Possible new Oath of the Gatewatch leak/spoiler. Looks to be

>Looks to be a pre-release promo.
they're probably doing those the same as BfZ, i.e. any rare or mythic can be a promo.

4 mana 4/4's is a good deal, combined with mana ramping, in the right colors for Landfall decks... combined with "reusable" landfall.

seems like a legit standard card.

using the "Spell" lands mainly the Red first strike land you can give two creatures 1+1+ first strike and trample each turn without using a single spell.

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The other Oath leak.

>>44027619
Probably.

>"welp, we blew our hype load with the Expeditions and our next set up Expeditions won't be nearly as sought after as the lands in BFZ, what do we do!"

>"guess we have to print ... Good magic cards..."

they were so transparent and now its obvious, BFZ struck a bad chord and the Expeditions plummeted in value quickly, and now in the 2nd set.. wow good cards, what a shock!

>>44027944
>Implying they don't design sets months before the release of any part of the block.

Not that I totally disagree.

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And there's obviously these things.

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This one may or may not be real. If it is then it's confirmed that (1) is becoming <>.

Also filterlands as Expeditions, which everyone saw coming, but that's not the interesting part of this.

>>44027977
I know that, anon, I am saying they PURPOSEFULLY phoned in BFZ because they new Expeditions would carry the set.

that way they didn't waste any constructed-level design space time, and could just immediately worry about the 2nd set.

what i'm suggesting is in line with what you stated, and that just makes it fucking bullshit scam-worthy really.

Expeditions were clearly the "last minute" adition to GIdeon and Battle-lands.. the set.

>>44028039
Well, if >>44028029 is true then it kinda invalidates what you're saying because they're still printing expedition.

>>44028029
of course its real, no one is going to fake a fucking foiling and holo-gram expedition "filtering land" that also has spot on artwork for the set its in (that is clearly Seagate).

the thing is, no one gives a fuck about Filitering lands.

>>44028072
no it doesn't, what I said was the first batch of Expeditions would be the lands people sought after, and after that their load is spent, sot hey used them on the weak BFZ set because there isn't any playables in it.

now we have Filter lands, lands no one uses.

>>44028029
>Filter lands

so.. 10 dollar expeditions then?

whats next? Ravnica Gates?

>>44028334
>10 dollar expeditions then?

Filterlands by themselves are more expensive than that. I'd say take however much the specific filterland is and then tack on $5 to $10 on it.

>>44028359
so 20ish bucks for an expedition.

rather get any standard rare foil and especially any mythic foil over it.

what a waste of time.

>>44028029
so when are we getting our Expedition Terramorphoic Expanse?

can't be Evolving wilds, that's standard playable!

>>44028334
Shadowmoor block filter lands are on average more expensive than RTR block shocklands. So i ask you. Why the hell would the expedition forms of filter lands be priced under $40-50 at minimum?

>>44028334
>>44028402

Twilight Mire alone is $30, so I'm not sure why you'd value an expedition version so low.

>>44028029

neat

>>44028029
ERRATA CONFIRMED
SNOWFAGS BLOWN THE FUCK OUT

>>44028625

Maybe the cool snow will soothe their shredded anuses.

>>44028507
>>44028510
rarity over playablity here.

no one actually uses filter lands anymore, so no hype will be generated for shit cards.

>>44028625
The fact that Wizards is doing it your way doesn't make it any less retarded.

>>44029216
Of all the possible interpretations of ◇, this was the most logical and most consistent with what they've stated they wanted to do and what they've done in the past.
How is it retarded compared to 'it's like snow'?

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Okay, someone found the art for the supposed Mystic Gate expedition online so it could very well be fake.

>>44029685
Of course it was online already retard.
It was requested by Wizards for the book Battle for Zendikar: The Art

http://www.artofmtg.com/art/battle-for-zendikar-art-14/

If anything that confirms 200% that the card is real since the art was indeed commisioned by Wizard.

>>44029764
I forgot that book even existed. My bad.

>>44028029
Calling fake based upon anus-mana symbol alone, that would be the stupidest change to the game possible.

>>44028715
>EDH

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>>44029267
Retarded timing to solve what is basically a non-existent problem. I have not met any of these people confused by the difference between colorless and generic mana. I have met lots of people who think a formatting change mid-block is an ugly design choice.

>>44030204
you aren't convincing me to buy any boxes of Gatewatch, anon.

>>44030523
I, on the other hand, have met quite a few people who have had a problem with it when starting out. Yes, it's dumb to change it midblock. Nobody's saying otherwise. It's fucking retarded and should've been done either with BfZ or with Origins (what with the Painlands).
The only reason I can think of is to try to pull of SURPRISE KOZILEK again. That's literally it.

>>44030604
I'm not trying to, just saying there is a demand for them

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Is it me or is WotC having a leak problem?

>>44030778
WoTC isn't exactly the tightest run ship, anon.

>>44030778
Unless the "leaks" are actually WotC at work themselves. Think about it.

>>44030935
then they failed, while the Red/Green card is bretty good, it isn't hype worthy, same with the others.

Kozi doesn't really beat out Ulamog as the frontrunner for the ramp deck, and maybe, maybe might make a 1 of in it.

so if they are trying to razzle dazzle us into tote's buying Gatewatch, they should start with cards that people aren't going to say "might go in my brew!"

then again, WoTC doesn't really understand its own games meta, in M15 they thought we'd be playing First Response.

>>44031009
Dude, I still remember the article which promised a card that "while costing XXBBBB is sure to make a massive impact in Standard" or something to that effect.

To this day, I don't remember Empty the Pits being anything more than a junk mythic.

>>44031060
>they had a chance to print a Death Cloud with Delve on it
>they didn't take it
>instead we got piece of shit Empty the Pits

Disappointing.

>>44031060
I saw it resolve and then the opponent died because Empty the Pits puts them in tapped for some reason.

>>44028029
MY DICK
I would buy a full cycle of filter expeditions
Grove of the Burnwillows expedition when?

>>44031110
>In some alternate universe we got Death Cloud with delve
>In that universe I'm chaining Death Clouds off of each other by delving all the shit I just sacced

>>44031166
for what purpose? EDH?

>>44031110
>>44031150
Seriously, when you look at all the other black X spells out there, there are so many better options, Death Cloud just being the more obvious one. I really don't get how Death Cloud is OK at XBBB and Empty the Pits needs a whole extra black mana and X. The delve isn't THAT amazing on it. And shit, the only time it can ever really be used is during your opponents end step, because they enter tapped. Heaven forbid you're able to make a bunch of blockers that died easily to Bile Blight.

>>44031060
Remember when they though Zurgo Helmsmasher was going to be a standard staple?

>>44031407
the block with wildslash, in the standard with bileblight, drown in sorrow and abzan charm, followed by the standard with fiery impulse and who knows what else.

>>44031060
That's because they were still in 'this card fucked up FFL something fierce' mode, even though they nerfed it into the ground afterwards the fact that it WAS so strong made them evaluate it higher than it was. Just like how they never looked at Clamp because it was a complete piece of shit until someone made it 'cute', then never tested the 'cute' version and oh hey turns out 'cute' means 'broken as all goddamn hell' but it was already at the printers at that point

>>44030778
They might be trying to flush out the leakers by releasing fake spoilers.

>>44031443
this, this this this THIS.

their design team is a huge echo chamber, they fret and fetter over shit like say.. the original "First Response" and then they craft a ton of cards to counter it, and then... completely destroy First Response into what it became.

uh oh, we kept all those cards we balanced around First response (one was SIEGE RHINO Btw).

it seems like they all sit in a room and talk about how strong a card is, set up a ton of cards to go against it, and then forget to change them too.

like I still don't know what they were thinking with Zurgo Helmsmasher.

>>44031466
they aren't that clever and never have been.

>>44031501
>>44031443
Yeah, I mean fuck, we even have Virulent Plague now, which is yet another card that just shits on Empty the Pits, this one from a post-Theros environment and in the same color that Bile Blight was in.

Like, literally, if Empty the Pits put them in untapped and it was such a problem, then once Blight rotated, those players would have just jammed Plague into their sideboard, especially since then the only good enchantment removal would be Erase or Naturalize... and who the fuck would main them? No-one. So they'd be in the side at best, except they wouldn't go in because you didn't mainboard Plague in the first place.

All in all, this just goes to show that WotC don't have a fucking clue where their game is really at and what cards will be good or not. That's probably why they only push certain decks for standard. So they know what will be played, to make babbymode for them. I mean, I really want to make a U/R devoid deck work right now because Hangarbacks with shit like Vile Aggregate and Ruination Guide is hilarious, but it's not playable because it's not pushed. Just like U/G morph wasn't pushed for Standard either. Instead, WotC force me to play the decks THEY want me to play, not the decks I want to and the decks I have fun with,

>>44031705
my problem with current standard is BFZ.

BFZ was so underpowered it didn't even create any new decks really, beyond Eldrazi Ramp which is a joke.

all it did was add mana and replace Elspeth to existing decks.

it was such a weak set that there are maybe 2 non gideon, non battle-land cards seeing play.

that says alot.

how many times did a new set come out and simply fail to create a new decktype or 2?

>>44031826
>saw exactly zero copies in tournies.

has a card ever bombed so hard that they pushed that much? even a few Empty the pits saw play, and were immediately taken out because it was shit.

This thread is now about cards that WotC claimed would be the hot new shit and then went and bombed almost as hard as Hiroshima.

>>44031942
so nearly every one they ever made an article about ever?

didn't they push Sire of Stagnation and Dragonlord Kolagahan and other "no shit it sucks" cards.

>>44028150
They're used in EDH.

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>>44032017

>>44031880
Not one person tried it?

>>44031968
It's just funny to look back at the quotes from the articles, blog posts, twitter feeds or whatever and realise just how terrible WotC is at understanding the state of their own game.

Hell, they clearly didn't think Hangarback would be all that given as it went entirely under the radar during their spoiler season.

>>44032054
people tried it in testing, "Bile Blight" was a card and cost 2 mana and immediately killed him, and every black deck ran 3-4 of that.

and now there are five billion ways to deal with him, again again.

2 toughness is just retarded

>>44032054
Oh, it was tried. Have you never heard of proxying up decks during spoiler season, anon?

>>44032065
Fucking Boros Reckoner. They spoiled a bunch of shit Boros cards, then Boros Charm and they didn't even make a mention to Boros Reckoner until it was revealed with the whole set.

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>>44031795
The problem is none of the decks that could be possible with BFZ are powerful enough to really make a dent in the three color meta that Khans introduced.

So many things introduced in Khans block had loads of power for having the three color costs that backed them, alongside how easy it is to get them onto the board with clanlands and the reintroduction of fetches.

I'm deeply hoping that this won't be the case any longer when Innistrad 2 comes in and Khans leaves the current Standard, but even then Innistrad 2 might end up being better than BFZ by a long shot.

>>44032065
To be fair, so did Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Dragonlord Ojutai. I remember idiots hyping Kytheon, Hero of Arkos and Ojutai's Command while pre-ordering Jaces and Ojutais. Sold them all back when they hit their peak and used the money to buy myself something nice.

>>44032109
Ohh, ok.

>>44032129
I was JUST getting into mtg mid khans release.

>>44031795
It seems like they're resetting power creep.

Copy pasting from the other thread because the same shit is happening here.
>itt: dipshits who don't understand the difference between colorless and generic mana
Generic mana: Always a cost, never added by anything. Any kind of mana, meaning white blue black red green or colorless, can be used to pay generic mana costs.
Colorless mana: A type of mana that can be produced by many things. Until now, has only ever been something added, not a cost.
Literally the only difference now is they are making colorless mana a cost, rather than something that gets added, so they are introducing a new mana symbol to clarify the difference between colorless and generic mana.

>>44032157
anon, stuff in BFZ isn't particularly strong or interesting even in a vacuum.

no one is going to be loading up Drowner of Hope any time soon, or Ommnath, or well the list goes on until I name nearly all of them.

we will be FORCED to play with them come april, MAYBE, maybe Innistrad proves so strong that BFZ just stays the void zone it is.

>>44032157
Well, there's converge, I guess...

>>44027506
probably fake, "Дикopoждeнныe" is gibberish

>>44032157
>>44032219
I cannot imagine them managing to make Innistrad 2 any more disappointing or unplayable as BFZ.

>>44032219
Unless they print something like
>G
>0/1
>Devoid
>T: Add {1} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast colorless spells.

Then I'd jump on that shit and enjoy my T4 Ulamogs.

>>44032189
that isn't how it works, "Power creep" isn't a thing in Magic, we are going backwards from true power creep since forever.

you can just release "Parity power" level cards and everything is fine, see "Innistrad Ravnica" having a Power Drain fucks standard harder, hence "Rhino's extended season!"

all you are doing is making self-rationalized excuses for WoTC's fuckups, and then trying to sell them to me.

>>44032270
anon, no one will let that thing live because they know exactly what you are trying to do.

>>44032271
nahh

>>44032252
oh.. i'm sorry.

I'd laugh but its actually just sad you believe this.

>>44032270
>>44032299
Maybe I just suck at Magic, but I don't get it. Elvish Mysic wasn't super powerful when it was around and this seems like a worse version.

>>44032393
it is, but the fact it says that, and "eldrazi ramp" is a thing means its shit because its now a high priorty kill target.

a more "meta" call on why it'd be bad, but hey if your opponent just doesn't run interaction.. great.

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>>44032393
MaRo thinks that Elvish Mystic is too strong to be printed again. This is not a joke, he actually said it.
>mfw this man is in charge of the future of my favorite hobby.

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>>44032487
the best part is.

for the way standard now functions, he's right.

its that fackin fucked.

>>44030523
>anecdotal evidence

congrats on being lucky, anon

>>44031942
I remember MaJew said Pharika was going to be top tier/broken

And also Obzedat, The Ghost Council (which granted was pretty good but never really made it big)

>>44028150
I use filters in every 2+ color deck i play

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>>44033579

>>44033157
GB was a deck, and Pharika was often the card that broke mirror matches open. I mean, it was played at World's. Maybe it wasn't the best card ever by itself but it was definitely powerful.

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>>44034389
I am a great magician - your lands are red!

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>>44034992

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>>44032487
>siege rhino turn three

>>44035223
Step it up senpai
>Turn 1 Yavimaya > Mystic
>Turn 2 Red source, Knuckleblade
>Turn 3 land, Hunt Caller, Swing for 9

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>>44034389
>>44034992
>>44035176
>No please. I have wound there!
>Come on, don't spoil everything, this works for both of us!

>>44029267
No.

It really wasn't.

Also, that card is a fake.

>>44035316
Knukleblade was/is probably the most underrated card in standard.

>>44031826
The problem with helm smasher and many other modern cards like Erebos's Titan is the situation ability's.

They need to knock it the fuck off. They are not balancing the cards or making them more"interactive" they are making them unplayable. Zurgo should have at the very least read

>Haste, Indestructible
> ~ attacks each turn if able
>Whenever a creature dealt damage by ~ this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on ~

By making his indestructible situational they killed the card because players are going to go for the sage bet not the risky bet. It does not matter how "cool" or "thematic" the card is players will never go for it unless its rules are good. This will never ever change and WotC needs to stop believing other wise.

SOI needs to tone up the power level. BFZ was a good bottom to rise from. Now that the game has been sufficiently depowered it needs to start rising again for about 4 years then hit a peak and start going down.

>>44035385
>>44035316
>>44035223
>>44032487
Im pretty sure that these combos are shit since I don't read anywhere "Siege Rhino", "Abzan" or "Anafenza"

>>44027506
looks cool wana put one in my kresh edh deck might see some standard play tho to be honest haven't played standard in forever so cant judge

>>44035405

So basically the whole BFZ set except for Gideon since they are all situational.

The eldrazi processors are the worst offenders

>>44035733
I meant taking ability's and adding arbitrary restrictions to them like "If it is your turn ~ is indestructible." rather than it just being flat indestructible.

But you are right about rally and processors. Why have +2+2 until you run out of steam while being pressured to keep dropping ally's when you may really not want to. When you can always have +1+1.

Definite > possibility

This will ALWAYS be the case. It keeps you in control.

They should have handled it by making good cards and then adding the situational abilities on top. This way no matter what you get a good card and are not missing out. The situational effect is just a bonus. It really disgusts me the allys with rally dont always have the ability they give out to others. It completely killed my hype for the deck type.

>>44035733

actually 2 processors in particular, Void Attendant and Cryptic Cruiser, have some weird interactions that i've seen come in an edh scenario

processors can actually interact at instant speed with exiled cards, pretty fucking awesome

its just shitty for the sets they were designed for, which is hilarious

like not really strong in limited, and terrible, utterly useless in standard

but actually able to be an unintended silver-bullet effect in singleton edh

in my Momir Vig deck i can tutor them any number of ways and snatch a Blightsteel that was suspended by Jhoira, or shut down delayed-flicker cards like ghostway, aetherling, and flickerwisp

there are just so many interesting interactions. it can stop prophetic flamespeaker revealed cards before combat ends, preventing them from casting them if they aren't instant speed

>>44035938
This

Ingest creatures are shit but the way processors interact with shit your opponent exiles on purpose is amazing

>>44035938
i jammed a void attendant in my GW tokens deck just becasue of those interations, i just so happen to have a jhoira edh player in my LGS

>>44032157
I'm not the speculative kind, but what are the odds of Wizards saying Khans was too good rather than BfZ being bad?

>>44031795
>what is Rot Shambler/Scions
SMFH

>>44031942
Well when they revealed Poly K way back when they said "this card will be in every green deck" and they were right about that.

>>44032177
I wish I wasn't broke when origins released. I was the only person in my area who was saying Jace was busted, and the pre-order price was worth it because he would at least double in price after a month or so. But I had no clue he would be where he is now.

>>44037653
100%. And they'll cite examples like Treasure Cruise being banned in modern, Monastery Mentor seeing play in vintage, and zombie fish running wild everywhere. 4 to 1 odds they compare Tarkir to original Mirrodin in power level.

>>44037653
I can see them saying that initially. They tend to go to great lengths to avoid saying bad things about the most recent block.

>>44038537
It was the only creature that was ahead of the curve in a set entirely behind the curve. Anyone could have called that

>>44032271
>that isn't how it works, "Power creep" isn't a thing in Magic, we are going backwards from true power creep since forever.
Fucking this. Shivan dragon is the best creature ever printed for a reason.
>you can just release "Parity power" level cards and everything is fine, see "Innistrad Ravnica" having a Power Drain fucks standard harder, hence "Rhino's extended season!"
Are you saying innistrad ravnica was an underpowered standard or over powered? You sentence structure here is weird.

>>44038890
>you can just release "Parity power" level cards and everything is fine, see "Innistrad Ravnica"
>Having a Power Drain fucks standard harder, hence "Rhino's extended season!"
I think he meant to break those into two sentences, the 'power drain' being a fair portion of the Theros block.

>>44038921
Ooooh I see, yeah that makes more sense. He's objectively wrong for saying there isn't power creep in magic, it's still a thing albeit much slower than other games (like yogioh)

>>44038940
>>44038921
what's the difference in power drain and "resetting" power creep (ie making a weak set after a strong series of sets, see B4Z).

>>44028715
You can't cast Counterspell with a basic Swamp and an Underground Sea.

You can cast Counterspell with a basic Swamp and Sunken Ruins.

Filter lands are great in decks that run spells that require multiples of coloured mana.

>>44038948
Power drain is something like how wizards handles counterspells.
No more 2 mana unconditional.
Only highly conditional 2 or 1 mana counters and 3 mana counters allowed.
This wont change.
Alternatively it's a UU sorcery that taps out your opponents lands and adds that mana to your mana pool.

Resetting power creep is like theros, or kamigawa, where an entire set is hosed hard to reset the general power level of standard.

That's my interpretation at least.

>>44038940
>He's objectively wrong for saying there isn't power creep in magic
Only in creatures though, you can't just label it as overarching power creep when spells will never be as powerful as they were in early magic days because wizards would never print something BETTER than Black Lotus or Timewalk

>>44038948
There isn't a difference, he was just using a better term. They're not 'resetting' power to some basic standard, they're just draining power from cards in some attempt to stop power creep.

The problem is, the very act of resetting 'power creep' by making shitty ass fucking sets no-one wants to buy is what creates power creep, because shitty ass sets no sane player will buy are followed by more powerful sets to try and bring in interest again for people to buy cards.

cont.

>>44039001
cont.
Wizards are unable to design cards that are both interesting/sellable and also on a power level that is on par with the current standard power level so they believe the solution is to make every few sets utter garbage when what they should be doing is getting designers who can make sets for shit.

>>44039034
except not at all

>>44039016
>Only in creatures though, you can't just label it as overarching power creep when spells will never be as powerful as they were in early magic days because wizards would never print something BETTER than Black Lotus or Timewalk
And enchantments
And non-mana producing artifacts.

>>44037653
you have made a safe bet my friend it's something they have already said.

>>44030204
The number of players who'd want to buy the expedition instead of the regular are probably only a small portion of the EDH community.

>Wow this sure will go in my EDH deck!
How to detect a bad card 101

>>44035405
Conditional indestructiblity /hexproof whatever leads to more fun gameplay. That's more important than making powerful cards.

>>44031826
Put Empty the Pits right next to it with "This card will break standard" underneath it.

>>44040500
i think they said it would define standard, not break it. WotC generally tries not to suggest their game is broken except when they are passing bans to fix what they say is broken.

>>44032242
Yeah. Actually, all the text on that fake is that weird gibberish. Pay attention, people!

>>44040487
except its never fun to play your 5 mana mythic creature and have it instantly die to bileblight or lightning strike/motherfucking wildslash on their turn.

and you know its going to happen and there isn't anything you can do about it because lol 2 toughness so fanny.

>>44029949
You're dumb.

>>44031942
During the time of caw blade standard the ffl thought that mass polymorph was going to be the deck to beat

>>44032252
>Returning to another beloved plane after the train wreck that was BFZ
>Almost certainly no flashback
>More cthulu meme shit
Prepare to be proven wrong

>>44040657
Zurgo is a bomb in Limited and works in casual. Taking 7 damage to the head or losing a creature on block is not something I'm happy about even if I can kill it on my turn.

>>44032393
In a format with no actual good removal costed at less than 4 mana a turn 1 elvish mystic puts you so far ahead that it's difficult for your opponent to catch up. This is more a statement on the low power of standard than it is the raw power of elvish mystic

>>44040500
>>44040561
Actually, the article said it would 'make a splash' in Standard, which it did. A few decks ran it when it first came out, there's a couple feature matches with it, I believe.

>>44038769
Hard to imagine that a company wouldn't be willing to say that their own product is bad,

Jesus fuck, just a day or two ago I was talking to my brother about the likelihood of filterland expeditions. It seems anything I discuss with my brother about possible cards becomes true - I similarly pre-empted Endless One.

>>44041019
Quick talk to him about good cards. I don't care what they are just use your psychic voodoo to salvage this block.

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>>44027506
>RG Legendary Mul Daya redhead Elf twins with land acceleration

R.I.P in peace muh dick.

>>44040500
I called that being bullshit.

>>44040561
We really can't blame them. Their development team is only so big. What takes their people months to figure out, the Magic community can break in a day. They simply do not have the resources to make a pitch-perfect environment.

>>44041127
It still takes a month or few for the playerbase to find out what works and what does not. Jace and Treasure Cruise took some time to gain popularity.

>>44041201
motherfucker Jace was instantly seen as badass the first tourney of Origins.

>BFZ announced
>We're totally getting enemy fetch reprints in BFZ
>No we won't, we'll probably get enemy manlands tho

>BFZ spoiled, Oath announced
>Totally getting enemy battle lands in Oath
>Eh, more likely we'll see Eventide filters reprinted

So damn close. It's odd as hell we're seeing two rare ally land cycles in the same block, especially since battlelands and filters overlap so much in terms of how they play. Maybe the filters are only Expeditions.

> <> in place of (1)
Fuck your grandmother, MaRo

>>44034992
Lands don't have color, dumbass.

>>44030523
I'm sure your anecdotal evidence rivals the data compiled by this massive company whose interests depend on it.

>>44041644
>Maybe the filters are only Expeditions.

I'm pretty certain that's the case. They've announced there's going to be 45 Expeditions in total, we've already seen 25 (battle lands, shocks and fetches) so they still have 20 slots to play around with, all 10 filter lands and all 10 manlands would account for those.

>>44027506
I want to build majorly casual "win through commander damage" with these 2.

>>44039050
Jar, Exploration, Mind Over Matter, Time Vault

>>44028625
>>44028029
Told ya the <> is just an aesthetic change. :^)

It's not "errata" by the way. Errata changes functionality. The <> for (1) is just the new way to write it out.

>>44041201
You're right, that was a hyperbole. But you see what mean. 1 month for millions of MtG players to figure that out. We can't expect a group of 30 to have it all figured out, even with working in advance.

>>44029949
>He thinks Wizards will never make stupid changes

come on dude, i'm certain that this is a real card but even i'm not stupid enough to base my assessments of plausibility on the assumption that maro knows what he's doing

>>44042530
Wrong. They issue nonfunctional errata all the time.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/magic-2015-update-bulletin-2014-07-17

>>44040657
Go away MaRo, I think I see a penny on the floor.

>>44042632
This was for >>44040487
My bad.

>>44027988
>dies to deathtouch
Pretty underwhelming.

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>>44042702
>Emrakul dies to pic related

Holy shit, Emrakul is trash

>>44042784
Mesoamerican set when?

>>44032487
Memes aside, T1 ramp enablers have the potential to be fucking stupid in standard. It's a low risk high reward investment. If the opponent kills it they're down a removal spell and if they don't you get a giant boost in tempo.

Can I pay the two <><> with hedron archive?

>>44043156
You can.

>>44028073
I like the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor filter lands...

>>44043331
well they are still weak as fuck compared to shocklands, battle lands, fetch lands, tri lands, and scry lands.

>>44031795

rally is a T1 deck that would not be a deck without BFZ

check your fucking self

>>44044249
You mean the deck that already existed before BFZ?

>>44044301

the deck "existed" because rally "existed" and people tried to make brews with it.

the slew of synergistic commons/uncommons from BFZ made the deck actually possible.

>>44043247
seems silly that a card from the same block won't have the new symbol to denote it

>>44044355
inexplicable Hedron Archive reprint?

>>44042784
The difference is that Em's Annihilator 6 already happens when it swings. They are down six permanents. Not only that, but Em gets shuffled back to the deck after it's done so you can just search it back up with Eye of Ugin or something and cast him next turn. Meanwhile if your opponent might be struggling to do anything if they didn't have a lot of non-land permanents. Newkoz providing up to seven new cards when it's cast is nice, but no where near as good as exiling six permanents.

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>>44044355
Silly but that's how Kozilek rolls.

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>>44044423
>Emrakul
>him

Emrakul a girl, anon.

>>44044423
Man, your comment is all over the place, besides the fact that you mixed a lot of facts

First, my comment was about him dying to deathtouch being underwhelming, which ALL of the eldrazis, both old and new, die to except Ulamog.

Also, this is not a competition about who is the best card, besides the fact they do completely different stuff

Not re-shuffling is a plus because you can re-animate him and he can also turn any card in your hand in a potential counterspell

Few creatures will ever be as good as Emrakul, but thats not the point that was brought

>>44044341
Man, you really didn't watch lots of tourneys when origins dropped huh?

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=10383&d=259365&f=ST

>>44044659

neat, thanks for posting. i had no idea.

is it possible there are some cards that produce generic (now <>) mana that maybe won't produce <>?

like what if some cards are too strong if they produce <x> instead of (x)?

>>44044725
Cards don't produce generic mana, they make colorless. Generic is a cost.

>>44044725
Cards don't produce generic, they produce colorless. <> means colorless.

Sol Ring produces <> <>
Painlands produce one <>

>>44044219
I had an argument with one of my friends about filterlands, I say they suck compared to those but he still says they enter untapped.

>>44044865
>>44045020
you know what i mean though

>>44045066
No I don't, if a card made colorless mana before it's still going to make colorless mana now.

>>44045066
Not really, care to elaborate?

>>44045130
>>44045137
replace the word generic with colorless in my original post

>>44045210
If they don't produce colorless, the only other option is to make colored mana

>>44044560
Kosi's crown is fucking radical

>>44032487
MaRo does *not* work in development. That's not his call and openly admits that his skills in it are weak. Any opinions he outputs on these matters are either a)uninformed or b)given by more knowledgeable people that he has no right to question.

>>44041644
>Fuck your grandmother, MaRo
>Implying that was his call
The way I see it, finally creating the separation between generic mana and colorless mana opens up to at least some unexplored design space.

I am going to flip shit if we don't get enemy color support especially all the ally support from DTK.

>>44045691
For what's been posted by various members of wotc in different departments, almost everything pass through maro. I still don't get this devotion towards him, hell even wotc employees dressed as the asshole jew.

People need to stop putting him in pedestal.

>>44045691
>finally creating the separation between generic mana and colorless mana opens up to at least some unexplored design space.
I'm not really seeing a lot they can do with it desu

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>>44045987
>Implying everybody there doesn't hate him
>Implying they didn't dress up as him to make fun of him behind his back

>>44046060
why would they? they all know it's his job to rile up manchilds on the internet.

>>44046206
That doesn't make him not a massive douche to everyone he works and interacts with.

>>44045987
>For what's been posted by various members of wotc in different departments, almost everything pass through maro
Lots of things sure, but not all. And definitely not development, which was the issue that anon I responded to implied.

>People need to stop putting him in pedestal.
He's made some pretty innovative solutions to the game and helped it become what it is today. Some of the game's most beloved cards and mechanics were directly from him. And not just that, he was the one to come up with the psychographics which really helped identify *why* certain cards are beloved over others and for who. Also, the reverse is true. He's made mistakes to the game and has caused it problems. Which completely understandable becuase as we all know, were't not perfect beings and things can go wrong.
MaRo genuinely cares about the game and to hate him for everything that he is just as bad of an injustice to put him on a pedestal.

>>44046047
Hmm. I'm no designer, so I can't truly speak for how much depth it has. But at the very least it could be use flavorly (for example, the Eldrazi). Design-wise, forcing 'colorless' mana and not 'generic' mana, creates the distinction that was always technically there, but never visual about it; which is about time, if you ask me.

>>44046265
>a massive douche to everyone he works with.
how do you know?

>a massive douche to everyone he interacts with.
duh, it's his job description.
seeing your immense hatred of him, i'd say he's very good at doing his job.

>>44046361
>Design-wise, forcing 'colorless' mana and not 'generic' mana, creates the distinction that was always technically there, but never visual about it
What distinction? The distinction between colorless and colored? But that distinction has been there since Alpha: colored cards are harder to cast, because they require more specific mana than colorless cards do. This is ostensibly making colorless cards that now require a specific kind of noncolored mana, which is a new distinction from what came before.
So what are you talking about?

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>>44046473
I guess my first two posts were a bit overzealous. I've never met the man myself, so I can't say I hate him, but second-hand experience has taught me enough about him. I should probably just leave it at that.

>>44046534
I'm talking about generic and colorless mana having the same exact symbol, but mean different things. Look at any mana rock that produces colorless mana, let's say Sol Ring; it takes type of mana (W, U, B, R, G, or colorless) to cast it, represented by (1), but it taps only for colorless mana, which is represented by the same symbol as generic (2). This is essentially a flaw. Not an obvious one, and certainly not very serious, but it's still a flaw. Colorless mana, as you said, has been around since Alpha, but it is only now that it's starting to truly represent what it is, as a sort of pseudo-color, which is interesting to see the uses.

>>44046704
*it takes any type of mana

>>44046361
>Some of the game's most beloved cards and mechanics were directly from him.

And in the same vein some of the biggest and worst fuck-ups can be attributed to him. Like Tinker.

>>44042552
Working in advance, while the cards are constantly changing, mind you.

>>44046803
>Also, the reverse is true. He's made mistakes to the game and has caused it problems.
Tell me something I haven't stated already.

>>44046571
Your 2nd hand experience is from him doing his job. That's his job, to rile you up.

>>44046867
This is also overlooked. Good point.

>>44046704
>This is essentially a flaw.
I'm sorry, I just don't see that as being the case. It taps for (2), therefore that (2) can be used to pay any (2) in a mana cost, or as part of a cost including (3). I've taught many people how to play magic and none of them have at any point confused generic and colorless mana.
>but it is only now that it's starting to truly represent what it is, as a sort of pseudo-color
Colorless isn't a color, and it's not a "pseudo-color," either. There are no mechanics that are exclusive to colorless cards (aside from Devoid, which literally just says "this card is colorless"), unlike other colors of magic which retain their own flavors and mechanic. The Eldrazi are unique, in that they eschew normal magic because they're weird space aliens.
Where did this idea that colorless could be its own color come from in the first place?

>>44047046
>I've taught many people how to play magic and none of them have at any point confused generic and colorless mana.

to add some contrary anecdotal evidence to your own:
every single person I've taught to play, or otherwise very new players I've played with, has made this mix-up at least once. Most of them figure it out once I tell them specifically how it works, but they tend to mix up the concept of adding (1) to your pool, and adding one mana of any color. Their rationale is that (1) means "can be paid with any color" in costs, so it must mean you can use it to pay for any color, right?

Personally I'm just happy because it annoyed me, aesthetically, when they used the same symbol for the two concepts.

>>44047046
>I've taught many people how to play magic and none of them have at any point confused generic and colorless mana
I'm on the same boat, never have I ever come across anyone who even remotely found it confusing. But it's not a matter of confusion. It's about making that separation which is technically there and using it in a new and exciting way.

>Colorless isn't a color, and it's not a "pseudo-color," either.
>Where did this idea that colorless could be its own color come from in the first place?
You're right, even calling it a pseudo-color, which I did, is wrong. But I'm saying it 'can' work like that which is unexplored design space. Again, I can't speak for how much depth it has. At the very least, it can be used creatively. For example, new Kozilek and the Eldrazis. The mandatory colorless mana truly separate them as otherworldly beings, probably even better than Devoid or Annihilator.


Whether or not it's visually attractive is subjective. But I'm sure some neat things can come of it.

>>44039001
Literally there are two unconditional cmc 2 counters in all of magic and they're from the very beginning what are you on.

>>44039034
>sets are only there for power level

Okay, Spike. Whatever you say.

>>44047244
>aesthetically, when they used the same symbol for the two concepts
This anon gets it. That's probably the main argument used within R&D to make the push for it.

>>44039034
Power level in Standard-legal sets needs that pendulum swinging. I'll tack on complexity because the same rules imply. You can't have the game progressively get weaker, or else you'll lose all your player out of sheer lack of interest. And the opposite is also true, if the game perpetually gets stronger it will lead to power creep and have the same results.

If sets slowly swing from the high-end of power level and complexity to the lower-end, as well as back to high-end, it's overall better for the longevity of the game. It also creates much needed variance to the game.

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I really dont like the new mana. It feels like they did something really big when it actually doesn't really change anything. Instead of moving colorless or generic mana forward they moved it to the side. Pic related. So every generic mana generator is now a colorless mana generator instead? I know its not a pointless distinction at all but it just feels lazy. I would have preferred anything different to be honest.

Whatever, after devoid and ingest I should have known another gimmick was coming. A boring, unimpressive block that makes Theros looks dazzling in comparison, and thats AFTER rehashing one of the most popular post-shards blocks. Yawn.

>>44028029
Wrong set symbol

>>44048538
That's so it would be the OPPOSITE of parasitic, though.
So that things like The Great Distortion would work with cards from all of Magic's past, instead of just cards from Oath and only Oath. If it had been something that was only in Oath it would have been one of the most parasitic mechanics in the history of Magic. Instead it works with anything that produces colorless mana, while cleaning up something they've stated they weren't fond of. Colorless mana gets a symbol to separate it from generic, they CAN have colorless costs that...honestly will probably only be for Eldrazi-related things to make it so they can print good ones that are truly colorless, don't cost a fuckload automatically, and aren't necessarily going to be crammed into every deck due to being colorless.

>>44048697
Why would the Expedition set symbol change from BFZ to OGW? They're counted as a cumulative total of 45, not 25 from BFZ and then 20 from OGW.

>>44048729
Good point, I retract my statement

>>44048538

You do realise that 'Generic Mana' does not exist as a mana source right? There are only 6 types of mana that can ever be in your mana pool and generic is not one of them.

>202.1a The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from his or her mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the color of any colored mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost.

The only time generic is used is as a cost that any type of mana can be used to fulfill.

>>44048697
Expeditions were confirmed to have the same set symbol between BfZ and OGW back during BfZ previews.

>>44028029
>>44028029
Spoonfeed me, why are filterlands bad?

>>44049607
They're not bad, just not amazing

>>44049607
They're awkward in multiples in your opening hand. Without a basic to supply either color, filters can't produce their color. They're fine in color-intensive two color decks, but lackluster elsewhere.

>>44049607

Having more than 1 in your starting hand is a little difficult.

That being said, turn 1 filter with turn 2 complementary colour is normally pretty strong.

Great in EDH most times as well.

>>44049670
Currently they're more expensive than shocks though, at least better than checklands.

>>44049607
They're more technical than other multicolor nonbasics since they can filter one mana of either of their colors into any combination of two mana in those colors
Like, you can get WU, WW, or UU from two hallowed fountains, but not two mystic gates, but you can't get UU from a hallowed fountain and a plains, while the reverse is true of mystic gate

>>44049945
Shocklands have been reprinted. Filter lands haven't (except Graven Cairns, which is the cheapest one). That's why they're more expensive.

I wouldn't necessarily say they're better than checklands either. Definitely better than battlelands though.

>>44050027
>except Graven Cairns, which is the cheapest one
And the worst

>>44050114

>tfw the only lands I don't want or need are rakdos based lands
>binder pages with spare Blood Crypts, Temps and Cairns
>literally gathering dust

I nearly cried when i opened a exp Crypt, just wanted to get out of this hell.

>>44050027
Well Cairns isn't the cheapest because it was reprinted though, BR lands historically have the worst price out of the dual lands. Coincidentally Lavaclaw Reaches is also the worst manland.

>>44050224
>>44050114
Cairns might be the coolest, though. Like, that Future Sight art, dude. unf

>>44050368
Blackcleave cliffs are the most expensive fastland

>Lavaclaw reaches is the worst manland
You take that back you son of a bitch!

>>44050419
>Blackcleave cliffs are the most expensive fastland
wow color me surprised.

>You take that back you son of a bitch!
Have to pay to wake it up, then pay again to pump it. They could've made it the best by paying life to pump.

>>44030778
So wastes replaces colorless mana or its a different type used for specific cards? The card in OP still says 2 colorless. which leads me to believe they're not retroactively making <> overwrite colorless. if they were doing that they would' ve done it in the first set bfz not at the end of the block.

It feels like wotc only makes good cards on accident. The good cards stand out because everything else is a bad choice.

>>44051124
Actually the card has 2 generic mana in the cost, which is not the same thing. Kinda the point of changing colorless mana in this way, assuming it's legit of course.

>>44051217
But the eldrazi are colorless so woudlnt it make sense for ulamog to have the symbol too and not just generic mana? they should've done this in bfz if they were going to change things up like this.

>>44051246
That is really the sole argument I see against the new symbol. It's a fair point and we just have to wait till OGW for Wizards to publicly talk about it. I'm sure there's a reason for this seemingly glaring issue.

>>44051206
What makes you feel like that, out of curiosity? Who's to say that those good cards stand out because they placed it there on purpose to reward those who find it?

>>44051124
<> is meant for Colorless, not for generic mana.
Kozilek is casted for 2 Colorless and 8 generics, in otehr words, 2 colorless AND 8 of any color

I'm probably the only one in this thread that is happy with the power level of bfz.
I started playing during fate reforged and played a bit of m15 too. I thought dtk was way too strong but I understood it's role as a nearly all dragon set and the end of the khans story so the hype meant it had to be strong but it was a little overboard.

origins felt weak comparatively and now bfz feels like it's in a good spot.

I've bought way more product of bfz than any other set because I like it so much.

>>44051246
Oh, for sure. I never said Wizards had very good timing. We'll just have to wait for them to talk publicly about it

>>44040478
>implying edh isn't as important as standard

The thing is wotc has to make cards that appeal to fnm standard guys, modern people, casuals, edh players, draft and sealed fans
so not every card can be everything to everybody but each card can be something to somebody.

get me?

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>>44041694

>>44034992
Hey there's a skull on that moon!

>>44051407
Objectively speaking, BfZ is the weakest in terms of sets legal in Standard. And furthermore, DTK is weaker to KTK, more or less. But where players get mistaken is when they think that's a flaw of design/development and take up arms against Wizards. I highlighted that point here >>44047946

I'm you're enjoying MtG, anon. I hope you stick with it. It really is a game full of depth and nuances.

>>44038743
>Treasure Cruise banned in Modern
You are allowed the same number of copies of Treasure Cruise as you are BLACK LOTUS is Vintage

That says something

>>44037653
Guarantee it, there are so many great cards in Khans. I don't think they really understood a good formula for 3 cost cards desu

>>44051354
>What makes you feel like that, out of curiosity? Who's to say that those good cards stand out because they placed it there on purpose to reward those who find it?

because as others have said the cards wotc seems to think will be in everyones deck rarely are. like empty the pits and zurgo they turn out to not be competitive. If you buy a fatpack and read the guide you know how they always have that "10 best cards in the set" page. but those cards rarely see play at standard

So what ARE the best cards from BFZ for any format, outside of reprints? I haven't been paying much attention but I play modern and I know that my Zoo deck isn't getting any updates in the new set

>tfw Johnny/vorthos
>tfw you just shrug when people say X is a bad card

>>44051703
Of all the maybe cards, the actually useful ones are
Drana
Gideon
Scatter
Horribly Awry
Transgress

>>44051842
They all seems like kinda shittier versions of already existing cards
Drana is the only one that seems to be decent, but it seems like she would just die to removal and black aggro is kinda eh
It all seems eh

>>44051887
I hear Bring to Light is the new gifts or something though

>>44029216
It's just as retarded as the tap symbol.

People making a big deal out of it are idiots.

>>44051762
I'm Timmy/Vorthos myself.

"Bad card" is actually just a subjective term when really examined. What it means is "I can't use this card." For every card that one person dictates as "bad" or "usable" there's a plethora of people that think it's perfect for them. Lots of players are simply ignorant to the other people who play the game and what they take out of it.

>>44051918
I've played it a bit in a modern deck and it's really underwhelming. It costs way too much to be that great, and I can't think of any game-winning 3-4 drops. I'd rather straight tutor for something I know can win the game than have to spend 5 mana to get a card that's alright. If it cost 4 it would be sweet but as it stands, its just kinda awkward
But that's just me

>>44051703
>So what ARE the best cards from BFZ for any format, outside of reprints?
I don't know which reprints you think are being played in any format, but the only cards from BFZ being played anywhere are the rare dual lands in EDH and sometimes as a 1-of in Modern. Gideon has been getting some attention but I don't think he's played anywhere aside from Standard, and Drana and BtL haven proven to be duds in Standard let alone without

>>44027506
I like it
Pretty good ramp card, decent pt and cmc, good ability
Probably good in standard, im gonna love it in EDH

>>44052010
I actually only was referring to the reprints of the duals and fetches

According to the gatherer, which clearly isn't the be-all of card ratings, there are actually no non-reprint cards in the set with a rating higher that even touches 4.

Jesus Christ

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>>44052094
I think drana is breddy gud
its nice to put counters on your dudes because no one has flyers
I run 2 in B/W Warriors and it has won me like 5 games
Take that as you will

>>44052104
Yes, even cards like that needed for all sorts of reasons.

Maybe someone wants to build their own cube and in balancing needed something to hose fliers.
Maybe a pauper deck really needed it.
A pauper cube.
I'll even do you a solid and pretend that literally no one in the world wants that card. "Bad" cards are a way to distinguish skillful players from less skillful players. In a limited environment like draft, a newbie might pick that over a removal spell, passing it to a more skillful player who does see the value in the removal spell. Therefore, the "bad" cards rewards players who make better choices.

MaRo recently came up with two podcasts about "bad cards" and i urge you to listen to them. Quite insightful. If you can't stand his voice (or simply prefer reading), the podcasts themselves are based on two articles he wrote on the subject years ago.

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>>44051918
>I hear Bring to Light is the new gifts or something though
Except that Gifts cost 1 less mana
And it doesn't have to be 5 different colors
And it's an instant
And it wins you the game the turn after you pay it (on the opponent's turn)

>>44052094
Gatherer has been broken for almost two years, I'm surprised anyone votes there at all

>>44052275
I'm not that guy but I'm a little upset that, when they decided to make the newest block's theme as "fatties matter" they gave us pic related as the best ramp spell in the set. It's a semi-decent combat trick in limited Landfall decks but everywhere else it's strictly worse than Cultivate which is *almost* strictly worse than Rampant Growth which is basically strictly worse than a Kamigawa common named Sakura Tribe Elder. Forget making ramp decks better, let's just not print any red 1-drops or Lightning Strike or anything useful for aggro, let's just make EVERYTHING worse so that ramp-into-eldrazi is MAYBE a viable deck

>>44052390
I'd argue that the new block's theme *isn't* "fatties." Sure, there's an archetype to play your big Eldrazis, but it isn't the overall theme. Plus, there are other ways to ramping the limited environment beyond that, just look at all the Scion stuff.

If you're speaking in the limited environment, I'm not that knowledgeable because I only played BfZ pre-release. I don't know how viable ramp is.

If you're speaking Standard then I'll have you know that I was stomped by a ramp them a few weeks ago that all it wanted to do was cast Ulamog. And who knows, maybe it's just laying dormant now and with post-rotation Eldrazi ramp is going to blindside us straight into the number 1 deck. R&D is aware that the Eldrazis are high-profile and people want to play them in constructed. I'm sure they'll be giving us the toys to make it happen. It just won't be obvious. Which honestly, don't you think that makes it more fun?

>>44052390
>he didn't know eldrazi ramp is a thing now
keep whining

>>44052390
red one drops and lightning strike are toxic

>>44052010
Dispel, Sylvan Scrying

>>44053036
most one drops are toxic

>>44053036
>>44053124
>toxic
you mean parasitic :^)

>>44053144
no, i actually meant toxic
even if youre trolling, my point stands, throughout magic's history one-drops have been either broken to the point of being banned or just junk

>>44052926
>eldrazi ramp playing any copies of Natural Connection
Nissa's Renewal is the real deal though.

>>44052656
Correct. The block theme is allies vs eldrazi. Which is why no allies are being played and the only eldrazi is Ulamog.

>>44051246
If I had to guess, they had the following constraints on timing:

1. Ulamog's brood had to have Ingest, because consumption is Ulamog's thing.
2. Introducing a new Basic Land is more complex than Devoid (it's easier to grok, but it's much harder to strategize around, especially in Limited, which is a big damn deal), so Devoid was much better as Ulamog's Colorless Matters schtick since he already has the complexity of Ingest + Processors.
3. The general ranking of Eldrazi is Ulamog<Kozilek<Emrakul, and so they must have their sets in that order. It'd feel anticlimactic to go the other way around, and for Creative reasons Kozilek is much better as a surprise stealth threat.
4. Because the main thing the change does for design space is allow "Must pay in colorless" in mana costs, making the change at the beginning of a block with Eldrazi in would heavily signal what they planned to do with it, probably in advance of what they wanted for the Internet Hype Machine.

So their decision was to hold the change for when they'd actually use it, and that had to be the second set of the block.

>>44053180
>one-drops have been either broken to the point of being banned or just junk
This is not even remotely true actually kill yourself.

>>44027506
I am so glad I invested $500 into a landfall deck.

>>44053318
>spending 500 dollars on cardboard

>>44053345
Hey, some of it was shiny cardboard.

>>44053345
>tfw I realized I've spent thousands on literally just cardboard

>>44053345
>not spending thousands of dollars on cardboard and virtual cardboard.

>>44053345
>Believing that one piece of rectangular paper has more value than another

>>44053345
I've spent more than that on sets of cards

I'm looking at you, Tarmogoyf

>>44053442
Man, I fucking love my shiny cardboard, recently bought a shiny Theysa, love that piece of cardboard

>>44053318
>>44053559
Just remember that whenever you bought cards and have fun with it, there are nerds somewhere in the basement of their mother's house screaming at the screen because of it.
It made the cards felt more valuable.

>>44053618
Yeah, because god forbid I have fun with my hobbies

>>44053618
>implying the humor isnt self-deprecating instead of being sarcastic

>>44053244
Casting Nissa's Renewal with 2 Jaddi Offshoot in play is so satisfying. You can almost hear the groan in your opponent's mind.

>>44053714
in response to the triggers atarkas command :^)

>>44038769
As they should. They are usually very honest about having fucked up as soon as the next block is released.

>>44053750
And most of the time that's because they don't KNOW they've fucked up until then.

>>44038994
Except for when you need blue mana turn one and only have a filter land and a swamp in your hand. Or, the nightmare scenario, when you only have filter lands in your hand.

Filter lands, quite simply, aren't that good.

>>44047046
>There are no mechanics that are exclusive to colorless cards
Not yet, but we could have them now that we can have colorless cards that require specifically colorless mama to cast. For example, colorless cards could be the only ones allowed to mess with the exile zone.

>>44053244
To be fair, the entire block has yet to be released and we don't know how viable each strategy will be once it's all out.

Even then, it would honestly just be bad design/development to just make the most viable decks resolve around the Zendikar (Allies) vs Eldrazi. That destroys the variance you'd want in Standard. Constructive formats just doesn't lean towards a theme of cards and pushes towards mixing and matching of whatever the faction cards are. Limited is the environment where these thematic archetypes truly thrives.

One thing I'm wondering is...what the hell are the expeditions going to be in Oath?
We've got at the very least the allied filters confirmed. Probably the enemy filters. That's 10.
Enemy battlelands makes 15, so there's 5 left of the 20.
Painlands don't work, both ally and enemy cycles refer to locations outside Zendikar. Fastlands don't work for the same reason.
Future Sight lands have one of their number already in use guaranteed due to Mystic Gate being in, so they're probably not in.
Worldwake or BfZ/Oath manlands have too much text to be Expeditions. Same with the fancy Zendikar locations (Emeria, Valakut, etc)
This doesn't leave many options for other things to be reprinted.
Odyssey filters are possible but crap.
Anything uncommon would leave players outraged.
Can't be anything on the Reserved List, anything that's got too much text, or anything with a plane-specific name.

>>44054039
Exactly, which opens for possible cool design space which has literally never been explored before (to my knowledge).

>>44053816
Isn't that whole point of good deck building skills? To figure out the right ratio of cards (in this case lands) to maximize efficiency of your cards.
Obviously you wouldn't put in as many tangolands as you can in your deck without at least having a decent likelihood getting those lands to ETB untapped. Just like you wouldn't put in a bunch of filterlands just because it's a good mana fixer.

>>44054305
There wont be enemy battlelands.
They will never print 2 of same color dual rare cycles in one set. The enemy color spot is filled by manlands already.
The most often predicted are the 10 manlands though it's still unconfirmed. Since filterlands are spoiled already then it's most probably gonna be 10 manlands 10 filterlands.

I am hype for a manland in twin, might be trash but might be alright.

>>44054404
That's just it though, the manlands have too much text for the Expedition frame.

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>>44054446
Nah, did you see the text frame on expedition cards? It's fucking huge and kinda obscures the art.

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>>44054474
And the fetches take up a good chunk of that text frame.

is there a fun midrangey deck in standard?

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>>44054545
Now compare that to the manlands

>>44054579
They can adjust the font size. Look at Lavaclaw and Colonnade's font size difference.

>>44051511
Wizards does not design around any of the eternal formats. Standard>Draft>Sealed is the order of importance. Any EDH cards are coincidence due to Timmy liking big costs. Timmy, Spike and Johnny are the ones they are satisfying with this.

>>44054618
Lavaclaw's already hitting lowered text size.
Wizards isn't Konami - they aren't going to keep lowering text size just to fit shit on the card, if it gets to the point where it's Too Small they stop and go back.

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What about these? They fit pretty well.

One (1) week until spoiler season starts. Hopefully they saved the interesting and good cards for this set. Just please give me face burn back in standard. I play control in Modern. Standard is the only place I can be a face slamming faglord on the cheap.

>>44054649
We'll see. I still say it will be manlands.

>>44054667
too cheapshit

>>44028073
>no one gives a fuck about filter lands

Graven cairns is the only one going for less than $10 right now

>>44030778
Funny how the mystic gate only got "leaked" after the new colourless mana symbol got "leaked" isn't it?

>>44035938
processors are delicious for mimeoplasm decks

>>44048538
There are no 'generic mana generators'. You cannot generate generic mana. Generic mana cannot enter your mana pool. Generic mana only exists in costs. "Generic mana generator" is not a thing that exists.
And this is exactly the reason why the change is good. People not understanding it are the very reason why it should be done, because right now a lot of people don't understand the difference between generic mana and colorless mana, because they use the same symbol.

I am regretting spending money on bfz drafts, it's my first entry to the series and outside of like expeditions and gideon, none of the cards seem like they hold any value outside of limited

I should probably just stop now and wait to see the verdict on oath

I have a feeling they'll blow it out with innistrad as every older player creams themselves about that expansion

>>44049674
wonky control decks wont mind in draft.

>>44052390
>when they decided to make the newest block's theme as "fatties matter" they gave us pic related as the best ramp spell in the set
They have mentioned this several times before. When the theme os block tells you to do X, the tools that let you do X are always worse than they'd be in a block that didn't tell you to do X.

>>44055336
Source? I took a quick look at Innistrad and Mirrodin and noticed more graveyard fuel and artifacts than most other blocks.

>>44027506
Dies to Rhino it's shit

>>44027506
Well I got two EDH decks I want to run this in, so that's great.

>>44055900
He has no source because his claim is bullshit.

That said, WotC HAS said that good ramp (1 CMC dorks) is "too strong for standard" and that they are making ramp worse to slow down the format.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/106100196288/why-are-recent-manadorks-more-than-1-cmc-the-only

>>44055900
More yes. Not better.

>>44056389
No, Maro has mentioned it before, and probably some of the designers as well. If the block wants you to do something then they don't just hand you all the tools you need to accomplish that, because they feel it would lead to a worse format. Instead they just sub-par tools so that you have to explore them a little bit, and realize that even though they wouldn't be playable anywhere else, they are in this particular format because they put cards in your graveyard or because they targets multiple creatures or because they have a particular creature type.

>>44056389
1 cmc mana dorks were around for 20 years and no one ever complained about them. In reality people are more triggered by an Island being played than a fucking Mystic Elf.

>>44040478
>putting shit in your EDH deck

Do people really do this?

>>44056634
It will go nicely into my Omnath EDH deck.

You forget that people only consider a card "good" if it will see 4 of play in either modern or legacy.

Standard playable only, it's shit.

EDH playable, it's shit.

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>>44051511
>The thing is wotc has to make cards that appeal to fnm standard guys, modern people, casuals, edh players, draft and sealed fans
>modern people
You are retarded, they themselfs have said time and time again that they only make cards for standard (for new shit, not commander products and the like) and limited and just ban something if it's a problem in non rotating formats. By the same coin they don't make cards for EDH but EDH is a casual format so LITERALLY every card is playable there, unless you are talking about "competative EDH" in which case you are double the cancer of a normal EDHfag and that is alot of cancer to begin with.

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>>44056670
Not true, they've made cards in currents sets for eternal formats before. I just got back into mtg after a good 5 year hiatus and last I played they made Mindbreak trap which was made with counter wars and force of will bullshit in mind.

>>44056943
I guess you know more about Wizards than Wizards themselfs then.

>>44056965
Weird because they even said they made that card with legacy in mind. Yes, much of the cards are made for standard/limited, but that doesn't mean they don't also throw in goodies for larger formats. Why do you think so many cards say "each opponent" or "target opponent" rather than target player? They're made with multiplayer games in mind like 2 headed giant and/or edh.

>>44056943
>>44056943
Didn't they say they made Mindbreak because they wanted to make a counter that countered uncounterable spells? Also citing a set that is 6 years old, a set that wasn't even made under NWO, is not proof of anything.

>>44057036
I haven't played in 5 years, I'm not sure what else I can cite desu senpai. But yes, you are partially right about the countering uncounterables. They made it into a trap card to give an answer to counter wars when tapped out.

>>44056943
>>44056997
Sometimes they realize that they can make a card that might see play in older formats without breaking Standard in two. However, this is almost always just a theoretical, hypothetical, what if. Essentially
>I think this would be a cool thing to be able to do against Storm decks in Legacy and Vintage
>this could be a cool answer against Stax
>This might be a cool tool for Delver decks
and then they don't ever really test wether that is the case or not, because they simply don't have the resources to test for that.

>>44057036
>a set that wasn't even made under NWO
That's wrong. Zendikar was, in fact, the first set that was designed under NWO. Shards of Alara had been retroactively fitted into NWO, but Zendikar was from the very first day of design an NWO block.

>>44057362
It techinically was the first set to be made under NWO but NWO wasn't really applied rigorously during the creation of the whole block, according to MaRo at least. Hell, he hails Rise limited as one of the biggest fails under NWO ever.

>>44057362
what's NWO? I'm pretty out of the loop

>>44057501
New World Order

>>44057613
what is that in regards to magic though? Was there a change in personnel or something?

>>44055196
If nothing produces generic mana then what do the blighted lands produce? waste mana?

>>44057448
ROE is the only set since the implementation of NWO to not have followed it. Mindbreak Trap is not from ROE.

>>44057785
Colorless mana.

>>44057870
What do the wastes produce?

>>44057884
Colorless.

>>44057693
What New World Order means is that complexity should be very restricted at lower rarities. NWO does not affect Mythics or Rares at all, and is very lax about uncommons. All it really says is that Commons should be easy to understand for beginners to ease the learning curve.

>>44058265
>this is what Wizards actually believes