What... The fuck... Happened?

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Seriously folks, I've been away for a couple years. WTF happened to my orks?

>>44425711
Have Orks really changed that much? I don't see why you'd be annoyed unless you compared it to the other codices, in which case, why don't you tell us what happened? You clearly have something you want to say and I guess you're trying to start a discussion, so go ahead. What's gone bad with the Space Orks?

>>44425684
Asking a question without telling people what the question actually is is a pretty dick move.

Hope you get cancer.

>>44425684
Gsmes-Workshop decided that scratch building and kitbashing aren't allowed anymore. Orks are the codex that most encouraged those two things. They had to be destroyed.

>>44425684
Makari is dead

>>44426284
So your problem is that the looted wagon isn't the codex - it's in WD instead?

I don't see how not having a looted wagon means no kitbashing now that battlewagons are highly customizable (rules-wise)

>>44425684
You pointed your photograph-taking device at a hardback copy of the most recent Ork codex and pressed the shutter button.

>>44426432
I think people are so used to getting grumpy at Games Workshop that it's become their default response to everything, whether it's justified or not. GW earned that reputation, no question of that, but it's still odd to see people getting upset first and then looking for a reason.

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So, what I've heard so far is that as per gw tradition they have nerfed everything that players used last edition and forgot to buff anything.

Trucks are now worthless. Red goes faster only applies to turbo boosting, dakka jets got nerfed. No cybork invul saves, jobs no longer fearless. Mob rule was changed ,again...

It was like they forgot to find something new for them and just made a cannon fodder army for everyone else to shoot at.

>>44425684
Collector Army. It will sell kits no matter what. If it was competitive, that would eat into rules driven armies' sales. Eldar and Necrons need to be top armies to move large numbers of kits. Thats how Tau went from forgotten tier to top 3 tier.

Robot kits helped, but if the Tau codex were as weak as say, CSM - they'd probably have trouble selling half as many kits as CSM or Orks. Same for Eldar and Necrons.

40k the game is garbage and needs to die.

>>44426651
Nobs fuck auto correct.

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>>44426658
Man I've been playing since 2ed and I've never seen it this blatent. Well, time to sell off all my GW armies to some suckers.

>>44426651
Play a few games before you actually bitch.

>>44426721
It feels like I have to sink another 500 bucks into my orks to bring them up to the new edition, that is like putting a new engine in a 20 year old car just to see if you still hate it.

>>44426764
Proxy stuff? They're Orks no one gives a fuck about wysiwyg.

>>44426576
The mek guns are ridiculous though. 230 dollars for a 150 point unit. Who would buy that?

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>>44426964
Nearly $2 per point... Might as well be playing marines.

>>44426764
And this surprises you?

>>44426764
Dont do it. 40k is almost unplayable and its probably going to get worse.

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I stopped giving shits about Orks when they moved away from this book.
Yes, it was weak.
Yes, it sucked.
Yes, the fourth edition one was pretty strong for the whole two weeks 4th edition was still around.
But this one still had the soul of the old days. Everything after it just completely lacked the Orkish spirit, they were just any other 40k army. Even randomness is everywhere now, and they are one of the least random army. How the fuck did that happen?

>>44425684
I don't play orks. What did happen?

>>44427523
From what I gatherded GW basically made them weaker in this edition, took away some rules for custom vehicles and generally made them less fun to play.

You're telling me that people aren't just using 4th or 5th edition rules still? What the fuck.

>>44428392
Well, they are no longer published.

>>44427094
>But this one still had the soul of the old days. Everything after it just completely lacked the Orkish spirit, they were just any other 40k army.

Can you explain this in non-abstract terms or give direct examples of what you're talking about? It's just everything you've said is basically a description of nostalgia.

Not really the place for this i dont think, but i figured why not go to the pros for the best advice. i recently bought a group of prebuilt models from a friend, but there are some models i want to take down and re build them, but they are super glued together. What is the best way to tear them apart so i can rebuild them or am i just shit out of luck?

>>44426432
wait, the looted wagon is still legal?

>>44428460
A small explosive inserted into the model if your building and Orky vehicle
Acetone if anything else

>>44428605
semtex right?

>>44426964
>not making your own
You call yourself an Ork player?

I kinda wanna use Mantic's Deadzone Orks as Nobz for a Blood Axe army, but they kinda lack melee weapons and the material is somewhat bothersome to work with.

I don't think that GW gets that some people play Orks for the flavour rules. Same thing with Chaos.

>>44428602
Yes. Shortly after the codex came out GW released the looted wagon rules in WD. It's pretty much the same as the last codex.

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>>44428602
Yes.

>>44428455
i never read that codex, but he references to randomness in the post,being random would really fit orks,always wondered why they weren't.(loved zapp and their wizards for that reason)

>>44428455
In a few examples:
>Mobbing Up: Fleeing Orkmobs could combine standing ones if they ran into them
>Stikk Bommas: Just... a giant mob of grenade throwing Orks
>Ability to shoot through Gretchins, use them as footholds to get through terrain quicker and clear minefields
>Lootas actually getting weapons from other books
>Looted vehicles actually being vehicles from other books
>Doks possibly fucking up and killing a guy, instead of healing him

I'm not kidding myself here, the book was weak a fuck and 4th edition had some nice ideas like wartraks blasting off and exploding, but it didn't have the heart of 3rd one, especially not if you bring Speed Freeks or Feral Orks into the mix.

>>44428460
Put them in the freezer for a while, and then when the glue is brittle, snap them apart. They should come apart pretty easily in my experience.

I generally leave them in in a couple of hours, to over night.

>>44429208
I played Orks for the same reason I played them and Skrye Skaven in WHFB back in 6th.
I like competing and I'm not holding back, but I like heaving a hearty laugh more when my Warpcannon goes completely off the rails and shoots across the board, killing about 40 rats and then some, three rat ogres, a screaming bell and a prophet, prompting half of my army to flee. But hey, it's okay, at least I hit my allies Vampire general on dragon, so now his entire army is crumbling.

2002 was 13 years ago...

>>44425684
I don't know what people are complaining about, the Ork codex is pretty damn orkky. I don't think Ork players just don't realize that the word Ork means shitty in 40k.

New fag here, not played since 4th or 5th. What are we on now?

>>44426210
The question is what the fuck happened. How are you not getting this? Why would you wish cancer on someone just because you lack the mental facilities to discern meaning from a leading question? If anything, you are the one who should be dying.

>>44429762
The previous book was orkier. I miss my ramshackle table and random weirboy powers. The new codex is actually a downgrade with less flavor and more useless shit.

>>44429570

dont forget that basically the only kits avaiable for orks were a box of boyz, a metal nob box, a metal warboss blister, and the special weapon ork sprue

If you wanted an ork army you had to scratch build and kit bash every thing. Every ork army looked entirely different.

>>44429642
thank you.

No more funny orks?

>>44430107
And it was fine that way.
Well, not really fine. Everybody wanted more infantry kits and maybe one vehicle kit for bits. But custom kitbashing and scratchbuilding your vehicles was the soul of an Ork army.

>>44430246
Having a scratchbuilt army does nothing to ease the pain of getting your shit stomped constantly simply because you preferred to play a certain army that the designers consider a joke.

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>>44430107
The glory days.

>>44429703
Good times.

>>44430506
Well, I said that the book sucked.
But then, the 4th edition one sucked too, once 5th hit. No idea about anything after that.

>>44425684
After the chapter house incident many code were "updated" and many of the options without miniature, units, and characters were erased from their codex, it happened to tyranids, DE and orks, many other codex suffered this losses, some of characters along with the inquisition and other factions, basically we are stuck at this point until a true update comes along.

>>44430512
>having to scratchbuild individual models in an army that typically needs multiples of everything in order to be remotely effective
No thanks.

>>44430912
Obviously this isn't your army, go and play tau or eldar.

The best we can hope for is if Forgeworld decides to do a 30k army list.

>>44431077
Dubs speak the Truth. I had scratch built wartrucks, bikes, kopters I learned to do without fancy multi part kits and had a green swarm of choppy death, the warboss riding on a converted leman russ as if it was his personal throne.

Blood axes as far as the eye can see.

>>44426651

>No cybork invul saves

Which is in line with how cybernetic parts work in other armies.

>>44429453
RIP looted wagon. It was overpriced as fuck in 4th edition but at least it had a unique gun that made it worth using for fun. Was always great seeing the enemies face after it managed to land a solid pieplate. Now all it gets is the worthless killcannon. Wheres my Boomgun GW?

Not that it matters. Formations already killed 40k.

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>>44430512
the good ol' days

>>44430912
2nd-4th 1500pts was a huge army. Games were meant to be played between 750-1250 pts.

>>44431294
The issue is that Orks no longer have invuln saves, which is kinda a problem considering how many s8+ weapons there are nowdays. Its really depressing to see a mob of meganobs get completely vaporized in one shot.

Really depressing to watch half a squad of truckboyz die from a vehicle explosion too.

>>44430912
>>having to
Everything pictured, even the terrain, you could buy directly from GW. You scratchbuild because you enjoy the hobby and the hodgepodge nature of ork creations instead of having deff dread clone #382. That said though GW ork kits have gone a long way and I don't think I would ever entirely scratchbuild many vehicles ever again.

>>44431473
Welcome to our life

signed Nid players

>>44431163
>Forgeworld doing anything but muhreens and battlesuits
Not likely, to be honest my family.

>>44430821
>chapter house incident
What?

>>44431569
google it

So at this point I seriously don't get why people aren't just pulling out their old rule books and codexes and playing their preferred editions. I mean you should still have them, unless you were dumb enough to chuck them out the second geedubs told you to.

>>44431569
someone else made miniatures for the nids (Namely pods) and GW got hissy and sewed, they lost because they didn't currently sell the miniatures they where suing over..

So they removed them from the codex, until recently when they released their own (Renamed) version.

>>44431520
Well at least you dont have loads of multiwound dudes at T4, and venomthropes arent a goddamn HQ choice.

>>44431601
new mini's don't have rules in old codex's.

>>44431601
Because you need people who'd agree to do that.
Sure, they are a non-negligible proportion, but they are not the easiest to find. You'd also need to agree on what edition exactly you play. If I wanna play the 4th ed Ork 'dex and my buddy wanna play AdMech, what do we do?
Plus it would be comforting GW in their latest "game design" philosophy: creating a less than functional ruleset and letting the players sort it out if something doesn't work.

>>44431648
Warriors have the same problems nobz do

>>44431716
So you think the better alternative is to just simply play the game exactly as is, supporting the new rules through game play and financially?

>>44426964
>Who would buy that?
I just say that about most GW stuff.

>>44431726
I know, but they arent a core, essential part of the force like Nobz are. Orks even have a bunch of different units that share the Nob statline.

I play Nidz as well and I love Warriors, but you don't really feel like you're losing a main part of your force if you dont include them.

>>44428427

>What is the fucking internet

>>44431869
>saying that and not helping.
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ

>>44426711
>time to sell off all my GW armies
errytime

>>44431911

I was mostly concerned with mocking him, but I see the error of my ways. Thank you for your generosity and good spirit.

You know what. Im going to jump in here and say what a pile of shit has been talked about orks so far.
They.are.fucking.great
Some of you shitsticks would bitch if GW just straight up gave you blowjobs.
>mer mer, you arent cradling the balls right
Yeah, 7th ed changed around some of what is powerful, now its all about mek guns and tank bustas. Two fixes to the game.
>but fuck dude, we have to buy new shit
Welcome to any codex update to any army ever. That is their business, to sell you shit.
Big mobs took a hit. Kans took a hit.
You can have 4+ basically everywhere except lootas (still great) and gitz (the unit that are your thermometer for if someone is just repeating shit they read on the internet instead of actually speaking from experience: if they say they are bad, stop listening)
>mer mer, tournament results
Oh get fucked. Tournament play is cancer to this game. If you are WAAC, then you should have no loyalty to any faction, you should be just selling up and buying whatever the latest mega netlist is, ready to sell it the moment it gets overtaken by the next big thing. If you have a problem with that, then you are all talk and no trousers about your desire to be "competitive"
>but i dont want to be stomped by autists at my local store.
Hey, you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. You meet assholes all day, YOURE the asshole. How about you crank in the bitching and play the game for fun with likeminded funsters.

>>44432216
>How about you crank in the bitching and play the game for fun with likeminded funsters.
they are gone from the 40k community.

>>44432216

They're not great but they're also much better than all the whiners on /tg/ would suggest. /tg/ is terrible at this game.

>Tournament play is cancer to this game. If you are WAAC

If you aren't using competitive WAAC play as a metric, you can't judge whether or not a faction is "great". You might as well say all armies, even the shittiest, worst one is great, because by your definition, winning against superior enemies isn't relevant.

>>44432259
I seem to never have a problem finding a fun game. Head down to my local GW store. Shoot the shit, put minis on the table, have a laugh. I work from home so i must get 4-5 games in a week. All great.
The secret? Not being a baby.

>>44432277
Is fun not an acceptable metric? I think if you dont see what Im driving at, you might be the problem im speaking of.

>>44432352

We're not talking about which armies are the most fun.

>some dumbass starts a rules argument then bitches out with his "fun/casual" copout

Every time.

You realize there's a reason nobody complains about their Tau or Eldar army not being fun enough or good enough right?

Kind of amazing how stupid some people are. It's simple, simple, kindergarten logic.

>>44431552
Then it's time to play older editions or find a new game.

>>44432364
Good semantics. Have a cookie.
If this game isnt about fun, then im clearly doing something wrong, because i seem to be getting tons of it out of my games, and im getting it playing orks.
Now if you are talking about winning, we could do the old internet debate game and chase our tales by calling the other's experiences invalid or anecdotal, and that could be a fun time. But I am over 50:50 in my local scene.
>your local scene must be shit tier
Yeah, well we might as well just call it a night and hit the porn if thats how its going to go down.
What orks are is still unique. They play different to other armies. The mythical "balance" would actually be hell if it ever happened. Chess is a balanced game
>no, white is advantageous over black
What happens with orks, is their random element either gives you a break early in the game, or late. If it comes late, you are pretty fucked, but time getting beaten at the game table is still time at the game table. If it comes early, and you are skilled enough to capitalise, you can win, and win in amusing style.
Its not the same as more reliable factions, where you can make a game plan and expect thigs to go in roughly that direction, with orks you have to start out the game putting yourself in the way of good fortune, and when it comes, make the most of it.
The way most round these parts talk about the game, that seems to be a hard thing to get your head round.

>>44429453

Front looks like mcdonalds fries

>>44425684
Sold all my old that's what.

>>44432644
Orks, fucking autocorrect

>>44431743
No. I stopped playing 40k years ago.
But I have friends who still play it and I sometimes inform myself about what's new, hence why I came in this thread.

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>>44428392

>tfw still play 5th with friends

I pity the autistic, who can never know such joys

>>44432352
But the new Ork 'dex isn't fun.
Not in comparison to the previous ones, anyway.

>>44432747
So why not pull out the old books and start up a nostalgia/legacy editions league?
Personally I kind of hope that 40k will die so that more people will see this as a viable option. Like what is happening with fantasy.

>>44432777
>5th
Not the best, but definitely the last tolerable edition, and it did have some positives to it.

>>44432561
>implying winning isn't fun
>implying having a good army isn't fun

Fun is subjective anyway moron. You don't have some universal overriding definition for what constitutes fun.

Guess what isn't arguable, and can be quantified with cold, hard, data? Wins. Performance.

>>44433074
Fuck me you are right. I shall stop enjoying myself forthwith.
To The the porn! Laters!

>>44432857

I would prefer 4th tbqh but a lot of my friends started in 5th so we stuck with that.

>>44429570
Fair enough, that does sound a lot more characterful. Hell, the scratch-built stuff is the only bit that obviously flies in the face of GW's goals, so I don't see why they removed the rest of it.

The problem with the ork books is that they've been progressively removing entertaining elements for streamlined mechanics that are also functionally inferior. Even after nerfs, lootas are still the standard backbone of armies to be even viable against most armies. Orks lost even MORE of their melee support, which was already pretty shit. Almost everything that didn't have new models before the 7e book got nerfed, and the new shit they released didn't even have stronger mechanics. Flashgits are still a worse choice than lootas, the shitnauts look awful and don't do much on the table, and the new mekguns options are useless. (though that unit-type got huge buffs in 7e core rules, which makes the unit playable as long as you stick to cannons or lobbas, since everything else is trash, including zapps.)

The only way to play orks now is shootas and lootas, and buy some big distracting toy that you hope your enemy will spend the first turn shooting at so your lootas don't get killed.


You don't have to be a tournyfag to understand that warhammer is an inherently competitive game. The hobby aspects and lore of orks are all great fun, but an underpowered book has been getting senselessly nerfed since fucking 5th edition started, from core edition rules to erratas.

>>44433121
>not enjoying porn

>>44431552
Just saying that it's the best we could hope for because GW's regular current design studio is kinda shit.

>>44426658
GW aren't competent enough to deliberately make shit broken to sell it. Don't give them that much credit.

>>44432216
>>44432561
Do you not realize that having the faction that you like to play as get repeatedly crushed in games because of game inbalance is actually detrimental to having fun for most people?

>>44431358

I will happily trade 12" and 1 Strength for the sheer points drop Looted Wagons got and the ability to still stuff dudes inside at full transport capacity.

What they did to Looted Wagons is actually one of the few good things about the new codex, and it's not even technically in the codex. I think the only thing that would make it even better is if they could be taken in squadrons, but I guess that's what detachments are for.

If you want to feel nostalgic and feel like orks still have a soul then check this. One of the best styles I've seen for orks.

http://www.irondogstudios.com/

>>44434666
>they've been progressively removing entertaining elements for streamlined mechanics that are also functionally inferior
What's worse is that while they removed fun stuff from all the 7th codices from Orks to Blood Angels, they did a full 180 and gave Eldar all kinds of fun new rules to Aspect units and their Exarchs.

The worst offender is Swooping Hawks who gained the ability to do pseudo-melee attacks to flyers, something people have been dreaming of for Stormboyz to have since 6th introduced flyers.