MTG Modern General

>>44490403
I hope Gaddock Teeg doesn't keep his price, I want two more for my G/W Hatebears sideboard

He was in the SB of the Hatebears deck that top 4'd GP Pittsburgh as a one-of. Bogles has been putting up a lot of results but ffs, it's not like he sees play in Legacy thanks to Maverick being dead

Also, how does /tg/ determine sideboard slots? In decks with draw and manipulation one and two-ofs are fine, but in G/W Hatebears, main and side, everything is a 3 or 4 of because I have no draw power. If you run one and two-ofs that overlap in what they can hate that makes sense, but I feel safer running three-ofs. What does everyone else do?

>>44490403
Can Monastery Mentor be viable in modern please? I just want to have fun.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/27-12-15-jeskai-mentor/

>>44490592
I've heard from a friend that he just feels too slow to be usable in Modern.

>>44490403
Whats the next buyout so I can stock up now?

Boggles? Scape shift? Mono green aggro?

>>44490634
probably scapeshift. hasn't had a reprint in a long time, decks that use it are gaining some popularity.

>>44490591
>Also, how does /tg/ determine sideboard slots?
I tailor to the meta. No Ad Nauseum, Lantern Control, Twin, Scapeshift in my meta (except me), so I don't bother with those. Also, Affinity, Junk and Hatebears don't pop up much.

Because of Burn, Infect, Bogles, I often run 3-4 Spellskite. Because of Jund, I tend to run a few Threads of Disloyalty in the side if I have room. Because of Bloom Titan and Tron, I often run Blood Moon. Because of Elves and Tokens, I often run Whipflare or Pyroclasm. Because of Living End and UR Storm, I often run Nihil Spellbomb.

>>44490616
Not slow so much as cantrip-starved

>>44490747
>Threads of Disloyalty
I love you, anon!

G/W Hatebears (and Mono-White D&T, for that matter) have a great matchup against burn. Most burn boards don't run Satyr Firedancer (a card I'd recommend picking up because it's seriously underplayed in Burn and someone'll probably do a run on it), and that's the only one that gives me trouble. I do run Burrenton Forge-Tender for board wipes, and it does help against Burn too, for what it's worth. The only deck I can't deal with too well is G/R Tron, hence the Gaddock Teegs (which do work against quite a few other decks, including U-Tron, Twin and various forms of control). Combo Elves can be a problem but Mirran Crusader closes out plenty of games against them.

>>44490591
I Sideboard based on the meta at Stores in my area. Twin, Jund, Infect and Affinity are almost always present, plus a friend plays tron all the time which I have to prepare for.

Anything else that might appear is a random guess, from scapeshift to elves

What can infect board in against Jund? That's what most players near me play and they're all really good

>>44490920
Invisible stalker. They won't see it coming at all and with wild defiance you can easily punish them for fetch shock thoughtseizing you.

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>>44490403
How's GB Infect for a meme deck? Chris Fenell just won MOCS with this list

Decklist piloted by Gatormage/Chris Fennell in 12/20/2015 MOCS Event

Main:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Plague Stinger
4 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Become Immense
4 Glistener Elf
4 Groundswell
2 Might of Old Krosa
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Rancor
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Woodland Cemetery
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp

Board:
2 Vampiric Link
1 Doom Blade
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Nature's Claim
3 Creeping Corrosion
2 Spellskite
2 Corpse Cur

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>>44491033
Mono black or bust

>>44491064
Man I forgot how gorgeous Vatmother is

>>44491033
too slow, no cantrips, cant board in counterspells
still kinda funny

>>44490667
>$25 per card

Ehh, I'd rather invest in something else though...


I mean, are people even guaranteed to profit from these rogue buyouts?

>>44491033
>Phyrexian Crusader
Is it still under $5?

PICK THEM UP ASAP!!!!

>>44491293
They're sitting at like 3 dollars right now so speccing on them isn't a terrible idea if you're into that sort of thing. Tis the season for awful spikes and all that

>>44491293
They'll probably never be much more than that

>>44491351
This. If you're going to speculate, speculate on fairly decent cards, not fringe playables.

>>44491345
>>44491351
>>44491387
"Stupid" buyouts happen all the time. Look at Eldrazi Temple.
>Rare in Rise
>Uncommon in MM2015
>ANOTHER reprint in the Zendikar vs Eldrazi Duel Deck, a few months later

And it's as fringe as it gets. Some cards are even worse buyouts too. What you deem as "stupid" isn't always relevant.

Same can be said about lots of cards. Honestly at 3 USD you aren't risking much from just purchasing a playset and flipping them later. It's not getting reprinted anytime soon either and you know there will be copycats buying into the deck.

>>44491478
Hey I got my playset last year, but it's not like Infect has been getting a lot of new tech and if he hasn't been a staple so far he will probably never be.
Personally I think Crusader is one of the best black creatures in Modern but he just doesn't go in a lot of decks.

Does regenerating an artifact with Ensoul on it cause Ensoul to fall off?

>>44491654
nah

So why exactly did Glen Elendra Archmage get bought out?

>>44491992
the hell, it is bought out. what deck even fucking uses them?

>>44492087
Anecdotal but I've only seen it twice. Singleton in a grixis control list and 2x in a knightfall/bant aggro brew when BFZ dropped and people still thought it was a viable deck

>>44492087
Some gifts decks is all I can remember right now

>>44491992
I know that its used in EDH but thats it.

Just bought a playset of kor spirit dancers just in case, been building Bogles anyways

Where is everyone finding out about these buyouts?

>>44493041
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/movers/paper/modern

>>44493129
Thanks, that shit sucks.

It's a good thing that I'm a Yurofag, as we don't seem to be affected by this buyout.

Why don't I remember them happening before? Or was I just stupid?

lol all this buyout shit reminds me of when I played runescape and there were clans dedicated to buying out items on the grand exchange and inflating their price artificially to make a profit. never imagined I'd see the same concept applied to magic.

>>44491605
>>44491387
>fringe playable
I'll grant you that for mono-black infect as a strategy, but phyrexian crusader is a superb creature. The only thing holding him back is that infect as a whole lacks more creatures of his caliber, and a powerful creature does not make a deck.


He is very likely see a large spike in usage if we ever get a few more sets of infect/poison support. Infect or something like it will likely make a return the next time Phyrexia is used as the big-bad of a set. But who knows when that will be?

His stats are great. 2/2 first strike is respectable. Infect pairs very well with first strike and makes it frightening in combat. If you can pump him at all via equipment/anthems/etc, then he can practically swing without fear. Pro red/white renders him immune to some of the most popular removal spells in modern. He also has two tribes that can be relevant at times (although Zombie is generally more useful than Knight).

IMO pickup your playset and mothball it if you don't already have your copies. I'm not a fan of speculation so I don't advise stockpiling large sums of a card to try and profit in the future.

>>44493129
>http://www.mtggoldfish.com/movers/paper/modern
>Those price trends
Fuck. WTF happened to Ensaring Bridge? It was $5 when I bought mine.

It's like you can see the star city jew buy out stock as cards fucking double or triple in cost over night.

>>44493745
It's never going to be big in infect because the current lists have no reason to run it. Your point about pro white and red are true but it still dies to shit like firespout or pyroclasm after board. It's also too slow for the regular infect decks and black doesn't really give you any spells that help you. Some decks I know splash in black to get Thoughtseize after board but black itself has no great spells for the deck and the card costing 1BB makes it unplayable in infect the way it's played now and most likely will always be played

>>44490403
I picked up the rest of cards that I needed for merfolk. Any tips, or subtle lines of play beyond spreading seas+vial in lords and hit face?

I normally play DnT in legacy, and I already the vials and a couple caverns.

>>44493819
Lantern control being meme of the month, I imagine.

>>44493846
Crusader lives through cards like Pyroclasm since the damage comes from a red source.
Kozelik's Awakening would kill him, though.

>>44493846
>(...) still dies to shit like Firespout and Pyroclasm

I come back to /tg/ after a three year hiatus because I can't find any other place to discuss Magic with Spikes and immediately the old adage is reaffirmed:
"/tg/ sucks at Magic"

>>44493938
the majority of magic players suck at magic, get over it

>>44490403
Any idea WHY this card was bought out?

>>44493938
>>44493969
I wish there was a place to discuss with spikes. Like, seriously good spikes. Not the kind that sees a colorless card spoiler and says "might be decent in Affinity".

No, r/spikes doesn't cut it. I've literally seen a post that said "Eldrazi is the new Modern Midrange". Fucking disgusting

>but anon you are just an elitist

Yes, and I legitimately want to talk about competitive Modern.

>>44494124
the people who used to post on the wotc MTG forums were actually pretty good until they closed it down and told everyone to go to MTGS, then they all just scattered like the fucking wind for some reason. or maybe MTGS already had a large enough user base that they were just engulfed and overshadowed from that time on.

So is blue devotion any good in modern? Master of waves and thassa seem like theyd be really powerful.
Im just getting into modern and wanna go the cheapest route to start. Ive got a dull set of thassa and Master of waves among other things so I figured itd be cheap

>>44494253
Blue devotion would just be merfolk

>>44494347
Fuck off undermeme faggot

>>44494383
I know meme him, what a memeing memehouse

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>>44494478

>>44494347
Oh
Well then I guess a better question is what is the best budgey modern deck?

>>44493129
>http://www.mtggoldfish.com/movers/paper/modern

What did Glen Elendra Archmage do to deserve such a massive hike? And Eye of Ugin? I get the Eye but I'm still flabbergasted over the massive inflation from what I last knew to be a $5 card. I want this eldrazi deck to die already.

>>44494642
green stompy

>>44494549
Meme off>>44494549

>>44494642
mono green stompy is pretty bottom barrel price wise, at around $100
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=7266&d=241641&f=MO

next step up is probably budget hatebears, lists starting at ~$200 with room to upgrade as you go and match more expensive lists.
http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=285

>>44494948
>first deck in list
>$209
>nearly 75% of the cost is a play set of aether vials

reprint in non premium product pls

>>44495239
Its been a while since a premium product.

>>44495331
you know what I meant. if you don't know what I meant god have mercy on your poor retarded soul. now go pet a dog wrong or something

I just love playing Twin. The salt you get from certain people is worth the difficulty of handling the deck.

>>44495645
>difficulty of handling the deck.
Lol fuck off

>>44495701
It's definitely harder to play than Tron, Burn, and Infect.

>>44495701
Usually those who think decks are easy to play don't realize the gap between very good players of a deck and good players. It's easy to get from 0 to 50% ultimate efficiency but hard to get from 50% to 90%.

Twin has the worst sideboarding of all the modern decks too.

>>44495710
burn has to make a lot of decisions every single turn. people don't give burn enough credit.

>>44495736
Asking yourself "Do I bolt him now or on his end step?" is not hard.
The only time you'll bolt a creature is if it's Scooze or something with lifelink.

>>44495736
Completely agree with that. It's an easy deck on the surface and can be somewhat easy to play at a relatively good level (say 65-70%) but it's insanely difficult to play at a master's level. Your sequencing has to be absolutely perfect in certain situations.

>>44495776
I'd say even a novice can play burn to about 85% efficiency. That last 15% is for the likes of Pat Sullivan.

GIVE ME A CHEAP ELDRAZI DECKLIST

Instead of drinking and drugging on the town this new years I'm going to be spending money on my final glimmervoid and mox opal.

Feels real good guys

why aren't you playing gifts?

>>44496056
Why should I?

>>44496056
Why should I be?
It's never impressed me

>>44496073
>>44496080
It's an extremely fun/skill testing deck to play that can succeed in most metas.

>>44496119
I own all the cards for it and can't justify playing it as long as Sword of the Meek is banned.

I'll play it in a month.

>>44496119
>skill testing
Throw big creatures with game ending abilities in the graveyard and flashback unburial.
That's all I've seen from it

>>44496187
I think it was so much cooler when people played gifts like you're supposed to

>>44496249
How's that work?

>>44496295
You pick 4 cards, where any permutation gets you something that's going to win you the game or get you value. Snapcaster, scapeshift, bring to light, dispel or something like that

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Helicopter deck possible in Modern? I wanna try. Thoughts and opinions?

>>44495965

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/353002#paper

It's literally going up as we speak tho. It was 100 cheaper yesterday.

>>44496366
don't play magma jet it's shit play bolt

>>44496440
In mono red it's great.

In blue, where you have card draw, you are correct

>>44496440
>>44496483
Got it. Less shit more Bolts.

Do I even need counters?

>>44496330
Bring to Light is Wizards begging us to make a good Modern Gifts deck. Abzan splashing U doesn't sound entirely stupid, but also sounds suboptimal (Why play this deck over Abzan, or Jund splashing W? What bad matchups do we fix? What good matchups do we hurt? Is this worth it at all?).

I think we disregarded BTL too quickly. And Gifts too.

>>44496056
Gifts got more expensive. If it was still 5 bucks a pop I might. I've got a super secret Esper planeswalkers list that might just run it for value.

>>44496504
don't play the shitty token land

Could I make restore balance work as a control deck?
I'm thinking of like O-ring and some of the larger counterspells along with Ith and then 3 cloudskates and then the gargadons, along with the regular RB shenanigans

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What do you play from the top tiers?

>>44496509
I guess being able to bring to light a Crumble to Dust against Tron would be good for Jund.

Do any cards in affinity look good in foil?
Normally I love foiling my deck out but none of the cards in affinity.
Also that full art memnite is gross

>>44496689
U/R Twin

>>44496780
I've got a sexy foil Korean Ornithopter, looks pretty good. Also a foil Signal Pest. I think Mox Opal would look great in foil, most of the cards really.

>>44496704
I play BTL and Crumble in Scapeshift. Honestly though I've never been paired against Tron for some reason.

>>44496780
Foil Etched champion is pretty

>>44496509
>>44496509
It needs to be a role player, being able to be a draw engine in some situations and a finisher in others means it has a high power ceiling, modern just doesn't have a powerful enough card pool

>>44496945
I play against Tron twice a night now. It's fucking ridiculous. I'm about to build twin because I take this bullshit anymore.

>>44496689
knightfall became a thing?!

>>44497007
I won a match tonight when I mulled down to 5 against a Tron player who kept a hand with tron in it. I hit DE on T3 and Twin on T4.

The salt is real for Tron players in those matchups.

>>44490591

I sideboard according to my meta and depending on the deck I'll devote maybe more sideboard slots to my worst matchups. For instance my Ad Nauseam has more sideboard slots against aggro, infect and discard. My Elves deck has 2 Chameleon Colossus' against Grixis Twin decks because they can't deal with the card using spot removal.

It's fine to have lots of one and two-ofs in decks that don't have lots of draw and manipulation because you really don't want to dilute your deck strength too much anyway unless it's a really bad situation for your deck(e.g siding in a whole 4 Leyline of Sanctity in Ad Nauseam against B discard decks)

>>44491018

>Invisible stalker. They won't see it coming at all
>Invisible stalker.
>They won't see it

I'll give you a 4 out of 5. Good and subtle.

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>>44490591

Gaddock Teeg is actually rising in price to counter Seance decks. There are some pro's playing a G/W or G/W/X version that need him for the mirror. I am in a pro testing circle and know that there is a couple very real lists that will show up in the pro tour even though that bitcoin offer doesn't exist any more.

>>44495645
>difficulty of handling the deck.

I swear Twin players are insanely up their own ass

I wonder if Modern Eldrazi will bring a bunch of new people into modern who previously couldn't get in.

>>44494383
It wasn't an undertale reference but now it is
See what you've done to me
Shame

>>44494642
Like everyone else said Mono Green Stompy. What's your budget though?

>>44495645
>twin
>difficult
It's first grade desu. Granted its not the easiest deck but it's extremely intuitive.

>>44496056
Don't wanna shell out 40 buxx

>>44496689
Jund and all the Twin variants.

>>44497195
Heh

>>44497456
Most new players in my meta are playing Tron.
If you want to play Jund, you're fucked.

>>44496056
Don't like gimmick decks

>>44497508
That fucking bites. We have a pretty fair meta, like one tron guy who shows up occasionally, not much twin, and too much aggro for my liking. Oh well, at least most Tron players burn out eventually

>>44497569
So you only like goodstuff?

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>>44497710
gimmicks are any decks he doesn't like
synergy is any decks he does

mtg :^)

Anyone got a good Kiki-chord decklist? Are there any that run CoCo, I got 5 just sitting around.

>>44495645
>>44497456
it looks mind-numblingly simple to me, just hold countermagic and play the 2 card combo, don't run twin into a spell pierce like a tard. That's just a Storm player who's full of themselves talking though.

Should I get my thoughtseize now?
Is it only going to go up

>>44497860
It was reprinted so recently and warped Standard enough so I doubt it'll come back anytime soon.

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>waiting until banlist announcement to buy things
>fucking EVERYTHING is spiking

Goddamn it you fucks, stahp.

>>44497860

They've dropped a bit so get them asap. If you're going to buy into Modern and play for a long time just get the Thoughtseizes asap instead of trying to wait for the lowest price possible. It's not like you're going to sell them within a month or next week, I sure as hell am not going to trade/sell my Thoughtseizes anytime soon.

>>44497984
>want to finish my Bloom deckk
>afraid Wizards will be pussies and give in to timmies crying they lost turn 2 that one time

It's all over isn't it?

>>44491140
>I mean, are people even guaranteed to profit from these rogue buyouts?
There's no such thing as guaranteed profit. If they managed to offload the cards they bought at the price they've raised them to, they'll make money. But if this higher price causes people to sell more copies of the card, the price could drop back down to a point where it won't be profitable for the buyers anymore.

>>44497229
twin is stupidly easy to play against

like

green stompy shouldn't ever lose to it.

>vines your faggot cleric when you try to combo
>beat you down with 4/5s
>sick X/1 blocks for my rancored strangleroot geist m8
>oh you bolted my dryad militant? exile that bolt fucboi

>Wanted to make affinity since I had half of it.
>Still needed arcbound ravagers but didn't have a job to buy them
>Have a job now
>They jumped from like 20 to 45
Life sucks.

>>44498544
Patience man. A deck doesn't build itself over night. So it maght be two paychecks instead of one before you net a ravager. Just need to have a little dicipline.
Also a human can go nearly a month without food. All you need to do is skip a day or two. This might compensate for $10-20 depending on how you feed yourself.

>>44498625
Visiting supermarkets an hour or two before they close for the night for your food can save you a packet.

>>44498625
>>44498647
Just live on instant noodles for a while if you're that desperate

>tfw when finally have cash to spend and am torn between building Affinity, because aggro is my jam, and twin, because it just seems like it's the best deck in the format

>>44498867
>Not dropping Mycosynth Lattice so your Steel Overseers can pump your infinite artifact Exarchs

>>44491654
The creature never hits the bin due to regeneration being (unintuitively enough) a replacement effect and not a resurrection one, so no.

>>44496366
Needs bolt, possibly hangarback but I am not sure how well it holds up in modern.

I'd stick in remand and serum visions for value. take out token land and spy network. Probs also bring in thoughtcast.

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>>44491140
Storytime, Anon.

>played some EDH and GP level T2 back in 2002/04
>sold out MTG and went to college
>started getting back in the game around 2011
>showed up around the end of NPH
>decided T2 wasn't worth my time
>gonna build a EDH collection instead
>gonna need lands
>went to a local comicstore
>bought their binder filled with old shocklands
>almost full playsets of each one
>cost me about 250 euro total
>few months later they announce Modern
>shocklands skyrocket in price
>holyshitisthishappening.jpeg
>kept 2 of each and sold the rest
>doubled my investment in three months time
>this money bought the rest of my EDH collection
>this collection nearly tripled in price by now

>summer last year
>decide it's time to start with Modern
>go to GPX Utrecht (the MM2015 one)
>pull five Karns from packs
>shitlol.jpeg
>traded & bought the rest of Tron together
>one week after the GP Ali Antrazi (sp?) wins SCG open with Tron
>buyout hype happens
>resold the deck
>doubled my investment -again-

>>44497807
The difficult part is twin is knowing when to search for the combo and when to back off and focus on preventing the enemy from building a board. Your enemy can get a 4/4 on the field because he wasn't worth the counter at the time, and then spend 5 turns delaying the combo as he beats you to death.

>>44495758
that'll depend on the list you're playing bruv. mono red burn is pretty straight forward but sequencing is important, atarka burn has opportunities for complexoty, and my fave boros burn has tons of interaction and decisions. the abilities of charm coupled with better removal and burn makes it definitely harder to get right.

so how do y'all feel about shitty fringe combo bullshit? cause boy do i have a deck for you, straight from the mind of my builder.

leechbonder + paradise mantle
devoted druid
quillspike
flourishing defenses

leechbonder makes crazy shit happen. has disruption, draw, and ways to make unblockable. its a pile of jank but ive seen it beat twin affinity delver bloom titan and burn regularly at turn 4 or 5. its an anomaly. the dudes at our shop arent actually that bad

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>>44499269
Here's my story:

>want to get into Modern in 2015
>very small MtG collection with no staples at all
>I can't afford any t1 deck

The end.

>want to get into modern is 2015
>pinch poorfag pennies and buy living end
>get deim8ed by graveyard hard
>still usually top 8 at local shop just because I have a real deck and not a $50 brew someone slapped together at home

although playing the same deck for nearly a year has grown a little stale.

>>44499695
Amulet Bloom costs about the same as LE but is several times more viable.

>>44499821
I scrounged around and found all the cards I needed for LE for $250. mana base was a bit rough but I've updated (added fetches) over time and improved it.

>>44499269
>he is proud of dodging buyouts by buying the shit he needs now
>he sees Magic as investments

You're really not the only one on Earth whose collection value increased with buyouts. Far from it. It's really not that impressive when you take into account EVERYONE ALREADY OWNING THE PIECES made a """profit""".

Modern cards rarely crash. Proven staples always go up. Predicting that doesn't require a psychic.

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did some1 say meme dick

>>44499927
no, I don't believe anyone did. pls go and stay go.

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>>44500125
u just h8 me cuz u aint me

>>44493819
I think it first spiked from $5 to $20 after imperial painter won a couple of legacy events along with all the 8-rack hype at the time.

Skred player here. I'm still on the 'traditional' boros reckoner-style deck, but I've seen a lot of people move to hangarback walker + Pia&Kiran. Hasn't looked particularly impressive from what little I've seen, but what do people think of pia and kira in decks without K's command to loop them with?

>>44497028
can you explain it for me? i'm looking at it but I guess I don't understand what the combo does.

>>44500778
retreat to coralhelm + knight of the reliquary lets you cycle through all of your lands

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Last mandland.

I like it more than any other new one I think.

>>44500824
>I like it more than any other new one I think.
I'm of the mind that they're all shit. Pretty amazed that the BFZ manlands are at least respectable but these have all been piles.

>>44500871
This one seems like the most Modern playable of them all. A 4/4 beater for when Twin has run out of gas.

>>44500897
It's only a 4/4 when you think of it in terms of getting bolts out of your opponent's hand. When your opponent has a 1/2 or larger this is basically nullified- it's horribly sloppy in combat, and isn't much/at all more impressive than most others otherwise.

Being best on an empty board isn't anything to boast about, and it isn't even much better (or just isn't better) than the other lands on that empty board.

>>44500983
>Being best on an empty board isn't anything to boast about
Yes it is because this is a land. Did you ever play UWx control in RTR-THS standard? Mutavaults were literally your win condition.

>>44499895
butthurt.jpeg

>read on reddit how eye of ugins spiked hard because of the eldrazi meme deck
>look on mcm, cards at 7€.
>oh wow, it spiked about 5€
>next day 15€

Its pretty easy to predict things like that here in europe since mcm needs one or two days to catch up to the american spikes.
And still I never buy them. Meh.

>>44501086
Most cards don't even spike like they do for Americans.
Feels good man

>>44498433
Mizzium skin resp to vines. Green stompy is easy for twin to play against.

>>44500824
It's just ok. Won't see modern play I don't think. I do like the concept kind of it being kinda immune to bolts if you're smart with it. Maybe Twin will test it out as a one of.

>>44501149
Not all twin decks run mizzium skin and when they do it's like a 1-of. I agree that green stompy isn't good but you need to try again.

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>>44501086
>eye of ugin is 30$ here in the U.S.

>>44501235
Thoughtseize, take vines. Spell pierce. There's 100 ways fire the twin player to keep rolling on, as long as they're not retarded.

>>44501269
oh you're right, dude. The twin player will definitely win if they have all the answers + the combo and their opponent has nothing. My bad.

>>44501508
Twin doesn't need the combo to win. That's why the deck is so strong.

>>44501556
Yeah I get that but the point of what that other guy said was that vines stops the combo and then you said you could just thoughtseize vines.

>>44500824
5 mana to swing with a 4/1 that can be gutshotted

Literally a piece of shit.

>>44501585
That wasn't me.

>>44501244
>"Don't worry Anon, you don't NEED to pick up Eye of Ugin now, its gonna stay at $7 because its only used in one deck!"

>>44501593

It can't really be gut shotted though

>>44501593
hur durr activate the P/T switch again in response

>>44501706
>>44501716
>Implying I'm not blocking with my 4 power creature already

>>44501733
>moving the goalposts

>>44501716
You gut shot in response to the first switch.

>>44501636
Worst part is is that this is usually the time modern cards are the cheapest.
At least this means I won't see Eldrazi in my meta at all

>>44501760

>you gut shot in response to the first switch

Damn what a fucking retard

>>44501760
>You gut shot in response to the first switch.
so then in response you switch it again

>>44501792
>>44501803
1 damage will be marked on it, when the P/T changed from the original activation to a 4/1 it will die.

>>44501792
>>44501803

actually as long as there is 1 damage marked on the land, it will die as a state based effect as soon as the transformation into 1 toughness resolved

>>44501792
>>44501792
>>44501803

this is the most important thing to know since you cant really swap it in response to a bolt from the initial p/t swap, cause it will eventually become a 4/1 with 3 damage

>Power/toughness switching is complicated, and I anticipate this leading to more than a few judge calls. If your opponent has one of these and tries to make it a 4/1, you should cast your burn spell in response. No matter how many times they switch, eventually your spell will resolve, and this will switch back into a 4/1, at which point it dies. Knowing that timing is important, and should cover most of the cases where this could be tricky.

>>44501803
>Its a 1/4
>"I activate switch"
>"Respond with Gutshot"
>Still a 1/4 on stack
>"W-w-well I a-activate switch a-again Haha...oh no"

>>44501716
>>44501706
>>44501792
>>44501803
Even LSV predicted that most magic players are retarded.
>Power/toughness switching is complicated, and I anticipate this leading to more than a few judge calls. If your opponent has one of these and tries to make it a 4/1, you should cast your burn spell in response. No matter how many times they switch, eventually your spell will resolve, and this will switch back into a 4/1, at which point it dies. Knowing that timing is important, and should cover most of the cases where this could be tricky.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/top-decks/wandering-fumarole-2016-01-01

Get good you fucking retards.

>>44496520
Mind sharing?

>>44501843
/tg/ is good at magic

>>44496689
I dont know if i want to start modern with tron or affinity, they both look fun.
Send help

>>44502301
Tron

>>44502301

Personally speaking for myself, the only deck that's "fun" up in the tier 1 section of that image is Burn, Merfolk and RG Tron. All the other decks are strong and very effective but for me I don't enjoy playing any of them. All the other decks in that image for tier 1 bore me to tears. Then again you might find Burn or Merfolk absolutely boring and no fun so it's all perspective.

>>44502301
affinity is pretty stronk but literally everyone sideboards hate just for you. tron is harder to hate out but it's almost entirely match up based

>>44501086

>MFW I just bought an Eye of Ugin last week for an Eldrazi EDH deck

wew lad

>>44502301
Twin - Can be fun or boring, depending on whether you like to stall or not. Will suck if you don't like to play control though.
Tron - Great if you like to drop fatties, but many matchups ull be a coin toss for you, and anything thats too fast will be hard to win against
Affinity - Very strong and drops its whole hand as early as turn 1. Everyone has sideboard hate against you though.
Burn - Fun if you like to deal damage to the face. Expect every Game 2 and 3 to not be as fun though. Good if you like to play Heart of the Cards.
Bloom - Powerful combo that can win as early as Game 2, but if don't have the cards you don't win, period.
Infect - Powerful combo that can win as early as Game 2, as long as they don't drop a Spellskite. Deal 10 to win in stead of 20.
Jund - All around very powerful, as long as you have the cash to burn.

>>44502526

Should have mentioned it cost me $5.50

>>44501706
>>44501716
>>>/hearthstone/

>>44502586
pls no those ppl bullied me

>>44490819
How do you have trouble with Tron?
Arbiter and Mindcensor shut that shit down hard, and most lists main tectonic edge and ghost quarter

Aren't state based actions checked after the stack is resolved though?

>>44502680

Immediately, they don't use the stack.

>>44502680

No, that would be incredibly stupid and would allow for any number of stupid things

State based actions are checked every time a player gets priority

>>44502689
>>44502691
wait so then why does my creature survive if i cast giant growth on a 1/1 then you dismember and then I cast another growth? when they resolve the creature would have a period where it's a -1/-1, wouldn't state based actions kill it or am i totally wrong?

>>44502370
>>44502421
>>44502435
>>44502534
The main thing im looking for is something that i can grow into and would reward me for playing it well even if the matchup looks bad.

>>44502723
Your creature would die

>>44502744
if they're all cast in response the each other? I thought it would live
ty for clarification anyway tho, i couldn't remember the ruling for it

>>44502734
Jund rewards a good pilot. You have to fight for all your wins as its mostly 50/50 across the board.

>>44502767

You would need to double giant growth in response to dismember

>>44501086
What eldrazi meme deck?

>>44502774
This

Jund doesn't get into bad situations like other decks do. If you're losing as a burn player, you basically lose unless you have a chance to top deck something. Jund on the other hand will rip and tear its way to a win.

>>44502868
eldrazi midrange. got some popularity on MTGO, people started to build it in paper, buyout of ugin's eye and to a lesser extent eldrazi temple occurred.

>>44502868
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11201&d=263657&f=MO

>>44502767
Here's the stack:

Growth
Dismember
Growth

It's caller a "stack" because the newest goes on top and things are popped off the top when there's no response

So:

1/1
Growth
4/4
Dismember
-1/-1 dead
Growth
Fizzles

>>44502941
>>44502921
I see. Well I got the two Uamogs and an Oblivion Sower already - maybe I could give it a shot, except the whole aforementioned Eye of Ugin bullshit

>Eldrazi Temples skyrocketed up to $7 each
>Check my collection
>Somehow can't find any despite opening three MM2 boxes

What the fuck?

>>44503070
Don't. The deck is literally a mix of a much worse Jund and a worse Tron.

>>44502941
Does anyone have a BW decklist? I've been looking for one.

>>44503098
it's neither and you dank meme masters need to stop repeating this.

>>44491140
The time to money versus risk ratio isn't to my taste, magic speculators remind me of Homer Simpson with his giant pile of sugar. Having said that you'll probably make a mild profit.

>>44503058
thanks mate, SBA always confused me

>>44503128
this. dont speculate with fatpacks or other retarded small shits, the profits will be bad.
the eye of ugin/eldrazi temple was kinda obvious tho (altough I didn't buy stuff either).

>>44497195
>/tg/ before they see the deck on the pro tour

This decks looks like shit desu imo

>/tg/ after they see the deck on the pro tour
Th-th-the deck was always good! S-s-seee I told you faggots!

It's Lantern Control all over again

>>44503129
It's the hardest part of Magic. Once you got the stack down, everything comes together

>>44503232
I kind of want it to do well and become a real deck just because the idea of playing Eldrazi in Modern is hilarious.

>>44503232
lantern control is still garbage tho

>>44503158

I bought into them before bfz even came out. As soon as Dominator Drone was spoiled I went 'oh, things like this can come down on t2 with these'. Eye was only 1-2 bucks at the time.

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>>44502526
>mfy when ive been on the fence about foiling the eye in my tron deck for a few weeks

WELP

>>44503394
>Get's first place in a big event

>The deck is garbage

Yeah shut up kid

>>44503287
dunno about that, there was a discussion in the EDH thread about how nobody understands priority. I've played MTG for 4 years, played during INN & RTR standard and I play junk in modern, and I didn't know how priority worked until someone copy pasted it from the comprehensive rules

>>44503327
I'm 99% certain we will see it on the pro tour.

If it does well expect to see the pieces shoot up even more than they already have.

>>44503432
yeah to piggyback off that not only is priority confusing at first, albeit it becomes easier, understandong the reasoning behind common shortcuts is probably just as bad. but worse than virtually anything else is layers becauae of their interactions and jank with timestamp effects. why i'll never become a judge

>>44500824
It's better than any of the new ones but still worse than any of the original ones except the BR one

>>44503539
how does priority play itself out in a game? I've played for years and nobody has ever brought this up

>>44503702
>>44489640

>>44503715
so basically if i'm doing something, nobody else can interrupt? how does that interact with instants?

>>44491992
Glen Elendra is a sb card for the combo matchup

In legacy, I play bug pod nic fit and I run glen elendra main + recurring nightmare and its scary how easy it is to lock someone out of doing relevant things.

>>44503747
yeah homedude has it right up there with the comp rules. but basicalaly when you cast something you on your turn, you have the opportunity as active player to hold priority to activate more abilities or cast more things, each time after casting but bwfore resolution choosing to hold priority. when the active player relinquidhes priority it goes to the inactive player and they can cast things but cannot hold priority. additionally whenever something resolves the active player gains priority and can do stuff. in order for things to reaolve on the stack or ohases a d steps in the turn to pass both players must pass priority.

>>44503747
When you want the spell you just cast to resolve, you pass priority and your opponent can respond.

Bolt your guy, pass or retain priority, cast another spell or your opponent can cast a spell.

>>44503786
>>44503814
so its basically you can do stuff in response to whatever you do and they can't stop it? I'm just thinking about how this works along with the stack

Why doesn't affinity run stain the mind in SB?
Seems perfect for extracting combo pieces or the obvious hate cards.

Would help with twin and the hundreds of Kataki and stony silence being run

>>44503078
>only 1 stinkweed imp from mm1 from 3 drafts and a box
>full playset of path from that one box

Strange things happen.

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>>44492087
faeries runs 2 in the board usually

>>44495949
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pJyOtEzLWo

Ross is completely shook. He can't believe what's happened to him.

>>44497684
I'm hoping that they find something else to play early 2016 or they just go back to school and can't make Modern locals anymore.
>Few nights ago
>30 players
>3-1
>Only loss is against Tron, also won against one
>Should be able to draw in
>Pairings are posted, I got paired down, have to play
>Against fucking Tron again for the third goddamn time that night
I played Tron for a few months when I started Modern, and nobody else was playing it. I legit apologized for having put people through that bullshit.

>>44496056
Don't like losing to graveyard hate

>>44503837
essentially, when you're putting things on the stack, you can say "NO IT'S STILL MY TURN" and keep piling things on before your opponents can respond. they have a chance to respond before anything resolves though.

a lot of people had to learn about priority during ZEN standard when people were confused about why you couldn't bolt JTMS as soon as he hit play before his controller used his +2. because the controller has priority and can declare JTMS's ability before you have priority to bolt him.

>>44502774
I'm an esperfag and my deck feels similarly. Though, I feel more 60/40 vs. fair decks and 40/60 vs. unfair decks, but I never really feel like its "Oh shit I have no hope" even when its some dumb combo deck.

Of course, I have to metagame a lot harder than Jund does, since I'm a lot more reactive than Jund is, but white has like all the gr8 sb cards so its not that hard.

I want to play with fairies! Are they expensive?

>>44503905
God what gorgeous burn gameplay. A truu master of a deck.


>>44503918
Tbh Karn needs to eat a ban. Him on turn 3 is almost game over for most decks.

>>44504113
Post decklist?

>>44504181
http://deckstats.net/deck-8715510-fcd9ee20036216c29cc94f16c59dde67.html

Tinkering with some flex spots, like maindeck leyline and Go for the Throat. In Some metagames, I've considered maindecking Celestial Purge when the meta is zoo/burn/jund.

I love Rest in Peace because I don't like losing to dumb graveyard decks.

Consume the Meek is a pet card of mine, but its really good vs. manlands.

>>44504173
Yes

It's a ~$1000 deck

Unfortunately it requires 3x Snaps, 4x Vendillion Clique, 4x Cryptic Command and some other expensive staples.

You could probably go budget on some of the lands,but you're still looking at $600 budget version

>People speccing on Eldrazi Temple even though it has a soft price cap because of the Duel Deck
>Not speccing on Blight Herder and Wasteland Strangler which are the lynchpins of the deck

It's like QS is a community full of idiots.

>>44504173
Fairies is a worse and more expensive memedeck than eldrazi.

Is this seriously everyone's first buyout? Eye of Ugin will settle at like $12-15 and Eldrazi Temple will go back to $2-4 soon. Eldrazi Temple was literally reprinted TWICE in 2015 and at uncommon in MM2.

Eye of Ugin was reprinted at rare in MM2. It can't go much higher than $15. Besides, you gotta find stores willing to pay that much for a one-of in Tron and a three-of in a casual deck. And it's even harder to find people to sell it to at this price (literally everyone knows the price will decay shortly).

>ur just mad

Nope. I play Tron and my WWK Eye of Ugin is comfortably tutoring Ulamogs at home. I'm just reminding everyone that Eye of Ugin won't be a $30 card for long (especially if Eldrazi fails to get results, which honestly is a realistic expectation after playing against it several times: it's a budget deck).

>>44491018
>Invisible stalker. They won't see it coming
Literally the John Cena of Infect.

>>44503905
I never got why at the start of the game Ross didn't cast the Jitte instead of getting the Arbor. Patrick would do the same play next turn (if he doesn't then mom lives which is amazing) which would leave Ross open to equip Jitte, swing, kill lavamancer and heal 2 before the vortex comes down putting him ahead by alot.

>>44504323
I've had a lot of success with it. And it's really fun to play.

If you can get a blitterblossom down early you can counter just about anything you want while still filling out the board.

It's really too bad it's so expensive

>>44504410
Just goes to show how much of a brow-sweater it is to play burn.

>>44504181
Ugin is way more difficult to deal with than Karn.
I can play through a turn 3 Karn some times, but whenever Ugin hit's the field, it's over.

>>44490592
Monastery Mentor is great in Legacy and Vintage. I used it instead of Young Pyromancer and the results were pretty good

>>44504173
Its an expensive deck thats terrible to play against the current meta.

>>44504248
How do you like logic knot?

>>44504487
DESU i haven't played against much tron recently because no one at my meta plays it, I just know how disgusting it is to get turn 3 Karn eat your land.

>>44504487
Ugin is bad but at least he drops on turn 4 at its earliest.
Turn 3 Karn is worst imo, and even moreso if its followed up by another threat next turn.

>>44504535
Its Delve Counterspell. I love it. I started with 2. Moved up to 3. Still loved it. Moved to 4 and I'm still satisfied.

Logic Knot serves several functions that aren't obvious at first. One, its cheap interaction that's live starting from turn 2. As long as I have a decent yard, knot is most likely turned on.

I also play more lands than other decks do, so I'm likely to have more lands in play, so I don't even need to delve for Knot to counter something.

Also, in the late game you can animate Collonade, swing and then hold up double blue to represent Logic Knot, so when your opponent tries to resolve something backbreaking you can still snipe it. This is important because the easiest way to lose in UWx is to animate Collonade, swing but then the other guy resolves something nasty on you.

Also, in a format as fast as modern just being able to counter stuff on turn 2 is so important.

Like, against aggro being able to go t1 Collonade -> t2 hold up Spell Snare Path -> turn 3 hold up logic knot, if they don't do anything cast charm and draw some cards, etc.

I find myself far outspending my opponents on mana with this deck. Its pretty rare I don't have something to do on the end step.

>>44503869
faeries run 4, is the engine

>>44504814
He's not talking about Blitterblossom. Read the reply chain

>>44503869
Faeries run 4 in main, it supposedly makes the engine work, that and 4 sss, 4 mistbind, 4 mutavault and 4 cryptic.

For what it's with I don't like them, I think sss delivers value even without it, it his a decent number of spells on is own and with a self animated vault hits near everything.

>>44504915
Durr, misread the comment as did the other guy.

what're the chances wizards makes a not-shit kinda pushed u/g anything ever?

You know what would be hilarious?

An 8ED and 9ED ban.

>Blood Moon
>Summer Bloom
>Choke
>Boil (and Boiling Seas)
>URZATRON

Best part is that Jund STILL wouldn't be broken because it has a shit ton of different linear strategies to beat (aka Tron isn't the only thing keeping Jund down).

I'm a multideckfag (own Affinity + Tron + BGx + URx + GWx) and it would honestly make this format fresh for the Pro Tour. I am legitimately willing to part with Karn and Ugin for such a change (already parted with Pod last year, I have come to accept that Modern decks can be banned if it makes the format healthier overall).

Best part is: it's not entirely impossible. This COULD happen and it's not as unlikely as you think. The alternative is banning the cards mentioned above (individually) in order to save Kird Ape or whatever. And I suppose Wizards could print an Eldrazi Urzatron that totals to 6 instead of 7 (making T3 Karn and T4 Ulamog things of the past) if they feel Tron is fun for Modern.

>>44504967
Simic had some decent toys in RTR block, their charm was particularly decent

>>44505007
banning all of tron is unnecessary, really the only broken thing that deck can push is turn 3 karn simply because it's soo strong for such a play, especially when they are on the play. Banning Karn would be a lot more healthier for the meta than just outright banning the deck. If that is actually good for modern is different as well
>>44505021
Yeah but that really didn't make u/g/x a thing in modern

>>44505007
I've heard rumors of this for a while, talked it over with friends and shit. It doesn't actually kill anything but Tron, and Blood Moon would still be legal because it was printed in a modern border in MM1.
Not the worst idea, I'd be okay with it

>>44505048
UGx needs removal that isn't bounce to be a thing

I guess you could run UG delver with a really low land count, but RUG delver just seems better

>>44505101
Neither MM1 nor MM2 are modern legal

>>44505101
MM isn't listed as a set legal in modern. It's comprised entirely of modern legal cards but the set does not make it's cards legal in modern format

>>44505101
>would still be legal because it was printed in a modern border
Like Animate Dead and Brainstorm?

>>44505117
More specifically they don't grant legality, the cards are modern playable if legal

>>44504967
I want u/g to be a thing so bad. Kiora plz

>>44505117
>>44505130
EZ fix then, say "all cards printed in MM are legal for modern"
Or just get rid of blood moon whatever

>>44505149
Yes my favorite two modern staples

>>44505007
>"The Urza Tron decks have recently started using Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and, most recently, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Alongside turn 3 Karn Liberated, the deck has proven to be very powerful and pushes out non-linear strategies out of the format. R&D wants to creature new Eldrazi cards without having the worry of making Urza Tron better. For this reason, the DCI has decided to ban Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine and Urza's Power Plant from the Modern format. Hopefully this change will increase the number of non-linear decks for the Pro Tour and the format as a whole."

>>44505162
>EZ fix then, say "all cards printed in MM are legal for modern"
>Or just get rid of Blood Moon whatever
No. Not at all. That directly contradicts the founding purpose of modern. Modern was made as a format that allowed players to be able to play with their cards from stardard in a non-rotating format. They said any card entering modern comes in through standard. What you're suggesting does the opposite of that.

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>>44505007
>Wizards could print an Eldrazi Urzatron that totals to 6 instead of 7
Oh yes, I could TOTALLY see this being standard legal

>>44505007
To be honest, Blood Moon has no place in Modern (leave this card to Legacy players) and banning it makes Tron and Amulet Bloom busted. This ban is 100% legit.

>>44504725
depends of the esper deck you playin'
i play with gifts and is no worth, but in draw go, that i played i found 2 are the best

>>44505112
Yeah rug delver is just better with bolt. I think u/g needs shardless agent to be good in modern, or at least a 2-for-1 kind of card. If the new command cycle was enemy colours there might have been a chance

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>>44500824
Even if the mana activation was 3 instead of 4 the U/R based decks in modern (which are mostly combo) would still rather play desolate lighthouse. That said this looks very good in standard as fewer things counteract it as effectively, any deck that plays this can play dispel and swinging for 4 power is no joke.

>>44505219
Without Expedition Map + Eggs granting color for Sylvan Scrying + Karn, it doesn't feel that broken in Standard.
>but Ugin and Ulamog
Well yeah, the deck can't ramp into nothing. They cost 8 and 10 and they're not easy to get on turn 4-5 in such a Standard environment.
>but Conduit of Ruin and Oblivion Sower
Cool, we now have a non-Tarkir deck in Standard.

Dammit I want this now.

>>44505007
How to beat karn before t3:
t2: black land, thoughtseize
the end
Tron is in no way format wraping, its more wraping twin, and i think baning splinter twin will be good, but people hates that

>>44504410
Jitte costs 3 mana with Thalia out. He only had 2 available.

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>>44505310
>Thoughtseize one Karn
>They top deck another
>Thoughtseize that as well
>They top deck an Ugin

>>44505331
if they do that, you were gonna lose anyways, luck is part of the game, does you like it or not

>>44505254
The issue I had with gifts is that you had cards you had to run that were only good once you had the combo set up and were clunky otherwise. I didn't like that. Draw-go has hands that just run more smoothly in my experience. Think Twice/Esper Charm do a lot to smooth draws and hit land drops.

The issue I ran into with only 2 logic knots is that I always wanted more interaction that could stop people cold. 2 was good, but I wanted more than that.

>>44505408
the problem i found with 4 is that it competes with itself for the delve cost, i always like to have 1 mana fo counter wars (dispel/spell snare) and if i didn't have cards in the graveyard to exile it was not that good.

>>44505310
That's true. Thank goodness this particular play makes Tron an easy matchup for Jund.

>but Thoughtseize isn't Jund-exclusive

Abzan stinks against Tron too. Grixis too and most run Inquisition instead. Affinity has no purpose running Thoughtseize against Tron post-board. The other decks don't play Thoughtseize.

Just because you *can* Thoughtseize Karn to prevent the T3 Karn doesn't mean the deck isn't full of bullshit that's toxic for the format.

>>44504259
It's funny how it isn't viable, but so expensive. If Stoneforge got unbanned it would be more viable.

>>44505464
>you can surgical extract the one you made discard
>if he cast it on exact turn 3, mana leak and logic knot can counter it
>Oblivion ring, anyone?
>After turn 3, Cryptic command
>there is always that shit called hero's downfall if you hate karn so much

Yeah, you can't stop, never. it's so OP

there are lots of answers, just stop being

>>44505552
Such a faggot*

UGx is a thing in Modern. Goyf, Snapcaster, Pyromancer, and Delver are your damage, and Bolt is your reach.

>>44505552
>a card can be removed, therefore it's balanced

Thanks, chummer, I've never thought about it that way. Guess I'll run 4 Vampire Hexmages in Jund now!

>>44501816
That's why you leave it at a 1/4 and laugh at your opponent wasting a draw step on marking a point of damage on your land.

>>44505552
Okay class, this is the prime example of a hook. This particular hook usually comes attached with food, which we call bait, to attract fish into biting it. However, this example lacks a bait. But some fish are dumb enough to bite anyway.

The solution is to ignore the hook and go elsewhere.

>>44505569
do you have deck list links? would want to try

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>>44505552
As a Tron player I will say O-Ring is REALLY BAD against tron we have 4-5 main deck answers to it and natures claims in the board.

Hero's downfall with snapcaster actually sounds kinda scary lets hope no one plays those cards together

The issue with Surgical extraction against tron is even if you get ride of karn we have eye of ugin to search up multiple creature threats some of which are 1 ofs and hard to hit with surgical. I've personally never lost to surgical extraction though i've had it cast on karn a few times.

>>44505552
>Literally suggesting people play Downfall

The card sees no play in modern for a reason.

Also, thoughtseize does nothing if they can just stirrings for Karn and play it on the same turn.

>>44505610
It's just RUG Delver m8. You play threats and protect them just long enough to push lethal through.

>>44505613
>Hero's downfall with snapcaster actually sounds kinda scary lets hope no one plays those cards together

Now I know you're a bad tron player. Downfall is literally unplayable in modern and you're suggesting it with Snapcaster Mage? /tg/ really is bad at magic.

>>44505552
>Opponent drops Karn then exiles your Goyf
>You respond with Downfall
>He's lost a Karn
>You've lost a Goyf and a Downfall

There's a reason people laughed at Downfall when it was spoiled, then cried when it hit 10 dollars in the face of all logic. It's barely better than Murder.

>>44505642
I'm not saying they run it as a 4 of but having 1 in the deck if the Tron player is on low resources turns into one of low resources could be a very strong answer. Also if the player is trying to do anything broken downfall also kills our spellskites.

>>44505663
Instead of hoping you can answer the Karn, I recommend just Thoughtseizing it out of his hand. Thoughtseize is considered the best black spell ever printed for a reason.

>>44504056
This is the best definition/explanation so far, thanks for that

>>44505663
Okay, take a look at all the decks in modern

how many run planeswalkers

BGx is basically the only deck other than tron, and BGx only plays Lilly. Downfalling a Lilly is a bad play, because the BGx player will already get an edict out of it first.

I get that you're used to shitting out mana like its nothing, but for most modern decks removal that costs more than 1-2 mana is bad. That sounds ridiculous to some, but if the threats you're killing are cheaper than your removal, then the card is bad. Now, a lot of modern's premiere threats are 2 mana or less. That means downfall is going to trade down every time you cast it. Hell, I don't even think 2 mana removal spells are that good.

>>44505699
Thoughtseize does nothing about tron's cantrips/digging cards. You can just stirrings, find Karn/Ugin and keep the gravy train going. Thoughtseize is only good against tron if you can follow it up with an efficient threat to put a clock on them. Thoughtseize by itself will just annoy Tron slightly.

>>44505663
what needs to be in modern is a black or a green Back to Basics functional reprint. Blood moon doesn't stop the pain train from tron cause they can just keep playing lands but if they don't untap then they are actually fucked

>>44505699
>>44505730
I agree with what your saying. And i think cards like bloodmoon is a better sideboard card against tron than hero's downfall I just like to think about what it would be like playing against it.

Ya obviously that's better, what I was trying to say and fumbled getting out its paying 1 extra mana for versatility in a bad match up isn't horrible and when you have an answer none is going to play around it can get you wins.

>>44505736
Plz no back to basics T_T

>>44505730
>Thoughtseize does nothing about tron's cantrips/digging cards
It does more than Downfall does. Go ahead, build up a threatening board with that Downfall in your handOH SHIT UGIN JUST -4'D YOUR ENTIRE BOARD IS GONE IN RESPONSE I'LL DOWNFALL HIM THROUGH ALL OF THESE TEARS IF ONLY I WAS RUNNING HAND DISRUPTION INSTEAD OF A CARD THAT DOES NOTHING THAT MAELSTROM PULSE DOESN'T DO BETTER

Just picked up fish. How soon board against robots? 2 recall doesn't seem like it will be enough. I have a ratchet bomb, revoker/needle, and another quarter.

>>44505763
Its a lot better than downfall, but Thoughtseize is kind of poor against allmycardsdothesamething.dec

Thoughtseize's best strength is poking a hole in someone's strategy, and then utilizing that window to put someone on the back foot and put a lot of pressure on them.

If you just thoughtseize karn but don't do anything, they'll find another and kill you. Hand disruption always needs to be backed up with a clock to be good. This is because discard spells are negative tempo, you're spending mana a card to deal with a card your opponent spend no mana on. That's usually bad, but you have a window to punish your opponent's weakness.

>>44505842
GBx can't put a fast enough clock on Tron anyway, which is why the matchup is pretty heavily favoured for Tron.

>>44505870
Exactly. I play UWx control and the hands where Jund goes t1 thoughtseize, t2 thoughtseize, but doesn't follow it up with a threat I always beat because I can just draw out of that.

It doesn't help that most people don't know how to play thoughtseize correctly anyway.

>People pissing off cuz tron us good against fair decks like jund/junk
>In a formar that his rates of victory are highly match up dependant
>knowing that the deck is shit against control
That's why tg sucks at Magic

>>44505895
>It doesn't help that most people don't know how to play thoughtseize correctly anyway.

The amount of times Jund played a thoughtseize and I was like "Oh shit I hope he doesn't take x" and the jund player just takes something else that doesn't hurt me at all makes me shake my head.

>>44505949
>knowing that the deck is shit against control

Tron is like, 90% favored against control what are you smoking

>>44505949
>tg can't into matchups
makes sense

>>44505968
>tfw lost a ptq because in game three I thoughtseized and took the wrong card

>>44506005
what was the scenario

I love going over "what should you thoughtseize" scenarios

I can't think of a single benefit from banning Karn beyond helping to dry up the bitch tears.

>>44506045
I don't even care about karn in tron. Wurmcoil, o stone and Ugin are all way more annoying.

Karn isn't the problem. The package is the problem. Having to beat consistently early-mid Karn + Ugin + Wurmcoil + Ulamog + Eye is the problem.

Twin isn't even favored anymore.

>>44506094
Good? Twin is degenerate

>>44506214
Twin is the police deck of modern. If twin didn't exist modern would be nothing but turn 3 decks that don't care to interact

>>44506043
Final round of a ptq (standard, Theros/Khans) I was on Abzan (Yeah I played that deck, idgaf, built it when it rhino was spoiled and loved that people joined my gravy train when they knew how good it was. I ran all the goofy-est things, like 4 rakshasa deathdealer over fleecemane lion and it was unreal good. Watched a rakshasa have to be chump blocked by sagu mauler that day, killed people with him so many times. Was actually one of the strongest parts of the deck and I remember having an arguement the day after the ptq with some people on tg cause they were saying rakshasa was shit and fleecemane was better.) and opponent was playing jeskai tempo (first time I had ever actually seen the deck so it was a total basket of surprises for me)

>game one I get mana screwed and he wins it. Did however see he was running lots of burn, goblin rabblemaster and elspeths for late game reach, also figured he would have sideboard keranos for this matchup.
>game two he stumbles on mana and I play three siege rhinos, one after another which was just too backbreaking to recover from, couldn't even jeskai charm them away.
>game three
>opening hand was 3 lands, whip of erebos (secret tech for the mirror (whip back rhino or wingmate roc for insane value)) I threw it in because it gave all my guys lifelink to counter all the burn this guy was running as well as give me plenty of reach late game, 2 rhinos, 3 lands and a thoughtseize
>He's on the play, drops a scry land and passes, I do the same
>next turn draw an Elspeth and thoughtseize him. He has 2 counters, goblin rabblemaster, and lands.
Cont. sorry for how long this is, didn't expect to actually write it out. What do you guys take in this senario?

>>44506290
rabblemaster probably but i've never played standard

>>44506290
Rabblemaster if you had no other answers to it.

If you did then one of the counterspells.

>>44506365
>>44506365

New thread

>>44506290
Rabblemaster.

He has counters sure, but without Rabblemaster he has no clock. You'll have to grind through the counters, but you have the ultimate trump card in Elpseth and another in Whip. If you resolve either one you probably win on the spot. Let him counter your Rhinos and just drop one of your bombs when his defenses are down.

>>44506214
>Twin is degenerate
lol. just lol.

>>44506360
>>44506336
>>44506394
Fuck me. Sorry, I am on the play in game three, I won game one, he won game 2. I was on the play in game three. Big switch cause of that

>>44506457
That means you obviously still want to hit rabblemaster. Either he does nothing and passes with no rabblemaster, or he topdecks a threat and plays it, in which case you can safely drop whip/rhino. Either way, you want to remove his clocks, which makes his burn worse.

>>44505590
If Gutshot is cast in response to the first activation, then there is no way to leave it as a 1/4. When everything resolves, Fumarole becomes a 4/1 with one damage and dies. If you activate Fumarole again in response to the Gutshot, it will become a 4/1 with one damage and die before the first activation resolves.

>>44506290
Sorry it was a while ago guys.
Anyway, I thoughtseize him and I take the rabblemaster. I figured I can grind through the counters, drop whip and whip back rhinos for a solid win.
So I do that. However, because I was on the play I should have just dropped one of the counters. If he taps out for rabblemaster turn 3 I untap on turn 4 and drop a rhino that can chump the token all day and then I have a very reasonable body guaranteed
I ended up drawing a few lands more than I wanted and when I went to land whip on turn six thinking he's out of counters...... and he counters, untaps and drops elspeth and makes 3 1/1s. I untap play my elspeth and make bodies. This was kinda the beginning of the end for me. We both get wingmate rocs out and at one point I have sad sorin making more bodies and buffing but that elspeth dropping on an open board one turn before me was just too much. Had I had rhino I could have knocked out her bodies and then my own elspeth's soldiers would finish the job. It was a fantastic game and I'm in no way salty about it. I lost because I made a wrong thoughtseize after driving out to this ptq at 5am, having decided to go at midnight the night before while drinking, literally building my deck on the drive down. Also got a sick playmat out of it so I'm very happy

>>44506766
That's just a case of him drawing like a fucking champ.

Alternatively, if you take 1 counter, he still has one left and he doesn't have to tap out for Rabblemaster immediately, he can hold up a counter and then wait for you to tap out for rhino/whip, counter that then drop Rabblemaster.

>>44506834
I wouldn't say drawing Elspeth was that insane because he probably brought them in but him getting a turn on me in tempo based decks really fucking hurt

>>44506989
I can't imagine he had any more than just 1 elspeth in the side though.

I think taking the rabblemaster was right, it just didn't work out.

>>44506630
Explaining this is just going to eat clock

>>44502658
It's a 50/50 matchup. Sometimes I demolish them, but other times I don't see any of my 4 GQ or 2 Tec Edges soon enough, or I see them right after a timely pyroclasm, etc. It's not an AWFUL matchup but it can be rough since a lot of cards aren't really relevant against them pre-board. And God forbid if I ever see an Ugin.

>>44507613
Gaddock Teeg keeps them off Karn and Ugin.
Pyroclasm is a big problem if you don't have Burrenton Forge-tender on board though, it gives me fits.

>>44505007
Im the anon that was asking about tron vs affinity as my first and probably only modern deck for a while, any recommendations or opinions between the two?