Horus Heresy/30k general

So, who else has now read Pharos? What did you think of it?

Where the hell are the rules for Destroyers? I've been flipping through HH1 and 2. Can't find them. Starting to feel stupid.

>>44398665
You pirated them didn't you?
For what ever reason the one in the Mega is missing that page

IF Veterans with flamers and Sniper in rhinos as troops, yay or nay?

If I put an infantry unit in a storm eagle, does that satisfy the Deep Strike requirement for Coils?

When can we expect the next batch of legion rules?

>>44399982
February, wouldnt surprise me to see a preview in the next FW event which I believe is in January.

>>44399993
Do we know what legions? They just released Thousand Sons bits so I assume those guys will be getting rules, but anyone else?

>>44399998
Read the FAQ.

>>44398481
It's been about a year and a half since I read Black Library's HH series. Are they at the battle of Terra yet?

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>>44400145
not even close bruv

>>44400145
>It's been about a year and a half

Its been like 7 years since HH started, I think we're a bit past the mid point as "soon" Sangui and bro Khan head to Terra and bump fists with the Fist.

>>44398481
>>44398552

Robutt Girlyman confirmed as Traitorus Secondus Edition.

>>44400241
>7 years

I will correct myself, its been 9 years and soon to be 10 years since Horus Rising.

Impressive.

>>44400605
>BL HH will take longer to come out than the HH took to happen
Classy GW.

>>44399695

Anyone?

You can tell me no

>>44399695
>>44400895
Does coils say they need a *dedicated* transport with deepstrike, or any transport with deepstrike?

>>44401048
Dedicated transport or deepstrike

>>44401048

It says infantry must either infiltrate, have a dedicated transport or have the ability to deep strike.

If they're in a storm eagle they can deep strike in it, so I was wondering if that would do it. It certainly keeps with the theme. Might be worth emailing FW about

Seems like the best setup of AL Headhunter squads is to keep them on foot to retain infiltrate (I would almost always choose Scout from the list of Mutable Tactics), and leaving them pretty bare, only purchasing the suspensor-webbed heavy bolter.

Please, in your usual fashion, tell me all the different ways this idea is retarded.

And then tell me what you think about Lernaens, because I don't even fucking know where to start with those clowns.

>>44398665
HH1. I got my copies from TPB, copies there should be complete.

>>44401185
They can infiltrate while inside dedicated transports. Then give them scout to infiltrate 12-18" then scout 12" then move 6" and disembark 6" and blast something. It's the same trick Mor Deythans use.

>>44401185

Head hunters are surprisingly good in melee, especially with counter attack and preferred enemy. Remember they have hammer of wrath because of their grenades.

Lernaens are essentially vanilla terminators who can't take lightning claws but in exchange all have volkite weapons for extra dakka and WS5+stubborn. They're also not really much more expensive than normal termies. The conversion Beamer is a meme option for when you take fortifications for some reason. Take the plasma blaster

>>44401185
>and leaving them pretty bare, only purchasing the suspensor-webbed heavy bolter.
What else would you take? Five point Combi-bolters for a unit with BS5 and PE:Infantry?

You might want some Sergeant upgrades if that's your bag, but they're pretty well set up as is.

>Ultramarines and Girlyman confirmed to have brought the Nids to this galaxy

Waytago, smurfs.

>>44400577
>>44401300
>Ultramrines confirmed for reason Emps almost lost because they were too busy dicking around and holding back DA and BA by running his heretical second empire instead of helping out.

It's like they want us to hate him.

>>44401296

Tbh the sergeant can have a power dagger, bolter and power fist for 10 points senpai. That not awful

>>44401341
15 points, the fist is only 10 if you trade out the dagger.

But yes hardly awful, there's also the ever popular meltabombs and artificer armor.

>>44401341
>>44401296
>>44401258
>>44401232
This all helps. Cheers, boys.

>>44401365
Yeah, was thinking Meltabombs on the Prime just to increase the targets the squad can threaten.

I'm a filthy betrayal at Calth pleb. I'm building two 10 man mounted Tac squads. Headhunters worth making 5 or 10?

>>44401459
If I build 5, I'm building the remaining 5 PA legionaries I have as various consuls and maybe a PA praetor - ordering some Alpha Legion upgrade bitz, wanna be able to fancy some dudes up.

>>44401459

Build 10, but honestly senpai for AL it's not bad to consider 2 Calth boxes because you'll need at least 3 tactical squads for Coils. The other 30 PA can be head hunters, specialists and heavy support teams.

I do recommend 10 head hunters. I would try 20 infiltrating once just to see what happened

>>44401612
Coils is sweet, and I wanna play it (and I'm curious as to what other Legion units Coils users like to use for Rewards of Treachery), but considering I'm playing pretty casually/narratively with friends from my hometown on my occasional visits there (no HH players in my area) and that I have to put away my hobby money a little at a time (wageslaves unite) it'll be a while till I can drop money on another BaC box and I'll probably be forgoing using a Rite of any kind until I have the requisite units for Coils.

>>44401704

No worries on that end. Pride of the legion works fine for AL and the Calth box, AL specifically were always fairly plainly armored and adorned so your vets and tacticals can definitely look alike.

So you're telling me that Leman Russes existed in 30k but the Chimera chassis didn't? Even those its an old as fuck STC as well?

R8 this shit list M8s

Imperial Fists, 1750pts

+ HQ +

Consul Delegatus [2xPlasma Pistol, Power Armour] RoW: Chosen Duty

Master of Signals [NAKED!]

+ Troops +

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 1 [10, 2xFlamer, Sniper, Rhino, Sgt with a combi-flamer]

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 2 [10, 2xHeavy bolters, Sniper, Rhino]

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 3 [10, 2xMeltaguns,Tank Hunter, Rhino, Sgt with a combi-melta]

+ Elites +

Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon]

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Heavy Support Squad [Missile Launchers]

Medusa Siege Gun

+ Fortification +

Imperial Bunker [Ammunition Dump] (Devastators and HQs go here)

>>44401300
>>44401339
Fucking what?

>>44401459
Honestly, I run 8 because they're just so expensive and it leaves room for characters to pop into their ride with them.

>>44401888
I r8 it a Stop posting about your dual pistol Delegatus, it keeps making me want to make a dual plasma consul for no good reason/8, m8.

Congrats on the trips 8.

>>44402011
Epilogue of Pharos

>>44399993
>next FW event
Is the Horus Heresy Weekender, 5th-6th Feb.

>>44402094
Speaking of Gunslinger just found out that the Seeker Strike Leader can have dual pistols. I would rather him be able to take a combi but hey, still neat.

>>44402256

FW might also show off some new stuff at the Warhammer 40th Birthday event Jan 2-3rd.

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>>44402278
Not gonna lie, part of me wants to make a gunslinger heavy army. Maybe if I ever start those Dark Angels.

>>44402310
>the Warhammer 40th Birthday event Jan 2-3rd.
Warhammer died at 39! Your waifu is dead, dead!

But seriously, why was AoS such an abortion of timing?

>>44402443
>Warhammer died at 39! Your waifu is dead, dead!
>But seriously, why was AoS such an abortion of timing?

Uh...this HHG dude. Stay on target.

>>44401300
>>44401339
It's as I always suspected.

>>44402465
Did Gold Five ever actually get a name?

>>44401888
giving your opponent a secondary objective to kill your Delegatus and then giving him 2 Plasma pistols and no Artificer Armour sounds like a recipient for disaster to me

>>44398665
I fucked up the first time
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cdx4r2u5l4pr0/hh
is the only one of the 3 copies i had that had p195, the destroyers in it.

>>44401888
Swap the Delegatus for a Praetor with Pride of the Legion. For 15pts you are buying a greatly improved profile and artificer armour.

Your main theme is clearly the BS5 sniper-bolter squads. I would not buy all those special weapons except for perhaps heavy bolters. Equipping them somewhat for CC would make some sense.

Take a Mortis Contemptor. Contemptor are more of a cool choice rather than a good choice to begin with but the regular version is even more expensive.

Imperial Fist devastators with lascannons are the best you will get at cracking heavy armour even when compared to some specialised vehicles and LoW. It's counterintuitive but they're even worth it points wise. And you will be looking at AV 14(15). Being able to crack that from 48" away is a luxury few legions get.

Buy an ammo store rather than an ammo dump on your bunker.Same effect, cheaper.

>>44398665
What are some of the better ways to run these guys anyway?

The full kitted 10 dudes with rad missile launchers, jump packs and melta bombs with phosphex, artificer and maybe a power fist/ weapon on the sarge is the most appealing atm.

Creating my AL list for 2500 points using my RoW. I've got 210 points available and I'm undecided one which Legion specific unit to take, but it needs to be something quick and melee heavy like Jump pack Reavers or Night Raptors. What would HHG suggest? Strongly considering Reavers with axes and packs.

>>44404044
Run them however you want, they're not a great unit.

>>44404044
I run then at 10 strong, jump packs, double rad launcher, and a power axe and single phosphex on the sarge.

You'll never get to throw more than one phosphex.

Never take meltabombs. You're hunting infantry and automata, not vehicles. Sure you can use MBs on the automata due to them being a MC but unwieldy will get you killed. Better off using krak under the rad effects and having dealt some radphage wounds.

'Course I'm RG so Furious Charge+Axe+Rad grenades is great. Even the rest of the guys wounding marines on 3's is good. Sure you can take a fist for ID anyway but that +1A is worth for me. I also favor Strike Captain Maun a lot so his big no-scatter deepstrike bubble makes them better too.

Outside of RG I would do rhino, double phosphex and double radlauncher. They can plink out the rhino top hatch and go around hunting scoring units.

They get better in ZM as well as in a Raiding force for Raid missions.

>>44404236
>double phosphex and double radlauncher
remove double phosphex, I need sleep

>>44404236
>>44404253
Thanks for that. I'm planning on running them in my World Eaters to work in tandem with my other units in assaults. I'll drop the melta on them but run them with jump packs.

am i right in thinking that theres no real downside to giving my primus medicae a refractor field instead of a boarding shield if hes with a unit of suzerains?

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>>44401339
I can buy this.

>>44401300
Wait, how and why?

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what the fuck

How do you deal with spartans, it seems like it pretty much impossible to destroy them before they deliver the payload kitted out with armoured ceramite and a flare shield?

>>44404581
So... is the video about red Word Bearers or purple Emperor's Children?

>>44404556
See >>44401339
The Pharos incident (involving the Smurfs and the Night Lords), which happened during Imperium Secundus, sends out a massive signal pulse of some kind, which the hive detects and causes the Hive Fleet that would later eat the Ultramarine 1st Company to divert and take a direct course for Ultramar. This probably sped up the full scale arrival of the 'nids considerably.

>>44404589
I think that's the Word Bearer advent video, so WB armour (ie. deep red).

>>44404658
So it's pretty much "local man ruins everything" with Rowboat Giddyman?

>>44404762
Pretty much, yes.

>>44404946
Correct but i have heard that he uses a New E-Mail or something

>>44404976
Thanks, I have two, just the at was a little unclear.

>>44404762
>>44404784
So did Roboutte or Magnus fuck up more?

>>44398481
Why is the mega link missing the most important rule book? I don't need 10 GB of fluff I just want the normal Legion rules + units.

>>44405102
Magnus doomed his legion, Roboutte doomed a couple billion civilians in Ultramar alone, not even counting how much damage the Tyranids did on the way in.

>>44405119
Scanman is working on the red books, they'll come eventually.

>>44405123
Tyranids were summoned by Astronomican as codex says.

>>44405174
As theorized 10,000 years later.

Pharos clearly brought hivefleet Behemoth, if not necessarily all of the hivefleets.

>>44405174
newly released HH book Pharos disagrees with you. Now which of the two is canon, I'm not going into, it could be either, it could be both.

>>44405218
>>44405219
Pharos was active for several years, Astronomican is working for ten thousand, which is most likely to attract attention?

>>44405123
The Hive Fleets are not really stopping so they are still doing massive damage.

>>44405314
The pharos was brighter and clearer than the astronomican

>>44405314
Well, the Tyranids just kinda needs a general direction and they will keep going for thousands of years. The rest of the fleets will follow if the Hive Mind decides there is good eating to be had.

>>44405314
Pharos was a big sign saying there's good foods if you keep driving in this direction.

The astronomican is google maps for reaching guy fieri's restaurant on Terra.

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>>44405369
Oh I agree. But Behemoth was the only one to converge onto a point like this.

>>44405432
That's also a potential cause, yes.

>>44401880

Might not be that it didn't exist so much as a better alternative was available.

>>44405432

Pretty sure the idea of the beacon attracting the Tyranids was in place before Pharos, the book only confirms it.

After all the Scythes of the Emperor's homeworld was Sotha and it was wrecked by Tyranids.

>>44404762
It was actually Dantioch that overloaded the Pharos in order to deny the NLs victory

>>44405405
And Behemoth is still part of the Hive Mind. So if Behemoth knows they all know.

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>>44405432
>still thinking that the authors are the ones that make the creative decisions

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>>44398481

Pharos shitposting aside, how does one play a Son of Horus army? Everything just seems stacked against them; mediocre LA, poor-to-average uniques, middling characters and a horrible Rite. Even Horus, though he smacks the shit out of any other individual, is still slow and exclusively-melee bullet-magnet.

Maloghurst is the one shining example I can see of a legitimately good unit. Cheap as chips, comes with a banner, Scoring, and gives you pseudo-Pride with none of the downsides, as well as simultaneously allowing a Rite proper.

You'd then have the option of building an army from either Veterans or Reavers. Veterans seem to be better in pretty much every way though; Sniper is essentially Assassin plus a better version of Banestrikes, and they're cheaper per-model. You lose Outflank but gain better shooting weapon upgrades.

Does this seem like a good place to start? Always taking Maloghurst and basically treating them as though their LA is always having Veterans as a Troops unit, rather than the extra attacks or reserves bonuses. Throw in some Dreadclaws for Turn-2 charges and you've got a decent basis for an allied contingent alongside Auxilia/Cults.

>>44405432
ADB went on an immediate tirade last night on how he didn't agree with making Pharos the reason for Tyranids and that he was overruled by other higher ups.

>>44405788
Seems like a solid strat, though you strictly do not need to take Maloghurst, of course. The biggest upside to Sons of Horus seems to be looking cool.

>>44398481
So do Raven Guard Tacticals have the green half-shoulder, or not? Conflicting sources on it

>>44405942

If you want them to, they do

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>>44398665
Here's a cap if you can't find something else

>>44399695
It fulfills the transport requirement, I'm not sure the DS stuff makes a difference after that point.

>>44401888
Seems fun enough. Nice compact structure, presents a consistent armour face. Compact isn't an issue given the low points cost and the fact that there are a lot of units in general. I'd say it's pretty swell actually, an exemplary start-up list.

>>44404044
There isn't really, the base cost per model is simply too much. If that were reduced then a whole plethora of tactics would open.

Destroyers are internally well-balanced and a fun and interesting concept. That's why they're a particular shame when they're overcosted. (also I think they should be able to destroy objectives on the table to deny anyone capturing them and tie in to their background, but that's just me)

>>44405432
I'm okay with the Pharos being the reason the Tyranids decided to check out the Milkey Way. I like to think they decided to stay for the Emperor.

>>44405788
They're pretty much an unfocussed mess at the minute. It's to be expected from one of the very first legions designed, but the other three have all fared better (Death Guard most of all) than the Sons.

The central theme of the Sons of Horus is that ultimately they are the single best attackers and conquerors among the LA. They may not have left the territories in a good shape but they accrued more than any other in the Imperium. Their flaw was not having enough to them besides endless conquest, which defines Horus's jealous fear of the post-Crusade Imperium. So how to reflect that in mechanics?

My wildcard recommendation would be (and I know this is going to get a reaction) to either grant all units Preferred Enemy in some criterion - perhaps each unit picks a specific enemy unit and that's their target, or a unit type or FO slot, or PE against everything for shooting or combat, or perhaps just in general. Failing that, units should be granted, either at a very cheap cost or for free, a bonus point to either WS or BS, maybe both. The reasoning is that the SoH are just simply very good fighters. They're sort of alround, but not in a tactical and structural way like the Ultramablues, or in an unpredictable could-be-anything way like the Alphas. They really did have a reputation as the best, and while it wasn't always deserved it should feel that way.

Other solutions come to mind, but all of them are contrived compared to a simple basic score bonus. Objective bonuses or stuff about deployment might form other avenues for the basic LA rules.

>>44401185
Calling Lernaens clowns lol they get a WS of 5 power axes standard the harrower gets all the alpha legion goodies and all that for 3 extra points per model what is not to like ?

>>44401185
>>44406627
and they get stubborn and volkite weapons to fuck shit up

>>44406469

It says dedicated transport, not just a transport

>>44399695
>>44401048
>>44401100
Unless that unit can take a Storm Eagle as a dedicated transport, it would not.

The rules for the Coil are quite clear.
Everything must either Infiltrate, Deepstrike or be in a Dedicated Transport.
If this is not an option, you can not bring that unit.

There is always the option of taking "Mutable Tactics" for the Infiltrate requirement, but that won't always be a good idea.

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Random question, which pigment would work best for representing the sand and dust of prospero?
A, A+B, B, C?

>>44406795
I would like to add to that and just say this only affects infantry your vehicles walkers etc are not affected by these limitations

>>44406968
I thought Dreadnoughts were affected?
But indeed, vehicles are entirely unaffected by these rules.

>>44406968
My mistake, indeed Dreadnoughts are not affected, only Infantry. Ok, not sure how I came to that conclusion (had that wrong in my head the whole time).

>>44405850

Where was this

>>44405432
Its a pretty cheesy move. I really hope its not an underhanded way of one day justifying Tyranids in HH tabletop.

>>44405432
BL is going to reach a point where people collectively accept nothing after "_______" book/year/edition is canon.

>>44405174
No.

Only Leviathan was stated to be attracted to the light of the Golden Throne. You got to remember that the Light doesn't cover the whole galaxy.

>>44407139

It probably isn't

>>44407139
Considering the 'nids don't show up until 40k, I doubt we'll see them in 30k.

>>44407172
I think I did that when they started putting out the Nagash books.

>>44407272
Aren't there a bunch of remants of previous fleets on Fenris and Catachan?

>>44407332
not necessarily actual hive-fleet remnants, but certainly animals that may once have been vanguard species of the Tyranids.
Hell, Catachan is basically a failed tyranoformation world. Something must have interrupted the fleet before they could harvest.

>>44407394
Yeah, they are probably disconnected from the Hive Mind. I'll just take a wild guess that the Eldar or Old Ones halted previous fleets. Or the Warp storms during the Age of Strife wreaked earlier fleets and the invasion was put on hold.

>>44407468
Old Ones probably, Evolution is not quick, not even at the accelerated rate a Tyranid could manage without a Norn Queen.

>>44407496
It could also have been the Old Ones running experiments on Tyranid lifeforms for whatever reasons. Maybe they severed them from the Hive Mind to begin with to see how they would manage?

>>44407523
Perhaps, not sure if there is any lore on the subject.

>>44407564
Well, if they ever decided to expand upon it, I'm sure it would be underwhelming. Imagine if BL decided to make a HH size series on the War in Heaven.

>>44407602
Would they give the Necrons or the Eldar the unbearable daddy-issues?

>>44407602
They wouldn't be any way of doing it justice, so I fervently hope they don't try...
That would also be a LOT of xenos to introduce, humanity wouldn't even exist yet.

>>44407621
And give the C'tan and Old Ones waifus.

>>44407631

The real challenge would be shoehorning Tau into the setting somehow.

So /hhg/

Starting imperial fists, and I'd like your input, what would you play

>armored company
Mech vet tac squads, predators, sicarians, lightnings and bikes
or
>seige breaker company
Breacher squads, dreadnoughts, quad mortars, terminators and artillery

>>44407621
Yes, with reptile people that's even less empathic and more emotionally detached than the Emperor. Necrons will create the C'tan simply because they wanna build absent parents and there will be threads about how Nightbringer did nothing wrong.

>>44407647
How... They'd basically be looking at a world that had newly evolved life, period. Tau society is not that old in the 40k universe, let alone if we go back ~100 million years or so.

>>44406795

Sure but an infantry unit in a storm eagle can clearly deep strike. That's what I'm getting at.

It's more so Im not shoe horned into infiltration as my mutable tactic.

>>44407272
>Implying BL won't publish a story about one of the legions fighting a small force of never before seen xenos, most likely aboard a space hulk, who are actually genestealers and/or other nids.
>implying said story won't either end with both sides wiping each other out, thus insuring the Imperium has no record, or that it is one of the traitor legions just before Istvaan and they find some kinda secret artifact aboard the space hulk, so they cover the whole incident up.

>>44407031
B&C thread on Pharos. He compares Pharos's contraction to the Tyranids similar to the idea that Darth Vader built C3PO. A connection that just wasn't needed.

>>44407631
Oh, they will fix that by having a time traveling Emperor broing it up with the Old Ones for 15 books where they become the father figure he never had and they teach him how to create the primarchs.

>>44407673
Yes, an infantry unit in a storm eagle could deep strike.
However they would only be allowed to start the game in that transport if it was their dedicated transport.

Otherwise they need to board it at a later time.
That is in the big rulebook somewhere, I'm sure.

>Necron Dynasties were described to have watched the Great Crusade surfing across the galaxy
>The Triarch Praetorian have monitored human evolution from the muck to an intergalactic
>Trazyn claims he is a friend of Girlyman
>Still no mention of Necrons in HH lore

Being a Necron dude is suffering.

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>>44407172
>BL is going to reach a point
>implying people aren't already that way even about GW fluff

>>44407272
ids habbening

>>44407672
There are 1,000+ other species that were annihilated during the Great Crusade. Plenty of them are spread across many star systems. Just pick one to represent the Tau.

>>44407672
>>44407955
>>44407647
In the Blood Angel omnibus, a Tau expedition fleet are sucked into the Warp and thrown out on Fabius Bile's path.

Via Warp you can justify anything. Just imahine the Warp threw them into the past.

>>44408062
Except that's a bullshit excuse. I'd rather have a completely made up race that fits in coherently.

>>44408088
It isn't

Time travel is a thing in 40K. For example, 40K Cypher entered a warp rift and got transported into 30K from 40K. The Caliban series was a clusterfuck of time paradoxes.

>>44408119
I don't deny that it exists. I'm saying it's a lazy, "the warp did it" excuse that shows no creativity.

>>44406947
prolly a+b, but yuo can use some c on the same base as well i guess?

I wish I knew more about pigments :/

>>44407272
It wouldn't be unreasonable for advance parties (genestealers and maybe a FEW other things, no larger than a lictor) to have arrived by 30k..

>>44407947
I basically started ignoring any new fluff in the mid 2000's because a lot of it was just copy pasta I read before and the authors just didn't seem as witty. I bet the Dark Eldar fluff revision was Rick Priestly telling Phil Kelly word for word what to write.

>>44407699

Eh, it doesn't really bother me since from what people are saying the beacon on Pharos only caught the Tyranids attention. I don't see anything suggesting that their main draw didn't become the Astronomicon and that the beacon on Pharos was anything more than a flare.

>>44408555
>I don't see anything suggesting that their main draw didn't become the Astronomicon

The Astronomicon does not extend outside the galaxy. It doesn't even shine in the far off areas like the Ghoul Stars and the Eastern Fringes.

What put it in your head that the Tyranids wouled be drawn by something they cannot see outside the galaxy?

>>44408621
Yeah, if anything this covers up a plot hole.

>>44407394
>Something must have interrupted the fleet before they could harvest.
They call it Catachan.

>>44408729
No I don't think Catachan was as bad before the 'nids got to it. The hyper-trophic jungle flora and super aggressive fauna are hallmarks of Tyranoformation, so if anything the planet was probably rich in life and green but normal before they arrived, they tried starting the usual routine of tyranoforming and then digesting and feeding, but got interrupted during the Tyranoformation stage, I doubt the planet itself could do that, but an outside force might.

>Long have we known of the Devourer. While the majority of the necron race slept away the aeons, his great majesty Szarekh, the Silent King, journeyed far and wide beyond the borders of this galaxy. Such unspeakable things did he witness as cannot be adequately articulated in our noble language, nor any other.

>The most dire of all these extragalactic enemies were the tyranids.

>For countless cycles he has sought to repel this threat. In his wisdom he has observed them, studied them and committed them to oblivion in all but the final, decisive deed. He has brought them to battle on a hundred worlds, ravaged their slumbering fleets out in the cold, measureless void, and even united the more fractious, warring dynasties so that our mutual interests might be protected.

-From "Word of the Silent King"

What I want to reconcile with the Pyros fluff is (see above).

Was it before or after the Silent King found them and started ravaging their fleets while they were sleeping.?

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>>44408783
>but an outside force might.

We call him Private.

>>44408498

Why exactly would you think Priestly had anything to do with the Dark Eldar?

I honestly don't have a problem believing it was Philly Kelly and Jes Goodman behind the whole thing.

>>44408621

That they were drawn to Astronomicon was at least one of the prevailing theories. It's also part of the crux of why Pharos is bad according to ADB.

>>44408851
If (and that's a really big IF) Sly Marbo is an Eternal who was on Catachan the millions of years ago the last time the 'Nids got close to it, then yes, he might have.

>>44408854
Rick worked on the previous DE codex with Phil.

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Has anybody asked FW about the Thousand Sons paintscheme?

>>44408988

I see him credited with doing the second edition Eldar codex, but not not Dark Eldar.

Apparently the only DE codex worked on before the fifth edition one was a revised edition of the third, the main authors being Jervis Johnson and Gav Thorpe.

>>44408994
Saved it when it was originally posted a couple of threads ago.

Challenge mode on: FW did not say which clear red, so assume it's Tamiya as usual, or their own Angron clear red.

>Metallic Scheme:

>It is black undercoat, airbrush with Iron hands FW paint leaving the lower parts of the armour plates black, airbrush upper parts of the armour plates with runefang steel as a highlight.

>Then a few thinned layers of clear red are airbrushed all over, waiting for the previous layer to dry before applying the next (so it would be useful to paint large batches of marines at the same time).

>Shade the recesses with nuln oil and then weather the edges with runefang steel.

>The gold is retributor gold, shaded with seraphim sepia and highlighted with runefang steel.

>The brass is runelord brass, shaded with seraphim sepia.

>The eyes are painted black, single line in the centre with white and then washed with FW clear green paint.

>The white on the bolters and legion icon is celestra grey, ulthuan grey and then white highlights. The hollow tactical arrow is from the Iron Warriors transfer sheet.

>>44408854
>That they were drawn to Astronomicon was at least one of the prevailing theories. It's also part of the crux of why Pharos is bad according to ADB.

Fan theories. It was never been in the fluff.

>>44409049
Thanks anon, now to translate that into vallejo :/

>>44408498

I'm like this about daemon hunters and grey Knights. The Daemonhunters codex was fucking gold in terms of lore

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So I'm just starting 30K and I'm looking at the point costs for units and I was wondering why so many of them have such a high point cost for the minimal size. For example it's 150 points for the first 10 tac marines when they are only 10 points each or 125 poitns for the first 5 veteran tacs when they are only 15 each. Did FW make a mistake with the point values or was it on purpose?

>>44409445
Because the emphasis is on large units.

>>44409445
It was done on purpose to counter-act the common Many Small Units doctrine from 40k.

A minimum sized unit is a relatively large investment, increasing that unit to maximum size far less so.

As such they encourage larger units.
Buying certain upgrades at the Squad level at a fixed cost also encourages this.

>>44409445

It's to stop people playing MSU and encourage bigger blobs. More hordes, more bodies, more explosions and bigger carnage. Also involves a higher risk for Sweeping, which really highlights the lack of ATSKNF.
Frankly it's something that GW should have introduced a long time ago, because outside of Killpoint games or psychic powers, MSU is almost always the superior option to blobbing.

>>44409472
>>44409486
>>44409488
That's actually really cool, so it's kind of like how it was in the Renegades and Heretics codex then.

>>44409514
pretty much. Large groups of infantry are actively encouraged (where possible of course).

Are ten man tacticals in rhinos as useless as it seems?

>>44409581
They're one of the few scoring units in the game, so no, they're not useless.
And with Fury of the Legion they can put out a surprising amount of firepower.

>>44409581

> Be almost 200pts
> Drive into range
> Unload 10 Bolters--> 2 kills
> Enemy uses Fury and almost wipes the squad

They are useful for getting you 2 Scoring units for less than 200pts. Alpha Legion require them for Coils, which can be really nice.
Otherwise generally no, wisdom is to either treat Tacticals as a minimal tax investment, or go full-hog with 20, Apothecaries and Artificers.
Even the Scoring thing is done better with allies. 50 Fearless Inducted Levy say hello.

Which legions do you think have the overall most interesting and fun rules/units?

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>>44408783
>>44407394
>>44407332

>>44409445
It's to encourage large unit sizes that were typical during the Crusade and the Heresy.

It also makes "buy for whole squad" upgrades better

>>44405432
What's the story behind this?

>>44409799

New novel 'Pharos' that is set during the Horus Heresy and reveals why the Tyranids are attacking.
The Ultramarines had a secret psychic beacon hidden in Ultramar. Because Ultramarines needed a new storyline to justify why they weren't at the Siege of Terram we've now got the Imperium Secundus storyline where Guilliman tries to build a second Imperium, believing the Emperor to be dead.
During the Heresy this magical space beacon is destroyed and unloads a shock-pulse of psychic energy. This pulse is detected by the Tyranids floating in dark space, who then turn towards the milky way and invade. Essentially, the beacon is the sole reason that the Tyranids noticed us and it took them 10,000 years to arrive.

Old fluff is that the Tyranids were following the Emperor's psychic beacon on Terra. By keeping him alive, the Imperium was simultaneously lighting a massive flare that said 'Eat me' to the Hive Fleets.

>>44409684
AL, I also like IF as they really make a point of being the original vanilla marines and making all things vanilla really good.

250: Legion Fire Raptor, Armoured Ceramite, Independent turret-mounted Reaper battery
or
340: Legion Spartan Assault Tank, Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

Sparta will be transporting Gal Vorbak in it.

Don't have a Deathstar HQ. I have just under 2k pts as of now, looking at next big addition. I rarely see Aircraft so leaning towards that, but our group lacks enough to take on a Spartan currently.

>>44409924
So guilliman is as much of a traitor as Horus as he keeps several legions away from Terra when the Emperor needed him the most. If Dorn wasnt as stoic as he is he'd be popping several veins.

>>44409924
It doesn't even make any sense, Girlyman pronounced Sanguinius the new E and then Sanguinius went on to terra, what was Girlyman doing?

>>44409924
>Old fluff is that the Tyranids were following the Emperor's psychic beacon on Terra. By keeping him alive, the Imperium was simultaneously lighting a massive flare that said 'Eat me' to the Hive Fleets.

That was never true.

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>>44409924
>Old fluff is that the Tyranids were following the Emperor's psychic beacon on Terra.

Once they reached the galaxy. I'm not aware of anything saying it was what brought them here in the first place.

>>44409924
I thought this was already been stated before. Well, maybe the tyranid part is new. Wonder what sort of beacon it was, if it's more powerful than the Astronomican.

Meh, BL has already fucked the pooch so hard they make space wolves look well balanced citizens, so this newest forging of the narrative doesn't surprise me one bit.

>>44409988
>Once they reached the galaxy.

Where does it say that?

>>44409684

I'd say Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers or Ultramarines.

Night Lords have a fuckload of rules going on but include gems like +1Init at night, dogpiling to get backstabs, massed Fear stacking and always planning for night attacks. Terror Squads are also the shit with all those Volkites, Infiltrate and Preferred Enemy. Finally they have easy access to Drop Pods without burning a Rite, opening up combos that are completely impossible for most Legions. Like Podding in a squad of Rending Sniper Bolters.

Alpha Legion have got Mutable Tactics, which alone provides enough versatility to catch the opponent offguard. Coils is probably the single coolest Rite in the game with its focus on mech and stealing units. Headhunters aren't great but Lernaeans are funky with those Conversion Beamers, and all the xenotech / daggers / banestrikes are fun to play with.

Word Bearers are mostly up here for the Gal Vorbak. God damn I love them. Plus the shitloads of warp dice you can throw, the massed hordes of zealots, or the potential for Daemonic allies. Completely different playstyle to any other Legion when you go all-in Chaos.

Finally, Ultramarines have the most engaging LA rule IMO. It forces you to work for it in a Tau-style approach to target-painting, but the end result is a significant boost to both firepower and charge ranges. Plus they have 3 unique units, all of which are extremely usable and thematically appropriate. Look good when painted up properly too.

>>44409969
Being a treasonous power-hungry scumbag.

Khan, Dorn and Sanguinius, none the purer and most loyal!.

>>44409977
See >>44409988
>"Little do the High Lords know that it is the Astronomican itself that lures the Tyranids towards Terra..."

>>44410067
Only Hive Fleet Leviathan which is already in the galaxy.

There is no fluff saying that the Astronomican led the Nid to the galaxy.

See (>>44408621)

I swear you guys.

>>44409969
Taking his sweet time about it.

Well that, and the fact that a large portion of his fleet was destroyed

Also, the Blood Angels are known for going fast, so I wouldn't be surprised if (like the Scars) it also applies to their fleet as well

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HQ-400
175: Zardu Layak
105: Legion Centurion-Chaplin, Artificer Armour, Retractor Field
120 Herald of Tzeentch, Disk of Tzeentch, Mastery lv3

ELITES-450
50: Apothecary x1, Augury Scanner x1
400 Gal Vorbak 10x (+5), Power Mace 2x, Martyr with Artificer Armour and Lightning Claws

TROOPS-1135
325: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), 20x +1CCW, Sergeant with Power Sword, Dark Channeling.
300: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), 20x +1CCW, Sergeant with Power Sword
330: Ashen Circle 10x (+5), Power Axe 2x, Iconoclast with Artificer Armour, Phosphex Bomb 1x, Dark Channeling
90: Pink Horrors 10x
90: Pink Horrors 10x

HEAVY SUPPORT-515
175: Legion Sicarian Battle Tank, Sponson Lascannons
340: Legion Spartan Assault Tank, Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

400 HQ
450 Elites
1135 Troops
515 Heavy
2500 Total
Zardu joins the Gal Vorbak in a Spartan, and hit like a ton of bricks/Deathstar. Chaplin and Apothecary join the Legion Tactical without Dark Channeling. Ashen Circle just kill specialist squads not with 2+svs. Sicarian is all around anti-light vehicle. Deamons are there for objective (secured) grabbing, and more summoning.
Not sure if I should scrap a unit of Horrors to get another Apothecary for the other tactical, Grimoire of True Names on the Lv3 Tz Herald and Melta Bombs on Tacticals and Chaplin. I play in a competitive scene that is just getting into HH.

>>44410142
I guess the red ones do go faster...

>>44410105
Navigators can't see the astronomican beyond that range. Doesn't mean more sensitive creatures cannot pick up something.

What made the beacon in Pharos so much more potent? Why doesn't it get talked more, because surely a psychic blast that echoes way into the void of space would cause some people to notice it. Why didn't the formation of the Eye of Terror get the Tyranid attention, it was powerful enough to blow a hole in reality.

>>44410239
Because BL wants to blame smurfs for tyranid invasion.

>>44410277
Everyone apparently needs their own skeletons in the closet.

>>44410239
>Navigators can't see the astronomican beyond that range. Doesn't mean more sensitive creatures cannot pick up something.

No, that's the range of the astronomican. It does not extend any further than that.

>Why didn't the formation of the Eye of Terror get the Tyranid attention, it was powerful enough to blow a hole in reality.

The Tyranids were simply out of range.

>>44410321
Only the lesser legions.

The fists are pure in their zeal.

>>44410006
the beacon isn't necessarily more powerful than the Astronomicon, but it was at the edge of our Galaxy (where Ultramar is), rather than all the way on the other side on Terra.

>>44410348
>It does not extend any further than that.

So there's just a straight up barrier. One moment the beacon is coming up fine, one step further and it's good as gone?

>The Tyranids were simply out of range.

[citation needed]

>>44410348

> The Tyranids were simply out of range.
The Fall of the Eldar was only about 200 years before the destruction of the Pharos. We know that the 'Nids are slow as shit because it took them 10,000 years to turn up.
We're asked to believe that the Pharos was so powerful that it reached into dark space, but the fucking psychic supernova that was the Fall went undetected only 200 years prior?

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>>44410037
It doesn't, but it's the interpretation that makes less of an assumption about the Astronomican's range.

>>44410041
Not that anon but I almost started Word Bearers because of the Daemonic shinannigans. I ended up going Ultramarines and I like their play style. I'm building up a unit of Fulmentarus with Reaper Autocannons and might make a second unit for Cyclone Launchers.

How are the Locutarus? They look real cool but I don't know how to use jump infantry.

>>44410384
That only expands the range in the direction Ultramar is located. Leviathan and Hydra are coming to the galaxy way closer to Terra than Kraken, Gorgon and Behemoth.

>>44410398
It's a pillar of light. It can be measure in length. It's limit is the Eastern Fringes and other far away areas like the Ghoul Stars and Halo stars where the light of the Astronomicon does not reach.

>[citation needed]

That or the fact that Warp pulses don't travel fast enough in the silent void.

Wasn't the Pyros thing described as a quantum flare of energy?

>>44410424
Then they just missed it.

>>44410457
Going with what the fluff says is not an interpretation of anything. You're assuming that the astronomican just stops, clips out of existence the moment you go one step beyond what's said to be it's range.

How is it that Imperial ships can navigate with the astronomican in Tau space at the furthest reaches of the galaxy from Terra, but Ultima Macharia, situated way closer to Terra than the Damocles Gulf, has fallen outside its light?

>>44410424
I think the difference is that the opening of the Eye of Terror was on a warp frequency, while the Pharos was described as working on a quantum principle.

>>44410457
Why Iyanden moved through Ultramar?

>>44410568
>It's a pillar of light.

It's a psychic emanation perceived as a pillar of light.

>It can be measure in length.

What does the length of the "pillar" have to do with how far it can be seen?

>It's limit is the Eastern Fringes and other far away areas like the Ghoul Stars and Halo stars where the light of the Astronomicon does not reach.

Think you mean navigators can't see it.

>That or the fact that Warp pulses don't travel fast enough in the silent void.

[citation needed]

And then how was the beacon in Pharos suppose to reach into the void so well?

>>44410629
No idea what you two are arguing about but would just like to point out that the Pharos is completely different from the Astronomican, since it works on advanced quantum physics shit while the Astronomican is psychic based

>>44410629
>It's a psychic emanation perceived as a pillar of light.

That cannot be seen outside the galaxy. It's limited to being inside.

>What does the length of the "pillar" have to do with how far it can be seen?

Everything.

Provide proof that that the Astronomican that extends outside the galaxy or can be seen from the outside.

You can't.

>Think you mean navigators can't see it.

Nobody it just stops. The light of golden throne does not reach those places.

Now it's your turn to provide that that fluff only about navigators.

>[citation needed]

Warp travel in areas of emptiness slow to a crawl. Areas such as those affected by the Necron null matrices. There is no or little life to feed the Warp in the void.

And then how was the beacon in Pharos suppose to reach into the void so well?

Superior technology or Perhaps it wasn't a psychic flare.

>>44409951
Guilliman was acting under the rash assumption that Horus an co. already conquered Terra. He believed the Ruinstorm blocking out the Astronomicon was a sign that the Emperor was already dead. Between the belief that Terra was already in Horus's hands, and that trying to navigate a fleet during the ruinstorm would be near impossible, he believed that attempting to retake Terra would be another Istvaan

>>44410779
>he believed that attempting to retake Terra would be another Istvaan

Thats some god damn heresy right here, the true sons would go re-take Terra at any cost BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! Which is what Sangui and Khan end up doing while Guilliman sits on his ass being a fucking traitor like Horus as he sabotages the defense of Terra by staying behind instead of rallying his brothers into the reconquest of Terra.

Khan, Dorn and Sanguinius, NONE THE MORE LOYAL!.

>>44410761
provide citation*

>>44405942
Most recent source is book 3, theres a page dedicated to legion iconography

Why the fuck does everyone think that what drew the nids to the galaxy is in the galaxy in the first place?
Assuming the nids are from another galaxy the amount of time that it takes for them to get from one galaxy to another is far far more than ten-thousand years. Hell Andromeda is 2.5 million light years from earth and the Tyranids move much much slower than the speed of light to get here.
Sure Pharos might be the reason Behemoth took a bea(hemoth)line to Macrage and The Astronomicon is probably the reason that leviathan is going to Terra but the reason that they are in this galaxy at all is pre-planning on the
part of the Hivemind in the ''Point the Hive fleets towards the nearest galaxy and blast off to adventure '' sense.

>>44410761
>That cannot be seen outside the galaxy.

By navigators.

>Everything.

That doesn't answer my question. You can have a big light source that's not seen very far and you can have a small light source that can be seen very far. Show me some number on the length of the astronomican's pillar and how it correlated to how far it can be seen. Because I sure as hell haven't seen anything about it.

>Now it's your turn to provide that that fluff only about navigators.

You haven't provided any that's not from an Imperial perspective.

>Warp travel in areas of emptiness slow to a crawl.

Meanwhile areas of great warp disturbance make psychic communications and usage unreliable and almost impossible.

>Superior technology or Perhaps it wasn't a psychic flare.

Then why do people keep saying it is. And why would tyranids be interested in SCIENCE! beacons, that doesn't mean there's plenty of life. We already know that when genestealer cults grow big enough (meaning lots of biomass), they emit a psychic beacon that attracts nearby hive fleets to dinner. If their whole evolved homing is built on psychic stuff, what would a science beacon do? Surely quasars and black holes emit high energy particles and waves as well. So what exactly did the Pharos beacon emit that was so different that the Tyranids knew it meant food?

>>44410961
>And why would tyranids be interested in SCIENCE! beacons,

Tyranids have attracted by energy signatures from Necron technology. Energy generation means advance lifeforms. Advance lifeforms are food.

>>44410953
What ever happened to that old theory that the hivemind was in fact a C'than (the outsider)?

>>44410953
If their attack on the galaxy was planned ahead, why are they coming from all directions? Surely they could have advanced in a more unified front, but now you had fleets coming from underneath and various other points.

It's very possible they were drifting in space across the area of space the galaxy occupied when their interest was awoken an in a span of few hundred years they all descended upon the galaxy from all directions. I don't see anyone saying the Nids were eating another galaxy when the call came in. They were moving along, but something made them come at us. Or are you saying the hive fleets coming from different directions are coming from different galaxies and managed to coordinate their attack to withing a few hundred years of one another?

Am I the only one that think it's not important why the Tyranids showed up to begin with?

>>44410953
You

see

>>44408794

I am under the opinion that the Silent King did his best to obscure the galaxy from the Tyranids and herd them to another direction but Pyros screwed all that up.

>>44411091
Yeah, what's important is what are they running from?

>>44411026
>Tyranids have attracted by energy signatures from Necron technology.

Source? Because they're moving away from the Dyson's Sphere at the edge of the galaxy.

>Energy generation means advance lifeforms.

But not lots and lots of food. Hell, the Necrontyr home world was a barren, irradiated piece of shit. Hive Worlds have tech and people, but their surfaces are quite devoid of life. Meanwhile something like Catachan has biomass up the wazoo and barely any tech.

>>44411121
desu Pharos is exactly what trashes that theory since it states that they were floating in the void wen the were awakened by the flare
also
>>44411111

>>44410216
I'd remove the Spartan and put in a Fire Raptor.
I'd then reduce the Gal Vorbak squad to basic size, and use those pts for another Sicarian with Las sponsons.

>>44411127
>Source? Because they're moving away from the Dyson's Sphere at the edge of the galaxy.

"Shield of Baal : Words of the Silent King".

They avoid awakened Necron worlds but they can can stumble on them by mistake. Not all Necron worlds are barren and dead.

>But not lots and lots of food

What?

> Hell, the Necrontyr home world was a barren, irradiated piece of shit.

Irrelevant.

>Hive Worlds have tech and people, but their surfaces are quite devoid of life

The same story states that hive worlds are a favourite target of the nids due to them being a densely packed organic helholes of filth and flesh.

Tyranids have been known to attack Forgeworld as well.

>>44411040
Presumably everyone stopped given a damn after GW stopped inserting the c'tan into everything
>>44411063
You seem to be misunderstanding how big space is. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. And as such with space being so big why the fuck would a Hive Fleet be going in anywhere near a galaxy, say within ten-thousand years travel of it and NOT check it out?
As for the Hive Fleet appearing all over the place, encirclement tactics are a thing

>>44410953
>the amount of time that it takes for them to get from one galaxy
They could have been passing by, saw the flashy road sign and got off on the milky way exit.

>>44411063
>coming from all directions
Because surrounding your prey is a great idea

Anyway its all in Pharos now anyway

>>44411246
>They avoid awakened Necron worlds but they can can stumble on them by mistake.

So in other words they don't home in on them!

>What?

A few billion people is a drop in the ocean when Tyranids can scrape off several percentages of a planet's mass to get all the biosphere from it. A world with little to no biomass the nutrients gotten from just people is insignificant compared to a world devoid of people with with a rich biosphere.

>Irrelevant.

The fuck it is. You said high-tech means lots of stuff to eat. Yet I've just given examples of high-tech worlds with shit amounts of biomass.

>>44411256
>And as such with space being so big why the fuck would a Hive Fleet be going in anywhere near a galaxy, say within ten-thousand years travel of it and NOT check it out?

Conservation of energy. If there's nothing peaking their interest, maybe there's not that much to eat and they're better off drifting into the next galaxy, rather than waste all the energy it takes to change course, start producing ground units and attack ships, etc.

>>44411256
>encirclement tactics are a thing
>>44411283
>Because surrounding your prey is a great idea

But shouldn't the attack then be coming towards Pharos, if that's what lured them in? But you have fleets attacking various targets, Leviathan zooming right for Terra instead of Pharos.

>>44410424
It sounds like Pharos thing sent a signal detectable through the Warp and realspace. It's entirely possible that those two signals drop off at different rates and the Tyranids only detected the realspace one.

Though it'd have to be much more powerful than a supernova to get any special notice, and that would destroy anything nearby.

Or the Warp-borne signal had been set to a frequency (or whatever) that Tyranids were sensitive to, while the Fall and the Astronomican were not. Or it was directional, like a neuton star's pulse. There are options with real-life analogs.

But I'd still rather believe that the Tyranids were in transit for more than 10,000 years.

>>44411350
>So in other words they don't home in on them!

The home in on the Necron signatures expecting an advanced fleshy civilization to munch on. Instead they get a mouthful of Guass and Necrodermis.

>A few billion people is a drop in the ocean when Tyranids can scrape off several percentages of a planet's mass to get all the biosphere from it. A world with little to no biomass the nutrients gotten from just people is insignificant compared to a world devoid of people with with a rich biosphere.

No.

The Silent King used the hive world as bait for the Tyranids. The Nid focus was the humans and their organic filth.

>The fuck it is. You said high-tech means lots of stuff to eat. Yet I've just given examples of high-tech worlds with shit amounts of biomass.

Necrontyr home world contained fauna and wild life (Necrontyr farmed, hunted, and raised livestock). Not to mention billions of Necrontyr.

The Tyranids attacked the radioactive hell of the Cryptus system. Radiation does not scare them off.

>>44411457
>But shouldn't the attack then be coming towards Pharos, if that's what lured them in? But you have fleets attacking various targets, Leviathan zooming right for Terra instead of Pharos.

Behemoth went in a straight line towards Sotha and then Ultramar.

Once the Nids got a measure of the galaxy, it could have altered its tactical approach.

>For as much as the human empire considers itself the height of evolution and the antithesis of the tyranid race – if you can believe such a thing! – they are perhaps more alike than either of them can know. Dovetlan once likened the humans to insects. They swarm. They cannibalise. They live without real thought for the future or the past, beyond the propagation of their own brood.

>And they build hives. Literally.

>Teeming with human vermin and other, even more degenerate life forms, their settlements agglomerate around the points of industry and resource, openly abusing their worlds to feed the wasteful cycle of war and procreation. Even their ruling classes may live out their entire organic lifespan within a ten-kilometre area, such is the self-contained and parochial nature of the hive cities.

>In all our time, we have rarely witnessed such edifices constructed by a sentient race. They are stockpiles of humankind, in all its stripes.

>Concentrated cells of organic filth.

>Bio-mass.

>Bait.


--------------------------------------------

>Our cold bodies hold little interest for the Devourer. At best, they might be drawn to the more physical power sources utilised by our technologies, or defend themselves when we strike them. But fodder for their living ships, we are not.

>The hive worlds of the humans shine like beacons in comparison. The tyranids are drawn to such banquets with a singular, predatory hunger.

>The Silent King knows this.

>The beginnings of a plan began to form in his mind, as he later told us.

>He would lay a trap for them, and he would bait it with the humans.

The thread needed a Necron perspective.

>>44411506
>The home in on the Necron signatures expecting an advanced fleshy civilization to munch on.

Well, which is it? Did they go for Necron worlds or did they stumble across them? Why don't they go for awakened worlds if tech is what lures them in?

>The Silent King used the hive world as bait for the Tyranids.

Bait for what? To feed the tyranids or what? "lol jk, you got what wanted!"

>Necrontyr home world contained fauna and wild life

Even in the desert you can farm and hunt, but it doesn't make it rich in biomass.

>Not to mention billions of Necrontyr.

We don't have numbers on how large the population was on the planet. And, as I already said, even a trillion humanoids is barely a morsel compared to the entire biosphere of a planet, let alone a planet rich in life.

>Radiation does not scare them off.

No, but for example in the case of the Necrontyr world, it made the world barren and life hard. Necrontyr were weak and diseased. Not exactly prime candidates for nutrients.

>>44411652
I like.

>>44411546
Kraken did as well, to some extent, but vast majority of them don't seem to show any interest in going towards Pharos before they entered the galaxy.

>>44410953
Tyranids have FTL

>>44411730
>Well, which is it? Did they go for Necron worlds or did they stumble across them? Why don't they go for awakened worlds if tech is what lures them in?

Stumble. They pick up energy sources thinking it was a race of flesh and blood, then bam it turns out it was the Necrons all along

As for why they don't go after Necrons? Because they ate enough Guass and Necrodermis to understand it was a bad idea to go after the Necrons.

>Bait for what? To feed the tyranids or what? "lol jk, you got what wanted!"

To kill them, of course.

>Even in the desert you can farm and hunt, but it doesn't make it rich in biomass.

Rich enough for the Tyranids to harvest. The Tyranids showed no hesitation in harvesting Firgeworlds and other mostly barren worlds. They seem mostly to focus on advance lifeforms.

>We don't have numbers on how large the population was on the planet. And, as I already said, even a trillion humanoids is barely a morsel compared to the entire biosphere of a planet, let alone a planet rich in life.

Bullshit.

The Tyranids are drawn to density populated worlds even if the ecology is lacking.

>No, but for example in the case of the Necrontyr world, it made the world barren and life hard. Necrontyr were weak and diseased. Not exactly prime candidates for nutrients.

The people of Cryptus were irradiated dregs living in a system which ws bombarded by radiation endlessly by two twin red suns. It didn't stop the from crossing the deadly Ice wall just to eat them up.

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>>44410580
The fluff said the Astronomican is luring the Tyranids towards Terra, on a map depicting Hive Fleet Leviathan's invasion of the galaxy, but didn't say whether that was the reason they came in the first place. It just seems to me like the bigger leap is claiming that the Astronomican, or even traces of it, stretched out of the galaxy all the way to wherever the nearest Tyranids were, rather than simply giving them a point to home in on after they'd already arrived.

>You're assuming that the astronomican just stops, clips out of existence the moment you go one step beyond what's said to be it's range.
I assume that the Astronomican grows progressively weaker as it nears the limit of its range, and that said limit, wherever it is, is where it finally stops completely. Though even if it does go beyond, there's the question of how much.

Never thought about Ultima Macharia's relative position though, that's curious. But isn't it just evidence that the Astronomican struggles to reach the edge of the galaxy, even the edge areas closer to Terra?

>>44410626
They were actually attempting a pilgrimage to Macragge in the hope of paying respect to the Greatest of All Primarchs, but in the end had to give up on it.

>>44411091
It's not, but this is the internet. Though I'm tempted to just leave the matter here, especially given who else is currently still arguing about it.

>>44411457
>Conservation of energy
Exactly. The Tyranids would point themselves towards the nearest galaxy to the one they left behind rather than going past one galaxy to get to another
>>44411457
>But shouldn't the attack then be coming towards Pharos
There's a bunch of signals from that galaxy, so the hive mind sends one to investigate (and eat) whatever causing Pharos one to investigate the Astronomicon and one that splits itself to devour the cause of other, minor signals at once

>>44411824
For intergalactic travel, which is what I'm referring to, the nids hibernate and just drift they used the narvals for interstellar travel, once in a host galaxy.

Who can take a hand flamer in 30k? Theres one in the Tactical sprue in BaC but I cant find anyone with the option to take a hand flamer in the crusade army list, am I missing something? Its so tempting to just give a hand flamer to a Sgt for sniper flamethrowers but its impossible..

>>44411850
>They pick up energy sources thinking it was a race of flesh and blood, then bam it turns out it was the Necrons all along

What about worlds that don't have tech and are rich in biomass? They just pass them by because no signals are coming from them to indicate industry and technology?

>To kill them, of course.

By feeding them polluted hive world scum?

>Bullshit.

Well clearly you have the math to show the biomass of billions of humans in comparison to the biosphere of, say, the Earth. And how humans make up majority of it.

>The Tyranids are drawn to density populated worlds even if the ecology is lacking.

Because a massive population would indicate rich biosphere to support that population. That's how things are on most worlds. Outsourced agriculture, massive pollution and stuff like that probably doesn't factor in to tyranid tactics.

>Cryptus

If they already were there, why not eat them. But what drew them there? The promise of rich and diverse biosphere? High-tech? What?

>>44412071

thats fucking stupid

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>>44412111
Forgot pic, I hate having a bit that cannot be used..The fuck is up with that?.

>>44412166

That's just a regular flamer isn't it?

And even then, it's nice to have the plastic bits. Calth was made to be converted into any Mk4 wearing unit

>>44412018
>Exactly.

That's not at all what I said. If the galaxy is lacking in biomass, if there's nothing there to indicate to them that it's worth the time and effort to launch an attack, then surely they'd just drift on by to the next one. The amount of energy they would spend changing course and conducting the campaign for questionable gains, is not always worth it just because it's there.

>There's a bunch of signals from that galaxy

But they were already coming from multiple directions before coming into the galaxy. So how powerful are these signals that they can attract them to different parts of the galaxy when approaching it from the outside?

>>44412071
I know they can't use them when they are too close to the system but I never read anything saying that can't use them for intergalactic travel.
Wait did you mean intragalactic?
Intergalactic is between galaxies

>>44412152
Could Nids even use the warp to travel considedring SotW, could you just surround the Eye of Terror in Hive Tyrants cutting it off from the warp

>>44412232
nm mis read you on intergalatic other point still stands,

>>44412246
Why did you quote me

>>44412166
Does it combine with a bolter to make a combi-weapon?

>>44411895
Ultima Macharia used to be where the navigators stopped picking up the astronomican and where Macharius' troops decided "fuck it". By the end of M41 it has fallen beyond its range.

We have to remember that the Astronomican was lit up 10,000 years ago, in the wake of the Fall of the Eldar which cleared up the warp some bit. So it's possible its range was better back then.

>>44412284
>>44412187

God damn it, Im retarded, it is a regular flamer. Its kind of small but theres no other flamer except for the combis.

>>44412141
>What about worlds that don't have tech and are rich in biomass? They just pass them by because no signals are coming from them to indicate industry and technology?

They eat them if they are in the way. However, they will follow leads whenever they pop up. Energy signatures, psychic emissions, etc because they mean advance lifeforms for them to eat.

>By feeding them polluted hive world scum?

What does a hunter do to a baited prey? That was a stupid question, anon.

>Well clearly you have the math to show the biomass of billions of humans in comparison to the biosphere of, say, the Earth. And how humans make up majority of it.

Tyranids seem to be very interested in eating advance lifeforms than just eating biomass.

Or else why attack Forgeworlds and hive worlds then?

>But what drew them there?

Trillions upon trillions of irradiated humans living in density packed hive worlds.

They crossed a deadly space ice wall to get to them.
>Because a massive population would indicate rich biosphere to support that population. That's how things are on most worlds. Outsourced agriculture, massive pollution and stuff like that probably doesn't factor in to tyranid tactics.

Then you answered your own question. Why did you previous deny that Tyranids aren't attracted to hive worlds?

>>44412166
As the other anon said, that's just a flamer. You only get a plasma and bolt pistol.

>>44412305
Also the Emperor and the Astronomican are constantly being fed psykers, its going to get stronger and cover more of the warp as time goes on and more psykers are fed to the choir.

>>44412329
For fuck sake, it is hard for you people to read the fluff?

The Emperor is dying. His condition is getting worse and the throne is breaking down. The Emperor requites more psykers to be fed to him to sustain his guttering spirit.

The light of the Golden Throne is receding. In fact it receeded so much that Segmentum Pacificus is now in near complete darkness.

>>44412329
the psykers are feed to keep it going at current strength it doesn't just continue to grow stronger it has to use up that power given to actually work.

>>44412315
>What does a hunter do to a baited prey? That was a stupid question, anon.

Anon, hunters bait animals to find them more easily. I don't think finding tyranid hive fleets in space with Necron levels of tech is that hard, so if they just needed the Nids in one place to shoot them in the head, why couldn't they do it in any other place? Or put a beacon on a barren world to lure the tyranids in with the promise of advanced civilization with loads of biomass?

>Tyranids seem to be very interested in eating advance lifeforms than just eating biomass.

Then why do they strip entire biospheres from planets? I doubt that's very intelligent life.

>Or else why attack Forgeworlds and hive worlds then?

Why attack Necron worlds?

>Trillions upon trillions

Hundreds of billions is already top tier hive world, so check your numbers.

>Why did you previous deny that Tyranids aren't attracted to hive worlds?

I'm denying high-tech = loads of life being the reason why tyranids are drawn to a planet.

>>44411895

And as ADB also said:

>The initial "Oh, look..." for the Tyranids should probably be because of the loudest, brightest light in the galaxy, no? Something that would attract the Great Devourer's attention? Maybe something like the manifest psychic energy of hundreds of dying psykers every day channelled through the will of a living god acting as the salvation of Mankind and the reason Warp travel is possible. The Emperor's psychic might, reaching across fifty thousand light years of the galaxy, illuminating the darkness of the Warp. It's even called "the Ray of Hope", and it's heralding the galaxy's death from beyond the galactic rim. That's thematically beautiful. That's pure 40K.
>Rather than, say, an infinitely lesser artefact getting switched on and off.
>I mean, I get it. It's a hook and it makes yet another 40K trope have "more important" roots in the Heresy, and is yet another example of 40K ignorance, and the whole point of 40K is ignorance. But it's not particularly thematically strong, the same way Darth Vader building C3-P0 certainly helped continuity but didn't actually add anything. Sometimes the old lore we've loved for 25+ years is good enough not to change. The Tyranids coming to the galaxy, drawn by the Emperor's light, is awesome and a major factor in their lore since they started getting lore.
>Though, again, I feel comfortable enough revealing all this because eight squilllion of these conversations happen all the time (this one happened long before Guy even joined the team, for example) and winning or losing them runs about equal. Then there are the ones you win which you regret winning, and the ones you lose which you decide you prefer after all. It's a bizarre amount of fun.

>>44412329
>>44412404
People fed to the astronomican and people fed to the Emperor are two different people. The astronomican is created by the psychic choir screaming into the warp. It's made up of psykers not good for most other services. Their energies are channeled through the Emperor to enhance the beacon.

Psykers that are not even good for the astronomican are fed to the Emperor to sustain him. And as he grows weaker, he needs more.

>>44412404
>>44412505
This is completely inconsequential as the 40k fluff will never advance.

>>44412220
Nids leaving any particular galaxy would go straight to the nearest one they haven't already been to. Nothing says there is bio-mass there, but nothing says there isn't either so they go investigate if there is, attack it if there isn't they go to the next one they haven't been to.
>But they were already coming from multiple directions before coming into the galaxy.
Whose to say that?
Whose to say that all the Hive fleets didn't come from the same direction, Behemoth and was sent in first as probe and then the Hive mind organized the other fleets to attack the the galaxy from different angles?

>>44412464
>Anon, hunters bait animals to find them more easily. I don't think finding tyranid hive fleets in space with Necron levels of tech is that hard, so if they just needed the Nids in one place to shoot them in the head, why couldn't they do it in any other place? Or put a beacon on a barren world to lure the tyranids in with the promise of advanced civilization with loads of biomass?

Or put them in a spot where it's easier for him to get the killing blow. Somewhere to stage an ambush.

Just read the short story. See here for the excerpts (>>44411652). He didn't want just to lure the Tyranids to the planet. He wanted to lure the Blood Angels as well.

>Then why do they strip entire biospheres from planets? I doubt that's very intelligent life.

Priority intelligent life biomass. Second, any biomass.

>Why attack Necron worlds?

Under false pretense

>Hundreds of billions is already top tier hive world, so check your numbers.

It was a densely populated systems, not just one world. Trillions is a good estimate.

>I'm denying high-tech = loads of life being the reason why tyranids are drawn to a planet.

Tyranids will check any lead for life whether its energy signatures or whatever. It's safe bit that those leads will lead to a civilization ripped for consumption.

>>44412647
>Nothing says there is bio-mass there, but nothing says there isn't either so they go investigate if there is, attack it if there isn't they go to the next one they haven't been to.

Or, you know, send in scout troops and small fleets as you come close to the galaxy. Like genestealers and shit. If they don't report serious gains, move on. No need to launch an all out invasion just to see if there's anything to eat and waste all the energy.

>Whose to say that?

All the maps showing tyranid invasions of the galaxy? They're not coming as a unified front from one direction towards Pharos and then spreading once other sources attract them.

>>44412685
>Priority intelligent life biomass. Second, any biomass.

Is there a source for this? I doubt we see much in the way of tyranids eating non-colonized planets, because there's no grimderp in that.

>Under false pretense

Just like the attack on the hive world that was a trap.

>Trillions is a good estimate.

If it contained several of the biggest hive worlds in the galaxy.

>>44412571
It is consequential, you pillock. As you track through stagnant timeline of 40K, you are see the gradual mentions the worsening situation of Emperor and the Astronomican.

It disproves the posts of that guy saying that the Astronomican is growing stronger.

>>44412505
Yes, and? With state of the Emperor and his throne, it does not matter how many you feed it. The light is receding and darkness falls on the galaxy a sector at a time.

Hey guys, I think I'm retarded or going crazy but was there a 30k supplement to Heralds of Ruin floating around somewhere?

Looking at getting a kill team weekend up and running and I wanted to use my Iron Warriors. Its going to be mixed with 40k armies so Victory is Vengeance rules as an alternative probably won't work as well for everyone.

>>44412815
>Just like the attack on the hive world that was a trap.

Nope, re-read the excerpt again. Hive worlds are prime targets for consumption. All those humans with their filth, Concentrated in those hives. Delicious.

>Is there a source for this?

>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Dark_Imperium_(Anthology)&redirect=no#Hive_Fleet_Horror

The short story "Hive Fleet Horror".

>>44407659
I've thought it'd be cool to see a very generic IF army, as ask bikes take advantage of Disciplined fire. Using vet tacs along with bikes as a support, and tanks in the heavy slots, it could be cool

>>44412816
>Yes, and?

Feeding people to the Emperor has no effect on the Astronomican and feeding people into the Astronomican has no effect on the Emperor.

>>44412944
Feeding the Emperor and sustaining him allows him to guide the light and spread it all over the place. His decline is what causing the light to recede.

Or do you have another explanation? It cannot be that the Imperium is running out of psykers.

>>44412935
>Nope

Then how was it a trap, if they were going there already?

>The short story "Hive Fleet Horror".

2001, eh? Might actually have to check that one out.

RIP HH.

>>44412734
>as you come close to the galaxy.
So my original point, that the Nids preplanned investigating the galaxy from fuckhuge time ago was right?
>All the maps showing tyranid invasions of the galaxy? They're not coming as a unified front from one direction towards Pharos and then spreading once other sources attract them.
No you misunderstanding my point I'm saying all the Hive fleets came in from the same direction and then Hive mind directed them to encircle the galaxy.

>>44413003
What I mean is that feeding him all the psykers won't create the astronomican and feeding all the psykers into the astronomican won't sustain the Emperor. Both are essential to the astronomican itself, but they're separate entities and are fed with their own psykers for different reasons.

I've seen a lot of misconceptions about the astronomican, the golden throne and psykers being fed to them.

>>44411895
>They were actually attempting a pilgrimage to Macragge in the hope of paying respect to the Greatest of All Primarchs, but in the end had to give up on it.

Those aliens were performing gene exchange procedures with noble scions of Guilliman.
http://imgur.com/a/pfkAL

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>>44413380
Even Eldar weep at the fact they are not Ultramarines, knowing only that their future generations may be blessed to join them.

>>44409924
>>44405432
Full retard, this

>>44412571
After the Fantasy End Times, I wouldn't bet on that. But it won't be a good thing if it happens.

>>44412944
I believe they're one and the same - there's one room in which unwanted pyskers are sacrificed to the Emperor.

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>>44412305
>We have to remember that the Astronomican was lit up 10,000 years ago, in the wake of the Fall of the Eldar which cleared up the warp some bit. So it's possible its range was better back then.

True. Part of the problem is that the only sources mentioning the Astronomican's limits that I know of (or rather, that I can easily recall and check, without going through every publication that mentioned the Astronomican ever) talk about it in the context of the 40k era.

>>44412481
I really don't want to call ADB wrong - I appreciate how open he is, especially his willingness to share when the rest of the crew or the higher ups make a decision he doesn't like - and even agree with him to an extent, but

>The Tyranids coming to the galaxy, drawn by the Emperor's light, is awesome and a major factor in their lore since they started getting lore.
>a major factor in their lore since they started getting lore.
>25+ years

Is this actually true? As above, I can't claim complete and perfect recall of every detail of Tyranid lore from the beginning, but I don't recall the Astronomican attraction becoming a thing until that one sentence in the 5th edition codex. Am I wrong, is ADB wrong, or was it some ancient studio secret that simply went unwritten until 5E? Since I know at least some BL authors, the HH team in particular, are privy to those.

And got a link to that thread? I spent some time searching earlier but was completely unable to find it.

>>44415949
Now Cypher has two new flintlocks? Nigga be packin heat.

>>44409924
Aren't nids in Macragges Honour?

>>44416012
>Cypher gets a servo-arm fitted so he can fire all 4 at once

Truly the Fallen did nothing wrong

>>44410845
Sanguinius is the Emperor of the Imperium Secundus. Apparently Secundus didn't actually delay anyone at all.

>>44416583
>didn't actually delay anyone at all.
>Guilliman and Co showed up after Horus was defeated and his forces scattered

yeah no, fuck girlyman and his scumbag ways, if it wasnt for this then Dorn and Emps might have the help from UM and DA BUT NOO GIRLYMAN WANTS HIS EMPIRE!.

Brothers of the wall, none the more loyal, lesser legions need to step up their game.

>>44416653

Not their fault they were following orders from Horus who sent them away.

You're just mad the Ultramarine legion are basically the Galactic Partridges.

>>44416770
>Not their fault
>Guilliman convinces everyone the emps is dead
>At least 4 legions are on Ultramar when theyre needed in Terra
>Only 2 legions out of possible 4 end up reinforcing the fists
>Guilliman stays in his little empire and arrives after the Emps is dead

Guilliman confirmed traitor scum.

>>44416838
>At least 4 legions are on Ultramar when theyre needed in Terra

Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and who?

>>44416838

Nice BL retcons you got there.

>>44416146
Those are just random warp spawn.

QUICK
I need some legion/mechanicum relic power rankings

Would anyone be bothered if it was the birth scream of Slaanesh that brought the Nids to the galaxy?

>>44417211
Everyones>>>>>>>>>Dark Angels

>>44417013

Vulkan

>>44416012
Giga nigga please, those are obviously muzzle-loading bolt pistols.

Knights of Caliban, fuck yeah!

>>44417350
Honestly? It'd be alright. Chalk up another fuckup of the Eldar, and of course the poignant darkness on the already grim, not only did they doom their race they doomed everyone else as well.

Yeah I'd be fine with it.

>>44418404
Come to think of it, it would also have parallels to the idea that the Astronomicon brought them, in that the thing that allowed humanity to grow and flourish (the fall of the Eldar coupled with the blowing away of the war storms) is the same thing that will destroy them.

>>44418404
Nids can be potentially beaten, it's just going to require a lot of multitasking.

>>44398481
What's a good way to outfit an assault squad using Sons of Horus rules?

>>44418997
The fluff tells us that we have to unite against the Nids to defeat them.

Then it tell us we have to unite to defeat the Necrons

We cannot unite to defeat them all.

>>44419022
Why not just use reavers?

>>44419038
you unite with the necrons to kill the nids, then hope that they dont skullfuck you from behind like they did the C'tan, though honestly the silent king seems reasonable enough that that wouldnt happen

>>44419038
That's the multitasking I was talking about. The best way to do it is to get the Crons to handle the Nids, trick the Orks into taking care of Chaos, and during the meantime the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau can eat potato salad with a glass of lemonade while getting ready to sic the Orks on the Crons if they get uppity after the Nids are gone. Or just kill more Nids faster than the Hive Mind reclaiming biomass.

>>44419042
I already have Reavers. I want to swap them out on occasion since I have the models

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>>44413457

That is horrifying.

Night Raptors, Ashen Circle, or Jump Reavers?

>>44421328
ashen circle are the coolest

>>44421328
Raptors, why even ask. Circle is a shit.

>>44414158

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314909-book-xxxiii/

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Ok so Fellblade or a Glaive? let me know which one to get

>>44421978
both are awesome
i personally love the glaive, but i think the fellblade is generally better

>>44421978
>>44422021
The Fellblade is probably a little more versatile.

But I really like the Glaive from a "Rule of Cool" perspective. Just a giant beam-cannon burning its way through massed infantry. :D

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I like him, but torso dosent feel so Revan Guardy. I liked the whole tribal look from the HH books

Which is the best legion for playing against 40k armies? I want a 30k army but I don't think any of my local gaming buddies want to play anything other than 40k...

>>44422156
>>44422021
Think i will go a glaive, heaps of 3rd party top turrets that can swap out to make an easy fellblade but not so much on the glaive. Hurrah best of both worlds!

>>44421978

Glaive for looks Blade for usefulness.

Blade is better in 30k and has rules for 40k.

>>44422216

I consider myself an expert on marine bits and I don't recognize any of those parts except the shoulders and arms. Where did the torso and wings from that thing come from?

>>44422370

Nevermind just checked the blog. Looks like shit, GG FW. Only good parts on the Dark Furies are the recycled shoulders.

>>44422295
Find better gaming buddies.

>>44422216
I'll take 10

That puts me at 20 Furies; more than I will ever field. But hey. In in to [MAXIMIZE CASUALTIES]

>>44422295
Anyone of them. They're all baseline second tier compared to the formationclusterfuckandpowergaming that is 40k. Pick whichever one you'll have the most fun with and roll with it.

>>44422475
Do you think Alpha Legion would be a good pick if I want to be infantry heavy? The infiltrating thing seems really nice for having so many tacticals in the Calth set.

>>44422525
If you're doing Infantry heavy go Night Lords or World Eaters.

>>44422525
Yes.

>>44422538
>>44422538
I'm a big fan of both the World Eaters and Alpha Legion color schemes. What would make WE better? Alpha seems like it'd be good to fuck with people.

>>44422571

Alpha Legion can literally paint their army however they want.

Which legions do artillery, bombardment and other siege stuff best?

I also heard there is (or maybe that's coming in book 6?) a rite of war focused on artillery?

>>44423037
Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists are both Siege Masters in their own way. With the IW probably having the biggest Artillery fetish.

>>44412481
The guy sounds kinda like a tit and apparently thinks that 40k is all about muh tragic beauty rather than a string of ironic fuckups.

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which legion should I paint my BaC as?

>>44423394
Dark Angels.

>>44423394
What play style do you prefer?

>>44423417
flexibility and the ability for both range and melee, with a slight penchant for goes fast. So I suppose somewhere in the realm of Ravens, BA, Scars, Ultras and Alphas. With fists trailing due to no fast.

>>44423424
So.. out of those which colours and background do you like best?
Also I think Sons of Horus should be added to that list, all things they like to do (they're just not terribly good at it, rules wise).

>>44423515
Out of those I would probably cut Ravens. The other four though I'm quite stuck. Their backgrounds all appeal to me in that I both like heroics and operator esque moments. I suppose in that sense scars should be cut as well as they are more a great colour scheme to me.

I would have included the Sons of Horus but alas a good friend is already building a force.