So does this now tap for two anus mana or two generic mana?

>>44104806
Yes.

it now taps for <><>

>>44104806
No, because it taps for 2 mana, not 2 <> mana.
<> is a color now.

>>44104864
Colorless is a color, but generic is not I think is the best way to describe it.

>>44104864
So are you saying that Kozilek's Channeler can't be used to channel Kozilek?

>>44104806
It taps for (2), which can only be used to pay things that specifically have (2) in their cost. You can't use it to pay for things that cast, say, 1G or 3R.

>>44104896
Yes, because Wizards is fucking stupid

>>44104915
UNFUN
UNFUN


STOP SAYING UNFUN THINGS

>>44104896
Yes it can, just not for the <>

>>44104864
<> is colourless and there is nothing that makes generic mana, generic mana is cost label to indicate that any mana can be used it is not a type of mana in and of itself.

>>44104864
>>44104853
>>44104915
HOLY FUCK

Anus mana is now colorless mana.

Back when they reformatted stuff from "adds one colorless mana to your mana pool" to "(1)" people bitched about the confusion it would cause because it was the same as generic mana.

Generic mana is in the casting cost ONLY. Forever. That's the only place it will be. It can be paid with ANY type of mana.

Anus mana is colorless mana. It can be used in generic mana or when an anus is present in the casting cost.

This is nothing new.

Assume a card is:

Name (3)
Artifact
Can only be paid for with colorless mana

is now essentially:

Name <><><>
Artifact

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>>44105406
>when an anus is present in the casting cost.
Kek

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>>44104806
It taps for two anus

>>44104806
It never tapped for generic mana ever.

>>44104806
"Anus mana" is honestly the best possible name for it, solely on account of the shitstorm it's brought forth.

>>44104806
Analmana.

>>44104806
It never tapped for generic mana you turd. How hard is it for people to understand that generic mana is only ever part of a cost?

>>44104806
Nothing has ever generated generic mana, generic mana exists solely in costs.
Sol Ring generates colorless mana. The new symbol represents colorless mana. Nothing changes, except a better differential in iconography, leading to a clearer distinction of terms, rather than identical symbols for different concepts.

>>44106151
>clearer distinction

MaRo please go.

>>44106174
>identical symbols with different meanings
>different symbols with different meanings
Yes, it is clearer.

at this point I'm just going to assume anybody who doesn't understand (1) is now <> is trolling or too retarded to listen to

colorless devotion when?

>>44105829

It uses the exact same symbol (or used, now). It's no surprise people get them confused.

Plus, this is /tg/. Never underestimate how bad people are at magic.

>>44104907
is this for real

>>44104806
AAAAAAAAAND CONFIRMED AS FUCK

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>>44106446
Everything confirmed forever

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>>44106460
How people DIDN'T get this already is beyond me.

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>>44106475

Having to open and pick wastes to utilize anus mana costed cards is disgusting, hopefully we can get by with just using scions.

>>44106495
Why they didn't just replace every single basic land in Oath boosters with a Waste is beyond me. Nicely represents the destruction as well.

Snow wastes when

>>44106532
Emrakul waste could be Snow Covered Wastes

>Anus mana FINALLY confirmed to be the new generic mana
Astonishing that so many people here didn't believe this, holy shit

Dear Doctor Kozilek,
My Anus is producing Bismuth, should I be worried?
Yours,
Worried Zendikari

>>44106696
*my bismuth is producing anus

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I hope this image clarifies something, mana color doesn't mean mana symbol

There are symbols that require specific mana color (red, green, white, blue, black) or specific mana (snow, <>).
But there are symbols that require specific mana color or 2 lives, specific mana color or 2 mana of whatever color, specific mana or another specific mana, etc

>>44106815
Importantly, that is a diagram of what you can pay a COST with.

Generic can be paid with anything, snow needs snow, anus needs anus.

>>44106815
this doesn't clarify anything
also snow mana can be colored

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snowfags BTFO

>>44106871
Can you contribute to the cause and edit the image correctly?

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>>44106815
I wish they add "pay relative color or pure colorless" for devoid creatures. (3B or 3<> pic related)
Devoid is a shit mechanic confirmed once again

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>>44106910
It's better done just by the rules:
1) Mana is always either a colour (WUBRG) or colourless (<>)
2) Mana produced by any source that doesn't specify a colour (WUBRG) is Colourless (<>)
3) Mana may ALSO be Snow mana. Snow mana is always also any colour or colourless.

This then gives you the list of possible basic cost components:

Generic = (1) = Can be paid by any mana at all
White = (W) = Can only be paid by (W) mana
Blue: ditto but (U)
Black: ditto but (B)
Red: ditto but (R)
Green: ditto (G)
Colourless = (<>) = Can only be paid for by (<>) mana.
Snow = (*) = Can only be paid for by mana from a Snow permanent, of any colour or colourless.

And advanced components:

Phyrexian = (Q) = May be paid by the respective colour of mana or 2 Life. Cannot be paid for by colourless.
Hybrid Mana = (W/U) etc = May be paid for by either of the two sides. Each sides may be any colour (WUBRG) or Generic (1).

We are yet to see a card that has a cost in Colourless Phyrexian mana, though it is plausible. Ditto a Colourless Hybrid cost.

Note that Boreal Druid creates Colourless Snow mana.

>>44104806
It never tapped for generic mana in the first place you idiot.

>>44106993
>Devoid is a shit mechanic confirmed once again

It's fantastic in draft. All three devoid decks are the top three decks in BFZ limited.

Sets are designed for more than constructed.

>>44107059
But the DEVOID part is useless. Any card that references it could just say "an Eldrazi or colourless spell" rather than just "a colourless spell" and work exactly the same way.

MANA WHEN ADDED TO YOUR MANA POOL:
(W) = white mana
(U) = blue mana
(B) = black mana
(R) = red mana
(G) = green mana
(<>) = colorless mana (aka anus mana)

MANA WHEN IT'S IN A COST
(W) = paid with white mana
(U) = paid with blue mana
(B) = paid with black mana
(R) = paid with red mana
(G) = paid with green mana
(<>) = paid with colorless mana (aka anus mana)
(1) = paid with any type of mana

IT'S NOT DIFFICULT ASSHOLES

I still can get over the fact that it's actually called Anus mana and its symbol looks like a gaping anus.

WotC has really gone to [spoile]shit[/spoiler]

>>44104806
>anus mana is now confirmed to be a thing
aw lawd my sides
my FLGS is gonna be hilarious with everyone pissing off the owner with its confirmation tonight.
holy hell this is gonna be great.

How did an obvious anus slip past Hasbro?

>>44107278
You r forgot in added to pool
(X) = X anus mana

>>44106519
Didn't they say Oath would feature Full Art Basics? That chance is still very real.

>>44107617
Those Wastes are full art basics.
They might print full art plains,... as well, or they might not, they already kept their word. If they print full art plains,... they might either include BFZ basics (i.e. no new art) or new art basics.

>forcing "anus" mana this hard

Ebin Tbh Senpai :^)

Name it "C" like everyone else and be done with it.

>>44107586
(X) won't be added to the mana pool anymore. Mass colorless production will be worded like mass color production. "Add (C) to your mana pool for each..." or "Add an amount of (C) to your mana pool equal to..."

>>44107644
(<>) is anus mana
(1) is now cock mana
(X) is tight anus mana

>>44107007
>Have yet to see a colorless hybrid cost

you forgot Shadowmoor

>>44105690
I'm butthurt about the whole thing.

>>44107722
(2/W) isn't colourless hybrid. It's generic hybrid: it can be paid by either W or 2 of any colour.

(<>/W) would be colourless hybrid.

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find it ironic how the one thing Wizards pushed to reduce the confusion between "any mana" and "colorless mana" amongst new players who quickly assume how things work without much information on it is actually confusing veteran players who quickly assume how things work without much information on it

>>44104806
You can't tap for generic mana.
Generic mana is a mana cost that you can pay for with any color or colorless.

Anus mana is colorless mana, you can only pay for it with colorless mana.

>>44106668
*new colorless mana, stop adding to the ignorance on /tg/

>>44104806
The only question I have is... what the fuck is wrong with your assholes?
A healthy anus should not look like an astroid.

>>44108136
no one with any shred of experience playing magic is confused by this. Calling people on /tg "veteran" players is a joke in of itself.

>>44108136
I am only confused by how people don't seem to grasp this simple concept.

I may have understood a slight confusion at first, but even then it seemed pretty clear

>>44108902

No. It took a solid week for people to mostly grasp that Wastes didn't have a land type, and even now the occasional shit leaks through.

>>44106200
They don't really have different meanings, though anon.

>>44109130
>mana without color in your mana pool
>cost that can be paid with mana of any type

Ah yes, no difference at all.

>>44107197
There are non-Eldrazis that are devoid.

Not only that, but nitpicking with this one keyword is completely asinine and shows just how new you are.

>WAAAH I don't like this one mechanic because REASONS

>>44109130
They DO and have ALWAYS had different meanings.
There just wasn't a mana cost that REQUIRED colourless before now. Now that something needs it specifically, there's a reason to differentiate.

>>44109173
>literally just repeats himself
>sarcastic comment at the end
Are you retarded, or just underage?

>>44108716
>ass-troid

I'm having great fun reading these threads.
Why does this make so many people angry?

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>>44104806
You can't tap for generic mana

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>>44109200
All cards with Devoid on them are Eldrazi fluff-wise. Why not just have them be Eldrazi spells, like All is Dust?

>>44109547
Because Tribal is no longer a supported card type.

I believe Maro reasoned why some cards being tribal while others weren't even though they thematically should be (like Goblin Grenade not being errata'd to a Tribal Sorcery - Goblin) just added too much needless fuss to the cards.

>>44109547
Because they decided to not use the Tribal type anymore, and the Tribal type is kinda necessary to give noncreatures creature types due to how the rules work.
It also lets the Colorless Matters stuff work with things like Morph, awakened lands, and artifacts instead of being JUST Eldrazi Tribal, which is honestly a better design decision

>>44109610
I actually never understood why tribal needed to exist in the first place. Why not just use supertypes? "Eldrazi sorcery" instead of "tribal sorcery - eldrazi".

>>44109653
Creature types aren't Supertypes or Types to begin with, they're Subtypes.
Supertypes are Snow and Global.

Adding more supertypes creates baggage and doesn't interact the same way as giving spells creature subtypes.
For adding types, Goyf.
Giving them subtypes lets things work with 'search for a Goblin card.' The other two, it would have to be expanded to 'search for a Goblin, goblin, or Goblin card.'

>>44109653
More to the point, why not just Sourcery - Eldrazi? Why did the Tribal supertype ever need to exist?

>>44109749
How the rules interact with subtypes and changing them.

>>44109865
I don't suppose you could be more specific? It just seems a mystery what prevented them just giving anything and everything whatever types they want/need.

>>44109920
Seriously. I've seen MaRo and whats-his-face the rules guy say that they can't give non-creatures creature subtypes, but I never understood why.

>>44109920
>>44110113
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/426
About half way down, in the section "You're Welcome, Tarmogoyf"

>>44110197
Not this guy, but I still don't see where was the problem.

>>44110197
>Since the correlations are unique, all subtypes imply their types. If a card is a Goblin, it is by definition a creature, so "creature" hasn't needed to be said. Example: Fever Charm says "Deal 3 damage to target Wizard." Damage can't be dealt to a noncreature permanent, yet this card doesn't say "Deal 3 damage to target Wizard creature." It doesn't have to. "Wizard," by definition, implies "creature," so this shortcut can be taken.

But that actually IS how cards are written out now.

>Due to these correlations, unique subtypes can be used mechanically. Look at how the Shrine subtype was used on the Hondens, or the Locus subtype on Cloudpost. In the discussion about Planeswalkers, using their subtypes as a means to denote identity and uniqueness seemed quite promising. (All Planeswalker cards that represented Jace would have subtype "Jace," and their uniqueness rule would be based on their subtype, not their name.)

Put creature types on non-creature cards doesn't change the use of unique types. A shrine is still a shrine, a Jace is still a Jace. Something that changes a creature's type would still only effect creatures. It could just be said creature types are types that have been printed on creatures, that way you couldn't give a creature the Ajani or lair type.

>Each subtype makes flavor sense for its type. Furthermore, the subtypes don't merely describe or classify their cards, they say what those cards actually are in the Magic realm. A "Creature — Goblin Shaman" is a goblin shaman in the same way that I'm a human gamer. Honden of Infinite Rage is a Shrine.

And a Sorcery - Goblin would be magic used by and associate with goblins.

I still don't see how any of these means non-creatures can't have creature types from a rules perspective.

>>44110393
Mistform Ultimus is now a Forest Plains Locus Lair Jace Shrine Arcane Trap Equipment Aura, and is put into the graveyard due to not being attached to a creature.

>>44110475
Huh. Okay.
But making creature types into non-creature types doesn't make non-creature types into creature types. Having an Instant - Goblin doesn't mean you'll have a Creature - Goblin Aura.

>>44110475
No, because Misform Ultimus only has all creature types. Forest, Locus, Jace, Shrine, etc aren't creature types. Allowing creature types to appear on non-creature cards wouldn't suddenly make land/enchantment/etc types into creature types.

>>44104806
NOTHING EVER TAPPED FOR GENERIC MANA
FUCK
WHY IS /tg/ SO BAD AT MAGIC

>>44104896
It can. All sources that produce colorless count as <> now, it's just a new notation for the same thing.

>>44110568
So some types go on everything ever, but some are arbitrarily only on certain types, with nothing actually indicating this other than having intimate knowledge of the rules?
And this is better than only creatures having creature types because...?

>>44106475
/tg/, bad at magic, etc etc.

>>44110940
There's a list of what is officially recognised as a creature type in the rules.

>>44110940
Are you seriously suggesting that Wizards need to label types and subtypes because they're too confusing for you figure out from context?

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It's not called generic mana you autistic cunts. It's called raw mana. Like pic, uses 3 raw mana and a white mana.

>>44110975
Yes, there is. And notably, they don't go on noncreature nontribals, fancy that.

>>44111027
I've never heard it called that, by anyone.

>>44111027
No, it's called Generic Mana
107.4b Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) represent generic mana in costs. Generic mana in costs can be paid with any type of mana. For more information about {X}, see rule 107.3.

202.1a The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from his or her mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the color of any colored mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost.

Generic Mana
Mana in a cost not represented by colored mana symbols; it can be paid with mana of any type. See rule 107.4.

>>44111028
You're perfectly right. But I don't see what prevented them to put creature types on non-tribal, non-creature cards.

>>44111065
I've never heard anyone call it anything else after introducing them to the term.

>>44111273
I like the idea of anus mana being raw mana though. Colourless is just one syllable too many.

>>44111028
But what's stopping them from going on non-creature, non-tribals...?

>>44111348
You WOULD like your anus raw.

>>44104889
Except for all the things that interact with "colorless" or "colored" or "multicolored". You can't call colorless a color because it screws up many rules

>>44111602
The fact that 90% of the time it doesn't goddamn matter unless you've got Lorwyn level of tribal?
The reason they abandoned the Tribal type was because it didn't fucking matter that something was a Goblin or a Elf most the time unless they warped the entire environment around tribal. They tried putting Tribal in Innistrad and there just...wasn't a point to it. It was needless text. That's when they decided to stop using it.
Hitting 'colorless' instead of a specific creature type at least lets it play nice with other things (morph, artifacts, lands, Ugin) rather than being ONLY Eldrazi-only.

>>44111779
I'm asking about when to use it and whether or not it matters.

I was asking why the card type "tribal" was needed to give non-creature cards creature types, why there had to be "tribal sorcery - eldrazi" and not just "sorcery - eldrazi".

I've never seen any legit reason that couldn't have done it that way, or why doing it that would have involved gutting and reworking the rules

>>44109484
these happen every time, see: Devoid, ingest, processors, lack of annihilate, the 1 annihilate card, devotion, heroic, bestow, ...

>>44104806
Two anus mana.

I'm so glad that the anus mana thing I made up caught on so well

>>44108716
I call it carpool mana.

>>44108136
What times are this when people have forgotten the original definition of trolling.

So if it is anus mana, then we should call them asslands or something.

>>44115347
Not bad

>>44106815
it clarifies nothing.

the circle that says "colorless mana" includes colored mana within it, which makes things more confusing.

>>44109232
You might want to work on your reading comprehension.

>>44106815
That circle is wrong you asshat.

If i have 8 forests and a sol ring can i cast new kozilek?

>>44115716
Yes.

Wait, are people actually confused by this? This isn't complicated at all. Diamond symbol means colorless. Basic lands produce colored mana, Wastes produce colorless, and any of them can be used to pay for a generic cost.

>>44104864
>being this dumb
i hope you're baiting

>>44115783
But le funnay anus meme :>

>>44107007
>Phyrexian = (Q)
Q is the untap symbol, you double nigger.

>>44116964
I still don't get how that's an anus.

>>44109547
At first they simply wanted to use the color indicator. However, if you have a colorless (transparent) color indicator and the art below is green or red, it becomes confusing. So they decided to write it on the card.

However they could have written "~ is colorless." and be done with it. But devoid gives a tribal feel and yes you can say devoid is the Eldrazi keyword. You know it is Eldrazi because it is devoid.

You can see that older cards like Ancient Kavu (http://magiccards.info/in/en/136.html) which not received an errata to read: Ancient Kavu becomes devoid until end of turn.

And it is a really unnecessary keyword, because absolutely nothing interacts with the devoid keyword.

>>44119822
The other purpose of the keyword is that when they just wrote '~ is colorless' they got a LOT more people saying that, say, Blistepod was colorless AND green. Making it a keyword means they can be not 100% rules-accurate with the reminder text - and instead go with the more normal English 'this has no colors'
Yes, there's still some problems with people going it's both, but a lot less than there would've been.

Why doesn't magic have purple mana? Or Table Mana? OR Unspecified Mana? Or Unspecific Mana? Or Thought Mana?

When will this garbage decision making end?

>903.9. If mana would be added to a player’s mana pool of a color that isn’t in the color identity of that player’s commander, that amount of colorless mana is added to that player’s mana pool instead.

So, unless they change something, a Ghave player could pay for Kozilek by choosing to add Red mana to their mana pool.

>>44104806
>>44104864

People like you are why wizards can't use shroud or flanking now.

>>44119600
It's cause the sides are beveled. When I first looked at it it looked like an anus to me
Also a lot of shitposting has come of it

>>44120930
Yet again, the Rules Committee fucks everything up.

>>44120930
Not really a problem. This required a lot of set up and at this point you could ask why you not simply include one of the really useful lands which can produce colorless mana.

This rule is so seldom in use, you can basically ignore it.

>>44120930
A simple hotfix would be if a player could choose between different colors of mana to add, they are required to choose one in their colorsm

>>44122153
>why you not simply include one of the really useful lands which can produce colorless mana.

You're saying that like people would need to go out of their way to add Chromatic Lantern to their deck.

The point is, most EDH decks will automatically have the option without any additional effort.

>>44108136
>confusing veteran players
I think you're confusing /tg/ers with veteran players, a mistake of the highest order. Remember kids, the vast majority of /tg/ THINKS they're good at Magic, when the reality couldn't be farther from the truth, as exemplified by the "LE SPHINCTER MANA IS A SIXTH COLOOOUR XDXDDDD!!!11!" posters.

>>44122153

Just fucking cut it.

Mana burn got fucking cut for the same reason.

>>44122503

If you can't remember that colorless mana used to be written out, then you aren't a veteran magic player.

You are a person who used to play.

I want to cast an artifact. It has (3) as the cost. Do I use 3 any mana, or do I need three of the <> mana.

My understanding is I use any mana. Only future cards, that specifically say <> in the cost, require <> mana.

>>44104856
Bet that WotC drops this after this set ala the Tombstone icon with Flashback cards

>>44122699
3 of any mana.

(3) in a cost indicates 3 generic mana (any mana).

>>44115783
I think the issue is with previously existing cards that say "Add (1) to your mana pool" and whether or not that (1) counts as <>

>>44122699
The number can ne paid with whatever. Its generic mana.

Anus symbols like on new kozilek are colorless only. So he would need 2 colorless and 8 of any other type of mana

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>>44122858
WotC is going to show off a bunch of reprints to make it clear.

>>44123490
My question is will there still be cards that do tap for generic mana?

>>44123536
No. There never technically were.

>>44122954

So Urzatron now makes all <> mana?

>>44123769
Correct. Also, painlands can make <>, boreal druid can make <>, any card that says "make (1)" now says "make <>"

>>44105690
What shitstorm? I have no idea how anyone could have a problem with this.

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Oh my jesus...I can't believe how many of you are having trouble with this.

A diamond being added to your mana pool is the same as (1) being added. It means 1 colorless mana. The same way a little water drop means 1 blue mana.

A diamond in a cost represents a cost that can ONLY be paid with colorless mana, like how a little water drop means you can only pay the cost with blue mana.

You fuckers are the reason we can't have time spiral 2.0

>>44106815
0/10 snow mana can be colored.

>>44107295
>>44107532
You people should really get that checked. It's a diamond. An anus does not look like a diamond.

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>>44123536
As has been said, nothing has ever tapped for generic mana, because you can't tap for generic mana - generic mana is only for costs. See >>44111105
It was only at Odyssey that they decided to start using the generic mana cost symbols for colorless mana. Before that, they spelled out the words 'colorless mana' on every card that produced it. Then they decided to make Nantuko Elder and thought the phrase 'Add G and one colorless to your mana pool' was dumb, so switched to the system most people are familiar with.
Here's Yavimaya Coast through the ages, as an example, including a mockup of what it'll be like once Oath hits.

>>44109610
Getting rid of tribal was fucking stupid.

>>44124415
The fact that so many people in this thread are having issues with this change I'm not surprised that a whole new card type that shared subtypes with another card type was too hard for the casuals to understand.

But I agree, love my the few tribal cards that were printed that are actually playable. Sad that it never stuck around.

>>44111959
>I've never seen any legit reason that couldn't have done it that way, or why doing it that would have involved gutting and reworking the rules
And you never will.

>>44124352
There is no such thing as snow mana

>>44124620
We've always been at war with Otaria

I DON'T LIKE THIS CHANGE!!!

>>44124794
I DO FUCK YOU

wastes are going to go away after ogw right?
this is the set I've been looking most forward to and now I think this shit will ruin this set for me.

>>44125067

they are as much a part of the game as snow-covered islands are.

>>44125067
Why on earth would wastes be the tipping point

>>44105008
this is wrong

>>44104806
small note on anus mana and EDH

assuming WotC continues some small amount of support for this and because they have talked about how this is retroactive to old cards I believe they will. This is a slight buff to mono colored commanders as they can run a psuedo-second color.

Which i not a huge note, because I expect this will be a very niche "color" for a long time but hey just some food for thought.

>>44125300
It's a big boon to colorless commanders as you have access to some basic lands

>>44125499
Kind of. I run Kozilek EDH and a main part of the deck are all the colourless utility lands. I'm thinking I'll run about 5 wastes just to provide some resilience against that fucking green "exile all non-basics and artifacts, get a basic for each non-basic" card that ruins everything.

>>44120930
I'm not sure you can choose to add red. From Mana Confluences and the likes you mean?

>>44125300
Honestly, it's the same pseudocolor they've been able to run all along.
They've been able to run artifacts since forever.
They've been able to run Eldrazi and All Is Dust and shit since Rise.
They've been able to run Scour from Existence since this fall.
Nothing about C changes this, other than the fact that now some cards actually make you pay attention to your Crappy Mana. It's still doing the same shit it was doing before - they just made it so you can't run it in every deck ever. They can make a six-cost Eldrazi that's GOOD and not have to worry about it dominating the format.
>>44125633
At the moment, you can add Red or Blue as Ghave and you get colorless. Hopefully the rules will change when Oath's released.
Hopefully.
Unfortunately, the Rules Committee have a history of being Fucking Retarded so who the fuck knows.

>>44104806

>Anus Mana

Please use the correct new name for colorless mana: Goatse. Sol Ring adds two goatses to your mana pool when tapped.

>>44125683
Calm down on the maymay, Paypay.

>>44125720
it's titty mana (.) (.)

>>44124289
I have a friend who gets super mad when I call it anus mana. He doesn't go on /tg/ or know what it is, so when I called it that he just got so mad.

>>44124620
Oh my sweet summer child.

>>44126108
Is there some meme about snow mana i'm missing?

>>44111959
The rules as written didn't allow a noncreature card to have a creature type. R&D was concerned that rewriting the rules to allow creature types to be appended to any type of card was a dangerous precedent and didn't have a strong enough automatic distinction between what was and was not a creature type any more. They decided creating a new type that was not a creature, but allowed for cards to have creature types was clearer.

>>44125067
Maybe, maybe not.
I wouldn't expect to see them in every set from here on out, but don't be surprised if they're in every set with the Eldrazi. Depending on how things play out, I'm not even sure they'd be out of place in an Artifact heavy set trying to play on colorless mana. It wouldn't surprise me to see a New Phyrexian Wastes at some point.

If colorless mana is pushed and there are cards that require colorless mana, wont cards (specially lands) that add colorless mana have the same value as those that add colored mana?

>Meanwhile in Wizards HQ...

Maro: The internet is having a shitfit trying to understand a new symbol for colorless mana, cancel the plans for the new Time Spiral. We still need New World Order.

>>44126388
More like
>hahahahaha dude, did you see those nerds having a shitfit over this? We should do this more often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-eWvDPZX8

Skip to 6m30s, they walk your right through it.

>>44122705
"Add (X) to your mana pool, X being the number of Y you control" is slightly shorter than "add an amount of (<>) equal to the number of Y you control to your mana pool." so that would be my guess too.

>>44124472
>the casuals
>implying we give a damn

>>44125057
NO YOU DON'T FUCK ME

>>44126461
Why could they just go from:
"Add (X) to your mana pool, X being the number of Y you control"
To:
"Add X {<>} to your mana pool, X being the number of Y you control."

>>44126461
>>44126527
"Add one (<>) to your mana pool for each Y you control"

>>44126537
Almost right; you just don't need the word 'one' in there.

>>44126537
Just use the battle hymn wording and swap out R for C easy

>>44126537
Yeah. Works.

>>44125300
>>44125640
allow me to clarify

Having cards with <> symbol in their casting cost will be similar to adding an additional color to edh decks. And while it may be difficult for the prevalent tri-color decks to add a fourth color (barring esper artifacts of course). since you can't fetch wastes you would need to use terramorphic or evolving wilds. I mean pain lands sol ring and reliquary tower doesn't give that much. With the prior seeing fringe play and the later getting targeted with extreme prejudice already.

>>44126703
It really isn't.

All EDH decks can play artifacts.
All EDH decks can play colourless-Eldrazi-stuff released before Oath (Old-Kozi, All is Dust etc).
All EDH decks can run artifact mana producers (Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, etc) and run new Kozi.

Nothing has changed. Sure, it's slightly easier for Green commanders to do because they can Ramp-for-Wastes. But that's it.

>>44106380
>Plus, this is /tg/. Never underestimate how bad people are at magic

Yeah no kidding, I think in future when people tell me nerds are more intelligent than normies I'm just going to point to how much confusion this all caused.

>>44126760
The other big EDH benefit is that colourless decks now have a basic they can run without having to compromise their colourless theme.

They're also full art, which is nice.

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>>44106863
Anus needs colorless*

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Okay, hopefully this should clear it up for anyone who still isn't getting it.

>>44126941
You under estimate how will-fully stupid the people who don't get it are being.

>>44126967
I was figuring pictures would help people who are having trouble with words.

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>>44126941
Excuse me Sir, can you show us where Wizzards post this change and what cards will be afected by it?

Because Kozilek need 8<><> to cast. I think that <> is just a TYPE of mana, like snow with the diference that snow mana may be colored.

>>44127117
This is just about errata.
Questions about new cards should be directed to @MarkRosewater.

>>44126703
See >>44120930

It would actually be incredibly simple to add cards with colorless mana costs to a tricolor EDH deck, assuming you have a decent number of "any color" mana sources.

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Behold, you gigantic morons.

>>44127272
Did they already update it on MTGO or is that just the hundredth mockup?

>>44126941

But what will this do for cards that cost less than 3 with the symbol and Trinisphere?

>>44127346
That's literally just a photoshop.
I think he just cropped the <><> from Kozilek's casting cost and pasted it.

>>44127272
2/10 didn't change the name to Anus ring or the flavor text to:
"Lost to time is the Artificer's art of trapping light from a distant star in an Anus of purest gold."

>>44128145
If a spell costs one colorless mana, Trinisphere will make it cost one colorless mana and two generic mana.

All you need to do is think of the diamond symbol as though it were a tree. It behaves exactly like any other mana symbol. There could even be a Devotion to Colorless.

>>44128341

So a card that costs <> or 1<> with a Trinisphere in play will make it cost 2<> respectively?

>>44128341
I once theorised what would happen if Eldrazi attacked Theros. The idea was that their presence and destruction would create a God of Destruction. Not a god of death (Erobos) or murder (Mogis), but pure destruction. And then that god would be the only thing strong enough to take on the Eldrazi themselves on the plane.

Kronus, God of Doom {6}{<>}{<>}
Legendary Creature - God (7/7)
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to colourless is less than seven, Kronus isn't a creature.
Creatures you control have Anihiliator 1
If a card would leave the battlefield or enter the graveyard, exile it instead.

>>44128447
Yes.

>>44128544

Alright that clears things up for me personally then.

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>>44127346
MaRo confirmed, at least

>>44126941
This is exactly what I was looking to make myself, bless whoever made it.

>>44125608
Wave of Vitriol rapes colorless decks.

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>>44128447
>respectively

>>44124335
This
It's fucking disgusting
... But the exact same shit I heard back when they switched from colorless to the number symbol.

/r/equesting all the screencaps of people claiming goatse mana was a new color of mana.

>>44106495
Wastes is a basic.
Stores provide basics for limited.
Can't think of a reason they wouldn't provide Wastes as well.

>>44133025
In the video they said you'll have to draft/pull Wastes if you're playing Limited.

>>44133025
it's in a common slot as opposed to a land slot.

I feel like a lot of confusion here is just caused by the name "colorless mana." If they had said "Hey, we're making a new color of mana. It's Purple mana! Anything that used to tap for (1) now taps for (P)." everything would be fine. If you think about <> like a new color instead of thinking about it as colorless, it all makes sense.

I think the biggest blunder that wizards is making is not that they're trying to introduce a new color, but that they're taking an idea that has been working for 20+ years and trying to make THAT into a new color.

Again, if they had just made (P), everything would've been cool. But taking (1) and making it <> makes things way more complicated than it needs to be.

>>44133668
Colorless isn't a color. Something that produces one mana of any color (like Birds of Paradise) cannot make colorless mana.

Mana that can be produced: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless.

Mana that can be found in costs: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless, Generic.

Only two things are changing here: colorless mana now has its own symbol, and colorless mana can now appear in the costs of certain cards (like Kozilek).

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>>44133668
Jesus.

>>44133668
Thank god you're not designing for Magic.

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>>44128195

>>44134336

It's worse, really. He isn't designing magic, but people with his level of "intelligence" are who wizards has to appeal to.

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>>44134638
>but people with his level of "intelligence" are who wizards has to appeal to

Oh, fuck you're right.
Magic HAS to be dumbed down to be understood by most of its players.

>>44134673

Reminder that mechanics like shroud and flanking are too complicated for the illiterate retards who compose the majority of magic's playerbase.

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>>44134765
Flanking was too good for this world.

It's not even that complex, people.
Colorless now has a symbol. That's it. Costs with that symbol can only be satisfied with colorless.
Everything that produces colorless mana produces that many colorless mana symbols.
There is no such thing as producing generic mana.

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>>44133668

>>44134910

There never was such a thing.

They just decided to overload the generic mana symbol to mean colorless when added to your mana pool during Odyssey block, noticed that they need a new symbol if they wanted to put colorless only in mana costs, and made that symbol represent colorless mana itself.

It's like people raging about combat no longer using that stack.

The game changes, you just didn't know of the time before you started (or forgot) so toughen the fuck up.

>>44134765
WHY FLANKERS NOT KILL OTHER FLANKERS! ME CONFUSE????

CREATURE CAN NO BE TARGET? OKAY, ME TARGET. WHAT? WHAT YOU MEAN ME NO CAN TARGET???

>>44135771

Flanking would be a better designed mechinic if it triggered on block and didn't care about the other creature having flanking.

Do you really need the mundane dagger equipment card to not work when you equip it to an elephant?

>>44109484
Return to Zendikar block has been specifically designed to make people angry. And it greatly succeded at it.

>anus snow mana

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>>44104864
>>44104907
>>44127117

>>44106475
>How people DIDN'T get this already is beyond me.
Autism which caused mtg retards to overthink a concept that was about as straightforward as it could possibly be

>>44106487
That second wastes is sexy

>>44106495

You don't have to use Wastes...there's a shitload of cards that produce colorless...

>>44133668
i agree

>>44109484

Because there are so many 8 years old who are too dumb to understand the difference between colorless and generic.

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>>44134030
Ok so before:
>Mana that can be produced: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless.

>Mana that can be found in costs: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Generic.

Now

>Mana that can be produced: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless.

>Mana that can be found in costs: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless, Generic.

Wow wizards, such innovation. Definitely not the must mundane, boring distinction being made in an already underwhelming, parasitic block. Jesus what a mess, with all the effort they've made in the past 4 years to bring in new customers they sure are doing everything they can to push them away now.
>discontinue core
>completely change set/block paradigm
>meme rhino standard
>BfZ in its entirety

And all in 1 year. If I could I would fire whatever board of directors approved this shit and slap MaRo across the face.

>>44125067
1. This change is awesome
2. It looks like this change will be permanent as we know that they'll reprint filter lands.

>>44125149

No. This time around it's not parasitic and it'll feature of the whole game not just a block/set.

>>44136948
Hmn. I already understood how people think it works.

But your description basically does paint it as a new color.

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>>44136948

>>44137213
Because it /is/ a new color.

That happens to be called 'colorless'

>>44136948
>>discontinue core
Coresets suck. Nothing of value was lost there.

>>completely change set/block paradigm
Which is in fact a GOOD THING. Player like this change since it brings fresh things.

>>meme rhino standard
First right thing you say.

>>BfZ in its entirety
BfZ seems to be OK for Limited and OGW makes a great first impression. Dunno what you're even talking about.

>>44137213
>>44137353

>implying he was wrong

Colorless doesn't work like a new color. It has no place in the color pie and it won't work like that technically. So stop bitching about changes. Jesus Christ.

>>44137376

WTF. Fucking noobs GTFO and learn the fucking game.

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>>44137468
Explain to me, using small words if it tickles your fancy, how anus mana is mechanically different from mana from the color pie.

>[color] mana can be used for [color] cost, or for generic cost
>anus mana can be used for anus cost, or for generic cost

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>>44137778

>>44136948
Have you been playing magic for two months?

Have you played magic ever?

>>44137778
Protection from colored spells won't protect you from colorless spells.
If colorless were a color, it would.

>>44133025
They didn't provide snow-covered lands during Coldsnap (or Ice Age).

>>44137947
Does MaRo pay you to tongue his anus or do you just do it for free?

>>44135964

Go away Maro

>>44136603

>not liking bizmuthlands

>>44138272

>Does MaRo tongue you to pay his anus mana or do you just do it for free?

>>44105406
Generic mana is present in activated abilities as well, but yes, it only exists in costs.

>>44106487
>Can run any number similar to normal basics
>Only two artworks
>Can't pick them up after drafting, instead need to draft them from packs
>2 per pack, taking up a common slot

What a waste.

>>44138272
Nah he just needs to tap sol ring for it

>>44138868
I thought what he said was that they are taking up two common slots in the set?

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>>44133305
considering the old Sol Ring explicitly said "taps for two colourless mana" it's a safe bet to assume a (2) is equivalent to a <><> unless WotC attempts to revise it; in which it would be completely unnecessary

>>44144658
meant to quote>>44104806

Wait, what the fuck happened with magic while I was busy having kids?

Colorless mana is now its own symbol? How the fuck do they plan to depict 10+ mana cost cards now? Just not make them anymore?

I like how before the spoilers came out people said "it would be cool if they made cards that require colorless mana" and now suddenly its a 180 and everyone is being so difficult.

stay contrarian /tg/

personally i think its bad for new players, but good from the perspective of a long time player.

>>44144717
look at the fucking spoiler card, its 8 <><>, not <><><><>etc.

>>44144717

Let me guess, you stopped playing magic because it was too complicated, right? Too much math? Maybe you are illiterate?

>>44144743
I don't recall people ever saying that a year ago, but I will agree it sounds like an interesting change, for sure.

>>44144776
Nah, I honestly was busy having a kid. She's a year old now. And I also hated how wizards seems hellbent in making combo decks be a distant memory, so fuck that.

>>44138074

Uh, I have a bunch of Snow-Lands from Coldsnap.

>>44137395
core sets were great, what the shit are you talking about? best ways to learn a color without bullshit mechanics confusing new players. also had general good stuff sprinkled about.

also, those are like, your opinnions, man

Ugin, Nettle Sentinel, the colorless lords, all interact with Devoid, and that's just from Standard. Are you retarded?

>>44144873
Yes, and those were not provided by the store, and had to be drafted from the packs. You could not just add a bunch of snow lands to your deck, only the regular Plains, Islands, Swamps, Mountains, and Forests, exactly how Wastes are being handled in draft.
>>44144717
The colorless symbol is only being used when adding colorless mana to your mana pool (like in Sol Ring) or on specific cards that require colorless mana rather than generic mana.
As a note, the rules ALREADY note the difference between generic mana (which is only a cost, and can be paid with anything, and cannot be added to your mana pool) and colorless mana (which, prior to Oath, had not been used for costs due to sharing symbols with generic mana costs, and thus had only shown up as something that was added to your mana pool)
Wizards has confirmed that all cards that added colorless to your mana pool will now add C to your mana pool.
Sol Ring taps for CC. Rosheen Meanderer taps for CCCC that can only be spent on X. Eldrazi Temple taps for C OR for CC with restrictions. Channel lets you pay life to add C to your mana pool.
Sol Ring still costs 1 of anything -w, u, b, r, g, c, whatever.

>>44144854
they dont know how to make combo balanced, so they refuse to test anything.

I think the only way they could get back into making combo cards is if they forced a new tribal mechanic too hard and actually made it playable.

every set i pray for goblins to be a real deck again.

>>44145081
Nettle Sentinel does the opposite of interact with devoid. fair point on the others, though.

>>44145169
They don't know how to make shitty creature decks that take 5-6 turns to beat an opponent beat combos, is what you mean. They literally sacrificed combo to let slower, shittier decks get limelight. Efficient and good creature decks that win within 3-5 turns have always shown a good competitive edge even in the most combo heavy metas, and control decks are always a consistent showing with an almost niche percentage. But nope,mkill combo, let shittier decks be playable. Again, fuck that.

WHAT ABOUT ELEMENTAL RESONANCE?

>>44145295
>enchanted permanent has mana cost 2G = add <><>G to mana pool
>enchanted permanent has mana cost 2<> = add <><><> to mana pool

What about it could possibly be confusing to you? What mechanic having to do with the definition of the terms "generic mana" and "colorless mana" needs to be further expanded upon beyond what has been explained literally hundreds of times since the official reveal of <>? What, damn you, what!?

>>44145563
why would we read 3<> as <><><><> in this one situation?

>>44145292
what, combo is alive in every format that isn't standard, and standard is balls anyway

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>>44145619
Maybe you should look at what the card actually does first.

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>>44145712
just pointing out that Grizzly Bears' cost isn't <>G, so why would you add <>G if you enchanted it with Elemental Resonance?

>>44145666
You can't fool me, satan, everyone knows wizards is actively killing off combo decks in all formats it can, with modern essentially being a constructed meta at this point.

>>44145803
You literally cannot add generic mana to your mana pool, only colorless mana. Colorless mana is now represented by <>, so you add <>G to your mana pool from a Grizzly Bears enchanted by Elemental Resonance.

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>>Anus mana
>>Teammate spells
>>Oath confirmed as buttsex expansion

>>44145619
Because that's the only reasonable way to interpret the phrase "mana equal to [its] mana cost", since there is no such thing as generic mana.

Its pronounced "less than greater than" mana, anus ring produces 2 less than greater than mana

>>44146313
Why is ◇ suddenly less than greater than?
There's only one symbol not two.
It's a diamond, not angles.
It is 'Add two diamonds to your mana pool', because Wizards recently made a contract with De Beers, and you need real authenticated Magic brand diamonds to add diamonds to your mana pool (including the errata'd diamonds)

>>44145295
>>44145563
>>44145859
I think that since Elemental Resonance adds a card's cost to the mana pool, using E.R. may be the only time you can add generic mana to your mana pool. Then you can use this generic mana only on generic mana costs. I expect a clarification in the gatherer about this.

>>44146506
>using E.R. may be the only time you can add generic mana to your mana pool

No, because you literally can't. The game rules do not allow you to add "generic mana" to your pool, only colorless. Elemental Resonance also doesn't allow you to add hybrid mana (says so right on the card), it doesn't allow you to add phyrexian mana, and it doesn't allow you to add "as an additional cost to cast this card, sacrifice a creature" mana.

>>44146539
I would love Sacrifice A Creature mana

>>44146539
They will need to add a clarification about the generic mana then.
You can't add hybrid or phyrexian mana as such, you have to add one of the two parts of hybrid mana and the non-life part of phyrexian mana. "Sac a creature" is not a mana cost, it's an additional cost, so of course you can't add it.

>>44146602
The concept of adding generic mana, as opposed to colorless mana, to your mana pool is just as ridiculous as adding "sac a creature mana," because neither exist. The types of mana are white, blue, black, red, green, and colorless.

>>44145803
Because there are 3 types of mana:
colored mana, colorless mana and generic mana.

Generic mana can only be a cost and is never in your mana pool, so there are two possible rulings to this situation:
1. You add one green and that is it.
2. You add one green and an additional mana which must have the feature that it is colorless (aka colorless mana).

Since you always played it this way, I would assume wizard goes for ruling 2. However they might switch to ruling one (which is unlikely but possible)

>>44146655
You're confusing the poor bastards. There are six types of mana >>44146653 and generic is not one of them.

>>44146655
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GENERIC MANA.

"Generic" is not a type of mana. It's a type of mana COST. Just like there is no such thing as Phyrexian mana, or hybrid mana.

>>44144717
It comes down to the distinction between colorless mana and "generic mana costs." As far as all other spells in the history of the game are concerned, nothing has changed except that colorless mana sources like Sol ring will have their formatting changed to show them tapping for anus mana. (which is mechanically identical to how things always were, except with a shitty symbol)

Some of the new cards like the new Kozilek essentially use anus mana as a sixth color. When you see the anus in the casting cost, then you MUST use anus mana to pay for the anus cost.

The autists will come out of the woodwork to say "it's not like a sixth color." However the most important aspect of the colored cost of spells is how it affects the composition of your deck's mana base, and in that respect anus spells are exactly like a sixth color because they influence your mana base as much as any other color (arguably more so due to weaker support for anus mana in dual lands and the inability for color fixers like darksteel ingot/birds of paradise to produce anus mana). It is only in the fringe cases that rarely come up like sunburst, protection: colored, etc where the presence of anus in the casting cost doesn't act like a sixth color.

Generic mana does not exist. It's just a term that means "you can use any type of mana to pay for this"

>>44146506
HOLY SHIT SENPAI, I WILL QUOTE HOW THE CARD WORKS IF I ABSOLUTELY MUST:

>5/1/2006 If the enchanted permanent's mana cost is {2}{W}{U}, this Aura's controller adds {2}{W}{U} to his or her mana pool.

{2} has ALWAYS meant two colorless mana in respect to adding mana to your mana pool. Now that it has its own symbol, {2} in this respect will mean {C}{C}, the rules will be updated to:

>1/22/2016 If the enchanted permanent's mana cost is {2}{W}{U}, this Aura's controller adds {C}{C}{W}{U} to his or her mana pool.

<> = COLORLESS PHYSICAL MANA IN MANA POOL
1,2,X, etc. = ANY MANA IN A COST FOR A CARD

GET IT?

>>44145295
What about it? Nothing is being changed--it'll keep functioning the same way it always has.

Generic mana was never a thing, generic mana costs were always a thing, and colorless mana costs have never been a thing until OGW. And yet Elemental Resonance has functioned all this time.

>>44146846
No need to shout. I'm still unconvinced and awaiting the gatherer update. Because if it is the way you mean it (which might be correct, we'll see) you will be able to transmute colored mana into colorless mana: You could cast the permanent with {R}{R}{W}{U} and then add {C}{C}{W}{U} to your mana pool with E.R.

Plot Twist: <> mana can only be used to summon new kozilek and nothing else

>>44146980
I am correct you imbecile, there should not even be a debate over this. I am literally just taking the definition of what <> means and applying it to the old card.

>you will be able to transmute colored mana into colorless mana: You could cast the permanent with {R}{R}{W}{U} and then add {C}{C}{W}{U} to your mana pool with E.R.

Yeah, and? Did you think the spell originally only gave you the mana you spent to cast it? What sort of thought process is that? The effect of Elemental Resonance has ALWAYS made colorless mana, and it will STILL make colorless mana after the release of <>. There are no more questions left about how <> works, you can see the official reveal and explanation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-eWvDPZX8.

Go ahead and watch this so you can stop actively making the /tg/ is bad at Magic meme a reality.

>>44144979

Original coresets were boring because they only contained the same reprints again and again.

>>44145159
>exactly how Wastes are being handled in draft.

Sure, but you may play non-basics that produce colorless or simply offer your tokens.

I can't wait to see how Grinning Ignus's errata reads.

>>44148236
{R}, Return Grinning Ignus to its owner's hand: Add {<>}{<>}{R} to your mana pool. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

Why wait?

>>44148236
(R), Return Grinning Ignus to its owner's hand: Add (anus)(anus)(R) to your mana pool. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

>>44147899
I remember being brand new and buying a lot of a core set. It was a pretty good deal, since it intentionally had a lot of staples.

The next year, there was another core set. I figured the cards would be different, so I bought some. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered it was mostly the same shit I had before.

Core sets are only good for very new players to play casually with. If I knew then what I knew now, I'd have just bought whatever the newest expansion was (Invasion, maybe?) instead.

>>44148384
The main issue with core set was that new players didn't buy much of it. Even if it was designed for them, they didn't knew that, so mostly they just bought the latest set no matter what. Worse, core set didn't have much flavour (Origin being an exception), so they were even less attractive to new players than regular set.

>>44145970
2hg is gonna be fun