MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - Parks and Rec Edition

Evening bump.

Sorry, have not played in over a decade: Will be playing FNM for my first time since 2002 this Friday.

Do only creatures suffer from summoning sickness? So If I have an artifact equipment, can I cast it, then pay the equip cost on the same turn, is that legal?

Thanks. Im sure I'll have more.

>>45038318
>>45038318
Also, if I have a planeswalker with 4 loyalty points on it, and someone attacks it with a 5/5 trample, does that additional point of damage hit me if I have no additional blockers?

>>45038318

Only creatures have summoning sickness

>>45038397

Only creatures can block, when a creature with trample out damages a blocker's toughness, that damage tramples over onto the player

However if they have a planes walkers, you can redirect damage from a player to a planes walkers that player controls

>>45038318
Everything technically has summoning sickness, but it only MATTERS for creatures.

And even then, it only matters for attacking and abilities with the Tap or Untap symbol.

>>45038397
Nope.

>>45038397
>Anonymous 01/26/16(Tue)20:49:10 No.45038397 ▶>>45038518
>>45038397
THank you. So I am still a little off. Cant the opposing player decalre they are attacking my PW?

>>45038645
Yes, they can. In fact, that's how they attack planeswalkers.

>>45038518
Only NONCOMBAT damage.

>>45038645

Oh shit I misexplained

For non combat damage, you use the redirect rule

For combat damage, the attacker declares they are swinging on the planes walkers, and no matter how much damage they do or if they have trample, none will carry over to the controller of the planeswalker

>>45038645
They can attack your planeswalker, but even if they have trample excess damage won't spill over to you the player.

>>45038708
>>45038708
Awesome, thanks!

I apologize, I have not played since the Invasion cycle, just touched Odyssey. So I am relearning all that I can now since it has been 12+ years since I played. Planeswalkers, Mythics, this and that, I have no fucking clue. I have a general idea and will be playing in FMN for my first time since 2002-sih and I am excited. Hopefully my opponents dont care that I'll be slow.

>>45038817
It'll come pretty quick. Don't sweat it too hard.

A friend of mine told me
>if you have a card that says "target player blah blah" you can target a player at a tournament/event you aren't even playing against way across the room. So that's why they are changing it to target opponent
Is that true?

>>45038708
>>45038708
ALso, for Legendary creatures and cards, I can play different legendary creatures, and only have 1 of each on the board, but I cannot play a second one with the same NAME, not creature type?

Thanks guys, I do appreciate this thread.

Would Animar, Soul of Elements cause Endless One to come in as a 0/0 if Animar had 10 +1/+1 counters on it, or would it come in as a 10/10?

>>45038856
No. Not even remotely. Your friend is lying to you and you are a silly person for believing him.

>>45038868
NAME, correct. Legend rule only cares about exact name.

>>45038903
Depends on what you said X is.

>>45038949
So if I say X is 10 then I'm good?

>>45038949
Thank you! I should've been more aware. Luckily we were at home playing and not at any event that day.

>>45038988
Yep. X isn't "what you pay", X is "what you declare". That just happens to influence what you pay, generally.

>>45039043
Sweet, thanks!

So if somebody activates an ability, and I use an instant speed removal spell on it first, what thing procs?

Since my spell is instant speed and on the stack, would it kill his creature before the ability went off?

>>45039218
Nothing 'procs'. That word means nothing in Magic.

Second, there's no such thing as 'speed'.

Third, by the time you can respond, his ability is already on the stack.

Fourth, it WILL kill his creature before the ability resolves, but abilities on the stack exist independent of the source.

Never got answered last thread.

I have a judge at the store I go to every other week who's usually very nice, but gets salty when hes doing poorly. For example, one time he had to mulligan to four cards, and when I said I was sorry he had to do so, he snapped back "if you were really sorry you would forfeit the game."

We don't really have a lot of banter between us since I don't know him outside of Magic, is this considered okay for a judge to behave?

>>45039218
>>45039218
1. your opponent activates an ability off of a creature that deals 2 damage to you
2. You then cast an instant that deals 5 damamge to his 4/4 creature

Yours resolves first off the stack, killing his creature, before his creature does 2 damamge to you

>>45039247
Alright so for sake of example, if my opponent had an Elves of the Deep Shadow and tapped it for the black, and then I responded by using complete disregard on it, would the mana still go into my opponent's pool?

And sorry about the procs thing, it's still a word in my vocabulary from a dark period of my life known as yugioh.

>>45039324
Ah there we go. Ty.

>>45039324
>>45039324
It resolves this way because your oppnent does not do anything else, and neither do you. If your oppenent then counters your instant it would go like this.

He countered your 5 damage
then his creature would do two damage to you

>>45039300
It's really not. I'd raise an eyebrow at consistent aggression from a non-Judge, and we hold Judges to a higher standard when they're involved directly with Magic stuff. From the Judge Code of Conduct:

"A judge should create a welcoming environment. Judges have the same responsibilities as all members of the Magic community to avoid actions which could reasonably be expected to cause someone else to feel harassed, threatened, bullied, or stalked. They have additional responsibility to act positively to create environments where these behaviors are not accepted and all members of the Magic community can feel welcome. Judges should not allow others to create a bad environment by inaction. Judges should not express views that would make other members of the Magic community feel unsafe or unwilling to attend an event where that judge was on staff."

I'd advise step one to be "talk to him when he's not salty". Express your concerns about his taking things personally. If he continues to have issues, report his behavior via the Feedback Form, so the "powers that be" can help address and fix the issue.

>>45039338
You actually couldn't even respond to that. Mana abilities don't use the stack, resolve instantly, and can't be responded to.

But if it were a Prodigal Pyromancer, killing it wouldn't prevent it from pinging the target.

>>45039324
It does resolve 'before' the creature deals 2, but it doesn't STOP it. The creature will still do 2 damage from the ability.

>>45039338
He would still get the mana. Things on the stack exist even if the source that put it there doesn't.

>>45039460
Isn't the guy considered a player when he's playing, not a judge?
I know alot of friendly guys who become cutthroat assholes when playing, and it never once made me think less of them.

>>45039460
>>45039460
Really? I thought that doing the damage to the creature would kill it before his resolves.

>>45039324
>>45039589
don't give advice if you don't know the rules.

>>45039367
it's wrong. even if it's ded, it will still deal 2 damage to you.

>>45039582
Basically, even when you're not judging an event, you're still a PART of the Judge program. How you carry yourself, how you behave- you are, willing or not, a representative of the program as a whole. "Judges hold special positions of trust and authority within the community – we enforce the rules, award penalties, and even disqualify players. Appropriately, the community expects judges to act in ways which demonstrate worthiness of that position and authority."

>>45039589
It -does- kill it before the ability resolves.

That doesn't stop the ability from resolving.

>>45039616
>>45039616
I am sorry, I thought I had an understanding of it, thanks for the info.

Hey gA, I'm a rules advisor and I'd like to become a L1. How do I go about it?

>>45039800
My first question would be: Have you been in contact with a local-ish L2? If not- do you KNOW of local-ish L2s?

>>45039589
it kills the creature but that won't stop the ability.

If I throw a grenade at you and you shoot me in the face, yes I'm dead - but the grenade didn't suddenly vanish just because you killed the person who threw it.

>>45039835
I've been playing in the area for a while and been to several stores but I don't actually know if any of the owners, employees, or players on the local scene are L2s (or above).

>>45039875
>>45039875
Thank you, that is a great way to sum it up.

>>45039908
Okay- you're gonna want to contact your region's Regional Coordinator. They'll help put you in contact with an L2 near you who can help you out.

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/contact/contact-a-regional-coordinator/

Were you wanting the rundown of what it 'takes' to test for L1 as well?

>>45039954
Yeah, it would help. I'm pretty well familiarized with the game rules, but I assume I'll have to study tournament procedures and things like that.

>>45039954


THank you again for the help. I have to jet to bed tonight. Thank you for helping me relearn the game after so long. I do appreciate it. I cant wait to play again this Friday!

>>45039996
So, L1's requirements are pretty simple.

>Judge 2 reported events in the past 6 months
Pretty straightforward, this is just to make sure you have some experience with being on the admin side. You can be the "head" judge, or a 'floor' judge. Most likely this'll be something small and simple; an FNM, a draft, helping out at a Game Day or Prerelease, and ideally with your L2 mentor watching to make sure you're not in over your head.

>Brief interview with, and recommendation from, an L2+
Also straightforward. The point of this is to ensure you aren't an absolute dumpsterfire of a human being, and that you don't have any glaring, immediate flaws that would seriously hinder your ability to judge events. As long as you are not, in fact, a dumpsterfire, you should be fine.

>Passing score on the L1 exam
Obv

>Knowledge of tournament structures with experience as a player in DCI-sanctioned tournaments.
Just know how tournaments work from the player side. Know what pairings and match slips are, know what tiebreakers mean (You don't need to know the exact math, just be aware they exist and 'how they work'), know the basics of tournaments, essentially. If you regularly play at stores, you should be fine here.

Explain banding and phasing

>>45040546
>Banding
My guys gang up to be better at fighting than your guys. I choose how your guy deals damage to my band, instead of you choosing. Bands are racist though, so they only let in one token non-banding guy.

>Phasing
During your untap step, take a bucket that says "PHASED OUT" on it and put it upside-down over your Phasing guys. They are now "phased out". They haven't actually GONE anywhere, but as far as the game cares, they don't exist. Next untap step, remove bucket. Repeat.

>>45040658
Banding seems like a cool mechanic if put on the right cards.

>>45041220
It can be, yeah. It fucks combat math up, and it's a 'departure' from the norm, so it's very unlikely to see play in today's Brave New World because it'd make that Limited super weird.

>>45041255
Well, I'm heading to bed. If the thread's alive in the morning I'll address leftover questions- if not, I'll make a new one in the evening when I get home.

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>>45038856
I am flabbergasted you actually believed this for even a slight second

Target player just means you can target yourself instead of an opponent (or a teammate in multiplayer)

People who aren't involved in your game of Magic aren't players in your game of Magic so they're not subject to the rules of your game of Magic

only exception is pic related

>>45039324
While it's true that the creature is killed before it deals damage, it still deals damage anyway because it doesn't have to be living to deal the damage.

>>45039338
Okay so in that situation, it's a mana ability so you can't actually respond to it. It resolves and there's nothing you can do about it. He gets to do whatever he wants with his priority before you get a chance to do anything, because mana abilities don't use the stack and so he never actually gave you priority to do anything on his turn.

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>>45043527

What happens to triggered abilities whose conditions are met in the middle of another effect? I know there's an ability which triggers off a player's hand being empty and will trigger even during Wheel of Fate's effect, but when do they hit the stack and when do they resolve?

>>45045701
They'll trigger, but won't be put on the stack until the effect currently resolving resolves fully. From there, they'll resolve normally like any object on the stack.

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>>45037159

If I put Mirror Mockery on my Wingmate Roc and attack, does the copy get its raid trigger?
I would assume so but I'm no 100% sure.

>>45046444
yes it does

>>45046476

Cool.

>>45045701
What ability are you talking about?

do u have a gf/bf?

Is sacrificing as an additional cost count as targeting?

Also, if you copy arcbond on two different creatures, and one takes damage, the arcbond procs and deals damage to the other arcbond, procing that and dealing damage to the first arconded creature. Does this happen indefinitely or is it a one time thing?

Also why is your tripname homestuck sounding?

>>45050776
Sacrificing never counts as targeting.

From Gatherer:
>If two Arcbonds have resolved targeting different creatures, and damage is dealt to one of them, the delayed triggered ability will cause that creature to deal damage to each other creature and player. This will cause the delayed triggered ability from the other Arcbond to trigger. The second creature will then deal damage to each other creature and player. This will continue until one or both of the creatures die or the game ends. If this doesn’t happen (perhaps because both creatures have indestructible and damage dealt to the players is being prevented), and no player breaks the loop, the game will be a draw
Always check cards for rulings.

I'm not gA, so I can't answer the last question.

How're you enjoying season 7, gA?

>>45050851
So in theory if I get two goblins to have indestructible, as long as I have more life than my opponent, I could win?

Sounds like I need something to give shit indestructible...

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>>45050908
Here's what I'd suggest.

>>45050937
I think I'll definitely mix arcbond with that card in the RWB EDF I am currently developing, but I was thinking putting a couple artifacts in since its a mono red.

If I have Pyromancer Ascension on the field with 1 counter on it then cast my second spell that shares a name with an instant or sorcery in my grave. I get the counter and then I can copy it right?

>>45051437
No. Pyromancer Ascension has two different triggered abilities. The second one doesn't trigger at all unless there are already two counters on the enchantment when you cast your spell.

Dumb question again:

Still figuring out the stack.

If someone declares an attack with a 2/2 and I have a Char that'll instant 4 points of damage, do I kill his creature before his deals damage to me?

THey declare the attacker
I instant the Char

My Char resolves, does that kill his creature and thus 0points to me? Or does his creature do the damage?

Also, if I char at his upkeep on the 2/2 he cannot then declare it as an attacker right away, correct?

Thanks

>>45055051
Right on all counts. You can cast Char before he attacks, after it attacks, or before/after you declare your blockers, and you'll still kill the 2. Because it doesn't survive to assign combat damage, you'll only be hurt by the Char. Combat only happens once after the precombat mainphase, so you can Char during the upkeep or even right before combat starts.

I sacrifice Sultai Emissary to Evolutionary Leap.
Does the Sultai's death trigger happen first?
Liliana, Heretical Healers flip resolves. She is now Planeswalker, my opponent casts a spell to destroy it, do i still have priority to use one of the abilities before opponents spell resolves?

>>45055410
You sacrifice Sultai Emissary as a cost to activate Evolutionary Leap. Evolutionary Leap's ability goes on the stack, then Sultai Emissary's trigger goes on the stack on top of it and will resolve first.

You have the Liliana situation backwards. When her trigger resolves, the active player (it it's your turn, that's you) is the first person to gain priority. You can use Liliana's abilities at this time. Your opponent can then respond to that activation.

>>45055781
>You sacrifice Sultai Emissary as a cost to activate Evolutionary Leap
Therefore Sultai Emissary's trigger happens before Evolutionary Leap's ability has finished being activated.

>>45055828
Triggers don't go on the stack until state-based effects are checked. If you sacrifice something with a "dies" trigger as part of activating an ability, the ability goes on the stack first, then when state-based effects are checked, the "dies" trigger goes on the stack on top of it.

And now I'm home.

I've a question on the new "waste mana" is that <> colorless? or is it it's own type? I ask because some cards ask for <> and I want to know if I can pay with any mana, not just <>

>>45057287
There is no such thing as "waste mana". It is also not new.

Two weeks ago, Sol Ring cost 1 generic mana (meaning you could use any mana, colorless or colored, to cast it) and produced {2}- that is, 2 colorless mana, usable only to pay the generic component of costs (at the time)

Today, Sol Ring costs 1 generic mana, meaning you can use colorless or colored mana to cast it, and it produces {C}{C}- that is, 2 colorless mana, usable to pay the generic component of costs, or to pay for colorless symbols such as on Newzilek.

Colorless mana is not new. It works exactly like it did two weeks ago, it just has a new symbol.

>>45057440
So colorless now has a devotion counter symbol thing?

>>45057489
Yes. Basically we used to use the same symbol (a number in a grey circle) to represent colorless mana (when things MAKE mana), and also generic mana (in costs). With the 'update', they now have a clear demarcation: Colorless mana has the diamond symbol, same as the 5 colors, and generic mana is still just a number in a circle.

>>45057765
Thank you for the help

>>45057765
Wait so why the hell is there a wastes card? Isn't that redundant if it only produces one colorless?

>>45058082
>Why the hell is there a wastes card?
1) To allow them some Limited fun with things like Walker of the Wastes and other cards that care about you controlling the actual card, Wastes

2) To put more common rarity cards that make {C} into people's hands for Limited.

3) To give people who want to build colorless Commander decks an easier manabase than what they've BEEN working with

4) Flavor, son

>>45058082
I found it easier to understand as a "rectangles : squares" thing.

Generic can be paid by any of the 6 mana symbols (including the new diamond) but colorless can only be paid by the diamond. Since anything that produces colorless (by word) produces diamond mana, you need a colorless producer like Wastes or Sol Ring to pay for Eldrazi spells (or others in the future) that use the diamond symbol in casting cost.

>>45040205
>ensure you aren't an absolute dumpsterfire of a human being
hhahauhahuhuaehhaha

>>45058178
i want them to reprint the ORI painlands but with the new anus symbol

>>45058191
wotc refers to it as 'C'
like wubrg, and now C
C for colorless

>>45058635
Fun fact: {C} used to represent the Chaos symbol on Planechase die and they changed it!

>>45058724
that was not fun for me

can i have a new fun fact please

>>45058854
Fun fact: I'm resleeving my decks!

>>45058953
what colors

question: i'm teaching a new player how to play and they get the basics and even most of the rules. the only thing i can't get across to them is the importance of mulligans. No matter what I say or how many games they lose, they 100% refuse to mull. Seriously, they will say "I keep" before drawing their initial hand. How do I get them to accept that mulligans are necessary?

moreover, they call it cheating and get impatient after i mulligan a single time. it's somewhat frustrating for me when it should be such a non-issue.

>>45059086
Often the minimum I look for is "If I never draw any more cards, can I at cast at least one thing"

>>45059086
>What colors
I'm resleeving two of them with the last of my KMC Hyper Matte Blues, and the rest are gonna get redone in Dragon Shield Mattes this weekend when the shop gets more.

>Your question
Continue beating them when they don't mull. Offer to do a 'casual' game where they show you the hand and you advise them on whether or not to mull.

Then again, they seem to think mulliganing is "cheating", so it's probably a waste of your time. I've dealt with people like that- if you manage to sway them on that, they'll come up with some other thing to whine about, like "you bought singles instead of cracking them from packs, that's cheating", or "you run 4 copies of all your cards, that's cheating". Cut your losses.

>>45059284
>Cut your losses.
it's family

thanks for the tips though i'll keep trying

>>45059356
Oh, in that case feel free to beat them soundly across the head with a copy of the CR stapled to a statistics textbook while yelling 'STOP BEING STUPID'

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>>45059396
Wow, way to download the thumbnail gA. Let's try that again.

>>45059459
>read top-left as "Chavs"

>>45059899
Sorry, my Ghave deck is decidedly non-cheeky.

>>45059459
Mtg lurker here, can you explain the names of those decks? Blink sounds particularly hilarious.

>>45059993
All but Blink 187 are just creature names- the Commanders

>Ghave, Guru of Spores
Tokens and The Rock. Getting gutted to build probably Karador soon

>Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Lifegain and tokens

>Treva, the Renewer
Bant Enchantress

>Reaper King
Clone Tribal

>Mizzix of the Izmagnus
SPELLS SON

>Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
Trees n Swords

>Blink 187
Prime Speaker Zegana. Lots of ETB effects. It's also just UG Goodstuff so it bores me to tears.

>>45060102
Happy about the Prophet of Kruphix ban?

>>45060183
Honestly? Yeah. I ran it in Reaper King, Zegana, and Treva, and it's a silly card. In Zegana it was like a fully leveled Lighthouse Chronologist- I just slammed down fatties during everyone's turns and always had countermana up. I'm honestly pretty happy to switch back to Seedborn Muse.

>>45060102
Oh, and if anyone wants the joke names

>Ghave
Ol' Drippy

>Trostani
Weaponized Lifegain

>Reaper King
Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better
Send in the Clones
Great Glone Pagliacci
Attack of the Clones

The other ones don't really 'have' names yet.

>>45044585
This pleases me greatly
I need more

Lurker here, not an active spike but I do know what's what in the formats. Just felt like posting some thoughts-

After I built Chainer, edh I never wanted to build another deck again. Getting infinite mana is easy in mono B and from there looping Gray merchant was the usual wincon. I won so many games that way I decided to retire the deck but I wonder if it's still strong tier 2, of course wouldn't match against the highest generals but in a 'fair' meta he's fun to pilot. I only ever wanted to make Angus Makenzie otherwise and just make either super friends or General etb good stuff.

Speaking of bant etb it seems to me there's a blink deck which simply hasn't been brought into the meta. Finks, blade splicer, curve out with Resto Angel and thragtusk. Id imagine bant for serum visions to smooth your draw and counters as a catch all- against fair grindy decks it would be just undercurve to provide faster value and over the top of agro. With the recent bans removing even more 'unfair' tournament go tos I really want to see this thing made. Might try it myself


The only deck I currently have in modern is faeries and I'm hoping they come up with something to make the tribe relevant. As it is we re only likely missing one or two tools. Treasure cruise and dig were big benefits along with the fetches but now it would only mean some neat on curve tribal piece which could be pushed as it would only benefit one deck


That's all I can think of. Back to lurking unless anyone has related thoughts

>>45061391
Oops I am of course speaking about modern in the whole latter half

>>45061165
Pretty sure that doesn't work since you can only change white, blue, black, red, or green into white, blue, black, red, or green.

>>45061062
>Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better
>Send in the Clones
>Great Glone Pagliacci
>Attack of the Clones

Clononisation?

>>45061985
Sadly I don't think R&D's Secret Lair gets around this problem either

>>45062181
Clone Tribal, yeah. Tons of copy effects.

>>45063224
Aaaaaanyway, I'm tired and I have jury duty tomorrow. I'm gonna get some sleep. See you guys in the morning.

>>45060102
I built a Melek deck right before commander spoils and I was thinking of changing it to Mizzix, what's you opinion of him?

I played against a guy with Mizzix and it was the most boring thing the the world, x-spells forever until you hit enough fireballs+reverberates to win.

>>45061985
It's silver bordered, you can do what you want

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>>45065004 >>45065068
Lets say I'm drafting and I have 6 Serum Powders in a 40 card deck.
If I exile my way through my deck, and try to draw more cards then are left in my deck, do I lose the game even though I'm still deciding whether or not to keep my opening hand?

>>45065226
yes you lose the game.

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>>45061985 Pic related.

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>>45061165
This is technically what you asked for.

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Have you heard the latest JudgeCast?
Because HOLY FUCKING BALLS.

>>45065705
I can't check at the moment just tell me.

I'm building a Kurkesh EDH and I'm wondering. If I use Liquimetal Coating to turn a Planeswalker into an artifact, could I then use Kurkesh to copy the ability of said Planeswalker?

>>45065797
Yes, but the copy won't effect loyalty gain/lose because that's a cost.

>>45065776
Okay, so: That article claiming "multiple leaks across years worth of sets"? Complete bullshit. The "Theft" ring? Bullshit. The suspension of Judges AS JUDGES? Complete and total bullshit, shouldn't have happened at all. The suspension of Judges as PLAYERS? Also total bullshit, even the Judges that ARE still suspended did nothing wrong; the "clarifications" of both the Judging document and the proxy document? BOTH were actually changes and not in any way "how it's always been".
Just go listen, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

>>45065831
That's okay - thanks for clearing that up. I care more about copying the effect of the ability.
Guess this means Rings of Brighthearth will work, too?

>>45065867 Absolutely.
But again, that will only copy the ability, not the cost.

I'd like to confirm a couple of things real quick

with bloodghasts and nether spirit in my graveyard (nothing else) is there a time I can crack a fetch to make nether spirit the only creature in the graveyard, and then bring him back that turn?

also with nether spirit and tabernacle, the way tabernacle is worded, it never affects nether spirit the turn it comes back from the yard right?

>>45065922
>with bloodghasts and nether spirit in my graveyard (nothing else) is there a time I can crack a fetch to make nether spirit the only creature in the graveyard, and then bring him back that turn?
Don't quote me on this, but I think that at the start of your upkeep it's triggered ability goes onto the stack, but it only check's your graveyard once it's resolving.
So if you crack your fetch in response to it's ability you should be fine?
>also with nether spirit and tabernacle, the way tabernacle is worded, it never affects nether spirit the turn it comes back from the yard right?
This should be right. The ability granted by Tabernacle to your creatures will trigger simultaneously with Nether Spirit's triggered ability, so Nether Spirit can't have been in play when the trigger went off.

1) Not in your upkeep no. The Netherspirit has a so-called intervening-if clause, which means that the ability will only trigger if the bloodghast is the only creature card in your graveyard at the beginning of your upkeep, and will check on resolution whether this still holds true. So there is no way you can landfall in your turn before netherghasts checks whether it should trigger or not. (You can ofcourse landfall at the end of previous turn with your fetch).
2) Correct, both trigger at beginning of upkeep, and nether spirit will be on the battlefield after "beginning of upkeep"

>>45065922
see
>>45066183

>>45066183
What if I have a Bloodspirit?

Okay, two things:

If i had 2 Goblinslides on the battlefield and i cast a non-creature permanent, will that activate both cards' abilities in which i can pay (1) each respectively?

the other thing is, if i had say, Rakshasa Vizier, will its ability trigger as a result of me having an amount of cards exiled prior to casting it or i have to exile cards in order for its ability to trigger?

for smothering abominations sac at upkeep ability can i elect to sac a scion then tap the same one for 1 mana?
would that fizzle smothering abominations ability?

>>45067948
>goblinslide
yes 1 non creature spell can activate both

>vizier
you get 1 +1/+1 counter per cards exiled. no, it doesn't count cards already exiled before you cast it.

>>45068219
scions don't tap for mana.

>>45067948
1) Correct you pay in total either 0,1, or 2, for that many goblin tokens. (small nitpick, the ability triggers, an activated ability can be recognized by [cost]:effect (which you activate), a triggered ability can be recognized by starting with When/Whenever/At and triggers when a condition is met)

2) I'm not sure whether I follow but your question is "Does Vizier get bonus for cards exiled before it was on the battlefield?"
The answer is no. Cards abilities only work on the battefield unless stated otherwise.
say you play treasure cruise, delve 7 cards, and then cast Vizier, Vizier will just be a 4/4.
If you cast Vizier, then play dig through time delving 7 cards, you will put 7 +1/+1 counters on Vizier.

>>45067421
What card? Can't find it.
Intervening if clauses can be recognized as
.... COMMA IF CONDITION COMMA....
So an intervening if could be,
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 7 or more cards in your graveyard, do a thing.
or
When Cardname enters the battlefield, if you control a creature with power equal to or greater than four, do a thing.

>>45068219
To answer your question
1) If scions could tap for mana, (lets say it's a lanowar elf):

Abominations triggers (you don't yet have to pick a creature) and its ability goes on the stack
you tap your elf, and get a mana.
you resolve your abominations trigger, this is where you choose a creature to sac, and sac the elf.
The abomination ability does not target, so you can't choose to sac something thats not on the field when the ability resolves. This is relavent for the actual situation, and which was probably your question

2) Can I sac a scion and then sac it to abomination.
No.
Here's how it goes.
Abomination triggers.
You sac your scion, get a mana.
Abomination trigger resolves; you now choose a creature to sac, the scion is no longer on the battlefield, so you'll have to choose something else.

There is no "timing" in which you can both sac the scion for the mana, and sac the scion to the "beginning of upkeep" for the abomination.

>>45068219
cant sac in response to a sacrifice requirement. Its like using the same mana on two instants because one was on the stack

>>45068219
You can't pick a scion to sac to smothering, and then crack it for mana. It's like trying to use the same $1 bill in two different vending machines at the same time.

I am reviewing combat phases and have a few questions:

1.) Opponent attacks with a 2/2 creature
I block with 2 1/1 scions
Before combat damage is settled, I can sacrafice the scions and get the 2 colorless mana? Would that still prevent his 2/2 from damaging me?

2.) Opponent attacks with 3/3
I declare a 2/2 blocker.
Can I then play Awaken the Bear to keep my guy alive and kill his?

Or do I need to Awaken the Bear, then declare him as the blocker?

Thank you again for the help.

This may be a stupid question, but does Herald of Kozilek reduce by generic or by colorless? That is, if I have Herald of Kozilek out and I play Warping Wail, can I use one mana of any color to play it or does it have to be colorless? In the case of a hypothetical card with cost C (not 1, C), could I cast it for free with Herald out?

>>45068491
1. yes you can though you won't kill your opponent's creature. yes it is still blocked unless it have trample.

2. you can do it anytime as long as it's before the combat damage phase.

>>45068534
it will reduce 1, not C.

>>45068603
Aww. That's how I thought it worked, but I was kinda hoping it didn't.

>>45068414
Technically, he can sac in response to the trigger, (even more technically it isn't in response because its a mana ability), but because he'll choose what to sac on resolution (as it does not target), he won't be able to sac the scion to abomination.

What you're and >>45068420
thinking of is sacrificing as a cost, for activated abilities, like viscera seer.

>>45068491
1) Yes and yes, but your opponents 2/2 won't die as it won't take damage, as those scions were dead before combat damage.
Note that if that 2/2 had trample you would take 2 damage.

2) It does not matter which order.
Here's how combat goes:
Your opponent says "I want to attack" (beginning of combat step)
You can respond to that if you want ("I kill your thing with "Whenever this attacks"!)

Then your opponent says: (declare attacks step)
I attack with A, B and C, (and says which of those is attacking you or which of your planeswalkers.)
Things that say "Whenever this attacks" trigger
Your opponents can do tricks(and you can reply)
You can do tricks(and your opponent can reply)
once you agree to no more tricks you go to the next step:
Blocking goes:
you say "these are my guys blocking this" (Declare blockers)
then again
("Whenever this blocks/ becomes blocked triggers")
your opponent can do combattricks (to which you can response),
then you can do combat tricks (to which in turn your opponent can response)
and once you agree to no more tricks
creatures deal damage to eachother and you.
("Whenever this deals (combat) damage to a player triggers")

>>45068534
Generic, that hypothetical card will still cost {C}

>>45068676
cont on combat.

Though this is a very formal way, generally people just say
"Before attacks, destroy that thing with "Whenever this attacks""
"Before blocks, destroy your 0/6"
or "Before damage, cast my awaken the bear"

>>45068603
>>45068676
Thank you!

Once the combat damage step has ended, I cannot then cast awaken the bear to keep him alive since the damage has already resolved?

I have not played since the Odysse block and am relearning everything.

>>45068741
>>45068741
That makes sense. That is how I played way back in the day. I wanted to get a handle on the official phases and how damage/abilities resolve so if there is a dispute.

Thank you! I am pumped to pla again. My first FNM will be tomorrow. I have a feeling I am going to get blown out of the water by a 12year old. Oh well, it'll still be fun.

>>45068763
Correct,creatures have dealt damage and before you can respond, the game checks which things should die, which player should lose life or lose the game, (to use a technical term, 'state-based actions'),and your poor 2/2 is the graveyard, never to awaken.

(Technical note, damage does not "resolve" as in it does not use the stack, it just happens)


if you want to get technical, listen to:
http://judgecast.com/?p=573
it's an podcast for judges and interested peeps, and explains the combat in detail. It's also a really fun podcast in general.

>>45068256 you knew what i meant

>>45068414
>>45068420
>>45068388
Thanks guys

>>45068860
>>45068860
Thank you again, I do appreciate it. I'll have to check that podcast out. I think when I played 12 years ago we had a lose idea of the rules and just enjoyed the game. Now I am back but need to know the technicals.

Thanks!

>>45068860
>>45068860
Im digging the podcast.

>>45069286
Yeah, I'm a great fan, it really has me thinking about becoming a judge, though college live is really busy,

>>45069424
>>45069424
For sure.

A few months ago I was lying in bed and watched a 20 min Vice docu on MTG. The second it was over I knew I had to play again.

Here I am.

I do accounting for a living, have ample free time. I drink like a fish because of it. Decided to semi-stop and get out more. So I am pumped to get out of my 'drinking social circle' and play again.

>>45069628
whatever you do, don't get into commander yet. You'll get right back into drinking, trust me.

That aside, cool to see another accountant doing MTG - though I doubt either of us will have much free time come march and april.

>>45069696
>>45069696
For sure. I got lucky though. I never did public. I went right into private 4 years ago. I went to unknown state school and left with a 3.3 gpa.

I started off in AP and did that for 2 years. THen I was lucky to transfer departments. Now I do fixed asset accounting for a multi-billion dollar private company. Now I have to travel a lot and shit. Going to Cali, TX, FL, MD....and soon EU and Africa for 10 days.

I tried doing public right out of school, but I didnt have the GPA (I was going against 3.7+) nor a school name. So I took what was available and it's turned out really well.

Good luck with busy season.

>>45069696
>>45069696
Also I will be sticking with standard for some time. I dont even know what Commander is. I want to do well with one style of gameplay before I venture into others. I'll be doing sealed drafts. Those sound like a blast.

>>45040205
Is there any particular order those have to be done in? The FLGS owner I've spoken with is very leery of letting some no-name judge anything for his store but I'm sure I could convince him if I had all the other bits lined up.

>>45070477
Having a nearby L2 really helps. I recently made L1. My first event was done solo with the L2 present (and he handled a tougher call where someone might've been cheating because he valued me seeing how it was handled over throwing me into the fray) and my second event was a prerelease where another more experienced L1 helped me out a lot.

>>45069424
I'm in college too, it really doesn't take that long. You basically have to find time for three things: two events and the test, and if you're lucky your L2 will give you the test after event #2. Then, all you have to do is judge one single event a year to stay certified.

If I'm playing in a weird cube (or a really, really bizarre draft), and somehow end up with a large number of Serum Powders, and use them to the point where I have less than seven cards in my library, do I lose before the first turn of the game, or on my first/second turn (depending on playing or drawing)?

>>45073108
You lose the game at the beginning of the first upkeep, that's when State Based Actions are checked.
http://magiccards.info/cns/en/2.html

If the thread's still up, I'm back

>>45073167
So if I've Serum Powdered away my whole deck, and my opponent has nothing but Chancellor of the Dross in their hand, do I lose from life loss or from being unable to draw a card?
This is important to me.

>>45075889
SBAs will kill you before his Chancellor triggers even go on the stack.

>>45076421
Cool, that's what I was hoping.

Here's a bit of an unusual question. If I have Opalescence on the battlefield and a face-down enchantment manifested onto the battlefield, can I turn the enchantment face-up like any other creature?

>>45079597
I would need gA to confirm but I believe that since it's face down, opalescence doesn't affect it, meaning you can't flip it for its manifest cost.

Of course since it's a permanent, flickering it would bring it into play face-up where opal WOULD affect it.

>>45079597
Nope.

701.31b. Any time you have priority, you may turn a manifested permanent you control face up. This is a special action that doesn't use the stack (see rule 115.2b). To do this, show all players that the card representing that permanent is a creature card and what that card's mana cost is, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. The effect defining its characteristics while it was face down ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. (If the card representing that permanent isn't a creature card or it doesn't have a mana cost, it can't be turned face up this way.)

It's not a creature card, it's an enchantment card.

>>45079597
no you can't

Evening bump

I have 5 life, 4 cards left in my library, and a Laboratory Maniac on the battlefield. My opponent hits me with Damnable Pact, declaring X = 5. What happens?

>>45081909
You win the game. Lab Maniac's replacement effect replaces the event "draw a card while your library has no cards in it" with the event "win the game". You perform your "win the game" action as part of resolving the Pact, and that's that- you win. Game over, in the middle of resolving the spell.

Without the Maniac, you wouldn't lose until after the spell has fully resolved, because SBAs are what kill you, and those aren't checked during the resolution of a spell or ability. Lab Maniac is weird because it's a replacement effect that applies to the attempting-to-draw-from-an-empty-library, rather than losing-from-drawing-from-an-empty-library

>>45082019
Makes sense to me; thanks!

Another weird case: what happens when I cast a spell with two Possibility Storms on the battlefield?

If I have a Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet on my side and my opponents has say 3 nameless dipshit creatures and I use planar outburst (boardwipe) do he creatures get exiled and do I get tokens?

>>45082204
You put two PS triggers on the stack; the order doesn't terribly matter. First one resolves, exiles your spell, then you wheel until you hit one with the same type, and cast it for free. That spell resolves, then the second PS trigger digs from the top until it hits a card that shares a type with the spell that triggered it, and you cast THAT for free.

Basically, casting a spell from your hand = you get 2 from your library

>>45082243
Yes. Kalitas and the creatures are leaving the battlefield simultaneously, so his replacement effect exists immediately before they 'die', so it replaces their death with exile.

If my opponent is using RG Omnath as a commander, and it goes to the command zone, does that count as it "dying"? Does he get to bolt?

>>45082435
It does not, and he does not. "Dies" specifically means "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield". Command-Zoning your commander is a replacement effect, so it goes to the command zone INSTEAD of where it was gonna go.

>>45082470
Thank you for confirming my roommate is a retard.

>>45082523
He's not a retard, he just didn't know. Ignorance is only a bad thing when it's WILLFUL. Now he knows, and knowing is half the battlefield.

>>45082526
True, but I tried really hard to explain it to him, even citing from the CR, but he was so convinced of his position that I was even starting to doubt myself. We don't play competitively often, so no access to judges.

I can cast a creature with Bestow from my graveyard using Karador right?

Is it the same for Evoke?

>>45085460
It is. Both Evoke and Bestow are alternate costs, and Karador isn't setting up an alternate cost (which would make it NOT work, since you can't use two alternate costs), he's just changing WHERE you can cast the spell from.

>>45086784
Thanks gA.

>>45086784
Now that the suspension thing is over, wanna say something about it? Alternatively, handled any interesting/funny calls lately?

>>45086784
Question about Karador: What happens if I have another card in my graveyard that I could cast from there anyway, like a Gravecrawler. Does casting the Gravecrawler 'use up' my one Karador cast?

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When a card asks each player to perform an action simultaneously, who actually chooses first? do both players pick something secretly and then reveal simultaneously what they picked?
Pic related, my newest stupid modern deck involves sacrificing auras attached to my opponent's lands at the same time they sacrifice their lands.

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>>45088010
whoops, forgot the important part of the interaction

Another dumb question from a noob.

If I Bone Splinters (addition cost is to sac a creature) an Eldrazi token, I do not get the colorless mana in my pool correct? Is there a way to play that that I can bone Splinter an eldrazi token, and get the mana?

>>45088337
There is not, no, because both Bone Splinters and the mana ability are costs, and just like how you can't tap the same forest to play four llanowar elves turn one, you can't sacrifice the same thing for multiple costs at once.

>>45088056
Turn-order, starting with the active player, and yes you get to see what the player before you chose, and let that influence your choice.
>101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player
(the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually
the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining
nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred
to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.

>101.4b A player knows the choices made by the previous players when he or she makes his or her
choice, except as specified in 101.4a
1041.a is about choosing from hidden zones like hand and library.

>>45088654
>>45088654
Thanks!

There was a wizards article about Deceiver of Form which said that face down creatures stay face down even when a copy of whatever other creature. If you had a manifested card, could you make the face down card a copy of the creature, even if the face down card isn't a creature?

Like, if I had a manifested Dispel, I flip a bear off deceiver of form, can I flip the dispel into the bear?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/costs-costs-2016-01-27

The article is above, why does an awakened land which becomes a copy stay a 0/0?

>>45089099
You're straight up insane. If you flip a grizzly bear with Deceiver, your face down dispel will become a copy of it, it'll just be a weird creature because it's a Grizzly Bear but also a face down creature.

>>45089174
If my face down creature is a grizzly bear then I should be able to turn it face up.

Noob question part 12:

I just built a deck for FNM.
1. Is that the only deck I can play with for the night? Or can I switch decks between each series?
2. Do I have to go back to my original deck when the series complete? So if I sideboarded in 3 cards, before the next round starts, I have to go back to my original deck?

Thanks

Also one last one and I think I got it.

If I have an eldrazi token on the field that was put into play that turn, can i sacrifice right away or does it have summoning sickness?

Thanks

>>45089668
You can't switch decks between rounds of a tournament. You should be going back to your original deck between rounds, but if you don't submit a decklist there's no way for them to know.

>>45089777
Yes to both

>>45090268
>>45090268
For FNM do they require a decklist?

>>45090467
Usually not, and if they do then you can make it when you arrive

>>45089219
Manifest looks at specifically wether the face-down thing is a creature CARD (the word creature is printed on physical thing), not whether it has the creature subtype
from the CR 701.31b
>To do this [turning a manifested card face up], show all players that the card representing that permanent is a creature card and what that card’s mana cost is,pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up.

>The article is above, why does an awakened land which becomes a copy stay a 0/0?
Because Layers.
The Land becomes a copy of a grizzy bear in layer 1. (Copy) (P/t 2/2)
The awaken effect makes it a 0/0 in layer 7b.
+1/+1 counters enlarge it in 7d.
It ends up as a +n/+n where n is the number of +1/+1 counters

>>45090624
For the second part, wouldn't the awaken effect also make the land an elemental?

>>45037159
If I clone a flipwalker with mimeoplasm what happens when the conditions to flip are met?

>>45091474
The Mimeoplasm will be exiled, then returned to the battlefield front face-up. As it enters the battlefield, you may exile two creature cards from graveyards to have it enter as a copy of one with +1/+1 counters equal to the power of the other.

If I want to get the game with a faster deck style what's the best starter to pick up?

>>45092329
Intro decks are typically awful. A better thing to do would be to find a mono red, standard legal list online and order those cards in singles. for about the same price as an intro you get a playable deck.

>>45092490
Oh ok

>>45091474
Non-DFCs can't ever transform, so if something tells them to transform or enter the battlefield transformed, they just stay normal-side-up.

>>45091680
>>45092728
neat! thanks yall

>>45092620
>>45092490 is completely biased info and should not be followed unless your question is "I want to get into [format] fast" If you are just learning to the play the game, by all means go for an intro deck or deckbuilder's toolkit, Premade decks can show you generally how a deck should be built and allows you to opt in with a bunch of other newbies so no one can get salty that you spent more money on your deck than anybody else

If you are just learning to play ignore anyone who responds to your questions with "never buy packs, look up X format top 8 decks and build those." the price of those decks will most likely put you off and they're are not constructed with learning how to play in mind.

>>45094082
Fuck off Wizards the premades are a waste of money.

Some questions that came up during our latest EDH session:
- I have Bident of Thassa, opponent has Myr Battlesphere. He has enough myrs to kill me on a swing, but not enough creatures to go through my blockers. If I force his creatures to attack, can he tap the myrs to kill me?
- Opponent casts Thief of Blood, about to steal loads of counters. I have an instant kill spell to shoot it down. What happens to the counters when I kill it in response to its EtB ability (I assume that's the only time I can cast it if I want to prevent that)?

>>45094790
The bident forces the tokens to attack (assuming they're not summoning sick), so by the time the meatball's ability resolves they're tapped already.

Thief of Blood's ability is a replacement effect, not a trigger. There's no time that you can kill it before it gets counters. The only way to stop it from stealing counters is to counter it (heh).

>>45094879
Okay, thanks. A follow-up on the Thief of Blood question: if the opponent wants to sac it for crazy value (as additional cost of an ability), when do I play my kill spell? Can I even prevent him from doing it?

Aaaaand now I'm back from work.

>>45095143
Nah you're fucked.

>>45065638
>play with no lands but City of Ass and other Un-lands
>give everybody the Ass Whuppin' of a lifetime

>>45069812
Sealed and Draft are two separate formats that both fall under the "Limited" form of formats, as the card pool is limited to whatever you can pull
unless Sealed draft is some kind of weird thing where you draft players that then build separate decks and you pick the best ones and play a league with your chosen players against other drafters' teams which sounds extremely silly and also something I kinda really want to do

>>45094082
shut the fuck up you moronic shill
Premades are garbage and completely pointless. Booster packs are the same.

If he doesn't know what he wants, looking up lists that are good and finding one he likes is a good idea. If it's too expensive, he can buy budget replacements.

Buying a premade is the single most idiotic way you can spend your money when playing Magic and you're a fucking asshole for pretending it isn't.

>>45099429
Premades are ideal for LEARNING TO PLAY.

As in, for people who don't have the tools to evaluate decks, cards, and formats. As in, people who don't have the knowledge needed to pilot a deck that requires a lot of skill.

As in, people who won't be competitive unless you hand them Burn and a decision flowchart.

As in, people who want a "level" playing field to get their footing.

Premades are pretty damn good for those people.
Also,
>If it's too expensive, he can buy budget replacements.
If they're getting into the game for the very first time how are they supposed to know what can replace what without crippling the deck?

And that's on top of how you're neglecting the other things premades are great for.

>>45099429
>Budget replacements
'Why would I want this Bloodstained Mire in here? It makes me lose life, I could just put another mountain and a swamp in instead!'

>>45100075
>'Why would I want this Bloodstained Mire in here? It makes me lose life, I could just put another mountain and a swamp in instead!'
I remember getting a phyrexian arena from a booster and thinking it was crap because it made me lose life as a kid.

New players really have no idea what's good and what's shit.

>>45038856
you're so gullible it's almost adorable

>>45099142
Sealed Draft is a format, it's relatively new. You open three packs, look at them, then draft three packs. You basically get really powerful draft decks and can draft a sideboard. Sometimes your sealed bombs were in the same colors as the people next to you, and you get fucked in the pucker.

both my matter reshaper and my opponents thought-knot seer die in combat.
I think how it would work is that if its my turn, thought-knots trigger resolves first, and if its my opponents turn, Matter Reshapers trigger resolve first.
is this true?

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Does the mana from Braid of Fire empty from my mana pool between multiple upkeep steps, for example from the effects of Paradox Haze? The rules say it doesn't empty until I reach my draw step but I want to be sure.

>>45103784
also another stack related question.
how would the stack look when you cast Pyroclasm with Monastery Swiftspear in play?

>>45104036
So it's your first Main Phase and you have Monastery Swiftspear on the battlefield, and you haven't done anything else interesting this turn. You announce you're going to cast Pyroclasm, tap the correct mana, and put it on the stack. Since you cast a non-creature spell, a prowess trigger is generated and put on the stack, so the stack looks like

--TOP
Prowess on Swiftspear
Pyroclasm
--BOTTOM

First, the Prowess resolves, making the Swiftspear a 2/3. Then, the Pyroclasm resolves, dealing 2 damage to each creature. You're left with a 2/3 with 2 damage marked on it, ready to swing into your opponent (and their hopefully empty board). Note that because of the 2 damage already marked on it, the next one damage will kill it, unless you Prowess again, of course.

At the end of turn, the prowess bonus ends and damage falls of simultaneously, leaving you a 1/2 with no damage marked on it.

>>45103882
>The rules say it doesn't empty until I reach my draw step but I want to be sure.
No it doesn't you little bitch.

>106.4. When an effect produces mana, that mana goes into a player’s mana pool. From there, it can be used to pay costs immediately, or it can stay in the player’s mana pool. Each player’s mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase.

>>45103784
You're correct. This is due to the AP/NAP rule.

>>45106268
Wow, rude.

>10/1/2009: Any of this mana that isn't spent during your upkeep step will be removed before your draw step begins. You cannot save it to be spent on the card you will draw this turn.

>>45106268
>>45106400
While it wasn't correct to say "the rules", it would have been correct to say "the gatherer rulings", which was what I assumed he meant (because nobody reads enough of the rules to find what they want about a specific card).

>>45092329
You'll want to buy singles. Get an idea, see what you like, then go with it. There are multiple formats out there, so don't fall into the Standard trap. There's Pauper, if you like it cheap. Don't buy pre-made decks, or booster packs, unless you feel lucky. You're not a punk, so don't. Learn the rules, read the effects carefully, and you should enter the game rather easily.

>>45101567
I did. The best way to enter MtG is to have a friend ease you and guide you through the games.

>>45092329
see
>>45099609
and no, sealed product is not "a trap" or "garbage"; nor is Standard.
They're different offerings for different markets. Look for what's right for you.
>>45106800
Pauper in paper is a tiny goddamn format that needs a lot of help from stores that are often wary about creating a stable player base in a format that doesn't care about the cards that make them the most money in singles sales.

>>45099609
I could explain in depth why you're a fucking idiot and completely wrong but you don't warrant that much attention from me, so I'll leave you with something even someone who's got his head stuck up Wizards' rectum should be able to realize

The premade decks could be constructed for a buck fifty instead of 40 dollars or whatever his LGS charges if he just bought the singles that are in the premade instead of buying it wholesale

WOW
LOGIC


fuck off and literally shove a grater through your asshole

>>45106824
you too, cockwipe

>>45106709
It wouldn't be correct to say that, no, because the gatherer ruling is a simplified explanation.

The ruling just restates the fact that you won't get to carry the mana out of your upkeep, into your draw and use it for the drawn card.
It doesn't say that you don't empty until your draw, it just says that it's not available in the draw. It is ALSO not available after your first upkeep if you have two

>>45106400
Yeah you're reading that completely wrong because you're dumb.

>>45108920
you realize intro packs cost like $10 right?
and that you get two booster pack, IE $8 of value in boosters, so $2 in bulk as a premade deck.

>>45109202
the MSRP of intro packs is 14.99
Most places sell them for more.

Man, you guys have got to start having questions while I'm actually HERE.

Quick bump- I've got to run a small errand in about half an hour, then I'll be back for a bit before I go to play Magic today.

>>45109202
>$8 of value in two boosters
That's a retarded statement.

>>45109708
How about we quit arguing over cardboard, guys? It's getting a little silly.

>>45110003
We're not arguing over cardboard, we're arguing over misleading people into wasting their money

You might not give a shit about people being tricked into wasting their hard-earned money on actual garbage, but some of us aren't fucksticks whose attachment to Magic and expenditure on random shit related to it is downright pitiful.

>>45110678
That's an awfully healthy level of aggression to be displaying over someone spending their money on things you, personally, don't want them to.

I don't think intro packs are "great" for people who are gonna be remotely serious about the game, but they're not a bad "step one" for brand new players. They have a deck with a coherent enough theme, a little insert that teaches basic rules and what the deck "wants" to do, and gives them two boosters to add to that deck.

Would it be more cost-efficient for them to go to their LGS and ask for help building a deck out of cheap rares from the binder, and donation commons from the giveaway box? Absolutely, it would. But that might seem a little intimidating to BRAND NEW people who aren't sure if they like the game or not, and not everyone has that luxury. The vast majority of the people who buy Magic cards never set foot in a tournament above FNM, and a large portion of players don't even HAVE a shop (I didn't, for the first nearly 8 years I played this game), so that option isn't available to everyone.

>>45110753
>That's an awfully healthy level of aggression to be displaying over someone spending their money on things you, personally, don't want them to.
I'm not angry that people waste their money. People waste their money all the time on weirder things and I couldn't care less.

I'm angry at idiots with faulty logic misleading others into wasting their money (i.e. spending an unnecessary amount of money on something that's completely useless, that could still be gotten for a fraction of its cost if you really wanted to).

>I don't think intro packs are "great" for people who are gonna be remotely serious about the game, but they're not a bad "step one" for brand new players
I never said they're bad for people who want to play seriously, I said they're bad period, regardless of who you are.

> They have a deck with a coherent enough theme,
This doesn't matter. This could be achieved by literally any deck that could be found. What matters is learning why themes work, why they don't, and finding something that's fun to play with. Buying an intro deck locks you into the intro deck's gameplan which a new player won't even know what does. He doesn't get a chance to try anything else, because he's wasted his money on a single, shitty deck. He'll have to buy another, or buy singles to buy a different one, putting him in the same situation as if he'd just not bought the intro deck, but out whatever it cost.

>a little insert that teaches basic rules and what the deck "wants" to do
The inserts are far worse than literally any tutorial, guided program, or explanation given by a friend. Moreover, the insert can be found online anyway and he's obviously capable of using the net or he wouldn't be on /tg/.

>and gives them two boosters to add to that deck.
whoop de fucking doo


As for the rest of your post, you might actually be retarded. Dumb, for sure.
If he doesn't have a shop, he can't buy an intro pack unless it's the net, where he could just as easily buy anything else

>>45110938
>>45110753
Another thing, the building a deck from the shop's inventory is a fucking horrible strawman. If he has friends he wants to play with, he has their collections and their knowledge available.

He could install any of the many programs that teach Magic, he could play with the decks of friends, he could do literally anything other than buying premade trash decks and be better off.

If he has no friends, no store, and no interest in competition, who the fuck is he even playing Magic with? If it's online he doesn't even need actual cardboard.


Basically you're an idiot and I don't know why you're trying to take some sort of high ground. It's patronizing, especially when coming from someone who's no ground to stand on.

>If he doesn't have a shop, he can't buy an intro pack unless
You do realize that sealed Magic products (decks, packs, etc) are sold at big box stores like Target and Walmart, right?

But either way, this 'discussion' has clearly become a one-sided screaming match. I'm sorry that you're so upset about people buying a product intended for them.

>>45110991
>>45110938
Wow, way to angrily insult the guy who volunteers his time helping people learn the rules as "a fucking retard" and "an idiot shill"

>>45111038
Thanks, I do my best.

>>45111024
So, attempting to depart from the venom being spewed about.

Youve said before that you dont mind answering any questions cause its 'what youre paid to do.' My question is are you actually paid? If so, would you be willing to say an approximation? Totally understand if you dont answer.

Favorite color?

Its also really cool to have had a couple of these threads in the past week too. Love reading through these.

>>45110991
it's $15 dude...

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31KB, 223x310px

is it possible to lighting bolt a create after first strike damage has been dealt but before the receiving creature can deal its damage to the first strike creature

if someone mana leaks my Oblivion Sower can I pay the mana with the land he steals?

>>45112825
yes to the first, there is a chance between first strike and normal damage to cast spells and activate abilities

regarding the Sower, it depends. it's ability triggers on cast, so if your opponent responded to the cast trigger, than no, his Mana Leak will resolve before Sower has stolen lands.
If Sower's ability has already resolved, then yes you'll have the stolen lands in play to pay for Mana Leak

>>45113713
Yeah, however the shortcut is that a counterspell is cast at the first time they get priority.
So unless they explicitly say "Let that trigger resolve, then counter", you can't go: "You didn't say you cast your counter before the trigger, I can use these stolen lands".
(ie normally stack will look like
>Mana leak
>Sower Trigger
>Sower itself.
unless otherwise stated)

>>45112825
So usually, No, you can't use the lands oblivion sower stole to pay for manaleak.

At what point can I make a legitimate "slow play" complaint? Last week I had game one go for 40 minutes and game 2 started 2-3 minutes later. I complained around the 35 minute mark. I won game 2 amd we never got to start game 3.