/srg/ - Shadowrun General

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How often do you use maps? Any GM's here? I am just curious because I want to use a combination of theater of the mind AND maps. When would the maps come into play though? For example, I am thinking of having the group find some way into a factory, I wouldn't need a map of the surround area while they are info gathering but I would probably want a map of the factory right?

>>44306875
Not a GM (though I'm gearing up for a campaign), but from a player's perspective, this is probably what should be covered:

- A rough map of the factory, at the very least. You're going to have combat in the factory from the sound of it, have it ready for players to be there.

- A general idea of the surrounding buildings. Doesn't have to be a map, but just like, "there's a warehouse across the street, two stories, windows facing the factory". Might have a sniper, might have a place the rigger wants to park, might have somewhere the decker wants to hide.

- Have an idea of where it is overall. If you're in Auburn, you're gonna have a lot of factories. If you're in Tacoma, more likely to have docks and warehouses. Helps for describing the scene. You don't need to map all this, but it's just good setting stuff. There's a few maps of 2075 Seattle floating around that might help you.

tl;dr Map the factory and its grounds, have an idea of what's around it.

Anyone got any story time?

anyone here looking for more players for shadowrun 5e? online sessions of course.

I will be a new GM soon. Someone was telling me that GM's really need to use the noise and background count mechanics of the system because otherwise deckers and casters can get out of hand? I don't want to screw people over though so how exactly does noise and background counts effect matrix users and casters?

Like are background counts always present?

In 5e, is there an advantage to dual wielding specifically? Beyond just looking kinda cool, it looks like it uses the same rules as doing multiple attacks, which gives up accuracy for potential damage.

>>44307152
How I understand it you can actually only use multiple attacks while dual wielding.

>>44307152
Depends on how you do it, and how much stock you place in the combat actions rules to override multiple attack rules. If you don't, then it exists mainly to stop your massive prime runner dice pools from losing hits to accuracy limits.

>>44307655
It says "multiple attacks from a single melee weapon and attacking with two different weapons (firearms or melee)."

Pg.196 for reference.
So I guess you need two guns in order to get multiple attacks, but in melee, you can get multiple attacks regardless.

>>44307711
You don't need two guns, but you do need to read p165-167, while understanding semi-auto burst and long burst on p179.

>>44307711
Makes sense. SA firearms can use SA burst which simulates multiple attacks.
It's stupid you actually can't double-tap though.

Does a deck also work as a link, or should a decker get both?

>>44307782
>If the firing character is short on ammo, reduce each of the modifiers applied by 1 for each bullet they are short.

If you fire off a Semi-Automatic Burst, but only use two bullets, it changes from [–2 def, 3 bullets] to [-1 def, 2 bullets].

Wait, wait-

Rigger 5 is out? Really?

>>44307839
Commlinks do slaving and high DR / DP / FW for less nuyen. Having both is useful (especially if your group allows modding in program carrier: virtual machine - you can run an agent on the commlink instead of switching between the two devices), but not necessary.

>>44307904
for like a week now

>>44307145
In 5th edition, background counts occur when emotions run high, or where bad or good shit happens. In an area with more traffic, the worse astral pollution usually is unless someone's policing it. A lodge might make casting easier, for example, while a serial killer's murder site will fuck up casting.

Noise happens when it's hard to get a wifi signal. Lots of stuff in an area will cause noise, as well as distance between the hacker and the item being hacked, physical barriers also screw over signals somewhat and any active jammers in the area will have an effect too.

You probably shouldn't go overboard, but remember to use them in defenses of corp buildings. Mages will find it harder to cast on corp grounds if they've made it unfriendly to mages, and most corps will have some jamming if they want a site locked down.

Read the 5E gamemaster rules in the core books about countermeasures to mages and deckers, and don't go overboard on them - remember that corps are on a budget, too.

>>44307997
With regard to background counts, it's worth noting that they can be pretty damn large (cities, nations, etc), that they can be nested like matryoshka dolls, and that you slowly acclimate to the BGCs you're in - while you remain in them.

A murder or bombing in a nice neighbourhood can change the local background count drastically, but have less / no effect on, say, an Aztlaner gladiator ring. The area is already astrally shite, but the locals are used to it.

>>44307782
Run and Gun, complex action to get +1DV

>>44307997
What's your ballpark number on noise, for the average corporate facility? I feel like I've got background count down fine, but I'm not sure about noise.

>>44306875
Keep a map of the factory for yourself, maybe roughly outline some of the surroundings though. Only give them a map of the factory if they manage to get one ICly, otherwise just use your map as a reference for what to tell them. I prefer rough distances to grids.

Did rigger 5 fix riggers?

>>44309953
You've got more options sure, but it hardly redacts any of the shit they've already got to deal with.

>>44309953
What was broken about them before? I thought aside from an absent mod ruleset, it was in general better-designed than 4e's rigging.

>>44310021

Well, >>44310021 is right to an extent. But there's a LOT more drones that can actually take a hit, and repair rules for drones actually exist. Once they're toast, they're still toast, but your drones can survive more than one encounter. Vehicles got interesting and have loads of modifications, but I haven't had the chance to playtest any of it. I've got a rigger in the group I'm GMing for soon, so I'll get to find out soon.

Overall, I'd say it improved them, but I don't know so much about it fixing them.

I know weeb deckers/technomancers are bog standard, but how common are mecha nut riggers?

>>44309633
It depends on the Corp and their reliance on stuff. It normally won't be an issue because the hacker will be either connected directly to the machine he's trying to hack, or he'll be having to deal with the host. Noise is only really an issue if the decker is outside the compound, and the device is inside, in which case 2-4 noise penalty is probably due because of physical walls in the way. Inside, he can use the Corp grid.

Why is this thread so dead? FIRE UP THEM STORIES!

What do you guys think of the ares roadmaster? Why would you buy a shitty as bulldog over it?

>>44311308
Eh, I hoped with the starting question I'd be able to get some stories going. I can share a fixer concept (which ties in with a location concept, actually) that I've got, but unfortunately it kind of sucks.

The Bulldog is good because it's inconspicuous. The Roadmaster is an armored car; the Bulldog is a commercial van that you'd expect to be used by, you know, people who aren't shadow operatives.

>>44311389

So what are you trying to say about the ares roadmaster? ARE YOU FUCKING WORKING FOR SAEDER KRUPP!? FUCKING GOY!

>>44311587
I never said the Roadmaster is bad. It can't really measure up to some other American products, but it's solid if all you're using is Core.

>>44311633

other products in which books? You mean the options in rigger 5?

>>44311787
Yep. Rigger 5's got a lot of nice options. Not all of them are as heavily armored (most aren't, honestly), but they're a lot less conspicuous and have better road performance.

Or, you know. You can buy a tank.

>>44311844

What kinds of runs have GM"s here setup before?

>>44312117
Good question, and one I really want answered as well, since I'm going in blind GMing.

Please send help

>>44312190

Are you a newer GM? I am going to be a newer GM too. I am mostly worried about keeping people entertained especially since I am probably going to have to GM for STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET.

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>>44312117
Anything and everything. You are only limited by your imagination.

But if you're stuck, here's a little kicker for you.

>>44312571
Good lord, this is the very best. I have some of my story planned but couldn't figure out filler runs.

If I get a full cyberarm, does that come with hands?

If not, how do you replace everything but your hands with chrome?

>>44313271
I like it because a lot of the runs can be taken in a very serious tone or a very silly one, just depending on the way the GM and players treat it.

>>44313317
Yes it comes with hands.

>>44313331
>it comes with hands
Thanks. I feel silly now.

Is it just me, or can drones no longer take stuff like chameleon coating with rigger 5?

>>44313475
They ever could in the first place in 5th?

(Personally, I'm allowing *almost* all the vehicle mods to be used on drones as well, with GM approval)

>>44312571
I'm always a little disappointed when people don't link the SaveVsDm site. I know this is easier, but that joke never gets old.

>>44313493
Yeah. One of the pdf-only releases had price listing for smuggling compartments, chameleon coating, and some other stuff. No mod points, no restrictions, no actual rules for use.

>>44313892
Was it one of those 4e/5e cross-compatible releases?

In 5e, what do I need to know to play a decker? Is there, like, a guide for which skills are useful and which aren't? Or something that sets a relative guideline for order of operations?

>>44313475
The drone mod ruleset is optional, but if you're using it, I don't think there's a way to get chameleon coating on there.

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>>44314556
Here's a helpful pdf

Your going to end up using Hacking to perform hack on the fly a lot. Hardware is used to repair your deck and help force a jack-out if you get link-locked.

>>44314632
Thanks, chummer

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Hey guys want a fun story?

> "Drone limb armor does not affect the drone in any way"
According to a person in my shadowrun group. He got around to talking to one of the devs concerning anthroform drones. The writter said quote:

>"the average character has 12 soak"

When asked about why anthroform drones are so weak. So this guy, who has been playing shadowrun since the 2nd edition went through all the ways rules as written you can use the limb armoring rules to get more armor for drones.

>so I ran through all the things that you could get at chargen and he said, "not at my table"

Yes that's right, the writer wrote the book only considering his table. MERRY CHRISTMAS CHUMMER!

>>44314853
Yep. House ruled it already so that drone limbs for anthroform drones count for armor. I talked to Wak similarly, and the rules for anthroform drones... kind of suck. I'm just gonna rewrite them entirely.

If you're going to carry a pistol at all, is there a single reason to go with a light pistol over a heavy pistol?

>>44315066
The Ares 70 has a better silencer for it, and they can more easily be concealed (I talked my GM into letting my store my Ares 70 in my cyberleg holster since it was a light pistol with a special silencer.

>>44315066
Light pistols also seem to have more accuracy across the board, but it probably evens out with the higher damage of the heavy pistols.

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>>44315066
Concealability. Capacity and accuracy are often better in light pistols as well.
It's also easier to claim a light pistol is for self defense than a heavy pistol. You really need that hand cannon to walk up to the Bellevue Stuffer Shack, omae?

>>44315181
>Capacity
Honestly doesn't seem to be that different, highest ammo capacity is the same for both, 30 bullets
>accuracy
Seems to be a wash there as well, with a 1 point difference at best
>Concealability
I supposed this is it, you really can't put a ruger super warhawk up your asshole, right?

So, in SR 5, Solid Rep (RF 149) says the character gets +1 or +2 Rep with a group, but then I can't find any reference to Reputation and the information on groups (RF 176) doesn't mention anything aside from vaguely describing how groups work. Is it just a flat and simple bonus to their utilization of them?

>>44315253
>can't put a ruger super warhawk up your asshole
Right, a heavy pistol can't fit into a skin pocket or regular size smuggling compartment.

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Hey guys!

I posted in the last thread and there seemed to be a lot of support for changing our current rep in the 4chan divegrass bowl from Rigger to America-san, and now that I've got a bit of a response from the community, I made a strawpoll so we can see some tangible results.

Feel free for who you think should represent /srg/ in the cup below.
http://strawpoll.me/6334139

>>44315595
Feel free to vote for*

>>44315181
The issue about concealability is that in any place where you would reasonably need to hide weapons and do a run will generally have MAD scanners or something of the like.
Maybe my GM is just a dick about that though.

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limits were a mistake

>>44316127
Agility not being part of physical limit was a mistake.

>>44316194
When does the physical limit come into play? Unarmed combat and athletics and stuff?

>>44315115
Isn't 75 cheaper, less illegal and a better gun?

>>44316194
Precisely.

>>44316264
Other way around

>>44316264
No. Other way around.

75 is forbidden, slightly less accuracy, and about 1000 nuyen more. However, it comes with an in-built smart link. Yay.

>>44316330
70 is still cheaper, even if you buy it with a smartlink and a suppressor.

>>44316352
Yeah. The 75 is literally worthless.

>>44316352
Not to mention, that smartlink will make it more accurate than the 75 with it's in-built smart link active. And they can BOTH get the special suppressor.

>>44316367
You mean the 75 is a brilliant stroke of marketing by Ares corp

>>44316219
Also stealth.

>>44316194
Agility already adds to the dice pools of 99,95% tests in the system. Making it affect limits on top of it would be a bit of an overkill.

>>44316428
But of course. Since it's forbidden, people will think it's good. And the in-built smart link? Hey, that means I don't have to buy and outfit my gun with one, so I'm probably saving money in the long run!

>>44316432
I still maintain that limits should have been based on skill level.

>>44316481
What would you do for defaults then?

>>44316648
>limit of 1 for most troll players

My players would be very sad

>>44314853
12 soak is body 3 and a lined coat. That's hardly a lot of armour.
>>44316596
Hrm. Edge rating?

>>44314586
Thank fuck. I thought I was going to have to give up on my pixie's Ares Cheetah mount.

>>44316663
Well your players should be using limit bonuses from gear to compensate for their relative lack of skill.

>>44316663
They deserve it for being trolls tbqh. Not even humanis, but trolls are absolute scum.

>>44316673
Sure but you cant go too much higher without being conspicuous, encombered (for a str 2-4 character), or expensive. Its on the low end sure but will fit in pretty much anywhere but a corperate boardroom

Wouldn't skill rating/2 (rounded up) work best? People defaulting have a limit of 1, and the real masters of the art with 12 ranks have a limit of 6.

>>44316803
I dont get how you are finding issues with limits, there is so much that can boost them. Accuracy can be increased by 2-3 with only a couple of mods; social limit can increase by wearing cloathes, if your doing something that requires a high physical limit then you proberly have high physical stats already and thus a high limit. Decking limits are one of the hardest to raise as not everyone has 100s of thousands to get a good deck

>>44316946
Oh I'm fine with them, I was just mentioning an alternative for those that aren't happy with it.

>>44316803
That's sort of what I was thinking, yeah. Skill rating /2, plus limit bonuses from gear or qualities would mean that you need to be skilled to really excel at doing stuff, but people coasting by on natural talent can still use high-quality gear to compensate.
>>44316946
You're right, it makes a lot of sense that palming and disguise depend on having a high body and strength. Street urchins are well known for their incredible physique like that.

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>>44316946
>if your doing something that requires a high physical limit then you proberly have high physical stats already and thus a high limit
Falls apart when you're sneaking or picking pockets though. Having to be an xbox hueg pro bodybuilder to get successes with agility skills is what's broken about physical limit ignoring agility.

>>44317113
disguise using the physical limit is dumb anyway
makes more sense to use the social limit

I don't think my retarded troll autist should be a master of disguise but I'm better at it then the party face which is ridiculous

>>44317108
It also sorta means that you can get right fucked in some areas though, unless almost everything has limit boosters.

>>44317256
Isn't disguise Int?

>>44317309
It uses int, but also uses the physical limit. And what combat focused character doesn't put points in int? I want to dodge all the bullets

So despite being better at the skill, and having better int, his low physical limit makes him completely shit at the skill

>>44317393
>physical limit
>not mental
what the fuck nigga

>>44310418
By the lack of response, i'm going to assume "very"

>>44317665
It's a physical active skill
so it uses the physical limit

makes no fucking sense

>>44317393
How do you have a bad physical limit on a combat character? Did you just dump STR to 2 and think nothing would happen?

>>44318026
you misunderstood. The problem is that my combat character is better at disguise then the face character because disguise uses the physical limit.

The face guy isn't a combat character (I mean, he can still shoot good because elf and accuracy being a different limit to physical limit), so he's shit at disguise.

>>44318063
So get your combat guy to do his makeup

Why was hestaby stripped of her horde? And what position does that leave her in economically? I know Shasta Mountain's protectors have been scattered.

Also wondering how most people saw the event given Hestaby was, in 4e, considered the most metahuman friendly dragon?

>>44318319
hestaby was kind of a snowflake "the one good dragon" wank NPC the entire time, like Buttercup
So a lot of people just wanted her to fucking go away

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>>44318296
>badass street samurai full of scars daintly applying makeup and doing the hair of the face guy

>>44318327
that answers the meta, I was curious about the IC reason. Meta means shit if they can't back it up decently ICly.

>>44318397
I don't remember what all happened, I've really been half-ignoring the metaplot throughout the 5e cycle

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huh, I found this old thing I did. Never quite got around to writing the 5e statline.

So, what IS Santa in the world of Shadowrun?

>>44318386
Is shadowrun chronicles any good? That's the online multiplayer version of the shadowrun returns games right?

>>44318463
The way corp parents explain why their kids get Renraku-branded presents while the ork children get hepatitis.

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>>44318471
it's shit

>>44318492
damn that sucks, I was half hoping they'd found a way to make it work like NWN1 and 2, thus letting people build multiplayer campaign settings and private servers...

>>44318481
I reckon one of the Great Dragons has a body that fits the bill as well.

>>44318397
She wanted UN to kill Sirrurg. Other dragons went butthurt, because they consider themselves to be above metahuman laws.

>>44318531
Dragons don't give things away.

>>44318547
Well I know nothing about anything then. I suppose you could have a Runner doing a side job as a mall Santa, which would be rather hilarious if they were a troll.

>>44318570
The shopping malls went out of business when the suburbs went away, and the human parents are too racist to let their kids near a troll in weird pajamas.

>>44318592
Well Christmas has gone down the toilet.

>>44318610
Ask it if the ghouls in the sewers were naughty or nice.

Any ideas for a run where PCs work for neo-anarchists?
I want to introduce my players to different policlubs, but so far have only got an Idea for Humanis.

>>44318631
you don't understand, the celebration of Christmas is Dead, Deaceased! It has hopped off this mortal coil! THIS IS AN EX-HOLIDAY!

>>44318670
Dunkelzahn is dead too, that doesn't stop his evil rift-demons from waking up Grandma's corpse and killing your family with it.

>>44318670
It can`t die. Christmas is too profitable for corps.

>>44318463
Free Spirit of Man, in my games. Uses a Contract of Joy to share karma with those who help bring gifts to those so deserving. May actually be a corporate-affiliated advertising system.

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>>44315181
>It's also easier to claim a light pistol is for self defense than a heavy pistol.
Depends on how tacticool and mallninja the gun is

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>>44318386

>>44316264
>>44316330
>>44316352
I don't know how you guys play it, but where I am, you can't holster a pistol or fit it into a small compartment with a silencer attached. Integral (RAW, those that come with the weapon / don't take up mount locations) silencers are exempt.

what is the sextant of worlds and what does it do exactly?

>>44319258
Yeah, that's the one thing the 75 would be useful for.

But I was able to get my GM to let me holster my Ares 70 in my cyberleg holster with its silencer on because of how much capacity the leg can hold in total and how much the cyber holster can hold. Also, the cyber holster itself says it can hold up to a pistol, so we decided that a light pistol with a silencer was probably only a little bit bigger than a normal heavy pistol, so it would be fine.

Quick question, chummers.

I'm in an upcoming 5e campaign and our group is using the life modules for character creation. My first character is an old ex-military, ex-shadowrunner returning into the game, I'm super excited to play an older character whom has dependents.

BUT, our group's GM has also told us to create 2nd characters in case our first one's get frag'd.

I was thinking of making an "ex" or reformed terrorist, whom became disenfranchised with his cause after witnessing some atrocity. I'd have him good with automatics and chemistry... making him good with an AK and home-made chem weps.

What are some terrorist organizations in the Shadowrun universe? (preferably non-religious, but I could make it work).

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>>44320010
Check the 5e book "10 Terrorists"

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>>44320010
The hardcore Humanis/Sons of Sauron branches fit the bill, as do the most extreme of neo-anarchists for "generic" choices.

For more detailed (but maybe harder to bring in a campaign) organizations, check this little PDF out.

Can I get some help on a fun character build for 4e?
GM said we aren't allowed to use magic and I'm absolutely clueless on what to do because of that

>>44320045
>>44320078

Hey thanks guys! I didn't know about this book! I'll take a look!

Anyone have any good augmented gnome portraits / pics? It's hard to find dwarfs that don't look old or have facial hair.

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>>44320268
Oof, that could be a tricky one. I don't have that much gnome art.

>>44318632
Well, neo-anarchists will want to run vs the corps right? How do policlubs fit into this?

Is there any expansion on chemistry, detailing what exactly it can do and what the rules are for that?


Trying to determine if it's worth investing in for my character

>>44320010

Same guy as before, another question:

I mentioned my guy would be into chemestry, so I was thinking chem-grenades, are there any 5e books that give me more toxins? I have the few toxins from the core book... are their any other 5e books that give me more options?

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So /srg/ I'm writing a metaplannar quest for my party's Wolf Shaman's initiation. Its his second grade and second time using a metaplannar quest. His first test was largely about leadership, Wolf wanted him to act more as a pack alpha, which he did by organizing small beast spirits which took the form of his party mates in various canine forms.
I'm thinking his second quest will be focusing on combat prowess, and that since its his second quest that there be a much more obvious chance at failure, or at least an increased difficulty. My plan so far is that Wolf tells the shaman that a foreign spirit has trespassed within his astral forest and the shaman (with the aid of his spirit party and ally spirit so the other PCs aren't sitting bored) are to hunt it down, kill it, and present Wolf with a trophy as tribute.

How's the best way to do this sort of thing? Knowing the shaman he'll default to using the Search power of his Ally Spirit to find the thing, and I think that's kind of lack luster, to turn half the quest into a single set of dice rolls.

What makes a street samurai? I am interested in playing one as a new player but I don't just want to be a dude with a bunch of guns. Like, how do you even make street samurai enticing and interesting for the group? Also, is having a criminal sin a bad idea?


I have a lot of ideas for my character but it just seems so... Plain? Not trying to be a snow flake but I am trying to avoid being just a chromed up dude with guns.

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>>44320926
Street Samurai is a cover all term for anything from "guy with gun" to "robocop super sword killer guy" Don't invest too much into the term as its much more broad than saying you're a hacker or a magician.
How do you make one enticing and interesting? Create a character who's primarily skill is combat but include a collection of interesting side skills. Maybe he's a driver as well or former military or field medic.

>>44320992
I understand now. How effective are street samurai compared to adepts? Ideally... I would like to be a street samurai/rigger. I don't want to be the kind of rigger just sitting in the van. Is such a thing possible?

>>44307099
What timezone?

>>44315009
>>44314853

Because drone armor has a baby version of hardening, you goddamn twits. Remember that any damage lower than their armor rating just BOUNCE.

>>44315066

Because heavy pistols are fucking garbage. Light pistols are more accurate, which negates the damage advantage of HPs on skilled shooters, more concealable, carry more ammunition and are cheaper.

>>44321038
>How effective are street samurai compared to adepts?
At same levels of optimisation/min-maxing, street sam is a little better straight out of the box, but the adept will overtake him quickly. Essence is finite where karma is not; and upgrading 'ware costs a lot of nuyen.

>I would like to be a street samurai/rigger. I don't want to be the kind of rigger just sitting in the van. Is such a thing possible?
In theory, yes. In practice... You'll run out of nuyen (too) quickly. You can easily "rig" by buying drones, a RCC loaded with programs and have your drones supplement what you do, but those things cost nuyen just like augs.

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>>44321038
Anything is possible in SR. The only difference, in my opinion, between gun-play, no martial arts adepts and a street sam is one uses up essence to get higher stats and the other uses BP/Karma (My experience is mostly with 4e, but I assume its similar in 5)
Want to climb a building? An adept would jump and wall spring his way up while a sam would use climbing gear, brute force via cybernetic limbs or springy robo-leg.
Want to act faster? An adept uses the increase relfexes power. A sam uses wired reflexes.

If you're aug'd up rigging is pretty easy to do (in 4e at least, in 5 you'd have to deal with the VCR which might have other stipulations.) You probably wouldnt be jumping in since you'd be in gun combat too so you'd be giving your drones orders for them to act upon autonomously similar to a mage's spirit or you'd be remotely controlling them via your commlink/VCR which could be implants in a cyberarm or head commlink. Pic Related

>>44321068
Even then, an AK-97 loaded with regular ammo is enough to bypass 12 "baby hardened" armor, and enough to take down a drone and its 7-8 condition monitor boxes in one good hit.

And that's not getting into hunting rifles or APDS ammo territory.

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You know, I just got to thinking about it. How does magic work in Shadowrun proper? If a dragon is trying to polymorph, does that just work instantly or does it require some sort of casting time? What happens if some cybered up troll that's really pissed off gets their hands on a great dragon in humanoid form and starts going hulk smash on them?

>>44320078
>>44320045

>Omega Dawn

Oh god, that is a GM's wet dream

>>44321106
The Borderlands 2 Vault Hunters would make a great Running team wouldn't they?
>Axton: Rigger
>Maya: MysAd and Face
>Salavador: GunAd
>Zer0: Infiltrator
>Gaige: Technomancer (I think)
>Kreig: Street Sam.

>>44321166

It's an innate magical ability that transcend normal magic and only available to Dragons that are at least 3 ages old and sworn to the "great dragon clubhouse".

Hulk would shake the Great pretty good though. I mean, he's himself basically a demigod too, and would be more than a match to wrestle a great.

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>>44321270
>mfw he suplexes Lofwyr.

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>>44320364
Tell me about it. I thought I'd look up Eclipse Phase art and be done, but that seems like a dead end, too.

Closest I found, and I'm not a fan.

>>44320594
Neo-anarchists ARE a policlub. I just dont know what to do with them outside of boring "smash into corp office, download data and transfer to us"

>>44306875
yeah, generally it's a good idea of mapping out where the run is going down, marking where cameras and other countermeasures are, plus SR is like 75% planning, so your PCs will try to get the map somehow at some point probably.

>>44321166
>What happens if some cybered up troll that's really pissed off gets their hands on a great dragon in humanoid form and starts going hulk smash on them?
Dragons are very tough even in human form. And it`s not impossible for them to sustain something like undetectable Force 30 armor spell.

>>44321321
>mfw it was part of lofwyr's plan
Now he controls south korea, thanks hulk

Reposting the strawpoll from above for those who didn't see it, this is a poll for who we think should represent shadowrun on the /tg/ football team in the 4chan winter divegrass competition.
http://strawpoll.me/6334139

>>44321423
I mean, there are a LOT of different policlubs for basically every point of view, and anarchy has probably the most in this respect, so it would depend on the specific organization. One might want the PCs to dress up as lone star and shoot up a shopping mall, another might want you to break into an Ares facility and release the recipes for explosives to public domain, while another might want you to knock over a statue by town hall.

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>This is the security at the compound

So that's why the legwork took so long...

What are some newb traps in shadow run 5? I am a new player and I don't want to fall for shitty options and waste resources on shit. I already play a land Druid in DnD 5e abd it was pretty shit.

>>44322053
I think it's most important to understand the area you want to do well be it magic, the matrix or cyberware. Also make sure the GM has a clear understanding of your abilities, you don't want to be playing a Face when the GM only knows how to run smash and grab missions.

Okay so a quick character concept I came up with, and I want to make it viable, can you guys help me out.

So I want to have what once was a free AI, now forced into a drone or a bunraku doll , and having it's memory erased. It now believes it is entirely human, and doesn't recognise itself as a robot.

I was thinking running it as a technomancer, but I'm getting stuck figuring out qualities. Distinctive style is a must, but no idea for positive or even skills for that matter.

Can my fellow neckbeards help me out here, please?

>>44322143
Why not just make an AI?

>>44322177
I liked the idea of having an unknowing AI that has absolutely no idea what it can do in the matrix beyond the stuff technomancers know. And my gm banned straight up AIs after a previous group effectively ended his campaign with one

>>44322143
>or a bunraku doll
Could always go the Curie route and use someone who went braindead.

>>44322243
Could work...

Are cyber limbs not good? I like the idea of having a single suped up cyber arm. Is that a bad idea if you are a street samurai?

>>44322429
Its usefulness will entirely depends on what kind of street sam you want to play.

Weapon master, not so much, there are better options. Soak monster tank, very.

>>44322188
I demand storytime. I keep hearing stories about AIs ruining campaigns, but I've never actually been given a concrete reason for why.

Mechanically speaking, technomancers pretty much depend on using and abusing their sprites for teamwork tests, so you want high pools for Compiling. Beyond that, there's not much to playing the class. They're not particularly good, to be honest.
>>44322429
The God-Hand cyberarm is generally best for mundane non-combat characters that don't have attribute points to spare for increasing their Agility.

>>44320772
Chrome flesh has a bit for making your own drugs and toxins. It's a little lackluster by default, but if you have a half decent GM they'll help you out

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What if Lofwyr was a Stand User?

How does /srg/ feel about flamethrowers?
Not at all subtle, but do they at least do their job?

>>44323170
A good way to get on news headlines and cause horrible collateral damage
So fantastic for some jobs, absolute shit for others.

>>44323170
Generally anything that takes an Exotic Skill is not good, but you can stick a flamethrower in a weapon mount, and it will use the extremely broad Gunnery skill (basically anything on a weapon mount). Of course it requires some sort of vehicle, but with Rigger 5.0, I'm sure you'll have fun building yourself a killing machine.

>>44323170
Mount on flying drone, have it blare "Walkurenritt" while it torches the place.

>>44323218
>I'm sure you'll have fun building yourself a killing machine.
Killdozer with Legs and Grenade Launchers?

Hello SRG. I'm gonna be in a game of Shadowrun in the near future and I'm making my character as a Decker/Rigger. So far I think I've got a handle on things, but I'm unsure about how to best do my drones. So far I got a Lockheed X2 and a pair of Roto-drones, the former for surveillance and tracking and whatnot, the latter for close support. I've given them all Rating 2 Area Jammers, figuring that would help them against enemy hackers somewhat. Now I'm a bit confused as to what to do for weapons.

Initially, I was gonna give one of them an Ares Alpha, and the other one a Sniper rifle and shotgun for versatility. But reading on the autosofts, I need a separate one for each individual weapon, which means I'd need 4 (ares alpha, the underslung 'nade launcher, sniper rifle, shotgun), and at 500 nuyen per point of rating, that's a bit out of my league. Plus it'd mean 4 programs running on my RCC for sharing, meaning few or none left for things like Clearsight. And a drone's only able to have up to 2 programs of its own (pilot/2 round up, they're all pilot 3) and it's mutually exclusive to use drone autosofts or share from the RCC, so...

Am I reading this right, or have I missed something? It seems like my only option's to switch to each drone using a single weapon, the same for each, and even then spending a few more thousand nuyen on autosofts to let them shoot, see shit, and evade. Any advice?

>>44323396
"Ares Alpha" autosoft works for both the AR part as the grenade launcher, it's weapon-model specific and the Alpha has the grenade launcher by default.

On top of that, drones only have program slot on their own (it's device rating/2, not pilot/2)

>Am I reading this right, or have I missed something?
No, you're reading this (mostly) right. Stick to one single type of drone, all with the same weapon.

>>44323495
The PDF says just a bit before that that a drone's Device Rating is equal to it's pilot rating, and Chummer shows all 3 drones as Device: 3. Are they both errors?

Either way, thanks for the confirmation. Looks like it's gonna be even pricier than I thought. So, aside from Gunnery for the Ares Alphas and Clearsight, should I go for any of the other autosofts? I shouldn't need EWAR since I've already got that skill myself, and the drones can use your skill if it's slaved to your RCC, correct? That leaves sneaking, piloting and evasion. Any of those worth it?

>>44323396
Your drones will be part of a PAN under your Rigger Control Center RCC. They will use the firewall of the RCC to defend, so the jammers are somewhat useless. They're still flying jammers, but enemy deckers will go straight for your RCC and if they control that your drones are all either useless, or theirs.

The solution for your software limitations is to get a decent RCC, so you have enough software slots to run clearsight, weaponsofts, and pilot so they can dodge. That's not that many, a Rating 5 RCC only costs 64k ¥, which leaves you with 2 spare slots for either a second weaponsoft or utility.

If that's expensive for you... Decker isn't supposed to be the same class as Rigger. You gotta pick one or be mediocre at both.

>>44323573
The jammers were to create extra noise for any other hackers that tried to go for them, make it more difficult, but you make an excellent point about them just going for the RCC.

Thanks for the advice!

>>44323170

You'll need them to fight off killer plants in a lab.

>>44323570
Table on pg. 421 says drones have a DR of 2. And rating = pilot doesn't make sense now that a pilot program can be upgraded and run from a RCC.

But even then, if you go with DR = base pilot, it's still not enough to load out a drone to be efficient on its own.

>>44323396
Yeah your reading it correctly, it would require individual autosofts to run different weapons as well as different ones for different drones. It would be easier to jump in and just use your skills but you should get a control rig to help with that. Now the recent Rigger 5.0 book has a better work around - swarms. Buy multiple of the same drones and put the various autosofts across the team (probably put manuver on the RCC though) swarm them together and they share the autosofts get a dicepool and limit increase and use the highest pilot program or your RCCs device rating.

I dont know how you are intending to be a rigger and a decker at character creation. RCCs are fairly expensive but decks are prohibitively so, plus it means your attention is going to be everywhere (and nowhere). If your wanting to be a rigger with some combat skill, grab long arms, sneak and a Agi boosted cyberarm; you wont be able to take a hit but thats not the point, snipe and have a shotgun handy, hide when shit hits the fan etc.

If you want to be a rigger with some defensive measures get the best RCC and comlink; put a program carrier on each; wrapper on the RCC and Smoke and mirrors on the comlink (grab a sleaze dongle for it as well) disguise your drones with the RCC and protect the groups important gear with the comlink (running silent with max sleaze of course)

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Am I able to use 4th edition Runner's Companion in my 5th edition character so I can have access to the Day Job negative quality?
I'm trying to make a runner who has a dayjob spinning mega corporate signs like this and has the distinctive style trait as well because he's forced to carry it on his back as per his contract with the company.
Is it better to just forgo the dayjob quality and just have the character be stuck with the sign and for them to have a goal in trying to get it removed from their back?

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>>44323643
Hey-o

>>44323683

Day Job is a negative quality available from Run Faster with varying levels of 5/10/15

Lowest avail on a flamethrower is 14, fuck.

>>44323681
>I dont know how you are intending to be a rigger and a decker at character creation

By being inexperienced enough at the system to not realize that it was a bad idea due to the sheer costs, to be perfectly honest. The team needs a hacker, but I really wanted to play a rigger. So, being the naive guy I am, I figured I'd do both! Apparently that's not really viable without being mediocre at both though, I'm coming to realize.

>>44323683
4th edition is incompatible with 5th. You can't translate between the two, the systems are too different.

But 5th has it's own rules for Day Job. It's in Run Faster I think.

>>44323729
Do you mind explaining how I get additional sourcebooks into chummer 5th?
I assume it's just downloading the pdf and uploading it into chummer, right?

>>44323570
You will nead a manuver autosoft or else your pilot 2 drone is rolling 1 die to move anywhere. I am not sure if your skills matter unless you jump in. Directional jammers on something small that can sneak up to the deckers position and blast them with spam could be useful, but so is just gunning him down (leathal or not) sneaking or evasion is not that useful on a rotodrone following the party but defently useful on the x2

>>44323736
Get a flametosser instead. While there is a lower av flamethrower, the ammo is also difficult to find.

>>44323764
You can just make a rigger and the party will have to hire an NPC decker. That will also allow the GM to focus more on the group. Deckers tend to split the attention up while they do their thing. If you have an NPC do the decking the GM can just do all the rolls in the background.

What would your character do if they found out their fixer was a dragon?

>>44323769
Under Options. You checkmark the books you want, then restart chummer.

>>44323782

Facepalm and drink more whiskey. Then go back to the wife and kids at the end of the day.

>>44323782
Change countries. Burn their SIN
Our party has done this for lesser reasons that dragons.

>>44323781
Hmm, interesting. I'll run it by the GM and see what he thinks, thanks for the idea! And thank you again in general SRG, you guys are good people.

>>44323764
You can be a rigger and have most of the party protected with the combo i listed above (anyone can though - give the comlink to someone with high will) but you wont be able to hack doors or hosts. Deckers are like all the 'classes' you can get by without one but you have to take it into account for your runs

>>44323845
There's really no reason that the rigger should shell out for the comlink combo. Should be a shared expense, unless someone has too much money after chargen.
Have the mage pay for it.

>>44323782
Expect a better connections rating. See if he has any jobs available. See if he can arrange for 2 more boxes of stick and shock on my next order (im running a little low at the moment)

>>44323717

Hey with a little tweaking here and there the weird shit in the old RE games ends up being interesting to some of the missions.

>>44323845
Okay. The best RCC I can get due to availability is the Vulcan, and I can easily get a good commlink. I take it Program Carriers, wrapper, smoke+mirrors and sleaze dongles are in the Matrix section of the rules? I've only gotten to read the first few pages of that so far, I'll be continuing later today.

>>44323950
No, those are in Data Trails (except for wrapper).

>>44323971
Okay, I'll look into that then.

>>44321243

Damn Indoctrinated wageslaves who probably organize their own purge if they could. Imagine a bunch of Omega Dawn aligned politicians organizing a Purge so their operatives can clean house freely.

>>44324013
>>44323971
Technically by the missions errata dongles don't work with RCCs but that's fucking retarded because they are explicitly stated to have all the functions of a commlink.

>>44324284
Sure and so do Decks but game balance. Anyway in the idea above, the RCC isnt the one with the dongle, the comlink is. The idea is that all the groups guns and key cybernetics are protected by a high firewall on a decice that is super hard to find (sleaze: dongle 6, smoke and mirrors 5 = 11 + higest logic in group)

>>44324409
Oh
Sorry, I didn't realize
I just popped into the conversation and assumed people were doing something intuitive but against the rules because [reasons]

>>44322727
I don't know what his old players did, but he moved here only recently, and won't tell us what happened.

>>44322429
They are great for a normally non combatant such as a face, rigger or decker as they can boost your agi to decent levels, add some armour and a something else (smuggling compartment or air tanks). Have something like longarms at 6 then done, your agi 2 character is rolling 15+ dice on an attack. Hell even an awakened could take an arm and cyber eyes at the right grade and come out a head in versatility

>>44324542
Longarms is rather a bad example, since you need both arms for a rifle or shotgun.

Automatics or Pistols is a better choice. More than enough one-handed options in there.

>>44322429
A single cyberlimb for a Street Sam is IMO good for the stuff you can cram into it, like Smuggling Compartments and Grenade Fingers.

However, Cyberlimbs shine when your Decker has 6 in Pistols and gets an Agility 9 Cyberlimb so they can roll 15 dice for shooting.

Was looking at Hard targets and had an idea, how difficult would steel capped boots be to make as a weapon focus. A skinhead esc character kerb stomping a spirit just makes my day

>>44324573
Especially now that he can make a Targeting action from rigger 5.0 to give his smart gun a further bonus

>>44324595
No harder than any other melee weapon. Kick 'em where it hurts, you glorious madman!

>>44324569
Yep your right there. (My decker has a cybershotgun in his arm so he dosnt use two hands)

>>44324661
>>44324595
Take a martial art with Flying Kick and Kick so you can drop kick Spirits to the moon.

You are in the middle of a Run, when suddenly Horrors, what do?

>>44325124
Probably get eaten

>>44325124
Get the fuck out of dodge as fast as humanly possible, shooting at everything that moves and doesn't happen to be on my team.

And then, move at least a couple of states away. Another continent if at all possible...

>>44325124
Die.

>>44325124
Call up the dragon fixer from earlier in the thread and say that our prices have gone up

Are (fox) shapeshifters useful for anything other than for role play?

>>44325536
Make pretty good riggers

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>>44325536
Recon work in wilderness areas?

>>44326546
>wilderness area

You really want to go there, omae?

>>44326566
Nah I'll send the fox instead.

Fox Rigger with a terrible sense of humor?
>Ah ha! ha! ha! BOOM BOOM!

>>44325566
>>44326976
Is there any way around getting implants? They'll be rejected the first time the shifter changes forms unless they're deltaware.

>>44327022
>changing form
>not always being a fox

>>44327022
I'm surprised you didn't notice the subtle reference to Basil Brush.

>>44327775
Further support for my theory that I'm the only one on tg that isn't from the UK.

>>44327983
And that is further support for MY theory that people from other countries aren't all that bad.

>NAEBODY MOVE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcpRHX-MF8
I'll just call this PhysAd simulator

How would you adjudicate the Connection rating of a NPC whose main salient feature is being close to someone with influence, rather than having influence themselves, such as an executive's daughter or a politician's spouse?
SR5, if that makes a difference here.

>>44329265
One less or the same connection as the Executive or the politician, I'd say. They have differences in what they can offer and do that the executive or the politician can't

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Happy holidays /srg/

So I'm reading Lockdown all this stuff about Eliohann and Deus returning keeps coming up... just what is actually going on??

>>44329787
Who owns Coke in Shadowrun?
>>44329837
Technomancers and CFD are probably related to Deus.

>>44330027

I'm pretty sure the Coca-cola company still exists, or at least that's all the information I could find.

>>44330077

Which is good, because it means this line can still be relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ9B7owHxMQ

>>44306838
>Who are your best/favorite contacts that you've used or seen used?
My players had to deal with the consequences of a hold up in a train, and had to conduct a discreet investigation to find the ones who did it. The face/chaman critted an etiquette roll while talking to a victim and at the end of the mission (they managed to get all the stuff back) I felt I had to give them that one contact. So they got the Marketing Director of Ares Entertainment Europe in their contacts.

So far they called her once, to see if they could get invited to a party thrown by the guy they were supposed to kidnap. Now, since she discovered they weren't there for the champagne and the buffet they owe her one favour.

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>>44316127
Damn straight. I want my out of the box physad rolling 30 dice John Woo style.

Liek eh baüs.

>>44322053

>newb traps

Mystic Adepts. On the surface, you'd think you're super OP because at chargen you can do a lot of cool shit. Then you realize you need three time the Karma of everyone else AND still need money for most of it, making you lag behind so fast you're essentially locked at chargen level while everyone else outpace you nearly instantly.

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>>44330429
>Ammo types are stacked sideways
>Double Barrels are stacked over-under

>>44322188
>>44322143

Make a technomancer with a datalock and implanted commlink cyberware?

You'll loose a bit of Resonance (oh the agony! That is totally the most useful stat in the world!) but there you have it. That simple.

>>44319271
It's mysterious and powerful.

And its power is only exceeded by its mystery

>>44330027

Coca Cola is an A rating megacorporation (which means it's an international power player, focused on a single industry, and doesn't have extraterritoriality)

>>44330429

How the fuck can you reach your limits on a gun?

Get two Light Fire 70, add a smartlink, trigger removal, electronic firing and a improved range finder. If accuracy 10 is still too low for you, add a level of adept power that improve accuracy in Pistols for 11.

Take the positive quality that boosts your skill cap to 13 (7 at chargen), which allows you to have 4 ranks in the adept power that improves your skill. You now have a skill rating of 11 in pistols at chargen.

Take a speciality in Semi-Automatics.

Take 5 ranks in the Attribute Boost (AGI) adept power.

Be an Elf, increase your AGI limit through genetherapy, add a reflex recorder (pistol) bioware, natural smartlink in your eyes, a datajack and a rating 3 gammaware Muscle Toner. You now have a base AGI of 10.

Take the armorer skill, buy Explosive ammo with Hand Load mod kit. Add +1DV to your explosive ammo for a new total of +2DV -1AP. Do the same for Subsonic ammo and the get the unique silencers for the Light Fire 70.

CONGRATULATION, you now throw

10+7+4+2+1= 24 plus your net hits on the Attribute Boost test (Average 3) and up to +11 to both your pool and accuracy by using the Take Aim action with smartlinked guns... So you can technically easily have a pool of 38 with an accuracy of 22 on the first round of combat if you're ambushing.

You can either use your stupid-OP explosive ammo for high damage, or use your silencer, electronic firing and silencer with subsonic ammo for a whooping -8 to perception tests to spot you... which is enough to negate the dice pools of almost anyone not expressively waiting to hear you shoot.

Now go, my son, you are ready for the street.

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>>44330497

I'm a bit confused, can I take Adept Ways in 5e at Chargen? I get the implication that they are for initiates.

>>44330915

You can, you just can't have any of the enhancements or metamagics until you initiate.

If you don't buy them at chargen, they cost 2xKarma like every qualities... so get em at chargen.

>>44330915
They aren't for initiates, you can take them at chargen.

>>44330956
>>44330957
Sweet, thanks.

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>>44330872
I honestly didn't expect a real attempt as a response to my joke. But that is awesome and you should feel awesome.

Have some quasi cyberpunk dfc.

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Stat me

>>44331045
Absolutely not you degenerate.

>>44331045

-4 legs

>>44331027
>>44330872

Woops, sorry I meant base AGI of 11, (8+3) so add one more dice.

I'm sure I'm missing something some dice increase possibilities since I'm used to writing a dice pool of 28 out of chargen, not 25... I'll have to investigate eventually... maybe.

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I have a question guys?

Is there some kind of item that works like pic related.

Actual hover boots aren't necessary, but improving movement speed and stuff all roller blade tricks like would be rad. (Definitely no flying down or skating around buildings while slow falling)

>>44331045
B: Yes
A: Limber
S: As a horse
C: Cute
I: Box of rox
W: Maybe
E: Smooth

>>44331228
Skimmers.

>>44331228
Rollerblades and skimmers are cyberleg upgrades in Chrome Flesh. They greatly improve your speed at the cost of being a bit clumsier at other things when they are active. You can also install aqua jets.

>>44331265
do they have 4e equivalents that could be taken as upgrades to normal legs?

I'm kinda at my limit for cyber stuff (house ruled quality I got, all cyberware I take counts a delta quality, but I can't drop below 3 essence due to ware)

>>44331337
The fake Cyberlimbs from Spy Games have capacity IIRC.

>>44331404
oh neat! That would be perfect then as a basis for the stuff. Especially considering the same deal as rules for 'dissassembly' so you could hedge the rules to have it so he could turn them on and off without being more clumsy.

You could wear Half Leg Fake Cyberlegs all of the time and you wouldn't have a problem with being more clumsy until you pop the skimmers on.

>>44331516
Just checked the 4e rules in augmentation, they can be turned on and off at will, and they don't make you clumsier once you've spent a reasonable amount of time practicing on them (so gm fiat)

>>44330872
>a pool of 38 with an accuracy of 22
You're actually getting 2 shots at 19 dice with 11 limit here, which is notably different due to armor applying once to each shot.

Hrm. Do AI ever operate in AR? Rules would seem to indicate they don't, but I'm probably missing something.

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>>44320926
Well, let's start with why he chose killing as his livelyhood.
How does he view life? Does it matter too him who he kills?
Are there kinds of people he wouldn't kill?
Does a have a background that might have lead to this? Military? Criminal?

Was there some tragic event that made him "snap"?

Does he follow a code of honour?

Does he have a theme? A signature item or style?

There are a lot of things that can make a streetsam interesting and not just a murderhobo.

>>44331797
biowaste_storage_compartment.jpg

>>44331721
I don't think they can except, perhaps, if they've managed to nest themselves inside of a truly, TRULY massive drone as their home node?

>>44331614

2 shots at 19 with a limit of 22.

>>44331045
SLUT
L
U
T

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Are you lonely? Bereft of a waifu? Do your days seem pointless and dreary?

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>>44333065
This actually reminded me, I was gonna ask.

What are people's thoughts on modifications fro drones? They seem really limited compared to vehicles; the only worthwhile ones are Realistic Features, attribute enhancements, and weapon mounts. Hell, there... really aren't any other ones in the first place, besides a few specific to drone types, and limbs that don't do anything.

>>44333188

You really ain't creative or munchkin enough to be a rigger.

So, /srg/, now that Rigger 5.0 is out, riggers can get anthropomorphic drones that with a few upgrades (really, just Realistic Flesh 3-4 and a Synthskin Face Mask from Hard Targets, plus good Software and Disguise rolls are the part of the rigger) can successfully mimic a metahuman to the point of fooling even most extensive analysis (lots of dice on that disguise check, yo).

Now, aside from some esoteric aspects, what advantage do these have over a classic drone?

I've come up with a few fun uses for them (attendant on the rigger's food truck that he uses to transport the PCs, fake cop/medic/wageslave to be placed in a spot of the rigger's choice, disposable distraction, instant disposable cop distraction [only works if the drone is disguised as an ork], explosives-filled assassin, "live" band that plays the PCs' theme music) but other than their ability to use Metahuman weapons and armor, I'm not really sure what purpose they serve beyond being a neat gimmick. They can't make social tests, they have trouble operating without their wireless turned on (so they're obvious as hell if anyone checks), they can't yet be made MAD-proof... anyone have any good ideas?

>I'm not a robot
Not really sure anymore, captcha

>>44333253
I'm not the rigger for our group.

Taking a look at the modifications I didn't list:

>Amphibious: Not useful unless you have a motive system. Guess what modification doesn't exist for drones!
>Assembly Time Improvement: I could see this for rotodrones, but anything larger will take too long to assemble even with ATI installed, and anything smaller might as well just be transported intact.
>Customized: Does nothing. I'd use it anyway, but it's a zero-effect mod.
>Drone Arm: Okay, I'll give this credit in a few places, but most of the drones that could benefit from one already have one.
>Drone leg: Literally detrimental to put on your drone. Why would you ever use one of these?
>Gecko Grips: HERE'S the one that I missed. Gecko grip is useful as hell.
>Immobile: Gun turrets and industrial drones. The latter benefits more from being mobile, the former already exists without needing Immobile.
>SkyGuide: Two autosofts with the drawback that YOUR DRONE CAN BE SEIZED AT ANY TIME.
>Spotlight: Okay, it's a flashlight. Really that useful?
>Suspension Mod and Tire Mod: Only useful for a very small number of drones, and even then, not that great.

>>44333340
Jumping into them is where they're most likely to shine, honestly. Though having a swarm of them Customized to look like zombies or worse, and giving them mouth-mounted weapons, sounds goddamn hilarious as a gimmick.

>>44333417
What about shoving gear into the drone's various cyberlimbs?

Also, depending on GM, you may be able to use some vehicle upgrades on your drones (because drones are kinda autonomous vehicles).

>>44333417
The big thing drones get is shown on one line, to be honest: "Players who do not want to use a separate system can use the rules provided in the Building the Perfect Beast chapter (p. 150)", from p.122, second paragraph on the right. Lets you use either system, which is either the tiny babby system for Drones or the massive angry system for all Vehicles.

>>44333471
Okay, yeah, that's a good one.

The problem with jumping in is that, to be convincing, you have to devote a lot of stuff towards Face, and that can be hard to pull off for a rigger on a budget.

They work, they're just still more of a gimmick than anything else. I dunno. I've been trying to build a rigger oriented around using three of these things as essentially a drop-in hit squad, but I have to admit, they probably aren't as optimal as standard drones would be.

>>44333479
>>44333492

Incidentally, I was going to allow vehicle mods for all drones and capacity-using cyberware (with lowered overall capacity for balance's sake) for anthroforms. Good to know that at least one is reflected in the rules.

>>44307152
As far as I understand it, dual wielding only starts to get marginally useful when you are in prime runner territory. It is for street sams and other big hitters who are regularly rolling past their limits and losing hits because of it. Since you are splitting the dice pool between shots, you won't lose as many hits to limits.

>>44333417

> Regarding drone/vehicule mods
From what I understand, drones can still use the vehicule mods, just that the drone mod list replaces the equivalent vehicular mods (ex: Armor works differently). Either way, it's an optional system.

>Amphibious
Well technically, wheel, legs and rotos all work to thread water.

>Assembly Time
It allows you to easily move larger drones in pieces to more protected areas though. Similar to a samurai hiding gun pieces.

>Drone Arm/leg
Capacity. Also, hydrolic jacks and hoverboots.

>Gecko tips
You missed it? That explains

>Immobile
It gives you 2 mod slots on microdrones, 3 if you further lower sensor or similar. Put gecko tips and a rating 2 gun mount on a microdrone. Surprise turret!

>XGuide
Well there's another soft that allows you to bypass that penality, keeping all the benefits

>Spotlight
Like flashlights, it's super useful. A) It completely removes the light penalities on your target without revealing YOUR position PLUS it adds glare penalities to whoever it targets. Win-win.

>>44330872
>or use your silencer, electronic firing and silencer with subsonic ammo for a whooping -8 to perception tests
It's -7.

silencer -4

electronic firing -1

silencer with subsonic ammo -2

>>44334262
The Light Fire 70's got a special silencer that gets an additional -1, page 425.

>>44334113
>Amphibious
Get 2 cyberlegs with waterjets. Bam, you now have a water ninja bot.

>Drone Arm/leg
There's so much more you can do than just capacity and a couple tricks. Weapons, most gear, maybe even add a modular connector so that you can trade the drone's limbs with your street sam's. Sky's the limit.

>>44334370
Electronic Firing & Silencer are both barrel slot. You can't use both with a Lightfire 70, as the silencer is a separate purchase. You can with the 75, which comes with an integral silencer.

>>44334676
I still maintain that Electronic Firing should be a slotless mod, especially given that these are CASELESS guns and they would be electronically fired anyway.

>>44330483
Plus, you lose metaplanar access, which is important for a mage without access to plentiful corp resources.

>>44334791
That's a slippery slope to get started down. I'd say that with the introduction of electronic firing as a mod, unless a firearm states otherwise, the default is cased. If a firearm does use caseless, then EF is improvement on noise suppressing.

File: please read the CRB next time.jpg (16KB, 283x54px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 283x54px

>>44334930
The default is caseless.

And electronic firing's entire, uh... entire deal is to make suppressors work better, really. Which kinda doesn't work when you can't mount a suppressor.

More importantly, ELECTRONIC FIRING DOES NOTHING TO THE MUZZLE OF THE GUN JESUS CHRIST CATALYST

>>44334996
Electronic firing's deal is to provide a fraction of both suppressor's and gas vents' (both are barrel modifications) benefits in one mod.

>>44334996
With EF available as a modification, we have a concrete option to choose for caseless, rather than a meaningless 'use whatever' from the CRB. I'm not going to stop you from completely ignoring any line of reasoning, but surely you have realised that sups replace core rules regularly?

>>44335530
EF's description does limit it to caseless only, but it doesn't say anything about cased ammo becoming normal, and in fact, every time cased or caseless ammo comes up in Jackpointers' discussions, it's them making fun of any use of cased ammo by a professional- because professionals don't use cased ammo in Shadowrun, that's been a thing since... what, 4th edition at least? And caseless ammo suddenly precludes gas vents, silencers, all these fancy things that are ALSO mentioned as necessities (especially silencers), despite being by far the most common?

I don't see any line of reasoning that could possibly indicate that the Shadowrun world managed to step back from caseless ammo to cased ammo near-exclusively, except in aftermarket modifications, and it didn't even rate a full sentence. This would be a HUGE development in the arms industry because every single gun in 5th edition- INCLUDING those introduced in Hard Targets- would be rendered useless, barring the explicitly antique weapons of Gun H(e)aven 3 and most Super Warhawks.

>>44335080
I can see that, I guess, but it's one hell of a pitiful fraction of both.

What's the smallest and cheapest mobile drone (not a turret) with a gun mount, and what's the largest number of drones you can control at once?

You should be able to see where I'm going with this.

What skill do I use to hit with underbarrel grenade launcher?

>>44335892
Chummer would have me believe that it's Heavy Weapons.

>>44335866

You can control a lot of drones if you have more than one RCC.

A micrdrone with a point of sensor reduction can hold a light pistol.

Swarms ahoy. Get's expensive as shit though.

>>44335911
According to core book, it`s for "real" grenade launchers, like M79 or RPG.

>>44335892
>>44335911

If it's part of the gun, like the Ares Alpha or AK98, it uses the same skill as the gun it's part of. If it's an added weapon, it uses it's own skill (here, Heavy Weapons)

>>44335866
Well, let's see. Standard with a drone mount, or without one?

Standard with a drone mount, you're looking at the Ferret (R5.0 132) or the Castle Guard (R5.0 133), both Small drones. They're both groundcraft, for what it's worth. The Ferret is preloaded with a taser, the Castle Guard has more variety and a larger weapon mount. CG has twice the armor and -1 sensor in comparison. No mod points on the CG, one on the Ferret.

Adding weapon mounts onto it, well, you get FAR more options, but I think Small drones remain the smallest you can go without sensor reduction as >>44335933 said.

I believe the maximum per RCC is 18 drones, and the maximum available at character creation is 15. Don't quote me on that, though.

>>44335866
you can slave device rating * 3 drones to a rcc

the noizquito microdrone is in the smallest class. what weapons it can mount depends on whether you use the vehicle mod rules or the drone mod rules

the vehicle mods will let it mount a light weapon in its one slot, which covers up to smgs

with the drone mod rules, it can mount up to a heavy pistol or machine pistol if you downgrade an attribute (not body) to fit a small weapon mount. without the downgrade its limited a light pistols with the mini mount

at 2k and flying and its strobes and speakers, the noizquito is probably the best option. the other microdrones are cheaper, but have 0 body so are limited to only a light pistol with a downgrade using the drone mod rules and cannot mount a weapon with the vehicle mod rules.

>>44335866
The smallest i can find is the Ares Sparrowhawk from Rigger 5.0, its an alt for the Cyberspace designs dragonfly. Its a minidrone so you mini drone racks which each take 1 weapon mod point. This means you can have 16 loaded up in a GMC bulldog

>>44336206
See, this is the one place that I get a little uncomfortable with cheese. Isn't the Noizquito explicitly listed to be the size of a mosquito? I don't think you can mount a machine pistol into that no matter how much you take out...

>>44336484
Yeah I was going to mention that houserulling a limit on the size of the weapon mount equal to the size of the drone; but then some drones dont fit like the Lynx which can fit huge and heavy mounts

>>44335650
>in fact, every time cased or caseless ammo comes up in Jackpointers' discussions, it's them making fun of any use of cased ammo by a professional- because professionals don't use cased ammo in Shadowrun, that's been a thing since... what, 4th edition at least?
Not exaggerated or whitewashed at all, I'm sure. I def haven't read anything with characters being tongue-in-cheek on the topic.

>I don't see any line of reasoning that could possibly indicate that the Shadowrun world managed to step back from caseless ammo to cased ammo near-exclusively
I never claimed such, and attempting to weasel into arguing against that position doesn't do you any favours.

>For simplicity, each kind of gun can trade ammo with another of its class: for example, all heavy pistols can share ammo.
Firearms and ammo presented within the rpg are not the full range of weapons in the setting. They're representative, but not of the whole setting.

>Of course, once you’re off of Aztechnology or Aztlan property, you have to deal with local laws, which is why this bundle is flagged as Forbidden for all you Seattleites who actually care about such things.
They're an abstract of not just Seattle, but Seattle through the pinhole that is the runner community.

Given that RFID tagging is omnipresent in everything corporate, and that runners may not want to allow their ammo the option of communicating with law enforcement, etc, what are their options? First call would be to tag erase it, but that means bricking RFID tags inside bullets.
> Devices that are bricked never fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles, nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are common features of a device in the process of becoming a brick.
Fuck doing that with a block of propellant / gunpowder. That brings runners to black/grey market armourers or hand loading ammo - making runners (again) non-representative of the rest of the world WRT firearms & ammo.

>>44336712
Tag data can also be edited with Edit File action, and one of those actions is Delete. By default, you are the owner of the merchandise you buy, including tags, so you have little problem doing exactly that to a Rating 1 piece of hardware using a commlink.

>>44337062
>By default, you are the owner of the merchandise you buy
I know it, but ... quote?

>>44337163
BTW, where does it say that bullet is RFID-tagged?

>RFID tagged soldiers wielding RFID tagged weapons firing RFID tagged rounds...

Shadowrun is just MGS if the patriots won.

>>44337163
>Owning a device and being its owner aren’t necessarily the same thing, although they usually go together. Ownership, at least in the Matrix, is something that is registered with both the device (or other icons) and the grids, so it’s a bit more involved than just putting a “Property of [blank]” sticker on it. When a commlink is at the store or in a warehouse, the commlink’s owner is its manufacturer (although sometimes stores get ownership of their goods before the buyer does). When you buy that commlink, the store or manufacturer transfers ownership to you.
>Corporations and governments use this registration system to keep track of their equipment. A security guard’s weapon might be in her holster, but its owner is the corp that employs her. This makes it relatively simple to track down thieves, deserters, and looters—at least, the ones who can’t hack what they steal.

So, yeah, you aren't guaranteed to own things you pay for, but without plot reasons (like buying Forbidden items legally) you probably should.

>>44337247
The core book says that everything that can be tagged probably is, so I guess that's the implication here.

>>44337163
>>44337315
It's not like you can't also check the item for marks and switch the ownership (or comission an ownership switch from a decker) to yourself if ownership didn't come with the item.

>>44337315
>The core book says that everything that can be tagged probably is
Kind of like how it says that pretty much everything is also wireless and connected to the Matrix. Everything is tagged, everything can be checked via the Matrix, you're always being watched and tracked.

>>44337274
Japanese videogames didn't invent microelectronics or their applications, and it's hardly a prediction when the idea of "bugs" is older than people who made those games.

And, regardless, Deus Ex is a much better comparison.

>>44336642
The Lynx is a large drone though, it's bigger than a person but is on all fours. For all intent and purpose, it's essentially a tachikoma without the rigger coccoon.

>>44337347
Background for the team's new decker; he's the guy that's been hacking their ammo ownership, bullet by bullet, and now considers himself skilled enough for a real run.

What would you guys say is generally better (obviously it won't be best for everyone, and concept takes precedence); Priority A Attributes or Skills?

>>44337582
Attributes. You frequently don't need Skills A to fill out an archetype.

>>44337582

Depends on if the other ends up at B or elsewhere.

Skills at B is sufficient for most concepts. A Skills is probably best for a mage-type who wants to be pretty broad, maybe a Charisma type who wants to also handle face duties.

>>44337582
If your question is which is better higher skills or higher attributes. I would say attributes, the effect multiple skills, increase limits, have other in game effects and are more expensive to raise later.

>>44337582
>>44337672
>>44337676
>>44337691

Karmacost-wise though, Skill A has by far the biggest bang for your buck. 10 skill group points is amazing.

Just make sure not to waste any of them on rating 1 skills. Buy those with Karma.

Ok, so help me with some math here.

I've got an automatics skill of 6 with a specialization in assault rifles, Agility of 6, a HAR with a smartgun system, a TMP with a smartgun system, each gun has a net recoil comp of 6, and I have no off-hand penalty. What's my dice pool (before and after splitting) if I wanted to fire them both on Full Auto (simple) using the Multiple Attacks rule?

>>44338406
Namely, the points of confusion:
When determining my overall dice pool, do I get the full benefit of a specialization if only one weapon used fits under that specialization? Or do I only get half of/none of the benefit?

If attacking with multiple weapons with smartgun systems (receiving the +2 dice pool wireless bonus for having an essense-paid augmentation), do I get the bonus for each weapon, or only once?

For recoil in multiple weapon attacks, do I calculate recoil mods per gun (ie: 6 shots per gun with 6 recoil comp per gun means no lost dice), or is it done in some other way?

>>44338406
>>44338479
You don't get the bonus of your specialization, and only once the smartlink bonus. Oh, and a -2D for using an assault rifle one-handed.

For recoil, you calculate the total amount of bullets shot so far (here 12, and since it's a simple action it's not cumulative with what came before) and then deduce all RC (free first bullet, STR/3 rounded up and all RC from gear.)

Kay, so is there a reason to use any pistol other than the Ares Predator? Only reason I can think of is the Flichetti Security 600 with extended magazine 2 can hole 60 bullets, which is approximately 50 more than will ever be needed.

>>44338939
Ruger Warhawk for the extra base damage and AP (loaded with APDS, of course) in case of pesky spirit.

>everything that can be tagged with probably is

Honestly, that is a bit too much for me. It just sounds ridiculous, and make any kind of clandestine activity impossible. It's one thing to have the deck stacked against the runners, another is having shadowrunners only exist because the corps allow it, which might be how the setting is, but completely destroys any believability for me.

>>44339089
Officially, everything is tagged with RFID's, but nigh-on-everyone has a lil' black market extra on the side.

The corps themselves play into it, they're not stupid. They're perfectly aware there's money to make amongst the 1/4 a 1/3 of the total population that doesn't have a SIN.