Horus Heresy 30k General: Merry Horusmas

>>44453512
The Khan there reminds me of Flash Gordon's enemy, its probably the mustache.

How many dreadnoughts would it take to make walking dreads a viable list? Currently I have 4 (3 castraferrums, one contemptor) and I'd like to do something funky like that in the future.

So I want to run Alpha Legion...I have the Betrayal at Calth set and a squad of 5 MKII tacticals that I inherited from a friend. If this was your first army, what would your first FW purchase be to get towards 2000 points?

>>44453700
Sicaran battle tanks are incredibly good lernaen terminators are one of the better special terminators they get volkite culverins weapon skill 5 and stubborn and all that for 3 points more each so consider them otherwise you need transports for your infantry if you want to run Coils of the hydra rite of war use the special weapons from betrayal at calth to use the 5 mk2s for a special weapons squad

>>44453531

SPACE MARINES CONFIRMED MOST WEEABOO

MORE WEEB THAN TAU AND ELDAR COMBINED

>>44453581
Fill every force org slot you can with full talons of whatever dreads you can find.

>>44454242
Awesome, what kind of special weapons would you recommend? I read somewhere that if you choose Infiltrate for Coils of the Hydra you don't need to take Dedicated Transports for the squads...but I've got 3 Rhinos anyway just in case.

>>44454242
>>44454566
Also: what model is most commonly used for Alpharius when he is "hiding" among your troops? Do you switch him out for a bigger model or do you keep him normal infantry sized? I love the flexibility and mystery that surrounds this legion, I'm super excited.

>>44454242
>Culverins

You mean Chargers. I hope you didn't model them with Culverins.

>>44454566
>>44454594
Alright so for special weapons i would recommend plasma guns they are expensive but melta guns are not good because everyone and your mom has armoured ceramite flamers are not bad but having the counter to 2+ armour is good considering the amount of terminators in the Heresy. The Infiltrate for the coils of the Hydra does indeed make you not need a transport but you are the alpha legion and you want to keep the flexibility that you are renowned for if you are fighting a full mech army you might want tank hunter but it would suck if you where forced to take infiltrate to fullfill that requirement when you could have counter attack when fighting some world eaters or tank hunter against an iron hand armoured company. When hiding Alpharius in your troops you do not use a model he literally looks like one of the squad he is in so if you are hiding him in a terminator squad just use a terminator and if he is in a tactical squad use a tactical marine

>>44454662
No it is 5 am and i am tired i meant chargers but there is so much god damn volkite stuff i do not even remember the different names for em all

>>44454799
Awesome this is great info, I really appreciate it. And how exactly does it work when he reveals himself? Do I play him as a tac marine in a tac squad or do I buy the kabuki miniatures not-alpharius model so he's up to scale?

>>44454594
Also you are literally supposed to hide him dude you are the Alpha Legion you want your enemy to be guessing where he could be you need to fuck with their mind. I had a game once where i had a squad of tacticals and had alpharius in them and had a spartan assault tank which was literally filled with lernaen terminators and he naturally assumed i had Alpharius in there and when all of a sudden Alpharius popped up in a tactical squad which was about to get wrecked by a squad of Firedrake Terminators and then the tables where turned i wiped a unit he expected to win easily and my deathstar did its job anyway without him in it

>>44454938
Basically lets say you hide him in a tactical marine squad of 10 you literally just use the 10 tacticals you would normally use and when he is revealed you remove the model and replace it with him his model should get released within the next couple months hopefully but until then just proxy him however you like

>>44454967
>>44455019
This is all great info. Hiding him a tactical squad sounds like a lot of fun...I'll try to hold out on buying any knockoff primarchs, is it generall acceptable to proxy using a normal sized marine or terminator as a replacement? Or should I be using something with a bigger base?

>>44455112
This is something you should probably try to ask at your local store/club because it depends on the group really how anal they are about nit picky rules etc i personally wouldn't mind you using something smaller it is pretty fluffy he did wear normal Armour sometimes so why can you not but like i said better ask

>>44455112

Alpharius is 40mm when revealed. 60mm if you use his diorama. When hidden he is whatever model he's hiding as.

>>44455112
This is my 3000pts list for reference if you want to have an idea of how i am playing :)

3000pts Of Alpha Legion

Age Of Darkness

Rite Of War : Coils Of The Hydra

(HQ)

Autillon Skorr (125)


Troops

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts)
Rhino Armoured Carrier
Legion Tactical Sergeant,Artificer Armor,Melta Bombs
9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
Legion Vexilla, Additional Combat Blade

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts)
Rhino Armoured Carrier
Legion Tactical Sergeant,Artificer Armor,Melta Bombs
9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
Legion Vexilla, Additional Combat Blade

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts)
Rhino Armoured Carrier
Legion Tactical Sergeant,Artificer Armor,Melta Bombs
9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
Legion Vexilla, Additional Combat Blade

Elite

Contemptor Dreadnought (205pts)

Havoc Launcher ,Kheres Assault Cannon

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180pts)
Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

Lernaen Terminator Squad (360pts)
Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod
Harrower ,Chainfist,Master Crafted,Power
Dagger,Venom Sphere Harness

4x lernaen Terminators

Fast Attack

Xiphon Interceptor (215pts)
Ground Tracking Auguries, Armoured Cockpit

Xiphon Interceptor (220pts)
Armoured Cockpit, Ground Tracking Auguries

Heavy Support

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts)
Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts)
Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts)
Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons

Lords of War

Alpharius (415pts)

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>>44454322
They get outweebed in 10,000 years

>>44455279
Damn that army probably looks amazing on the field. Are Alpha Legion usually that mechanized? I was hoping to go infantry heavy with my own list, both because I love the idea of having a teal green tide (if you will) and also because most of the FW vehicles are out of my price range at the moment...though I'm sure I'll buy a Sicaran later this year. The model just looks so great.

>>44454594
Alpharius doesn't have a model yet.

I've seen people use these

http://kabuki-models.com/home/132-hydra-bundle.html

>>44455648
The thing about the Alpha Legion is that they are very flexible they can pull of an Armored spearhead a drop assault force or a horde of infantry whatever you like they can do just plan accordingly you are the Alpha Legion you can do it all

>>44453531
Fucking bolters, how do they work?

r8nh8

Solar Auxilia (Age of Darkness) (2495/2500pts)

HQ (165pts)

Auxilia Tank Commander (55pts)

Legate Commander (110pts)
>Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Lord Marshal

Troops (870pts)

Auxilia Infantry Tercio (465pts)
Dracosan Armoured Transport
>Demolisher Cannon, Flare Shield

Veletaris Storm Section
>Power Axes

Veletaris Storm Section

Auxilia Infantry Tercio (200pts)
Auxilia Lasrifle Section
Auxilia Lasrifle Section

Elites (105pts)

Enginseer Auxillia (105pts)
>Adept, Adept, Adept, 4x Servo-automata

Heavy Support (845pts)

Auxilia Artillery Tank Battery (525pts)
>Medusa x3

Auxilia Malcador Infernus Special Weapons Tank (320pts)
>Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Chemical Ammunition

Lord of War (515pts)
Auxilia Stormlord Super-heavy Assault Tank (515pts)
>Armoured Ceramite

Firestorm Redoubt

HQs, Enginseers, lasrifle section, and Storms w/Axes go in Stormlord. Choose the Blind Barrage WLT and blitz the enemy. Axestorms are for counterattacking, enginseers repair, other storms grab objectives, and lasrifles plink out the top.

Other las section inside redoubt to takedown any turbokraken equipped lightnings or flyers in general.

>>44455279
3000 points you are going to see some super heavies and big nasties, change at least one of your Sicaran tanks into a Sicaran Venator, any pens you cause will force snap fire next turn, shits ballin

>>44455992
thanks for the tip was looking to add some more things to my force

>>44455234
People actually field primarchs on diorama bases?

>>44456662

I've never seen Fulgrim not on the diorama. Vulkan and Ferrus are often on diorama. I've never seen Horus or Lorgar on the diorama. Angron is 50/50. All YouTube.

>>44456662
don't have mine yet but I will use the big base.

normally I wouldn't but it's a fucking primarch, If anything's allowed to use a scenic base it's them.

>>44456786
>>44456869

I've magnetized all my display bases. So I can just pull the small based Primarch out when I game. I never use them in games with the display bases.

>>44453700
Another BaC. Bodies good, take many body.

>>44455947
30k bolters apparently use rimmed ammo, so brace for jamsville.

>>44453531
>"witness me" white scar marine
Holy fucking shit
>>44454662
Why not culverins?

What do I do if I want to run Blood Angels? I realize there are no Legion specific rules for them yet.. Still, what would be 'fluffy'?

>>44458753
If you can't wait till February, then I guess using the jump pack or deep strike rite of wars?

>>44458776

Oh, we're getting stuff in Feburary? I haven't kept up with HH desu.

>>44458809
Just legion rules I think
So no unique units characters rites of war or primarch rules

>>44458876

well.. at least it will be.. legion rules..

>>44458710
Because they don't come with Culverins nor have the option to take them?

>>44459013
Oh ok, thought they were bad or something.

>>44455279
2 Xiphons, same upgrades, different point costs... What am I missing here?

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>>44453531

FOLDED OVER 1000 TIMES

>>44458876

Book 6 will have RoW

>>44459554
That imperial fist.

>>44459576
>>44459554
AWAKEN, MY PRIMARCHS

>>44459554
This image made me remoseful for my life choices as a Traitor. Sorry.

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>>44454799
man you really need to learn how to use punctuation. not even full stops!

>>44459880

Its okay.

Depending on which traitor legion you are.

>>44459938
Iron Warriors

>>44459953

You get a free pass then. One of the better traitors.

>>44460050
Only if its a free pass to decimation

Whats the better traitors according to you?

>>44460058

My personal ranking?

Sons of Horus = Iron Warriors > Thousand Sons = World Eaters > Alpha Legion = Night Lords > Death Guard = Word Bearers > Emperor's Children

Its really the last three I just don't care that much about. The novels and rules for the Word Bearers made the more interesting but other than being the cornerstone for the whole Heresy, they just.. don't spark the imagination. Death Guard is similar. The Emperor's Children are just far too gone and I'm usually more entranced by Slaanesh daemons rather than their adherents.

At the top, its hard to dislike the Sons of Horus, after all they had a lot of development thanks the HH novels, and the Iron Warriors likewise (though I don't like Perturabo himself.) They became even more interesting post-Heresy. The Iron Cage event, all of their ongoings thereafter. Definitely one of the most productive and i'd argue understandable traitor legions.

Thousand Sons and World Eaters both have great founding characters and a strong sense of tragedy to them that I like, but both suffer from their primarches. Their secondary characters are imo the more interesting facets of their (former) legions.

Same with the Night Lords and Alpha Legion, they became very interesting post-Heresy and both operate in vaguely similarly capacity. The Black Library novels helped with this as well.

>>44455644
>subtly incorporated

>>44460109
You clearly don't like Chaos.
You like edgy marines, but not Chaos.

Your opinion on traitor legions is worthless.

>>44460578
Go to bed Lorgar.

>>44454799
>everyone and your mom has armoured ceramite

Which has led to people not taking ceramite, because the chance of encountering melta is highly reduced and the points can be used elsewhere.

>flamers are not bad but having the counter to 2+ armour is good considering the amount of terminators in the Heresy

There's two ways of dealing with 2+ armour: pierce it (and deal with cover or inv. save) or drown them in wounds.

>>44460109
>>44460578

S Tier
- Luna Wolves
- Sons of Horus
- World Eaters
- Death Guard
- Night Lords
- Dusk Raiders
- War Hounds

A Tier
- Iron Warriors
- Alpha Legion
- Emperor's Children

C Tier
- Thousand Sons

F Tier
- Word Bearers

Can you tell I'm a loyalist? 1KSfags come at me.

>>44460648
>Which has led to people not taking ceramite
Still have yet to see this. People spouting off about this all the time but not once I have I not seen it taken for that reason.

inb4anecdotal.

>>44460830
>>44460109

Top Tier:
Word Bearers
Emperor's Children
Thousand Sons

Shit tier:
Everything else.

>>44460941
Worst than shit tier:
Space Wolves

>>44460872
>inb4anecdotal
>after anecdotal evidence

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Bout to drop the sickest mixtape of M31

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How much flack would you give an Imperial Army player (not Solar Aux) using stock or stock-ish Cadians?

Same question with Stormtroopers and Solar Aux.

Assume the forms of WYSIWYG are obeyed.

Asking for a friend.

>>44461034
>99 problems but a wall aint one
>deep in yo trenches

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>>44461063
>How much flack would you give an Imperial Army player (not Solar Aux) using stock or stock-ish Cadians?

Well, I'm not autistic about ruining the game by using non-FW stuff, and second, if Cadian-like troops are not 30k, how does one explain, say, Malcador's Chosen (source: Collected Visions)?

>>44460998
>anecdotal statement
>anecdotal reply
>point missed entirely

It's like we're on tg or something

>>44461131
>I have not seen it, thus it's not true, and if you try to tell me you've seen it, it doesn't prove anything.

>>44461112

Good to know. I just don't know if I can sell teh wif on "a hundred *MORE* dudes with lasguns" at FW prices...

>>44461149
>Haven't seen something you claim is so vastly popular.

FTFY

>>44461063
Stormtroopers as Solar Aux are fine imo, but they are equally as expensive, so why even bother?
My problem with Cadians is that they look shitty no matter what you use them as. But I wouldn't mind playing against them as 30k imperials.

>>44461184
>my personal experiences are true, yours are not

>>44461195
They look better than Catachans.

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Garro novella is up

>Returning to the start of his spiritual journey, Nathaniel Garro abandons his duties to search instead for Euphrati Keeler, the Living Saint, and any answers she can give him…

>READ IT BECAUSE

Explore more of Terra than ever before as Garro's journey comes full circle and he seeks the woman who once saved his life and put him on his path. Filled with doubts and fears about the war and his place in it, Garro needs find a new path to tread... and Keeler might just be able to help him again.

>THE STORY

Long has been the road of Nathaniel Garro. After escaping the treachery of Isstvan III aboard the Eisenstein, he was gifted with new purpose as the Agentia Primus of the Knights Errant – and yet, Garro has become listless as the full extent of Malcador the Sigillite’s plans for the future are revealed, questioning his place in the galaxy once more. Even as the armies of the Warmaster draw near, Garro strikes out into the wastes of holy Terra. The object of his search? None other than the Living Saint, Euphrati Keeler.

>>44461235
Sounds... interesting, I suppose, and looks pretty damn nice. Is it just me who finds it funny that it costs more than much thicker and much more plot-moving Pharos? I know it's typical of limiteds, but still...

>>44453489
>Hi, I'm brother Avitus, welcome to jackass

why do so many 40k artworks have a guy looking straight at you away from the action

>>44461217
It's like you're not even trying anymore. Or maybe have poor reading comprehension-oh wait, it's tg. Shit that mean's I'm also a pleb. Can we never break this damned cycle of hate? Or is there only...

>>44461235
How many Garro books has there been? I vaguely remember Cerberus and battlewheeling...

>>44461293
It looks like the same artist too. They seem to always do it.

>>44461327

>How many Garro books has there been? I vaguely remember Cerberus and battlewheeling...

Two if you only count Flight of the Eisenstein and this book, four if you count the Scripts I and II.

>>44461195

1. I'm not great with resin, less-bad with plastic.
2. I get what they were going for with the Jules Verne/Deep Sea Diver/Plan 9 Alien look but it doesn't do it for me.

And yes, Cadians are ass.Vicky Lamb's Arcadian (Not!-Cadians) heads make them somewhat better.

>>44461063
Cadia wasn't the fortress it would grow to be at some point, it was resettled after the Heresy to turn it into that.
The Word Bearers found the world 40 years before the heresy and after some Chaos shennanigans the world was purged using cyclonic torpedoes.

Using the models themselves though shouldn't be an issue for 30k, it's not as if the armour incorporates stuff that wasn't invented during the heresy.

>>44461417
Well, strictly speaking they're the 119th Jovian Dragoons, but yeah. What we would call Cadian-pattern.


...With M36 Kantrael pattern lasguns.

(The sperging is coming from inside the house! Get out!)

>>44461451
As if there's such a huge disparity in lasguns that a different pattern just happens to look like a M36 re-issue of the pattern. Hell, you could just say that your troops are using the original pattern and that the M36 Kantrael is a re-issue.

revised Word Bearer list.
# The Unspeaking (2500pts) #

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) Word Bearers Dark Brethren RoW

### HQ (302pts) ###
Legion Chaplain(127pts)
Artificer Armour, Bolter, Burning Lore

Zardu Layak (175pts)


### Troops (593pts) ###
Legion Tactical Squad (278pts)
19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, additional CCW

The Ashen Circle (315pts)
Dark Channelling, 9x Incendiary
Iconoclast
Phosphex Bomb, Power Axe

### Elites (850pts) ###
Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren (380pts)
9x Dark Brethren
Dark Martyr
Artificer Armour, Pair of Lightning Claws

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (165pts)
3x Laser Destroyer Arrays

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought (305pts)

### Fast Attack (410pts) ###
Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (160pts)
Sky Hunter Sergeant, 2x Space Marine Sky Hunters, Volkite Culverin

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (250pts)
Two Twin-linked Lascannons

### Heavy Support (345pts) ###
Legion Spartan Assault Tank (345pts)
Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Laser Destroyers

chaplain and tacticals in the eagle and layak with gal vorbak in the spartan

>>44459554
>BRING ME SEVEN LOYALISTS WITH ATTITUDE

>>44462694
but the Emperor isn't on the Golden Throne yet to play Zordon... So who's playing that guy...

>>44459554
>that poor cut out Raven Guard
Eternally cucked

>>44461227
>Not using Catachan bodies and legs with Cadian arms
>Heads from Fantasy sets
Your IA is weak, old man.

>>44461327
>Or maybe have poor reading comprehension-oh wait, it's tg. Shit that mean's I'm also a pleb.

Great grammar there.

Yes, I've seen people not take armoured ceramite, because everyone always going on about how there's no point in taking melta, so nobody takes melta, so what's the point of taking armoured ceramite when it's only good against melta? But there's not point to me saying this, because it's anecdotal evidence, while "yet to see this" is objective, universal fact and trumps everything else.

>>44463154
That has nothing to do with what was being said, but thank you for your input.

Besides, Catachan legs are terrible and Cadian arms don't work very well with many Catachan torsos.

>>44462779
Malcador, clearly

The Grey Knights were started the same way

Alright, since Word Bearer lists seem to be all the rage these days, help me expand from my 'core' list

> Erebus
> Librarian: ML 3, Refractor field, Artificer armour
> 10 man tactical
> 10 man tactical
> Bloodthirster: 2 Greater gifts
> Nurgling swarm

That's 1010 pts but I'm not sure which direction to take when filling it out. All Rites of War are open but since Erebus is there I see no reason to go for Dark Brethren.

The only other autoinclude is propably a unit of Daemonettes since I have the old pretty ones somewhere in a box. Are there any other Daemons worth taking? Right now they're mostly there for the cool factor.

What do you guys think of podding in dreadnoughts/support squads?

Other option would be to go footsloggers, put possibly much larger troops choices in Rhinos or Spartans and add some Sicarians and stuff.

I'm a little torn, because I have no super sweet plan for the characters and it would depend some on which psychic powers they rolled as well.

>>44455979
Where are the Enginseers going? list looks good otherwise, if a little short-ranged...

>>44459591
^ This

>>44463992
They're going in the stormlord
>HQs, Enginseers, lasrifle section, and Storms w/Axes go in Stormlord
40 dudes on the nose

Thanks for the advice /tg/, I just returned my unopened drop pod and centurions for a Red Scorpions army and bought a second BaC box. Going full 30k. Fuck Centstars, I wanna be Alpharius.

>>44464654
can you put different units in the same transport?

>>44464679
You can't be me, I'm Alpharius.
Why drop pod though? I can be used in a number of lists.

>>44464739
Stormlord is a super-heavy transport so you can

>>44464875
ah thanks. i didn't know that superheavies are an exception

>>44464743
I bought them together so I returned at the same time for more store credit. I thought maybe I'd get a dreadclaw later down the line. Oops.

>>44464969
Oh no, there's nothing wrong with that. As much as I recall, only Night Lords and Raven Guard use regular drop pods unless you field regular Dreadnoughts or run Orbital Assault RoW.

How much of a deal is BaC for what it gives you?

And would it be out of place to use the new Blood Angels kits and some HH stuff to make a Legion accurate army? Vice versa i'd use it for 40k sometimes. Maybe. Okay probably not.

>>44465749
It makes more sense for traitor legions to be honest

>>44465749
That depends on how you look at it, if you compare it to FW resin prices the savings is monstrous. If you compare it to plastics, it's still pretty decent for the number of models you get. :)

>>44465822

I did notice they are kind of spikey.

>>44465749
There are specific rules for using 30k lists in 40k.

>>44465861

Are there?

>>44465897
Its the same system, its just 30k is built for larger scale games.

>>44465831
31 Marines, 6 Termies, and a Dread for ~$115?

I remember when that was pretty normal value. It was a great time when one could pretty easily increase the size of the playgroup

>>44465955
This was not a remark about GWs current pricing structure, merely about the level of savings compared to market price of current models.

Yes GW has increased the price of their products quite a bit in the last few years, that changes little in regards to the level of savings offered by BaC compared to current market prices for similar products.

>>44465861
No there aren't. FW has always said 30k is not balanced for 40k. The best you can do is take some 30k era vehicles in 40k via Imperial Armour.

>>44465749
That.. depends on if you are an armour purist. You could play perfectly fine with the mismatch of Mk4,5,6, and 7 that comes in the normal space marine boxes. But most players will look down on you.

If you are playing a legion that still uses a lot of Mk3 I have bad news for you. Most legions are equipped with mk 4 during the heresy so then the Calth box is sweet. If you are playing Raven Guard I guess you are fine with the normal marine kits and raid bitsboxes/bit sites etc for extra beakies and mk 6 legs.

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Somebody on Instagram said 5 heavy bolters is a legal support squad...is this true? Doesn't show up on my battlescribe app but I've learned not to trust it.

>>44466442
I don't understand the armour snobs. As the Heresy ground on more and more legions mixed marks, and even pieces of armour between marks. Honestly it's inaccurate to have a the same mark across your entire army.

>>44466478
Heavy support squads do have the sergeant with a heavy weapon, but troop support squads the sergeant has bolt pistol and cc weapon with no option to take special weapon.

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>>44462807
Looks pretty cool all the same.

>>44466478
It's a legal Legion Heavy Support Squad, not a Legion Tac Support Squad.

>>44466502
Well, there is armour snobbery and then there is having 60% of your marines in Mk7...

>>44466478
It's legal for a heavy support 'devastator' squad, not for a support squad.

>>44466240
Yes, yes there are rules for using 30k armies in the 40k setting. Officialy released by FW. For playing 30k armies using 40k rules.

>>44466507
>>44466538
Oh OK awesome. If I'm running Alpha Legion, would a 5 man Heavy Support Squad with HBs be any good with Infiltrate?

>>44466507
although the FAQ added a flamer to the sergeant of the support squad

>>44466568
Just as good as any squad with heavy bolters would be, so it's marginal. But it's still the coolest loadout you can get with them so go for it imo. More realistically speaking a support squad with plasma guns and infiltrate will give you much more bang for your buck, and is scoring to boot.

While we're on the topic of heavy weapons are there plans to change how they are held? I'm really not a fan of the 'holding a bolter with an underslung heavy bolter' pose.

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>>44466507
What's this then?

>>44466654
Which book is this from? Book 1 says what >>44466507 says.

>>44466716
The redbooks. Books 1-3 are effectively obsolete ruleswise.

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>>44466629
Go ahead and buy how many packs of this you need for your heavy bolters then.

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>>44466518

I would listen to a Loyalist Space Marine hip hop album.

So, anyone now read the new Garro Novella?

Are there no Plasma Blasters available for purchase ?

>>44466608
I'm planning on running a plasma support squad. But a heavy bolter squad sounds awesome and I have the parts for it...anyone wanna convince me that 5 missile launchers would be better?

>>44466726
Do not make that assumption, red books are contradicted by the FAQ and errata, as well as having copy/paste errors.

For example: PotL in book 1 does not allow legion specific Terminator squads, then the red book says yes you can, but the FAQ specifically reinforces that you can't...

>>44466629
They will never change it.
People love it.

>>44466518
What legion is the guy at the front?

Wolf?
Seeing as they're the only legion not there

>>44466897
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Cataphractii-Special-Weapons-Set

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Legion-Tartaros-Terminator-Special-Weapons-Set

Both contain a plasma blaster for the relevant terminator armour type. However, they're not available separately.

>>44466592
>FAQ
Nevermind then
Guess both support squads are the same then

>>44466989
thanks bruv

>>44466969
Knight Errant actually.
The Wolves are at the back, behind the Imperial Fist Centurion

>>44466969

No idea, there are some other gray guys out back. I actually assumed he was the raven guard because of beakie.

>>44466772
I wouldn't but that's a cool picture.

>>44467051
What's a knight errant, homeless traitor loyalist marine like loken?

>>44467089
Something like that.
Proto Grey Knights, basically Malcador's personal attack team

>>44466654
Gw rules contradicting itself as usual

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>>44466919
You realize you're trying to apply the PotL Errata & FAQ for HH:Book 1 to the Redbooks?

For people new to HH, here is the printing order of the books and Errata:

HH1-3 > Book1 Errata > Redbooks > HH 7th Edition Warhammer 40,000 FAQ and Errata.

Sure the redbooks have a few typos and the Word Bearers have updated rules in Book 5.

But if you're trying to apply the Book 1 Errata to the Redbooks, you're just wrong.

>>44466507
pg. 33 of the Crusade Army List book:

Legion Tactical Support Squad
>All of the models in the squad may exchange their flamers for one of the following weapons. If taken then all the models in the squad must be equipped with the same weapon.

>>44467229
Is there more to the red books in the link? I feel like the legiones Astartes one at the bottom doesn't have everything, just special characters.

>>44467294
>link
>at the bottom

Can you be more specific. I really have no idea what you're talking about.

>>44467294
There are 2 red books.
You have the Isstvan Campaign Legions book (which is 100% special rules for the Legions in book 1-3).
You also have the Legion Crusade Armylist book, which is the "standard" armylist for the Legions, which is then augmented with the units and rules in the Isstvan book.

anyone got any tips for night lords?

>>44467294
The Crusade Army list contains all of the generic HH units up through book 4 (I believe). The Isstvaan Campaign Legions book contains all of the Legion special units, Primarchs, and unique RoW through book 4.

The MEGA in the OP is fucking awful for people who don't know anything about HH.

Just go to KAT and download these two:

https://kat.cr/usearch/horus%20heresy%20legiones/

>>44467350
Redbooks only got up to Book 3.

>>44467294
That's because the file in the MEGA is mislabeled. It's just the Isstvan Campaign red book.

Follow >>44467369 advice and download the two books there instead.

Hey guys just bought the betrayal a calth set and am currently building the MK4 marines i need some advice on attaching the combat knives at the back how did you guys do it ?

is taking a knight errant in AL worth it at 3000? I feel like I'm lacking in both armor busting, 2+ save removal and AA and I feel like it would shore up all three. Haven't seen anyone actually bother to buy armored ceramite in a while either

Plus the idea of the AL having a freeblade on permanent retainer just seems likely

>>44468089
At 3000 points that knight would get focused fired to death turn one.

>>44468151

If they're shooting at it instead of the 2600 points of AL infiltrated in front of them I think that's not a bad use

>>44455112
Whatever unit he is in you use one of those models. If he's in a tac squad then you use a regular power armour bolter marine with no special markings or bits. You arent supposed to be able to identify Alpharius until he is revealed.

>>44468291
So instead of spending 400 points on more of those infiltrating AL guys, you're spending it on bait?

>>44468334
Actually ignore my response to the specific post I replied to. I misunderstood what you were asking.

>>44468291
Plus it won't even take a smart player's entire army to bring down the knight. 3 Quad Launcher Mortars or some Medusas would be enough.

>>44468335

The implication being that if you're shooting at the one thing in my deployment zone rather than the tsunami of astartes about to rip (or just finished ripping) you a new asshole, the guy prioritizing the knight might be stupid.

>>44468391

So the answer is never take vehicles ever.

lion rules when ,_,

>>44468446
Did you just equate 1 knight to the effectiveness of multiple tanks? What are you retarded?

>>44468089
>>44468151
You can ally an Imperial Knight to a 30k Legion? Are you telling me my lonely Knight Crusader doesn't have to sit on the shelf?

>>44468446
The answer is that an Imperial Knight is a very expensive Distraction Carnifex without the survivability of 5e Carnifex due to the high point total of the game.

>>44468528
A Knight is a Lord of War choice for a Legion list, so yes, you can simply grab one. If you also want your Primarch, perhaps you could ally it in (though many Rites of War exclude allies).

>>44468576
Allies get a LoW slot? Where does it say that?

>>44468488

Your point is essentially the knight is bad because it can die turn 1, which is essentially true for everything but Titans at 3000 points. Even spartans will have to be careful at that level.

But go ahead and get aggressive about toy soldiers m8.

>>44468528

Can't you take Questorix Knights as allies? Or am I completely missing something integral. As you can tell my familiarity with Knights isn't very much

>>44468291
I would recommend getting something else like like a contemptor dreadnought with 2 kheres pattern assault cannons and a sicaran venator cause they will benefit from mutable tactics meaning they can infiltrate with the rest of your stuff or benefit from whatever rule you chose

>>44468609
The Knight Army List force organisation chart should allow you to take a Knight as ally doesn't it? You don't get an additional LoW slot I think.

>>44468564

I see, that's a good point. Would scaling up to a Warhound be enough to be useful?

>>44468614

Wait Sicarians can infiltrate?

Alright maybe I can see why people love them

>>44468614
>Mutable Tactics on Dreads and Vehicles.

When did Vehicles and Dreads get Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion)?

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>>44467895
see pic. Also on some I put it across the back tailbone plate thing where the pouch is in this pic.

>>44468335
>>44468391
>>44468446
>>44468488
Look out, a unit can be destroyed better not take it.

>>44468528
>>44468576
Knights USED TO be a LoW choice until the Knight army came out. Now you need to take allied Knights, so minimum of two.

>>44468564

Would a fellblade be better? Couldn't it still get blown off the table turn 1?

>>44468704
WIth double the HP compared to a knight it'll be a lot harder to do that.

>>44468694
>Look out, a unit can be destroyed better not take it.

Thank you for giving us a glimpse into the world of an idiot.

>>44468694
in 40K yes, but aren't Questoris Knights still a LoW?

>>44468645
Sure, but he'd have to take two knights.

>>44468759
Yes, they're still LoW choices. But that means you can't take a Primarch.

>>44468725

Sure but the knight has a 4+ invul, would average about the same

>>44468704
Everything can get blown off the table. What the other anons are lacking is the ability to see synergy. Having one big scary thing way out in the open and unsupported is always a bad idea. If you incorporate the big thing intelligently you'll do fine. Make your opponent choose between a rock and a hard place so your knight or whatever isn't always prime target #1.

>>44468744
If someone doesn't like a unit they always list reasons why its terrible. You can say taking rhinos is a terrible idea due to quad mortars. Then go and say blobs are bad due to quad mortars. Everything has a counter. the point is to mitigate it through clever list building, deployment, and use.

>>44468759
Backwards. In 40k you can take a solo knight as a LoW. In 30k only the mechanicum has knights as a LoW. Space marine legions no longer do, thus they must take allied knights.

>>44468684
>>44468689
Sorry i am wrong i reread the wording they cannot infiltrate my mistake

>>44468818

That's what I was thinking. The knight is less my big bad center piece and more the hammer coming in to smash on the anvil the astartes will be setting up down range. Making me consider a longer range knight though.

I'm just looking to add a big stompy robot to my AL in the future though, not super rigid about how to do that

>>44467895
With glue

>>44468460
I just hope they function similarly to how the older fluff portrayed them - as massive users of plasma and energy weapons over bolters

>>44463819
Libbys can't be Ml3

>>44470719
Yes they can.

>>44466752
It's weird that out of all those guns the HB is the one that hasn't gotten a pack of 5 solo release.

>>44470936

Not since LA:CAL.

>>44466547
Mk. 7 on Scars, Fists and BA isn't strange, seeing that they were on Terra when the Mk. 7 came into service.

Combi Weps on my DG Cataphractii or nah? was thinking flamers and maybe a melta or two

>>44471027
I feel like the OP should say "READ THE REDBOOKS" before anything else. Is this not in the FAQ? So many people even know the rules in this game it's ridiculous.

>>44471027
I'm sorry, what? Is that anything to do with SoCal?
I just, checked mate. There is no errata.

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>>44471158
LA:CAL = Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List. Please read this before you make wrong claims regarding rules.

>>44471158
If you're still using Books1-3 for rules, you're doing it wrong.

mate

>>44471006
Well it's because they put out the underslung versions.

>>44471210
It says three, if there is no errata then whatever is in my book is correct.

>>44471256
Do you realise how much that book cost? You cannot expect anyone to buy another one of those just because they changed three words without mentioning it anywhere.

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>>44471321

Look poorfag, the redbooks are errata for Books 1-3.

If you can't afford £55 for your hobby, fine. But don't pretend you're correct because you have an out of date book and everyone else doesn't.

Also just get the PDFs dumbfuck.

>>44471387
All that picture says is that they copypasted the rules. I mean, why would they even change rules without announcing it and not putting them in the errata. Fuck, for that amount of money it's just common courtesy, whores treat you better.

>>44471517
read >>44471449

>>44471449

boy you sure are salty :^)

>>44468460
LION El'JONSON 420 pts
Ws 9 Bs 5 S 6 T 7 W 6 I 8 A 5 Ld 10 Sv 2+
Infantry (Character)
Unique

Wargear:
The Lion Sword: S User AP 2 Master-Crafted
The Mantle of the Order: This armour provides Lion El'Jonson with a 2+ Armour and a 4+ Invulnerable save, in addition the Lion makes D3 hammer of wrath attacks
Master-Crafted Plasma Pistol

Special rules:
Primarch
Relentless Duelist: Opponents in a challenge with Lion El'Jonson suffer -2 Ws retconned from Russ
Sire of the Dark Angels: During the First turn all Plasma weapons (as defined in the 40k rule book) held by a Model with the Legionne Astartes (Dark angels) Special rule gets master-crafted. Any Plasma weapon with the Master-crafted special rule instead gains twin linked
All models with the Legionne Astartes (Dark angels) Special rule gets Stubborn unless the had fearless
Tactical Mastery: The Lion may choose a strategic warlord trait in addition D3 units held in reserve gain the outflank special rule

>>44471449
Oh, you deleted your post. So in order to find out they changed some rules, I would have had to buy a book for which I have 0 incentive to buy it and read the foreword?

Also, not everyone is willing to spend that amount of money on what is essentially a glorified copypaste job of something they already have, no matter if they can afford it or not.

>>44471628
> Doesn't want to buy a book for the game
> Bitches about having to read the book
> Gets upset when someone corrects his rules mistake

What are you even doing here?

>>44471708
> Typical 40k player.

speaking of 40k players, is there any way to put suspensor webs on heavy bolters in a heavy support squad? or if I take HBs should I just let them sit there and heavy bolt things.

>>44471567
do you normally use out of date codexes anon?

>>44471723
Can't get webs. I suggest you get them into a building and stay there.

Oops
>>44471808
was meant for >>44471748

>>44471625
Initial strike: Lion El'Jonson uses The Lion Sword for his Hammer of Wrath attacks

>>44471826
thanks buddy. I just bought a second BaC box today and was thinking of having a plasma gun support squad and a heavy bolter heavy support squad since I now have all the bits for it. I feel like if I pick infiltrate for the mutable tactics they'll work out alright, but I won't know for sure until I play it!

>>44471876
I run a 10 man plasma squad for my Iron Warriors. They usually drive up in a rhino, jump out and destroy whatever they're up against. Pretty pricey unit though, but the intimidation factor is worth it.

>>44471911
damn that sounds nasty. as a 40k player I can't even imagine that many plasma shots at once. I'll admit the heavy bolters are tempting me because the underslung look is fucking awesome...but I feel like a plasma support squad is pretty much mandatory for most legion armies right?

>>44471708
Bought a very expensive book and read it.
Is upset because a company decided people need to pay 55 quid for errata, when said errata needs additional errata they've published online... If a book is obsolete they should simply stop selling it, make a 2nd edition, or make the changes easily accessible.

Meanwhile you are telling me I'm an idiot if I don't pirate the books and I'm a fag if I don't buy every little superfluous thing a company puts out. Now who is the GW groupie here?

>>44471795

No, but you dont have to be so ass mad about it.

>>44471157
To be fair we don't have a pdf of the redbook yet, so it makes sense that people keep making the mistake.

>>44472406
PDFs of both red books have been available for at least a year.

Get them here: >>44467369

>>44472406
>To be fair we don't have a pdf of the redbook yet

Its been out for more than a year for both red books, sure its kind of crappy scan but its perfectly readable.

>>44472490
ScanAnon even did a hi-res LA:CAL a few months ago. Some archive diving should find it.

So in the lore section of the Darkwing it talks about dark furies deploying out of it.

Thought s? I know RAW doesn't support it but how about it as a potential solution for making the Darkwing a bit more worth taking?

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>>44471970
No, in fact a plasma support squad is (while potentially deadly if allowed to bring it's firepower to bear) really more of a psychological tool. To put it in perspective, if your opponent has avoided getting greedy with his allocation of special weapons, the 10 man cataphractii squad that he deployed for you to use it against will actually cost less... and have a 50% chance to disregard your sexy plasma wounds.

Can always see how you like it, though.

>>44472774
This is interesting. Yeah I feel like having a plasma squad would be pretty damn scary, and I like the idea of infiltrating heavy bolter squad for weight of fire behind cover (maybe adding that blast armor upgrade so I don't get pie plated). If you were running Alpha Legion, how would you build the 10 Cataphractii that come with 2 BaC boxes? I unfortunately don't have Power Axes so I guess Lernaeans are out of the question...

>>44473275
order a single set of power axes and volkite chargers and get lernaens they are better than standard terminators and only cost 3 points more it is totally worth it

>>44471294
They make several versions of bolters and combi-bolters as well, so why are heavy weapons an exception, especially when they already have the model and moulds?

>>44473393
Speaking of ordering things, do you think it would be better to order missile launcher bits and build them as Tyrant Siege Terminators?

>>44473275
You could always go Banestrike Combibolters and a mix of Lightning Claws and Powerfists.

>>44473450
If you are planning on running coils of the hydra then it might be worth it it is up to you in the end

>>44473488
>>44473530
Yeah the current plan is to run coils of the hydra, but I'm still in the planning phase...part of me wants to wait and see what gets released in February before opening up the super glue.

>>44453531
Chris Wraight said this ones a novella about Hibou Khan being sent on another suicide mission ( he's the one that slices half of Little Horus' face off).

I'm running 2 heavy support squads with 2 veteran tactical squads. The veteran tactical squads have flakk missile launchers and the Snipe USR. Would Heavy Bolter or Autocannon teams work best with them?

>>44474536
It's not another suicide mission. It's literally the build up to the Little Horus story. You can already read it in Meduson.

New Alpharanon here. how do you guys outfit your tactical squads? do you give anything to the sergeants or leave them with a bolter? I'm guessing the vexilla thing is a must buy, but other than that...not sure.

>>44475245
the reverse would be best actually; heavy bolters with sniper on the vets and missiles on the support.

>>44476086
RG here also Alpharius, but we use tacs the same way. Vex and thats it. Use the points for heavy-hitters like Mor Deythan, headhunters etc.

>>44476086
I run Vex and Melta Bomb, if it's meant as a CC squad I'll spring to upgrade the sergeant.

>>44475245

Flakk missiles in vet squads is kind of a waste, if your two guys with launchers (which are only 24" range because of suspensor web) are shooting at aircraft then your 8 other guys aren't, heavy bolters, or heavy flamers if you plan on getting close, which you should anyways because of 2 attacks base +1 for two weapons. If you give one of your heavy squads missile launchers you can almost give them flakk missiles with the points saved (while potentially throwing out twice as many missiles, and being able to engage targets from twice the range).

As far as the HB vs. AC goes, it depends on what your planning on using them for. If you want something in a more general fire support role then auto cannons or missile launchers work, as they let you hurt a wide variety of units from a good distance away, while HB can only really hurt infantry and very think skinned vehicles, but 10 HB dudes cost only 235 points and vomit out 30 shots a turn, so plopping that down at the very least will serve as a great distraction because no one wants to march an infantry blob into range of that while being relatively cheap.

>>44453489

>(Audio, Nick Kyme)- The 2nd "Battle for the Abyss" and the formation of the "Red-Marked."

>>44453512

>(Novel, Chris Wraight) - The Khan faces off against the 2nd primarch he has been foreshadowed to fight.

>>44453531

>(Reprint, Chris Wraight)- Bridges the gap between Scars and Little Horus. Important character development for "The Path of Heaven"

>>44459554

>Anthology

>>44476497
is a 5 man HB with infiltrate enough to be effective, or is it pretty much mandatory to get up to 10?

>>44461235

It was surprisingly good. The Assassin from Nemesis turned up in it. He works for Horus now.

>>44476548
>(Novel, Chris Wraight) - The Khan faces off against the 2nd primarch he has been foreshadowed to fight.

I bet it's Fulgrim.

>>44477093
There was a short story that showed his turning. I think it was called Gunsight or something like that.

>>44477281

Yeah. He tries to assassinate Keeler with a Daemon Sniper Rifle that fires sentient snake ammunition. No kidding.

>>44476086
I leave my sergeant with a bolter i get a vexilla and extra combat weapons i give my sergeants artificer armour and melta bombs

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>>44477351
>sentient snake ammunition

>>44477539
Do the extra combat weapons usually earn their points back? What's the point of giving the sergeant artificer armor? is the extra 1 leadership that important to protect?

>>44477541

>

Just as before in the extermination of the Afrik settlement, the daemon gun discharged with a firedrake’s roar and vomited up a stream of plasma flame. The murderous lance of burning warp-energy was itself alive, and it wound through the stale air of the chapel as a sea-serpent would move through open water. Blindingly fast, the blazing streamer described twists and turns that no conventional munition would ever have been able to achieve – and everything it touched came alight, consumed from within by a shrieking internal fire. The assassin kept firing, and more snakes of hellish plasma were unleashed into the chamber, dancing and killing as they went.

>>44471054
Thought they only had the Aquila armour for the Battle of Terra?

>>44477741
Aquila Armor IS Mk.7.

>>44477741
That's exactly what he's saying.

>Formations are introduced to 30k
>Use LoW slot and follows Price of Failure and 25% rules

Reasoning being that War machine Detachments, Sub Orbital Wings etc are already pseudo-formations. And this could allow introduction of good/fluffy formations we read about in the HH books and be tame simultaneously.

Thoughts?

>>44477947
What next? Add Eldar and their underpriced D? I'd rather not add formations and just keep using RoWs and moving units around the FOC (Like Sigismund making Templars troops).

>>44477981
Orks too.

>>44477981
While I would be totally fine with formations never happening. I just really like the idea of them. I was reading about a Raven Guard Moritat Kill-Cadre and though "How cool would that be in a Decapitation Strike list".

I don't want the infinite detachment minmaxing fest that is 40k. I just want to use the cool things I'm reading about in the fluff. Draw from the narrative first, rather than shoe-horning in formations into the lore to sell models. The process is reversed and considerably more tame and risky.

>>44477614
With AA you put him up front to tank AP3+ shots

>>44478200
oh that's pretty smart. reverse look out sir. do the extra combat weapons earn their points?

>>44478081
But that can easily be done via RoW

>Moritat Death Squad
>Moritats may be taken as compulsory HQs
>Your warlord must be one Moritat, he doesnt get a trait instead he is the Moritat Prime and may nominate one enemy unit, destroyer squads and moritats gain shred/rending when attacking that unit, if the unit is destroyed the Moritat Prime may nominate another if he is still alive.
>All HQ slots have to be filled with Moritats
>Destroyer Squads become non-compulsory troops but may never score objectives.
>There can not be more vehicles than infantry, if an artillery squadron is taken then it may be upgraded with Destroyer Staff for 50pts each vehicle, if done they may also benefit from the Moritat Prime's targeting.

BOOM!

>>44478306
Don't forget normal Look Out Sir too. 4+ will save you that 2+ armor save goodness.

>>44478306
I play Iron Warriors and gave all my tacticals additional hand weapons because of HoO. It depends on whether or not you plan on getting your marines into assaults often or not.

>>44478337
>Moritat Death Squad
Perhaps
>Destroyer Corps
instead?

I really like the direction you're going in. I think you're on to something. I don't see Moritats 'leading' anyone other than Destroyers in the troop department though. Maybe the Destroyers are compulsory, thus also acting as a sort of tax, and everything else has support squad/is noncompulsory representing the tacs coming in after and securing?

Now heres another thought, totally just spit-balling here, what if it's a demi-RoW that uses up the allied slot? Acting as a special detachment from the legion?

>>44459554
>that Dark Angel
>that Fist
>that Ultra

THREE MARINES AND ONE DJ
WE KILL TRAITORS WITH NO DELAY
YO BIG E, WATCHU GOT TO SAY

>>44478486
But see how RoW are so much better than Formations? Its all the limitations from a FOC without the going into crazyland that the formations have gone to. Its both limiting, fluffy and balanced.

RoW are better than formations.

>>44478442
good point. Also: until Alpharius gets his own model, can I use my "doubles" of the Praetor and Consul models from my two BaC sets as Alpharius, depending on whether he's hiding in a power armor or terminator squad? still not sure whether to build my own proxy or buy the Kabuki Miniatures one.

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>>44459554

>>44478571
I looooove RoWs don't get me wrong. I just want to be able to insert somethings, which could be a handfull of dudes thus not requiring a full-on army with a RoW, I've read about that RoWs don't quite do. RoWs are army sized while what I crave is more of a fistful of units. Then again it could just be my strike team/spec ops fetish for being RG kicking in.

Who knows, maybe shattered legions will do just that; bands of different legionaries building their own RoW.

Though I would totally do a full-on Destroyer Corps RoW in a twin-heartbeat.

>>44478591
You don't actually need to represent your Alpharius while he's hidden in a unit. The rules say he just replaces one of the rank & file models in the unit. Once you reveal him he should be on a 40mm base like all the other Primarchs.

>>44478722
what do people at your gamestore use to represent him after he's revealed?

>>44478883
Guilliman

>>44477947
There is nothing inherently wrong with formations as far as balance goes, but they do devalue the importance of FOC slots.

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>>44478883
Saw a good Alpharius on Warseer the other day--pic related. I always like these primarch conversions, I had a blast fucking around with my Perturabo.

>>44477815
Agreed, but my point is that its kinda hasty to say they had it during the heresy when they only had it for the battle of terra.

>>44478883
The only AL player in my group isn't running him until the model is released.

>>44479086
damn, now that's some commitment.

>>44479115
I did the same when Perturabo wasn't out yet. I just used a Falchion instead.

>>44477614
Yes morale is a huge deal in the heresy it can mean the difference between losing and keeping a unit remember there is no ATSKNF i personally am a fan of extra weapons the extra attack does make a difference and the price is not that much for what you get

So if I used Coils of the Hydra RoW, I can infiltrate all of my tac squads without using rhinos, as well as terminators without using land raiders? what about a Rewards of Treason terminator squad?

>>44459554
>that imperial fist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgRr0CLFhaw

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what is best legion for orbital assault right of war. fluff and play wise.

>>44479588
All units with "Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion)" get the rule you pick with Mutable Tactics. In other words all your infantry squads benefit, even units you choose with "Rewards of Treason".

>>44479588
One thing though, you don't need Coils of the Hydra for that. Mutable Tactics always applies, however you can use it's Infiltrate rule to easily meet the requirement to be able to use the Coils.

I wish Forgeworld would turn some of their diorama shots into downloadable wallpapers or even prints you can buy.

I love that image in book 3 of the Dead Iron Warriors centre and the Caestus and Contemptor/ Sicaran going forward from both sides.

>>44453478
>Chose a Legion with a white paint job
>Lore wise I can only fight my friends that play xenos
Despair

>>44479840
Luna Wolves
WE ARE THE SPEAR! LUPERCAL, MOTHERFUCKER!

>>44480372
Load up on Destroyers and get to it then

>>44480198

Shame then that they don't provide electronic versions of their books, granted it would defeat some of their purpose, art could be ripped from them if they did.

>>44480424
Should I load up on chain axes? Be fluffy?

>>44480624
You know the answer already brother

>>44480649
For Primarch and Emperor!
>[REVVING INTENSIFIES]

>>44480624
>he actually has models in his WE army that don't have a chainaxe on them somewhere

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>>44478976

This is a point, what HAVE you guys been using for Alphie ( and the other unreleased primarchs for that matter)?

Maybe this is something that was ingrained from when special characters were something that you and your opponent had to agree to use but I just don't like using my Primarch.

I own the model and all but I like the idea of my troops being just a small Battalion with a much larger whole with their own champions and leaders doing their own thing. I know I could fluff it like he was just leading in passing but it still doesn't feel right.

Is posting working again? Starting to become an issue, all this site statis

>>44481079
Right, it is. I'm not the only person experience the site freezing, right?

>>44472774
There's a math error in here. 10 Terminators costs 325pts (175 + 5*30 =), while a 10 strong squad of T Supports with Plasmas costs 325pts (100 + 5*15 + 10*15=) as well.

Now this is for all intents and purposes a fully kitted-out Plasma Support squad, outside of a rhino. That a Rhino is in fact an option is indeed a big bonus, provided cheap mobility and a bubble wrap protection with two firepoints for good value. Meanwhile the Terminator squad is totally unupgraded, making-do with garden variety power weapons and tl bolters. The Terminators can probably slaughter most of a 10-strong space marine squad on the charge, provided that they can make it to them in time with few enough casualties while withstanding their losses back; the Plasma Supports can take the same chunk out from a safe distance far sooner with no guarantee of loss.

The prognosis of Plasma Supports as a psych-out system is valid, given the combination of their high offensive output, moderate cost and relatively low defenses. But an accurate sense of perspective is vital in such matters, especially when making a comparison; Cataphractii Terminators are never cheap even with a threadbare loadout, and while tough will struggle to accomplish or threaten as much.

>>44467089
Not all are from traitor legions - especially the librarians like Rubio

i plan to run BaC as a Pride of the Legion Word Bearer list. are sniper veterans with a heavy bolter in rhinos a good idea? how are sniping heavy flamers?

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>>44478976
This is my favorite Alpharius.

>>44455718
Both Alpharius and Omegon have models. BaC comes with like 30 of them and they sell 10 packs of them on forgeworld.

>>44477044

If your willing to sacrifice a valuable heavy slot on it then go ahead, but 5 power armoured bodies is still only 5 power armoured bodies, so don't be surprised if evaporate

>>44453489
That almost looks like the word bearer is crunching down and covering his head while crying as the big strong ultramarines protect him from the traitors.

>>44478486

Or, make compulsory destroyers the point. I've been thinking about a kind of similar in concept "destroyer corps" thing for the Death Guard, the center piece being that Destroyers gain the ability to "destroy" an objective, removing it from play, replacing it with difficult/dangerous terrain (phosphex anyone?) and gaining a victory point for it.

>demi-row

Thats actually kind of a neat concept, let an army ally with itself to represent a small specific sub command tacked onto a larger force but incapable of operating as its own concerted force without support. Hell you could give each legion their own little alternate ally FoC that they can use instead, with certain restrictions, like an Iron warriors Stor-Bezashk ally detachment: compulsory siege breaker, can take a command squad of Tyrants, and all it is after that is 3 or 4 heavy slots.

>>44479840

Every legion had to be capable of performing an orbital assault to make planet fall and engage the enemy, so don't worry too much about fluff. As far as power goes, the "best" as I see it aren't just the ones who can be the chopiest, but the ones who can actually soften up/alpha strike when the come down so you can launch a massed turn 2/3 assault with the support of your 2nd/3rd waves, otherwise your force will simply be marooned under the guns of the entire enemy army. Examples of good Orbital Assaulters I see are.

>Salamaders/death guard
+1 str/shredding flamers, lots of terminators

>Imperial Fists
+1 bs massed boltgun fire, storm shield terminators and the ability to drop heavy squads right behind your opponents vehicles

>Iron warriors
Perty lets you start rolling for reserves turn one, potentially dropping EVERYTHING turn one, and then furiously charging turn two, same thing as the fists with heavy squads

Always remember to abuse the nuncio vox, give one to every squad so that your later waves can land with pinpoint accuracy

>>44481627

You've missed the biggest winners with this list IMO. Absolutely correct that every Legion can play Pods, but the biggest 3 are going to be Raven Guard, Night Lords and Sons of Horus.

Raven Guard are the premier Pod force going in 30k. Alvarex Maun is the single best support officer available for any Legion, with a *massive* bubble of 18" zero-Scatter. Between Maun and Decapitation, you also have +1 to go first and rerolls to Seize. Decapitation is all of the advantages of Orbital Assault, plus a whole load more, while retaining the flexibility to play half-Pod. Finally you have a whole Infiltrating ground-wave, so the whole army is working right from Turn 1 and you can co-ordinate where everybody is landing through Maun and Nuncios.

Night Lords are a watered-down version in that Terror Assault lets them play half-Pod with none of the global army restrictions. Nothing like as reliable, but Terror Squads make outstanding infantry and can play Pods even without a Rite.

Finally, Sons don't have rules that promote this playstyle, so much as everybody being able to play it without burning a Rite. They are the only Legion that can play both Pride and Orbital Assault at the same time, or even emulate both while *also* running the unique Black Reaving. The rerolls to Reserves obviously help as well, for an almost-guaranteed Turn 2 overload.

>>44481982
I can't speak for >>44481627 but I think the purpose of the exercise was to list legions beyond the obvious Drop Pod specialists that can pull off an Orbital Assault effectively, or better simple grant examples for some out of all of them. Ravens and Lords are drop pod specialists, but those four legions listed can do interesting and specialised things when they get out of the pod. It's all possible and very interesting; most people don't think "Drop Pods" when they hear or read "Death Guard", and it's a viable and reasonably-unique option.

>>44480372
I'm confused. Why can you only fight xenos?

>>44482101
the original question was what is best legion for orbital assault rite of war fluff and play wise so you so no the exercise was simply to list the best drop assault legions

>>44481268
>dat quilted power armour

>>44481280
If you were running AL, what would you put in the heavy support slot? All I have at the moment are two BaC boxes and I can't afford a Sicaran quite yet, so I thought I'd try a hb squad.

>>44482784
Well sicarans are just all around fantastic so when you can afford them do get them in the meantime heavy support squads work great they can infiltrate using mutable tactics so you can have them right where they are needed heavy bolters are cool but i would recommend some rocket launchers or lascannons

>>44482784

Missile launcher heavy support squad. Infiltrate them (or give them tank hunters if need be) and give them flakk as well

>>44481492
>Destroyers gain the ability to "destroy" an objective
I like the way you think

I agree with the rest too

>>44478949
Really its just to add some variety and some neat stuff. I understand what you're saying though, and they way 40k does it is far too fast and loose. That's why I proposed restrictions.

>>44482186
Ahrite, didn't scroll up far enough. I'd still like to see Deep Guard (or Death Strike?) in action.

>>44482850
>>44482876
So the general consensus is ML > HBs even if they're infiltrated? Damn the heavy bolters looked so much cooler!

While muddling about with Terminator squad prices, I realised that dual Lightningclawminators are really bad value. For the cost of 6 doods, you could have a full 9 guys with standard swords and bolters. That unit puts out equal or more attacks under all circumstances, typically considerably more; is 3 wounds tougher; and has shooting, even if a not-particularly exciting variety. The Dualclaws can fit into transports easier and have Shred but that's about that.

Fittingly I've seen very few dualclaw Termies in 30K threads and never in games. Anyone with experience with them?

>>44483240
Pretty much so. It's not that ML are strong, it's HBs are either overpriced or inflexible in use. Only Milita and Cult's Merchant Princeling (or whatever it's called) Heavy Bolter squads get much interest or respect, given the sheer borkery of cheap enmasse AP3.

>>44483257

You want a couple in your squad but don't fill it out with them

>>44483431
Assuming that there's a limit to the number of models in the unit due to a transport: an extra attack and some Shred doesn't make a great deal of difference, and it's for 15 points. That's as much as a Plasma Blaster (which admittedly cannot be spammed), or a Storm Shield for IFs. If you already have a share of Fists and Hammers in the unit and thus don't care about Axes, you could break that down into 3 single Lightning claws to replace normal swords and axes and gain far more Shreddage.

Assuming that there is no size limit from transports or the squad size: assuming we are dealing with the very last 15pts in the army, another Termie will grant even more attacks AND an extra wound AND another bolter rather than removing one. Even if it is the last 15pts, you could gain more elsewhere in almost all units, even if it's through simple Melta Bombs and such.

If there's a very specific build in which a set of twin claws is uniquely useful within the constrains of its list, I'd be keen to know of it.

>>44483659
That should read "assuming we AREN'T dealing with the last 15pts", which I imagine is obvious.

>>44483659
Claws are only good for AL characters, who can take a power dagger, gaining +1 attack, whilst retaining their shooting and only paying 5 points for the pleasure .

otherwise, double LC should have been 10 points

>>44483659

Yeah that's a decent point. I think it's more about skewing your melee advantage as far as you can in a melee termie squad and have some I4 hits.

>>44483771
Yeah I was only talking about dual claws as a standalone option from single claw purchases. From both math and experience regular claws are alright as a choice, though I'm not certain a single is worth as much as a Fist under all circumstances.

>>44483815
It'd have to be exclusively under a set of circumstances where there was no other way to boost the unit's combat efficacy that by slapping them on. Power Fists, extra men, single claws and stuff elsewhere in the army all compete ahead of them.

>>44483904
single claws are kinda okay. +5 points for shred over a normal sword. its nice for some at I AP3, but honestly, i think you are right, the fist seems like a better buy.

the reason is mention the AL PD trick, is because its mechanically identical as 2*LC, but is cheaper and nets you the ranged options

>>44483904

Hmm, I don't remember about 40k but did termies even have the option for a single lightning claw? People might just be used to taking them in pairs

>>44483957

Legitimately wish normal AL termies had the option to take power daggers.

>>44484172
yes they do lol

>>44484191
AL already have a load of amazing options for their termies the grenade harness, lernaens, power dagger for the sergeant they dont need more stuff

>>44484213

What's wrong loyalist? Can't handle the ruse?


I do want a RoW later that does the loyalist remnants with Omegon(who gets the first nemesis blade) and can take terminators with psycannons

I just want that to be canon

>>44484213
>>44484243
I actually play the Alpha Legion myself :3 i just think the Alpha Legion is good enough as is giving all termies the option to take power daggers would make them superior to all the other legions terminators buy getting an extra attack on a weapon of choice for a measly 5 points which aint really fair i want to crush the loyalists with my wit and skill not with bullshit rules

>>44484358
>>44484213
>>44484191
*Looks at my dual Ravens Talons*
Damn it feels good to be a loyalist.

>>44484358

Believe me, a discount on +1 A for specialty weapons is not the craziest thing terminators in 30k can get. Storm shields are still objectively better

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>Rage quit job
>Finally have time to start the world eaters stuff I picked up ages ago
>Open can of corax white spray
>It's all thick and grainy no matter how hard I shake it
>Let family borrow hobby knife and glue for Christmas stuff
>Glue is dried up and knife is to blunt to cut

Make it stop.

>>44483957
We're on the same page, Alphas basically put Claws to use.

>>44484172
40K Termies fall into Chaos and Loyalists. Chaos Termies allow for variety of options like in 30K, and basically make a load of sense as an elite unit full of veterans with interesting styles. Loyalits follow the weird (and weirdly priced) strict layouts of Storms + Fists and one Sword, Twin Claws, or Hammers and Shields. Because "tradition" that doesn't date back to the GC or something. One of a number of moderate shames about 40k that 30k simply better.

>>44484191
Honestly, the only reason why is because the Forgeworld writings couldn't a non-awkward way to voice it. "Any unit that can have a power weapon can have a Power Dagger for 5pts" might've covered it but they may have felt there was a balance issue or something. They get like this, you can see it in their FAQs.

>>44484608
Perservere I guess, old bean. One more thing you can see coming next year.

>>44485057

They could just do it like they did venom grenades

Terminators, assault squads, veteran tactical squads and seeker squads may be equipped with power daggers for +25 points per squad.

It'd make most of the more elite squads a bit more deviously effective in CC and combined with counter attack could make a vet tact or seeker squad surprisingly deadly to assault

how is the glaive?

>>44485187
Ooosh, for the whole unit?! That's intense man, for a 10-strong squad of elite models. Although . . . it MIGHT just salvage Assault Squads, for 20-strongers. But that's a side benefit. I reckon a 5pts per head solution works best.

>>44485330

25 wouldn't be bad for 1 wound models. 5 per head would be appropriate for terminators but for the MEQ guys it might be a bit much (especially since head hunters don't seem to pay 5 points each for theirs)