The Emprah

>>44267030
Yes.

>>44267030

No, but graham McNeil is for retconning him so stupidly

>>44267073
explain?

>>44267030

Is the Emperor wearing cat ears in that picture?

>>44267030
really? I thought that this was the ONE book withat McNeil didn't absolutely fuck up with.

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I want to know more about the Empurder during the age of strife

>>44267292
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Uriah_Olathaire what I read

>>44267223
An eagle

>>44267030
Don't be silly, anon, the emperor is clearly a human, not an hat.

>>44267487
>Clearly human
sure, "human".

>>44267507
The most human human of all, too. Ten time a human at least.

>>44267030
Oh so much. We are talking Terry Goodkind levels of Fedora.

>>44267507
Must we purge the Emperor if he is a xeno?

>>44267481

He's wearing an eagle? That doesn't sound hygenic.

>>44267523
How is he a fedora? He came to a priest and showed him first hand that his faith is a lie. The holy figure he saw that changed his entire life and world view was no other than the Emperor himself.

Calling people on their bullshit and delusions, especially when you got evidence to back you up, is worthy work.

>>44267534
No, he came from humans what would make him atleast kin, one could say the emperor is abhuman.

>>44267030
In this picture it looks like Big E has cat ears.

>>44267635
If anything the Emperor proves himself to be a fallen god.

>>44267655
Then he is still not a true human, thus he must be purged.

>>44267030
No, but he donned the fedora to try and kill gods with it.
Didn't work. People just worshiped his glorious Golden fedora.

>>44267655
The Emperor was just a psychic immortal human. A mutant but still a human mutant.

>>44267223

That's why I clicked this thread.

>>44267030
I want a book about the emperor childhood in 10000 b.c Anatolia. I want to see momemperor and dademperor

>>44267678
He also didn't know much about Chaos.

They feed on emotion more than belief.

>>44267761
You don't understand.

Ignorance is the best weaponn against Chaos. Chaos cannot hurt you if you have no knowledge of it..

>>44267761
This always seemed to be the flaw in Mr Perfect Human beings plan. His empire seems to be a large scale attempt to cover up the existence of the Gods, rather than to teach humanity how to resist them.

By using iron-fisted tactics to keep humanity ignorant and weak, he is actually feeding into those emotions and making them more tempting.

>>44267783
That plan works so well.

>>44267758
I want to see how he struggles with his power and comes to terms to knowing that he will live to see everyone he loved grow old and die while he stays in perfect shape.

>>44267783

I think Interax did the opposite. Every member of their civilization knew about Chaos from inside out. The result: Not a single member of Interax ever felt to Chaos.

>>44267827
I came up with an idea it involves early chaos worshipers killing some or all of his people and in that moment the power of the shamsn souls awaken and he uses it to beat the forces of chaos back and the emperor goes on to start on his adventures bringing his own faiths to counteract chaos and guide humanity from the shadows and in the light as prophets messiahs or messengers of divine powers

>>44267961
What if Jesus had his second coming and blew Big Goldie out of the water?

>>44267842
it works well so long as everyone who's coming to their planets knows about it they didn't account for outside factors like the imperium if man who suppressed knowledge of chaos come in then there's a problem

>>44267030
Yes. The Emperor is a meme. It is a hard blow, but you have seen the truth of things.

When I realized the Emperor was a meme, I got so angry I cried, but fortunately my knowledge of memery guided me through it, and I am a stronger person for it.

Clearly you have dedicated your life to the study of memes, and that has given you a keen insight into what is like a meme. Few would be able to recognize a fictional characters similarity to people who make poor fashion choices.

Continue your hard work, anon, and one day the light of what-is-a-meme will shine on all the world.

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>>44268055
Do you need a hug?

>>44268053
He WAS Jesus at one point.

>>44268053
so emps punches himself in the face

>>44268054
They also had high tech without the AdMech.

Given how euphoric the Emperor was he had some big double standards. It was all NO RELIGION! Except you guys.

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>>44267030
Nothing fit his definition of a god.
>>44267073
>>44267088
>>44267292
>>44267523
McNeill seems like a great guy but should only do one shots or the first story of a series.
>>44268122
So he punches his past self?

>>44268122
>>44268113
No.

>>44268113
What?

>>44268140
AdMech was close, he needed help with tech, and sometimes you have to make due with what you got.
>>44268156
One of the guises he had during the nearly 50,000 year long story that is his life. Fluff states he was a messiah, scientist and court wizard numerous occasions on pre Age of Stirfe Earth.

>>44268140
would have been interesting if it was the emperor who showed up with the expedition force to meet the interex
>>44268156
the emperor was a bunch of messiahs and prophets in the past starting a bunch of faiths like Christianity

>>44268233
>>44268192
Then why does he hate them so much?
In his argument with Uriah, all blame rests on him and him alone.

>>44268233
Or he was an AoS warlord with Best Korea levels of propaganda.

Given the fact that he seems to be slightly retarded I'm going to suggest he's telling lies.

>>44268278
He got jaded towards religion after years of people perverting his messages of peace and goodwill.
>>44268288
Fluff says he was a scientist around the year 3000.

>>44268278
part of his hatred of religion was that while it starts of good it becomes corrupted hateful and oppressive after watching it happen for millennium emps was tired of seeing it so he outlawed religion

>>44268327
So he's a fallen god.

psykers are mutants
emperor is a mutant (which didn't exist 10000 bc)

=not all mutants are mutants in terms of they must be killed, after all astropaths and sanctioned psykers are a great tool

>>44268332
So he decided to ban all religion and jump straight to the oppression and corruption whilst bypassing all the good stuff.

Brilliant.

>>44267675
>If anything the Emperor proves himself to be a fallen god.
A badly wounded soldier sees him and thinks he's a god so he must be a god? Great argument.

>>44268338
That could fit.
>>44268376
It's not like if he did say he was God and allowed people worshipping him would have a different outcome.

>>44268393
By classical standards he was.

>>44268393
>he heals him as some sort of deity would
>literally has shown up through history in the role of a deity.

>>44268376
he was doing the best he could with what he had every nation has some corruption and do you really think he would have let that shit slide once the crusade was finished

>>44268405
He would still have the 2nd biggest Legion on his side. Less death and unrest in the early Imperium. Sanctioned churches would have given people an outlet for their faith rather than letting them get seduced by Chaos.

Emperor dun goofed. Hugely and often.

>>44268278
He hates them because people kept fucking it all up.
>be watching some ancient Jews
>try sneaking some basic hygiene and legal principles into their mythologymythology
>stuff kept getting muddled up, people took things out of context and applied rules no longer needed
>decide to appear openly to set things straight
>walk around doing miracles for cred, talking about unity and loving your fellow man, set some errata for the old rules
>things seem to go ok
>barely a couple hundred years later people are starting wars in your name
>completely missing the point
>some of them are still following the old rules and getting killed for it
>some fucks in the middle east are getting it particularly wrong
>alright, one more time with the whole prophet thing
>take a quick couple centuries to go on a trip
>come back
>alright, I think time everybody should have gotten the message this ti-
>ALLAH AKBAR
>fucking what
>alright, we're done with this.

>>44268509
>establishing islam to be peaceful
But anon, Muhammad taught violence and intolerance.

>>44268448
Honestly. Yes.

Assuming he didn't commission Apothecary Bile to design a better human and just do away with the obsolete model.

>>44268509
Radical Islam caused the Horus Heresy.

>>44268543
>Implying Horus wasn't a moderate muslim

>>44268233
He would have probably broken down and hugged them at the fact that at least some humans post AoS still possessed some degree of rational thought.

>>44268536
I never said that. I just implied that full-retard "only my exact splinter is right!" Islam wasn't what he was going for.

Of course the Emperor wouldn't preach 100% peace: he wanted human supremacy, not just survival. He was, however, largely in favor of peace between humans.

>>44268405
Actually he could.

Violence in religion stems from ignoramuses using them as vehicles to spread hate and misery. God wasn't there when Christians did the Crusades and had priests wagging their fingers in the air screaming GOD WILLS IT like it Kingdom of Heaven. But what if god WAS there and he told them "Oi, stop that shit you cunts or I'm Sodom-and-Gommorahing your asses back to the void!".

Religion going corrupt and evil is because the leading allmighty figure ain't there enforcing his beliefs upon his subjects, letting fallible men interpret their own meaning overtime. If that meaning means "TAKBIR!"... whose around to stop him? Certainly not god, that's for sure. Let's find some other shmucks who think this way too.

Emps claiming himself to be a god and enforcing his beliefs would've FIXED everything.

>>44268536
for a short time Mohamed preached peace but then he stopped and I think that's all ill say

>>44268584
But the Koran and its subsequent books all preach violence against fellow man.
What peace would he hope to bring by violently forcing everyone to one dogma?

Hell if that was his plan, he should've seen the Horus Hersey as inevitable and could've avoided it.

>>44268594
>Crusades
Topkek, read history, it was a long time coming after what Europe had been through.

>>44268620
Islam started as just a corruption of Christianity. The Emperor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.

>>44268620
I'm not going to start arguing which brand of invisible man is badwrongfun. I'm saying Religion as a whole can only be corrupted by men only because the leading figure isn't there to stop it.

If Emps enforced it and made himself the leading figure, things would've turned out much better.

>>44268647
But he tried that. It went poorly.

>>44268620
>But the Koran and its subsequent books all preach violence against fellow man.
>What peace would he hope to bring by violently forcing everyone to one dogma?
Let me rephrase: he was in favor of ESTABLISHING peace between humans, if necessary by destroying all dissenting parties. Once it was established, he'd want it to remain in place instead of fracturing into a thousand warring sects based loosely on tribal lines.

Emps had no issue with cracking heads, he just gets pissed when people start cracking heads without his direct say-so.

>>44268647
Can agree with the second part of that.
By the time he decided to truly step in it had been too far gone and he fucked it up way too much.

Also the whole "man needs a ruler" shit is stupid.

>>44268668
It'd be contradictory to his desire to establish religions that go against each other (violently) if he wanted to establish peace.

A rock spoke to me! Truly it is a exceptional stone, a stone to rule all stones for all times and even I, top of the food chain shall worship it.

The Emperor is not a divine creature Lorgar.

>>44268668
>he'd want it to remain in place instead of fracturing into a thousand warring sects based loosely on tribal lines.
But muh sengoku!

>>44268661
No, he brought the messages and things went well... for a time. Because he didn't stick around and let things degrade into his followers chimping out, causing him to come back as a different figure and try something different.

For a guy who thinks so fucking highly of himself and how he sees himself a shepherd for Humanity's Manifest Destiny with a galaxy-spanning Empire, he's thick as pigshit if he didn't realize he'll have to actually BABYSIT humanity. If he established a religion and enforced his own set of rules and used his forces to back them up, people would unite more easily and withstand Chaos a lot more easily. Hell, the Heresy probably wouldn't have happened, since Lorgar and the Word Bearers wouldn't get buttmad he told them to cut that shit out.

Essentially the best of the Interex too, informing your people of Chaos only in the Imperium's case: providing a better alternative. Imagine a god that actually walks among the people, a god you can see and hear. People wouldn't give Chaos the time of fucking day.

if we are to continue the god of gaps argument into the fictional far future, there'll be magic and warp and shit so there will always be superstition and religion even without imperial creed

>>44268744
idk about you but if i was the emperor i couldn't come up with IM THE GOD stuff so easily because i'd know it's bullshit. in earth alone it might have seemed easy to convince everyone of your superior intelligence and opinions but when taking account the many many worlds of the galaxy, that shit just doesn't fly

>Not knowing that the only way to unite humanity is to fight a common enemy
>Not turning into that common enemy and puppet the shit out of us
Dude, even Palpatine did it, till he went full lolrandomevil

>>44268868
what does your post have to do with religion?

>>44267088
>superhuman intellect
>uses arguments for atheism which are slightly less sophisticated than those of an edgy 12 year old

Also, the entire "glorious atheist imperium" storyline was created for the horus heresy series, it was not to my knowledge a part of the 40k back story before then (at least as of 3Rd edition, when I got into it).

I appreciate the irony of the ultra-atheist emperor becoming paralyzed and forced to psychically watch all of humanity worship him as a god, ruthlessly persecute heretics for not worshipping him, and commit human sacrifice in his name, because that's what the edgy atheist character they turned him into deserves, but it's still stupid.

>>44268706
My idea was that he intended to patch them into one adjusted religion instead of splintering them every time, he just botched it because of autism.

I mean, HE knows that he's the same guy as wrote the old book, so why the hell are all these people claiming that the new edition isn't canon? Why aren't they just accepting it like he wants?
Despite his alleged intelligence, the Emperor was terrible at actually understanding people. I think he relied too much on brute-forcing diplomacy with psykic powers. As long as he can run things from the same room, everything goes great. As soon as he has to delegate more than a little bit of decision making it all falls apart, because he can't actually predict what decisions his subordinates are going to make. He just assumes they'll do what he'd do.

>>44268795
But surely if you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and hum really loudly all that goes away. Right?

>>44268883
kek, I'm imagining the emperor reeeing like someone from /r9k/.

>>44268889
So he's literally a moron to not have noticed anything about human nature over tens of thousands of years.

>>44268883
emperor's (and humanity's) atheism has nothing to do with the reality of the warp which corrupted the legions. it wasn't irony when the emperor became a cripple. it was irony when some cultists began to worship him after he "died" when there was no true leader anymore

>>44268836
How doesn't it fly, exactly? You're dealing with regular humans and the Emperor is to a space marine what a space marine is to a 2 year old. If a dude with a natty beard went around curing a few lepers and being overly nice to people gets seen as the son of god, Emps could easily use his millenia of know-how and tech to uplift himself as a god in the eyes of Man.

The rest are xenos species you wouldn't want to fraternize with anyway. They give in to Man's superiority? Good. They don't or they dissent? SCOURGE AND PURGE. They just questioned your god's divinity! Get busy with them AKs.

>>44268935
i don't know what's the point of your post if not irony

>>44268536

>Muhammad taught violence and intolerance

Eh.. Certainly he was anti-pagan - by which he meant polytheist. The monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and "the Sabians" (whose identity is something of a mystery and multiple groups have been given that title) were protected under the Koran despite not being Muslim.

>>44267827
He always seemed like a complete cunt, so I assume he didn't have too many sleepless nights about that.

>>44268964
Are you questioning the Imperial Truth?

>>44268937
>So he's literally a moron to not have noticed anything about human nature over tens of thousands of years.
He's great and predicting people. He's shit at predicting a person.

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>>44267507
>E money
>not human

>>44268999
>I'm going to antagonize this person for centuries
>Oh noes he turned against me! how totally unpredictable!

>>44268972
They were protected only if they would pay tribute; otherwise they'd have to convert or die.
Read up on Spain and the Moors.

>>44269007
Technically speaking, it's pretty hard to call the SPESS MUHREENS human

>>44267758
>not Momperor
One job

>>44268956
there were so, so many human worlds. it would take forever to make them completely rational. emperor didn't do miracles like that because lesser people would view him as god anyways. so if emperor wanted to conquer worlds religiously too (into atheism) it would take a long time to make them forget their superstition and favor science (think two generations worth). those less experienced peoples would think the emperor's science is magic and thus he would become a god instantly regardless

>>44268594

Leaving aside the issue that holding up the crusades as anything other than a perfectly justified act of collective self-defense displays an ignorance of history, basically everything wrong about the emperor's portrayal was done right with Paul in Dune.

Basically the points you make about a leader of humanity as a whole making decisions about religious doctrine, faith, and how to react to or attempt to shape those phenomena in the best interests of mankind, this is what the second and third books of Dune are all about. The difference between McNeil's juvenile emperah and Herbert's Muaddib is that Muaddib realizes that the inherent truth or falsehood of religion in general or a religion in particular is irrelevant to one whose sole concern is the benevolent rule of man. The only relevant concern is its utility toward furthering that end.

>>44268744
How do you know he didn't stick around?

We have cults and evidence of cults anon.

I like how you know better than the coalesced intelligence of shamans over a thousand lifespans that lived for millenia and had psychic powers. Cool dude.

>>44268972
>The monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and "the Sabians" were protected under the Koran despite not being Muslim.
It clearly shows

"if you attempt to eradicate faith and succeed, you become a god" -anonymous

>>44269007
>Psycher, mutant and perpetual
>Human

>>44269110
>perpetual
well he hasn't recovered from his injuries in 10000 years

>>44268946

The irony is that he was kept alive and aware to witness the birth of his own cult, but unable to do anything to prevent or shape it. It's hell without an afterlife

>>44269110
He is a collective intelligence of psychic shamans. Do you guys even know the story, or has the retard production facilities of the black library pumped out a shit replacement story?

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>>44269037
>>44269110
All this heresy

>>44269037
>implying everyone else didn't do it too.

>>44268868
wouldn't chaos work as this

>>44269120
He has to die first to recover, but shitty Imperium doesn't let him.

>>44269253
how is the new fluff for vulkan? does he have to die before recovering?

>>44268982
40000 years will make you jade man.

>>44269273
He LIVES

>>44267030
the emperor is not a hat

>>44269336
yeah but if you die, do you really die? where's the limit after which you regenerate? getting too philosophical here

>>44269056
He doesn't need to make people obey science itself, just his abilities and divinity backed up by science. He'd have answers for many superstitions and weasel their explanations to tie to his power, making it seem he was involved in some way. It's like showing a medieval man a laser pointer, that's all he needs to truly believe you have Will-o'-the-Wisp summoning powers.

>>44269072
Well, it says he didn't stick around and history is assuming he didn't. The ancient history of Terra is our own and I don't see Jesus hanging out.

And besides, almost everything that went wrong with the setting is 90% the Emperor's fault (the other 10% is the Eldar) so I doubt me coming up with a different plan would make things plenty worse~

>>44269363
Do people die if they are killed?

>>44269385
if you read that link ITT about uriah, they wouldn't accept scientific approach anyways, even if it was 100% rational.

and if he lied that he was involved in their superstitions he would instantly become the god.

the problems stands

>>44269043
Momperor wouldn't care. She would certainly be a loving neolythic woman preparing the meat her husband and her unusually tall son hunted in the morning.

>>44269423
But becoming the god is the POINT. The Emps failed because he refused to use Religion as a TOOL to further his goals, being blinded by his own arrogance and beliefs.

Uriah's faith and arguments were fucking KO'D the moment Emps showed his true self.

>>44268494
It's kind of weird how fucking retarded the Emperor behaves for someone who's supposed to be a genius.

>>44269479
becoming the god is wrong from emperor's approach. if that is inevitable, it means humanity is flawed aka beyond anyone's reach

sadface.jpg

>>44269479
his belief was that in the end its what held people back and caused them harm which is why he got rid of it

>>44269385
I said cult. Read what I typed please. I wasn't referring to Jesus as a cult leader.

Maybe he did stick around as a cult leader, and personal problems within the cult led it to dissolution and failure.

And all of our history is not equivalent to Terra's ancient history. We are in the 3rd Millennium. The time period for the horus heresy is the 31st. That is a lot of time for all sorts of experiments with how to create a religion.

But, I doubt that I'll get you to see my point of view on this, and I won't see yours. 40k lore discussions just task my patience.

>>44269490
that's somewhat big meme here. even if your IQ was 9001 it couldn't probably control the lives and decisions of thrillions billions

>>44269021
>I'm going to force this guy to watch helplessly while all his friends are slaughtered
>Why does he hate me?

>>44269479
The interesting idea is that Uriah didn't see the emperor as his god.

>>44269549
He fails even at a micro level. Just managing the primarchs in such a way that none of them develop a grudge against him for easily avoidable reasons seems like a good first step towards not being a retard.

>>44269634
even if emperor explained all of his questions, the emperor probably wasn't / might not have been the voice of god in uriah's head

i'm not an expert at religious people's beliefs but that might be one way to deny the emperor

>>44269609
>my son is surrounded by crazed butchers that may fall to the worship of Khorne
>they are beyond saving, but perhaps my son, being of sterner stuff than they, may be able to do good for mankind while he lives
>this is a sad and difficult choice, but I make it to save my people

>>44269655
i don't know if the primarchs are a good counter example because they're special but yeah i agree that the emperor could have done many things better on their end. and i wouldn't want to say that hurr durr the primarchs only acted so because the horus heresy had to happen because plot

>>44269516
>>44269511
And that's exactly what he got wrong but he was on a whole other level of aloofness to even entertain the notion of listening.

>>44269518
>I said cult. Read what I typed please. I wasn't referring to Jesus as a cult leader.
You didn't but I used him anyway.

>Maybe he did stick around as a cult leader, and personal problems within the cult led it to dissolution and failure.
>And all of our history is not equivalent to Terra's ancient history. We are in the 3rd Millennium. The time period for the horus heresy is the 31st. That is a lot of time for all sorts of experiments with how to create a religion.
You're right, but we have no lore to back up most things past "our time" and it doesn't change the fact up till the 3rd Millenium, it's our own history. The setting just assumed "shit happens from the year 3000 to the War of Unification", it's all one big waiver.

>40k lore discussions just task my patience.
No offense but what are you even doing here then? You're on /tg/ and on a 40k lore thread with active discussion. Not trying to make you buy what you think I'm selling but don't get all pissy when someone doesn't agree with you if you can't bloody argue.

>>44267783
>Chaos cannot hurt you if you have no knowledge of it..

You don't honestly believe this, do you?

>>44269688
khorne didn't exist to any of the relevant people

the emperor could have beamed them up to the spaceship

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>>44267030
well, he's made by the dude that gifted this short story to Richard Dawkins, fedora supreme himsel, while wearing a meme shirt(really don't understand what's the moral of the story in that case. Root for the bloody warlord that literally acts like ISIS in Palmyra, and doesn't believe the science and reason bullshit himself?)
Emperor turning into an r/atheism moderator is the most idiotic character development i've seen, besides the whole "bargaining his powers with the dark gods".
You've turned him into a literal moron that has learned nothing from his experience of guiding humanity for the past aeons.
Of course, they could not have done that, and let him be some shadowy figure that has intervened throughout history from the shadows, with great ideas and some half-truths, but noooo, we had to ham-fist this stuff for someone's ideology.

>>44269688
>Surely this won't seriously negatively affect my relationship with him. I'll just let him go about his business with minimal oversight.

>>44269672
>>44269634
I'd say that's because the Emperor just kindof appeared to him once and left the guy alone for 40 years to stew. All the rationalizations people make over traumatic events are extraordinary, Uriah built endless castles in his head over the years, like others before him. Suddenly Emps shows up and shatters your 40 year old beliefs and psyche to boot over a glass of wine and you're supposed to deal with that? The human brain just starts screaming "DENY! DENY!" DENY!"

>>44269733
yo this is the post modern time: the author's own life doesn't affect the interpretation of the story; they are independent

>>44269066

Emperor's goal was never benevolent rule, he was a violent brute which Uriah sees in the story.

>>44269748
i can't say i know the full story but uriah had known that the emperor existed his whole life, no? so his materialization in front of him should not have changed anything because uriah knew the emperor existed as he is nevertheless

>>44269733
So the guy who wrote the story line turned Mr Golden Shorts into his retarded Mary Sue?

>>44269697
Sorry. I didn't mean to make you pissed off, I was just explaining my views, although no one asked. My mistake. I'll keep it to myself. Sorry again. I like 40k lore, but it seems like people don't want to discuss it, they just want to plop down their own version of it and say how much better it is. As for my inability to argue properly, I'm very sorry I'm not up to your exacting standards. Protip: saying no offense does not take the offense out of your statements, but I think you know that.

Once again, our history has millions of examples of a religious leader sticking around and declaring themselves gods. Why is it so difficult to believe that some were the Emperor?

You are stuck on Jesus. Forget Jesus for just a minute. What about the tens of thousands of prophets, godheads, and gurus throughout our history?

>>44269771
benevolent is one extreme, a violent brute is the other. the emperor wasn't either

>>44269821
good post

>>44269777
Nice trips, friend. Well, Uriah knew the Emperor existed but he might not have known what he looked like. All he got was a flash of a golden face (not that one) and a voice telling him to stop denying him and that he'll lead you to greatness. In his addled state (getting royally fucked up by Thunder Warriors), he thought it was the face of god and his voice, someone that was divine, someone who was above the Emperor.

When the Emperor revealed himself as that face and voice, Uriah pretty much broke down with cognitive dissonance and denial and refused to see the guy before him who had been such an arrogant tit during their meeting as his god and preferred to die.

Now, if the Emperor were to have established himself as divine to begin with, there wouldn't be that mental and spiritual clash.

>>44268288
Age of Strife warlords don't suffer ten-thousand years of suffering for the good of every human in the galaxy, anon

>>44269810
I think. I'm not sure, desu, but a massive part of E's characterization as euphoric and enlightened by his own intelligence comes from the Last Church.
Don't know of him being known like that from prior fluff.
Might be wrong, though.

>>44269873
So that one author is responsible of some of the biggest faggotry of 40k.

>>44269861
OH i see... so after all, the emperor taking it easy was bad even if it was just for like that for uriah. so it's not like uriah was limited in any way because he was shown the "truth"

>>44269904
Yes.

>>44269821
It's not difficult at all, but he didn't enforce it. You kindof need to have military superiority because might tends to make right and winners write history. Combine faith with an overwhelming force to back it up and you have a proper version of the Imperial Truth (or to a lesser extent, American Foreign Policy. HYUK HYUK HYUK)

>>44269864

It's not like he has a choice. Assuming he would let himself die, the time spent on that throne would seem just wonderful to him real soon.

Surely everyone realizes that the only end 40k can get is the same Fantasy got?

>>44269864
fuck off tripfaggot

>>44269928
Ok.

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>mfw notsoeasy-e is a turkroach
no wonder hes bad at everything

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>>44267073
>>44268883

>>44269928
Forgot to add:

Afterall, what kind of "divine being" loses a war? It's like Xerxes in the 300 movie. Worshipped as a God-King but Leonidas makes him bleed, showing he's not as divine as he says he is. That kind of image is important as hell.

>>44269962
Jesus bled on the cross. Ritual bleeding was important for many gods.

>>44269955
>anime reaction image posters starting shit

anyways, i think 40k is a great setting because it encourages lots of discussion like this that wouldn't be possible in many other games and i thank you all for this

>>44269958
>The Emperor's mission was to save Humanity, not enslave it!

kek

>>44269904
I found that crap completely unnecessary.
Look, we have an entire alien empire that's about science and rapidly advancing tech. You could insert your "scientific atheism, bitches" over there.

>>44269917
I'm sorry, I can't understand what you mean.

>>44269999
It encourages discussion because it's vague and illogical, not because it's deep.

>>44269958

That provides an idealized vision. In the later books, it's revealed that Emperor went to the most perfect human world Lorgar had converted and had Roboute kill its entire population to show Lorgar to not worship him.

>>44270012
i mean that the emperor was humble even though his power was very, very great and meanwhile uriah's faith was very, very great, even though the emperor showed him the truth. in the end uriah was rewarded

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>>44270006
Freedom ain't free.

>>44270024
It just keeps getting more and more grimderp.

>>44270020
Truth, the entire universe makes 0 sense at all.
>>44270006
>I put my faith in science and logic as should you!

>>44269987
Different messages, I think. Jesus never proclaimed himself to be an invincible god, merely a mortal messenger who happened to be the son of god.

By ritual bleeding you mean things like sacrifices and the like? Those were in worship and because they had a domain involving blood rituals. I'm just saying if there was a guy saying he was a divine being, all should worship his might, that he was pure, invincible, infallible and then someone clocks him in the jaw and knocks out a few teeth, would you take his claims seriously?

If you claim you have power but never show or back it up, nobody will take you seriously. It's like North Korea's posturing.

>>44270055

Maybe he was a nicer guy before he went to Moloch with that perpetual slut and entered a chaos gate to make shady deals.

>>44270055
don't include grimderp in this thread. it means nothing and we've had a good discussion so far.

>>44270061
simplifying many fa/tg/uy's opinion into 0 sense doesn't win any argument. deepness belongs to actual literature or theology. warhammer is just 20 years old setting

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>>44270084
>Jesus never proclaimed himself to be an invincible god, merely a mortal messenger who happened to be the son of god.

>>44270048
The Emperor was anything but humble, he was so arrogant he literally made the guy sudoku in a fire over it. But you are right in that Uriah's faith was very great and the same about the Emperor's power. Emps just didn't police his own work tightly enough.

He showed Uriah the truth and this caused him great anguish, but the Emperor's attitude is what sealed the deal.

>>44270084
Aries bled in the Iliad. Gods bleed. Doesn't make them less than divine.

Can a man even make the Emperor bleed? Not all cult leaders died you know. Sometimes people left for a different god or because they grew tired of doing certain things. Not because their God was less divine than another.

Not all gods are gods of war and battle. Some gods never claim such power. Ancient history is filled with all sorts of neat religions. If you ever have some free time, grab some books on them, it makes for fun reading.

>>44270157
yeah. of course the emperor wouldn't want to appear as the subordinate of some priest

>>44270112
I call grimderp when I see it. It doesn't limit any discussion or my own involvement in it both before and after my mention of grimderp. Good luck with the thought policing though.

>>44270204
memes alone don't add anything to the discussion unless it's a meme thread. you're right that it doesn't limit anything but please think before you post

>>44270156
I say it again: Jesus never proclaimed he was an invincible god, merely a mortal messenger who happened to be the son of god.

Holy Trinity assumes many mental exercises but there are instances that god and jesus are separate as much as they are two sides of the same coin, same as the holy spirit. You HAVE to make these allowances cause then you'll get messed up stuff like god knocking his own mother up to give birth to himself then he abandons himselfs for a few decades.

>>44269948
He's right though.
>>44270006
It's the truth though.

>>44270223
you're FUCKING reasonable

>>44270218
I did. Please don't be pompous before you post, sir or madam.

>>44270257
you're the one who's pompous if you try to decredit all the discussion above. you still don't add anything to the discussion

>>44270169
>Aries bled in the Iliad. Gods bleed. Doesn't make them less than divine.
You're completely right, but then you open another can of worms when you bring in polytheistic religions into the mix, one I wasn't taking into account. Monotheistic religions assume there's just 1 deity that's perfect in everything forever.

>Can a man even make the Emperor bleed?
Don't think there's any reports of that and I struggle to call Horus a mere "man". Orks can, though! Fair enough on the rest of that sentence, I can't argue with that but if your god was a jealous god with a great powerbase, apostasy would be punishable by death, like how many muslims see it.

I agree with you on the religion studies though, it's really interesting! Even with two lifetimes you can't hope to learn enough.

>>44270188
Maybe he would've had better results, but just like the Horus Heresy, it's less about the Emperor's beliefs and more because he was just a cunt.

>>44268143
I remember that post.

It was the day that I stopped liking him. Like, i thought he was being ironic with 'The Last Church" considering how juvenile and silly Emps was in his thinking during that story.
Then I saw this.
Then I wept.

>>44270302
When did I do such a thing?

I referred to the killing of an entire population of a planet as grimderp. Nothing more or nothing less.

I've been discussing in this thread for some time now, and if you think I've added nothing to the discussion I'll leave. Good luck with your discussion where we have to watch what we say so we don't trigger you.

>>44270235
Thanks a fucking lot you piece of sexy manmuscle

>>44270343
Maybe McNeill's doing some long term trolling. It's all I can think of to preserve any respect I have left for him.

>>44267030

Jesus, I wish people would stop bringing up that story. To be blunt, it's shittily written. ADB and Dan Abnett have much, much better takes on the Emperor. For instance, the Emperor is actually rather kind in Dan Abnett's stories, but he's also bloodthirsty as fuck. For instance, he's perfectly happy to let Ollanus Pius live out as many lives as he wants...But what John sees in him scares John shitless.

When written by ADB, he's a lot more aloof and distant. But when written by McNeil, he's a fucking idiot.

>>44270435

Since Horus Heresy is a well coordinated project with the GW's head of IP presiding over it I'm not really concerned with the quality of writing but rather what the Emperor is doing, because that is "the" GW vision. Kirby and Merrett have been there since 40k started, so lets see them spill the beans rather than speculate about hoarded fluff.

>>44270480
>inb4 BIG E turns out to be a short fat kid inside a mechanical man

>>44270480

I wouldn't say 'well-coordinated', a lot of it makes no sense or is irrelevant. Perturabo, again, is autistic robot man in The Crimson Fist. He basically acts like Darth Vader, and has a heavy metal throne made of ship parts. He doesn't talk much, either, and kills people at the drop of a hat.

In Angel Exterminatus, we find he's a sensitive soul and so on. Then there's that shitshow with Fulgrim - "Oh, I am stuck in a picture forever." "Wait, I'm no longer stuck in a picture, but I'm fucking evil anyway."

>>44268708
Kek

>>44270535
Well coordinated by GW standards.

It's probably Merrett saying "okay write about fists, pert is the enemy" and then to the guy writing about Iron Warriors "okies, he just wanted to be an architect, give him a sympathetic backstory".

With that Fulgrim thing there's no contradictions though the plot might be called idiotic.

>>44270662

Well, how about the Lion? The Heresy initially implies that the Lion is a backstabbing piece of shit, BUT he knows a lot about the Chaos plot. ADB later establishes that naw, the Lion is a cool guy. He's completely loyal, and he doesn't care if people make up rumors about him after the Heresy.

Then Dan Abnett establishes that the Lion is a great guy. Sure, he's distant and likes to keep secrets, but he's a genuine hero - In fact, he's as heroic as Guilleman. (Who, by the way, is very different in ADB's stories and Abnett's stories. He's the coldest of the Primarchs in the first one, and the most humane in the second.)

>>44270721
Or Horus, who suddenly becomes very short-tempered when Dan Abnett stops writing him.

>>44268883
The Emperor himself wasn't an atheist, he was aware of Chaos like many others. His plan though was to make the rest of humanity not believe in any deities and so starve out Chaos through sheer ignorance of their existence. Turns out that while it would decrease the sustenance Chaos is getting from humanity, it wouldn't stop it completely.

>>44271644
Which is a really dumb plan. A genius might be expected to come up with a better one.