Warhammer 40k General

>>44891521
>still no IA 12 update in the MEGA

>>44891402
Only if you go melee for the cultists, and they're absolute trash in melee. Guardsmen are actually cheaper if you try to give them ranged weapons (autoguns at 1 ppm) (35 cultists will tie combat with a 10 man tac squad the first round of combat, and lose the second round. This also assumes they never get shot except in overwatch). Guardsmen can also be given orders, and have commissars shoved in.

I'm not saying guardsmen are good by any measure, but they do the same thing as cultists, but cheaper and better.

>Leman Russ is the worst primarch
>Ultramarines are the best chapter
>Tau are glorious good guys
>Eldar are more Japanese that Tau
>Matt Ward was a good writer
>Newcrons are better than Oldcrons
>Abbaddon is a success
>Imperial Guard is useless
>Be'Lakor is stronger than the Chaos Gods
>Lorgar is the best traitor primarch
>Black Templars worship the Emperor as a God
>Dark Angels are closeted traitors
>Orks are just useless backdrop villains

>>44891530
I think people have gotten tired of scan beggers. Can't really blame them. If I had a scanner, I'd do it. Other than that, I know there is photos of it going round.

>3 general threads

>>44891562
Well this one has most posts and most unique ID's.

>>44891547
I just want to field my dark eldar semi-competitively again

>>44891610
I'm sure somebody has the rules photographed for you.

>>44891535
actually math hammer suggest 35 barebones cultits of cultists will win against 10 basic tactical marines (assuming one round of long range shooting, 1 round of rapid fire, either side getting the charge). Not sure where you got your numbers...

>>44891538
>Eldar are more Japanese that Tau
>Black Templars worship the Emperor as a God
These are true.

>>44891981
for the love of emprah, stop replying

>>44891819
Assume 35 barebones cultists, and 10 tac marines, one of whom is a vet sergeant, no other upgrades.

9 bolter shots vs cultists (Long range). 5.94 hit, 3.9204 wound and kill cultists unless they're getting a cover save from somewhere (Which is entirely possible, but difficult to mathhammer so I'm ignoring it.)

Next round, cultists are in rapid fire range. 19 shots (9 bolters, one bolt pistol). 12.54 hit, 8.27 wounded and killed. Cultists at this point have to make a leadership test, but let's assume they make it for sake of argument.

Cultists are in range on their turn to shoot. 22 autopistol shots. 11.4 hits, 3.8 wounds, 2.5 dead marines.

Overwatch: 15 shots. 1.99 hits, 1.3 dead cultists.

Marines strike first. 9 attacks, hitting on 3s for 5.94 wounds, 4.95 dead cultists.

Cultists attack back. 51.15 attacks, 25.58 hits, 8.43 wounds. 3+ armor takes that down to 2.78 dead marines: Marines rout the cultists and probably kill them.

>>44891538
>Leman Russ is the worst primarch

You can't say that! He had a Ruff upbringing!

>>44892061
*soft ba dum tiss in the distance*

>>44892002
What if replying is part of the trolling?

>>44892118
Then we're reaching the Event Horizon.

Do you ever wish you can drive a motor cycle in a crater and jump so high that you shot down a Tau airship?

Yeah me too.

>>44891538
>>44892061
>Leman Russ is the worst primarch

Arguing with Space Furfag fans? You're barking up the wrong tree.

So I have a 750 tourney coming up. How's my list?
Tau CAD
>commander with CaCN, MS3, NSJ, Drone controller
>2 Markerlight drones

>5 breachers, 1 breacher shasui, 1 guardian drone
>Ded Transport Devilfish with gundrones, and disruption pods

>5 strike team with rifles

>1 gunrig

Farsight Enclaves as Allied
>Darkstrider

>3 XV8's with plasma rifle, fusion blaster, target lock
>2 markerlight drones

Strategy is to use my devilfish to get Darkstrider and breacher team close as possible to them and blast them out. Doubles out marines due to Darkstrider. They are livable because 5++ and 6++ for darkstrider and his ability to consolidate D6 after overwatch. I will use the devilfish to drop off the drones by an objective and use the transport to get another one. Striketeam is on the gunrig laying some heavy fire. Commander is with the crisis suit team taking down vehicles and assisting the gunrig team by firing markerlights on units in cover. All of my units have objective secured.

I might finally have my gateway into playing thanks to some dudes I met at a MTG tournament on Sunday. I was wondering, I noticed Astra Militarum is 6ed and there's no codex for 7th. Does that mean if I want to play glorious IG that I can't play with 7ed people or do 6 and 7 work together?

>>44892175
*rimshot*

>>44892329
I dont play Tau but it looks solid. Breachers are always not as good as almost anything else, you're using them in almost the only way they can be used. Just know that its an opportunity cost
>>44892353
6th is compatible and works until they release another codex. You can play your guardsmen and their brass balls

>>44892377
Fuck yeah. Now as followup, how soon would you speculate that their new codex comes out? I won't be buying anything for a while since I have no job but the dudes said I could watch and borrow their armies to learn and shit but I don't want to buy the 6ed codex only to have the new one come out a week later.

>>44892396
Quite some time. They just got an update that's supposed to be it for 7th edition in the new tau book.

>>44892396
Download the codex from the mega and learn it, then borrow dudes from friends until you get a job, you dirty hippy

>>44892409
Sweet. Last thing, I take it there's no special regiments or anything I can play as for different effects a la playing as Space Wolves or Dark Angles?
>>44892417
I'm trying real hard to get a job. My old place lost a contract and had to lay off my line only a month after I had been hired. Finally got a welding job and then it got taken from under me.

>>44892377
>I dont play Tau but it looks solid
Thanks. I think it's a good list. All my units are pretty well protected and I have some 1 time use objective getters with OS. So that'll be nice.

>>44892431
Damn dude. I feel you, today was my first good paycheck in a while thanks to loss in hours. No bread to buy models.

>>44892431
Death Korps of Krieg, which is a kind of proto-WW1 prussian AM regiment. Forgeworld specific though, and will cost you an arm a leg and a testicle.

>>44892462
I was thinking Armageddon Steel Legion. Muh tanks.

>>44892440
Watch for bait tactics against your breachers, theyre a one-trick pony and if you shoot up something middling and get mauled in return it'll be because your opponent tricked you.
>>44892431
There are a bunch of FW exclusive ones, look it up on 1d4chans tactica category. Elysians and Kriegers in particular. Most other regiments are just colour scheme differences. Also look up Armoured Battlegroup, for armies consisting of a dozen tanks

>>44891521
Who are the top 5 most powerful psykers in 40k?

>>44892508
Singular or formations?

Because Seer Council is probably the strongest psychic entity in the game atm, followed by librarius conclave and 10 weirdboys packed into a battlewagon

>>44892508
1.Orks
2.Orks
3.Orks
4.Orks
5.gits

>>44892508
As fluff purposes see >>44892540

But in the game, does Tzeench have that dude that can get Mastery lvl 4?

As a Tau player, my thought is
Magic, what kind of gun is that?

>>44892559
Arhiman is ML4 I believe

>>44892559
>>44892578
So is Fateweaver. Eldrad's also ML 4. Pre-Demon Lorgar harnesses on a 3+, which also probably speaks to some power.

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>>44892559
Tau have better psykers than psyker races do

-All blessings (the best kind)
-No need to roll, work automatically
-Cant be Denied
-Get all four without the price of a Level 4 psyker

>>44892605
>Ethereal dies
>Tau army is fucked

>>44892578
>>44892603
Don't forget a generic Chaos Sorcerer with that Relic that gives +1 Mastery level

>Increase cost of nobz to 20ppm, but give them a warboss's statline

>Keep warboss the same price, but make him S6 T6 I5 A5

What does this do for orks?

>>44892631
Actually, these days an Ethereal dieing just gives the enemy an extra victory point

>>44892648
Makes Nobz not in Mega armour decent, nobz in mega armour strong, and nobz on bikes disturbing, and warboss bikers gods

>>44891610
>Dark Eldar
Being half way good?
You know you could just ally CE Eldar and whore out on psychers. That would at least allow your units to live until you got to cc.

>>44892648

>47 points for a T6, 3W bike with 6 attacks at Str 6 on the charge.

It sounds kind of good, except they still only have a 4+ armour save with a 3+ cover if they jink. Initiative 4 means they're striking simultaneous with lots of things, and Str 8 on the charge with Big Choppas is actually quite good. Str 10 on power klaws is nice too. I'm just not seeing the potential in paying death-star level points for a unit with no invul saves however. Easy access to FNP though could

Meganobz however, if they get the same buff, become really good when taken as a Bullyboyz formation. Str 10 base, Fearless, T5 with a 2+ save and 3 wounds. Could take on a lot with that.

If it's everything with a Nob statline getting the treatment, then Flash Gitz become really quite viable.

>tfw Sniper doesn't even grant Rending anymore

How the fuck can I make myself excited to field a squad of Eldar Rangers

>>44892739
>Rending
I meant Pinning, I'm drunk and a retard.

>>44892722
I think Gitz are pretty viable now, even with Brigade, although I'd give them a 4+ and keep them 22pts if I could

>>44892717
Dark Eldar are an entirely skill army. Bad players play poorly, but in the hands of a good Archon, DE can tear some ass on their own.

Of course that's only if they're played against a decently balanced codex/list. Cheese is still cheese. But if you're up against shit like triptides, allying for some of that sweet Craftworld Cheddar is the way to go.

>>44892752
*Even without brigade*

>>44892752

Well, I don't know about viable. They're just too fragile in their current state, plus they don't do enough when they charge, which with that statline GW is encouraging us to do.

However with a Warboss statline they'll do some hurt. Even a naked warboss puts out a surprising amount of damage. Yes, it's at Ap-. but enough attacks will tell.

>>44892508
Beyond the Emperor being #1, it's difficult to say. Magnus is reportedly second only to him, but that may be accounting only for "Human" psykers. After them, Fateweaver, Eldrad and Draigo are probably the biggest nerds in the universe.

I wish you could take piranhas with missile drones. I like the model, but I cant think of no reason why to take them.

>>44892508
1-Be'lakor (Full power)
2-Emperor
3-Be'lakor (Nerfed)
4-Magnus
5-Eldrad

>>44892748
>I'm drunk and a retard
So you're a Space Wolf?

>>44892807
Ah right, I throw mine in Battlewagons for some degree of protection, even more points I know but I would never run them without one

>>44892841
Now we move on to the mightiest beings in the galaxy

1-Aza'gorod (The rest of the Stargods after him)
2-Be'lakor (Full power)
3-Emperor
4-Be'lakor (Nerfed)
5-Abaddon

>>44892815
>Draigo
He's good, but he's no Fateweaver or Eldrad.

My list is
1.Emprah
2.Magnus
3.Fateweaver
4.Be'lakor
5.Eldrad
This is assuming no chaos gods being counted

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>>44892764
I sincerely believe all that Dark Eldar need to be competitive is good psychic support. Not that it wouldn't help to have Wyches/Hellions/HQ options that are worth a damn, or that Blasters could use a point drop, or that Dark Lances could stand to be better (a 5pt upgrade to have BS5 on vehicles? Give them +1S or rerolls to armor penetration?) - remember when we were the only BS4 army other than Marines so lances were more than "like a lascannon but shit"?

Bitching aside, with a pair of allied Farseers for Psychic Shriek to kill GMCs, I've yet to encounter any army and think, "There's no way I can handle this."

>>44892816
40 points each means for 200 points, you get a unit that puts out 40 S5 shots a turn (half of which pin) on an ultra-fast platform of 10HP (and 10 wounds if you pop the drones out)
Spend two markerlights on them and they'll have Space Marines rolling two dozen saves a turn

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hey amigos, im new in 40k and i just found in a garage sale all in the photo for 10 bucks, a friend of mine plays warhammer and he said we should start with a 750 p. battle, tell me is this list any good? (note: the hellbrute is dismantled)

HQ-
kharn the betrayer =160
-------------------------------------------------------------------
troops-
khorne berzerkers (1 berzerker champion, 9 bezerkers) -(105)+(57) =162

chaos space marines (4 csm and one champion,mark of korn,one melta gun and champion with combi melta) -(75)+(10)+(10)+(10)=100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
elites-
chaos terminators (2 terminatos and one champion, champion with combi melta and power fist)
- (95)(5+7) =107
-------------------------------------------------------------------
formation-
hellbrute - 100 =100
chaos cultists 1 group (9 cultist and one champion, 8 autoguns, one heavy stubber, and champion with shotgun) - 50+8+5+2 =65
chaos cultists 2 group (9 cultist and one champion, one flamer) - 50+5 =55

todo= 749

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>>44892917
>2.Magnus

Be'lakor is the mightiest daemon prince in his NERFED form.

In the audiobook "The First Prince" The thousand Son sorcerer, who specializes in daemonlogy, Cetias says that Be'lakor power is far greater than any daemon he encountered before. It should be noted that Cetias has been in the presence of Daemon Magnus and knows the true name of Doombreed and can summon him.

Magnus is no in way above Be'lakor.

>>44892951
>10 bucks
Holy shit I gotta start going to garage sales

>>44892960
I used a tau strike team to pummel Be'lakor in the face and killed him. True story.

>>44893004
I never find shit at garage sales

That dude struck fucking gold

>>44892951
>(75)+(10)+(10)+(10)=100
You're a funny guy

>>44892960
>Le Edgy xXxSuperpowerfulxXx Daemon Prince :^)
Go fuck yourself anon. As a Daemon Player, I won't even touch that pile of shitty writing.

>>44892917
I have one of old art books with all the older wh40K artwork, it also had a lot of HH fluff text. And it had Malcodor (sp?) sitting on the GT while emps went to fight Horus. So he must have been a psycher of some power. I'd say he would have been at Magnus level or close to it at least.

>>44893028
I've gone looking before and never find anything

>>44893087
Nah, Malcador turned into dust as soon as anyone touched him after a few hours on the throne. Magnus was raised as the replacement for Emps in guiding the Astronomicon, so he would have to be a pile more powerful to not turn as dusty as his rubrics. Malcador was powerful, but nowhere near Magnus, or even Eldrad

>>44893028
yea, i have allways loved warhammer but im too poor to buy new models,but now i have the oportunity to play, and o boy im in love with those shitty cultist, i don't know but they are my favorite figures, but i have some questions, does chaos terminators have to pay an extra points fee to deepstrike on board? im reading deep strike rules but doesn't say nothing in the csm codex

>>44893112
nup, termies just pop in and start shooting shit. Its included in Terminator Armour's stats

>>44893070
holy shit hahahaha im sorry i made this in a hurry, i'll drop the combi melta of the terminator champion

>>44893075
>Implying the one and only Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided shouldn't be hella more powerful than Divided Princes

He is the Firstborn of Chaos. Older than all those who serve Chaos, daemon and mortal alike.

Not seeing how it makes sense for him to be the mightiest of his kind is just being silly.

>>44893163
Also

>Le edgy

Fucking buzzwords.

How is Be'lakor more edgy than any other daemon prince? Seriously?

>>44893173
>hes the first and hes the best and he plans everything better than tzeentch and he's fully awesome believe me bro dont mind that he's only slightly better than a regular DP with some psyker tricks
He's the daemon equivalent of 'spiritual liege'

>>44893163
>He is the mightiest of kind, and has all the coolest powers and has a sweet katana whos totally gonna overthrow all of the other chaos gods
Mcfuck yourself. He's a more poorly written asshole than Abbadon is.

Who cares how powerful Be'lakor is? He is such a minor, inconsequential character who never does anything of note that he could easily be written out of the setting and it would change nothing. What a joke.

>>44893138
ooo i cool i didn't examined the armor section of the codex, thnx, but tell me , is the full infantry army list is at least a little good?

>>44893270
Sure, vehicles suck at the moment. Chaos isnt a great army right now since power creep has made them kinda obselete, but your list is fine. Expect to lose a lot more than you win until you get the hang of things. Read the CSM tactica on 1d4chan, learn yourarmy, and play to get experience with your doods

>>44893247
Actually, he is instrumental in the rise of Abaddon. He manipulated the events of the Black Crusade to ascend Abaddon to greatness but not make him too great for his reach. The information he revealed to Ahriman showed him his future and the way to the Gate of Ruin.

Also he is leading an attack on the Phalanx and wrecked the Imperial Fists there until the Legion of the Damned showed up. If he succeeds in taking over the Phalanx, he will use it to bombard Terra and the Imperial Palace which will kill the Emperor.

Putting aside all of that.....HE IS THE HERALD OF THE END TIMES. He proclaimed that the galaxy will end at the hands of the Ascendant of Chaos and so it will!

He is more important to the overall story than many named characters.

>>44893308
Hes a character with badly written fluff that makes no sense in the modern setting. There. Same reason people dislike Grey Knights in 5th and anything Matt Ward wrote about the Ultramarines. Not every Space Marine wants to be an Ultramarine. Since then, GW has rolled back all the shit fluff. Now we wait for them to do the same to mcsue the perfect superdaemon

>>44893339
He is not perfect at all. Just the most powerful of his kind.

>>44893201
>>44893207
You two are just being irrational.

I think you just hate Chaos in general.

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>>44893386
>Plays Chaos Daemons
>Hate Chaos
Are you a loyalist?

>>44893386
>dislike shit fluff
>must hate chaos in general
what, next you'll tell me firewarriors are the worst infantry in the game if thats the best you've got

>>44893386
>Just the most powerful
>only one to be raised by all four
>best planner in chaos camp
>manipulating the entire long war
>superpsyker with massive power
>not sue
>>>>>

>>44893405
People who say firewarriors are worst infantry need to know how to play them. Stick them in cover and use markerlights to assist.

>>44893396
>calling Abaddon poorly written
>Likes Chaos

You can be a self hater or you play the army because they are fun not because you love their lore.

>>44893424
OK, you're either new or a troll

>>44893426
>Poor Warmaster
>13 Black Crusades and hasn't destroyed the Imperium
>implying there aren't more viable options for The Warmaster title.

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>>44893396

Damn it, now I am going to *have* to put an Obliterator-Armstrong into my next Black Crusade game.

>>44893423
>>only one to be raised by all four

Not his fault that GW sacked Undivided.

>>best planner in chaos camp

Purported to be one of the best but never said to be the best.

He is ignorant that the Chaos Gods are manipulating him for their "Just as Planned".

>>manipulating the entire long war

Only the Black Crusades and Abaddon's destiny

>superpsyker with massive power

Like all Daemon Princes.

I see no sues here.

>>44893443
Pffffft They are squishy like no other. But thats why you need krooty speedbumps and bubblewrap your dudes. S5A5 weapons aint bad. Stick them with Darkstrider and they double out marines.

Also, the entire Tau army is focused on force multipliers and teamwork. You cant play them like you do marines.

>>44892951
Is that army good as in - will you be able to use this as a core for a future competitive army? Not really.

Is it good as in - does it have a good selection of fun units that we help me learn the rules? Totally.

Add a Rhino and a Helldrake when you want to expand.

>>44893449
>>13 Black Crusades and hasn't destroyed the Imperium

None of the 12 Black Crusades were aimed at destroying the Imperium. They were small raids or grand invasions with specific objectives that he accomplished. All of the crusades were meant to build up Abaddon's powerbase and resources until he is ready to launched the 13th Black Crusade which is aimed at ending the Long War.

>>implying there aren't more viable options for The Warmaster title.

There aren't any.

Since you don't know something that basic about Chaos lore, I am revoking your Chaosfag card.

As a devout follower of Chaos, I hereby declare Be'Lakor a poorly-conceived and shoe-horned Mary Sue.

>>44893477
>only one to be raised by all four STILL despite GW sacking undivided
>said to be the best planner in several of his appearances, chaos gods dont count since theyre basically omniescent in the warp's great game
>Abaddons black crusades no being the entire long war
>superpsyker who is way better than any other daemon prince, as is stated repeatedly
hes an actual sue. End of poorly written story

If a weapon has 'field repairs' in its profile does it function like a Techmarines/Enginseers servo arm?
Restore HP/Immobilised/Destroyed weapon point on a roll of 5+?

I'm leafing back and forth through Skitarii codex and Core Rulebook but I'm not finding it anywhere.

>>44893494
>Erebus
>Kor Phaeron
>Huron Blackheart
>Honsu
0/10 made me reply

>>44893517
Hey, wait. What the fuck did happen to Undivided?
What does this mean for Word Bearers n such?

>>44893517
>>only one to be raised by all four STILL despite GW sacking undivided

Because it was impossible to remove being Undivided from his backstory.

>said to be the best planner in several of his appearances

Never.

Just said he was among the best ones. One of you guys said he is a better planner than Tzeentch but he is not really.

>>Abaddons black crusades no being the entire long war

Abaddon and the Black Crusade are among the pillars of the Long War but they are not all of it.

>>superpsyker who is way better than any other daemon prince, as is stated repeatedly

As befits his status as the Firstborn of Chaos and most powerful of his kind.

I don'y see you guys hating on Eldrad for being the best Eldrad seer, Calgar for being the strongest marine, the Swarmlord for being the pinnacle of his buggy kind, and so on and so forth.

You are biased against Be'lakor for some raisen.

>>44893560
Those characters have long since established their roles as the faces of their respective factions. Abaddon is Chaos'. Be'Lakor is a poorly written shoe horn that serves zero purpose what so ever.

>>44893537
>>Erebus
>>Kor Phaeron

Too weak willed to rise to be the Ascendant of Chaos.

They lack vision.

>>Huron Blackheart

Unknown whether he wants to be Warmaster or not. It's too late for him to make a bid for it.

Also he is a bloody cripple.

>>Honsu

A literal "who?" and legitimate failure.

There are issues with his canon as well.

>>44893577
As if Abaddon was ever not a sue;
>Crusades against Imperium
>13+ times
>Still alive
and the Officio Assassinorum collectively hangs their heads in shame.

>>44893577
I agree.

Abaddon is Chaos. However, behind every BBEG, there is a Dragon type character who shadows and serves him.

Be'lakor is Abaddon's treacherous Dragon. He is added to enrich Abaddon's backstory and give a plausible explanation for his rise so you guys won't call him a "mary sue".

>>44893560
Well, I don't know for the other Tyranid players, but I have always seen them as a whole, with every unit just being a part of it, another arm of the Hive Mind to eat the Galaxy, with the Swarmlord just be its strongest arm.

Also
>Calgar
>not the older Chapter Master of all the chapters
>not the Chapter Master of a legion
>not the supreme commander of all the Imperium forces against Abaddon
>armless and legless failure
>strongest anything

>>44893592
He was beaten back despite the retcons.
And now he's stalemated on Cadia.
Most importantly though, he actually has character depth.

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>>44893584
>Honsu
>Literally made a horrific body horror way to reverse impregnate bitches into making new Chaos Marines, steals Loyalist Geneseed to do it
>Nukes a planet to wipe out 1 Ultramarine
>Invades and kills 1/3 of the Ultramarines
>Still at large

>>44893584
>honsou
>a literal who
he actually gets shit done as opposed to every other character
stop sucking abadabadoodles abbadong

>>44893584
>Erebus
>Lacks vision
Dang it, Bobby.

>>44893560
wow, they remove undivided completely, apart from one guy whos the first and the best and isnt removed because he's so awesome. Sue strike one.

>best planner
read more fool. He's stated to be the best planner who isnt a warp entity but is hampered by having to be sneaky so the gods wont smack him again, despite them knowing about him anyway

>Black crusades and abaddon not being the entire chaos-aligned long war
Sure, you have warbands and renegades like Huron, but they arent waging war. Theyre opportunistic raiders. The black crusades are the war.

>firstborn of chaos and most powerful of his kind
sue strike three.

>eldrad
is a sneaky dick who rose to the top by being clever and trying to stop his species going extinct, but still dies in the end. Mildly sue, but nothing obnoxious
>calgar
is a tough guy and a good strategist with good gear. Gets outwitted and nearly killed by a bug. Mildly sue, but not obnoxious now that matt ward no longer writes shit fluff about every other marine wanting to lick his boots
>swarmlord
a hive tyrant with a distinct personality used as a weapon to micromanage the swarm, outwit the enemy and defeat tough opponents personally. Spawned by the Hive Mind in the same way that it spawns exocrines for artillery or Carnifexes as battering rams. Not sue, makes sense.
>Be'lakor
Only Daemon Prince empowered by all four gods, SO POWERFUL that he got beaten with the nerfhammer by omniescent reality-breaking gods, the greatest psyker daemon prince ever, manipulates Abaddon and the entire long war for some reason, etcetera. Shit writing, doesnt fit with fluff, no character beyond 'first and best'

even if im being trolled i dont mind, it keeps my brain off the fact i have surgery tomorrow

>>44893604
Calgar is outright stated to be the mightiest Chapter Master and has achievements to back that up.

Soloing the Swarmlord, ripping apart M'kar. punching an Avatar to death, defeating Khorne's mightiest thirster, and lifting a Necron pylon with bare hands.

No Chapter Master comes even close.

>>44893603
>However, behind every BBEG, there is a Dragon type character who shadows and serves him.
>Be'lakor is Abaddon's treacherous Dragon. He is added to enrich Abaddon's backstory and give a plausible explanation for his rise so you guys won't call him a "mary sue".
No. This is just you justifying a shitty self-insert to sell a model in the more lucrative franchise. He adds absolutely nothing of value to the setting. He has no implication whatsoever. There's absolutely nothing compelling about him.

>>44893655
But he's still a bitch

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Alright, let's try something out, gits:

Get your codex, crack it open, or open up your e-reader. Look at your entire army, every unit.
Rate it on a 1 to 10 scale, with 1 being below a Dark Eldar Wych, and 10 being a Wraithknight.
Be honest; this is for science.

>>44893672
Gee, I wonder what someone will say of Tau.

>>44893672
4. Great individually, but way, way too damn expensive and lacks entire areas-Ranged antitank and antiflyer in particular

>>44893609
>He was beaten back despite the retcons.

He wasn't beaten back in any of the old or new lore. People who scream retcons are people who haven't read the fluff.

>>44893617
He failed to kill his Ultramarine nemesis and failed to destroy the Ultramarines.

There are more accomplished characters than him in the lore.

>>44893622
To be the Ascendant of Chaos, you got have a overriding drive that ascends beyond the pity squabbles of Chaos. Abaddon sense of injustice and revenge is this drive. When the Chaos Gods squabbles threaten to derail the Long War, he can tell them to piss off.

Erebus has no goal other than serving the Chaos Gods like all his degenerate kind. No vision or drive beyond that.

>>44893613
Abaddon conquered the Eye of Terror and built a force that dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded with just 3 guys and a ship (plus a DE and a daemon dog).

Also he killed 4 or 6 chapters? The Blood Angels nearly joined them in M'kan.

>>44893672
Tech-priest Dominus: 1
Kataphron Breachers: 1
Kataphron Destroyers: 1
Fulgurite Electro-Priests: 0
Corpuscarii Electro-Priests: 0
Kastellan Robot Maniple: 1
Skitarii Vanguard: 1
Skitarii Rangers: 0
Sicarian Ruststalkers: 0
Sicarian Infiltrators: 1
Sydonian Dragoons: 0
Ironstrider Ballistarii: 0
Onager Dunecrawlers: 1
Imperial Knight: 1

>>44893672
>Skitarii
Vanguard: 6
Rangers: 6
Ruststalkers: 7-8
Infiltrators: 7
Dragoons: 7-8
Balistarii: 5
Onager Dunecrawlers: 8

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>>44893649
>wow, they remove undivided completely, apart from one guy whos the first and the best and isnt removed because he's so awesome. Sue strike one.

If they removed Undivided from him, they might as well scrap the character. It would be a waste.

>read more fool.

I did.

Nothing you said was true.

>Sure, you have warbands and renegades like Huron, but they arent waging war. Theyre opportunistic raiders. The black crusades are the war.

The rest of the traitor legions are waging the Long War with or without Abaddon telling them to do so.

>Excuses all other "mary sues" and ignores or lessen the impact of their fluff
>Goes full throatle to deride Be'lakor

Tell me where has Dark Master touched you, anon?

Good luck. I will pray to the Shadowlord that you come out well. He is a generous god after all

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Hey guys, I am the guy who started recently and I am building a thousand sons army.

So I basically kinda settled on the basic core for now.

Ahriman (which will be my HQ fuck efficiency), 2 chaos marine squads with rhinos,1 rubric marines, a couple of squads of cultists and 1 helbrute.

To complete/refine it, I will be throwing chaos daemons from now on, mainly to boost spells of ahriman.

Sounds good? From my research, this seems the best way to make a monogod army, basically.

Wasn't belakor actually an old model they decided to bring back in time for the end times in whfb and they just updated his fluff? Though that almost makes it worse

>>44893672
Dire Avenger - 6
Guardians - 4
Rangers - 5
Windriders - 7, 9 with Scatter Lasers
Fire Dragons - 6
Howling Banshees - 5
Striking Scorpions - 6.5
Wraithblades - 6
Wraithguard - 9
Shining Spears - 5
Swooping Hawks - 6
Warp Spiders - 7
Wave Serpents - 8
Crimson Hunters - 7
Falcons - 6
Fire Prisms - 7
Wraithfighters - 5
Night Spinners - 4
Vypers - 6
War Walkers - 6
Dark Reapers - 5
Support Weapons - 4
Wraithlord - 6
Wraithknight - 10
Avatar - 6

>>44893672

Warboss: 4
Big Mek: 3
Weirdboy: 2
Painboy: 6
Every special character: 2
Kommandos: 3
Tankbustas: 6
Nobs: 1
Burna Boyz: 3
Mega-Nobz: 4
Boyz: 2
Gretchin: 4
Trukks: 4
Deffkoptas: 3
Biker Boyz: 6
All three aircraft: 3
Buggies: 4
Stormboyz: 3
Mek Gunz: 6
Battlewagon: 4
Deff Dread: 3
Killa Kans: 1
Orkanauts: If I could give them 0 I would. As it is, 1
Lootas: 6
Flash Gitz: 3
Stompa: 1

None of this takes into account Formations, which make some things playable. Nothing rates higher than a 6 however, because even the best Ork stuff cannot compete on the kind of level that the big boys play at.

>>44893871
He is very connected to Archaon and the WHFB backstory. So They revived his fluff in WHFB and even ported him to 40K in a double digital release.

The fandom rejoice at the prospect of using his awesome model again in WHFB (Aos) and 40K.

>>44893871
It was a cash-grab, yes.
With bland justification.

>>44893829
As another 1ksons player, you're good. Though Id argue against CSM being fluffy, really you can just fluff them as new recruits or renegades. Daemon summoning can definitely work and add competitive power to your list, that said I would recommend some anti-tank. And also run Ahriman with the Rubrics as bodyguards. 2+ LoS followed by a 4+ Invuln is quite nice, though bear in mind Ahriman is a glasscannon and will perils a fuckton if you get cocky. If you want a good balance between survivability and spellcasting I'd recommend a regular Sorc loaded up with gear and a spell familiar.

Good luck breh. We both run not-ideal lists (I don't use daemons at all f.ex) so we need to enjoy what we do.

>>44893672
Tau
>XV8 Commander-9
Only with a CaCN and MSSS

>XV86 Coldstar- ?
Haven't used it yet.

>Ethereal-7
Extra VP can be a game loser, although he's great at adding another dice to your attack.

>Farsight-6
He's a mediocre melee unit.

>Shadowsun- ?
Haven't used her yet but she looks like an HQ i would want to buy

>Aun'Shi-4
A melee unit isn't exactly what you need in a shooty army, especially if it has no armor. Save the 60 points and put in a Kroot squad.

>Aun'va-8
100 points so that all of your units reroll failed leadership. Thats a win. Plus he's great when you have your guys ontop of shieldines. 2+ cover with bounceback and they can fire next turn. Fucking thankyou! And give me that Firestorm AND Sense of Stone.

>Cadre Fireblade- 7
Splitfire plus and extra dice. Stick him on a shieldline with a unit of Firewarriors with an ethereal. 2 dice per warrior at s5 at 15-30 and 4 dice per warrior at 1-15. Do the math.

>Darkstrider-9
I like him. He's my favorite. Breacher + darkstrider combo means doubling out marines, no armor saves if you get him close enough. Devilfish can help and so can his Outflank ability.

>Strike Team- 3 if by themselves, 7 with the cheese
You need markerlights. Ignore cover and bump up BS. You need to make every dice count. Teamwork is essential for Tau. No teamwork, no victory.

>Breachers- 3 if by themselves, 7 with Devilfish
They are a missile, good at one thing. Darkstrider makes them more durable. You need that guardian drone.

>Kroot-6
They are good at one thing, protecting your Tau. Essentially, the enemy has to charge twice in order to get to your guns if you are bubblewrapping your Tau. Charging twice means two shots at overwatch. This accompanied with Supporting Fire, is pretty effective. The Kroot have Infiltrate to counter your enemies deployment. Plus they give anyone standing behind them a 5+ cover, if they aren't the target themselves.

cont.

Are there rules for Fallen Angels in CSM?
I'm gonna include one in my army somewhere like Waldo.

>>44893822
Yes, scrap the character, he adds nothing to anything and rapes the fluff by his mere existence

If i have to, i will go back through those books to find that quote, and i will win this argument. He's beaten by some few warp entities-fateweaver is named-but in mortals or ex-mortals, he's stated to be the best, and he agrees about that with the caveat that some are beyond his ability to predict.

>traitor legions
There is only waging the long war under abaddon or acting like raiders-see the Astral Claws who are renegades who accept chaos worship without neccessitating it, that nurglite warband pillaging for pappy but with no goal in mind, various Khornate cults who kill not for Abaddon but for Khorne, etc. You can go and kill, but only abby keeps them following the purpose of the war

>not mentioning the firstborn of suedom
>> not admitting the other guy has you over the barrel
>>shiggy diggy

>ignoring all arguments about the factional leaders
all of the ones you mentioned make perfect sense in the setting's established fluff, have legitimate flaws, and are well written.

>touch me
i bow to nurge, not slaanesh. He shall see me through my darkest hour

>>44893950
there's a cypher formation

>>44893872
>Warp Spiders
Come on, they're at least an 8

>>44893672
Brother-Captain-4
Stern-4
Champion-2
Crowe-3
Librarian-7
Techmarine-5
Strike Squad-2
Terminators-6
Purifiers-5
Paladin-4
Dreadnought-2
Interceptors-5
Stormraven-4
Purgation Squad-4
Dreadknight-8
Draigo-7
Theyre mostly 'good', but some are as overpriced as Nob Bikers for what they give you-a great unit that costs half your points

>>44893672
Keeper of secets 9
Fateweaver/lord of change 9
Guo 7
Kugath 1
Bloodthristers/skarbrand 7
Skulltaker 6
Heralds 10
Changeling 1
Masque 4
Tally 7
Pink horrs,daemonettes 10
Blood letters 5
Plaguebearers 7
Elites 5
Screamers 8
Plage drones 7
Fleshhounds 8
Seekers 8
Burning chariot 6
Seeker chariots all 7
Skullcannon 7
Soul grinder 7
Prince 9

>>44893744
>doing it wrong
>>44893753
About right, maybe drop ruststalkers
>>44893872
>Warp spiders not being 9
otherwise about right. Bump fire prisms, too.
>>44893887
Thats about right, maybe bump mek guns to a seven, although some artillery does not a faction make

>>44894023
Whhops i ranked the book by itself and not against the wraithknight so everything gets 5 at best

>>44893951
>Yes, scrap the character, he adds nothing to anything and rapes the fluff by his mere existence

I disagree.

Having one Undivided Daemon Prince is better than having none.

>If i have to, i will go back through those books to find that quote, and i will win this argument. He's beaten by some few warp entities-fateweaver is named-but in mortals or ex-mortals, he's stated to be the best, and he agrees about that with the caveat that some are beyond his ability to predict.

You better use some citations because I read all Be'lakor material in 40K and nearly all of it in fantasy. None of you said is present in it.

>There is only waging the long war under abaddon or acting like raiders-see the Astral Claws who are renegades who accept chaos worship without neccessitating it, that nurglite warband pillaging for pappy but with no goal in mind, various Khornate cults who kill not for Abaddon but for Khorne, etc. You can go and kill, but only abby keeps them following the purpose of the war

No, Abaddon is THE important figure of the long war but he and his legion are not all of it.

For example, Typhus and Kharn are said to still fight the Long War. None of these guys bow before Abaddon.

>>not mentioning the firstborn of suedom

Being the first born child of anyone is hardly being suish. Everything has a start.

>all of the ones you mentioned make perfect sense in the setting's established fluff, have legitimate flaws, and are well written.

I am not ignoring. I am just saying you are lessening their faults and lowering their personal achievements. If I am going through them one by one, I will never finish.

As for Be'lakor? Is a flawed character like any other character. His ego being his greatest flaw and downfall, as expected from him being a devil-expy.


>i bow to nurge, not slaanesh. He shall see me through my darkest hour

The Gods re fickle and cruel. Who knows this better than the Shadowlord? Only he is your salvation.

>>44893822
>If they removed Undivided from him, they might as well scrap the character
You seem to be catching on.

>>44894121
To add to this.

40K really lacks machiavellian villains. It needs someone like Be'lakor

>>44893941
>Stealthsuits- 7
4+ cover with a fusion blaster is a must

>XV8- 8
Really, the core of the army. Kill marines, destroy vehicles, bounce around, wreck shop.

>XV8 Bodyguards- 8
Good if you plan on putting them with an Independant character. Ensures that your IC is the last man standing

>Ghostkeel- 10
Yeah, you cant hit what you cant see. And it's gonna hit you back

>Riptide- 10
No explanation necessary

>Drones-8 if markerlights, 2 guns or shields
A unit that can laze your stuff and still move and jump is good. BS2 but you can always bump it with other ML's

>Piranhas- ?
Haven't used it but fusion blaster at full bs. I like it. Plus the gun drones act as an additional unit to get objective

>Pathfinders- 2 if by themselves 7 if with cheese
Special weapons are nice, recon drone is nice, the other two drones are underwhelming, and markerlights always nice but they snap if you move. Not the best ML unit

>Devilfish- 7
Make use of its jinks. It's there to transport not shoot. You need disruption pods. Put it as a dedicated transport in a troopslot and you have two more units with Objective Secured. The vehicle and the unit of drones.

>Sunshark-?
>Razorshark-?
Haven't used em.

>Vespids-?
Haven't used them but they do have AP3 weapons

>Sniperdrone team-7
Good, that markerlight at bs 5 can bump another ML unit up. The drones are nice. Hope for 6's

>Hammerhead-7
Ioncannon is a 3shot s7ap3 or a s8ap3 largeblast. The rail cannon is s10ap1 or a s6ap4. So its good depending on what you're going for. Longstrike makes it BS5, supporting fire, blacksun goggles, and tank hunter.

>Skyray-6
A decent AA unit.

>Broadside-8
big guns, big fun

>Stormsurge-10
bigger guns, bigger fun

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>No new CSM book in 2016

Looks like i picked the perfect time to branch out to Salamanders!

>>44893744
Your vanguard have base weapons of assault 3. what the fuck are you doing?

>>44893927
Yeah, I was thinking of attaching ahriman to the rubric marines.

Thanks a bunch for the tips. My idea for anti-tank was to have one chaos marine squad be the normal balanced squad and give the other squad a melta gun, basically....or is that not a thing in the newer editions?

But yeah, you are probably right I need a dedicated anti-vehicle guy. Any suggestions? Maybe obliterators?

>>44893672
Hoo boy.

Saint Celestine - 7
Uriah Jacobus - 4
Canoness - 5
Ecclesiarchy battle conclave - 6
Ministorum Priest - 8
Sororitas command squad - 4
Battle sisters - 6
Rhino - 5
Immolator - 7
Celestians - 3
Repentia - 1
Seraphim - 8
Dominions - 9
Exorcist - 9
Penitent engine - 3
Retributors - 7

>>44893744
I'll buy them off of you. My brother in law needs them. How much?

>>44894181
Rating them in binary.

I thought it might be mildly amusing.

Sorry.

>>44894208
I never played against the Sisters. Tell me, what are they best at?

>>44894215
:D
lel. You computer dudes never cease to amuse me. Muhbad dawg.

>>44893744
This is a binary joke, right..?

>>44893672
Alright senpai.

Archon: 3 (6 if you take him for the webway portal and nothing else)
Court of the Archon: 7
Drazhar: 2
Haemonculus: 3
Lelith: 3
Succubus: 5 (only usable HQ other than the court)
Urien Rakarth: 4

Bloodbrides: 0 (you forgot these are worse than Wyches, senpai)
Grotesques: 8 (fuck I love these guys)
Incubi: 7
Trueborn: 5
Mandrakes: 4
Wracks: 3 (5 in Scalpel Squadron)

Kabalites: 6 (autoincludes for obvious reasons)
Wyches: 0.5

Beast Packs: 3
Hellions: 1
Raider: 9 (I maintain that these are the single best transports in the game)
Razorwing: 6
Reavers: 7 (potentially my favorite unit)
Scourge: 7 (autoinclude)
Venom: 8 (autoinclude, you'll still take them over Raiders most of the time)

Cronos: 5
Ravager: 6 (if you already have enough Dark Lances on Raiders or Blasters on Warriors to reliably get Crew Shaken results, these aren't needed. Just take Scourge)
Talos: 5 (8 in their formation)
Voidraven: 4

>>44894237
Yup.

With hindsight I should have rated the Kastellans in hexadecimal though.

>>44894121
>heres a hard and fast limit
>except for that one guy, he's cool

I read it and i'll find it. Give me time

>kharn
going around murdering things for enjoyment+the favour of khorne, not to continue the war

>typhus
hopes to become a Daemon Prince by spreading plagues amongst the nearest population-namely the imperium

>lucius
going around torturing things for keks

>ahriman
trying to do his own thing, doing be'lakors search for divinity better than Be'lakor ever has despite its futility

Abaddon is the only one leading the long war. He might recruit other important people like the respective CSM champions, but they are in it for the slaughter, the prestige, the favour of their gods or the fun. Not to kill the corpse emperor and finish what was started ten millenia ago.

> first born child of anyone is hardly being suish
But being the first and only is

>lessening their faults
sure, right. Clever guys, smart strategists, rose through the ranks by being skilled and learning from their defeats. They have their victories and their defeats, and are at the top of their factions through skill, without unique special snowflake wankery. Eldrad survived ten millenia and improved the whole time while watching everything he ever made slowly come to ruin, Calgar is a skilled general who still got turned into a multiple-amputee by a bunch of bugs, the Swarmlord is a bioweapon used by the Hive Mind as a semiautonomous micromanagement agent and a single-enemy removal system. Eldrad is a good faction leader, Calgar was sueish under Ward-writing but thats stopped now, and swarmlord is in no way more sueish than a hormagaunt or trygon

They have faults, but none of them are the mary sues that Be'lakor is, they are all established bits of the setting, not just shoehorned into everything chaos with some badly-written fluff in to sell models that could be used in 40k and fantasy.

>>44894207
No probs. You can definitely do that, but with the lack of AT in your army, honestly I'd give them both 2 meltaguns each. You've plenty of regular shooting (and AP3) to take out regular dudes. You need specialized shooting now.

Also got a bout of deja-vu about answering this post, huh. Anyway, I used to use 1x3 or 2x4 Obliterators before and they work well but have leadership issues (in a max squad of 3, one loss has them fall back as it's a 33% loss). Later on I switched to 2 Forgefiends.

I'm actually hoping when the new codex comes there's a formation for a forgefiend so I can take them AND my poor neglected Oblits.

>>44894225
A competitive sisters army is one the few armies that could table Knights. Army-wide Adamantium will makes it tough on Psychic armies. Mechanised armies auto-lose against competitive lists.
Seraphim + Celestine can kite a horde with 5 templates, then hit and run away at I7.
They struggle against massed 3+ saves, fast assault armies and Invisible MCs.

>>44894278
Thats brutal. Can you post a pic of your army? I love how the Repentia squad looks. Why'd you rate them a 1? Don't they have brutal ass chainswords?

>>44894299
I'd assume because they are canonically barely clothes footslogging ladies that are such because they sinned so they don't get any of the fancy protection.

In 40k the whole penitent thing is usually "This is meant to be a suicide mission and you'll probably not even succeed also. This is just a more civil excuse to have you offed and we'll make every attempt at making that happen".

But those characters are endearing because they're the underdogs.

Does anyone know if this list would be good vs marines.
Inq in power armor with bolter
2xComissar
2xvetaran squads in chimeras with two flamers, and a melta in each one
2 lemman russes with hull mounted lascannon and hvy bolter sponsons. a taking the sponsons as point fillers
1xaegis gunline
30xconscripts
5x ogryns to defend the chimeras from bikes, if they get close.

>>44892648

Ogryns and bullgryns have a state line close to a warboss and they are not that great even though they can be easily made fearless with a priest.

I would say it could work but I am not sure what the point cost should be.

>>44894133
>implying that not everyone is a villain in 40k
The humans kill aliens because muh emprah
Tau will kill you if you refuse to join them and cut off your balls and rip out your ovaries if you do (Although in their defence that only happened in worlds where the humans in question fought the tau in the first place)
The Eldar wants everything to be balanced and killing shit balances it out

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>>44894299
Just for you, Anon. <3

I haven't bothered painting my Repentia because of how awful they are. The best way to play them is to put em in a Rhino, and disembark with the 3+ armoured Superior at the front.

>>44894029
>Thats about right, maybe bump mek guns to a seven, although some artillery does not a faction make

I did consider a 7 for Mek Gunz, but what should be considered I feel is that there's really 2 viable gunz out of the 7 available. The unit is horribly vulnerable to anything that targets leadership because they're LD5. They also fold instantly to quite literally anything that assaults them. Fire Warriors can take them out in close combat. They're immobile without spending a lot on a HQ in mega-armour (and this is a questionable investment anyway).

For the two gunz that they do have however they are extremely good, and relatively cheap. Both gunz (KMKs and Traktor Kannons) are very good at what they're designed to do. This though I feel places them in the same category as Tankbustas. Both units have definite strengths, but also each has serious deficiencies that I feel warrants them staying at a 6.

>>44892162

WE WON'T NEED REPLIES TO TO TROLL WHERE WE'RE GOIN'.

>>44894413
That's such a good looking army. I really like how they look.

>>44894425
As a grey Knights player, i would kill for what you have with 18 ppm basic kannons. Other muhreens get rapiers and sabres via FW, i get nothing other than another overpriced land raider variant and a 200-point dreadnought wit an extra d6 attacks-on a 2-attack base.

>>44892960
Be'lakor.

At the top of the charts of both "most powerful psykers" and "shittiest characters" since his creation

>>44894446
Thanks, man.
Yeah, sisters are pretty unique in the way they look. Other armies now look like a mesh between sci-fi and gothic themes, where sisters are stuck with the 2nd-3rd edition look.

>>44893609
>He was beaten back despite the retcons.

Nigger please. There have never been retcons. Since day one each Crusade has ended with Abaddon achieving his goals. It's one thing you're stupid enough to reply to Carnac (who the fuck DOESN'T know to ignore Belakor shitposting?), but arguing with Carnac AND losing? That is a new low.

>>44894450

Fair point. I'd kill for your Dreadknights.

They may fit well into an army that is deficient in a particular role. But let's consider as well that in an Ork army, they're in Heavy Support, which aside from HQ is our most packed and contested slot. Your army may be deficient in good HS choices, in which case I'm sure you'd love 18 ppm missile launchers with T7 and a 3+ save. But for an Ork army, their position has to be taken into account as well.

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>>44894547
>Since day one each Crusade has ended with Abaddon achieving his goals.

>>44894548
The dreadknight is our only not-awful HS slot, and i hate the fact hat it carries my entire army on its goofy shoulders. That said, i get how awful the ork dex is, and how packed your HS is.

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>>44894547
>mfw the anon that anon responded to was me, not Carnac.
Tactical Genius.
Just as planned.
Keikaku.

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>>44894238
I'm an Eldar/Harlequin player and I agree wholeheartedly about the Raider...ever since I discovered it I've been thinking about a way to turn it into my own personal clowncar.

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Can I use more than one color for the Sept markings?

>>44894631
Ooh, I like using that jetbike face on the front of that Raider. I run Cast of Players sometimes, might be cool to get a Raider dressed up just for them like that.

>>44894579

>Memebird!

You know if you are the asserting a "retcon" has taken place the burden of proof is to show that there is inconsistency in the fluff showing that the crusades were originally not about gathering different artifacts and resources, but destroying Terra. So please post the source that shows Abaddon's previous Crusades were failed attempts to do this. Or are you another /v/ immigrant who got all his opinions from 1d4chan?

>>44894610

So if I'm Carnac you're still replying to me? By that logic you've still lost by feeding Carnac.

>>44894463
That's inevitable, since the two lists are one and the same.
That sorcery shit will bring the Imperium to its end. All the SM chapters should ban those fuckers like us Space Wolves did and start using more reliable forces like the energy of Macragge or Baal, like our Rune Priests do with Fenris's energy

>>44894656
No, he is saying you are Carnac.

>>44894644
Currently I run Harelquins mostly for the Skyweavers because I have a jetbike themed army, but I'm thinking about investing in a Raider with Soulfright, loading it up with the Cast of Players with a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets, have the squad joined by an Archon with Armour of Misery. Crash that sucker into enemy infantry to distract with leadership shenanigans while my jetbikes swarm all over the board. Between the AoE -4 to Leadership, the Jester's gun, the Shadowseer, Soulfright, I think it would mess up a lot of people's days. I almost want to include an Autarch with Banshee mask to negate Overwatch too, but then you're squeezing way too many dudes into that damn Raider.

>>44894696
>>44894631
I'm ignorant of DEldar. The way you speak makes it sound like the Raider can transport an unlimited number of dudes.

Which would be hilarious since it's just a flying platform dudes can latch onto. Would be cool if it gets an increasing chance to have a mishap if it starts taking on more than 20 models or something.

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>mfw to this thread
Y'll nigas shouldn't be doing this early in the morning. Listen to some Mario music and chill out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckxy-i7Dc5U

>>44894696
I love leadership shenanigans too. I use the Grotesquerie (2 Grotesque squads, with a 12" aura of -1LD) in almost all my lists, and take an allied Craftworld CAD when I want to go the LD shenanigan route. One Farseer goes in each Grotesque squad (majority T5!), while one of them also packs the formation's Haemonculus tax and the second takes a Succubus with Armor of Misery. A third Raider carries the Cast of Players with Mask of Secrets Shadowseer, so up to -5LD to any unit. That combined with three sources of Psychic Shriek is killer. Two units of Warriors in Venoms fill out the DE Troops and provide some ranged support (as do allied Craftworld Troops, currently I'm thinking I'll go Rangers because frankly using Windriders makes me feel dirty).

The rest of the points go into Reaver Jetbikes, with a pair of Haywire Scourge teams just to pop transports and destroy the walkers that the rest of the army has trouble with.

I'm thinking of running the Masque Detachment alongside a Dark Eldar CAD and Grotesquerie, though. Shadowseers conferring Hit & Run to the Grotesques is a very appealing thought. Don't have enough clowns to do it yet, though.

>>44894638
Paint them how you want mate, there's no rules

Why do people insist on this meme that drones are scoring units! The codex clearly states that an all drone unit is non scoring.

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Is it possible to run a Renegades and Heretics army that isn't heavy in numbers? I like their appeal, but I'm not a fan of using a large amount of units.

>>44894815

Easy to miss in this age of "every unit scores".

>>44894762
Sounds fun. I wanted to go the grotesque route but too many units to buy for now. Maybe in the grim darkness of the far future.

>>44894742
Nah, just 12. So for every special dude I add I have to remove a clown. But it's just a very fast, cheap and fairly survivible option for transporting dainty fairy men.

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>>44894822
Use tanks I guess.

When doing morale test, do you have to use the leadership of the unit or a warlord 12 away?

>>44894822
Use tanks or artillery, or spam those super-ogryns in a Purge detachment

>>44894878
You use the highest leadership in the squad. There's a Warlord Trait which lets you use their leadership instead, but if your Warlord don't have it, you use the highest in the squad making the test.

>>44894872
>>44894883
>tanks
damm, not that much of a fan of those either

>spam those super-ogryns in a Purge detachment
I guess that might be the only option.

>>44894676

>"So if I'm Carnac you're still replying to me?"
>No, he is saying you are Carnac.

I don't think you can read anon.

Hi guys, any ork players in? I want to start a footslogging ork army because I love the models and I can get ork boyz so cheap. I want to start with the Ork Warband formation as the base of a 1000 point army.

Ork Warband - This requires 1 Warboss, 1 Mek, 1 unit of Nobz/Meganobs, 6 units of Boyz & 1 unit of Gretchin

What do you suggest I add to this and any ust have upgrades for them?

>>44894924
Can you guys drop it? Can't you guys ignore him, and leave him to die as he lived while we have a decent thread?

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>It's a Carnac defending shitty characters like Be'lakor and Abaddon thread

Help.

>>44894992
Abaddon is way better than Carnac's husband.

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>>44895023

>>44895043
Lord Topknot > daemon with no topknot

>>44894822

No. All the elite infantry are over priced. Spawn are good but they will have to be backed up with cheap bodies.

People emailed FW about why a BS3,WS4 human was worth 10pts and FW claim they are meant to suck due to them being renegades not guardsmen. Which makes no sense on a game level if you ask me.

>>44895065
Really just wanted a reason to use that gif. Abbadon is truly better.

>>44894948
No.
It's more fun this way.

>>44894277
Mm, 2 metas on each squad. Yeah, that sounds possible and cheaper than oblis.

Also, remember I have a helbrute. That starts with a melta gun so that's another one there.

>>44895079
I don't see how.

Be'lakor made Abaddon.

>>44895088
How is this fun?
>>44895079
Thanks for posting it.

>>44894852
Does it have to specifically say a unit doesn't score for it to not be a scorer? My last game I had a three man ravenwing bike unit and my opponent tried telling me they couldn't score. I am pretty sure none of my vehicles but bikes aren't vehicles.

Vindi or Predator for dealing with tanks n stuff?

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>>44895105
We're coming for you fuccboi.

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>>44895105

>he's better guise trust me
>why?
>because gw recently shoehored him into being abaddon's father

>>44895187
Too late.

Your race is dead. Thanks to Be'lakor 's baby boy.

>>44895194
They haven't made him Abaddon 's dad yet.

But he is responsible for the success of Abaddon. He deserves some credit.

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>>44895204
What's that? I can't hear you over the sound of Be'lakor "screaming back whence he came".

>>44895120
It will specify in the unit entry or codex if a unit isn't scoring. Drones in the tau codex have their own fucking PAGE that specifies an all drone unit cannot score. I' sure there are other example and, I think the lone wolf unit thing in space wolves are also non scoring.

>>44894000
Trips of truth confirm this. Won't stop me from liking Crowe's badassness though.

>>44895258
Is asking for AP3 for a super-demon-sword too much when the model costs an arm and a leg?

>>44895279
It should. Though honestly I don't know why his special rule doesn't make it so enemies MUST accept his challenges. The rule as is, is almost pointless.

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Look who I found. He's looking pretty lonely.

>>44892508
Eldrad, Kairos, and Ahriman are the only Mastery Level 4 psykers in the game. Following them are the all the Space Marine Chief Librarian Level 3's and generic Chaos psykers up to level 3 (4 with a Black Legion relic).

I'd be interested to see a non-apocalyptic, non end times reboot future interation of the setting that, through the success of the 13th crusade as the catalyst, shakes the grimdark snowglobe to watch where things settle.

The idea that taking out terra would cause the universe to dissolve into the warp is a horrendously poor writing concept to me. The Galaxy as a whole was just fine before the Emperor came along and it ought to do fine without him. Humans? Yeah, humans will have an insane number of problems as a result, but the idea that space itself dissolves? Fuck off.

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>>44895279
well you lost rending but gained challenge buffs and independent character. i guess he could tap into the daemon weapon powers for a bit since he's incorruptible, though i'm sure that's a fluff rape

>>44895302
well, it's cinematic and it did help out in the fluff when he had to distract skulltaker from taking over that planet.

>>44895309
>Brother Captain I am pinned down.
>Did I not serve the Emperor well enough?

>>44895309
>Pstt, kid
>Psst, hey
>You saw nothing
>'Who the fuck-'
>Nothing

>>44894934
I highly suggest you spend a long time considering if you truly want to spend over a month painting models that won't last past round 3. I bought (and I know it's my fault) a whole army for a glorious tide with the 4th edition dex and before I finished painting my first mob the new dex dropped. I've since lost my appetite for painting them. No amount of savings will overcome that. You better love the model, because that formation isn't going to last on the tabletop.

>>44895309

How bad is the Sigmar propaganda in there?So thick on the walls it's oppressive and hostile to be around?

>>44895358
>challenge buffs
anyone either refuses his challenge, so he does no damage and bounces off flak armour, or uses an even killier guy who can kill him before he swings. He's dead weight

>>44895355
It really is poor writing, but it's not without foundation. Sure, the Earth before the Emperor was fine, but one of the reason it was fine was because it didn't have one of the (if not THE) most powerful psyker ever there acting as the center of a machine that has effect on almost all the galaxy

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>>44895374

Not enough to bring anyone in to play the dumb game.

>>44895355
Space itself fucking itself should Terra fall is just Imperial propaganda.
Without the Astronomicon warp travel becomes an order of magnitude harder. Still possible for insanely skilled/lucky navigators though.
Even if the Imperium was utterly shattered, Terra blown into a shattered husk and Mars along with it. There will still be humans, fighting, with lasguns and determination, somewhere.

At what point limit is it ok to bring a riptide?

>>44895407

Yeah, that's my point.

A changed status quo, post fall of earth could be interesting as a setting. Not to the point of tossing out the current setting to get there, but interesting nonetheless.

You have Abaddon trying to make his new empire work, you have the Ultramarines firing up their mini empire contingency, all kinds of other little squabbling factions all over the place. Increased heresy, opportunistic Xenos.

The biggest flaw is the Tyranids having an easier time in a more fractured Galaxy. Even then, we do have the plot thread of the Silent King organising a resistance against them.

>>44895407
I like the Terminator-esque setting of a nearly fucked humanity, a few enclaves on planets covered in orks, nids and chaos nerds, a few desperados living with xenos, roaming, etc. Would make for a great roleplay setting.

>>44895400
Emps is also holding a second eye of terror terra geddit closed while powering the astronomicon, if he dies then theres another massive warp rift formed. Its the leftover from where magnus barged in on the human webway project, and the reason daddy was angrier than a bloodthirster

>>44895452

1 at 1000, 1 more per 500 points after.

Adjust for particularly harsh metas to just 1 per 500, adjust down for super casual Ork and Nid heavy metas to 1 per 1000.

Vindi or Predator for dealing with tanks n stuff?

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>>44895452

It's okay the moment you buy it. No one has a right to tell you you can't use a model you paid good money for.

Take these CSM cucks for example. When they had the 3.5 codex they all played Iron Warriors or Word Bearers daemon bombs and they would tell anyone dumb enough to listen they did so because they love 'the fluff' of these armies. Anyway my point is when people like that had something powerful they used it and loved it. Now that they don't they cry. Don't let people like that dictate to you what models you use, because if the shoe is on the other foot they will crush you.

>>44895389
i don't play grey knights so i suppose he's a character meant for smaller games where you don't need draigo or another big fighter, but he doesn't seem like a support character like the tech priest or libby. seems like a match for fighting daemon heralds but you're right that he'd get smashed by a keeper or bloodthrister.

>>44895474
It's against Space Furry friend.
And I only got the one. Don't think I'll ever get more.

>>44895465

Logically the Terra rift isn't going to be as big as the Eye, being just a badly broken webway gate, unless things get fucked up further by the Emperor ascending into a hostile warp entity.

Allowed to progress naturally, it'd prolly just make the solar system uninhabitable.

>>44895482
but he's ap- unless hes in a challenge, wears power armour, has no invuln and is footslogging it. He needs either some mobility or some challenge compulsion rule.

>>44895494
Magnus smashed through it with tzeentch behind him while emps was halfway through building the entire webway network, it was more than a broken webway gate. Maybe not eye of terror, but certainly bigger than the Maelstrom

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>>44895492

It beckons...

>>44892605
Yeah, Markerlights are the best psyker powers in the game. The enemy can't deny them and they always do something good.

>>44895453
It's an interesting idea for a direction to take the setting but I'm hesitant for GW to go full Age of Sigmar with 40k. Used to think Warhammer Fantasy lore was pretty cool but after reading some of the lore behind AoS (Skaven overrunning the WORLD, Lizardmen cities falling, Chaos going nuts and fucking everybody, Elves hiding on their island and asking to be alone) it now seems like the setting is so chaotic that advancing it anywhere from here will be going full circle and back to the status quo from before. I think GW have written themselves into a corner this time.

>>44895454
This is actually part of a setting I'm brainstorming for a game of Rogue Trader I want to GM. Long story short, business as normal, then the FIRST time a party member fails their perils of the warp, or gellar field deactivates during warp travel I'm going to have the warp decide to fart them out like 20-30,000 years in the future. Everywhere they travel all they find is dead planets and wrecked ships.
No real exposition, but heavily implying Tyranids finally won and moved on to another galaxy. See what the party does, now that they and their ships crew of 10,000ish are now the only living beings for unimaginable distances. Maybe some Deldar survived by hiding in the webway, maybe there are Orks out there still fighting Tyranid remnants etc. I haven't fleshed it out fully yet.

>>44895372
I undertsand that this won't be the most viable competitive army. I have a a more seriously built 1850 point AM army but I love orks and would love a 1000 point horde for casual games. Then again, I want to play the best I can, so any advice would be great. Also, I'm buying them painted at about 50p a boy so im really only going to paint everything else and leave the boys as they are

>>44895479
vindicator, you can never go wrong with big dumb shots.

>>44895625
As an Ork player, the words competitive and viable should just completely drop from your lexicon. Literally the only hope you have is against friends playing unoptimized lists. For the longest time I only played against my best friends space wolves. My first actual pick up game was against tau. After that an actually semi optimized wolf army. Both tabled my horde. I love the models too, but just for that. The looks. I don't play Orks unless it's against my gf's inq kill team.

>>44895481

>Mercilessly monkeystomp CSM 'cucks' because all of them powerlisted in 3.5 edition

Just curious anon, do you actually believe your own bullshit, or do you just say whatever convenient excuse pops into your head in order to justify your ill-will and pent up frustration/anger?

Not everyone played in 3.5 retard. And encouraging anons to powergame other anons just because you're hung up on your bad attitude is shamefully anti-social. Stay fat and unhappy, big boy.

>>44895712
what if I told you Orks is at the top of our meta? Of course we don't have tau, elder, or crons in our play group. Kind of hard to believe, but its the truth.

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>>44895739

>all people play in my area are orks
>orks are top of the meta

>>44895739
Where? I want to move wherever you are.

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>>44895774
glorious orks. orks as far as the eye can see. so glorious.

>>44895242
Sorry, anon, but having one of your lesser loan bodies destroyed doesn't equal to having your entire race and homeland destroyed.

>>44894350
No it's not. In fact that's not a good list against anything. Unless you are going unbound that list doesn't even fill the compulsory choices.

First off, which ordo does your inquisitor belong to? And why does he not have any servo skulls? Depending on which kind of inquisitor you choose you should use them as a force multiplier.

Secondly, why the fuck have you mixed special weapons on the veteran squads? Have them all melta. Also, you can't take a 30 man conscript squad unless you have a Platoon for it to belong to, so you need at least 1 command squad and 2 guardsmen squads. You should also take off the lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons off the Leman Russ BT's, they are just a waste of points.

Thridly, has the aegis defence line got a quad gun? if so you should probably specify. Get rid of the Ogryns because they just waste points. If you insist on taking them then whatever. The other problem is you have no AP 2 weapons so you should do something about that that is not plasma pistols or plasma guns on standard troops.

Oh, and you need to start formatting your lists properly because that is a fucking mess. you need to structure units to something like this at least:

SM Assault Squad 205pts
- 10 models
- 2 Flamers
- Veteran Sergeant: Power Fist

This way you can clearly see how many models make up the unit, what its points cost is, and what upgrades you have given the unit.

>>44895525
What's that?

>>44895452
I would probably be considered a horrible person for wanting to field an unbound army consisting entirely of a Riptide, Stormsurge, R'varna, Y'varha and a Ghostkeel?

Its honestly not for power gaming reasons, I just really like giant robots but regular crisis/stealth teams just don't do it for me.

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>>44895873

>>44895847
On a unrelated note, on that example just noticed I didnt put they had Jump Packs, so in reality they would not cost that many points. You get the idea though.

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>>44895917

>Unbound

Do you even cheese?

>>44895355
All of you are retards.

Space won't explode just because.

Humanity is entering it's final phase of their psychic evolution iin tthe Age of Ending. The Emperor is safeguarding humanity this process. If he dies, then Chaos will hyjack it and turn every human in the galaxy into a Chaos vomiting warp portal. Reality will drown in Chaos.

>>44895739
What kind of army do they field?

>>44895930
Oh yeah!
Didn't it used to be ap3 and got nerfed?

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>>44895917
>>44895978

>>44895978
No, because I'm not a dick.

>>44895995
Its a group of friends. Variations of space marines, Daemons, Chaos, Orks, Nids. We all play for fun and are casual to boot.

>>44895978
You can take formations in Unbound, though.

>>44895978
>>44896013

>Coordinated Attack

Wait! Can you use equip the whole Ghostkeel/Riptide with target locks and receive the benefits from the formation?

Who cares if the Webway behind the throne breaks, would be good to finally see the custodes live up to their name and skill.

Thunderwarriors return.

>>44896049
I mean like what kind of ork army does he field, my bad

>>44895101
I know bro, but trust me, it's not enough. If you have access to some cheapo terminators from AobR or whatevs, slap some milliput and bits on them and make Oblits. that's what I did.

Meltas in general are good against a lot of targets. Ignores all armour saves, high strength and all that. Just poor range.

>>44896114
walkers, speed freaks, green tide.

3 different armies.

>>44896105
They've been fighting the daemons all this time. Collapsing it means Terra is lost.

>>44896131
oops. 3 different armies, 3 different people

BLITZ BRIGADE
L
I
T
Z

B
R
I
G
A
D
E

My store gets the standard store display of Games Workshop items, first in the country. I want to start playing 40k with my friend.
How much will I have to spend?
What races aren't absolute garbage?
Why do I want to play Necron so bad?

>>44896177

Eldar to rape everyone.

>>44896177

Two troops + Warlord for small battles.

>>44896177
>How much will I have to spend?
In the long run? Less than you would for game console + games

I find that keeping a squad of pathfinders in a devilfish is really great.
Since they're in a vehicle they're survivable until the late game unless your opponent focuses their AT-fire on them which leaves your other HVTs free to wreck shit.

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In a week or so I'm going to a 1000 point event at my local store. I'm running Tzeentch daemons and managed to squeeze six of these cocksuckers into my list.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99599915002_Chaosspawn01.jpg

Does that make me a bad person? Liek would someone get made if a Nid player brought six Fexs to a 1000 point game?

>>44896329
What are it's stats?

Is there any rules for starship weapons vs tabletop armies? Something abou a crashed Imperual Frigate firing its batteries at other tables?

>>44896518
There's orbital bombardment on inquisitor characters and chapter masters, that's about it.

>>44896518
Yeah they used to be Strength D back when D was reserved for really powerful things........now any floozy gets it.

rate my Deldar list.

2 Realspace Raiders Detatchments (merged them for easier reading) - 2000 points

HQ:

- Archon, shadowfield, Huskblade, animus vitae, haywire grenades (warlord) - 150 points
>Court of the Archon: 3 Sslyth, 1 Laeman w/ venom transport - 55 points

- Succubus w/ Archite Glaive, haywire grenades - 100 points

- Succubus w/ Archite Glaive, armour of Misery, haywire grenades - 115 points

- Lelith Hesperax - 150 points

Troops:

- 5 Kalbalite Warriors, 1 Blaster - 55 points
>Venom Transport w/ splinter cannon - 65 points

3 x 8 Wyches - 240 points
>3 Raider transports w/ nightshields - 210 points

Fast attack:

2 x 5 scourges, 4 with Heat Lances - 240 points

5 x 3 Reaver Jetbikes w/ 1 Cluster Caltrops - 315 points

Heavy Support:

- Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances, night shields - 140 points

Bascially trying to play Herohammer.

Each Succubus/ Lelith will go with a wych squad.

MSU reaver jetbikes can soak overwatch fairly well with T4 & 3+ cover save from skilled rider and can harm literally anything on the charge with 3 +D6 rending HoW.

I've basically taken very little anti-tank because no one really take armour that much anymore.

If I run into an armour heavy list I should be good on grabbing objectives.

What do you guys think?

>>44896329
not really, they're not say riptides or another commonly used model. they are pretty good though and chaos daemons are known for fielding lots of monsters. they move at the speed of infantry but have t6

How long until there are various levels of D strength. We already see the Eldar D-Templates with a modifier. When does the Power Fist become D with profiles for what it is attacking like Infantry or Vehicle.

Before you all choke at the bit screaming RETARD, the power spiking going on now is undeniable

>>44896643
>power spiking is undeniable

not in the Ork codex it isn't

>>44896643
I wait and hope for the next edition to do away with D-spam. Ranged D in regular scale is bullshit, CC D should be reserved for 400+ point models. Wraithknights should be 420 points bare with s10 rather than D for their cannons. Knights might get a 25 point increase all around

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>>44896643
eldar are a tad different, giving D to wraithcannons was a bit much but they were already s10 ap2 with instant death on roll to wound. i don't think we'll see much strength D unless it's a formation or already monstrously powerful. like a unit of 3 deathstrikes, a lv3 chaos daemon psychic power, vortex grenade becoming a relic in a space marine book.

>>44896508
here ya go

>>44896508
Mostly 8 points for STR/T 6, 4 wounds, ITND and 1d2+2 attacks and rage. Slow as sin but they can really mess people up if they get in close. Mostly need them to draw fire from my horrors while they summon dudes in.

>>44896765
80 poitns, muh bad.

>>44896177
>Why do I want to play Necron so bad?
Because spoopy space skellingtons

>>44896747
>1/3 chance to get 2+ FnP in CC
Fug. Pity these things can't be used for CSM.

>>44896290
Unless, of course, you play Guard.

>>44896177
Don't do it. It's not worth it, and you shouldn't support a horrible company.

>>44896747
I can't find shit about the gigantic chaos spawn aside from Age of Shitmar bollocks on the FW website.

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>>44896897
actually it gets more odd, because you used to able to do that in the last book they were in. also it got moved to the heavy support slot for some reason.

>>44896978
from the OP links battle brother, imperial armour 13 page 201. there's not much to tell about it besides what's posted. it's about the size of a forgefiend i believe. the spined chaos beast is slightly better at a higher cost in addition to being a daemon. it's a forgeworld model so you probably haven't seen it though it's rather unsightly in the style of the OOP chaos spawn and not in a good way.

>>44894666
>energy of Baal
>implying that's not what the Sanguinary discipline is

Also, nice trips

That makes me wonder, what would an Ultramarine-exclusive psychic discipline be like?

>>44897065
Goddamnit, the Spined one is honestly meh compared to the other. Almost twice the points for the privilege of having DI and less attacks.. at half leadership and no save. Nah, mun.

>>44893655
>No chapter master comes even close
Other than the fact that the fluff has Logan Grimnar, Dante, and Calgar as the chapter master god triad, with Azrael close behind?

>>44897134
Boring.

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>>44893672
Dorky Orksies

>Warboss- 6 (7 on warbike)
Very solid HQ, needs more fun/fluffy options, why the fuck dont warbikers become troops when he takes bikes or Nobz/Meganobz become troops
>Big Mek- 6
Barely just 6, needs more fun/fluffy options
>Weirdboy- 4
He's fun if fielded with multiples, but give them Biomancy and Pyromancy
>Painboy-6
Second most viable HQ
>Mad Dok Grotsnik- 2
I have no idea why anyone would field him for 160pts
>Kaptin Badrukk- 6.5
For 110pts he is actually very viable as a HQ and has the only Invul save in the codex
along with getting an armour/invul save reroll per turn
>Boss Zagstruk- 2
Only reason he isnt 1 is because he's cheap, should make Stormboyz troops

>Boyz- 5
Solid troops choice with you ask me, I run mine as shootas for the deceptive amount of dakka. If they do not get the charge or get bogged in combat, they're worthless.
>Grots- 5
People swear by them, I have too much Barrage in my meta to consider using them as objective sitters

>Burna Boyz- 4
If you can manage to get a Battlewagon load of them near enough for flame template shenanigans then sure, otherwise only used for Meks in Stompas/Orkanauts
>Tankbustas- 8
Genuinely the best unit in the codex, you can really tell they realized how bad the old ones were
>Nobz- 1
Absolutely garbage, LD7 and they get as/more expensive than Meganobz
>Meganobz- 6
Wish they had an Invul save but otherwise quite solid
>Kommandos- 5
Snikrot shenanigans

>Trukk- 1.5
Ha.
>Stormboyz- 4.5
Quite good for getting across the board damn near instantly
>Defkoptas/Warbuggies- 3
Some swear by them, I think they're about the same usefulness as Trukks with Grots in them
>Dakkajet/Burna Bomba/ Blitza Bommer- 5/2/5.5
All pale in comparison to all other flyers in the game and are usually just as expensive.
>Warbikes- 8
Probably my vote for the best unit in the Codex

>Mek Gunz- 5
3 Viable options (KMK, Traktor, Lobba), others are either slightly too unreliable to dangerously retardedly unreliable
Cont.

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>>44897252
cont.

>Battlewagon- 6
I would personally rate this good, but lost a lot in the 7th codex (Deffrolla), way too expensive at base cost
>Deff Dread-4
Not viable in the codex, only usable in Dread mob
>Killa Kan- 4.5
Puts out some pretty good dakka but 50pts base is fucking criminally overpriced
>Gorkanaut- 4
Why the fuck is it not Superheavy for this fucking price
>Morkanaut- 4.5
Only because it has a large KFF bubble from its base
>Lootas- 6.5
Good stuff, always been solid
>Flash Gitz- 6
Although I think they should get free Eavy Armour I also think this is one of the more underrated options in the codex

>Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka- 7
This is more self opinion, I love him and still believe he's one of the best CC HQs in the game. Plus the metal model can be used as a deadly weapon.
>Stompa- 2
This could quite possibly be the most overcosted units in the game, only reason it isnt 1 is because of the Build-A-Stompa IA option.

Average of 4.7 off that, jesus haha. Sorry about mega post

>>44897220
Ignore the Carnac

>>44897140
actually you're right. small note but i think it's the first daemonic instability model to also have fearless

Hey if I am using the Ravenwing and Deathwing Strikeforces can I bring 1 Mace of Redemption Chapter Relic per force or overall in my army?

If only 1 does it go on my Int Chap on Bike or Librarian in Termi Armor

>>44896586

I think people who are play to win will think this list sucks. Wyches are pretty bad, Archon usually isn't worth it with all those upgrades, most people run him as a cheap HQ. Lelith is overpriced too and not very good.

Kabalite Warriors are great and what all competitive DE players use, Scourges are good, most people run them with Haywire Blasters. Reaver Jetbikes are probably the best unit in the codex with the cluster caltrops. Ravagers are still probably the best anti-tank unit in the book with the dark lances.

I think your list sounds cool, but I'm the kind of player that runs lists that I think are cool, not necessarily optimal for gaming. For example I use wyches even though they're dog shit, I just like the minis too much not to use them.

>>44896897
It's weird too. CSM get the daemon spawn, but daemons get both the daemonic and none daemonic spawns.

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>>44897329
Only 1 per army.

>>44893672
>>44893672

Only doing units I have attempted to use, I will give my extremely noob opionion where I feel it is warranted

Sammael - 5 - Why does he have to be 200 points? I got the model because I thought it was beautiful (forgetting I can't paint) and he is just too large of an investment when compared to my Int Chap

Int Chap - 7 - While he may not be the end all be all he has served me well I just wish I could select the Ravenwing OR Deathwing rule for them or something.

Librarian - 8 - For what a basic librarian is, he is good at it I think. He is my first Psyker and makes a great Cheap HQ in a pinch

>(after this I flip passed at 8-10 pages realizing there is more than bikes and Termis in my book)

Deathwing Terminator - 5 - They are cool but I almost feel like my bikes are more durable

Deathwing Command Squad - 6 - It is the above with better toys, they get more work done but I am still up in the air if they get there points back)

Deathwing Knight - 6 for 35 more points than Termis they all get Storm Shields and cool maces.

Ravenwing Command Squad - 8

>Skip over a bunch of green stuff

Ravenwing Bike Squad - 6 - Sure they are Combat Squad bikes that can fulfill grav spam but I feel they are a bit more expensive then they have to be. Even 10-15 points would be great.

Ravenwing Attack Bike Squad - 7 - Ever since I started bringing DW and fit in the melta attack formation I really like my attack bike and I think it is adorable.

Ravenwing Land Speeders - 5 - these are just land speeders to me. Even though I have six they dn't seem amazing to me. Of course in the above mentioned formation they are good but they are balanced by their squishyness

Ravenwing Dark Shroud - 9 - Really love everything about this unit/model. Cheap and effiecient

>>44897396
Cool thanks, I get really confused with how formations affect things.

>>44897352
Yeah Wyches are pretty bad but I've only spent 240 points on them which is ok as a delivery mechanism for the beststicks.

I think Succusbus' and Lelith can be pretty good if they survive long enough for Power from Pain to kick in - Lelith is pretty overpriced but in a challenge I think she'd be more cost effective than a Succubus.

I'm hoping that with MSU I can take on some more competitive lists just by always having something on standby to throw a wrench into their plans.

I have 13 units overall which is a pretty big amount.

Reavers can do a lot of damage for their price and I'm hoping they can tie up some shooty units that would otherwise wreck my face.

The main thing I'm worried about is being able to pop transports but I'm hoping that if my opponent stays cloistered up in their transport i'll be able to outmanoeuvre them

>>44897615
>Int Chap - wish I could select the Ravenwing OR Deathwing rule for them or something.
While it's not the same as getting the ravenwing special rule, they did issue a FAQ allowing you to take a character on a bike for the ravenwing strike force rather than sammael.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Dark_Angels_v1.0_Dec15.pdf
Just in case you'd missed it.