Loyalists

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He was always the best of us.
The brightest of them all, and when the time came, he died for our sins.

>>45956290
nope. he would have turned but some apocathary saved him from damnation. Sorry you lose Blood Anglefag

In before ALfaggots post their shitty meme primarch.

>>45956212

Failed with the 1st post. Dude's got a full Great Company of unsanctionned mutants.

1st and best Legion about to fix that, tho.

>>45956309
The apothecary, who believed in sanguinius.
Sanguinius believed in him, that believed in Sanguinius. He was the best god figure apart from Isha.

also
>primarchs with the emperor in the barge
>Sanguinius
>Dorn

and thats all I have to say.

Sangy, Guilliman, Russ, Ferrus, and Dorn are the primarchs who could never turn

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>>45956348
>1st legion
>loyal

not sure i have enough reaction images for this heresy

>>45956354
>>primarchs with the emperor in the barge
>>Sanguinius
>>Dorn

in other words the disposable ones

>>45956364

1st, best and loyalest of all loyalist.
cry harder, furfag

>>45956348
>full Great Company of unsanctioned mutants

Who still stay loyal and fight for the Emperor despite living in the Warp for 10,000 years.

Meanwhile, every other legion's successor gets sent into the Eye as a mass penitence crusade by some heretical pontiff and every single one dies or turns traitor except one.

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>>45956391
>THE FALLEN DON'T EXIST
>OUR PRIMARCH IS REALLY, REALLY LOYAL

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>>45956378
>furfags are this mad their shitty primarch was too busy burning books and driving loyalists into the arms of chaos to actually help the imperium.

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>>45956328
Speaking as an AL fag myself - even taking Legion into account, Alpharius himself was never truly loyal to the Emperor, though some of the Alpha Legion were. Legion's conceit is that the reason the Cabal approached Alpharius to begin with was because he'd been teaching his officers to consider worst-case scenarios up to and including the fall of the Imperium. There's a scene midway through the book where Alpharius (actually Omegon) and a couple of the top AL officers have dinner with the Imperial officers of the expedition they've just joined, and the army officers are shocked when the space marines casually discuss how nothing lasts forever et al.

I mean, it's still shitty pseudo-philosophical mumbo jumbo that basically exists as a hasty window dressing to justify the book's retarded ending, but it's there. Alpharius' first loyalty was always to himself.

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>>45956460
>it's called the Alpharius fastball

Cringeworthy as fuck tbqh. Also Omegon stayed loyal and founded the Gray Knights

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The Emperor's 'Get Shit Done' man

>>45956581
That's not Leman Russ though.. Who was the Emps/Malcador's go to man when they needed to do shit? Who was selected to kill Magnus and Horus? Not Dorn and the fists

>>45956636
>magnus becomes a demon primarch
>horus mortally wounds the emperor and makes the imperium the hellhole it is now.

Nice going Leman Russ. It would have been better if the yiffs had turned traitor and the thousand sons remained loyal.

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>>45956636
When there was boring, gruelling, yet vital urban or siege warfare to be waged, and the other Legions where too busy chasing glories, Dorn picked up the slack.

When The Emperor need a Legion to change their homeworld, sacrificing their culture and heritage so Terra would be better defended, he choose Dorn's sons.

When The Emperor prepared to board the Vengeful Spirit, he choose the Imperial Fist to be his honour guard when he faced the greatest threat to The Imperium.

When the Emperor needed an impregnable fortress built, he went to Dorn, because he had compleate faith that the palace that would be constructed would be the most fortified in the galaxy.

While Russ was content drinking and eating on a frozen ball of ice filled with mutants, Dorn knew he could do so much more. When The Emperor came to Inwit system, he did not find a man who was filled with arrogance and alcohol, boasting about his greatness. Instead he was greeted with the respect he was due, by a man who had already conquered his star system and had turned the worlds to production of the supplies needed for galactic conquest, forging great starships, with the centrepiece being a relic of the Dark Age of Technology and the largest warpship in The Imperium.

Russ was good a fantastic fighter, this is unquestionable, but that was all he could do. When The Emperor needed to destroy a world, or in some cases a Legion, he'd ask Russ, but when their was something he needed doing that required an ounce of planning or thought, he went to Dorn, because while he may not have been his father's favourite, he was the son that was trusted most, and more importantly, the most loyal. Not loyal in the way so many people shitpost about the Russ or the Lion, but actually loyal, unquestioningly following his orders, regardless of what he though of them, because he had complete faith that no matter how gruelling or thankless the task, it was all part of The Emperor's plan, and that was enough for him.

>>45956212
He would never turn his back on the Emperor because the fucker suckerpunched him once already when they first met so he learned not to

>>45957358
>When there was boring, gruelling, yet vital urban or siege warfare to be waged, and the other Legions where too busy chasing glories, Dorn picked up the slack.
Actually that was the Iron Warriors. You know this because it's the specific fucking reason the Iron Warriors rebelled, because Horus stuck them with the shit details to grind them down

>>45956442
Because Russ knows his place and does as he is requested, as opposed to Magnus being told "stop using magic, it's dangerous and you'll fuck something up" followed by Magnus using magic and fucking up the emporers latest project, dooming humanity.

>>45957535
Russ is nothing more than a simpleton whose sole contribution to the Horus Heresy is lifting his tail for a better Wolf.
>Emperor's executioner
>gets knocked the fuck out by Mowgli

Since this seems like the right place to ask, which of the traitor legions had the most members stay loyal to the imperium when the heresy came. I'm not too well versed in HH era fluff but I've heard some things from around here that suggest that it MIGHT have been the iron warriors, but I'm not sure if that's true

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For the Emperor.

>>45957663
Probably the death guard, everyone under Nathaniel stayed loyal.

>>45957729
Follow up question then. What happened to those who didn't betray?

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>>45956427
Too bad, it's canon. Stay assmad furfag.

>the dauntless few
>guilliman
>Russ
>sanguinius
>ferrus

This is the only right answer.
Every other primarch is either a traitor or a sycophant

>>45957792
Khan's loyalty lied with whoever was the most human.

Khan is #1 primarch.

>>45957408
A fair point, though Dorn's legion was also called upon many times for their seige breaking and keeping abilities in 30k

>>45956391
>>45956348
why are DA players consistently such unbridled fags?

>>45957805
Khan was loyal only to himself. He didn't turn traitor only because he thought it was a fucking stupid idea, not out of love for the emperor or the imperium

>>45957744
During the heresy they went back to their legions original colour schemes if possible and fought alongside loyalists. Afterwards they were brought into new chapters, made black shields or killed.

>>45957853
It's their literal lore, they're based of a poem about being a fag

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>>45956212
I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.

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>>45957853
Because we're the best, we know, and you are too butthurt to accept it.

>>45957878
Too bad your sons don't share your opinion on this and now are more traitorus than the original fallen, right L'oréal?

>>45956391
My army is Dark Angels. I am pretty much a DA-fag.

The First Legion has a loyal Primarch. But I don't think we can claim to be the loyalest *Legion*, because a chunk of our Legion betrayed our Primarch.

Lion El Jonson: loyal as fuck. Utterly shit at managing his legion.

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>>45957892
That's a pretty mean thing to say man.

>>45957890
>Dark angels
>the best
>teamkilling fucktads
>complex of shame bigger than the emperor's cock
>forget their oaths for the sake of thier own agenda
>more brooding tham IF
>more arrogant than SW
>the best
DA were intetesting when they had that native american theme going on. Now they're just failed Black Templars

>>45957913
Truth hurts, but is sometimes necessary

>>45957928
The First Legion led the first and greatest push during the Great Crusade, and was the Emperor's actual spearhead in both the Unification Wars and the Northern Crusade. The Dark Angels sacrificed half their fucking Legion too to save the Northern Imperium from annihilation.

Plus when it comes to combat, plasma spam >>> everything else.

>>45957892
You asked about loyal Primarchs, not loyal Legions.

>now are more traitorus than the original fallen

No. Whether the Dark Angels are traitors is a complicated question, involving how legitimate the delegation of authority from Emperor to the High Lords/Inquisition is viewed.

(Guilliman never actually got permission for his grand reorganization of both the Legions and the High Lords from the Big E and it is not unreasonable to dissent from it while viewing yourself as loyal to the Emperor)

But, yes, from many perfectly legitimate points of view, the Dark Angel's secrecy and black ops have crossed the line into treason.

But *more* treasonous than the original Fallen? The "let's harness the power of daemons to declare Caliban's independence from the Imperium"-Fallen? Not a chance. The Dark Angels are maybe (OK, OK, probably) guilty of petty treason. The Lutherites committed high treason and betrayed humanity to Chaos while they were about it.

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SIGISMUND

>>45957720
His case is so complex even Tzeentch has a headache with it.

>>45958016
But he's not a primarch, anon
And he got an ugly ass model

>>45957729
It was the iron warrior due to them being garrisoned everywhere, so they simply weren't exposed to the bulk legions fall.

Ironically, the legion being forced to be garrisoned off in little groups and effectively reduced to security guards is a big reason Perturabo turned.

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>>45956212
Yes completely loyal, 100%, purest boys in the business. Disregard any slander you may of heard about me trying to leave Terra to it's doom and make my own empire with blackjack and hookers.

>>45956636
Lol. Why do Space Wolf fans never know the lore?

Russ was sent by Horus to kill Magnus, not the Emps. So on that whole most loyal thing are you sure he wasn't just obedient?

>>45958209
They would have done it anyway. They'd have taken the slightest excuse to go after Magnus.

>>45957837
Khan is always #1 because we know the least about him (well, we know less about the Alpha Legion but they don't could because they barely exist), and hes loyal. Was on Terra during the Siege of the Imperial Palace.

>>45958257
Lets pretend for a moment that Horus DIDN'T trick Russ into fucking Magnus over, and Russ still nuked him.
>Hey dad, uh... remember how you wanted me to arrest Magnus and bring him to Terra? Well ah... I mean, he didn't put up any fight what so ever. He turned off all the orbital defenses and didn't warn his legion or his people that we were coming. But ah, some words were said and I KINDA burned the entire planet and murdered him.
>Oh come on! He had it coming!
>Russ is then executed for murdering his fucking brother

>>45958209
>Russ was sent by Horus to kill Magnus, not the Emps
He was set by the Emperor. Horus changed the order from 'arrest' to 'execute'. Horus was also Warmaster and had full authority from the Emperor to change the order by virtue f that position. Learn the lore yourself.

>>45958314
If I remember correctly, Horus didn't change the Orders, he just told Russ that the Emperor changed his mind.
Because the Emperor out ranks Horus and there for Horus cannot change the orders.
Do you honestly think that Russ is so stupid that he'd favor Horuses orders over The fucking Emperors?

>>45958314
Are you being serious? You couldnt understand that was the point of my post.

It even says
>Russ was sent by Horus to kill Magnus
What fuck you even quoted it. Trying that hard to find something wrong with someone's post is just sad Anon.

>>45958312
This is what has never been justified about what happened at Prospero.

The Wolves wanted to end the Sons. They betrayed their Emperor when they allowed themselves to be used so easily by the Artch-Traitor.

>>45958415
To be fair, Russ isn't all that smart.

>>45958132
to be perfectly fair Guilliman is a lot better at running an empire than the Emperor.

>>45958428
Depends who you ask. A lot of SW fans will argue that Russ was just 'pretending' to be a savage warmonger. Its hilarious when they try but I've seen it often enough.

>>45958437
Guiliman was meant to be the Emperors statesmen. All of the Primarches had some purpose they were meant to serve after the GC.
Accept maybe Argon. I think he might have had to be put down.

>>45958440
They are entitled to their option.
They are wrong.
But they are entitled to be wrong.

>>45958449
Never quite understood why the emperor let Angron live.

or for that matter why he just seemed to dump him off with his legion like "welp he's your problem now faggots!"

if your going to "rescue" him why not go through the trouble of trying to get him rehabilitated or explaining yourself to the guy after you left his friends to die.

>>45958496
The Emperor needed Argon to be a bull dozer. The World Eaters were not like the others legions, as their name implies. They didn't conquer worlds, that destroyed them.
I have little doubt that the Big E would have had Angron lobotomized or something had the Heresy never broken out.

>>45958496
Because he knew that the nails would kill him around the end of the crusade, so Angron wouldn't be a problem in the long run.

>>45957843
Which was why Pertuabo hated Dorn, Dorn got half the credit for the shit he was also good at and that fired up his autism fierce

>>45958526
they were called the war hounds before Angron met them.

>>45958040
he is honorary primarch.

>>45958532
now i know hindsight is 20/20 but i think common sense should have told the big E that might end badly.

i mean Chaos aside, i don't think giving a frothing at the mouth psychopath superhuman who has probably voiced his resentment of the emperor a number of times a legion of loyal slightly less psychotic supermen is that good of an idea.

>>45958496
>Emprah
>Good parenting

Pick one and only one

I've got it
I finally figured out who is the worst Primarch


FUCKING ALL OF THEM WERE AWFUL
Thanks for playing.

The debate rages on.

http://strawpoll.me/6927873

>>45958702
>http://strawpoll.me/6927873
Poor Mort.

>>45958725
Does this make him the worst?

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>>45958496
>>45958602
Well, even pre-novel Emperor supposedly thought that it didn't matter if his commanders were loyal to him so long as they were loyal to the guy who was loyal to him.

>So close did Mortarion appear to be to Horus, in fact, it is believed that at least two of the other Primarchs, Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines and the ever watchful, ever taciturn Corax of the Raven Guard, approached the Emperor with concerns about where the master of the Death Guard's loyalties lay. The story of his allegiance to the Emperor won through his own failure was by then well-known, and anyone with even a passing familiarity with Mortarion knew that the pallid Primarch chafed at it. The Emperor is said to have dismissed their concerns with a wave; loyalty to Horus was de facto loyalty to the Emperor.

>>45958742
From a design perspective most definitely.

>>45958753
I feel as though everything bad in Warhammer could have been prevented if the Emperor had just fucking read his kids a bed time story a few times.

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>>45956307
What a shame

>>45958767
The Emperor didn't give a shit about he 'sons'. In Horus he found a kindred spirit and friendship it seems but wiht the others? No not really. His mistake was not trusting Horus more however so I guess your point still stands.

>>45958767
true but part of the blame also lies on the sons for still acting like fucking children when they are already 200+ years old.

you don't see the Lion or Guilliman whining for attention from the emperor.

>>45958897
Its funny that you say that when both the Lion And Guilliman were pissed that they didn't get the job whilst the Emps worked on the webway project.

>>45958962
only the Lion really seemed pissed about it.

from what i gathered from the HH books Guilliman pretty much already knew he wasn't going to get the job. sure he was probably the most qualified but Guilliman has the self awareness to know that most of his brothers resented him.

but going back to your statement, being annoyed you were passed over for a promotion is not really the same thing as Lorgar or Perturabo crying about how daddy didn't love him.

>>45958767
You and almost all shitheads in threads like this make the mistake to believe that the emperor wanted "sons". He didn't. He has no human affection to primarchs. To him, they're not even people. They are weapons, tools, extensions of his will, but never people. He did try to relate to them as a father with his sons, but it was just to make the primarchs feel at ease. The emps did not care about them not because he was a bad father, but simply because he never actually considered the primarchs as living beings with a mind on their own.
Primarchs, along with space marines, are not people. They are weapons, and whatever they feel or think or want does not matter, as long as they do their only job

>>45958990
Lorgar and Pert both had good reasons to turn in mind mind haha. I swear I'm not just disagreeing with you for the sake of it.

Lorgar and Pert both wanted things outside the scope of being the Emps creation. Pert wanted to be an Engineer and instead he got to grind fortresses into the ground whilst stringing his army across the galaxy.

Lorgar was just spiritual and could only respect ultimate authority form 'God'. When the Emps proved unworthy to him he turned to others, this should have been obvious to the Emps but I guess not.

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>>45957890
>Weren't there for the siege of Terra
Automatic disclosure from being the best, fuckboi.

>>45958440
Read wolf king.

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>>45958767

>>45959002
>Primarchs, along with space marines, are not people. They are weapons, and whatever they feel or think or want does not matter, as long as they do their only job

So close, yet so far. They demonstrably are people; that is why the Emperor treating them as tools worked so poorly. Yes, the Emperor treated the Primarchs as tools. In doing so, he fucked up and set in motion the eventual destruction of everything he'd built.

>>45958440
Well SW fans are so virulent that whatever they want to make their wolf faggot primarch the bestest at everything will be retconned into history.

Russ' entire history has slowly been contorted into "actually all of his flaws are secret ploys and anything he did wrong wasn't his fault." or whatever because furries can't love a character who isn't a perfect snowflake.

>>45959002
He was literally torn to pieces and super sad about Horus' betrayal and Sainguinius' death you fucking idiot.

He was just a millenias old recluse who couldn't express his affection for them and put it second to his furtherment of mankind.

>>45959229
BUT HE FUCKING DID
He helped Corax continue his revolution, but kidnapped Angron away from his'
He personally schooled Vulkan for years, but almost never say Angron
>But he send its best medics to tend to his nails!
Everyone knows those apothecaries couldn't get shit done. If there was ANYONE in the fucking galaxy capable of removing those nails, it was the Emperor
And did He even met Alpharius?
Or cared about Kurze's mental health? That guy was fucking nuts, doesn't matter if he's immortal or not, you don't really sweat out a mental illness you know?
What about Magnus? The Emperor always knew how to stop flesh change, but never said anything.
I guess it's easy to take shit for granted when you are nigh-omniscient, but you just need but a glance at the carrion lord on his golden chair to know he did some stuff wrong.
Lots of stuff.

>>45959537
*saw Angron

>>45959537
That's because crashing the Imperium was all part of his plan. Gotta build up enough of a galactic imprint to make a Human chaos god that isn't a pussy ass faggot like the Eldar' Slaanesh.

>>45959584
How about killing the remaining Eldar like >>45956460 suggests? They're a DYING race, they're on a silver plate ready to be crushed under imperial boots. There may be more humans on a single sector than Eldar in the whole galaxy

>>45959646
because elves are nice, silly!

except if they had picked up angron, the galaxy would be far better.

Lion and Khan are two of the best,they went throught situations that would make others fall and remained loyal

>>45959665
khan was even better because instead of focusing on 1 man, he focused on humanity.

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>>45959657
I don't like that tone mister. Not one bit

>>45959665
Khan is one of the vaguest primarchs so he's one of the best because we can project our positive ideas for why he was loyal. Minimal actual fluff to ruin the mystique for us.

>>45959646
> Comorragh

>>45959709
That was including Comorragh. A single Hive world has more people than all of Comorragh

>>45959439
That's not because of any kind of affection. He was desperate because he has seen how his own creation, made from his own genetic code, essentialy his will made manifest, hadf betrayed him.

He didn't have any affection towards his sons, except maybe horus and sanguinius, but as example tools. He cared about them the same way you care about your favourite guard dog

>>45959685
no seriously.
They are the reason angron is the mess he is in.

I read a post (or maybe it was a link to something larger) about someone postulating a universe where all of the loyalists turned traitor and all of the traitors stayed loyal. I don't remember much about it but it sounded neat and the guy put in enough effort to make most of them sound at least somewhat plausible, though I recall there was a little bit of stretching required for Angron and Dorn.

Personally I'd put Dorn out there as the most loyal primarch, and this is not really coming from a Dornfag its just sort of his hat.

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>current year
>needing a primarch

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>>45959735
I liked the part of you suggesting they didn't do anything to Angry ron (hillariously, their stupid premonitions became a self-fullfilling prophecy), but elves being nice...the Salamanders and White Scars have many reasons why they want those pointy ears dead.
Also, they're obnoxious as fuck

>>45959779
Don't you already have Omegon?

>>45959782
All they had to do was pick babby angry ron up and adopt him. Then they would get a free immortal warrior beholden to them.
also
>salamanders
>killing the planet where men and exodites were living peacefully
Even vulkan knew that it was a bad idea. The emps had to give him a pep talk for that.

>>45959790
i was under the impression GK come from Emps

>>45959790
Weren't the GK founded by loyal marines from the traitor legions?

>>45957720
>me in the left.jpg

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>>45959865
>>45959892
Back on the Heresy, Corax's legion was badly mauled, and he asked the Emperor for help.
He gifted him the location of the ORIGINAL gene seed to make the primarchs, so that Corax could rebuild his legion
But the Alpha legion fucked things up, contaminated half the geneseed and stole the other half
Now, Primarch gene seed would have been very good for the traitors, isn't it?
Except that they never got any.
And back on Paramar, a world Horus sent Alpharius to capture but he pretty much razed to the ground, he had responded to Horus "the devil is not mocked", meaning that being both traitor didn't mean they were on the same side.
And how does Omegon's armour look like?
Plain, unpainted grey
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Omegon

Just a friendly reminder that Alpharius faked both his heresy and his death. He remains a faithful sextuple agent.

>>45959860
Humans were duped into adoring the Eldar. It wasn't equality. The very purpose of the Great Cusade was to liberate those mankind worlds yoked by the alien...even if they didn't know it or didn't want to.
Mankind must be man's, not xenos', not chaos'

>>45960013
He's actually working for the Tyranids

>>45960004
omegon might be Janus, but the geneseed is definitely emps.

>>45960023
fucking hell, angron was right.

The emperor literally was a slaver clad in gold.

>>45956581
Funny, in polish 'rogal' translates to a large croissant

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>>45960047
You ever doubted him?
I like ADB, before that I just saw Angron as "aaaw muh nails". But he says the truth.

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>>45960080
Dorn confirmed to be a traitor siding with the Necrons

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>>45960033
>Alpha Legion are one big Genestealer cult
>that's why they're all bald
>also the truth behind the "mutation in the gene-seed" Index Astartes mentioned

>>45957853
Cause most of them are new and just started with the dark vengeance box. Granted wolf players are equally bad. They deserve each other.

>>45960176
anon, plz stop posting pics of unmasked Alpharius, thank you.
Also, could someone turn off that Pharos? That's a little too hard on the eyes

>>45956460
Man, that greentext is dumb. The whole point is that even with Alpharius on The Emperor's side, things would've turned out the same. How realistic that is is a matter of debate, but that was the eldar's point; with or without the alpha legion, the heresy would end with The Emperor killing Horus, or Horus killing The Emperor

>>45960203
Alpharius is a chair?

>>45958415
Why are all TSfags disingenuous idiots who haven't read the books?
Russ DIDN'T want to kill Magnus, he even tried to contact him through standard means, and when that failed because Magnus wasn't picking up the phone, he tried through Hawser (not realizing he wasn't a hidden one at all, but still)
Magnus even said that when they fought beneath Prospero's burning skies Russ had grief in his voice and tears in his eyes

>>45960237
>things would've turned out the same
No they fucking wouldn't have,
Alpharius would have stopped Horus being wounded, would have sniffed out Lorgar, all of which would have allowed the Emperor to complete the webway project and make humanity stop replying on the warp

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>>45960237
>the eldar's point

The only eldar contribution was afterward:

>Slau Dha stepped forward to face Alpharius. The Astartes followed him with their weapons, but he ignored the threat.

>‘Well?’ he asked, in halting, thickly accented Low Gothic. ‘What is your response, mon-keigh? Do you have the strength to make this choice, or are you just as weak and self-serving as the rest of your vermin species?’

>Alpharius gazed at the autarch levelly. ‘I stand for the Emperor,’ he replied. ‘In all things, I am loyal to Him, and I cannot break that bond. He has many great ambitions, and the noblest of intentions, but I know that above all else, He is determined to stand firm against the rise of Chaos. He has always known the truth of it. The overthrow of the Primordial Annihilator is His greatest wish. So what I do, autarch, from this moment on, I will do for the Emperor.’

>Slau Dha nodded. He turned and walked away.

>>45957744
Mixed bag. Some had enough people to vouch for them that they could remain with the Imperium.

After the Heresy, but before the formation of the Chapters, many joined other institutions. A lot of them became founding members of the Inquisition, to stop shit like that happening again.

Some were folded into the other Legions. After Guilliman broke the Legions up into Chapters, some of them ended up joining/founding the new Chapters.

Some didn't join the Imperium. Either salty after everything that happened, or just didn't think they'd be believed. So they went off on their own.

Some went to ground long enough, then folded themselves back into the Imperium as Chapters of 'Lost Foundings' or something. *cough*Blood Ravens*cough*

Some fucked off to uncharted regions and built their own empires.

Some /tried/ to rejoin the Imperium but were just killed.

Then a lot of them tried to do one of the above, but were corrupted and fell to Chaos anyway.

>>45960352
Aight, that was point of the guy that said it, whatever his name was. Been a while since I've read that book. Prediction was still made by the eldar in the first place, no?
>>45960335
What makes you say that?

>>45960391
>What makes you say that?
Because Alpharius was told of Chaos' plan.
If he stops Horus being wounded, and if he had sniffed out Lorgar, and kept an eye on the weaker links, Chaos is denied long enough for the project to be completed

>>45960408
I forget, was the warp actively messing with communications/transport by that point? I'm pretty sure Chaos could stop people getting to the planet where Horus got stabbed if they really put their wills to it.

But I probably don't remember enough about the books to be able to make a proper argument, just that knowing about something doesn't mean being able to stop it.

>>45960470
I don't think they have that much power, because as Horus says, they still rely on mortals to do their bidding.
And if he arrived too late, and Horus was already traitor, he would've committed the ultimate sacrifice and assassinated Horus, even if it meant that he would've been condemned a traitor

Robot girlyman.

>>45956212
Russ would've fallen, given more time, the sociopathic man-child.

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>>45956348 #
>implying gw would faction kill any faction with such large miniranges as sw
>mfw ultramarines are more likely to die if heads on a chopping block and profits come to a standoff
You stupid fuckbois and your fanwank, always overlooking the profit bottom line.

'Codes, everyone knows 3rd edition spacewolfs were the most viking badasses with wolf motif non furries evar
And so metal non brooding emo everyone and Yer mom would bow to suck some viking cock
Keep Yer space yifs, I got spess vikings who shun the new ways

>>45957663
Death guard and I think the World Eaters were second. and by "Second" I mean sending tons of dudes to Istavaan III

>>45960749
What the fuck does this even mean

>>45960861
Space wolves have a large range of unique miniatures, if the space wolves truly die for any reason, those miniatures now become unsupported, a whole factions worth of miniatures will stop selling as there's no reason to buy minis for a dead faction.
The vanilla space marines line is compatible for nearly every other space marine faction, if a vanilla chapter were to die, the miniatures can still sell
>if ultrasmurfs die, the vanilla space marine range can still sell for every other chapter, if wolves die, no other faction can claim space viking werewolf miniatures. Financing 101

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Any Primarch who joined Horus is immediately discounted even if they did it for the emperor

Any Primarch who let themselves get killed or captured are also discounted

Any Primarch who fucked off for no apparent reason leaving the Imperium to fend for itself are also discounted

Anyone who grabbed power during the HH is DEFINITELY discounted

In truth, everyone knows who the most loyal Primarch really is.

>>45957588
Other than beating up the nerd kid of the family Russ never won a single fight against any Primarch.

He was the Emperor's Executioner.

I'm not sure if that makes Russ or Big-E look more stupid.

>>45961700
Even Magnus nearly beat him and the exact fight describes Horus' victory as a result of interference and then blind luck. Admittedly Magnus has bullshit foresight powers or whatever even if he can't mind nuke Russ to death like he normally could.

Russ a shit. The best he ever did was stalemate The Lion. Though it wouldn't surprise me if everything will be retconned such that Russ wins every fight sooner or later.

>>45961700
>nerd kid of the family
Don't kid yourself, with psychic powers unchecked Magnus would've been the most powerful primarch.
Accounting for the SoS dampening of his powers he still would have been librarian tier.
Although Russ did win due to a lucky strike

>>45961732
If I was in charge of GW or BL or whatever I would declare all of the HH series to be non-canon. What could have been an epic story of betrayel and cosmic power struggles with tragic heroes and sympathetic villains turned into a game of pass the idiot ball.

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>>45956290
>has chaos looking eyes all over his armor
>wasn't going to turn

>>45957854
Because Chaos is a stupid fucking idea. Khan had common sense.

>>45961748
There's no "Would have been."

Magnus was the most powerful Primarch until Horus went into the Hyperbolic Chaos Chamber. The magic bullshit he could do dwarfs everyone else in sheer power, even if it didn't necessarily manifest itself in making him the best in a fight.

I'd like to see Russ throw a fucking Titan.

>>45961834
But it also has to be said that the Imperium has no shortages of stupid ideas.

It makes you wonder if any other primarchs had been given the Logar Treatment how many of them would have stayed loyal to the Emperor, Imperium or the ideals upon which the Imperium was founded.

>>45961881
Magnus got close to Lorgar treatment -- constant bullshit from his brothers and discouragement of his superpowers -- and stayed loyal it pretty well until Russ (via Horus, I know wolffags DIDNU NUFFIN) literally burned and killed everything he cared for and it was either turn traitor or die.

>>45961700
Emperors Executioner is a title Russ took up because he thought that was supposed to be his job because its implied the Emperor had him kill two of his brother Primarchs. But Russ repeatedly shows he doesn't even want to be a killer and eventually does say fuck that to it when the Alpha Legion nearly crushes his Legion.

>>45962079
It WAS his job, he just didn't like it because nobody wants to hang out with a kinslayer

>>45962155
If he was designed by the Emperor to be a kinslayer why would he desire brotherhood with the other Primarchs?

>>45962259
If the primarchs were designed as generals why was Lorgar a priest?
If the primarchs were designed as master tacticians why was Angron a retard?
It's because the Emperor had no control where Chaos dropped them and probably intended to teach them their roles as they grew up

>>45962307
Exactly? Its because of influences from their worlds. All the Primarchs had specializations. Lorgar was probably supposed to zealously spread the Imperial Truth but instead got raised by a Chaos cult. Angron would have been an unstoppable champion but he got lobotomized. But if Russ was supposed to be an executioner his world would have encouraged that, not tampered with it.

Russ fell on a violent world, raised by a violent species of wolf, was found and tutored early by the Emperor and despite that he hated acting like a fenrisian, didn't want to kill his brothers, thought fighting without purpose was dumb, wanted to relocate his legion away from his home, and spiraled into depression over his job and his own Honor guard telling him he was never really meant to be the Executioner and to find a new hobby. He then turned into a humanitarian who insisted helping all the worlds under siege by Chaos despite Terra getting fucked.

>>45956212
Dorn. Just... Dorn. The guy hardly had an identity outside of his duty. His loyalty defined him.

>>45961804
Those are drops of blood. Like in the Blood Angels emblem, except without the wings.

>>45962436
Most of the worlds helped shape them for their roles (like Magnus and Prospero and Guilliman and Macragge) but some didn't (Lorgar being a zealot; Angry Ron being a lobotomized retard, Mortarion getting permanently damaged)

>>45962701
Honestly, the Emperor should have been far more trigger happy concerning these retards. Why not just execute all he retarded and damaged ones? They're a liability and potential problem. Get rid of them. Then do what Guilliman did and create new Legions based on the old ones which didn't suck and had no obvious defects, like the Dark Angels, Luna Wolves, Ultrasmurfs and Emperor's Children.

>>45962766
Would you kill your sons, even if they were retarded?

>>45962832

These people weren't his sons except in name. Between the fact they couldn't possibly relate to each other, any more than any human could relate to a Primarch, and the fact he bonded with them for basically 0 seconds, there's basically no father/son relationship to speak of.

They were more like lieutenants. Retarded lieutenants.

>>45962895
Nah each of them embodied a specific characteristic of him; whether it's Guilliman and his empire building or Magnus with his psychic powers

>>45962934

I can build a LEGO model that "embodies" my unnatural lust for dogdick; that doesn't mean I'll treat it like a child.

And I mean, we are talking about the Emperor here, Terrible Dickhead Father Supreme. If anyone could kill his sons in cold blood, it'd be him.

>>45962934
I hardly feel like vague crap like "We are both ambitious/dedicated/perfectionist/whatever." creates such a deep bond that the idea of killing them becomes unthinkable.

>>45962974
I mean, he already killed two of 'em. Why not just keep going?

>>45962701
Yeah, I'm saying Russ is one of the ones who got a bad planet. It messed up his perception of what he was supposed to be, not give him direction towards doing what he was meant for.

>>45963003
We have no idea what the context for those two were. They could have become daemon princes for all we know.

>>45962974
Building living. feeling things with chunks of your own DNA and soul is a bit more intimate then rovers red rocket in blocks.

>>45962980
Still, with the exception of Angron, each one had conquered his world, an some like Dorn or guilliman had conquered systems or sectors, which is pretty impressive

>>45956212
He too stupid for betrayal

>>45963875
Didn't Ferrus spend all his time being a boogeyman who built stuff?

>>45962661
>drops of blood
>his geneseed mutation is blood drinking
>have red armour
>have succesors literally called Flesh Tearers
Khorne had to be really dissapointed when Sanguinius turned out to be loyal

>>45964224
Naw, he just went around murdering giant monsters/groups of smaller monsters. He was a folk hero/legend to the people of Medusa and they all sought him out for council as well. He did admit to having been able to conquer the entire world and unify the Medusans, but he thought civilizing them would just make them weak so he played them against each other instead.

I think he unified a couple tribes to kill an army of cyberzombies at one point though.

>>45959753
Ah yes, the Dornian Heresy.

It's pretty aight, I guess. Horus still dies, Abbaddon becomes Sigismund, the Word Bearers get some cool looking armor, and Vulkan turns into a gross Nurgle-monster.

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>>45959186
Because we were too busy doing our fucking job Crusading Rogal Dorn, when Night Lords ambushed us and got us stuck in a warp storm.

Meanwhile you were hiding like a bitch on Terra for most of the Great Crusade and only came out to fight when traitors were raining shit on you, and STILL failed to save the Emperor's life. Had the Lion been there, the Emperor wouldn't have been mortally wounded.

>>45964688
>perpetual Nurglite

fuck that noise.

Most loyal Primarchs?
Lion.
Dorn.
Ferrus.
Magnus.
Sanguinius.

>>45957775
Poor poor furfags can't even throw the 'but but your Primarch is a traitor!!' Shit anymore... what will they bitch about now?

Mildly off-topic but does anyone have those quotes from Angron that ends with 'I'd take the slaving bastard's head'?

>>45957837
Truth.

>>45956307
This. No other Primarch has had their loyalty tested to the same extent.

>>45957928
> Failed black Templars
Are they even a thing anymore? They don't even have a Codex.

>>45956354
>>45956355
>>45956378
>>45957358
>>45957843
>>45959186
>>45959753
>>45962547
Pretty sure Dorn takes the cake here.

>>45967148
>Magnus
>More loyal than Corax, G-man, Vulkan, Russ (Who might have been a semi-illiterate barbarian, but he was pretty loyal)

>>45968331
Did Vulkan's society have literature? Pretty sure they were bronze age humans stuck getting raided by Deldar.

>>45957775
That's actually pretty fucking epic. Shitty of the lion to strike at that moment though. Can't fault his loyalty, but perhaps his honor could use some work.

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>>45968557
>Did Vulkan's society have literature?
I guess.

>>45957837
>>45967290
Just out of curiousity why do you say that? Didn't he spend 98%of his time during the crusade and the heresy dicking around doing his own thing?

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>>45956212
>continues the Great Crusade for his daddy
>helps Emperor to construct an eternal enemy for mankind
>puts up with all the shit from everyone
>helps Emperor to get on the Golden Throne, so he may get countless souls and ascend to Godhood to smite the Chaosgods
>even takes the blame for all the shit happening in the galaxy and plays the role of the Imperial Boogeyman
>even puts down the vile mutant Sanguinius

Is there any Primarch more loyal?

>>45969571
>when dindus go too far.

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>>45969571
Literally heretical text.

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hey guys

>>45969571
poisoned into treachery on davin. chaos puppet with no will of his own. horus was a tool.

>>45972242
Which was an absolutely terrible change by black library. Horus should have been motivated to be the best, to have that same drive as the emperor to conquer and rule over all.

>>45972455
>why isn't muh primarch the best
because he was a tool.
Instead of making the imperium better, he burned it to ash.

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>>45956581
Please, come get some shit done! I swear it's not a trap!

>>45972455
Lol. Yes good job, you said the same thing again instead of talking about what I said.

>>45974050
>>45973776
Ooops meant to reply to taht.

>>45958353
He covertly tampered with the message

>>45959186
>was there at the Siege of Terra
>still couldn't save the Emperor

That's even worse desu. The other guys were busy or got waylaid. What's your excuse?

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>>45956212

Why does Russ look like a retard?

It always bothered the shit out of me.

>>45957358
Which explains why he was so fucked up post-heresy. His guiding light was gone.

Still, the Imperial Fists recruit from various worlds, Inwit still included. They're practically a crusading chapter in that sense.

>>45957775
Ugh. It's the sort of scene that can only happen when the writers know how things are going to go in the future. And not in a 'I have the next series planned out' way, but in a 'this has been well established for decades' way.

I want to like this, but the language feels so pretentious, and Curze especially comes off as some cheesy villain with his rant about what we already know will be true, taking any surprise or impact out of his words. And we know that Lion El'Jonson there has a fucking temper, so no surprise he did the stabbing there.

>>45958440
As a Space Wolves fan this is something I've never got. Plenty of people assume he's Angron tier crazy which is just stupid but the dude is, by all accounts, not the brightest bulb in the box.

Thing is, when discussing who did the most for the great crusade the Luna Wolves came up with two conclusions before themselves, the Ultramarines (due to sheer numbers) and the Wolves of Fenris (which they decided "didn't count because they couldn't be compared to any sane legion")

Every toolkit needs a hammer and the Emperor had 2. Angron and Russ (also kinda Perturabo if the nail is hiding behind a wall). Russ had two strengths:
1. Completely fucking up someone's day
2. Loyalty

Angron's legion fractured when he went traitor but the Wolves of Fenris stuck to their orders (even though they really shouldn't have). It's worth mentioning that technically, by the rules they set, Russ beat the emperor (winning 2 out of 3 challenges). Dude picked his team and stuck with it to the very end. So yeah, everyone gives Russ shit for being part of one of the Heresy's biggest fuckups and that's not wrong. But Russ did wonders for the Crusade and put together an extremely loyal, dead fighty chapter.

tl;dr: Even a stupid squirrel finds an acorn if he can kick the shit out of an oak to get it.

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>>45958725
The Lion leads.
Thank you, battle-brothers.

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>>45957939
Don't you know? The Dark Angels don't like the truth. They've buried themselves in a web of lies and treachery.

And that's really the worst thing. So many secrets, and so many are kept blissfully unaware. All it would take is the upper echelons getting destroyed all at once, and the secrets would be lost forever, and the Dark Angels could be pure and noble again.

But they pursue this idiotic, damning past of theirs, even as it taints them and drives them farther and farther away from the Emperor's light as they bury their shame in the shadows.

That's why any other chapter is, at least in theory, better. Because they've aired out all their secrets, or at least have accepted them among their own chapter. The Blood Angels don't hide the truth of the Black Rage and Red Thirst from their kin.

>>45975495

Space Wolves were never in the running for most accomplished legion, only SWfags like you would ever say so. The top legions behind (or tied) Ultramarines and Luna Wolves were the Dark Angels.

>>45968742
Traitors waive the right to an honourable death, or honourable combat.

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Corvus Corax.

He failed at the Dropsite Massacre, that's true. And pre-Heresy he spent a lot of time worrying about things like morals, even to the point that he sent off a huge chunk of his Legion.

But after his Legion was badly mauled, all he wanted was a chance to fight the traitors and serve the Emperor. And even after the option that the Emperor gave him turned out tainted, thanks to the Alpha Legion, he went ahead with it anyway, because dammit the Emperor and the Imperium needed him. He felt bad for what he did afterwards, but he was still willing to do what needed to be done.

ADB said on his blog that Russ was never responsible for the two lost legions. other writers have also said that they aren't allowed to touch the two other primarchs and their legions and that when they did they got in a ton of shit for it. ADB mentioned in a post somewhere about how he got so much heat about the whole "ultramarines stealing lost legion genseed rumour" he made in The first Heretic.

>>45975724
I thought Imp Fists had more victory laurels than everyone but one other legion or something

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>>45956212
>>45967616
Yeah, gonna go with Dorn as well.

>>45975724
Dude, one of the Luna Wolves literally said they were. Wanna say it was Torgaddon but it could have been little Horus.

Point is, there is only ever one exchange I know of that actually ranks the Luna Wolves against the other legions and it mentions the Ultramarines and the Space Wolves (the Fenrisian Wolves at that time) but not the Dark Angels

>>45968986
Khan spent the start of the Heresy and majority of the great crusade doing his job on the very edge of the galaxy bringing worlds into the light of the Imperium. The Khan was the Emperors outrider, always moving about on the outskirts at speed.

>>45976019
>hur dur my BL some random LW faggot said so

And literally every database and wiki says the top legions are Ultramarines, LW, and DA. What does it say about the SW legion?

Most conquests? Nope.

Greatest quality of life after leaving a world? Nope.

Most victories? Nope.

Greatest fights? Nope.

They have literally no accomplishments other than bringing Magnus to heel and getting rid of two legions. They did arguably the least in the Great Crusade.

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both before and after Retcon?
FERRUS MANUS

>mutilates sons into cyborgs for fathers crusade
>best freind/brother turns to chaos doesnt join him when asked...
>doesnt give in even when he just got his ass kicked by Fulgrim and still fights for the emperor
>His less then 1 hour old clones don't turn to chaos when Fulgrim with all his new slaanesh powers try and convince him
>is dead, so he never turned his back on the imperium like all the other "surviving" primarchs did

though the lion is a close second but loses out because of the whole "imperium secundus" crap

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>Most loyal loyalist
>A Primarch

You need a smaller, more honest soul for that title

>>45975763
Remember, those "tainted" brothers (1st generation Raptors, after Omegon happened) were still loyal to their other brothers, their Father, and the Emperor. And the other brothers treated their Raptor brothers no differently to any other battle brother. Except for the fact that these Raptors could only wear beakie armour.

the Whole retcon thing turned it all to shit
before lion was all "might be traitor in a comar, might be loyal in a comar, but definetly gay"
and Alpharius was "grumpy at loyalists for bullying me so now i am going to fuck them all sneaky like"

and is it just me or was the Emperor never this incompetent before the retcon
(pre stuff has Angron denying the Emperors help and wanting to die with his freinds, and then emperor teleporting him up anyways, instead of the whole raging incompetent mess we have now

>>45976745
The Raptors were essentially deformed and tainted by daemon blood, very deeply mutated. You could consider what Curze ended up doing to be a mercy killing, since apparently a bunch of them ended up turning feral post-Heresy.

>>45959002
This doesn't really track. If the Emperor wanted mindlessly loyal inhuman sdiers, why would he so heavily praise the BA and EC for being poets and artists and whatnot? Emps clearly wanted his sons to understand beauty and honor.

>>45975237
Because he is a retard?

let make an horus heresy compendium for maid rpg:
the player incarnate a primarch and try to be loved by daddy emprah

>>45957890
Why'd they go green, anyway?

>>45978345
He was only pretending to be retarded

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>>45956348

>Dark Angels
>Loyal

>>45979348
he fooled himself even.

>>45979521
well, they are taking care of mutations in the wolves.

>>45982417
Which is more than the dog-diddlers ever did.

>>45982417
>>45983677
>All the Wulfen are killed
>Suddenly the Abaddon's 13th Crusade is revealed as being 100 times bigger than previously thought, since now there aren't any more Wulfens helping Draigo keep them in check inside the Warp

Great job fucking up the Imperium, DA

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>>45956212
ya'll know who the real one is, even even stayed after Emps miss treated him. He stayed until he was about to get killed by the people who he was loyal to.

>>45984060
What?

What the fuck do wolfen have to do with Armless Abby's crusades? When the fuck did Draigo get pets?

I'm confused and fearful. Plz explain.

>>45957792
You're missing Dorn in that list as he is too a member of the dauntless few

>>45975506
I'm a blood angels and imperial fists fan, but the dark angels have pretty good reasons to cover up what happened, they felt they had no other choice and so their forefathers damned the future generations, also in legacy of caliban a deathwing terminator ascends to becoming a dreadnought but is super depressed and the emperor speaks to him in his mind and gives him pep talks and tells him to keep doing his duty, i dont know where people get this idea that the emperor was a moral exemplar, he was a genocidal warlord and offered a choice between extermination or joining him when he took over, the emperor doesnt give a fuck what kind of asshole you are just that youre on his side, also i hate standing up for dafags generally but this is the truth.

>>45985701
so clearly they havent stepped away from the emperors light as people suggest, also being secretive and whatnot makes them stronger and better suited to fit the role they do, the space marine legions all had a niche that they filled: imperial fists for siege warfare, ultramarines for empire building, blood angels shock troops, etc, the dark angels show up unexpectedly to everyone, fuck everything up, and then leave as quickly and unexpectedly as they came, making them the emperors hidden game changing hand and they do it well.

>>45985778
although im sure people who call the dark angels traitors are just trolling the dafags as i enjoy doing too since theyre all such massive autists or edgyemos, that is all.

>>45976233
Just because you started with the dark vengeance box 2 weeks ago doesn't make DA cool m8. Wolves and DA are both shit and deserve each other.

>>45986903
DA win because atleast their models are not fully retarded

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>>45986982
DA models are shit. Worst looking imperial vehicles. Dumb looking force weapons. Retarded monk cloaks. Granted I think some wolves units look worse, but dark angels are like the goofy ass marines.

>>45987172
I like the robes and some of the vehicles. Force weapons are horrible, yes.
Comparing that to SW, they got like 3 good models, 2 of them new. And the Wulfen are legit the worst models in the whole goddamn game

And DA bikes are the tits

>>45987350
Ill give you the bikes look nice. Whatever tickles your pickle I guess.

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>>45987172
Space Yiffs are still so much worse.

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>>45956212 (OP)
I'm a furfag and even I think Sanguinius is the best/most loyal primarch. Russ is obedient, not loyal. In order to be loyal you must be tempted by disloyalty yet remain steadfastly true.
Sanguinius rejected Horus' offer at saving the Blood Angel's mutation (which was the worst mutation back then, especially on perfect people like the Blood Angels). Sanguinius could've saved his beloved doomed sons. He could've been greater than Horus under Chaos. But he remained loyal, he remained true.
Russ just does what he was told to do (that whole Prospero mess) and crisis of conscience or not, he's nothing more than the Big E's junkyard dog. There's a reason Logan Grimnar is more beloved than his own primarch by everyone. Yet none is be as beloved as Sanguinius.
His loyalty is such that Russ, Lion and Gulliman named him as the heir of the imperium should Big E dies, so take that DA/SWfags, even our primarchs thinks Sanguinius is the better man.

>>45988834
>Sanguinius rejected Horus' offer at saving the Blood Angel's mutation
No he didn't.
He was ready to take the offer until the apothecary sacrificed himself

>>45984845
All the wulfen are the lost 13th great company, who pursued Maguns and the TS into the warp while they where fleeing prospero. Up until now they've been in the warp basically killing every demon and chaos worshipper they come across.
The wulfen mutation is an immune response from the canis helix to warp energies. It mutates the SW and makes them resistant to chaos taint in response

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>>45956309
He didn't realise it was turning. He was sacrificing his life to cure his sons. Sanguinius would never have turned traitor, get your facts right before you try to insult the best of men

>>45988923
You're right, forgot about that. Well, the Apothecary is the best primarch then, my bad.

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>>45987172
>gothic knights
>goofy

Opinion officially disqualified.

>>45979128
After the destruction of Caliban. They donned the colors to mourn their homeworld. And to differentiate themselves from the Fallen wearing black armor.

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>>45975495
>>45976019
Torgaddon's remark about the yiffs really shouldn't be considered proof of anything, given the context (and who's saying it).

>‘I think you’re wrong,’ Loken said.
>‘How innocent you are,’ Sigismund mocked, ‘and I thought the Luna Wolves were supposed to be the most aggressive of us all. That’s how you like the other Legions to think of you, isn’t it? The most feared of mankind’s warrior classes?’
>‘Our reputation speaks for itself, sir,’ said Loken.
>‘As does the reputation of the Imperial Fists,’ Sigismund replied. ‘Are we going to scrap about it now? Argue which Legion is toughest?’
>‘The answer, always, is the Wolves of Fenris,’ Torgaddon put in, ‘because they are clinically insane.’ He grinned broadly, sensing the tension, and wishing to dispel it. ‘If you’re comparing sane Legions, of course, the question becomes more complex. Primarch Roboute’s Ultramarines make a good show, but then there are so bloody many of them. The Word Bearers, the White Scars, the Imperial Fists, oh, all have fine records. But the Luna Wolves, ah me, the Luna Wolves. Sigismund, in a straight fight? Do you really think you’d have a hope? Honestly? Your yellow ragamuffins against the best of the best?’

Tarik's bantz aside though, there is older, and somewhat more serious, codex precedent for Space Wolves being ranked among the best - pic related:
>If Jonson was quiet he was also brave and a mighty leader of men. During the Great Crusade only he and Horus achieved a greater tally of victories than Russ. Russ, ever concerned with his honour and good name, and ever keen to tell the noble saga of his deeds, found this exasperating.

>>45956212
>>Post Primarchs that would never, EVER, turn their backs on the Emperor
>Posts a deserter who committed suicide by Eye of Terror

I guess Russ didn't think loyalty was enough of a reward. Maybe if he'd had followed his older brothers example, he would still be alive too.

>>45976501
>Hey Horus, I know yer fucking mad and shit, but I have to give you something first. It's important.
>Speak mortal, before I send your traitor soul to oblivion.
>This is called the double whammy, I only give it on special occasions. Now make like a tree and fuck off.

>>45992200
When he will come back with the apple to heal the Emperor let's see how much will your primarch will act, if he finally chooses to wake up after 10'000 years and make his legion stop being secretly heretic
Also
>older brothers
>the only brother older than him is the leader of the traitors

>b-but muh first legion
Doesn't mean shit. The primarchs are counted in the order they were found, otherwise Horus would be the 5th younger, not the older brother

>>45962832
>>45962766

Angry ron fighting cause was right but Big Douche thought otherwise.

Magnus was just Keikaku'd by Tzeentch and lost his homeworld to Leman "I'm a retard" Russ.

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>>45993521
>>When he will come back

He's not coming back. The Primarchs are strong, but they aren't invincible.

Maybe Corax could have survived in there because he knows how to stealth, but a loudmouth manchild with a superiority complex stands no chance.

The only way Russ is coming out of there with an apple is if Nurgle creates a plague of fruit zombies.

>>45994182
Hey, the wulfen survived in there fine for 10k years,

>>45956212

Alpharius doesn't trust the Emperor a damn bit. He would NEVER turn his back on the sneaky Imperial bastard.

>>45994374
>Giant mutated wolf monsters...
>Just fine

Anon I...

>>45994743
they were mutated before they went in though.
Blame Russ' shity geneseed

>>45989080
But that looks goofy as fuck anon. Youre really not helping your case.

>>45994743
Draigo also stays in the warp. Do you read any fluff or are you just a retard? Im really starting to think DA players all started playing with the dark vengeance box a couple days ago.

>>45995859
>Opinion already disqualified
>voices opinion

lol, bad taste detected

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>>45989080
Mine are bigger.

>>45995935
There's a huge difference between a grey knight, the best grey knight and mutated monsters born from genetic abnormality.

Spouting nonsense you think is relevant doesn't help your case anon... especially when you cant recognize the differences between corrupted mutants and blessed anti warp warrior.

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>>45995859
>goofy

Like I said, opinion disqualified.

>>45956581
I am fortifying this thread

>>45996498
>that pic
bahahah
>>45995936
more unpainted dark vengeance players. welcome.
>>45996311
gee I guess your right, I suppose Draigo IS better than Russ and the Lion. Green monk players crack me up. Stay in the trash with the wolves pls.

>>45995935
>Using Draigo as an example of anything except shit writing
>Draigo is deep lore now

Congratulations, you've found something worse than Primarch drama.

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>>45996631
>da player
>using dark vengeance

Fucking yuck. The only good thing about DV is the Company Master, otherwise the models are garbage. I got into Dark Angels in the 6th Edition (albeit still building the army) for the ravenwing battleforce, although as I picked up BaC for relic armor, I guess it's greenwing now.

>>45956307
>>45976423
THE GORGON IS THE MOST LOYAL

>>45957943
>The First Legion led the first and greatest push during the Great Crusade, and was the Emperor's actual spearhead in both the Unification Wars and the Northern Crusade

Do DAfags believe half the shit they spout?

>>45996631
>He is so mad

Look at the butthurt lol

>>45958209
>>45958257
>>45958312
I thought Valdor was the one pushing for Russ to kill Magnus?

>>45958526
isn't that the space wolve's job tho

>>45996885
>not knowing modern fluff

You really should read more anon. While the Lion was not found first, the First Legion was the first and greatest of the space marine legions, for they were the testing bed for all future legions. It's why the Dark Angels are generalists, and operate with "wings" like the Ravenwing. If anything they are the prototype legion.

>>45996783
>says no one not even primarchs can survive in the warp
>people point out wulfen and draigo do easily
>wah, wah you're a big dumb dumb.

>>45996963
So it's because they're nigh Grey Knight-tier Sues?

>>45996903
Just spitting the facts to the players of the two worst chapters is all.

>>45997000
No, somebody always has to be first. The Ultramarines are technically superior as Guilliman eventually surpassed the Lion in skill and power (Guilliman viewed the Lion as an older brother who he looked up to). Plus the Ultramarines ended up more numerous when the Dark Angels laid down 100,000 of their lives.

>>45961839
Imagine if emperor would actively encourage Magnus to use and train psychic powers, hell if he would help him in every way to become as powerful as possible.

>>45958440
Well several major characters have stated that Russ' "barbarian king" act was just that, an act.

>>45997095
gee, and people wonder what happened to the IInd and the XIth

>>45993521
The Primarchs were NOT found in order of Legion number. The numbers were pre-determined by the Emperor when they were still in their tubewombs. Horus was found first, while Lion (I Legion) was found eleventh. The only one I can think that was found in order was Alpharius Omegon (XX) who was found last.

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>there are people ITT that think that Russ wasn't the most loyal Primarch
>there are ''''''''''''''''''people''''''''''''''''''' ITT that think Lion El'Jonson is loyal

Reminder that Russ is the only person ever to beat the Emperor in anything. Literally the GOAT Primarch

>>45998727
Reminder that you are the only anon to ever completely ignore the OP post. Literally the only anon in history.

>>45998756
What are you ranting about bitch?

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Dorn would never turn on me. Thats why I called him back to Terra. The civil war was coming whether I wanted it or not. Its inevitable that empires will turn on themselves when they grow large through war. For an Empire forged in war is sustained through war.

>>45985701
As a DAfag, the idea of the Emperor speaking to this Dreadnought is troubling. Can we really be sure that he's the Emperor, and not some daemon? Aside from one very old short story, I can't think of any time the Emperor literally stepped out and talked to someone. That series has honestly gotten more hit and miss with each book, poor Gav Thorpe.

Anyway, the morality of the Emperor isn't really what I'm worried about. It's the morality of the Dark Angels. Secrets could be great weapons, but the secrets they hold are knives pressed against their hearts, to be overly poetic. It would be a lot better if they simply forgot about their past, not only for them, but for the Imperium as a whole. That way they could actually serve without constant fear, and properly do their duty without having to leave halfway through a campaign. I love the Dark Angels for their asethic and going out of their way to get shit done, but they're going down a dark path.

>>45989080
>power sword (with a grip meant for two hands) and power fist, no pistol
>obvious ripoff of Balthasar without anything that actually made him cool
>lol gonna put the wings on both pauldrons

This is not fucking stellar. I hate who requested this.

>>45989080
Nigga that looks retarted. For all the shit you dangle fags talk about the Space Wolves at least they don't look that dumb

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>>45999596
>ITT people with no sense of knightly taste

0/10 would not quest with

>>45999814
Closet traitor detected

>>45999942
>>45957775
>Dark Angels
>Traitors

Ayy lmao. Dark Angels haven't been closet traitors in years.

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>>46000031
They were absolved of the Lion possibly being a traitor, sure. But what if they teamkilled those Black Templars, or shot up some Imperial Guardsmen to hide a dumb secret?

As for taste, I find it odd how their codex goes on at length about how they constantly stay shrouded in robes and wear no obvious shiny adornment so that no one can really tell their ranks apart or see who's in charge, but anyone with half a brain could tell who has the most ornate armor and weird decorations - and half the time it's shiny anyway.

>>45956355
IIRC Guilliman had a hypothetical scenario wherein the five of them were basically super-friends that could trust each other implicitly.

>>45998727
>Russ is the only person ever to beat the Emperor in anything
>eating and boozing
Russ confirmed most American primarch

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>>46000205
The Black Templars weren't tk'd, the Dark Angels left the system while they were alive, albeit the BT's were stranded with no warp drive. They most likely were devoured by genestealers according to the new Space Hulk game. Guardsmen meanwhile mean nothing, as everybody from the Space Sharks to the Blood Angels fuck up the meat shields.

As for adornment, only the HQ really sticks out. Although they don't all wear robes- only members of the Inner Circle such as Veterans or Veteran Sergeants get to wear robes. Scrubs just get power armor with some adornments.

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>>46000372
You're goddamned right

>>46000316
Funny that the "creator" of The Dauntless Few is the one most suspect

>>46000372
>America
>Best at boozing
>laughingeuropeans.jpg

>>46000429
I honestly would really like to see write-up of the Imperium Secundus if Guilliman's suspicions had been right. Ten-thousand years of war between Emperor Sanguinius (as well as Regent Guilliman) and the Chaos Emperor Horus.

>>46000525
Well Sanguinius got BTFO by Horus so...

>>46000478
Who's better than the US at drinking? All 8 kinds of Euro beers are shit, and Aussies can't handle bantz for shit.

>>46000564
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

A lot, including South Korea.

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>>46000419
>Guardsmen meanwhile mean nothing, as everybody from the Space Sharks to the Blood Angels fuck up their meat shields.

But the Blood Angels have the sense to feel bad about it, since they'd only do that if their curse forced them too and are otherwise noble and generally good dudes. The Space Sharks are portrayed as absolute dicks for what they do, like the Minotaurs, but both give no fucks in that regard since they don't actually care when or where they stop, and at least they have a somewhat legitimate reason when they smash a Space Marine chapter or something. The Dark Angels only kill off their allies to keep a secret that never needed to be kept in the first place.

And in the fluff? Maybe. But on the tabletop, and in most artwork, the Dark Angels have a lot of their own crazy decorations and embellishments, robes or not. You might say the colors are muted, but there's still a lot of gold and silver, and plenty of fancy work.

>>46000604
Also, being the only group of well-known Space Marines that wear robes over armor makes you stick out a little.

>>46000564
Yes, after Sangy spent days on end fighting daemons at the Eternity Gate. Not to mention the absurdity in assuming that such a conflict would be reliably decided by hand-to-hand combat between the two leaders.

Though that does sound exactly how the HH really ended, remember that Horus was basically on the verge of defeat and lured Emps to battle as a last-ditch effort.

>>46000593
you really think your average South Korean can drink more than your average American? Asians are small people and Americans on average are large in general (inb4 fat joke). As an ex American military member it shocked me when I went to other countries how much bigger in height and muscle mass Americans were than your average foreigner.

>>46000903
The stats don't lie, and Euros still btfo Americans. Canucks, Aussies, and Bongs too. I assume it's mainly because American beer is such fucking shit.

>>45957890
Meanwhile, Cypher can not count, how many times he escaped this so called "the best" ones.

>>46001128
He has never escaped the captivity of the Dark Angels. The Supreme Grand Master let him go every time because of a dire situation only Cypher could fix, cause he's 90% most likely loyal.

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>>46000955
>american beer is such fucking shit

Nice meme, you know that Budweiser is a German recipe owned by a dutch company? American beers have been dominating beer contests for the past 20 years

>>46000640
Black Templars?

Fucking /tg/, turning a primarch thread into a beer thread...

>>46001221
99% sure Germans don't make beer out of fucking rice, and that Belgium isn't Dutch.

Really piss-poor effort.

>>46001720
It's better than it'd normally be by half.

Also, brandy is better. Good for nursing and sipping as much as drinking.

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>>46001737
Way to move the goalposts faggot.

>>46001943
>moving goalposts
>German recipes
>Actually made from rice
>Dutch company
>Actually owned by Belgians

Obviously drinking American swill has impeded your abilities to read and think clearly.

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>>46001943
>Leonardo-DiCaprio-Left-Art-Basel-Party-with-20-Models

What army?

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>>46001984
Nice strawman. American beer > yuro beer

>>46001984
The American micro-brewery scene is infinitely better than anything Europe is putting out atm.

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>>46002068
I'm not going to lie, that model gives me a raging erection. Then again, most fortifications do.

Pity they're expensive as fuck and everyone has to make do with cardboard. Or wood.