Horus Heresy/30k general

First for Sigismund cannot be defeated 1v1.

>>44193136
Sevetar beat him in the fluff

>>44193136

Warlord titan

>>44193176
Just like when their daddies fought.

>>44193136
Lucius.

Come at me battle-bro.

>>44193136
is fated to die against abaddon in ADBs Black legion series.

>>44193136
Anvil drops on his head in the shower, he slips and breaks his neck and Abaddon walks into the shower and drowns him with the showerhead.

>>44193090
Word Bearers theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_NYNuAdIv0
>(y/n)?

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Does anyone have experience playing 30K lists against 40K lists?

>>44193320
>>44193891
Sigismund better at least give Abaddon the fight of his life and not die from anything cheap.

>>44193899
Nay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lr9I-MxmbM

>>44193950
well you kind of have to when you involve daemons

>>44193899
Sons of Horus theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InRDF_0lfHk

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Anyone have any good pics or links to threads with Heresy-era Emperor's Children? I wanted to get some inspiration for how to paint their purple.

>>44194276
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Modelling/Horus_Heresy_Painting_Guide.pdf

>>44193950
It seems like it should be fun against Tyranids. I could imagine some scout fleet showing up to be curbstomped by the Space Marines.

>>44193950

40k destroys 30k due to formations, decurions, assault after deep strike, and free wargear.

>>44194700
And super heavy weapons

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>>44193899
>>44194021
>>44194033

I want a chapter with jazz as it's theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40V2lcxM7k

>>44194868
I could see Alpha Legion having some kind of suspense sounding jazz.

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>>44194868
>square bases

So was this for Space Hulk or did Rogue Trader actually use square bases?

>>44195000
I imagine she used Space Hulk terminators for this set, they look different from RT termis I think...

>>44193090

Alright team, predictions/wish listing on new Rites of War, go:

known/rumored ones:

>Word Bearers
Gal Vorbak as troops, hopefully more then just that

>Emperors Children
Kakophani as troops, once again hopefully more then that

>Sons of Horus
Everything gets twin-linked/mastercrafted first turn its on the board

>Iron Warriors
Something to do with exploiting a creeping barrage, stealth or shrouded after artillery fires maybe

And from there we're really just left with speculation/wish listing until we get leaks, ones I can see are:

>Death Guard
Grave warden/destroyer centric, lost of stuff makes dangerous terrain or acts as denial units

>Iron Hands
Focuses on reanimated dudes, all the rank and file get revenant alchemy but falls into programmed behavior if no cortex controller models around

>Imperial Fists
Something that plays like 40k Black Templars, bonuses if your guys get killed off and consolidating towards the enemy

>Salamanders
Something very dreadnought/elite focused, like the honored veterans being brought out to assail some really tough objective

>Night Lords
Troops get fitted with discipline collars and are used as a disposable distraction for lots of infiltrating/outflanking elites/fast attackers (envisioned as the punishment for the too unstable elements of the legion, be used as cannon fodder)

From there on I have no clue what they could do, like where do you take the World Eaters that their Rite of War hasn't already, or the Raven Guard for that matter, considering their Rite plays exactly how the fluff portrays them. Any other guess/wishes?

Hey guys, new to the whole Horus Heresy stuff, I had taken a break from 40k around the beginning of Fifth edition, and came back to all this new stuff, and was looking at various kits.

Has anyone tried mixing pieces from the Blood Claw/ Grey Hunter set with the Betrayal of Calth miniatures? I'm primarily looking at the heads, as a way to spruce up the sergeants and make them look a little different from the standard Legionary units.

Other than that, are there any cool conversions you've pulled off with the miniatures so far?

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>>44195651
I'm sticking some Space Wolves heads on them and bought three GW upgrade sprues because I figured Ragnars pauldrons was a close enough match to the 30k one seen in pictures. I'm being conservative with the heads, though. I want them to look less tribal than they do in 40k.

>>44195519

>Alpha Legion

No one without infiltrate, deep strike or outflank. If not infiltrating, must start in reserves.

The alpha legion player may reserve up to 500 points of their available army list. They may not spend these points for any reason.

After both sides have deployed but before anything else, the Alpha Legion player may "buy" a single enemy non character non unique unit of value up to the amount of points reserved from the Alpha Legion players.

The Alpha Legion player may buy a prevent dedicated transport for the unit but this must be purchased in addition to the unit.

If the unit was placed within a vehicle that has not been purchased, they must start the game within 3" of the exit points on the vehicle.

Enemy independent characters and assigned characters are placed at least 1" away from the unit or in their original position.

>>44195738

And uh, obviously there would be something to keep this from being used in sub 1500 point games.

>>44193986

Nah, better if sig tries to duel and abaddon just lets him die via swarm of nobodies, or something dishonourable like shooting him. Sigismund dieing as the final passing of a more noble and hopeful age.

>>44195735
Actually, it makes me wonder if FW is holding back Prospero because of the prospect of GW making some plastic MK2 sprues?

>>44195519
>Space Wolves
Outflanking infantry units. Pinning on all shooting attacks for the turn they show up.
Must have at least 3 troops

>Raven Guard
all infantry and jump infantry have hit and run while Warlord is on the table. And get bonuses towards cover for a turn.
Must have Warlord, and when he dies all units taking morale checks. Only 1 consul can be bought per detachment, no allies.

>Imperial Fists
Man those walls motherfucker! Buy a fortification and get 3+ cover save, and heavy support as troops. (God Please)
No deep striking.

>Omega Legion
No unit can infiltrate, and all units must start in the deployment zone.
Get bonuses towards seizing the initiative, all vehicles get scout (and outflank), get pinning when shooting at units in cover for 1st turn.
And have the ability to put 1 (or more) unit (s) into reserves.

>Blood Angels
Jump infantry everywhere. Master-crafted weapons for free. And can count as jet packs if wished.
Must deep strike, need 3 jump infantry units. Only 1 consul allowed (champion)

>Dark Angels
Certain units get additional buffs. i.e. greenwing = all troops get x and y, ironwing = vehicles get x, deathwing = veterans and termies get x special rules.
Must include all 6 wings of Dangles units.

>>44195519
>Iron Warriors
I'd think they do some kind of all terminator assault making Tyrant siege terminators troop choices

>>44195519
Personally, I just hope the IW one is less unwieldy to use than the current one.

>>44196042
Why do that when IW are already one of the best candidates for a pride of the legion termy force?

they should probably do more to buff IW deesptriking/reserves since Perty buffs it but nothing else does.

>>44196155
true, i completely forgot about that ROW

>>44195519
Kakaphoni are also getting relentless.

>>44195519
>all the rank and file get revenant alchemy but falls into programmed behavior if no cortex controller models around
So tyranids. No thanks.
>Something that plays like 40k Black Templars, bonuses if your guys get killed off and consolidating towards the enemy
Dorn HATED Siggy, so I doubt his legion would act much like Siggy's chapter.

>>44196012
>Space Wolves

I just hope for less wolfety-wolf-wolf shit. And the ability to take Exterminators.

>>44196243
>Dorn HATED Siggy, so I doubt his legion would act much like Siggy's chapter.

But everyone loved Siggy and the Templar Brothers exemplify Sigismund's teachings which then are transplanted into the BT, the entire thing is just Sigismund's fanclub following their husbando and emulating him and that happened even after Sigismund split from the Fists.

>>44196243
No he didn't hate him he was pissed off because sugismund switched himself for Pollux due to Keller prophecy
Of course it turned out Pollux was better at space warfare and would have killed perturabo and most of the iron warrior fleet
But no Dorn had to send his shitty all marines return to terra message just as he was about to smack them up

>>44196302
I'm personally fine with both of those being things.

>>44196302
>And the ability to take Exterminators.

My testicles tell me SW are going to get a 0-1 choice for a heavy support squad of Leman Russes instead of the artillery squadron the rest of the legion has.

>>44196132

I will forever and always maintain that the IW should have received "assault after rapid fire" buff from their RoW instead of that useless wrecker on krak grenades one, and received something else awesome in the RoW, like:

>vehicles being able to buy siege plating
>Heavy support choices becoming scoring
>tanks/walkers becoming denial/scoring units
>gaining buffs to being in the enemies deployment zones (Sweeping advance, charge distance)
>Running and then shooting or shooting and then running

>>44195780
>Nah, better if sig tries to duel and abaddon just lets him die via swarm of nobodies, or something dishonourable like shooting him. Sigismund dieing as the final passing of a more noble and hopeful age.
But if he doesn't dies fighting like a man that's a slap in the face to Black Templar fans. Maybe have him ripping his way to Abaddon through swarms of nobodies with his power armor in shambles and still able to give Abaddon a fight of his life.

>>44194700
I would partially agree, but Legion list actually can field some mean answers to 40k. The Scorpius does great against Necrons, the Deredeo is a solid answer to most air and the Sicaran destroys eldar skimmers.

The disadvantage is in unit tax making out troop choices subpar and way too expensive.

My 40k list is usually just some pride of the legion vets with heavy bolters, a kheres mortis contemptor, a deredeo, a scorpius and a sicaran. If we range up from 1500 to 1850 ill add some thudd rapiers and possibly another contemptor

>>44197221
I hope that's not the case.

I'm hoping that SWs actually get a lot of the marine-killing tech that's around, considering that its hinted that they took down one of the two Lost Legions at least, and also fought the Thousand Sons.

It would be interesting indeed to see what they come up with for them.

>>44193950
You can probably play vs certain lists ok. But against formations and all the over the top bullshit in 40k, it doesnt sound fun.

>>44198057
>It would be interesting indeed to see what they come up with for them.

Frost Bolters!

>>44195519
The NL Rite of War got buffed in the faq.

>>44198170
murderbolters, you mean

murderbolters with wolffrost ammunition

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Is this going to work against storm shields and lychguard shields?

>>44198617
Yeah, the rule is clear. No saves of any kind from any kind of shield.

So Solar Auxilia player here, wondering if Ogryn are worth getting, I have 4 lasrifle sections, a command section, a flamer section, and have 2 storm sections on the way, 5 leman russes, and 3 dracosans. Also considering Quad Mortars

>>44198698
I feel Ogryns are too expensive for what they do, but I haven't used my SA that much.

>>44198698
Ogryn are good, but hard to work in to lists. Statistically they should each be able to eat five plasma shots before they die, which is nice, but they're entirely too easy to just remove from the table with an S10 blast. If you're up against a list without an easy removal option, they're definitely worth considering, because they can do really well against MEQ and AdMech bullshit.

YMMV, as with everything in 30k. If you like the models, run them in your list and chew some traitors up.

>>44198057
S8 AP3 Large Blast isn't marine-killing tech?

>>44194700
>>44194842
>>44193950
Its a mix up. AdMech do very very well in my experience.
(For a long while there wasn't much of a 30k scene where I was).

>>44193950
I think Veteran tacticals or equivalents are the best option when going against 40k, they offer the best bang for your buck for troops and you can just go ham on your heavy support choices which tend to be more killy then some 40k ones.

>>44198851
Yeah, may get some because I love my Bane Ogryn, and I tend to fight more for fun than competitively, but I just didnt want to pour money into a model thatd get wrecked

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I'm looking to get started with Salamanders and I know that 1500pts isnt much for 30k so I'm looking for something that will be a solid base to start with with and still have fun, while knowing it will be expanded upon in the near future.

Also, I typically more so play fluff/lore based armies as opposed to min/maxing things, but I would still prefer to not get stomped every time.

HQ:
Legion Praetor [200pts](I realize that Iron Halo may be a better use of points, but this setup fits in with the army better)
* Cataphractii Armor
* Thunder Hammer
* Dragonscale Storm Shield
* Mantle of the Elder Drake
* Master Crafted
* Digital Lasers

Troops
Tactical Squad [200pts]
* Inferno Pistol
* Rhino

Tactical Squad [205pts]
* Inferno Pistol
* Master Crafted
* Rhino

Tactical Support Squad [230pts] (Sort of like baby Pyroclasts)
* 5x Extra
* 10x Flamers
* Master Crafted
* Rhino

Elite
Firedrakes [350pts]
* TT/SS

Heavy Support
Spartan Assault Tank [315pts]
* Armored Ceramite
* Twin Linked Heavy Flamer

Total: 1500pts

>>44198698
Ogryn actually work in imperial milita and cults. Get the survivors of a dark age and abhuman helots provenances, then get the planetary overlord warlord trait. Buy a 10 man squad carapace armor and heavy bolters. With planetary overlord pick the merchant princeling warlord trait, and use it to boost ap of heavy bolters. Result? 10 toughness 6 three wound infantry with 3+ armor, and a AP:3 heavy bolter. Yeah, only BS:2, but with 30 shots total enemy units will shit themselves. It's very expensive, but very, VERY, powerful.

What is the best rapier battery configuration in your opinion and why?

>>44200565
Laser Destroyer because pew, pew!

>>44200248
Sorry buddy, I play Auxilia, and I'd like to stay there.

>>44200565
3 quad mortars :) been enjoying the one I have

>>44200650
thats what allies are for

What mark armor do 1K sons usually take?

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>>44200693
Blinged up version of Mk 4

>>44200688
suppose, just dont want to pay for their rules

>>44200752
>Those two Alpha Legion operatives on the left
Never noticed those before.

>>44200791
Just having MK VI armor doesnt make them Alpha Legion, anon.

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Attempting to make Fulgrim's face less terrible

>>44201912
Looks like a pretty decent start anon.

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>>44201938
Thanks

This is the body its going on. Im replacing the sword with a 3rd party one to represent Fireblade. Im trying to recreate a 1-off Fulgrim alternative sculpt Simon Egan did

>>44202013
I've seen that work in progress before. Still think it looks damn good. What's the Fireblade you're gonna use?

>>44195000
Looks like custom basing, probably to use in Space Hulk. Those never came with square bases.

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>>44202091
The rightmost pic related.

It was the only thing I found that as large enough, every other 3rd party sword was regular space marine scale

>>44202265
I can dig it. Those guys make some good stuff.

So I'm looking at the special EC rite of war - as a newb, I'm wondering, what do you guys like to use for your 3 unit Elite/Fast attack assault? What are your favourite combos?

>>44203114
Well I'm going to have a guess at it.
Ensuring your flyers arrive on t2 without anyone Alpharius fucking up your reserve rolls.
Inserting Destroyers/Terminators in Land Raiders from the side.
Guess you could flank with some Land Speeders and/or Jetbikes too..

>>44195834

It's probably just because they trying to also include two armies that aren't Marines within it.

>>44193286
riggityrekt son

>>44193299
>Sharrowkyn would like a word

>>44195519
>Raven Guard
AdHoc kill teams comprising of units from different legions being led by Raven Guard commanders. Corax picked up a lot of loyalist legionaries from traitor legions that he integrated into missions. Maybe take troops with a different Legiones Astartes rule, like IH tac squads, but have the support unit rule.

Or kill squads/squadrons of units that work together. Sort of like mini formations of kill teams and strike teams. Perhaps a 'build your own unit' type deal. Like veteran tacticals but normal tacs(therefore cheaper), more akin to 40k tac structure to simulate post isstvan forces.

>>44200565
trip mortar all day ery day. Anti medium AT and anti infantry

>>44203582
Such as?

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>>44205200
Sisters of Silence and Custodes, nigger do you even fluff?

>>44205228
I'm actually not very deep into the 30k fluff and I kinda forgot about those two.

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Ok, my EC are having a lot of trouble against my friend's mechanicus army. Mainly the Grav-spam Kataphrons. This the solution ive concocted.

> Eidolon, a Forge Lord, and 8 Palatines with Phoenix Spears, in a dreadclaw
>Forge Lord has Rad-Grenades and the void-shield generator relic
>Dreadclaw barfs them out
>Grav doesnt affect void shield, and the cognis flamers cant glance it
>Unit charges, rad makes Kataphrons T4, Eidolon ID's them all before they swing with his hammer

>>44196302
Not in book 6 tho

30K noob here. Thinking of starting an IH army based on the Morragul Clan. This list is made with what I think will be fun in mind. Give me feedback if the list is legal or not and how much I will lose. I will be using the IH rite of battle.

HQ:
Autek Mor

Troops:
Legion Tactical Squad
Additional CC-weapon
Powerfist/PW + Melta bombs
Rhino

Legion Assault Squad
Combat shields x 10
Power weapons x 2
Thunderhammer/lightning claws x 2
Melta bombs

Legion Predator Tank
Sponson: Heavy bolters
Executioner Destroyer

Medusan Immortals
Volkite Charger x 7
Graviton gun x 2
Thunderhammer

Contemptor Dreadnought
Hvy Conversion Beamer

Castellax battle automata x 2
Targeting array x 2
Darkfire cannon x 2

I cant decide between either a support squad in Rhino with Volkite Calivers or Heavy support squad with autocannons for the last 300 pts or so, give or take. Both squads comes in around the same cost so they could be changeable.

Ask if you have any doubts

>>44205356
Be prepared for the wonderful surprise that is Kataphron Breachers with Heavy Arc rifles blowing your void out, followed by the usual gravitic death from Kataphron Destroyers.

>>44206625
>>44205356
What the hell is a Kataphron?

>>44206651
40k version of Myrmidon Secutors and Destroyers.

>>44206651
Cult Mechanicus troops. Either in Cc or ranged version. Very heavy guns.

Can anyone comment on the Master of Signal model? Can the head and shoulders easily be swapped or are they molded together?

>>44206679
The head arms and shoulders are separate from the torso and legs

He is also a manlet marine.

>>44195000
That Danish actor is so damn snygg.

>>44206657
Right, well... 40k vs 30k, it's not strange that you're having issues with it. 30k has a lower power level.

>>44205228
You just know she's dripping atm

>>44206855
>>44206657
>>44206663
>>44205356
Aircraft.
Really any kind of aircraft would do.

>>44206918
Sokar pattern stormbird with orbital strikes?

>>44206962
...you dont have to go that far. Fire Raptors, Storm-Eagles with dudes, Caestus, Lightning Strike fighters etc

3000 point ultramarine/fist army
Avoiding vehicles
Primary Detachment: Ultramarines

Lord of War

Roboute Guilliman

400 pts
HQ

Chaplain

Artificer Armour
Melta Bombs
Crozius Arcanum
Plasma Pistol

115 pts
Elite

Honoured Telecmarus

255 pts
Troops

x5 Invictarus Suezarian Squad

x2 Plasma Pistol

230 pts
x5 Catapratti Terminator Squad

Grenade Harness
Heavy Flamer

195 pts
x20 Tactical Squad

Bolter
CCW's
Melta Bombs

275 pts
x10 Tactical Support Squad

Volkite Calivers
Melta Bombs

305 pts
Fast Attack

x3 Jetbike Squadron

135 pts
Heavy Support

Dredeo Pattern Dreadnought

Missile Launchers

220 pts
Allied Detachment: Imperial Fists

Rite of War: The Stone Gauntlet

HQ

Alexis Polux

165 pts
Elite

Rapier Battery

x2 Laser Destroyers
x1 Graviton Cannon

185 pts
Troops

Phalanx Warder Squad

Melta Bombs

260 pts
Phalanx Warder Squad

Melta Bombs

260 pts
Total: 3000 pts

Guilliman goes with suezarians, chaplain coes with 20 man blob and polux goes with a squad of phalanx warders

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>>44195039

1st ed SH termies were poorly-detailed plastic and came with round bases. The HM models in that pic are ye olde metals from the same era and also included 25mm plastic rounds in the blister. The square bases were Ms. Ellyard's bit of extra personalisation for her army - an activity that was encouraged at the time.

>>44206826
Fantastic, thank you. Getting one for my TS legion, but he needs a bitchin' crested helm.

>>44206962
Can you stick a Damocles in a Stormbird?

>>44207595
Rhinos can be transported, so probably.

>>44207595
No, but you can stick it under a thunderhawk transporter...

>>44195000
So what's the deal with the human centipede conga line?

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tg help, what should I read next?

>>44200065
By Iron Halo you do mean with Artificer Armour right? I can't remember if Salamanders outside Terminator Armour can take Dragonscale Shields or not, but if that is the case then the normal maxim about terminator armour for Praetors remains. You're literally paying points to lose grenades, run moves and sweeping advances and transport awkwardly. Teleport Transponders are an exception.


Good list overall, tough and with a good model count for its cost.

>>44200756
Pay what?

What Armour Mark did the Ultras use in the Heresy?

>>44206604
Shapes up pretty well. Assault squads are own of a select few weak units in 30K (Recon Squads, Legion Champions, new Moritats, Justaerin, Phalanx Warders and Darkwing Gunships are the others) that aren't worth taking (the converse are the old Moritats, Rapier squadrons, Typhons, Invictarus Suzerains and Combi-Flamer Mor Deythans, which you shouldn't use like crazy if you want interesting and fair games). I suppose another Despoiler (melee tac) squad will do an equivalent role, or maybe take a cheap Tac squad and then kit out some Veterans or whatever. Go for the autocannons over the calivers. Happy crushing.

>>44205356
>playing EC vs. a 40k army known for undercosted units with obscene dakka

Why anon? Your friend is a fucking moron if he thinks this is a fair fight.

>>44208406
We had a silly discussion about that before, and yes, he admitted he's paying 5 pts to look cool and be slightly worse. But the Praetor goes with cataphracts anyway so shrug. Rule of Cool always wins.

>>44206918
If hes using Onagers, aircraft arent gonna help at all.

>>44208434
A mix, but Mk IV is the most common if official art is an indicator.
Any armor can work within the fluff though.

>>44208434
Mk IV looks like the most common. The Invictarii and Praetorian upgrade sets are both Mk IV, whilst Invictus Suzerains use Mk III artificer armor. Most, if not all, of the pictures in the FW books show them wearing Mk IV.

>>44208497
Somehow, Mark V seems to be very rare.
Mark VI, of course, is only used by the Raven Guard in this era (except for some suits the Alpha Legion stole).

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>>44208509
Pic related. Mk IV is by far the most commonly depicted, but they're also the largest legion. There's no reason not to use III or II instead. Or V, if you want to depict the tail end of the heresy. Or even VI if you think it looks cool, there's no reason the largest legion wouldn't have had access to at least a few suits.

>>44193090
Guy interested in Emperor's Children from the last thread here.

Thanks for everyone's input. I think I'm going to go with them after all, and plan kinda two different themes based on whoever my opponent is, one for Loyalist Emperor's Children, and one for Traitor.

>>44208536
>largest Legion

I thought the Word Bearers had the most Space Marines back then?

>>44208581
Youre getting new RoW. By the time your army is complete, theyll probably be published.

>>44208593
Canonically the Alpha Legion is probably the largest thanks to their fractured nature and cells operating independently, but that's left deliberately ambiguous.

>>44208581
Glad you finally made the call, that's the best way to do it. Give yourself options. I paint every new IW unit slightly differently. Different marks, heavier weathering, different bolters. I can field them in early marks as loyalists, later marks as traitors, or mix and match for when it's not important.

>>44208593
Ultramarines was sitting at around 250k until the battle of calth

>>44208593
even the word bearers were aware the smurfs had more dudes

it's part of why they had to go for surprise

>>44195000
this made me cry, thank you so much

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>>44208171
...
... I don't even
Just do the star wars and watch in the order of official publication and release.

>>44208593

I Dark Angels - 150,000 (estimated)
II
III Emperor's Children - 110,000 (60,000 post Isstvan)
IV Iron Warriors - 100,000+ (Above Average Legion size)
V White Scars - 100,000 (Average Legion size)
VI Space Wolves - 100,000 (Average Legion size)
VII Imperial Fists - 100 - 150,000 (estimated)
VIII Night Lords - 90,000 - 120,000 (pre dropsite massacre)
IX Blood Angels - 120,000 (pre Signus)
X Iron Hands - 113,000 (38,000 estimated, post dropsite massacre), 100 Capital Ships (33 estimated, post dropsite massacre)
XI
XII World Eaters - 150,000 (112,500 post Isstvan), 60+ Capital Ships
XIII Ultramarines - 250,000 (150,000 post Calth)
XIV Death Guard - 95,000 (63,000 post Isstvan), 70 Capital Ships, 210+ Escort and Assault Craft
XV Thousand Sons - 10,000 (1,000 post Prospero)
XVI Sons of Horus - 130-170,000 (70-110,000 post Isstvan), 100+ Capital Ships, 300+ Small Cruisers and Escorts
XVII Word Bearers - 140,000+ (rumoured to be close to rivalling the Ultramarines in numbers, 50,000 amassed at Calth)
XVIII Salamanders - 89,000 (7-8,000 post dropsite massacre)
XIX Raven Guard - 80,000 (3,000 post dropsite massacre)
XX Alpha Legion -100,000 (Average Legion size)

>>44208516
MkV is a catch-all term for Power Armor that is an amalgamation of modified parts of other Armor marks, and crude methods of keeping everything assembled and functioning. It was created as needed by Legion forces, never produced on wide scales like the previous marks. It also has no single defining look - GW and FW's models are portayed as such for the sake of convenience. In reality, it could be any combination of parts from the different Armors.

>>44208824
I think some numbers are off, I think White Scars had only 10 000, Word Bearers at least 150 000 and for Alpha Legion, I don't think even the Emperor knew.

>>44208900
That's not how the old WD article says it. Mark 5 was an armour design for using existing technology and methods of making armour. You don't slap together different armour parts to make a mark 5. That's not how the old armour marks worked. Modular armour variants came around later with Mk. 6-8.

It's basically a schematic that that assumes you can make mark 2-4 suits, and then using the production method and technologies enables you to make a simpler and easier to make and maintain suit of power armour. There's nothing really new implemented in the mark 5 suits, it's all based on existing knowledge and tech.

It's a bit like how during WW2 you had companies that made consumer goods switch to weapons production. Sten gun, for example, was made with equipment that was used for making bed springs and motorcycle exhausts. And mosquito bombers were made by a furniture company. It's applying old tools and knowledge in a new way.

>>44209035
No they are accurate the Alpha Legion is the only one which is of because we simply are not sure we can only guess consider the things they pulled of in the heresy that they are at least average sized if not larger

>>44209035
Also Wolves got gutted hard during Prospero, they lost a tremendous amount of legionaries to the point that they where nearly useless.

>>44208824
I think this is pretty close, though I'm not sure to which degree they were confirmed.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Legion

>>44209075
The Wolves lost a large amount in prospero and later in the heresy where almost destroyed by the Alpha Legion before the Dark Angels saved them so near the end of the heresy the Space Wolves where at a few thousand legionares at the most

>>44208536
How do I get those Helmets with the big face plate (shown on the right)?

>>44209039
"Marine artificers and Techmarines had to use old style equipment from older models to keep the legions fighting, as well as salavage from slain enemies and unorthodox inovations of their own.[1][8]

This ad-hoc assemblage of various armour mark segments (including new or unoffical design elements) being created by a multitude of legions resulted in an entirely new mark of armour being 'accidentally' created; these previously non-standard, emergency/stopgap designs were retroactively termed as the Mark V once production of the Mark IV was halted and the design for the subsequent Corvus Armour mark (Mark VI) was finalised. Some form of standardisation across Mark V suits is is notable, despite their apparently random creation and individual varied origins, due to the dissemination of molecular bonding techniques across the legions."
>Source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour#Mark_5_.22Heresy_Armour.22

>>44209109
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Ultramarines-MkIV-Praetorian-Heads-Upgrade-Set

>>44209109
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Ultramarines-MkIV-Praetorian-Heads-Upgrade-Set

>>44209118
>quoting wiki/lexi

Fuck off, m8.

Speaking of Prospero, how exactly did Russ think he's going to defeat Thousand Sons? When even with free planetary assault, support of costudes and sisters, fighting a foe that wasn't expecting them, they still managed to nearly lose.

>>44193136
daemon fulgrim with a pipebomb in each hand.

>>44208824
Thousand Sons have been changed to 100,000. Lexicanum is only sourced to the mass-market paperback, not the hardcover.

>>44209119
>>44209126
Last question:
Are Breacher Squads worth it and how likely are non Mk III Breacher Squads?

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>>44209138
There are direct sources listed for the information.

>>44209066
Proofread bro. Thats nearly indecipherable.

>>44209139
He did not think he is not known for his smarts friend

>>44209139
The pariah mainly. He had quite a few.

It seems to me that the main reason why the Thousand Sons did as well as they did was because of

a) The Wolves didn't really protect their pariah + sisters of silence

b) Their abomination forms were absurdly powerful

>>44209157
Breacher Squads are not bad but they are not great either. I do not see non Mk III Breacher Squads coming out anytime soon

>>44209161
>thinks giving shit a source makes it accurate

Seriously, go have a look at the actual sources.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?338219-Size-of-Old-Legions

Bowden had some input here.

>>44209183
Did you read the novel a Thousand Sons ? It was not the mutant version of the Thousand Sons that made them so powerful it was their psyker powers there where multiple instances in the novel where a single thousand son wiped out dozens of Space Wolves with his psyker ability's not to mention the Titan which one of the Thousand Son fused himself with using his psyker powers personally killing hundreds of Space Wolves.

>>44207595
>>44207844
The Sokar Stormbird may transport a single Rhino (Total capacity is 50 models, the Rhino takes 12 spots). To quote the big book itself:
"It may also carry as part of its complement a single Rhino which takes up 12 models in capacity. This Rhino may carry models within it as normal."
Assuming that the Damocles counts as a normal Rhino for transport purposes, the Sokar can carry 1. It's not a Rhino based battle-tank after all, but a transport with extra options.

>>44208171
Brotherhood of the Storm and Scars, followed by Butcher's Nails and Betrayer

Have you been crossing out the short stories as well? I highly recommend not skipping them as they fill in a shit ton of missing information in between novels, especially the most recent ones, Legacies of Betrayal, Death and Defiance, Blades of the Traitor, and Meduson.

Mark of Calth, Tales of Heresy, and The Primarchs can generally be skipped.

>>44209260
I read it and that's my point.

They still had access to their psyker powers when they went into abomination mode.

>>44209266
So, if you assume the Rhino has a 2 man crew, the vehicle itself doesn't take up any space.

>>44209288
they still had access to their psyker powers most of the battle anyway cause anytime a sister of silence appeared they just got insta headshot cause the Thousand Sons know their shit

>>44209155
While I agree 10k is probably wrong it is well known they were the smallest Legion by a very large margin. There were only roughly a thousand of them left after Magnus stopped the flesh change so 10k total is actually a much more credible number than 100k. Their psychic prowess amplified their combat effectiveness by a large amount too.

Have to be a little bit proud that the Thousand Sons probably got something like a 5 to 1 killscore vs the puppies. And that's with the Custodes helping out.

Can't wait for the Prospero book. Wonder if they'll put in a Warlord titan with psychic pilot....

>>44209361
>While I agree 10k is probably wrong it is well known they were the smallest Legion by a very large margin

"Though the Battle of Gate Forty-Two was counted a victory by (and indeed for) the Warmaster, its effects were far reaching. The Legion's numbers were sorely depleted, leaving only 8o,ooo Legionaries under the Primarch's command and making it the smallest of the legiones Astartes." - HH3: Extermination, page 135

>>44209433
Raven Guard, forgot to mention.

>>44209184
I know they are not released, but you can improv them by combining Mark IVs with Siege Shields.
My question is, does that go against the fluff?

>>44209461
It does indeed go against the fluff if you against me cause the whole point of breachers is to be able to take a beating and Mk3 armor was more resilient but heavier than Mk4 armor

>>44209306
Yes.

These were the only two points that I listed.
>a) The Wolves didn't really protect their pariah + sisters of silence

>b) Their abomination forms were absurdly powerful

>>44209494
and i contradicted your statement saying the abominations where incredibly powerful. They where not actually special in power to the rest of the Thousand Sons your point stating they did not protect the sisters of silence was indeed correct but i am saying it is the Thousand Son psykers in general not the abominations that made a big impact in the fight

>>44209550
The abominations has a lot of stayability though, and they turned abomination when releasing their full powers.

I agree that they still got great mileage out of their psykers but without the additional damage soak from their abomination forms they would've died much quicker.

>>44209157
Breacher squads can work in some lists, but aren't really necessary in others. YMMV, and you'd need to play them to find out if they work for you.

There are two kinds. The first is the Mk III breacher squad, sold as a complete kit. This is what people think of when you say breachers.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Legion-MKIII-Breacher-Siege-Squad

But there's also a generic Space Marine boarding shield kit that looks much more streamlined, and complements Mk IV plate really well.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Space-Marine-Boarding-Assault-Upgrade-Set

So just grab the boarding shield upgrade kit and slap it on your BaC Mk IV marines to get cool future Mk IV breachers.

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Choosing a Legion is proving to be the hardest thing ever. Gentlemen, how do you take the first step on starting a new hobby project?

>>44209724
Well i usually end up making a list of the stuff i want for example when i went about choosing my legion i had the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons and World Eaters in mind. So i sat there for like 2 weeks imagining what i want. Making some fluff for my band of warriors and creating army lists until i just rolled a die and decided i did not like the role that came up and realized the one i truly wanted was the Alpha Legion and then i went on a shopping spree

>>44209724
Rule of cool. If I like how the units look, I build them. Most of the time I can afford to get two or three units a month. In terms of 30k, my main legion is AL which hovers at around 5k total points for flexibility with lists. I've also got about 1k of EC for allied detachments. My current project is Solar Auxilia because I fell in love with the HQ units, and they're sat at something like 1.2k, but i'm aiming to push them up to 3k. And i've been stripping, tearing apart, and kitbashing older models to make a unique miltia and cults force. Right now it's about 50% abhumans with a beastmen/IG mashup aesthetic, and 50% grenadiers by throwing Vostroyans, old school Stormtroopers, modern Tempestus Scions, and the new Skitarii at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Progress is always slow because i'm always finding something new to build or paint, but I genuinely love every model in my 30k collection. I've given them all at least two or three hours of attention to get the poses and loadouts just right before I even basecoat them.

>>44209724
Look at whatever is cool and get screwed by shitty rules later.

>>44209035
>only 10 000
That's not been a thing for any legion for a long time, not even the Thousand Sons

>>44209913
>called thousand sons
>have more than a thousand sons

GW plz

>>44209724
Betrayal at Calth/get a bunch of heresy era marines. Get some upgrade kits of you want (I like to use the bits on the squad leaders/elites and spread some others out)

I also don't start a new army without some foam/storage options.

You can do some research to get a paint scheme that will work for you and order paints.

>>44208824
Imp Fists in HH3 are mentioned to have rarely gone above 100k, but their fleet was immense "a naval force rivalling the grandest expeditionary fleets", with "hundreds of battleships, cruisers, destroyers and frigates"

>>44209934
It was how many there were when Magnus took control of them.

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Question: Best HH novel? Is it Betrayer? If I read Betrayer will I finally develop an appreciation for the Ultramarines?

>>44210203
>i will never be ten years old and reading cool ass battle reports after school ever again

Why even live?

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>>44210203

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>>44210239

>>44210250
Certainly agree with battle for the abyss being in the heresy tier.

>>44210203
It's Know No Fear and The Purge that you want.

>>44210308
can you explain to me what you dislike about battle of the abyss other than the obnoxiously incompetent Space Wolf ?

>>44210347
Not him but it's pretty much the worst representation of the Word Bearers outside of a codex. Also the fact that outside of the one World Eater, there's really nothing memorable about the book.

>>44210347
I didn't like the Word Bearer big bad, the blood angels thing didn't really go anywhere and I felt like the whole book just tied up a bit too neatly.

Now that I think about it, the book had the thousand son fighting that daemon though, which pretty baller.

I also really disliked fallen angels, even though it had my man Luther in it.

>>44210390
I meant world eater btw, not blood angel.

>>44210345
You honestly thought 'Know No Fear' was the best one?

I read it yesterday and while I thought it was quite good it felt like the book was too much buildup for not enough payoff.

The book is essentially 40% build up and then 25-30% destruction porn.

Not a bad book by any measure, but it spent more time on fairly tedious destruction bits than almost anything else. I loved the bits about guilliman, thiel and the other guys, but they just weren't enough.

Also, Kor Phaeron almost killing Guilliman??

>>44210460
Sorry, I was more answering the second question of which books to develop an appreciation for 30k Ultramarines.

For best book, Betrayer, The First Heretic, Scars, and Meduson are all top of my list.

>>44210203
A Thousand Suns is very good, at times makes you feel like 40k wasn't doomed to be grimdark

Haven't read Now no fear or betrayer though.. should get my hands on em.

>>44210460
KNF was good bolter porn but not so much as a Battle of Calth, yeah.

>>44210460
Know no fear was an excellent gorn book, it didn't even try to be anything more.

Just mindless entertainment.

>>44208477
I rembember a short and functional exchange, nothing silly about it.
>Rule of Cool always wins.
Then why ask for list critique?

>>44211039
Because nobody enjoys losing every single game. There's a balance between playing with stuff you enjoy and actually being able to win a game every now and then.

>>44208171
>Reading the Dark Angels books
Are you being held against your will? Is someone forcing this upon you?

>>44211233
Honestly the first one was alright. It just wasn't really a HH book. Same goes for Damnation of Pythos. Not super atrocious, but shouldn't have been part of the series.

>>44211212
So you're afraid of losing every single game, but when someone points out a needless suboptimality with your list you spurn it? Not very rational.

>playing with stuff you enjoy
You'd have to explain what's so enjoyable about using a Praetor with a worse statline over one with a better one first.

>>44211233
I didn't know the shit I was getting into zzzz

And I couldn't stop imagining Lion El Johnson as the fucking Lion from Digimon.

I've read some more short stories that I haven't crossed off but I'm having a hard time with the following;

a) I'm just not interested in Angron or the world eaters
b) I'm not overly interested in the iron fist dudes after the dropsite massacre

I mainly want to read about Corax, Kurze, Perturabo and Mortarion, but they're only featured in a few books :(

>>44211370
You assume the anon who posted the original list and the anon who brought up the Rule of Cool are the same. But then again you seem to be fully in the no-fun-camp.

>>44211522
>iron fist
Yeah, we can tell.

Have you read Daemonology? It explains Mortarion's shift towards sorcery.

>>44211522
Finish off the Thramas Crusade short stories.

>>44211687
Not him.

I did read it. the Daemoness getting wet at what Morty was going to become was funny.

All that promise amounted to him getting one shotted by Draigo ten thousand years later.

>>44211612
That would be an impossible presumption, given that the RoC anon said otherwise.

>no-fun-camp
Nevermind, people in the no-brains camp generally have trouble following things.

>>44211837
True-named. Big difference. Had the Grey Knights known the true-name of Angron, the 1st War of Armageddon might've gone similarly.

>>44211522
>And I couldn't stop imagining Lion El Johnson as the fucking Lion from Digimon.
Shirtless and doomed to die in every universe?

Or fighting an Elvis impersonating monkey made of metal?

>>44211370
Dude, there is a difference between "You could use more Heavy Anti-tank" or "10 man Tactical Squads with no upgrades is a bad idea" compared to "You're paying a pittance extra to have your character preform mildly worse just so he'll look cooler"

The anon was asking about the former, not whether he had a super optimized list that used only the best stuff available.

>>44212060
>10 man Tactical Squads with no upgrades is a bad idea
Okay so this is the kind of mind I'm dealing with here.

>"paying a pittance"
>10pts minimum, 25 or more points in some cases
You don't have your head in the game.

>"preform[sic] mildly worse"
>losing sweeping advance for a crucial melee unit is a mild loss
>frag grenades don't make a difference
>certain list builds don't hang on packing as many crucial men into a transport as possible

Just admit that you don't know anything about Warhammer tactics and move on. Railing against simple observational advice because you can't foresee the impact is futile.

>>44212392
>losing sweeping advance
He's a Salamander. They're practically incapable of sweeping anyway.

>frag grenades don't make a difference
Dude has a Thunder Hammer. They *literally* make no difference.

>packing as many crucial men into a transport
5 terminators+Praetor is either 11 or 12 capacity. Even if he wasn't taking a Spartan (and he is), there's no difference there - 30k doesn't have Crusaders or Redeemers. Storm Eagles also have 20-man capacity, and Caestus doesn't care.

>>44212392
The praetor is paying 5 points more for the same invulnerable he'd have if he went artificer+halo. So, yes a pittance.

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>>44211522
>a) I'm just not interested in Angron or the world eaters

Shame, those are one of the best books in the series.

And Betrayer is quite frankly, depressing.

Are side sponsons on tanks worth it?

>>44212869
...on which tanks?

>>44210250
>angel exterminatus in mediocre
i thought it was one of the better ones

>>44212904

Predator. Thinking of going with the plasma exterminator on an outflanking Predator (IH rite of war).

>>44193090

R8 and h8 my speculative list for two copies of BaC:

Iron Warriors:

RoW: Hammer of Olympia

pts: 2000

HQ

>Praetor
>warsmith - 100 pts

Elites

>Tyrants (1)
>1 x Chainfist - 300 pts

>Tyrants (2)
>1 x Chainfist - 300 pts

>Contemptor-Mortis
>Twin Kheres - 180 pts

Troops

>Tac Squad (1)
>15 x Marines, 15 x CCw, Artificer, Power Axe - 230 pts

>Tac Squad (2)
>15 x Marines, 15 x CCw, Artificer, Power Axe - 230 pts

>Tac Squad (3)
>15 x Marines, 15 x CCw, Artificer, Power Axe - 230 pts

Heavy Support

>Iron Havocs (1)
>6 x marines, 6 x Missile launchers, Augury scanner - 245 pts

>Ton Havocs (2)
>5 x Marines, 5 x heavy bolters - 185 pts

>>44212392
>losing sweeping advance for a crucial melee unit is a mild loss
The unit the Praetor is accompanying is in Terminator armor. He wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

>frag grenades don't make a difference
Both the Praetor and his unit have unwieldy weapons.

>certain list builds don't hang on packing as many crucial men into a transport as possible
He only has the one Independent Character and one transport that can hold more than 10 marines anyway.

>>10 man Tactical Squads with no upgrades is a bad idea
>Okay so this is the kind of mind I'm dealing with here.
10 Tacticals without at least a Vexilla or a Rhino is absolutely wasteful. Unless they're from one of the legions that have an ability that substitutes for the upgrade.

>>44212951
If you're willing to take Machine Spirit, maybe. Triple HB + PotMS can be a scary gun platform which would work very well with Outflank. But it's very expensive, and you need to figure out at which point you'd rather just take a second Predator instead. HB sponsons + pintle HB + PotMS is 65 points; a stock predator is 75.

>>44212962
You're not taking advantage of the biggest benefit of Hammer of Olympia. You don't even have a maxed out Heavy Support section. I think you could get more bang for your buck by dropping a tac squad and making your Warsmith a generic Praetor. That'd give you enough points for some artillery, for example, or a couple Predators. Your list is kind of halfway between a melee focused and a shooty one, and I don't feel like there's good synergy between those your troops/HQ and everything else.

>>44212840
I'll read it though, eventually.

Even if he's not my favourite I still think the lore and shit is interesting.

>>44212951
On a plasma predator it's a tough call. the exterminator wants to hunt terminators, which the HBs won't do a great job of and the lascannons are too expensive for single shot weapons. You'll probably be better off with two or three sponsonless predators.

>>44212840
>>44213193

What makes Betrayer so good?

How many bodies do I want on the table at 1500 points?

I'm currently looking at 2x 10 Tacticals in rhinos and 2x 5 heavy supports in rhinos.

Even at 1500 points that seems a bit low?

>>44213254
This may give you a rough idea. Every one of the armies shown clocks in at 2000 points.

http://imgur.com/gallery/mM1Rk

>>44210250
Nemesis? In the good tier? That's extra heretical

>>44213291
Huh. That seems surprisingly low overall. Thanks.

>>44213224
It shows how broken the 12th legion is, how they went from a band of brothers to raving lunatics with murder machines carved into their minds.

It has a lot of golden moments.

>‘Just give me the Peace.’ The warrior sank back to the ground. ‘Seventy years of serving the Butcher and his Nails is long enough.’

Khârn wished he’d not heard those words. Discomfort danced its tingling way down his backbone.

‘You served well, Gharte.’ Khârn disengaged the seals at the warrior’s throat, lifting the helm clear. There wasn’t much left of the sergeant’s face. Something must have reflected in Khârn’s expression, for Gharte made his devastated face into something like a grin.

‘That bad, eh?’ he asked. His gurgling laughter became another cough.

Khârn’s reply was solemn obedience. He held the gladius above Gharte’s left eye, its point a finger’s breadth above the dilated pupil.

‘Any last words?’

‘Aye. Piss on Angron’s grave when he finally lies dead.’

Khârn wished he’d not heard those words, either.

>>44213254
You don't want to play 30k at 1500. 30k is designed for 2k+, with it really coming into it's own at 2500.

People play 30k for the sweet extra toys and huge squads with special rules, and 1500 is too small to take advantage of any of that. Either play small Kill team/ZM/Victory is Vengeance games, or go all the way. It's quite possible to build a 2000 point army with just the BaC box, and it becomes easy with just a few additions.

>>44213291
Yeah. If an all-terminator force (with literally half of it being overcosted justaerin) can bring twenty three models, one of which is the most expensive Primarch, thirty mooks at 1500 starts to seem a little low.

>>44213312
Check out his imgur profile. Corublo posts fantastic photos of every event he goes to. It's actually his first 30k battle report that made me take the leap and get in to the scene.

I'm thinking of using a spiced up recon team as a Coils Mor Dethayn squad. Not beakie but could look very AL. Maybe transfer some Raven Guard symbols on to them and then paint some hydras coming out of their eyes.

thoughts?

>>44213428
I use the recon squad as an actual recon squad because those models are FLY AS FUCK and they're the first squad I bought. They'd make really good Mor Deythan, although the lack of beaks would be a little odd.

>>44213323
>30k is designed for 1750+

FTFY

>>44213448

They are baller as fuck but since I don't have anyone else I can snag with Coils atm they're going to be my go to guys

Unless stealing a Havoc squad is a better idea

>>44212392
>looking to run Blood Angels
>Going to run Praetor with terminator armor, Iron halo, and Paragon blade.
>accompanied by a LCS that also has terminator armor, and power axes.
>I still have no idea what I'll use them for other than an AP2 7 wound blob that gives out fearless

I've stopped caring about winning in warhammer. If I can't enjoy it then there's no point. Of course there's always the possibility that BA rules will do something crazy like give terminators sweeping advance.

>>44212962
i dont much like hammer at 2k, and you're wasting all the benefits, you should have maxed out HS slots

>>44195519
fyi, the Blood Angels rites are Day of Sorrows and Day of Revelations. Sorrows being very heavy on defences, and Revelations being full on boarding assault.

>>44213254
>>44213323
The new strike missions are designed for 1,500-2,00 points. So is the Delegatus Consul.

>>44213489
That's bullshit.

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>>44213701
>baby cant read, please spoonfeed me

Open up wide baby, here comes the train of knowledge! CHOO-CHOO!

>>44212507
>>44213014
You raise a good point about the Salamander and load-out specific stuff. I jumped the gun in this instance.

>10 Tacticals without at least a Vexilla or a Rhino is absolutely wasteful.
It's the cheapest non-RoW specific compulsory Troops choice. Two squads of ten is 50pts more than one squad of twenty, and the advantage is palpable. This is the whole purpose of pricing units to be more expensive at smaller numbers, they are better in MSU so the pricing reflects this. So barebones Tacs a) fulfill a niche and b) are fairly priced compared to the alternative, which doesn't need accessories for the same reason incidentally. Don't get me wrong, barebones Tacs are not amazing but to put them on the same level of underpowered units like Recon Squads or Phalanx Warders would critically cheapen the term.

>>44213528
That really isn't the point. It is *a* point, but it's not relevant to that discussion.

>>44212584
Actually it's a 10pt difference, but you lose your tl bolter altogether. I did goof'd with that math, given that the Praetor in question is a pure melee build the loss of a pistol and Overwatch is trifling, grenades are irrelevant to Thunder Hammer models and SA isn't possible with Terminators in any case. You still miss Running and lose the possibility on stuffing an apothecary in there or what-have-you, but that's not bad for 10pts.

>>44209724
Go with the theme and look you like the best.

>>44210203
Oh hey, I remember those cactuses with red spines.

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>>44215582

Toothpicks I think. They were simpler times.

>>44215669
Yeah, it was GW's red period. Am era when everything got a dash of red on things that didn't need to be red. Even Nagash in WHFB got red nailpolish that did nothing to help his already silly apperance.

>>44215716
>didn't need to be red
blasphemy, everything needs to be red

>>44215669
>huge howling griffons army
>huge army
>huge

This basically the goddamn SM formation now.

>>44215795
Even Orks?

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>>44215829
Especially the orks

>>44215870
They look like angry canadians.

>>44215898
Those knitted caps used to be a sort of visual shorthand for commando units. I guess it shows the age of that image nicely.

>>44215870
So was the Blood Axes around for 30k or did they come later?

>>44208597
RoW?

>>44208609
It seems logical to me, so that I can get the best of both worlds.

>>44215958
I figured that was the point. The red red camo is pretty hilarious.

>>44215966
I've always assumed that they didn't really exist until extended contact with a stable Imperium. On the other hand, they like to copy humans, and orks and humans coexisted for millennia before the Age of Strife so who knows.

>>44213323
I think it works well at 1500 without Lords of War, and at 2500+ with them.

2000 is a little awkward - you want to use a Lord of War at that size but they're too prominent at that points level, imo.

>>44208171
do you have the original of this, without the red xs through shit?

>>44213323
My friends and I don't play anything less than 3000 nowadays.

>>44215669
>>44215799

Well lets see how big it is for a 30k game.

HQ

I see an assortment of stuff, can easily be close to 300pts for a praetor, 2 consuls and a command squad, lets say 350.

Troops

I see three 10 man assault squads with some upgrades (2 power weapons in each to represent the other weapons in the pic), that comes to 810pts

Elites

3 tactical with a heavy weapon, lets assume they are veterans and I guess they are riding in rhinos?razorbacks? 3 Veterans with a missile launcher and a rhino each comes to 825pts

3 dreadnoughts come to 375pts

6 terminators is 235pts

Theres a lone 5 man squad with a heavy bolter, can be with vet squads for 145pts

Fast Attack

2 land speeders, 100pts

Heavy Support

I see two devastators, lets say they all have heavy bolters, thats 270pts, the bolter marines can form a tactical squad so thats another 150

Overall that list is around 2500pts for 30k, probably around 2000 for 40k.

File: 1448548402132.jpg (92KB, 500x586px) Image search: [Google]

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10 man Fulmentarus squad with Typhoon Launchers

Worth 700 points?

>>44218407
Nope.

>>44218407
As in every competitive undertaking, ask yourself one question. Can I, at the absolute bare minimum, earn back what I spent?

That's definitely a unit capable of killing 700 points worth of enemy units. But it's also a frankly ridiculous fire magnet that will be removed from the table at the first possible opportunity; they may not even get a chance to shoot the juicy targets.

>>44215799
Well it is pretty much a company.

>>44215669
>those models were golden daemon worthy in 1994

I look at those fucky old retarded Japanese woodcuts and ask myself "how could people be THAT SHIT at art only a few centuries ago?". And then I look at a plastic army man from 1994 that was lauded as the best painted model in existence, and it looks worse than one of my test models from this month.

>>44215669
>mandatory green flocked base

The good old days.

File: Golden demon Has Changed.jpg (40KB, 636x265px) Image search: [Google]

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>>44218785
The game has improved, anon.

File: HH_Timeline_06_2015.png (1MB, 4234x3012px) Image search: [Google]

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>>44217723
I think this is the most current one.

>>44218785

Europeans didn't know shadows were darker colors instead of just adding gray or black to the color until a few hundred years ago.

>Chinaman has spartans for $75

>...Chinaman also has storm eagles for $75

help

>>44208171
Wait what? Horus is discovered BEFORE the Emps goes to Molech? Didn't he get the power to create the Primarch from Molech (supposedly)?

>>44220418
Why do people actually believe that? the only source for "emps stole his power from the chaos gods" is THE CHAOS GODS THEMSELVES.

They lie. Everything they do is a lie. It's all to make Horus believe in what he's doing.

>>44220418
I never read anything that said exactly what the Emperor got from Chaos on Molech. Only that it was some sort of deal, and the Emperor reneged and didnt hold up his end of the bargain.

>>44220481
A lie can't be believed unless it has a kernel of truth

Unless he went to Molech BEFORE creating the Primarchs, it would be a poorly written lie

>>44220414

oh jesus his Caestus ram is $75 too

I cant decide

>>44220743
Buy one of each you poorfag.

>>44220915
Buy him one of each, moneybags.

>>44220923
>Moneybags.

$225+S&H? Better ask your mom to up your allowance.

>>44220931

Chinaman has free shipping on orders over $35 (I think, I just bought a $43 order and no shipping fee)

also yes buy me one of each

>>44221026
It's because he folds the shipping cost into the price of the item. Chinapost isn't free.

>>44221053

yeah nigga can roll whatever he wants in there, dude hasn't raised prices on existing items even if his newer stuff is reflecting cost of production.

Half price storm eagles and spartans are fine with me.

>>44221122
Hope you're not buying from Z, his stuff is shit tier.

>>44221128

Is Z coolcast?

>>44221145
No, CC is a little better than Z.

>>44221162

Okay good. I bought from a different caster who then proceeded to disappear off the face of the planet, but he sold eldar jetbikes for $3.5 each and I now have a whole gang. They worked out since they weren't very detailed and I didn't inhale any of the pure poison its made out of.

>>44220931
Then buying anon a nice Christmas gift should be well within your budget.

>>44221379
I would if he weren't a faggot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>44221408
Quit hating on the gays, Don.

>>44221408

b-b-but I-I- wouldnt be as gay with a bunch of terminators in a storm eagle

So, what would you anons recommend for a good Emperor's Children Librarian model?

>>44221629
Half-naked marine dancing on a stripper pole which is actually his staff.

Or you could try making a marine that looks kind of demonic, like a couple of mutations going on, I mean its not like the EC werent full on demon cummies after the heresy started.

>>44220414
Just out of interest, where do we find chinaman nowadays? I had a bookmark about a year ago but that site died.

>>44221955
Google. Seriously it's simple finding recaster info nowadays.

>>44221955

They aren't that hard to find and spelling it out on /tg/ is the best way to get them fucked over by GW.

>>44210203
Betrayer is basically all about the World Eaters basically. If anything you will understand why Kharn is so loved and how cool the World Eaters are.

The Ultramarines show up, but mostly are enemies as its mostly in the perspective of Lorgar, Kharn, and Angron.

>>44211919
This, the book managed to make the fight far more understandable.

Even the most powerful of Greater Demons can be beaten if the true name is known, its not easy at all, but can be done.

so are storm eagles worth taking to shift 20 man tac squads around?
i dont really love the idea of having my 20 muhreens slog across the board and get whittled down by artillery and shit until 3 or 4 dudes are all thats left

>>44222947
Storm Eagles are worth taking empty. If you want to toss a tac squad in there for safekeeping, all the better.

>>44222974
awesome, i'm planning out my 3k hammer of olympia list and i want to have most of my tacticals in some form of transport, and a spartan seems like a bit much for tactical muhreens

So.. I wish to take Lorgar transfigured but if I'm reading the 40k rules correctly, he can't use any (interesting) psychic powers while in a transport. Is it safe to have him footslogging (while buffing his own unit and summoning daemons, etc) or is it a good idea to pod him up the field, either in a Dreadclaw or with Orbital Assault. Trying to think of a gameplan for him and mostly coming up empty.

>>44223042
You can also take a Proteus squadron and stick them in there for maximum IRON WITHIN.

Do Legion jetbikes work exactly like non-Eldar jetbikes?

>>44220272
I don't think I follow what you're saying here. If you're working with a paint or ink-based medium, you mix grey or black into another hue to make it duller or darker. Seems pretty 1-2-1 with the truth.

>>44223366
No, they give +1T and +1 to rider's Av.

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>>44218785
Are you saying that this is a shitty piece of art?

>>44218785
Style and artistic choice. I remember reading that even in medieval times there's examples of art with proper perspective and shit, and one reason we got the silly looking stuff is more about people just preferring it.

Come on, man, people prefer their super-heroes in colourful spandex outfits, instead of anything that wouldn't be laughed at immediately if seen in real life.

>>44208824
>III Emperor's Children - 110,000 (60,000 post Isstvan)
Wasn't one of their major issues there was always few of them because they lost most of the geneseed ?

I have no idea what I'm doing, I just want to use the cool stuff I have and the BAC box. And maybe give it a siege bombardment feel?


+++ New Roster (1750pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1750pts) ++

Legion Astartes [XV: Thousand Sons]

+ HQ (675pts) +

Legion Centurion (580pts) [Power Fist (5pts), Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon (35pts)]
··Consul (25pts)
····Delegatus (25pts)
······Master of the Legion [Armoured Spearhead]
··Legion Terminator Command Squad (465pts) [Chainfist (10pts), 3x Legion Space Marine Chosen (60pts), 3x Power Fist (15pts), Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon (60pts)]
····Land Raider Phobos (260pts) [Auxiliary Drive (10pts)]

Legion Centurion (95pts) [Power Armour]
··Consul (45pts) [Master of Signal (45pts)]

+ Troops (615pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (205pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
··Legion Tactical Sergeant (20pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Power Weapon (10pts)]

Legion Tactical Squad (205pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
··Legion Tactical Sergeant (20pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Power Weapon (10pts)]

Legion Tactical Squad (205pts) [Exchange their Bolters for a Chainsword or Combat Blade, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
··Legion Tactical Sergeant (20pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Power Weapon (10pts)]

+ Elites (150pts) +

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (150pts)
··Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (75pts) [Graviton Cannon (35pts)]
··Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (75pts) [Graviton Cannon (35pts)]

+ Heavy Support (310pts) +

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (310pts) [Legion Medusa (155pts), Legion Medusa (155pts)]

>>44224508
No. That was 170+ years earlier when Fulgrim hadn't been found yet. After that there wasn't a problem.

>>44219089
The materials, really. Most of the blending you'll see done in older GD's is still far beyond anything the average person can hope to achieve, and they did it without half of the shit we use on a regular basis today.

>>44224502
Yeah, even 40k has tons of laughable aesthetics that would look hilarious in motion.

What legion would you guys be a part of?

>>44224699
The photography too. We had to learn how to take pictures of miniatures well, and the equipment wasn't the same there either.

>>44225791
Thousand Sons and Know no Fear are standalone.

Betrayer is a follow up of First Heretic.

Prospero Burns is standalone, but Thousand Sons is recommended first.

Alright anons, I'm torn between these books which /tg/ seems to hold in high regard

>First heretic
>Betrayer
>Thousand Sons + Prospero burns
>Know no fear

I want something to read and need to know which one of these is the most stand alone-ish. I know lore pretty well so I won't miss out on small details but don't want to start reading book 3 of 5 books series about subject X.

>>44225685
thousand sons
>get to be thinkers and fighters
>psy powers
> get to fuck up wolves
>mangus is a bro

until the council of mikey, it was all good in the psychic hood

>>44225828

Thanks anon. Which one would you recommend as the best one?

>>44225865
>best one

Heavily tied between Thousand Sons and Betrayer. But Thousand Sons is a bit slow in the start.

>>44223716

Yeah and working away from that is what lead to photorealistic painting

Because that's not how reality works

>>44225685

Ultramarine not present on Calth

salamander who stayed at home

>>44225862
dat geneseed fault tho

>>44225995
TBQH fami,whos GS DIDNT have faults init

>>44224558
Honestly it's a pretty funky and functional list, I'd like to play against it. The literal list itself is difficult to read, you shouldn't just copy and paste stuff from a list compiler. Lots of random brackets and ++_++, redundancy (like mentioning that 10-strong units are composed of 9 and a sergeant, instead of just saying if any extras are bought or not) and at times confusion (I have no idea what's happening in your command squad). Iron that out and it's a winner.

>>44226036

Ultramarines

>>44225908
Umm, but it does. Shadows are darker.

>>44226125

I want non painters to leave and take their muted colors with them

Do YOU guys think Sanguinus will be a FMC?

>>44226298
Ignore the random capitalized word.

>>44224558
Looks pretty decent, honestly. I've seen similar lists at my club pretty frequently. For comparison, here's what I'd field against it:
1x Siege Breaker w/ Terminator armor
2x20 man tacs with pimped sarge
3x Thudd Guns
1x10 man Tyrant Siege Terminator
2x Medusae

I love this point size. It's big enough to be really flavorful, but small enough to be easily transportable. How are you doing your Sons?

>>44226315
Jump Primarch without a doubt.

>>44226298
I hope so. I don't see why he wouldn't be. I'm imagining 2+ 4++ for his armor. Do we know the names of any of his weapons? What weapons did the Big S even use?

>>44226399
As far as I know, the only thing we have to go on are various end-game shots of him dead on the floor with a shattered sword by his side. So he'll have a sword plus the obligatory ranged option; probably some kind of assaulty wrist mounted bolter since his legion has such a hard on for them ten thousand years in the future.

>>44226385
>>44224558
I will say though, the problem with both of our lists is an almost complete lack of anti-air. I usually swap out one of my medusae for a kheres contemptor if i'm going up against my buddy's Raven Guard who have a lot of fliers. That might be a good idea for you, since you have the BaC Contemptor anyway.

>>44226399
My Sanguinus fanboy friend said he used a random Sword the Emps made.

It wasn't special outside of you know, being made by the Emps.

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For anyone who cares, BaC is getting another WD scenario this week.

>>44226399
Furthermore he was at least ML1 Precognition and he was the best fighter among the Primarchs skill wise.

I have no idea how they're going to make Big S the clear best fighter among the Primarchs.

>>44226553
This is good news, the BaC game actually looks like a lot of fun, and I've been thinking about adding in a few other races to join in the fun.

Daemons should be a fun extra, do you have any more pictures of that scenario anon?

>>44226756

No, got that from War of Sigmar.

>>44226584
WS10. How else would they do it?

>>44226812
>>44226399
Well since his sword is only S:user AP2 (in the Blood Angels Codex), I don't think that's gonna help much.

>>44226812
Create an Avatar of Khaine for 30k and make it so sanguinius is the only one with the right statline/ruleset to beat it...

>>44226584

I:8, WS:9, A:6

For every hit (not wound) Sanguinius scores, he may choose one model in combat with him to lose 1 A for each hit scored for the rest of the assault phase