Surreal Roleplaying

You can't. Not with verbal story telling

>>44518631
What?

>>44518631
This. The story telling becomes vague or turns to black.

>>44518631
surreality is more of thoughtful complexity, its all a matter of presentation, perspective, and preposition to the content.
>>44518655

Give me like 20 minutes I will find a few authors that do surreality well.

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>>44518604
It takes years of slow work and a group who knows you. You let them make the surrealism themselves, and just feed them the excuse. Had a great time with the last few games doing this, and I look forward to the end of this game when shit really starts to bend insideout.

I guess for a more concrete example, I plan to have a sort of memetic dream virus called the Ideal strike the town the PCs live in, while they're away. It basically works against your own willpower and imagination, by infecting your dreams to allow you to experience your own individual ideal reality.

It works in gestalt, so the more people trapped in the dreaming coma, the more information it has to better reinforce everyone's ideal. Eventually, everyone just drifts into a coma and never wakes up, dying as they waste away, becoming trapped in a never-ending brain dead fantasy.

The players job will be coming back to this, and having to dream dive to dismantle the web of ideals until its weak enough to lose its hold on the town; they'll have to dismantle perfect realities from within, one at a time.

>>44518669
>>44518655
>>44518631
There is a type of literature call surrealism, with poets and authors that write their pieces with concise introduction with surreality in mind... surrealists.
>>44518661
I found one in the cabinets I remember /lit/ introduced me to last year, Aventure translated

>>44518604
It relies on abstraction of differing parallels, work that dulls the reader's senses and expectations

>>44518604

It's something that can't be forced, but I think parts of Wraith: The Oblivion did it very well. There's a lot of fucked-up and creepy imagery in the Underworld.

>>44518604
The story, no matter what it is, is an adventure, it is the adventure. While you should base around you adventures upon the game mechanics set in place you can make it a point to disregard these mechanics in order to establish some greater merit to the change. Being surreal is all about going off the deep end, gradualism holds no ground in it, the least they no the more wonderment they should be in if driven well enough.

Break down the core qualities of writing as a whole to find where things can get screwy, not only is the world your oyster but the oyster of your metaphorical oyster is pearl-carrying clam just waiting for you to crack open.

I'd love to have an abstraction thread on surreality, but Im sure there will be no follow through

>>44518604
Sparingly. Give just enough info that they know that things are "off", and let their minds fill in the rest.

>>44518604
Why do you guys try to make these fucking games into something FAR beyond the scope of what they were designed for?

Why limit what is good by the constraints of the medium?

Just write a fucking book.

>but we're exploring the edges of the game

Yeah, cool. It'll be shit. People have explored it and you know what they realized? Wasting their time trying to make better games is better spent on making a fucking book.

Books
>singular vision
>controlled environment
>can make money
>reach wide audience
>more to work with
>literally no limits, just what you can coherently describe

RPG's
>nerds
>limits
>only 1-5 people will ever hear of it
>they have input too
>why?

>>44518880
Its fun to find limitations and extend them artificially. Its fun to constrain yourself and force yourself to comprehensively make and work out a functioning story that is based of the idea and flow of the story.
Adding input into the equation puts you into a position where you have to write in theoretical, chart in vectors, and anticipate meta-discourse.

To get back to the subject, how to you plan the portrayal of surreal arts, no matter the medium

There is a french game that is all about surrealism. It's called patient 13. Too bad i couldn't find an english version

>>44518661
>Give me like 20 minutes I will find a few authors that do surreality well.

>AUTHORS

What does this have to do with traditional games though? Because you're fucking kidding yourself if your GM is equivalent to whatever authors you're about to namedrop and your players are some kind of savvy hipster /lit/fags who appreciate how deep it is.

>>44519022
Sorry I forgot to give the authors name, I am more sorry that I mentioned lit. The author doesn't really matter too much given the circumstance, I just thought it appropriate to provide an example.

I didn't really want people to stump the thread as they were, nor did I want to put myself off the way I did.
My GMs aren't that good
I am not that good as a GM
I have never tried to engage my players in the way
I can't remember a GM that has tried to
My friends don't care for literature
I doubt anyone I know, including myself, care for how 'deep' something is
I am bored

Why would you discourage surreality in RPGs?

>>44519147
>Why would you discourage surreality in RPGs?

Because they don't work. Period.

The fact that your initial response was to bring up a fucking author in the context of p&p games is evidence of this in itself.

>>44519022
>Doesnt understand the concept of "Inspiration"

>>44518880
This person is more right though, the sad part about "Surrealism" in a tabletop is that is more or less boils down to "lul randumb" more than thoughful encounters.

>>44519251

>Doesn't understand that RPGs are different from books
>Has to be told this by another Anon

lmfao desu senpai

>>44518988
You sound like a twat in every applicable meaning.

You sound like a hipster, pseudo-intellectual but still manage to look like any other scrawny neckbeard. If I didn't say that you are so insecure you would post a picture in response to this, you would but now that I said that you won't to prove a point.

This medium isn't meant for this kind of shit and because of that you think juxtaposing surrealism in a medium made for brain garbage will mean it is good.

You cannot take high, dark, or abstract content and apply it to this. It will be bad. It is bad in video games, it is bad here.

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>>44519297
Dude, chill the fuck out.

>>44519223
>same post expresses my GMs have never done this
>same post expresses that they are not the type of people to do this
>it is implied that I have not experienced it
>respond with stories that are told in a concise manner
>evidence
Nah, no. Stop it.
You could have at least elaborated
>>44519297
ok

ok

I never really claimed that, I just like thinking about it.

Yeah, but I would actually like to talk about why that is.

>>44519346

Not him, but no, he shouldn't. OP was the faggot who wanted to talk about this dumb shit, so that guy is laying the smack down on this kind of dumb shit.

Fuck off if you can't handle the bantz.

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>>44519371
The samefag is strong in here. How are you this mad?

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>>44519386

>He thinks it's this unlikely that multiple people think he's a dumb fuck

lmfao pham

>>44519297
>calls a person a twat for liking things he does't like
>acts like a total twat

Dude, you're a fucking faggot.

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>>44519401
I still don't know why you're this mad over some dude wanting to put surrealism in his games.

Did some hipster steal your waifu or some shit?

>>44519371
Its just boring, why banter when they never even try to convince you. They never really take a side, show humanity, or feign with anything distinctly fun. Thats what I like about shitposting, not someone asserting of a false belief that surmounts to a flaming shit on someone's porch, its just boring.

>>44519420
>u mad bruh?

Why are you even posting? People are patiently explaining why your idea is dumb. That doesn't make them mad, it makes you dumb.

>>44519346
Fuck off. If I can stop one faggot from being like this I have made the world better.

>>44519369
Combining two different things that aren't good together does not quality make.

If you were as smart as you pretend you are you would realize this.

>>44519386
Quality post.

>>44519431

It's not my idea, for one.

>You sound like a twat in every applicable meaning.
>You sound like a hipster, pseudo-intellectual but still manage to look like any other scrawny neckbeard. If I didn't say that you are so insecure you would post a picture in response to this, you would but now that I said that you won't to prove a point.
>This medium isn't meant for this kind of shit and because of that you think juxtaposing surrealism in a medium made for brain garbage will mean it is good.
>You cannot take high, dark, or abstract content and apply it to this. It will be bad. It is bad in video games, it is bad here.

Not mad eh?

>>44518604
I find it works well in horror if you mix a dash of surrealism in. I find that the best method is to have some weird things that don't have any appreciable motive but seem to follow a semi-consistent course of action.

This thread is as follows:

> What if I put surrealism in ttrpg?
It'll be bad
It will be bad
Not made for it
> but what if it is done well?
Impossible
Nope
Please stop posting
> samefags
No
U suk

>>44519464

Explain how a medium that by necessity must be understood by the group you are conversing with could possibly be improved by purposefully explaining things in ways that cannot be readily understood.

>ITT anus achy hipsters

>>44519440
>This medium isn't meant for this kind of shit and because of that you think juxtaposing surrealism in a medium made for brain garbage will mean it is good
>I never really claimed that, I just like thinking about it
>combining two different things that aren't good together does not quality make
Banter requires a dynamic, you talking out of your ass without depth and filled with repetition does not make for good banter.

I'll now do the same:
>Yeah, but I would actually like to talk about why that is.
but as it now applies to both subject matters

Also, don't hipsters thrive off of being contrarian? Why would you cater to them
>Fuck off. If I can stop one faggot from being like this I have made the world better.

This thread is the dictionary definition of "escalated quickly". I mean what the fuck, a guy who cant see that authors can be used as inspiration for playing an rpg?! What the actual fuck?!

>>44519513

I'm pretty sure that it's less that authors "can't" be used as inspiration, and more that bringing up authors as some kind of guidestone on how to implement techniques for running P&P games means you're an utter dumbfuck for reasons that should be self evident if you have ever in your entire life analyzed how a book is read and how a P&P game is played.

>>44519431
>patiently
>explaining
We've gotten farely derailed off of the exact opposite

>>44519464
>>44519493
>is evidence of itself

How do you establish authority with your players/readers/responders? How do you shift your catch on authority by use of surrealism

>>44519535
have you even read the first 10 posts? its been explained. the relation has been explained.
>>44518988
>>44518820
of course it was told in a poor manner, but who gives a shit. it was explained

>>44519586
>have you even read the first 10 posts? its been explained. the relation has been explained.

The explanation is wrong.

I cannot believe I have to set your dumb ass straight here, but alright, I will do so.

Books are stories written and read by singular people who do not have an influence on one another.

P&P games are collaborative stories that are *made* through the actions taken by their participants in response to situations posed by the gamemaster.

They have little more in common than "there's stories involved" and "words are used I guess."

You're an idiot, and so are those two hipsters you quoted.

>>44519535
Thats one of the stupidest things ive ever read on 4chan. Think about that for a second.

A book is aformof storytelling, playing anrpg is a form of storytelling, are you seriously telling me there is zero crossover possibility ?

there is nothing " self evident " about that all.

>>44519624

>p&p storytelling = book storytelling

You're an idiot.

>>44519624
PnP has an issue of being improvised and lacks the structure and craftsmanship required of surrealism.

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>people replying to virt
Don't

>>44519670

>Everything I read that I don't like is the works of some random tripfag who got banned months ago

Is this meme still popular? I mean it's 2016!

You do it Werewolf:the Forsaken way. Animistic spirit world is a great way to explore lots of themes and added oddity and symbolism (often personal) in apperance or behaviour of those otherwordly creatures can make experience both surreal and pretty understandable.

Actually all media that deal with some kind of "augumented" reality are very good reference. Anime and manga often deals with quite surreal stuff, see Dorohedoro, Dennou Coil or even fucking Yo-Kai Watch.

>>44519619
>you cant expect the turnouts of player interaction
>you cant expect the turnouts of interplayer interaction
>there is only one avenue in which a GM can present their campaigns because I say so
>surrealism contradicts my gaming style
>surrealism contradicts all gaming style because there is only one gaming style
>surrealism cant work with the response of individuals or change the communication of individuals
>i decided not to read the posts anyway
>I cannot believe I have to set your dumb ass straight here, but alright, I will do so by provide no substance
>>44519643
>i havent nor do i care to read the thread
>>44519646
HOLY FUCKING SHIT AN ACTUAL RESPONSE?!
how is this possible?
I mean I started shitposting myself, havent slept in a few days, but my god I could never think someone would suggest a new perspective on the situation that isnt
>Book=/=PnP
i havent even been rediculing the people that agree with me in some way

>>44519670
17 posters son, I think I am about 18 posts in or something but i dont really care to find out

>>44519708
>there is only one avenue in which a GM can present their campaigns because I say so

I mean, if you want to be the fucking guy who sits down to "tell the players a story" instead of "pose situations for the players to respond to," you can run your game as wrongly as you want, but all you're telling me here is that not only do you not have any players, you likely don't GM at all.

>>44519754
you are right for the most part, in common application
>surreality is more of thoughtful complexity, its all a matter of presentation, perspective, and preposition to the content
>It relies on abstraction of differing parallels, work that dulls the reader's senses and expectations
>While you should base around you adventures upon the game mechanics set in place you can make it a point to disregard these mechanics in order to establish some greater merit to the change
I couldnt find much more that actually dealt with the presentation aspect, but this
I do gm but I dont use surrealism because I dont care about surrealism and my players dont care about surrealism... still fun to think about

You are right, there would probably be a lot of frustration in player control but it depends on the approach itself. Thats what I wanted to focus on, but we got like 3 good disputes, a bunch of examples, and a personal example of progression into surrealism.

I find surrealism really helps goes well with the kinds of porn I like, and I don't know if this is actually helpful to the conversation or not but it felt like it was all I had to contribute. Maybe I could use my porn preferences as good inspiration for some surreal writing, or possibly GMing though I'd have to somehow prevent it from becoming magical realm.

>>44519879
Sounds comfy, is it mostly aphrodisiac related or what?
How do you connect them? Is it visual or their actions have some tenuous link to porn? Jokes aside, that sounds like a lot of fun to watch or analyze.

>>44518604
I don't see how it would work. I can't imagine using the Surreal with itself as the main goal, and not devolving into lolrandumb. I can see it working in horror, and in a way, it's similar to fairy tales, but using surreal without a particular goal on players will very quickly hit a wall.

The way control is both taken away and given back in irregular intervals and the need to know how not to break the narrative with what you add is a great deal to expect from most people. The irony of the surreal is that you have to be on the same wavelength on one or a few levels of thought in order to get something interesting or engaging.

So if you were to ask me
>How do you use the truly surreal in your games?
I can only suggest what amounts to a collaborative fairy tale, requiring that everyone involved has read their fair share(which in the coming years may be a bit of a high bar to set without prior notice).

If you're asking about how to do it WELL.....tell me when you find a way to do that.

>>44519951
No. Honestly it's probably not what your thinking. I don't know how to describe really how it relates to surrealism and I honestly can't say I fully understand surrealism (though is that kind of the point?)

The specific fetish I have for it is vore. There has to be a very specific balance of tropes involved though. The specific relation to surrealism comes in with scenarios that have a very careful blend of casual fatality and horror blended in. I'm hesitant to try and describe it because somebody who isn't into it might not 'get' it, and even within the fetish there's such a wide variation on what people find arousing that what one person can be turned on by can be horrifying to another.

Just one particular story sticks out in my head that everybody agreed was surreal, but it's been years and I can't remember if it's furry related or not and I don't want to derail the thread that I haven't even read with random fetish stuff unless people are actually interested.

>>44520046
No. Thank you. Good bye.

>>44520003
>>44520045
>>44520046
/thread
I once had a dream about a pepsi commercial with a sexual vibe to it in the future I hope to be able to jerk it to pepsi commercials

You keep asking, Myrm, but it's about time you stopped waiting for other people to do it for you and do it yourself.

>>44518604
Just play Time Wizards and have the players do it for you.

>>44518604
By tricking and manipulating the players into making choices they don't understand and leaving them to find their own false meaning in what little glimpse they are provided.

Just make sure to avoid the "lul-random" that everyone seems to connect with anything beyond reckoning.

Don't be afraid to mix things up though, but whenever you do, make the new seem familiar and the familiar seem alien.

>>44518604

Check out Dreamhounds of Paris, OP.
http://pelgranepress.com/index.php/dreamhounds-of-paris/

Also, read this stuff: https://pelgranepress.com/index.php/tag/robin-d-laws/page/5/

And this, though it's not surrealism, can add a dose of the odd to your game:
http://pelgranepress.com/?p=18782

>>44518604

Oh, and also check out the granddaddy of surrealist rpgs, Over the Edge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Edge_(game)