When was the last time your players went full fucking retard?

>>44523899
Sounds like one convincing goblin.
You should be proud you role-played such a smooth talking NPC.

>>44523899
Be brutally honest with us:
Did your players seem to believe honestly nothing bad was going to happen?
Or were they like "yeah sure, whatever" before returning to their smartphones?

>>44523899
Sounds believable. A lot of players seem to think that the success of their characters is guaranteed either by what's on the character sheet - or failing that, by the GM.

What did your group say when their characters were killed and eaten?

When they started (and failed) to make character sheets.

When there was a pit they needed to get down and I realized none of hem bought rope.

WHO FORGETS TO BUY FUCKING ROPE?

>>44524251
Do you have rope nearby right now, Anon?

Exactly

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>>44523899
>GMing Rogue Trader.
>Crew reaches a rogue Tau colony.
>Locals see an opportunity in their faster mode of transportation and offer them a job to transfer miners and equipment to a neighboring star system.
>First thing the Seneschal says in negotiation: "We want ninety percent of the profits!"
>...
>What?
>"My first demand is 90% of the profits."
>Why?
>"That's how you negotiate."
>Yeah, with used car salesmen. This is an interstellar power. They have probably gone through the whole 'beads for land' thing at some point in their history. They're not going to go with such a blatant insult.
>"Yeah, but they need us."
>They don't, though. You're just an opportunity.
>"Well, I stick with it."
>All right.
>Tau: "We refuse."
>Seneschal: "Well, hey, if you refuse, we could go right over to your loyal friends in the Tau Empire and tell them all your weaknesses."
>...

I should've had them all seized and and their ship impounded for that, but I was new to GMing and didn't want to get the story too off-track. In retrospect, it would've made for a more interesting story, but oh well.

>>44523899
Capturing PCs is usually impossible and requires fiat. And they just agreed to it. Are you a visitor from Bizzaro world?

>>44524476
Are you an adventurer anon?

Thought so...

>>44524251
At least 5E now issues players with rope by default.

>>44524251
>>44524476
>>44524755
>>44524993
I'm not even an adventurer and I have rope within easy reach at home and in the car.

I thought it was just a smart thing to have around?

>>44525063
>rapist detected

>>44525083
Sonofabitch. I should've seen that coming.

>>44525157
>>44525083


Nah, rapists use zipties and duct tape.

>>44525231
Not the rescue I was expecting but I'll take it.

I put my players near a very intelligent hill giant. He started at 9int (which in giant terms is quite a lot), and got his hands on a +4 headband and put his lvl 4 stat advancement into int (he was a level 4 fighter)

They first met him in the woods, a hill giant in full plate, roasting an bear over a fire. They tried to talk to him. He told them he had a long day marching and had no patience for small folk bothering him, and to leave him be to his business. The party paladin detected evil, and it turns out that the Hill Giant was indeed evil. He wasn't doing anything evil, just making dinner, but he was an evil person. The party discussed not 100 feet from his camp that they should kill him. The giant heard and was like "fuck these humans". After getting his gear back on he charged out of the trees bearing down on one of them. He killed the caster first and took a round to full attack someone else and wound them, and then charged back off into the woods. The players put up a pursuit (stuffing the caster's body into a bag of holding), and got ambushed by the hill giant in a boxed off crevice. The giant TPK'd the party.

In the giant's mind he gave them the opportunity not to put of a pursuit, they did anyway.

My players were fucking pissed. I wanted the giant to be a reoccurring character but they couldn't just leave him alone.

>>44524476
>>44525063
>>44525260
I really, really want to know why you are arguing now. What was the point of your first post?

It seemed as if you were trying to convince >>44524251 that having rope nearby is not common, just for your information.

>>44525272

fucking DnD. Detect evil is the bane of good rp.

>>44525293
>Bad paladins are the bane of good rp
Corrected that for you

>>44525293
It was not the detect evil that killed them though. It was their own stupidity.

>>44525286
Not arguing, just having a few giggles. I was agreeing with him, given that even myself, not an adventurer, has rope nearby.

I'm not the same anon as this guy >>44524476

>>44525272
Stupidity begets stupidity. They saw how easily their companion got killed and yet they still wanted to go after him?

Well, they've only got themselves to blame.

>>44525083
Hey, who says sex + rope = rape?

>>44525454
I agree! It could also be used for sexy bondage.

>>44525437
Admittedly it was from a great sword crit.

However they knew something was odd because it was a giant with full plate.

>>44525468
Sounds like your group needs to play some tactical vidyagames.

I suggest Fire emblem, FFTA and Tactics Ogre. They might learn a thing or two about approaching an enemy carefully, better prepared.

Because they seem to be idiots.

>>44524476
Yes.
In fact I've got two diameters of dockline, a hundred feet of paracord, a shitload of twine, and about thirty feet of venetian blind cord in the room with me at this very moment.
>tfw posting from the boat

>>44525338
it was a part that made them aggresive. If they hadn't have DE, they'd be more eager to carefully obeserve and deduct, instead of "HE'S EVIL, MY SPELLS TOLD ME, KILL TIME", don't you think, anon?

>>44525780
No, I don't think so.

The hill giant didn't become evil because they used DE, but because they started to talk amongst themselves about how to kill him within earshot, like the retards they are.

>>44525846
I do not deny utter idiocy of players. I just point out the fact that DE is to paladin's job what "i roll diplomacy" is to conversation with NPC.

>>44525272
You just had a DMPC kill the party for no reason because you are a bad DM. The players can only deal with what is in front of them and you gave them a monster to fight. Then you got mad and punished them for wanting to kill him.

>>44525846
The hill giant was evil before the DE, but he didn't want to deal with humans who weren't worth his time at the moment because food. Once he heard them actually planning to murder him right next to him, he made the reasonable move (like any guy would) to fuck them up.

Anyways, I feel like even if the DE hadn't been used and they figured out he was evil another way, they would have still been idiots and tried to kill him.

>>44525917
In this case, DE was a step for the players to their doom.

But from here on saying that DE is the cause of all problems, it's like saying that money is the root of all evil. DE is just a tool, like a knife. In the wrong hands, it becomes a weapon: retards kill themselves with it.

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>>44525931
>DMPC

>>44525454
My grandmother.

>>44525917
Not really, in the latter case it does the job for you, in the former case it's not doing your job, since contrary to what /tg/ will tell you, evil=/=kill on sight in dnd

>>44525931
Did you actually read what he said? The players had their characters talk about killing someone in earshot of that person, not to mention that's not any definition of DMPC I've heard of. I think it might have been unreasonable to have the giant then hunt down the party he'd seen off handily, but it wasn't unjustified.

>>44525931
Nigga, the hill giant would have left them alone if they had simply walked away. If a couple of guys not ten feet away from you are loudly planning to kill you, are you saying that you wouldn't A. fuck them up or B. gotten help to stop those fucks? The hill giant knew he could drive them off and did what a evil dude who doesn't care for little people would do, kill idiot little people who plan to kill him.

>>44525931
Do you wipe your players ass as well?
>not letting your players feel the full effects of their dumb actions.

>>44525931
Unlogic.

>>44525988
That is a "bad" to most of tg.
They don't like consequences of any type.

>>44525961
Well, that's only because you've clearly neglected to use the ball gag.

>>44525468
How many fucking turns does it take for a giant to equip plate armor?

How did he manage to do it when as you say, the PCs were 100 feet away?

>>44526034
He was roasting the bear while wearing it, anon.

>>44526053
Then why did you add 'After getting his gear back on he charged out of the trees '

>>44525272
>>44525959
>>44525967
>>44525974
>>44525988

Giving the giant class levels and deciding he was going to be a recurring character is essentially admitting you want to have him show up in your story as your character that you get to play as while being the DM. If he was just an NPC, he'd have arbitrary stats and his purpose in the story would be better defined than just level 4 fighter giant.

They probably just started talking out of character about what they wanted to do, and you as a bad DM decided that their characters were speaking the same words without having gone through the precaution of ensuring the giants couldn't hear them. By assuming unreasonable actions on the part of the players, you basically just punished your real-life friends for some unintended behavior.

>>44524476
yes

fuck i have something that could qualify as a 10 foot pole around here somewhere but thats not as normal as fucking rope who doesn't have rope

and when i go out i might not bring big climbing rope but i will always take some thin twine or something just in case i need to tie something up

>>44526068
Presumably that meant he grabbed his pack off the ground and threw it over his shoulder, or something similar.

>>44526068
I'm the guy who posted it. He was wearing everything except his helmet and boots.

>>44526068
Perhaps he put on his helm and strapped his shield, before getting the sword?

>>44526091
>>44526092
>>44526094
Those aren't instant actions.

>>44526088
>wanting an NPC to appear in the campaign multiple times makes him a DMPC
>NPC having class levels makes them a DMPC

What?

>>44526088
The definition of a DMPC is a PC that goes with the group and steals the spotlight.

That giant would not have been going about with the party.

>>44525468
>>44525272
Conversant giant wearing full plate.
All of my nope.
The initial attack was stupid.
Chasing him after the spell caster was dead was just retarded.
Intelligent giants can be as dangerous as a flying dragon.

>>44525931
Feeble attempt. Try harder next time.

>>44526068
One, I'm not the anon who wrote the story, two, fuck, maybe he had a shield or the guy who wrote it made a mistake and added that part by accident. Might have been what counts for adventuring gear for a hill giant.

Plus, given that those fuckers 'forgot' about the hill giant cooking up a hearty meal to plan his murder a hundred feet away, I doubt they noticed when that fucker got to work planning their murders in return.

>inserted lilarcor sidequest
>player assume detached hand is from vecna
>cuts his own hand off in vain
>fastfoward 3 months
>different group, but same idiot player from before
>forgot I played lilarcor's sidequest with him an use it again
>he cuts his hand once more

>>44525931
sometimes you face an enemy you cant beat and you have to run away you can come back and kill it later or get somebody more experienced to help out.

>>44526113
Doesn't take long to put on a helmet a shield and a sword.

>>44526139
Long enough for someone to notice

How the fuck does a giant get the jump on anyone?

>>44525931
>>44526088
what the fuck, you must be trolling. you're saying every single reccuring character that has advanced stats on the offset chance they'll be involved in proper combat or encounters is a DMPC?

is that honestly what you're saying? is the monster manual one big book of DMPCs, and are DMs that include monsters with defined stats and backstories just rp-hungry unhappy DMs?

>>44526154
By hunting stupid people who plan murder in broad daylight and in front of the target.

>>44526011
She can't scream my name if the gag is used.

>>44526175
Doesn't matter how stupid the players are, they'd still need to roll perception

>>44523899
>Players get hired by duchess to kill bandits in a local mine
>All players except the bard walks around town looking for clues/tips/anything that might help them clearing the mine
>The bard walks to the nearest clothing shop and threatens to kill the shopkeeper
>Guards are called and the duchess confronts him about this and asks why he did it
>He tells her that he wants to be thrown in jail
>He get's thrown in jail
>He flees jail with the help of the other players and is now on his way to the bandit infested mine
>He did all this so that he would blend in with the bandits and now

A third of the party ended up in jail.

>>44526200
Could have asked the duchess to make fake wanted posters instead

>>44526088
As the guy who posted it. What? Planning an NPC and statting him makes him a DMPC? What?

>>44526113
Yes, putting on his helmet and boots was a full round action. Lashing his shield to his arm was a full round action. Grabbing his pack was a standard action. He did this while making a stealth check and managed to beat the player's passive perceptions because we didn't have anyone wisdom based in the party (and one guy who invested in perception, our gunslinger).

>>44526235
Fair enough then, they deserved it

Retarded is the wrong word.

The players were given the order to kill a witch. I thought they would investigate. I thought they would be looking for more information. Nope.

At the end they fought without ranged weapons against a flying (Broom) spellcaster.

>>44526191
It's the responsibility of the DM to inform them to make a perception check at every opportunity. In fact, depending on how elaborate the murder plan was, I'd say they'd be too engrossed in the planning to realize that the noises of hill giant were the dude putting on armor instead of him just eating bear.

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>>44525272
> Evil and intelligent Hill Giant in full plate
> Not even 100 feet away
Okay. So why were they 100 feet away? Did they MOVE AWAY FROM HIM TO DISCUSS WHAT TO DO?!
> He overhears them
Oh okay so your party decided they didn't like this character you made (legitimately) IC
> No. No. He's supposed to be a character that shows up again.
That's nice. They don't know that
You don't tell them that (obviously)
But you sound butthurt that you put effort into this damn thing and they're not giving it the time of day.
Which is their choice.
So you make it hear them even though it probably shouldn't considering it sounds like they moved away from him and made it kill them for not following your one and only plan?
> This is railroading AND 'sperging on your party for not doing what you wanted.

>>44525944
Yeah, I agree, it was a step. But large, and one leading them a path that could (only could, I think they'd still fuck their own shit, like >>44525938 said) make the outcome entierly different. I don't know, I just feel like DE is a nonfun shortcut.
>>44525967
nah, what i meant ny paladin's job is figuring out who is evil. Whole inquisitor/divine detective aspect of playing a paladin, which I find the most apealing, is completely wiped out with one little spell. In my book, sneaky DE is inferior to entire plot of deciding if NPC is evil or not. Especially if you don't know after smiting time, too.

>>44526260
Fuck, sorry, I'm meant to put "not the responsibility". Sorry,

>>44526282
That's not really their job though, just a thing they do. That said, I accept your point, though detect evil is by no means an auto-win button for that goal. In Pathfinder at least creatures below a certain level don't have an evil aura unless they're evil outsiders/clerics, spellcasters have Undetectable Alignment and any creature can have a Ring of Mind Shielding

>>44526068
>>44526034
>How did he manage to do it when as you say, the PCs were 100 feet away?
They seemed to be busy discussing how to kill him, while within earshot.

>>44526088
>They probably just started talking out of character about what they wanted to do
So, the players would be discussing it, but the characters would instantly understand the plan and psychically communicate it?
If the players intended to communicate without the giant hearing, all they needed to do was say something and the DM would have understood they intended.
Clearly they did not do that.

>>44526173

The PCs in this game were aimless murderhobos and the DM was probably just running an aimless murderhobo game, or else there's no point in having a boring encounter with a camping giant who just tells the PCs to go away. Of course they want to then try to kill him because players in real life were becoming bored and fidgety and wanted something to happen.

Giving this giant some mechanical exlination of why he is so smart is pointless. If he's smart, just say that he is smart, no need to invent some mary sue backstory finding a +4 int headband and about how he gained 4 levels of fighter class and decided to spend his stat gain in intelligence like some sort of player trying to optimize his build. This is how I know the DM placed inordinate importance on this npc giant and was planning on self-inserting with the party.

>>44526266
You are literally bitching at the DM for being consistent and making NPCs act in ways that make logical sense.

>>44526088
>Giving the giant class levels and deciding he was going to be a recurring character is essentially admitting you want to have him show up in your story as your character that you get to play as while being the DM
Holy fuck that projection, Batman. Or it just means he's supposed to be a recurring villain.

The whole point of a DMPC is that they travel WITH the party; they don't tell the party to fuck off.

>If he was just an NPC, he'd have arbitrary stats and his purpose in the story would be better defined than just level 4 fighter giant.
>all NPCs are either DMPCs or nameless combat fodder, no exceptions

>They probably just started talking out of character about what they wanted to do, and you as a bad DM decided that their characters were speaking the same words without having gone through the precaution of ensuring the giants couldn't hear them.
"Hey guys, what should we do" is never something you get to talk about out of character, because then it just turns into a retarded mashup of a cosmic pause button with telepathy that players will abuse to jam an hour of IRL debate into a minute of in-game time, then claim that it's impossible for anyone to have eavesdroped on them because their characters never said anything.

Imagine the PCs are meeting with a mob boss, when PC #1 says
>"Hey, why haven't we just killed this guy yet?"

Would the logical response to that be he same as if he'd said
>I turn to PC#2 and whisper "Why haven't we just killed this guy yet?"

>>44526266
>But you sound butthurt that you put effort into this damn thing and they're not giving it the time of day.
It wasn't that they weren't giving him the time of day, they were discussing how to kill him. What was he supposed to do, not defend himself?

>So you make it hear them even though it probably shouldn't considering it sounds like they moved away from him and made it kill them for not following your one and only plan?
It killed them because they pursued after he took one of them out. I even asked them were they were going to discuss it and measured the distance to get the perception DC for the giant.

He gave them multiple chances. First he just wanted to have dinner and was planning on IGNORING the PCs that night, and they decided they wanted to kill him. Second, after he killed one of the PCs they decided to chase him into the woods.

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>>44526282
See, now you're talking.

Now you understand that it's only your opinion and not a fact: there can be players who use DE well enough. I have no such examples because I don't play D&D but maybe one day, if you're lucky, you'll be able to see it with your own eyes.

>>44526266
>pic related
You must be one of the retarded players

>>44526287
It IS the responsibility of the DM to inform their players when a perception check is needed, because otherwise their characters are perpetually unaware of anything that happens around them. They are functionally blind deaf and dumb without the DM and springing that bullshit on them is like running a surprise round because '30 goblins just walked into the room and you didn't roll perception'.

>>44526328
100 feet is like 30 meters. They must have been pretty loud for him to hear them.

>>44526178
Fair enough.

>>44526348
>what is passive perception

>>44526331
Wow, this is a lot of projecting.

>Giving this giant some mechanical exlination of why he is so smart is pointless. If he's smart, just say that he is smart, no need to invent some mary sue backstory finding a +4 int headband and about how he gained 4 levels of fighter class and decided to spend his stat gain in intelligence like some sort of player trying to optimize his build. This is how I know the DM placed inordinate importance on this npc giant and was planning on self-inserting with the party.
So you're mad that the NPC is statted? What? Seriously? Are you trolling?

>>44526363
Does your DM get you to just constantly roll dice when he isn't talking?

Or does he just roll dice behind his screen? Seems fairly pointless for someone that sets the DCs

>>44526348
>100 feet is like 30 meters. They must have been pretty loud for him to hear them.
It's a DC 10 perception check to hear details of a conversation at 100ft.

>>44526331
I can taste this stupidity, with you throwing around all these assumptions.

>>44526393
Does everybody have superhearing? If people are being quiet, it's hard to hear them from the other side of a room.

>>44525466

I prefer cuffs since it's a bit easier but rope can get pretty inventive and more restrictive. Shame I forgot all my boyscout knots save for the square knot.

>>44526331
>Finding a relatively common item in setting and being more trained in combat than other giants
>Mary Sue
Dude, what the fuck are you on about now?

>>44526331
Why are you against NPCs have stats and defined stories?

Also holy shit, having a +4 int headband makes you a mary sue now? A level 4 hill giant is a pretty big character, that's perfectly within his WBL. He was 9int before, he may have pursued the fucking headband.

>>44526388
You can't be this stupid.
>A PC has the listen skill +5
>passive listen skill is 10+5=15
>GM rolls for enemy stealth
>roll is 14+5 for stealth
>the passive perception DC is beaten by the enemy

Capisce?

>players are put on a boat after being summoned by paladin's (henceforth referred to as Borf) father for a feast
>traveling to glorious island of vikings versus english noblemen
>boat is a huge battle barge, manned by 350 elite soldiers
>behind the boat is another boat, that one formed like a cube. literally filled to the brim with slaves
>attached to the mothership by a single rope
>entire trip was scheduled to take 35 days, each day being a separate RP event, some days mundane and passive RPed, some days pretty intense
>trip almost over
>players fought the leviathan, dealt with ration issues, solved a mutiny and avoided sinking after being attacked by pirates
>level 4 female half-elf archer gets into an argument with one of the elite soldiers after he makes a passing comment about red hair
>chick playing elf (henceforth referred to as cunt) has red hair in game and real life, not tumblrina red but literally straight up irish ginger
>PC tries to fight this elite soldier
>gets utterly decimated
>Borf rules that she be put on the ship with the slaves to prevent more shittery
>this is when the clusterfuck truly began
>Cunt starts trying to start a slave uprising, which succeeds
>the slaves start trying to break out, and under her PC magical leadership they manage to break open the bars near the rope
>boat becomes a fucking slave mosh pit
>party bard gets tired of this shit, takes the barbarian and just lets loose the life boat, rowing the last nautical miles to the isle
>Borf gets tired of Cunt's shit, slays the bitch out of nowhere
>Cunt and Borf fuck in real life but shits unstable, and this sparks the fuckery
>Cunt gets hyper upset over Borf killing her PC
>at this point the bard and barbarian are packing their shit up, leave the room and go eat pizza
>they start arguing
>literally going over every flaw in their relationship
>they break up because of a dead PC
>this was 1 month ago
>group hasn't even talked about D&D since

why even live

>>44526404
They were probably not being quiet.

Or the giant had skilled his perception a bit more and beaten the DC to overhear them.

>>44526437
And what was their stat for eyesight?

A giant simply cannot hide.

>>44526404
It's pathfinder rules, they're dumb. For reference the giant had invested in perception, and had a positive wisdom modifier (+1). This resulted in a grand total of +12 to perception. He rolled a 14. 26 was good enough to hear.

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>>44526339
Multiple choices? You said it refused to interact with them.
> It's evil
> It won't talk to us or do anything else
> Okay? I guess we totally ignore and walk away from this thing you deliberately put in our path? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU PUT IT IN OUR PATH?!
So the only choice YOU GAVE THEM AND WANTED THEM TO TAKE WAS TO WALK AWAY.
THEY DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT SO YOU PUNISHED THEM.

>>44526409
You can still learn knots from the internet.

>>44526154
>Long enough for someone to notice

If they're stupid enough to discuss plans to kill someone 100 feet away from the, they're stupid enough to ignore that person quietly preparing for a fight.

>>44526331
>If he's smart, just say that he is smart
No, THAT is what makes it a fucking mary-sue. Giants are supposed to be naturally stupid. The party finds one that isn't and would ask "Wait, why is this thing talking?" Blowing it off with "He's just smart" is contradicting the established rules and stats for the sake of making the NPC stand out, while "He was dumb, then he lucked out and found an INT-boosting item" works within the rules.

It also opens up the possibility of stealing the item from the giant to cripple his newfound intelligence, which would make fighting him much easier.

>or else there's no point in having a boring encounter with a camping giant who just tells the PCs to go away
Or that they just missed the point. That scene is a textbook setup for a character that becomes relevant later.
Maybe in the next town they find a shop has been robbed by someone who'd torn out the entire storefront, or someone had been murdered by what looks like an entire tree to the head, or any number of other things that would point towards an asshole giant being the culprit.

>>44526479
The guy said out of the trees and said he asked the PCs where they were discussing it. Apparently the PCs can't see through trees.

>>44526479
Not very good apparently. They probably were also distracted, since they were talking to one another.

As >>44526235 already cleared up.

>>44524670
But anon, that's rogue trading done right. You rob unfortunate people of almost everything they have and if they don't comply, you melta bomb them or unleash shit at them and come up with a bullshit excuse when the inquisition pops over to chat about consorting with xenos/chaos/living machines.

>>44526088
You're retarded and you should kill yourself.

>>44526492
Yes, because people shouldn't be punished when someone stronger than them overhears their plan to murder them.

>>44526429
Were the PCs supposed to kill him and find the headband as loot? Were the PCs supposed to ask the giant about his cool headband and he brags about it and tells this his fictional backstory?

Obviously not, the DM has the giant tell the PCs to fuck off, squandering an chance for the PCs to care about this character or further interact with him. So the PCs do the next best thing, which is to kill him. You the DM feel the need to protect your innocent snowflake giant self-insert, so he gets to jump and kill the PC in order for you to punish your friends for being uninterested in your made up giant. You derailed your own game through incompetence and wanted to blame the players.

>>44526548
Who is more important? Your gaming group or a fictional giant?

>>44526492
He never said they had to fight the giant. The GM put them near it, they could have spoken, and seen that while evil, the giant wasn't going to bother them if they left him alone. They could have simply walked a few feet to the left and gone around the giant, not having to fight him.

>>44526492
>> Okay? I guess we totally ignore and walk away from this thing you deliberately put in our path? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU PUT IT IN OUR PATH?!

Not that guy, but did it ever occur to you that things could exist in the game world that don't revolve around your precious little snowflake?

>>44526479
He doesn't need to hide. They already knew he was there, they simply chose to not to pay attention to him in favor of focusing on their conversation.

>>44526564

> So the PCs do the next best thing, which is to kill him
>next best thing
>kill him

Sociopath pls go and stay go

>>44526492
>WHY IS IT THERE IF IT'S NOT FOR MY CHARACTER
>MY CHARACTER IS THE CENTER OF THIS STORY RIGHT

that lingering urge to take your life you've had for the last years is imbued with wisdom. do it, faggot.

>>44526566
What's important is having consequences that make sense and fit the game world. If that means the gaming group is going to whelp a party or two while they learn that this isn't fucking Diablo and they can't plan out the demise of intelligent creatures withing earshot of said creatures without them hearing and reacting, so be it.

>>44526503
Yeah, but I'm more of a practice learner than someone who learns by reading or watching. I should just find a cheap store mannequin and practice my knotwork on that, though that would both sound AND look incredibly creepy.

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>>44526564
> So the PCs do the next best thing, which is to kill him.
Literal definition of murder hobos.

So the only two kinds of interactions are talk or murder?

>>44526587
>giant stands up from a seated position
>nobody thinks this is strange
>starts picking up his weapons
>nobody thinks this is strange
>begins moving towards the party
>nobody thinks this is strange

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>>44526492
Walking away is something perfectly acceptable.

But you are so thick, it's probably never going to get into your skull, is it?

>>44526344
unrustle a little there. I never stated a fact, all of the time it was just my opinion on using DE in that situation and on DE in general. So don't "now you understand" me. Still i do not understand how DE could be used well, but I am thankful for good wishes. void though, since i tend to avoid DnD

>>44526564
Wait wait, so if a guy doesn't want to talk to you, you murder him? Fucking what?

The giant even left in order to give them a fucking second chance to leave well enough alone. The PCs pursued.

>>44526566
What's important is for the players to have fucking consequences for their actions and not be hand held the entire fucking time.

>>44526566
>actions should never have consequences I don't like!!!!!!!

>>44526564
>innocent snowflake giant self-insert

You're allowed to make a point without having to throw about 5 buzzwords around every post. The giant was none of those things except a giant.

>>44526492
I'm confused how you seem to think that's not perfectly reasonable.

Do you also think that you're always supposed to fight the BBEG as soon as you see them? Does the idea of self-preservation just not exist for your characters? Are you locked in the metagame assumption that the only fights you can get into are ones you can win?

>>44526564
Nigga, they planned to kill him, that's interest in him being just experience and loot at least. Again, are you saying that the giant shouldn't have fucked them for planning to kill him? If a person plans to kill you, it's not unreasonable to react to prevent such a plan from succeeding.

Also, that's just the first encounter, man. The giant is tired and hungry, of course he doesn't want to put up with bullshit right that second. If you see him later, either ignore him if he ain't hostile, interact with him if you want, or fight/run if he attempts to attack you.

>>44526611
Again, trees. They would have heard noise, not seen him.

>>44526564
>If it's not a quest giver or a shopkeeper, It's someone/thing that I have to kill!
Fuck off butthurt paladin

>>44526602
It can be your dirty little secret, anon!

>>44526404
could have been a nice cold night sounds travels very far then.

>>44526564
>I wanna murderhobos my way across the realms!!
>every atom in said realm is only there for meeeee!

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>>44526474
wow.

>>44526627
> I never stated a fact

>Detect evil is the bane of good rp.
Your words had me infer wrong then.

>void though, since i tend to avoid DnD
Then I don't understand why you would bring this up in the first place.

>>44526492
I don't know about you, but if the setting is in the least organic, things characters can appear and events can happen without being completely centered around player characters.

>>44526474
>why even live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4TC1xMyZDI#t=1m39s

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>>44524251
Do you even BDSM faggot?

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>>44526564
the autism is palpable

>>44526645
Monsters should line up in an orderly fashion and stand there while I kill them and loot treasure. Anything else, ANYTHING else, and the DM is a dickheadnofundmpcfaggot.

Ok, guy who posted about the giant. Does anyone want to know the rest of his story and his intended purpose in the narrative?

>>44525780
Still should kill him anyways for being a giant.

>>44526492
You sound like a horrible player that gives your DM too much stress.
In the interest of creating an interesting setting and ensemble of NPCs to draw from, not every NPC you run into has to escalate quickly to an encounter.
> WHY THE FUCK DID YOU PUT IT IN OUR PATH?!
MAYBE TO BUILD UPON THE GIANT'S EXISTANCE LATER????????
You are clearly the only murderhobo player here.

>>44526747
>what are storm giants
>what are good aligned giants

Hey guys, I spotted another murderhobo!

>>44526611
>the giant stands and picks up his things
Seen out of the corner of the eye, the natural assumption would be that he stood up to get something out of his pack, presumably seasoning or cookware for the meal he was in the middle of cooking.

>the giant begins moving towards the party
That's called the surprise round, motherfuckers, let's see how much time a giant running ten strides takes. Hint: not much.
Granted,they should have gotten a perception check there specifically for noticing the half-ton of meat and steel rushing towards their faces, which I charitably assume the DM rolled. If not, that was a duck move.

>>44524476
I have about 300 feet in various lengths spread about my house. Most of it is in my bedroom.

>>44526746
Yes. Please tell.

>>44526747
Agreed.
So we fall back, set an ambush. You know, plan our attack. Since its a giant, we know it hits hard. So we'll soften it up with ranged/spells, before we close to melee.

>>44526746
Please do
It's unlikely but further evidence may either shut up the murderhobo or give us reason to criticize you

>>44524476
what is paracord

>>44526746
I do.

>>44526409
The rope is for tying the cuffs to. Much faster to string my wife up for display in the living room that way than to tie her into a big mess of rope.

>>44524476

I do, but I'm REALLY into BDSM.

>>44526746
Yes but only because Giant was a bro, it's not going to shut up the murderhobo retard or make him realise that killing everything you come across that doesn't instantly reward the PCs is a bad idea.

Giving the PCs more credit than they really deserve, not trying to kill the giant would have been a huge failure as heroes.

Giants are generally maneaters or worse, they know for a fact that this particular giant is evil heavily armed and capable of casually killing bears. If they don't take this thing out now every subsequent burned village is 100% their faults. Not to mention that they have an obligation to avenge their own fallen.

They might have been a but boneheaded in the planning stage but this monster needed to go down hard.

>>44526746
Yeah, why not?

>>44526762
>ever taking your eye off a giant
Not the kind of thing anyone with functioning survival instincts would do.

Would you just turn your back on a wolf? Would you leave your wallet on the table with an [ethnic slur] in the room?

>>44526783
It was getting late when they found the giant and I was planning for them to be camping soon (unless they decided to trudge through the night, no idea why they would). It would have rained that night and the next morning they would see the giant's footprints clearly in the road.

When they get to the next town (a small community with newly reinforced walls walls around the town center because a debacle with a mercenary company turned bandit) they would see the giant being heckled out front. The captain of the guard (had her planned out too, former military turned head of a noble house's house guard) and him would be having a shouting match about him being let in. The PC would have been able to come to either's aid, the giant just wanted to resupply. This is where they would get a chance to actually interact with him if they decided to help him. The guard captain would have agreed to let him in with a guard escort.

The PCs and the giant were traveling in the same direction, both towards the capital.

Basically the giant is the de facto chieftain of the tribe, the actual one old and decrepit. What the tribe does is follows wars, they're essentially a nomadic mercenary company. The giant, because he is the most intelligent, negotiated contracts (had ranks in Profession (barrister)) while the tribe sits themselves down and waits for him to come back. He was heading towards the capital to look for a contract after the last campaign went sour.

The PCs and him would have chances to interact when they got to the capital possibly, or another chance encounter on the road (had one more planned, in addition some more NPCs including an unfortunately overburden merchant, an astronomer, and some other shit).

Say your're playing and the dm just says "Alright, there's a giant near by, what do you do?" and that's all there is to the scene is not good for a game. He tells them to fuck off and there being nothing else in that scene, they think they must be missing something, so they look at their other options.

But if there was other things in the scene, like a road nearby, a village down the way, or whatever the fuck so they don't think they're missing something when they hit a dead end, then he's dming right. The players think there is something to do. If the answer to the scene is 'don't do anything' then he's not doing his job.

It'd be like telling the players "as you travel, you see in the distance, the town with it's walls and gates. What do you do?" The players are just going to look at each other like there should be something else going on.

>>44526711
>Detect evil is the bane of good rp.
Well, consequence of anoning - these weren't my words, >>44525780 was my entree. But you could saw it like that, and you'd have a point then. I just added my two dimes to a topic.
>>44526747
[meme]depends on a setting[/meme], but you're pretty much right though.

>>44526866
>>44526897
>still assuming something they don't know

>>44526876
To half of tg, wolves are just fluffy dogs. Completely tame.
Saw a thread a couple days ago. Tg argued that its normal for wolves to roam city streets in fantasy d&d. Because, druids.

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>>44526882
>The giant, because he is the most intelligent, negotiated contracts (had ranks in Profession (barrister))
>the giant is a lawyer too now

>>44526876
>Not the kind of thing anyone with functioning survival instincts would do.
Now you're starting to get why the players deserved to get themselves killed here.

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>>44525931
>>44526088
>>44526266
>>44526331
>>44526564
>>44526492
Not sure if this is one or two anons, but why are you arguing this?
I am honestly asking the question.
Why?
It was an NPC with power, intelligence, and gear.
This was fine.
The PCs decided to kill him and discussed it within earshot.
This was stupid.
After being attacked, failing to do significant damage, losing a spellcaster, and being given an opportunity to end the encounter, they pursued an intelligent enemy into an ambush.
This was more stupid.

>>44526882
Neat idea.

>>44526948
I still have his stats lying around. He had Linguistics, Intimidate, Profession (Barrister), Perception, and Sense Motive

>>44526825

Something I've thought about, yes. A harness or cuffs would really speed up that process, giving you every tie-on point needed without a complicated knotwork process to start off with.

Who says you have to do everything the hard way?

>>44526964
>If only you could get +4 int headbands irl

>>44526959
Planning to kill something does not mean you immediately forget it is dangerous.

Our ancestors planned to kill saber toothed tigers and mammoths and bears the size of houses. That doesn't mean they were not afraid of them.

The fact the players started a discussion indicates that they intend to use caution and attack with an actual plan.

Who stipulated the distance they were away when they started the conversation? Them or you? Did you at any point say 'Are you sure you want to do this? He's only 30 metres away?'?

>>44523899

>Party runs across some rabbits
>Druid can communicate with them
>Asks where a certain McGuffin, to do with their current quest, happens to be
>Rabbits ask for some carrots.
>Party turns out of the forest, treks back to the closest town, buys a bag of carrots, and returns to the rabbits with them.
>Rabbits don't know where it is, and try to get into the party's packs to see if they have more food.


I'm not sure why they thought that literally some random rabbits in a glade would know anything useful, but once they got the idea in their heads, there was no getting it out of them.

>>44526945
What don't they know?

>Giants are usually evil, this particular giant pinged detect evil and refused to talk.
>Giants are tough, this one was wearing full plate and eating a bear.

It's not exactly a huge leap to infer that this is not a creature that you want wandering around the countryside.

>>44524476
>there are people on /tg/ that don't have a large supply of bondage gear

>>44527052
>Who stipulated the distance they were away when they started the conversation? Them or you? Did you at any point say 'Are you sure you want to do this? He's only 30 metres away?'?

The guy has answered this like three times.

>>44527092
Please tell me it took a day to go to the town and another to go back, and that you had the rabbits follow them after that.

>>44527120

I've got a small cache, basically just dipping my feet in before investing further, though I plan on investing further. Is that at least acceptable?

>>44523899

>Party runs across this dimensional exploration private club/mages society.
>Mage uses a homebrewed divination spell to determine (roughly) how powerful they are while the rest of the crew distracts them so they don't realize they're being spied upon.
>Spell returns that these guys are massively more powerful than the party.
>Brief huddle
>ATTACK!
>Get shitstomped.


It's almost like this was what your divination told you.

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>>44526882
I like it

>>44527139

It took a bit under 5 days total travel time. Didn't have the bunnies follow along, but I should have.

>>44527125
No he hasn't. I went back and checked. He said they were 100 feet away. It hasn't been specified whether they walked 100 feet away, or if they were that distance away already or if they just considered that a reasonable distance to talk without being overheard, in ignorance of the rules.

In any case it is the responsibility of the DM to fucking say something when the party is heading towards a TPK because they're forgetful or don't know the rules. It is your responsibility to remind people when the rules of the game do not match up to reality AKA DC10 (10!) for perfect hearing at 100 feet.

>>44526946
>Tg argued that its normal for wolves to roam city streets in fantasy d&d. Because, druids.

No, the fact that there is a wolf not trying to eat heavily armed murderhobos, is clearly following said murderhobos, and the murderhobos not killing said wolf is perfectly normal in fantasy DnD, because druids. Therefore, the city guard should let the wolf in because it's clearly tame, you autist.

>>44527244
Fuck, the 5 days travel was punishment enough then. Good work punishing stupid. :3

>>44527279
>waaàaaaaaaa!

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>>44527279
>Somebody 100 feet away from you yells loudly "but he's evil, let's kill him!"
>yfw the DM kills your spellcaster

>>44527165
and that's a whole new level of mental debility

>>44527306
Cool argument.

Of course it's reasonable for someone to hear a spoken (not shouted) conversation from 1/3 the length of a football pitch away

>>44527296
kek

See. A giant isn't unfriendly. And wolves are tame.

>tg logic

>>44527092
Holy shit, my players did the same fucking thing, the witch and the party spoke with animals and asked a bird about tips in a wizards tower it was caged in... the roleplaying must have taken 20 minutes before they realised that it was an Int one caged animal.

>>44527279
It's not perfect hearing, it's hear details. Regardless the giant also got a 26 for his perception check, that IS superhuman levels of hearing essentially.

And it's not the GM's responsibility to coddle the players. Because, you know what, the giant killed ONE of them and then left. He gave them a second chance. They decided to fucking pursue.

>"I escape from my pursuers into the burning warehouse so I can ambush them in the smoke!"
>"Uhh... dude, you do know that they don't actually need to take you in alive."
>"Yeah, I know, I can ambush them there."
>"... yeah, ok. You run into the warehouse, and while you're trying to find a good ambush spot, you hear the doors being slammed and barred."
>"Wait, what?"
>"They're laughing outside. They think you're an idiot."

There weren't other doors in the warehouse, and it was on fire from within since the actual wares were the thing that caught on fire. So he was really fucked and had to plead with the pursuers to be taken in alive.

They mostly agreed since it would have been a bitch to find something recognizable for proof of success otherwise.

>>44527345
On a city street with traffic? No.
In a wilderness setting? Yes.

>>44527345
If they got mixed up between feet and yards, then they could have expected to be a full football pitch away.

What's the DC for that anyway?

>>44524476
Yes, I climb. Like adventurers do.

>>44527346
I mean, the guy did say that at the next town the guards were refusing to let the giant in unless the player's intervened.

>>44527279
Even if they were out of earshot, the giant has Sense Motive, He would be able to sense that they were planning to kill him if he passed the check

>>44527345
In the woods on a clear night?

Yes, it would be easy to hear the conversation. Woods are fucking quiet.

>>44527379
It would be a DC 30.

>>44527345
Have you ever fucking been in a forest before? Like, far away from civilization? Sound carries pretty fucking well there and you don't need superhuman hearing to hear someone talking 100 feet away.

>>44526882
This is fucking mary sue garbage. Holy shit you just keep digging yourself a bigger hole. I'm glad your PCs died, maybe then they would realize they could stop playing with a butthurt DMPC using mary sue GM.

>>44525272
only problem with this is that in 5e, 'Detect Evil' cannot detect alignment, only the presence of 'undead, fiends, abominations etc'.

Honestly, your players attacked a 9-12ft tall man in full plate, and after he killed 1 of them instantly, they kept trying to fight him rather than taking the lesson.

The trick is to use him again in the next campaign.

>>44527279
>In any case it is the responsibility of the DM to fucking say something when the party is heading towards a TPK because they're forgetful or don't know the rules
I don't see why. They're roleplaying, so they're meant to be making decisions based on logic rather than what's most beneficial from a mechanical perspective.

>>44527461
why aren't all characters white human fighters, am i right?

>>44527494
Because by D&D logic, giants are entirely killable by normal people and attacking a provably evil monster (of a race known for its evilness and destructive nature) you encounter in the woods is not only morally defendable and commendable, but also beneficial through loot and experience.

If you're going to kick that logic down, you should at least provide them with the necessary pieces of information to actually reasonably formulate a decision. Such as "This hill giant seemed to fight with much more discipline and skill than they usually do, and from the brief exchange it's already clear you'd be outmatched."

Better yet, don't fucking put a DMPC landmine into a situation you frame as a standard wilderness encounter. The giant could have maybe shown itself to be special and significant in some way, signifying to the players that it is more than an encounter to be fought. Instead, it told them to fuck off because it's too special and snowflakey to bother with the party. This is only mildly less egregious than "THE BEGGAR WAS ACTUALLY A SHAPECHANGED DRAGON FOR NO REASON, YOU ALL DIE FOR INSULTING HIM!"

>>44527390
Why would guards do that?
That DM is being a jerk.
In a fantasy setting, its normal for giants to be in cities.

>>44527641
>dmpc
Er...wut?

>>44527641
Nah, you're just retarded.

>>44527650
>there's nothing your average burgher loves more than having enormous cannibalistic retards roaming the streets. because fantasy.

>>44527494
Not the same guy, but there is something to be said if, assuming the characters (not necessarily the players) are at least somewhat knowledgeable, the charactersame could reasonably expect the giant to kill them if they discuss plans to murder it within earshot. Just because the players aren't considering the full implications of their actions doesn't mean the characters aren't as well. It's pretty easy to forget minor details when you aren't actually in a forest with a dangerous giant nearby. For the GM not to remind the players in such a situation is to imply that the characters are astill stupid as the players. Granted, that could very well be the case, but if you don't WANT to have a TPK, it doesn't hurt to give your players helpful tips to avoid a TPK.

>>44527714
Learn to d&d

Sticking class levels on random NPCs is a total dick move.

Lets face it, the only reason DMs do that sort of shit is so they can surprise their party with a level 20 innkeeper

>>44527769
In many D&D settings, evil giants would never roam civilized cities freely. Since they're evil, terrible giants that will do terrible things if they get inside the city.

Learn to d&d

>>44527641
They knew he was different because he had full plate, and could speak in full coherent sentences.

>Better yet, don't fucking put a DMPC landmine into a situation you frame as a standard wilderness encounter.
It's a giant in full plate, it isn't a fucking mystery that the giant is dangerous. Your "lel dragon beggar" argument doesn't even apply here.

>>44524670

They're not the ones who aren't playing Rogue Trader right.

Rogue Traders aren't itinerant accountants. They're the Empire's space conquistadors.

>>44527789
Yea.
All NPCs and monsters should die quickly, with no resistance. Just stand there and be cut down you NPC fucks.
>quality gaming tg style

>>44526564
nothing wrong with having random interesting people on the path to the next destination that you never see again

in the end the players mistake was to get into a fight they couldent win and then instead of retreating when they got beaten back continuing moving they should have gone and got reinforcements from the local guard or something.

>>44527769
You need to learn to D&D, name an official setting where giants are just allowed in town.

>>44527789
Um... you realize that there are NPC stat blocks in some DMGs, and quite a few of them have PC class levels to begin with.

Hell, some monsters in the MMs/bestiaries have class levels.

Try again mate, your argument has nothing to stand on.

>>44527842
Eberron

>>44527832
>>All NPCs and monsters should die quickly, with no resistance. Just stand there and be cut down you NPC fucks.
Use something with a better stat block rather than the shitty deception that is a level 15 goblin

>>44527641
You sound like a retarded murderhobo.

>>44527749
To be blunt, if the players don't even bother to mention that they'll move out of earshot before talking about killing someone, I say they deserve whatever happens. Forgetting some small details is fine, but this is not a fucking small detail and just shows a severe lack of investment.

>>44527641
>Instead, it told them to fuck off because it's too special and snowflakey to bother with the party

Or because it was gonna show up later on and the DM didn't want it to be completely out of the blue. I agree it could have been handled better, but it was in no way 'snowflakey'

>>44527789
That pretty obviously wasn't a regular hill giant though. How many times have you seen hill giants in full plate and wearing headbands? The 'random npc' argument would only really make sense if they attacked a normal looking hill giant and the dm said 'right, the level 10 warblade initiates elder mountain hammer on you, you die', not 'the obviously combat-trained giant has fighter levels, the typical way the system represents combat training'

>>44527789
Have you never actually played any edition of D&D? The book fucking tells you to use humanoids as a base and add PC levels.

The players had every indication that the giant was stronger than average, it wasn't a surprise.

>>44527842
Why wouldn't they?
Drow are OK.
Wolves are OK.
Bears are OK.
Why not giants?

>>44527862
If you approach a goblin in full-plate and wielding an obviously magical weapon like you'd approach any other goblin, you're retarded and deserve to die.

>>44526825
but rope looks so good

although to be honest im not even into the dominance and submission i just find a nicely bound female body aesthetically appealing so its not really the same aim i suppose.

>>44527861
Ok besides Eberron. Eberron breaks all the rules.

>>44524670
They're playing RT correctly. Extortion is key. The only thing they failed to do was upload the rogue tau HQ location to a third party contact to keep the advantage and make capturing/killing them a bad idea.

>>44527650
>In a fantasy setting, its normal for giants to be in cities.
It really isn't. Like, I can;t actually remember offhand any non-noblebright fantasy settings where giants can freely walk around cities.

>>44527885
Who lets drow/wolves/bears in town?

>>44527920
Retarded city guards who will soon be fired.

>>44527885
>drow
Are attack on sight

>wolves and bears
Are attack on sight unless accompanied by a dirty guy with a staff that looks like it's still alive and a bird nesting in his hair.

>>44527885
>Drow are OK.
>Wolves are OK.
>Bears are OK.
What kind of retarded setting is this?

>>44527865
I don't disagree with you about letting players face the consequences of their carelessness, but is it the DM's job to punish players for not being invested in his game?

>>44527641
>attacking a provably evil monster (of a race known for its evilness and destructive nature) you encounter in the woods is not only morally defendable and commendable, but also beneficial through loot and experience.
this part i agree with but that doesn't mean that when you get thoroughly beaten you shouldent retreat

thats book of exalted deeds levels of retarded

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>>44527964
>unless accompanied by a dirty guy with a staff that looks like it's still alive and a bird nesting in his hair.
Why can't druids and rangers be like pic related?

>>44524670
Why didn't they just bomb the Tau from orbit? Or negotiate with the Tau empire to gang bang the secessionists and take all the fat loot? Seems like you are the one that wen't full retard.

>>44527900
I want to say Dark Sun, because where else would all the half-giants come from.

>>44528000
>Why didn't the players do X?
>Player's didn't do X, therefore you went full retard.

Maybe if the players had actually tried something like that, instead of treating the Tau as retarded, they might have succeeded in their task.

>>44527920
Here.>>44527296
And many other examples in other threads.

A few rules for you oldfags.
1) anything PCs want, they get
2) consequences are wrong
3) 1pc is more powerful than all NPCs or the DM is a dick
4) cities NEVER have laws PCs don't like

That's how I am seeing d&d is played by tg.

>>44528039
Not in most communities in darksun actually.

>>44527473
> only problem with this is that in 5e...
You Ass-U-Me stuff

>>44528059
Fair enough, I really don't know very much about Dark Sun.

>>44528048
Also, if PCs/Players aren't given everything they ask for the GM is bad.

>>44527967
That is /tg/d&d

>>44527993
Because living in the woods and coexisting with the land makes it kind of hard to be a tiny nubile dancer boy with a bleached asshole whose silky soft hands would be raw and bleeding if he ever actually swung a weapon.

>>44528048
>That's how I am seeing d&d is played by the couple of autismos in this thread that don't know how to play D&D or what the phrase "DMPC" means

>>44528078
Clearly the gm is a passive aggressive autistic.

/tg/ lol

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>>44528092
True, but have you considered pic related?

This thread has taught me some of you fucks need to just go write shitty novels if you don't want your players to do anything but follow your shitty ass story.

The game is for the players, not for you to wank over your shit ass plot.

>>44528092
kek
>bleached asshole dancer druid

That..made me laugh.

>>44526882
I'm not so sure about this back story, but I really don't know. What do other people think?

Should I steal this?

>>44527875
>The players had every indication that the giant was stronger than average, it wasn't a surprise.
No. They had indication that the giant was wearing armor.

That doesn't imply it has abilities above and beyond other giants, only that its armor class is higher. (Which is a valid way for the encounter to be considered a challenge by the party).

The fact it has levels and the armor is supposed to give this away is a metanarrative thing. He has to be strong, because giants don't have armor! Except characters in a game don't have this kind of meta awareness, so expecting him to be exponentially stronger than a normal giant is metagaming.

>>44528131
Yes, players should never have negative consequence. Really, what do you actually think the giant guy did wrong? What should have happened differently to make it "correct".

>The game is for the players, not for you to wank over your shit ass plot.

Also fuck you and your entitlement. I as the GM put in more work into this campaign than you do. I'm here to have fun too.

>>44527984
Frankly, yeah. If they are so uninvested in the game that they put in the bare minimum to play (I.e talking about murdering a giant next to said giant) then they deserve what's coming to them.

Hell, even if they were talking ooc their characters disposition towards the giant is to immediately try and kill it without the paladin in character stating he is evil to the party. They were probably glaring daggers at the guy and sizing him up which I'm sure a highly intelligent giant would notice.

Further, they continued to pursue said giant who just one shot their caster shows they are not following much logic to begin with.

Tldr: if an intelligent armored giant gives you an out, it's up to the characters and the players to make their choice and live with it.

>>44528131
Go back to >>>/v/ you entitled piece of shit.

>>44528117
A druid who dedicates and wastes time, effort and magical resources on making sure that his asshole is flawlessly bleached and his face gets men hard is a druid who's very quickly banished from his druidic circle.

Of course, that could be his backstory. He was too pretty to handle.

>>44527918
Thomas Covenant.

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>>44528131
Everyone in this thread has been japed.

>>44528142
>The fact it has levels and the armor is supposed to give this away is a metanarrative thing. He has to be strong, because giants don't have armor! Except characters in a game don't have this kind of meta awareness, so expecting him to be exponentially stronger than a normal giant is metagaming.

Ok, giant guy here. What I told them was the following.

>Resident alchemist makes a Knowledge Local check, rolls well
>Tell him giants are not very common around here, and giants with armor even less so. If he owns it he either made it himself (unlikely) or had it custom made for him, because Hill Giants are not known for their metallurgy. That and his greatsword. It would have cost quite a lot of money to get an artisan to make him such a large set of full plate.
>That bear he is roasting is a large one, probably an adult grizzly bear. He doesn't look worse for wear for fighting it.


Also I don't think I ever mentioned this. The PCs were level 4 at the time and there were 3 of them. A barbarian, an alchemist, and a gunslinger.

>>44528237
>The giant killed the caster first
>There was no caster in the party

Your story has some glaring inconcistencies, leading me to conclude that you are, in fact, the killer.

>>44528098
My old group..
>wade through an army of goblins just to chase down a rumor of a magic sword. We were so fucking happy to find a +1 longsword..totally worth it.

>old group: 1 human cleric, 1 human fighter, 1 elf mage, 1 dwarven thief

/tg/ group: the half-drow tiefling binder/dragonpriest , the catthing, the kenku monk/elemantal asimer bard, and the moonelf werewolf barbarian/horizon walker/swashbuckler...Go on a quest to find another +12 spear of fire/ice/lightening....

I prefer the old ways...thx.

>>44528152
>Yes, players should never have negative consequence. Really, what do you actually think the giant guy did wrong? What should have happened differently to make it "correct".
Oh in the OP's story? nothing at all. OP did well

but the OTHER anons in the thread are obviously just writing shitty fantasy novels and want to have a group see their totally col and original plot, throwing a tantrum when the players would rather do their own things.

>Also fuck you and your entitlement. I as the GM put in more work into this campaign than you do. I'm here to have fun too.

Fuck you, GMing is fucking easy. If you wanted to have fun, be a player. The days of the GM mattering more than just a loot and stat generator are long over.

>>44528142
You are fucking retarded.
>That doesn't imply it has abilities above and beyond other giants, only that its armor class is higher. (Which is a valid way for the encounter to be considered a challenge by the party).
This is a meta-narrative thing.
>The fact it has levels and the armor is supposed to give this away is a metanarrative thing
No it fucking isn't. Anyone with a working brain knows that if someone is wearing well-fitted armor, then that means that he has either earned it or took it from someone who did. While it's possible that the person in question just got lucky and might not actually have the skills to back up his looks, the armor by itself is still a sign that others should be cautious. The fact that the giant displayed obvious intelligence is another obvious warning sign.
>so expecting him to be exponentially stronger
You should always expect the opponent to be strong unless proven otherwise or you have enough confidence (or arrogance) to assume that you can win either way. It's like you don't know what roleplaying actually means.

>>44528300
Bait.
No one can be that stupid.

>>44528300
>Fuck you, GMing is fucking easy. If you wanted to have fun, be a player. The days of the GM mattering more than just a loot and stat generator are long over.

You're the kind of player I kick out of games. Holy shit I'm glad I don't have to try and pick up random fucks any more. I remember when I used to find games off of /tg/, they were garbage for a reason.

>>44528286
The Alchemist is a caster, what are you talking about?

>>44528336
GMs could be :^)

>>44528336
>>44528336
Not him, but you'd be surprised. I once created a thread that went to over 500 responses, most calling me a railroader because the party rogue failed to pick a door lock.

>>44528300
I'll take the bait.

If you want to play a game where you and your friends play in a group together and quest with little to no consequence, go play an mmo.

If you don't like your DM because he actually puts effort into the world he wants you guys to romp through, then find a DM who fits your playstyle. Shitting on people who like a different idea of what a game should be makes you sound retarded.

5/10

>>44528353
Alchemist doesn't cast shit. Making potions isn't casting stuff, bro.

>>44528445
Son, do you even tabletop?

>>44528434
If the door lock was the only way to progress the story and you made all depend on that, and afterwards they were just fucked (this is a ridiculously common occurence, bizarrely), then you are a railroader. Of the "Makes everything hinge on one check, doesn't actually consider what happens if this fails" -type.

If this wasn't the case, then pardon me.

>>44528528

No, there was nothing behind the door except some treasure. Furthermore, if said rogue had taken 20, he could have picked the lock; but they were too paranoid to stand still that long, and too afraid of the noise they'd generate bashing the door down to take that route, so of course it's "railroading" if the lockpick fails.

And it's also my "railroading" for giving them a system where it incentivized avoiding combat with monsters whenever possible (some 95% of encounters would be random wandering monsters on a number of tables; most of whom the party would be better off avoiding if at all possible, an ideal dungeon trek could involve lots of walking in empty or near empty rooms and picking up stuff if they could dodge the baddies)

>>44528480
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist

>Errata
>Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
>As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item. The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.
>alchemists are not spellcasters
>not spellcasters

Boom, eat shit.

>>44528528
Because its just unreasonable to think anyone locks doors?
>party didn't roll up a rogue
>a lock is seen!
>omg railroading gm!!!
Dafaq?

>>44528621
Oh, right. Then it was just /tg/ being retarded, as usual.

>>44528621
Man I can't even shitpost you how the fuck would that be in anyway railroading.

Like, do you remember how any one said it was railroading?

>>44528648
You'd be surprised how often a shitty DM just decides something along the lines of "And to get through this part, the party must pick the lock on this door/catch this escaping person/bluff this person/something else", and sticks to that without even considering failure. Or allowing anything to circumvent this.

The whole campaign hinging on a single unavoidable roll is a terribly common, terribly shitty issue, epidemic to railroady campaigns where the DM basically prewrites the whole outline of the game. Which happens a lot.

>DM'ing for the first time
>also the first time others are playing D&D
>playing LMoP from the starter set
>Make it through the goblin ambush and the trail OK
>Get to the wolves in goblin hideout
>Rogue wants one of the wolves to be her pet
>bad animal handling check to even calm them down
>Monk doesn't fuck around and starts killing wolves
>Rogue gets mad at monk
>approaches another wolf trying to calm it with food
>fails check cause they just murdered another wolf right in front of it
>Rogue get knocked unconscious by wolf she tried to calm
>they make it out after killing another wolf and three goblins and knocking out the last wolf
>Take a long rest some distance away from hideout
>wolf starts to howl, other wolves howl in distance
>try to make this goblin-trained wolf meant for raiding wagons her pet again
>fail the check
>two wolves rush into clearing as they knock the stolen wolf out again
>Fighter tries to calm the wolves who just saw them attack one of their kind
>fails miserably
>Monk decides to nope the fuck out of there and dashes 60 feet in the opposite direction
>Paladin: "i want to try to wrestle one of the wolves down"
>nigger what the fuck are you doing
>Rolls a 1
>wolf shakes him off and knocks him prone
>other wolf crits fighter
>Paladin tells monk to calm wolves by playing his flute
>nigger what the fuck are you doing
> Monk climbs a tree and plays his flute just to p[rove to the paladin that that's a bad fucking idea
>rolls 1 and wakes up the third wolf again

the only reason they made it out of there is because we'd probably never play dnd again if they failed.

>>44528738
There is a locked door.
Party doesn't pick locks.
>dm's fault
Wut?

>>44528656

Hence why today's retardation is quite possibly honest.

>>44528735

Because apparently, if you present incomplete information to the players, and they make bad decisions on the basis of incomplete information, you are railroading them.

Here's the archive of the thread, if you want to peruse it.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/40454349/#40454349

>>44528814
>DM knows that the party doesn't pick doors
>Literally makes it so that the only way to progress his story is to pick some lock
>Characters can't do it, now what?

And then awkward silence as the DM spends the next few minutes trying his best to give them an out. From a situation he himself forced.

The important thing to realize is that the scenario isn't that there's a locked door, it's that there's a locked door and the DM considers it the only valid way to progress. It's amazing how much of an elementary mistake that is, and yet how often you see it.

>>44528814
I see his point, though.
>BBEG starts channeling the demon summoning ritual under the city cathedral
>ritual room behind locked door
>can't pick the lock
>lol demon wreaks havoc and razes a good dozen buildings before the entire city's watch band together and bring it down, with heavy losses
>BBEG's forces overwhelm the crippled city
>you lose
In this sense, it seems unfair that not being able to pick a locked door defaulted their loss so simply. Even ignoring the other ways a desperate party might try enter the room. However, if you want consequences and realistic goals in your games, you *cannot* expect to be able to win every single time, unless the GM is purposefully catering to you that you do 'win'. (but then it isn't really about consequences, is it?)

>>44528916
Sure, characters should be able to fail, but there's a difference between "We formulate a plan that actually makes it plausible for us to succeed, but fail due to bad luck/mistakes/some other situation", and being railroaded into a situation where the whole thing hinges on a roll that won't succeed.

Hell, I recall official AD&D 2e modules that basically lay out the whole outline of the adventure, up to and including "The party succeeds at X and finds out that Y" in a very specific manner. This is just terrible design and writing all around.

>>44528997
In my painfully honest opinion? (painful for me anyway...) I would prefer that kind of extreme realism. Unless playing exalted or some other crap, you guys are just a bunch of blokes who wound up together for loot and shit. Sometimes, the BBEG is too big, too bad, too evil, and too guy for you all to overcome. Losing is a real device in the story. Kinda like how I can appreciate game of thrones even though every single character I get attached to and relate to gets brutally and nonchalantly slaughtered within half a book's length. It's a dangerous game when you fall over your own feet designing every BBEG with so and so many failsafes for how the 'rough band of unlikely heroes' manage to succeed even after meeting certain failure at points A through G. But hey, at least GM put in failsafes up to H, right?

The point I'm trying to make is that I personally don't think BBEG win scenario shouldn't only ever be tabled on the conditions you DID get to have a go at him and failed in direct combat. Sometimes they are just smarter than you and crush you because you didn't prepare well enough, sometimes without even dealing with you personally.

Me and other people then also point out that it's the mark of a pretty cool GM who can turn that loss into another campaign with another band of heroes, revitalized and more ready to go than ever from their harsh loss.

>>44528635
>pathfinder

>>44528762
kek, good story

>>44528762
Someone managed to completely and utterly screw up the second encounter of LMoP?

Is this real life? I need a moment...

>>44528906
Gm sits down and draws up an adventure for next week's game.
Puts the mcgruffin on an island far away.
PC's must find a boat to take them there.
>player1 "we don't have a boat"
>player 2" let's find one"
>Player3 " this is bullshit!!! Fucking gm knows we have no boat?!"
>player 4 " imma post this railroading shit on /tg !!!!"

Tg d&d

>>44529560
I wish we had more player 2's

>>44529183
When there's an alchemist and a gunslinger in a D&D-type game, it's pretty fucking reasonable to assume Pathfinder.

>>44528814
If there's no alternative offered, yes, it's the DM's fault. Especially if they stick to their idiotic initial plan and veto any alternatives the players come up with.

>I roll to kick the door down.
>Uh...! You fail! The door's hinges are too strong!
>Alright then. I heft my axe, and chop through the door.
>Uh... uuuh...! You fail! The door is made of metal, not wood!
>I cast Gaseous Form and seep under the door, then reform on the far side and unlock it.
>Uuuuuuh...! The door is sealed tight! No gas can get through!
>What the fuck? Okay, fine. I cast Unlock on the door.
>Oh no- uh... the door has an anti-magic ward on it!
>Oh, for fuck's sake. Welp, I'm out of ideas. What about you guys?

>>44529887
Oh, never mind, just read the thread. The lockpicking had nothing to do with the plot, and was just about getting extra loot. I'm an idiot for not taking the time to understand the context. My bad.

>>44529599
Well gunslinger and alchemists eventually make their way into dnd through supplements. Although pathfinder is pretty popular, so makes sense you would go to that. All is forgiven.

>>44529581
When my players got flooded in by monsoon rains, they turned their wagon into a boat. I was too impressed to nitpick the details.

>>44529887
Finally, an NPC who properly prepares his privacy and secrets and valuables behind actual impenetrable doors. Can't complain about hand holding now, can you?

On a more serious note, when does "it doesn't happen" ever go down? Isn't it a question of how much force you need to break a metal door, not simply "you can't"? I imagine the axe might not work, but explosives might, et cetera.

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>>44527092
literally my group

>>44528738
This reminds me of something that happened in my game semi recently, except I knew how stupid it'd be if they failed the roll.

>PCs searching an abandoned lab with some plot important information on it
>it's on a thumb drive dropped/hidden somewhere
>don't actually make them roll for it, and just say the person with the highest perception finds it

If it was something where the consequences of not finding it would have been interesting, I would have given them a chance to fail though.

>>44529142
Killing off main characters anti-climactically midway through a story is fucking stupid and terrible writing.

If you're plotting a campaign, you create a villain, give them a goal, give them a clear outline for how they intend to achieve that goal, then let them go at it. Meanwhile, the PCs are the spanner in the works, that the villain has to adjust for.

Like, "oh bollocks, those meddlesome heroes got the third piece of the Arkemnara Amulet before my trusty henchmen could. How can I get it back? Are they likely to put it somewhere for safekeeping? Or will they carry it on their persons, where they can keep an eye on it? I'd best send out a spy to track their movements, and see what they do."

Then, later, the PCs might end up travelling with a wandering poet they met on the road. Perhaps they're idiots, and tell the poet all about their quest, including the fact that they have a piece of the Amulet in their packs. Later, the poet vanishes one night, and the next morning the party is assaulted by a massive squad of the villain's minions, who attempt to seize their travel bags at all costs. Perhaps they fight off the minions and keep their piece of the Amulet. But now they know the villain has spies, the villain knows where they are, AND the villain knows they've got the Amulet piece with them. What do they do now, to keep the piece safe from the villain's clutches?

That's good storytelling, and good GMing, because everything springs organically from the wants, abilities and knowledge of the characters involved. If you can pull that off, knowing when to relax and give the PCs some breathing room*, and when to have the villain pile on the pressure, you'll easily create a grand old adventure.


*Remember that your villain isn't (or shouldn't be) omniscient. If he doesn't know what the PCs are doing, he can't act against them effectively.

>>44528906
He said it wasn't necessary to progress. It just happened to have loot AND the party had a Rogue who didn't want to take a 20 on it. Read, pls.

>>44529887
He specifically said they could get through it in a variety of ways. They were just too chickenshit to try.

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>Deathwatch
>Brother Arkio is surrounded by daemonic horde
>Decides rushing through it is too dangerous
>Decides to clear the horde by detonating a fucking grenade in his hand
>Righteoys fury
>Confirms
>Righteous fury
>Confirms again
>Three members of the Kill-Team receive 26 damage
>Techmarine goes deeper into negatives, his chestplate is now ruined and power unit significantly damaged
>Afterwards the apothecary set the techmarine on fire by shooting his promethium canister because the latter was failing willpower tests to "purify" him
>mfw throughout the entire encounter

>>44531318
>>44531370
No.
I refuse to actually READ it.
I will instead, imply a bunch of shit, make a bunch of shit up, and call the gm names.
Why?
Because I am mad at even the thought of not being an invincible snowflake that the entire game is about.

Snowflakes should never be stopped or slowed or denied anything. A gm that does that is a passive aggressive autism that should die.

>>44525272
>an bear
Italian detected

>>44526526
>>44527825
>>44527906
Yeah, but Rogue Traders and Seneschals are supposed to be business-savvy. Immediately demanding 90% to an interstellar power that doesn't even need you, and then passive-aggressively threatening them while you're in their territory, is super fucking stupid. At absolute best, they'd consider it an insult and send you away, thus missing a potential profit. At worst, and the path I should've taken considering the whole threat part, they'd be facing a pretty short war, against their favor.

Extortion is all well and good, but you're not supposed to dive face-first into it. There's a time and place.

>>44528000
Because they were outnumbered and outgunned 1,000-to-1 on the ground, and about 12-to-1 in space.

>>44528046
In summary.

>>44527092

Fun fact that makes this even more hilarious: rabbits are not particularly fond of carrots and especially don't like the orange tuber (leaves are fine though). They will eat them if they're hungry and there's nothing else, but it's not actually desirable at all.

This is a myth made popular by Bugs Bunny, who was referencing a scene from Clark Gable's It Happened One Night. The movie became obscure, but the old Bugs Bunny cartoon is a classic and the character stuck to the habbit of eating carrots all the time, so it became iconic of rabbits to eat carrors.

In real life, rabbits don't really like tubers (they're tough and chewy and not that nutritious) and would much rather go for fresh greens (grass, the leafy bits, whatever) instead. Bug Bunny spawned this persistent myth that has actually resulted in many pet rabbits dying from malnutrition due to only being fed carrots.

Those rabbits were just being fucking dicks.

>>44524193
I had that problem.

For some reason my druid thought he had access to 3rd level spells at level 1

My fighter didn't even know he had feats.

the rogue somehow conviced himself that he could manipulate point buy into giving him 20 str and 20 dex while none of his other attributes dropped below 8

Favorite PC was an expert that one of them made though.
"Fuck combat. I want to build cool shit"
I let him run wild.
he came up with a bunch of cool stuff that I waved as allowable.
>party killed an octopuss
"I want to make climbing boots out of it."
>used 8 tentacles to make four pairs of "sucker boots".

>>44528092
A Druid who turns into an animal to do nearly everything important he needs doing would look like a total wuss, though. And he could keep up that appearance, because his "job look" is being a bear or lion or something.

>>44527092

Hahaha

My players interrogated an old lady who was selling fruit on the street where to find the secret entrance to the castle.

With a glint in my eye I lead them on to buy fruit in exchange for information.
At an exorbitant price.
After buying the last basket of spoiled gourds I had the NPC wish them well in their endeavor and buy a wagon and horses next door and whip the horses to full speed out of town.

It was only 50 gold but they were pissed.

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>>44532386
>asking an old fruit vendor how to sneak into the castle
They deserved it

>>44532119

>Party can't even roll up characters
>One player picks an NPC class
>Makes Angus MacGyver

Good player.

>>44529142
In theory, yes.

In practice, though, it isn't that easy. I had a DM who ran like this, except he assumed a whole lot from the party. He was railroady and extremely light on information (I don't think he even named the town we were supposed to save). He told us we could just make whatever characters, and then we ended up in a trap-dungeon with no trap-finding character. At the end of that, we ran into the big bad, who kicked our asses. The DM chided us for not finding out what his powers were, and for not using proper tactics. Of course, we were a low-level party mostly comprised of monster races at the lowest of the setting's totem pole, and that's what we played like.

Of course, it was completely impossible to gauge the power of even the basic enemies. I mean, Grease worked well against weapon wielding enemies? Now even the simplest gobbo's have locking gauntlets. Enemies described as "skeletons" ahead? Yeah, those are Skyrim-scaled murder skeletons you've never seen before (and will never see again).

It's almost as if he expected us to metagame. As in, look up what shit like succubi can do, so we can keep it into account for his gruelling encounters. Because when my character DID try to find shit out about what we were up against, I only got some vague hints.

Point is, what looks logical from the DM's point of view might not from the players'.

Was not DM, but one game I felt quite frustrated.

Joined a Rogue Trader RPG. Was the pilot of the ship, and we encountered a small Dark Eldar fleet (3 ships). Basically went like this:

Me: Orders, Captain!
Captain/Trader: Open fire!
Me: I'm not sure that that is a goo-
Captain: OPEN FIRE!

Once we got the Dark Eldar's attention:
Me: What now, Captain?!
Captain: Lolidk

>>44525272
> This fucking story again

I mean, your players are pretty stupid, but there are way other than death to TPK and still move the story along.

Then again, you're playing D&D with the alignment system so you're probably a shit DM as well.

Rule Zero, my nigger, Rule Zero.

We ran our thirf DnD 5e campaign with a "fall of the Roman empire" style theme. I had created lore, reversed race stereotypes (ex.The elves were nomadic horsemen) but my players weren't so fleshed out... out of the 5 players two were garbage. One, a normally good roleplayer, became a CN halfling barbarian and attacked anything that moved. From homeless beggars to innkeepers and the second who was a NN blind fighter (I only allowed thus because being blind gave no advantage and a slight disadvantage) who tried to act as a lone wolf all the goddamn time, and couldn't stop metagaming. Here was a recent example.

>After a large battle between undead vulture monster and city guards. The guards has left the wounded and dead to search for their king.

>blind fighter:"I'm only 10xp from the next level, so I will look for zip wounded guard to kill."

>Players guffaw and he gives a shit eating grin.

>me: "Your alignment will change to evil because of this. People don't know you have a level after this, it'll just be killing someone."

>"But cooome on anon! It's just one person!

I ended the game their since it was getting late. Fortunately we weren't able to continue the campaign because players left for college. It's a real shame my work was wasted but I'll just use it some other time.

Can someone summarize me the giant thing? I'm confused.

>>44532766

GM made an intelligent giant (intended as a recurring NPC), giant pinged pally's Detect Evil, party started talking how to murder giant, giant overheard and killed one of them before fleeing, party gave chase and got slaughtered.

Reasonable discourse ensues.

>>44531289
>terrible writing
This has already been proven to be not the case. If the writing is excellent enough, characters can be killed off in violent and meaningless ways and people will still read game of thrones (personally, I put down the book(s) several times, but always came back to continue when my favourites died). Likewise, if the D&D narrative is powerful enough, it technically doesn't matter if you play fucking hobos that never even approach killing BBEGs or conversing with royalty, as long as the GM (along with the players) can weave a fine story to enjoy. Heck, you don't even need to have persistent PCs. I bet if you were good enough you could do a rolling one-shot for one-shot campaign in a persistent world and still have it fun.

>... because everything springs organically...
>... knowing when to relax and give the PCs some breathing room...
Bit of a contradiction there. Though the real issue is calling it organic when the GM has his own agenda afoot, and may not want to curb stomp the adventurers in classic spiteful manner, according to his alignment.

>give villains a clear outline, a way to achieve that goal, then let them go at it
As a story teller, especially telling the story of a non-player character, there is no point at which you 'allow' plot devices to do their thing. Each and every single part of the story is derived from your own motivation and control. It doesn't happen unless you make it happen. Projecting a sense of motivation for your characters is great, but don't pretend they are independent.

Comes down to reiterating that stories with effective consequences end up building much stronger relations to characters, and more positive outcomes when you do eventually succeed, since it feel more hard-earned, though I'm not suggesting holding your PCs hands doesn't provide an enjoyable story, just not as good.

>>44531289
>Then, later, the PCs might end up travelling with a wandering poet they met on the road. Perhaps they're idiots, and tell the poet all about their quest, including the fact that they have a piece of the Amulet in their packs. Later, the poet vanishes one night, and the next morning the party is assaulted by a massive squad of the villain's minions, who attempt to seize their travel bags at all costs. Perhaps they fight off the minions and keep their piece of the Amulet. But now they know the villain has spies, the villain knows where they are, AND the villain knows they've got the Amulet piece with them. What do they do now, to keep the piece safe from the villain's clutches?

Wait, the villain goes to all the clever trouble of hiring that sneak to sidle up to the group and gain enough trust to hear the boasting for this trinket, and he follows through by... throwing thugs at them? Doesn't try to steal? No sleight of hand? No distractions while they try to indiana jones the bag? Heck, even say the poet feigns surprise and familiarity and tells the group the trinket is actually a faith-sacred relic and the church of <fuck knows what> has been looking to retrieve it for months since it was stolen - cue ambush or even over-the-top farce to acquire trinket.

Or just throw thugs and more thugs at them that are apparently too weak to challenge the group, since you're throwing so many at them anyway, just to retrieve a bag. No expertise, no refinement.

>>44532027
I like the idea of animals being Dicks to adventurers.

>>44532027
Was it really necessary to delete an entire post for that? I felt the post was still perfectly understandable, given the context.

>>44532513
Maybe it is the difference between theory and practice, I guess. Though it sounds like that GM sucked balls. I can understand not naming shit upfront if your lazy, but if you don't even have the information there for the PCs to use when they deliberately try to investigate, what the fuck kind of story is it? But then it doesn't seem like he was railroading, just really really vague and prone to making the party fail.

As for murder skeletons, I don't give a shit how they are dressed, all that matters is features, level, and stats being appropriate. So, being 'skyrim scaled' murder skeletons only gives him another five points for being a dickhead.

>>44526200
That's just fucking funny. I'm not even mad, just impressed.

The giant story still raises further questions.

What exactly did you expect? Them to just walk on by to town?

An armored giant is eating a bear on the side of the road tells you to fuck off. What else is he going to be BUT a fight. He doesn't want to talk so no plot, character advancement or world building can be gained. Ignore detect evil since its being used as detect excuse and let's use a neutral example.

You see a lion at the watering hole, it growls as you pass by guarding its fresh killed gazelle.

...and? No, a normal person probably wouldn't want to fuck with a lion for no reason (Objection that PCs are rarely logical) but with that much attention how is it not important?

Animation fatigue, Chekhov's gun, you make it clear that since this sticks out from the background it has to be important. How do you describe window dressing without implying it will be on fire or a rope.

You flagged them out of fast travel to go hey, look at this giant, look but no touching or talking. What other purpose could he have had?

Had the giant gone "Look little people its been a long day to earn my pay. Took hours to clear the bandits I just want to eat my breakfast in peace." Then the party is just assholes for atracking. Since now they know a) he isn't a murder monster b) civilized enough to though uninterested in conversation and c) we should get work killing bandits in town.

Character, world building and plot. All it takes is how the giant says fuck off.

Also really, I love tanks in pathfinder and there is no way a tank, let alone a giant sneak rushes an entire party without magic.

>>44534185
It's called setting up a recurring character, Anon. It's not that hard to think about.

And yet this is still being argued, somehow. I like the premise he was working towards. It's a shame his players were retarded.

>>44534185
>raises further questions
No, it doesn't. Honestly, when I read the original post, I immediately started thinking "oh shit, step back, maybe offer him a gift so he might remember you in a positive light, walk calmly the fuck out of there". Yeah, when I browse /tg/ I sometimes ask myself what I would do in situations. It's a quirk.

In any case, not only is animation fatigue irrelevant because this isn't animation nor is the story ridiculously sparse for fleshing (read OPs follow-through notes), but you fail to legitimately take into account the option of not attacking the bloody armor clad intelligent giant, even while simultaneously giving an example about not messing with a fucking lion who is just snacking on a gazelle. If, once again, you bothered to read OPs follow-through notes, you would realize this encounter was a part of the character building for the story and offered some reactive choices the PCs can take down the road. At no point in time do other sentient beings need to throw you absolute courtesy in communication to avoid you going full retard murderhobo on their ass as justification.

The giant IS important. But. That. Doesn't. Mean. You. Must. Attack. Him. I swear to god this thread has me so confused as to whether you guys are legit seriously childish about this stuff or are really freaking good trolls.

>>44534462
I can tell you why they attacked.

>a giant! May be a lair nearby. Let's kill that fucker and gain some armor and other goodies!

And that, led to a tpk.

Pc's fault any way you look at it.

>>44534185
>see a group of soldiers on patrol
>soldier tells us to fuck off, they are busy doing soldier stuff
>party attacks
>dm's fault for tpk

>>44534185
>be DM
>instead of boring " OK u travel and get there", I throw some flavor in
>describe a herd of buffalo near the road
>PCs wave at buffalo
>buffalo r dicks, don't wave back
>PCs attack, cause its the only way to deal with uppity no-waving buffalo
>tpk
>players call me names

>>44534185
>PCs are crossing the swamp, lv 1
>see a pack of trolls in the distance
>PCs say " hello!"
>trolls grunt at them
>PCs hang around preparing to attack
>trolls attack first
>tpk
>DM is a dickhead

>>44534795
>See DM walking down the street
>Wave hi to him
>Doesn't wave back
>Must be hostile, cross street to ambush him
>Get TPK by passing truck
>Fucking DM

>>44527092

My headcanon is that the rabbits DID know what the party wanted to find out but didn't tell them shit because they know that snitches get stitches.

>>44535027
Yea. Rabbits are solid. No snitching.
Should have asked the squirrel. Those fucks will rat out anyone.