Chronicles of Darkness/World of Darkness General /WoDG/ /CofDG/

>>44248747
I usually just grab images off DeviantArt.
There's some pretty good art on there, if you're willing to sift through all the bad.

Oh cool, they went with my Dread Powers stuff from Forsaken as the basis of the CofD core book Dread Powers.

>>44249298
Do you mean some of them transferred over, or that they default to not using dots?

>>44249630
Both.

>>44249153

Alright I posted this in the last thread and only got a couple of responses, but I'd like more:

OK SO

Changeling has done a motley pledge that includes the following tasks and sanctions, lasting a year and a day:
1) greater alliance with the rest of the motley, must protect them
2) greater endeavor to protect the region from any supernatural threats to the best of their ability
3) greater forbiddance to not commit any felony under NC law
4) the Sanction is a greater curse and also the one-eyed flaw, literally one of their eyes will fall out of their head

He's trying to forge an alliance with a blood bather.
The blood bather kills 12 people twice a year, and it's gruesome.

How can they coexist?

If the changeling does not stop the murders, isn't he complicit in the act and thus culpable for the crime? Or does that make him an Accessory After the Fact and thus only culpable for a misdemeanor? Or is he a conspirator because they agree the crime will be committed, even if he isn't assisting, by failing to report the crime he's complicit, right?
Help me figure this out, /tg/

>>44249298
Hey Chris, is there a Werewolf Gift that lets you maintain a full Defense no matter how many times you're attacked in a turn?

>>44251191
Ok, wait, am I understanding this correctly:
>Changeling is in a Motley with the given Pledge
>He/she wants to befriend the blood bather

This sounds not easy without breaking the Pledge. As I see it, the Changeling has the following options:
>Secretly sabotaging the blood bather
>Convincing your new ally to seek out his victims in another region
>Convincing the Motley to alter the conditions of the Pledge next year
>Seek out someone shady that can release you from the Pledge without the others knowing
>Get better allies. Seriously, there has to be some other option than a guy mass murdering people

>>44251410

Yeah it's complicated

The blood bather is a supernatural threat, and being complicit in his actions is at best a misdemeanor, but not trying to stop him is a violation of the pledge.

There are other options; but the blood bather is their best ally against the vampire court they're trying to get rid of, potentially.

>>44251619
>>Secretly sabotaging the blood bather
>>Convincing your new ally to seek out his victims in another region
>>Convincing the Motley to alter the conditions of the Pledge next year
>>Seek out someone shady that can release you from the Pledge without the others knowing
So what about these options?

>>44251191
The Changeling asks to Blood Bather to give him the power to represent him legally, he is now covered under attorney-client privilege and doesn't have to reveal his activities.

>>44251711

>sabotaging the blood bather
Will likely get them killed, and if it doesn't, it jsut eliminates a potentially useful ally

>convincing him to get bodies elsewhere
Not impossible. The blood bather would rather leave the region than risk dying or losing assets; if it becomes too inconvenient to stay he'll dip. But my players want to avoid it if they can, because he's useful.

>convince the motley to change the pledge
For sure, but that's a year away, and they need him now

>seek someone to release you from the pledge
They all agreed on the pledge, and can get out of it if they all agree to
But if they drop this motley pledge, to enter a new motley pledge will cost increasingly more glamour and higher wyrd rank, beyond what anyone in the party will be able to manage if they drop this one

Wasn't there this one guy who thought stitching a Beasts Horror into your soul would be a good idea if you were a Mage? Wasn't he planning to make a Legacy for it?

>>44251744

Wouldn't work. Not revealing his crimes isn't enough, the changeling has to stop the crime from happening and/or stop the predation of the people in his area. Anyone in the motley has to.

>>44251191
Why are you forging an alliance with such a blatant and obvious liability in the first place?

>>44251954
>The blood bather would rather leave the region than risk dying or losing assets
So what about the changeling going
>Hey man, we're cool, but I'd really, really like it if you could kill people over there instead of here. I'll even give you a ride.

>to enter a new motley pledge will cost increasingly more glamour and higher wyrd rank
It does? Damn, I really have to brush up my changeling rules, I could've sworn this wasn't the case. I also thought about some service/trinket/whatever from a Goblin Market that lets the changeling turn a blind eye without risking breaking the Pledge.

>>44252002

I'm not, my players are.
He's a liability insofar as he kills people, for sure
He's an asset insofar as he's immortal, regenerates faster than a werewolf, and is twice as strong, extremely wealthy, and he's got a vault full of magical artifacts.

He was never intended to be a super important part of the campaign - a good place for the occasional story arc, good guy to complicate things. But once they signed that pledge, they immediately put themselves at odds with him even though they have intentions to work with him.

So anyone else hopping we might get an anti-Changeling conspiracy/compact? I'd rather that than just having C&C thoughts on Changeling.

>>44252045

>I really have to brush up my changeling rules, I could've sworn this wasn't the case.

It's a houserule so that my group doesn't sign pledges, then back out when they need to do something that'd violate them, then sign back on. Because if I don't have this rule here, they get all the benefits whenever they want but never risk the sanction, ya feel?

>>44252153
You normally can't back out of a pledge. What the fuck have you done to your game?

More to the point, what the FUCK is wrong with your players? Punish their deep-seated cognitive defects by having the blood-bather form an unhealthy attachment to the 'ling and use his family (YOUR PLAYERS AREN'T MURDERHOBOS RIGHT ANON) for his next ritual. Don't give them any special warning to avoid this fate if they don't think to see it coming, just kill the family, make it unpleasant and frustrating. Signing on with a fucking serial killer shouldn't be a feather in their cap. Skull-fucking evil is garbage-tier narrative and has no place on the PC side of the table in fucking CHANGELING.

Regardless of WHAT you do, a sharp drop in Clarity should see the initiating PC having difficulty playing and enjoying their character without setting their XP on fire, and other PCs experiencing at least some general awareness penalties, which you should leverage into brutal Hunter ambushes because they're snugglebunnies with a literal serial killer.

>>44252623
And before anyone says that kind of thing is unfair, the player is actively betraying the theme and mood of Changeling and presumably any tier of realism in their character (Changelings go insane real fast for fucking around with inhuman atrocities) for what's basically a power-grab, they want an extra combat wombat, god knows blood-bathers are shit for any social, political, or intellectual purpose. There's nothing wrong with picking up a deadly Retainer or making friends with something powerful, but if you're willing to slit so many metathroats on the altar of more killing power, it should cost you just the same as if you decided to buy up Stone 5 or a couple of Styles, and you should face consequence for what you're apparently willing to face consequence for.

Changelings are uniquely ill-suited for getting into bed with real evil. Anything that steps into Gentry territory - and blood-bathers are deep in there - is a kind of degeneration they're not built to withstand. Losing Clarity, sanity, and their character's personal efficacy for a superpowered evil beatstick is a fair trade, the player in question just probably doesn't want to actually TRADE so much as ACQUIRE. Which, fuck that.

Make them pay until they either accept the full cost or cancel future payments. No refunds for being a fucktard. You can just Hedgespin a goddamn poison shotgun and Retainer a guy to aim it for you if you really want to not lose fights, holy shit.

So why is Forces so terribly done in Awakening? Why do I need Forces 2 to mess with Fire, but Forces 5 to stop the effect of gravity?

Hell I could bullshit a person into fly via electromagnetism using just Forces 3. Is there a reason why Forces just doesn't make sense according to what you can and can't compared to what the Arcana rules say?

>>44253004
>Why do I need Forces 2 to mess with Fire, but Forces 5 to stop the effect of gravity?
You don't anymore, in 2e.

In 1e, it was for "balance" reasons.

>>44253019
>You don't anymore, in 2e.
Got a write up of Forces in 2e?

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>>44253029
No, but you can Google "mage 2e" and related terms until you find the Onyx Path open development blog and scroll the articles manually until you find it yourself. In the time it took you to respond you could have done it. In the time it took me to write this I could have done it five times over and posted the link, but fuck you.

>>44253029
http://theonyxpath.com/drawn-to-the-flame/
>Forces is the Arcanum most altered by our design decision to remove “speedbumps” from the system – in first edition, some practices require higher dots than they should depending on which Force is being affected. We toyed with requiring extra Reach instead for a few days, but after some consideration decided to throw caution to the wind and peg all spells to the dot level of their Practice. That means that you can do things like Shield against gravity with two dots, to protect yourself from falling damage, when you couldn’t before.

And from the comments on the Creative Thaumaturgy blog:
>Does Shielding just prevent damage/conditions or could I say, use Forces to Shield someone against gravity and let them float around?
And then Dave's own response:
>Yes, you could. Or Fray the Gravity.

Also from those comments (not Forces-related, but interesting):
>Also, Unmaking an Arcanum on someone isn’t *always* instantly fatal – Life obviously is, and Forces can be depending on what exactly you do to them – but there are other, funkier, applications. One of the sample Death 5 spells is an Unmaking spell that resurrects the subject (sadly minus their soul!)

>>44253145
Thank god. Forces is more like it is in Ascension. Makes it amazingly useful and not an XP dump.

>>44251979
Yeah, I'm still working on it. The abilities are where I'm a little stumped. I'm planning on tying it in in an upcoming Mage campaign I'm running. I mentioned it a few threads ago, where the Consillium keeps Beasts under watch and supervision, providing them with "food". This legacy will upset the balance.

>>44252623

So a few things

>you can't back out
I definitely recall several players providing me with evidence that you could back out of pledges, and I trusted that, but I'm checking this again because you may be correct

>punish them
My players aren't murderhobos no, but they're trying to take advantage of a potential ally. He's a bad guy, for sure, but this is an intensely political game and he could be a big bargaining chip so their intentions aren't as ridiculous as you'd think.

There will likely be a drop in clarity no matter what they do once they've failed to stop one such ritual murder

>god knows blood bathers are shit for social/political purposes
kek
He was a Roman consul, one of his biggest benefits is that he knows a shit ton about the supernatural, so this is more than just getting a beatstick

>he doesn't want to TRADE so much as ACQUIRE

You're probably right, but the character in question is intensely political and manipulative
I'm just trying to see if they could even successfully orchestrate any sort of agreement without losing their eyeballs, what happens after that is a totally different conversation.

>>44253544
>backing out
no he's right you can't just cancel a pledge, you're bound for the full duration, and letting them cancel at all even if they can't renew is still a huge benefit. half the game is people getting fucked by stupid pledges, pc or npc

>bad guy
i mean i can kind of see how powerful = useful but he's a serial killer. changelings are normally pretty human including basic morality, and also he's a huge security risk to the community. at the least winter should want him dead ASAP if he actuall knows changelings are real. maybe also the changelings who told him.

in general bargaining with mass murderers isnt something you should see happening outside of maybe mummy or werewolf. even vampires have a masquerade but lings are secrecy on steroids.

>could they successfully orchestrate an agreement
no. allowing him to kill even one person when they have the power to stop him instantly violates their greater endeavor. ALLOWING, not aiding. now that they know he exists, they are already Wyrd-bound to make sure he does not ever kill anyone else in the region. getting him out of the region instantly violates their greater forbiddance because now that they know he's a mass-murderer they are legally obligated to report him to the police.

they have no other option now. that's why you shouldn't fuck with a bunch of "greater..." anythings unless you're seriously committed and prepared to make sacrifices. it is impossible for them to have positive interactions with him and if they already have they've broken their oath already. must report him, must stop him, risk to themselves (including if winter decides to gank them for exposure) irrelevant.

there is no scenario where they do anything but go immediately to the police and then protect those police and civilians during the arrest that does not violate their oath.

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>>44253780
also if they have reason to believe he is still a threat in prison (you mentioned superstrength) they're obligated to permanently end his threat, or at least his supernatural abilities, without committing a felony.

"that sounds really difficult and like it would come up every time a supernatural kills someone since A) they have to take it to the police and B) they have to end the supernatural threat in a way that's not illegal by mortal law and C) those things in conjunction usually require some kind of crazy-powerful magic since even using hedge-travel to break into prison and take him to a magic prison in the hedge, or doing anything that's aggravated assault, is already a felony."

yes

in fact it's almost impossible, how could you stop a werewolf without committing any felonies? kidnapping is a felony (AND A MASSIVE CLARITY BREAK), aggravated assault is a felony, wtf are they going to do, voluntarily get him to drink a werewolf cure that they, what, sucked off an Incarnae to get? good luck, and remember "the region" is broad as fuck, supernatural threat polluting the earth? Wound is open? war between vampire factions? if they know, they have to stop it. ignorance is their only hope. never learn anything about politics. Summer Court wants to kill privateers? do the privateers live in the region? GUESS WHO MUST BE PROTECTED AND STOPPED AND NOT KIDNAPPED ALL AT ONCE.

after they lose their eyes they'll hopefully learn to make not retarded pledges, like don't get CONVICTED for a felony, and don't fucking throw greater tasks around like they're toys.

>>44253780

So I need to call my players out on being able to back out, which they haven't done yet, and now they won't get to do.

And yeah pretty much they have no way around conflict with him as per the pledge. They've had other more pressing matters to deal with, however, so they haven't broken the pledge by not focusing on him. But it's only a matter of time until there's nothing left to do but gank him.

>>44253989

The party are police officers, I should've been clear about that; it isn't a 'felony' for them to enforce the law. So long as they do it properly, which might include killing someone.

They don't know this, but if he misses the ritual once he dies on the spot, and it's a strict schedule - down to the hour.

>>44253145

Finally, I can play Evel Kinevel the Mage.

>>44249153
So, it's been a while since I paid attention. I head CCP sold the World of Darkness assets they still had and the White Wolf name to another publisher. Is that true?

What's new in Chronicles?

>>44254041
I don't know how they're going to enforce the law and simultaneously protect the region, though. If this guy is a reasonable threat behind bars - which, I expect he'll try to kill inmates or bust out or something - they have to provoke him into giving them justification to kill him, which is still a Clarity hit, and license to kill in self-defense is not exactly a tool for easy murder when you also need to do paperwork and an emergent pattern is going to make you a massive beacon both to your department and to the Winter Court, who will give zero fucks about MAKING you break your pledge, including arranging for it to happen in a way you can't avoid, just so they can also get you kicked off the force and out of the public eye.

Seriously, that greater endeavor and greater forbiddance are stupid as fuck in combination. Don't let them try to sweet-talk you into that not being a guaranteed failure condition sooner or later, because it is. I'd also look up felony laws about cops covering up and lying to other cops - remember, IA doesn't have to find them guilty in an investigation, they just have to commit it at all. I suspect that there's probably a felony waiting to happen in not sharing privileged supernatural knowledge with the department.

Doesn't matter if the department will have them committed to an asylum, the Winter Court will kill them, and it risks Clarity. A year-long Greater Curse is character-ending. They're seriously fucked, anon. I honestly can't see how cops are gonna manage a full year of stopping supernatural threats and not committing any felonies in the first place, let alone doing it without Hunters and Winter and the police force fucking them over.

>>44254225
Yes, it's true. Paradox Entertainment now owns most of the WoD. They're taking over World of Darkness 4th Edition, formerly Classic World of Darkness 4th Edition, and seem content to let Onyx Path continue Chronicles of Darkness, formerly New World of Darkness 2nd Edition, as well as Scion and Exalted.

They're a videogame company known for decent RPGs so they'll probably do a World of Darkness game eventually, but they're not fucking the Onyx Path, which is good.

>What's new?

More Merits, an investigation system (with lots of Merit support) based on collecting clues that works really well and you'll use constantly, a chase system (with lots of Merit support, Parkour is god-tier for chases now) that's pretty good but honestly you're not gonna use it a ton, crafting rules for objects, organizations, and plans (yes, plans) that you'll use on occasion and might be trouble with modding weapons but is otherwise fine (yes, even plans). A Dread Powers-esque monster creation system that is fucking great.

The fiction is up and down. Some is good, but the opening fiction notably is nowhere near the brilliance the original blue book had. They also cut the little mini-stories from skill descriptions which holy shit there should be a petition to bring those back, they weren't the best but they were SUPER evocative of how the game feels and plays and to me as a first-time roleplayer were 90% of how I came to understand what roleplaying is in practice.

Worth the purchase 100%, much better than just an upgrade. Completely typo-ridden but that's because it's in prerelease and has presumably almost no editing.

>>44254261
>I don't know how they're going to enforce the law and simultaneously protect the region, though. If this guy is a reasonable threat behind bars - which, I expect he'll try to kill inmates or bust out or something - they have to provoke him into giving them justification to kill him, which is still a Clarity hit, and license to kill in self-defense is not exactly a tool for easy murder when you also need to do paperwork and an emergent pattern is going to make you a massive beacon both to your department and to the Winter Court, who will give zero fucks about MAKING you break your pledge, including arranging for it to happen in a way you can't avoid, just so they can also get you kicked off the force and out of the public eye.
Tip off VASCU. Dealing with supernatural serial killers is their job description.

So, I asked this in the last thread but I wanted more than one answer. Do you lot think that demonic pacts(2E) can cover the granting of supernatural powers of any sort? Or is that outside what a demon is able to do

>>44254393
Paradox doesn't "let" OPP do anything regarding Scion - OPP owns that IP outright.

>>44254393
Thanks for the rundown. Hopefully there's room for all.

>>44251191
>>44251619
>>44251954
This is stupid and he should be hit with the Sanction. Your player wants to either be a bad guy or associate with one without trying to keep them from being a bad guy. He should deal with the consequences. I hate the whole "let's weasel out of a Pledge" thing. In what world is trying to fuck over a literal force of Fate a good idea in the first place? I mean, look at Dresden Files. You think Mab likes it when Dresden manages to weedle out of something? She fucking hates that shit, she just can't kill him outright because politeness and she needs him. Even if you ignore trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the Wyrd, how about the people who find out you're helping a Goddamned super serial killer?

How is this Blood Bather even able to help them take down a vampire court (and why do they need to)?

Also? Blood Bathers are dumb and stretch the bounds of willing suspension of disbelief.

>>44251229
Would there need to be? I've never really been attacked more than once in a turn.

>>44251711
>Seek out someone shady that can release you from the Pledge without the others knowing
There's actually a Goblin Fruit in the Rose Bride's Plight SAS that spoiler alert for an SAS: kills you for 12 hours and releases you from any Pledges without you breaking your oath or the Pledgecrafter being any the wiser.

>>44253270
Might be good to just wait until 2e comes in a few months, unless you need it now. That'll have Legacy rules, though I think Dave might have spoiled enough of them so far.

>>44254531
As far as Legacy rules go I'm pretty sure there's enough to make a Legacy. The problem is we don't have the "designing spells" parameters (or example spells) needed to fill it with Attainments.

For example, Dave recently stated that you can duplicate the Bearers' first Attainment, but under 2e it'd be a third Attainment because now automatic success requires the third dot (I imagine that probably means it's Practice of Perfecting).

>>44254041
Do they have legal sanction to do extralegal magical kidnapping? It's not like they can do that shit on-the-clock and then submit the proper paperwork explaining it all to the chief.

>>44252133
Hopefully we'll get someone for all the major releases.
There's always magical girls

>>44252623
>Skull-fucking evil is garbage-tier narrative and has no place on the PC side of the table in fucking CHANGELING.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I don't feel this is true. I mean, there's an entire SAS that revolves around how the Changelings need to literally torture a child to protect the Freehold from the Gentry.

But everything else is spot on, even the passionate incredulity.

>>44252789
I'm pretty sure MOST splats in 1e especially would lose Morality for just being complicit friends with a serial killer. I mean, I'm not personally against having fucked up allies, especially in light of things like The Fear-Maker's Promise, but...
>the player in question just probably doesn't want to actually TRADE so much as ACQUIRE.

>>44253115
>>44253019
There isn't a full write up of Forces from 2e, stop being a cock.

>>44253544
>I definitely recall several players providing me with evidence that you could back out of pledges, and I trusted that, but I'm checking this again because you may be correct
Very incorrect. How would you even back out? Backing out literally breaks the pledge. They had to make something new for that SAS I mentioned last post JUST so the character could back out of a Pledge without it going tits up as part of the mystery. It's presented as a major secret. Characters are at a -4 penalty to even know about the fruit, much less what it does.

>He's a bad guy, for sure, but this is an intensely political game and he could be a big bargaining chip so their intentions aren't as ridiculous as you'd think.
No, it's players not thinking is what it is. I don't have a problem with players getting in bed with evil, but this is ridiculous. You're trying to find ways for them to weasel out of it so they don't feel the negative effects. That's not even your job. If it should happen, they should be the ones to figure it out.

>>44254759
>There isn't a full write up of Forces from 2e, stop being a cock.
I wasn't being a cock. I was pointing out that you don't need a full writeup of Forces from 2e to know that you don't need Forces 2 to mess with fire but Forces 5 to mess with gravity.

I'd love to argue about this Changeling stuff, but I should probably focus on getting my Werewolf game started, since all my players seem to be around.

I am curious how the ENTIRE FREEHOLD seems to avoid causing felonies, since that's basically a thing supernaturals have to do.

Basically, what >>44253989 is saying.

>>44253995
You need to call them out on it whether or not they plan on doing it.

>>44254041
Oh, it's the Motley, not the Freehold Pledge. Well, they should just deal with losing an eye if they think it's so necessary.
"We probably should have thought this through".

>>44254414
It could grant supernatural merits probably, but not powers.

>>44254805
No, but you do need the full write up to know what you can do. He's not going to be able to implement that kind of system wide 2e rules change to his game with just the spoilers.

>>44254876
That's what I was thinking, I had to put a kibosh when one of my players wanted demonic form abilities after he heard demons can remove their form-abilities and make gadgets out of 'em.

>>44254414
Outside, definitely. I think letting it work otherwise is bad design space to open up.

>>44254925
That's like asking the God-Machine to come get you.

>>44254876
>He's not going to be able to implement that kind of system wide 2e rules change to his game with just the spoilers.
Oh, shit no, but that's not what he was saying. He was complaining that Awakening's magic is shitty and limited compared to Ascension's, due to things like the Forces speedbumps.

My response was "it's not going to be when the new book comes out". He asked me to prove it, essentially, and so I did.

>>44254428
Right, sorry. The Onyx Path owes a few licenses now and has developed some new ones, so they're not in danger of totally vanishing even in the worst case. They don't have the IP for WoD, just licenses, but Paradox doesn't look to be thinking about yanking that away. I'm a little surprised they even wanted the oWoD, but, you know, I don't fucking care what happens to oWoD.

Also, worth noting that Paradox is using White Wolf as a subsidiary rather than putting their direct stamp on things, so it's not Paradox's World of Darkness, it's White Wolf's World of Darkness.

>>44254939
What >>44254978 said. Even if you could, that's just asking an Angel to come after you and retrieve you for disassembly.

And a mortal is going to have no idea what's happening or how to even try to stop it.

>>44255005
>I'm a little surprised they even wanted the oWoD, but, you know, I don't fucking care what happens to oWoD.
They wanted the oWoD because they're a bunch of European LARPer nerds, and Europe never really embraced nWoD.

They were considering just canning nWoD entirely before deciding they'd be satisfied with it just not calling itself WoD anymore.

>>44254531
>would there need to be a multiattack defense?
It depends how mean your ST is and how tactical your games get. This is basically the absolute best strategy for fighting anyone in melee (which is what a majority of supernaturals are geared towards, even though guns are almost always better even intravampire), every hit drains defense and even weak attackers rolling 3-4 dice of actual damage will very quickly add up. The ability for a high-defense character (IE, anyone who cares about fighting, excluding guys with hunting rifles who make killshots from four blocks off) to maintain that defense while getting rushed by cultists is the difference between getting to look awesome killing a bunch of cultists and having "butchered horribly in the stinking dark of some protohuman crypt miles beneath the city" written on your tombstone.

To put it another way, Chronicles of Darkness is reeeelatively reasonable at simulating (mortal human) combat, including "Bruce Lee surrounded by guys with knives is dead Bruce Lee." Anything that lets you break the default rules tends to be extremely valuable, especially in brutal games where violence will be common.

>>44254531

>blood bathers are dumb and stretch the bounds of willing suspension of disbelief

>changeling
>sin-eaters
>literally anything from Beast or associated with it
>fucking promethean
>M A G E T H E A W A K E N I N G

lel

>how does the blood bather help
Currently he's in the prince's pocket and gives him access to several powerful artifacts
Just losing access to those would be a crippling dynamic change, but getting them in the PC's court would be hugely beneficial, that and he's more of a beat stick than any of the players (most of whom aren't very combat oriented) and actually stands a chance against a couple of the elders that would shred my upstart PCs

>>44254759

>you're trying to find ways to help them
I was wondering if it was even possible
and this thread has convinced me that it isn't
so my players are going to lose their eyes )^;
and take on a curse
and then get TPK'd by vampires
GG no re

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>>44255045
>They were considering just canning nWoD entirely before deciding they'd be satisfied with it just not calling itself WoD anymore.

jesus, source?

> even though guns are almost always better

well, silenced guns in controlled situations. guns are loud and bullet holes and etc etc you know the drill.

>>44255160
"Silenced" guns are still pretty fucking loud.

>>44255045

Speaking of which, the first official Vampire LARP is going to be in an abandoned mental health facility in Helsinki. I keep posting this because I cannot believe that's a scenario that exists.

>>44255111
>changeling
>sin-eaters
>literally anything from Beast or associated with it
>fucking promethean
>M A G E T H E A W A K E N I N G

All of these things are way better than "if you just dump enough blood in a bathtub and do a little Max Caulfield splish splash, you'll become 'twice as strong' as a werewolf."

>GG no re

Attagirl. Remember, none of this is your fault, they chose to spread and grease their own assholes and then lie down in the dark of Fate's grungy bedroom.

>>44255181
Yeah, but not really "call the cops" loud, and more importantly they don't sound like gunshots or even what people think gunshots sound like. Killing someone inside their house with silenced guns, even if you have to do a few rounds of shooting, isn't going to alert the neighbors. Maybe in a closed boardroom the secretary checks in for a single shot, but not the security guard downstairs. It's like slamming a door.

http://theonyxpath.com/12-days-of-onyx-your-first-card/

Even the cards have grammatical errors, what the fuck.

>>44255045
>>44255005
>They were considering just canning nWoD entirely before deciding they'd be satisfied with it just not calling itself WoD anymore.
Going to agree with >>44255160
>Source?
I know Dracula likes Promethean, though he could always just put that in the oWoD. I'd actually like to see them just *give* Chronicles of Darkness to Onyx Path, and completely divorce the two products. I wonder how much new White Wolf cares about Exalted?

>>44255111
None of those other things have to kill one person a month just to fucking breath.

>Just losing access to those would be a crippling dynamic change, but getting them in the PC's court would be hugely beneficial, that and he's more of a beat stick than any of the players (most of whom aren't very combat oriented) and actually stands a chance against a couple of the elders that would shred my upstart PCs
I don't even understand why you would have this plotline in the first place. I mean, can Blood Bathers even go over 5 dots in anything?
Here's how your players can get the artifacts and not lose their eyes:
>Kill the fucking Blood Bather
>Take his shit

>>44255182
Why wouldn't it be? You can LARP wherever you want. Most people just do it in schools or churches because that's easier.
Although I'm not exactly sure how the organization of one of these things works.

>>44255430
Is it bad that I actually like the idea of community created holiday Condition cards? This is certainly better than that dumb fucking "you can reroll" card

>>44255045
Why doesn't Europe like nWoD?

>>44255654

It's totally fine, I think it's cute. It's just that if the blog's putting up the text, the least they could do is clean it up a bit.

>>44251744
Attorney client privilege (the evidentiary rule against revealing things between attorney and client in court) only applies to actual attorneys iirc. You can't just hire your idiot co-conspirator to keep them from being compelled to testify against you.

Attorney client confidentiality (a slightly different concept about the attorney's ethical and legal duty to not reveal things between the client and the attorney) almost never applies when the information that is supposedly confidential could be used to prevent loss of life.

Think about it this way: A guy goes into an office, and tells the attorney he killed a man. That's protected, assuming the attorney was his.

A guy goes into an office, and tells the attorney he's going to kill a man. That information isn't necessarily protected by confidentiality. It varies from state to state, but many would allow and even encourage the attorney to call the police if he couldn't convince the client to not do it.

>>44255751
Insufficiently high-action medieval. For all that the name "Masquerade" originates in oWoD vampire, you spent a lot of time armed and armored running out bisecting Sabbat (or Camarilla, if you want to play Sith Vampires instead of Jedi) and having crazy rooftop fireball fights and shit, and Werewolf was pretty much a mix of furry orgy (an important oWoD ritual is for werewolves to gather in a circle and have sex in Gauru form, according to central tribe The Children of Gaia, who grow unicorn horns due to their spiritual purity or whatever) and just slaughtering dozens of people armed with machine guns and backed up by industrial pollution demons and stuff.

Europe is all about that. Full contact LARPing never really took off in the USA, but EU loves it to (surprisingly rarely literally) death. Chronicles of Darkness is more about Gothic horror in the "subtle" fashion of the modern horror film, where things are quiet until the climax and probably no one owns a greatsword.

>>44256737

>and probably no one owns a greatsword.

That's what nWoD's been missing all this time! Goddamnit!

>>44255751
I don't think most countries ever got proper translations.

>>44256737
You'd think Americans would prefer the cartoonishly action heavy over the top oWoD while Europeans would prefer the talky social political nWoD.

>an important oWoD ritual is for werewolves to gather in a circle and have sex in Gauru form, according to central tribe The Children of Gaia, who grow unicorn horns due to their spiritual purity or whatever
One ritual that has no actual mechanics tied to it because oWoD was at a time when "good game design" didn't exist isn't really "important".

I'm really confused how European LARP works, though. Especially the modern stuff where you'd have guns. Do they just shoot each other with airsoft? Or because guns are illegal and hard to get in most of Europe, do they just use boffer swords and shit.

>>44255654
>I mean, can Blood Bathers even go over 5 dots in anything?

Yes, actually way over lel

According to the rules, you can apply a permanent +1 to any attribute, or one attribute multiple times, with no limit. But each increase makes the ritual more costly so you have to make up for it. This blood bather has a total strength of 13 - but he has a really elaborate ritual with a really strict schedule that can only happen in a certain bathtub and requires a lot of blood and a couple of hours of planning just to prepare, as well as some rare ingredients (including a drop of vitae)

That's how blood bathing works; the more stringent the ritual, the bigger the payoff

Killing him and taking his shit is way easier said than done, not just because he's strong - he's got a bunker, artifacts, contacts, tons of money, and he can't die (unless he misses his ritual) and he's got another 3 months before he needs to do it again. Slowing a guy like that down for 3 months isn't an easy feat.
It really looks like he's just going to leave the area on a private jet until this whole war with the vampires blows over and the party is dead or half blind, go on a vacation, etc

>>44256035

Yeah

Now a medical doctor of psychology, like a therapist?
Different story
There are laws permitting them from sharing this sort of stuff

Still wouldn't work though, because in this case the potential therapist would also be bound to stop them and when two pledges contradict each other one of them breaks

>>44256944
Your therapist is still legally obligated to call the police if they feel you're a threat to someone.

If your therapist knows you're a serial killer and plan on serial killing, they're not going to get malpracticed for revealing that information.

>>44256836
This is why Bloodbathers are dumb.

>>44257027

Depends on state HIPPA laws and also if they believe you're actually killing or if it's a *wink* hallucination but you're not technically wrong

As for blood bathers being dumb bc of that, know that it's a high octane game, I think the players are working with about 100 XP at this point after a few months of playing, though the roster has changed a few times. This pledge is new and its been a headache.
I don't think that makes blood bathers 'dumb' though. They're better suited as villains, but they aren't more broken than any mage or sin-eater by a long shot. I think they certainly fit the canon just as much as thaumaturges, changing breeds, changelings, or any of the other weird stuff thrown in

>>44257027
what makes them dumb? that they're powerful because they perform a ritual? Or is it the exact mechanics rather than the principle?

Are you dumb, anon? Possibly a faggot?

>>44257471
Didn't you say they were a relatively weak motley? Or at least new.

>>44257475
I don't like Bloodbathers because of several reasons.
That they have to kill so many people so often stretches the limits of how much I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of "whoo, ~spooky~". Unless a Blood Bather moves around more than a Promethean, they're going to leave a trail of missing persons way larger than can be written off as "well this is the World of Darkness and people go missing all the time". They'd have to be literally the only reason people go missing, and I don't know, "missing persons are all the work of supernatural creatures" already kind of rubs me the wrong way.

They kill more than the most prolific serial killers in history, and by the rules of the game, they'd be unplayable broken shells riddled with derangements. That they can get stupidly gamebreaking stat boosts isn't even the issue, it's more the fact that their concept is just really dumb and poorly thought out.

AmyV just posted on twitter that she's writing Shadowrun again.

So, was she lying about the blacklist or what?

>>44257810
Or she was just under the impression there was one or was making a hyperbole.

>>44257810
different company, anon.

>>44257810
She never said she is on a blacklist, fool.

>>44257810
She quit Catalyst, she was dropped from OPP. Big difference.

>>44257841
>>44257854
If I recall, she either said she didn't want to say bad things about OPP for fear of blacklist... OR it was that anon who hates RichT saying that he'd blacklist her because he's a jerk and something about mishandling Exalted.

>>44257810

Shadowrun is headed by Catalyst, which is not in any way related to Onyx Path. Just because she's no longer taking jobs from one company doesn't mean that the rest of them aren't. It's actually really fucking hard to get totally blackballed from the industry itself, rather than one or two companies.

>>44257810
Who the fuck is Amy V?

>>44257938
Yeah, it's not like she's a Communist in 1950s Hollywood.

>>44257975
some faggit tranny shithead who leaked shit to us and got fired for it

dumb bitch

>>44257810
She stopped working on Shadowrun earlier by choice. Also, checking her Twitter? Why are you so obsessed with her?

>>44257786

No, just that most of them aren't built for direct combat

>>44258015
She didn't leak anything. She just made the stupid move of getting beta testers from 4chan. Then one of them (I'm guessing you) leaked it to get her fired.

>>44258015
Did she write anything good?

>>44257786
>That they have to kill so many people so often stretches the limits of how much I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of "whoo, ~spooky~"

Not necessarily true. The strongest ones have to kill a lot of people, but the frequency might be every decade, those people could come from a variety of places over several years, and it's even possible to have a ritual that doesn't require killing anyone or fresh blood - meaning you could just rob a blood bank or set up a phony donation system or something lol

But it's also possible to have a blood bather that only needs enough to coat the skin, meaning he wouldn't even have to hurt more than one person and possibly not even kill them.

A blood bather that has to kill 10 people every week or every month is going to draw shit tons of attention, for sure, and they're also probably going to be hella powerful

The ritual is a lot more customizable than you seem to think

>>44257977

Someone could consistently throw people into a fire on a monthly basis and there'd still be someone who'd say, "Well gosh I really liked your D20 rules, wanna work for me for half a cent a word?'

>>44257786
>>44258132
Also, they are probably one of the rarer supernaturals out there.

>>44258104
Some werewolf fiction and a vampire christmas special. They were k

She says she's done unpublished work so we'll see.

>>44258239
>a vampire christmas special
wut.
Tell me more.

>>44258104
She apparently made Technomancers not stupid. /srg/ likes Lil Mac.

I'm surprised she's going back them, though. She quit Catalyst before the book her friend called "her baby" came out because she was unsatisfied and disillusioned with the way they wanted METAPLOTMETAPLOT and tied the hands of the writers.

But I guess getting shitcanned from OPP it's better to go back to doing something that's a disappointing reality, as opposed to doing no work and having no money.

>>44258239
Vampire Christmas special? Man, I have a incredibly hard time imagining vampires celebrating Christmas as anything other than an excuse for some cabal of Crone/Lancea vampires to do weird ritual shit. And vaulderie

>>44258433
>>44258451
>wut.
>Tell me more

http://theonyxpath.com/want-for-christmas-vampire-the-requiem/

how did dramatic failures work in first edition?

>>44258467
Oh just fiction? Lame, fuck that.

>>44258485
they didn't.

>>44258546
I thought there was something for dramatic failures if you rolled all ones? tons of 1E books referred to dramatic failures.

>>44258561
>the joke
>...
>your head

>>44258561
He's saying they didn't work, not that they didn't exist.

>>44258516
>just fiction
Chronicles is hurting pretty badly for fiction, anon. They could use a few more really good fluff writers. AmyV made a stupid mistake, but remember that time someone greenlit Changing Breeds?

Or the intro fiction for Ghouls?

Or for Damnation City? (I think? The one with the baby and the dog. You fucking know which one.)

Even at just k tier it probably isn't a good idea to blackball anyone on the basis of a playtest leak, which is not unlikely in any event and everything's open development now anyway. I'm assuming she got called in over it and just went completely berserk and bit someone. Also, aside from the leak and some decent fiction, did she do something specific that I should actually be hating her for? I know stupidcuntanon has a serious rageboner because he's in every other general expressing himself, and I've always wondered if he's like a jilted lover or she sometimes posts hatefic about nationwide castration or has a string of felony assaults on the elderly or what's got him so riled.

>>44258911
But anon the intro to ghoul was a good showing of how fucking shit-tastic it is to be a ghoul. And that incest is alright or something. But really wants so bad about the intro for Ghouls, I wouldn't say I enjoyed it but I appreciated how it depicted the life of a ghoul.

Still though you make a good point, more fiction would be nice, hopefully Changeling and Prommie will have some good stuff.

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>>44259072

>>44258451
Vampires don't just cut all ties with human society or their mortal lives, you know.

>>44258561
In 1e a Dramatic Failure happened when you had your dice pool reduced to a chance die (less than 1) AND rolled a 1.
People barely rolled Chance Die as it is, but that you also only had a 1 in ten chance of Dramatically failing is even worse.

Honestly, I think that Shadowrun's Critical Glitch rules are a workable update of the oWoD botch rules. You get a critfail if you fail AND your roll is mostly 1s. And if you succeed but get mostly 1s, something bad-but-not-disastrous happens.

>>44258911
>I'm assuming she got called in over it and just went completely berserk and bit someone
If she can bit someone over Skype, that'd be scary.

>>44258911
Nothing wrong with a little BvD.

>>44259163
wut

>>44258911
My friend refuses to see Vampire as anything but shit because she's a 90s child obsessed with the 80s and read New Age Requiem and was disgusted by all the for the evulz blood orgy shit.

>>44259160
Isn't that exactly how it works in 2E?

>>44259227
Yes, but in 2e you can choose to take a Dramatic Failure instead of a normal failure, and get a Beat.

Unless you meant the half-1s thing, which no, it's same as before, but you can choose to take it.

>>44259277
Ah, fair enough. Seems like it happens so rarely it's barely worth considering in many situations.

>>44259220
Damnation City had a story about vampires who made embraced babies fight ghouled dogs as a blood sport. BvD stands for "Baby vs. Dog."

Last thread, I mentioned wanting to work on a World of Dark Western/Dark Frontier Shard. Has the wild west ever been covered/discussed in NWOD? I know there were some Victorian era books.

>>44256810
>Or because guns are illegal and hard to get in most of Europe, do they just use boffer swords and shit.
I wish this meme would just die. The ex commie countries and the UK are BAN EVERYTHING LOL, the rest are actually quite decently armed. Just because they don't shoot each other or wank to their pieces all the time doesn't mean they aren't packing heat.

>>44258467
>^_^
Fuck that made me cringe so hard I closed the tab.

>>44257027

In my state the law is slightly different. Or at least how the law was explained to me (I'm still in med school and not actually practicing).

If I feel a person is a danger to themselves or others I can call the sheriff and have them involuntarily commit someone (e.g. cuff them and forcibly bring them to the hospital). However, I don't actually have to justify myself to the Sheriff or the Deputies. Most physicians do of course you don't want to piss off the cops by not telling them that they maybe getting into a fight with a crazy person. But technically I only have to tell them the guys name, my license number, and ask them to bring him to the hospital w/ or w/o his consent.

I only have to explain my reasoning to the family/the chief of Psychiatry at my hospital.

>>44259363
Yeah, that's basically why it's something you can take by choice in 2e.

Which does admittedly make some things, like becoming Wolfblooded, a bit silly. Wolfblooded happen if someone Dramatically Fails at their Breaking Point for Lunacy.

Breaking Points are Resolve + Composure rolls.

Wolfblooded are more likely to happen in people who are weak willed...

>>44259745
Most countries have stricter gun laws, and the average gun is a rifle. In the US everyone has handguns and there's no real restriction on things like armour piercing rounds and tec-9s get into the hands of gangsters.

>>44259848
>and there's no real restriction on things like armour piercing rounds and tec-9s get into the hands of gangsters.
Oh boy here we fucking go. Wouldn't be Realms of Darkness without some stupid bitch starting a stupid slapfight.

>>44259876
It really shouldn't be some sort of "slapfight" to point out that the US has looser gun laws. I mean, I don't think anyone would ever argue that's not true.

>>44259903
yeah, the only thing that should change from person to person is whether they think that's cool or not

>>44255751
It's not exactly that Europe doesn't like nWoD. It's more that Europe LOVES oWoD. Loves Masquerade to be precise.

Masquerade LARP-ing was HUGE over here.

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So, riddle me this - why did Iron Will jump up from Resolve 3 to Resolve 4 in the new CoD book? Indominable still needs Resolve 3, and that lets you resist flippin' mind control. It strikes me as wrong that you have to be even more stubborn than that to have bonuses when spending willpower in social situations. Really bothers me and my "implacable man" character concept.

>>44260081
You're not implacable at Resolve 3.

You're also not eidetic, because it was Resolve 4 in the GMC rules update as well.

>>44259416
WHAT THE FUCK.

>>44260029
Yeah, but they also dislike nWoD because they feel that it killed their beloved thing.
It's also weird that even people who don't LARP don't like nWoD.

>>44260081
Why would it bother you? Also, >>44260221

>>44259416
>>44260273
That kind of thing is weird to me because weirder shit has happened in real life, but it also still feels so out of place and silly.

>>44256810
>I'm really confused how European LARP works, though. Especially the modern stuff where you'd have guns. Do they just shoot each other with airsoft?
>confused
>implying

>be American
>be LARPing
>get shot

>>44260314
I'm sorry, this isn't /b/, I'm not dumb enough to understand what the fuck you're even saying.

>>44260288
>Yeah, but they also dislike nWoD because they feel that it killed their beloved thing.
>It's also weird that even people who don't LARP don't like nWoD.

I am European, and I love nWoD. There is a large nWoD community here, it's just that the oWoD one is huge.

>>44260314
Some are airsoft LARPs, yes. Others, like the MET ones "roll" attacks. Depends completely on the system.

>>44260340
Most Euroes I know (French, Polish, German) complain that no one in Europe plays nWoD.

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>>44260221

Huh, you're right - it was 4 then. Dunno how I missed that.

>>44260288

It still makes no sense to me, though. Indominable's +2/-2 dice apply when relevant without any kind of cost or check or anything. Iron Will does nothing unless you spend that point of Willpower, and it's only an effective +2 versus spending Willpower normally.

If it's because of the 8-again, then I can understand that even if I don't like it. There's also the fact that a PC is more likely to have to deal with social tests than mental-affecting abilities. But to me, having natural resistance to mind-control and the like should be harder to get than resistance to conventional social pressures.

>>44260363
Ah, yeah. Down on the continent I suppose it's different. People aren't that good at English down there, and it might be (hell, almost certainly is) a translation issue.

>>44260273
>>44260288
>>44259416

It's not that weird that insane, immortal assholes would want to do something like that. It's not that hard to get a hold of a baby when you have Obfuscate and Dominate and you can kill the parents, especially if you target poor communities where the police aren't going to care too much about some ghetto rats disappearing after they've bred, good fucking riddance. Fuck, I can see a Southern Sanctified who believes that children born of infidelity can't wash away the sins of the father with baptism running a discreet abortion clinic where runaway redneck girls disappear.

What blows my FUCKING MIND is that the BABIES ARE BEING EMBRACED. What kind of professional fucking sea cucumber is burning WILLPOWER DOTS on KILLING BABIES? Holy shit it is less Experience to just learn Obfuscate and carry a goddamn bomb into a maternity ward. So STUPID.

>>44260288
>>44260363
Pretty sure the only thing anyone gives a shit about here is Masquerade. MAYBE either version of Mage. MAYBE. Seen a little Sin-Eaters exposure here and there, which honestly kind of makes sense since it hits a certain cheesy note that folks here seem to like.

As a side note, 40k seems VERY split between the RPG and wargame here; Virtually nobody gives two fucks about the latter but every single LGS carries so much DH and BC material it utterly dwarves out D&D and almost dwarves out DSA.

>>44260430
Huh, Yuros don't like D&D?

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I'm finally getting Pack Creation underway for my Wolves of Gotham game.

God it is not easy...

>>44260454
Sure, but it's not the end-all-be-all of TTRPG, as it seems it is in the US.
We never had the "D&D will corrupt our children to satanism"-panic to give it publicity, I suppose.

So relative to today, when did Atlantis sink?

>>44260454
They kind of do but >>44260477 this. Additionally, many companies made their own knock-offs. The Germanosphere for example has DSA, and most of the D&D market that did exist was eventually hoovered up by Paizo.

>>44260494
100,000 years from now.

>>44260494
Considering time magic was involved in the shenanigans that happened, who the fuck knows.

>>44260494
Literally impossible to tell. Assuming atlantis even existed at all. Reality has become twisted from the ascension of multiple mages since then. Whatever happened to atlantis has probably been written out of existence.

>>44254531
>Might be good to wait until 2e comes...
Yeah, that was my plan. Waiting for new rules, see if it can emulate a merit or not. Emulating epic merits seems cool.

Would you stat a Djinn as a Spirit or an Angel?

>>44260610

Depend on what they want and how they go about getting it.

How would a Demon react to one of the people they cared about being replaced by a garbage robot?

>>44260610
Inferno demon

>>44259848
>In the US everyone has handguns
Gun statistics are kind of skewed because someone who legally owns a handgun probably owns a couple. Most people don't own a gun.

>>44260494
Eh, sort of never. When Atlantis was destroyed, it ret-conned itself, so that it had never existed.

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So... Any of you, guys could share PDF of Chronicles of Darkness Core book, by chance?

>pic sadly related

>>44260770
Some people own several. I'm aware of that, though. But most people who do own a gun will own at least a handgun. They're the most popular type of gun in the country and the one most often used in violent crimes.

>>44260863
>>44249153
>>The Chronicles of Darkness Core Book(Which isn't in the Mega link)
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Abn1a6PgUCa19KbjdNcmNMWms/view?pli=1MWms/view?pli=1

>>44260854
Atlantis is Pre-Crisis.
Or pre-New52

>>44260894
>Atlantis is Pre-Crisis.
>Or pre-New52

Disturbingly close, yes. Complete with references to stuff that hasn't happened in the new continuity.

>>44260894
Thanks, anon

>>44260640
>How would a Demon react to one of the people they cared about being replaced by a garbage robot?
Depends on how rational they are. Our Tempter would use Rip The Gates to try and find a way to Arcadia from the Hedge.
>>44260610
>Would you stat a Djinn as a Spirit or an Angel?
Fae, >>44260681 or some entity of the Aether. Djinn in Islamic lore occupy a place not entirely dissimilar to those of fae post-Christianization western beliefs. That is to say, they're the remnants of more ancient entities being let's say culturally subjugated into being subservient of the main god.

Unlike Fae however, Djinn are believed to be equal to humans and capable of being saved, being the only other entities on earth in the possession of free will.

>>44260863
It's in the OP.
>tfw have the purchased PDF and the pirated one
I even know.
>>44259425
I dimly recall some half-sentence in I think Werewolf, but that could've been my imagination.

Tangentially related, but I wonder how many RL scientific theories really apply in nWoD. With the GM around a fairly decent case for Intelligent Design could be made, for example.

>>44260924
>Tangentially related, but I wonder how many RL scientific theories really apply in nWoD. With the GM around a fairly decent case for Intelligent Design could be made, for example.

Eh, I dunno. It feels more like the world made the God-Machine than the other way around. It's too damn imperfect to be anything greater.

>>44260924
The way I see it the god machine is a malfunctioning remnant of pre-fall Atlantis or some other advanced lost civilization.

Deus ex Machina. Machina ex Homo. Deus ex Homo.

>>44261035
>or some other advanced lost civilization.
Irem. The Judges are Analysts.

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>>44260924
>>44260938
Yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to say that the God-Machine is a case for Intelligent Design. Among other things, the God-Machine is a ruined engine fucking itself to pieces, probably.

One of those other things, by the by, is that "Intelligent Design" is a specifically Christian Young Earth myth with no connection to science, based on the assertion that the Earth is six thousand years old or so and archaelogy, biology, and geology are all fields literally ruled by Satanists.

It has no other context. You're thinking about the idea that an intelligence entity shaped the universe, which is intelligent design lowercase, and the association is deliberate - people who think the lowercase is reasonable might be fooled into supporting the uppercase on the grounds that it's the same thing. Fundamentalists are very good with branding. See also "American Family Association," which gets way more donations than it probably would if it called itself "Faggots Get Nothing," which is closer to their actual platform.

Anyway, the God-Machine isn't a celestial watchmaker. It's this fucking horrible grinding broken-down thing coterminous with specifically the planet Earth, and its origin and purpose are blank spaces to write whatever you want, but it's never really given the kind of scope implied by omnipotence.

>>44261065
nope
the god machine is really just a old TI-82 powered by Dr Pepper. there is nothing scary or special about it and the only reason someone would go crazy from it is them trying to realize how the fuck a diet dr pepper is powering it

>>44261065
>by the by
This is awful. You're awful.

So to the people that acutally read beast, how easy would it be to just make a beast that scares women by making them think their going to get raped/murdered late at night on their way home.

>>44261065
>Anyway, the God-Machine isn't a celestial watchmaker. It's this fucking horrible grinding broken-down thing coterminous with specifically the planet Earth, and its origin and purpose are blank spaces to write whatever you want, but it's never really given the kind of scope implied by omnipotence.

It MIGHT however be the celestial watch.

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>>44260494
Tomorrow, yesterday, and 10,000 years ago. Simultaneously.

>>44261371
This is why people hate beast.

>>44261384
Is it because it's totally super fucking easy and I'm not far off base.

>>44261391
Got it in one.

>>44261384
Fuck no its fun
i am going to make a man who hunts black widows and i will teach them that you should not think yourself as top of the food chain because monsters are real

>>44261409
or i will just run them over with my car that i stole

Honestly I'm tempted to make a really stupid Beast, like have some guy trying to scare japan into having kids or make NEET/Weebs afraid of their waifus. Just, something fucking stupid.

>>44261424
I am now tempted to make a beast that goes into someones dream and reads my immortal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdv6Q68EutU

If I was to be real for a minute I'd probably make a leviathan esc Makara that spreads nightmares around a oil rig or something. Perferably just make a Apex Beast so the character could be an ACTUAL monster instead of some fucker that looks human 99% of the time.

>>44261371
>>44261409
Seems like a standard enough Beast character.
>>44261065
>"Intelligent Design" is a specifically Christian Young Earth myth with no connection to science, based on the assertion that the Earth is six thousand years old or so and archaelogy, biology, and geology are all fields literally ruled by Satanists.
>
>It has no other context. You're thinking about the idea that an intelligence entity shaped the universe, which is intelligent design lowercase, and the association is deliberate - people who think the lowercase is reasonable might be fooled into supporting the uppercase on the grounds that it's the same thing.
Interesting to know.
>>44261035
Might be. Since it's said time and time again that unlike Supernal magic or Fae shit Essence and GM fuckery are technically /within/ the observable universe (inb4 DaveB walks in and slaps my bullshit down hard) I wonder whether the GM would actively stop humanity from uncovering the mechanics involved in the workings of Infrastructure.

Actually, that might be an interesting Chronicle on its own.

● A working group of Fractals at the University of Washington has found a way to duplicate Occam's Razor. Does the party try to suborn them, support them or just blow it all to hell because the smell of Angel is way too thick on the entire project?

●The Gadget one of your cult members recently broke was mysteriously fixed by their uninvolved spouse who seems gifted with the talent for all kinds of inventions. Do you cut them off, or attempt to get to the bottom of this?

●It appears that a limited run of the Casio DW-6100 has a minor malfunction that causes it to run backwards in the presence of Aether. It's disturbing to think about who might still own one.
I don't know, I'm ranting.
>>44260938
>It's too damn imperfect to be anything greater.
Oh, I'm by no means saying it did a job deserving of a biblical "And It Was Good", only that it was involved somehow. Guess this is the capitalization thing mentioned.

>>44261563
>● A working group of Fractals at the University of Washington has found a way to duplicate Occam's Razor. Does the party try to suborn them, support them or just blow it all to hell because the smell of Angel is way too thick on the entire project?
That smells like a classic murder college kids solution.

>>44261563
>>44261635
wtf is a fractal

>>44261657
It's a form of Demon kid, they can use some demon powers I think.

>>44261065
>Faggots Get Nothing
This made me spit out my tea.
Now I can only imagine Willy Wonka.

>>44261657
>>44261677
They're what Dhampirs are to Kindred, Proximi to Willworkers and Wolfblooded to Uratha.

>>44261677
>It's a form of Demon kid, they can use some demon powers I think.
Sounds snowflake.

I think the kid of our pack leader might be a Mage. Should I tell her or keep it to myself? She's been a bit... well. Antsy, shall we say.

>>44262036
What does your character know about Mages?
Does he know about the whole Supernal and Seers might be coming to recruit the kid business, or just that this kid is capable of weird stuff?
How young is the kid anyway?

>>44261382
Atlantean Dragons when they realized they done fucked up.gf

>>44261424
I randomly thought of making Beast AI's.
>Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

>>44262053
My character knows vaaaaguely what it's all about on an intuitive level (they were built for another campaign that fell through so canonically they were a sleepwalker before their First Change wiped that) and kind of knows that mages are scary people.

He's not seen overtly supernatural stuff, but the kid seems a bit too good at sensing shit and 'runs across' a Mage the pack's had not-too-good dealings (we're not sure WHAT she's trying to do but it seems to always end up with a massive clean-up job for us) with a bit too often. Which is actually why my character initially got suspicious in the first place; He's kinda dumb enough to try and shadow (hue) a mage. I really wonder if the ST just asspulled that whole thing or meant for us to learn it later.

>How young
10 - 13ish? Reedy as fuck apparently though we never got a character pic or exact age.

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>>44262171
>seems a bit too good at sensing shit
>Adept level early teen Mastigos
Fun.
>>44262141
...Unfleshed getting haunted by Beast Viruses?
>>44261657
>wtf is a fractal
Extremely potent type of stigmatic that >>44261677 draws its power from lineage. Implied to be nearly peerless in terms of how intuitively they do use their skills. You get no snazzy transform, but hey at least the GM's not trying to recycle you.

>>44262249
>...Unfleshed getting haunted by Beast Viruses?
Sure why not. There are some pretty good examples of Beast AIs in fiction, for example; HAL 9000.

>>44262249
>You get no snazzy transform, but hey at least the GM's not trying to recycle you.
That's because the GM already knows about you and probably controls you. The more Demon Blooded you are, the more the GM is close to being able to completely control your mind and make you do things that further it's goals, probably even leading to your parent's deaths.

>>44263001
But hey, at least it ain't a Fetchspawn Dhampir.

>>44263107
Fetchspawn is a thing?

All this stuff makes me want to have a mad scientist who's trying to breed the ultimate monster. I don't know whether it would be better as a Mage or an Ordo Dracul member. Probably a Mage would have an easier time merging biological data, although these days you can have three biological parents.

>>44263187
So we have a loony Life, Space and Spirits Mage doing this. (They used Space to make a Klein Prison for the Fetchspawn, as conventional methods weren't going to bloody work.)

>>44259813

That's pretty much Rose's calling card, especially on her KS updates. I don't even notice it anymore, to be honest.

help /CofDg/! I need ideas for sewer based cryptids/crypto-flora for an area my hunters are going to be thrown to, they're going to try to access some well defended infrastructure from bellow and it's been running off aether for a while now

>>44263187

There are two kinds of Fetchspawn. One, the other, both, or neither exist, depending on who you're asking.

The first kind is a child created out of true love, by a Fetch that truly believes they're human. The child's an human (if a bit more sensitive than most people) with one major exception: their blood is toxic to the True Fae. Dip an arrowhead in the blood of a Fetchspawn and shoot it at a True Fae and it burns like cold iron and kills even better.

The second kind is created by a fetch that knows it's a fetch, no matter how much love is involved. The child is born without morals or ethics, and an intrinsic connection to the True Fae that created the Fetch, though the child isn't aware of it. If I recall right, they can use a few Fetch powers, specifically Call the True Fae.

>>44263856
>sewer based cryptids
Albino alligators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewer_alligator

>crypto-flora
Mind-controlling carnivorous mushrooms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Trip_(The_X-Files)

>>44263934
>The second kind is created by a fetch that knows it's a fetch, no matter how much love is involved. The child is born without morals or ethics, and an intrinsic connection to the True Fae that created the Fetch, though the child isn't aware of it. If I recall right, they can use a few Fetch powers, specifically Call the True Fae.
They also cannot be contained by any means, aren't even aware that other people besides themselves EXIST and will at some point be called to Arcadia to become one of the Gentry (If you know anything about Changeling, you'll know this a bad thing.).

>>44263934
The second kind of fetchspawn make great serial killers because they can make themselves forgotten and unnoticed easily.

>>44263856
Since I'm going to have a Gator-Host in my game, I'm going to go with >>44263947

>>44263934
That first kind of Fetchspawn seems like they just exists to have players either protect them from other Changelings or kill them and coat weapons in their blood.

>>44263961
>>44263969
That sounds slightly dumber, and frankly I'd want to use a version of Fetchspawn that's a mix of the two. Uses Echoes and has sensitivity, but isn't inherently immoral.
Basically a dhampir for Fae.

Also, I hope dhampir in the next Vampire book have eyes that glow when vampires are near.

>>44263969
So you could have one as the Antagonist in a Hunter game.

>>44264017
It's basically a Slasher at that point.

>>44263961

I knew I forgot something important, thanks! So yeah, fetchspawn: either the greatest boon or the worst nightmare for a Changeling ever.

I wonder if it's time for an Innocents 2e with Fetchspawn, Fractals, Dhampir, and the like in addition to a Mortals Kids update.

>>44264010
>Also, I hope dhampir in the next Vampire book have eyes that glow when vampires are near.

That's dumb as shit. Make it a stupid Merit if you have to but don't inflict that on the whole template.

>>44264029
>Alpha, summon a group of teenagers with attitude!

>>44264042
It's a part of the traditional Dhampir mythos.
Also, having jellybones.

Either of those really would be cool merits.

>>44264010

>That first kind of Fetchspawn seems like they just exists to have players either protect them from other Changelings or kill them and coat weapons in their blood.

Well, yeah. The idea is that they're a moral conundrum: they're pretty much a normal kid/person, but they're such an amazing blow to the True Fae. What's a Changeling to do?

It's a very video gamey moral choice to be sure, but this was the late 2000s, before we really started to get tired of that kind of stuff.

>>44264045
Aye yai yai yai

>>44264045

"Teens with Attitude" is probably like 90% of all WoD crossover in practice.

>>44263852
>That's pretty much Rose's calling card, especially on her KS updates. I don't even notice it anymore, to be honest.
Now you know why I don't visit that blog a lot.

>>44251229
>Hey Chris, is there a Werewolf Gift that lets you maintain a full Defense no matter how many times you're attacked in a turn?

Nope, at least not in 2nd ed. I can't recall there being one like that in 1st ed either.

>>44264122

Fair enough. This thread serves a decent enough RSS feed for it, at least for the WoD stuff.

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>>44263001
I'd need to re-read FoH, but isn't there a three-tiered system for that kinda thing (Noticed, Marked, Hunted)? Or did that only apply to Offspring and Latents? But yes, it's unfun. Then again, only one splat actually deals with how being a supernatural is kind of alright, and almost noone plays it (yet/anymore).
>>44262395
Reminds me of that one thread detailing a situation in which humanity was the only race with functional AI. Sooo basically, the best lesson a Beast can teach is "Don't make intelligent murder robots".

Which depressingly enough is way above the quality of examples provided in the book.

>>44264294
It's Heirs of Hell; Flowers of Hell is the player's guide.

And yes, there's tiers. You get an Exploit or Embed at each tier.

>only one splat actually deals with how being a supernatural is kind of alright, and almost noone plays it (yet/anymore).
What splat is that? A lot of them seem to have that.

Also, that's a pentagram, not a pentacle.

>>44264294
>what do you mean the Pizza Hut is Infrastructure

>>44264325
Oh fuck THEY ALL ARE.

>>44264321
Three seconds on Wikipedia:
>The words pentacle and pentagram (a five-point unicursal star) are essentially synonymous, according to the Online Oxford English Dictionary (2007 revision), which traces the etymology through both French and Italian back to Latin, but notes that in Middle French the word "pentacle" was used to refer to any talisman.

And even under the neopagan definition:
>There is a specific differentiation between pentacle and pentagram within Wicca and other neopagan traditions. Namely, a pentacle refers to a pentagram circumscribed by a circle. This form of pentacle is formed upon a disk which may be used either upon an altar or as a sacred space of its own. The pentacle is representative of the Earth in occult usage.
That pentagram IS on a disc. The disc is the pizza.

>>44264426
Alright, so it is.

I was under the assumption that pentacle was upright and pentagram was downturned.

On the subject of pentacles, I like the bit from Dresden Files about an Anarchy symbol pentacle, where the star was poking out of the circle.

>>44264453
Yeah, "Power Unrestrained". Was pretty cool. I'll be having a cabal with that kind of pentagram as a symbol.. whenever Mage2e hits.

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>>44264512
>>44264453

Best pentagram of that style I found in a few minutes of googling. Can anyone find a better looking one?

>>44264512
>whenever Mage2e hits.
NOT EDGY ENOUGH.

>>44264592
I'm not doing it to be edgy! They are!
They are going to be punk sorcerers, to the embarrassment of the entire consilium.

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>>44264566
I imagine more like this, but without the A behind it. Scratchy and uneven and off kilter. Not organized and ordered, but pushing the bounds; outright unrestrained and misshapen.

>>44264660
Yeah. The only one with the points outside the circle I could find was pretty clean.

>>44264386

The Stuffed Crust Pizza is the Lynchpin. If it's destroyed forever, the while thing crumbles.

I wonder, with all this talk of Fetchspawn, could you have a Bloodlines made of Embraced versions of the first type? The idea being that the first of them was created when a member of that Bloodline with blood control Embraced one of the poor buggers.

>>44264122
>>44264216
I wonder what life is like, being such a huge faggot that an emoticon on the internet is this distressing for you

>>44259813
>Hating on emoticons outside of 4chan
Not every site on the Internet is an imageboard, anon. And using reaction images outside of an imageboard just makes you look like a faggot.

>>44265015
Everything you do makes you look like a faggot. Ever wonder why?

>>44265015
I can understand why people dislike them (they look childish), but the super hate for one or two emoticons being used is just really weird.

>>44264917

Could be cool, but it might run afoul of "don't stack the templates" depending on Fetchspawn mechanics.

>>44265719
if other templates could also awaken as mages, which would be the most potent combo?

>>44265732
Thyrsus Werewolf.

>>44265744
Lemme guess, they could change the spiritual representation of their form, without altering the form itself, right?

>>44265744

Good god, they'd be unstoppable. Infinite healing, infinite change, master of spirits...

Thyrsus Elodoth. Might as well pack it in now.

>>44265789

It's more that mages have different capabilities with the spirit world (and life-forcey stuff) than Werewolves do, which are complimentary. They're already my pro-tip for "which major template will give a pack the most bang for their buck by recruiting one of" - werewolves with the ability to rewrite spirits, alter the Gauntlet rating, design new forms to shift into and alter regeneration rate would be *boss*. The terror of their neighbours.

>>44265811
I'll say it now.
>"Well, we're boned."

>>44265824
I think the best thing a Pack could recruit is an elephant. Then use the Rite to have your Totem Claim something and then the power that lets you switch places with any pack member.

>>44265905
Oh god, now the furry ICBMs have an Instantaneous Movement Teleport. Well fuck.

>>44265942
It's the capstone Elodeth Moon Gift:

>TIES OF BLOOD AND BONE (•••••)
>The strongest ties of all are those that bind the pack together. This Facet lets the Elodoth draw on those connections at a deep and visceral level, exchanging places in a shiver of fleshy metamorphosis.
>Cost: 3 Essence
>Dice Pool: Stamina + Empathy + Honor versus Stamina + Primal Urge
>Action: Instant, may be Contested
>When using this Facet, the Elodoth chooses a single packmate within his Honor Renown in miles. If the packmate wishes to resist the Facet, she may do so with her Resolve + Primal Urge. If the Elodoth chooses a packmate out of range, the Facet simply fails.
>Roll Results
>Dramatic Failure: The Facet fails, and the backlash of metamorphic power inflicts the Arm Wrack or Leg Wrack Tilt on the Elodoth.
>Failure: The Facet fails to work.
>Success: In a moment of shifting flesh and bone, the Elodoth and packmate simply become each other, exchanging places. Both retain all garb and equipment they were previously carrying. This facet does not give the Elodoth awareness of his packmate’s condition or situation before the exchange.
>Exceptional Success: Both the Elodoth and packmate heal two points of lethal or bashing damage during the exchange.

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>>44265998
Croikey!

>>44265998

I gotta play an Elodoth next time I play Werewolf.

>>44265998
>Both retain all garb and equipment they were previously carrying

Does straddling a bomb count as "equipment"?

Would the impact of falling at terminal velocity carry over to the new location?

>>44266404

I assume that physics doesn't really apply in a situation like that. A formerly falling person would probably be stable and standing when the switch happens.

>>44266480
does the ground based person take up the previous faller's momentum?

this could save lives

Do wolf-blooded or ghouls remember Magic in 2e?

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>>44264294
>>44264325
>>44264386
>>44264844

>>44266666
>1 out of 2 people found this review helpful
>devil quints

God Machine pls, I don't need this sort of paranoia in my life right now

>>44264010
>>44264042
>>44264058
You know what else has abilities similar to vampires, hunts/preys upon/is bad news for vampires, and has glowing eyes?

Strix.

>>44266762
Oh god, what if a Moros found a way to trap a Strix within a physical body? only said body now has the ability to swim through Matter, and it runs on every spirit in the area.

>>44264844
>The Stuffed Crust Pizza is the Lynchpin. If it's destroyed forever, the while thing crumbles.
I KNEW that shit was fuck-off evil.
>>44264917
>Kiasyd reborn
Methinks it'd take mage fuckery for that to 'stick', if for no other reason than the heavy and intentional bias against template stacking in the system.

>>44266857
Stop trying to break things.

>>44265905
Well, there's a use of Ties of Blood and Bone I hadn't expected - Surprise Elephant Strike.

>>44266404
>Does straddling a bomb count as "equipment"?
You're not really 'carrying' something you're straddling. Bandolier of grenades you've got in your hands or something though is a-ok.

>Would the impact of falling at terminal velocity carry over to the new location?
I, er, let me think about this one for a moment. I'm fairly sure the velocity remains on the location, ie if you're falling at high speed and you switch with a pack-mate, *they're* now falling at high speed where you were and you're fine (unless they were in an even worse situation than falling before you switched with them).

>>44266642
>Do wolf-blooded or ghouls remember Magic in 2e?

I'm fairly sure they do, but DaveB can confirm or deny.

>>44266891
>Stop trying to break things.
No.

>>44266909
>Surprise Elephant Strike.
that name is perfect.

>>44266909
>I'm fairly sure the velocity remains on the location

aww, no SUDDENLY POWERBOMB FROM HIGH ALTITUDE surprise attack

>>44264917
Well, since vamps work by consuming blood, and the fetchspawn's properties exist within the blood, you could probably do some crossover/mix-and-match shit without needing an entire bloodline.

>Vampire turns a fetchspawn into a blood doll, suddenly finds himself fae-proof

>>44266950
I was thinking about 'fae-killing-blood-beams' myself.

The wonders of Sakti Pata.

>>44266404
>>44266480
>>44266909
>>44266947
Well, you do shapeshift into each other, so the Elodeth would be the one falling when he changes places with the packmate.
Also, there's no reference to being able to mitigate certain amounts of falling damage other than in Cat Leap. The write up for falling damage just implies you can mitigate it ALL. It ignores the line from the 1e core that says "only a certain amount--say, three points".

>>44266909
>Well, there's a use of Ties of Blood and Bone I hadn't expected - Surprise Elephant Strike.
Probably the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Alternately send the weakest member of your group in, to negotiate, then if things go south the Elodoth jumps in and murders things.

>>44266909
>>44266642
>I'm fairly sure they do, but DaveB can confirm or deny.
As far as I can tell they would; He says people with powers intrinsic to themselves don't count as Sleepers.

>>44266987
The mental images accompanying that description are wonderfully disgusting - a vampire just sort of spraying streams of blood out around the place like a really high-pressure super-soaker full of the red stuff.

>>44267097
>super soaker of blood

well isn't that an image

>>44267130
the best part? With Sakti Pata you can control this blood after you've sprayed it everywhere. this can be really horrible for things from Arcadia if your blood is imnicable to them.

>>44266988
>Probably the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Alternately send the weakest member of your group in, to negotiate, then if things go south the Elodoth jumps in and murders things.

Oh, there are all sorts of possibilities for how to exploit Ties of Blood and Bone, I just hadn't quite expected pachyderm assaults.

Forsaken's Gifts have lots of synergies and combinations, some of which are easy to spot and some of which are surprises to me even now.

>>44267252
Care to give us more insight? Any fun things you've done?

>>44254876
>No, but you do need the full write up to know what you can do. He's not going to be able to implement that kind of system wide 2e rules change to his game with just the spoilers.

I know I'm late, but that wasn't what the question was. You need to learn how to read buddy.

>>44267280
Pack Kin and Lead the Lesser Pack tend to open up a lot of options by bringing characters into the pack off whom other abilities can then play. I seem to remember some absurdities off Reflected Facets combo-ing with Ties of Blood and Bone in play-testing as well. What else, there was a nasty set-up of combining Knotted Paths and a wildfire. Also a version of Fog of War being used to... re-target a mage teleport, I think? Can't remember whether that sort of thing is still possible with the final Fog of War text.

My own players haven't done too many silly things that I can think of off the top of my head. I've had a Bale Hound abusing Skin Thief and Feet of Mist to really fuck with PCs (who after all tend to rely on their ability to track things quite a lot and get very weirded out when that doesn't work).

Need to sit down with my book and remind myself, it's been a while since I wrote them all.

Ah, that was it, Ward the Wolf's Den and Fog of War; mage NPC attacked a pack in their lair with a scry'n'fry attempt, the ward-wolf retargeted everything right back at the mage.

That said, and again I need to check the Fog of War text, I think you *can* use it to retarget/fire off course someone teleporting with a supernatural power.

>>44267385
We're actually pretty damn close to being able to run it. We'd just need more clarified rules for Mage Sight, basically, and to CT every single spell based on the Practices. And make up our own Sympathy chart for Withstand ratings.

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Gotham city Werewolf ST here. Any advice for running this? I mean, I realized that half my PCs are young teens, but the setting is mired in things like police corruption.

That's not too bad, since in general they can still deal with that on the ground floor, healing the damage done in the area, but at the same time I doubt they'll be interested in plotlines that involve the criminal gangs.

Although I do think that some of the real Batman characters will be part of Packs. I'm thinking that Carmine Falcone (a mob boss) might be a Wolfblooded.

The setting is basically New York but with me getting to use a few familiar plot hooks from DC comics, but I'm still worrying over how to make a Werewolf setting and run a Werewolf game to begin with, so any sort of advice would be good. I've got my pack mostly together, though they still need to make Wolfblooded and Humans, and one new player might drop because they're not too hot on the setting, and are getting overwhelmed.

Also, just in general does anyone have maps of fictional cities, and/or advice for making one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkoMVAOL_uI
For some reason, this made me think of Werewolf. Maybe it's all the references to Spirits.

>>44267784
Oh shit, Frontier was my jam. I used to watch half of it before heading to the bus stop in... probably high school, but fuck you, it was cool.
https://youtu.be/9eOJsm9ubGk
>mfw I still remember the lyrics.

>>44267778
>Gotham city Werewolf ST here. Any advice for running this?

Possibly, if you can be a bit more specific about what sort of thing you need advice on?

The one general one I always say is make the totem a full NPC with its own agenda and plans, its favourite pack members, its own Shadow political allegiances and ambitions. Every totem should have a *plan* for what it is it wants out of the pack, and how it plans to achieve that.

>Also, just in general does anyone have maps of fictional cities, and/or advice for making one?

I'd generally suggest thinking through the history of the city when mapping it out. A good city feels organic and that every area has its own past that has shaped the present.

>>44267840
>Possibly, if you can be a bit more specific about what sort of thing you need advice on?
I'm just coming back from a long RPG hiatus in general, and new to Werewolf specifically. Any advice would help. I'm taking your suggestion about new Werewolves just getting tossed into a pack together and told to sort out an area. One player and a filler NPC are older more established Werewolves, but the other three are newbies.
>Momma bear werewolf and her Wolfblooded Husband (Itheur Blood Talon)
>Former nun-slash-Hunter unsure of what to make of the fact that she's now a monster (Blood Talon Rahu)
>Kid who ran away from home and turned to prostitution and drugs because of his Change (Elodoth Ghost Wolf)
>"Hot Topic-ette" loner girl who tended to fight when people picked on her (Rahu Bone Shadow)
>Friendly "I give out the quests" nerd NPC (Iron Master Cahalith)

They've made some social links with each other (though I worry that pack creation didn't go as smoothly as it could have) and most of them have most of their sheets, but that's all so far.

I've been planning on letting them decide what their Totem is, and which place in the city they're actually watching over.

Can you give me some suggestion on what Territories a pack might have? Is it as simple as "these few blocks" or do they usually want key locations controlled? I know you suggested five or six NPC packs, and with two Blood Talons I'll probably want some Pure and maybe Balehounds (since one of the themes of Gotham *is* basically Corruption as well as "shits fucked").

I figure the location the newbies are being sent to should be something relatively important if the packs in the area want it looked after, even if they don't want to do it themselves. I figure previously they'd have had a rotating thing where the packs take turns of handling their own territory as well as this little outpost.

>>44267622

I hope that's true, if only for the incredible and occasionally hilarious potential that has against the other splats, let alone other Werewolves.

>>44268267
>Can you give me some suggestion on what Territories a pack might have? Is it as simple as "these few blocks" or do they usually want key locations controlled?

Varies a lot depending on the specific situation. There's a tendency towards 'everything within these boundaries is our territory' but that's not always viable to enforce or manage. For example, in my Paris game, the banlieu packs tended to get shirty if you entered their territory without notice or good reason. The central arrondissements of the city, though, are a) where a lot of Stuff is concentrated, b) have a massive flow of people through them every day and c) the packs there are in a Protectorate focused around a particular geographical location. As a result, the arrondissement packs would nominally lay claim to an area of territory, but what this really *meant* was that they would have a number of key locations controlled within that area but wouldn't get upset if you passed through the arrondissement in general, especially for particularly mundane purposes. The arrondissement territories were also heavily peppered with neutral grounds, specified unclaimed areas, etc etc.

What you generally don't find is a pack trying to claim disparate areas scattered across a city with other packs' territories in-between those claims. Spiritually, werewolf powers and rites tend towards 'I claim this swathe of land' rather than 'I claim here, here and here but not the bits in between'.

>>44268419
>banlieu
>arrondissements
This is part of why I'm using a fake city. There's stuff to learn, but you don't "need" to learn it. Doesn't feel like I'm doing it wrong if I find out about something two weeks in.

So basically a lot of Packs have territories that are on paper theirs, but really they're only guarding three or four parts within that territory? Like, "From Uptown to the Central Line is our territory, but so long as you don't bother with the high school, homeless shelter, and the abandoned building on Lexington, you're free to come and go"?

>>44268498
As I said, it varies. The packs in the centre of Paris really *can't* enforce the borders of their territories vs all-comers - it's just not practical. Even they, though, are quick to lay down the law with anyone they catch pissing around. Especially for an area that's not got a Protectorate, local packs are likely to be considerably more touchy about territory than the Parisians, with stronger 'keep the fuck out' signals. Thats not to say they won't have some allowances for intruders, but don't expect a warm welcome.

If a pack *can* enforce its borders againts any interlopers, it generally will.

Of course, within a territory there will be key areas that are more significant, and where a greater level of effort will be put into protecting or guarding them. Most packs don't have territories so small that they can viably use Boundary Wards to cover the whole thing, but you can expect they'll have the wards on those key locations and resources. Also expect agents like Wolf-Blooded and human pack members, arrangements with contacts and spirits (whether allies or bound) to keep watch over areas that need the oversight.

Note also that a pack doesn't *have* to claim territory all the way to the next pack's claim. A wise pack will claim what it a) wants and b) feels it can actually manage. Expect large areas of no-man's-land as well as hot border wars.

>>44268905
What kinds of places are Werewolves likely to call territory? I'm not actually seeing much on Territory in the book.

How was Ravnos defeated during the Week of Nightmares?

And how the fuck did no mortals notice the giant monster God fucking shit up? How does an Antedeluvian waking up not cause a WoD Revealed scenario?

>>44269081

The same answer to all Metaplot questions: don't worry about it, it's not going to matter in two or three books.

>>44269081
Ravnos fought three Kuei-jin Bodhisattva's and then got nuked by super charged beams of sunlight shot from satellites controlled by the Technocracy.

>>44269040
Usually any area they live in, to be honest. You lay claim to the place you care about, the place you feel comfortable and familiar in, the hunting ground that you know like the back of your hand. Now your hunts, well, they'll often take you out of that sense of security, but it's always good to have home turf where you have the advantage.

Of course, werewolves are a varied bunch in varied situations. Sometimes a territory is claimed because of a powerful resource - so one bunch of Uratha claim that farmhouse and its fields of greenhouses because of the immensely potent locus growing there. Another pack rolls in and takes over an oil field - subtly, of course, using Gifts and cunning to make themselves the local employees - because it's a source of wealth and power and because it has a strange, lodestone-like effect on supernatural occurrences. Then there's the high-minded idealists and big-picture types, like the pack that claims the area around Bunker Hill because they think it has symbolic resonance with many of the spiritual hierarchies of the US and figure they can enact huge, widely-affecting rites from the place. There's the pack that holes up amongst the printing factories because they fear or care about influence over mortal information and want to make sure no other buggers are manipulating or controlling the presses and pamphlets.

These sorts of things can go both ways; a pack takes a territory for prime resources or key elements to control but comes to care about the region itself, or the pack's initial members live in an area and therefore become *the* pack who deal with the fact there's a concentration of, say, war memorials in that neighbourhood and over time more and more werewolves who care about the dead and the symbolism of that come and join them.

How good a hunting ground a territory is for the pack's favoured prey is also pretty significant in the decision of what to claim.

>>44269252

It still amazes me that this huge setting changing revelation occurred in an appendix to an otherwise unrelated book on high generation characters.

>>44269730
Welcome to metaplot.

>>44269802

It's a hell of a thing. Deadlands theoretically did it worse, but White Wolf's Metaplot and how it implemented it is still so bizzare at times.

>>44270205
L5R is still the worst metaplot.

>>44266642
yes, both. Neither group are Sleepers.

I'm not a big fan of Mage, but I'm all for people who love it. I just wish we could have more options for low-magic in nWoD. I don't want cosmic power, I want to see people with charms and throwing minor curses or doing rituals for the promise of a small comfort in their lives. I think that fits more in the vein of personal horror stories and yet it seems almost completely absent from nWoD and no sign of it for CofD.

>>44271177
Hopefully one day we'll get Second Sight 2e.

>>44271211
>>44271177

CofD core has a little bit of that going on with the Supernatural Merits and some previews we've seen of Hurt Locker, but yeah a Second Sight 2 would be great. The Thaumaturgy and Psychic systems could be improved a lot with Conditions, I think.

>>44271119
Hey Dave, in 2e could I use Forces 2 to shield against magnetism?

>>44249153
Hey, WoDG;

Three questions:
>1. Can someone briefly explain beast to me Been away from WoD for quite a while. What is the fluff like, and how exactly is this game somehow suited for crossover with all of the wildly different powered splats?
>2. How compatible is nWoD 1e material with nWoD 2e?
>3. What support is there in materials for mortals in nWoD2e?

>>44271177
You are the best kind of person who should play Mage and I would be glad to have you in my games.

>>44272203

1. Beast is a game where your soul has been replaced with an Astral incarnation of an ancient monster. The incarnation comes from The Primordial Dream, which is in the Tenemos from Mage. They tied their origin to the origins of other monsters except Demons, who are of the God Machine. The fluff tends to have uncomfortable implications, since Beasts feed on very real human fears and don't mind doing so.

2. Decently compatible. You may have to do some futzing around with a character's Defense score, but you can use most 1e material with little to no problems.

3. The Chronicles of Darkness core is explicitly for Mortals, and that's about it so far. The Hurt Locker, a book about combat and violence, is forthcoming and will have more Mortal material.

>>44272284
>Beasts feed on very real human fears and don't mind doing so.
So they're like Autumn Court Changelings?

Do they have any unique schticks of their own, that the other splats don't cover/can't really do well (Pledges/Goblin Vow type things)?

I get that it's supposedly crossover friendly. How does it accomplish that thematically (Esp. Changeling, as a friend wants to run a changeling 2e game when the book is available)? How does it accomplish it mechanically?

>Decently compatible.
Dogs of War/Armory/Armory Reloaded stuff is mainly what I'm thinking of here. Maybe *Some* of the hunter options which presumably anyone could pick up.

>The Hurt Locker, a book about combat and violence, is forthcoming and will have more Mortal material.
That sounds useful. Is that supposed to be coming out soon?

Side note: Are there rules somewhere for playing as C:tL Goblins, rather than Changelings proper?

>>44272391

They're like Autumn Court Changelings, but without the nuance. Their deal is that they get to have Lairs, areas where they manifest their preferred territory upon the world, which gives them benefits and serves as their power stats. Beasts can supercharge the powers of other supernaturals, and can feed themselves off of other supernaturals doing their thing.

As for those books? You'll need a bit more math with that. Most bladed weapons do Lethal now, and weapon modifiers no longer add to the dice pool. They're flat damage that successes add on to. I don't know if there's a hard and fast rule to converting that stuff over.

>>44272391
>Do they have any unique schticks of their own, that the other splats don't cover/can't really do well (Pledges/Goblin Vow type things)?
They are a living pocket dimension and can boost the power of other supernatural creatures.

>I get that it's supposedly crossover friendly. How does it accomplish that thematically (Esp. Changeling, as a friend wants to run a changeling 2e game when the book is available)? How does it accomplish it mechanically?
Beasts feel a connection to other supernaturals (they refer to them as family) and can become stronger from knowing them by creating Kinship Nightmares. This leads them to try and learn more about other monsters. Beasts can also feed vicariously through other supernaturals which means they don't have to go out and be abusive assholes to live. Furthermore, they can immediately recognize supernatural creatures and can even attempt to fool the senses of other monsters to trick them into thinking they are the same. For example, if a Vampire used Auspex on a Beast, the Beast could try and detect as a Vampire. They can also open portals to other worlds like using a Locus to travel to the Shadow, but they don't have an innate way to sense these gates so they'll probably need to be shown where they are.

What little culture they have says that Beasts are literally related to other monsters, but this almost certainly isn't true.

When it comes to Werewolves and Changelings, Beasts are somewhat useful as a neutral party because they aren't seen as enemies by spirits or as playthings like with Changelings and the True Fae.

>>44272391
>Dogs of War/Armory/Armory Reloaded stuff is mainly what I'm thinking of here. Maybe *Some* of the hunter options which presumably anyone could pick up.
Hunter actually has an update in Mortal Remains. Or at least a 1.5. For most of Armoury Reloaded, just drop the equipment bonus from weapons by one, then have it do that much damage automatically on a successful attack instead of adding bonus dice to the roll.

So, when Network Zero becomes a full Conspiracy, which faction takes over? What endowments do they give their members?

My money would be on the Secret Keepers. The Network would work to build up as much information as possible, waiting for whoever the higher ups to approve the dropping of a Information Bomb. That obviously when the Army of Truth come in, busting into TV Stations and hijacking newspaper printings, whatever is needed to get the Truth out there. This would obviously earn them the ire of a few other conspiracies and compacts, but maybe the admiration of others. It'd certainly piss off the Task Force a bunch.

What do you guys think? What other Compacts could reasonably upgrade to Conspiracies?

>>44273074

The Union could probably do it, once enough people get over "this is for me and my own".

>>44273208
What sort of Endowments would the Union have?

>>44273286

It'd probably be something called "Collective Bargaining" that's a more powerful version of Your Friends and Neighbors.

>>44272737
>For most of Armoury Reloaded, just drop the equipment bonus from weapons by one, then have it do that much damage automatically on a successful attack instead of adding bonus dice to the roll.
Is there official conversion guidelines somewhere for 1e>2e? I wouldn't be the GM, and "a reasonable homebrew adaptation" rather than "some kind of official or developer backed conversion instructions" will likely just be rejected without consideration.

Hay I realize that iron skin has different Prerequisites in the beast book then chronicles of darkness. Is this on purposes or will one supersede the other?

There needs to be a line based around alien conspiracy theories.

>>44275804

Dunno. I'd say CofD supercedes the other, based on it being the latest book out, but that's just me.

>>44271177

Why does everyone forget that Mage: Chronicler's Guide exists? Or is it that no one bothered to read it because the title doesn't tell you what the book is actually about?

>>44276021

I don't know why, because that book was great. I think that might have been the best of the Chronicler's Guides by far.

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I made Conditions for that holiday thing.

>>44276021
There are like thirty books in each of the Big Three, even Werewolf. No one can know them all.

>>44276147

Its generally considered to be one of the best Mage books and deals with the kind of low magic that guy was looking for, as well as how to run Mage in a variety of different settings from action super hero to science fiction.

Complaining about there not being enough options for low magic in Mage when you don't even know that Chronicler's Guide exists shows that you shouldn't be complaining in the first place.

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>>44276251
>Complaining about something you want when you don't know that one of the 29 Mage books has that thing you want
Not everyone knows what books there are, and even less people know what is in each book.

Maybe instead of acting like someone is an idiot for not knowing about something you know about, you explain to them what you know and how exciting it is? Tell the rest of us about Mage Chronicler's Guide, and how it suggests handling a low power game or science fiction.

>>44276428

Go fucking read it.

If you don't know what each book is about then you can't complain that there isn't a book that deals with what you're looking for.

>>44276428

I'm pretty sure it's in the Mega, dude.

I always wished the Chronicler's Guide series would have continued into Changeling and Hunter, but oh well. Werewolf's wasn't too bad in hindsight, but disappointing compared to Mage Chronicler's Guide.

>>44276428

You already know that it exists. Putting your hands on your hip and asking to be spoonfed just makes you sound like a whiny bitch.

>>44276525
>Spoonfed
Take that asinine shit back to /a/.

>>44276501
That's some pretzel logic. You expect everyone to read every book? Have you read every book?
Someone can complain about something not existing when they don't know it exists in the first place, especially if it's in some lesser known sourcebook. I'm not even the guy who wanted it. The idea sounds interesting, and I'd like to know more (and to know whether I should bother getting it for that), but mostly I just think starting in on bitching at someone for not knowing something is an attitude I hate. The only way to know that information existed would have been to have read it in the first place, or at the very least to be told about it.

>>44276517
>I'm pretty sure it's in the Mega, dude.
I wasn't asking for the book itself--I could get that without having to download EVERY book--I'm just saying that giving a rundown of what the book suggests would be a lot... hell, a lot nicer than acting like someone is dumb for not knowing.

I'd also like to know what the actual advice is. If it ends up being similar to the advice for Fantasy settings in Mirrors, it's probably not worth it.

>>44276147

>Die Hard conditions

You know what? You're all right.

>>44276636
It is a Christmas movie after all.

>>44276625

You can just read/buy the book, though. Summarizing it would basically be "there is advice and mechanics to help you achieve different tones and settings of the game". To get in any more detail than that would be bordering on quoting the book, and I don't think anyone wants to do that when it's just sections in a large chapter.

>>44276625

You know what the book is called, you know what's in it, just fucking read it already.

No one is going to spoon feed you, especially when you're the one who brought hostility to this topic in the first place.

And, no, you're still wrong. If you don't know what books have published you can't say that the game is lacking in something.

Its like complaining that Mage has no rules for playing a noir game because you don't know that Mage Noir exists. Of course you're going to get called out for being a dumbass.

>>44276625
>That's some pretzel logic. You expect everyone to read every book? Have you read every book?
No
>Someone can complain about something not existing when they don't know it exists in the first place, especially if it's in some lesser known sourcebook.

No they can't. You can ask, "does mage have rules for this" but you can't say "mage doesn't have rules for this" because you don't know. And its best to know what you're talking about before making some sweeping comment about the entire game line. If you are unfamiliar and unwilling to learn about what those 30 books are about then you aren't in a position to complain that something is missing.

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>>44276147

I actually like it

>>44276765
>Complaining about there not being enough options for low magic in Mage when you don't even know that Chronicler's Guide exists shows that you shouldn't be complaining in the first place.
This is hostility. This is the kind of whiny bullshit I hate seeing in these threads. It's the kind of cancer you see on boards like /a/.

>>44276801
>If you are unfamiliar and unwilling to learn about what those 30 books are about then you aren't in a position to complain that something is missing.
Something tells me you're one of those idiots I have to keep correcting because they misunderstand the rules. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking that someone who's an ass is also an idiot.

>>44276729
I've never had any problems summing things up. Here, in fact, I'll do it right now:

Mage Chronicler's Guide doesn't actually provide any good suggestions for a "low magic" sort of game. In fact, most of the options get rid of things like sleeper witnesses inflaming Paradox. Some of these rules would work a lot better with 2e (like how the High Fantasy version has Paradox for Vulgar magic, but not witnesses).

The closest to what the original poster was looking for is from the section suggesting using Mage rules to play psychic characters. It suggests one option to completely ignore or replace Paradox, and also suggests limiting powers. The rules for that amounts to "use the Rote pools instead of Creative Thaumaturgy, and don't let players take powers that don't feel psychic"

So, like I said, giving a summary of the information is useful for a person to decide whether a book has what they're looking for. I went and got the book. I don't feel that it had what I'd wanted. If people had just summed it up for me, I would have the better part of an hour back

That said, the section on Punk Mages was worth a laugh. Overall it's not a bad book, but it wasn't what I was hoping for when people acted like it gave all the answers for a low powered game. I'd be in the same place on my own

>>44277412

Literally no one but you is whining here.

>>44276147

Yippee ki yay. That is wonderful.

>>44277507
The three people who keep replying to me when I complain about the complaining certainly seem to be what I'd call whining.

>>44277412
Addition: "Pop More Pills, Pillhead" is also worth a laugh.

The closest the book comes to low powered magic is Psychics, which gets the suggestion of "change the names, only use rotes, limit things" and the last one in Mirror Magic that turns everything into an Extended action Ritual, if that's the kind of low magic you're going for.

My suggestion is to use Mage 2e's systems with the Gifted Merit from Witch Finders, or at least a system where everyone is Proximi.

Would the Speedwagon Foundation be better as a Compact or Conspiracy? If a Conspiracy, what would make for good Endowments?

>>44277784
Make a Tibet conspiracy with a Sendou endowment. I've thought about it but never committed stuff to writing.

>>44277784
Someone in the /SSS/ (Why don't we have those anymore?) threads said that they'd be like the Cheiron Foundation, but less inclined to remove various bits of your anatomy and more inclined to charity work.

>>44277412
>This is hostility. This is the kind of whiny bullshit I hate seeing in these threads. It's the kind of cancer you see on boards like /a/.

And your entitlement is the cancer that's killing a lot more than just 4chan.
Grow. Up.

>>44278279
>SSS
Smokin' Sick Style?

>>44278289
Super Stand Sunday, I think they died due to the hype for the Part 4 anime fizzling out.

>>44278289
Solid Snake Simulation

Ok, I got this idea for a central mystery for a Mage game:
In the general area, Once Upon a Time, there was an Archmaster, doing Archmaster things.
Being too busy understanding/manipulating the forces of the cosmos, he created a set of Ochemata to watch things for him. Because they shouldn't get up to mischief, they were programmed to find him, report in, and get their new orders every now and then. They were also given a marked hostility towards each other, so that they wouldn't team up and cause problems for their master. Now, however, that Archmaster has vanished. Perhaps he ascended, perhaps he got unmade by an enemy, or perhaps he disappeared into the Abyss. What actually happened is kind of irrelevant, what IS relevant is that these Ochemata are now getting increasingly insane when they can't fulfil one of their core orders.
The fact that they got themselves into rather important institutions around the region doesn't help.

What do you think of that, teeg?

>>44269081
I don't profess to know much of cWoD, but aren't Ravnos illusion users? I'm sure the Antedeluvian itself could mask itself in a region sweeping phantasm that hides much of it from scrutiny from near anything.