Exalted General - /exg/

>>44229433
>top cut off because lolphone
Fucksake
First part should be

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>>44229433
>Have you ever made a kid with Neomah?
Yeah, once
>What kind of stuff did you make it from?
There was my Night, his prev incarnation, his Lunar gurl, the Neomah, and Scarlet Empress which took 4 sessions of backdoor politics, thieving, and general Blessed Isle shit to get the materiel of.
Unfortunately game died four sessions after the kid'd been thrown from the Tower and was only 4.
The original plan included somehow getting UCS and/or Luna stuff but we had to make do with prev incarnation and Lunar gurl.

>>44229433
>Have you ever made a kid with Neomah?
Not personally, but I working'd five of them to form a giant five-pronged tower called the palm as a humanitarian act in a city state modelled after Brighton (gay capital of the UK) for the poor, otherwise unable to conceive inhabitants.

>What kind of stuff did you make it from?
Bodily fluids or an organ of your choice - each one corresponds to a different trait you want your child to express. Their price is apparently random, but due to a flaw in my Working they're actually collecting all this stuff to secretly create a monsterous child of their own in the quinflames at the core of the palm.

So what would a Dragon-blooded sorcerer have to do to be labelled as Anathema? I don't mean mistaken for, I mean the Mouth of Peace has called what he's done to himself a desecration.

Paging the 'Siddies get Autobots help' AU guy with a question:

>What if, and bear with me here, there was an Alchemical within the Realm who was actually a Lesser Elemental Dragon? A sort of 'Dynast-by-proxy' if you will.

I understand that my idea is completely stupid, but there you go.

>>44230491
Becoming an Akuma will probably do it.

>>44230638
Don't exist in Ex3, also they're horrendously boring to play.

>>44230638
Newbie question but, how do Akuma "work" exactly? What makes them different from Infernal exalts or whatever?

>>44230661

Akuma are "Infernal exalts," Infernal is the supercategory.

Within Infernals there's Green Sun Princes (corrupted Solars with all the free will that implies) and Akuma (the sockpuppets of the Yozi who sold their souls for power).

>>44230661
You take a character, slap a semi-infernal exaltation on top and remove their free will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfV6yUUMhs
How would one adapt Pong Krells version of the Jar'Kai form to Exalted?

>>44230712
That seems un-fun. I take it you're not actually supposed to play akuma?

>>44230891
Akuma are not generlaly PCs no, because they have no free will.

>>44230491
Publicly side with a Solar/Lunar/other recognized Anathema

>>44230925
That'd do it, but I was mostly thinking about pacts with forbidden powers and reshaping himself with sorcerous workings.

>>44231010

Sorcerous workings probably won't be worth the Anathema title until/unless you're so far gone that anyone looking at or speaking to you would conclude "Yeah he's obviously become a sockpuppet for Malfean/Fey/Undead forces, kill the fucker."

>>44230613
So, an Alchemical that reached Essence 6+ and decided to take the form of a Lesser Elemental Dragon? But with all sort of technological bits, because they are really a robot?

I dunno. I'm too drunk to even think about the ramification, the why and how of an Alchemical doing something so incredibly what the fuck.

>>44231108
E5 is the Max innit?

>>44230901
>>44230651
AKuma as they were previously seen aren't a thing. Doesn't mean that there aren't some people who made Infernal pacts for power. It's like with elingthened mortals: they are still there, just not in easily repeatable, categorized manner.

So am I right in thinking you need to be a Solar to get immortality via Working? Restoring a body to the prime of their youth is Solar 1, which makes me think a Phylactery would be at least that.

>>44231326
Any Sorcerer can potentially do S1-2, but you need to be Celestial or better to do S3

>>44231114
No, E5 is the default max. There's already charms in the fuckin core book that have upgrade effects at essence 6, it's just that now it's implied E6 takes some great fucking work to achieve instead of "get old enough".

Is there stuff like that Perfect Soul write-up from a couple days ago, but for the other signature Solars?

>>44231801
[facebook]/notes/john-m%C3%B8rke/a-look-at-exalteds-new-solars-prince-diamond/10153738008345909

>>44229433
>Have you ever made a kid with Neomah?
>What kind of stuff did you make it from?

No but I had an idea for a Neomah deuteragonist. She was bound by a sorcerer in the South who is seeking to make an army the the strongest beings. as such he runs gladitorial matches with the Neomah as his champion. Those who defeat the Neomah win freedom/a prize and a night of lovemaking with the Neomah. The Neomah takes the seed of the champions and makes super-warriors for the Sorcerer's burgeoning army.

Do I need to be in a MA form to attack with charms higher in its tree?

>>44233244

No, generally you can use them any time (obeying the no MA/native-Charm mixing rule).

Some post-Form Charms might require the Form be up, but those are generally pretty obvious and explicit.

Is there anyone in here that can draw or anything? Im completely incompetent and would like to see my character be drawn up.

>>44234039

>>44199421

>>44234070
I have. No reply.

>>44231436

Huh. I guess Alchemical Colossi will be an E6 upgrade and cities are basically N/A plot-based developments? Who upgrades to a city without it being a major story-affecting event anyway?

Will someone explain to me you can have 659 pages and not have all the info needed to play all classes?

I call 3Rd edition tI be the biggest rip off ever.

New to exhalted and I'm pissed at this company already.

>>44234386

You've everything you need to play all five castes and have a selection of enemies to hinder the PCs. Exalted has always been in this format.

>>44234386
Solars have always been the Exalted you can play by core.

Each Caste also covers multiple possible iterations of "class", even if Exalted, like all Storyteller games, have no actual classes.

The majority of those pages was Charms for Solars alone, plus the core rules for the game.

>>44234386
>Classes
You mean castes?
It literally has all the info you need to play them.

If you mean the other Exalt-types, it's because they've never put anything beyond the stuff for Solars(and heroic mortals) in the core book. If they did, the book would have an extra 100-200 pages per exalt-type, because you need Charms, Castes/Aspects, relevant fluff, and whatever their specific unique thing is(Shintais/Shapeshifting/Astrology/Strength in Numbers/Necromancy/Body Horror Shit/whatever the fuck Getimians and Exigents will have)

>>44234416
>>44234474
I just find it kinda lame. Not everyone wants to be Solar Choose. Though my new ST says that Solar have akways been the favorite by the creators.

All I wanted was to make an Ice Exhalted. ; (

>>44234534
Then wait approximately... *checks calculations* eighteen and a half years for the Exigent book to come out and you can play the Chosen of Ice.

>>44234534
You can still have some icey things using Evocations, also known as special powers you have access to through Artefacts.

>>44234481
I suppose that makes sense

Is it possible to make an Solar Exhalted who uses ice in some form?

>>44234694
Sorcery and Martial Arts could be based around ice, although they currently aren't. Artifacts could also be based on ice, and one of them is; Shining Ice Mirror, a reaper daiklave.

There is no "h" in Exalted.

>>44234534
>>44234694
What do you want out of your character being Ice powers?
If you want a warrior, make a Dawn.
If you want a leader, make a Zenith.
If you want a wizard, make a Twilight.
If you want a rogue, make a Night.
If you want a diplomat, make an Eclipse.

Then, when you're picking Merits, give your character an Artifact weapon, somewhere between 3 and 5 dots, based on what combat ability you have/how you want to use it. Make it a Blue Jade artifact with an ice theme(hell, include a bit of Orichalcum in the composition if you want, as well), and figure out some ice-related exotic ingredients for it(eg the heart of a snowstorm, frozen lightning, a snowflake that never touched the ground, etc.). Either your ST will give you ice-based Evocations for it, or you can homebrew them yourself. Like >>44234727 said, Shining Ice Mirror is an existing example of a Reaper Daiklave.

>>44234970
>being Ice powers?
besides*, woops
>>44234694
You could also make an Eclipse and ask your ST to homebrew/let you homebrew up some ice-based charms that you could've learned from an Air elemental or ice-related god.
(Or just go full Homebrew and play an Exigent, but we have NO idea how they work yet, so you're on your own there.)

>>44234694
stop

>>44231436
>takes some great fucking work to achieve
Like what?
Living to be /really/ fucking old?

>>44234594
>>44234727
>>44234970
>>44235056
Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
I wanted to mame a fighter type ice mage.
What is Reaper Darklaive?
What exactly are evoxations? Like sorcery?

>>44235076
Lel the fuq

>>44235861

Read the book, nigga.

>>44235861
Reaper Daiklave are Daiklave that actually have the shape of a Sord instead of being just a man-sized and elephant-mass pieces of rock/gold/silver

>>44235861

A Reaper Daiklave are curved artefact blades resembling katanas, khopeshes, scimitarsm sabers, and other similar swords. Evocations are charm like power unique to an artefact.

>>44235974
Ain't nobody got time for 659 pages of dat.
>>44235986
Ok.

Welp thanks guys. Is there a way I could make clawed glove-gauntlets?
Or is that entirely STs choice

>>44236185
That's a thing in the panoply.

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>>44236185
Read the fucking book, pic very much related

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>>44236185
I was inclined to help you out, when I thought you just needed some guidance in an unfamiliar setting/system, but I'm not going to reward your laziness by reading the whole damn book to you.

Can you use Force-Rending Strike to clash with a gambit, such as a grapple?

>>44236406

Don't see why not? Attack's an attack, gambits are just attacks that do X instead of damage.

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>>44236286
Not even what I was talking about.
>>44236357
Both of you need to get the stick out if yer bums.

More like this

>>44236908
>More like this

Read the book, and you'll find out why those would be easy to make.

>>44236942
Scratch that. The GM booted me because I got annoyed and called his future game a sausage lovers party.

No biggie. He basically spent the time not talking and shooting down every idea I had.

Godspeed players.

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>>44237313

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>>44237313

How would you make a demon-blooded character at present? Just hope one of the supernatural merits kind-of-sort-of fits if you squint?

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>>44237313
A-are people like this real? Do people who think like this actually exist?

>>44237839

More or less. Maybe also let them grab an Eclipse-OK Charm from their heritage.

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>>44237313

I've always ment to ask this, but what cultures are the directions base on in Exalted? Not that great in historical comparison despise playing a game about mythical heroes

>>44239509
>>44239509

VERY loosely, the cultures in Creation can be more or less described as:
North: InuitVikings.
South: EveryMiddleEastThing
West: CarribeanSomethingorOther
East: SlavShitIThink?
Realm: ChinaRome

And then a fuckload of variation and twists on those concepts brought on by the setting's physics and history.

>>44239592

East is more complicated. Scvanger lands and far east.

>>44239509
West is The Little Mermaid, West-North is Frozen, West-South is Brave, West-West is Peter Pan

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>>44237490
What? I'm not entirely sure how to interpret that.
>>44237663
I'm sure thats super funny, but it went over my head.
>>44238328
Are you referring to me or the ST?
>>44239317
Lel. There will be other STs... I'm not worried.

Hey if he wants to have his game be Titty free. Thats on him.

>>44239592
>East: SlavShitIThink?
And Conan around the Dreaming Sea, I think.

>>44240112
Listen. Nigger. Pay close attention.

1. Take the trip off.
2. Read the Ex3 book. All of it.
3. Read the supplements for the previous editions. Most of it is still valid, just a bunch of the magitech from 2e got cut.
4. Don't be such a fuck-head when people try to help.

>>44240112
You're literally asking a group of people to tell you something you could find by simply looking through the book.
The gauntlets up here?>>44236908
They could still be done as >>44236286, just ignore the part about retracting the claws. Problem solved.

And read the fucking book.

>>44240253
>just ignore the part about retracting the claws
Maybe also remove the Concealable tag, on that note, but they'd still otherwise use the same exact stats.

>>44239509
Exalted actually has some quite creative twists on the typical 'historical but also a bit fantasy' cultures, but it's mostly like this guy said. >>44239592

East is really complicated, because it's the most inhabited direction. The Scavenger Lands are a collection of special snowflake cities with a variety of influences, while the East proper is a bit Slavic, a bit Exploration of the Americas.

>>44240219
>>44240253
This guy's clearly just fucking with us, ignore him.

>>44239592
>>44240191
>>44240284

This, plus the South has some Africa thrown into it's predominantly middle east here and there.

>>44240219
How the fuck am I being a fuck head, dear goddess.
The post previous, was concerning then ST?
I wasn't being fuckheadish to anyone k?
>>44240253
So you're suggesting I read everything as a new player and be able to know it by heart? Make sense.
Now I'm being fuckheadish

>>44240360
I made a post in a another thread about Exalted attracting faggots, but I didn't expect it to attract this kind of faggot.

>>44240389
You may not like Valkyrie, but mind where you are. /tg/ has rules about flaming

>>44240438
I don't care. He's entitled to his opinion. No matter how ludicrous.

>>44240438
>/tg/ has rules about flaming
Ha.

>>44240519
They do though. As I've been banned for flaming on here before.
>no shitposting, trolling, or flaming other posters.
Read /tgs/ rules bro.

>>44240619
Yeah, you and nobody else.

So what options are there for creating non-Exalted Essence users in 3E? Permanently enlightened or temporary (using Power Awarding Prana and the like).

>>44240284
Karaschin in the North also felt really Wallachia to me. It'd be a great place to have a Vlad-inspired Solar come from.

>>44241307
None. Enlightened mortals are gone.

>>44237313
Seeing as how you were just plain annoying and ignorant in the few posts I've read in this thread, I can totally see a sane ST wanting to throw you out of the window. Kudos to him. He has the balls and the wisdom to tell you to get out. Probably a cool guy.

>>44241307
Sorcerous working, or Wyld fuckery.

Go read the description of the eternal revolutionary, a mortal with essence pools and three charms. It's probably the high end of what enlightenment entails. Powerful for a mortal, good in his very narrow domain of competency, will be nuked by even a young dynast flexing his muscle. Still, it allows him to learn a Martial Art, which is the true path to power for an Essence user with shitty charms.

On this topic, do we know how we can have a thriving supernatural martial art scene in 3e with so few essence user? Are we supposed to believe that every DBs is either a master or an apprentice of a particular MA? With less generous estimate number, it is easy to reach an estimation where small MA schools have one or two essence users. That is insane. How can you have a thriving supernatural MA scene when you will find five students for five MA schools in Nexus? Or, UCS forbids, five students for six schools? Mechanically there is an issue.

>>44242656
>On this topic, do we know how we can have a thriving supernatural martial art scene in 3e with so few essence user?
I believe that 3e's explanation is that Snake Style is a mortal martial art like aikido or judo or whatever. But, take an elite practitioner of Snake Style and give them that divine spark of Exaltation, and they naturally learn to use those techniques even more effectively using Essence, just like how a Solar who was a master swordsman learns to use his Essence to cut a tree into sheets of paper or bisect an army.

>>44242270
>>44242656

Well that kinda sucks. The martial artists' philosophy of /anyone/ being able to aspire to a higher step on the path of enlightenment, no matter how low they started, was one of the few unreservedly 'nice' aspects of the setting.

On the school thing though, isn't that how many schools used to operate? A master might only take three or four apprentices during their life to pass on the teachings.

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>>44239931
...huh.
Shit works, even.

>>44242752
Yeah, we already discussed that to death.

E3 transitions from wuxia themes to traditional sword and sorcery themes. Some like it, other don't. I do not particularly care one way or the other.

>>44242752
The problem is that everyone who can get essence, should get essence. It's useful for everything because it is everything. If you don't get enlightened, you're objectively not being the best you can be.

I'd say the really "nice" thing about the setting is its very fundamental thesis that it doesn't matter if you're an unkillable Primordial being that reforms when its fetich soul is destroyed, or an immortal god-king with all the skill and talent in the universe. If you make yourself too much of a problem for the people you rule over, they can and WILL kill you and steal all your shit and shittalk your corpse.

>>44242752
>Well that kinda sucks. The martial artists' philosophy of /anyone/ being able to aspire to a higher step on the path of enlightenment, no matter how low they started, was one of the few unreservedly 'nice' aspects of the setting.

So give them a shaping ritual that lets them generate sorcery motes when they punch things and then let them learn MA charms as spells. Call it Fist Of the Lotus or something.

>>44243333

I jolly well will, if I ever run a game in Creation myself.

>>44243130

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the Exalted threads for a fair while. Out of curiosity, is there one person doing the posts or is it just whoever has the copypasta and a new picture?

>>44243390
>Out of curiosity, is there one person doing the posts or is it just whoever has the copypasta and a new picture?
The latter.

So I don't really get battle groups. If I have an army, do I attach myself in it as a commander? If I do, will I add my war skill to it when they attack?

Are there any assassin demons besides the bisclavaret?

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>>44243390
>Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the Exalted threads for a fair while.

Yeah, okay. Basically wuxia is big on self-enlightenment, being able to become better by training, when sword and sorcery is big on external power sources and eldritch wizards in towers making pacts with the unknown.

So now you can play a wizard that got his powers by making a pact with the local equivalent of Cthulhu, but not the martial artist who trained all his life to unblock his flaming fists engulfed in his soul fire. An important thematic change, but I don't particularly care again.

>>44243773
Read the book. This is like, something they're actually clear on.

>>44243773
Battle group is a separate character. If you use your turn to give them a command then they add your Command roll (Att+War) to their next turn's dicepools.

>>44243849
>An important thematic change, but I don't particularly care again.

You know, when people tend to not care, they act like it's not an important distinction. So... I like you.

>DRAGON-BLOODED MONKS
>The power of Terrestrial Exalted who undergo the Order’s
>martial art training is beyond question. Immaculates
>spend their lives developing their Essence, and use the
>natural Charms of their kind mixed freely with the proprietary Immaculate martial arts styles to perform feats
>of martial prowess notable even among the Exalted

...Immaculates can combo Dragon-blooded Melee with Fire Dragon Style? Or Dragon-blooded Brawl with... any unarmed style? Source is page 72.

>>44244090

That'd certainly give them an edge and a feature unique to their Splat. Will they still be able to access Celestial tier MA with a roll?

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>>44244025
Nobody cares about the things I do care. This teaches humility. You're still a bunch of faggots though

>Terrestrial: This keyword denotes that a Martial Arts
>Charm grants a lesser or restricted effect when used by
>Dragon-Blooded martial artists. Certain masters of the
>Immaculate Order have developed spiritual initiations
>that allow them to overcome these limitations.

Remember, there are no celestial martial arts any more. Everyone accesses the same martial arts but with different power. The Mastery keyword is still out of their reach though.

>>44243849
> The martial artist who trained all his life to unblock his flaming fists engulfed in his soul fire.

Sounds like someone who might just Exalt in a defining moment of that pursuit or something. Which oh hey, lets them learn MA charms for martial arts they know - you could even say they unlock their supernatural secrets in that moment of empowering insight.

So no, you can still definitely play that depending on how you explain your character's exaltation. I'm currently playing a solar ex-monk in training who opened his mind to the awakened power of the Tiger Style when he was chosen in a moment of need. To defend himself from a dragonblooded monk who questioned his right to seek out obscured knowledge and insuted his savior's name.

And Martial Arts are secondary to the character's shtick.

>>44243849
Exaltation is very much a mysery. For some it might look like it's an outgrowth of years of detemrined trianing or a supernatural reward. for others it comes as a complete surprise. Others still gain it precisely when they need it, as if by fate.

You can totally roleplay a character who exalted in the culimnation of reaching enlightenment. It's just that it is actually a msyery whether there is a causal link there or not.

>>44243167

You do realize that it is absolutely impossible for mortals to do anything against the Exalted Host and their lessers if they rebelled, right? That theme of the setting only applies to people with motes.

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>>44244136
Awh shit, nigga, I read Feng Shen Ji too.

>>44245605
>You do realize that it is absolutely impossible for mortals to do anything against the Exalted Host and their lessers if they rebelled, right?
No it isn't.

Is Dexterity still a god-stat?

>>44246276

It's not as overwhelmingly important as it was, and there's more emphasis on Strength and Stamina in the Charmset, but it could still do with some paring.

Some of the easier twiddles I've seen are:
1) Changing gross physical movement based on raw speed (ie rushes and general combat movement) to be Strength-based; Dexterity keeps disengages and quick jerky movements.
2) Granting a Parry bonus to a stronger defender.
3) Giving Strength and Stamina roles in missed decisive attacks, and letting withering attacks do some damage even if they miss.

Okay that last one isn't really "easy," it's actually pretty damn tricky to balance, but still. The first two mean a lot already.

The EASIEST easiest is probably just "Replace Dexterity in all attack and defense calculations with the new Fight attribute, which is equal to the lowest of your 3 physical scores, plus 1 for each of the other two higher than 3, to a max of 5." It won't hold up once an AttributeExalt drops, but eh.

>>44246596
>Granting a Parry bonus to a stronger defender.
I like this a lot.

>>44246655

It's a dangerous bonus, since a resting DV of ~8 is about where the combat engine starts to break down re: decisives, but a +1 that doesn't stack with your weapon bonus (thus incentivizing Heavy weapon users to be stronk so they get Medium-tier defense) shouldn't do anything too horrible.

How does your Appearance go up in game?
Like, do your tits just go up a size one night or something?

>>44246692
>a +1 that doesn't stack with your weapon bonus
Also interesting. Although depending on your definition of "doesn't stack" that could take a mortal heavy melee weapon from -1 to +1.

Resting Parry basically stops at 7, right? Att5Ability5Spec1 gives you 6, +1 for a medium weapon. Am I missing anything before you add charms?

>>44246714
Makeover montage, basically. Learn to hold yourself better, wash and brush your hair, exfoliate, smile when people talk to you, show off your good features and minimize your bad ones, saunter and smirk in just such a way to make all the girls and boys go wild, etc.

>>44246714
Appearance is just as much about knowing how to use your looks as it is about having them.

>>44246714
Less time than that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408384/From-fat-fit-just-15-MINUTES-Personal-trainer-reveals-tricks-used-fitness-industry-easy-fake-transformation.html

I like that one of the changes was using a slimmer phone.

>>44246752
>Also interesting. Although depending on your definition of "doesn't stack" that could take a mortal heavy melee weapon from -1 to +1.
Right; I guess it'd be better to say "they stack, to a maximum of Defense +1."

>Resting Parry basically stops at 7, right? Att5Ability5Spec1 gives you 6, +1 for a medium weapon. Am I missing anything before you add charms?
No, that's basically correct, and that's exactly why they stopped the number there. I'm saying any further bonuses to Defense are where the system will start to screech at you.

>>44246714
Ugh, I hate that name for the stat.

Basically don't think of Appearance as an actual measurment of how attractive the character is, because that makes no sense. This is too subjective to gauge.

Think of it (and all attributes for that matter, but Appearance the most) as narrative tools. Your attribute determien what kind of a person you appear to be and the high ones determine what traits you want to be played up and which you want to be relevant to the game. Similarily a 1 in any attribute indicates that you're making a point of how bad you are at it and want it to be played up as well.

So basically, if your character has Appearance 5, they can look exactly the way you want them to look, they can be completely hideous, or even entirely unassuming, but for some reaosn, people they meet will have the exact taste that makes them think they are the most beutiful person on the planet. This solution is unintuitive, but it's better then trying to justify how apparently the entirety of Creation has one standard for beuty.

And it gives you a narrative explenation for being able to raise Appearance- people you now meet start to pay closer attention to you, perhaps the character is more renown and important and their confidence shines through them, or people simply start to notice things about them they never have before, maybe their battle scars are somehow attractive to the people around them or maybe they simply start meeting people who, for some reaosn, fin them attractive even if people they've me previously didn't.

Don't get bogged down in simulatonism, remember it's a story, treat it like one. With a healthy dose of suspention of disbelief.

>>44246818
Sounds fair. You're basically using the same dice pool at that point for attack and defence, but with a +1 parry vs a 0 to +5 bonus on withering accuracy.

>>44246873
I personally preferred the attributes nWoD used. Presence/Manipulation/Composure means you still get the issue of only really needing one of the two active statistics for a given character, but Composure would be the defence stat (which works well in Exalted because it's a natural stat for Guile). And looking sexy is an optional physical merit.

You also make sharp senses into an optional physical merit (WHICH IT IS, despite also having a Perception stat), and have Intelligence/Wits/Resolve for Mental. The physical stat holy trinity doesn't change, though.

>>44246927
>optional physical merit (WHICH IT IS, despite also having a Perception stat)
Huh, weird. It's almost as if the merits that aren't background merits are basically 100% retarded. Weird.

>>44246927
>You also make sharp senses into an optional physical merit (WHICH IT IS, despite also having a Perception stat),
Except for the part where nWoD still uses Wits+Composure exactly where Perception would be used.

>>44246873
Anon, hideousness is now covered by a free inherent merit Hideous which makes your Appearance rating mean how strikingly ugly you are that it gives a bonus to Intimidation actions.

So Appearance 5 can be you're one of the most attractive beings in existance, or the most hideous.

Also. the narrative is determined by the results of the dice, not the amount of the dice pool. So if you have an Appearance 3 character, but roll no successes in using your Appearance on a person, it's less likely you failed and more likely the person did not find you attractive, accounting for the different standards of beauty.

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stat him /exg/

>>44246873
Could you emulate/run with Effective Appearance 2 even if your actual is 5?
Or would that require rolls or something like disguise?

>>44247047

Scarlet Empress in reverse-drag.

Or a War-Supernal Abyssal if you ask Japan.

>>44247047
Best anime, Season 2 when
Oda-chan~

>>44247000
>Also. the narrative is determined by the results of the dicel.

No, the narrative is decided by the players and GM. Dices are used to up the tention and keep the element of chance in. Dices never EVER determine the flow of the narrative and if they do, the story is essentially ruined and you might as well start fromscratch.

>>44247387
>Dices never EVER determine the flow of the narrative and if they do, the story is essentially ruined and you might as well start fromscratch.
I... What? Do you preplan the direction of the story before the game starts?

>>44247086
It should require major effort. If you put 5 dots into the Appearance of your character, you've made the choice to make the fact that you seem beutiful to everything around you the major part of your character. If you now want to back dwon on that, it shoudlr equire actual effort on your part, the same way it would actually require effort for a god-king with a perfectly chiseled body and shining abs of awesome pretend to be an old decripit weakling.

Attributes differ from skills in that they ALWAYS have a visual component and they are a double-edged blade. You telegraph to the ST which are important to the narrative of your character by how many dots you assign to them. If you want to go back on that narrative, that creates an oportunity for even more interesting story-telling so I would definitely require my players to put some effort in.

>>44247387
Anon, the players can manpulate the dice in whichever way the game allows and they can determine what is rolled for, possibly directing the narrative but the dice still determine the results.

If you fail at convincing brokering peace between two tribes to fight a greater threat, the story will follow the two fractured tribes having to deal with the threat and each other, as opposed to the two tribes united fighting the threat. That failure is due to the results of the dice.

>>44247414
... Don't you?

I mean ok, I know there is this trend in Exalted community where STs just leave all the work for the players and "react to their actions" but I preffer a more hands-on aproach. I know too well that players get bored if they actually have to take initiative and they can't really be trusted to have a grand scheme of they own on what to do and in what order.

I personally don't understand how any fun session can come about with an ST so lazy that they have no idea where the story is supposed to be going and can't keep the players on their toes, always reacting to what's happening around them.

A moment of respite should be rare and short. Otherwise it's devalued.

>>44247540
>I personally don't understand how any fun session can come about with an ST so lazy that they have no idea where the story is supposed to be going and can't keep the players on their toes, always reacting to what's happening around them.
Look, your players are lost without their ST to guide them but don't assume other groups have worse ST's just because the players are capable of driving the story themselves.

Seriously though, had an ST who railroaded like that and it was infuriating. I don't play games for the ST to vicariously write out their novel, I play games to interact with the world, change things and act with real agency.

>>44247475
See, this is weird to me, because as an ST I can do one of the two things:

1- Craft a storyline where the brokering the peace between the two tribes or failure at doing is a necessary prelude to the shitstorm that is the actual plot.

2- Craft a story in which I can let the chance do it's thing and see if they scucceed or not, but than the influence this has on whatever happens next is less impactful than if it was planned, simply because I already HAVE TO make some assumption about the plotline in the future.

So either dices don't matter and I might as well skipp the process or they DO matter, but the impact of the outcome is reduced by the sheer necessity of me planning ahead.

I can improvise, but at the end of the day, if the story is supposed to be interesting some planning and oversight has to be invested into it, otherwise it will come off as haphazard and random. A fiction isn't interesting if it's completely random.

>>44247639
So you railroad because you're incapable of planning rough outlines for a few basic outcomes and then improvising from there? And you call other STs lazy?

>>44247615
Oh I'm sure the players are more than capable of driving the story themselves.

It's just not my aproach is all. I feel like if they can drive it themselves, I am completely unnecessary. My only role is to make a story and direct the narrative and if I can't do that, if everything I'm for is a glorified narrator to provide exposition I lose interest.

>Seriously though, had an ST who railroaded like that and it was infuriating. I don't play games for the ST to vicariously write out their novel, I play games to interact with the world, change things and act with real agency.

All agency is in the end illusory. Your goal should be to create a good story, I'm completely certain that evry time you roleplay a character you start the game with some ideas of scenes you want to play out, themes you want to be present, ideas on how the story of your character should go and in what way is your character going to influence the events.

And if you don't, if you have NO idea what you want to happen and expect to be dropped in-media-res, without oversight and THEN expect the ST to not ralroad you and react to what you do, then there is no point playing with you because the game is going to be completely stale.

If you want to be the player with agency you better have a damn-good idea where the story should go. Because somebody has to, if the ST doesn't and the players don't it can only end in disaster.

>>44247639
You're the kind of ST where I suggest you write a book instead.

One of the most fun things in the world due to tabletop rpgs is seeing what your players do in the circumstances you have put them in By letting the actions of the players dictate the direction of the story, it will take you places you could not have planned.

The narrative never becomes random, because it develops organically by the actions of the players, and makes your worlds more engaging. They're part of the world, rather than actors in a play.

>>44247639
>the actual plot.

No.

What your players do IS "the actual plot." Period. There is no "real" story that they can fail to encounter or not, because they are the story.

If they fail to broker the peace? That's the story. If they succeed? That's also the story. What follows should absolutely be built on what the world would do in response to that, not out of some misguided goal to get the players to an imaginary "real story."

>>44247729
The Storyteller's role as a player is both the arbiter of rules and the controller of difficulties and obstacles. It's your job to be the world, but not neccessarily determine the path.

>>44247729
>Your goal should be to create a good story
That's called begging the question. I'd argue that roleplaying should be about creating a good experience.

If your players are enjoying your games, fine, but please stop acting as though there's only one correct way and that it's yours.

>>44247715
I don't rairoad, I craft compelling stories. "Ralroading" is a term created by whiny crybabies who think that the game can be both an interesting stories and that they can be left to their own devices while simultanously having no idea on what the story should be. I refuse to use it unironically.

Someone needs to have the oversighit in what's gonna happen. I am perfectly willing to hand over that oversight to my players, but no player I ever played with actually HAD an idea where the story should go. Except for one. Most fun I had in my life.

But the point is- the story must be choesive, otherwise it's random. A random story is not entertaining. SOMEBODY has to have an idea where to go with it.

And by all means, be my guest. Just remember that if you do you're apparently now the one who's "ralroading" except now you're railroading yourself. Good job matey-boyo.

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>>44247785
>I don't rairoad, I craft compelling stories

>>44247730
And I am pretty sure you don't have much experience running games do you? If I come off as pretentious or "railroad-y" it's merely because of my experience with the people I play with.

>The narrative never becomes random, because it develops organically by the actions of the players, and makes your worlds more engaging. They're part of the world, rather than actors in a play.

And that is why I know you don't have experience. Because this is escapisim, it's playing RPGs for power fantasy and escaping into fictional reality. It's playing RPGs to not have to put up withd ay-to-day bullshit.

And I am not interested in playing with people like that. At all. I am solemnly uninterested in people who don't want to make a good story, but who want to be only immersed in fiction.

There are books for people like that, movies, computer games. I need partners to craft stories.

>>44247785
>who think that the game can be both an interesting stories and that they can be left to their own devices while simultanously having no idea on what the story should be.
Literally everyone else you're talking to plays way and have a great time.
>Someone needs to have the oversighit in what's gonna happen. I am perfectly willing to hand over that oversight to my players, but no player I ever played with actually HAD an idea where the story should go. Except for one. Most fun I had in my life.
And we're back to your players being unimaginative.
>I don't rairoad, I craft compelling stories.
Are you actually just fucking trolling us here? Are you Parry 13 guy?

>>44247785
Nah, you're being a railroading faggot.

Havings ideas for possible directions are great. In the case of Exalted I get in my head the kind of story I want to tell, and where it's set. Characters are made with the kind of story in mind and from the characters I build the details of the world and ideas of what I can incorporate into the story.

I never write out a plot with plot points or story beats, that shit grows through play.

>>44247769
>That's called begging the question. I'd argue that roleplaying should be about creating a good experience.

Then we have nothing to talk about. My fundamental assumption is that RPGs are the media designed to facilitate creating stories. The goal is to create a good story.

If you do not acccept this premise, we can't have a conversation because I will not change my mind on that.

>>44247855
You assume too much.

I've run many successfull games, and have crafted great stories with the help of my players.

I did not write a story for them to just experience, like you.They live out the story through the characters. I try for as immersive gameplay as possible. You try for actors.

Go write your stories, you railroading faggot.

>>44247913
>Then we have nothing to talk about.
I'll shut up about it if you will.

>>44247860
>Literally everyone else you're talking to plays way and have a great time.

How much you're losing on by your on missguided choice is trully saddening to me.

>And we're back to your players being unimaginative.

We all have our corsses to bear.

>Are you actually just fucking trolling us here? Are you Parry 13 guy?

'Course I am, I like these threads.

>>44247957
>How much you're losing on by your on missguided choice is trully saddening to me.
Wow, you pretentious shitbag.

>>44247468
So you can't go Zoolander in that how your hair is changes your app from 2 to 5
(In how his Magnum was wtfbbqbtflgorgus and stop a shuriken while the others were just great)
???

Well no, I suppose that's really be up go the GM if he was up to that kind of stupid shit k guess

Any interesting homebrew evocation trees yet?
I'm designing a weapon for a game, looking for some inspiration.

>>44248753
The only real 'tree' I've written so far was based on the Leak, so it doesn't have things organized how they would be now, but here you go.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w4KjSP6TdYvcaVbPO7uEb95xmOyRrtNH7HqbLILV_5A/edit?usp=sharing
If I were to remake it, now, I'd probably scrap the defensive half of the tree, and focus on the ice/lightning shit.(With an attunement bonus of extra accuracy or damage, probably)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aptPOfbOCH0
Would Kiva be an Abyssal?

>>44251038
In the previous edition I would call him an Abyssal with Unconquered Hero's Faith, but now I dunno.

>>44230734
Just say that's what you're doing with Steel Devil Style. Or invent each of the lightsaber forms as a Style, but STs won't like that, so give them fancy names instead. Form VII could be Octopus Style, for instance, or Shark Style, while Makashi could be Cobra Style reborn. Jar'Kai as distinct from juyo might be Butterfly Style. If you don't like animal names, try something like Starving Hurricane Style.

>>44240112
What everyone is trying to tell you, gently, is that you are a very strong autist and a discredit to the career of any ST so weak-minded as to allow something like you a seat at the table. Now, this is 4chan, so you're probably here from the Pathfinder General to troll or something, but if an actual person said the things you said, they would basically be worthless to the community.

For example, if a person was literally unable fully read and internalize the Exalted 3E core and understand what "clawed gauntlets" are going to be, there's no future for them in roleplaying, they don't have even a first-time girlfriend gamer's tier of imagination and creativity, and they won't be able to effectively participate (or even enjoy, so why would they bother) in the average game of Exalted.

This is a game where the ability to form interesting narratives and engage in scene-editing are literally core mechanical competencies represented by stunts.

>>44253414
>For example, if a person was literally unable fully read and internalize the Exalted 3E core
The guy wasn't pretending to be unable, just unwilling, and frankly, so am I.

When it comes to the twilight's anima power; why doesn't it work on least gods and ghosts?

>>44253414
>if a person was literally unable fully read and internalize the Exalted 3E core and understand what "clawed gauntlets" are going to be, there's no future for them in roleplaying
I'm currently running the game you wish you were playing in, and I haven't read -- much less internalized -- all of the 3E core.

It's mostly garbage. As usual, the quality of the ST and the players is in the strength of their imaginations.

>>44253820
You don't need to read, much less internalize all of the book, but refusing to read even the basic rules that you need to know to run the game is more then a little problematic.

>>44253743
>least gods
Because they're not Infernals, who own gods by original right but probably can't touch elementals. Also least gods are usually asleep inside objects, but you mean like field guardians and shit I'm assuming, just really, really lesser gods.

>ghosts
Because they're not Abyssals.

>>44254035
> Also least gods are usually asleep inside objects
I think 3E moved away from giving literally every chair, tissue and blade of grass its own least god. Small gods are still a thing, but more on level of individual houses, forest paths etc. Which is a good thing that prevents Twilight from making starmetal factory by extracting least gods of rice grains and throwing them into a smelter.

So does Flowing Mind Prana give its targets amounts of (normal) experience when you use it to teach other PCs, or is it just a "training effect" that you cause by spending experience which causes them to learn the things you want to teach them? What happens when you use it on on npcs?

>>44254035
I just have a character who has no interest in demons or elementals; but is pretty tied up in Godly business, undead/the Ancestor Cults.

>>44254212
It basically just lets you pay the costs of raising attributes or abilities (or later, spells and charms that you know) on their behalf. If you use it on your circle's Zenith, you could pay a few experience points to up their Lore rating even if they don't have the experience to spare, but they still have to invest the usual training time to do it. I don't know many people who track individual experience gains for NPCs, but if you spent the XP on teaching an NPC I'd give them the appropriate trait after the training period as usual. In that case, it's a plot excuse to accelerate their progression past the usual rate, and a way to guarantee they make those leaps in skill if the two of you put in the time.

>>44243786
>Are there any assassin demons besides the bisclavaret?
Asking this again just in case it was time or slipping through the cracks that lead to no answer, rather than the answer being "no."

>>44254895
the spider demons can probably assassinate, too. And Neomahs are sometimes used as courtesan-assassins, seducing people and then killing them in bed.

>>44253743
Alright then what would be a good elemental choice to fight off ghosts and zombies?
Are there salt elementals?

>>44255139
Probably. Not statted, but they'd come under Earth, and likely be very spiteful creatures.
One could even call them salty.

>>44255309
>>44255334
This is just sad, anon.

>>44254035
Well, you can get involved with the local spiritual scene, but you can't anima-bind gods and ghosts. Ephemeral Induction Technique lets you make a god your familiar, though - although it's a waste after Essence 1, once you can make loreleis and cataphracts.

>>44255361
shhhh, they're deleted now

>>44254895
Bisclavaret are shitty assassins. Anuhles (demon spiders) are good at it, although the varieties described as such are statless. Gethin are good at it. Amphelisia are pretty decent choices. Luminata in wilderness settings. I think baby tinsiana? Maybe? Oh, and decanthropes. Decanthropes are great, they can be someone's entire royal guard and then stab them.

>>44255452
>Amphelisia are pretty decent choices.
Oh, that's perfect for what I need. Thanks, anon.

Show of hands, who else missed that they introduced a new language with e3, Dragontongue?

>>44255801
Wait, what?

>>44255907
page 163, Dragontongue:
Dragontongue: Derived from recovered elements of a
priestly language that was lost during the shogunate,
luminaries of House Mnemon birthed and spread this
language over the course of two centuries. It is a mix of
Old Realm and High Realm, with elements of a lost sho
gunate tongue, and excludes the mind from the wider,
more dangerous concepts inherent to Old Realm, keeping
a person in mind of the Dragons, the Poles, the natural
world and the Perfected Hierarchy. It is a beautiful lan
guage more than a scholarly one, and even in satrapies
which have been thoroughly suppressed by the Realm,
there is a rush by savants and poets to learn this language
of poets and princes. Its written form utilizes very chal
lenging yet beautiful brushstrokes.

I was reading up on Amphelisia, and guh. Check out this cool ass little tidbit from Games of Divinity: "This whisper contains secrets that the amphelisia cannot let itself forget." Sounds like an intriguing quirk for a first circle demon, right?

Guess what's not in the RoGD2's write-up?

2e. Reprinting 1e's fluff, but making it worse.

Christ.

>>44255979
Why tho?

Dynasts already had High Realm, and no one but scholars and sorcerers use Old Realm. So why create a language that is "Like Old Realm but more Immaculate-ish"?

>>44256656
It's Newspeak, dude.

>>44256708

I get that, but it still makes no sense

The Party creating Newspeak was an integral part of of controlling the masses. Most people on the Blessed Isle don't need to drink the Kool Aid because they brew it and in Satrapies it says "poets and savants" rush to learn it. Newspeak was effective because EVERYONE used it, Unless Mnemon can make this as ubiquitous as Low Realm or Rivertongue it sucks as a Newspeak analogue. And the way its presented as being all ornate and beautiful makes that unlikely

>>44256891
Newspeak was never meant for the masses, anon. Just for the Party men.

Any quests that star an infernal and/or use Qwixalted rules?

>>44256656
Because it's pretentious and hipster as fuck, whereas High Realm is just a language. This is a language for being a shithead about language, like the liberal arts version of lojban. It's glorious.

Hey everybody I've got a question. I'm playing a character in a mortal game who's going to eventually exalt into a Solar. Now, it would probably make the most sense for my character to have supernal socialize but the multiple personalities really don't make sense for the character to have.

Is it still worth taking supernal socialize or should I look into another skill? I was thinking of maybe taking Bureaucracy.

>>44254168
Nah, they are still here, but made irrelevant.

And not for preventing Twilight from mining least gods, but for preventing Zenith from convincing a boulder to move, the door to open, the armor to not intercept, etc. When everything had a sentient god attached, you could sweet talk your way into warping reality.

Not really a problem though. I have literally never seen any player who tried to social attack least gods, but Holden is very big on perceived issues he is the only one to perceive.

>>44259810
I thought least gods were removed because they didn't do anything important whatsoever and basically didn't have a reason to exist.

Really, what's the point of giving every object a god of basically zero power?

>>44259586
Socialize isn't about having multiple personalities. The Persona section of the tree is about being SO GOOD at pretending to be someone you aren't, that as far as anybody is concerned you actually are that person.

Take Supernal Socialize if you want to take it; you don't have to take the Persona charms immediately/at all unless you want to. They could be pretty useful, though, if you ever plan on engaging in social combat.(Even outside of pretending to be other people, those charms let you give off a false impression of what you believe in, which gives you an edge in social influence situations.)

>>44259833
Consistency? It's a very fun idea, also it's very Shinto. A least god can then grow into a big god if an object is revered enough, and that is 100% Shinto.

Really, not having a least god would break some settings assumptions. They just need to be made irrelevant (because if you can target them, then you open a whole can of worms).

>>44259833
It's just a neat little setting tidbit.
It also makes sense when you think about how gods work; the goddess of that forest didn't just *appear*, she was promoted to that rank after decades of being the goddess of an acorn/a sapling/a tree.

>>44259871
>>44259875
I guess that makes sense. I definitely agree with the first posters idea. They can be nice as something in the background but they shouldn't really have a mechanical effect.

So this is a buff jacket?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buff_coat

>>44261240
Roughly the same idea, but in a more oriental cut and made of even thicker material, I think.

>>44259839
Do you remember what other personas dkd/experienced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KINJFwnVE
And this is why Hibiki would fit really well into Exalted.

>>44261346
I got drunk last night and ended up watching this on /wsg/ over and over for about two hours. It's mesmerizing.

Also, why is Zanki-San so butthurt about the armored guitarist?

>>44262048
>Also, why is Zanki-San so butthurt about the armored guitarist?
Not a clue, I was just posting it because the idea of a group of Exalts performing in such a way that they vibrate a Behemoth to pieces is funny to me.

>>44260012
To be honest, they didn't explicitly say anywhere that Least Gods don't exist. They just never mention them. You can still have them if you like the concept, but keeping them just as a bit of flavour that you can't easily interact with is probably for the best. Like the Yozis.

>>44229433
What the hell is Gilgamesh holding in OPs pic? The snake thing.

>>44262164
It's either Shiki or Tohsaka.

>>44262342
It's Tokiomi.

Is Venomous (***, the acid spit) ever going to actually be useful for my Solar Exalt in a combat situation?

>>44263570

Poison is hella nasty in 3e, and Venomous specifies that it's a CONTACT poison, so getting to apply it as a gambit is fucking great against high-Hardness enemies if your ST (not unreasonably) demands that injury poisons require an actual injury to have effects.

Plus, even against a super-Resistance Solar, you can be sure that your personal toxin is one he hasn't encountered before, whereas it's a good bet that he's dribbled every other poison on the market into his eyeballs to build up his repertoire of immunities.

>>44263570
Poison is like 3e's version of aggravated damage. It's a total bag of dicks.

>>44263604
>>44263628
Is venomous spit going to be... Archery? Thrown?

>>44263655

Thrown, like it says in the mutation.

>>44263663
Oh, durr. Sorry.

>>44263663
All we need is a mutation that lets you grow mouths literally anywhere on your body.

What ability/charm do I pick up to have an affinity for animals? I don't want a familiar, I just want animals to like me and maybe do stuff for me once in a while.

>>44263778
Survival

>>44263778

Survival. Friendship With Animals Approach. That's it.

Solars don't really go all-in on the whole Disney Princess thing; they get enough to tame the wilderness in service to themselves and then move on. That said an ST probably wouldn't stop you from expanding on that, especially in the "maddened by pain, hunger, etc." clause.

>>44263802
He could use a working to let him speak to animals and then use presence to command them

>>44263810

That probably won't work out as well for him as just expanding on Survival's tree. Speaking to animals doesn't grant them the intelligence to understand shit for dick, Presence or no Presence.

>>44261329

Yes, because you're the same person. It's like Bruce Wayne and Batman.

>>44264028
Buchi Wa-ne cannot be the Dark Warrior of Sol, he told me the very idea was preposterous.

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Hi guys.
I'm going to be starting my first Exalted game soon, starting as a mortal pre-Exalt. The guy I'm playing - a literally gigantic (and hugely obese) merchant-king with a tongue of honey - has a two point Follower Merit. I've decided to give him a large circus band that act as his front men; announcing his presence to a region by day, pick-pockets, swindlers and burglars by night.

I want them to have a Riverlands theme in how they perform and are named, but I have little experience with the Riverlands culture. Could you guys maybe give me some resources to work with, or advice/suggestions as more experienced players? Thanks.

>>44265276
Riverlands are basically greyhawk

>>44265302
I'm not sure what you mean by that. What would a circus look like in Greyhawk?

>>44265432
Comically bad.

I'm working on a character who is a former assassin who has rededicated their life to justice, and I'm trying to figure out what to do for a defining intimacy. I have "I must seek redemption, even if it means my death" right now, but that feels kind of weak. Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

>>44266527
"Fuck criminals"

>>44266527
"Killing isn't actually cool."

"There is no redemption, but not pursuing it would make my sins even worse."

"I must turn others away from the path I walked before they're past the point of no return."

"I will bring despair for the wicked."

>>44266527
Depends on the specific flavor of redemption you're going for. "Everyone deserves a second chance" could give you an 'If I did it, so can you' kind of feel, possibly with '...but not a third' if you want to be a hardass about it. "We all pay for what we've done" might be more flexible; you're atoning for what you did constantly, while others can pay in various ways up to and including their lives - and if no one else is collecting their due, it's your responsibility.

>>44266527
"I am ashamed of what I did" if you want secondary Defining Principle giving you more context.

>>44229433
Lol, I read that as 'Reborn god heroes in a world that turned them on'

>>44262160
>they didn't explicitly say anywhere that Least Gods don't exist.
I don't think the corebook should ever waste wordcount stating that things don't exist.

>>44268399
This sort of "logic" led to "it exists until 3e says otherwise"`

>>44268431
Not really.

>>44266874
Wasn't there a charm in some 2e splat that let you have sex with entire terrain features? Because yeah, having sex with terrain features is something exalted can do. I don't mean just 'sticking your dick in some nearby crevice', I mean giving a volcano such a massive orgasm that it has a massive eruption and covers the nearby countryside and towns in wave after wave of burning lava.

>>44269615

It was an artefact, it was part of the April Fools splat.

>>44270418
Still totally something a first age solar would do. Poor, poor Munaxes.

Which charms are incredibly useful for a starting solar regardless of build? 2e had ox body as highly recommended.

>>44270902

In general:
1) You'll want to be able to fight at least reasonably well.
2) You'll want to be able to social at least reasonably well (have a high Guile and/or Resolve, if nothing else).
3) You'll want something to spend Solar XP on, be it Sorcery, MA, or Evocations. You can get by only spending your SXP on dots, but it's not the best use.

But honestly there's no Charms that are incredibly useful "regardless" of build, since there's so many different ways to go about things. I guess Awareness is a generally pretty good investment, since perception checks always useful + init. Melee is the take-all-comers-does-nothing-special combat ability, if you want to invest in only one, same with Presence for social, but both of those miss out on the spikes of power and special abilities the others in their category get to have.

>>44271014
Thanks, that's quite helpful.
What would you suggest a fighter dip into for social defence?

>>44271064

Probably Integrity, since it has some combat utility woven in and some fun 'bitch PLEASE' effects for defense.

Socialize could also be used, pumping your Guile into the stratosphere until nobody can tell what Intimacies you actually have, but has less combat benefit.

>>44271132
What's up with Integrity's bridge charms though?
If I have the non-integrity charm pre-reqs, do I need the Integrity dots too?
I assume it just lets me skip buying charms in the Integrity tree.

>>44271182
>What's up with Integrity's bridge charms though?
>If I have the non-integrity charm pre-reqs, do I need the Integrity dots too?
Yeah, you still have to meet the dot prereq.
>I assume it just lets me skip buying charms in the Integrity tree.
Correct.

Basically a Bridge Charm is "You can follow the Integrity tree OR substitute in N other Charms from other Abilities. If all the N Charms were caste/favored, you can get the Integrity Charm at caste/favored XP cost. If Integrity itself is caste/favored, cut N by half."

Isn't Fate-Shifting Solar Arete incredibly broken?

>>44274569

Yes, which is why they are nerfing the fuck out of it

>>44274569
>>44274655

It's mildly powerful for its intended use (one roll per day), but on extended rolls (where squeezing out an extra 0.4EV on every roll can easily make a 500% difference) is where it gets retarded.

I applied a further nerf to it, but mostly because I'm a theme autist, only letting it apply to rolls the Solar either has Ability 2 or less OR doesn't apply their Excellency, letting it represent the luck of the rogue.

Any idea if the public release for 3e will actually fix even some of the mistakes in the backer version? Also eta?

>>44276772

That was literally the only reason for doing a separate backer/formal release, so yes, they'll probably make some changes between now and when it's done.

>>44276806

Thank god. I'm late to this, but the fonts and background artwork are pretty dire.

>>44277308

I liked 2e's layout and page design more.

>>44270481
I'd feel more sorry for Lookshy.

Wasn't there a way to for Dragon-blooded to get extra elements at Essence 5 or something in E2? How does that work? Where can I read about it?

>>44279365
Dreams of the First Age had a Charm for it.

Is Mind Hand Manipulation's Defense Value really supposed to be (Will+Occult) and not (Will+Occult/2)?

Because holy shit that's a high Parry value (14 on the NPC I'm statting).

>>44280244
Can't enhance it with charms, not even excellencies because WP isn't an attribute.

Is there any explanation for why there haven't been any Exigents in a long while? It seems like a weird and pointless bit of fluff to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

>>44280244
I treat it as (Will+Occult)/2, and I think it is, since Exalted 2e has the oddest habit of listing Defense values that exist for the sole purpose of being divided by two.

Yeah. I know.

>>44280678
The Exigent Flame is kept by The Unconquered Sun. When he turned his face from Creation he took too the Flame lest the immoral Solar Exalted seek to claim it as well as his name.

Now the Solar Exalted return and The Unconquered Sun once again looks upon Creation, and with him returns the Flame as a beacon of hope.

>>44280702
Creation isn't the UCS's responsibility, though. He delegated that to the Exalted Host after the Primordial War (in part) because the whole damn reason he rebelled was so he could stop micromanaging it and retire to play backgammon with his old buddies.

>>44270902

Get really good at one form of combat. Just ONE. You're a pretty lousy Solar if you can't even defend yourself against Dragon-Blooded. Remember, the signature character diplomat (Swan) was a master of Snake-style, and had a heart-exploding combo.

Whatever else you have to do, you'll always need to have to fight.

>>44280928
He's the King of Heaven. He has his responsibilities, even if Solars were supposed to manage Creation as a whole. When they started to invoke his name without actually asking him for advice then he went all "screw this shit" and withdrew. That means no Exigence for lesser gods.

Quick question: how many of the Incarnae has the Unconquered Sun had sex with? Has he had sex with Gaia? Any notable gods or goddesses?

>>44280991
Is picking Archery alright as your sole combat style, or will you get fucked by anything that can get close?

>>44280991
>Get really good at one form of combat
I would say that it is not strictly necessary. Just make sure that you can defend yourself. Things like Dodge Excellency, Shadow Over Water and Excellent Strike are enough for you to win with most mortals and not-die agaisnt more potent enemies. No need to take 5 dots and 6 Charms if combat isn't your speciality.

>>44281031
As many as you like.

>>44281043

Archery works. I mean, I would encourage you take Dodge as well, but at least have one combat skill. ALL of the combat skills are really good in Exalted, and your Solar Charms fuck people up.

Don't be the guy who can't contribute anything when the Wyld Hunt shows up. At the very least, you need to be able to defend yourself long enough for the Dawn Caste to show up.

If you're a Twilight, you need to get far away enough so you can teleport out.

>>44281031

Well if it wasn't for Saturn fucking things up every time, Venus would've had him marry all five of the Maidens.

>tfw you want to marry the master of creation and have orgies with him and your four sisters
>the stupid goth sister keeps being a contrarian bitch and says no every time he proposes to her
>everyone else said yes WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM SATURN

Is it worth using BP to increase attributes at chargen in 3e, or are they better used for something else?

>>44281086
Just spend BP however you like, the BP/XP divide could never render your character less mechanically optimized at all, or if it did, it definitely won't matter.

>>44281102
>total lie

Incredible.

>>44281102
>the BP/XP divide could never render your character less mechanically optimized
It will make you less optimized.

>it definitely won't matter.
I woudln't use "definitely" but yeah, it will matter mostly if someone in your group minmaxes heavily or you care about being as optimal as possible. 3E isn't as imbalanced as 2E, you don't have to "win" chargen in order to stay alive.

>>44281270
>>44281323
So what are the most optimal things to spend BP on?

>>44281720
Getting as many attribute and ability dots to five as you can.

>>44280991
That is atually a lie and a bad one at that. Reed in the Wind is perfectly sufficient to keep a character wth 3 Dexterity and 3 Dodge alive againts all but apocalyptic odds as long as they're not alone against an army of Behemoths. Then it's simply a matter of getting out of trouble.

You don't need to be good at combat if your character concept doesn't support that. At all. Now obviously, if combat is supposed to be a big part of the campaign, it may not be wise to make a character not preparred for combat at all, but if it isn't, it doesn't have to be relevant at all.

That said, I've seen very few Exalted games that don't involve a whoooole lot of fighting and there's numerous reasons for that. For one engaging with mechanics is easier then being smart. Fighting is mostly about using mechanics and not being smart. Second, fighting is one of the few if not THE part of the game where Exalted outshine everything else. Everything can be a smooth talker, a good leader etc. Apparently nothing can kick ass as good as Exalts. I personallly see it as an oversight, but that's the way it is. And thirdly, combat is dynamic, talking hardly ever is. Obviously a fast-paced game will be more about combat then about talking.

>>44281043
Archery isn't good if you can't supplement it with something. You need Dodge or Ride (and Dodge is more flexible in general) to keep the distance. Archery is a really nice thing to have on the side, like Thrown, but it performs poorly if you don't take anything with it.

If you want something that is good on it's own, Martal Arts are probably best for that because styles usually have a mix of offense and deffense and they allow you to use multiple different weapons. Though requiring a 4 dot Merit to get it is a substential hurdle.

>>44281086
There are guidelines on how to spend BPs optimally in the character creation section.

Generally you want to spend them on skills and Willpower first. Attributes are of tertiary concern.

But yeah, it definitely isn't irrelevant how you spend them, you CAN cripple yourself by doing it badly, just not as much as you could have in previous editions.

>>44281720
Max out those dots.

If you aren't capping as many as you can at chargen, you're fucking yourself.

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>>44282165
>Generally you want to spend them on skills and Willpower first. Attributes are of tertiary concern.
Not true. Pic related.

>>44282204
Shit yeah, I forgot Willpower cost is now flat. Sorry. So yeah, raising attributes is ok.

It's interesting that getting the 4th dot of a terrtiary attribute is worth more then getting a 4th dot in a favoured skill. Good to know.

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>>44282107
Actually, none can be as a smooth talker or a good leader (considering the ability to lead, not decisions) as an Exalt either. You can Charm those to infinity as much as with combat.

The thing is, combat is an essential part of the game because there is a shitton of things that either want to kill you or are way too set on their ways for you to talk yourself out of it.

As long as you're willing to let your Dawn get to it, ok... untill your DM gets an Air DB archer to screw your day. It's not a modern world, it's a classic one, and in the end of the day no amount of smooth talking is getting that knife out of your back. But a couple awereness charms + defense ones do.

>>44282204

Let me see if I'm reading this right. The right the number in the rightmost column, the more economic it is to max it out. Therefore, if you want to make the most out of your BP, you want to max out your Tertiary Attributes, followed by your other Attributes, followed by your WP, is that correct?

>>44282384
>Let me see if I'm reading this right. The right the number in the rightmost column, the more economic it is to max it out. Therefore, if you want to make the most out of your BP, you want to max out your Tertiary Attributes, followed by your other Attributes, followed by your WP, is that correct?
Not really.

WP shouldn't really be considered until you've got all the Attributes you want at 5.

>>44282416

That's what I said. Mathematically speaking, you should go Tertiary Att. -> Other Att. -> WP. Though, now that I look at it, it's a bit better to get your abilities to 5 before anything else.

>>44282384
>Therefore, if you want to make the most out of your BP, you want to max out your Tertiary Attributes, followed by your other Attributes, followed by your WP, is that correct?
That depends, anon. Are your tertiary Attributes ones you'd want to max? Would you spend XP to max them if you didn't buy them up with BP? Buying things you don't actually want isn't really making the most out of your BP, however cheap that is. Also note that the table is about comparing BP and XP costs, that's all. If you want to have high Mental Attributes, you should still have them as your primary Attributes, as you get more dots to start with: XP/BP ratio being higher for tertiary Attributes doesn't really matter in that case.

I see a lot of discussion on the BP to XP ratio, but getting the most XP out of something isn't actually the most 'optimal' thing if those XP aren't doing as much as they could otherwise.

There's also a XP to utility/power ratio. I mean, imagine if there was a stat called 'bp/xp optimisation', that costs 1 bp to raise at chargen and 999 xp to raise during play. Its in-game impact is giving you +1 die on cooking once per season'. From a BP to Xp viewpoint, it would be the best way to ever spend your BP by an absurd margin, but that doesn't actually mean jack shit if the stat you get out if it isn't useful to your character.

So, tertiary attributes may be 'optimal', but are you actually going to use those, or would you much rather have something else and are just taking them to maximise your bp to xp ratio?

>>44282448

>Are your tertiary Attributes ones you'd want to max?

No, and I'll conceed to every point you made there. I'm just pointing out what's the best XP:BP ratio. I was just seeing if I was reading the chart correctly. Also, I still might pick primary Attributes over abilities, if only to get around training times.

Man, this conversation has made me imagine that my group did not do away with the stupid BP/XP divide. It truly would be terrible and awful and make an already frustrating-to-learn system more frustrating. Thank you so much Holden.

>>44282448
>Are your tertiary Attributes ones you'd want to max?
There should be one stat in your tert Attributes you want to max, regardless of what set it is.

So yes, you want to max one.

>>44282535
>There should be one stat in your tert Attributes you want to max, regardless of what set it is.
I'm not so sure. Yes, there's probably a stat you actually use among them, but that doesn't mean you want to max it. You don't need maxed dicepools in your secondary focus to be useful.

>>44281085
I quite like Saturn. She ain't no bitch, also she's cool. Saturn a best. Get out with your whore Maidens.

>>44282488
>I see a lot of discussion on the BP to XP ratio, but getting the most XP out of something isn't actually the most 'optimal' thing if those XP aren't doing as much as they could otherwise.

Then it's good that they do.

>There's also a XP to utility/power ratio. I mean, imagine if there was a stat called 'bp/xp optimisation', that costs 1 bp to raise at chargen and 999 xp to raise during play. Its in-game impact is giving you +1 die on cooking once per season'. From a BP to Xp viewpoint, it would be the best way to ever spend your BP by an absurd margin, but that doesn't actually mean jack shit if the stat you get out if it isn't useful to your character.

Then it's good that no stat actually works like that and spending bp optimally translates directly to efficency during the game.

>So, tertiary attributes may be 'optimal', but are you actually going to use those, or would you much rather have something else and are just taking them to maximise your bp to xp ratio?

Yes. Like there's no argumet about it, there is no world in which, if for example you have 2 Int 2 Per and 3 Wits it would NOT be ridiculously useful ro raise Wits to 4. Some Attributes are better than other, an argument could be made that raising Appearance or Stamina isn't necessary, but if you for example have Dexterity 3 because you're playing full-on social /thinking character, you would be stupid, like brain-dead stupid, not to spend 3 BPs on Dex 4. It's just too good.

>>44282672
>ridiculously useful ro raise Wits to 4
it's two more dice on join battle, that's a whole 1 init. I wouldn't call that ridiculously useful.

>>44282672
>if you for example have Dexterity 3 because you're playing full-on social /thinking character, you would be stupid, like brain-dead stupid, not to spend 3 BPs on Dex 4. It's just too good.
of course, but you'll have Dex 4 or 5 even if Physical is your tertiary. And a full-on social /thinking character really won't get much use out of some random points of Strength or Stamina.

>>44282672
One dot in any Attribute is never, ever a huge enough deal to make you "brain-dead stupid" for not taking it. Well, maybe if you're a Lunar or other Attribute-based Exalt, but not for a Solar. Higher stats are always better than lower stats, obviously, but keeping your Dexterity at 3 is an entirely valid choice for a non-combat focused character.

>>44282717
You'd be surprised how many Charms use Wits for dicepool.

>>44282828
I mean... Maybe if you actually never have to engage in combat at all, ever?

>>44282850
Also if you engage in combat, ever, or even frequently. Whether you have Dexterity 3 or 4 won't make a dramatic difference for your combat capabilities. Again, higher stats are always better than lower stats, but a single dot in anything makes only a slight difference.

>>44282836
and how many of them are opposed rolls? Because that's generally the only ones where one more dice will make a huge difference.

>>44282875
No, you don't understand. There are only two states PC can find themselves in: optimized or SHIT.

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>>44283384
Kinda harsh. If your circle is not optimizing like that, it doesn't make that much of a diference.
Now, if everyone is optimized, gotta agree.

I'm curious now, how many XP would it be to create a char ir you optimized the dots to the max?

>>44245789
Maybe not absolutely impossible, but what are they going to do? They lack motes and they lack the ability to create artifacts of doom. I don't see how mortals could rise against any group with supernatural powers. And as far as I know that is appropriate considering that was the reason they were given Exaltation in the first place.

>>44283837
Battle groups, poisoning, spreading negative rumors/information to undermine an Exalt's, manipulating Exalts against one another, assassination in the dead of night, sorcery, etc.

Motes are not health any more. For the most part, Exalts are just rolling more dice than normal - they are still very much vulnerable to death by mortals, if the mortals are angry, numerous and/or smart enough.

>>44283837
Swarm them with overwhelming numbers, poison the ones who don't have Charms granting immunity to poison, kill some in their sleep. There are options.

>>44283813
>Kinda harsh.
I was making fun of optimizers that have to get that one extra dot or their character automaticaly becomes impotent cripple unable to do anything because they can't gimp Ahlat in two turns.

>>44282565
>I'm not so sure. Yes, there's probably a stat you actually use among them, but that doesn't mean you want to max it.
Don't be ridiculous.

If your tert set is Physical, you max Dex (because Dex). If your tert set is Social, you max Charisma (for telling the truth). If your tert set is Mental, you max Wits (for Join Battle).

>>44284679
Although Manipulation is arguably better in 3e.

But it depends on you. You want one of them capped in all likelihood.

>>44284679
>If your tert set is Social, you max Charisma (for telling the truth).
Wouldn't that leave you with 1 Appearance?

>>44284773
>Wouldn't that leave you with 1 Appearance?
No. Your tert attributes should be 5/2/2. What are you doing?

>>44284679

>2015
>People still unable to grasp that Attributes are descriptive and mechanical
>Optimizing

>>44284828
ok holden

>>44284406
And even for bull-busting, one die on your base pools is probably not make or break. You need some sort of doom-synergy to do that, and a slight pool variance isn't going to foil a combo that powerful, if such a thing exists to do so reliably.

>>44284796
You only get 4 points in terts. That's only enough to get one attribute to 5 if you leave the others at 1. Unless you, of course, spend 6 BP to turn the array into 5/2/2, but that doesn't seem worth it.

>>44284861
>Unless you, of course, spend 6 BP to turn the array into 5/2/2, but that doesn't seem worth it.
Except the math explicitly says it is worth it. It is the single most worthwhile thing you can do with BP.

Are you dense?

>>44284898
Why are we stopping at 5/2/2, then? Why aren't we spending the remaining BP to max out one more attribute for 5/5/2?

>>44284679
>If your tert set is Social, you max Charisma (for telling the truth).
What if I have the mute flaw? Owned.

>>44284828
Give me an incentive to not take Wits over the other two and Dex over the other two and I might believe you. I already have it for the social ones, I can basically pick whichever I want and be fine, can't see why the same couldn't be done with the other sets.

As for optimizing, don't make a system that rewards people for doing so and they will stop, it's really that fucking simple.

>>44284898
Well, not really. The 4th dot is worth it, the 5th one not so much. It's a good way to spend 3 BPs to be sure.

>>44285052
Because it's not mathematically worth it? Seriously, did you even take a glance at that chart or are you one of the people who go into total shut-down the moment someone suggests taking analytical aproach to any part of the game.

>>44284898
>Except the math explicitly says it is worth it.
Anon, in what way could math possibly say that it's worth it? Not every character needs to have a 5 in either Dexterity, Wits or any social Attribute. BP/XP ratio is not the only thing, or even the most important thing, that determines whether something's worth it or not. What your character wants and needs is the main thing. 'The math' matters when trying to figure out how to get what your character wants and needs without being wasteful, not when figuring out what you should get in the first place.

>>44285133
Did you even read it?
The chart clearly shows higher dots are MORE efficient use of BP.
5/5/1 is better than 5/3/3, and that's if you even want your tertiary attributes up that high

>>44285194
But 4th and 5th dots of skills are worth more then 3rd dots of attributes. Which is why you are stupid and your argumets don't work.

'Sides, skills are required for Charms. So you need 2 or 3 at 5 anyway.

>>44285249
Then why do you even need the 5/2/2 instead of 5/1/1 for attributes you don't use?
Spend all that BP on abilities.

>>44285168
Dexterity is vastly better than Strength and Stamina, Charisma/Manipulation have about zero synergy so you should only take one, and Wits, being the basis of Join Battle, is the single most important trait for any non-intellectual character.

Exalted 3e has ENORMOUS character creation problems resulting from there being just no real reason to mix and match shit. It encourages minmaxing, and BP/XP just pushes it further, since buying 5/1/1 and spending XP to make it 5/2/2 is objectively better than buying 3/2/2 and spending XP to make it 5/2/2. One is constantly asked to choose between what is mechanically optimal and what fits one's character concept.

When your Zenith does better with Social tertiary (5/1/1) and Physical secondary (1/5/3) than with Social secondary (5/3/1) and Physical tertiary (1/5/1), it really does show how broken the attribute system is.

>>44285293
<sigh> Because getting the 4th dot of a tertirarry attribute is still the best way to spend 3 BPs.

Getting a 4th dot of an ability is better then getting the 4th dot of a skill, but you can essetially do it once until you have to start spending BPs ineeficiently, unless you cripple your character with a 1 in one of your tertiarry attributes.

>>44285423
are you 13 mortal parry or valkyrie?

>>44285423
>nless you cripple your character with a 1 in one of your tertiarry attributes.
How is that crippling? My firewand user can do fine with strength 1, and what use does your average Twilight have for Charisma?

>>44285576
You know, it actually pains me I have no refutation for this? It's so annoying that you are right.

My understanding of what attributes represent gets i the way of how the system rewards people for abusing it.

>>44285637
How is 'characters can be ugly, or clumsy, or suck at speaking' abusing the system?

>>44285637
If only there was a Physical/Social/Mental model which had diverse attributes that didn't overlap that Exalted could use as a base. Alas, there isn't one.

>>44285637
1s aren't that bad, they're average or below average. It's just all the 4s and 5s that are way beyond their league warping your sense of scale.

>>44285673

If you're trying to jerk off nWoD's attributes again, you're a laugh and a half, because those attributes are even WORSE.

Have a Wits+Comp and a Res+Comp less than 6? Might as well reroll, because your ass is grass. Presence and Manipulation have exactly the same problems as Cha/Man, because they're the SAME SHIT.

Dex supremacy still in full swing, because guns, so just for even picking Dex as your attack stat, you're getting 2-5 free dice on attacks.

The assignments of attributes is also completely fucked. Wits to repair something? Really?

>>44285671
"Can be" isn't. "Should be to be optimally built" is. That's the painful part. Maybe it's just me but I don't see why it's good to encourage players to build characters with gaping flaws.

>>44285753
a 1 isn't a fucking crippled gaping flaw though, it's a slightly subpar part of their capabilities.

>>44285753
>Maybe it's just me but I don't see why it's good to encourage players to build characters with gaping flaws.

In theory because this is--among other things--a Greek tragedy system, where those gaping flaws are part of what undoes the character in the end.

In practice, as much as GMs are mewling pisspuddles afraid of letting the Dawn just kick something's ass for once, they're equally afraid of ever actually putting weight on those 1s on his sheet to make him suffer for it.

"But the specialist will just step in" bitch if you can't make "the Dawn just steps aside while the Zenith talks for him" lead to a player-induced TPK you're not even trying.

>>44285777
To you maybe. Not to me. This simply isn't the way I roll, so...

>>44285817
i'm talking about the actual game exalted, and its setting. they explicitly state:
>1 is poor, 2 is average, 3 is above average, 4 is exceptional and 5 is masterful
only a 0 would be fucking crippled horrible weakness dooming them to failure.
3e actually seems less harsh on players not being super optimally built without minor weakness, i don't want 1s treated as instant botching of any action you try.

>>44285802
>In practice, as much as GMs are mewling pisspuddles afraid of letting the Dawn just kick something's ass for once, they're equally afraid of ever actually putting weight on those 1s on his sheet to make him suffer for it.

You've met whimpy STs then, because I always do. In fact that's the only point of even having 1s. Like, whenever a plyer takes a 1 they are telling me they WANT me to fuck them over, why not oblige their masochism?

>>44285902
Yeah, exalted is all about solars getting fucked for their weaknesses despite their excellent mastery of something. Either through a means they're not suited, or through personality flaws causing that downfall.

>>44285869
>i don't want 1s treated as instant botching of any action you try.

There's an easy way to make it moot, y'know: don't put any on your sheet, you powergaming shit, and take a Flaw to represent your actual weakness.

>>44285960
i'm saying i'm trying not to build it super optimally covering all possible weakness by having no 1s.
and that 3rd edition seems to be less harsh and lethal than 2e was, allowing a character to have shortcomings without making their every action a farce.
a 1 is for something i'm bad at, a flaw is for something that is serious enough to continually fuck me over.
your harshness is what will cause people to create characters perfect at everything without problems.

>>44286038
>your harshness is what will cause people to create characters perfect at everything without problems.

Which might be worth consideration if it was something that ever actually happened in Exalted.

5/1s vastly outnumber 4/2s or 3/3s. The more I disincentivize 5/1s, the better.

>>44286155
>5/1s vastly outnumber 4/2s or 3/3s.
that's good. Exalted, and especially Solars, are hyper-specialised in their thing and roll over most opposition. The whole fun is in having weaknesses in your areas of competence, which is why everything encourages specialisation, from the BP system to Caste bonuses. You are literally encouraging people to play Exalted wrong, I'm afraid.

>>44286155
if my character knew how to dress well and was hot, but socially oblivious, i'd roll him as 1/1/3 or 4 if chargen would let me.
5s should be allowed for someone's excelling feature, 5/5/5 is far more unnatural than 5/1/1
1s should be a viable option for shortcomings, only harass a player with 1s if you know they powergamed it for sure.

>>44286258
I'd only let my players use 1s if it's a part of the character concept, AND there's no intention from the player to raise it anytime soon. Fuck optimization, you'll have at least one attribute at 5 and 2~3 abilities at it. Anything more and you'll have to get a damn nice reason for it. And if you decide to have a change of heart 3 sessions down the line... better be ready to roll again.

>>44286225
>You are literally encouraging people to play Exalted wrong, I'm afraid.
And yet you have an entire thread bitchmoaning about the incentives for 5/1s. Pick a side, /tg/.

>>44286258
>i'd roll him as 1/1/3 or 4 if chargen would let me.
Do you really think the game is going to flash a big red BANNED if you spend fewer dots than you're allowed? You joke?

> 5/5/5 is far more unnatural than 5/1/1
And both are worse than 4/4/4 or 5/2/2; I don't see any reason not to punish both. 5/5/5s are already punished for me by prohibitive costs for minimum gain, so that just leaves 5/1/1s to punish.

>only harass a player with 1s if you know they powergamed it for sure.
See, the thing about that, is I know they did, because they took a 1, instead of a 2 and a relevant Flaw. The only reason to take a 1 is because you want the benefit now and to push the drawback--if it happens at all--off to a future date. Taking a 2 and a Flaw means you're willing to gain NO benefit and a penalty now for the sake of the concept, for a theoretical reward in the future.

>>44286258
>5s should be allowed for someone's excelling feature, 5/5/5 is far more unnatural than 5/1/1

Maybe. But still less natural then 3/2/2 or Even 4/2/1. I'm not saying it's not fun to fuck over players who have 5/1/1 spreads but desu it seems people who do that actually don't do that with an intention of being fucked over and become super deffensive when their weaknesses are being brought up at all.

People playing Exalted are weird.

>>44286331
wow, you sound like a horrible ST.

>>44286356
if my concept was an archery with nearly unrivaled sight in most of creation, i'd want 5/1/1 if it fit my character to lack wits and intelligence.
that's a huge difference between making them actually retarded and with a derangement.
they shouldn't be treated like a drooling retard just because they're below average.
if i wanted that for the character concept, i would get the flaw, but a 1 is not some cop out that must be replaced by a flaw.

>>44286392
Are they? Tell me, if you played with that guy, would you actually take a 1 in your attribute because you want the weakness to be a part of the story of your character? If so then what he does is only facilitating it. If not then I have to ask you, are you actually believe your own argumets or are you just trying to rationalize it so that the ST allows you to do something for the sake of minmaxing?

I really want to believe it's the former, I really do, but I'm afraid I encountered too much of the latter.