Warhammer Fantasy General

Rate my first mortheim warband:

Dwarf Treasure Hunters with:

Noble - Dwarf Axe, Shield, light armor, helmet
Slayer - 2x dwarf axe
Engineer - helmet, pistol brace

2x Thunderer - Handgun
1x Beardling - Axe, Shield, Helmet
those are exactly 500 gc btw and I use only minis of the battle of skull pass box without any changes on them

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Don't talk shit this time around. Ignore shills and discuss the game we love.

So, /whfb/, what are you currently working on?

>>46029798
Bloodletters for my brother's birthday. I'm sending him two and a Dragon Ogre to use in his games of WFRP that he GM's now that I'm no longer close by.

>>46029798
dorfs and bretts

>>46029798
Touching up my old skaven, modeling WoC

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>>46021075
Anon delivers, it's shit but delivers

>>46030222
If you fix the bases they're gonna look pretty decent. Add some sand/texture paste, flock and tufts to make it look jungle-y and they'll look at lot more polished.

>>46030222
Love the Slan, banners and the feathers. The mount on the left needs some work though.

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>>46023134
>>46023323
>>46028365
Knights of the Grail is in WFRP 2e. You can probably find it in the linkspam at the top, if not at khorne.ru/2nd/wfrp_web/

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>>46029779
>tfw slew the shill with my nature documentary last thread

Felt good

>>46030222
Those paint jobs look pretty decent to me, but then I'm a super low-level painter.

>>46029798
making some terrain for Mordheim/Frostgrave

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As of ~2522, is the Empire is ready for an Industrial Revolution?

They have newspapers, semaphore, a canal system with pound locks, steam engines, rifling, telescopes, sextants, universities and engineering schools.
And more importantly they have a large middle class and high wages (compared to, say, Bretonnia).

The Dwarves, of course, already have trains, zeppelins, gyrocopters, submarines etc. But they're an artisan culture. They don't mass produce their devices and they don't really have the markets to sell to either.

Vamp counts got revealed

The trailer for VC in TW:W came out. What did you guys think?

>>46031175
>>46031244
Mannfred's voice was fucking silly

The varghulf animation was preeeetty bad.

The bone towers look kinda silly

Everything else looks fine to me.

>>46031286
that would put my precious chaos dwarves out of business

muh iron daemons muthafucka

>>46031430
>implying the industrial revolution wouldn't be started by Chaos dwarfs in the first place, allowing them to quit their barren wasteland and live in Imperial luxury as rich manufacturers

>>46031286
Skaven literally have telephones, I think they're already industrial in many of their holds.

>>46031384
Who is the second VC lord?

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Mierce just launched new minis that would be good Warhammer Fantasy proxies.

>>46030635
>The author and Black Industries also do not approve of the arbitrary execution of peasants, fighting local wars over an insult or worshipping the Ruinous Powers, all activities depicted herein. Just so we're clear.

Its nice when people have a sense of humour about their product. Just a shame they included the actual disclaimer at all.

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>>46032461

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>>46032461
Mierce has a shitload of great fantasy stuff, particularly beastmen.

The prices are pretty fucking silly though.

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>>46032474

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>>46032478
Yeah, I've been trying to get Flint-Fang, Torku, the big werewolves, and the snekwimmen at good prices for a year.
Only at Christmas when I was broke did I find Flint for $50. Sold out by the time I got paid.

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>>46032544

>>46032461
What's up with those giant gaps?

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>>46032629
Mierce cons: gaps that need filling, high price, cock and balls if you are squeamish. Used to have casting issues, but were quick on free replacements and seem to have fixed the problems.

Pros: great concepts, better execution, cock and balls for more realistic monsters. Produce THE best Skaven proxies.

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Would you pat a rat

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>>46032851
I still want Fancy Skaven to be a thing.

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>>46032851
Yes
>>46032758
Would be great for slanngors then :^)

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>>46032903
Fancy skaven you say?

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>>46032911
>That r34 of Thanquol and Boneripper in a 3-way with a female Grey Seer
>That poem to accompany it

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>>46032955
Also, that Vermintide comic.

Skaven have actually gotten more lewds than any race in Fantasy now that I think of it.

>>46032993
Furry bait races usally do.

>>46032461
is Mierce expensive or cheap? cba to google or click pastebin link

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>>46033085
Expensive.

Most of their range is cheaper than Forgeworld prices for better than Forgeworld quality. A but expensive if you aren't a Forgeworld budget though.
Still, for just one monster I like their price and quality.

Not sure what the second thing you're trying to ask is.

>>46033317
meh, I liked FW verminlord better
I'd even buy it if it was available, but would pay no more than half price for this one

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>>46033378
$25 to get any miniature the size of a GW Giant is HELLA cheap. Lightning strike rare.

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>>46033378
The Abomination alternatives are better, since GW never made a good one anyway.

>>46033454
dunno, I really like GW abom. I like it whole, but as a bits source it's even more awesome. never bought one for sole reason that obama has such a great conversion potential it would be a sin to buy something pre-made.
will buy one someday though

>>46033454
While some of the custom abombs I saw in the time between when they got rules and when they got a model were brilliant, I actually liked the official sculpt. Or maybe I just respect a model that drew blood as I was putting it together, either way.

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>>46033454
So there's an option for a more complete one, and a less...polished one.

>>46033522
>>46033523
To each their own I suppose.

Here's a list of good Skaven proxy models and their companies at any rate. Post what ya like, so we can discuss Skaven.

http://unsupported-armies.blogspot.com/2015/08/skaven.html?m=1

>>46031314
Less amused by the overall 3d models, animations and trailer composition, still hyped as fuck though

>>46033454
A matter of taste, GW hellpit abomination is a triumph of concept, composition and execution in my eyes.
Comparatively to the rest of GW range both at the time and currently.

>>46033425
>Ghorgons and Cygors
>Basically just really big Gors

At least the Jabberslythe brought something new to the table.

>>46033567
I'm actually hoping mantic will do some fantasy skaven, the 40k skaven they did were actually not half bad by mantic standards.

>>46033752
Yea, a giant dog thing, or bear or something would have been interesting.

There is a lot more beasts than just goats.

>>46033916
Dogs are khorne only, I think. I've never heard of bear beastmen, Ursun would probaby take umbrage.

That said, carnivorous bulls, stags, even horses; I agree, they need not all be goats.

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Rate my banner bearer and sometimes generic chief in low points games for my skaven.

he needs to be repainted, but I still like the conversion.

>>46032903
I could see the countess of Nuln keeping one. She's crazy enough.

Skaven keeps promising itself it'll kill her tomorrow, but the free food, warm cage, and lack of other skaven is too nice to give up yet.

>>46033957
Dog and snake beast people are mentioned in gotrek and felix. I'm pretty sure only lizard and rats are off limits for obvious reasons. I could see the rotting starving mongel look being good for nurgle dogs. I'd like to have a raven man as a tzeentch bray shaman.

>Beastmen
Shitposters shitposting. Ruin everything.
>Skaven
Here to shitpost and save anything good that gets posted.
>Goblins
Here to make jokes.
>Orcs
Here to call you a faggot.
>Trolls
Actually think skub is better than greenstuff.
>Daemons
Arguing about stupid shit.
>Dark Elves
Here to WAAC and start fights.
>Warriors
Triggered newfags, the bulk of any given argument.
>Ogres
Here for free shit, and participate in any fight.
>Tomb Kings
Bitter and angry oldfags.
>Bretonnians
Resigned and despondent oldfags.
>High Elves
Competitive players, here to help others get better at their playing.
>Dwarfs
The most bitter and salty of oldfags, also here to help others get better at their models.
>Vampire Counts
Competitive players, here to get better at playing and models.
>Wood Elves
Lurking, makes a post once every so often for whatever reason.
>Halflings
Have a bunch of tabs open, only barely monitoring this one. Will reply hours late.
>Empire
Newfags, looking at everyone else and wondering what the fuck they got themselves into.

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http://unsupported-armies.blogspot.com/2015/08/tomb-kings.html?m=1

There's the Tomb Kings proxies.
Hope you guys that just got into the army find something useful.

>>46034135
Based on the huge selection of 3rd party chaos dwarves this may actually lead to a tomb kings Renaissance.

>street signs

>>46034051
This is WHFB. Even Empire is oldfags now.

>>46031286
They consider parts of it to already be in the industrial revolution, like Nuln. They have sprawling foundries covered an area miles across devoted strictly to pumping out artillery and ammunition. I think if the empire would have survived another few decades, they would have gone through their industrial revolution all over the place. Though i wonder, how fast are they going to advance in technology, because they've been using the same canons for almost 1000 years, they've had multibarreled guns for a century but no battling guns, and they still use the same shitty steam tank design from 400 years ago and haven't learned how to make new ones

>>46034347
The timescale on fantasy has always been waaaaay too long. I just ignore that for the most part.

>>46030222
literally all you need to do to turn those from 2/10 to 6/10 is to base them

>>46032993
>Vermintide comic

Link?

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>>46034347
>>46034383
If we assume Sigmar (0 IC) was roughly equivalent to a Migration Era warlord of about 500AD
And that the tech level of Mordheim (2000 IC) was late 15th century.
And that the 'modern' Empire (2500 IC) is late 17th century (in tech rather than aesthetics).

Then really the timescale is just doubled. Which is still dodgy in certain respects, but you are dealing with a world under permanent assault by the forces of evil.

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>>46032093
On the basis they've changed their youtube channel's avatar to heinrich kemmler, it seems a fairly safe bet that it's him.

>>46034746
Lewd comic. Two pages, alt versions with differing cum, clothes, and blood. Wood Elf runs ahead, Stormvermin fuck her.

Look up Skaven on e621, mods don't tolerate links anymore.

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>>46034792
I suppose as long as it's proportional it isn't toooooo egregious.
>>46032758
2 edgy for me tho

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>>46033916
>>46033957
>>46034007
The sky is the limit with beastmen, and there are many bits of fluff with bird, canid, felid, reptile, fish etc. beastmen. All they are, are more bestial, degenerate mutants (which is why when civilized mutants join them, they stand out)

There is actually a point made in various Skaven fluff books that Skaven don't exist, but simply that rat-beastmen are become more common. Cities? Technology? Surely, a mutant might have a large pack and an old pistol, but the rest is poppycock.... Yesyes.

Ungulate beastmen only prevail so that people buy the models and they have a unique table look, and not just greenstuff some chaos stars on old lizardmen.

>>46033567
Jesus Christ, every single one of those alternative miniatures looks fucking awful aside from the Mierce Miniatures ones, that instead are maximum edgelord.

>>46035094
Skaven don't really have much alternative, simply because they've never needed it.
>>46035067
Also beastmen's horn fetishism. All the filthy dogs and snakes without horns are manual labor and camp followers, not warriors.

>>46032461
What's the size on that thing? In other words, how would he look with one of GW's verminlord heads?

>>46034998
I went on e621 searched Skaven and found nothing but weird furry shit where is the lewd wood elf ?

>>46032758
>Mierce cons: gaps that need filling, high price, cock and balls if you are squeamish. Used to have casting issues, but were quick on free replacements and seem to have fixed the problems.

Once upon a time there was Maelstrom Games.

Apart form selling miniatures form a lot of different makers, they also started their own line of big monster models.

Unortunately they weren't doing too well, and went bankrupt. The bad kind of bankruptcy, where it seems they where "borrowing" the money one customer paid to fill the order of an earlier customer, bleeding money all the way and thus increasing their backlog of unfulfilled orders while keeping up a façade of nothign being wrong outwards. So when things finally collapsed, they left a lot of paid for orders unfullfilled.

But just before this crash, the people behind Maelstrom games had created a new company, Mierce Miniatures, and transferred over ownership of their monsters line. Looking at the timing, that would have happened at a point where they would have known their finances where fucked, but before anyone else was really in a position to know.

Ie they took their one major remaining asset, and hid it away where all the people they owed money (their customers, etc) wouldn't be able to get to it.

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>>46031286
I'm more interested in their magical revolution. The colleges have only been around for 220 years and they continue to discover new shit all the time. Plus, there seems to be more and more cooperation and trust between the engineers and the wizards, particularly the bright and gold colleges. With advances in magic happening at the same time as advances in technology, i think the empire was on its way to a magitech revolution

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>>46035784
Warhammer magic isn't exactly conducive to industry though.

You start mass-producing magic streetlamps and the next thing you know there are invisible iridescent serpents slithering around your workbench and you have an ear growing on your knee.

If i were to use a 40x40 base as a unit filler in a unit of skaven slaves it would count as what? 4 models? I'm thinking about throwing some unit fillers into my slaves for diversity and more character than rank and file slaves, also i want to pick up some flagellants and have some pack masters whipping them for being too rowdy

>>46036291
Yes. One small infantry is 20x20, four to a 40x40 base.

>>46036348
Cool! Now to look through my boxes for fun models for this project

>>46032561
>>46032544
>>46032505
>>46032478
>>46032474
>>46032461
Fuck Mierce. Goddamn scammers.

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>>46032462
The joke is that they put in a disclaimer, mocking the ones that had to be put in during the Satanic Panic. The disclaimers aren't in the other books.

WFRP2e was the last time that I really remember anyone officially connected to GW actually having fun and remembering how silly the game is. The required trappings to access the Vampire Career were, "Evil Laugh, Rampant Megalomania."

Good times.

>>46036981
There's one in the core book too.

>all the things depicted in this book do not exist. The Ruinous Powers aren’t watching you on the privy, and there’s no such thing as
Goblin. Don’t get confused — just play the game and have fun!

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>>46035742
>>46036914
This desu. Swore myself I'd never buy from them again. I didn't lose any money but the way they crashed maelstrom irks me to no end. Especially the part where they kept on sending out x% off/sale! notices up until very shortly before the crash just to get some more money in on orders they couldn't possibly fullfill.

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>>46035400
Pic related.

>>46035440
Hentai Foundry, my bad. Sorry.
>>46035742

Shady as fuck, but I've only bought Mierce models from eBay so I've never had that problem. Hopefully they learned their lesson or put different assclowns in charge of finances.

>>46035869
Saved.

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>>46034051
>list includes Halflings
>Lizardmen don't even get a mention

>>46030906
Not really, I'm still here, I just have given up on people obsessed more with whining about shit than actually discussing.

A better use of my time is wondering how best to use Legion of chaos to make my Beastmen army work.

>>46031430
What minis do you have?

>>46031546
They love Hashut, they wouldn't abandon their homelands.

>>46037427
FUCK, Lizardmen being stoic unchanging oldfags that care naught about what changes since they see the big picture was the first one I thought of!

>>46032461
Why is it that I'm only interested in GW minis and anything else is unappealing by default?

More news about Bret squattings anecdotally. Its all but confirmed now.
Nothing about Empire except a single case yet though.

Order book drops when? (Relevant, since availability of models still affects us).

>>46037621
Where are you even pulling this from?

>>46032938
That looks great. I would love to see an entire army like that.

So tomorrow i will be going out and purchasing my Chaos Warrior force Can you give me thoughts on this list before i buy things i wont use or are shit

2500 pts Chaos Warriors

1x Lord

698pts Chaos Lord, Great Weapon, Shield, Poisenous Slime, Scaled Skin, Third Eye Of Tzeentch, Armour Of Destiny, Dawnstone, The Other Trickster Shard, Mark Of Tzeentch, Chaos Dragon

3x Heroes

170pts Chaos Sorcerer, Dispel Scroll, Wizard lvl 2, Lore Of Shadow

145pts Chaos Sorcerer, Lore Of Fire, Wizard lvl 2

195pts Exalted Hero, Battle Standard Bearer, Enchanted Shield, Talisman Of Preservation, Mark Of Tzeentch

5x Core

40pts Chaos Warhounds, Vanguard

40pts Chaos Warhounds, Vanguard

285pts Chaos Warriors 17x, Shields, Champion Musician, Standard Bearer

285pts Chaos Warriors 17x, Shields, Champion Musician, Standard Bearer

275pts Chaos Warriors 17x, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

2x Special

220pts Chaos Knights 5x, Musician, Standard Bearer

140pts Gorebeast Chariot, Mark Of Nurgle

total of 2493 pts any thoughts would be deeply appreciated,

>>46037612
You're new I assume. Once you get enough of a collection and look at how to improve your army model-wise you see that you have every GW possibility at least once, sometimes repeated up to 60 times.

Conversion is fun at first, but a big dull. So you look at other model companies.

I'm like that with my Savage Orcs. After the mob repeats so much, you start thinking of shit you can throw in. At first just some bits from undead kits like war trophies and food, but then you look at Gamezone and Russian Alternative for a whole new model to slip into the ranks.

Or once you get one of like a Dragon and see buying anymore would be exactly the same model and you don't want to convert, you lool to another company.

If it means anything, until 4e GW recommended viewing all possible options available to you. Only in 7e/8e did they get so crazy about it they started chucking people's scratchbuilt scenery into the bin without telling them.

Only buying GW is kind of the cancerous attitude that caused Age to happen.

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>>46037684
>lore of fire

y tho

>buying your entire army at once

y tho

>6 x 3 with shields

6 x 3 is for halbards, 5 x 4 is for shields. If they have shields it's because you want them to not die and win combats for which the extra rank is best, but if you have 6 x 3 is's because you just want to murder the fuck out of them and that's best done by halberds

>>46037652
Social media. Past threads. Age thread. Warseer/Dakkadakka/the forums for the armies I collect.

People posting images lends more credence, but I'm taking some with a grain of salt.

Could be bullshit, but there's only so many people who would repeat an unfunny joke.

>>46037809
...So riding the backlash of a thousand butthurt autists?

It's like listening to the replies to Bell of Lost Souls.

>>46037855
We knew a month ago that a few GW shops in Belgium put Brets in Last Chance and left them there, so we know its happening.

>>46037757
>Only buying GW is kind of the cancerous attitude that caused Age to happen.

>Only buying GW caused the sales of GW figures to go down

What?

>>46037757
>You're new I assume.
No. Got my first GW mini over a decade ago.

>>46037909
>GW shops
>Mattering

It's the GW website putting things on last chance is what shows the deathknell, who cares about literally who stores?

Besides, the Bret line has been dead for what? 15 years now? People are too busy buying offbrand to care.

>>46037801
Well that is how i like to start my armies i find myself a lot more productive when i see the whole project in front of me when it is only small bits i procrastinate. My thought process with lore of fire was to soften up an enemy unit with direct damage so my warriors can route them faster. Also i will take the ranks in consideration for my warriors thank you for the advice. Any suggestions of what i should take instead of lore of fire on my other sorcerer ?

This is my changed list

2500 pts Chaos Warriors

1x Lord

698pts Chaos Lord, Great Weapon, Shield, Poisenous Slime, Scaled Skin, Third Eye Of Tzeentch, Armour Of Destiny, Dawnstone, The Other Trickster Shard, Mark Of Tzeentch, Chaos Dragon

3x Heroes

170pts Chaos Sorcerer, Dispel Scroll, Wizard lvl 2, Lore Of Shadow

145pts Chaos Sorcerer, Lore Of Fire, Wizard lvl 2, Power Scroll

195pts Exalted Hero, Battle Standard Bearer, Enchanted Shield, Talisman Of Preservation, Mark Of Tzeentch

5x Core

40pts Chaos Warhounds, Vanguard

40pts Chaos Warhounds, Vanguard

315pts Chaos Warriors 19x, Shields, Champion Musician, Standard Bearer

315ptspts Chaos Warriors 19x, Shields, Champion Musician, Standard Bearer

336ptspts Chaos Warriors 17x, Shields, Halberds, Musician, Standard Bearer

1x Special

220pts Chaos Knights 5x, Musician, Standard Bearer

total of 2499pts

>>46035742
If you pay with a card, can't you just reverse the charge anyway?

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>>46037855
We knew when TK were squatted that Brets were too, this image was posted from Luxembourg. The manager there put them up as soon as he got the memo and gave no fucks about their planned date.

What rock have you been hiding under?

>>46036004
Warhammer never seemed to follow the "magic and tech can't be side by side" like many other setting. Gold wizards were coming up with new explosives and gunpowder formulas thanks to cooperation with the imperial gunnery school. I think in Sigmars blood they came up with a modified Helstorm rocket that functioned as an artificial sun as a direct counter to vampires blocking out the skies. The fluff already had things like clockwork animals and enchanted sky galleons as well. Cathay had automaton warriors and rockets that explodes into spectral creatures.
In the fall of Altdorf book they mentioned a form of automatic fireplace created by the bright wizards that they placed around the city to see though the plague fogs, and in the end the bright wizards and Engineers invent these tiny bombs which were way stronger than their size suggested. Remember, the college was only around for a couple of centuries, and the engineers school was only an official imperial institute after the great war against chaos. And they only started cooperating frequently in very recent times thanks to Karl Franz urging. give the empire a couple of centuries and you'd see a lot more stuff like this. Definitely not mass produced magical cellphones or anything like that, magical items are still expensive As hell. But items which combine magic and mechanism, like flying battle towers or bullets that can hit ghosts

>>46037911
No, GW 's attitude of doing a complete 180 on policy is part of the same attitude that resulted in Age.

The rules of not letting people use non-GW models in tourneys and adding that 75% of any given model must be GW product in a conversion happened the exact time they started planning Age, which according to Priestly was when they put marketing in charge of game devs.

>>46037947
That's last edition.

That's still new.

>>46038132
You mean around the same time they lost the chapterhouse lawsuit that basically shook the creative house of the company and forced them into this hyper defensive corner?

Or do you legit think GW is some kind of hyper evil mega-coporation and not run by morons

>>46038132
>The rules of not letting people use non-GW models in tourneys and adding that 75% of any given model must be GW product in a conversion happened the exact time they started planning Age

Wasn't that always their policy? I seem to remember the only non-citadel minis that were allowed being the really old school ones from Marauder and the like, back when Warhammer had minis from more than one maker.

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>>46038004
Pretty much anything else but the lore of tzeentch, which is basically lore of fire:shit edition. Fire is just a really lack luster lore unfortunately. Slannesh is the absolute strongest lore available to WoC, but death nurgle and shadow are plenty viable. Metal is situational though, does very poor against low armor.

Also from a purely aesthetic point of view you ought to throw in some monstrous infantry. Ogres, dragon ogres, trolls, whatever. Maybe a manticore or giant. The dragon lore is a good center piece and the chariot/knights balance out with the infantry but one more aesthetically different unit would really since the deal I think. As it stands you have essentially 2 looks outside the dragon lord, plate, which will probably all be one color generally, and wolf fur. Add in some monseterousness and you're good to go.

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>>46038201
I believe in the incompetence of marketing and what happens when execs take their advice.

>>46038054
it is absolutely possible to enchant technical stuff but mass production isn't around just because magical stuff is expensive it is fucking unreliable und can (and WILL) lead to massive explosions and mutations and the like

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>>46038372

>>46038372
I also beleive people need to be so fucking stupid and not see how it was the chapterhouse lawsuit that saw GW become so copyright happy.

It's why we lost non-model rules.
It's why WHFB was killed off.
It's why artwork rarely shows non-model characters and designs now.

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>>46038410

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>>46038466

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>>46038594

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>>46038625

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>>46037669
Only got two more I'm afraid.

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>>46038660

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>>46038706

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>>46038710

>>46038452
So what you're saying is GW cut their own throat by appwaring less friendly, putting out less content, discouraging the community, and with unwanted overhauls.

Not sales figures. Kneejerk reactions by the guys in charge only looking at the small picture.

Going by GW's ever plummeting stocks over the last decade, this is not bot Fantasy/Age but 40k too.

>>46038815
They've certianly fucke dup less badly with 4ok, but if they continue to produce such terrible fucking content as the wulfen and the art from that book I can hardly see it being too long till they start losing 40k sales.

>>46038815
>So what you're saying is GW cut their own throat by appwaring less friendly, putting out less content, discouraging the community, and with unwanted overhauls.

Companies are not your friends, especially rival companies stealing your ideas and trying to use your own game to make a profit.

>>46038815
GW has fucked up in so many ways. Cancelling Games day, the discount internet stores that fucked up FLGSs years ago. And above all, no marketing research.

>>46036914
>>46037284
>>46037335

In all fairness, they have improved a lot. It was the head guy at Maelstrom who caused a lot of the shit (like syphoning funds off for his own side businesses). Now Mierce have distanced themselves the service had improved a lot. I've got 2 abominations from there and 2000pts of Darklands and not had any shipping issues. They're also pretty good at communicating with the community too, unlike geedubs.

>>46038858
40k has been slowly declining for years.

>>46038815
The price rises are a big factor but all that stuff sure doesn't help.

>>46029778
bumping my request for criticism

should i change something to get more armor? or get different models for the thunderers to have crossbows?

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>>46032851
I have one asleep on my lap right now anon (middle one).

Best animals.

>>46038994
I thought about keeping some rats, do they smell more or less like bunnies? basically, can i keep them in my living room or will i never have guests again?

>>46038861
But your customers are.

If the customer feels slighted by your attempts to compete with your rivals, they'll go to your rivals out of spite or mistrust of your brand. PR is the second most important part of a company after the product or service itself, and GW has absolutely no PR whatsoever.

GW owned the market until Chapterhouse. After that they made a string of horrible decisions, Age being the single worst, that destroyed the good will between them and the consumer. Now their stocks are abysmal for an international company, they're unable to woo investors, and they are using their IPs as rentals which is never a good sign.

The way to reverse the trend, a dedicated PR personality and forums they can control and predict interest through, will never happen.

>>46038878
How is their game? I've never seen it discussed here.

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>>46038994
disgusting 2bh.

I was together with a rat-lady for a short time and I hate these things now. Her whole flat was full of rats she "rescued". She tried to push rats o9nto me so she could get even more. Her freezer was full of dead rats she didn't get around to burying yet. From what I can tell she keept everything cleen but there still was this odor. And the male rats had disgusting giant rat-balls. All in all a pretty horrible experience. The sex was great tho.

>>46038946
Well firstly, Handguns cost 10gc more, and what do you get for that?
>6" less range
>Firing every other turn
>Additional -1 to armour save

I'd honestly just go with the Crossbow, it's cheaper so you can spend those points elsewhere, and from what I've gathered, few people suggest starting off with 5+ or 4+ armour. Even then those are downgraded to 6+ or 5+ by Strength 4.

That's really just from what I can tell from the rules, and not from having played.
Seems to me like you'd want to stand back and shoot the shit out of more combat orientated forces (meaning you'd want to get more shots off before melee, so Crossbows) before sending your combat guys into mulch them with axes.

Alternatively, if the enemy is also a firing line, you'd want to be able to shoot before them, so the additional range is probably more useful to you.

I'd also ditch some of the Noble's melee weapons and give him the Pistols instead.
Dude's got the best BS in your Warband and he's not even using it.

>>46039046
Keep their cage clean with fresh sawdust and yeah, they're like bunnies in most ways.
Fuckers are usually smart though, so you need a good cage and need to watch them. They love to wander, so unless you are holding them and keeping your eye on them don't let them out or you may step in your shoe and kill a sleeping pet that found a hidey hole to snooze in.

They're pretty prone to cancer after like six good years, maybe eight if you are a caribg owner.

They have a high metabolism so don't scare them if you can avoid it, you can hurt their tiny hearts.

>>46038861
Companies are not your friends, but when you're product is "fun" then it's best not to be a cunt in every conceivable way you can imagine. They had remained growing in price until 2013, then wow, 2014 chapter house, the cuntery begins in earnest, and suddenly a huge drop then stagnation.
>>46038910
40k has been sickening but it has yet to have a real major fuck up like end times. It's just going the way of BIG SHIT and terrible models coupled with gw's normal terrible behavior

>>46039177
>Hyperbolic posting
>Not understanding at all the impact of the chapterhouse scenario

Here, let me help you.

GW was ALWAYS raising prices. Chapterhouse is the turning point when GW stopped making rules without models and art without models, effectively cutting off any growth of the systems outside of being an excuse for expensive models.

>>46038160
No.

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>>46039275
Raising in price as in the stock m8

>>46039126
thanks for the input
i use the handguns and the melee for the noble atm because i just wanted to use minis from the battle for skull path box which i got cheap and i dont have any different ones.
I might be able to change the axe in the hand of the noble to a pistol with the stuff I have, gotta check but sadly i don't have any crossbows to change my thunderers, maybe i could just carve some wooden bows and glue them to the barrels? I don't really want to buy any new models...

>>46039177
30k could have failed, but GW kept it its own thing and not a replacement.
Age could have been a success if it was hamppenong alongside Fantasy unbeknownst to the residents of Fantasy.

Not to mention adding a long desired faction instead of a new one aping the other game.

Sigmarines as Cathay or Myrmidea worshipers may have worked.

>>46039057
GW pulled off the impressive trick of pricing themselves out of a niche market they had an effective monopoly over.

And chased profits so hard they gutted sales.

>>46039538
Here's the parable.
When Kirby bought out GW, he had a goose that lays golden eggs. But he wanted to pay off his loans as fast as possible.

Rather than cut it open like a complete moron, he reached his hand in it's cloaca and got shit in its entire female anatomy. Now the golden eggs don't come out pure and the stink something awful while the goose is getting weaker. Another farmer took over, but the damafe is done and Kirby is still pushing the farmer to get the best eggs possible faster.

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>>46039046
It's not bad as long as you keep their cage clean and use suitable bedding. I use paper pellets that absorb their pee, and clean out the cage once a week. It's fine, never had any comments or complaints.

Mine are kept in the living room, and it's the best place for them. They LOVE human company, so you hanging out with them makes them happy. Mine will sit and watch what I'm doing if I'm moving about.

They're fantastic pets anon; cheap to keep, clean, intelligent, loving and fucking hilarious. Check out the rat general on /an/, that's usually a good place for advice.

>>46039153
Are you a fucking idiot anon.

NEVER use sawdust (it fucks up their lungs), and sadly they don't live 6 years. 3 is a good run. One drawback of them.

>>46039123
I guess I should scult giant rat-balls onto my skaven for realism

>>46039658
Not sawdust, my bad, the fluffy stuff they sell for hamsters in Petsmart. Whatever its called.

My rat lived 7. Her sister died at 4, she survived incredibly long.

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>>46039729
Mierce got it right.

Pigs and rodents tend to get massive balls. Bigger than horses or bulls visually since they hang more.

Not to go off topic but rats are super great pets especially if you live in an apartment or have limited living space, they do however get super lonely if you don't spend at least a few hours a day with them even if this means sitting on your bed and watching tv or shit posting with them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LMgkGesoVI

>>46039495
Speaking of Cathay, its a damn shame GW never got around to fully fleshing them out. From what little tidbits we got from in the fluff, they were a really interesting nation that are pretty much the empire mixed with ancient nehekara with tons of auxiliaries. I would have also loved to see Ind, Nippon and Khuresh. Instead/alongside of age of sigmar, we should have Got "warhammer Fantasy battles: Eastern Kingdoms" expansion.

Anybody else still playing Warhammer skirmish?

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>>46039123
YOU WERE FUCKING YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S RATS?!?

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>>46039658
>mouse gaurd

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>>46038994
You're making me miss my ratties... Meet the late Lord Baldwin Scrottington III Esquire.

Yes, thats a cat carry box. He was a greater hairless rex.

>>46039046
Cleaner than bunnies, if you use proper cage filler, clean it regularly and wash their bedding.

>>46039123
>rat-lady
Don't blame the poor rats on her poor keeping.

>>46039868
And they need at least one friend!

/twg/ here, Im pretty hyped for TWW and as someone who plays orks in 40k (mainly for painting) I thought I'd start a fantasy army. I know fantasy is kinda dead but I like the old school DND styled world more than the SPESS world of AoS So anyways, do you guys have any pointers? I cant really decide on an army, they all look cool to me. High Elves, Empire, and Vampire counts seem to appeal me most. I like doing armies of 60% of mostly the same infantry, with a line of ranged support and cavalry to hammer and anvil generally when I play total war games, if that helps with anything.

>>46035869
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cui7q9kn7MA

>>46039123
>Her freezer was full of dead rats she didn't get around to burying yet.
Friend's freezer looks the same. She has two pet snakes.

>>46041246
well do you actually want your Warhammer army to be the same as a total war army?

High elves are the only one on that list that wont initially be in the game so I'd say go with them.

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>>46041246
Fantasy is only as dead as your local community. As for ranged support you won't find an abundance of that in vamps, they are probably the least orthodox of the 3 armies you listed. Theirs is more of a "giant hordes of skellies and zombies kept alive by a handful of necromancers tarpits the enemy while cav or giant fuck off monsters hammer them" thing while the empire and elves are closer to the typical style with elves being more elite. The op has a lot of good resources, all the books you'll need, alternate mini manufactures, that sort of thing.

>>46041361
Mine is filled with snakechow too. Mine doesn't stink.

>>46041246
What this guy said >>46041397
particularly about the local community.

I thought there was no interest for 8th ed fantasy in my area, but when I started working on my own TK army suddenly a bunch of people came out of the woodwork to say they wanted to play again too.

I reckon a lot of people were put off by AoS and assumed it was the death of 6th/7th/8th ed ever being played again, all it takes is showing them that that isn't necessarily the case.

>>46041397
>>46041371
Neat, thanks. Think I'll do elves because my parents always praised elves as a kid, might make them happen next time they visit me.
Are there any horribly bad units I should avoid I don't waste money like in 40k?

>>46031314

I don't like Mannfred's voice, it feels too deep and more like something that you'd hear come from a Strigoi rather than a von Carstein.

>>46036981

>WFRP2e was the last time that I really remember anyone officially connected to GW actually having fun and remembering how silly the game is.

Counterpoint, AoS, which resulted in screeching over the veneer that you're actually an adult playing with toys being shattered.

Even if it's not present in the rulebooks themselves, I've seen such silliness in other areas.

>>46038132

>The rules of not letting people use non-GW models in tourneys and adding that 75% of any given model must be GW product in a conversion

Privateer Press does this as well, probably Corvus Belli and Wyrd too.

It's what happens when the company itself holds tournaments and realizes that bills don't pay themselves and people don't work for free.

>>46038452

>It's why WHFB was killed off.

No it's not, Fantasy died because its sales weren't deemed good enough for GW.

It's astounding that people will say such shit when examples such as the Imperial Guard in 40k shit all over their argument. A simple name change and everything is kosher.

Chapterhouse wasn't about appearances either since there are tons of small companies that make 40k and Fantasy knock offs, the difference is however that they have the good sense to realize that using the official GW name and referencing official GW models probably isn't a good idea.

>It's why artwork rarely shows non-model characters and designs now.

Or the artists have a deadline to meet and/or just want to get paid so they take the easy route.

>>46034135
I appreciate the effort, and some suggestions are quite good (characters, mostly). But thank God I hoarded like mad the moment the went Last Chance to Buy. It's prolly one of the most difficult armies to proxy.

>>46038737
Shit, that was good. Thanks anon.

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>>46039123

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>>46041623
Fuck off, plague carrier. At least having a predator in the house keeps the place clean of vermin, what does a rat do besides be easily disposed of when you don't want a pet anymore.

Can anybody tell me if Ebob Miniatures managed to sort their shit out? I wanted to order some stuff from him but I heard he had been having some problems because his caster died.

>>46041204
He looks pretty fat or maybe its just weird seeing rats without fur.

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>>46041714
> what does a rat do

Provide a space efficient, clean, loving and intelligent animal companion that can be trained to learn more voice commands and tricks than a dog.

and break your heart into pieces when they pass away after three or four years, leaving their cagemates in a depressed state where they cry and sleep with a pile of bedding or fluff that smells like their friend ;_;

>>46041867
nah, thats what all rats look like in the nude.

>>46035021
DAT ass squeaks

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>>46041919
Also: ON TOPIC POST!

Does anyone know where I can find a recast of the Warhammer world scribe and ratcatcher (pictured)

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>>46042004

>>46041361
My fiancee once had pet rats and a snake. The rats were originally intended to breed snake food but wormed their way into the hearts of the family, so it was brand new fresh-from-the-store fodder rats for the snake.

>>46029762
Pardon me if I'm retarded, but what does it mean on the Endhammer page by "Bretonnian Lore from the 6th Edition book is removed and deleted."?

>>46042113
City folk are terrible at that. Any time I've heard about people trying to raise chickens for eggs and meat, or a pig for meat, or small animals to feed to a 'prime pet', they always get too attached to go through with it. You need a childhood filled with low-impact slaughter to get the proper perspective.

>>46041466
To my knowledge elves don't have anything mutilator tier. Go nuts.

>>46041623
What would skaven be like if they behaved more like actual rats than caricatures of our negative stereotypes of rats?

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>>46042782
There's a whole movie about it

>>46042228
Bumping my own question, since I'm pretty sure I'm retarded.

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>>46042929
I'm pretty sure they mean that they're rewinding the clock to the days when Bretonnia was a land of shining knights and hard-working peasants, not asshole knights and abused shit-farmers.

>>46042995
Oh. Not sure what I think of that. More of a grimdark Westeros wannabe-noble-knights-but-actually-shitbirds kinda guy.

>>46042782

They would still be numerous. Rats have big families and are highly social.

They would still use biological warfare. Rats were agents of spreading the Black Death and when looking at how they'd fight as humanoids it's too critical a historical touchstone to ignore. Probably handle it more like Poisoned Wind whatever than Clan Pestilens, though.

Speaking of the tecno-wizardry aspect, rats tend to be brighter than a lot of their peers (Hamsters, gerbils, etc.) so they could probably keep science and magic as things.

They'd probably be matriarchal. Momma rats tend to run the show.


Basically, drop Moulder and Pestilens (rolling a little of the latter like the PCC into Skryre), make at least the Grey Seers and possibly the default warlords female, and trade their internal backstabbing for external Just As Planned. They lose their Lead From Behind style stuff but retain Strength In Numbers, possibly with an additional field promote/revenge mechanic. You're on your way there.

>>46042782
They'd probably act as the dregs of human society rather than a sekrit under society.

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>>46042004
>>46042033
I didn't even know they actually sold them. You can get them at Warhammer world? I thought they were just practice pieces or something like that.

Here's an alternative that would fit into WHFB too, but is easier to find.

>>46044108
Used to. These are from a few years ago. Obviously they are not going to be carrying anything but AGE OF SIGMARINES now.

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>>46044224
Wyrd isn't exactly the right scale, but It's an image I had saved. I know that Freebooters Fate has a Female character that has something to do with rats though.

I know this doesn't really help you or answer your question, but I just kinda felt the need to throw it out there.

>>46029798
Repainting ebay stormvermin

Here's my 1500 point Chaos Warrior list. How does it look?

>Chaos Lord General with Mark of Nurgle riding a Barded Daemonic Mount (270 points)
>Chaos Sorcerer with Mark of Nurgle upgraded to Level 2 (155 points)
>1 unit of 10 Chaos Knights with a Champion, Musician and Standard Bearer, all of them dedicated to Nurgle and equipped with Ensorcelled Weapons with the Chaos Lord inside of it (480pts)
>1 unit of 20 Chaos Warriors dedicated to Nurgle and equipped with Great weapons. Each one contains a Musician, Standard Bearer and Champion. (410pts)

This leaves 185 points left for Magic items, Magic Standards and Chaos Powers. Any suggestions? I'm also thinking it might be better to replace the Chaos Warriors with Marauders.

>>46043171
What would natural rats embody? The Horned rat is the personification of blight and ruin, always aiming to tear down civilization and live in the rubble.
I see natural skaven being neutral rather than evil, looking after themselves while trying not to antagonize the other civilizations too much. But If they form a massive, world spanning empire like in the real timeline, there needs to be something other than infighting to explain why they haven't tekn over the world yet. Skaven without a lot of the things that make them "bad" become a very efficient and very powerful force that few could stand against

>>46047347
Incredibly small. You're going to have 2 units on the whole board, you're going to get flank charged and magiced to death.

>>46047387
Maybe if I replace the Warriors with 2 units of 20 Marauders, all dedicated to Nurgle and each one equipped with a Sword, Shield and Light armor and containing Champions, Musicians and Standard Bearers. That would cost 460 points, leaving 135 for magic equipment and chaos powers.

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fluff wise, Do you think the Kroot from 40K could work in fantasy? How do you think the community would have reacted if they were introduced as a new fantasy army?

>>46047482
i dont know about fantasy, buy my buddy uses kroots mounted on cold ones for his 40k army. i always loved kroot, so if you ever do be sure to post pics in wip or here

>>46047482
>Do you think the Kroot from 40K could work in fantasy?
Yeah. Its a big world.
>How do you think the community would have reacted if they were introduced as a new fantasy army?
Now? Much anger, given we're losing TK and Brets for them and Ground Marines.

Before? Mild enthusiasm.

>>46047451
You need at least 4 or 5 units dude. Split the knights and throw in 2 groups of war hounds. There. There's no real reason to field knights in a group of 10 at 1500.

>>46047482
They would look a bit out of place because they were thought for 40k, as a canonical addition people would have whined quite a lot despite their awesomeness, as a small thematic army or cameo I wouldn't see a problem though.

I imagine they would be fantasy Australian, perhaps with a bit more feathers or bright colors.
A race of cassowary would be scary.

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>tfw dark elves won't paint themselves

>>46048731
>not rising an army of undead to paint your undead army
Pleb

>>46048874
Would not that require super advanced necromancy? To make the skeletons / zombies learn how to paint seems like a long project. After all that time you could just have painted them yourself

>>46047482
to my mind, there's plenty of unrepresented factions in WHFB yet, many of them not generic (e.g. fimir)
so I'd be angry at something completely new and alien taking the place of something that is already in fluff

watched VC trailer for TW

I guess devs dislike Mannfred as much as I do. his model, his face, his voice, his lines - it's all a mockery. I approve.

>>46049219
But but Mannfred is best vampire and also one of the best and entertaining villains.

>>46049244
nice GW impersonation
shoulda used >quote tag
though, or people might think you're serious

>>46048916
>To make the skeletons / zombies learn how to paint seems like a long project.
That's the necrotect's job

>>46049244
But why mannfred when you could have vlad?

>>46048874
>animated minis painting real skeletons with tiny brushes
I guess I'm doing it wrong...

>>46049336
Vlad is centuries dead by KF's time, and thankfully they don't use ET fluff

>>46029798
I bought and am assembling the Empire Battalion box. Ten knights, ten gunners (thinking of painting them like Union troops, give Johnny Reb what-for), a cannon and crew, ten halberdiers (including banner, flute, and champion), and ten swordsmen (including banner, flute, and champion; also using some of the hammers from the knights sprues for flavor).

I also got an Empire General small box, and I put together both a mounted and infantry commander from it.

I've also got a Witch Hunter mini coming in the mail because I think it looks cool and taxes gave me some disposable income.

Tempted to get more State Troops to add some meat. Any suggestions?

For what it's worth, I'm also planning on bringing these boys to some AoS games. It's got some steam at my LGS, and I want to represent Empire so we stop seeing Sigmarines and Chaos everywhere. Inspire some people to bring back more oldhammer armies.

>>46049411
Eight knights, rather.

>>46049343
>thankfully they don't use ET fluff

For now....Buahahahaha.

>>46049336
Vlad is not a villain. He is an anti-hero.

why can't Dark Elves into necromancy, fluff-wise? they ain't got moral scruples, they've got the time and talent to actually master it without turning into withered old farts or getting corrupted into shit, like humans, and it would give them a ton of slave/soldiers

>>46047358
a race of giant hyper-intelligent sorcerous cats, obviously

>>46049607
I think they either got a cultural thing about the management of dead souls or simply they don't find it fitting their taste and never refined the art.

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>>46047358
>natural skaven
Does not compute

I'm thinking of getting a 500pts WoC army. To avoid temptations to increase it, I decided to make a list first and stick to it 100%.

How would you rate this list and which Hero should I pick?

>Priest of Wrath with Dragon Mantle, Talisman of Shielding, Great Weapon, Words of Hate = 130pts
or
>Sorcerer (Lore of Heavens) with Mark of True Chaos, Dragon Mantle, Talisman of Shielding and Blessed Sword = 130pts

>20 Barbarians with Champion, Standard Bearer, Paired Weapons and Mark of Wrath = 130pts

>Wasteland Chariot with Pair of Waste Steeds = 95pts
>3 Once-Chosen with Shields and Chosen of Wrath = 133pts

this is 9th Age btw

>>46050023
forget the wizard, I forget that they can't use MoW units

>>46050023
sounds good

>>46042782
Like the Ratfolk in pathfinder probably.

How do you pronounce Myrmidia?

>>46050277
MER-MID-EE-AH

>>46050277
i don't

>>46050277
>>46050296
See also: Myrmidon

nevermind, I've dropped this idea
first of all, I already mentally expanded the force first to 750 then to 1000pts at least, to include all the minis I want... I started to slip the slope even before I set one foot on it
secondly, the model I want for Priest of Wrath costs 18 fucking moneys, that's overkill, fucking GW (say what you will, Slaughterpriest model is superb)

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>>46050453
The slaughterpriest IS superb, simple and characteristic for a khornate "mage".

500pts was a very thight budget to be satisfied with an army.

>>46049607
They're pretty arrogant about their use of magic, especially considering Necromancy uses Dhar, which the Dark Elves almost exclusively use. That and humans are kinda special in that they can master Necromancy like nobody's business. A Necrarch vampire remarked with surprise how quickly his apprentice had learned because of his fear of death, what with the relatively short lifespan of humans. A fear that the vampire no longer had, thus no drive to push his abilities. I would probably say the same about elves, as they can have thousands of years to do whatever they want.

>>46050572
once I admit that I can have a bigger force than 500pts, then all bets are off - sooner or later I'll convince myself that another 500pts and/or some options wouldn't hurt... and then it's another incomplete 4k-ish army with multiple options that I just can barely afford and cannot support without older armies going without attention for months

luckily, the few models I want from GW ain't going anywhere so I can wait

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>>46049411
Never had an Empire army, but I'd say 20 greatswordsmen are an absolute must, both for their performance and models.

2 wizards for the same reasons (lots of interesting leftover bits as well).

And perhaps another cannon?

Another 20 state troops to bring those halberdiers and swordsmen to 20 each.

And a warrior priest for fluff and coolness factor.

With that you should be able to play 1500 pts battles easily.

For 2k points:
Another 20 state troops, another 8-10 knights, or pistoliers. And some flagelants? perhaps a hero on griffon? Or a steamtank? Just to spice things up. I never liked demigryphs but if you are into them this is when you should add them.

>>46050453
I'd go for 1k armies. Let's you have a bit of everything and you almost hit it with just 2 battalions, add some heroes and 1 special unit and you are at 1k-1.5k. Which if you buy with 20-30% discount from a reseller (ALWAYS DO THIS) should amount to about £170 tops, probably less.

And the khorne priest is indeed cool, I feel Khorne is the only army that has received nice minis since AoS (and not all of them).

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>>46051075
isn't this one the priest?

>>46050296
>>46050388
That's how I've been pronouncing it, just didn't sound right.

>>46050572
That picture is slightly absurd, what if people want to play games that are not 2000 point pitched battles?

>>46051109
Those people can go fuck themselves, obviously.

>>46050807
>luckily, the few models I want from GW ain't going anywhere so I can wait

>>46048652
Australian Beastmen could work, since Kroot look like a cross between a crocodile and a cockatoo.

Maybe read the Discworld novel 'The last continent' for inspiration.

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>>46051179
Don't jinx it you faggot nigger. GW will read this and axe a random army out of spite!

what if Grail Knights weren't a unit, but rather were single models?

something along the line of

>Rare; Cavalry (NOT Monstrous); 40mm base
>WS5-6, S4 T4 W2 A2-3 Ld10
>Stubborn, Immune to Psychology (maybe even Unbreakable)
>Heavy Armor, Lance, Great Weapon, Shield, can swap at will
>Ward Save 4+
>Monsters and forces of Destruction have to reroll successful ward saves
>Once per game can get HKB for a turn.

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>>46051109
Picture addresses this

Also nothing limits attempts at different scenarios is

>>46051202
as you could've noticed, I'm aiming at Chaos
no way they are axing Chaos.

>>46051241
It does not 'address' it.

Also what of scenarios with specific requirements? Hell sieges are right out. That picture is just daft, there is a difference between having a fluffy army and being inflexible for no reason.

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>>46051105
Aye, the pic is to illustrate the "and not all of them" part. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

>>46051235
I'd have them lose Umbreakable and the Great Weapon (Questing Knights are cool for being the only ones with GWs) and give them fear, WS6 and S5. And perhaps give them a small leadership bubble as well. They would be brutal, but hey, according to the fluff they are.
The reroll I'd make it apply against monsters only, not certain armies.

>>46051278
>Hell sieges are right out
not really? If I'm remembering the warhammer siege rules correctly, the attacker has additional points to take siege mantlets, towers, rams and ladders, which are usually represented with tokens or terrain of some kind, which anyone with a castle are going to have. Unless you're talking about loading up on cannons and shit to get an advantage, but that's pleb talk.

>what of scenarios with specific requirements
most warhammer scenarios don't require specific army builds.

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>>46051278
I can't tell if you're telling a bad joke, or actually an autist who doesn't understand the concept of a joke.

>>46051278
>It does not 'address' it.
Yes it does
>what if people want to play games that are not 2000 point pitched battles?
>you play just with your 2000 against bigger armies and fuck with the odds

If you want to play sieges but your buddy doesn't have or want to buy the pieces needed for a siege what do you do? you change the scenario accordingly to be played with what you've got: perhaps set in an advanced state of the battle with a section of the walls already broken by background artillery or other objectives than attacking the walls

To seem someone interested in scenarios you sure sound unimaginative

not that the pic isn't an extremist view of things

>>46051109
Then you just have to FUCKING DEAL WITH IT

ARE YOU A GENERAL OR ARE YOU A PUMPKIN

>>46051352
>read that as 'siege manlets'
>tiny dudes pushing rams or carrying ladders

SMURF SIEGE

>>46047358
The skaven are an accurate representation of what giant, upright intelligent rats would be like.

Rats are a carnivorous plague species, they'll over populate and turn to cannibalism at the drop of a hat while eating everything they can.

>>46051390
No, I am not 'uncreative' because I want to actually assault the walls of a castle. Its frankly sad you would even imply that.

And I am obviously talking about games SMALLER than 2000 points. I am not such a dick I would demand sieges, small games or skirmishes never be played ever because I am sticking to my 2000 point army that must never change. If I was I would not have anybody to play pretty fast.

>>46051364
It does not come across as a joke at all.

>>46051352
The point is that a normal field army will include things that make no sense in a siege game. Armies attacking castles leave their horses in camp for a start and bring artillery even if they would not use it in the field.

>>46051448
>siege manlets
so, regular Dwarfs?

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>>46051509
>It does not come across as a joke at all.

>It would be totally ridiculous for White Dwarf or Stillman to ever be less than totally serious

>clearly this guy is honest when he says he perfectly models a 2000-point force and never changes it in the slightest, even trying to play games with this force even though it's not legal/slightly intelligent to do so, going so far as to build a perfect carrying case for that army alone.

>>46051532
Siege Manlet is just a direct translation of the word 'dwarf' to Common

>>46051549
...p-people don't make a static 2000pt army and never change it?

people don't make a perfectly formed carrying case to fit that exact army and nothing else?!

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>>46051560
Shouldn't that be 'beseiged manlet'?

>>46051569
people are so far from the spirit of the hobby these days they take it as a joke

>>46051582
they used to be, but then that human-town-and-a-few-missing-coins story happened, and they became generally "siege manlets"

>>46051593
It's just a bit strange to me - building an army up to a specific size gives me a perfect goal to strive for. Having no upper limit would likely overwhelm me and make me start a different project.

Plus, having an army you can't just swap out infinitely means you're forced to learn exactly how to use it, where it's strengths and weaknesses are, and plan accordingly.

Sure, sometimes you're just gonna get rekt, but it's far more satisfying to win against an army that's the perfect counter to yours than just swap out the units for less vulnerable ones.

>>46051650
Building an army made up of the units you like and using just that army every game with customized everything and pages of fluff used to be the proper way to play the game.

>>46051710
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Warriors of Chaos with goblin green bases. White Dwarf as a source of quality content. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain.

Time to die

>>46051650
>>46051710
Being fluffy, only getting units you like/that fit that fluff, not tailoring your army every time and having customised/converted units is not the same as fielding the exact same force all the time and only playing a specific point value.

>>46051771
The Stillmania thing is an extreme, sure, but it's in the same vein as building a bounded force and committing to it.

>>46051819
What are you defining as 'bounded' here?

Because I see no benefit from committing to a set force. I want the flexibility to play lower point values or specific scenarios.

Even if you go to the level of naming every single man in your army you won't be bringing the infantry on a cavalry raid scenario for example. This is why I like to make an on foot version of characters who are normally mounted, you can use them for skirmishes in goblin tunnels or sieges that way.

>>46051904
Bounded meaning you set a specific amount (2000, 2500, 3000) and build an army to fit it, and stop once you've reached that limit.

These days from what I've seen the tactics surround "what units can I bring to counter the enemy", rather than "how can I use what I have more effectively", and that saddens me.

>>46051904
it is an extreme, and you want the flexibility nad that's fine too.

What having a set list teaches you is how the units work singly or when grouped with others. Not changing the list means you get the most of out your units 'eventually' once you've learned to use them. You can't swap out units that didn't do well as the unit probably did fine it was your use that was poor.

It's just a different approach to the mass that is Wargaming.

>>46051771
That's entirely a matter of opinion there amigo.

>>46052086
Sure but if your opinion is that the only way to be fluffy is to do nothing but play 2000 point set lists you are a dick with an unwarranted sense of elitism.

You can still do absolutely everything about your army by the fluff you have made for it while playing a variety of point levels and scenarios.

>>46051364
>>46051549
Stillmania is not a joke you fucking retard

>>46052173
>you are a dick with an unwarranted sense of elitism.

Still entirely a matter of opinion and quite a self important one at that.

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>>46052173
Hell, personally I like a big force with the same fluff so I can act out all the different kinds of battles, or different parts of the battles. Here the chariots and horsemen and fighting back and forth to secure the flanks of the army, there the great blocks of infantry and artillery are grinding out a brutal slugfest, nearby two scouting forces are contesting a tactically valuable hill.

They're all totally in flavour, but they keep the generalship interesting and really give a feel of fighting in something big without doing a 20,000 point battle.

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>>46052209
It's obviously exaggerated for comedic effect there. Anyone who read the original articles could recognize the difference between Stillman's encouragement of playing for fun and with a heavy emphasis on narrative, and saying things like 'you have to plan your army from the start and never change it in the slightest.'

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>>46052329
>>46052209
My bad, the wrong page there. Here's the one with the section I was looking for:

>That is not to say that collecting 3000 points is going too far, it isn't. You probably need 3000 points in your collection to have a good choice of units to pick a 2000 point army from. Also, there will always be occasions when you want to use the full 3000 points, especially if you want to indulge in a campaign. One of the good things about a campaign is that it will generate opportunities for armies of 1000 points, 2000 points and 3000 points or more. In this way the tactics and strategy of Warhammer can be explored to the full.

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>>46032851

Yes.

>>46052385
>"Each army was only 2000 points"

Well, given that appears to be 4th ed, each army was more like 1,000 points, since half the points were spent on characters.

>>46052433
Stillmania was a short-lived series in 1996, so it might have spanned into 5e, or been entirely there, I don't exactly remember.

Anyways, he encourages you to spend a ton of points on big elite regiments led by Heroes (who are mostly carrying cases for anti-magic) and smash your enemies the old-fashioned way.

>>46052486
I'll admit that I don't really have any experience with the game at that point. I got Warhammer 5e as a kid but never actually played until 6th.

But I remember reading a 5e battle report in a WD. It consisted of a High Elf hero on a flying monster flying around the battlefield, killing every enemy hero and then mopping up.

I REALLY liked the shift made in 6th.

Love those old one pose plastic Black Orcs though. Very nostalgic.

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>>46052629
Yeah, 5e almost reminds me of a game of 3.5 with hirelings; sure, there's a few other dudes around, but everyone knows that it's 5 guys who decide the battle. A 5e Warhammer Fantasy game was a scrap between a couple dozen men on either side in the middle of a massive, almost entirely unused board.

Stillman was a huge fan of WARgaming, and he demonstrated that you didn't have to be Herohammer if you didn't want to be. Instead of having units that just barely hit minimum size who are easily destroyed, march out a regiment of 30 High Elf Archers who can feather targets with sheaves of arrows and won't immediately collapse when someone gets close with a breadknife, or a 20-man strong Knights Panther block that rolls up the entire army one piddling unit at a time. Heroes were strong, but you could bury your enemy in dice if you tried.

Almost no one followed that advice, which is why I'm also glad 6th throttled down characters and made the armies the main deciders again, but at least it was said.

>>46052227
You are agreeing with me? Of course anybody who thinks that is the ONLY way to be fluffy is self important.

>>46052743
No, trying to assert that someone who feels the only way for them to enjoy the game involves playing the army they lovingly crafted in its entirety is somehow a dick is in fact quite dickish.

>>46052742
It's amazing when you look back at old rulesets and realize how easy they would have been to break back then.

>>46052385
>It was getting to the stage where players felt that they couldn't start playing Warammer at all until they had collected and painted 3000 points

Now why does that sound familiar? Its just in 8th the people would often not even paint it. How many models are we talking for a 3K army from back then though?

>>46052815
No, now you are changing your argument. That is not what I was saying at all.

You defended the idea that the ONLY way to be a fluffy wargamer was to have a set army you never alter. It has nothing to do with what they enjoy themselves, telling everyone else with their personal fluff, converted minis and named heroes they are not being fluffy enough because they like variety makes you a dick. Because you are telling other people how to play the game.

>>46052937
No, I'm keeping the argument consistent. It's you who are trying to frame the discussion incorrectly.

Or perhaps you're just stupid and mistook colloquialism for inference.

>>46052981
Yet you are attacking statements I never even made.

I have only been disagreeing with the ridiculous idea that being a fluffy wargamer requires you to have a set army list you do not deviate from. But go ahead, point out where I 'framed' it incorrectly.

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>>46052815
>It's amazing when you look back at old rulesets and realize how easy they would have been to break back then.

And the deathstars we saw at the end didn't? The game has always been easy to break if you tried hard enough, it's really difficult to balance 10+ armies with 15+ unit types apiece, let alone once you add magic items and all the fluffy rules. You needed to have gentleman generals, not powergamers and people using the hobby store tables as training for the next WAAC tourney.

>>46053194
>>46053194
>WAAC tourney

Is that supposed to apply to tournaments in general? Because tournaments are just as much a valid part of the game as any other.

>>46053061
Supporting your point, I am a fluff gamer who changes his list for lore reasons. When I lose in a campaign game, 2d6 of my Ghouls are replaced by skeletons. My Necromancer became a caster Vampire after a particularly awesome win he made possible, and he became a Master Vampire after another ace win.

Once I beat a High Elf player I'll add a Mortis Engine.

>>46053194
Oh please, Death Stars were easy to deal with.

Magic.

Honestly, I wish GW had considered what Kensei does though. If you have your unit fighting theirs in the front and get a unit of yours to attack them from behind while doing this, theirs is instantly destroyed.

Talk about a way to make cavalry and Fly relevant.

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>>46053240
There's a difference between the local Friendly Annual, and competing for the national championship. You can enjoy having a nice tactical match, and if you find someone who wants to go all-out with you have fun, but that's different from treating every game as an excuse to use the latest netlist with the goal of simply beating whoever is unfortunate enough to agree to play you.

>>46053329
>instantly destroyed

That is ridiculous. Bonuses for flank/rear charges is enough.

>>46053259
That is interesting. I also liked the scenarios for WHFB skirmish to use in a campaign. Where the result of each skirmish affects the following full scale battle.

>>46053194
That isn't his point. Back then internet use wasn't a big thing and widespread use of the most broken list wasn't common. You could break the armies just as easily (or moreso), but only people to whom the idea occurred would do so.

>>46053358
>wants to go all out

What do you mean by this? Because you should be playing to win every time unless you are teaching someone, anything less is disrespectful to your opponent.

I have seen a disturbing trend here of actually playing it as a game being conflated with WAAC behaviour.

>>46053380
To be fair, models in Kensei don't move very fast compared to Warhammer but charge really far, so getting around behind a unit is hard. You can use Ninja who can hide in terrain or pop out from the edge of the board, but from what I can tell only one of the four factions can field them and they are super expensive glass cannons.

I've been reading the 1d4chan tactica for Kensei and it seems like a pretty good system.

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>>46053061
No, you're trying to define the parameters of a "fluffy" wargamer as one that does not include the one list every game no tailoring approach.

>>46053194
I think you're just being autistic, there's no moral high ground in not being able to enjoy a competitive environment.

>>46053329
That's a horrible rule.

>>46053194
Death stars were never a huge threat in older editions:
>5th they lost to mulching heroes,
>6th they got bogged down by chaff and never made their points back or were gun lined
>7th MSU would just eat them up
>8th one spell would win the game, either by removing the brick or disabling it completely

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>>46053550
I meant to do it that way in WHFB, I cannot comment on how it works in Kensei since I am unfamiliar with it.

>>46053468
I'd say playing to win using super cheese like Banner Lions is also disrespectful and is still WAAC.

You should try your hardest for sure, but should consider all model combinations rather than just the absolute best possible. But using OP models should be fair as long as you don't abuse it. I like my Terrorgheist, but unless my list was packed with as many Fell Bats and Bat Swarms as possible I wouldn't pack four Terrorgheists in.

But on the table, no fucking mercy.

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>>46053587
>No, you're trying to define the parameters of a "fluffy" wargamer as one that does not include the one list every game no tailoring approach.

I am not nor did I ever imply any such thing. So yes, you were attacking a statement I never made.

All I said was that its possible to be a fluffy wargamer without adhering to a rigid list and that telling people who like variety they are not doing it right makes you a dick.

>>46053468
There's a difference between 'trying to win' and 'playing to win'.

You don't have to build the most optimized army possible, assembling elite units and characters kitted out with gamebreaking combos of magic items, disregarding all concepts of fluff and how an army of that race is constructed other than the basic precepts of Core/Special/Rare forced on you by the game.

Similarly, on the table you don't have to fight every battle being defensive and perfectly calculating, throwing away units like pawns in a chess game (unless you're playing Skaven) for a slight edge and answering challenges with Unit Champions because you're afraid of what might happen to the Big Boss you kitted out for monster slaying and not duels.

It's OK to make choices as the characters and roleplay it, to include big units of cavalry just because you like the idea of pounding hooves shaking the Earth, and having your characters go out and fight in big heroic duels that inspire the men around them, as the rules recommend but don't require you to do. Sure, if you spend every game just doing stupid shit because lolorcs, it's not going to be fun for your opponent either, but from what I've seen most people enjoy a game that remembers it's a game, not a West Point application with wizards. You can still try to win without sacrificing the idea that you're playing a heroic battle game. It's the same argument about roleplay vs. rollplay that goes on every day in the community.

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>>46053634
>banner lions

If you are talking about High Elves I rarely see them, what is this?

I am not supporting super cheese by any means and I put fluff/theme first when making my armies.

>>46053595
Yeah, it would't work well in Fantasy. But you could have something like an automatically failed LD test of any kind when being attacked from in front and behind, or the unit automatically takes one wound that can't be saved for each model attacking from behind.

Something to make Death Stars actually Death Stars by having a big weakness. I mean all you need is supporting models to protect your rear to avoid it, but there's still an element of weakness.

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>>46053682
>There's a difference between 'trying to win' and 'playing to win'.

I tend to disagree, its still a game that you play with the hope of victory. I play my armies 'in character' like you are saying though.

>It's the same argument about roleplay vs. rollplay that goes on every day in the community.

That stupid false dichotomy needs to die.

>>46053695
Auto destruction just for being attacked from behind is way too harsh with WHFB movement options, but I wouldn't mind autodestruction if boxed in (enemies in front, both flanks and rear) and loses combat rather than "lol 10 rerollable I stick until you fluff your rolls". Might be too corner case though but it would end death star v. tarpit combat and give skirmishers something to do.

>>46053693
White Lions Of Chrace are the single best point to stat ratios in the game. Fast, killy as fuck, durable, ignore dangerous terrain, extra save against poison, high Leafership, only 15 points each. No real weakness. Can take a magic standard, up to 50 points
Banner Of The World Dragon is a magic item worth 50 points that makes models in its unit take 0 damage from magic or magic attacks which protects from any spell that isn't save or die, from most upgraded character attacks, and the emtire Daemons army plus a faur amount of Warriors.

Bunker in a Level 4 Wizard spamming Regeneration from Life on them without fearing miscasts, and a killy as fuck character with a LOT of attacks and you have a Banner Lion list.

Banner Of The World Dragon alone is OP as fuck and all non-HE players hate it, and even some HE players too for giving them a bad rep, but then you have a horde of Elf Doomguy under it and you have a recipe for ultimate cheese.

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>>46053783
>I wouldn't mind autodestruction if boxed in (enemies in front, both flanks and rear)

I wouldn't mind that rule either, if only because it never fucking happens and thus wouldn't change the game. Although it would make Kislev lists tourney winners the world over, which would be nice.

>>46053838
I'd say three sides, with a minimum of two ranks of models or Monstrous type rules attacking each side.

If you took so few models or only flimsy models other than the Death Star that you can be hit by three sides at any point, you only have yourself to blame.

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>>46054091
The thing is, it's damn cheap and easy for some armies to get a ton of units with two ranks (I'm looking at you, Skaven and Goblins), whereas other armies like WoC have a much harder time getting those numbers or skirmishers to defend their flanks, and Bretonnia would be entirely boned because even if your charge succeeds, that unit is now buried in the enemy ranks and easily squished, and your whole army is based around charging deep into the enemy.

It would massively swing the balance of the table in favour of horde armies, where people would try to stack up LD bonuses to get their dozen units of 30 Skavenslaves to envelop the enemy.

>>46053644
That's not what you were doing and no one ever said that.

>>46053801
You've confused white lions with PG in the points cost, white lions are thirteen points each.

They also benefit a great deal from most magic lores, there's no justification for lions and sword masters not being 15-16 points a piece even without the option for a BOTWD

>>46053329
>>46053380
Kensei version is idiotic, but WHFB one is lacking as well
flank/rear doubling/tripling amount of attacks was one of things I actaully liked in KoW

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>>46054279
Yes, I was actually. Tell me where I said its not fluffy to play a set list.

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>>46051771
Here >>46054667
>Being fluffy, only getting units you like/that fit that fluff, not tailoring your army every time and having customised/converted units is not the same as fielding the exact same force all the time and only playing a specific point value.

>>46053801
>No real weakness.

T3 and 5+ are quite the weakness

I mean Lions are strong but no weakness is ridiculous. Fucking core Nurgle Warriors beat the shit out of them

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>>46054740
Yes, that is where I was pointing out playing a set list is not the be all and end all of fluffy wargaming.

As should be obvious from the several times I said its daft to say playing a set list is the only way to do so. I never said it wasn't fluffy to do that.

>>46054236
I suppose you'd need to give certain things a rule that ignores it.

But only for intentionally low pop armies or troops with a low maximum unit size.

For fluff, make it like those troops were trained specifically with being outnumbered in mind. Core models, monsters, things meant to be durable, stuff like that. The designated anvil models.

You could really emphasize some models that are generally low tier like Slayers with it.

>>46054363
Lions should cost 19, Phoenix should cost 18, Swordmasters should cost 16.

Lions should lost access to a magic standard. They're woodsmen, having a huge fucking 60 pound flag to hold upright while nimbly leaping through branches is ludicrous.

Swords should have an option to upgrade to Heavy Armor for 2 points each, but reducing their M by 2.

Banner should only be allowed to be taken by the BSB, and should only provide 4+ save against magic, 3+ against magic attacks and only affect up to 20 models at most. Give a second 100 point Saphery flag that makes the unit immune to miscasts, there's no reason Caledor should have the magic enabling flag theme.