, and the black knights will definitely do some work, although I'm not totally convinced that the points on the white king might not be better spent elsewhere. You need extra zombie models to summon anyway. Also you're kinda missing much in the way of chaff, with 1 anvil, 2 tar pits, 3 hammers, and a support unit. Some dire hounds or bats might be good for that.

May want to flip through the 1d4chan vampire tactica.

>>46147684
Ew, fantasy excels at 3k and above.

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>>46147774
This is true, 8th really is designed around the idea of 2000 points games. 1500 isn't too bad, but 1000 suffers serious balance problems.

>>46147774
Ah sorry I play 3e, so it's a bit different for me. 2k is still a nice level...you might see some level 20 or 25 heroes then. Like I'd use the 500 point jump to kit my heroes out better, and maybe put one on a warbeast like a griffon or maybe a low level dragon.

>>46147684

Warhammer is at its best in Warmaster.

>>46147822
>8th really is
6th, 7th and 8th, you mean. It's pretty consistent, like 1500 in 40k.

my memory of arhammer 4th and 5th is clouded as hell and I'm not sure I even played real games with them beyond fucking around with friends, though.

>>46147823
>Ah sorry I play 3e,
yeah that'd change things a little

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>>46147823
How is 3rd? I feel like, considering my growing impulse to write my own system for me and my group that patches up our personal grievances, it would benefit me to have a read of every edition, and thus have more raw material.

>>46147821
Locally, popular format was so called 2999+1.
The idea is you build for 3000 but don't apply "Grand Army = double Elites & Rare slots" part.

>>46147361
It looks pretty alright, but I have some concerns.

I wouldn't put the necros in zombies, especially not the big zombies that could get in somebody's way and start taking hits. I'd probably prefer to bunker them in the backfield (say in min skeletons) or put them with more killy unit. You really don't want them to vanish in a puff of combat res, especially not your general.

Speaking of wizards, you have 8 wizard levels in 1 lore. Fantasy doesn't allow you to have 2 copies of the same spell except for signatures in your army. It's not impossible that you'll run well (you only have 5 spell slots that CAN'T be signature, giving you the power to basically guarentee your Master Necro to have the spells he wants, and the vamps signature is good), but you might consider cutting the lesser necro down to L1, just planning to let him spam Invocation. You also only have so many magic dice, countered by the other guy's dispel dice, so that limits how much use you can get out of paying for extra wizard levels, too.

Are you sure about the ghouls? I'm not a VC expert but I don't see them used a lot, especially not as the center of the army, which they kinda look like here.

>>46147878
Like paying 74 points for a Chaos Warrior. Fuckers are worth it though. WS 6, S 4, W 2 and two attacks . Beastmen are also bamfs with W 4, S 4 and 2 wounds. Chaos is def the big man on campus in 3e.

>>46147881
Super fun and, at times, super broken. It really thrives as a skirmish level game, and a scenario game. It can do pitched battles with no problem, but it really helps to have a GM or just make sure everyone is on the same page. The rules are consistent, despite common belief, just not explained super well all the time.

But it is probably, to me, the most fun system is you want to fight a good battle. So many different tactics, formations, and troop design to employ. The army book is not required at all, and you can build full armies right out of the main rule book. I actually don't use the lists published in Armies fully, mostly just as guide lines, and use the greater point values from the main book.

>>46147802
So you think if I axe the wight king, put the reg necromancer into the corpse cart and add in 20 skeletons to house the master necromancer, the list would be improved?
I was kind of hoping the necromancers would summon chaff as needed for me.

Also you listed I had 3 hammers, I thought I only had two, which means I'm incorrectly counting either the crypt ghouls or the ghouls with vampire as an anvil.

>>46147928
That's probobly more lore accurate anyhow. Chaos warriors suffer from space marine syndrome where in the books one chaos warrior is cause for everyone to shit their pants while in table top they're just pretty good fighters in pretty good armor.

>>46147821
People like you killed the game.

>>46148011
Level 25 vampire heroes are also pretty much the most powerful thing in the aetting. Seriously fucking beast stat line. But holy damn are they expensive, and pay 5 times the cost for basic equipment.

>>46135166
In terms of the three you mentioned;
Blood Dragons are at the top.

Grail Knights are about middle tier. Not quite Immortals, but they could probably kill one on a good day. 'Named Grail Knights' like the Green Knight or Reolus are about on par with the immotals though.

Chaos Knights are at the bottom but are the strongest among the "regular" knights.

>cont;
Cold One Knights (DE and Lizards) would be just under Chaos Knights.
Boar Riders are about on par with Cold Ones.

DemiGryphs maybe are above Chaos Knights but I never saw them in play so I can't say. In terms of fluff they're probably just above or on par with their Chaotic Brethren.

Order knights/Knights of the Realm are probably on par with Silver helms and such.

Dark riders/wolf riders are at the bottom in terms of power tiers, but they're also the fastest. Could probably put spider riders slightly above them, but I think they're all broken siege rules don't exist anymore.

>>46147900

See

>>46147994

If I drop the necro down 1 level that frees up more points for some more skeletons to house the master necro. And the regular necro can go in a corpse cart.

You think those changes improve things a decent bit?

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>>46147994
I think I miscounted the horrors as a hammer. I'm not a vampire player, I only know what I see from playing against them from time to time. But yes I would definitely take the necros out of the zombies, zombies are meant to fight and die, and if they do that while your generals with them, it's your entire force that will be doing the dying.

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>>46148079
Yea, plus you get to have some skeletons which are a legitimately great kit

How would you depict an empire or high elf raid on a chaos maurader settlement in a way that makes you feel bad for the chaos worshipers?

>>46148017
People like me are the ones who kept it going for as long as it did.

>>46147894
I might have to try that, we play 4k games in my area and it's nice not having to worry about losing to a single magic phase.

>>46149647
Oh, and to add to this, also make the elves/imperials terrifying in the same way the chaos raiders are written when they are the protagonists. Trying to think of ways to make the chaos worshipers humanized, but it's hard when they're a bunch of rapist murders who worship evil gods

>>46149647

Most of the men are off raiding.

>>46149647
>>46149702
Kurgan or Norse?

A lot of Norscans aren't even chaos worshippers, and the ones that do can be subtle about it. Maybe they just worship Tchyr, king of the changing seasons and sometimes sacrifice a chicken or two at the solstice.

The Kurgan and Hung are more obvious, but even they are still human. They have spouses and children and animals. They eat and sing and laugh, same as anyone else.

>>46149702

I think you're also trying to equate their lifestyle to evil. To them, the Chaos gods are all they know. That is all the "good" thing know and I'm sure they're just regular people that worship the gods and kill others. Not even all of them, probably. You think every Scandi was a viking? Most were farmers, I imagine it's the same for them.

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>>46149647
>be me, norscan boy, 15
>carrying firewood
>hear thunder
>look up, no clouds
>look around, people are running
>what in the hells is going on
>drop my firewood, run back to longhouse, dad is gone south to trade with another tribe, grab my axe and tell my sister and mother to stay inside
>thunder is getting more and more frequent no idea where it's coming from
>step out my longhouse, suddenly giant fucking ball of iron flies from the tree line and caves in the chief's roof
>pray to the Raven king that the thunder doesn't trike my house
>look around, see lines of men marching down to the village wearing outlandish clothing, carrying arms.
>start to run out to go join the chief rallying the village to fight in the town center, suddenly hear the clap of thunder once again from the tree line.
>20 of the men in the square getting ready to fight drop dead
>rush behind a building so whatever it is that wields such power can't see me, a pair of the men in their strange clothes turn the corner to see me, both wielding large halberds.
>I give a prayer to the great warrior, realizing that I must fight or die.
>I get stabbed in the neck immediately
>fall to the ground
>as I bleed out I get a view of my longhouse
>the men are marching towards it with torches

>>46148077
If we're talking about just the Riders themselves and their arms, armor and skills, Id say your list looks pretty good
Blood Knights undisputed best, it even says so in their rule book
Grail Knights Second best. I want to say Grail knights are just a bit more common than Blood Knights, and more frequently replaced
Chaos knights last in terms of the elite 3, but their mounts are larger and tougher than the others, which makes them scarier in units. Also, far more common than the other 2 it seems.

After this, id say Dragon Princes, Wilder riders and dark elf cold one Riders, followed by Silver helms, Questing knights, Reiksguard, Inner circle knights and Demigryph knights, and lizardmen cold one riders. Mournfang cavalry and Juggernauts are terrifying more because of their size than skill, but a unit of these will charge through just about anything and are really hard to bring down.
Knights of the realm with blessing are the best of the normal knights, followed by empire knights and boar riders. Knights errant, pistoliers and Goblin riders bottom tier cavalry.

>>46147669
Nah he's a fat piece of gypsy shit. I would heem him tbqh fampai.

Also don't be a faggot and fanboy namefags.

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Wasn't there a Grail Knight who did all his Questing and then met the Lady in the Lake and realized that she was an elf and then became Evil?

Also what does the Lake Lady do to male Bretonians who show an affinity for magic? All it mentions in the fluff is that they are never seen again? SS?

>>46150521
Confirmed for shit taste. You would be a better person if you went on an adventure with clown bro.

>>46150754
Yes, that was the baron of Mousillion. He decided that rather than being elf cucks brettonia should become an undead paradise. He's the justification for bret themed VC armies.

Also yes, she has a /SS/ dungeon

>>46149647

Chaos worshipers typically don't see the,selves as evil, especially not the marauder tribes. They raid and pillage and fight the southern nations out of necessity and because the dark gods demand it. Remember, the greatest glory in life for them is to be noticed by their gods. Think about all the hyper-religious people in real life. Now imagine the chaos worshipers being like that, except they have actual proof and signs that their gods are real. They have all the conviction and validation they need to do the things that they do because their gods are okay with it. people in real life use made up gods to justify their actions, the chaos worshipers have real gods telling them to do all these things in worship. Apart from all this they are just people. They are a hard people, yes, but they still have friends and loved ones, they still drink and play games and make merry, they sing and tell stories and brag about their conquests. They have dreams and ambitions. they have people and pets they care about. They take pride in their villages, their shrines to the gods and their blessings. The sorcerers and witches are respected elders and priests who are direct conduits to the gods and the keepers of knowledge. Chaos worshipers may have a different set of morals, but they are still a people with a culture, and they will still suffer in a raid against a force we see as good.

>>46149702
seeing your comrades get gunned down like vermin before they can even get in range for a proper fight. Seeing your respected elders and holymen being dragged to the purging fires by lowborn scum. Seeing the Warrior priests of Weakling southern gods defile your sacred temples. Seeing Southern men, who your whole life you knew to be weaklings who hid behind fortifications, march boldly on your lands and slaughter your women and children, friends and loved ones. All of these things would be terrifying, no matter who does it and who is the victim

>>46150844
Ah thank you friend

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Anyone know any good mordheim terrain guides?

>>46150754
Technically we don't know what he found out. This was way before End Times came out, so whatever 'truth' he found is basically up for the GM to decide. He could have come to a similar realization as Archaon did when he was just a normal man, that all gods are Chaos Gods.

The reason I use when I GM is that the lack of anything happening was he final test. The Bretonnian book says that some men can spend their entire lives chasing the Grail only to never find it but keep going anyway. It was his arrogance that wouldn't allow him to see that maybe he, despite his prowess and bravery, would not be chosen while others had. Humility was required and he failed, getting incredibly bitter instead of continuing the journey. But that's just my theory.

>>46147878
>6th, 7th and 8th, you mean. It's pretty consistent, like 1500 in 40k.

I thought the standard lately have been 1850 for WH40K and 2400 for Fantasy.

1500/2000 is kind of old isn't it?

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>>46152286
>2400

I've never seen this

1850 I have seen. 40k is admittedly more variable with 1500, 1850, and 2000 all being played

Are there any elite infantry units for the empire besides greatswords? I find it strange that they take the best of their soldiers and veterans and make them use these giant and very situational swords, wouldn't giving them halberds or regular swords make more sense?

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>>46152639
There are a lot of elite units, but not so much as a choice from the army book but a regiment from a certain town or province. Greatswords are just the best of the best and you don't take every veteran and stick them in the count's bodyguard. Even if a guy is very skilled it takes a great act of courage to be promoted. Their greatswords are a sign of their office, and I'm sure they're trained in all manner of weapons. Their two handed blades can be used almost like spears if the need arises seeing as how they're basically zweihanders.

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>>46152639
The greatswords are strange as they are based on historical inspiration, but used for a far different role than the inspiration.

Greatswords are essentially bihander wielding doppelsoldner but in fantasy land. Rather than fighting in combined arms pike units, designed to face identical forces, they are a single unit in the asymmetrical world of orcs and deamons and rat men. How effective it would actually be is questionable, as historically they are pretty much exclusively good for knocking pikes aside and then choppy chopping pike lines. To be fair though a big ass sword is almost certainly a much better anti ogre/troll/big shit weapon than almost anything else that isn't a firearm or artillery.

>>46152286
I've seen 2250 and 2500 for fantasy tournaments.

>>46152639
They don't take all of their best veterans, just some.
Also you're doing that historical fags thing and trying to apply real world limitations to fantasy. Great swords like jrpg swords are entirely necessary when the enemies you're facing have much longer reach like orcs, beastmen, ogres and saurus or are incredibly hard to kill loke dorfs, giants, dragons and vampires.

Ditto for the phalanx being useless, because bombardment magic and warmachines have been around forever.

>>46152894
well pikes could still be useful, they existed in a time where artillery was still around, and really at the end of the day from a strategic perspective magic just amounts to artillery, albeit more powerful and mobile artillery.

>>46153045
>magic just amounts to artillery
Not really. Only a few spells are long distance destructive. The majority of magic acts as buff/debuff or effects things like the terrain than directly striking the enemy.

>>46153108
from a tactical view point though that isn't a major factor in deciding what equipment is viable.

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>>46150199
Eat shit Norscan scum.

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So after nearly 7 months of not having a WFRP group, I'm going to try playing online. It hasn't worked out in the past but I'm bored as shit so I may as well give it a go.

One of my friends wants to play a Dark Elf, so I figure I'd write a campaign with a more evil bend to it. My first idea was to have the party hired by a Chaos cult to scour the world for dark artifacts and certain people to sacrifice to bring a Shaggoth out of its long slumber. But then I thought that might be too much of a burden to ask of 1st career characters. I like to play really long campaigns where it doesn't necessarily follow a strict and linear plot, where you can travel at your pleasure and even ignore the 'main quest' if you want, getting into different adventures along the way. Does the thread have any suggestions?

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>>46153309
I usally like to just make a sandbox starting area and stick them in it, with some event from a potential foe driving them together. Things go more naturally that way. If you're going to do dark elves keep in mind they aren't STRICTLY evil all the time. A dark elf corsair chilling with some morally grey human mercenaries isn't unthinkable.

>>46153489
That's generally how I do it as well, let them dick around until something comes up to grab their attention. One game started with getting a Pulp Fiction style briefcase to Carroburg that turned into a political thriller with time travelling cultists. Another almost ended as soon as it began because they tried killing each other upon sight, the reasoning being "I don't know you".

The reason why I'd go more evil is because the Dark Elf player wants to become one of the Druchii Anointed, so he probably won't rub shoulders with anyone that isn't at least neutral or willing to do a lot of evil things for gold.

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>>46153558
So he wants to play a slannesh cultist? Well that makes things terribly easy, just do a full chaos campaign.

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Tell me cool shit about chaos dorfs, and post pics

Creative Assembly has said that every major faction will get in - do chaos dorfs count? Would there be enough material to make a proper faction for them?

I'm too poorfag to play tabletop, and if I don't get to see my glorious Chaos Dorfs as a full faction in TWWH, I'm going to riot.

>>46136169

Carpenter by trade, woodsman by hobby. Also training in medieval combat and archery. I'm pretty golden. Some sweet carpentry gig in one of the smaller cities, lead a comfy af life far away from the warzones and horrors.
And if a stray beastherd happens to raid my town, I can fuck off into the woods to hide.

>Tfw you will never have a comfy cottage on the outskirts of an empire town

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>>46153707
>>do chaos dorfs count?
Yes.

There is a massive line of statues lining the road to Zharr Naggrund. The statues? All Chaos Dwarf sorcerers who were overcome by their own dwarfish nature rebelling against their use of magic.

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>>46153707
they look good and I want some, for my chaos army. That's all we know.

>>46153757

Fuck yes please.

The Chaos Warriors get a Hellcannon staffed by Chaos Dwarfs, on release, but I'm not sure what that could mean.

It could be good in that it shows that they've already made some Chaos Dwarf assets, but on the other hand it may mean that they just plan on relegating Chaos Dwarfs to supplemental forces to human shitters.

Post more cool lore about Chaos Dwarfs.

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Is hashut an entirely seperate chaos entity? What is it with skaven and dorfs getting their own chaos god.

>>46153820
Hashut is greater daemon. Dorfs found him and made a deal. He's a rogue/indpendent greater daemon now, probably a Bloodthirster who does magic.
Horned Rat is a proper god as he's born from the belief of billions of Skaven. He has his own greater daemons and even one daemon prince.

>>46153791
Hashut is a Bloodthirster who dabbled in magic and was hunted by Khorne's other daemons until he managed to find a place to hide, which would later become the base of the Tower of Zharr. He would later strike a bargain with an unknown dwarf king who lead his people east to find minerals and precious stones. When the mutations caused by the blanketing of magic through out the world threatened to overwhelm his people, he pledged him and his subjects to the glory of Hashut if he would save them. And save them he did, limiting mutations but damning them to servitude. They would see their cousins of the World's Edge Mountains as traitors, abandoning them to their fate while they hid in their holds. Now they are freed from tradition, practise magic and enslave greenskins by the thousands, and cavort with the slaves of Chaos.

>>46153757
I would actually fucking love to see some more shit from the other side of those mountains. A sphere of interaction different from the Empire centered one.

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Got bored and made a forester/woodward career. Seemed weird that this career was lacking, since plenty of noble lords have forested parcels of property.

http://pastebin.com/2etiBKpH

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>>46144043
I highly dislike the popularity (helped by the rules no doubt) of deathstars in 8e, but I've got to say that there are many ways of dealing with one. Start dropping templates on them, whether magic or war machines, and once you've whittled them down to half their original strength they aren't that scary (and you just need one good turn of shooting/magic for this).

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>>46153883
>>A new quest has appeared
>>Hashut be praised, the High Sorcerers have chosen you to enact their will! Foolish dawi, our traitorous cousins, have dared to cross into our lands. Not only do they dare sully our ashen land with their foul feet, they mine our resources! Take an army of faithful dawi'zharr and greenskin slaves to demolish these trespassers. Break their rhunes, shatter their standards and shave their beards so we may send them to Karaz-a-Karak!

>>46153851
Didn't the horned rat create the skaven though?

Based on the creation story of the stranger coming and building the great horned bell, I'd think so.

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>>46153883
the dark lands are actually interesting aren't they? And they don't get half as much love as they ought.

The chaos dwarves to the north, the orges to the east skaven necromancers and orcs all about, competing.

>>46153958
hm, maybe. probably started as a splinter of Nurgle and used the chance to create himself a host of minions. anyhow, the horned rat has billions of worshippers and is a proper god in his own right. not one of the Four, but still a match to any human/elf/dwarf god.

>>46153958
I doubt it. The story tells of a stranger, but as it's a story you can't be sure what exactly is truth or embellishment. With the way deities in Warhammer work, it would be impossible for the Horned Rat to create his children as his children are responsible for him becoming an entity in the first place.

>>46153989
I ran a campaign in the Darklands, it was a lot of fun. For some reason, I suppose since everyone was an evil prick, the party worked really well together. They met roving Kurgan tribes, double backstabbing hobgoblins and put down Black Orc rebellions.

>>46153879
Is this actually canon?

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My first-ever Skaven have finally arrived, but I cannot for the life of me decide what colours to paint their equipment. Does anyone know of any links to an online army painter or something? I've looked around myself but my Google-fu is weak and I haven't been able to find any with Skaven in.

>>46154048
As far as GW is concerned; everything is canon, not everything is true. Which is a bullshit non-answer, but whatever. It hasn't been contradicted, seeing as how little Chaos Dwarf fluff there is, so it's still canon to me.

>>46154063
get yourself a pdf of "uniforms and heraldry of the skaven" should be in the op

>>46146901

Weapons are separate. Most have separate heads as well. The details on their miniatures puts FW to shame. The casting is also flawless for mine.

>>46153820
I would say Hashut is a Minor chaos god, like the horned rat but probably weaker due to less followers/smaller sphere of influence. There are countless gods in the warp, and even greater daemons are often worshiped as gods themselves. Khorne, slaanesh, nurgle and tzeentch are just the most powerful and influential.

>>46149701
>People like me are the ones who kept it going for as long as we did.

Nah, you established a metagame where you had to build up 3000pt armies before you could even get any games in, and that's a $600 investment at least, not counting rules. The vast majority of potential players is gonna look at that and play something else.

Just face it anon, what you should've done is encouraged 1000-1500 play, or adapt the old skirmish/warbands rules to get people started before moving onto larger forces.

You killed the game.

>>46154444
GW killed the game. It was their decision to tailor the rules to favour massive armies that deterred new players while also increasing the price of models while including less in almost every box.

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>>46154444
GW abandoned the game anon. Yes it is only dead as your local scene. The players only play what is fun, and GW designs what is fun and what was shit. To blame this on players is the actions of a bitter and spiteful beardlet or honorary redshirt who knows the filth that is age for what it is but in his cognitive dissonance and delirium seeks to blame the player for the failures of GW.

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>>46154134
Would you mind giving a review and pictures anon? I'd much appreciate it.

>>46154444
>Just face it anon, what you should've done is encouraged 1000-1500 play,
Even 1k-1.5k armies was huge for newcomers because the whole 8th ed. rules forced people to play large units.
>or adapt the old skirmish/warbands rules to get people started before moving onto larger forces.
Yeah especially when old games was banned in GW stores.

>>46152327
2400 is a tournament standard.

>>46154444
The rules favor 3k games m8, that's not my fault.
Had there never been an avenue to play warhammer at its best gw would have killed it off years ago.

>>46154500
Its ridiculous to pretend that people refusing to play smaller games was not a factor.

>Who and how killed Warhammer?
>Ongoing discussion, part 8465
>no end in sight

seriously, ain't you bored of this topic by now? it got old about the second day after death of WHFB. and yet people keep mulling it over and over, thread after thread.

>>46155118
There is nothing more to discuss in WHFB thread.

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>>46155084
It's ridiculous to pretend 8th wasn't terrible for smaller games and it's fucking insane to think most players wouldn't say "oh yea sure" if someone came up and said "oh hey man, I just got into the game and only have 1000 points of ogres, can we play 1000 points?" Because that did happen.

No one was "refusing" to play smaller games unless you have a real trash tier group, it was just people on the internet saying "yea people tend to play 2000 points because it's best" followed by new players deciding not to get into the game at all when they saw the price of a 2000 point army.

GW cucks go and stay go

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>>46155118
There are always the old bitter faggots who want to blame the people who like things they don't like for "killing" the game

>>46154048
No,it's not.

He pulled it out of his ass.

>>46154009
>I doubt it. The story tells of a stranger, but as it's a story you can't be sure what exactly is truth or embellishment. With the way deities in Warhammer work, it would be impossible for the Horned Rat to create his children as his children are responsible for him becoming an entity in the first place.

The Chaos Gods are said to have been created by humanity and yet they are far older than mankind. Time in the Warp is meaningless.

them new MoM halberders - are their heads separate from bodies, or single bit?
also, from what I see, they are fairly monopose, aye?

>>46155139
>GW cuck

Are you fucking retarded?

And yes, it happened all the god damn time. Nobody was forcing people like that to play 8th or to never play skirmish games.

>>46155190
Even if some people refused to play small games, GW fucked the game over by making it so much harder to get into the hobby. It's easy to drop a hundred dollars getting a single regiment painted up now days. Not to mention that most boxes contain less models for a higher price. So for a fourteen year old who thinks that the game looks cool, he can't get into it because it's way too expensive for him.

what army is GW gonna violate next? I think I remember rumours of orruks in March, but there's been talk of the Grand Alliance Order recently.

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>>46155190
Then you played with a bunch of cunts. I've never seen anyone flat out refuse a game unless they knew the player was a shithead, or they didn't have the time.

And yes letting gw fuck your fun while you watch and blame it on the players makes you a cuck.

>>46155178
They are certainly mono pose, but with formation fighters like halberds that's much more permissible. As for pieces I couldn't tell you, but they look to be a single chunck

>>46155214
I know they did and I never said otherwise.

The point is that people who thought huge battles were a good thing did not help. You see people defending 8th edition all the time.

>>46155234
The halberds actually look like they are separate. You can see the gap in a few of them.

>>46155234
shame. with a headswap they'd make perfect halberd grave guard

>>46155251
Well cutting a head off is not a terribly difficult task.

>>46155234
>And yes letting gw fuck your fun while you watch and blame it on the players makes you a cuck.

So you are just being stupid, got it.

Even if GW made the changes that killed the game the morons who supported them and thought it was fantastic are part of the problem too. You need to stop pretending I am defending GW, I am just refusing to give GW fanboys a free pass.

>>46155234
From what I've learned regarding that anon so far it seems like people were just refusing to play with him, mostly due to his cuntishness.

See this shit >>46155240
>how dare you play the game at its best

>>46155266
if heads were joined to body at the neck, yes

but they have beards and chins and stuff. wouldn't look good.

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>>46155282
>game is fun
>game is changed slightly so the fun is more easily attained in a certain way
>get mad at the players who have started playing in that certain way after the changes are made for not purposefully playing a less fun version of the game because you personally did not like it

Wow

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>>46155289
You're probably right

I'm just hyped to buy this guy when he comes out along with plenty of halberds and some stuff for my chaos. Mom is pretty based I got to say.

What is it with Spaniards? They got AoW, Gamezone and Mom.

>>46138441
nice church

>>46155379
>What is it with Spaniards? They got AoW, Gamezone and Mom.
they are just doing that thing Spaniards do.
trying to beat Britain.

and this time I wish Spanish good luck

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>>46155456
Isn't that france. And also portugal. And Russia and Germany

Isn't that every single former european super power towards every single other one.

They are doing a nice job of it though.

>>46155379
>AoW
By the way any news about their new troops releases, elves, undeads or humans?

>>46155468
Spain.

>>46155468
I was thinking of Great Armada and general bickering between Brits and Spane in Caribbean.

France was normally trying not to get beaten, Protugal didn't have much to do with Britain and Russian only fought Britain in Crimean war, IIRC.

>>46155482
they sorta slowed down, imho
I believe they are watching GW closely and aiming to reproduce the lines they discontinue. wait for awesome mounted knights, dirty peasants and egyptian skellingtons from them, I'd say.

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>>46155482
Well they still have serveal finished troop kits that are STILL being retooled for injection molding

that being !khorne warriors, harpies, witch elves, and two boxes of dwarves iirc. Nothing to my knowledge about undead or humans. (though they did just come out with a pair of very nice heros, a witch hunter and dark elf corsair

>>46155533
>STILL being retooled
for company that has been around for years, they do strange things. you'd expect they'd have found perfect way to produce their minis and used it for all releases years ago

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>>46155509
they actually came out with two brand new boxes very recently, chaos mauraders and ironbreakers.

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>>46155547
Well they tried this whole "warcast" thing and it didn't shake out. They're now having to tool them for plastic injection steel molds which is a HUGE pain, and is very pricey.

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>>46155509
I'm interested to see an avatars of war horse. And by interested I mean probably just leave cav to gamezone.

>>46155362
The fact 8th shed HUGE numbers of players proves not everyone thought massive battles were fun.

But you are clearly just trolling so what is the point.

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>>46155509
>I believe they are watching GW closely and aiming to reproduce the lines they discontinue. wait for awesome mounted knights, dirty peasants and egyptian skellingtons from them, I'd say.
I don't have enough buckets for how much I'm gonna cum when Felix sculpts Bretonnian Knights.
I have my doubts if that is true though. And AoW is slow/unreliable as fuck.

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>>46155639
>people disagreeing with me is trolling
>It isn't that someone literally said "I like x" and then I decided to tell him he's the cancer that killed the game
>It isn't that I'm just shouting stop liking what I don't like while buying Deathrattler™ Start Collecting boxes

Oh hey anon. I know you. You're the AoSidf anon who kept poping the last threads. Good to know you're still doing good man. How's life as a slav these days?

>>46155217
empire is the last army that is likely going to be ruined on a great scale, greenskins are largely safe, except for special characters, considering a new wyvern is coming azhag could go the way of the dodo.

>>46155697
>mfw I just realized is probable for GW to rerelease special characters like archaon, azhag and the others for collectors when total war proves to be a success.

two times now I've seen dreams related to WHFB

first dream was about me getting my hands on a collector's edition WAR box, and it having not just Grumlock and Gas-bag, but also one-two custom exclusive bits for conversions for all the armies, and I was gleefully rummaging through them and planning conversions. Since the box was second-hand, I remember I found that few of the bits were missing and I was disappoint.

Second dream was that after my grandpa's death it turned out he was manager of warehouse/cellar in something like a large boarding school or maybe a manor, and for some reason the contents of that cellar were now our property. And there was a big room, with lots of shelves filled with stacks of unboxed sprues of WHFB minis, including some never-released and exclusive ones, as well as some of those exclusive bits from first dream. That was a happy dream.

Just though I'd share this.

>>46155880
You know, I really am glad that GW realised they could trademark/copyright 'Greenskinz' before they got too stuck into calling them Orruks.

>>46155533
These models look like complete shit in person, it's a real shame they didn't put more work into the faces or I would have played a dark elf witch cult.

>>46155639
Everyone who could play them thought they were fun, just as they did in 7th and 8th.

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>>46124787
If it's for the Lady, shouldn't your opponent get to decide if you're first or not?

>>46155697
>if you dislike 8th edition you like AoS..

Are you mentally incapable of grasping the fact people can dislike both? You are no better than the idiots who think any criticism of 9th age is support for AoS.

>>46156063
>Everyone who could play them thought they were fun, just as they did in 7th and 8th.

That is objectively false and you know it is. There is a difference between choosing not to buy a huge army because you want smaller games and saying big battles suck because you do not have a big army.

28mm is just the wrong scale for huge battles, pretending that everyone who thinks that is poor is childish.