The Horus Heresy General.

>>46034941
>*NEW* HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:

Yassss

>Legiones Astartes: Dark Angels

YUSSSSSSSSSS

>No stats for the Lion

WUT

WHAT U DOIN

>>46035066
We've literally known that fact for months. Book 6 having the rules for WS/BA/DA has always been a stop-gap measure to give players a start to their legions until proper books for them can be released.

>>46035066
Where have you been? Literally the oldest news, this was confirmed as fact almost as soon as the book itself was announced.

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>>46035539
truth

Death haunts the darkness!
You will die here alone!

>>46034941
What are mess halls on marine ships called? Something in (faux)Latin?

>>46035066
Russ will get rules and a mini before Lion.

>>46036807
'We strike from the darkness
But we are not of the night
Though born in darkness
We seek only the light.' - Corvus Corax.

>>46036978
We've seen the WIP of his mini.

>>46036968
I imagine it'll be a Refectory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refectory

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>>46034941
Hey guys Google isn't turning up much so I was hoping somebody here could lend me a hand.

Last thread I asked about legions with beautiful, artsy armour that weren't Blood Angels.

Two anons mentioned the "Terran Raven Guard."

Who are these guys and where can I find pictures of them? They sound cool honestly.

Thanks folks.

>>46037116

Carcharodons

>>46036968
>>46037078
'Cafeterium' gets my vote

>>46037078
Oh, thank you, Anon. Would the style matter on who the legion in question is?
>>46037116
Pale Nomads. Tyberos is a member of who they become in the modern 40k.

>>46037160
I would want to believe this but I want use refectory.

Greetings /TG/

I've recently been looking into buying the 40k novels and had some questions for anyone that's familiar with the series from a book standpoint - is there an order to start reading the books in?

I checked the lex-wiki and couldn't find anything about the best order chronologically or fan-based that is the "the correct" way to read the novels, so I wanted to ask all of you if there's a best order to read them in.

Any and all advice and recommendations are welcome. Thank you for any replies.

>>46037243
Here's what you need to do. Don't read the BL novels, get a copy of Paradise Lost but imagine Satan as bald dude in termie armor with a wolf pelt thrown on my.

>>46037175
>Oh, thank you, Anon. Would the style matter on who the legion in question is?
Not a clue if I'm honest, it's just a term I knew (and checked with a quick google to see if I was in the right corner).

But Refectory does have kind of religious undertone in English, so perhaps more likely for more zealous legions than the more down-to-earth ones, but to be honest, it's just a word for a communal eating area.

>>46037243
Are you referring to the Horus Hersey series or just Black Library books in general?

>>46037309
>so perhaps more likely for more zealous legions
Bangles, Fists, Word Bears, and Dangles?

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>>46037116
>>46037153
Terran RG were informally known as the 'Dust Clad.' They were also a bunch of cold-hearted mofos who had no problem exterminating civilian populations to get at a nested enemy site.

After their reunion with their primarch a bunch of them died because Horus chucked them into a killzone over Corax's protests, and when the rest of them didn't cotton on to such ideas as 'stop indiscriminately killing tons of people to get at a target' Corax sent them off to go blow up space.

>>46037378
I imagine so, though given GWs proclivity for using latin at every opportunity they probably all use it.

>>46037441
I figured so. Thanks for the help anyway.

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I'm having a hard time finding black roman numeral transfers for my bangles. I can freehand on my dreads and termies, but shoulders are so hard.

TG rate my White Scars list

Chogoris Brotherhood 1995pts

Praetor
Jetbike, Power Glaive, Iron Halo, Cyber Hawk, Melta bombs

8x Jetbike Squad
2x Plasma Cannons
Sergant w/ Power Glaive & Melta Bombs

3x Outrider Squad
Twin-linked Plasma Guns
Melta Bombs

10x Veterans
2xPower Swords
2x Heavy Flamers
Sergeant w/ Power Glaive & Artificer Armour
Melta Bombs on all

10x Veterans
2xPower Swords
2x Heavy Flamers
Sergeant w/ Power Glaive & Artificer Armour
Melta Bombs on all

1x Tarantula
Hyperios Launcher

Anvillus Drop Pod

Anvillus Drop Pod

Sicaran Venator
Dozer Blade

Sicaran Venator
Dozer Blade


The plan is to rely on the venators to knock out any spartans and then kite any death stars as well as possible. The Veterans are expensive, 400pts including the pods, but should mulch most units pretty well. Anvillus pods provide decent anti-horde if it's necessary. Tarantula is a funny one but is one of the few AA options with interceptor, so if my opponent is running a lightning I can force it to jink from the first turn it comes in. Outriders outflank and either rear armour vehicles or gun down robots or something.

Veterans are for sure the biggest point sink, and will be fragile as fuck, but they also provide a lot of the meat of the list and can deal with almost anything.

>>46037569
Have you found any white roman numeral transfers? Could use some for my EC.

>>46037570
can't you drop something for apothecaries if you are so concerned about Veterans being fragile?

>>46037569
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Astra-Militarum-Bravo-Vehicle-Transfer-Sheet-Black
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Death-Guard-Transfer-Sheet

Both have a fair number of roman numerals on them, though I imagine the Astra Militarum one is the most flexible.

I have a DG one myself (though I play AL), mainly because certain symbols are present in abundance on that sheet that are entirely absent on the AL sheet.

>>46037675
The DG one also has a fair number of white ones. One of the alround good ones in my opinion.

>>46037175
>Dark Angels
castle or monastery hall

>Emperors Children
The Louvre

>Iron Warriors
everything is bare metal

>White Scars
literally a tent, animal skin rugs, open fires and stuff

>Space Wolves
viking mead hall

>Imperial Fists
similar to Iron Warriors except everything is stone, also lots of lego sets lying around to practise building walls with

>Night Lords
meat hooks hanging from the ceiling

>Blood Angels
The Louvre 2: Electric Boogaloo (every picture is of Sanguinius)

>Iron Hands
cog shaped tables, cog shaped chairs, cog shaped plates, utensils are just cogs

>World Eaters
every other table is a pit sunken into the ground

>Ultramarines
literally just a standard mess hall with framed quotes from Guilliman on the walls

>Death Guard
rusty because letting armour fall into disrepair is cool right guys?

>Thousand Sons
pyramid

>Sons of Horus
similar to Ultramarines but instead of obnoxious quotes lining the walls it's obnoxious displays of victory

>Word Bearers
golden church to the Emperor (pre-Monarchia)
black church to chaos (post-Monarchia)

>Salamanders
all basalt and obsidian, lots of fire everywhere, food is cooked over actual lava

>Raven Guard
low lighting, pictures of Spartacus on the walls, more exits then strictly necessary

>Alpha Legion
mess location, theme and allegiance change every day, to find it's location you ask your sergeant who also changes every day

>>46037738

I've never felt like I get much use of out apothecaries, and I'd have to drop one of the flamers.

The Veterans are fragile. they hopefully won't have to weather too much shooting but they're just gonna get worn down more through combat than for instance terminators would.

>>46037441
>>46037078
It's this. Source: Scars, theres a scene in the book where two khans go to drink and discuss the warrior lodges within their legion.

>>46037771
>literally a tent, animal skin rugs, open fires and stuff
>Son, why are there open fires on a ship?
>Dad, it's fine. You don't see me complaining about your halo.
>similar to Iron Warriors except everything is stone, also lots of lego sets lying around to practise building walls with
Made me laugh.

What do you guys think about Skitarii in 30k? OK or not ok?

>>46037771
> to find it's location you ask your sergeant who also changes every day
I kek'ed

>>46038204
I imagine they'll be getting added eventually (or their equivalent at least).
There were some images of conversion kits for Skitarii kits to be used in 30k from the weekender.

>>46038361
Will i need those or would people let me play with the plastic skitarii? Forgeworld kits are so friggin expensive....

>>46038465
The difference won't be too drastic I imagine, so you can probably get away with the plastic models. Not sure what they're going to do with the weapon options though, but if you keep some of the current ones, you're all set for keeping it plastic.

>>46037771
>also lots of lego sets lying around to practise building walls with.
This is also the room where the pain gloves are kept.
Mandatory blindfolds at the door.

What do each of the legiones feel about the mechanicus and how pseudo religious they are.

>>46039008
check the allies chart,it will give you a reasonable idea

>>46038674
I'm sure those are kept in the gym.

>>46039374
>the room where the pain gloves are kept.
That's what I said.

>46037356

Apologies, I had to take care of some IRL business so I was delayed with a reply.

I've been looking at purchasing the horus heresy series, and the imperial guard novels to start reading the 40k books, but I wasn't sure if there was a better chronological order to read them in than that.

Often times novel and book series have a different chronological order to read them in rather than the listed release dates. I wasn't sure if 40k was different in this regard.

I haven't looked at the Black library novels as of yet, but if those are relevant to read then I will add them to my purchase list.

>>46037771
So the Alpha Legion is the ADD legion?

Hey, sorry if this is a dumb question, but I don't have my rulebook handy and I'm on my phone.


But does an infantry unit with infiltrate confer that to their dedicated transport?

>>46040611
Yes.

>>46036996
"I am the bat."
-Konrad Curze

Is the tainted dreadnought worth getting? Its rules just seem like a shitty budget knight that moves 6" :[

>>46041374

"When Terra is ashes, you have my permission to die."
-Mortarion

>>46041476
"Caw"
-Corax

>>46041409
Too expensive to justify and has some serious downsides. Good for fluffy lists though.

>>46041513

"RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
-Angron

>>46041595
"Gotta go fast"
-Jaghatai

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>>46041976
>mfw this meme won't die
Please stop.

>>46034941
What's the most popular space marine legion?

As in which one is played on TT the most?

My money is on EC. Do we have numbers?

>>46042259
Everybody and their twin brother seems to be making Alpha Legion armies.

>>46042259
Iron Hands, Alpha Legion and Night Lords seem to be most popular.

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>>46042318
>Everybody and their twin brother

>>46042259
http://strawpoll.me/7093914
Let's get a roll call.

>>46042347
I am noticing lots of EC armies, maybe it is a handful of frequent posters, but being one of the first legions to be fully complete and having great models would certainly support the idea that EC are the most popular.

>>46042479
Looks surprisingly even so far.

>>46042479
Salamanders doing well weirdly enough.

Fists are taking the lead.

>>46042778
Huh. Wasn't expecting that.

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>>46042810
30k Fists are baller.

>>46042841
Yeah they are. And this is coming from someone who hates 40k fists.

>>46042778
It must be all those daily reminders.

>>46042479
Thousand sons are fucking skyrocketing.

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>>46042854
I theorize it was Dorn keeping them baller. His presence is what made them baller.
>>46042864
No.

>>46042879
I theorise it's because the sheer awesomeness of the Black Templars hasn't left them yet.

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>>46042876
thousand son here

voted also for blood angels because they are cute

>>46042909
It was Dorn and Siggi.
>>46042912
Bangle here. I voted for Dangles, Fists, IWs, Sallies, Hands, and NLs. The Death Guard are now sky rocking.

>>46042479
>Corax sheds a tear and swears to get better.

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>>46042983
His smile and optimism are gone. Are there no Raven Guard fans here? What happened to RG Bro?

>>46043013
>playing badNightLords

>>46042479
Ok not gonna lie. The top favourites are pretty much what I expected.

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>>46043030
They gave us Tyberos, proud owner of the best set of claws the galaxy has even seen to rip and tear.

>>46043097
Space Sharks were confirmed to be loyalist Night Lords years ago anon.

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>>46043118
Filename related. Please don't start this.

>>46043118
Come on man, that's babbies first bait.

>>46042479
Aaaand Sons of Horus take the lead!!!

>>46043118
space sharks are stupid af anyway 2bh

>>46042953
Wow you run seven armies? Or are you just retarded?

>>46042479
Come on EC, glorious comeback from the fabulous perfectionists!

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>>46042479
>no one else likes Space Wolves

>>46042479
>1. Imperial Fists
Fucking dropped.

>>46042479
Imperial Fists fuck yeeeaaah!

>>46042479
SHIT SPACEWOLVES GET IT TOGETHER

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After ceaseless toil for 30,000 years the Knight Errant Generator has been perfected. All of the kinks have been removed. If you feel like rerolling your Knight on the psyker tables because you got Enslaver and Daemonbait with a psychic mastery of 4 and is a consul that no one within the legion knew about please do, or feel like creating a new Knight please go right ahead. So many psychic marines have been created that I think I have created a glitch in the universe that rustled Mortarion's jimies. I'll expect his death threats in the mail now. Thank the God Emperor that this wasn't a civilian generator. Just imagine all of the psykers that were rolled but with civilians.
>>46043848
You can't corner the Dorner, Curzefag.

>>46044008
yiffs getting btfo 2bh

>>46044082
Senpai can corner the Dorner. And did. Canonically.

>>46044141
Hey Konrad was using combo breakers which gave Rowboat and the Lion problems. It seems to me that combo breakers aren't allowed in Primarch fights but Curze doesn't play by the rules now does he?

>>46044141
Because he sneak attacked him. And then got ganked by some bitch assassin. And "hurr he totally let it happen" isn't an excuse. He was killed, on his crapper, in his own damn house, by some bitch, like a bitch. Easily the worst primarch. Worse than Lorgar, worse than Magnus, worse than Leman Russ, worse than the Lion. Canonically.

>>46044259
Show me on the doll where the NL player touched you.

>>46044282
Alpha Legion

>>46044282

What about Chicken dinners?

>>46044282
DAngles

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>>46044082
I rerolled on my own Knight Errant.
>d20: 8: No.
Now he's just a normal Ultramarine with a shield who shield bashes you and shoots you in the face despite having an axe. Now for the updated armor table.
>4
His spare armor is a bunch of junk. Now I'm just trying to figure something out here. This guy is a Veteran, and an Invictarus Suzerain but also a literally who. Did Guilliman just give me the rank and forget about this guy?

>>46042479
>http://strawpoll.me/7093914
>implying alpha legion doesn't just check all

>>46044282
As your senpai I advise you to do the same thing I did.

Porque no los dos?

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>>46045838
The Fists win. The Sons of Dorn are the most popular legions of /tg/.

>>46042479
How the hell does 1ksons even have a fanbase when you can't even take a Librarian as a primary HQ?

>>46039008
Wilful blindness since they totally rely on them
Add that mech act like sys admins and engineers ie keep to themselves and don't interact socially
And finally treaty of Mars

>>46039730
The heresy books do need some structure but also there's the issue that some stories are only audios atm
Guard novels are in any order t.b.h except for the gaunts ghost novels and last chancers
The eisenhorn books are great for showing how sector politics and average imperial worlds work - ie short term profit for long term ecological damage

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R8 my list m8s

IF 1750pts

Alexis Polux[Pride of the Legion]

Vigilator[Melta Bombs, Heavy Chainsword]

Master of Signal

3x Veteran Squads[One squad has two Heavy Bolters, the rest are naked]
+Rhinos

2xSeeker Squads [8 each, 4 combi-plasmas] Polux deep strikes with one, the other outflanks with the vigilator or grabs a rhino and scouts.

2x Heavy Support squads [5 each, one with missiles and the other with lascannons]

>>46044082
>Ultramarines
>Command Staff
>67% sane
>Hated
>Close Combat
>Mk IV
>Needs Improvement
>Recon Marine
>Not a Psyker

So what we have here is a retarded Recon Marine who likes to charge into close combat on his own. His legion hates him for being a dumbass but fuck he gets the job done somehow. They make him commander of the Recon Marines and dump him into the Knights Errant as soon as they can so he will stop getting scouts killed.

Also armour section should have recon armour.

>>46047353
Five lascannons in a single unit of 5 marines seems a little squishy to be your only real anti-tank weapons. Missiles will really struggle to bring down any AV 14 when the lascannons die (and they will die if your opponent has AV 14 because the lascannons are squishy and the only real threat). While you could assault AV 14 vehicles I never rely on assaulting vehicles myself especially if I only have a power fist and one dude with meltabombs.

>>46047084
>ie short term profit for long term ecological damage
You shut your mouth, nigger, we needed to release millions of white doves into the air around a hive city on a perfectly clear day. Who gives fuck about the piles of dead bird meat just outside the city limits or the weather fuckery violently destabilizing the planet's climate? We was celebrating.

>>46047433
to be fair it's only 1750 so it's unlikely he'll be seeing too much AV14. I would still find room for melta bombs and maybe switch a unit of Seekers to combi-meltas, Armored Ceramite is expensive at 1750.

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>>46044082

Raven G
Vet
54% sane
Known throughout most the legion
All rounder
Mark 4 armor
90% team player
Consul Moritat
No psyker

Bretty cool. I feel like building this marine.

>>46044082
Fat the I can't find a table VIII is frustrating the hell out of me.

Is it fucking true that Justaerins are finally usable?

Too bad my Justaerins are all victims of FW's horrible QA failure

>>46048528
Mostly.

Unless you're me and want to stick them with an HQ in a Land Raider, because the minimum squad size is now 5.

Land Raider with transport capacity 12 when?

>>46048522
table 8 is the specialist list to the immediate right, the image is just badly organized

>>46048610
>Land Raider with transport capacity 12 when?

Ward gave this to us in 5E but you faggots were too busy crying about him and it's now nerfed back down to 10.

Congratulations.

>>46042479
So this is why every thread is fist fisting through and through.

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>>46048743
ain't no love like fisty love

Y'all motherfuckers review my Word Bearers list:

>>Word Bearers Age of Darkness Force Org.
>HQ
(450) Lorgar Transfigured-Warlord
Rite of War: Primarch’s Chosen
(135) Chaplain: Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Burning Lore
>Troops
(265) 10 Veterans: Melta Bombs
Dedicated Transport: Rhino: Combi-Bolter
(265) 10 Veterans: Melta Bombs
Dedicated Transport: Rhino: Combi-Bolter
>Fast Attack
(290) 10 Seekers
Dedicated Transport: Rhino: Combi-Bolter
>Elites
(230) Gal Vorbak: 4 Dark Brethren
Dark Martyr: Power Fist, Artificer Armor, Melta Bombs
>Heavy Support
(365) Spartan Assault Tank: Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite, Pintle Havoc Launcher

So I'm strongly considering starting a second legion. I like the Night Lords, but I'm also a fan of both Word Bearers and Emperor's Children. I currently run Alpha Legion and want a different play style. which of these legions would be ideal for a more melee and assault oriented force?

>>46048966
Word Bearers is the strongest melee legion. Take some tac squads, daemon allies and deepstriking Gal Vorbak and you've a fairly strong melee alpha strike.

>>46048966
>I currently run Alpha Legion
>>46048978
>alpha strike

obligatory hue

>>46048978
They're the strongest melee army? I thought that'd go to the Raven Guard or World Eaters.

>>46049030

Raven Guard can't take attacks back and WE is only strong in fluff and shit on table.

I don't know if WB are the best melee army but I wouldn't doubt it if you factor in psychic powers and other buffs.

Salamanders, IH, and DG seem like they should be good at assault too. Maybe IF as well.

>>46049044
What of the EC and the NL?

>>46049165

You should probably start reading some rules instead of going by fluff if you're seriously asking about those two legions. But asking about WE already revealed all your cards.

>>46049193
>All of my cards
I've not played a lot of games. I've read the rules, but I had reasoned that free chainaxes would make them decently strong if they're given assault transports. New EC are pretty good, I know that. I'm legitimately surprised about the Word Bearers, as Ashen Circle are a unit that seems pretty mediocre. Night Lords I actually do need to read a little more about.

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What's the most flexible army that isn't Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, and Sons of Horus?

I initially thought I was going to play White Scars, but White Scars are so one dimensional just spamming BIKES BIKES BIKES.

>>46049327
IF, just spam bolters!.

>>46049327

30k Scars aren't specifically bike-based. They want you to keep moving but their infantry, and especially mech sections, are baller. And power glaives are one of the best melee weapons in the game.

Fists work well with the fundamentals, really great vanilla kit. Ravens are also all-round excellent with wonky deployment options.

Sorry guys, I don't have a rulebook on my hand at this moment. What was the Crusader rule again?

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>>46049797

>>46049937
Thanks!

Where do you check changes to the previous legions, like aforemented Justaerin buff and so on? Book 6? Or that new Legion red book?

Help me /tg/, I got a boner for world eaters and i'm thinking of starting a small collection/army. Is the World Eaters Legion support cadre a good deal?
I just want to RIP AND TEAR

>>46049976
It's the new legion red book that hasn't been released yet except in small amounts at a HH weekender.

It's up for pre order on FW now. But what you have seen thus far have been leaks.

>>46050019
Hmm.... Ok, is there a webpage I can check those leaks?

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Going to Run Loyalist Night Lords based on a heavy terran recruited vet force with a terran Praetor sick of Curzes shit and shunned by the other loyalists. Clean fresh looking armor and its time to purge the guilty.

>>46050063
Well they were all here at some point, so the archive/4plebs would work, but it might take a while

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>>46034941
Are Salamanders a fun legion to play?

For getting fire on everything they do sure seem to have a lot of restrictions.

>>46050101
damn son, they look sharp

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>>46041926
-Leman Russ

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Wonder if they'll ever make a kit out of Sammael's bike.

>>46049193
So you're saying that
>>46049044
>Sallies
>-1" to charge and only roll d6 for sweeping
>IH
>Pass LD in order to sweep, also lose their biggest bonus in assault.
>DG
>-1 to sweeping advance.
Are better in assault than
>>46049165
>EC
>+ d3 to combat res, +1 Initiative on the charge
>>46049030
>WE
>Re-roll all ones in the first turn of assault, rage, free CCW and apothecaries can give everyone +1 attack.

>>46050464
>free CCW
That's not how chainaxes work you dingus.

>>46050472
Oh for fucks sake.

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reminder

>>46042479
>the 2 legions that currently don't have rules
>Space Wolves are dead last
>Thousand Sons are in top 3

Fucking how? Fucking why?

>>46050490
So Lacryaemarta techpriests are a 12" bubble of +1 FNP despite the book saying 6"?
Good to know.

>>46050508
popularity contests always go goofy no matter how much you try to outline the rules

>>46042605
That's because even in GRYM DARK people like a light shining in the darkness.

>>46050464

Or, indeed, BA with their +1 to wound in CC, and the potential for +1I on the charge with their RoW. The two of those have the potential to shift combat resolution in their favour pretty heavily.

You can bet as well that they'll get some tasty assault units when they release the rules for them, but that's going to be a long time coming.

>>46048871
how many points total?
Taking Veterans just for melta bombs seams dumb.
As funny as that Spartan is I'm just going to drive a squadron of Vindicators to either side and fuck you.

>>46050151
Yes
Move Through Cover on all (UNITS) is FANTASTIC.
Just don't lost combat, but if you do you have to pick one dice (THAT DAMNED 6) and re-roll it.
Our Preator's are GOD LIKE because we just pay 20 points for EW.
Firedrakes are a hilarious bullet sponge.
Also getting a 5++ vs Melta, Plasma, Volkite and flamer's for our vehicles is amazing it even works vs Melta BOMBS

>>46050870
Can't check my book right now, but I thought the vehicle Invuln was only against melta weapons/bombs.

>>46049193
EC are one of the best melee legions
>Fast
>Have a rite of war allowing you to choose exactly what turn units arrive from reserves and letting them outflank
>+1 initiative in challenges
>+1 initiative on charge for ICs
>Palatine blades are one of the most lethal and cost efficient melee units in the game
>Phoenix spears for sergeants
>Almost guaranteed sweeping advance

>>46048222
In my meta at least people tend to like AV 14 at low points since they are often anti-tank anyway and if the enemy doesn't bring enough anti-AV 14 than they can run around often freely.

Do people like their legions as a military force or as a band of individualistic knights? That is, do you like vast majority of your dudes to have identical stock equipment vs. every troopers being special?

>>46051275
Since i play EC, i like a mix of both.
They are proud of their legion, but also have very individualistic goals and mindsets.

>>46051275
For my DA...
The Terrans all look alike, same war gear, paint scheme
The Calibanite Legionnaires will get some cloaks, lion stuff, Knight swords for extra CCW.

>>46051492
Huh. I was thinking about making a Black Shield generator, but you beat me to it.

>>46051802
Yeah its not that inspired but I thought I'd have a crack.

>>46051827
Looks pretty good to me. Far neater than my KE generator.

>>46049030
Raven Guard are good at a specific aspect of CC. They are good at blitzing, strike/fade, and lightning strikes. The Dark Furies will mince a fair share of things on the charge and Corax can kill 10+ Marines on the charge, so he's good at culling.

World eaters are the best at chomping numbers.

EC are better against other marines.

NL are like RG but a tad less choppy and more shooty.

>>46052238
I enjoyed your generator, it was why I made this one.

>>46050870
Melta bombs are Armourbane, not Melta.

>>46052497
The rule explicitly states melta bombs as one of the things.

>>46052521
Indeed it does. My bad.

>>46052284
Am I the only one that thinks that an EC/WE army could be rad as hell? CC focus, EC deal with MEQs and TEQs while the world eaters slaughter any hordes that the opponent has. EC have the initiative to kill off the enemy without retribution plus access to one of the better legion unique melee weapons (IIRC white scars have an objectively better weapon but they don't get initiative bonuses like EC do). The only real issue would be killing dudes like Sigismund, are world eaters able to turn down challenges, I know EC can't?

>>46052409
Aw, thanks, Anon. I needed that.

>>46052683
You shoot Sigismund, don't get him in CC.

>>46048711
Take your high capacity assault tanks and go.

You don't need Godhammer Lascannons and 12 transport slots.

Really though, that's less of a problem in 40k because you have two Land Raiders with better weapons loadouts and transport capacity 12+

30k arguably needs one because your only option for transporting terminators and a character is a Spartan, and the game already has enough sweaty dudes in Spartans driving at each other.

Maybe the Tartaros pattern will deliver.

>>46053015
What about Kharybdis? Or a Storm Eagle?

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>>46050508
Magnus did not have sexual relations with Leman Russ!

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> Look, Ferrus, look at what I'm offering you.
> Your dreams.

>>46053137
I was deliberately leaving Flyers and Super Heavies out as a separate can of worms and focusing on land based transports.

>>46053186
I seem to recall that Magnus pulled out after Russ was pounding the shit out of him.

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So I have a walker related question: If a dreadnought moves does it still suffer the vehicle penalty of only being able to fire one weapon at full ballistic skill or can it shoot them all normally?

>>46054689
Walkers can shoot all weapons at full BS unless they have an ordnance

>>46036968
Tough question. I'm not sure the Romans really had mess halls, so no need for Latin imo.

>>46055248
But do the Ultramarines have vomitoriums?

>>46055319
Sure, every theater needs exits.

>>46055078
Do you know where it says it in the rule book because for the life of me I can't find it, and my group has rules lawyer who insists my leviathan can't shoot more than one gun at full BS a turn if I move

>>46055543
Should be under the Walker rules.

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>>46055543
Here you go, anon.

>>46052683
>The only real issue would be killing dudes like Sigismund
yeah angron will do that easy peasy :^)

>>46056081
Doesn't say you can fire at full BS

>>46056113
I thought the same thing when I saw >>46056081 because didn't it say back in 6th that since they were so agile they could fire all of their guns at full BS or was that just a Defiler thing?

>>46056113
It doesn't say that there's any penalties or count as snap fire. Shoot at full BS

>>46050490
>says exchange
>actual rule says "take instead"

gosh, I know customer service was bad but could they even TRY to read the rules?

>>46056409
The intent was not to reiterate the rules but clarify them, despite the dubious legitimacy of that clarification, parroting the rules as they appear would be useless.

>>46056409
Will the new red book clarify this once and for all?

>>46056488
Of course not.

>>46056140
This. You fire at full BS by default, if the rules don't say you get a penalty, you don't get a penalty.

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>>46056409
>>46056477
>>46056488
>>46056537
If anything, the Wolves will also get the option of chainaxes.

>>46056565
I agree with you, but the debate is over the meaning of "access to chainswords" more than "for free."

We're saying that a model that can pay +2 points for a chainsword DOES have access, even before paying the two points. Others are saying you don't have access until you've paid for it. I disagree but I can see where they're coming from.

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I don't quite understand the White Scars rule, especially the "in the Movement phase and/or Assault phase it gains the following" part. No intermediate commas, as if the bonuses were active only in the assault phase, your's and your enemy's (and in the movenent phases too, for some reason). Had they written "ends the Movement and/or the Assault phase at least 6" away from the point where it began the phase, it gains the following", without repeating "in the Movement phase and/or Assault phase" then there could not be any other alternate interpretation. But knowing FW, it could be a simple typo (it's understandable the guys who write "Satareal" could miss something so small yet so crucial as a comma). Does this means that, as long as they go fast they get better at range like the Fists (which also functions in overwatch), better at melee like WEs and get +1 to cover like NL (but better), all of it with no real drawbacks at all and access to AP2 at initiative at powersword cost? I just find it a little hard to believe, that's why I ask.
>>46056799
Ohh. I thought it was kinda obvious they do have access.

>>46056799
I'm in the camp of RAW free chainaxe, RAI chainsword priced axes, with the inconsistent writing being a fluke, more than a little bit influenced by the email desu.
Until we get a decent faq or re-write I expect this to remain a 'roll a 4+' argument.

Rolled 6 (1d6)

>>46056931
>Decimated

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>>46053015
>He doesnt deploy out of a Fortification

What are you, an Iron Warrior or something?

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>>46048610
>>46048711
>>46053015
Y'all motherfuckers need Triarii

>>46036968
In all the books I've read they're called the "mess hall."

>>46056931
Its not though, the idea that access means having to own the axe is invalidated by the "Take instead for free" wording. If you have to buy the sword, and then take an ax, you arent "taking instead for free" you are exchanging one for the other. the word "instead" removes all need to get the chainsword.

Your options are
Replace a bolter/pistol for a chainsword
Take a chainsword for 2 points
or INSTEAD take a chainaxe for free.

The RAI IS free axes, there is no where to suggest that it wouldnt be, either in the rule or in any similarly worded rule. Add to the fact that we are literally years with the rule being reprinted multiple times with absolutely no changes and its 100% clear that there is no conflict with free chainaxes. The Blood angel rules with hand flamers alone confirmed that this style of rule is a precident, of course people then keep trying to move the goal post or claim words dont have the same definitions they usually have.

People that try to push the "pay 2 points for a chainaxe" are either Waac players, attempting to make their opponent waste points by convincing them to play their legion rule is wrong, or people just looking to cause conflict.

This argument has been dead for years now and not a single step has been made to prove the RAW and RAI view of free chainaxes wrong. Its just people trying to kick the players of the current worst legion while they are down, and its petty as fuck.

Anyone asking me to "roll a 4+" are literally asking me to deny the basic english of a very clear rule and are clearly not worth playing.

>>46057194
>Look at the meaning of the words as written.
>Clearly only one meaning can be derived from them.
OK, as I said.
>so there could be no other intent.
Normally I side with RAW, but when FW emails contradict it I side with them as appealing to 'le higher authority' sits better with my group.

>>46057194
Deja vu from the Dreadmob shit in the 40k thread.
>The strength of my army has anything to do with rules interpritations.
OK.
I honestly can't see why people have to ruin there own perfictly good lodgic with playing at the moral high-ground, thereby ensuring that the anon they're talking at will never give ground.
TL;DR: just make you're point with out the sperg, and being right will be what makes you right.

>>46057194
It's a shame you're right, because I hate preachy shits.

>>46056096
>Bringing a primarch
>To kill a single marine
I mean I love Angron on the tabletop but that justification is retarded.

>>46057705
>:^)
You do know that this face means he's taking the piss right?

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>>46057705
>Implying Siggy Starfist is a regular guy
>Implying Angron won't kill him AND everything else

>>46050101
The red looks a little flat imho
Other than that I really like them. The blue/green accent is a nice touch

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>>46057808

>>46057808
That you're a piece of shit? No need, we know you cant think and resort to copy+pasting stale jokes.

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>>46057861
>iw in charge of handling banter

>>46057861
> copy+pasting
Implying anon doesn't have a macro for this shit.

>>46057861
Complaining about repeated shitposting won't do a thing, but reporting it will.

>>46057808
Daily counter

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>>46057911
Go pray some more, churchboy

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>>46057808

>>46058210
>All that angst.
IW confirmed for emo kids.

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>>46058266
decimating in my skin

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>>46058291
til Olypia looks all grim

>>46053015
I always though that they should have made the Proteus Transport Capacity 12 - it's the dedicated transport option for far more units, and with the Augur Array it would be 10. It actually has no other merits over a cheaper non-resin phobos land raider, aside from looking retro (if that's a plus to you).

They'd sell more too, which often seems to be the justification for something being better (I have no doubt it's the reason that it's a dedicated transport option far more often than anything else, rhinos included).

I have a little headless question.

I haven't found anything on what happens to Iron hands (haha) after the loss of the gorgon.
can anyone enlighten me on what happened after his head got separated from his body?

thanks

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>>46058558
>little headless question
You brought this upon you
>What happens to the Iron Hands
Read HH:6. Lots of red talons and stuff

>>46057856
whoever wins we lose

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>>46058703
Whoever wins, A CHALLENGE WORTHY OF MY SKILLS

>>46056878
Así FW

>>46058932
*Ask FW

Are the red books on FW website the most up to date ones?
I need them for a tournament :(

>>46059022
they are coming out with a new one ina few months

So I like the idea of Chymeriae Blackshields. Are melee-based Blackshields at all viable? Seems like Outlanders are way better mechanically, but I like the idea of unstable freaks bumrushing the enemy.

>>46059047
The age of darkness is released in 2 days,
crusade army i'm not sure if it was a new book or the old one still on sale?

>>46058510
I was thinking of that too. I'd prefer one with an assault ramp, but take what you can get and your points make perfect sense.

If the rules unfucked themselves and let you charge after disembarking from a transport that didn't move I'd be throwing myself straight into the 12 man Proteus with reckless abandon.

>>46059184
>If the rules unfucked themselves and let you charge after disembarking from a transport that didn't move

But thats how it works, dont move the rhino if you want to assault out of it. Assault vehicles means you can move 6'' and still assault out of it.

>>46059219
Not anymore, you can't disembark and charge in the same turn in 7th.

>>46059219
Nope. No disembarking charges without assault vehicle.

Word Bearers or Night Lords? Both seem like cool armies and both seem to be pretty decent. Are either of them decent armies?

>>46059094
>Blobs of marines potentially (if you go the S/T route) capable of absorbing even more fire than regular marines
>Perform much better in melee combat especially against other marines with WS 5 for everyone being huge on marines
>Can utterly rape marines in close combat
>Low initiative means that you don't lose much by taking axes and fists

>>46060024
30k is far more balanced than 40k, so even the bad armies aren't nearly as fucked as, say, Tyranids. I'd say Word Bearers and Night Lords are somewhere in the middle in terms of Legions. They get some pretty solid benefits, but are somewhat hampered by being melee-based in a shooty edition. Better than World Eaters, not as good as Iron Hands or Salamanders.

>>46060104
>Every single model in a Marauder squad can take a lascutter
>An entire troops squad full of S9 AP2 dudes with T5 and a 3+ save

>>46060317
with only one WS1, I1 attack each

>>46060317
And 1 attack each, at WS 1, Ini 1, and like 35 pts a piece.

>>46060158

I would argue that they "bad" at shooting simply because some legions do it better, and even then they can spam volkites in terror squads if you wanted to do a gun fighting centered army

>>46060024

Word bearers do well in as a man fighting army, and since most 30k armies (especially the legions) are either designed to excel at knife fight range firefights or at actual knife fighting this isn't that big of a hindrance. Really good buffing characters, access to daemon/cult allies, spooky space magic on almost any character, and arguably the best melee unit in the game, gal vor'bak.

Night lords also do well in a man fighting army, but really excel at murdering anyone weaker then them (i.e. that you out number). They got a massive buff in book 6, now if you outnumber the enemy its +1 to hit and to wound, and with the expect price cut on assault squads and with the new RoW you can build blazing fast armies of bulky models (which count as two bodies for the outnumbering rule).

And, as mentioned, if you wanted to do more shooting oriented you can spam terror squads (who have preferred enemy (infantry) btw).

>>46060158
Thanks for the information.

So has anyone had a chance to use the new Mastodon? I saw the rules in Book 6 and it looked pretty baller. Shame the model's not released yet.

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>>46057808

>>46060317
Regular veterans with power weapons slaughter them

>>46057856
As an IW player, I love this.

>>46060679
They're by no means bad at shooting. But they're not really any better than any other Legion, and distinctly worse than the ones with benefits to shooting. Their benefits are strictly melee based.

Even the volkite Terror Squads mainly work because assault weapons allow them to shoot and charge.

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Erebus for best Chaplain

>>46061159
>Chaplains
>Invented to ensure loyalty to the Emperor in the ranks.
He's the worst Chaplain ever.
He be stylin' though.

>>46058558
Imagine every bad thing you can think of. That plus like ten other horrible things happen. They end up shattered and broken, almost completely wiped out, and the survivors turn all teenage girl and start cutting off limbs because they failed daddy.

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>>46061159

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>>46061517
Except this guy

>>46061517
>Imagine every bad thing you can think of.
Learning that your pregnant wife has been brutalized by the doctor delivering the baby, your favorite author died before he could end a book series, and what else?
>and the survivors turn all teenage girl and start cutting off limbs because they failed daddy
They were already doing that.
>>46061643
He and Ferrus never shared much love between each other.

>>46061731
yeah but even more so.
Many of them believed that the reason they failed to save their father was because they weren't cyber enough, so they started lopping off legs and arms and replacing them with cybernetics

>>46061767
They were already 70% machine what more could they replace?

Decided to try my hand at 30k Ultras.
I have a LOT of 40k Ultras, some 13k points right about now (amazing how easy they are to find on ebay), so I have 2 questions: the troops are right out due to armor marks, but could I back use vehicles without issue?
Is shit like primarches and 30k specific gear like certain vehicles/models an absolute must? I would like to keep it basic infantry with vehicle support for the time being, I like my boots on the ground.

>>46061795
Well there's an iron hand that's basically just a brain and a spinal cord in a robot's body, so that's the ideal goal

>>46061818
Yet I feel like they'll still go further.

>>46061801
The whole point of 30k is to be autistic wih armour marks and correct vehicle types.

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>>46061837

>>46061731
The difference being that before it was generally a ritual thing done by veterans, and mainly restricted to hands to mimic their Primarch. Not to mention Ferrus Manus tried to keep it to a minimum since he didn't approve. In short, it was mainly a positive thing done because they (incorrectly) figured their Primarch would be happy they also had iron hands.

After he died is when the entire fucking Legion started going Robocop. It turned into a form of self-flagellation born from daddy issues.

It's essentially the difference between dieting to have a hot summer bod and sticking your fingers down your throat after every meal.

>>46042879

Detroitfag here.

I'd like to ask all o u white nerds to stop usin balla like you're hood or somethin. Dat shit's just fuckin embarrassin yo.

>>46061731
>Learning that your pregnant wife has been brutalized by the doctor delivering the baby
Uh, anon? You got something you wanna talk about? I know it's 4chan, but if you gotta vent, you got ears.

>>46061842
Well, what are the primary differences between 30/40k rhinos and preds? I have a lot of bitz to work with, if it means drossing shit up.
I know I can't use the infantry I already have, but aren't bulldog termies still present in 30k?

>>46061861
Well that right there probably is tech heresy. He's probably thought of the machine spirit by the Red Talons in the modern 40k.
>>46061876
>After he died is when the entire fucking Legion started going Robocop. It turned into a form of self-flagellation born from daddy issues.
Not even the Iron Hands are safe from daddy issues in the Horus Heresy.
>>46061902
Whoah there, I was just using that as an example.

>>46050870
Yeah, but are they FUN?

I feel they have one play style and it would get boring after a few matches.

>>46061883
Oh oh do brooklyn!

>>46061936
Check out the Forge World site. 30k stuff is more round.

>>46061992
Hell.
Looks like I'm starting from near scratch then.
Don't suppose 30k has a strong ebay market?

Figured it'd be best to ask you guys, I've been thinking of collecting and painting a couple of marines from each Legion, maybe like 5 models or so, just for fun. I don't play the game and don't plan on it, but I'm into models and I like the HH lore.

So does every Legion have their own unique units? If so what would the iconic ones be, kinda like the Salamanders Firedrakes or the World Eaters Red Butchers, Is there a list out there of this?

>>46062166
>>46061992

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>>46062166
yeah

>>46062152
Some chinese/russian recasters sell their stuff on ebay.

>>46062185
>>46062197
I know about the units on Forge Worlds website, but some legions have 3 or more different squads, and some don't even seem to have any, I'm just asking what the most iconic ones would be or are they all pretty much equal? I prefer all the units in Terminator armor so I might just go for those I guess

>>46062152
I just orderd a Legion Champion and Master the Signal from Chinaman. You just have catch the sellers at the right time for some reason.

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>>46062250
Well if you want the Terminator armor units then you're basically going for the honor guards + tyrant siege terminators and Fulmentarus

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>>46050828
>he doesn't know about sniper veterans

>>46062250
Alpha Legion: Headhunter kill teams.

Blood Angels: Probably Sanguinary guard whenever they come out.

Dark Angels: probably the black Knights of 30k.

Death Guard: the scythe termies, I forget their name. Ah yeah, Deathshroud.

Emperors Children: Kakophoni. When people think EC they think noise marines. And these were the first.

Imperial Fists: Templar Bretheren.

Iron Hands: Gorgons.

Iron Warriors: Havocs.

Night Lords: Night Raptors.

Raven Guard: I would argue Dark Fury squads as it shows their preference for jump packs and decapitation strikes, but you could argue Mor Deythan just as much.

Salamanders: depends on what you feel is more iconic of Salamanders. Flamer and Melta? Pyroclasts. The image of the hammer and endurance? Firedrakes.

Sons of Horus: Justaerin.

Thousand Sons: the honour guard Magnus has. I can't remember their names and they aren't out yet anyway.

Ultramarines: Suzerains.

White Scars: basic bikes really lol. Paint them white and people will be like "oh hey White Scars."

Word Bearers: Gal Vorbak.

World Eaters: Red Butchers.

This is largely my opinion but I hope it helps.

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could any word bearer chapters that went to calth survive after? i want to paint the Twisting Rune on one of my 40k word bearers for eternal hatred for the ultramemes

>>46063049
Theoretically, yeah, if they were on a ship and not on the surface

>>46063049
>using 40k arms on 30k armor
triggered

>>46062152
you don't have to start from scratch dude!
ignore the other guy, you totally can use 40k rhinos and land raiders for sure, thats confirmed as they've shown up in the books, probably preds too

>>46063049
black shoulders would make that more WB instead of looking like a BA

>>46062152
40k terminators were around in Horus Heresy, as were Mars pattern rhinos and predators. All the super special cool Preds are only Deimos pattern though, and TL Lascannon Preds don't exist yet. 40k dreads are close enough unless you want the egg men.

>>46063124
it's a 40k marine

>>46063182
it'll have a big word bearer transfer on the shoulder so there won't be any confusion

>>46063124
>csm arms from 20 years ago
>40k
lel

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>>46063197
> All the super special cool Preds are only Deimos pattern though

Don't see why you can't have them on Mars hulls, just convert. I'm making a Mars hull Scorpius.

>40k dreads are close enough

There's a picture of a MkV castaferrum in one of the books, so GW plastic dreads are kosher.

>>46060317
That is like the one terrible way to equip them. Just give them heavy chainswords, wound marines on a 2+ and instant death for GEQs.

Personally I like the idea of vets with power swords. Give them furious charge and you get like 40 Str 6 AP 3 attacks at initiative 3 on the charge. Averages 16-17 marines dead, more realistically like 13 dead as you lose 2 on average to a 20 marine blob before you swing. Guard are even worse off due to ID, hitting them on a 3+, and hitting at the same time means 22 guardsmen die on average to them.

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You know, for years I thought I hated Ultramarines colours.

I used to think they looked terrible, and their paint scheme made them look like toys and that they reeked of "babbies first army" in their look.

And then I saw what really good painters did with them. Fucking hell they are amazing to look at.

Honestly it made me want to Ultramarines.

Pic fuggen related.

Anybody else find this happening to them?

>>46063417
But that's clearly Alpha Legion colors.

>>46062518
>Sniper
>With bolters
>Anything to get excited about
Woohoo you sniped one sergeant. That was totally worth the extra 5 points over tactical marines.

>>46063417
Not really. Blue, red, with gold trim always looked good to me,.
>>46063197
>>46063282
Alright, cool. I just dreaded the idea of having to buy new troops AND vehicles both.
I heard tell that Ultras have a strong ruleset behind them, but that they need Guilliman to pull it off, is that true?

>>46063465
>That was totally worth the extra 5 points over tactical marines.

It is, especially for IF as theyre hitting on 2s and semi-rending is awesome. Every single game Ive had with them they have wrecked face.

>>46063465
>rending
>bad
m8..

>>46061731
>and what else?
The MC in your favorite harem chinese cartoon definitively chose the worst girl.

>>46063124
Dude, they're MkII arms. They're totally fine in 30k.

>>46063609
20 Regular Marines Using Fury of the Legion is enough to kill most squads.

>>46063533
Plus 3 attacks base is no joke, 4 on the charge will put a dent on most shit.

>>46063465
Yes, anon, it really is. AP2 is very useful in a world of 3+ saves.

>>46062152
Litterally the books say its ok to use the 40k rhinos, predators and land raiders

>>46063849
Yeah right. Shooting at an identical 20man squad with an Apothecary, you kill ~4,5 dudes on average.

>>46063849
good joke

>>46063533
>as theyre hitting on 2s
How? Vets are WS/BS 4. Also semi-rending is unreliable. Lets say you want to pick off a specific one wound power armour dude in a unit at 12".
>20 shots
>3 precision hits
>1.5 wounds, 0.5 rending wounds
>0.833 unsaved wounds, 0.666 if the model has a 5+ cover save
I would rather just have just fury of the legion'ed them with 60 bolter shots and wiped the unit out completely.

The whole point of giving them a special rule is to synergize with their equipment. Give them missile launchers and snipers and you can murder multi-wound models or semi-reliably snipe specific models (as you would wound on a 2+, deny FnP, and ignore 3+ armour automatically). If you aren't going to give them special equipment just use tactical marines for objective secured and 50 extra points to spend on useful upgrades.

>>46063609
Is it worth 50 whole points? I would say no, but if you disagree by all means have your opinion, all I am offering is an opinion.

>>46064070
Dude, IF hit on a 2+ with bolters.

>>46064070
>How?

Wow anon, can you read?

>especially for IF as theyre hitting on 2s

TL Note: "IF" means Imperial Fists.

As for special equipment I use heavy bolters, shits baller.

>>46063960
>20 marines fury of the legion at close range
>80 shots
>60 hits
>30 wounds
>10 failed armour saves
>6.666 failed FnP

>10 rending bolters shooting at close range
>20 shots
>6.666 wounds, 3.333 AP 2 wounds
>5.555 failed armour saves
>3.703 failed FnP

The 20 marines cost more but even 15 dudes for the same price would outperform the veterans while being much harder to kill.

>>46064132
>>46064126

>especially for IF as theyre hitting on 2s
The original list was Word Bearers, that is what I was talking about, naked vets with nothing but meltabombs. Even then tactical marines get the 2+ to hit as well, right? So the vets have no bonus over them in that category.

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Thoughts on the novels, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames?

Last week someone was sharing book PDFs and I downloaded the ones that were labeled "God Emperor tier" and "Good tier". Didn't expect much, but I really liked Horus Rising, to the point that I feel bad about pirating it. Next up would be False Gods and Galaxy in Flames - not recommended by the image, but I'm pretty interested in continuing the story.

So are they worth actually buying? Worse, are they worth buying at iTunes prices ($16, US)? It'd be a lot more convenient for my packed train commute since books are a little awkward if you only have one hand available.

>>46064360
False Gods is boring, Galaxy in Flames is indeed acceptable.
Not worth buying IMO

>>46064360

Why do people keep posting this list? It's wrong on so many levels.

>>46064169
Yeah I kinda went a step too quickly and forgot marines hit on 3's when shooting, but your calc is wrong too, how do you get from 80 shots to 60 hits? You'd end up with 5,92 unsaved wounds.

Anyway, I think the margin between vets and tacticals is alright. Sure tacticals are a bit better when shooting at marines, a lot better when shooting at guardsmen. Vets have the benefit of more versatile options. Additional power weapons and/or meltabombs is nothing to be sneezed at. The ability to fit the entire squad into a rhino is probably overlooked too often as well.

The suspensor webbed heavy bolter and missile launcher are a honeytrap though, imo. That's when cost effectiveness does start rearing it's ugly head.

>>46061936
In 30k, most of the Rhino-chassis vehicles are Deimos-pattern. Those are basically modeled on the old (~2nd ed.) Rhino models, with modern (Mk II) Rhino proportions, vertical front panels and round side doors. FW sells conversion kits to make modern Rhinos look like those.

But... the Rhinos we see in 40k were also around in M31. Not as common, maybe not as good (in the fluff, there's no rules difference). They might have become common only late in the Heresy. So you can still use the plastic models. Just paint them to fit into the HH era. And maybe don't claim that you're doing an early-Heresy army.

Bulldog Termies (Indomitus pattern) existed but wasn't considered to be as good. The only visual difference is that they wouldn't have had the Crux Terminatus on one shoulder. (The Betrayal at Calth Cataphractii-pattern Terminators aren't expensive on eBay though, so this shouldn't be a big deal.)

Even Mk VII Space Marine armor existed by the final years of the Heresy, especially among the legions stationed on Terra.

>>46064445
It's not the same list, there are several different versions.
You can make your own if you want to

>>46064445
Which low-tier books on that list did you like?

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>>46063197

The coolest Predator chassis is the generic plastic one with FW reinforced armor plating on it.

>>46064488

Scars too low, Vulkan Lives, Deliverance Lost and Legion too high. Also Battle for the Abyss should be in a tier of its own for just how shit and pointless it is.

>>46064531
>scars too low
I never got this scars love thing.
It's a good book but certainly not on par with KNF, ATS or TFH.
Also Betrayer should be good tier, and nemesis and FOTE mediocre tier

>>46064448
>how do you get from 80 shots to 60 hits?
Yeah I was thinking 2/3 and due to some weird thinking was thinking half of 80 which is 40 and something so I got 60 hits. Whatever.

Anyway my point is that vets are too expensive to take without wargear. They get great wargear options and their special rules should compliment the wargear they take. If you take power weapons take furious charge so you can wound marines on a 3+ or 2+ depending on what weapons you take, if you take a missile launcher take snipers or tank hunters. Fearless and outflank are more situational and depend on what your plan is and how the rest of the army is built.

Regardless if you are just taking meltabombs I would just take tacticals and invest the 50 saved points elsewhere or if I was a gambling man just take five vets and give the sergeant the meltabombs and save 75 points, but a unit of 5 MEQs with meltabombs probably won't last long enough to use their meltabombs.

I hear a lot of horror stories about assembling certain FW kits. A lot of kits actually. What about the sicaran tanks? In particular the venator?

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>>46064360
You tried

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>>46064773
>AE, Nemesis and Galaxy in flames good
>KNF acceptable
>Prospero Burns Mediocre
Oh god call the pleb police

>>46064757
piss easy, my china man one took me 30mins to clean and assemble. The Sicarans have the tracks molded onto the sides of the tank so it makes it heaps easier. Any of the spartan or Proteus hulls though suck huge fucken ass because of having to put the tracks on. Apparently FW now have a spartan cast with tracks attached though.

>>46064825
>liking yiffwank: the novel
opinion discarded

>>46064903
>missing the point of Prospero Burns by that much
Damn no wonder you liked Angel Exterminatus

>>46064932

Angel Exterminatus was an absolute crime against Perturabo. I will give credit to McNeil for his grand attempt to humanize the mind the most mentally inhuman primarchs, but Occam's Razor applies here, as it always does in the mindset of the Iron Lord. Simplicity is the key, expedience the goal. His is a mind entirely composed of mathematical equations, looking at the world around him in angles and percentages, statistics and numbers. Emotion is unwelcome, an unfactorable variable, but it's always there, the ghost that haunts his finely tuned thoughts. He buried his dreams and his heart on Olympia's ridges, and willingly cut all ties and dived into Hell, because his Father asked him to. He murdered millions, because his father asked him to. He broke empires, shattered armies, and his Legion bore the most grievous wounds and losses, because his father asked him to. And he ignored the implications of it all, because his Father asked him to.

Do you honestly believe none of this ground into his long lost humanity, the empty core of his being that he cut out, because his Father asked him to?

He is War-Broken. We're talking about God-Level traumatic mental disorder here. Perturabo can't control his emotions at times. He stares out at nothingness, and speaks to his past. One moment, he's unreachable, and the next he's ripping your head off because you brought him bad news. He can become utterly lost in fine details, both in crafting weaponry, and tearing down citadels. It calms him, returns his mind back the the emotionless numbers that represent hundreds of thousands of his sons dying. The further detached he became from reality, the further he tried to hide from the horror he was crafting, the worse his emotions got.

And Perturabo still buried that shit. He moved forward. He got the damn job done, and the next, and the next, with precise equations and algorithms.

>>46064839
Cool. I'm going to order myself one of those big, veiny, triumphant fuckers and fuck some tanks into the dirt.

>>46065189
Sicaran Ven is for disabling super heavies, any pen hit on them cause them to snap fire next turn pretty much fucking them for a turn.

>>46065306
This
You know how annoying the Typhon is? shut that motherfucker down with a couple hits from the Venator

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>>46065000
You just sold me a novel, anon. You analyzed Perturabo as not even himself could. I don't know if you play the Iron Warriors, but you truly carry the Iron Withing.

>>46065459
>inb4 withing