Exalted General /exg/ Wyld Shaping Edition

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>>44195657
How far out should I go to make a *** artifact? What charms do I need to survive the trip?

>>44195657
So would copying someone be Awareness or Lore, do you think? I don't mean pretending to be someone, I mean literally copying their moves. I mean, "seeing what someone is doing down to the smallest detail" is awareness, but "learning really fast" is lore so there's some overlap, but which ability is the more important?

>>44196455
Perception or Wits + relevant combat skill

>>44195657
A budding Devil Tiger of mine, as a favor to a Solar Warlord, shaped him an enormous walled kingdom over the course of several years, complete with ziggurat and a complementary hellstrider. The walls could spawn stone soldiers that would patrol and defend the kingdom, while the ziggurat housed a pit that would 'bestow great power', when in reality it was just going to be a doorway to one of her daevas who would akuma-ize whatever was thrown in. In exchange, he impregnated her as part of a ritual to create her own Ligier-esque Daeva.

>>44196488
Yeah, that was my feeling too.

Especially when I remembered the Sharingan from Naruto, though I wish I had an example of this kind of power from a less-bad work of fiction.

>>44196566
Interesting. Sounds pretty high level, isn't the charm for investiture Essence 10?

>>44196566
Oh also how did he deal with Blasphemies?

any suggestions for a stealth-focused ebon shadow style unarmed assassin, with dodge, larceny and investigation?

>>44196712
Pick some charms from those abilities.

Give him some personality, intimacies and such, maybe a dot or two in an unrelated ability.

You're done!

>>44196678
It is. She was planning for the future. Maybe a little meta, but it was fun and I manipulated a Solar hunklord into doing my bidding, pretty much.
>>44196698
She kept as low-key as possible, but the Solar and his buddies defended her from Sidereal interference a few times. It wasn't a terribly serious game, so I don't think the ST really ever made me face the full consequences for the things I did, as long as they were cool enough. Or if he did, I always had an out. Even if that out was, at one point, summoning Ligier and begging.

>>44196763
i've got the character down, but which charms should i pick to be effective at this?
which suits supernal the most?
that's a lot of abilities to invest in and i don't want to stretch myself too thin

>>44196825
Oh boy, sounds like fun on the bun!

>>44196581
It's okay to be inspired by shitty shows.
1) You can probably do it better. The bar is pretty low.
2) Anyone who knows it well enough to call you on it is guilty of watching it also.

>>44196712
Can you not stat Batgirl II on your own? Here, I'll help.

Night or Dawn, depending on your taste
Dodge Supernal (her ability to read people)
Tiger Style, Ebon Shadow Style, and any others you can justify picking up, with a little bit of brawl and a smattering of Thrown and/or Melee if you really want her to be a catch-all
~3 Investigation
Lots of athletics + its charms, larceny, stealth, awareness, lore and linguistics optional,

Intimacies based around her father, mother, mentor, justice, and killing.

Silken armor, artifact tiger claws, lots of throwing knives... that should get you started.

>>44196933
i'm actually the other ebon shadow guy from last thread, not the batgirl one
but thanks, that's still quite helpful, i appreciate it

So, I have Exalted, Exalted 2nd Edition and a PDF of 3rd edition, plus a plethora of supplements for 1st/2nd edition. I've loved the setting of Exalted for years, but have never bothered to look at the rules since I've never had anyone interested in playing it. My group wants to give it a try in the new year though, so I need to know which edition has the best rules. By 'best', I mean most stream-lined, so shit doesn't get bogged down in combat.

>>44196978
I apologize for being a little nasty, then. If you're sticking strictly with Ebon Shadow and want to be purely unarmed/not use some kind of knife, then thrown is a really good back-up that meshes extremely well with ebon shadow and stealth in general. Blinding Battle Feint is a must, at the very least.

>>44196998

Third edition.

It's still a pretty hefty system, but it's the only one whose rules won't make you want to chew your own arm off to escape, like a trapped coyote.

>>44196998
Third Edition

It's not exactly rules light like >>44197019 said, but the rules work well now rather than against you.

>>44196998
Third edition, by far. Most 1e supplements are going to be better for flavor than most 2e supplements, since 2e was, to put it lightly full of retarded garbage that undermined everything interesting about the setting and turned everything into magitech beep boop robots and flanderized a bunch of shit too.

>>44196889
Yeah I know, I know. Frankly I haven't read that much of the series, I think I stopped pretty soon after the timeskip, but I do think Kakashi would be a pretty decent character to rip off. Supernal awareness with heapings of mindgames when fighting instead of just swinging your sword at somebody. Maybe I'll go and try my hand at homebrewing some copycat charms later.

>>44197005
no worries dude, still good advice
i keep seeing tiger mixed with ebon shadow, i'm willing to do that if there's a particular reason they work well together, might as well get more bang out of martial arts
am i really penalised for sticking to unarmed? i'd rather not waste it on tiger claw or thrown
my main worry is which skills to prioritise for staying alive in combat through stealth/dodge and landing surprise attacks

>>44197159
I advocate Tiger Style in general, it's cool and aggressive and strong, and since I thought you were going for Cass Cain, it'd fit. If you're just a sneaky sneak ninja, Ebon Shadow is fine.

You'll be fine unarmed, but having a knife for emergencies wouldn't hurt, you can use it with Ebon Shadow. It's a pity that you don't want Thrown, because of how well it synergizes, but it's by no means mandatory.

Dodge will keep you alive in combat pretty much by itself, moreso if it's supernal. Stealth + Ebon Shadow will usually keep you unseen.

>>44197189
i'll take all that into consideration and look further into my options, thanks anon

>>44197189
Not that anon, but how does Ebon Shadow work in play? I don't have a good grasp on how Stealth works once you're in combat.

>>44196455
Performance, there are charms that let you copy people's behavior.

Have the devs stated ANY plans at all for something like a storyteller's guide? I mean not for the dumb abbreviated stat blocks like 2e but legitimate advice for how to run a game like exalted. When the PC's are as powerful as exalts are it generally requires alot more heavy lifting on the ST's part, not to mention how many more situations can come up in exalted compared to other games. Shit like combat and large scale war campaigns and the various realms of existence and political concerns can all get pretty overwhelming pretty fast if you're new.

>>44197240
The purpose of Stealth in combat is to re-hide yourself, so you can attack from ambush. This has the mechanical effect of reducing the target's DVs, without any cap. So, Stealth is there to help you reduce their DVs.

In 3e, while in combat, this will be a Surprise Attack. This gives -2 DV. (pg. 242-243 of 3e)

Stealth is often rolled as DEX+Stealth vs PER+Awareness. In 3e you can expect most combat-oriented characters to have good Awareness, so successfully re-hiding without Charms won't be a cakewalk. There are a lot of environmental penalties your ST can put in your way to hamper or help you, too. Without Charms, trying to re-hide in combat is very difficult.

>>44197435
Is it something I flurry or am I burning an action to (maybe) lower other people's DV by 2?

>>44197386
Which ones? I can see charms for mimicking someone's voice and for getting really into character, but nothing that lets you copy actions and movements.

>>44197456
>Is it something I flurry or am I burning an action to (maybe) lower other people's DV by 2?

It's a combat action to establish stealth, but I think it can be flurried.

And it's a DV-2 AND becoming untargetable by them (short of AoEs or similar).

>>44197456
>Attempting to re-establish surprise is a combat action that cannot be placed in a flurry
You are burning an action to attempt to hide again.

When opening a fight with Stealth, rather than doing a Surprise Attack, you do an Ambush. An Ambush sets their DVs to 0 against the attack you launch from Stealth. This is of obvious benefit to virtually everyone.

Charms, of course, make the Solar much more powerful. Stealth, Awareness, and Thrown Charms let you stack up bonuses to make things very. Going into the specifics of those will take some time.

Remember this: the mechanical role of Stealth in Combat is to reduce your opponent's DVs.
But if your opponent can't see you, they usually can't attack you, too. So you protect yourself a bit while hiding again.

>>44197159

General consensus is that Tiger is great for killing enemies and Ebon Shadow is better for defence. Get ES Form online and use stealth to avoid attacks and Tiger to capitalize on surprise attacks.

I gotta say, one thing I love about Exigents is it makes it easier to come up with covers/explanations for Sidereal NPCs, when they have to talk to/use charms in front of the players.

>>44197532
>Charms, of course, make the Solar much more powerful. Stealth, Awareness, and Thrown Charms let you stack up bonuses to make things very. Going into the specifics of those will take some time.
Aren't you not allowed to pair normal Charms with MA Charms?

>>44197532
Are there at least charms that allow you to do it without taking a full turn? Or to exit stealth to attack and return to stealth after?

>>44197609
I'm not sure.
>In short—Martial Arts Charms are not compatible with Brawl, or any other combat Ability, unless they explicitly state otherwise.
Awareness isn't a combat Ability. Stealth may or may not be.

>>44197624
Probably. There are a lot of Charms. You can probably do anything.

>>44197624
If not, there's always homebrewing. Just make sure it fits the thematics you're brewing for.

How out of place would a peacekeeping order based on the original Jedi Code be?

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>>44197391

If I get Hideous and 5 Appearance, how can I make use of threaten and intimidation?
Are there other ways of making silent fear effects, like presence?

>>44197391

I kind of want to try making a guide after I'm done my Infernals homebrew. It's probably one area they had an egg on their face on and a big one (Say what you want about craft and other things, but at least it's actually covered by a system).

Their advice of "Oh ST advice is scattered in the book!" makes me go "Oh thanks! It's like L5R all over again in that I need to go across the entire book just to get what I want!"

>>44198151
>Expecting the "Organic" layout to have any sort of structural sense

>>44197624
There's one charm that lets you use Stealth instead of Awareness when rolling Join Battle, and if you beat the result of all opponents you get to hide instantly. Blinding Battle Feint It's called, in the Stealth tree.

>>44198210

Note that if you use this Charm, a lot of the JB-enhancers in Awareness turn off, since--while it's still a Join Battle roll--it's no longer an Awareness roll, and Supplemental Charms can only be used with the relevant Ability.

>>44198185
At 650 pages, it desperately needs to.

Otherwise it's just going to be that game nobody plays sitting on the shelf at stores where people laugh at its $100 pricetag.

>>44198146

Dawn Anima Banner buffs intimidate, Presence has intimidation charms such as Tiger's Dread Symmetry and Majestic Radient Presence, and is the intimidation ability in general.

>>44197624

Yes. There's like, a whole sub-branch of the stealth tree dedicated to this: Blinding Battle Feint -> Shadow Victor’s Repose -> Flash-Eyed Killer’s Insight -> Mind Shroud Meditation

>>44198185
...did they seriously use the word "organic" to refer to their layout?

Let's be real, here: no one in the history of time has read an RPG corebook from cover to cover straight through. It is a reference document, and should be arranged with the material for specific facts in easy to find locations. That means NOT tossing the figured stats across three different parts (and not even including them during the quick character creation help! For shame!) and dividing Intimacies in two, Holden!!!

I like Exalted.

>>44198594
Get out.

>>44197956

The Magistracy is basically this, although not every member is Exalted, and those that are are elemental rather than Force-themed.

>>44198536
>no one in the history of time has read an RPG corebook from cover to cover straight through.
i have

>>44198639
No you haven't, because you don't exist.

>>44198650
I have.

But it capped out at 100 pages.

Fucking hell if I read a 611 reference document front to back though.

>>44198536
I'm not sure how they could possibly mean "organic" in a good way, unless they mean that it is printed on paper.

Void zones are organic. Void zones are awful.

The organic food label is low quality food that is more susceptible to pests and rotting, which is marked up because the process supposedly gives it favorable jujus. Oh, and just incidentally, organic fruit juice is made from visibly rotten fruit. I have watched that shit on the conveyors and it is nasty.

Perhaps they are meaning that they just wrote the words as they came to mind and left them that way? That's awful too.

>>44197671
>Awareness isn't a combat Ability. Stealth may or may not be.
IIRC Vance said that "combat abilities" are abilities you can use to make an attack in normal circumstances. So Dodge, Stealth, Resistance and Awareness aren't "combat abilities" even though they are used frequently in combat. He made some other clarifications about MAs on OPP forums some time ago.

>>44198761
>Void zones are organic. Void zones are awful.
Gues what, you are also organic!

>>44198871
And if you'd seen the shit that comes out of my body, you'd realize that isn't a favorable recommendation.

>>44198912
You talk like I haven't seen my own shit or blood. Dunno where are you going with this "organic" rant.

Is there any big list of Intimacies somewhere I can nab from to round out my character concept?

>>44199268

1) Make a list of nouns and proper nouns in Creation.
2) Make a list of emotions.
3) ????
4) PROFIT.

Unless you mean the belief ones, those are harder to jigger out, since you need an actual character first. Though I get a lot of fun out of taking assumptions the fandom holds as sacrosanct and writing Intimacies to the opposite, e.g. "The Chosen should not rule." "Demonology is exploitative." "The Realm is a pretty cool guy."

>>44199268

Nope, you got to make that shit up. Intimacies are unique to each person, best you can hope for is to crib intimacies from the antagonist section.

What might an Artifact 2 pair of orichalcum spectacles be able to do?

>>44199617

Depends on what they were designed to do, hur.

Like, seriously, other than "minor supernatural benefit relevant to perception/sight in some way," everything else is up in the air.

At least give us a vague goal as to who or what the artifact is for.

>>44199268
Intimacies can be basically any personal beliefs or feelings towards anything, so that's incredibly broad. Personally I feel minor intimacies are good for making minor character quirks like "really likes mushy green peas" or "thinks wearing excessive amounts of jewelry is absolutely gauche".

>>44199311
>>44199326
>>44199999
Nah, I've got a bunch of intimacies already, I just feel like my character's a little flat and want to round things out. I was hoping somebody had made a big stupid list of example intimacies I could use to get inspiration but I guess not.

>>44200033
Well, I could make a few up, see if that helps a bit. Just give me a few moments.

Does the Bishop still have influence in the North?

>>44199922
That's why I asked what *might* an Artifact 2 pair of orichalcum spectacles have. I'm not looking for anything in particular, just some ideas you all can come up with.

>>44200033
>>44200129
>Never turn down hospitality
>My favorite color is green
>Eggplants are utterly horrible things and I don't want to eat them.
>Four Oxen's habit of tapping the bridge of his nose when he thinks is really annoying
>Free-form poems are not really poems at all
>There's always room for one more snack
>People place too much importance on the looks of their food
>Women clad in red are never good news
>Following the immaculate philosophy is good, but a good harvest is better
>That Rabar fellow is just a mortal, but he's got guts
>And so on

I'm Str 2/Dex 5/Stam 4 with a Dodge Supernal (Night Caste). I was considering taking Ebon Shadow Style and Serpent /or/ Tiger Style. Is this retarded and I should move shit around? If it's not retarded, is Serpent going to serve me better or worse than Tiger?

>>44197591

I'm not very au fait with Sidereals, but wouldn't creating a resplendent destiny that's the Exigent of some minor/unimportant/wholly imaginary god cause problems with the Beauracracy? Or piss *someone* off, at the very least.

>>44200237
The thing is, they *might* do *ANYTHING*.
>Eliminate penalties for long distant visual perception-based checks, in addition to giving a +1 or 2 to anything that wouldn't normally get a penalty.
>Allow the wearer to make perception+occult rolls to spot essence flows/immaterial beings, at a difficulty of (5-Essence).
>Give the wearer the ability to see in total darkness
>Give bonuses to resisting blinding effects/reduce the penalty from being blinded
Just to name a few I can think of.

>>44200605
Whether or not the destiny they're wearing is actually that of an Exigent doesn't really matter; as long as they can back up the claim with their own Charms, people probably won't ask twice.
(And I'm pretty sure Exaltations are outside of Fate, anyways)

>>44200623
>Be fitted with a microscopic essence cannon for eyelasering your enemies and uppity minions.

>>44200712
>2-dot artifact
>Having an essence cannon
Eh, wouldn't really be worth it. No Evocations, or anything.

>>44200623
>>44200712
These examples are perfect. If you still want more to narrow down the possibilities, maybe the spectacles would be for reading?

>>44200910

Speed-reading, seeing where a text has been altered, reading through languages or ciphers, knowing a text's true author, etc, etc, etc.

>>44201085
Reading contracts?

>>44201186

"Exposing loopholes" is technically a valid power, but it'll start arguments about what is and isn't a loophole. "Exposing deceitful wording" might work better, boosting Read Intentions attempts on the text to see what they're REALLY trying to accomplish through the contract.

>>44200910
>>44201085
>>44201186
>>44201267

Oh my god, people are actually coming up with valid and thematic powers for a fucking pair of magical reading glasses.

I love you guys.

>>44200033
Well one thing you can do is keep the same intimacies, but word them in a more evocative way

If I write a really good poem and give it to somebody to read, and they read it, is that an Inspire action with Cha + Linguistics or what?

>implying there are any rules on what to roll for anything to do with social.

>>44201816
>inb4 craft (poems)

>>44201816

Well what were you INTENDING to do with the poem?

Is it a poem that's just generically, wholeheartedly sad? Yes, it'd be Cha+Ling to Inspire sadness.

Is it a deceptive poem about how the Realm is awesome? Man+Ling to Instill an Intimacy of "Realm (Awe)."

Is it an honest poem trying to get someone to fuck you? Cha+Ling to Persuade them to fuck you.

>>44201267
Maybe they could perfectly appraise the intentions behind a written agreement?

>>44201910
>Is it an honest poem trying to get someone to fuck you? Cha+Ling to Persuade them to fuck you.
Should be App+Ling.

What stops someone with the ability to shape the Wyld strolling out of Creation to make their own, with hookers and blackjack? Or expanding off a First Age manse with Reality Stabilisation Anchors lost in the Deep Wyld or something?

>>44201958
The Fair Folk and other Wyld dangers. Also time. That's it, really.

Where are the rules for unarmed attacks?

>>44201916
2-dot artifacts generally don't "perfectly" do anything unless it's not a very significant something.

>>44201958
There are bubbles of reality out in the Wyld, left over from various points and Wyld-explorers in Creation's history, but they can't ever be Another Creation, because Creation is definitionally unique, and imposes itself as the center of the Wyld.

>>44202018
Can you make people for your cool new island of reality in the Wyld, or do you have to steal them from Creation?

>>44202027

Page 582, the Unarmed weapon. That's it.

>>44202052

Wyld Shaping Technique can create people, I believe, and even if not, other magic could certainly suffice.

>>44202052
Making people is actually super easy.

>>44202052
In 2e, you definitely can. Haven't read 3e's Wyld Shaping, though.

>>44202075
>>44202076
That's... incredibly lame, actually.

>>44202098

Keep in mind that "fuck off into the Wyld to make your own paradise" is 1) basically admitting that all of Creation's problems are too big for you and 2) mostly just delays those problems coming to fistfuck you in even greater, more dangerous forms.

It's less a solution and more "nah, I'd rather sit here for a hundred years until the Raksha dissolve Creation and destroy linear time / the undead overrun Creation and thus send the static essence of oblivion racing out to freeze the Wyld in eternal suffering / etc etc etc etc."

It's also, more saliently, a point that automatically makes a PC into an NPC, since he's decided to stop involving himself with everything that matters.

>>44201958
You'd need to hit Deep Chaos to do that.

Deep Chaos is some serious shit.

>>44202054
Can you block lethal attacks with it in 3e?

How bullshit is using a 4-dot natural weapon in combination with a martial art that doesn't normally let you use a medium weapon?

>>44202209
>Can you block lethal attacks with it in 3e?
Yep.

>>44202240
Not very.

Why are Dual Magnus Prana and Harm-Dismissing Meditation in the Solar charm trees when they are clearly Sidereal charms?

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>>44197391
>Have the devs stated ANY plans at all for something like a storyteller's guide?
>>44198113


I wonder how much of that might show up in the essays they're planning to publish for Exploring the Age of Sorrows ($360,000 stretch goal PDF).

>>44202027
All weapons are in the back of the book, in the Panoply chapter, including Unarmed. Unarmed attacks are light weapons with some tags like everything else.

>>44202438

Dual Magnus Prana would only make sense as a Sidereal Charm if the Charm's mechanics were literally what was happening in-universe (like Avoidance Kata).

>>44202538
Uh huh. What's your excuse for Harm-Dismissing Meditation, then, Holden?

>>44202438
Eh theres middle ground.
Sidereal charm would be 'i just now twisted fate around to make it so that i was never here'
Solar charm was 'i saw this coming six months ago and prepared for it'
Solar charms are used to represent the fact that in universe the solar has way better foresight than the actual player does, which comes across similar to sidereal stuff effect wise.

>>44202691

I don't have one for that one, which is why I didn't mention it, Morke.

Harm-Dismissing Meditation is weird as a Dodge Charm, and actually fits better as Sidereal Resistance, which had the exact same trick but better (taking your harm and making it someone else's problem).

Do the Dragon Kings still exist in Exalted 3E?

>>44202798

Probably.

They aren't mentioned in core, but I don't think they were mentioned in 2E core, either.

I'm thinking of cheap ways to kill Exalts. How would a Solar escape from a collapsed mine? I'm thinking there's a number of ways, but I imagine it'd be impossible for some, such as those that don't have athletics and don't have some specific charm/spell.

>>44203279

1) Any form of extreme violence. Brawl and Melee in particular.
2) Any significant degree of Athletics investment.
3) Sorcery. Death Ray, Magma Kraken, and Summon Elemental/Demon spells in particular, I'm sure others would help.
4) Contacting the outside world by some means; it won't take long for them to convince someone to help them out.
5) They might have a relevant artifact, such as the Belt of Shadows.

And keep in mind that it's not like collapsing the mine on him will cut him off from XP; if he can find a way to survive down there for any meaningful length of time, he's GOING to get out, so Survival, Integrity, and Resistance are also on the list.

>>44200033
Well, you could secretly be planning to murder a family member. That's a bit of spice. Also a fun thing to do when you're not busy worldconquestin.

How does Join Battle work with Ambushes? When is it rolled, and by whom? Does the Ambusher roll for initiative when he's about to make the attack, and then roll the attack?
When does everyone else roll Join Battle? When the Ambush attack resolves?

>>44203964
>An ambush is defined as an attack against a target completely unaware of the attacker’s presence—generally only possible during the first round of a fight, against a target with a lower Initiative value than the attacker.

So everyone rolls JB, probably the moment the ambusher says "I'mma try to ambush him", and then if the ambusher has the highest init, he gets to roll the ambush attack.

>>44198536
>Let's be real, here: no one in the history of time has read an RPG corebook from cover to cover straight through.
Actually...
>>44199617
Constant essence-view?

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>>44200354
>>Eggplants are utterly horrible things and I don't want to eat them.

>>44204226
So if the ambusher fails to get the highest initiative, what happens? Does whoever is going before them just roll to spot them?

I assume that if they stay Stealthed, the ambush just downgrades to the other stealth attack?

>>44200695
IIRC Fate is a suggestion for them.
It's a thing that goes "ah, um, well, could you by any chance..." And then you either punch it in the dick and dump it in the gutter and make Sidereal cry like a good Exalted you should be, or patiently take its hand and walk with them like the bestest big brother/sister you are.

>>44204347
>So if the ambusher fails to get the highest initiative, what happens? Does whoever is going before them just roll to spot them?
Probably, and if they pass the attack ceases to even be a surprise attack, if the ambusher stays committed to it. Otherwise it still gets downgraded to a surprise attack, since the target got an inkling.

>I assume that if they stay Stealthed, the ambush just downgrades to the other stealth attack?
Yep.

>>44202209
With a Stunt, or with Fists of Iron.

So a player of mine wants an assassin, but he prefers to use melee, which isn't exactly suited to sneaky kills, so his artifact is going to have evocations that are good for that sort of thing.

The artifact in question is supposed to be a giant pair of scissors which splits into daiklaves, any good ideas for evocations? Currently thinking of ripping a bit from thrown.

Can a ghost possess someone in a symbiotic way in 3e? Without controlling his host?

I had this idea of a heroic mortal being possessed by a nice ancestor ghost that gave him blessings and used charms on his behalf. A cool way for a heroic mortal to get powers at the cost of needing to placate this ghost and share some of his goal.

I think it could work in a low powered exalted game (DBs/Sorcerers).

Are firedust weapons like flamethrowers or laserguns?

I prefer if they were laserguns, but single shot like muskets.

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>>44205690
stealth + melee is a perfectly viable way to silently murder things.

>>44205900
A lot of things are viable, but melee seems more suited to facing things head on, fighting openly, what with it's defenisve and counterattack charms.

>>44205690
Sneaky attacks still are attacks, and Melee's got a shit-ton of stuff that enhances attacks. Sure parts of the Charm-tree don't fit a sneaky guy, but there's a lot in there anybody that wants to stab people in the kidney might want to pick up.

Evocations are cool too, though.

>>44204278
I feel this way about eggplant a lot.

>>44199311
>"Demonology is exploitative."
The sorcerer in our group basically has that intimacy, or rather he has two intimacies that are changing over time and becoming that one. It's pretty awkward, he's unbinding all of his demons and making contracts with them instead.

The only guy in our group who cares about slavery beyond 'don't mistreat slaves', and he cares about demons more than people.

>>44200578
Snake Style is great with Dodge Supernal, and if you're unarmed then it's pretty good with Tiger. I've never tested it with Ebon Shadow, but I imagine as long as you stick with Ebon Shadow's form for the most part then you'll be fine. It's a pretty solid defense with those three. Stealth, Tiger and Ebon Shadow is a tried and tested murder machine too.

>>44201939
>Writing poetry with Appearance
What the fuck are you smoking, son?

>>44202240
Medium weapons are nice to have, if you're parry based, but Light Weapons are usually best anyway.

>>44205690
>The artifact in question is supposed to be a giant pair of scissors which splits into daiklaves
I'm not sure why you'd think that works outside of KLK.

>>44197045
>flanderized
Stop that.

>>44207642
Do you have a better word for the tendency of 2e writers to spend more words to add nothing new, and in so doing turn somewhat nuanced characters with room for the GM to slip things in into two-dimensional cartoon cut-outs of their previous self?

>>44205829
You're just trying to play Geist, aren't you.

>>44206837
They know what I look like from when I hand them the poem.

Think about it: which is more likely to get you to sleep with a girl?

a) An intense love poem written from the heart which tells you in no uncertain terms the depths of the author's admiration, coming from a plain 5/10 woman, or
b) A fairly well written and personal love poem, coming from a beautiful 11/10 woman.

>>44207920
You don't roll for handing a poem to someone, you roll to write it.

>>44207962
I'm rolling to persuade them to fuck me. They are going to take into account how pretty I am, as well as how well-written the poem is.

>>44207974
Except that has no bearing on how you make the poem. The poem works just as well if you have it delivered by trained cats.

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>>44207974
>I'm rolling to persuade them to fuck me. They are going to take into account how pretty I am, as well as how well-written the poem is.
Those are two different things.

>>44207991
>>44207995
A sensual love poem's overall quality would be Cha+Ling. However, I am not determining its overall quality - I am using it in combination with a mechanical effect, Persuade, to convince someone to have sex with me. In other words, the question is not, "how good is the poem," but "how likely is the person to have sex with me now that I have written this poem." And obviously App counts more than Cha for that.

>>44208031
A written works effect should never be based primarily on your appearance rather than persuasive ability. You roll when you create the work, not when you hand it over. If you were reciting a poem on the other hand, I'd agree completely.

>>44208139
>You roll when you create the work, not when you hand it over.
...that doesn't sound right. Wouldn't that mean I could write and rewrite a poem until I have like fifteen successes and then and only then hand it over to someone?

>>44208146

That generally falls under the "every retry bumps up the difficulty" design philosophy, so unless you get a dramatically better roll you're better off just going with your first shot.

That said, the ability to safely motedump a massive alpha shot all over the paper IS one of the big advantages Linguistics enjoys, alongside an inability to be counter-influenced and/or the ability to be very far away when your influence hits.

>>44208146
As an ST I would say that if roll low then you just don't have right inspiration. You can go with it or wait, but no rolling 15 times until you get those 20 sux.

>>44207732
No, he does not. But why use one word when you could use thirty?

>>44205895
Flamethrowers. All you should need to realize that are the Flame tag and the fact that they have terrible range.

Laser guns are essence cannons, which aren't in the book but would probably be medium or heavy Archery weapons with a tag that removes the strength bonus in return for something else, like Flame and Crossbow do.

For real though, why are they called "abilities" and not "skills"?

>>44209429
Because Exalted uses the Storyteller system

>>44209485
They're called skills in nWoD.

>>44209512

In oWoD, they were called Abilities, because they were further sub-divided into Knowledges, Talents, and Skills, which nWoD flattened into a single "-3 untrained for mental, -1 untrained otherwise" rule.

>>44209678
There aren't any knowledge, talents, and skills in Exalted, though.

For an unarmed martial artist, which charms in the other abilities are worth dipping for?

>>44210006

What MA styles do you practice? Are you dipping into other MA charms or non MA ones? Do you wear armor? How heavy is it? What are your favoured abilities?

>>44209850
There are specialties instead.

>>44210086
Ebon Shadow, probably Tiger or Snake too.
Dipping into non-MA.
Silken Armor.
Only combat ability is MA, I can add another favored if I'll be dipping.
Just looking for any really good deals to improve overall combat effectiveness and survivability.

>>44209026
I really like the Tag system.

Do you reckon an essence cannon would be any more effective than a Dragon Sigh Wand? That's the only Large Artifact Ranged weapon in the book, and it's already the best ranged weapon because accuracy for ranged is about distance so there's no disadvantage to using a heavy weapon.

Alternatively, maybe an Essence Cannon wouldn't actually be a weapon, but an artifact with a damaging Evocation. It'd be completely useless unless you were pumping your essence into it at that specific moment, but could then use attack statistics that weren't in line with the existing weapon system.

If I have a lethal weapon, can I elect to deal bashing damage (e.g hit them with the pommel) or am I locked into the lethal damage type?

>>44210006
You'll probably at least want to dip into Awareness and Dodge. Everything else depends on your style. Brawl has a pretty great utility tree, but it's fairly extensive - not so good for a dip. Resistance is alright, if you know how to work it - at least take up to Spirit Strengthens the Skin and Essence Gathering Temper. Dipping Swallow Defense from Melee is often useful. Spirit Cutting Attack from Occult...

There's a lot of fucking charms, dude.

>>44210183
>If I have a lethal weapon, can I elect to deal bashing damage
With a stunt, yes.

>>44210201
>With a stunt, yes.
not entirely correct. You can only stunt lethal close-combat weapons to do lethal damage. Firewands, Crossbows, Bows, Throwing weapons etc. can't be stunted to deal bashing damage.

>>44210221
>to do lethal damage
*to do bashing damage.
sorry

>>44210221
What? My godlike warrior empowered by the sun can't, like, stunt his throwing axe to thwack the guy upside the head?

>>44210249
nope.

>>44210285

That sure sounds like it's coming out of your asshole, since there is literally a mention of throwing a normally-lethal weapon to deal bashing:
>Lethal: This weapon normally does lethal damage when used to deliver a decisive attack. Lethal thrown weapons can be used to make bashing attacks with an appropriate stunt, e.g.by throwing a knife so it hits pommel-first or using a chakram to cut a rope holding a heavy object over an opponent’s head.

Dumb fuck.

>>44210238
>throwing 5
>throwing Supernal
>I throw my knife so that it ricochets from the spoon and hits her by the handle
>...doesn't work, roll lethal
>what
>she ded, son
>I didn't even roll yet
>she ded
>what the hell dad
>malfeas that's what
>I hate you dad
>yes let the hate flow through you
The end???

>>44210188
Oh, I'll definitely get a load of awareness and dodge.
I think my style will be hit and run stealth-based unarmed, with a lot of dodge to avoid getting hit. I've seen a few anons in recent threads suggest that would work together, and it fits my character.

Any standouts from early in the brawl tree?
I'll try that with resistance, thanks.
Is Dipping Swallow Defense good for unarmed parrying? How's unarmed parrying in general if I'm mainly dodge-built?
Ooh, Spirit Cutting Attack looks great if I think we'll run into spirits, great idea.
This advice has been a big help, thank you.

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>>44210249
The whole point to stunts is that if your group thinks it's ok to do that, then it is. Just bear in mind that the whole point to every other rule in that gargantuan rulebook is that most people prefer more structure in their RPG than going full freeform narrative.

Personally, I'd go along with your version. But there are more divisive ways a person might try to get non-lethal ranged attacks.

>>44210312
alright, I misremembered. It's just lethal archery weapons, not lethal thrown weapons.
Don't you love having to check three slightly different write-ups of the lethal tag, one for thrown, archery and melee/brawl weapons?

>>44210154

Ebon Shadow and Tiger share Razor Claws as a form weapon, which means that they can both be used with Wood Dragon Claws, which can have Evocations if it's your control spell. This will be a great boost as it's basically an artefact weapon.

Increasing Strength exercise in Athletics will help with Tigers grapples, and the speed charms will greatly help with Tiger's rushes.

Without armour, Resistance won't be that helpful, and without weapons you can't parry lethal attacks without a stunt, that leaves Dodge as your main defence, which has ways to gain initiative without attacking, and has a perfect defence if you go further into the tree.

Stealth, finally, is a no brainer; Blinding Battle Feint allows you to make a JB roll with Dex+Stealth, and only gets better from there.

Consider favouring Dodge.

>>44210315
Yeah I'd let my players stunt bashing damage with lethal weapons like that. Rules be damned, Exalted is all about doing crazy shit like that.

>>44210317
Forgot to mention you'll probably want a bit of Athletics, Lightning Speed is great if you don't have ranged attacks. Also probably want to build up to Leaping Tiger Attack or Thunderbolt Attack Prana for lotsa damage.
>Any standouts from early in the brawl tree?
Thunderclap Rush Attack.
>Is Dipping Swallow Defense good for unarmed parrying? How's unarmed parrying in general if I'm mainly dodge-built?
Dipping Swallow is a reflexive charm, you can use it for any ability. If you're hit by something undodgeable, being able to ignore penalties to your parry might save your life. Unarmed parry is always worse than a medium weapon though, that +1 parry is great.

Are there any guides for making thematically fitting custom (first circle) demons? I have a general concept for one but I want to make sure it "fits" and doesn't feel weird/off.

>>44210006
Are you actually gonna mention how your character lost his arms as part of his background?

>>44210437
This made me laugh too hard for what a stupid joke it was.

>>44210393

In general, remember that:
1) Every 1CD was made for a particular broad-scale purpose, or they wouldn't have bothered to make the species in the first place.

2) Every 1CD should have an unpleasant or alien twist on the way they do things. For 1CDs whose intended job is already unpleasant (e.g. Blood Apes) this is easy, but otherwise the twist doesn't have to be crippling, just weird (e.g. Neomah not enjoying sex in the slightest, Bottle-bugs happily eating themselves to death).

3) Every 1CD has the 3 Malfean truths (There is no power without ambition, there is no love without pain, and there is no silence without death), ingrained into their soul, and so won't undertake behaviors that defy them, and may very well actively express one or more.

Past that it all comes down to fine-tuning.

>>44210393
Not that I know of, but post what you got and we'll tell you if it's dumb or not

>>44210452
But seriously Asuras Wrath did the whole Unarmed Combat thing rather well.

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>>44210462
>there is no love without pain
>there is no silence without death
Tell me more.

>>44210355
I'm reading up on Wood Dragon's Claws, how intrusive would getting that be if I have to invest in spells and shaping it?
I'm not too sure about grappling, but I'll definitely use athletics for a few boosts and rushes.
I'll just use resistance for a few useful charms, I think doge will be my go-to, stunting unarmed parry if I have to.
Definitely going to make full use of the stealth tree.

>>44210382
Athletics seem worth a lot of investment.
Thunderclap Rush Attack seems great at any time in a round.
I might get Dipping Swallow Defense to save my ass in that case.

>>44210437
Pfftha, thanks anon, I'm gonna steal that.

I'll favor athletics, awareness, dodge, stealth, martial arts and resistance. Which should is best for supernal?
I should use a lot of rush attacks when not in stealth, right?

>>44210575
In the demon city, Adorjan flies around and can only be kept away by noise, so everyone constantly plays music 24/7. Sometimes she descends anyway. She murders everything she touches because that is her nature.

>>44210575

They're unpackable little statements, because they're often read different ways by different demons.

The "literal" interpretation of each is probably "If you try to love someone in Malfeas, you're gonna have a bad time" and "BRUH IF THINGS ARE QUIET ADORJAN GONNA GETCHA" respectively, but then you have Demons like Gervesin, who found love IN pain, falling in love with a man literally in the moment he murdered him, and was forever changed by that tragedy.

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So, here's a question. I remember reading something about "Dragons of a Different Color" where a bunch of Dragon-Bloods traveled to the underworld to escape the Great Contagion, and over time their elemental aspects altered to the elements of the underworld.
I had thought for sure it was in Shards of the Exhalted Dream, but I can't seem to find it. Is it fanwork or as a "what if" in another book?

>>44210462
>3) Every 1CD has the 3 Malfean truths (There is no power without ambition, there is no love without pain, and there is no silence without death), ingrained into their soul, and so won't undertake behaviors that defy them, and may very well actively express one or more.
I thought that was just how life was in the demon city because of what a shithole it is, not a fundamental aspect of first circle demons' psyche? Like, if you live in Malfeas, then yeah, silence == death (thanks a lot, Adorjan), but if you get summoned to Creation do you constantly bang on drums because some fundamental part of you thinks that death is certain?

>>44210678

Pretty sure that was in CoCD: Underworld.

>>44210700
>but if you get summoned to Creation do you constantly bang on drums because some fundamental part of you thinks that death is certain?

Maybe not constantly, but 1CDs get very, noticeably agitated if things are quiet for any significant length of time, and Creation is MUCH quieter than Malfeas. They might very well go out of their way to make noise in doing their tasks, unless ordered otherwise.

If they stick around for long enough (ie longer than the paltry year and a day of service) they might eventually get less jumpy, but it's basically the psychological equivalent of taking a war vet and setting off gunfire at random intervals.

>>44210701
Checking now, thanks a bunch.

>>44210678
It was in the Dragonblooded book iirc, they also happen to DBs born in or near Shadowlands. They're not that much different, to be honest, just that their anima is much more muted in color and they can learn First Circle Necromancy in lieu of First Circle Sorcery.

Their elemental aspects aren't changed to Underworld aspects.

>>44210612

>how intrusive would getting that be if I have to invest in spells and shaping it?

You need Occult 3 and the Terrestrial Circle Sorcery charm, which gives one free control spell. You also pick a shaping ritual, which basically just exaplins how you got your sorcerous power. 5sm is a low price and the 1wp will be refunded upon successfully casting the spell.

>I'm not too sure about grappling

Tiger has Iron Claw Grip and Prey Maiming Frenzy, both grappling charms.

>>I might get Dipping Swallow Defense to save my ass in that case.

I don't think Melee charms can be used with non melee weapons.

>>44210612
>I should use a lot of rush attacks when not in stealth, right?
Yes, In which case I'd prolly have Athletics as the Supernal then.

>>44210779
Really? Not Stealth?

>>44210846
...I'm bad at this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtnVVNsQ_1I

>>44210701
>>44210756

I'm not finding quite what I'm looking for in either book, so I'm starting to think it was a fanwork I read.

>>44211028
I remember something about DBs who could do necromancy instead of sorcery. Maybe the Black Treatsy.

>>44211140
I'll check it out, but what I'm thinking is distinctly Shard-like, with the underworld Dragonbloods having a mysterious Jade Emperor and a whole kingdom,

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>>44211140
That's totally a thing

>>44211193
Theeeere we go. I knew it was somewhere.

>>44210700
>I thought that was just how life was in the demon city because of what a shithole it is, not a fundamental aspect of first circle demons' psyche?
Despite being creatures created for a specific purpose, demons are still sentient beings, and they are shaped by their environment and past experiences like anyone else. I don't think there's really any meaningful practical difference between inherent parts of a demonic psyche and parts shaped by the experiences shared by pretty much every 1CD.

>>44211328
I think there's a substantial thematic - if not necessarily *practical* - difference between "I grew up in a hellscape and learned to associate silence with death because that's how it works in Hell" and "it is a fundamental part of my psyche to fear silence and associate it with death; I was born with it, and it is written as deep within me as the human need for food."

>>44211373
Well, I do agree that it makes a difference if either of those possibilities is explicitly stated as being true. As far as I know, it's not actually made clear whether these Malfean truths are actually written in the genes or Essence or whatever of demons, though I might be wrong. That these truths are a part of every demon's way of perceiving the world is all we know - again, as far as I know. Trying to figure out whether these truths are inherent to demons or learnt might make for an interesting series of psychological experiments, probably profoundly unethical ones, for a Twilight interested in such things, though.

The fuck's up with that Infernal homebrew in the OP? It says:

>Just like Solar Exalted, an Infernal may trade in two dice purchased with an
>excellency into an automatic success UNLESS it is the Ebon Dragon Excellency, which has
>another feature built into it instead.
Did I miss something in the excellency chapter or is the maker just stupid?

>>44211679

I think the maker confused the success cap with the Solar Excellency (which can only add dice), and assumed the new Excellency swallowed both the 1st and 2nd Excellency.

>>44195657
I commented on this in the Doc, but I'll say it here to.

In the Infernals 3e homebrew, the author mentioned that "Just like Solars, they can trade 2 dice, for 1 success", but that's not a thing Solars can do in 3e.

>>44211679

Just that stupid. I forgot, I'll fix it when I get a chance.

>When you live amongst the stars, you lose sight of what's happening on the ground

That quote is from Asura's Wrath, but by god it feels like it was tailor-made for Exalted. I like Exalted stories that are about the inevitable drift that Exalts experience from mortal society due to their massive power and long lifespans.

>>44212793
The OSTs for Heavenly Sword and Asura's Wrath are good for Exalted too.

>>44212932
Fuck, Asura's Wrath's plot is crazy-similar to Exalted's backstory.

>A exalted demigod who was instrumental in defeating a great evil gets murdered by the very same demigods he fought alongside with
>He wakes up thousands of years later and finds that his once-comrades have turned the world into a degenerated shithole, where everything *appears* to work but is really going down the toilet
>Oh and they've also branded him a "great evil" and are hellbent on killing him

That's so Exalted it hurts.

Am I an uncreative person for making a Supernal Melee Dawn? Because Single Point Shining into the Void Style is too fucking good. As a gigantic weeb being able to do over-the-top animu iaido is way too tempting.

>>44212793
>>44212932

And speaking of Asura's Wrath, I wanna give this Dawn a Moonsilver Reaper Daiklaive based off of Augus' sword, with evocations that make it extend.

>>44213402
...don't you want to be a Supernal MA if you want SPSITVS?

>>44213402
>Because Single Point Shining into the Void Style is too fucking good.
You want Supernal Martial Arts

>>44213442
Oh.

To be honest I am still really confused on how the fuck MA works. I know you need a Merit, but MA isn't actually an ability on the charsheet (except it is, somehow) and it's linked with Brawl and I don't even fucking know. Shit's confusing.

>>44213456
If you have Brawl as Caste/Favored, you have MA as Caste/Favored. If you have Brawn as Supernal, you do NOT have MA as Supernal, and vice versa. And MA charms are "incompatible" with "combat ability charms" which is ill defined but definitely includes most, if not all, Melee Charms.

>>44213500
Huh, so that's how it works.

The "incompatible with Melee charms" seems a little rough but the MA charms appear to be extremely strong in their own right, especially with the Mastery bonuses.

Kinda wish there was a MA for use with Tetsubo/Kanabo though. I love those weapons as well but the only real style for them in 2e was Earth Dragon Form (which, granted, was a really damn good style like all the Immaculate ones), and we don't have that one yet.

>>44213540
>The "incompatible with Melee charms" seems a little rough but the MA charms appear to be extremely strong in their own right, especially with the Mastery bonuses.
That is why they're incompatible; MA charms are strong, combining them with Melee/Brawl/Archery would be insane and make MA a no-brainer for basically every character.

>>44213573
Indeed, looking over it, do I really need that many Melee Charms if I'm going to use an MA style? Presumably I'm always using my MA whenever actually fighting.

Unless I don't have my sword, but if I don't have it then I have more pressing matters to deal with than my charm loadout, namely "who the fuck stole the Moonsilver Daiklaive that cute Lunar girl gave me"

>>44213456
>>44213500
>>44213540
>>44213573
Honestly, instead of an arbitrary MA/non-MA divide, everything ought to be a martial art. Instead of putting dots into Melee, you'd be putting dots into Glorious Solar Dickstabbing or Glorious Solar Mountaincleaving.

But balance-wise, that would require reworking a lot of stuff.

>>44213794

Pick up Bulwark Stance and Hail Shattering Practice. Single Point is great for dealing damage, but has next to nothing in defence.

>>44214112

This.

As someone who used supernal SP, you get so much offense its insane.

>>44214421

Is there any good counter to it besides ranged attacks and disarm gambits?

I am a first time GM and am running 3e. I'm new to the system, as I've only ever played once before, so I would really appreciate it if you guys could give me advice on important things to keep in mind when running

Hey /exg/ what was the name of that one charm that lets you hide a small object perfectly? I though it as in Larceny (as it should be) but I can't seem to find it.

>>44215209
White Man's Penis Prana

>>44213794
Just pick Summoning the Loyal Steel and Call the Blade and never get disarmed ever, unless your oponent is a Night Caste with Iron Wolf's Grasp, at which point the GM is just fucking with you. It's what I always do.

'Sides, some MAs are actually really good on Defence. Snake Style has solid defence, so does Tiger Style and Crane Style. Weapon-based styles not so much, with a notable exception of White Reaper which I'm seriously an incredible fan of. I dunno, maye it's a side effect of playing in a very empire-building heavy game which means fighting with really large groups of oponents, but the damn thing even has a healing charm. In a Martial Arts Style. It's fucking nuts.

>>44214908
Biggest advice you can get, at least when concerned with mechanics of the game, is this: eyeball it. The thing is clunky and obtuse and seraching for that one inconequential point of data is just gonna bogg eveyrthing down, so make a judgmenet call if you don;t know something and more importantly- if you have doubts, rule in the favour of the player unless it actually positively enhances or advances the plot if you imper them. Don't imper characters just for the sake of challange, that is pointless.

>>44215209

Proof Eating Palm.

>>44214908

The Solars will win. Any task your player come across that lines up with what they're good at, they'll likely succeed easily unless you do something stupid like start creating mortals with a parry rating of 13.

Plan around this accordingly. What are the consequences of their actions? How can you challenge their weaknesses?

>>44215400
>Proof Eating Palm.
Reminds me, one of my players used this charm to hide a note in his hair.

I allowed it because my bullshit meter was already broken at that point by the Dawn rolling 26 successes on a Decisive damage roll.(And because I didn't see any reason not to let him, really)

>>44215400
I do have to say, I kind of enjoy being a meme now. Esecpailly since this 13 defence mortal is considered some kind of a horrible atrocity that pisses of everybody and it was jst a responce to players desires, which worked great and they had fun with it, while I did it reluctantly and in hindsight believe it wasn't the best way of making this work.

>>44215448
i don't see a problem with that, was he bald?

>>44215539
Oh, and no, the Solar will not always win. They will win when it is narratively aprorpriate for them to win. They will lose to win another day when it is apropriate for them to lose. That's how stories work.

>>44215539
Uh huh, you sound a little overly defensive and mad
It was fucking terrible compared to how you had initially described the situation and you seemed utterly oblivious to how broken it was and why your players could possibly believe he wasn't a "mundane" mortal

>>44215591
I don't have the loggs, so I dunno if I came off as defensive or smug, I believed I didn't. I dsitincitvely remember admitting that it was cheating on my part, that the solution wasn't good in hindisght and that I did it just because my players expected a challanging fight and I didn't want to disappoint. People even accused me of inventing the character just to serve as a GMPC and a super special snowflake, when the only reason that character even appeared more then once after that, is because they actually liked the guy, for what reason I don't know, maybe they just liked the way I roleplayed him.

I mean, am I defensive? Maybe a little, just because I feel like I got shit on for making a decision that was ultimately harmelss and positive for the game.

>>44214473

Ranged attacks aren't even that great, as Leaping Tiger is a pretty easy closer to grab.

The main counter is to kill them first - like the other anon said, Single Point is Glass Cannon: The Martial Art.

>>44215550
No.
I mostly just brought it up because he hid it in his hair instead of trying to read it.

He pulled it out and showed it to the rest of the group later, but none of them can read it. Because it's in Old Realm.

>>44215678
90% of attitudes one perceives online is basically projection. "That post makes me mad. That motherfucker must be smug as hell." It's not even intentional. Folks just tend to assume the absent nonverbal cues match the way they've already reacted.

I had a thought that I felt could make an interesting twist for a (slightly) variant setting: what if, after the Primordial War, rather than throwing SWLIHN into Malfeas with the other Yozi, the Solars decided to keep her on side? She submits to them and the Incarnae's new authority, First Age happens, Usurpation happens, and she submits to the DB/Sidereal/Incarnae NWO. How would that change the setting?

>>44215572

The Solars will always win in their area of competency, unless your ST pulls some sort of narrativist bullshit to railroad you into failure because he's telling the story, and the players are just his meat puppets.

The trick isn't to make the punchy Solar fail at punching, or the talky Solar fail at talking, it's to construct scenarios that demonstrate punching/talking par excellence can't fix every problem. It's showing that punching everything has consequences that cannot be solved by punching.

If the players continue to escalate by just punching/talking harder, they're going to end up as the First Age Solars did, and the game mechanically pushes them in that direction with Supernal rewarding a monomaniacal focus on just one thing.

>>44216147
>he Solars will always win in their area of competency, unless your ST pulls some sort of narrativist bullshit to railroad you into failure because he's telling the story, and the players are just his meat puppets.

Always winning is boring and doesn't make for a compelling story. I'm afraid what you consider "narrativist bullshit" grown-ups simply call "good storytelling".

>The trick isn't to make the punchy Solar fail at punching, or the talky Solar fail at talking, it's to construct scenarios that demonstrate punching/talking par excellence can't fix every problem. It's showing that punching everything has consequences that cannot be solved by punching.

Sometimes. And sometimes they fail at punching and grow as a character through it. Nothing works better than failure for character development.

Unless you want Solars to not develop as characters? Again, this would make for some stale sotries.

>If the players continue to escalate by just punching/talking harder, they're going to end up as the First Age Solars did, and the game mechanically pushes them in that direction with Supernal rewarding a monomaniacal focus on just one thing.

And again, that is boring. Sometimes a rude awakening is required to move the plot forward in the deirection that would actually make it bloody entertaining.

Of course it's great to make a character who made punching their very essnce realize that you can't solve all the problems on the world by punching things extra-hard, but to be perfetly blunt, people who consider "Soalrs always have to win" to be a rule usually ca't swallow that either and feel that the GM is puprosefully shifting the focus from what they're good at into what they aren't.

First rule of RPGs: don't play with menchildren. Ever. Esecpailly people who don't understand that story-telling and character development sometimes require a hero of the story to lose, in precisely the thing he or she is good at.

>>44216120
She never would. It's inconceivable that something created can surpass its creator. That does not fit in her hierarchy.

>>44216785
But she did offer. That's the whole fucking thing of the 3 spheres catastrophe. She said "Well, clearly you guys deserve to be on top, I'll accept that hierarchy", and they said "No, we don't trust you, get inside Hell", and she went: "REEEEE, FUCKING NORMIES" and threw her 3 of her Spheres at Creation.

>>44216733
>story-telling and character development sometimes require a hero of the story to lose, in precisely the thing he or she is good at.
That's not true for every story, and the intention for Exalted is that it shouldn't be.

Lets look at Robin Hood as a stand in for an Archery-supernal Solar. The worst trouble he gets into is when the Sheriff sets up an archery contest to trap him and he can't resist entering and winning it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it being a forgone conclusion that he's going to win that competition, because part of his character is that he's the best archer. The story's interesting because of consequences around being the best.

Exalted is a game where you play these sorts of characters. "Will they succeed?" isn't as interesting a question for them as "will they do the right thing?". (That's also why Exalted has a rule system which mechanically compels the PCs to do the wrong thing.)

>>44216733
>Always winning is boring and doesn't make for a compelling story. I'm afraid what you consider "narrativist bullshit" grown-ups simply call "good storytelling".

If I want "good storytelling", I'll read a book. If I want to play a game, I'll play a game. And if I'm playing a game, failing because the ST has arbitrarily decided it's time for some narrative failure, and has thusly rigged the game is a load of bullshit. And if I want to be condescended to by a pretentious wanker, apparently I can post on 4chan.

If the only way you can consider making a story interesting, or a character develop, is to rig the game so they fail, then it's not me being unimaginative and boring, my 1-dimensional friend.

I'd like to think that, as an ST, I'm doing a decent job of not pissing off my players, even if their areas of specialty are generally not the first or best solution to a particular problem.

In particular I've got a focused Crafter who has been sent into a world of subterfuge and socializing, almost entirely through his own actions and his player's choice of backstory. He's been using crafting to bribe and bodge his way past obstacles and had a bound Blood Ape acting as a bodyguard who was given slightly too vague orders and subsequently murdered some dudes who tried to stop him from sneaking onto a boat. He is remarkably bad at subtlety and socializing.

And there's the Performance-supernal whose main solution to things has been to PERFORMANCE the idea that he is the best and that he should be allowed to do a thing, or that the NPC should do that thing right now, and it's bitten him in the ass most of the time, because (the character) doesn't think thing's through very well. The player usually says something along the lines of 'This is a bad idea, but it's what he'd do' before going near totemic and humiliating a God into opening his sanctum to the Solar.

>>44215678
Dunno, tooting the whole "when the players go against me I will win, because my level of system mastery is way beyond them, like this one time when they went against a mortal they couldn't kill. All because I knew the system better than them" horn came around a BIT smug. And when I say a bit I mean a lot.

>>44216733
Development doesn't work as an argument when there is a very clear plateau marking the pinnacle of non-supernatural capability.

>>44216733
>Superman can't tell a good story because Superman is the strongest thing in the universe

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

You can tell a great story without ever once actually challenging the players physically. You can tell an amazing story about people who never lose, ever. You tell a story about internal struggles, about unintended consequences, about problems that can't be solved by being the strongest or the fastest or the most persuasive.

You tell a story about a world that hates them. You tell a story about a threat that only exists because of them. You tell a story about the solitude that exists at the top. You tell a story about being inhuman.
You can tell stories that don't involve losing. You're just not creative enough.

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So I know nothing about Exalted except for the OP Tag line.

Could I reasonably use pic related as character art?

>>44219677
For a god yes.

For an exalt? Maybe a Twilight's totemic display for their anima banner

>>44219727
Perfect.

Now I must play.

What do those words you just posted mean?

>>44219848
I suggest you read the core book for a more complete explanation, but essentially, a
Twlight" is a caste of Solar exalted. Each caste represents a different phase of the sun, and a different aspect of the Unconquered Sun.

An anima banner refers to the visual effect of a massive power expenditure by a Solar. This, at its strongest level, takes the form of an amazing visual display that reflects the soul and desires of the Solar in question. A great crafter may well have such an image of a celestial blacksmith in his banner.

>>44219848
Gods are a class of Spirit in the world of Creation, where the game takes place. They govern a specific domain, and are more powerful based on how well-known or wide-reaching their domain is. For example, a war god of one of the cardinal directions will crush a random field god.

The Exalted are people given demigod-like power by assorted gods and other powerful beings. When they display their power, they get a unique glowing Anima that represents them.

There are 5 types of Solars, the Exalted chosen by the strongest god, The Unconquered Sun. Dawn castes are the warrior generals, Zenith castes are stereotypically priest-like and journey to spread their ideals, Twilights are sorcerers, doctors, artisans, and scholars, Eclipses are bureaucratic, and Night castes are stealthy, and can be anything from ninjas to the perfect criminal.

How do gods' reproduction - especially with respect to god-blooded - work? Does Ahlat bang your mom? How does it work for female gods? Can gods have children with other gods?

>>44220136
>How do gods' reproduction - especially with respect to god-blooded - work? Does Ahlat bang your mom? How does it work for female gods?
In general, Ahlat can go bang your mom and/or your dad can bang a Storm Mother and it all works like normal, but if the god has specialized magic (or enough raw power) then the rules of biology go out the window, and Ahlat can fuck a baby into your dad, or a goddess might get your mom pregnant by staring at her really hard, or whatever.

>Can gods have children with other gods?
I believe so, but it's not often done. Far less often than god-blooded, at least, unless they're just creating a human together.

>>44220136
Yes to all. Gods can also impregnate people through more exotic ways such as drinking from a well or just asking someone if they want a child.

Actually, how do demons reproduce? I remember reading it was in strange ways, like blood apes reproduce by curdled screams of agony, but I can't find anything like that in GoD.

>>44220410
I think in COCD Malfeas or ROGD 2?

The devs did say that good old fashioned sex also worked.

Which Supernal is more fun, Larceny or Stealth?

>>44220567
I'm pretty sure CoCD:Malfeas said that sex was the ONE way that demons never reproduce in.

>>44221340
Whichever makes more sense for the character.

Are you better at picking locks/pockets, gambling, and disguising yourself? Or at hiding in plain sight, ambushing people, and sneaking around in the dark?

What would be a decent twist on the standard assassin type character? I wanna play a Night caste but don't really wanna be the generic scoundrel.

>>44214473

Ranged doesn't work well if they have Void Slicing Wind and something to farm initiative off of.

The biggest weakness I'd have to say is the join battle. If an SP user doesn't go first, they are horribly disadvantaged as they need to activate a form which requires an entire turn doing nothing. They may try to clash you using their clash charm in a desperate struggle, but if you can overcome that you can wind.

DO NOT USE FALLING HAMMER STRIKE IF YOU ARE BRAWL BASED AND FIGHTING SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MASTERY. YOU WILL HAVE YOUR ONSLAUGHT VALUE USED AGAINST YOU.

SP is REALLY good at staying on top once its active, but if they don't start on top in the first place it's troublesome to build up.

>>44216147

>The trick isn't to make the punchy Solar fail at punching, or the talky Solar fail at talking, it's to construct scenarios that demonstrate punching/talking par excellence can't fix every problem. It's showing that punching everything has consequences that cannot be solved by punching.

I disagree.

If your ESS 1, hell even ESS 2 Dawn thinks he can take on a Combat 3CD or a Deathlord (Even a sanely statted one), then he deserves to have his teeth imploded out of his own ass.

Usually I find in Exalted what you said is largely true, but there comes a point where some enemies can go "Fuck off and die" very well for themselves unless you have an entire circle, have macguffins, or are horribly minmaxed yourself.

>>44215448
>26 successes
How
I thought dice limit was 10
Or was that Shadowrun?

>>44221936
>I thought dice limit was 10

Attribute 5
Ability 5
Specialty 1
Excellency 10
Equipment bonus / Charms / misc. modifiers

Exalted is designed with the mindset that players measure their dicepools in bucket form

>>44220410
Neomah

>>44221984
Bleh, disgusting

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This is more of a 2e question, but our group uses a hack for a superhero system instead of the actual Exalted rules anyway, and just cherry-pick the fluff bits we like for the various editions.

The storytelling chapter of the 2e Alchemicals book features a small "what if" scenario where Autocthon returns during the high First Age, with the possibility of the Sidereals co-opting the aid of the Alchemicals during the usurpation.

I kind of want to use that as the basis for a game, but I'd like some advice and feedback.
My idea is that to the Solar deliberative chose to both save Autocthon's life and neutralize him by binding him to the Pole of Earth, deep under the blessed isle, so "Autocthonia" is now a deep, subterranean realm.

cont.

The 2

>>44221524
I play with someone with an Athletic supernal Night caste, and they aren't really a skullduggery type--in fact, they're quite bombastic. They mostly take advantage of their anima muting to allow them to perform dramatic stunts and pass them off as being possible due to extreme skill, rather than magic.

I think idea that follow that trend will help you move away from the typical Night assassin. Rather than thinking about the skills they have, think about interesting ways to -use- those skills, and how someone who isn't a generic sort of assassin thief type would use them and earn an exaltation.

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>>44222126
>cont., don't know where that "The 2" came from

Anyway, crazy first age Solars used Autocthonia as a tech-farm and the Alchemicals as enforcers and such. The Sidereals convince Autocthonia to aid in the usurpation, everything happens more or less as normal from there.

The main difference in the Age of Sorrows is that there's a big cave full of robots under the Blessed Isle, and the Sidereals have control of the vats used to make new Alchemicals.

The Alchemicals exist openly among the dragon-blooded of the Realm, and are considered official "Exalted" by the Immaculate Order, although lesser due to their lack of connections to the Dragons, and inability to reproduce.

Most of autocthonia's tech is limited to the Blessed Isle, except for Alchemical-backed Wyld Hunts.

Now, I'm asking for advice on how this might effect the rest of Creation.

Also, the new 3e Exalts also exist in this hybrid setting.

>>44216147
>The Solars will always win in their area of competency, unless your ST pulls some sort of narrativist bullshit to railroad you into failure because he's telling the story, and the players are just his meat puppets.
I wish this stupid fucking meme would die.

You are strongly advantaged in your area of competence.

It is NOWHERE NEAR AUTOWIN, especially not against other Exalts, or Exalt-tier subjects.

>>44216147
"And so, the starting Solar beat Malfeas with his supernal melee, because he can't not win! Also, the Twilight with Supernal Medicine brought someone back from the dead. And the guy with Supernal Occult made a spell that sent him back five thousand years and punched Chejop Kejaks dad in the dick before he could be born, thus stopping the usurpation."

>>44221524
Be the other kind of assassin, disguises and coercion/seduction. The unexpected blade, the courtesan that kills.

>>44222605

> the courtesan that kills

Please keep your magical realm out of other people's games.

>>44222653
The scariest part about your post is that you're probably not baiting and really do believe that anything even slightly sexual is magical realm.

>>44222653
Anon, this is Exalted. Courtesans, sex slaves, gender-switching demon concubines, and fey lovers are all par the course.

It's not magical realm, it's prudish not to include them.

>>44222238
>inability to reproduce
Really?

>>44221936
>>44221984
>dice limit
>attack roll math

>Decisive damage roll

Anons, please.

>>44222605
>courtesan that kills
Glhf trying to find work after that gets out
Also fuck you for tarnishing the courtesan reputation, some of us actually do our jobs properly

>>44222927
Yeah, it says in the Alchemicals book that they're sterile, which would kind of be a big deal in the bloodline-oriented Dynasty.

>>44222945
They're an assassin that poses as a courtesan, not an actual courtesan.

Unless they wanted to do some moonlighting.

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>>44222945
>some of us actually do our jobs properly

On our knees?

>>44223013

Female courtesan

Dragon Coil Technique

Performance Supernal

Wanting any other woman from then on will be foreign to you.

>>44222238
>The Alchemicals exist openly among the dragon-blooded of the Realm, and are considered official "Exalted" by the Immaculate Order, although lesser due to their lack of connections to the Dragons, and inability to reproduce.
I had a really stupid idea, a Jade Alchie that is actually an Elemental Dragon.

Eh?

Eeeeeh?

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>>44223062
B-but Anon, Dragon Coil Technique requires Ess 3! I can't have Brawl AND Performance Supernal unless I'm one of those cool Double Exalts the 3e fiction anthology told me about!

>>44223211
>I'm one of those cool Double Exalts the 3e fiction anthology told me about!
I remember when we had a background banter about those things, good times.

>>44221524
I haven't played this one, because I roll more character than I'll ever get a chance to play, but I did make a James Bond-esque Night Caste that I think would have been fun to play. The idea was to be big on Investigation and Socialize to figure out what people are hiding, and then Larceny to get the actual dirt. And then some combat skills because I don't want to die, with maybe dip into Sorcery later, because what kind of superspy doesn't want to fly around on a whirlwind and summon pokemon to do his bidding?

Okay, maybe not so James Bond. But still, the idea of being one of the top spies for a kingdom that isn't connected to her Redness is something that probably has some potential to it.

Does Mood-Inducing Music (lust) also effect the performer?

>>44222411

Those are explicitly ruled out, thiugh.

>>44223211

Oh wait, the sex charms are ESS 1 right.

Then there's no problem in being a sexy Dawn!

>>44223327
Motherfucker, read your post again. You said a Solar will always win in their area of expertise without ST Fiat. If that is their area expertise, they should be able to do it by your own logic. And even if you're going to argue against the last two as being pendatic, then by your logic a Dawn caste should be able to 1v1 Malfeas, and a sole twilight caste should find making Solar Exaltations off of a supply line to be a job for their Supernal Craft.

Or is it "Solars should only win in their area of expertise for things that I personally want them to do"?

>>44223401
Pretty sure that anon was referring to bringing people back from the dead and timetravel, which by the rules of the setting are impossible.

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>>44223388
Celestial Bliss Trick is Ess 2. It's really the one you want if you're going full Xi Shi.

>>44216926
>That's not true for every story, and the intention for Exalted is that it shouldn't be.

The point here, which you an others seem to ignore or just refuse to see, is that it is pointless to just chuck awyz an oportunity for story develoment. Agin, why limit yourselves? Why make a line in the sand and say "this is one narrative tool I will NOT use to make a good story"? Just to make a silly in-game statement? Just to catter to wish-fullfillment fantasy of crybabies who shouldn't even be playing RPGs in the first place, because they clearly do not understand that trying to tell the best god-damn story you can tell IS playing an RPG?

I for one, refuse.

>>44219038
No, you can tell a good story about Supemran. You just can;t tell AS MANY good stories about him, because you're throwing out narrative tools out the window for no fucking reason.

Why do you think he's depowered time after time? what do you think is the purpose of Cryptonite? Why do you think stronger and stronger threats are invented, some that can actually rival Superman, like Darkseid?

If you put fingers into your ears and refuse to understand basic things about story-telling, I cannot really help you.

>>44223512
Which again only goes back to "tSolars should only win in their area of expertise for things that I personally want them to do". If there is something that they cannot do, period, by definition and it would fall under their expertise, then clearly the statament "Solars should only win in their area of expertise" is false. That's just how logic works.

Either eat your cake or have it, but PICK ONE. Either Solars always win at specific stuff or there are situations in which they won't win and we can actually try and tell decent stories with them.

>>44224185
We're ignoring that point because it's obvious, and arguing against you because you're a convenient proxy for every GM we've encountered who was more interested in telling his own story than giving his players any narrative agency or in-game strength. And Exalted is supposed to give you a lot, so arguing that "PCs shouldn't have the biggest balls at all times forever" sounds like "shut the fuck up and get on the railroad, because what you want doesn't matter". Bit of a cynical summary, but I think it's pretty accurate. Realistically, I think we're all in the reasonable middle ground with our actual personal opinions, but stating an argument is fun.

I still think that Exalted isn't the best place to focus on "what if the PCs were weaker than the opposition?". Just like DnD and its alignment system isn't the best place to look at "what if the villain isn't objectively wrong?". Exalted is a GREAT place to do a moral relativism story, which (again) is why it has the "YOU fucked this up, and it's all your fault" Limit Break system.

>>44211193
That's fucking awesome and I wish there were more about those DBs aspected with the element of the Underworld. A good idea underexploited.

What are the most interesting concepts for a social character you've seen? I'm looking for a cool 'hook'.

>>44224751
:We're ignoring that point because it's obvious, and arguing against you because you're a convenient proxy for every GM we've encountered who was more interested in telling his own story than giving his players any narrative agency or in-game strength.

Stopping zou right there sweetz+ wish fullfillment is NOT narrative agency. If you do not udnerstand how your character is just a part of the grander story and their devlopment isn't a goal on it's own but merely a part of the goal, you are entirely too selfish for me to help you.

The story isn't a web of several different people's ideas, it's supposed to be a seemless whole. If you see your character disconnected from it, above it, and you feel entitled to "narrative agency" which amounts to "now what I want happens", then there is not point in ever playing with you.

"And Exalted is supposed to give you a lot, so arguing that "PCs shouldn't have the biggest balls at all times forever" sounds like "shut the fuck up and get on the railroad, because what you want doesn't matter"."

You are hearing what you want to hear then, because every person who does not share your particular brand of brain damage understands that a character failing at a task, no matter how much the player wants to succeed is NOT tantamount to "railroading", a term that doesn't even actually exist in story-telling but was specifically invented by whiny crybabies who aren't actually interested in what RPGs are designed for.

>Realistically, I think we're all in the reasonable middle ground with our actual personal opinions, but stating an argument is fun.

Oh boy isn't it?

"I still think that Exalted isn't the best place to focus on "what if the PCs were weaker than the opposition?"."

That's one of the most BASIC tools of drama- success despite odds. If there are no odds, there is no drama and withour drama there is no god-damn story.

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Is the 13 defense guy still trying to justify himself?

>>44225046
>That's one of the most BASIC tools of drama- success despite odds. If there are no odds, there is no drama and withour drama there is no god-damn story.

Don't bother, senpai. They just want to see their Gary Stu 2-1337 Solar Exalted Superman one shot Malfeas, the Neverborn, and all the Deathlords in one blow, and go on to fuck the Scarlet Empress, Mnemon, and Lilith in a threesome.

>>44225046

Dude, just go and self-publish your lame-ass novel, so you can jack off all over your amazing storytelling abilities, and let people who enjoy their characters having their own stories, instead of listening to half an hour of torrid Storytelller purple prose, play the game as it was designed.

So, clashes.

If you use something like Force-Rending Strike to generate a Brawl-based, Decisive clash attack, can you grapple with it? Grapples are gambits, which are a type of decisive attack, and they're brawl based, so it would seem to work.

Is this correct?

>>44225046
>That's one of the most BASIC tools of drama- success despite odds.
And let me guess, it's the only tool you can use?

>>44215763
False.

Being smug in one of the most basic ego-protection tool one can use on Internet. Being smug allows you to imply you are better than the other parties, and you know best.

A lot of insecure people are very, very smug. A lot of forum filled with insecure people are filled with smugs posts. 4chan is the land of the Smug - there is a reason why Smug Anime Girl is a meme.

Anger and smugness are basically the two most basic reactions to something challenging you on the Internet.

>>44225145
I very well can use others. It's cool to tell a story where the character can succeed at the actual task only to realize that it's just not enough because the battle actually takes place on an entirely different scale. Or a story about choise, where the protagonist has to choose one outcome and all their power can't help them with that.

I can what do that. What I ask you is, why would I want to tie my own hands and not use a very basic and effective tool on purpose? If I have a lockpick, why use a crowbar? Or better yet, why not use both for different situations?

I am not a fan of rejecting tools to make cool statements that don't even make logical sense from meta-narrative perspective. I'm sure it makes sense for people deeply immersed inside the story, the type of people who can't even distinguish from fiction and meta-fiction, the type of people who can only make a good story by sheer accident or savant talent.

>>44225420
some of your defences would be reasonable against an extreme of the opposite view
but coming from 13 defence 'mortal' guy and with your arrogant and bitter tone, they're wasted

>>44221524
An ace detective, a literal superhero in the mold of Batman, an old retired spy, a barbarian guerrilla warrior, a Galleanist assassin, a courtier with a secret grudge, a favored concubine.

>>44225420
I've noticed that every term you use sounds like you're talking about writing a story, rather than running a game.

So, where exactly is the guy claiming that Solars should always win within their area of expertise coming from? I mean, that statement isn't supported by mechanics, and while there is no doubt some fluff supporting that view, neither the original nor current presentation of Solars agree with it. Solars are supposed to be mighty, not invincible. They can go toe-to-toe with anyone in their area of expertise, and they'll have a decent change of victory, and that's impressive as hell. They're not guaranteed to win, though. They're not supposed to be guaranteed to win.

>>44225703
Memes, and guzzling the golden rod, basically.

Solars have this weird ability to reach out and brainwash their fans to insane degrees.

It's truly their strongest power.

>>44221524
Among a certain people, there is a very old tradition: the sacred trickster. When there is no one presently in this role due to death or resignation, this figure is selected by lottery from among the ranks of volunteers, and it is a lifetime appointment (though one can resign at any time). The job of the sacred trickster is to bring the high low and the low high, and to mock and question that which is considered sacrosanct. They are allowed leeway to commit any crime that is not violent, so long as its commission is revealed, by their own actions, to the public.

The only question is: what do you do when the sacred trickster becomes Anathema?

>>44225703

It's partly codified in the setting. Solars have better Excellencies, some might be able to hit the same sized dice pools with stunts (Lunars) or under certain circumstances (Exigents), but Solars can always hit the (Attribute + Ability) whenever they wish, even Ahlat, a god of war, is capped by his initiative. Also, throughout 2e, they had better, or cheaper, charms as well. There's also the Supernal, which is rumored to be exclusive to Solars, which further codifies them as The Best when faced with Exalts of similar Essence rating.

Most of us understand that Solars are not invincible, the Usurpation, Wyld Hunts, and Elder Exalts all see to that.

There's also a bit of what >>44225794 says as well.

>>44225703
It's kind of that the mechanics totally support it too. As a general statement of achievable prowess, solars in their area of expertise are peerless as far as the majority of the setting is concerned. This does not mean they can't be challenged or defeated, however.

>>44225703
The original "They should win at their specialty" post seemed to be responding to 13 defense anon, so it's understandable reacting to such extreme bullshit would make them sound more absolute and strict with their claims.
From the rest of the posts, it looks like the "solars should win side" were talking about a strong competence and likelihood of success, except against challenges clearly out of their league. Which then got strawmanned into them being 100% unbeatable.
I think the focus was more criticizing that gm for cheating so hard to create a false sense of difficulty because they were too stupid to think of other ways players could be challenged. Or hell, just a straight up hard fight from someone that wasn't mortal, or had a more justified reason for having an advantage over them. The original thread gave a bunch of suggestions for that, and this guy is still too bitter and defensive.

It fits the themes of the game that solars are the best at specialization, their excellency built the first age, and their arrogance brought their downfall. Characters will try to use their expertise to overcome most challenges, and be too blind to other methods, this is what would lead to character development and self-awareness allowing them to grow while understanding their flaws and shortcomings.
A solar should be able beat almost any mortal in their field with ease. While having great challenge from an exalt equipped to combat their style and methods.

>>44225876
While the EX is a great power, with I(A)M being drug out back and having a few rounds put into it's skull, it's no longer the massive, massive untouchable bonus it once was.

Otherwise what you say is generally true, yeah.

>>44225921
It's come up several times before Mortal 13, though.

And any time a challenge out of their league was brought up, niggas would throw a 'tism tantrum, screaming that there should be no such thing, a solar in their area should flat out win, no question, 100% curbstomp every time.

Which just flat out isn't true.

>>44225894
>This does not mean they can't be challenged or defeated, however.
But this means that the claim in question *isn't* mechanically supported. I mean, if Solars can be challenged or defeated, it obviously isn't true that "he Solars will always win in their area of competency, unless your ST pulls some sort of narrativist bullshit to railroad you into failure" like >>44216147 claims. No one is saying that Solars aren't the mightiest of the Exalted, but even when doing what they do best they aren't guaranteed to win. A combat-oriented Solar is more likely to win than lose when fighting an equally combat-oriented Lunar, but the chance of defeat is still significant - that's how it should and hopefully will work, at least.

>>44225933
Excellencies aren't really even an advantage for Solars anymore. Lunars can reliably match the Solars' dice cap - this requiring a stunt just means they have to explain how the second Attribute added makes sense, which is trivially easy in some situations, like explaining how you put your mighty Strength behind your strike in combat. Sidereal Excellency with it's target number lowering effect is pretty sweet, too. Solar Excellency isn't really unambiguously the most powerful.

>>44226005
I have to say, I really, really hope they leave the Lunar EX as it is. I love that fucking thing.

It's literally the JoJos EX, when you stunt it properly.

Solars lose because they're too proud to back down and reconsider their options, because their presence stands out and calls most of creation on their ass.
They get in over their heads too easily because of their ambition and hubris.
You beat a solar by swarming them, by using your infrastructure of armies, the realm, yu shan or barbarian hordes to overwhelm them.
Or you can beat a solar by outsmarting them and striking when they're unguarded and weak, with methods they're not built to defend against.

Mortal 13 Kamina could've kicked their ass if he played it smart or had backup, not because lol gmpc fiat.

>>44221936
>>44221984
27 Initiative, Single Point charms bringing him to 56 dice total, and a damn lucky roll.

>>44225963
Which is why I said "kind of", "as a general statement" and "as far as the majority of the setting is concerned". And why I described them as the greatest, not invincible.

Solars are with relative ease the best in their chosen skills, but that doesn't mean they can't lose.

(And of course, the size of the gulf that makes them the greatest by comparison to everyone else is relative, and a Solar should well be comparable to a Lunar of competing might.)

Could one's Sorcerous more pool metaphysical organ thingy be damaged somehow?
Could you use Medicine to fix it?

>>44226104
What?
>Sorcerous more pool metaphysical organ thingy
I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>44226136
>more
More*

>>44226152
Fuck autocorrect fucking piece of shit fuck
Mote.

>>44226152
Thanks for clarifying.

>>44226104
You're asking if there's some charm/artifact/posion/etc that can somehow reduce one's ability to respire, store and use motes, and do it in such a manner that a successful medicine check can fix it? Probably. If it doesn't exist you can probably homebrew it.

>>44226161
>>Sorcerous mote pool metaphysical organ thingy
Still have no idea what that is, dude.

>>44226104
As in "make a sorcerer unable to gather sorcerous motes"? Yes.
As in "reduce the number of sorcerous motes a sorcerer retains from the successes in his roll"? Probably.
As in "actually harm someone by attacking a non-existant organ"? No.

There is no metaphysical organ. When you gather sorcerous motes, if anything, they would just manifest to sorcerer's sight like protons/electrons orbitting an atom, with the sorcerer being the atom.
Medicine wouldn't be used to fix anything you did, unless the sorcerer's initiation was specifically related to physical perfection/well-being and you fucked that up somehow.
In most cases, it'd probably be an Occult roll by the sorcerer, maybe Integrity, to figure out what happened/fix the broken part of their soul or w/e.

>>44225921
>From the rest of the posts, it looks like the "solars should win side" were talking about a strong competence and likelihood of success, except against challenges clearly out of their league Which then got strawmanned into them being 100% unbeatable.

That's hilarious apologetic. They were clearly claiming that Solars win, no contest, no exception. If you are smart enough to undertsand that that's illogical gibberish of a manman, that's great, but don't therefore assume they couldn't possibly think that. Don't project your moderate opinion on extreme idiots.

>It fits the themes of the game that solars are the best at specialization, their excellency built the first age, and their arrogance brought their downfall.

And thats ays nothing about whether they can or cannot be meaningfully challanged and fail. In fact it makes the whole First Age thing meaningless because it can't be considered a meaningful acomplishment if they couldn't have failed at it. It is also making them look hilariously bad, since it would mean that either a) people who literally cannot fail to bring in eternal utopia... Failed or b) they actually WANTED it to fail. Neither makes them look good.

Do you undertsand what I'm telling you? For entire narrative of the setting to make sense AT ALL Solars need to have the capacity to fail at what they put their minds to, even as a cohesive group, saying nothing about singular Solars. They need to be able to fail at their goals, because otherwise ALL their acomplishments look like a big joke. If you can't fail, there is no value to success.

And yes, we are talking here in binary positions of absolute retardedness, but that's the problem of such aboslutist statements like "Solars shouldn't fail at the area of their expertise". We can only move on if these retards actually admit that they can, because that IS a binary dillema.

>>44226269
>if anything, they would just manifest to sorcerer's sight like protons/electrons orbitting an atom
Electron Cloud Theory. The motes will still look cool, but a Bright aura isnae really the same thing

>>44226027
>Mortal 13 Kamina could've kicked their ass if he played it smart or had backup, not because lol gmpc fiat.

The retard who did this reporting in- he wasn't even supposed to beat them. He was just supposed to be a fun challanging fight. And had it lasted longer, he'd have lost.

Although, I will also point out that I love "Mortal 13" as a term and will steal for a name for an NPC. It sounds cool.

>>44226567

What would have happened if the Dawn just clashed? Did the mortal have anything for that?

>>44226515
Didn't this argument start with someone being advised that a ST should always assume the PCs will succeed when planning ahead?

>>44226611
Good question. I will admit I did not think of that and since none of my people were into Brawl which is the clash-iest thingy, nobody tried.

It may be the case that I would have to come up with some kind of bullshit, but I probably wouldn't. Or at least not in a way haters think I would.

>>44226675
Kind of.

And interestingly I was that person.

But the point of that post was completely missed, the idea isn't that players should succeed because that's some kind of a rule within Exalted that Solars win, but because looking for a rulling takes time and screwing people over just for the sake of screwing them over isn't gonna create positive tension, it will only piss them off. The point was: when you don't know what to do, rule in favour of players.

By all means, if you DO know what to do, feel free to fuck them over as much as you wish if it actually enahcnes the story.

But then the retards who actually DO think that "solars win" is some kind of a rule in the game chimed in and here we are. I feel like this is a discussion that's been brewing for the last 2 threads anyway.

Hell, beats Craft discussions.

What're the best supernals for a rogue in general? Not specific character concepts.

>>44226692
Actually, melee is the clashiest thing. Bonus accuracy and whatnot. But then, you did say they didn't know the system well...

>>44227084

Shockingly; Larceny and Stealth cover most of the roguish things, so they're generally what you want to Supernal to be the best rogue.

Amazing, right?

>>44227116
What about an Archeologist?
A Night Archeologist.

>>44227293
Investigation.

>>44227293
Lore, Athletics. Some Larceny and Dodge.

>>44227096
Brawl has a reflexive at-will clash Charm. Melee doesn't.

>>44227293
Still Larceny. Archeologists are glorified thiefs.

>>44227340
What is Fervent Blow?