Horus Heresy General hhg

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Watching Curze terrorize Nostramo would be something worth watching right? The story of how one man decided to bring justice to one world by being the worst human being on that planet sounds up my alley.

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Threadly post about me selling Assault Cannons for all of you new BA players. $1 to $1.50 each, depending on how many I make. I'll be shipping these out around march, let me know how many I need to make.

Email me at [email protected] with questions, requests for me to make assault cannons, or just fill my inbox with BRRRRRRT.

And Goodnight everyone!

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>>45332376
You're doing Papa Sang's work, friend.

Master of the Legion is a fuckin mess.
You can only have a RoW on your primary detachment but their are references to the Row on primary and allied detachment furthermor it is said an allied detachment can habe a seperate RoW.
I'm just going eith whatever sounds better

>>45332723
It's really not that complicated.

>>45332723
Do you have at least 1000 points in an Allied Detachment. Does your Allied Detachment HQ have Master of the Legion?

Then you can take a RoW for your allied detachment.

Hey /hhg/
I just got the 2 red books 10 Cataphractii termies, 2 FW special weapons kits, and a BaC Command sprue. I'd like to use this to start a Shattered Legion 2500 point list.

Is there a loyalist Legion that is best suited to run 10 Terminators?

>>45332723
Welcome to Forge World, where there are no chainaxes and the Rogue Psyker's points don't matter. Guest star tonight is Xenos Breasts.

>>45332828
Rogue Psyker is 35 points. Look at the FAQ/Errata. Don't know what you mean about the chainaxes though.

>>45332827
Your redbooks are going to be useless by the end of this year btw.

Also all legions are suited to run at least 10 terminators. What Legions do you like?

>>45332853
I like Salamanders, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, and White Scars.

As for the books expiring, Im not worried about it. I'll get the new ones when theyre released.

>>45332888
fists and salamanders can both run stormshields so thats a thing i guess.

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>>45332723
Don't read the rule that's on pg 15 of the CAL. It's horribly worded and contradicts itself by confusing the terms "army" and "detachment" in the same paragraph Use the ruling in the most recent FAQ which is far, far more clear:

>In order for a Space Marine detachment to have access to Rites of War, it must have as part of that detachment a model with the Master of the Legion special rule. A Space Marine Legion army may only include a single model with this rule as part of their HQ choices per 1,000 points in the force. This will most commonly mean that your army will include either a Legion Praetor or a Primarch to allow access to Rites of War, and this model is also likely to be your army’s Warlord as a result.

>If your army’s Warlord also has the Master of the Legion special rule then you may also roll twice on your chosen Warlord Traits chart and select which of the two you wish to use.

>Only one Rite of War may be chosen for the army, regardless of whether multiple characters with this rule are included, and the Rites of War chosen only affect the force’s Primary Detachment. The only exception to this is that it is possible to have a Rite of War for an Allied Detachment of a large army (as the one model with Master of the Legion per 1,000 points still applies and fulfilling the terms of many Rites of War may not be possible using the allied Force Organisation chart), but this will require a model with the Master of the Legion as the HQ choice for that Allied Detachment. Effects of a Rite of War do not carry over to Allied Detachments from the Primary Detachment and vice versa.

The new "Sacrificial Offering" Rite of War does seem to violate these rules, but in this case it's a matter of specific overriding general. That specific RoW specifies that it modifies the allies in specific ways (and only those ways).

>>45333024
Missed that.
Used the other one bit this clears it up.

I'm surprised there's no 1d4chan tactic page for Blackshields. Or are the going to be included under 'space marines'?

>>45332938
>>45332888
Bear in mind that their shields work differently, though. Sally shields grant a 5++ or buff the invulnerable save of a model by +1 if it already has one; if given to a Cataphractii you'd get the expected 3++, but a Tartaros would only get 4++. They cost 10 points for ICs without terminator armor, and 5 points for any model in terminator to exchange their ranged weapon - i.e., dirt cheap.

Fists, on the other hand, just have actual storm shields - the kind that gives you a 3++ regardless. However, only models with terminator armor can buy them - 15 points for Tartaros, 10 for Cataphractii to exchange their ranged weapon.

Basically, Salamanders can get an IC in artificer armour with a 3++, but the Fists can give an entire squad of Tartaros a 3++. This is relevant because the recent FAQ allows Tartaros terminators to make sweeping advances. You have to pay a bit more to do it, but it should by obvious why this is powerful.

That said, you bought Cataphractii, and unless you want to buy third party bits or do some green stuff conversions yourself you can't buy storm shield kits from FW for 30k (unless you buy the Black Templar ones... which technically would work for Fists if you wanna go with that paint scheme).

Salamanders also have a unique Terminator unit called the Firedrakes which is one of the more powerful unique terminator squads; basically, TH/SS termies with WS5 and two wounds each. They have their own models, though.

Another option is Iron Warriors, although this gets a bit pricy. They get Cataphractii terminators called Tyrants where the entire unit has Cyclone Missile Launchers. You'll have to buy the bits to convert the missile launchers, but it's a pretty hilarious unit when you run 10.

TL;DR You should look into what each legion does and pick one based on what appeals to you from their playstyle, aesthetics and background. Pretty much everyone has terminators.

Hey guys! I'm after two things from Book VI Retribution. A shot of the new SoH RoW and artwork of scars and SoH! Many thanks!

>>45333158
If in doubt, check the FAQs. FWs makes mistakes in their books as much as GW does (if not more), but unlike GW they actually endeavor to correct and support the game with FAQs and Erratas. The older books were all written for 6th edition so there's certain assumptions about how the game works that no longer apply, and some of that stuff had to be cleaned up.

There's some pretty significant errata as well; FW has actually been trying to keep up with design and balance for HH between book releases, which is a huge breath of fresh air compared to 40k.

>>45332846
>Rogue Psyker is 35 points. Look at the FAQ/Errata.
The point I believe that anon is making is that they make downright outrageous mistakes, to the point that any little thing that seems even a little bit not-right is going to be questioned, excused, and argued about, endlessly. I can't wait for the circus when BA Asscans Galore gets changed.

"Specially trained xenos predator-breasts" is one thing, but missing the fucking points cost of a unit is another. Fixing it with an errata fixes the immediate issue, but the underlying issue remains to rear its head every new release.

>Don't know what you mean about the chainaxes though.
I presume (s)he's referring to the endless argument about what exactly is the cost for World Eaters to get chainaxes as replacements for their chainswords. If you've ever been in the HHG thread since, well - ever, you'll know that to this very day the debate is ongoing and Forge World have been totally ineffective at addressing the issue in subsequent compilations, Errata/FAQs, and even direct emailed questions.

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>>45333333
Here you are

>>45333258
There will be, but there's probably less than 100 people in the world who have the book so far. Give it a couple of weeks as people have played a few games and seen how they actually work.

I still haven't found any images of the Dark Angels rites. Can anyone share? The other rules pictures for DA weren't very complete, either.

>>45333570
>Forge World have been totally ineffective at addressing the issue in subsequent compilations, Errata/FAQs, and even direct emailed questions.

Someone already posted an email answer they received from FW 4-5 generals back. If the model doesn't have a chainsword, they have to pay for it and then may exchange it for a Chainaxe for no additional cost.

>>45333582
Thanks a bunch!

>>45333570
>"Specially trained xenos predator-breasts"
Wut?
>FW just sent an email about the chainaxes, you pay for the chainsword, then get the free chainaxe.
Side note, anyone else hyped for the Sacrificial Offering RoW. I've run my word bearers like that for a long time, nice to see the bonuses for it

>>45333731
There's some typo in one of the books. They wrote Breasts instead of Beasts.

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>>45333674
I've got the rules in full for you, didn't save the rites because I don't plan on using them.

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>>45333750

>>45332846
"Welcome to Whose Line is it Anyway, the game where everything is made up and the poimnts don't matter."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAGwNtI26w

>>45333717
There has been more than one response from Forge World on this issue (and others), they often don't answer the question at all and even when they do, they're frequently not consistent with other answers. Emailing Forge World is about as useful as houseruling it.

They get the same question plenty of times but have not bothered to include it in the recent FAQ. Book One was printed in 2012, and there have been at least three downloadable erratas and one updated compilation since then.

The point remains valid, alleged emails notwithstanding.

>>45333817
And to make it worse, they're fully capable of writing it clearly in other cases like in >>45333761

So /HHG/, what are you most interested in from Book 6 now we have some concrete facts to go off?

Pretty tempted to go for an allied White Scars force. Wouldn't fill any of the gaps in my RG army but it would look so cool

>>45334081
Currently obsessed with blackshields. I'm kitbashing some kingdom death minis to make the Nemean Reaver and some Reaver Lords.

>>45334081
mainly ironfire and the existence of phospex canister shells to make literally the entire enemy board half dangerous terrains
iron circle also makes me hard, probably have to work perty into one of my lists

>>45334081
Simply having more different and fun ways to make army lists for my Word Bearers.

As for the new armies, I am most excited for the Knights Errant. Wish someone would post them.

>>45333953
To be fair, that's extremely recent. To me, it's as if it's be very carefully written in exactly that way to specifically avoid the issue with the way that the chainaxe sentence can be interpreted.

It's abundantly clear that the Isstvan Campaign Legions in particular was literally a lazy copy-an-paste job, to the point that the style between the book 1, 2 and 3 entries varied instead of being harmonized (simple things, like the order of pages usually making the Primarch the last entry in Books 1 and 3, but between special units and unique characters in book 2; to more complex things, like Warlord being an actual special rule for compatibility with the Retinue special rule, for Book 3 unique characters, but not for Book 1 and 2 characters even when they had warlord traits).

Book 5 though was worse than lazy; it was clearly rushed. The number of serious errors is far greater than even their usually unimpressive standard. These are books that cost more than $100, would it kill them to have a proper editor? Xenos Breasts is amusing but harmless; but missing unit points costs, units exchanging weapons they don't have for the weapons they already do at a cost, and other serious errors are simply unacceptable. And then to not address those issues in the errata you're publishing anyway, is laziness; it's contempt.

Hey /tg/, I have a question regarding the Warlord Trait Master of Defence, like Saul Tarvitz has. I saw it under his entry where it says he gets Counter Attack in his deployment, but the 7th Edition rulebook just says flat counter attack. Is one of these wrong/out of date?

>>45334299
I'd say the description in the main rulebook takes priority over the specific description in his entry.

>>45334081
Still waiting to see if the rumors of Death Guard straight-up getting Rad Grenades available all of the time are true. I always ran The Reaping just for that. If it's true I'll still frequently run The Reaping for the heavy support squad spam, but it will be something I can take or not based on what I feel like playing, rather than an autotake.

Also Reaping Blow will completely change the way I play. Deathshroud used to be useless against any opponent terminators and were used as a small, inefficient anti-artificer-armor assassin unit seriously, fuck Gal Vorbak, now they're one of the best for killing enemy terminators.

>>45334374

Ok, thanks - I'm a little fuzzy on how HH was released in regards to 6th and 7th

>>45334152
>As for the new armies, I am most excited for the Knights Errant. Wish someone would post them.
Same. I want to know how customizable they are.

>>45334081
Anacharis Scoria is a motherfucker. An evil, evil motherfucker. And I love him.

Very interested in reading the Xana II fluff. In 40k it's the Dark Mechanicum's equivalent of a forge world trapped in the warp where mercenaries and chaos war bands sell human souls for daemon-possessed war engines. I'm rather curious how our friend Scoria managed to make such a mess of things.

>>45332262

Does anyone have the .pdf of the new Generic Rites of War? I thought I had it but I can only find my blackshield and shattered legions PDFs.

>>45334081
Starting to build my Dark Angels army.

Was going to aim for 1500 points while waiting for their unique units and the Lion, but I'm already up at 1000 without any troops, so we'll see how that works out.

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>>45334835

>>45334081
Dark Angels proto-Ravenwing RoW combined with some of their special rules.

>don't mind me, just flying around on my jetbike melting your armour then charging you while reducing your WS, T and I by one point.
>also eat ID anyone without EW and 2+

Anyone able to give a summary on what the Death guards new rite of war does? I lost my job recently due to oilfield lay offs, so I cant afford the new book at this point in time. Much appreciation.

Hi guys, does anyone have a pics of the profile of the new battle automata, and of the rules of the dark mechanicus?

Thx a lot. :)

Hows this 2.5k list look, just started building word bearers
Word Bearers Legion
Rite of War: Sacrificial Offering
Primary Detachment:
HQ
Erebus
Legion Centurion, artificer armor, refractor field, Primus Medicae, Burning lore, power weapon, melta bomb
Elites:
2x Apothecaries, each with artificer armour
10x Gal Vorbak, one with power weapon, sergeant with artificer and power weapon
Troops:
20x Tactical marines, additional combat weapons, sergeant with melta bombs and artificer armor
20x Tactical marines, additional combat weapons, sergeant with melta bombs and artificer armor
Heavy Support
Legion Spartan, Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite
Legion Fire Raptor, Reaper auto cannon battery
Allied Detatchment: Imperial Milita
Provenances: Tainted Flesh and Feral Warriors
Force Commander, power armor, iron halo, power weapon.
Troops:
50x Inducted Levy's, discipline collars
50x Inducted Levy's, discipline collars
Heavy Support
3x Rapier Batteries, laser destroyer arrays
Fortification Detatchment
Aegis Defense Line
The plan is to move the two levy squads up with the force commander in one as a human wave, and the rapiers to sit behind the aegis line to deal with armor. Erebus rides with the Gal Vorbak in the Spartan, the chaplain goes with one 20 man tac squad, both of them get apothecaries.

>>45335493
Sorry, changed the list a little, the Primus Medicae goes with the Gal Vorbak too.

>>45333750

Is it just me or is that a really bad set of abilities?

>>45335508
Its alright, at least you have an edge in praetor v praetor combat, and it could be nice when your tac blobs connect with your opponent. I think the lure for the 1st legion is their gear selection and their RoW selection, ideally they'll be getting one for each wing.

>>45335508
It's all in the wargear and RoW for the Dark Angels I think.

>>45335508
+3 To hit with blades is fine
enemy outnumber you at the end gets D3 victory points blows huge amounts of ass and is probably the harshest legion rule out at the moment
>>45335642
This anon has got it, wargear is sick and ROW are ok too.........

>>45335717
Yeah, their wargear is rather nice. I like how their centurions get better power swords for less than a normal power weapon costs for anyone else (granted, I don't understand why the fuck it costs 15 points for a centurion power weapon in the first place when damn near every sergeant gets one for 10).

>>45335750
The acid heavy bolters are what do it for me. Those few times you roll low for AP will be glorious.

>>45335795
>few times
its a 50/50 chance to melt marines on contact, or 1/3 for termies, and even then wounding on 2's is still amazing
super good against mechanicus as well

Guys, can you post an image of the new Word Bearers Rite of War, please!

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>>45335837

>>45335846
Thank you, kind sir! And, if you please, the Rite of War for my World Eaters so I can build a super-combo army for the Shadow Crusade. Many thanks, anon!

1500 list

Corax, primarch's chosen

10 veterans tactical, AA, 2HB w/ web, sniper
10 veterans tactical, AA, 2HB w/ web, sniper

2 Rapiers laser
5 Mor Deythan, 5 combi, rhino

7 Dark Furies

I'm not sure about the rapier. Any better AT unit?

>>45335859
That's Iron Warriors, right?

>>45335859
That's not it at all.

>>45335717
It reflects their cuntness and pride at being the first whilst allowing them goodies for being first
Btw - it's sort of established deathwatch lore that a lot of watch captains are dark Angels. So dark Angels in charge of secret bases around the Galaxy (possibly was where the webway would exit if Magnus hadn't messed it up) which sounds exactly like what happened in wolf King

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>>45335859
that's Iron Warriors, not Death Guard

>>45335859
Sorry messed up

>>45335866
>Any better AT unit?
For that point bracket? Arguably grav rapiers

>>45335866
>>45335914
Would a nacked sicaran be good?

>>45334885
Sorry about that
death guard gain a cover save of 5+ while in the open as long as no enemy models are within 12", also rolls a D6 for each woodland terrain piece on the board, on a 4+, the piece has -1 to its cover save and is dangerous terrain to all non-DG units, all frag grenades and missiles are str5, must include siege breaker

>>45335954
Naked? Iffy, but not bad. Personally I think it's worth getting sponsons on a standard sicaran, generally lascannons. 20 points per lascannon is not a bad deal at all.

>>45335959
That's not so bad. Personally I prefer The Reaping but I can see this seeing some use.

>>45335493
Primus Medicae can't have Burning Lore. It is for Chaplains, Centurions, Diabolists, and Praetors only.

IIRC Sacrificial offering forces your entire primary detachment into reserves. You might want to play into that and take some stuff for which that is not really a penalty. Stuff like flyers, maybe a Storm Eagle for your tacticals.

>>45335493
Just wanna throw it out there that your list has over 150 infantry models in it. I hope you're good at telling stories or something or your opponents are going to be bored out of their minds during your movement phases.

So is the Iron Warriors new RoW any good? The distances seem to be pretty short for it to be any good. Also doesn't say it doesn't affect Enemy Barrage Weapons as well, so that means any Enemy barrage weapons hitting IWs near an IronFire counter won't deviate as much/at all either...

>>45336174
A RoW only affects your own army's primary detachment.

As for the range? Well, that's kind of the point. Often times you're just going to be bombarding stuff in their backfield, but eventually your infantry is going to be really close to their infantry, and what this does is allow you do soften them up before you charge them without any risk of scattering onto yourself (and if you use a Nuncio-Vox it can only scatter a maximum of 2 inches).

>>45336197
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.

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How would one go about modeling Hardened Armour on a MkIV suits? I want to make some Breachers, but I don't want to use resin models and from what I can make from plastic, MkV and VI seem a bit too flimsy for such a demanding task.

Was thinking of using studded legs (MkV style added armour layer), Emperor's Children MkIV heads (they look like they got an extra plating on the mask), some extra plates on the hips (Anvil makes nice looking ones) and CSM backpacks like in pic related.

>>45336174
imagine phosphex shells from your 3 quad mortars only scattering d6", or not at all
think about all that rape.
imagine medusa shots that will never hit your own guys, even if you fire them maximum danger close
its pretty nasty, and fluffy as shit

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>Tfw my Phoenix terminators were already pretty strong
>Now theyre even better

>>45336222
different colours, or some kind of consistent marking

I mean, they have the shields, that's enough to really set them apart.

>>45336238
Yup building two more Legion Medusas right now...

Dare you enter my First Legion Fortress - 2000 points

Acid bolt everything with an armour save to death and mop up the survivors with rad grenade and stasis missile supported charges. Javlins for anti-light armour and melta bombs handle anything AV13 plus.

HQ
Praetor, jet bike, iron halo, digital lasers, combi-grenade launcher, Calibanite war blade, melta bombs, rad grenades - 210pts

Legion Champion, jet bike, combi-grenade launcher, Calibanite war blade, rad grenades - 160pts

TROOPS
x6 Outriders, sergeant, x3 Calibanite warblade, melta bombs, rad grenades - 255pts

x6 Outriders, sergeant, x3 Calibanite warblade, melta bombs, rad grenades - 255pts

x6 Sky Hunters, sergeant, Calibanite warblade, melta bombs - 295pts

x6 Sky Hunters, sergeant, Calibanite warblade, melta bombs - 295pts

FAST ATTACK
x3 Javlin speeders, stasis missiles, x6 hunter killer missiles - 270pts

x4 Land speeders, x4 heavy bolter - 260pts

What happened to the guy with the updated red book?

I have a game tomorrow and I really want to use EC's new LA rules but I don't want to be a douche and use it without a proper reference.

>>45336318
Hang on lads, just realised I've not added in the cost of the acid shells.

>>45336222
MKIV destroyer helmets

>>45332846
>Rogue Psyker is 35 points
The joke
Your head

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So lads. There aren't any groups in my area but after skimming through a few of the books I'd like to make a functional army in the event that one shows itself. I'm going with world eaters and I have 20 tacticals, 5 terminators, 5 red butchers and a preator. Where do you guys think I should take it from here? More tacticals I would think. Angron is out of the question at the moment because I doubt I can do him any justice.

Why was Mortarion's honor guard never supposed to be more than 49 paces from him?
Unless you KNEW he was falling to Nurgle (7^2 and all), no one would ever pick that number

>>45336378
Where can one get them separate from the bodies, other than eBay and paying several dollars per head? I'd love to get those SoH Reaver heads for them, but haven't found them at a reasonable price anywhere compared to EC helmets.

>>45336411
Because of Nurgle fooling around with Mortarion's home world.

>>45336411
He was marked by the dark fates from the very beginning.

>>45336407
can never go wrong with some dreads

also yes more bodies.

>>45336046
I would just use a movement tray at that point

>>45336426
Only know of eBay. Maybe get an unused sprue and try home casting? I assumed since you were planning on using so many different pieces on them a bit of cash on eBay wouldn't matter too much. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

>>45336407
well, the go-to answer would just be more tacticals and some apothecaries, but the new book does allow you to do some really crazy shit with rites of war. hard to go wrong with just adding more scoring models, though.

dumb fucking question inbound:

Any chinaman still around?

>>45336541
Yes, plenty. Not going to get contact info here though.

Why was Horus so great that the Emps made him Warmaster? He doesn't seem to have anything going on with him compared to the other primarchs

>>45336564
Almost everyone liked/respected him and he got along with almost everyone. Pretty much the least autistic of all the Primarchs.

>>45336564
He was the only one that could competently keep his brothers from infighting (ironically)

>>45336484
>>45336510
Sounds good, call me uninspired but I imagine the plan when playing world eaters is to run forward and twat the enemy with pointy things so more tacticals is probably the best idea. And dreads you say? Are they good this time round?

>>45336564
He fucked with people the least, and put the fewest wolf pelts on his armor, making him clearly the most for to lead.

>>45336581
But weren't Vulkan and Sangy also like that?

I don't know, it's just that his Legion has a bunch of shit making them seem like Space Wolves (Reavers, Point of the Spear) but he himself seems characterized a lot like Roboute

>>45336601
Vulkan was too nigger and Sangy was too pretty.

>>45336601
Sangy couldnt handle the pressure and Vulkan was too stubborn.

>>45336601
Also Sanguinius was too close to an angel/mutant freak for everyone to really trust.

>>45336601
The rukes dont show it well but as a legion SoH were one of the most powerful. Super powered Legion combined with super powered primarch. Also Vulkan was disrespected by some for his caring of humanity. Not sure about sang, maybe the emperor couldn't decide and flipped a coin?

>>45336564
Because he was the greatest primarch of all, and he was the most beloved one.

>>45336615
>. Also Vulkan was disrespected by some for his caring of humanity.
That's a funny way to say "he was black"

>>45336564
>>45336589
>>45336581

These. He was definitely the most qualified simply because of his social competence which most other primarchs had issues with.

>They all rose as the Warmaster entered the room. It was a large chamber in the Extranus compound where the Imperials met for their regular briefings. Large shield-glass windows overlooked the tumbling terraces of the forested city and the glittering ocean beyond.
>Horus waited silently while six officers and servitors from the Master of Vox’s company finished their routine sweep for spyware, and only spoke once they had activated the portable obscurement device in the corner of the room. The distant melodies of the aria were immediately blanked out.
>‘Two weeks without solid agreement,’ Horus said, ‘nor even a mutually acceptable scheme of how to continue. They regard us with a mixture of curiosity and caution, and hold us at arm’s length. Any commentary?’
>‘We’ve exhausted all possibilities, lord,’ Maloghurst said, ‘to the extent that I fear we are wasting our time. They will admit to nothing but a willingness to open and pursue ambassadorial links, with a view to trade and some cultural exchange. They will not be led on the subject of alliance.’
>‘Or compliance,’ Abaddon remarked quietly.
>‘An attempt to enforce our will here,’ said Horus, ‘would only confirm their worst opinions of us. We cannot force them into compliance.’
>‘We can,’ Abaddon said.
>‘Then I’m saying we shouldn’t,’ Horus replied.
>‘Since when have we worried about hurting people’s feelings, lord?’ Abaddon asked. ‘Whatever our differences, these are humans. It is their duty and their destiny to join with us and stand with us, for the primary glory of Terra. If they will not…’
>He let the words hang. Horus frowned. ‘Someone else?’

>>45336591
Contemptors with an assault cannon are decent. Nothing amazing, but hey they've got AV13 and a save of some kind.

>>45336601
Vulkan ain't a good commander.
Sang has issues.

You've got somewhat obvious (tactical) choices in Guilliman, Lion and Dorn, but the three of them were less charismatic than Horus. Important when trying to command the brady bunch of autism.

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Does any one have the Blood Angel Legion rules to go with their RoW I have here?

>>45336668
Every single HHG in the archive.

>>45336564
He was the besr of them all, in the old fluff, diplomat, warrior, warlord, his legion was the best, some psyker skills, etc. In the new fluff, well, Russ thinks that Hours is the only one he couldn't beat, that says a lot being Russ saying so. Also still a diplomat and etc.

Is a Legion Praevian like Narik Dreygur any good? I want to have him flanked by 2-3 castellax.

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So, now headhunters killteams are better than seekers?

Uh, no. They're worse actually, since they're forced to carry combi-bolters and lost the PE USR. Headhunters used to be close assault units / multi purpose units. Now, they're just lame Seeker rip-offs.

>>45336848
I had no idea their rules changed. Did their points change at least?

>>45335508
It's pretty shite, yeah.
I mean, hitting on 3+ against most things isn't awful, far from it, but the limitation is probably going to fuck you hard if you mis-step even once.
The plasma repeater is right now kinda bad (*maybe* on bikes), but the swords are very nice and the acid shells are pure fuckery and a nightmare for Mechanicum. Not entirely sold on the stasis shells, but time will tell.
I think what will really make or break the DA is their special units. A unit with grenade launcher-access and terranic greatswords would be really mean against any non-TEQ elite, for example.

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>>45336689
Yep, that's not true, looking for a scan or photo all I found was Wargear for them.

>>45336411
Book one says that the number 7 is of great cultural significance on Barbarus (kinda like how it is considered a lucky number here in China).

It shows up a lot. Mortarion's plan for his legion organisation was based around 490,000 marines.

How much of that is coincidence (in-universe, obviously the writers knew what they were doing) and how much represents long-game, prescient influence from Nurgle is left an open question.

>>45336848
Hey, at least now you can field a RoW that allows you to take Headhunters as troops! That's totally useful and viable if you ....hahaha. sorry, I can't keep a straight face while saying such.

Why nobody asked for Tylos Rubio and generic Knight-Errants?

>>45336925
People have asked every thread since the weekend. No one has delivered.

>>45336564
Horus was the only one who seriously considered diplomatic solutions to problems FIRST, AND was good about actually achieving said solutions.

In fact, it is specifically stated that he always attempted and actually preferred diplomatic solutions. This is in spite of being the strongest legion (in terms of military victories) and the oldest veteran among the primarchs and the vast majority of others.

This is a large part of why the Lunar Wolves had the highest tally of compliance, and what made him the most complete and effective conqueror as well as commander.

So, we got the Shattered Legion as well as the Blackshields by now. Anybody got a link / pic for the Armies of Dark Compliance ?

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>>45336970
I only have this.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks !

>>45334865
>white scars sky hunter phalanx

Muh dick. If only jetbikes were so fucking costly.

>>45336222
What legion breh?

>>45336894
You mean lucky 8 in China
That's why all those gambling companies use 8
7 is western lucky number due to a lot of stuff being in 6 and then 7 is the mystical extra or that there are only 7 visible planets (inc the moon)

>>45336772
I don't recall Horus having any psyker powers - outside of the charisma thing

>>45336636
So you're saying white people are evil and should be exterminated for the good of humanity ?

>>45333258
It'll just be included under space marines, they only have 2 unique units and 1 named character and no RoW's.

Could easily fit their tactica in after all of the Legion ones.

>>45336601
Vulkan was like ferrus - spent his spare time in the forge
Whereas Horus was a typical gangster don - spare time was spent politicing and meetings and social shit

>>45336411
At the time nurgle and 7 weren't wish known
They stil aren't in 40k and since they still seem to use a 7 day week why would they
Magnus spouts a lot of numerology but that's regarded as superstition and anyway even he doesn't know about the gods at that point just seems them as some power

>>45333817
Honestly, I think the chain-axe thing is obvious.

Most new players, myself included, assumed you had to buy a CCW first.

The problem is that every WE player who'd spent ages pondering the rule would then tell us that we get free chain-axes, and assuming they know the rules better than us, new players believe them.

It's like the Blitz Brigade bullshit in 40k. No player knows they can do it till some Neckbeard who's desperate to make his army more viable tells them they can, and a lot of the time he's telling them to get them on-side to make the interpretation more credible.

What are people's guesses for Legion special units now we have rules? For dark angels I'm guessing some kind of ravenwing black knight with a special melee Weapon and WS5 come stock on bikes and can upgrade to scimitars and an elite Terminator unit maybe with deep strike or other special toys.

>>45336411

Also Death Guard was organized into 7 grand companies, each 70,000 strong totaling 490,000 marines

Playing with god numbers applies to all legions that became like that. A Thousand Sons was filled with references to 9 for example. Lots of (obvious) foreshadowing.

>>45334081
Kakophoni army - will be fucking awesome.

I'm gonna combine it with the Phosphex Cannisters.

Every turn I'll be forcing every squad in the open to do 2 LD checks or be stuck and dying, and even if they do pass they'll be stuck in dangerous terrain.

Also would quite like to do a Cover-camping IF primarchs chosen list, but would probably have to wait for Dorn to be released.

I'm really liking the possibility of small elite MEQ armies in 30k now.

It was there before with termies but relied on fuckloads of land-raiders which I don't find very fun.

>>45337316
Its pretty obvious if you apply common sense. You buy a chainsword, then you may exchange that chainsword for a chainaxe.
When people get semantical or try to find other ways the wording could be interpreted is when it gets cloudy. Yes the rule could be clarified, but its not as open to interpretation as argumentative, socially stunted internet addicts make it out to be.

>>45337356
>I'm really liking the possibility of small elite MEQ armies in 30k now.
Same here, the primarch and a few vets is going to present some really nice modelling opportunities.

Why not proxy Dorn though? Or kitbash your own?

>>45337249
No, I'm saying Blacks aren't trusted
Which is objectively true, show anyone two pictures, one of a black and one of any other race, the black is less trusted. On a genetic level, blacks are less trusted

On the subject of wargear availability, Librarians can't take options off the list because they already swapped the CCW they would be exchanging for a force weapon, correct? Wanted to be sure I was reading that right.

>>45337340
>.5 million marines
what? I thought the Ultras were the most numerous with like 250k max

>>45337417
>reading comprehension
7x70'000 = 490'000
they never got that big because morty kept putting them through hell, but that was his goal

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>>45336893
You can't be serious.
FIIINE.
Here comes the aeroplane! Open wide you little bitch.

>>45337316
>>45337364
Well, it's the old RAW vs. RAI. I mean, if you went RAW, old 3e monoliths gained attacks from Weapon Destroyed results instead of losing them ("reduced by -1", aka. X-(-1), which is same as X+1), but everybody understood it as losing attacks. Same with 4e Rapid Fire rules, which were written so that if you have a model with, say, a combi-flamer and you shot the flamer, you could not assault, because the model was carrying a rapid fire weapon and it had fired in the shooting phase. Not that it fired a rapid fire weapon, merely carrying one and firing (any weapon) in the shooting phase meant you could not assault, as per the RAW.

But I will say that these arguments are good at spotting the actual mistakes and bad wordings in the rules, which then can be clarified by FW. Well written rules benefit all.

>>45336259
How did they get buffed?

Honestly, I can never see myself taking them over Palentine blades now.

Still the prettiest models I've ever seen though.

>>45337407
Oh look trump voter came back in the Internet after the win
You stormfags were quiet after the first primary now you're crawling out from the rocks you were hiding under

>>45337435
Encarmine Fury is needlessly long for what basically amounts to "all BA models get +1 to wound in CC."

>>45337417

Legions were genuinely huge back then. Although Mortarion planned the legion to be 490k strong, it never came to be since his legion was fighting attrition warfare and unable to keep their numbers that high.

>>45337435
Thanks! And thanks for being a dick on the Internet when you could've been helpful in the first place!

>>45337430
The guy talking about reading comprehension fails to notice the decimal place 'point 5 million marines'.

>>45337451
WS5, sweeping advance, updated LA rules

>>45337568
>WS5
Not even an EC player but it was stupid that they didn't get that in the first place. Also love that Justaerin got a boost

Power swords on apothecaries, yea or nay? As EC in blobs of tacticals with extra cc weapon, for context.

>>45337430
>says reading comprehension
>can't read a fucking decimal

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>>45337393
I'm currently trying to sculpt my own.

got the eagle on his chest down but I need to redo his legs because I accidentally gave him a retarded pose.

>>45337455
Oh look, someone who rejects facts in favor of feelings assumes everyone who does otherwise is a Trump voter

>>45337475
Not that guy but if you are unwilling to search the archive yourself and want to be spoonfeed just say thank you instead of being a diva.
>>45258888

>>45337680
>>45337455
you two got the wrong adress, /pol/ is down the hall, so is /b/

>>45337475
Jesus Christ, at least be humble when you're being spoonfed you cunt.

>>45336411
Much like the Black Legion just happen to be the double octed?

>>45337407
>Blacks are less trusted

No shit? You mean the poverty stricken, career criminal, violent crime tendency'd demographic with dark skin? People trust them less than other folks? Racist! Racist!

You need to blindly and irrationally treat/approach every single human being *exactly* the same or you are a filthy, uneducated, bigot. Common sense be damned.

>>45337568
Yeah they still don't seem as good as blades.

I don't understand why the base starting cost of the unit is so high.

>>45337475
You are a gigantic faggot.

Lurk more and remember, you were asking for favors.

>>45337455
>l-le trump voter :((((((
It is genetic though, we are bred to mistrust things that are different.
If you showed an african a picture of a black man and a white man he'd think the white one is more distrustful.
Same with asians, same with whites.

>>45337407
>On a genetic level, blacks are less trusted
This is the most quintessentially retarded statement I have ever heard.

You actually believe that it's in your genes to not trust blacks?

Is your actual knowledge of science that of a fucking 6 year-old, or rather, 200 years in the past?

I learn about Victorians who think this kind of shit, and even in their time, are largely discredited.

Since when could white-trash afford 30k?

>>45337219
All of the Primarchs were psykers to some degree, some just more than others, and not all realized it.
For example, it's highly theorized that the reason Angron can take so much damage and still be alive is because he's unknowingly using biomancy on himself

>>45337475
Its not anons responsibility to give you what you ask for. If you are too stupid to find it yourself (which you were) - then you ask for it (like you did).

When someone takes the time to help you (because you're too fucking stupid to help yourself) - you thank them and leave it at that.

Your self-centered, retard attitude isnt going to serve you well in life. It feels good knowing that you probably create a shitton of obstacles for yourself through sheer stupidity and laziness. If only anon was always there to carry you through life.

>>45337782
lol you think that is genetic.

Have you not heard of social conditioning?

You can't breed things not to trust things, that is stupid.

Don't use the word 'genetic' unless you actually know anything about genetic.

Use a more simple word that better describes what you are trying to say, because not trusting black people being a genetic trait is the silliest thing I've ever heard and fucking impossible.

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>>45337475

>>45337671
I'd say not, you want him as far from the front lines as possible

>>45337807
>its highly theorized

*citation needed

Just one will do. I wont ask for multiple sources to meet the criteria "highly". Just share with us one source that says Angron is a psyker using biomancy on himself.

>>45337678
Just model him a toilet and you're good to go, primarch have to shit some time right?

>>45337828
>You can't breed things not to trust things, that is stupid.
Turns out you can
>Infants respond to the sound of snake hissing, angry voices of adults, the crackling sound of a fire, thunder, and the cries of other infants. They have a drop in heart rate, their eyes blinking, increased turning toward the speakers or parent, all of these indicating that they were paying more attention. This is believed by some to be evolutionary response to danger
And again, you misconstructed my post to fit your agenda.
I didn't say distrusting black people is a genetic trait, I said distrusting people of other skin colors is a genetic trait

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>>45337475
Why do you people even come to this site? Don't you have literally every other place on the internet to shit up?

>>45337845
idk senpai, I saw it in a thread here a year or two ago, where they theorized what powers each primarch would have
all I remember is
>Fulgrim subconsciously making himself appear handsomer
>Perturabo (or was it Ferrus?) having a bond with machine spirits
>Curze, Lorgar, Magnus, sang and Corax you already know
>Mortarion also having biomancy to survive all the shit he gets thrown into

>>45337882
>No, Mortarion. You are the witch.
>And then Mortarion was nurgled

>>45337844
My reasoning for it is that I'm aiming to get into combat either way, what with +1I on the charge, better sweeping, phoenix spears etc. Since I have to issue and accept challenges, if the sergeant dies the apothecary is up next, might as well make him more of a threat. Whenever he's not in a challenge he assists the blob with a couple of decent attacks.

The downsides I can think of are that 10pts for AP3 on a model with 1 attack (and a bolt pistol) is not great and that I'm making a high value target even higher value.

>>45337828
can probably trust it not to disembowel me" "dose not look like me, dose not smell like me, it is not of my pack and therefor it is a potential danger". Humans trust things looking familiar and distrust new things or things looking differently. This is the exact reason why homonogenes (have have no idea how you spell that and spellcheck is not helping, niether is google) populations have a tendency to be xenophobic

>>45337855
>infants become attentive to loud, harsh and strange noises
More news at 11.
>This is believed by some to be evolutionary response to danger
>believed by some
Strong case you got there.

>>45337946
>>45337828
och for fucks sake, stop making a bitch out of science. It's not a inbreed mistrust, its a biological mechanism meant to preserve a spices that has complicated social structures. "Looks like me, smells like me, i can probably trust it not to disembowel me" "dose not look like me, dose not smell like me, it is not of my pack and therefor it is a potential danger". Humans trust things looking familiar and distrust new things or things looking differently. This is the exact reason why homonogenes populations have a tendency to be xenophobic


sorry, cut my text, here is the whole one

>>45337882
>I saw it in a thread here a year or two ago

Oh well shit bro, thats good enough for me! All the Primarchs are psykers and "Angron uses biomancy on himself" is now canon.

Got anymore sweet, sweet shitposts you'd like to share? Perhaps some highly theorized bullshit about the lost Legions? Then you could link a WiP thread with some anons homebrew as your source.

>>45337855
>I didn't say distrusting black people is a genetic trait, I said distrusting people of other skin colors is a genetic trait
>show anyone two pictures, one of a black and one of any other race, the black is less trusted

Yes, what a massive fucking misconstruction. You said it is 'genetic' to trust black people less than others, it's written right fucking there you dipshit.

>Turns out you can
top kek

Linking that shows just how retarded you are.

Having an evolutionary response to danger is not the same as a genetic trait to distrust something.

Everyone has a evolutionary response to danger - a genetic distrust of something is literally impossible - you can always learn to trust something, therefore it can never be something in your genes.

What you are referring to is explicitly social conditioning to be wary of black people.

Genes are not involved you dipshit.

It's ironic that people fall back on the genetic argument because they are too stupid to fix learned behaviour, when in reality - genetics are too complicated for them to fucking understand.

>>45337882
>>45337845
Not him, but assumptions can be made if you've read The Reflection Crack'd in which Fulgrim exorcises himself with psychic knowledge he gained while stuck in the painting. Since Fulgrim, who scorned psykers as he thought they were mutants and thus imperfect, had latent psyker abilities without any signs before hand AND due to all of the primarchs being descendants of the Emperor who is basically made of psykers, it wouldn't be a great stretch to say all Primarchs are capable of psychic powers and are just not aware.

Again, this is all just speculation.
That said, I can't think of any times Angron used psyker shit on himself unless he maybe did to lift the titan? He definitely used it after becoming a daemon prince but that doesn't really count.

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>>45337972
nigga I was just sharing what I consider to be an interesting theory no need to get all salty

>>45337973
>What you are referring to is explicitly social conditioning to be wary of black people.
Yet it is not just black people you dumb cuck.
An African will also distrust an Asian or a Scandinavian, and a Japanese man will distrust a Spaniard or a Nigerian

>>45338016
>>45337973
>>45337959
Shut the fuck up both of you, go to /pol/ if you want to argue about black people.

How do you guys equip your command squads?

>>45337998
>highly theorized

>>45338066
Mine rolls with Sevatar.
1 Power Sword
2 Power Axes
2 Heavy Chainswords

I used Mark III to give them a different look than the rest of my NL army. They eat shit a lot, but they look cool as hell.

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>>45338075
Yeah, I used a wrong word.
Have you ever considered how much time you've spent getting mad on a Bhutanese passport forgery image-board about the lore of a fictional wargame?

Has someone seen the page for the Legion Herald yet ? I haven't seen it leaked as of now.

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So the new Imperial Fist changes to Dorn make his sword not unwieldly and it gains reaping blow. Seems like an ok buff I suppose.
Then the Breecher squads lose +1I and gain +1 weapon skill for their shieldwall ability...
I can't tell if this is a buff or a nerf exactly to be honest, now that they don't get to go first agaisnt marines.

>>45338235
>Seems like an ok buff I suppose.
-_- REALLY? "I suppose". ITS FUCKING GREAT
>>45338235
>I can't tell if this is a buff or a nerf exactly to be honest,
POWER AXES

>>45338191
legion praevian and delegatus are now published, no different than rules in faq
new consul type called the ‘herald; gains ‘rite of command’, support officer and a banner. the banner’s rules changes depending on if you’re a loyalist, traitor or blackshield. each has their own rules, the blackshields banner confers fear and +1ld to friendly units within 12″. the loyalist banner confers +1ws to all legion astartes within 12″ to a max of ws5. the traitor banner confers +1″ to charge and run distances and may reroll 1’s to hit in assaults to units within 12″.
leviathan seige talon is in, same as pdf rules but with the added cyclonic melta lance 18″str9 ap1 heavy3, melta
contemptor-cortus is here. basically a contemptor with lower strength and side/back armour, has fleet and move through cover. gains a flat 5+ invuln. it had all the usual dreadnought weapons and has an ‘atomatic overcharge’ which allows it to pick a bonus from a list but at the end of the turn, must roll a 2+ or lose a hull point. cheapest of the FW dreadnought classes and is an elites choice.

>>45338310
rapier quad-launchers are now their own unit. initially the same as before, but has only frag shells, and can then buy shatter, incendiar or splinter shells (anti-armour, anti cover, lower str but rending). if the army has a siege breaker, the unit can upgrade to carry phosphex canister shells which are exactly what you think.
the vindicator has its updated rules for the laser destroyer array, and is now a a tank squadron of 1-3.
mastodon is a beast, 14 all round with 10 hull points and 2 void shields. all the melta weapons on the front are actually a single weapon rules wise. 12″ range, str 9 ap1, heavy4, blast (3″) melta and each pen against a building or fortification becomes D3 pens. holds 40 models. it can also carry up to 2 regular dreads or contemptors (not dreados or levis). they count as 10 models each and count towards the 40 models limit.

>>45338016
>cuck
confirmed retard

Generalisations that sounds good in your head are not evidence anon.

Every example you gave is either not true, or unverifiable.

I bet you play World Eaters, your models are all half covered in Blood For the Blood God, and you've never won a game in your life because you don't know what objectives are.

>>45338287
This

Dorn seems better now, but still confused.

I feel like his buff to his unit should be counter-attack and BS2 overwatch instead of charge bonuses.

He doesn't really add much power to a charge as he only has 4 attacks base.

Haven't seen the rules for reaping blow yet though.

>>45338461
>I bet you play World Eaters, your models are all half covered in Blood For the Blood God, and you've never won a game in your life because you don't know what objectives are.
Nice projection there.
In all honesty the only reason I post here is because of the fluff

>>45338461
Damn all the 40k roleplayers did migrate here with the BaC box
The shit in your general is your fault don't bring it here

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>>45338461

>>45338310
Wow, traitor bonus seems waaay fucking better than all the others.

>>45338569
>>45338538
>>45338461
Hey 40kids, this place used to be okay until you shits turned up.

>>45338536
‘reaping blow’: -1 initiative, if in base contact with more than one model at their initiative step, they gain +1 attack.

So Dorn can now man fight his brothers, but also get S6 ap2 4+D3+1 Attacks vs scrubs,

>>45337364

Where does it say you have to exchange the chainsword though, exchange is used in other wargear selections. The reason why the free axes works is that its worded as "Instead you take" instead of "exchange" meaning that its adding a new option, which happens to be free.

>>45337364
Nowhere is there the word "exchange"

>>45338617
I feel like Dorn isn't really made for man-fighting though. I can't see him being able to take on any of the other Primarchs.

What I'm wondering atm is, if I put him at the front of a unit, so he is the closest model to most attacks - will the enemy only wound the unit on a 3+ due to his special rules?

>>45338866
I mean with ranged attacks btw, encase it wasn't obvious.

>>45338866
What's annoying about Dorn is that while he isn't that great of a fighter (not that he should be considering its not really mentioned in the fluff) he doesn't do much for your army either. CC buffs for one unit and use his Ld is fairly lacklustre

>>45333717
The recent wording of the Blood Angels Hand flamer rules, worded the same, contradict the answer given in the email which swung the argument back in the free ax side of the debate. That email was either wrong, or the wordings of 2 different legions are both wrong.

Bottom line, FW customer service is shit tier as usual when it comes to rules.

The biggest issue is the difference between "Instead may take" vs "exchange" as the later implies having of the chainsword while the former never technically has to "have" the chainsword as he takes the axe "instead" of the chainsword.

>>45338866
>>45338995
I feel he is still the 'weakest' Primarch. He is better that some or on par when it comes to Man fights. The same can be said about his ability to lead an army. I feel you take him because you like IF, really no other reason. I for one play Siggy in 2k pts or less. with sword bro's, rhino's and a Storm lord.

>>45338995
I will planning to use his cover buffs to take an ADL instead for transports for a sniper vets list - the idea being that I could just go to ground and avoid damage with a 2+ rerollabe cover until a target presents itself.

But yeah the CC buff seems pretty meh.

It's like they tried to make him a good all-rounder but ended up making him shit at everything.

>>45338995
Yeah, Dorn should give some sort of Super Stubborn buffs to his legion, maybe the ability to pass or fail morale checks are desired like what Calgar used to have? Some sort of bolter-buff while units are in their deployment zone?

>>45338995
For the whole army, anon.

>>45339082
Super stubborn sounds good, fists get BS5 bolter s standard though so might be difficult to implement well. Maybe +1T if the unit doesn't move that turn or something.

>>45339078
>It's like they tried to make him a good all-rounder but ended up making him shit at everything.
Haha, yep ;_;

>>45339078
>It's like they tried to make him a good all-rounder but ended up making him shit at everything.
And with Roboute they managed to make an all-rounder into a melee monster, outpacing the supposed "best fighter" primarchs

>>45338995
>>45339051
>>45339082
Compare him to other primarchs of the same pts, who are not combat monsters or Buff bots, e.g. Angry man or Alpha twin. Fulgrim is ok in combat but his buff is so so. Hobo Corax has a good buff but is so so in combat. Lorgar has good buff and godd-ish combat stats. AGAIN for their pts cost (~380). Dorn is 385 and now, on par with those is his cost range.

>>45337475
Please leave.

So is it true that you can make your own Knight Errants, and if it is true does anyone have the pics of it? I'd really like to make Iacton for my SoH army.

So, it looks like it's impossible to make an army of Iron Hands+Salamanders+Raven Guard led by broken Corax. Sad.

>>45339471
Yes, but no one with the rules can be bothered to post them, it seems.

>>45337475
Fucking hell, Anon. Stop being such a moist bitch.

>>45339496
>So, it looks like it's impossible to make an army of Iron Hands+Salamanders+Raven Guard led by broken Corax. Sad.

Cant you do Primarch's Chosen RoW and get Corax as your warlord then an IH+Sallie HQ to unlock their legions?

Anyone have a pic of the latest emperor's children RoW???

Wouldn't mind seeing the limitations etc etc

>>45339496
>>45339471
Speaking of Knight Errants, what happens if you put one in a unit that can deep strike? Do they scatter or does the unit not scatter because the Knight Errant's By Falsehood Cloaked?

>>45339551
Nope, Shattered Legions are not allowed any Primarchs. And Primarch's Chosen, oddly, does not require you to field a primarch.

This does mean that Primarch's Chosen is effectively a straight improvement over PotL in most cases.

>>45336615
I don't remember vulkan being disrespected because of his care for humanity

>>45336818

Wait headhunters got changed?

How do I do Chaplains in 30k?

I want to take one for my EC and I'd rather have him with a spear than a Crozius so I don't actually know how to distinguish him from any other consul.

>>45332827
Ultramarine special termies are pretty good.

>>45339591
>And Primarch's Chosen, oddly, does not require you to field a primarch.

>When taken in this detachment a Primarch is counted as an HQ choice instead of a Lord of War, and must be both the primary detachment's compulsory HQ and the armies warlord. When using this rite, a Primarch may be taken in an army of any size

It's annoying though for this and Armoured breakthrough you need to take a preator too

>>45339569
unless it says it affects the unit usually it only applies to the individual

>>45339674
For armoured breakthrough, yes. For Primarch's Chosen, no. The Primarch can fulfill both the HQ and MotL requirements.

>>45339651
Paint them black, theyre still supposed to be separated from the chain of command and the rest of the legion.

Is there any BA art in the new book?

>>45337972

I bet you're the guy who denies the AL have three Primarchs

>>45339674
>unless it says it affects the unit usually it only applies to the individual

I understand that but if he's part of a deep striking unit and you place him in the table he wont scatter and then the rest of the unit has to be deployed around him, I dont get whats stopping that.

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>>45335856

>>45337001
>May use one another transports
Space Marines in gorgons, nice

>>45339763
Thanks anon.

Could you post the new WE special character as well?

I want to know if the thing about Apothecaries being able to increase attacks of a unit just an extension of his special rules or can I get that without taking him

can anyone confirm the changes to Headhunters?

Can anyone post the IF RoW? I want to know if its mandatory to take wardens as troops.

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>>45339869
Don't have that one I'm afraid

>>45339698
how do I chaplain in RG? Still black?

So I think I cracked open the Blood Angels Baal Dakka-tank build.

The main limiting factor is must have Guys with Legion Astrates >= Vehicles.

So with the Tank ROW we do:

(120) Praetor w/ Jump Pack (Jump Infantry so bypasses the Infantry must have a ride rule)

Troops 4x of
(120) Predator Squad: Main Cannon + Heavy Flamer Sponsons + Pittle Upgraded to dakka cannons
x3 per squad

FA 3x
(45) Attack Bikes With heavy flamers upgraded to dakka cannons


Sums to 1695 as a base list. Leaves rooms to add friends for the Praetor or give him a rhino with a pittle mounted assault cannon(Heavyflamer)

Total for the base list is 39 assault cannons for 156 24" S6 shots and 12 Heresy Pred Cannons for 48 48" S7 shots.

Firing everything is 204 dice, a little over 5.6 cubes a turn.

All of these are on bikes or fast vehicles (From ROW).

>>45340485

1) Jump Infantry is still Infantry. All you've done is increase the cost to a Storm Eagle.
2) Troop Predators are Cannon & Sponson only. No Pintles allowed.

If spamming Assault Cannons is the game, always max out your Heavy Support before moving into Troop unlocks.

>>45340485
>(120) Praetor w/ Jump Pack (Jump Infantry so bypasses the Infantry must have a ride rule)

Nope, that's not the way that works.

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>>45340485
Read the Limitations again, that Praetor is illegal.

>>45340485
You are better off just spamming preds in the heavy support slot.

>>45339612
From what I've heard (mainly from here), they now have Banestrike Combi-Bolters as standard, and they can take Combi-weapons now (for 7 points each, same price as termis).
They lost Preferred Enemy though.
They also have Precision Shots (but they already got that in the FAQ, so it's not new).

In terms of shooting they're probably quite a bit more deadly now, but the loss of PE takes away a bit from their CC edge.
Though I imagine they still keep the power daggers, which makes them an unpleasant surprise in CC.

>>45340589
Anything has heavy flamers can take Assault cannons for 5 points (shown here >>45336893 )
The main cannon upgrade is free but ROW says you have to keep the main cannon

>>45340604
>>45340617
>>45340632

O no! What ever will I do... Pay 5 extra points and put him on a bike?

>>45340666

>>45340589
You are correct about the pittle, I miss read that.

>>45340666
>O no! What ever will I do... Pay 5 extra points and put him on a bike?

Then do that next time instead of posting a clumsily constructed list.

>>45340666
>Pay 5 extra points and put him on a bike?

He needs a vehicle, get a damocles rhino or another infantry squad with a rhino.

>>45337316
>>45337364
FWIW, I thought the wording pretty firmly supported the free chainaxe argument. Besides, a lot of people would've been okay with it, otherwise there would have been more arguments for sure. CCW-armed tac marines aren't as bad as assault marines, but they need all the help they can get.

>>45340666
>O no! What ever will I do... Pay 5 extra points and put him on a bike?

You clearly don't know how this RoW works...

>>45340643

>Infiltrating combi weapons

Ohh so they're mohr Dethayn now and can be troops.

Yeah I'm okay with that (especially since they can get counter attack)

>>45340766
They're basically Mohr Deytayn now, yes. However they lack their 1st-shooting rending rule.
But I imagine the power daggers help compensate, as they can probably slaughter the survivors after shooting most of the initial target to hell.

>>45339900
Pretty sure it is, I saw a pic of but I didn't save it.

I think that was the main drawback of it though.

Question to anyone who has the book and can be arsed to pull it out: I've heard that rad grenades are part of the DG legion rules, can you confirm? And can i get a pic of the new RoW?

>>45340485
Pretty sure that list isn't legal as it doesn't meet the Blood Angles requirements as well as the RoW requirements.

The troops predators can't take Baal cannons in the RoW.

Also, you could have the exact same list using the Alternative FoC found in the red book whilst still being legal - then you could use a different RoW whilst still having the same ammount of Preds.

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How would an Iron Warriors/WE Shattered legion look? I want brutal loyalists.

>>45340740
It does support free Chainaxes, and the Blood Angels rules for hand flamers solidified the precedent. Anyone that tries to take away WE chain axes now are either not reading the rules right or just an idiot trying to trick his opponent into wasting points on free shit.

>>45339869
I want to know this as well.

WE could be getting insane with that guy.

>>45341133
Could be cool.

Depends on the new WE LA rules though.

If rerolling 1's to wound on the charge applies to disordered charges they could be good with the Hammer of Olympia RoW.

Pinning also helps WE.

Problem with WE is that all their best stuff is traitor.

Their best LA rule is only for traitors, Angron is probably the second best Primarch, Kharn is pretty good special character, and by the sounds of it the new special character will be a mainstay in every WE force and is a traitor only.

They don't really offer anything to IW really.

>>45341293
WE have a new Loyalist character in Book 6. Hopefully this rules don't suck, he has a Praetor stat line.

>>45341245
I guess you missed the FW email explicitly saying that a model needs to purchase a chainsword first to be able to swap it for an axe.

and no, it wasn't just a "this is my interpretation but you should house rule it :^)!" email

>>45341265
Yeah I bet you if the bonuses are based on him being in your army literally every WE list will take him.

I've heard varying things though - some people have said it's +1S and chance to die and some people say it's +1 attack and a chance to die.

>>45341328
>Praetor statline
>equipment: Mastercrafted Chainaxe :^)

>>45341380
Powerfist and Archeotech pistol actually

>>45341293
Hammer of Olympia only applies to Iron Warriors.
There is also a loyalist WE character.
Ladtly Loyalist blue and white is better.

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>>45341447
If the IW is the Warlord, then HoO will affect the World Eaters in the army as well.

>>45338310
>the loyalist banner confers +1ws to all legion astartes within 12″ to a max of ws5.
Figures, I wanted to run a consul like this in my Dark Angels army. Of course their ability would be all but useless to my Legion.

>>45340194
Also with Roc (the bird) bones. It's a rite of passage for rg chaplains to hunt one bare handed. But i don't know when that tradition started.

>>45336818
>>45339894
No they are worse seekers. Seekers get PE still and have precision shots

I'm running traitor EC but would like to build some other miniatures (either as allies or as shattered legion)
Who complements EC the best?
Who covers what EC lack?
Which is the fluffiest choice?

Should I just male blackshield and treat them as Fabius's experiments?

>>45341483
Well, I can't read it seems.
Is this also applied to IH Breachers in the IF RoW?

>>45341538
Yup, that's how you can get effectively T6 breachers.

>>45341522

PE only matters now for headhunters in CC. They're still rerolling hits at tanged. Alpharius gives them PE:E anyway

>>45341547
This is why Shattered Legion forces are by agreement only and probably won't be allowed outside narrative campaigns.

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>>45339078
>>45339180

>yfw they stat the emperor
>and he's shit

>>45341626
He'll need to have a statline that can beat an empowered Horus (who I hope gets upgraded statline in the Battle of Terra book). He'll probably be anywhere from 8 to 10 in everything, an equivalent of the Primarch rule, and Psyker Mastery Level 6 or something.

>>45341668
>Awesome Statline
>Special rule where owning player can never win the mission if the Emperor is alive at the end of the game.

>>45341668
>Primarch rule
>ML5, possibly more (ML6, picks his powers, all powers of a school, something like that)
>Burning Blade analogue
>2+/3++, with the same rule as Dorn's armor
>some sort of super claw

>>45341534
Probably Son's of Horus in terms of both fluff and crunch.

EC lack deep striking termies/ resilient units, which SoH now have in Justerian.

SoH LA rule compliments EC rules quite nicely as well as EC are good at frontload assaults which will likely give the SoH an extra attack.

If you take the Black Reaving RoW as a shattered legion you could tarpit units with SoH blobs and then charge them with EC special units who will absolutely rape anything when they have rage.

IW would work well too as they are good at cracking open transports.

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>>45341626
I'm not sure you can even make a mini of the Emperor. He's effectively invincible unless you have the direct empowerment of all 4 Chaos Gods.

I'm not even sure what you could shoot or stab, the guy doesn't even have a real physical form as we know it. He's just a mass of psychic energy.

I'm sure FW will do it though, because EVERYBODY is going to buy that damn model.

>>45341744
>All loyalist imperial units become fearless as long as emps is alive
>if emps is removed as a causality, you lose the game automatically.
>Can only be taken as part of a Custodes army

>>45341577
>They're still rerolling hits at tanged.
Not with combi weapons, which is why you take seekers. For 20 PE plasma shots

>Alpharius gives them PE:E anyway
Requiring your primarch to make a unit good, does not make that unit inherently good.

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Any of the new RoW any good for Word Bearers?
Not a fan of the specific WB RoW is why.

>>45341783
>He's effectively invincible unless you have the direct empowerment of all 4 Chaos Gods.
At the LVO 30k tournament last year they tried a special rule that made it so only primarchs had a decent chance of even hitting other primarchs so that they wouldn't have the issue of primarchs getting squished immediately in the open. They could do something similar with Big E. That said... I don't know if that would be very fun. What's the point in making a model and rules for a guy that's effectively invincible unless you're playing one specific scenario?

The more I see of these crappy camera shots, the more I realize we need good scans. So who's doing them for us and what's the ETA?

>>45341864
Scanon said he's gonna get the book eventually, but he has to actually buy it first, which means FW has to put it up on the website so that people CAN buy it.

>>45341864
ScanAnon will probably do it and the ETA is when it's fucking done.

>>45341818

No it means they're not getting redundant bonuses from their primarch. In return they get HoW and AP3 rending, which goes great with their ability to gain counter attack.

>>45341795
>Pius gets a special rule that lets him get sacrificed and return the Emperor back into the game with 1 wound and gives him Hatred

>>45341863
That's dumb.

Vulkan effectively "died" from a nuclear missile launched by Iron Warriors during the Drop Site Massacre. I mean yeah he regenerated after because of plot armor, but he indeed died and even he didn't know he could do that.

Lorgar would have been killed by a Warhound Titan in the Shadow Crusade if Angron didn't save him.

This idea that all Primarchs can only be beaten by other Primarchs is dumb. They can be taken down, it's just really really hard to do. That is how it should be on the tabletop to. A Primarch would blow through squad after squad but encounter a Titan or a Super-Heavy and he'll have trouble.

>>45341899
>Father's Mercy: Emperor gets -1 to all stats and reduces his invulnerable save to 4++ when in a challenge with Horus

>>45341830
This actually brings up an interesting question:

Does Lorgar fulfil the chaplain requirement for WB if he's taken in Primarchs chosen?

>>45341906
Oh, I'm not defending the rule from that tournament. It was dumb and they didn't do it again this year. I'm just saying it could work as a template for a Emps vs Horus system.
>>45341936
Like that.

>>45341938
No, why would he?

Will the allies matrix get an "update" around the Siege of Terra? More factions should hate each other by that point and it makes less sense for loyalist remnants of traitor legions being as good of friends with loyalists (and vice versa).

>>45342013
Maybe, maybe not. Remember that the ally matrix is there to allow for both allied and traitor armies of any legion.

>>45341974
Because he's Lorgar.

How do you play as Ultras? Their rules favor MSU, which isn't really great in 30k.

>>45342047
He never satisfied the Chaplain requirement, why would he now?

>>45341938
It's not an interesting question, it's a dumb question. Just read the rules.

>>45342062

Important to remember that the rules for 'marking' are far more lenient than the requirements to get the rerolls. Basically anything in the list will do and so you don't need MSU so much as cheap units that can land single hits on people. Also remember that hordes go both ways and your opponent is likely to be running big blobs. You're unlikely to need more than 2-3 markers a turn because you should be hosing down individual units at a time.

Rhinos are the obvious one. Piss cheap bolter shots that can target separately. But my personal favourite is the Deathstorm, which unloads craters into everything nearby, comes in on time and on target, and is indiscriminate so you lose nothing by firing it first.

It also helps that Ultramarines have some of the best unique units in the entire game. Suzerain are a contender for the literal best unit, while Locutarii are so cheap as to be criminal.

>>45341769
Thanks anon!
SoH could be cool. I like the idea of deep striking terminators and outflanking other parts of my army and just attack from literally everywhere.

Iron Warriors are cool too. Have a couple blobs of IW sitting with artillery covering or blasting vehicles while EC run in and fight the troops.
Angel Exterminatus all day.

>>45342306

What about the Extermination fluff? I find most IW fans subscribe to either one or the other, and reject the other as wrong or incorrect.

>>45342343
What specifically? I haven't read it in depth.

The decimation was stupid though.

Can anyone post a pdf of the new legion RoWs?

>>45342343
Why not both? It's not like they're covering the same time periods.

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>>45342417
>decimation
>stupid
YOU DESERVE DECIMATION

>>45342418
Look in the archives, this was posted in the last General.

>>45342081
Because now he can be taken as a cumpulsory HQ choice.

>>45341906
I just read the Lexicanum entry on Vulkan and his saga after Istvaan.

W.T.F.

This is most ridiculous story I've ever seen in this universe. My mind is boggled. Is it just Black Library stuff? Does it make it into the FW books?

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>>45342507

Do you even read the rules?

>>45342507
>He never satisfied the Chaplain requirement, why would he now?

>Because now he can be taken as a cumpulsory HQ choice.

Do you usually make irrelevant connections with other things in your life?

So, I'm guessing since no one has said so yet, cadre weapons haven't been buffed?

And Rampager squads are therefore still shit?

>>45342468
There'sa pdf for the generic RoWs, but not the legion specific ones that I can see.

>>45342458

Pert is such an interesting primarch with his intelligence, connection to EoT, view on GC only as a duty etc.

But the more I read about how he treated and viewed his legion and what he did in general makes it difficult to like him.

>>45342665

He wanted the best, and he didn't get it. So he punished them for not being the best. After that, they strived harder to become the best. It worked out for him in the end.

>>45342665
he has severe autism and is a psychopath

thats why hes cool

>>45342737
yeah but that's exactly why the fluff was retarded
>I'll punish you for not conquering as much as the larger and primarchful legions
Perturabo may have rage issues, but he's not retarded

Been going through archives and can see posts on the DG, but no pics on there rite of war. Any one got a pic and a pic with the new Manreaper rules and status of DG taking Rad grenades. Hefty request! Ta

>>45342737
>He wanted the best, and he didn't get it. So he punished them for not being the best. After that, they strived harder to become the best. It worked out for him in the end.
Well it didn't work that they became the best, but they were better and more to his liking, at significant psychological cost.

Also, everyone forgets that when he receives his legion he gets a force that had just "won" a horrifically pyrrhic victory that had wiped out most of the veterans and high command - almost entirely unnecessarily, as it was caused by the legion trying to tough it out and brute force a success when their plans collapsed and it was clear they should have withdrawn and re-planned (which they were able to do).

The legion's stubborn pride caused almost ten times the casualties of the decimation

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>>45342993

>>45342737
But they went right on not being the best. And they didn't really even change tactics, they just kept doing what they had been doing, only even more so because it was probably die for winning or certainly die for losing. Pert just gave them some new methods with which to do it.

>>45341906

Yeah, what did you think happened to Primarchs 2 and 11?

Being traitor isn't worth getting wiped out from the records, but dying to regular enemies certainly is. Shamefur dispray and all that.

>>45343172
Thank you!

>>45343168
>Finds legion is understrength due to stupidity
>Inflicts even more casualties so they know not to trade lives for victory
>Proceeds to trade their lives for victory in the first battle, and every one thereafter
Yes, this makes sense. I like this logic. It is entirely consistent and rational.

>>45343172
The RG one is as I thought: great concept, poor execution. They cant use shatter legion rules either, which is exactly what they did. They went out, liberated people, and picked up fellow loyalists from other legions. Rinsed, and repeated. They kept accumulating allied humans and marines yet this RoW stops the marine part because it's too specific of a liberation mission instead of the concept of liberation.

Oh well. Recon Company, Drop Assault Vanguard, and stealing the UM one via shattered are all much better anyway.

So, anyone know if there were any changes to Reavers?

All the older legions Rite of War, but does anyone have pics of the Dark Angels Rites? The other rules were posted earlier.

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>>45343324
They're unchanged other than benefitting from the Death Dealer LA rule.

>>45339763
Rules question on this with limitation. It says WE cannon take immobile units. Does this mean that I cannon take drop pods???

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>>45343363
No, the unit has to actually say Immobile. Like Tarantulas.

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>>45343349
>abaddon has precision strike
>still not eternal warrior
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>45343386

Awesome!
thanks!

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>>45343386
Like the Drop Pod?

>>45343471
Oh thought it was only Immobile once it landed. Well I guess WEs can't take drop pods in their new RoW.

>>45343529
Me too, but decided to check just to make sure.

So, we just have to wait and see if they FAQ it.

>>45343576
Probably not, if you really want to do Drop Assault WEs, use the Orbital Assault RoW.

>>45343616
It's just weird that an RoW that's suppose to represent them getting into the thick of it denies you a unit that gets you in the thick of it. Maybe it's to stop a player from just dumping their dudes into the enemy deployment area for the benefits?

>>45343677
Most likely.