Warhammer 40K General

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Not Homebrew Bread edition
fucking dropped

Is the dreadnought formation from Space wolves good?

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>>45041874
Homebrew Ork Psyker time!

Current point of contention is (I believe) the 1/army upgrade. It's there to allow orks to get some consistency on their known powers, as well as more dice to throw.

It's already restricted to 1/army, on a level 3 Psyker that only knows Big WAAAAAGH! powers.

Options are
- Choose 1 power and generate more dice based on number of nearby units
- Level 4
- Reroll known powers

Any suggestions?

>>45041916
>Homebrew Bread
>Not Homebrew Beer

I have a sudden desire for a combination pub that brews its own beer/FLGS

Make Looted Wagons squadrons.

Make Deff Dreads squadrons.

Make Killa Kans not shit squadrons.

Make Dakka jets squadrons.

Make 20 man units of boys able to take dedicated Battle Wagon.

Thanks.

>>45041956
That sounds like a great idea, i've always wanted to make a coffee shop/FLGS

>>45041961
This. Also drop Killa Kan & Deff Dread prices. 50pts for a 11/11/10 2HP walker is why I cant sleep at night

>>45041947
>Options are
>level 4
nah, thats reserved for ahriman, fateweaver and eldrad. Leave it at level 3, and generate from Kunninly Brutal and Brutally Kunnin schools
There is that BL relic, but that gimps your Focus in exchange Leave ML4 for the big bosses, maybe add a level 4 warphead character but don't let the generics get that high.

>>45041992
>50 pts

Is that seriously what they cost? I can stick a Plasmagun on a Crisis suit for less than that.

>>45042026
50 base, 5 points for Grotzookas

>>45041961
40% of that list isn't homebrew. Behold, the FW Dread Mob List!

I just realized that it got taken down from public listing, maybe IA8 gets updated soon?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

>>45042037
Shit nigga, why the fuck would anyone actually play Orks

>>45042043
Its been down for a long time, there's an email floating around that says they took it down because they dont believe it is viable for play because its so out of date

>>45042043
Won't be using that friend.

I'll wait for IA 8 to get updated, which I've been waiting for since early 2014.

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>>45042056
HAHAHAHAHA I HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE ANYMORE HAHAHAHA dont worry ive been working on getting them painted

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>>45042014
So what would you go with? it's intended to be a unique choice, (0-1 per army) if you take that final upgrade, but I don't want a named character, so that people can take whatever they want.

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Don't forget the bingo.

>>45042060
>>45042057
I want it updated.

What credentials does one need to do rules development for FW? I'd do it for Free A statistics degree has to count for something.

>>45041947
I'm going to list the number of characters that I can think of that are Mastery Level 4.

>Eldrad
And Eldar over 10,000 years old, being on the path of the seer the entire time. Is actually dying of old age, despite being a god damn Eldar. Was powerful when he started around 12,000 years ago.

>Ahzek Ahriman
A Sorcerer that has been Sorcering for another 10,000 years. Currently Tzeentch, the God of Sorcery's, main man in the mortal world.
Gained power by turning his followers to dust and absorbing their powers.

>Fateweaveer
The most Sorcery Sorcerer deamon around, literally made from the most sorcery part of the God of Sorcery.

I think that's it, actually.
Point is, Mastery Level 4 is not something you can slap on the table without 10,000 or so years of psyker dickery, and it devalues the homebrew as a whole.

>>45042037
God, that's terrible. I just looked over those weapons. A 27 point Crisis suit will put out more firepower and be more mobile with the only downside being that it's not immune to bolter fire from the front. That's a very small downside for the benefits though.

Those should totally be 35 points, if not less.

>>45042083
Do people get confused with Blitz Brigade often?

>>45042122
Quite often actually.

>>45042122
Used to, its still a point of contention

>>45042122
usually some autism as to charging after the scout move and the nebulous definition of player turn vs game turn
its actually very clear cut and easy to understand for someone with basic reading comprehension

>>45042110
That's what I was told.

But I want some semi-reliability towards knowing at least one power, and having 1 be selected caused one guy in the last thread to have an aneurysm.

What would you do? With the powers being so different from eachother, you could get really fucked.

>>45042080
Make it a level 2 that can upgrade to level 3, give it a unique pair of schools or a dual-school like what the eldar have. Price them fairly low so as to be competitive with a warbos, give them a bunch of options for customisability, give them a warp field for 4++ or something, etc. Don't just give them level 4, thats lazy, level 4s are characters who manipulate reality like playdough and are major players on the galactic scene, not generic weirdbosses

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Where can I download the Sabbat Worlds Crusade background book by Dan Abnett? There's no one seeding it anymore

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>>45042118
Dont forget that they even have to take psuedo Morale Tests!!

>>45042110
You missed Aetaos'rau'keres. (henceforth referred to as "A".)

>Homebrew edition

Hmm...the only homebrew idea I've had lately was giving Sisters of Battle access to a Land Speeder Storm variant as a transport, with a few weapon restrictions and different vehicle equipment.

Of course, that'll only matter once I actually bite the bullet and but into them, and even then I'm not sure how fluffy it would be for them to even use landspeeders.

>>45042160
I wasn't going with 4. I want them to be able to be a generic level 3, and 1 guy per army can get better control over his powers and be a pseudo-wurrzag.

Is choosing 1 of his powers too much?

>>45042168
That is really bad. I still think 35 might be fair, if only because they can get rokkits for free and have decent melee weapons, but 50 is waaaaay too much.

>>45041932
No one?

>>45042148
Pick a power for 10 points.
Generate new powers every turn, like old Wierdboyz.
Deal with a bit of randomness, it's 40K.
Deal with ALL randomness, he's a fukken Ork, m8.

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>>45042122
Orks being able to turn 1 charge is a hard concept for people to gather.

>>45042192
>generic level 3
Thats the ceiling. I just read it after your changes, its fine now.
>Is choosing 1 of his powers too much?
No, it just gimps him, let him roll on a unique school and get three powers+focus like what many armies have, with six unique powers that arent all shit like the current one.

>>45042214
I woulda said 35 before I learned that they dont even have DCCWs anymore, i'd put them at 25-30

>>45042242
Yeah, reading over it again I think 30 is more fair. I think I'm overestimating the value of Rokkits. Maybe a bit less, but it's just staggering to think that they might cost double what they actually should.

>>45042269
Welcome to orkdex. Look at Nobs if you want to feel rectum-ravaged

>>45042219
Random powers every turn made 4th ed (comically, the last edition for orks) wierdboys an active detriment.

>>45042241
How does it gimp him? He has to roll on Big WAAAAAGH!, and now he chooses 1 power, rolls for 2, and gets the primaris.

>>45042285
>18 points, despite costing 16 for one in a Boyz squad
>4 points for a 4+ armor to improve the 6+
>27 (Twenty Seven) extra points for a Warbike to make all those Nob Bikes from 4th useless.

>>45041874
>homebrew edition

Non-vehicle marines in the CSM codex gain "Let the Galaxy Burn!" Once per game, each unit with Let the Galaxy Burn! may choose either to fire all ranged weapons it would normally be able to fire twice in the shooting face, or to double it's initiative characteristic and charge 6+d6 inches. Units that fire twice may not fire in the next friendly shooting face, or overwatch in the next enemy turn, and units that charge 6+d6 inches may neither consolidate after an assault this turn nor charge in the next friendly turn.

>>45042285
This.

>>45042214
Did the math, and I'm getting them somewhere around 42.

AV 11, but weak on one side
>8
2 Hull points, times two.
>16
Strength is 2 above the magic average of 3
>18
A second attack at strength 5
>21
WS low by 1
>20

Big Shoota
>25
Klaw that's AP2, strikes before I1, and hits at S7
>45
Cowerdly Grots is a 1/3 chance for Crew Shaken, can be mitigated entirely by a large unit and a nearby Deff Dread
>42

The lowest I can see them going is 40. For that price, you could get a Space Marine with a Powerfist, which strikes after the Kan, and also can die to bolters, poison, ect.

>>45042308
that's actually a fine idea. Don't even play csm, but this makes them sense.

>>45042306
Fucking Nobz should cost 10-12 max

>>45042306
>comes standard with eavy armour, may buy a bike for 12 PPM, klaw for 5 points
how are they now?

>>45042338
keep them the same price, make them T5

then start fixing the wargear costs

I have this urge to run a Lion's Blade Strike Force with some Ravenwing bikers in the auxiliary slot. How do they fare on the tabletop?

>>45042360
Did you work on the Tau or Eldar Codexes, by chance?

>>45042403
Yeah cause thats about the equivalent of Scatbikes/Wraithknights/Tau Formations

>>45042403
Assume they also made a new plastic warbike model at the same time, its about the same level of favouritism, yes.

>>45042326
The Klaw is still only striking at Initiative 2, which is very similar to I1 against many targets you'd use it against. Consider as well that the Marine has WS 4, while the Kan only has 2, meaning that the Kan is rather likely to miss with its attacks. It's also only Strength 7 rather than 8 like the powerfist, which is rather significant due to instant death.

The individual parts are okay when looked at in a vacuum, but when you take them together it doesn't sync up well.

How do you fix assault?

>>45042360
30 point warbikers is actually fair. (boyz pay 12ppm for them too)

5 point Klaws are not.

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Are 4 Thunderwolves equipped like this acceptable?
x2 Chainsword + SS
x2 Wolf Claw + Bolt Pistols

They will be accomponied by Harold for the Furious Charge, Leadership, Counter Attack rules. I figured Str6 on the charge would be good enough to handle most things, might give the leader Melta bombs

>>45042472
Get rid of needing assault grenades to charge through cover, make standardcharge distance 6+1d6", make it possible to make a disordered charge out of deep-strike, and make disordered charges the current 2d6".

>>45042501
nope
cut the wolf claws, one thunder hammer, and SS all around

>>45042473
>>45042360
Nobz down to 17 per model.
Warbikes down to 16 per model.
Warbikes need to be a little more expensive for Nobs, since that extra toughness and 4+armor is also buffing a second wound.

>>45042528
Kinda figured wolf claws were ass, oh well. Would you recommend any Power Weapons? Or just rely on Rending Chainswords?

>>45042473
5pt klaws OR cheap warbikes is fair, not both together

>>45042472
Remove overwatch except for d3 wounds from flamers and pistols.

>>45042562
just the chainswords, power weapons are unnecesary expense

>>45042473
Klaws should not cost the same as power fists as the klaw is on a MUCH more fragile unit

Make klaws like 15 points

>>45042562
Keep them cheap, no need for frills when you can take a hammer and a wolf-lord. The other guys are bullet catchers.

>>45042568
CheapER klaws and half-price bikes is what they need.

Say, 15 point claws, 15 point bikes?

>>45042511
Doesn't make sense, a disordered charge would still average at least 7. You'd want disordered to be d6+3 or something.

>>45042600
Oh, and 'Eavy Armor standard. Now Nobz are kinda OK.

>>45042605
Pretty sure disordered is -2 to assault roll

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Does the Imperium differentiate between heresy, blasphemy, and infidelity? Also, is there any practise similar to excommunication?

>>45042657
The ecclesiarchy would differentiate between blasphemy and heresy. Infidelity is never touched on because there is only war.

Excommunication exists. The traitor legions are Excommunicate Traitoris, for example, and I'm fairly certain the Inquisition uses similar terms when talking about traitors in their ranks.

>>45042326
A Crisis suit is probably a more straightforward comparison, since they share very similar stats.

A Crisis suit with a Burst cannon is 27 points, which gives them a similar gun as well.

The main differences are that the can has an AV, though a rather weak one. For the average 12 S 5 hits you'd need to glance a Kan to death, you need 9 against a Crisis suit, assuming it gets an armor save. This is a fairly small difference when you consider that the Kan also has vehicle damage to worry about.

As well, a Crisis suit has a Jetpack, offering it much more mobility with its firepower. A Crisis suit will be taking less damage simply by jumping into and out of cover while firing, while a Kan will have to take whatever damage coming towards it head on.

From there, the last big difference is having a high-strength, AP 2 close combat weapon. While this is certainly a nice benefit, its main use will be against vehicles that won't be swinging back.

In comparison to that, a Crisis suit with a Fusion blaster is 32 points, and has AP 1 compared to the 3 of a Rokkit or the 2 of a close combat attack. It has the Melta rule and is much more likely to take out a vehicle, and doesn't need to charge in to do so.

I think 35 points is perfectly fine, gaining a bit of durability and melee capability in exchange for a lack of mobility and having worse guns.

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Eldar, Tau, Orks or Necrons, /tg/?

>>45042746
If they removed, or at least lessened the effects of, Cowardly Grots, 35 sounds good

>>45042605
It was intentional. Assaulting from deep-strike really isn't too bad, though it should still have some risk involved. Having it retain the 2d6 means failed charges are much more possible, especially if difficult terrain or scatter goes poorly.

The guaranteed charge distance is to add in predictability so you have something to rely on. The 2d6 for disorganized is to make it more of a gamble and something that can go south.

>>45042771
Orks

>>45042746
>>45042774
I think 30-35 is good but fuck that Cowardly Grots bullshit

>>45042792
why Orks?

>>45042816
Most loved faction, unfortunately

>>45042843
I'm asking because I want to know why people like the faction they pick, because I'm still choosing an army and it's between those.

>>45042774
>>45042792
Maybe change Cowardly Grots to only fail on a 1 instead? Or make it so you can choose to have them make a Fall back move instead of getting Shaken.

>>45042326
Let's see the difference with FAXIV:

Walker base: 30 points
+1 AV: 35 points
-1 Hull Point: 30 points
-1 WS: 27 points
Bolter: 30 points
S7AP2 Melee(Offset by WS2/I2): 40 points

Oh hey, we both came up with the exact same numbers, through different systems. I really like to see when something like this happens, because more than one person coming to the same conclusion bears a lot of weight on how accurate the estimate is.

They're still way the hell overcosted, and let's also assume that if you want to sell moar models, you need to have the actual points cost below what it's worth to the player. So ideally Killa Kanz should be either 35 points to make them mildly powerful, or 30 points to make them an "Auto-take, buy a shit-ton".

>>45042873
Don't pick orks if you want to get a start.
You're gonna have a lot of painting to start off with and probably lose a lot.

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>>45042106
I've got some sad for you. Took a shot in the dark a few months ago and just asked FW support if they were going to update IA8 any time soon. What they basically said back was "We aren't working on it any time soon". I capped the email here.

>>45042873
Do yourself a favor and get any of the 3 but Orks haha, they are in a horrible spot right now, the other three are the 1st, 2nd, and 3/4th top codexs. I would say Necrons cause they're interesting to me.

Definitely read their fluff though, make sure you like what you're playing

>>45042888
>cowardly grots
the current rule is definitely a minus10

>>45042913
I agree completely. However I'm also of the mindset that it's complete bullshit that makes the squad utterly worthless. If I were to update the codex, I would make them 35 points, and remove Cowardly Grots entirely.

To quote the goddamn rulebook:
"Vehicles are immune to all morale checks. It is generally assumed that the crew of vehicles has absolute faith in the ability of their armour to protect them"

This should obviously still apply to Grots, who are made as big as Gazhkul when they're put in a Killa Kan.

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>>45042904
Glad I collected my 27 model Dread Mob for Forgeworld to abandon us

>>45042873
I'll be straight, I love orks but if you pick orks you'll most likely lose most if not all your games and even after you learn to use them most of the armies outperform the orks, the other three are more forgiving with new players.

>>45042944
This always fucked with me.

>>45042944
I play with the 6th ed updated dread mob list, and i have no-one complaining about either out of date rules or 35 point kans, so i don't mind much. Some people dislike playing against a wall of AV, but in that case i just run the Tide instead

>>45042959
I felt it perfectly represented Ork players lmao

>>45042944
>>45042959
>>45042966

Just imagine Gork and Mork told him there's a better scrap beyond the mountains.

>>45042936
I think the idea is that Grots, having poor leadership normally, would lose the faith in their armor when they see another one next to them blown up.

That said, I think it should only fail on a 1 or have the bonuses be increased to +2. That means that the squad won't break as long as there are 3 of them left, or if a Deff dread is nearby threatening to Krump them.

Then the only worry is if you have a squad away from the Deff dread that falls below 3 models, and even then it'll still be a rather low chance.

>>45042966
>>45042976
I was talking about the original. But this works too.

>>45042771
Painting orks is probably the most fun of those.

>>45042976
haha, thats what ill say if I post it again
but we all know there isnt

>>45042998
Oh yeah man the original is like wtf

>>45042944

At least there rules kept us semi-relevant.

I haven't been able to bring an Ork list that's even remotely viable without Zhadsnark or the Kustom Stompa.

>>45042816
They are universally loved by the fanbase for a variety of reasons. They're goofy as hell, and great comedic relief from a setting that's normally well known for literally being the origin of the phrase "Grimdark".

Orks have free reign in their fluff to do basically whatever the hell they want, and it will simply just work. Do you want to play with the entire collection of awesome cars from Mad Max? Go right ahead! Do you want to put LOOTED CARNIFEXES on the table? Go right ahead! Do you want to have an overall great laugh as the other players insist you have to yell "WAAAAGH!" in order to actually call a Waagh?

Because I have actually convinced the LGS' Ork-Bro that he literally has to say WAAAAGH! in order to call a WAAAGH in the game. It's hilarious, and oftentimes many people in the store will gather around to join in with the WAAAAGH when it's time to go!

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>>45042998
adventure called, and he answered

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>>45043011
I want this store

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>>45042944
This hits me pretty hard..

>>45043011
Orks made it to the list because of this kind of thing, the background to them was just so fantastic, they made the final 4 on fluff alone. I'd already seen people saying Orks were crap on the field elsewhere.

>>45043044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kdDeGXUjI
If you havent seen the original, then replace penguin with Ork as they talk

How many vehicles can be killed by a humble Tau Pulse Rifle/Carbine?

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>>45043061
It was standing there, looked like it was contemplating something, and then that look back, the damn thing knew it was going away forever. Like it had one last look back at it's home, it's family.

The fuck, man?

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>>45043061
>you'll never have the courage he had

>>45042269

Rokkits used to be much better when they could conceivably blow up a vehicle, you know, back in 5th edition. When Kans got updated it was like the rules writers were still operating back in the days of Kan Wall, without realizing that that died a long, long time ago.

What annoys me is that a Nob on a Warbike with a Power Klaw is 70 points. That's the same price as a Thunderwolf Cavalry with a Thunderhammer. The Thunderwolf gets:

>+2 BS
>+1 Strength
>+1 Initiative (largely irrelevant though if both have unwieldy)
>+1 Attack
>+2 Leadership
>3+ armour save vs 4+
>Krak grenades
>ATSKNF
>Acute Senses
>Counter Attack
>Concussive attacks

The Nob gets

>Mob Rule (ha ha ha)
>Furious Charge (but because of the way PKs and Thunderhammers are calculated, TWC strike at Str 10 whilst Nobz go at Str 9, and then only on the charge)
>3 Twin-Linked Str 5 Ap5 shots at 18 inches vs 1 Str 4 Ap5 shot
>3+ jink cover save

This seems unequal.

>>45043138
Tons. Plenty of vehicles have a rear armor of 10 or 11. You need a minimum of 12 all around in order to be immune.

>>45042378

Been working a Lion's Blade. TLDR: Better than many armies, worse than vanilla/necrons/tau/eldar. Ravenwing is king.

>>45043166
The nob atually has the 4+ cover, and only has a 3+ if he flat-outs.

TWC are too cheap for what they have, and PK Nob Bikers should cost ~45 points.

>>45043166
That does seem very odd. Even at a cursory glance, Warbikers are 18 points each just like the Nobs, and the Nob boss is only 28 in that squad. Making warbikes even half the price means you're looking at 31 per Nob Biker, with the main benefit being more strength and an extra wound compared to Warbikers.

How do we fix Blood Angels? What would a BA Decurion look like?

>>45041874
If this is a homebrew edition then I'll show this: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Waffle_Edition_40K

On a different not, is there any reason why Craftworld Eldar wouldn't use Splinter weapons or for Dark Eldar to not use Lasblasters and Shuriken weapons. The Corsairs use both.

>>45043280
Dark Eldar likely prefer the suffering caused by poison as opposed to the cleaner kills Shuriken and lasers cause, and also might be unable to make them properly work without the minor psychic abilities.

Craftworld Eldar might not like Splinter weapons out of some respect for tradition or just not having access to the proper poisons, with wraithbone being more common for shuriken weapons, and lasers requiring less reloading. Splinter weapons might have more limited ammo, which matters less to Dark Eldar Raiders, but more to Craftworld Eldar who might need to make a prolonged defense.

That said, considering that they're battle brothers, it would be very easy to mix the two and fluff one as the other. Some Guardians as Kabalites using Shuriken weapons, or the other way around.

how do you guys feel about someone making their own units? I really want to make a Dark Eldar cruise yacht out of an old toy. was thinking hull mounted weapons on each side like a battle ship, a special hammer of wrath attack, and transport capacity of 20

12/12/12
Skimmer
Fast
Open top
HP5
hull mounted side guns
3x per side, str 8 ap2 lance blast

Aethersails

Transport capacity 20.

-Repelling party
when charged, if you have a troop in transport, you may unload them front of your yacht, engaged with the enemy models.

Prison Schooner-
When your vehicle passes over a enemy infantry unit in the movement phase, D6 Models within the unit must make a weapon skill check or be removed as a casualty.

opinions?

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Welp now that I got everyone emotional, I have a first working list of my Wolves x Grey Knights.
R8 H8 Masterb8.

=== Space Wolves CAD===

**HQ**
Harald Deathwolf- 190pts

**Troops**
3x 10 Grey Hunters- 195pts
>2 Melta Guns, Drop Pod

**Fast Attack**
5 Thunderwolf Cavalry- 290pts
>4 Stormshields, 1 Thunderhammer

===Grey Knight Nemesis Strike Force===

**HQ**
Librarian- 165ts
>ML 3, Liber Daemonica, Nemesis Stave

**Troops**
2x 5 Terminators- 195
> 1 Daemonhammer, 1 Psycannon, 4 Swords

**Heavy Support**
Dreadknight- 225pts
>Greatsword, Incinerator, Psycannon, Personal Teleporter

1845/1850pts

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>>45042771
This is me, decided to go for Eldar.

Is the Battleforce a good starting box? If not, can you guys recommend something?

Also, should I expect to get shit from people for picking this army?

>>45043271

Blood Angels get the BC, it's just not great. Re-roll of WT and +1 I on charges, not bad.

Bring them in line with Vanilla, give them some better wargear.

>>45042965
Playing with outdated and no longer legal dread mob is one thing, but also choosing the old points cost on top of that?

Pretty douche move. But whatever, if that is what your group accepts or is ignorant of, who am i to judge.

>>45043349
Only if you play cheesy wraithlord/flier spam

I play an aspect warrior/autarch focused army and no one gives a shit

>>45043349
>Also, should I expect to get shit from people for picking this army?

Yes...faggot

>>45043333
Sounds like a better version of the Tantalus.

>>45043349
I would go to the Eldar page on 1d4chan and read up on the units, and yes, you're going to get massive shit from this forum

>>45043349
People might jokingly as long as you aren't piling on cheese. The box is pretty solid, pick up a farseer and you have a legal army

>>45043349
What do you like about eldar, tell us and we can work from there.

>>45043345
I don't know wolves so i'm assuming they're good, but consider putting a falchion on the Justicar Terminator, the +1 attack gives him a great chance against any non-IC

>>45043368
As opposed to Killa Kanz that are blatantly overcosted in every possible way?

As opposed to playing a literal bottom-of-the-barrel army that struggles to play well even with optimized lists against middle-tier armies?

I'm sorry, but anyone who complains about Orks doing stuff like the Dread Mob list is an insufferable dick. Even with 35 point killa kans, they're not going to be all that hard for you to deal with, but the Ork Player gets to bring more. What can possibly be so bad about that?

>>45043440
He's a WAAC fag ignore him

>>45043440
Why don't you just pick and choose all your point values from any of the codexs, from any of the versions then?

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>>45043440
>But Anon, how is that fair if I only table you on turn 3 instead of turn 2? C'mon, think of the suffering of us poor Eldar and Tau players!

Dark Angels Battle Company Tournament List

Company Master ;105
>Power Sword

Chaplain: 90

Command Squad x 5; 140
>5 Meltaguns, Drop Pod

Command Squad x 5; 140
>5 Meltaguns, Drop Pod

Assault Squad x 5; 80
> 2 Flamers, Drop Pod

Assault Squad x 5; 90
>Jump Packs, Melta Bomb

Devastators x 5; 130
>3 Lascannons, Rhino

Devastators x 5 115
>3 Missile Launchers, Rhino

Tactical x 5; 90
>Melta, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

Tactical x 5; 90
>Melta, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

Tactical x 10; 180
>Plasma, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma Rhino

Tactical x 10; 180
>Plasma, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma Rhino

Tactical x 10; 180
>Plasma, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma Rhino

Tactical x 10; 200
>Grav, Grav Cannon, Combi-Grav, Rhino

Auxillary
Scouts x 5; 55 Points
>5 Bolters

>>45043452
What, exactly, do you think has changed between 6th and 7th edition to make Killa Kans 15 points more expensive? What rule changes have taken place that would justify the price difference?

>>45043476
Killa Kan point costs are 4th edition, not 6th.

Secondly, I guarantee you are using the updated 7th edition rules for your upgrade yet choosing to use 4th edition prices, am I right? I know I am don't bother answering that.

So why do you feel justified in picking and choosing anything because its what you feel should be used? It brings me back to my previous question, why don't you just pick and choose from any codex, from any ruleset?

>>45043372
Fuck you too, anon.

>>45043381
>>45043387
>>45043370
That's okay then. So long as people won't throw a shitfit if they just see Eldar.

>>45043390
I like the models, they have lots of clean bright colours that are going to stand out on the table more. I like the look of them.

The fluff's pretty cool, they might be a bit mary sue-ish sometimes, but they aren't ultra edgy or something like Dark Eldar or some of the Imperium.

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>>45043494
It's actually using the updated 6th edition rules for the Dread Mob Orks.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

It lists Killa Kans as being 35 points per model, and also explicitly lists killa kans in the Dread Mob as using a different ruleset than in the original codex.

Technically these are "Dread Mob Killa Kans".

>>45043494
>Secondly, I guarantee you are using the updated 7th edition rules for your upgrade yet choosing to use 4th edition prices, am I right? I know I am don't bother answering that.

Mate, not the anon you're talking to but if I could use the 4th edition rules for Killa Kans, including all upgrades, I would do it in a flash.

What kind of "Decurions would be fitting for Orks, Dark Eldar and CSM?

>>45043534
The "updated" and no longer available list. So he's using outdated, no longer valid, old point costs for a model and yet still not seeing why it's a douche move.

>>45043535

He's probably buying grot riggers for 5 points and then using the 7th edition rule set for it, which is IWND. That's what I was stating.

>>45043516
Then pick the battle force, it's a good start, from there you can begin to plan on what to focus, jut get a farseer and you have the core of your army ready to begin.

>but they aren't ultra edgy or something like Dark Eldar
As a dark eldar player I must tell you you make them as edgy as you want, I just want to be a decadent noble up to some fun and the occasional raid.

>>45043569
Its me, >>45042965 again. I play because its a local homerule that the group allows because it makes sense-like BA dreads getting a decent amount of attacks, and scouts getting ws/bs4. Its a balance thing, and i still get whooped most of the time anyway, its just not an autolose before i even place my models. But sure, i'm the WAAC player doing dick moves, whatever

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>>45043558
As an ork player I can say that an Ork Decurion could be so customizable that I can't even imagine what it would be like, pretty exciting I'd imagine

>>45043569
Are you fucking retarded you shit-eating niggeroid? I literally just gave you a fucking link to the damn thing, ITS STILL AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD STRAIGHT OFF THE SITE. Go back to liberia and rip the black skin off your limp niggerdick so you can get aids and die a painful death, and then send your corpse to some homosex naked clown cannibal there so they can use your aids ridden festering asshole to make war-juice to kill kids with. This is how much I care for you.

>>45043597
Im the guy he's arguing against, and i still think you're a blight on the conversation. Please leave, or stop trolling/falseflagging

>>45043569
Nobody cares and he's not playing with you let it go anon, you're just making an ass of yourself.

>>45043558

Fitting as in good, or fitting as in what GW would actually do?

Because the Ork one is going to look like this:

>Warband (1+)
>1 Warboss
>1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz
>1 Big Mek
>6 units of Boyz
>1 unit of Gretchin

>Command Benefits:
>All models taken in this Detachment gain the Hammer of Wrath special rule.

>>45043569
>He's probably buying grot riggers for 5 points and then using the 7th edition rule set for it, which is IWND. That's what I was stating.

And like I said, I'll run the 4th edition rule for Grot Riggers every time, even when it was worthless on Killa Kans. 5 points for IWND on a 2 hull point 11 AV walker is quite fine by the way.

>>45043558
Orks probably need an Eldar style one that has a wide variety of Core formations. One with lots of Boys for a Green Tide, one with Bikes and buggys for speed-freakz, one with more walkers for Dread-mob, and whatever else they can center a Ork warband around.

The side formations would be various specialty units to add onto that.

Dark Eldar could go for something more focused, with a single core contingent that forms the basics of a Raiding party, with kabalites, Raiders/Venoms, Archons, and other fairly straightforward things. Then the extra formations would focus either on the gladitorial half with Wyches, beastmasters and the like, or the homonculi covens.

Chaos Space Marines basically needs 3 more Decurions all along the lines of Khorne Daemonkin, with an army-wide benefit that's as cool as Blood Tithe, different unit sizes, but the requirement everything take Marks.

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Hey tg. Just finished my first mini in 15 years. Looking for opinions on my color scheme. I might just go with alpha legion colors.

>>45043558
I feel like Dark Eldar and CSM are hard to do because of how vastly different they could be. A warband of Khornates would play completly different to a warband of tzeetchian follower. Similar problem with Deldar, A wych cult will play differently than a kabalite warband which will be vastly different than a haemonculous coven.

>>45043622
No no anon they only gain Hammer of Wrath if they roll 10+ for charge.
Fucking kill me please

>>45043558
>>45043622
Yeah. If we're going what GW might actually do, the CSM decurion is going to be:

Black Crusade (1+)
1 Chaos Lord
1 Unit of Terminators
1 Sorcerer
3 units of CSM, Berserkers, Noise Marines of Thousand Sons, depending on the mark of the Lord
2 units of Cultists

And give everyone a free roll on the fucking boon table or something.

>>45043642
I like the scheme, but you should post it on /wip/. They'll probably tear you a new one but usually they'll give you advice

>>45043597
>Gave you a link to it

Now find it on the site without doing a google search, I'll wait.

>>45043618
Like I said, he can choose to play with what he wants but at least be consistent in it, otherwise why doesn't he just pick and choose any of the rules from any of the codexs and just use them? That is essentially what he is already doing, only point I'm making.

>>45043622
Sure, see above. Why not use 4th edition furious charge too while you're at it? You're already picking and choosing, why not just go a bit further with it?

And just so you know 4th edition grot riggers was a 4+ to remove immobilised. But as you only seem to play with what you feel, then go ahead, just don't pass it off as valid to other people.

>>45043642
Your color scheme needs to be thinned

>>45043648

My mistake, I should have known it was too good to be true. I'll make the adjustment immediately.

>Command Benefits
>All models with the 'Ere We Go! special rule that roll a 10 or higher on their charge distance (after modifiers) gain the Hammer of Wrath special rule. Models that gain Hammer of Wrath in this way strike at their base initiative instead of Initiative 10 (Orks ain't that fast!)

>>45043642
>>45043642
Your paints are super thick, and very blocky. Maybe a wash/some highlights could help, but I'd dip him in simple green/purple power and start over.
Captcha being a bitch to anyone else?

>>45043640
CSM needs a lot more than just the decurions. Go take a look at the KDK book: All the daemon choices are better than their equivilents from CSM, sometimes far, far better. The base units themselves are trash, and the entire faction needs a 5e DEldar style reboot, of both rules and models.

And it's never going to happen.

>>45043558
>>45043640
In terms of benefits, Orks would get some sort of twin-linking and a bonus to initiative on the charge, either during waaghs or just on specific types of units.

Dark Eldar would treat the turn as 1 later for Power from Pain, get to re-roll on combat Drugs, and add 1" to any movement they make.

>>45043670
>don't pass it off as valid to other people.
I literally said i use it as a home rule and everyone is fine with it, just like normal rules for BA dreads and scouts. There is no picking and choosing, its us changing the game so i'm not unfairly gimped

>>45043699
Agreed, they need a massive overhaul rather than a simple Decurion to fix them. I will say that Khorne Daemonkin at least feels fluffy though, and I would like to see the other 3 get a similar cool thing.

>>45043558
Speed freaks
1 warboss on bike
1 unit of nib bikers
2 units of bikes or boyz on trukk
1 unit of buggies

Command benefits: Don't press waaaagh!! Units on this detachment stealth and jink on the trukks and buggies

Goffs
1 warboss
1 unit of nobz or mega nobz
4 units of boyz
1 unit of storm boyz
2 units of lootas/flashgitz

Command benefits
Da biggest and da badest: models on this formation gains Fearless

>>45043640
CSM probably aren't going the way of mono-god only for Decurions. Abaddon's still the posterboy, along with the Black Legion.

>>45043670
>And just so you know 4th edition grot riggers was a 4+ to remove immobilized.

Which i knew. And which was fucking useless in 4th because immobilized units in squadrons counted as destroyed. And I would still take it if it meant that I could use the 4th edition Killa Kan rules, which were actually you know, reasonable.

>You're already picking and choosing, why not just go a bit further with it?

Because you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I'm the original faggot you're arguing with. I'm not. I'm the one who clearly said I wasn't him. I'm also the one who said
> if I could use the 4th edition rules for Killa Kans, including all upgrades, I would do it in a flash.

I'm not arguing for being allowed to do it. I'm not arguing for being able to pick and choose from whatever ruleset you like, regardless of how poor your faction is. I'm saying that if Gw put out an update tomorrow saying "We will allow you to use 4th edition Killa Kan rules in your 7th ed codex" I would. Not because the Kan rules back then were particularly good, but because the new ones are spectacularly BAD.

>>45043747
>buggy squadron requirement in decurion
>they don't release a new buggy model

>>45043747
>Command benefits
>Da biggest and da badest: models on this formation gains Fearless

You did see what the Goffs got in their own supplement right? Warlord must accept and offer challenges, and +2 to rolls on the Mob Rule table. Fearless? Not a hope.

>>45043768

>No bundle for the formation is put up on the site because GW is too embarrassed by the model
>Image in the book for the formation is some bikes with trukks in the background, no sign of buggies anywhere.

>>45043770
Fuck challenges so fucking much

Missile pod or SMS for the drone turret? For a strike team, i should add

>>45043667
>GW might actually do

1 Lord (must take a mark)
1 Unit of Mutilators (must take same mark as lord)
1 Maulerfield
1 Heldrake
1 unit of cult troops depending on mark
2 squads of CSM (must take same mark as lord)
2 units of cultists (must take same mark as lord)

Bonus - all models with 6" of lord get crusader

or

1 Zeke
1 Unit of Terminators (must take land raider dedicated transport, must take votlw)
3 units of chosen (must take votlw)
3 units of CSM (must take votlw)

Bonus - As long as Abaddon is alive all units in the detachment get fear.

or

1 Vrosh Tatertot
2 units of possessed
1 unit of mutlitors (must have at least two)
1 unit of obliterators (must have at least two)
1-2 units chaos spawn
3-5 Helbrutes (must be the monopose helbrute)
0-1 defiler
0-1 maulerfiend OR forgefiend

Bonus: Vrosh tattersoul and his unit get scout

>>45043793
I prefer Missile pods for the extra range, higher Strength, and better AP.

>>45043793
S7 every time

>>45043804
This post makes me incredibly sad because it seems so plausible.

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>>45043770
An boy can dream

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>>45043061
fuck, i didn't need this at this hour

>>45043844
Haha sorry mate, I'm not really sure how to describe what I feel watching it (the music doesn't help)

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>>45043816
>>45043821
Sick shit
thanks anons

>>45043785
Just got to try and position correctly so you're outside of challenge range but inside pile in range.

>>45043956
Yeah I know, I like the idea but the execution is horrendous, honestly if they just removed that your opponent can challenge in your turn and vice versa I'd be fine

>>45042217
>>45041916
The one with Bjorn and two dreads? It's not amazingly OP (which in some schools of thought that makes it bad) but it's not crippling bad either (which in some schools of thought means it is forgettable). It's really just middle of the pack. If the dreadnoughts used the statlines of the vanilla dreads and have 4A and the ability to squadron up, I can see it being useful maybe? As it stands though? There are better and worse options out there.

>>45041874
Hey Anons. Just played my first game.

Holy shit why did I not get into this sooner.

>>45044030
Usually because it's expensive or because no one you knew played the game. Both are rather potent at discouraging new players from trying out the game

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>>45044030
Well tell us about it you nerd, we're all sad from me posting penguin video

>>45044030
Me, my friend and my dad are getting into it soon, and hopefully we share your experience.

>>45044041
I used to have friends who played, a few years back. However they didn't like anyone using their units.

I have a new friend with 5 different armies that are 2000+.

He let me use his shit, and now I'm fucking hooked.

>>45044052
Aight, give me a few minutes.

>>45043469
Is this ppart of a Lion's Blade strike force or is this a CAD? Because if it's a CAD, why not just lump it into a Lion's Blade Strike force?

>>45044071
Yeah my friends got me into it too. Now I'm still the most addicted 5 years later. Thankfully we got back into it in 7th, one of my friends has ADD, fucking pain in the ass to do anything that takes commitment with him

>>45044071
We were playing the last part of the campaign he was playing about a year ago.

The scene was his Space Marines were now leaving a planet after destroying a warp point (or something. I have some lore-learning to do) leaving Orks and some Chaos stranded since all their ships were kill.

We succeeded, a friend of mine (his first time playing too) manned his SM together. While he controlled the Chaos and Orks.

It was 2000 points per side, my buddy and I vs him. We won 15 victory points vs 2. Space Marine Bikers a dope.

>>45044170
Haha if you like bikes then you should look into White Scars, basically all bikers army

>>45044084

It's the Lion's Blade Double Demi at 1850.

Sorry that wasn't more clear.

>>45043469
Anon, this isn't 5th Ed anymore, why would you take more than 2-3 tac/scout squads?

>>45044222

Free Transports, BS4 overwatch, and it's an excuse to paint and finish the 100 Power Armoured dudes I've had sitting in a box for a few years.

Also because Ravenwing is so strong that I'm having trouble getting games, can't play Deathwing since RAW makes them autolose now that they don't get T1 Deepstrike.

>>45043462
>Friend bitches endlessly about imperial knight I've used against him twice.
>Still bitching six months after he blew it up first turn with a split firing über suit squad that also knocked out my sicarian at the same time.

Does the moonscape terrain count as difficult terrain or can you move your dudes normally on it?

>>45044418
>>Friend
theres your problem

>>45044198
Why not get Razorbacks instead of rhinos? You get more firepower out of the deal and you can combat squad the plasma cannons to sit outside like a pseudo devs

Making a Green Tide army sometime soon; is this how it should be done, or am I fucking up?
95 Shoota Boyz, Warboss with a bosspole and power klaw, 5 nobz with power klawz, and a painboy. Beyond that, I was thinking of complementing it with some tankbustas and lootas (one squad each). Should I upgrade the lootas with anything, or are they good flat? Should I get a lucky stick on the boss for the weapon skill?

Also, I want an opinion; What's the FUNNIEST ork klan? Goffs are cool to me, being the biggest and most brutal, but I like orks because they're effective but also hilarious.
Is it deathskullz, stealing everyone's shit, painting it blue, and using it against them? Blood axes with their outfits and "camouflage"? Bad Moons being rich because they literally knock the teeth out of each other?

>>45044457
terrible friends are worth keeping around; you know who to get rid of first in times of disaster

>>45044496
I hope you mean BIG BOSSPOLE and not just regular Bosspole, also you can't take Lucky stikk on that boss as he no longer has access to it. Would need to use a Warboss from Ork Codex.

>>45044458

I've found I get a lot more utility firing 3 weapons a round out of Rhinos than I do with a twinlinked heavy bolter. More survivable too, than standing the combat squadded guys outside the armour.

>>45042118
A 27 point crisis suit doesn't have any guns retard. A crisis suit with two guns is 57 points

>>45044525
Sorry, I'm new to orks. Whichever one gives fearless to the whole unit. The lucky stick was a recommendation from someone else, so I guess that wasn't fully correct.
Everything else look okay, though?

>>45044577
>22 points base
>5 point burst cannon

>>45042716
Excommunication is only a thing when execution is not immediately available as an option (E.g. When declaring someone traitor or heretic but you aren't actually sure where they are right now...)

>>45043138
Almost as many as can be killed by a bolter or shoota. Most vehicles are AV10 on the back.

>>45044496

Personally, if you're planning on running the Warboss in a Green Tide with the Big Bosspole (which you absolutely should), I wouldn't put anything other than that an 'Eavy Armour on him. The reason is that he must accept and issue challenges if he is the Warlord, thanks to the terrible Ghazghull supplement special rules. And any half-way decent tooled up character will cut a Warboss to pieces, and there goes Fearless for the entire Tide.

You can always go for more Power Klaws, but I've never run a full 10 since I find it overkill. The weakness of the Tide is that if it can be tarpitted, you leave the rest of the enemy's army free to claim objectives, so you need some other elements.

Lootas are a good choice, and don't need upgrades. You can buy an Aegis Line with an Ammo Dump for them if you like, which comes out to 70 points extra, but they gain a 4+ cover save that can turn into a 2+ if they go to ground, plus rerolling all 1's on shooting.

Tankbustas are great, but need a transport. This is a bit of a tricky one, since one of the biggest advantages of the Tide is that it negates your opponent's AT weaponry. Grav, plasma, Railguns, Haywire, melta; it's all worthless against the Tide. if you start throwing in lots of vehicles, you lose this advantage.

On the other hand, tankbustas can deal with stuff that really hurts the tide, like Gargantuan Creatures and Super-heavy walkers. It's a trade-off. My current Tide list runs a Biker death-star alongside it.

>>45044615
You have to look in the Ghazgkhull supplement, where the Green Tide formation is located, and see the Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz section. Because you're taking a Warboss in this formation his access to relics is changed so he can onlychoose from Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz, and not the other relics.

If you want to take a Lukky stikk you'll need to take a standard CAD or Ork Horde Detachment, and then buy another Warboss and equip him with it.

>>45044666
>The reason is that he must accept and issue challenges if he is the Warlord,

Only if he is within range to issue and accept* which he shouldn't be in a 100 man mob.

>>45044550
As you will. Other than that there's not much to comment on. I suppose if you could find the points to make your captain suck less that would be great but that's more of a luxury than a requirement. The captain could probably die and you won't lose anything of real value in this list. You look solid.

Also it's full BS overwatch with the lion's blade.

Well

I just caved and bought my third flyrant after having two for about a year

how big of a dick am I?

>>45044699

Yes, and that's why you run him naked except for armour and the Big Bosspole. You keep him the hell away from the action and hope you wipe out whatever you're fighting before the Boss piles in enough to swing.

>>45042077
Oh wow, I actually think you have more orks than me, rare to see that and in greater variety.

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Ork dream relics.

1 - Da Finkin Cap

2 - Da Lucky Stikk

3 - Big Bosspole

4 - Da Supa-Cybork

5 - Mega Force Field

6 - Headwoppa's Killchoppa

A model can take any of the following

>>45044620
Why not take a stealth suit instead?
Same firepower, but smaller profiles and cover saves on top.

>>45044701

Cool, thanks for the feedback

>>45044745
Make the BB and Supa Cybork cost half as much and maybe

>>45044577
>A 27 point crisis suit doesn't have any guns
Wrong
>A crisis suit with two guns is 57 points
Wrong
>retard
Like Pottery

Can the Skitarii/Cult Mech stand up to Tau assuming the Tau isn't being a Riptide Spamming Cheesemaster?

Someone I know might be getting Tau in the future and I kinda was hoping that SkitMech would be fair for both of us.

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I have a hunger

That only monstrous creatures can satisfy

>>45044892
War Convo can keep up with riptide/crisis spam tau unless the tau player is really, really good. So yes, but be prepared to field a superheavy if he ends up being a cheesemonger

>>45044907

Post more pics. Considering a similar scheme for my nids.

I'm going all swarm though.

Continuing from yesterday's analysis... Part one of two

>Chaos Space Marine
(1 / (1/2 * 1/3 * 1/3)) / 13 = 1.38 "Lasgun Health" per point, as fired by BS3
(1 / (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/3)) / 13 = 0.69 "Bolter Health" per point, as fired by BS4
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 1/1)) / 13 = 0.14 "Plasma Health" per point, as fired by BS4

>Cultist
(1 / (1/2 * 1/2 * 5/6)) / 4 = 1.2 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 2/3 * 1/1)) / 4 = 0.56 BHPP
(1 / (1/2 * 5/6 * 1/1)) / 4 = 0.6 PHPP

>Mark of Nurgle Cultist
(1 / (1/2 * 1/3 * 5/6 )) / 6 = 1.2 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/1 )) / 6 = 0.5 BHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 1/1 )) / 6 = 0.3 PHPP

>Mark of Tzeentch Cultist
(1 / (1/2 * 1/2 * 5/6)) / 5 = 0.96 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6)) / 5 = 0.54 BHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 5/6)) / 5 = 0.43 PHPP

>Mark of Nurgle Chaos marine
(1 / (1/2 * 1/6 * 1/3)) / 16 = 2.25 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 1/3 * 1/3)) / 16 = 0.84 BHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 1/1)) / 16 = 0.11 PHPP

>Mark of Slaanesh + Icon of Excess (Ten Man Squad)
(1 / (1/2 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/2)) / 18 = 2 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2)) / 18 = 1 BHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 1/1 * 1/2)) / 18 = 0.2 PHPP

>Mark of Slaanesh + Icon of Excess (Twenty Man Squad)
(1 / (1/2 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/2) / 16.5 = 2.18 LHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2) / 16.5 = 1.1 BHPP
(1 / (2/3 * 5/6 * 1/1 * 1/2)) / 16.5 = 0.22 PHPP

Offense is much harder to calculate as there are a lot of scenarios.
BS3 Autopistol (and melee) vs MEQ = 0.06 WPA
BS3 Autopistol (and melee) vs GEQ = 0.17 WPA
BS4 Bolt pistol vs MEQ = 0.11 WPA
BS4 Bolt pistol vs GEQ = 0.44 WPA
MEQ Melee vs MEQ = 0.08 WPA
MEQ Melee vs GEQ = 0.22 WPA

If we assume 1 pistol shot, and a charging attack (1 A + 1 (CCW) + 1 Charging Bonus)
CSM vs MEQ = 0.35 Wounds per model during maximum attack
CSM vs GEQ = 1.10
Cultist vs MEQ = 0.24
Cultist vs GEQ = 0.68

>>45044907
>only one carnifex
shame upon your ancestors

>>45044938
Part two of two

So there you have it. Unless used as a budget scoring unit, Cultists are an offensive unit, not a defensive one. At their best, they are better per point at killing than your basic Chaos Space Marines, but they are very fragile. If the enemy is spamming low AP high STR weapons like plasma cultists are also a pretty good choice since a plasma gun will kill a space marine just as easily as it will kill a cultist, but a cultist costs less points per model.

But what about Chosen? They get the pretty unique bonus of +1 A over a normal Chaos Space Marine. They also get the unique bonus of getting a close combat weapon for free without losing their bolter.
>Pistol then charge
Chosen vs MEQ = 0.43 / 18 = 0.024
Chosen vs GEQ = 1.32 / 18 = 0.073
>Rapid fire then overwatch then counterattack
Chosen vs MEQ = (3 * 0.08 + 2 * 0.11 + 2 * (1/6 * 1/2 * 1/3)) / 18 = 0.0286
Chosen vs GEQ = (3 * 0.22 + 2 * 0.44 + 2 * (1/6 * 2/3 * 1/1)) / 18 = 0.0979

Chosen are... well, As they are. The fact that they get their CCW and still keep their bolter is pretty cool, but their bolter is kind of just a better weapon than the CCW.

>Bolter Chaos Space Marines rapid firing then overwatching then getting one attack
vs MEQ = (1 * 0.08 + 2 * 0.11 + 2 * (1/6 * 1/2 * 1/3)) / 13 = 0.0274
vs GEQ = (1 * 0.22 + 2 * 0.44 + 2 * (1/6 * 1/2 * 1/3)) / 13 = 0.0888

So at their peak, Bolter CSM are slightly better than Melee CSM, and off their peak, Bolter CSM can shoot at stuff as where Melee CSM and Melee Cultists can't. Arguably, being locked into an assault is a little safer as it protects against shooting, but that is debatable.

>>45044751
The only reason I brought it up in the first place was for comparison purposes.

Obviously you shouldn't just stick a single Burst cannon on a Crisis suit and call it a day

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Any help on this little project of mine?

>>45043558
Most decurion Core's tend to feature a
1 HQ
0-1 "kingsguard" elites
~3 core troops
1 fast attack squadron
1 Heavy Support more iconic that good
And a slot based on the specific army's general theme

>>45043956
>Just got to try and position correctly so your Nob/Warboss can hide like a grot.

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>>45044935
Heres the swarmlord. I rushed him a bit, i need to go back and touch up

>>45044944
But hes so tiny compared to the other guys, it feels weird. I only have the Stonecrusher because the rules are too good to pass on. I cant get another because then i would need to use another Heavy slot if I wanted to put him in a pod as well, and im already doubled down on my CAD as it is. Now I'm trying to fill out formations to take the load off my heavy slots

>>45044986
If he dies like a grot then he's gonna hide like a grot.

>>45044439
Selfbump

>>45044986
>Warboss
>Nobz/MEgas
>4 Boyz squads
>Dakkajet
>Kill Kanz (GW cant jerk these off enough while also nerfing them)
>I dunno, stormboyz probably

>>45044998
>But hes so tiny compared to the other guys, it feels weird
honestly, i kind of like that carnifexes are smaller, its like they dont have anything redundant and they're just straight up muscle fibre

>>45045041
I wouldnt mind an update to the model to make them like 30-50% larger, while also improving their rules a bit. Bump them up to 6 wounds like all the other big boys, and give them a 2+

>>45044973
Not a huge fan of the split.

It seems done along battlefield roles like some organized imperial gitz and not along cultural sub-groups which is is the orky way.

>>45044938
>>45044948
tl;dr

>Cultists are best used as one the following:
Backfield objective holders that never come under fire
A counter to tons of high strength, low AP attacks.
A glass cannon offensive unit that is carefully positioned to allow the whole blob to actually attack.

>Other things
Chosen are kind of just OK
CSM are much better at defense for the points than Cultists
Mark of Excess CSM are very tough indeed
Don't take away their bolters
And don't give marks to Cultists

>>45045063
>implying a goodwin design isn't perfect
The carnifex doesn't need to be larger. It's an organic dreadnought.

>go on Steam
>see midweek madness for 40k stuff
>see all these 40k vidya I've never seen before
>notice...
>Talisman: Horus Heresy

Huh.... Looks interesting.

>>45045141
I just want a melee tyrannofex

If the Carnifex is a dreadnought, I want the Carnifex equivalent of an Imperial Knight

A freak giant Carnifex LoW would cool as hell

>>45045144
GW is going full retard on the shovelware lately

I guess they think if they flood the apple store and google play with enough shit it'll bring people into the hobby

>>45045156
So you want a Hierodule, good news they exist!

>>45045156
Nids need a 7th edition update, so I guess they'll be getting their own LoW next time. The last update they got was for Shield of Baal, where they got all those models.

So, yeah, think that's when they'll get it. We're still missing 7th IG though.

IG
Scions
CSM
Daemons
SoB
Nids

they're the ones we're missing currently, not in any particular order.

>>45045122
Any new discoveries or did you just mathhammer numbers to support existing knowledge?

>>45045156
>hierodule
That said, the proper equivalent ought to be a Trygon Prime as a GC, with the hierodule somewhere between that and a Warhound

>>45045164
The Hierodules are so boring, both their models and rules

>>45045161
Not really shovelware, it's £20, it looks well done. It seems to be a simple card based campaign game. I like those type of games.

Total War: Warhammer
Battlefleet Gothic: Armada
Space Hulk: Deathwing
Eternal Crusade

Those are not shovelware. Freeblade will probably come to PC at some point as well.

>>45044973
>Unit tax of an warboss to take what ever you want forever
>boring ass names
>unimaginative formations
I don't even want to know what are the formation bonuses.

>>45045170
>Scions

Why not Legion of the Damned too?

>>45045186
>Eternal Crusade
uuuhhhhh

>>45045164
>>45045182
>>45045185
They're in FW books only. He's meaning the equivilent of a Gorkanaut/Knight Titan/Stormsurge/Baneblade in the regular codex.

I don't see the problem with that. There is lots of named-but-no-model Nids like Dominatrix which could fill that slot. I think each dex should have a LoW option and LoW HQ.

>>45045141
>organic dreadnought

Does it have a little, half-dead hormagaunt inside to control it?

>>45045195
Have you actually played it? Cause I have. It's Space Marine MP. Check Steam reviews as well.

Protip Shovel =! games I don't like.

>Shovelware is a derogatory computer jargon term that refers to software bundles noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness.

And since that isn't what Eternal Crusade is, it is by literal definition, not shovelware.

>>45045178
There is a common myth out there that cultists are tougher than CSM. They are not. Maybe most people knew that already.

I didn't expect cultists to be more offensive though. Too bad they can't take any transport options so getting them into the assault is never going to happen.

Chosen are one of my favorite units due to their high number of attacks while retaining their ranged weapon, but in terms of efficiency they are kind of just OK. Not terrible, just OK.

>>45045210
Dominatrix is basically the alpha alpha of the alpha is it not?

Also

>Gorkanaut/Knight Titan/Stormsurge/Baneblade

One of these things is not like the other.

>>45045210
Hence me saying the Trygon Prime ought to be a GC LOW

>>45045122
I didn't check but where is the math for cultists having a cover save? Because I 've never seen cultists not have 4+ cover from being in a ruin where they should be

>>45045246
Is it? Well whatever, have something else. Lots of cool shit to do with Nids.

As for your comment.... Knight Titan? They have their own book? It'd be silly to put them in every Imperial book. Or did you mean Gorkanaut for being shit?

>>45045252
Yup. Or, you know, something new. Doesn't really matter. Nids have lots of directions to go in.

>>45045284
>Because I 've never seen cultists not have 4+ cover from being in a ruin where they should be
I wish I was playing at your tables then, because the tables I play on generally have no cover, just a few LoS blocking pieces in the corners where they don't affect the game

>>45045291
I mean the Gorkanaut not being a Super Heavy. It's just a walker.

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>Still no reliable information on a CSM update
>Half of my LGS don't even want to play against me if I feild IA13 units because "FW is OP"
>My other army is Orks.

Just kill me now.

>>45045229
Yeah, cultist's aren't tougher, they are just more cost effective when S7+ ap 2/3 starts flying.

As for the offense, it's grot theory.
If the enemy has armour saves to protects them, sheer number of shot wins
If the enemy does not have armour saves, sheer number of shots win.
Bolters only win out against GEQ and even then the difference is minimal.

And yeah, Chosen are pretty much Nobz, S8 pies piss though their armour and murder them too.

>>45045284
In the grim darkness of the 7th edition only old armies doesn't ignore cover.

>>45045298
You seriously need to change this. The game is pretty fun with tables full of terrain because then you can actually play with tactics and stuff.

Battlefleet Gothic: Armada is up for preorder
Do I pull the trigger? I can barely remember the last time I've been so hype for a game.

>>45045298
Just do as I do, buy an ADL.
4+ cover for all your guys and you can even have a great AA gun for you HQ to main.

>>45045325
>>45045321
that's why ZM is best

Kinda want to dust off the old jungle fighting rules from 3rd. I remember them being a ton of fun.

>>45045321
Ignore cover is still limited to a few units per army. Tau is pretty much the only exception but they've been like that for years.

>>45045195
In case you haven't heard, Namco are publishing it now and have shovelled hehe money into it to get it finished in a decent amount of time.

>>45045304
Isn't it a LoW thou?

>>45045379
No, it's a Heavy support walker.

>>45045379
No .

>>45045373
It is actually pretty fun. If you liked Space Marine's MP, you'll like Eternal Crusade. I'm still holding off buying shit, I played using my mates account.

>>45045325
I remember in earlier editions (way back when) back before there was true line of sight there were all kinds of forests and stuff. Sure, the forests were often 8.5" by 11" in size and suspiciously flat, but it made for a more interesting game.

>>45045341
>come closer so I can hit you with my sword while standing in my barricade

>>45045379
Nah, 'eavy support, nearly 300 points and in just about every batrep I've watched them being used in they've been focused down turn one for looking scary.

>>45045387
>>45045390
Well, disregard that part of my post, I suck cocks.

Guess Orks need a LoW then? They were first 7th, right? We'll see, I hope they do get something good. Orks are awesome and if you like hobbying, they're glorious making scratch built and conversions and shit. But maybe that's why nobody cares if you use them... cause they're so poo.

Give Flash Gitz an option to get +1S or -1AP if they pay some points, give them 'Ard Armour and there we go.

>>45045298
This is factually the wrong way to play Warhammer 40k.

>>45045413
They have the stompa, which costs 770 points and is inferior to an Imperial Knight. Thats why Dred mob is popular, with its 400 point stompa you can be not-shit

>>45045396
>Dumping any amount of points into your HQ as CSM if you aren't going the DP route.

You are doing it wrong. Take a Chaos Lord, give him maybe an invuln and stick him into a blob of cultist to give them fearless. BAM : 80~ pts required HQ manning the quadgun with BS5. You can dump your points on better stuff like Heldrakes and a bunch of Obliterators.

>>45045413
They DO have a Lord of War. The problem is that for the pre-Eldar codices a LoW mean "take the most important named character and make him LoW".
Ghazkull, Logan Grimnar, Dante... are all LoW

>>45045220
I'm pretty sure that some organic components in a carnifex were a hormagaunt at one point.

>>45045416
and it drives me crazy

I have a lot of fear of being tabled on the first or second turn and sometimes that gets in the way of even playing the game at all

>>45045393
I bought it way back last year like a retard, my PC is fucked right now though so I've not played it yet.

>>45045396
The other thing was that you could only see something like 3" into a forest, any troops hiding inside could not be targeted by your troops, but I think you could target a forest with artillery and the like. The other thing is you couldn't shoot out of forests effectively either.

That is until they brought out the catachans codex who got rules to do with placing more forests and being able to shoot out of them with ease amongst other rules to do with units in reserve appearing inside forests all over the place. Broken as fuck.

>>45045396
In 7ed while the inherent terrain rules are sparse barring some building and ruin rules, the book does encourage you to make your own terrain dataslates with custom terrain rules so if you liked the old terrain rules you should incorporate them back in.

>>45045396
>back before there was true line of sight
I hate how we're stuck with this shit forever. Fuck, TLoS is fucking terrible unless you're playing a skirmish game.

>>45045357
But according the the whine hyperbole there is no cover because everyone has 18 Wyverns from a token IG detachment.

>>45045448
The Stompa is a LoW too. And it's shit, 700 points for something actually weaker than an IK.

Orks are shit on the table generally speaking anyway.

>>45045443
770 points stock, without it's practically mandatory upgrades.

>>45045451
Set up some fucking terrain then. What are they gonna do? Unless they're gigantic assholes no ones gonna say anything.

If they say something go elsewhere.

>>45045471
That's just it, GW writers still think 40k is a skirmish game, "Just evolved".

>>45045486
This, If they don't want just leave. At this point it's better to play at GW's instead.

>>45045502
no, alessio just likes TLoS and no one has bothered to change it since he left

>>45045312
The people at your LGS are faggots.

I have never and will never refuse to play anyone. And of the 12 or so people I regularly play against only one has a reputation for refusing because he can't stand to lose.

>>45045522
I think they are just salty because they can't afford resin models.

>>45045450
They're ripper strain I think.

>>45045538
That's even less of a fucking reason in hobby about painting and playing with severely overpriced army men.

>>45045551
>people can be stupid
wow, news at 11

>There are people right now in this thread who don't put down any LoS block.
>There are people who play on boards were being able to set up a gunline and having full visibility across the entire map is a "standard game"

No wonder ya'll suck.

>>45045563
You can reasonably expect 1 out of 10 people to be mouthbreathing retards. If it's all of them, then there is a problem.

>>45045566
I try to set up LoS block but then someone can see 1/16th of my warboss's foot through gaps in 3 buildings then annihilates me

>>45045443
But is the Stompa in the codex or is it FW only?

>>45045448
I meant no-character LoW.

>>45045465
Shame anon. If you ever played Space Marine MP, it's like that. Like a 3rd person Battlefield.

>>45045551
Well, to be fair... In 1990, a box of Tactical Marines cost £2.50 less (if you apply inflation) to what they do now. Difference is, now you get more options, more weapons, more bitz.

So, in reality, nothing has changed much. All model companies are overpriced, GW isn't anything special in that regard.

>>45045566
I know right. Last game I had so much terrain that I had 2 carnifex waltz into my backfield with only one round of shooting at them. It was a bloodbath. God I love dense fucking terrain.

>>45045594
Its in the codex, but its almost as bad as Nob Bikers for its points costs

>>45045582
You can literally expect half of all people to be dumber than average.

>>45045612
Marines aren't really a good exemple, a better one is the 20 man boxes being cut to 10, but the price only cut to 70%
Or the 10 man boxes that got the same. treatment, while their codex units still have 10 man minimum.

Or the way they apply hot-dog theory to units with mandatory sergeants with no alternate builds, insufficient special/heavy weapons.

Just got back into it and all the online recast sites are gone..

Where can I get me some cheap ones from china?

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Went over the Orkz a second time, running the numbers. I'm much more happy with what I have now.

Barring the inevitable backlash about everything, how's draft 1 for the Orkz? Starts on page 17.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D3McsA8eGVenhHWgUph8_ftWpJChVubTa24BTyZWWh4/edit

>>45045848
go to yoyhammer and find out yourself, mr gw man

>>45044751
>autism

>>45045866
What is it?
A Fapfic?

>>45045916
>inbreeding

>>45042077

>huge army, only a handful painted.

Come on dude, why are you even in this hobby?

>>45045921
Homebrew
Rebalance
-1st Edition

Take yer pick.

the hobby shop near me is selling imperial knights for £50 what do?

>>45045980
you buy a dozen, build and paint them, and sell them for 120 each

>playing Eternal Crusade
>loyalists can't get their shit together, rampant team killing and no one knows how to play their class or take a point
>chaos is all fucking Night Lords and edgy faggots who somehow know how to play as a team

What fucking world am I living in.

What if GW does a simple re-package of a new Ork dex, what would be the verdict from Ork players?
Its been a thing of late I feel, that GW "new" releases of Codex is simply adding digital Photoshop pics from some random anon, a few pages of fluff and copy-paste the rules, then ad on a formation or two.

How would this affect the player base of one of the worst dexes out now? And would you be surprised?

>>45046082
The reaction would be pretty unanimously "this is what we expected". Tau got a rebranded old codex with a few changes, SW are bound to be getting the same next month, Orks being such an early release, if they actually get one, will have much of the same.

>>45046115
Yeah, I also have the feeling campaign books much like the tau ones will be the way early 7th codices get updates. Shame really because you can't fuck around with point costs much that way.

>>45046082

Both my factions got a slew of terrible to mediocre formations with only one or two gimmick ones, often just used for other people's armies.

So yeah I wouldn't be surprised, but some new ones that don't suck or a Decurion would help a lot.

>>45046082
>What if GW does a simple re-package of a new Ork dex, what would be the verdict from Ork players?

Cheap shit, should have been a FAQ, or a patch add-on like mont'ka

>How would this affect the player base of one of the worst dexes out now?

Depends how it is.


>And would you be surprised?

Yeah, releasing a new codex for a 7th edition army would mean they admit it was flawed, not a GW habit.

GW are like a government in that, better to have a minority suffer and complain than admit any wrongdoing and let everyone know you failed.

Rate my marine list. I think I've got a good balance but I kind of want a dreadnought in the list somewhere.

Exorcists 1850pts
Chapter Tactics: Unknown (Star Phantoms)

Primary Detachment (Exorcists)

Chapter Master 245pts (warlord)
- Thunder Hammer
- Shield Eternal
- Artificer Armour
- Jump Pack
- Digital Weapons

Scout Squad 105pts
- Bolt Pistols & CCW
- Camo Cloaks
- Land Speeder Storm

Tactical Squad 190pts
- 10 models
- Flamer
- Combi-Flamer
- Drop Pod

Scout Bike Squad 69pts
- Melta bombs
- Locator Beacon

Scout Bike Squad 69pts
- Melta bombs
- Locator Beacon

Stalkers Squadron 225pts
- 3 Stalkers

Skyhammer Annihilation Force 940pts
Assault Squad 205pts
- 10 models
- Jump Packs
- Veteran Sergeant: Eviscerator

Assault Squad 205pts
- 10 models
- Jump Packs
- Veteran Sergeant: Eviscerator

Devastator Squad 265pts
- 10 models
- 2 Multimeltas
- 2 Grav-Cannons with Grav Amps
- Drop Pod

Devastator Squad 265pts
- 10 models
- 2 Multimeltas
- 2 Grav-Cannons with Grav Amps
- Drop Pod

>>45046186
Why camo cloaks on a melee unit?

>>45046186
Why do you have camo cloaks and a LSS on CC scouts?
Why scouts AND tacticals?
Scout bikers are inferior to normal bikes, run them instead, the locators do nothing since the skyhammer arrives turn 1 automatically
>skyhammer
Unless you play in a competitive meta, enjoy not playing any games-people near me hate that one
>mixed weapons in dev squad
you dense motherfucker, run all grav for results or all melta to be not made of cheddar.

All in all its an average list using a cheese formation to make up for a mediocre everything else.

>>45046186
>>45046223
oh, and drop the eviscerators on the sergeant and take meltabombs instead

>>45046186
>stalkers

Why ? If you want AA take a Stormtalon squadron. They are much better.

>>45046267
Maybe he owns stalkers but no flying bricks?

>>45046186
Why do you fucks insist on writing out the exact same unit over and over again all the time? I'm not reading that shit.

>>45046287
>flying bricks

That's the Stormraven, Stormtalons have a pretty good design imo.

>>45046316
not him, but with an upgrade kit ravens are salvagable, whereas talons look like flying potatoes

>>45046316
>Stormtalon
You mean sponsonsception?

>>45046324
>>45046340

Let's just agree to disagree then, I like them a lot, you can even convert them to make pretty convincing choppers.
The fact that they are ridiculously good on the table helps too.