Exalted General

So I'm starting my first campaign soon and I'm split on whether I want to use a Longfang or a Direlance. Is one particularly better than the other? Are the benefits of Reach, Two-Handed, and being able to use it while mounted worth getting a Direlance over a Longfang?

>>44478513
Direlance also has +1 Defense and Overwhelming, and +2 Damage, over a Longfang, at the price of -2 Accuracy.

Really, though, the question is: Would your character ever throw his spear? If yes, take a Longfang, if no, take a Dire Lance.(And, of course, whichever one gives you the stats you'd prefer.)

>>44478814
Wait, nyx that +1 Defense. My bad. I thought they were light and medium, not medium and heavy, for some reason.

>>44478814
Alright then, don't plan on throwing my spear ever, so I'll probably be going with the Direlance then. Figured I'd ask because the few times I've popped in here, a lot of people have talked like the lighter the weapon is, the better.

>>44478945

that's the white room talk of "more successes vs defense = more dice to roll in post-soak" which isn't necessarily always true

yeah, it's a safe bet, but there's not much of a problem in just picking what'd suit you over what's the most optimal in getting sheer numbers out

>>44478270
>Shitposting and buyer's remorse edition

>Also always remember Morke and Holden are liars

And I was hoping that shit had stopped. Guess the idiots were just off for the holidays.

So what did Mercury deliver to YOUR Cold Season Festival Pinetree?

Hey /exg/ I want to make a blacksmith character who uses a big-ass goremaul in a fight. What I want to know is if there's a Martial Arts style I can take or if I have to transfer one from 2. If it's the latter, which one should I tackle?

I've had an idea floating at the back of my head for a while of a sort of exalted based, but also heavily Tron/Megaman Battle Network style setting...

Make primordials self-aware networks with many lesser programs making up the greater whole, sidereals as hackers, dragon blooded as PCs in a sort of MMO/LARP hybrid played across the web, Infernals as empowered human agents of the networks and so forth.

It needs a lot of work I guess, but it's a loose concept.

How do the limits on which martial arts can I learn without a sensei work? I mean, i know Solars can learn the Solar Hero and Snake by themselves, but does that work like that with any Celestial art? If I take the first charm or so of an art, can I learn the rest by myself?

>>44481243
All MA except Sidereal can be learn in the nature. Sidereal MA needs to be learn from a Sensei.

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>>44481058
Huh, sounds p. fucking cool

>>44480987

Jade Mountain Style from 2e. IIRC, much of Earth Dragon Style made it into the core in the antagonists section and also uses a goremaul.

>>44481366
How would you a Inkling?

>>44481581
Jade Mountain is in the scroll of the monk right?

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>>44481681

>>44481796
Yeah it was a TMA in it

>>44480886
Fuck off Holden this ain't your hugbox

>>44482159
No, but it is a place where you can discuss the game without just having a tantrum about the devs.

>>44482236
Yeah, you can, but having a tantrum about the devs is fun so why would you want to?

>>44482263
A lot of people grow out of that kind of thing.

>>44482236
Ok holden

>>44482236
Nobody is having a tantrum except the guy(you?) getting anally devastated by the forced "Holden and Morke are liars" meme

>>44482277
Sounds like you're a square, man.

>>44482282
Nah, I'm a different guy. I just enjoyed the absence of the shitty memes for a while.

>>44482322
Cry some more, Holden.

>>44482322
>Shitty


>implying it's not the dankest meme

>>44482333
I know this is taking you no thought or effort, and you're probably no very invested in this meme - but it still seems weird to use it to shut down discussion in something you're presumably interested in.

Do you spam here just because you love to hate it, or is this just dank memes for you?

>>44482366
You're not discussing anything, you're just complaining about memes, Holden. Grow some thicker skin and we can talk about whatever you like.

>>44482366
Stop stealing all the dubs fag and go back to the big purple normie scum

>>44482390
>Stop stealing all the dubs fag
No.

Do Sidereal have same memory stuff as Solars?
What about Lunar?

Well, it was pretty surreal to discover that not only do the exalted devs talk openly on the net, but that they're unspeakable cocks.

Then again, the books do have rape as every third word.

>>44482455
The left over memories from previous Exaltation holders?

Yes to both, Ayesha's whole reason for turning to the Gold Faction was because of them. In 2e at least.

>>44482516
>WW
>not being dipshits

pick one and only one.

I kid tho, there's like 2 or three decent guys but the rest are trash and in charge of the bulk of the writing.

In a perfect world Exalted would be written by the niggas that did Dudes of Legend

>>44482625
It's unfair to tar all of White Wolf with Exalted's shit. nWoD has been really good and transparent, generally speaking.

>>44481058

Hmm, in relevance to this: I Imagine you could prolly convert She Who Lives In Her Name to a pretty good internet handle with a bit of a tweak.

>>44482679
>implying SWILLIN isn't already a good handle

>>44482455

Yeah, all celestial exaltations do. The three "Main" types get their shards cleaned by Lytek between incarnations, I honestly can't recall what the deal with Abyssals is, and Infernals have ALL the memories of their past life, because absolutely nothing at all could go wrong with giving the guys who have access to all the most vital parts of your escape plan the chance to suddenly get possessed by the memories of their first age self who probably fought against you in the War. IIRC, Alchemicals get memories of the mortal existences they went through prior to being catalyzed or whatever.

Terrestrial's get nothing, but they also get the chance to breed true and can actually use their powers without people freaking out, so fuck them.

>>44482701

No it is, but you could prolly make it even more fitting by making it a little tongue in cheek or self deprecative, since that's how people tend to name their online personas when they aren't Darkshadohdghg69.

Reposting the Sidereal home-brew for anyone who missed it last thread.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15dK8fZaL-Kn-yGKxW6VRg_z6aF27FqbIf-t8ZEXmMC4/edit

Are there any better ways than full awareness excellency + sensory acuity prana to get totemic anima before your first turn?

>>44482734
>Bureaucracy caps at e3.
Why do you make the Maidens hate us?

>>44483033
To incentivise SMA?

>>44483033

Because you should have the 333rd Celestial Daimyo Heavenly Understudy of Paperwork as your secretary or something?

So wait, does Exalted 3 only have Solar rules again?

>>44483231
Solar and mortals.

>>44483262

Ugh, Solars have always been the least interesting faction.

>>44483231
Yes. Obviously the core book can't include everything, and even if we don't consider any Exalt type more central to the game than any other, Solars make the most sense as the core book splat because there isn't really much Solar-specific fluff, which means there's more room for general setting introduction.

>>44483279
Well that's, like, your opinion man.

>>44483279
>>44483231
The developers are jews so they're going to make a dozen books again for each Exalt type and sell them all separately.

>>44482390
>big purple

RPGPundit? What are you doing here?

>>44483399

Making it rain dubs here

>>44483383
Yeah, those fuckers: Making massive books full of character options.

>>44483383
Yeah, they should just make it one book. It would only be some thousands of pages. That's nothing!

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>>44482669
I'm still lolling that Exalted 3E ended up as good as it did in spite of all the dev drama, while it was the nWoD people who squeezed out the turd that was Beast the Primordial and acted like it was their proudest accomplishment.

Between this and David Hill fucking with Changeling the Lost to get on his soap-box, I think we got the better end of the deal.

>>44483482
>Between this and David Hill fucking with Changeling the Lost to get on his soap-box
???

>>44483383

Yeah, it's not like the castes are hugely different in any exalt type I've seen. Less "Bard/Cleric/Wizard" and more you get different affinities for skills and shit.

You could pretty easily fit in bare bones coverage of a couple exalt types in the core, and flesh them out with later splats.

>>44483518
It's about EMPOWERMENT now, you see.

The game where you are victimized by the closest thing the WoD has to a God, forever looking over your shoulder for it as you try to rebuild the shambles it made out of your life, is now about BEING EMPOWERED.

>>44483548
I... what? It did have rape survivor vibes (super heavily) but it was a game about trying to survive and forming support groups, living with PTSD and trying not to become your abuser.

Where does the empowerment come in?

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>>44483599

>>44483297
It could. Not with the current design philsoophy, but if OP hired competent designers to make Exalted, it could have.

>>44483231

Hi, you must be new to White Wolf Products.

>>44482723

>I honestly can't recall what the deal with Abyssals is.

IIRC, Abyssal shards get dipped into Oblivion, which cleanses them of the past memories, they can also be placed in sunlight which does the same thing.

>>44483695

There's a difference between "Competent" and "sane".

Even systems that give multiple options tend to have a core book with just rules. I mean look at the fucking size of the charm chapter.

Of course you're a troll, so feel free to label me a faggot and call me wrong. After all it is you right to do so.

>>44483695
>Competent designers
Translation: Designers who make the rules-light games I like.
Not actually defending the devs here, but your opinion isn't fact.

>>44483695
Not really? It'd only be possible in a game that's super rules light, not to mention the fact that unlike Solars (who are relative blank slates), every other splat has a bunch of lore related widgets that require further explanation. Sidereals, for example, *need* to have the Celestial Bureaucracy and the Loom of Fate explained in detail, Abyssals *need* to have the Deathlords detailed, etc. etc.

How does Solar Anima bleaching work?

>>44483754
Charms a shit
A SHIT

Seriously if they went with more intelligent ways of handling powers and splat gimmicks they wouldn't need to burn 100 pages to what amounts to add more dice to your pool

>>44483835
Oh god, the opinions.

>>44483835
idk, stuff like Seasoned Criminal Method is pretty cash and amounts to way more than extra dice.

I mean, a game where there were only excellencies would be pretty bare-bones tactically.

>>44483860
Ok Holden

>>44483889
Gracious, what a meigh-meigh!

>>44483861
Seasoned Criminal Method isn't a stupid dice trick double 9s reroll 6s reroll 1s +3 autosux though. It has an actually interesting effect. If I was guessing, I'd guess the Charms are 50/50 something interesting and something boring as hell.

>>44483835

Oh you're one of those types. Let me mock you while I can.

Exalted is never going to radically move away from the charm paradigm, and for every person who thought otherwise I will laugh at them.

Go back to FATE, is suits your kind more.

/exg/ I need your help. I have really hard time trying to actually create character for the new eidtion.

Every time I try to start with a concept first and than build around it my build ends up being completely ineffective due to HMMs (Hidden Mandatory Minimums) and every time I try to make an effctive build and extrapolate a character from it it ends up contrived and extremely one-dimensional.

How do I go about this? Am I doing something wrong or is this edition just shit?

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>>44483861
>Exalted
>tactics

>>44483929
Not really 50/50, but there are a handful of those dice adder charms in every tree though.

>>44483941
Can you explain what you mean? How are you failing to make the character you want to make?

>>44483941

Give me some of the concepts.

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>>44483938
>Defending terrible mechanics
>liking the taste of shit in your mouth'
H

O K

L

D

E

N

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>>44483948
>I haven't even glanced at the game I am criticizing

Amazing.

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>>44483297
>Obviously the core book can't include everything

Where there's will there's a way.

>>44478270
I swear that picture is goddamn Duelmasters card.

>>44482734
Is this any good? Don't have time to check it out right now, but I'd cream myself for a good sid homebrew.

>>44484021
It's certainly not an Exalted picture, if that's what you were thinking. The copyright at the bottom is WoTC.

>>44484010

Yes, because radically changing how a game works from the very premise worked out so well for other games like DnD. I mean look at 3.5e and 4e...

Oh...

>>44483835
Again, if they actually had a competent designing team that would come up with an innovative system to encapsulate the feeling the game is supposed to convey, we could have that.

Except we don't have competent designers, we have a bunch of boobs who are barely above fan-fiction writters in that they don't actually udnerstand how to design systems, but can only play around changing parts of the Storyteller system. Granted, they have a rather intimate understanding of it (which makes the shit like xp/bp divide that much more insulting), but they aren't actual designers. They are glorified lego-builders is what they are.

>>44484012
Sadly, real life isn't a fantasy story, and sometimes there just is no way regardless of the amount of will involved.

>>44484046
But 4e was the best edition of DnD ever. Not exactly a good example to defend your point.

>>44484010

Ha ha what it's been three years and he's still using that fucking hamtaro avatar?

>>44484046
>dipshit grogs with bad taste have bad taste

>>44484091
He's using a slightly different one now, based on Volfer.

>>44484085
>Again, if they actually had a competent designing team that would come up with an innovative system to encapsulate the feeling the game is supposed to convey, we could have that.
How, exactly, would that be achieved? I mean, even the most competent of people can't do everything, and just claiming that competent people could achieve a given thing without offering any suggestions about how they might achieve it isn't exactly a strong argument.

>>44484097
He's so gay, oh my God.

>>44484089

The Exalted 3e audience everyone!

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>>44484091
He still uses that one for his twitter
>>44484097
you mean pic related?
>Inb4 picture for ants
I know it's tiny but I don't care enough to find a larger picture

>>44484085

Honestly though, if the Exalted devs wrote Beast the Primordial, it really would be way less of a shit-show, even if it did use bp/xp.

What element was the Scarlet Empress again?

>>44484182
In 2E, I think Earth. In 1E and 3E, who knows?

>>44484157
But... I like D&D 4E and Exalted 3E too. What even is the point being made.

>>44484182
Earth, but the RotSE write-up says she's taken the charm that gives you extra elements 4 times to get all the rest

>>44484182

All of them

>>44484089

Which turned out to be such a failure with so many people going over to Pathfinder they had to make 5e as a "hey guys we're really DnD! Please come back!

They made the mistake of trying to appeal to a wider audience at the cost of alienating their core group. When the casuals moved on (as they always do) you're left with a product with not even remotely close the amount of people it had before. Only difference is you won't have curious casuals going "Oh this is the DnD thing? I'll look into it" and instead going "WTF is Exalted, I heard about DnD."

Retaining the core audience by not alienating old players is more important while at the same time making the game a bit broader to people new to Exalted.

>>44484192
>>44484196
>Scarlet Empress
>Scarlet
>Earth element
wtf.

>>44484193

That you have shit taste. 3.5 master race. And we will wait for a good edition of Exalted. Exalted 4e when?

>>44484193
The point was to make vague implications because that's easier than actually thinking of something worthwhile to say.

>>44484209
It's like fire aspects don't have exclusive rights to the color red, mang.

She's a red-headed earth aspect. Like how Ejava is a red-headed wood aspect.

>>44484214
>3.5 is inarguably superior
>>44484095
>dipshit grogs have bad taste for not liking 4E

??? Just stick to a gimmick, mang.

>>44484207
>Which turned out to be such a failure with so many people going over to Pathfinder they had to make 5e as a "hey guys we're really DnD! Please come back!
It did not "turn out to be such a failure." Wizards never published their sales, but the number of subscribers for D&D Insider alone had to have raked in enormous piles of cash. It did not make as much money as expected because WotC had unreasonable expectations. Pathfinder made enough money for the smaller company that made it.

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>>44484209
Sometimes a color is just a color

>>44484252
Part of it was also that D&D Essentials turned people off of 4E, and was a bad idea to begin with because it made everything confusing.

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>>44484086
That's a real book right there. It should fit all of Exalted with plenty of room to spare.

>>44484278
What I want to know is, how do you even begin reading that monstrosity.

>>44484242

I think the guy defending 4e was the same defending Exalted 3e. Shit taste cannot be fixed.

>>44484252

Peak 3.5 went from 6 million players worldwide to 1 million players worldwide with 4, dingus. It was an absolute disaster.

>>44484089
>>44484207
>>44484242
>>44484252
Oh hey look at this DnD general!

3.5/PF and 4E were roughly equally good, which means they were neither outstanding nor outrageously bad. Fun with a good group, decent enough that their existence is a positive thing.

>>44484305
Oh? So you have some way of knowing exactly how many people were playing the system? And obviously there were five million Pathfinder players, too, who you identified?

>>44484296
What I want to know how you take the parts of it you're going to need with you when playing in someone else's house.

>>44484301
They're different systems with different priorities anyways mang, there's nothing wrong with liking different games.

>>44484196

RotSE was actually one of the better 2nd edition supplements, really.

>>44484323

About a million pathfinder actually, which is pretty fucking embarassing when a ripoff had equal numbers to the currently supported version of the official product.

>>44484351
Disagree. Parts were good (like where Szoreny and Isidoros were acting like divine prison snitches to get out on parole) but other parts of it were really hit or miss, especially the section on the East.

>>44484386
I repeat, how do you know how many people were playing 4e?

>>44484351

I always liked the idea that due to the Sidereals doing whatever they could to save Creation through Fate workings they accidentally got all Five Dragons to Exalt her at the same time. Making her five Dragonblooded in one.

>>44483989
Say I want to make a Night Caste justicar-type character. You know, the kind of character that is supposed to be jury, judge and executioner. The Caste abilities are actually fine because yeah, Larceny, Stealth, Investigation, Awareness, they all work quite well.

But then I run into the problems because I NEED Dodge, and I NEED Integrity and I NEED bare minimum of Survival and that's even not talking about stupid shit like being firced to have 1 dot of Linguistics to read and write.

So I ned up just not having enough favourites/castes for what I want and not enough dots.

Or say I want to make a Twilight Plague Doctor from Sijan. Again the same problem- I can make the character, but it will be crippled by minimums that I must have. and that is even before I get to charms.

And if I go the other way around and just make a build, like a very heavy Melee build for exmaple I end up with a one-dimensional character that is good at one thing, but I have to struggle to make them good at anything else and if I do, I have to go out of my way to explain why they even picked up those skills and why they don't have charms for them.

>>44484396

>Isidoros

>Parole

Isn't his entire thing rampaging uncontrollably in a random direction?

>>44484315

I wasn't even debating which game is better. Point is WotC fucked up hard on making the game because they attempted to get a larger audience at the price of ignoring the older crowd.

>>44484228

The ginger Db waifus are one of the worst things in the fluff.

>>44484448
Listen to me: unless you are playing a dedicated combat or social specialist, you don't need to max out your dodge or integrity or whatever. A couple of dots at most ought to be more than fine.

As for dodge, you can favor melee and boost up your Parry instead.

>>44484468

They essentially entirely abandoned their old fluff and their old crunch at the same time, after 30 years with at least some continuity between older and newer products.

It was unfathomably dumb to change like that regardless of the end result then, and it's still dumb now with AoS.

These companies never learn, apparently.

>>44484448
>but I have to struggle to make them good at anything else and if I do, I have to go out of my way to explain why they even picked up those skills and why they don't have charms for them.

I'm really not following. You don't automatically have to have charms for every ability dot you take. Is your ST just an ass or what?

>>44484448

Being good at an ability can mean having as much as two dots in it. Your character can be good at many things because of this, but the existence of the Supernal ability encourages specialization, you should be putting about 8 charms into that ability at chargen.

Your Dawn is only one dimensional if you don't give him ties or principles beyond the minimum amount, there's absolutely no problem with Swording every challenge that you meet. Exalted is a game of the consequences for doing so, both good and bad.

>>44484448

If you want ignore that 1 ling dot = literal rule. Most people I know do.

Dodge is a must have if you're going ranged, otherwise you can skimp if going Brawl or Melee as they have defensive options.

Use BP to slam the caste abilities you want to bust. Survival if you want to track people but you don't need it favored (just enough for Bloodhound really). Integrity is the same, as carefully planned intimacies you don't really need high integrity. It's not like 3e where it was a no brainer due to social defense and cool shit.

>>44484351
You shut your whore mouth.

>>44484461
Well, it was Szoreny who had the prison snitch plan, he just wanted an out for Isidoros too as part of the deal, because Isidoros is his Brozi.

They don't really go into much detail about what Isidoros himself might think of Szoreny's plan...

Is "Ugly Bastard in Assless Leather Chaps" a good Abyssal name?

>>44484719
Honestly?

No.

>>44484719
In the sort of groups I play with, sure.

In real groups that want to actually lay the game properly, probably better to go with something like: Noxious Whore In Tattered Rags Despairing In The Cold Winds Of Of The West.

>>44484719

Whilst I'm not exactly going to say yes, it's not like it's worse than the average canon name for one.

>>44484556
That's what I'm talking about when I say the character ends up one-dimensional, having charms for 2-3 abilities and none or the other. And if I want to make a character that is actually realistic and encapsulates the concept it's horribly suboptimal.

>>44484719
Chaps do not cover the ass. This is by default.
>>44484471
Context?

>>44484825
You don't need a charm to have a concept: charms just give your concept more weight. Just buy the dots at chargen and pick up the charms over play.

>>44484825
Why should a nuanced character be superhumanly good, rather than just humanly good, in a whole bunch of abilities? A couple of dots and an Excellency are enough to make you plenty impressive as far as most of the setting is concerned. As for being suboptimal, whether that matters or not depends entirely on the rest of the group and the way your ST builds his NPCs. There is no obligation to optimize.

>>44484840
I just don't like the Suethress, her cunt daughter, or Girl Caesar.

>>44484840

Assless Chaps.

>>44484917
Okay, now I'm just thinking of a bunch of british men who were born without asses.
>>44484911
I don't know who these characters are. Are they in 2e or 3e? And what book?

>>44484965
They've been around since 1E, anon is talking about the Scarlet Empress, Mnemon, and Tepet Ejava.

>>44484965
The Empress (who is too absent to be a Mary Sue), Mnemon (who you're not supposed to like) and Tepet Ejava (who really is a Girl Caesar, or rather a Mature Woman Caesar, and this is great).

>>44484559
Except that having specific ties and story elements should translate to having relevant abilities on high levels and several charsm asociated with those abilities. These kinds of characters are what Id escribe as "fitting a concept". Like, don't you think it's weird when a character who, say, has a backstory of being a street urchin in Nexus and survving on the street has no dots in Larceny, Stealth and Survival and not a single charm associtaed with those abilities? It makes that backstory a farce, there's this sense of disconnect bewteen the game mechanics and story

>>44484887
Thing is, there is just not enough Caste/Favoured slos to go around for even Excellencies because there are skills that are just a must and in order to buy them cheap, you need to favour them.

>>44485036
>Nexus and survving on the street has no dots in Larceny, Stealth and Survival and not a single charm associtaed with those abilities?

Except your Street Urchin spent much more time being a street urchin, and much less time being an Exalt, thus far. It would totally make sense for that character to have ability dots in their core competencies but may, as of yet, lack charms for them.

>>44485063
I have to ask, what skills are "must" skills for you?

>>44485013
>Untouchable dickwaving NPC responsible for damn near everything due to infinite just as keikakus that ensures everything falls apart because she's gones who gets a cancerous what -if supplement tying her to the apocalypse after becoming some other faggot npc's bitch

>Not a massive mary sue

Her daughter while less worse is shitty cuz she's just fucking boring and a dipshit much like girl caeser.

I mean even Nardo characters are better

>>44485036
>Like, don't you think it's weird when a character who, say, has a backstory of being a street urchin in Nexus and survving on the street has no dots in Larceny, Stealth and Survival
A street urchin should have a dot or two in these Abilities, sure. This does not require a huge investment.

>and not a single charm associtaed with those abilities
Well, no. Why would this be weird? You can be good at things without having Charms. Your character obviously didn't have Charms in these Abilities before he Exalted, and after he Exalts he learns Charms related to things that are currently relevant to him. If an Ability is kind of an important part of your character's backstory but not really a central part of what he does now, just take two dots in it, have it as a Favored Ability and enjoy your free Excellency.

>>44485137
The Empress is a plot device: her role in the game is defined by her absence.

RotSE missed the point of that though, and was bad.

>>44485165
It's still shit

>>44485165

Nah, RotSE fulfilled the plot hook. It wasn't presented as the ONE TRUE way to resolve it, just a big sweeping apocalpytic plotline going somewhere with that shit.

>>44485137
Yes, anon, a character who's gone, who doesn't appear on-screen, who is not in a position to affect anything whatsoever anymore sure as fuck isn't a Mary Sue. Besides, we don't exactly have detailed information about her history and actions. How much of her achievements was due to personal brilliance, how much due to luck luck, how much due to talented retainers and Sidereal patronage? Was what she achieved what she sought to achieve? How often did she fail, how many dreams and goals did she have unfulfilled? We don't know. There's no canon information.

>>44485118
Integrity, Socialize, Dodge, Awareness, bare minimum of Survival and a minimum of one combat skill. you need at least 3 Resolve and Guile to not swoon over normal mortals and to be able to actually lie once in a blue moon.

So the only place for detailed information about the Cult of the Illuminated is in Cult of the Illuminated correct? Nothing else anywhere else?

>>44485234

all of it
100% her because she's some dev's waifu
read between the lines fuckboy

>>44485311

Cult of the Illuminated is terrible, don't use it.

Literally any product that says "PC's will learn eventually, so play dumb for now" is stupid.

>>44483824
You know how some materials can lose color intensity if they are old/stay in the sun for years and things like that?
Solar anima bleaching works like that, only fast.

>>44485344
Geoff Grabowski based the Empress on Qin Shi Huang. She was never meant to be a sympathetic or admirable character, given how many negative things Grabowski had to say about the actual Qin Shi Huang.

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>>44485418
>implying that matters
>implying grabowski isn't a hack and a dipshit who screwed the pooch so badly its legacy of fuck ups continues to this day.

>>44485465
So...why do you hang around /exg/, again?

So a while back I've seen soem anons complaining that the Golde Janissary style didn't find its way into the core. I was wondering if anybody transferred it already? If not, any hints on how should I go about it?

>>44485465
>implying that matters

Yes, it does. Why do you think it doesn't?

>>44484038

It seems okay, and is certainly better then using the stats for the Bronze Faction Assassin (Or gold faction Benefactor if we're feeling fancy) over and over.

>>44485418
>She was never meant to be a sympathetic or admirable
She cancelled two Apocalypses. And cried over the comrades she had to sacrifice to do it.
I feel as though that should count for something in this discussion.

>>44485673
Even the most selfish bastard of all times should be motivated to cancel the Apocalypse, though, and crying for your fallen comrades is normal rather than admirable. That said, RotSE aside, the Empress has been described vaguely and in general terms, leaving her character largely open to speculation. She might be a fundamentally admirable character who did her best in the situations she was in, she might be a horrible monster who did most of what she did out of greed and lust for power, or she might be somewhere in between.

>>44485673
Keeping in mind, after cancelling said apocalypse she ruled as a tyrant over what was left, and even if she regretted sacrificing her comrades, she totally did it.

What does Worshipful Lackey Acquisition imply with ''achieves a goal through lecture, prophecy, oration, or other forms of performance''? Is it talking specifically about using the Performance skill or is succeeding at something with Presence fine too?

>>44486019

Does it really matter which one of the brainwashing charms you go for? They're all just brainwashing charms.

>>44485933
To be fair, though, for someone who grew up in the militaristic Shogunate and just witnessed an almost-double-Apocalypse, making sure that someone has enough power to stop something like that from happening again might genuinely seem like the best course of action for everyone.

>>44486071
What are you talking about?

>>44486019
Given that performance isn't capitalized, you'll be fine if you lecture, prophecy, or orate with presence.

>>44486071
I know you're not going to read the book but could you at least read what other people are actually saying?

>>44486239

Well, the way Exalted mechanics tend to work, you end up with roughly a billion charms for brainwashing people with.

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>>44486358
Well, he was asking how a charm worked. Not what charm is best.

>shit OPs make for shit threads
Shocking.

>>44486531
That's probably why it was made.

It's just one dude spamming the thread ineptly, for the most part everyone else is still talking.

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How do I get good at the social influence system? Every time I convince an NPC of something with a successful roll, they just spend a point of willpower and make me eat shit.

>>44487041
Get a better ST.

>>44487041
Basically this. >>44487141
Someone should only spend WP on things that they would actually not want to give a shit about. And they only have so many, especially with the vastly limited WP regen in 3e. You get 1wp back per good night's sleep.

If you're trying to make people do things that are incredibly counter to what they are or want as a person, then yeah they're gonna be resisting. That's why you don't try and add an Intimacy of "Slaves are people too!" to someone with "Slaves are the bee's knees!" because that shit is contradictory and easier to refuse. You can have contradictory intimacies, and in fact a lot of people do but they are much harder to add as opposed to them coming naturally.

Also, for Persuade actions, they need to have another Intimacy at equal strength to the one you used to Persuade them to do something and then explain why that Intimacy allows them to refuse to even have the option of spending Willpower to resist.

>>44485311

So went off the internet for a couple hours. Guess I was right in my assumption that the only book to cover it at all was Cult of the Illuminated in 1e.

>>44485036
>Like, don't you think it's weird when a character who, say, has a backstory of being a street urchin in Nexus and survving on the street has no dots in Larceny, Stealth and Survival
I'd assume they'd have one, maybe two, dots in those skills.
>and not a single charm associtaed with those abilities?
It wouldn't surprise me at all that they wouldn't have any charms in those skills. Charms are extremely powerful, and if those skills aren't a core part of who that character is, then it's entirely reasonable that they wouldn't have charms in those skills.
>It makes that backstory a farce, there's this sense of disconnect bewteen the game mechanics and story
There really isn't.

>>44485234
Being brilliant and all around amazing is not what a Mary Sue is. A Mary Sue is a character who has "features" in lieu of being an actual character with defined personality and traits to explain why they are amazing.

Her Redness is a figure of legend. A previous Anon was right. She is more plot device than Mary Sue.

>>44488277

Ok Holden

>>44488277
A Mary Sue is an author insert who is adored by every other character.

>>44488700
Which the Empress most certainly is not. For one, she isn't enough of a character to be author insert, and there's a fuckload of people in the setting who don't adore her. The game itself, insofar as there is anything like the game's official point of view, doesn't consider her or her empire worth adoration.

Guys, guys, guys. I have a really, really stupid idea.

Step one: You take Stamina 5 and Ox-Body Technique times 5.

Step two: have Essence 3.

Step three: have Injury-Forcing Technique, Touch of Blissful Release and Life-Exchanging Prana.

Step four: Find a reliable way to deliver a decisive gambit (Stealth maybe?).

Step five: Take 21 levels of damage using Life-Exchanging Prana, use Touch of Blissful Release to ignore wound penalties for a moment, transfer 21 wounds with Injury-Forcing Technique.

Who needs perfects amirite?

>>44488881
Step 4 sounds like an 'easier said than done' kind of thing.

>>44488881

You missed the part where you can 1) only transfer (Essence) HLs in one go, 2) using Injury Forcing Technique is explicitly a difficulty 5 gambit, and 3) are paying 5 motes per HL and 1wp, so 105 motes, 7wp, and 35 init.

But yeah sure if ALL THAT happens, you just killed a guy.

>>44484046
>I mean look at 3.5e and 4e...
Made more money than any other games until 5e?

>>44489078

Its much easier to just kill someone straight off by stealthing and doing an ambush attack.

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>>44488638

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>>44489112

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>>44484305

>>44489112

Ok Holden.

I wonder if Warstriders will be worth it this time.

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>>44489516

>>44489623
So do we all, anon. We should know it once Arms of the Chosen comes out.

>>44489623
Supposedly, yes: they'll be coming with evocations that are significantly beefier than what we've seen for artifacts.

>>44489078
I mean yeah, it's the sort of thing sin't even a gimmick, it's one of those things that fall under the catgory of "an incredibly convoluted way of achieving something that could be achieved so much easier ithat it ends up not even being entertaining but just baffling".

I want dnd magic (fireball, magic missile, et cetera) suggestions for adding these things using 3e's rules?

>>44489861

1) Don't.
2) If you must, don't add it as Sorcery. Merits like The Burning Name under the Ifrit Lord pact are fine, as are Charms (e.g. Elemental Bolt) if they're in-theme for the creature.
3) As you may have noticed, you're not going to get D&D magic all under one banner, because Exalted made the very wise decision to cut up magic rather than leaving it as a generic do-all blob that you either had 100% access to or 0% access to. (Workings aside, but those are ALSO not at all D&D magic.)

>>44489861
Give everyone sorcery, nerf the attack spells and cut their sorcerous mote costs by half.

Also that's a terrible idea, but hey, if you're determined to...

>>44489861
Play fucking DnD.

Or, alternatively, treat them as normal attacks using the stats of normal weapons but an appropriate Attribute+Ability combination. Perception+Occult or Dexterity+Occult, with stats of a light thrown weapon for magic missile-alike, maybe. I'm honestly not a huge fan of the idea - sorcery providing weapons that still require the normal combat Abilities to use effectively is more to my taste - but that's how I would do it.

>>44489861
play anima

>>44484214
Isn't 3.5 the edition where anyone who isn't a spellcaster sits in the corner and watches the casters do everything? I can't imagine playing a game where half the classes are worthless and saying it's the best.

What are the worst Charms in Exalted 3e?

>>44490200
Worst as in most useless, worst as in most thematically inappropriate, or worst in some other respect?

>>44490177

Well, it's sort of a natural problem of it being a pretty solidly simulationist game, and then having non-supernatural characters.

If you have a guy who's really good at stabbing things and another guy who can teleport and throw fireballs, the wizard is going to win unless the swordsman also has access to some form of superpowers.

Basically DM and Player responsibility to not powergame so that the more restrained classes can keep up, and it helps if you steer a swordsman PC towards using shit like the Book of Nine Swords, which has supernatural weapons disciplines.

>>44490228
Well, I mean, ignoring the double 9s garbage, Charms you hate the most?

Has anyone crunched the numbers on how many real charms there are compared to stupid dice tricks?

>>44490177

Does anybody else find this statement to be anything less then hilarious in an Exalted thread?

>>44490200
That one Lore charm that lets you teach retarded people. Because you know how frequently the need for special education arises in a game where you play a Goku or a Merlin.

>>44490200
The one most consistently bitched about is the Doombot charm, which makes me confused because building a robot buddy of yourself to take the fall sounds swell to me.

>>44490257
I thought the same thing.

>>44490257
Well, a group of Solars is stronger than a group of Dragonblooded, yes, but unlike 3.5 D&D the book actually layed out that this was the case instead of continuing with the transparent lie that a level 20 Fighter is on the same level as a level 20 Druid.

>>44490258

The part that kills me is that it's required to get to any of the good charms.

>>44490253
Well, Shadow Replacement Technique is one of my most hated Charms. It would be pretty cool for Abyssals or maybe Infernals, but feels very much thematically inappropriate for Solars.

>>44490257
Why? Do you feel that any of the Castes is significantly weaker or stronger than the others?

>>44490249
>If you have a guy who's really good at stabbing things and another guy who can teleport and throw fireballs, the wizard is going to win unless the swordsman also has access to some form of superpowers.
In Exalted 3e, I feel that even in a party of heroic mortals, a well-played sorcerer would not obviate an expert swordsman and duelist.

Possibly because Exalted does not subscribe to the inane D&Dism that sorcerers should be a match for warriors in terms of combat, which makes no sense, has no mythological resonance, and is only acceptable in games where you only play as wizards, like Ars Magica or oWoD/nWoD Mage.

>>44490200
All of them

>>44490358

No. I mean if you want to play anything other then a Solar you are choosing to be a weaker.

>>44490308

So its OK as long as they tell you about it first?

>>44490359

Well, Exalted Sorcery always has been kind of a pathetic way to channel essence for anything other than long-winded rituals.

>>44490359
In Exalted, every Exalt is a caster and they all have magic.

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>>44490359
>Implying exalted has any substance as well

>>44490380
thatsthepoint.jpg

>>44490371
>So its OK as long as they tell you about it first?

Yes. I'd be way less frustrated with D&D 3.5 if people kept on telling me that no, Wizards and Fighters are totally balanced together because of x, y, z.

Ars Magica also lays out the idea of caster superiority into the very premise of the game, even though it does (if you're feeling masochistic) let you play an ordinary person if that's your bag.

>>44490381
No. Charms/Essence is more like the Force than traditional magic.

>>44490386
I don't even know what point you're trying to make.

>>44490371
>No. I mean if you want to play anything other then a Solar you are choosing to be a weaker.
Right, but Castes as the closest equivalent to DnD's classes. Different splats are more like races with differing level adjustments.

>>44490412
Poster is a fag and possibly holden trotting the tired muh mythology

>>44490393

A class that can only do well with a long time to work is kinda shit for a combat heavy game dude.

As I said in the first place, the correct balance isn't making magic pathetic, which is y'know, less cool by definition... It's making martial classes use less flexible but more direct supernatural talents that buff up their natural skills.

>>44490441
>Castes as the closest equivalent to DnD's classes

No. Castes are just picking what skill points and bonus feats you most easily apply for. Every solar has access to essentially the full suite of solar tricks.

>>44490441

If you want to play that game then Dawns are OP as fuck and all the other characters stand around and watch the Dawn win every battle.

>>44490450
>A class that can only do well with a long time to work is kinda shit for a combat heavy game dude.
I guess it's a good thing that Exalted is not a game built solely around combat, then.

>>44490477
In my group, we have a Night and a Zenith who are both major battle contributors (the latter via the battle group of Tiger Warriors that he commands).

>>44490510

Because they multi-classed into Dawns abilities.

>>44490444
Mang, you know, he was talking about stuff like Hercules redirecting a river with his bare hands or Roland holding off an army single-handedly. Mythic shit for warriors, not this D&D shit where you can roll to smack 'em or maybe trip them.

>>44490521
...not sure if you're serious, or an insincere troll.

>>44490537

You are the one trying to tell me that Castes are the equivalent of DND classes.

>>44490488

Yeah, but it's a fucking Storyteller game, it can't handle anything well.

>>44490580
He's talking about Combat Sorcery.

Which is still totes viable now.

>>44490257
You're not supposed to play Dragonbloods in a Solar game, unlike in D&D where you are supposed to have wizards together with your thieves and fighters.

>>44490528

Basically. Wuxia shit is valid too.

Basically anything that lets a warrior pull cooler shit than "Stabs slighly better than he did five levels ago" and keep up with increasingly mystically powerful wizards.

>>44490607

Oh. Were there rules for a game where you had to play a fighter in any group? Or that you can't have 5 wizards? Or Wizards and Clerics and Druids? I must have missed that.

>>44490557
If there is anything in Exalted that is the equivalent of D&D classes, it is Castes. Of course, Exalted isn't a class-based system, so...

Solars versus Dragon-Blooded isn't like Wizards versus Fighters. It's like D&D versus d20 Modern, or W:tF versus V:tR. Two games built on the same system, that may be mechanically compatible to some extent, but clearly aren't intended to be balanced against one another.

>>44490651
Oh you totally have the option, sure, but right from the core book it lays out that Solars are the Strongest and DBs are the weakest. If you're okay with that, go for it, you're at least not being tricked into playing one if you don't want to.

>>44490675
No, the weakest are Heroic Mortals.

>>44490687
Well to be fair, forgetting about mortals is a totally natural thing in Exalted.

>>44490704

As are forgetting Fighters in DND.

>>44483304

Okay then, why aren't Solars the dullest of the avaliable Exalt types?

>>44490719
Because you could be playing a Lunar or a Dragon-King.

>>44490714
It would be entirely fucked up if we had a game where people insisted mortals where anywhere the level of Exalts.

>>44490748

>he has never had a Heroic mortal kill an Exalt in any of his games

Look at him. Look at him and laugh.

>>44490371
>So its OK as long as they tell you about it first?
Yes. Having some options being better than other options is not an inherently good or bad thing, as long as the player knows exactly what their getting into.
It's only when you obfuscate this fact, like with "Ivory Tower" game design, that it becomes a problem.

>>44490777
Yeah I know flukes happen and fighters roll 20s but insisting that playing a mortal is just as good as being an Exalt is fucked up.

>>44490740

Dragon Kings are exalts now?

Lunars could definately be better executed, but they do have stronger inbuilt themes and plot hooks than the Solars, who pretty much just have an asshole past life telling them they should rule the world and everyone else being kinda worried the assholes who ruled the world are back.

>>44490371
>No. I mean if you want to play anything other then a Solar you are choosing to be a weaker.
The key thing is what you are weaker to.

If your playing a game with all Dragonblooded or all Sidereals then you are still on an even playing field with your fellow players.
Your character may be weaker than some NPC Solar, but that fact wouldn't hinder the game.

It's only when there is a significant power imbalance between different players that problems start to emerge.

Though the weakest Celestials, Sidereals are still Celestial Exalts and should be able to keep pace if they focus on their own specialities over the more general types of ability Solars, Abyssals, Infernals and Lunars focus on.

Hopefully 3rd edition Abyssals should be more capable of team playing without linkin park music breaking out as small animals and babies die in a 40 mile radius as they angst about how you don't understand their darkness, mom.

I mean yeah, the point is that they serve death and destruction and the Neverborn will try to influence them even if they try to rebel, but the 2nd edition execution was edgy tryhard fanfiction.net shit.

>>44491065

Did you see the Abyssal picture in the Antagonist section? You cannot get edgier.

>>44491065
Honestly I don't know why more players didn't just use the rules hack (Doom of the Black Exaltation) in Shards of the Exalted Dream. Sure it's meant for when they're tied to not being part of the Neverborn, but it fixes that crawling in my skin thing right quick. Further the Neverborn are dead alien creatures maybe they had a screw loose and for some reason DIDN'T hate their exalted slightly less than the others. I am and all my players love it, especially the one who is playing an Abyssal.

This 3rd edition core book says Dissidia was their main infuence for the combat system revamps.

They... They do know Dissidia was one of the worst fighting games ever made, right?

>>44491103

Dear god he's weeping as he holds up a single rose, surrounded by zombies.

>>44491401
Never played it, but yeah, the two separate health pools thing contributed heavily to the withering/decisive thing.

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>>44491442
You can't understand his pain, mortal.

>>44491442
That's not edgy, that's merely emo.

It's really funny to read old posts about the leak and everybody going, "no, no, don't worry, Dual Magnus Prana and God-King's Shrike and Celestial Bliss Trick will definitely be seriously edited or removed in the final product." Then I go check my copy of E3E and it's exactly the same.

>>44491676

Which one of those is the Ghost Rape magic?

>>44491726
That's in Abyssals so we don't know if it will still be in (but based on DMP, GKS and CBT, I'm going to guess it will, in completely unmodified form).

>>44491676
I have an issue with CBT in that it was a a fucking sidereal ability. The rest are whatever too be honest. I'm pissed off with Athletics the more I read it. It's garbage unless you are in combat or chasing someone. It's also vague and doesn't help you determine how fast you go. I'd rather have shitty flight charms than flight charms that only have one use.

>>44490521

Tiger warriors are a zenith "class" ability as well you dumb fuck.

>>44490528

Herc was a demigod. DnD guys are usually mortal.

Stop spouting bullshit

>>44491851
>I have an issue with CBT in that it was a a fucking sidereal ability.
...it's like, the least Sidereal of all the abilities listed.

>>44491886

Spoilers: being a demigod or divinely blessed or whateverthefuck was shorthand for "is a PC" in ye olde myths. It's not something you take into account when translating the characters into other things.

Kind of like how almost all the supposed wizard inspirations (and even that is tenuous, since D&D wizards rip the shit out of most mythological wizards in raw power) were also demigods or divinely-touched.

>>44491888
I mean it was literally a sidereal ability. Pretty much the best Sidereal social trick they had. It was the only few resplendencies people used.

>>44491886
Merlin was a cambion and Gandalf was a Maia. Your point?

I'm DEFINITELY going to get a dragonblooded gf in 2016!!

>>44490655

That still doesn't answer the question of a solar sorcerer vs a DnD wizard though.

>>44493236
I don't believe that line of questioning came up in that conversation.

Solar sorcerers would probably lose to high level D&D Wizards because magic shit in D&D is not balanced at all.

>>44491851

>Garbage as it lets you walk on walls, on water, balance on a single thread, and lift shit.

Uh huh.

Also Movement is more narrative on purpose now. Racing Rare is Three Range brands per turn, but how long that is using IRL units is up to the ST. If you want to use a conversion, steal the 2.Xe speed.

>>44494362
Garbage as in the more you invest in it the more it only has a purpose when it comes to combat.

Flying charms- you have to fight.
Better charms than Racing Hare - you have to fight. You can't just practically teleport place to place unless you are targeting someone which makes a lot of it only good for melee characters.

Yeah it does do quite a lot for non-combat but it needs to do more. There should at least be more run away options.

>>44494419
I just noticed that there are no swimming charms because of course there aren't.

>>44495134

1) Everything that applies to general movement applies to swimming, because why wouldn't it, which leaves...
2) Swimming-specific effects, which would amount to swim a long time and... swim a long time. Both of which you only even want to do because you're swimming to the plot.

>>44495270
I suppose. The abstraction is just annoying. I still think you could have most of the charms De-combated and work just as well as they currently do. At the very least, the flight charms.

I've been thinking about having a Silver Pact Lunar and a Gold Faction Sidereal compete with each other for an alliance with my Solar players. So what are some good arguments for both sides? I figure Lunars are very anti-Realm whereas Sidereals see it as a necessary bulwark against far worse things like Raksha and the Deathlords at the worst.

>>44495573
iIRC nothing about the flight charms is at all combat-y.
It just gives the distances you can move with them in the same range system so the ST doesn't have to worry about whether or not his chasm that stretches out ahead of you to medium length is 250 ft across or 500 ft across. It's just medium range to the other side, either way.

>>44496277
250ft-500ft is Medium range?

>>44496277
They can only be used in combat as a rush action. You can only sustain them in combat. It's ridiculous.

>>44480886
>And I was hoping that shit had stopped. Guess the idiots were just off for the holidays.
I was off for the holidays.

But I also got my money back, so now I just remind people Holden and Morke are liars and laugh at other people's remorse.

>>44495653
>I figure Lunars are very anti-Realm whereas Sidereals see it as a necessary bulwark against far worse things like Raksha and the Deathlords at the worst.
Most Lunars are anti-Realm. Most Sidereals are pro-Realm. Having said that, any given individual Lunar or Sidereal might disagree.

>>44496298
Is it?
My point exactly.

>>44496514
I'd call jumping a chasm Long/Extreme range personally

>>44496552

Long and extreme are really far; extreme'd mean anyone standing on the other side of the chasm is a distant speck, and long range is so far that shouting is basically useless.

That's less "chasm" and more "canyon."

>>44491676
God King's Shrike was heavily edited. That's why it has the xp cost now.

Celestial Bliss Trick is fine.

Only whiny bitches bitch about Dual Magnus Prana.

>>44496334
But mang, if we wanted refunds we could also get them.

We just don't like your posts.

>>44496746
>God King's Shrike was heavily edited. That's why it has the xp cost now.
The thing that people were complaining about (the fact that it's possible, RAW, to hide in a bolthole on the other side of Creation and just tacnuke your enemies with no possibility of reprisals or repercussions) was absolutely not.

>Celestial Bliss Trick is fine.
The word "consensual" still never appears. It's ten letters. Sticking it anywhere would make it clear that it doesn't mean "lover" in a euphemistic sense.

>>44497052
Red Rule applies to all charms, no need to waste word count repeating it

>>44497062
Red Rule isn't the same as "this charm doesn't work with rape," dude.

>>44497052
>The thing that people were complaining about (the fact that it's possible, RAW, to hide in a bolthole on the other side of Creation and just tacnuke your enemies with no possibility of reprisals or repercussions) was absolutely not.

Once per year, and it's hardly a nuke, stuff like "the dead rising from Shadowlands" or "a behemoth rises from its slumber" is just another Tuesday for Exalts.

>The word "consensual" still never appears. It's ten letters. Sticking it anywhere would make it clear that it doesn't mean "lover" in a euphemistic sense.

The Red Rule already covers that, both for PCs and NPCs, pretty unambiguously.

>>44497073
Sure it is, ST can just say "nope" under the Red Rule if the character (NPCs are still characters) doesn't consent

>>44497073
Because if the very idea of rape makes you uncomfortable, anyone on the table can veto it!

What are you not getting, you absurd fatbeard?

>>44497096
>and it's hardly a nuke,

Meteor falling out the sky and levelling the city is one of the listed options

>>44497110
One of them. But the ST gets to pick for themselves as to what precisely happens, so it's only a nuke if they want it to be.

>>44497125
>But the ST gets to pick for themselves as to what precisely happens

I don't see that anywhere in the charm.

>>44497096
>Once per year
Oh, I only destroy multiple cities once per year. I guess it's fine that this Charm encourages me to do nothing but hide in a bolthole reading books.

>it's hardly a nuke, stuff like "the dead rising from Shadowlands" or "a behemoth rises from its slumber" is just another Tuesday for Exalts.
Oh, the Charm actually doesn't do anything useful if you willfully misread its effects, I guess it's okay then.

>The Red Rule already covers that, both for PCs and NPCs, pretty unambiguously.
No it fucking doesn't! The Red Rule says you can't rape people whose players (and the Storyteller is a player) don't want their characters to be raped. It does not say that CBT doesn't work with rape, which is entirely fucking different. Are you retarded? Is this difference too subtle for your tiny brain?

>>44497109
>Because if the very idea of rape makes you uncomfortable, anyone on the table can veto it!
Actually, only the player of the character in question can veto it. If the ST and CBT-dude are both fine with him CBT-raping somebody, well, there's nothing I can do.

There's also a big difference between "the very idea of rape making me uncomfortable" and "the mechanically optimal thing to do with this charm is run around raping people."

>>44497150
Why are you differentiating between rape and rape?

>>44497073
>devs make a mechanic where people can veto sexual stuff at the table if they don't want it.
>no see this iron-clad rule still isn't iron-clad enough for me, and if the devs were truly sensitive they'd...

There is literally no way to win.

>>44497147
>but the Storyteller decides the nature of the doom she divines based on the result of the roll.

>>44497147
Oh my god read the fucking manual you jackass.

>The Solar decides what region to research and pronounce doom upon, but the Storyteller decides the nature of the doom she divines based on the result of the roll.

>>44497150

>No it fucking doesn't! The Red Rule says you can't rape people whose players (and the Storyteller is a player) don't want their characters to be raped. It does not say that CBT doesn't work with rape, which is entirely fucking different. Are you retarded? Is this difference too subtle for your tiny brain?

Hahaha "The Red Rule prevents rape, but the description of the charm does not prevent rape, therefore the rule is invalid!"

Oh my god, you incompetent faggot.

>"the mechanically optimal thing to do with this charm is run around raping people."

If you want to argue this, you will find a much more receptive audience on Sufficient Velocity, they're all for min-maxing rape.

>>44497150
>No it fucking doesn't! The Red Rule says you can't rape people whose players (and the Storyteller is a player) don't want their characters to be raped. It does not say that CBT doesn't work with rape, which is entirely fucking different. Are you retarded? Is this difference too subtle for your tiny brain?

We can't help you if you're wilfully trying to misinterpret things, Anon. Red rule very clearly covers everything concerning this topic. If you want to argue that it doesn't then we can only say 'Okay if you want to ignore the red rule.' Besides, if your ST tries to argue what you are why would you ever play with them?

>>44497150
You seem really enamored with the idea of using CBT for rape.

Please, work out your issues elsewhere?

>>44497203
>>44497223
Oh? Why don't you quote the part of the Red Rule where rape is banned? Because I'm pretty sure it's not there, but hey, maybe I'm missing something.

Here's the full text, for your convenience:
>In almost all aspects, Exalted doesn’t mechanically distinguish between Storyteller characters and those the players control. Here’s the exception:
>A player-controlled character can only be seduced or otherwise put in a sexual situation if the player is okay with it. Otherwise, any such attempt fails automatically.
>This is completely up to the player’s discretion, and they can waive this rule’s protection if they want their character to be seduced, if they think it would improve the story, or for whatever other reason. This is entirely up to the player, and on an attempt-by-attempt basis—waiving the rule once doesn’t void your ability to call on it later against the same character, or even in the same scene. If no one in your group ever invokes this rule, that’s also fine—but players don’t have to
watch their character put into a sexual situation they’re not comfortable with.
>Groups that feel comfortable in doing so should allow player characters the full range of their seductive prowess when entangled with Storyteller-controlled characters… although remember that the Storyteller is also a player and their boundaries should be respected.

Please point to where it says you can't rape characters? Oh, what's that? It doesn't, anywhere? You can only not rape characters if their player isn't okay with it, which is entirely different from not being able to rape characters at all? Huh. Weird.

>>44497275
>You can only not rape characters if their player isn't okay with it

The ST is playing all non-PCs, and therefore can veto any rape attempt a player makes using the Red Rule

>>44497150
>Actually, only the player of the character in question can veto it. If the ST and CBT-dude are both fine with him CBT-raping somebody, well, there's nothing I can do.

If another player or the ST is dead set on committing fictional rape with imaginary characters, no force in the world can possibly stop them, no matter what system you're playing. At that point, you should really talk with your friend, or really start to question why you are even friends.

What /I/ want to know is, who the fuck are you even gaming with where they will attempt to rules lawyer a way to rape others, or attempt to min-max rape?

Jesus dude.

>>44497275
Be honest.

Were you jacking off when you wrote this post?

>>44497275
Get mad if you want, Anon. Red Rule covers it, if you're going around raping people in game you probably have more problems than screaming at people over the internet anyway.

>>44497236
>>44497314
Fuck off, Holden. Your shittily written Charm is shittily written, and no matter how many times you try to cast aspersions on people who point this out, it will still be true.

Alright, I finally get it.

This one particular asshat is the reason the red rule needs to exist in a written form.

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>>44497319
>cannot deal with being argument, sputters and goes back to le ebin ok holden mey-mey

oh my, lol.

>>44497275
The ST is a player. You moron.

>>44497338
Accusing me of being some psycho rape lover is a) not an argument worthy of real engagement and b) basically exactly what Holden did a year and a half ago or whatever when the first leak hit and people pointed out that, RAW, CBT works with rape.

>>44497359
>waaah, waah, the 4chan people are being mean

Yes. Conversation is often mean-spirited on here, the anonymous imageboard. Welcome!!!

Btw, SV was also retarded when they argued that, so I don't know what the fuck you want from me? Should I be nicer? Friendlier?

Where the fuck do you think you are?

>>44497376
You're a fucking idiot who can't make a real argument. I'm not wasting breath on "countering" the "point" that I must lurv rape because I think CBT is poorly written. Fuck off, Holden.

>>44497386
No, now I'm confused because why are you taking this so seriously? Why are you continuing to respond? Why are you even here?

Do you not understand where you are, you rape apologist son of a bitch?

>>44497386
There is an all-encompassing rule written specifically so you can't use charms for rape unless your group is ok with that.

Why are you arguing that you can use CBT for rape when you actually can't?

>>44497398
>you can't use charms for rape unless your group is ok with that.

>Why are you arguing that you can use CBT for rape when you actually can't?
These two statements are, as a matter of simple fact, contradictory.

To the extent that the Red Rule obviates rape, it also obviates consensual sex. If it obviates consensual sex, then CBT is a useless waste of a Charm.

>>44497398
This shit is what made SV's discussion of the charm so fucking obnoxious: because they were trying to rules lawyer their way around the red rule because they're much more concerned with proving themselves right than anything else, and the whole conversation got gross.

If a player is hell-bent on committing a fucking rape even after all the things that are supposed to make rape impossible, literally no force on earth can stop them short of slapping their shit and telling them to get the fuck out. Shine on, crazy rapist diamonds.

>>44497398
The rule doesn't directly say it doesn't work like that. It says you can use OOC veto powers to make it fail to work like that even in a situation where it otherwise would.

>>44497431
It depends on what your group is okay with, which is the entire point of the rule.

Yes, if a group is not okay with just drawing a veil over a sex and skipping to after the fact, then the charm is useless and if the GM is not a cunt, you should be able to refund it.

>>44497431
You understand there's a difference between rape and consensual sex right? In general people are more accepting of the latter than the former.

And if your group is anti-sex in game at all, why are you taking sex charms?

>>44497451
>It depends on what your group is okay with, which is the entire point of the rule.
Also, as I pointed out previously, this is not actually true. If the ST, and CBT-dude, are both cool with CBT-dude raping an NPC, well, I'm SOL no matter what my feelings on the subject are.

>>44497465
If another player and the st want to have a graphic rape scene even after you'e asked them not to, why are you playing with these sociopaths?

>>44497465
W-why not just say 'hey guys this is making me uncomfortable' and if they don't fucking get that, maybe you or the other guys should get the hell out of there, because at this point it's a group issue, not a game issue.

The whole point of the red-rule is to prevent someone from accidentally crossing a line. If someone is dead-set on crossing said line, then there are problems beyond any game's ability to fix here.

>>44497480
I don't know, dude. Why is anyone playing with anyone? Maybe they're the only dudes who will play Exalted. Maybe I'm some dweeby teenage nerd who sucks at confrontation. Maybe they're fun to play with except this one thing. Who knows?

All I know is that I'm glad I didn't pay $50 for a system that doesn't bother to prevent this situation in the first place by tacking the word "consensual" into CBT's description. That's literally all it would take. And yes, the actual text of the actual rules actually matters to how the game is played. If it didn't, you might as well toss the whole stupid book in a fire.

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>>44497519
Yeah man, it's clearly the game's fault when this happens, because it just wasn't fighting hard enough against the rapist.

Lol but seriously at this point, with that group, you are fucked no matter what game you're playing whether it's a Charm Person spell, a Social Roll, or good old fashioned grappling rules.

Your strawman, while needlessly elaborate, would not prevent a fucking FIESTA of rape if the same example were to occur even if they did add the word consensual.

>>44497519
>All I know is that I'm glad I didn't pay $50 for a system that doesn't bother to prevent this situation in the first place by tacking the word "consensual" into CBT's description.
It's not going to prevent the situation. You're talking about a group of people who are willing to ignore one of their group being uncomfortable, but treat the words of the rulebook as some kind of ironclad oath? Bullshit.

>>44497519
Yes, my sweet. Only Exalted, of all rpgs ever made, has problems when a player decides to cross a boundary, and all we need are more rules to prevent this on top of the rules already there to prevent this, because it's not like people set on rape wouldn't try to weasel past the word consensual.

Have you tried Beast the Primordial? It's shaping up to be the TRULY progressive rpg of 2016.

>>44497547
>>44497554
>>44497576

So basically, >>44497519 has his goalposts strapped to booster rockets, which are currently flying off into outer fucking space.

>>44497554
>Bullshit.
Bullshit? Really? You think no group of players in the world holds RAW above other players' comfort levels? Nobody goes, "Well, dude, it's the rules, that's what we all agreed to, if you don't like them, get out"? I'm not saying those are good groups or anything, but I'm really dubious of the notion that they don't exist.

>>44497599
Your example is of a group so set on rape that they will weasel around the red rule, ignore the fact that other players say they are uncomfortable, and insist that CBT applies to sexual assault and optimize around that.

But you think adding a single extra word in the charm text will make the problem go away.

Ok.

>>44497626
It's not "weaseling around" the Red Rule. The Red Rule doesn't give me any right to determine what goes on in other players' sex lives, so long as it doesn't involve me directly. That's not its purpose or its design.

>>44497599
I remember when Vince Baker had a discussion of sex moves in Apocalypse World, where people were arguing that sex moves would apply to rape. Vincent was very angry when this conversation occurred, and insisted that wasn't his intention and would instead apply to something like the move 'take by force.'

At first I thought that Vincent was right, but now I realize thanks to your posts that it was all Vincent's fault for not working hard enough to keep that poster's mind out of the gutter. Thank you. I now understand that Apocalypse World is a game that promotes rape.

>>44497640
First, you tell your ST you are uncomfortable:

>The ST agrees, and invokes his red rule veto on behalf of the NPCs. Everyone is happy, hurrah!
>The ST disagrees, and insists on describing the rape in exacting detail. Perhaps, you realize, this group may not be for you!

Plus who the fuck doesn't just skip the sex scene and deal with the fallout it involves later? Jesus Christ, it's hard to argue against every single hypothetical that runs in your head, dude.

>>44497640

>The Red Rule (p. 222) states that no matter the magic, no matter the circumstances, no player character can ever be seduced if the player disagrees. Although not every sexualized mechanic in the game is a seduction attempt, whenever you come across such an effect, use the spirit of the Red Rule rather than the letter. Respect your fellow players first and foremost.

>Respect your fellow players first and foremost.

One is most certainly violating the spirit that the rule is intended, while almost slavishly adhering to its letter. This is weaseling, to me.

>>44497462
Although the second point is a valid question, it's a little silly to say say that CBS works only with the kind of sex that your group is willing to play out, because it's simply not true as written. CBS works with any form of sex, full stop, the end.

Now if you want to take CBS to use it for raping people, maybe you should tell your ST that. Just a friendly advice.

Like, it doesn't say in the CBS description that it doesn't work with rape because nobody assumed that people would be playing rapists, although I've gotta say, the story pitential is kinda juicy, but it's such a niche thing and it's so rare to find peple willing to play along (Exlted players seem to have collective autism that manifests as complete unwillingness to separate themsevles from their characters and the story. Incidentally I believe this is the reason this game tends to draw in the SJW crowd despite its small popularity), that nobody thought to include it and it's good that they didn't, because it gives options for people who actuallly WANT to play this stuff out.

Like, think about it. If CBS specified that it can't be used for rape, there would need to be a seperate charm like CBS that can work with rape just for people who want to have a story about that. Have you got any idea how much flack the game would get for THAT? And I'm glad there isn't, because it gives me this hope that, although unintentionallly, the game is actually very inclusive. Thank god for that.

>>44497794
>Incidentally I believe this is the reason this game tends to draw in the SJW crowd despite its small popularity
Really? You think it's that, and not all the gay sex, third gender shit, and nonwhite characters and cultures?

>>44497794
>CBS works with any form of sex, full stop, the end.

Perhaps, but since your group decides what kind of sex is permitted in the game under the red rule, it only works with rape if your group is ok with rape.

>>44497519
This post really bugs me, for some reason. Ex3 does a lot more than any other game I've seen to set up boundaries, but somehow you are insisting that it hasn't set any boundaries whatsoever, and that it is somehow the only rpg that has these issues when played by the group in your example, when pretty much every game that exists on the market would have the same if not a worse problem.

>>44497824
I honestly do not believe the intent of CBT is for it to work with rape. However, the text itself can very easily be read that way. If it is not the intent, it should be made clear that it is not the intent. If it is the intent... uhh.