/btg/ - BattleTech General

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Christmas art dump

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>mention to new gf that I play BT
>she gets me these for Christmas
th-thanks

>>44376302
[PURPLE BIRD INTENSIFIES INTO THE CAPPELLAN FEDERATION]

>>44376302
Your gf is a fucking hero. Wife that shit, jesus.

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>>44376302
cool shirt, anon

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that's it for now
enjoy!

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>>44376302
Awesome. Here's to your girl, anon

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Asked this question in the previous thread got a laugh but no real solid answer. So I picked up the intro box and want to branch out, I play Steiner, Word of blake, Clan wolf and Ghost bear and need a few good mechs to pick up. Basically Mechs that you kinda just want because they're pretty decent to have all the time.

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So has anyone here come up with a ruleset for Mexican Battletech?

It could also be a drinking game.

>>44376803
Basically the idea is that all the mechs are shoddy, so they fall apart and make the game quicker.

Some rules I was thinking of were taking damage when you run, taking damage when you jump, ballistics jamming for a turn on low rolls, rolling twice for criticals, things like that.

If you shout ARRIBA! while making a DFA attack you get a bonus to piloting rolls, missiles have a chance of backfiring, turning around, and locking onto the person who fired them, making ammo take up twice as many crits and not allowing CASE

>>44376803
>It could also be a drinking game.
Two shots whenever a gyro is critted, one for each motive crit on a tank. Shot of Fireball for each unit over 20 heat during the heat phase.

Alternately (and this is actually one I've played) multiple objective markers on the map, each one forces the other player to take a shot while captured on the capturing unit's movement phase and another on its shooting phase.

All weapons do 50% more damage, only allowing succession war era mechs, shouting OLE' when someone misses a kick gives them a penalty to their piloting roll

>>44377141
shot of engine degreaser everytime you get an engine hit. Every time you miss a kick and fall down, whenever you get a headshot, 3 shots if its a decapitation

maybe just a shot everytime you fall down.

2 shots for an ammo explosion, whenever you shoot someone the back you have to sing a verse of the mexican hat dance.

You could just use primitive tech, it does basically what everyone's describing

>>44377223

This seems about right.

>fall down
>take pilot damage
>pass out

>>44376789
There's a bit of a problem in that the overlap between those factions is pretty small; the bears and wolves have some, depending on era and the wob and lyrans both use the unseen, but that's about it

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>>44377208
Actually, I think this may be necessary...

A shot of "Flamer" seems good for engine hits, double for ammo explosions.

Other than that, I'd stay away from prescribing specific alcohols for drinking games...
Especially alcohols that are moonshine.

>>44376789
Kodiak, Atlas, Dire Wolf, Madcat, Warhawk, Catapult, (cause why not) Stone Rhino...

I don't about lights or meds, maybe Stormcrow or uller?

1 when you get hit in the head
1 when you fall down
1 when you get an engine hit
2 when you get gyro hit
2 when you get an ammo explosion
3 when you get your head blown off

shot of fireball when you go over 20 heat

You should also have to do something silly when each of these things happens, or you have to take another shot, like yelling Ole! when you fall down.

What would you put in a Clan Assault Mech Star?

>>44377593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOUilxJWm24

>>44377789
Clan Assault mechs :^)
tell us which era and which clan, Anon

>>44377789
5x supernovas armed with 6x clan large pulse lasers each.

>>44377857
Ghost Bear

>>44377896
laser reflective armor would put a major dent in that strategy.

>>44377857
clan invasion

>>44377937
isn't laser reflective armor advanced tech?

Better yet, say you had to face off against an assault star in a batchall, but all you have are light mechs. What would you bid?

>>44377789
5x Hellstars

>>44378071
>>44377896
ninja'd

>>44377913
Some of your options are:
Bruin
Executioner
Kodiak
Kodiak II
Kingfish
Marauder IIC
Viking IIC

>>44377994
What i mean, what is the smallest amount of lights you would send against them, and what types would you choose for your faction.

>>44378434
A full battalion of locust-1Ms, carrying a mix of incendiary, Thunder and regular LRMs

Merry Christmas, /btg

I'm off to Grorious Nippon for a month, so won't be around for a while. Have a good new year.

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>>44378879
pls buy and scan japan-only BT books thx

Also have fun and eat like crazy and thanks for the random allocation tables

>>44379340

That's a great idea, assuming it's long out of business (if it's still a going concern then of course I can't do that). What is generally available already, so I know what not to bother with?

>>44379414
Merry Christmas, amigo.

>>44378879
Merry Christmas and thanks for all the RATs

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>>44379414
I wasn't really being serious, but all Japanese BT stuff is out of print by 20+ years.

I believe they have their own versions of the BT boxed set (probably rules equivalent of our 2nd or 3rd edition, with standies instead of plastics), Citytech boxed set, and I think the MW RPG. The BT and CT boxed sets usually command a high price. There are also Japanese translations of Keith's GDL novels, 4 Japanese-original novels (pic-related), as well as a couple volumes of replays. The Japanese-original stuff and the GDL novels (not that anyone cares aout them) are probably Book-Off territory, though the game rules stuff is going to be harder to find.

>>44378879

Merry Christmas, man. Good luck, and bring Stormfury back some used panties or something.

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>>44379758
Also, the Mechwarrior RPG replays (for those not in the parlance, a replay is a published transcript of a gaming session).

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>>44379879
Cover of the first GDL novel and the spines of the rest

What's the largest mercenary unit that you've actually played in your games?

>>44380762
battalion strength

>>44380762
It was battleforce, so it's a bit less crazy, but a combined-arms brigade; two mech, one tank and one infantry regiment for the first few contracts. In 3049. We then ate smoke jaguar in the face and suffered approximately 70% casualties for everyone but the infantry, who only lost like 10%. We folded things into one combined-arms and one infantry regiment that happened to have way more transport than it really needed, so that's the more correct answer when speaking on a longer-term basis

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>>44376854
>Some rules I was thinking of were taking damage when you run, taking damage when you jump

Just play in a low gravity environment.

>>44376854
Don't make rules that are specifically un-fun.

>>44381669

I wish somebody had told CGL that. Every tech level lower than Clantech is boring and un-fun, and they should have gotten rid of them when Clan tech came into the game. Seriously, single heat sinks? What's the fun of not getting to fire all your weapons every turn?

>>44381880
Subtlety is a key part of successfuly trolling, anon

>>44381880
>What's the fun of not getting to fire all your weapons every turn?

Have you never heard of bracket firing?

I like going full Megas and hitting the "ALL THE WEAPONS" button as much as the next guy, but having to make strategic decisions about what guns to fire and heat management can be fun too.

>>44381922
its the targeting penalties that make heat stupid.

>>44381880
Gr8 b8 m8.

i finally got to entropy-based warfare

>Focht nodded at a man in a Federated Commonwealth uniform. The man's ebon skin spoke of his African ancestry, but his crisp and precise gait as he approached the podium attested to military upbringing and training. Victor knew that the man was one of Doc Trevena's analysts and Doc spoke highly of him. For Doc to let him make this presentation means the guy has a lot on the ball.
The Precentor Martial nodded at the man. "For those of you who have not met him, this is Dr. Michael Pondsmith. He is currently serving in the Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth as a Kommandant, though when not on active duty he is an instructor at the Sakhara Academy. His field of study is military history and quantitative analysis. His studies have found a model of warfare upon which we will build our assault, and we have asked him here to explain it to you. In this way we will all start with the same foundation. Dr. Pondsmith."

>"Thank you, Precentor Martial." Pondsmith's voice came deep and rich, instantly commanding attention. "The model of warfare I have been studying is known as Entropy-based Warfare. It was developed by Dr. Mark Herman, a military analyst and designer of military conflict simulations in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century. It adds a third realm of conflict to the usually accepted dual-realm model of warfare. The additional material this theory addresses has been, at various times, dismissed as difficult to quantify or only marginally influential; but the fact is that this model applies very directly and significantly in facing a threat like the Clans."

>>44382244
>Pondsmith hit a button on the podium's control panel and a yellow holographic circle appeared before the delegates. "Warfare modeling began very simply. One mode was taken into account, here represented by this yellow circle. It is lethality: the ability of troops to kill other troops and the effect of such power on the enemy. We all know—most recently from the Clan invasions themselves—that an enemy's ability to project lethality upon troops can make those who survive the attack crumble because of the horror and fear created by this projection of lethal force. For the longest time, lethality was the only element in warfare and, even up to the time of post-industrial military conflicts, it was the primary deciding factor in war."

>Victor saw a red circle burn into the projection and overlap with the yellow one. It bore the legend "Disruption."
>"As tactical considerations increased and became more necessary—because increased lethality and range accompanied military technological advances and increased the size of battlefields and wars—non-lethal and deceptive methods of causing problems for the enemy became valuable. If an enemy could be made to think you were going to attack at one place when, in fact, you meant to attack at another, his military might would be misplaced and wasted. Even keeping enemy troops on alert for an attack that never comes will have a serious effect on their ability to wage war.

>"The overlap between lethality and disruption comes from the advantage gained when command and control units are destroyed, or supply lines are disrupted. By a very specific projection of lethality, a target that affects the enemy's ability to respond can be destroyed. Kill a messenger relaying orders to a unit and that unit never moves. Kill a commander and that unit has no brain. While these units are by no means taken out of the battle, they are less than effective in helping to prosecute it."

>>44382259
>The black man pointed to the center of the room as a blue circle materialized and overlapped with the other two. "The Herman model adds in this third element: friction. It accounts for the damage done to a unit through wear and tear, both of maintenance necessary to keep it operational while on station and especially the problems caused by bringing the force to battle. Desertion, vehicle breakdown, taxing of fuel and food supplies, morale problems, and a host of other barely tangible factors fall into this realm. The green area of overlap between friction and lethality is known as maintenance attrition. It covers the inability of a force to repair damage and recover from a battle. The purple overlap between friction and disruption is called inertia and covers the damage done to a unit as it reacts to false threats and other deceptions.

>"The central area there, where all three circles overlap is the crux of entropy-based warfare. What it says is this: if you make the enemy move where you want him to move, hit key command and control units so he begins to lose command cohesion, then you hit him hard enough to shock his troops—and it's vital that shocking occurs—the enemy's troops will crumble. They literally won't know why they are where they are, they won't know what to do, and they'll be faced with enemies against whom there is no defense. If war is hell," Pondsmith concluded, "entropy-based warfare is Satan's sauna."

Man I wish we saw more entropy-based warfare in BT, it sounds extreme.

>>44382277
And then the Clans were so war that they couldn't even, and ComStar was win.

>>44378879
Merry Christmas you glorious bastard. Take care of yourself in Nippon.

>>44377986
depends on era. late republic or DA, it's considered standard tech.

bamp

>>44377994

>What would you bid?

A Star of Fire Falcon Bs. Then hope that I'm the one who gets to say where it's fought, so I can select a salt plain or other wide-open space without obstructions. Possibly an ice sheet, then I can cruise around at 8 hexes a turn while the Assaults are probably taking piloting checks if they want to go more than 4 hexes.

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>>44382277

>>44384370
No no, you don't bid on a 1 for 1. You'd have to be fucking crazy to take 5 lights against 5 assaults.

I'd take 5 fucking lances, at least.

>>44384370
Like basically what i'm asking is how many lights would be the MINIMUM to stand a chance against them before you would be willing to commit to a battle, and what types would you use?

Also, on a related note, has an IS power ever issued a batchall to a clan?

>>44382277

>Man I wish we saw more entropy-based warfare in BT, it sounds extreme.

No, it was pathetic. Which is why DirewolfV/Demerzel invented Combo-Mechs and Hyper-Entropy Warfare, to really give the WoB and Clans something to think about.

More seriously though >>44384377 is right. EBW basically Stackpole getting a boner for an idea, like the FedCom realising it could use its massive numerical advantages, and then having a FedCom character be the mouthpiece of the idea so he could point out how awesome it was and how only FedCom characters could be smart enough to understand and implement the GLARINGLY FUCKING OBVIOUS.

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CAN MONDO MECHS SURVIVE?!?

>>44384387

>No no, you don't bid on a 1 for 1.

Then you are not Clan enough, freebirth.

>You'd have to be fucking crazy to take 5 lights against 5 assaults.

The Fire Falcon B has two TC'ed ER Large Lasers and moves 8/12. In those environments it's generating a +4 AMM with +4 for the range and 3 for base gunnery assuming Clan Regular pilots- 11s to be hit, 12s if the enemy walked, impossible if they ran. In return they're hitting on 8s.

>>44384406

>Like basically what i'm asking is how many lights would be the MINIMUM to stand a chance against them before you would be willing to commit to a battle, and what types would you use?

There's always the Arrow IV UrbanMech, I guess.

>Also, on a related note, has an IS power ever issued a batchall to a clan?

A few times. The Clans rarely accepted because they got wise to the fact that IS forces would always use trickery rather than fight it in a way the Clans would see as fair.

Prime examples would be Tukayyid and the Great Refusal.

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>>44382244
>>44382259
>>44382277
Behold my mastery of Venn Diagrams, truly I am a Strategic Genius.

>>44384474
If you're the one issuing the batchall, then doesn't the defender get to pick terrain?

I mean, I'm assuming there is something on the planet that you want bad enough to throw a dozen lights to their doom.

>>44384533

In theory yes. In practice we have challenges where the attacker making the Batchall also said where they'd fight.

>>44384594
well they sure as shit aren't going to fight you on open terrain.

I'm still mad that they rejected my story about dinosaur poachers in the draconis combine.

>>44384754
It had bionic raptors.

How can you not want to read a story about bionic raptors?

What if you could put somebodies brain in a mech?

>>44384805
...They do put people's brains in mechs.

Along with all the other parts.

>>44384805

Then the word of Blake would design a whole new class of mechs around it.

Actually that's not far off from the celestial series anyways.

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I think I've finally designed a mech good for exploiting the C-Bill efficiency inherent in the compact mech quirk. For only 5 million space-bucks it's a 5/8/5 50 tonner with near-to-max armor and weaponry enough for a trooper. The BV is bloated as hell though.

>>44384728

>well they sure as shit aren't going to fight you on open terrain.

Why not?

People have given you some very reasonable responses and all you've done is come up with ways it won't work. If you want the assault force to win, just say so.

>>44380762
5 battalions, about 75% clan mechs, the rest twinked out custom mechs. (Don't introduce the clans to campaign games where most of the pilots are 1/2 or better with edge, bad things happen.)

>>44386664
I bet AtB is behind this

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>>44386694
Like so?

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>>44386694
Nope, it was back in the early Neolithic era. MegaMek didn't yet exist. For reference, pic related was the unit commander's personal ride, any similarities to the Penetrator are entirely coincidental because I made this abomination before the Penetrator existed. Included it with the 0/1 CO's stats so you can see how hilariously broken it was, considering that it predated BV1 it was getting tonnage matched. (Yes, I'm fucking old, dammit!)

>>44386849
Note that I don't do shit this munchkin these days, usually I field an entire lance for the price of this bastard.

>>44386849
Good God... heat neutral sniper energy zombie.

>>44382244
>>44382259
>>44382277
Holy shit this is brilliant.

But why did the author make such a focus of showing the character was black?

>>44384412
Weren't the succession wars just EBW anyway?

>>44379414
Merry Christmas, Xotl.
Japanese books of BattleTech are summarized in this fan site.
You'll be able to search from Amazon.com using the ISBN code listed.

http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Irregulars/japanese.htm

When viewed from the current eye There are a variety of misunderstanding and mistranslation, but had less people that can be verified at 20 years ago.

>>44388482

>But why did the author make such a focus of showing the character was black?

Michael Pondsmith was a guy who won a (charity) auction to have his name used for a canon character. Maybe he's black IRL?

>>44388592

Hence the "GLARINGLY FUCKING OBVIOUS" bit.

"Hey you guys, if we fight the Clans like we fight each other, it'll be easier to beat them than if we try and fight the Clans the way they fight each other!"

Gee. Fuckin'. Duh.

>new version of mekhq released
>download it
>it completely breaks atb battles
>cant customize mechs in the mek lab anymore

>>44388854
>Michael Pondsmith was a guy who won a (charity) auction to have his name used for a canon character. Maybe he's black IRL?
Like the Mekton and Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith? If so, yeah, he's quite black.

I'm planning to run a Battletech gameday at my FLGS.
We've got a couple of newish players who haven't seen too much action yet plus a couple of veterans who are interested in dusting off their old stuff. However, we're having some trouble getting together to actually play some games regularly.

Therefore, this would basically be an event where players can just show up with a certain-BV list (with maybe a few other restrictions) and we can play some games.

What kind of BV and other limits would you guys recommend?
Something like 5k BV, no pilots better than 3/4, no gunnery/piloting difference greater than 2, canon designs only is what I had in mind personally.

>>44385070
We'll finally get Wobbie Protos. They are basically Clan protos that have had the EI cradle ripped out and replaced with a Mechwarrior brain wired up to a C3i computer (Nothing else from the mechwarrior, just the brain, and the fluid retention layer to stop the brain drying out, and a artificial heart to keep the brain supplied with blood.)

>>44389479
WoB players are the worst

>>44389479
>Finally get wobbie protos
But the WoB did have protos, they were just clan ones with a quadruple amputee MD pilot stuck in them and directly wired to all the controls.

>>44391319

Forget it, man. It's probably the dude who thinks that the IS has the technology not to just make its own Protos, but to surpass Clan tech in doing so, because munchkins gotta munch and those C3ed, Stealth-armoured Protos aren't gonna build themselves.

>>44389369

I would also set an era or rule level restriction, to avoid someone showing up with gear that has mechanics which will bog down play. Possibly "Tournament-level rules to 3085 only" or the like.

If you have a lot of new players, it may even be worth limiting it to Introductory-tech designs only.

>>44392142
Yeah, I've been thinking about stuff like that.

Several of our new players are rather interested in playing the Clans, so Introtech only is probably not a good idea.

>>44392172
How about a split? One or two clantech v clantech games, the rest 3025 IS only

>>44391975
by now the IS has to be surpassing Clan tech. Massively greater resources, brainpower, decades to reverse engineer, refine and manufacture, etc. All while the Clans, meanwhile, suffered a massive brain drain by their own scientists revolting and being purged.

>>44389369

Don't have them show up with forces. Design (number of expected players+3) forces yourself, and YOU make sure they're balanced with each other, and none of them will result in bad feelings. Then have your players randomly determine who picks their force first. With a few extra forces, even the guy who picks last won't feel totally jobbed, because there's still several to pick from.

Oh, and you should pick last, as you've organized the forces.

Do force generation like this until you've established a group and a culture that you can trust with "bringing their own forces." This way everything is a lot easier, and there's a LOT less chance of munchkinry and/or pissed-off-edness among your players. You want to put that sort of gamesmanship off as long as possible when you're putting together a new group.

>>44392473
>by now the IS has to be surpassing Clan tech.

Nah, because as much as there are books and occasional release of new eras most of Battletech is a pretty static setting. If innersphere tech development were actually going to model incremental improvements in the fundamentals we'd be doing things like multiplying Endosteel chassis weight by some function in which construction year was a parameter. We don't and the lasers never get better. In the setting it's like once Ford Made the T 4 cylinder engine no-one tried to make a better 4 cylinder engine. Except the autistic invaders.

Tech will advance in a stepwise function when they finally decide circa 32xx that '3rd Gen' is officially a thing. The fan base will rally to ostracize the 'Dirty Thirdies'

The IS will never surpass the Clans because the tech base actually models a level of development and not the development of a region.

>>44393946
>The IS will never surpass the Clans because the tech base actually models a level of development and not the development of a region.

Which is indicative of the difference between a game and real life. Trying to model the latter is going to be an exercise in futility and irritation anyway, so sticking with the former is clearly the better choice.

>>44393644
That does sound like it could be good, although a few of players might want to use their own stuff.
Maybe I could just talk with them about force creation and have them make a few lists with me to ensure they're balanced.

Although I'm not sure I myself am experienced enough to decide if something is balanced or not.

>>44393984
>Although I'm not sure I myself am experienced enough to decide if something is balanced or not.

Well, you can always post samples up here for extra review. People'll be generally OK with telling you *why* something is crazy-strong or weak. BTG was pretty helpful in that regard for my last couple of revisions on the Introbox Faction Lances project.

Elseways, the thing with just you doing all the prep work is that if something is broken, it's more likely to be broken across *all* the forces. Say you really value having a lot of guns on a Mech. That tends to lead to having IS XL engines, to save weight for guns. XLs make a mech fairly fragile (not the unplayable deathtrap you might think from some people's posts, but it definitely doesn't help). If you like having XLs on all the Mechs so that have more guns, then it actually kind of averages out across the various forces. Whereas if you have 3 players who brought their own forces with XLs, and one guy who brought a force that was Awesome/Guillotine/Grasshopper heavy (energy zombies), the one guy is likely to win and everyone else'll be pissed. Does that make sense?

My suggestion for balancing the overall forces to be played by relatively new players would be:
1) Balance by BV2. All the forces should be within about a 100-200 BV range.
2) Look at the armor totals; if one force has 30 combined tons of armor and the other five all have 50 combined tons, the 30-ton force needs revision.
3) Look at the total throw-weight of guns at ranges 18, 12, and 6. If a force has a huge advantage at 2 or more of those ranges, it needs revision.
4) No more than 2 headcappers in a given lance (Guass, cERPPC, AC/20; cluster weapons don't count).
5) No "park and play" Mechs. Awesomes, Hellstars, Devastators, Longbows, etc are all great things, but they aren't *engaging* for new players. If you must use them, make sure there's one and only one in each and every lance.
6) No unit spam.

Hope that helps.

>>44394293
>Well, you can always post samples up here for extra review.
Yeah, I might do that then.

>The other balance suggestions
Yeah, those seem to make sense.

I'll see if I can at least get one certain player to not use the Awesome he's fielded in all his games against me so far.
He did get a bounch of Clan stuff at Essen, so he might want to try out some stuff like his new Hunchie IIC instead. That might be interesting as well.

>>44393984
If y'all don't mind, I have q few suggestions to go with NEA's
1: I would recommend including a bunch of mechs with widely varied weapon arrays like the Thunderbolt, Merlin, Shadow Hawk, Warhammer or Wyvern so as to let new players learn more weapons and how to use different ones together
2: include as many "iconic" mechs as you can; if there's clans there has just about got to be a Madcat, and atlases are a good idea for at least one IS unit
3: include at least one big, heavy or assault-class brawler/melee design, because they are immensely satisfying to use and make for great stories after the fact; a banshee, victor or highlander would be perfect

>>44394619

Also good suggestions. Especially 3. Landing a charge from a Banshee - especially on something like a Blackjack - is one of those moments that absolutely gets people to come back to the game.

If you're starting with 1 Mech each, I agree with #1. If you're giving them each a lance, you can do "weapon variety" across the entire lance, rather than on each individual unit. That will have the same teaching effect, and can be easier for poeple to keep track of (THIS Mech uses 2 LRM launchers, so I only have to think about how LRMs work when resolving this fire. THAT Mech has an AC/20 and some MLs, so I don't have to worry about cluster rules when running that Mech.)

>>44394619
>Shadow Hawk

I get wanting to teach newbies about weapon variation, but let's not get carried away. The Introtech Shawks are atrocious.

>>44395130
It's alright as a fourth member of a lance where the other three mechs are more specialized

>>44395130

>atrocious

>mfw I took a stock Shadow Hawk and a stock Marauder to a tournament where everyone else was using a Wolverine-M or Marauder-D if they had anything at 55 or 75 tons and came second on points

Yeah, no. Not even that anon. The Shadow Hawk's not going to make anyone's list of the top 10 most optimised designs in the game, but it can always do something to help its lance. If nothing else the common perception that it's shit will get most opponents to ignore it for far longer than they should.

>>44394293
hey NEA, if the Snow Raven fleet and the FWL fleet in 3067 (counting all named Theras as operational for good measure) met in combat in their entirety, which would win?

>>44395526

The Ravens have a lot more big bruisers than the FWL, and have both the York and Conqueror-Class carriers.

Ravens are gonna tear PURPLE BURD a new one.

>>44394619
>>44394753
Big, stompy stuff and iconic designs do seem like obvious choices.

With the intro box contents (including Beemer and Mad Cat), a Battle lance (extra Banshee and Zeus, plus Orion and Hatchetman), a Reseen Rifleman and a couple more Clan designs (Dasher, Uller, Puma, Thor and Marauder IIC) I should have a pretty interesting arsenal to build forces from.

If my recent order arrives in time, I could add a Locust, Firestarter, Raven and Black Hawk to that selection.

>>44395699
Two Conquerors and one York? Purple burd would tear them a new one.

>>44395699
Three of them vs four Theras, with one more still in production? Nah, PURPLE BIRD stomps.

Now, PURPLE BIRD and Snowy Magpie vs the rest of the universe? That might be an even fight.

>>44396607
With the scenario as phrased, it's SIX Theras.

Assuming that the first few succession wars weren't so effective at wiping out all the warships and yards for em, what would the naval situation look like by the early 3000s?

>>44397687
Purple bird's reigning supreme, four Drac aerospace carriers being set ablaze by FedRats in the Battle of Cassias, entropy-based warfare everywhere, and mercenary regiments carving out their own small states.

>>44397687
Each state has a handful of Corvettes and destroyers being used for commerce raiding, and that do most of what little warship-on-warship fighting still happens. A few might even still be produced every so often. There'd be a couple frigates that only ever get used on the rare big offensives, and a couple of cruisers and battleships that never see any use for fear of losing them. A few of the bigger merc units might have one, two at the absolute limit, but these would in extremely poor shape. The periphery states might have a couple in only slightly better shape than the mercenary ones. Possibly the wolves would have brought their Vincent or Lola III along, because it wouldn't stand out QUITE so much. The clans might even end up facing something resembling actual naval opposition

>>44397909
Also, the Taurian Concordat would have several dozens of warships at least since they're technologically at parity with the Successor States and still had functioning shipyards.

>>44398034

Ooooo, NICE bait.

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>>44398054
What are you talking about?

>>44398054
Eh. Guess you've missed the last few threads, but we've actually had a higher-than-usual run of low-quality "look at me I'm a taurianfag" bait lately after our local taurian-hatefag jumped on an actual taurian fan a few threads back

>>44398054
Way too obvious

>>44398255
It's more Medron-mocking but sure.

>>44398255

Ah, I see.

I suppose the real question is whether it's possible - without being outright told - to tell a genuine OF-compliant Taurian fan apart from the "me a taurianfag cause TC has better tech than the League" level baiting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with the Periphery getting some nice toys so they can meaningfully participate (and I realize I'm in the minority on that), but anyone who either insists that any Periphery nation is anywhere near a blanket technological parity with the Successor States, has a meaningful WarShip fleet, or has Medron's avatar saved with a "Medron Pryde.jpg" filename is intellectually crippled at best, is most likely downright delusional, and certainly has a poorer grip on reality than Herb does of the concept of "proportional responses" and Coleman does of "small business finances and the ethics thereof."

>>44398334
We have a bunch of good, realistic Taurian fans here. 9 times out of 10 if you see someone saying something Medron-tier they're probably either baiting or just joking around.

>>44398404

NEA did say "OF-compliant", though. That disqualifies pretty much all of our regular and real Taurian fans. It sure as hell DQs me.

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>>44398334
>or has Medron's avatar saved with a "Medron Pryde.jpg" filename
You'd kinda have to be intellectually crippled or downright delusional to take anyone seriously who posted with that image to begin with.

>>44398416
That's the point, though. Our regulars are reasonable enough that isn't difficult to tell one apart from the other here. If one needs to be told then one needs to lurk moar.

>>44398334
>certainly has a poorer grip on reality than Herb does of the concept of "proportional responses" and Coleman does of "small business finances and the ethics thereof."

kek. Saved for use on the OF.

>>44398422

Medron's verifiably posted here in the past, actually. I'm reasonably sure that a good quarter of the Taurian bait is actually him looking for validation.

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Taurian fans assemble!

Form of military junta that's wasted our resources and squandered our limited military potential!

>>44398486
But he wouldn't post his own avatar, right? Has he verifiably posted recently? I feel like I must have missed it if he did.

>>44398459

Good luck with that.

>>44398416
Yeah, generally the Taurians here are pretty cool. I'll even say that I occasionally judge ya'll based on my interactions with OF Taurian fans, and that's really not fair to you folks. So thank, you, BTG Taurians, for not being *completely* irrational. It could be worse; you could like an objectively worse faction, like insert anon's faction here, right?

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>>44398531
>he doesn't like insert anon's faction here
You always were an asshole, Gorman

>>44398499
anyone have more taurian themed pics? official art or painted mechs?

Now that I think on it, I can't remember any genuine hardcore taurianfags in the last few months.
Last one I remember was the last time somebody posted the "clans from the other end" shit, which was in the summer?

Less meta discussion would be good

>>44399205
Yeah, fair enough.
Post mechs from minor powers, tiny manufacturers, pirates and mercenaries

>>44391975

>thinks C3 and stealth are munchkin

Do you cry when anyone uses anything past introtech?

>>44399205
Meta is the only original thing left to talk about. Everything else has been discussed and dissected ad nauseum.

Snow Ravens:

Nightlord 1, Volga 2, Potemkin 5, Aegis 7, McKenna 1, Cameron 3, Lola 3, Texas 1, Carrack 2, Sovetskii Soyuz 2, Conqueror 2, Whirlwind 2, Congress 1, Essex 1, Vincent 1, York 1, Fredesa 1

36 Ships, 794 embarked ASF, 156 DropShips

FWL:

Vincent 1, Zechetinu 11, Essex 2, Impavido 3, Eagle 10, Aegis 2, Agamemnon 4, Black Lion 1, Thera 4

38 Ships, 1142 embarked ASF, 105 DropShips

The FWL appears to have an advantage, but the Vincent, Essex, Zechetinu, Eagle and Agamemnon are all so hilariously shit they're gonna contribute dick all to proceedings before dying, leaving the Ravens with 32 ships (also counting out the Clan Carracks, because srsly) to the FWL's 14.

"Oh, but the FWL has 50% more fighters!" Yeah, not so much. The Ravens are written as being extremely heavy on Carriers and Titans. Let's ignore the Titans and just put Carriers in the 51 extra drop collars they have over the FWL. Boom, the Ravens are ahead by 162 fighters.

Then let's consider crew skills. The Ravens are the only faction in the game with battle-tested ship crews, and literally all of their crews are graded as Clan Elite.

You'd be right in predicting a brutal, one-sided smackdown. You'd be dead wrong in predicting it's the FWL that will be doing the beating.

You can add the two Theras that won't be finished until 3068 and 3070 if you really want to, it's not gonna change shit. The Ravens have too much of a head start on the League.

>>44399263

If you don't see why allowing Stealth armour on units with Near Miss locations (in conjunction with all the other bullshit the MUH IS PROTOS! dude wants them to have) is a bad thing, I hope someone spams a force using nothing but against you to teach you the errors of your ways.

>>44399355

So you're desperate to add extra gimp rules for no reason because something messes with your headcannon.

>>44399296
nah, the FWLN would waste the snow birds

>>44399397

wat

It's purely a balance thing. Protos are already under-costed for BV and can be spammed even more without FSM to bring them into check.

Giving them +7 to-hit at long range with Near Miss location tables on top of that is pure, unmitigated bullshit.

But no, must be about headcannon or something. Right.

>>44399434

PURPLE BURD STRONK aside, why? There's going to be at least 2 points of skill difference between the crews in the Ravens' favour, most likely 3.

The Aegis and Conquerors of the Ravens can literally kill all the Eagles and Agamemnons of the FWL in a single turn of firing. Their armour is that abysmal; 39 is the best on an Eagle over 45 SI and 57 armour over 40 SI on the Agememnons can be annihilated by just the Nose arc on a Conqueror (291 damage) and a Nose + Fore-Side battery (140 damage) on the Aegis.

I seriously don't know how much you're being guided by PURPLE BURD STRONK and/or MUH ASF SWARMS, but the majority of the FWL fleet is made of gossamer over happy thoughts. The Ravens do have some shit ships, but they have only 4 that are likely to die in the first turn of firing compared to the FWL's 24.

Once the shit hits the fan, the FWLN is just proper fucked.

>>44399296
>let's make one third of the raven's dropships specialized carriers just cause
>NONE of the FWLN's drop ships are ASF carriers
Yeah, sure SRR, whatever gets you hard
Anyhow, the raven's WarShip "advantage" doesn't mean dick if this goes to nukes, which the FWL 200% would. If it goes to nukes, the white birds get BTFO and the FWLN's two or three fastest ships survive, along with a handful of ASFs and nothing else.
Conventional, though, white bird beats purple bird 90% of the time, sure

>>44399524

If you can't beat a force that gets cored eaily, blown apart by anything powerful and isn't packing anything bigger than a standard medium laser, you're a really shitty player. Do you forbid your opponents from using anything with jump jets too, because its unfair to your "hyper entropic warfare" forces?

What do you think pulse lasers, LRMs, lb-x and SRMs are for? That would be easy to beat if you're remotely competent.

>>44376302
On the one hand "Aw, she got you Battletech Stuff" on the other she got you Star Lord. She gets points for trying i guess.

>>44376803
3025 was pretty much MexiTech.

>>44399786

>NONE of the FWLN's drop ships are ASF carriers

They can bring as many as they like. If you include the two unready Theras, the FWL has 1542 ASFs, which the Ravens can match by adding 25 Titans to their force with 131 drop collars left over compared to the 105 the Leage has. Shit, if the Ravens want to go balls to the wall and bring Vengeances (which they have) they can match the FWLN with 137 collars left over. I was being *nice* by making them use the Carrier.

The Ravens have a massive advantage in firepower, armour, skill, DropShips, and if they feel like it, ASF numbers too.

>but muh nukes

And this is how I know you have literally no experience with AeroTech. Landing a Nuke hit on the tabletop basically requires a god damn act of God to accomplish due to how they're fired and how Point Defence works.

But sure, let's ignore that little problem and say it goes to nukes. The FWLN has 102 tubes capable of launching nukes. Most of those are on the Zechs that are going to die in the first turn of firing. The Snow Ravens have 210 tubes, most of those on their bricks, Aegis and above.

>buh buh but MUH PURPLE BURD STRONK

Snow Ravens stronker. Deal with it.

>>44399296
>>44399696
>>44399786
>>44400047
The real question is if either navy could beat medron pryde's idea of a "realistic" taurian navy

>>44400295

His "realistic" Taurian navy would have at least 50 2.5 megaton deathblobs. As bullshit as the Leviathan III is, particularly in terms of the other ships in the canon setting, it still doesn't max out what you can really do with WarShips.

The only hope for salvation other fleets might have against such horrors is that Medron is completely shit actually optimising designs, despite his claims to the contrary. So his 2.5 MT would-be deathblobs might be beatable, if only by Lev III-type ships.

>>44400373
Out of morbid curiosity, I kind of want to go on the OF and get a definitive answer as to what his idea of a "reasonable" taurian navy is

>>44400373
>it still doesn't max out what you can really do with WarShips.
I have this horrible need to know what a TRULY optimized maximum deathblob warship would look like

>>44402568
Considering what ASFs are ton-for-ton the most powerful thing you can field, it's probably an incredibly thick-skinned carrier.

>>44400047
>crunching all those figures to win a factional E-peen fight
The true victor between you two is your virginity

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thoughts on this nightstar?

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>>44401073
>>44402663

Behold, the Reasonable-Class. It's a touch underpowered though.

>>44402783

Samefagging this hard now that you've been conclusively shown to be wrong.

>>44403505

Ehhh... one of the defining traits of the Nightstar is having the same class (in for the same type) of ballistic weapons. It actually looks like more of a Banshee.

>>44403975
>All that armor
>7000 DHS, it can fire everything all the time.
But why it has no anti-fighter weaponry?
>Cargo Bay 3: 214 Aerospace Fighters. 25 Doors
Oh...

Ballpark estimate, what is the BV on that thing anyway? Are there even any IS fleets that could match its lone BV?
On the other hand you could lead it on a wild goose chase in-system until its crew runs out of food.

>>44404538

>But why it has no anti-fighter weaponry?

A: 214 Fighters of its own
B: Killer Whales with Peacemakers
C: That's what the NL bays are for. Put them in Anti-Aircraft mode and Lethal Threshold virtually anything.

No idea on the BV front, I designed it by hand (which is why I forgot certain stats like the crew count). With combat capabilities comparable to the Leviathan III, it'd be in the same ballpark. Besides, BV is fundamentally broken at the DropShip level, let alone for WarShips. It doesn't even provide a rough guide for combat ability, the Farragut and Black Lion are costed in around the same bracket, but the Black Lion will wreck the Farragut's shit the majority of the time. The Black Lion is in turn costed higher than the McKenna, but the McKenna is nowhere near as bad as that comparison suggests.

>On the other hand you could lead it on a wild goose chase in-system until its crew runs out of food.

Not gonna happen, Every ASF pilot, Marine, Small Craft crewman and normal Crew member has their own, dedicated quarters. 15KT of supplies (plus as many Mules as you want to strap onto it) will keep it going for over two years. Plus it can just call in another Reasonable-Class with its supporting McKenna and Texas-Class ships with its HPG. Or it could refuse to play that game and move in-system and interdict the planet, at least when on the offensive.

>>44404783

Also, should be 216 fighters, not 214. 4*54=216. I paid the correct tonnage for the ASF bays and crew quartering, just didn't spot the transcription error before.

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>>44403975
>crying samefag
lol

Yet another reason the Clans should never have existed

Reading HBMPS, how did the Canopians get so competent out of nowhere?

They start out in the game as a fairly modest realm that has a small military and doesn't fight much, being devoted more to pleasure, and then suddenly they're depicted as having the largest Periphery military, the best Periphery military academy and training, professional soldiers despite rank-purchasing being established from day 1, and suddenly industrially capable whereas they never had been.

Did some of Sun-Tzu's perfectness just rub off on to them?

I ask this sort of to contrast their HB with House Kuritas. Whereas so much of the original Periphery information is retconned to make the Magistracy so different and stronger, it's been pointed out that a lot of the info in the original Kurita sourcebook was pretty much carried over to HBHK.
I just wonder what the writers were thinking, keeping Kurita's early cartoonishly evil lore while retconning the Magistracy to make us somehow think a nation steeped in discrimination and with a military you buy rank in is somehow efficient and competent.

/rant

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>>44405530
>"Anyone who can prove herself a victim of
oppression is granted full citizenship"
- Canopian law

it's literally tumblr: the faction

>>44405530
It all happened literally just to help Sun-Tzu and the CapCon. Nothing else really needs be said. Fasanomics, etc. Where would Sun-Tzu get the expendable money or tech to really be of use in 3057 despite his nation being a basket-case? Doesn't matter, the story required it.

>>44405569
>tumblr
You mean Germany?

>>44405744
Is that a /pol/ joke? I earned my German citizenship by dint of being born there so I've never bothered to look into the law otherwise.

>>44405761
Sort of, superglue lady's agenda has been in that direction lately.

>>44405777
Oh yes, that mess.

>>44405530
>Did some of Sun-Tzu's perfectness just rub off on to them?
yes, through his dick.

>>44405530
it's kind of a long-standing tradition for them; in essence, whatever the TC SHOULD be capable of but doesn't do, happens to them.
see: managing to build SIX FULL REGIMENTS in eight years of predominantly medium and mechs on a industrial base of fifty bugs and ten shads a year, while the taurians with their big 'ol pile of star league heavy factories manage two. of mostly light mechs.
This is even worse compared to the IS; in that time period, the FWL, at the very top of it's game is building two new regiments a year. as the industrial powerhouse of the IS. the magistracy manages a THIRD of this with ONE specifically said to be shit-tier factory.

build a highly competent and skilled military?
the TDF gets hyped as such but jobs the second that anything happens while a system that makes social generals look sane inexplicably produces nothing but elite troops and master commanders

shit, here's anohter minor but hilarious example: the MAF ground forces are said to be mostly comprised of older rommel tanks. the same tanks that the taurians "never built" and people will froth at the mouth if you even suggest such a thing, but the canopians are knee-deep in them just because, right?

also, as of HBMPS, the magistracy now has slaves (no, really, check the back of the book), for whatever ungody reason, and nobody seems to care about that

but yeah, this is basically because they're really the "canopian commonality" of the CapCon and therefor fueled by coleman's fast rap embezzlement magic

>>44405530

The same way everyone does, fiat.

Look, for better or worse, production numbers and prior fluff (1e Periphery handbook) mean jack and shit. If the story the authors want to tell require the Marians to field a division, then there will be magic warehouses or something so they have a division. I'd like it if this wasn't the case, but neither FASA, FanPro, nor CGL has ever let the canon production numbers get in the way of their story.

That's true for EVERY faction.

>>44406727
> I'd like it if this wasn't the case, but neither FASA, FanPro, nor CGL has ever let the canon production numbers get in the way of their story.

That's probably a good thing when you think about it. Being unable to tell interesting stories because a book you published a decade ago didn't indicate that you have enough factories to do so would be quite restricting (not to mention boring).
But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?

>>44406727

But the numbers are canon. They can't just ignore them, otherwise what's the goddamn point in having them? They can't DO that!

>>44399938
Hey now anon, Star Lord is great silly read. Don't knock it mate.

>>44406785
>But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?
Periphery 1e had the taurians building Pattons and Hatchetmen, the hatchetman thing got retconned quickly in TRO:3050, but the patton wasn't retconned for a good while longer, and in the mean time, a few products were released which included stuff based on the assumption that the taurians were producing rommels, including Periphery 2e, which I think is what anon is speaking of

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>>44405569
I imagine the sticking point there is proving to them that you've been oppressed, considering how subjective that can be in general (and how skewed their viewpoint could be) The law is more or less 'citizenship for whoever they feel like giving it to'.

All we really know for sure is that they take in runaway Clanners seemingly without question (especially scientists), while telling Marians to get bent even if they were actual runaway slaves.

>>44405530
I'm a MoC fan and I've had that same rant. Even though they changed from a sideline observer of the setting to a wrecking ball of pure winning, doing so made them less fun, and I dislike that.

>>44407064
I WANT to like the MoC, I really do. I just can't get over the hardcore institutional sexism (like, the female nobility is legally permitted to rape literally anybody they want) that everybody is seemingly completely OK with despite (rightly) lambasting the dracs for the same thing. This, plus the capcon shit, I just can't do it, man

>>44407064

So like most countries they take in the skilled valuable labor and kick out the poor useless mouths to feed. That seems about accurate.

>>44407342

So ultimately what are the rules for when a faction is allowed to win, vs when a faction ought to lose?

Looking at the Atlas, are there any decent variants for it as time timeline advances?

>>44408185
the AS7-S3 is a solid machine.

>>44407342
I don't mean to sound sexist but I don't see how men wouldn't take over a system like that. Men are typically larger, stronger, inclined to violence and so forth. I'm sure someone will cite a backwards-ass native tribe of 30 people as why matriarchy can work but it really doesn't make sense in a modern society.

>>44406310
>also, as of HBMPS, the magistracy now has slaves (no, really, check the back of the book), for whatever ungody reason, and nobody seems to care about that
Meanwhile the Canopians fellate themselves about being a "true democracy"

>>44408185

Atlas II, Atlas III, AS7-S, AS7-S2, AS8-D.

The -K series is a bit unfortunate.

>>44407503

If you like a faction then it should win. If you don't, then it should lose. Always and forever.

Realistically though what gets people pissy is if a faction wins out of nowhere (see: Xin Sheng, where the Hopeless Battle Syndrome CCAF magically becomes the best-trained and motivated force overnight) or does nothing but win in 99.9999999% of cases (ie, the Ghost Bears).

>>44406785

>But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?

As I said a few threads back, the first printing of TR 3025 randomly gave the Taurians the ability to build the new Hatchetman (literally designed by a fucking polymath genius and only produced because the two most powerful Houses were pouring their resources into it) and the Rommel/Patton (big news because it was a new fusion-powered tank in an era where everyone else was ripping fusion engines out of vehicles to power their 'Mechs and ASF).

Neither made any sense for the Concordat to be building- they're the sworn enemies of a faction that was getting the Rommel, Patton, and Hatchetman through legitimate means- but because Taurian fans are convinced that their nation has a heavier infrastructure than the Lyrans (because the Inner Sphere In Flames rules say so) and they're like super literate and shit they should be able to do better than the Lyrans and Suns.

>>44406310

The Taurian Concordat was written as wasting what resources it had on building outdated fortifications under Thomas Calderon.

The Mariks didn't build as much as they could have because so much of their production was going to the Suns, Dracs, and Lyrans after Outreach.

I get being worked up about how Xin Sheng has rubbed off on the Canopians, but really what happened to the Concordat after they tried to rumble with the Suns in the Civil War is what you'd expect to happen to a Periphery nation trying it on with a Great House.

>>44408620
>but really what happened to the Concordat after
He's pretty clearly talking about before.

>>44408620
>Neither made any sense for the Concordat to be building- they're the sworn enemies of a faction
I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense. Their "sworn enemies" status is pretty one-sided, and the Lyrans like to sell things to make money, up to and including production rights.
Now technically speaking, and with the dates involved, I agree 3025 would be far too early.

Never played Inner Sphere In Flames. What's the story with that and infrastructure?

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Knowing /btg/ this has probably been done to death, but I prefer to ask realists here instead of the Medron pack on the OF.

Say you're Jeff Calderon and you don't die in the Detroit Conference.

How would you rule the Concordat and what would your policies be towards your neighbors and with domestic security and military-industrial development?

Narn cruiser for NEA.

>>44408657

When it was wasting its resources preparing for a FedSuns invasion that was never going to happen?

>>44408699

>I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense.

But not to a sworn enemy of what was then their own nation. The FedCom selling some of its newest and best equipment to its enemies doesn't make much sense at all. Once Katherine is in charge and just to spite her brother? Yeah, sure, and that's exactly what did happen.

>Never played Inner Sphere In Flames. What's the story with that and infrastructure?

The rules only cared about (then-known) factory worlds, based on what Objective Raids said, not how good a given factory world was or what it produced. Thus, Hesperus II is worth just as much as any other factory world and planets that have just Vehicle factories are worth as much as those that have 'Mech factories.

It also doesn't put a limit on what unit types you can use your factories to build, so not only can the Taurians out-produce the Lyrans, they can shit out WarShips faster than anyone else too.

This has literally been used to argue that the Concordat is the most heavily industrialised and most industrially powerful of all the BT factions, and that it should have the largest and best military to go along with the largest and best WarShip fleet.

>>44408740

Jeffrey Calderon was in favour of the Trinity Alliance. However he probably would have demanded more in return for joining it than Shraplen did.

He hires the Uruk-hai instead of using them as causus belli with the Suns.

The Jihad plotline or something like it is probably inevitable though. The Taurian state as a whole, not to mention its military, leans much more towards the Shraplen/Tharn end of the spectrum than the Jeffrey Calderon/Cham Kithrong end. So either there's a coup or the WoB whacks Jeffrey and you get to about the same end point.

>>44408799
>But not to a sworn enemy of what was then their own nation.
The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39. They were close allies but that doesn't really stop businessmen from making sales. Does the Lyran government have to underwrite every sale to begin with?
And one more, the "sworn enemy" thing was pretty one sided. The Davions didn't give the Taurians a bare thought.

>>44408847
>The Taurian state as a whole, not to mention its military
Is that really even true or is it just fan perception? The news articles in HBMPS suggest Taurian people and even military members were more pragmatic and stubborn towards government, opposing Thomas Calderon's activities after it became obvious there was no threat from Davion and forcing Shraplen to basically have to entice them into believing there was a war before it started.

Stands to reason they as practical as other humans and just got dragged into the mess by their leaders, same as other states.

>>44408858

>The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39.

I don't even know where to begin with this. There's a difference between the official merger date and when the FedCom starts acting like one nation, which happens as soon as Hanse accepts Katherine's proposal.

>>44408915

>Is that really even true

Yes. Being a Taurian means you have to take a paranoia of the Suns as a character trait straight off the bat.

In those articles the Taurians are unhappy with the Government not because of what it's doing (which they initially supported) but because it hasn't worked out in their favour.

The most telling part is when Cham Kithrong creates the Protectorate most of the Concordat responds with a resounding "lolnope."

>>44409094

>Katherine's

Katrina, derp. Neeed more coffee.

>>44408915
>Is that really even true
No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.

>>44409094
>I don't even know where to begin with this.
Answering the questions involved would be a start, as well as not pretending that their alliance meant they acted as one nation before Katrina's retirement.

>>44409094
>In those articles the Taurians are unhappy with the Government not because of what it's doing (which they initially supported) but because it hasn't worked out in their favour.
That claim doesn't even make sense. Regardless of whether they were persuaded to support it at first, they are written as being unhappy with what the government is doing and debating it fiercely. "Worked out in their favour" sounds like bullshit.

>The most telling part is when Cham Kithrong creates the Protectorate most of the Concordat responds with a resounding "lolnope."
Not all disobedience or dissent is secession, anon. I hope you're able to realize this.

>>44409164

>No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.

>he hasn't seen all the times people have insisted that the Slow Learner trait of Clan characters is intended to represent them not learning from the IS applying non-Clan tactics to battle and making the same mistakes over and over

That aside, you're placing the cart before the horse on that one. Taurian characters get the Paranoia quirk because the nation has been written as being unreasonably and unjustifiably fearful of the Suns as a defining character trait from Periphery 1e onwards. They've always been like that in the fluff, that just gives them some crunch to reflect it.

>>44409225
And yet the fluff also presents Taurian characters without that quirk, and new articles showing Taurians dissenting over a Davion focus.

Hence why it's false and really kind of stupid to cite an RPG trait done for a player's character to have flavor as existing 100% across a population of billions. Yeesh.
Next you'll tell me the Taurians should have a warship fleet since Periphery 1e references shipyards and industrial nonsense.

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>>44409177

>Answering the questions involved would be a start, as well as not pretending that their alliance meant they acted as one nation before Katrina's retirement.

OK. The answer would be "no, you're wrong." And just one demonstration of that would be the way the Lyrans bailed out the Suns economically after the 4th SW, precisely because they did view themselves as one nation and acted accordingly.

>>44409215

>That claim doesn't even make sense.

>Start to type response
>Realise so much of this sounds familiar
>On hunch check the official forums, pic related

Yeah, no. Go jerk off about how awesome the Concordat is if you want, it's pretty evident that what the books have to say about it is going to have no impact on what you want to believe or claim.

>>44391319
>with a quadruple amputee MD pilot stuck in them and directly wired to all the controls

who shits in their mech?

>>44409317
>singular answer to questions without claims
>"the lyrans helped their allies economically so they were one nation even though they weren't so you're wrong"
Ok, try answering without your headcanon or just don't bother.

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>>44409317
Now THAT'S fucking pathetic.

>get refuted
>cry "Medron!" when it has no relevance
I think I'll jerk off with your tears for lube as I chuckle at your lack of reading comprehension. If you choose to act like a childish sperg because I cite fluff and you can only fall back on an RPG character trait, power to you.

If irrationally crying Medron after citing the Periphery 1e like him was your desired endgame, well done, you baited me well.

>>44407342
noob here: MoC?

>>44409460
Magistracy of Canopus. The sex fetish faction.

>>44409317
>Go jerk off about how awesome the Concordat is
Is this a serious response? Nothing in his posts made the Concordat out to be awesome.

>pointing out not all Taurians are paranoid towards House Davion since the fluff presents examples is now considered being Medron Pryde
We've reached critical autism levels.

>>44409402

>I demand you cite sources for well-known facts so that I can ignore those along with everything else you've said and keep calling you a liar

>>44409452

>even though I'm posting exactly like Medron Pryde I'm not Medron Pryde

You may or may not be Medron Pryde. However, you're acting exactly like he does and making the same bullshit arguments he does, so it really doesn't matter whether you are him or not. The result has been the same either way.

>>44409401

I think there's art in Necromo Nightmare where they're putting an MD operator into his ride. It makes it look like they can be removed (albeit with some faffing about to get that done) and removable cyberlimbs would give the pilots their extremities back while out of their Proto.

The impression I got was that the ones in NN were only stuck in their protos because of the effects of the zombie plague, not because there was no other option.

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>>44409536
Just stop shitposting.

>>44409536
>However, you're acting exactly like he does and making the same bullshit arguments he does

Fuck you're a desperate cunt to try and rewrite the debate since you can't refute fluff.

>>44409536
Your headcanon isn't full of well-known facts. The fact is you're wrong but keep making your nonsense arguments.

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>>44409536
>You may or may not be Medron Pryde
I can't fathom how stupid someone would have to be to say that because another anon points out not all of a faction's characters are clones and instead have differing views.
There's literally nothing in any of the posts boosting the Taurian Concordat in any way militarily, industrially, etc, but we come to someone being so buttblasted that they entertain the idea their debate opponent must be an OF boogeyman.

New /btg/ character trait: quirk/paranoid (Medron Pryde)

>>44409589

...

That's what literally happened.

Medron claims it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat Hathcetmans, Rommels, and Pattons. So has this anon.

Medron claims that despite reams and reams of fluff to contrary, that the Taurian Concordat does not have an unreasonable fear of the Federated Suns. So does this anon.

Medron demands cites for things that are well known. If you do provide them (admittedly, I didn't bother because I have Taurian fatigue) he says you're still lying and that he's right any way.

There is no functional difference between this anon's behaviour and what Medron would be doing.

Now, are there Taurian characters who aren't completely shitballs insane and ready for the inevitable Davion invasion of doom? Yes. They are in a definite minority. Trying to use them to argue that the Concordat as a whole is mostly like that is a specious argument at best.

Appeals to HB: MPS as to the unpopularity of the attack on the Suns are likewise specious, since it ignores the way Shraplen has been doing things that are unpopular with the populace for a long time. Their disapproval of the invasions of the Suns is part of a longer pattern, starting with him joining the Trinity Alliance that Jeffrey was working towards as well. Those attacks were on the back of the unpopular Trinity Alliance and the even less popular decision to send TDF units to the Capellans in order to conquer the St. Ives Compact, not a single act divorced from an overall narrative.

>>44409729
>That's what literally happened.
Don't bullshit when we can all see the conversation.

>>44409729
>That's what literally happened
Yeah nah, you're a desperate cunt.

Crying Medron only underscores it.

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Let's move past the moron looking for OF boogeymen and get the thread back on track.

>Favorite Jihad era mech or mech/variant
>Favorite WoB skullduggery during the Jihad
>Favorite part of the Necromo nightmare

Go!

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>>44409729
>Medron claims it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat Hathcetmans, Rommels, and Pattons. So has this anon.
Since the Lyrans did then they must be Medron too. EVERYONE is Medron!
You're Medron, I'm Medron, NEA is double Medron.

But really you come off as a disingenuous cunt.

>>44409765

>it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat the stuff I want them to have: >>44408699, >>44408858

>The Concordat isn't written as being afraid of the Suns >>44408915, >>44409164

>buh buh buh but none of that happened, you lying liar who lies

wat

Look, just to be clear I'm not saying the Concordat is stuffed to the gills with dribbling retards and should never have anything nice happen to it ever.

I'm saying that it's long been depicted as afraid of a Suns attack that is never going to come, that people like Cham Kithrong and Hadji Doru are far less common than the Grover Shraplens, Boris Tharns, Maxwell Albrittens and the like, and that it doesn't make sense for the Concordat to have native production of highly advanced, brand-new designs of Inner Sphere origin from a state they're an avowed enemy of, at least not initially.

None of that's headcannon, all of it is explicitly stated in a number of places.

>>44409901

>>44408699
>I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense. Their "sworn enemies" status is pretty one-sided, and the Lyrans like to sell things to make money, up to and including production rights.
>Now technically speaking, and with the dates involved, I agree 3025 would be far too early.
This makes sense, and he agrees that Medron is wrong about the date. Since it eventually happens he's right.

>>44408858
>The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39.
This is canon.

>>44408915
This is accurate. They're humans, and humans have varying views.

>>44409164
>No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.
This much is true. You would have to be a retard to apply a character trait (that the fluff does demonstrate isn't universal) to everyone.

So yeah, you're a bullshitting liar.

If you want to be taken seriously next time, don't stoop to trying to rewrite your opponent's argument or paint them as an OF character because your own argument falls flat.

>>44409901
No one buys your headcanon. Please just stop posting.

>>44409901
>Look, just to be clear I'm not saying the Concordat is stuffed to the gills with dribbling retards and should never have anything nice happen to it ever.
Horsecock.
You've been here playing the butthurt anti-taurian game for a year or more and that's EXACTLY what you're saying.
You're all "the taurians loose because they suck and I and everybody hate them. If you don't think they suck, you're medron pryde. They don't suck because fiat but even if they did they deserve it"
What die medron pryde DO to you, anon?

>>44409901
>>it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat the stuff I want them to have
That's some serious butthurt you have there to rewrite my post, you slanderous faggot.

>thread about game about giant robots
>people talking about factions of said game instead of giant robots

>>44410007
space politics are serious business

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If we're going to argue can we at least debate whether the WoB was in the wrong or not?

And whether their strike on the Clan homeworlds would have succeeded?

>>44410054
So this then?
https://youtu.be/wSevB3nDeGc

>>44410100
I never played TF2 so I dunno.

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>>44409826
>>Favorite Jihad era mech or mech/variant
Plasma rifle Faf is pretty hilarious.

>>44410134
grog here, never used plasma rifles yet. how are they?

>>44410145
They're AC/10s that weigh 6 tons, generate ten heat, don't have explosive ammo, and hilariously fuck up whatever they hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXpb2TY_P7o
What would the Ryuki BA be armed with?

>>44410169
not /m/

>>44410158
neat. reading up on it i'm kind of surprised it was the cappies that developed them. lacking the industrial base or educated population of the fedsuns, lyrans or fwl they really seemed to catch up and make a lot of stuff really quickly.

>>44410145

The Rifles are pretty good. Basically mixes Large Laser range with PPC heat and damage for the firing unit, with added heat for the target. Extra brutal on vehicles and infantry. IIRC a good choice against DropShips and above since they don't track heat in the conventional way, so take extra damage like vees and infantry.

If you're redesigning something from 3025 for the 3067+ era, a Plasma Rifle is worth looking at on anything that already has a PPC or Large Laser.

Plasma Cannons are a bit shit though. Extra heat on the target, extra range, but deal no innate damage.

I often think that the damage and heat for the Cannons and Rifles should be reversed, the Clans saying they want the weapon to hurt the enemy even if it means applying less heat while the Capellans were like "MOAR HEAT, WHO CARES ABOUT DAMAGE, WAR CRIMES FOR XIN SHENG!"

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Rate my 'mech company and characters.

>>44410271
Plasma cannons are fun against light bulbs. You'll understand why there's an external heat cap, every game could be won using plasma cannons only

>>44410506
Lightbulbs just... don't fire one of their weapons. A Hellstar shooting off three cERPPCs instead of four is still the equivalent to a 4/6 Thunder Hawk.
Nah, they're best against something rocking only the ten free sinks, preferably singles and preferably with explosive ammunition that you can light up. Plasma... well, I suppose I've only ever used rifles because fuck clantech, but plasma rifles are evil against introtech designs like the Crusader or Warhammer.

>>44410577

Pretty much this.

>>44410506

I don't so much have a problem with an external heat cap as 15 being a bit on the low side for it to really make heat-dealing weapons all that effective. Some cap is fine, you don't really want to get spammed with heat weapons and have your 'Mech shut down for the next five turns while it works off the heat, but by the same token "oh, well I just won't fire an ER PPC/ER Large Laser then" is a bit lacklustre.

20 external heat would be a bit more challenging to overcome.

I dunno. I just miss the days when being hit with an Inferno missile meant you had to be careful. And not just for that turn, but the next two as well.

>>44410577
Tbqh my experience with plasma cannons was against one of the new Black Knights, that are very undersinked

>>44410781
Yeah, against already undersunk flashbulbs, it does cut their firepower down to unacceptable levels, yeah.
But the new Black Knight kinda sucks anyways. And it killed the Black Knight's looks. And it cut off its hands. And it changed the arm the PPC was on.

>>44407342
>hardcore institutional sexism (like, the female nobility is legally permitted to rape literally anybody they want)
What shitty fanfic is this from? I mean if it's really in Periphery 1E I wouldn't be shocked, that book has some really crazy shit that is mostly considered to be gone from the setting even if not specifically retconned.

Yes, there is sexism in the MoC, there's a rank gap in military between men and women and a glass ceiling against men in Canopian-based companies (all five of them). That's about as bad as it gets though. Yeah, it's unrealistic in a few ways, but it's just a quirk rather than their one defining characteristic.

>>44411264
it's in every periphery book, actually
to quote HB:MPS "Among the many privileges of Canopian nobles are... the right
of noblewomen to choose their own mates, who cannot refuse under Canopian law"
that sounds pretty rapey to me, man
[Handbook: Major Periphery States Page 79-80]

>>44410054
The Blakist strike on the Clans would have been as setup for failure as the Clan invasion was despite /btg/ screaming muh furfag genocide about it.

Nobody trusts the WoB or each other, Steiner and Davion are incapable of offering much, Liao has no reason to participate while there would be a lot of discontent from Marik over what's seen as a Steiner problem. Kurita would be hard pressed against the Bears, Comstar would say no as would the Periphery.

On the other hand, the Crusader clans are begging for a reason to restart the invasion and the Wardens wouldn't be able to ignore the threat of a Clan genocide.

>>44409826
Nuclear Grand Titan
Fake Highlanders (literally a scottish guy on the comms)
The guy who played it with a squad of Ebon Magistrate catgirls.

>>44411533
>Fake Highlanders (literally a scottish guy on the comms)
Which SB was this in?

>>44410949
>hating the new Black Knight
Pleb alert, pleb alert!

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Why haven't you formed your own Warrior House?

>>44412452
because we don't have that chinaman weeb shit in the league, son

>>44409826
AS8-D (The Atlas that every Atlas wishes it could be)
Attacking their own false flag op with another false flag op.
GlaDOS

>>44411366
I forgot how fucked up nobility is in BT, I'd pretty much tuned them out of my entire headcannon of the setting.
The matriarchy shit was always my least favorite part of the MoC, that pretty much puts the cherry on top of that.

On that note, /btg/ what is your least favorite trait of your favorite faction. That little part of the fluff you have to ignore to enjoy.

>>44412725

>On that note, /btg/ what is your least favorite trait of your favorite faction. That little part of the fluff you have to ignore to enjoy.

What 'Mechs it's supposed to have and how many of them they're supposed to field. I'd rather be able to select a competitive force with some variety.

>>44412725
>On that note, /btg/ what is your least favorite trait of your favorite faction. That little part of the fluff you have to ignore to enjoy.
The full retard provincialism in the FWL that doesn't quite make sense after being united with a representative Parliament for 800 years, and Camlann v. Free Worlds undermining the power of provinces long ago anyway.
And that the extreme provincialism kind of became a meme that the FWL was always that way even though the modern issues arose with events in the 30th century due to war strain and came to a head during the reign of Janos Marik.

>>44412725
>I'd pretty much tuned them out of my entire headcannon of the setting.
I don't blame you, man.
>>44412725
>On that note, /btg/ what is your least favorite trait of your favorite faction. That little part of the fluff you have to ignore to enjoy.
the fact that the TC's industrial capacity apparently all vanishes into thin air between the factories and the military

>>44413002
>the fact that the TC's industrial capacity apparently all vanishes into thin air between the factories and the military
How's that? If they had industry like the MoC they'd be adding 6-7 regiments like the MAF instead of disbanding 2-3 regiments in the same amount of time.

>>44411511
homeworld clans are fucked thou,

a dozen or so divisions of MD hitting at just the right time during the WoR would have absolutely fucked them over.

have to be careful thou get the timing wrong and you unite the homeworlds against the IS.

>>44408799
>This has literally been used to argue that the Concordat is the most heavily industrialised and most industrially powerful of all the BT factions, and that it should have the largest and best military to go along with the largest and best WarShip fleet.

That's retarded. Why hasn't /that/ been ret-conned?

>>44413198
no one plays it so it's at the bottom of the list

>>44412915
extreme provincialism is basically what happened in the Holy Roman empire. Remember that the existence of the noble class means that there is always a strong anti-federal feeling in the state and by its nature representative democracy actually increases this tendency.

>>44412725
>Attacking their own false flag op with another false flag op.
What was this?

>>44412452
Because I don't use orbital bombardment on my capital to establish a casus belli against my neighbors, then change the story when I attack another neighbor.

>>44413100

It's bait, anon. Don't bite.

>>44413198

It has, sort of. Inner Sphere in Flames is being replaced with a new system.

But the ISIF rules basically made a TC/Lyran showdown the most likely endgame state, with the Taurians having a slight edge.

>>44412725
The sudden disappearance (solely for plot reasons) of the governmental support structures, loyal opposition, good advisers, and General Staff from both sides of the FC when it came time to reset the map.

Also, Social Generals. I understand that they were needed to balance out the Lyran industry, but man... you'd think that centuries of war would have left *some* form of intelligence at the top.

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>>44412709
Japanaman, actually (pic related)

>>44412452
I don't have the sideburns for it

>>44413477
>Inner Sphere in Flames is being replaced with a new system
Anyone read both, can tell me what the main differences are?

>>44413962
The smart ones all went into business as arms merchants.

>>44414400
On that note, is the new Inner Sphere in Flames being taken out of IntOps?

>>44414432
It was in the beta.

However, the beta version was also incomplete, and poorly-balanced. For example, any money saved in a turn (month) earned 5% interest, whereas money invested into creating or improving a factory or world paid out a fixed value that recouped the investment every 24 months.

So, in the 96 months that it takes a factory to double its money, if you deposited your ten talents with the bankers, you would earn over 9 times as much (and due to the miracle of compound interest, it would only get worse over the years).

Did I mention that there was no relationship between factories and unit production? You just spent money, and poof, you got RCT (and *every* faction got nearly-identical RCTs, including those that denigrated combined arms).

>>44413272
Yes, and the FWL being a millennium removed with several written in safeguards and precedents against such a thing is why it's something I don't like. But hey, Wizkids gotta wiz. At least CGL put it back together.

>>44413100
>>44413477
I'm not trying to throw out a "hurr 100 regiment TDF" bait, I just find it a bit annoying that the TC mostly builds light and heavy mechs, but the TDF is described as being heavy on mediums. I personally just use kurita weight distribution for the taurians, but at least some attempt to link what they produce to their military makeup would have been nice is all

>>44415041
The writers forget half the shit they write about the TC, news at 11.

>>44415041

I think you might be mistaking the "averages medium-weight" thing for what units they're deploying.

Like the Lyrans and Dracs, the Taurians could easily arrive at the medium weight average by having a higher than average number of lights and heavies with fewer mediums than other nations, rather than having mostly mediums like the FedSuns.

Also, TDF in 3050 (p 77, 20 Year Update): 14 regiments. MAF in 3050 (ibid, p.78): 12.33 regiments. TDF in 3064 (p. 143, FM: P) 17.66 regiments. MAF (ibid) : 16 regiments.

Magistracy grew by 3.66 regiments. Taurians grew by 3.66 as well.

This doesn't strike me as pandering as heavily as was stated before. YMMV.

>>44415357

eh. it specifically talks about "lances of light-to-medium mechs" in some of the earlier books. the later ones are more general, admittedly.
just a minor note saying "the TDF uses mostly light and heavy mechs, with fewer mediums than average" would have been nice, though

as for the regiments thing, the annoyance is, as I said, the MAF managing to GAIN so many regiments during the 3050-3061 period, even if they later lost some of them backing up the CCAF and had some of their mercs quit

not counting the mercenary regiments (of which they picked up three to the TDF's one), they still added literally three times as many regiments over the 3050-61 stretch as the TDF on possibly a sixth the industrial capacity or less

>>44415357
What, Lyrans don't avoid mediums. Where did you get that idea?

>>44415473

A period where the Magistracy was essentially whoring itself to the Capellans and not wasting a ton of money building fortifications and trying to get a Vincent working?

Doesn't really strain my suspension of disbelief, sorry.

>>44415490

They don't avoid them, just that their distribution of forces is somewhat skewed.

>>44415357
>>44415473
MAF 3050 - 9 rgts
Raventhir's Iron Hand
1st Canopian Cuirassiers
2nd Canopian Cuirassiers
1st Canopian Light Horse
2nd Canopian Light Horse
1st Canopian Fusiliers
2nd Canopian Fusiliers
3rd Canopian Fusiliers
(1st) Canopian Highlanders

3064 added:
3rd Canopian Light Horse (erroneously in 20YU, but Brush Wars and FM:P note it didn't exist then)
Magistracy Cavaliers
2nd Canopian Highlanders
1st Raventhir Cuirassiers
2nd Raventhir Cuirassiers
1st Canopian Brigade
TDF 3050 - 11 rgts
Taurian Guard
Taurian Velites
Concordat Commandos
Concordat Jaegers
Red Chasseurs
Concordat Cuirassiers
Hyades Light Infantry
Pleiades Hussars
1st Taurian Lancers
Pleiades Lancers
2nd Taurian Lancers
3064 lost:
Taurian Velites
Concordat Cuirassiers

added:
3rd Taurian Lancers
New Colony Lancers (1st Pride), formed circa 3056
Protector's Pride (2nd Pride), formed circa 3058

So MAF starts with 9 and has 15 fourteen years later.
TDF starts with 11 and has 12 fourteen years later.

How many mech factories does each have?

Makes sense.

>>44415678
this was before the deal with the capcon, actually. 90% of those gains were 50-58, when the CapCon was actively denouncing the MoC and TC rather than working with them

>>44415608
>A period where the Magistracy was essentially whoring itself to the Canopians
makes sense

>>44415608
>A period where the Magistracy was essentially whoring itself to the Canopians and not wasting a ton of money building fortifications and trying to get a Vincent working?
>Doesn't really strain my suspension of disbelief, sorry.
Strains my belief that they'd cut back on military production in an era when they're focusing on military production for an invasion they think is imminent :^)

you know what's one of the most hilariously ironic things about the whole taurian mess?
the way that hansen's roughriders beat the piss out of the entire TC during the jihad is EXACTLY the same way that medron pryde and master arminas said that the TDF would BTFO the suns.
it's friggin great

>>44415998
writers had to put them in their place

like with the nukes

>>44415998

That doesn't mean that if the TC really wanted to nuke-fuck the Davions they couldn't. It just means that the writers wanted to make us feel bad about our faction. It's fiat, nothing more, nothing less.

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>>44416525

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>>44416525
>TDF hasn't undertaken any military operations except for raiding and pirate fighting since the fucking Reunification War
>Invade the Federated Suns
>Get BTFO

Makes sense to me m80.

>>44415764

They were pouring that effort into knock-off Castles Brian. One of the reasons Hadji Doru and company removed Thomas Calderon from power is how badly he'd fucked up the TDF under his leadership.

>>44415703

Pretty sure Brush Wars only lists the units that were involved in the conflict and not the entirety of the militaries for the factions at war.

>>44415998

Eh, as funny as watching them melt down over the 3067+ plotline was, the Roughriders get a lot of unwarranted credit because of the news entries in the JHS series. The AFFS was also kicking the shit out of the Concordat, it's just that the Roughriders were hogging the media spotlight.

I really never got the way the Taurian fans were going on about how their military would stomp the Suns.

Like, four smashed up units from the Capellan March had more advanced tech than the TDF had in total, and the Capellan March by itself had enough units to hold the border and wreck the TDF by itself, without even considering what would happen if troops from other Marches were drafted.

It really reminded me of small dog syndrome, where a Chihuahua gets all yappy at a proper dog like an Alsatian. What saves the Chihuahua is not how badass it is, but because there's a fence between them and/or because the Alsatian doesn't give enough fucks about it to go over and kill it.

Except that this time the Alsatian did give enough fucks and there wasn't a fence between them.

>>44416677
>Pretty sure Brush Wars only lists the units that were involved in the conflict and not the entirety of the militaries for the factions at war.
For the Andurien wars it lists the whole of the FWLM, CCAF and MAF, and FM:P confirms the unit dates.
Easy mistake to make though, since it doesn't do the same for all the wars.

>>44416677
>They were pouring that effort into knock-off Castles Brian.
Did their mech factories cease production? Obviously no since they added at least two regiments precisely during that era.

So what happened afterward with the factory lines expanding, access to Detroit opening up and wasteful projects being canceled? Hence strained belief.

>>44415678
Yeah, skewed up.
There is no glut of lights to balance out the Lyran assaultboner.

>>44416881

Easy explanation: they were selling their 'Mechs to gain revenue to be plowed into the New Vandenburg and their wanna-be Castles Brian.

You really don't want to go down the rabbit hole of factories and production numbers. If you do that you quickly come to the dawning realisation that with published numbers every state should be expanding their forces, not just the Taurians, and the eventual end of that line of reasoning is that the TDF on a proportional basis is still going to be small compared to other factions.

>>44417003
>>44417003
>Easy explanation: they were selling their 'Mechs to gain revenue to be plowed into the New Vandenburg and their wanna-be Castles Brian.
Obviously no since they added at least two regiments precisely during that era.

>You really don't want to go down the rabbit hole of factories and production numbers.
Hence the straining of belief.
They should have been able to at least rebuild the Velites and Cuirassiers.

>>44417058
>They should have been able to at least rebuild the Velites and Cuirassiers.

Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, they didn't. You're going to have to reconcile yourself to that. Sucks to be you, Taurianfag.

>>44417290
>have nothing to say since the facts no longer support your explanation
>"S-sucks to be you, T-taurianfag"
That's nice, dear. Have a little grace next time.

>Flanked by their guides, Victor and Kai took ten steps forward, then knelt in the center of the reception area. Both of them ended up with their knees crushing the head of a yellow bird. Victor sat back on his heels and rested his hands, palm upward, on his thighs. He resisted the temptation to wipe his hands off and followed Kai's example of concentrating on his breathing.

>Theodore Kurita first approached Kai. Hohiro trailed in his father's wake, then knelt at his father's feet. In his hands he held up two swords. The longer one was a katana in a black lacquered scabbard, with a gold crossguard and pommel-cap. The hilt had been wrapped with black cords I that dangled from a loop on the pommel-cap. The wakazashi ran to a length of close to fifty centimeters, making it about two-thirds as long as the katana.

>Theodore took the katana from his son and presented it to Kai. Without saying a word, and keeping his eyes focused on the floor, Kai slid the sword home through the obi-sash over his left hip. The wakazashi followed, then Kai bowed deeply to Theodore. The Coordinator, still standing, returned the bow respectfully, then moved one step to his left as Kai straightened up.

>Omi shuffled forward to her father's side, her orange and brown kimono rustling like autumn leaves in a breeze. She knelt and lifted another two-sword set to her father. Lacquered green scabbards encased these blades. The hilts had been wrapped with green cord, and the crossguard and pommel-cap were both fashioned from fire-blackened steel. They appeared to be the same size as the weapons given to Kai, though Victor thought his katana might be a centimeter or two longer than the one Kai had received.

>>44417380
>Victor accepted the katana from Theodore's hands and felt time melting away. The weapon, by its weight, the smooth texture of the scabbard, and even the hypnotic swaying of the twin tassels at the end of the hilt took Victor back to a more primitive time. Duels fought with a weapon like the one in his hands did not have the distance and detachment of an engagement in the thirty-first century. We may style ourselves as knights in shining armor or samurai warriors fighting for our lords, but our forebears knew a conflict that was more savage and primal. The fact that BattleMechs are often humanoid makes us believe in the illusion of combat being equivalent to the warfare known by the ancients on Terra, but it is not. With this blade I'd engage an enemy whose eyes looked into mine, whose breath fell upon my face, and whose blood would drench me.

>Victor had heard much from Hohiro about the warrior and his weapon becoming one, and even Tancred Sandoval had spoken about a sword becoming an extension of the fighter's arm, but for the first time he had an inkling of what that union really meant. A warrior and his weapon cannot succeed if they are separate. The weapon becomes the instrument of the warrior's will, and the warrior becomes the engine that allows the weapon to fulfill the purpose for which it was created. With these weapons I can see that union taking place, I can understand it and respect it. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

>>44417409
>By the same token, Victor sensed danger in extending that philosophical point to warriors and 'Mechs. Because we are detached from what we are doing, because we are removed from those we kill, the union does not make us better. To become united with his machine, the warrior must surrender some of his humanity. He pays with a piece of his soul for being able to visit so much destruction on his enemies. It seemed clear to him that such a loss had been part of what had warped the Clans. We have to be careful not to let ourselves be caught in that trap even as we defeat the Clans because, from that trap, there is no redemption.

>Victor slid the katana home through his obi and paired it with the wakazashi. He bowed deeply, pressing his nose to the carpet, then straightened up. His gaze flicked toward Omi, but she kept her eyes downcast. Without looking at him, she rose and shuffled back to her position beside her mother.

>The Coordinator turned from them and walked over to where a rug with a snarling, coiled dragon had been laid out. He pressed his hands together for a moment, then looked up and out toward a gap between two of the cloth banners defining the reception area. Until the moment he did that, Victor had not noticed the lack of holovid cameras.

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>>44417329

Not the anon you're arguing with. I'm just sick of you fucks going in circles about numbers and values and all that shit that's never, ever, going to work. The TC didn't make more regiments because the story didn't call for it. The MOC made more shit than the TC because the story called for it. Nephanim and NEA are right, the numbers don't mean a fucking thing, and you're insistence on trying to make them work is evidence of fucking retardedness. They're never going to make sense, and if you want them to then start your own shitty AU to go with all the other shitty AUs about Battletech started by a butthurt factionfag who didn't like the way the bad old writers treated their poor faction.

Otherwise, No. 1. Curr.

>>44417436
>i don't care so much here's a rant
Different anon but wow.

>>44417429
>All of this has been recorded and broadcast, but the cameras are hidden so as not to not spoil the ceremony. Victor cringed inwardly, imagining the vulgar display his nation's media would have made out of the ceremony. While he fully supported the idea of a free and unencumbered media, he did admit to himself that there were times when a little control would go a long way.

>Theodore opened his hands toward the gap like a father welcoming home a brood of children. "Komban-wa, citizens of the Draconis Combine. You have my sincere apologies for being compelled to watch this ceremony unfold, but this was important enough that I wished all of you to share in it. Today a Davion has come to Luthien, without arms and barefoot, crushing beneath his feet our enemies. As you have just seen, he has been given a daisho. Those twin swords define him as a warrior of the greatest repute and skill; and he shall be treated as such by all of us, for the duration of his service here, for the duration of his life, and the duration of his memory."

>Theodore paused for a moment, which allowed Kai to finish his whispered translation. "Is that really what he said?"

>Kai nodded almost imperceptibly. "Some honorifics do not translate directly—if anything he was more appreciative than I made it sound."

>The Coordinator resumed speaking. "He has brought with him a companion of great skill and greater courage. Kai Allard-Liao is the son of warriors and the progeny of noble houses. He destroyed the Jade Falcons at Twycross, saved Victor Davion's life at Alyina, and then proceeded to harass Jade Falcons to the point where they allied themselves with him and vanquished a dishonorable foe they had both come to hate. After that, to honor the memory of his father, Kai traveled to Solaris, and again an Allard was champion of the game world. This warrior has earned his daisho, and shall be revered among us until time itself is no more.

>>44417510
>"These two men are a vanguard of forces that are coming here to the Combine. You will see more of them welcomed here in the coming days. You will see their units on your worlds, training with our troops, working on exercises together. And you will see them all gathered beneath the banner of the Star League. We are united with them in spirit and purpose."

>The Coordinator bowed his head toward the holocams for a moment, then looked up. "Seven years ago the Smoke Jaguars came to Luthien and tried to crush the Dragon's heart. They failed because the fathers of the two men kneeling behind me had the courage to send their own troops here to help us. The warriors who fought on their behalf will be here again, as will many more. Their purpose, our purpose, is to attend to the next part of the cycle of life. Seven years ago the Smoke Jaguars came to Luthien and now, almost seven years to the day later, we are going to take the war back to the Clans.

>"Among you there may be those who see this acceptance of help as dishonor, but I tell you it is not. A warrior who does not accept help when it is freely offered and he is in need is a fool. In wars, fools die and their nations die with them. The Draconis Combine is not a nation of fools. We are a nation of warriors, and a nation of victors. It is time we remind ourselves of those facts and teach them to our enemies."

>>44417436
lol graceless cunt

>>44417483

It's the end of the thread anyway. Granted, it wouldn't be the end of the thread if all these people didn't keep trying to make FASAnomics function, so I can see RantAnon's point.

>>44417436
Pal, you're the only reason that this argument exists. All you had to do was let the taurian fans talk about things they enjoy without bursting in with "NO, YOUR FACTION SUCKS, YOU SUCH, YOUR FACTION CANT HAVE NICE THINGS AND DOESN'T DESERVE THEM, AND NEITHER DO YOU". but no, you just can't do that, can you anon?

>>44417590
Morons like him arguing the points and when they lose go "well actually no one cares, blah blah blah" don't have real points. RantAnon is dumb as dirt.

>>44417593
>ll you had to do was let the taurian fans talk about things they enjoy

The things they enjoy are objectively bad and make the game worse by virtue of existing. So your production numbers don't add up? So fucking what? Nobody else;s does either. Remember when NEA ran the numbers of how many Mechs there were against how many variants there are? There's like an average of 12 of each Mech variant in the whole goddamn IS and Periphery combined. It doesn't make sense. None of it. It never will. Stop taking up thread real estate with your pointless whinging. The only reason anyone's shitting on the Taurianfags for doing it is because you're the ones who won't just goddamn DEAL with it. Let it fucking go and get over it.

>>44417585
>>44417590
>>44417593

>itt: taurian fans REEEEEEE because not everyone thinks their faction should be the best in the game at everything

>in b4 but if you read Periphery 1e on the fifth Wednesday of a month between 11:55pm and 11:59 pm while chanting "Amaris did LITERALLY nothing wrong" over and over again braille appears that totally supports whatever argument they're trying to make now

Jesus Christ. And you wonder why people get tired of you.

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>>44417593
The crowning turd in the water is that he argued it straight until he was in a corner without facts on his side, so then he feebly calls his opponent a factionfag.

This shit is pathetic.

Then there's this autistic rant: >>44417659

>>44417672
>taurian fans REEEEEEE
ITT it's actually been their opponents. Everyone else has been arguing it straight.

This got fun** to read all of a sudden.

>>44417593
>NO, YOUR FACTION SUCKS, YOU SUC[k]

In fairness, people do that to pretty much every faction. Something, something, "kill them all to the last tranny", right?

Anyway, I sympathize with the point RantAnon is making about the numbers not adding up. It's just another Fasa-nomics snafu. That said, I don't remember a lot of Taurian bitching in the threads I've been in over the last month (although I *was* out for the last few), so I can't help but think they're entitled to a bit of it every now and again. It's not like there's a tax on post characters displayed on our screens.

**Your definition of "fun" may vary. Please see your local doctor for details.

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>all this shitposting.
Have the back cover of MW 1e.

Whelp. I don't think I've ever seen ANY factionfag get this mad in /btg/ before.
This just goes towards my theory that fans of something, no matter how rabid, will never become as annoying as somebody who hates something

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>all these round eyes so focused on taurians that they don't see Xin Sheng 2 in the works

all according to pran

>>44417714

Kek.

Taurians argue "straight" only until someone brings up a source, then it's all about retcons, fiat, and completely ignoring what they said in favour of >muh graceless cunt, >muh autist, and >no u.

Rage on though, anon. Keep fighting the good fight or whatever.

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>>44417748

That leg ladder will never not be funny. Offhand, does anyone know if that image or Decision at Thunder Rift came first? Keith describes a leg ladder (on the outside of a Shad's leg) at one point, and I wonder of the artist misinterpreted that idea, or if Keith re-interpreted this art to make some sort of sense.

>>44417769
except you'll note the "taurian" here (very loosely applied) was in the right, and his opponent stooped to literal namecalling when he lost.

So I have to echo your post: rage on though, anon. Keep fighting the good fight or whatever.