Warhammer 40k General

>>43952332
Anyone got the new FW Doom of Mymeara? What new formations are there to the Warhost / Pale court host?

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So, how do you feel about Forge World? Do you allow it in your games? Do you think it's too expensive?

>>43952382
Forgeworld is kinda hit and miss.

All the ork vehicles are fantastic, so are the Imp Guard models. I don't really think that the big titans and flyers really fit the game, knights and such are just maybe a little bit over the top already.

>>43952382

Why bother banning FW. It's never been more OP than GW's regular shit until just now, and that's only because Eldar Corsairs are just variants of GW's already OP 7E Eldar.

>>43952382

I can afford FW but the price could be lower. Especially since they recently raised the prices a lot for no reason other than "because GW raised prices and we can't have FW be cheaper than GW."

What I hate is washing that oily shit off resin and dealing with warping and mold slips.

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>>43952382
Forge world stuff is generally better balanced than GW stuff, superheavies and Eldar being the most obvious exception. Anyone who disallows it is a little bitch.
The price could/should be lower but that's not saying anything.

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>>43952382

Love 'em. Have an Elysian army. I pray to the God Emperor they do some addons for Tempestus Scions (stormtroopers).

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>>43952523
R'varna>stormsludge

>>43952523
Pretty much this. The only reason people are antsy about allowing it is because they don't have much experience with FW and thus don't know the rules (>what do you mean your Russes are ObjSec?)

It especially used to be like this way back in the dark days of 4th-5th where FW was just about popular enough for rumors of massively overpowered titans to spread but rare enough that nobody actually saw any of their units in action.

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>MFW Just learnt that templates take from the front and not from the blast/flame.

>>43952564

Wow that's really good OSL

Best photo I've seen that captures the simulated look of neon LED lighting.

Is it imagination or overaged the fanbase?

>>43952607
Barrage would like a word with you. Also, if you're the one using the templates, this is a bad thing, since you can't snipe special weapons/characters with most templates. Barring Barrage.

Anyone had success with inferno pistols?

>>43952659

Only take them when you can't take melta guns and it's not worth taking power fists. Which is very rare, you usually will be taking one or the other in BA.

>>43952659
Their only redeeming quality is that they're better than the plasma pistol in most cases.

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>>43952649
The one being hit, means I can just keep my plasmadudes at the back and wait for the shit wave without fearing them being sniped.

Has anyone found use for a squad of storm troopers?

>>43951787

So, any answers for this?

>>43952728
Suicide melta for cheap mostly.
They could chew marines up if you got lucky deep striking with hellguns but it's still finicky.

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Doe flamer templates target individual models?
Can a ghostkeel's holophoton countermeasures stop a flamer weapon from firing, or just blast templates?

>>43952843
No
Both but not Flamers in overwatch

>>43952843
No.

Yes, it forces the unit that declared a shooting attack at the Ghostkeel to snap fire for that turn. Blasts and templates cannot be snap fired.

Note that this also means if you declare a shooting attack with a Superheavy at a Ghostkeel, it can force the Superheavy to snap fire even if the Superheavy then decides to shoot its other weapons at different targets.

>>43952843
has to be on the maximum number of targets, you can't snipe. The wounds will come of the closest target to you anyway.

>>43952843
>>43952870
>>43952887
You can fire flamers on overwatch "wall of death" comes into play - roll D3 wounds.

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>Hammer of the Nameless
For some reason that hurts.
>many Blood Ravens believe that this hammer was used to banish the plague daemon Ulkiar back to the Warp.
Technically I used a plasma pistol and that really great power sword that did 272 damage if I can remember correctly. Let them believe what they want to believe I guess. Belief makes things real anyway.

>>43952916
That was my point. You can't snapfire a template so Ghostkeel would stop Flamers, but in Overwatch they hit automatically without any template nonsense.

>>43952778
>Blood Ravens stealing land raiders from Chaos
WILL IT EVER END?

>>43952921
>tfw specced Hairgel as shooty
>tfw that
Fuck the canon. Cyrus was the traitor and you can't make me believe otherwise.

>>43952966
They're stealing it back, anon
It's a Land Raider Redeemer, which silly heretics don't get

>>43952966
Chaos stole from them first and the Ravens don't take too kindly to that. Once the chapter has been redeemed their stealing abilities will be restored to their prime.
>>43952983
Why Cyrus?

>>43952921
What difficulty? I went back and started replaying DoW2 starting on Vanilla but on Primarch difficulty. I can't believe how bad I am, having to constantly kill a squad then fall back to regroup. I get my shit kicked in by Wraithlords, Bright Lances and Nids bigger than gaunts. I feel like restarting and using Cyrus, maybe try a ranged Captain build instead of Health/Melee for once.

>>43953041
I'm still very new to RTSs so beginner. I will go up the difficulty for each campaign. IG will be the last with the highest difficulty.

>>43953034
>Why Cyrus?
Honestly no particular reason, but the whole pick-a-traitor thing CR had going was fun to me. It makes me sad Retribution shits on the choice you had and just outright says "this is what happened and how".

I suppose it was inevitable, since porting over a CR save to carry over said choices is just a pipe dream, not to mention players coming in to the series with Retribution would get the default >canon scenario anyway.

Tl;dr I'm still salty Retribution sacrificed the depth of Vanilla/CR and yet okay with it because at least we got to play as all the other factions which is cool, genuinely

>>43953117
Steve Blum must have been a fan favorite I guess.

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>>43952966
>tfw Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics will be "All Independant Character models may take Relics from any Imperium codex."

>>43953150
>CAD
>3 HQs

Speaking of Dawn of War 2, was I the only person who was mad that they never added Chaplains? Chaplains are one of my personal favorite units a Space Marine can use. Their Crozius is badass and it was awesome to see them whack shit HARD in DoW1 Winter Assault and onward.

>>43953206
Ahhhhhh I forgot they reduced it down to 1-2 HQs

>>43953227
What? FOC has been 1-2 HQ since forever.

>>43953094
>IG will be the last with the highest difficulty
Sounds rough, I'm not good at RTS since I play campaigns and skirmishes against AI (DoW 1) for fun. If the damage scaling is the same for each campaign when it comes to difficulty, have fun drowning your enemies in blood.

>>43953181
This is just the 4th company. They're giving Custode gear to 4th company.
>>43953213
I'm disappointed about that too. And we have no Raptors for the CSM. Assault marines and stormboyz are okay apparently.

>>43953213
The first time I played dawn of war I didn't know about em.
Are they in the elite mod?

>>43953257
I'm trying to figure out why we got a Tau commander instead of Nid DLC. How does he play into this? Did he get sucked into the Warp and ended up fighting with the other heroes in Last Stand?

>>43953255
You get 2 optional HQs...only at 2000 points though.

>>43953262
No Raptors/Warp Talons indeed :(

>>43953264
Not sure it's been years.

>>43953307
Tau were a popular race in DoW1. Some fags myself included were slightly upset they weren't in DoW2 at all. Same with Necrons but after DoW1 seriously FUCK NECRONS.

>>43953338
They got the nerf they deserved in Soulstorm.

If I am running an Ultramarines army, can I have an Ultramarines Allied Detachment, too?

>>43953372
I do know you can't ally the same chapter to itself.

>>43953356
Agreed, but most of my online playtime was spend in the DC era. And in Soulstorm, everyone played DEldar anyway. Let's not even talk about regular Eldar.

>>43953372
No. Marines can only ally with themselves if the allied detachment uses different CTs. You could take a second CAD, but you'd need more troops.

>>43953320
I actually liked the Raptor quotes from DoW 1.
>>43953338
I hoped for SoBs for DoW2.

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To fellow DAfags - do you even bother with the Lion's Blade unless going for the free transports ?

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>>43953400
>>43953408
Okay, reposting my Ultramarines army again. This time actually battleforged.

1850 points

+++Ultramarines CAD+++

---HQ---

Chief Librarian Tigurius - 165 points

Chaplain Cassius - 130 points


---Troops---

(5) Scout Squad - 55 points

(5) Scout Squad - 55 points


---Fast Attack---

Drop Pod - 50 points
-Deathwind Launcher


---Heavy Support---

(3) Devastator Centurion Squad - 250 points
-3 Grav-Cannons and Grav-Amps
-Omniscope for Sargent


---Lords of War---

Marneus Calgar - 285 points
-Armor of Antilochus


+++Ultramarines CAD+++

---HQ---

Captain Sicarius - 175 points


---Troops---

(5) Tactical Squad - 95 points
-1 Missile Launcher with Flakk Missile upgrade

(5) Scout Squad


---Dedicated Transport---

Rhino - 35 points


+++Ultramarines Skyhammer Annihilation Force+++

(5) Assault Squad - 95 points
-2 Flamers
-Jump Packs

(5) Assault Squad - 95 points
-2 Flamers
-Jump Packs

(5) Devastator Squad - 120 points
-4 Multi-Meltas
-Combi-Melta for Sargent

Drop Pod - 35 points

(5) Devastator Squad - 120 points
-4 Multi-Meltas
-Combi-Melta for Sargent

Drop Pod - 35 points
>>43953422
Chaos had my favorite quotes in 40k overall. And yeah I wanted SoB, too!

>>43953408
Yeah DEldar was crazy good the Necron of SS. Eldar are the one race that has always been good throughout both games being high or top tier.

>>43952332
ok 40k general

i took some advice last week and bought the Dark Vengence pack

I am just starting and have a few questions:

1. are there any guidelines as to what each of my space marines can have as far as weapons go?

2. do i have enough to build both the Chaos and Dark Angels in the pack?

3. Was i fool think that glue came with this

4. do i need a codex during the assembly phase?

>>43953481
Only against the choppiest armies, or for some variety. Most of the formations are just too unwieldy, and the good ones can be taken outside of the Lion's Blade anyway.

>>43953530
I pray for Sisters getting the love they need in DoW 3. Forget Tau, Eldar, and Crons. SoBs are far more deserving in needs a bone thrown to them department. And after some thought I liked the vanilla troop deployment better than in Retribution.

>>43953571
>1
Yes, the codex. Don't worry about it for DV though.

>2
Yes.

>3
Yes.

>4
No, because unlike most models DV are all snap and slot fit. You can't not give them what GW wants you to give them, which are legal configurations (if shitty on the Chosen). Well, you could convert them, but a beginner shouldn't do that without extensive modelling experience.

>>43953632
Thanks man

One more question for when i get all this build, do i have to paint them a certain color scheme to identify what branch they are or is it mostly just pick from a pallet?

>>43953695
You can paint them whatever you feel like. The paintjob is purely cosmetic unless you're playing certain flavors of power armor. Dark Angels are one of those flavors, but if you want to play them, you can still paint them as whatever and fluff it as a successor chapter.

>>43953628
If SoB get good enough representation in Dawn of War 3 it is the next bit of hope us SoB fans can get in terms of possible updates related to them.

>>43953571
1. Yes, it's in the Codex.
2. Yes, it's all in there. Giving out a "starter set" that requires other sets to make work would be dickish even by GW standards.
3. Yes. All of the minis but Vrosh are snap-fit, so glue is theoretically unnecessary, but occasionally helpful.
4. No. Since the DV minis are snap-fit, they'll go together in a legal configuration. For future sets, a codex is helpful for planning what you make, though, and you'll need it sooner or later.

Some other notes:
-The points are out of whack. DA has around 100 more than Chaos (a little less since 7th's price cuts). If you have the codices, wargear can even that back out without needing more models.
-Units on both sides have other rules than stated in the quick reference. Again, it's all in the codex.
-Balthasar isn't allowed to have a bolt pistol and a combi, it's one or the other.
-Since you're here anyway, the codices can be found in the MEGA link in the OP. Buy the side you want later if you want a legal/hard copy.

>>43953481
I seriously don't know why they didn't do 3 formations per wing plus something for Ironwing that didn't require a Land Raider tax.

>>43953787
>>43953728
Thanks again!

>>43953739
Cross your fingers, and repeat the litines that makes the Emperor listen to your prayers. Abaddon could possibly be in DoW 3 given that he seems to have a hateboner for Magnus's kids. I hope he does have a different voice. I know Chaos does things to you, but maybe since Abby wasn't in person there that was just his phone voice.

>>43953907
I wouldn't mind having Eliphas back since he's cooler than Abby. Also as a Word Bearer again please. Or maybe actual Thousand Sons considering their connection to the Blood Ravens.

>>43954010
Nah, Eliphas is on his honey moon with his nagging wife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLLL0drCY8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPJhGK4IFOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1tCHVysyUs
Some of these sounds are suggesting that honeymoon is going well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWkZuUlBhW8
The background music just makes Eliphas sound even more deranged.

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>>43953841
Meant for >>43953576

>>43953628

I doubt it. SoB could become a popular faction just like Tau or even Space Marines, but GW doesn't feel like it apparently.

They'd rather put all that money into making models like Nagash and Archaon and pouring it into Age of Sigmar instead because the asshole devs like WHFB even though all their money comes from 40k.

>>43954314
They can make models for the AdMech but they can't for Sisters? How does that make sense?

>>43954393
It makes sense when you replace "can't" with "won't." I won't speculate as to their motives, but not updating Sisters is something GW chooses not to do, not something they are unable to do.

>>43954427
>make new Sisters models
>get more money
GW, it's not that hard.

>>43952523
Does anyone have the pdf for the flamer using riptide version? Or at least what book it's in?

>>43954393
>>43954427
>do Sisters have models?
>are Sisters making us money?
>yes to both
>do AdMech have models?
>are AdMech making us money?
>no to both

>>43954314
>SoB could become a popular faction just like Tau or even Space Marines
Uh, yeah, about that. Why weren't Sisters the most popular army back when the models were recent? Because if they sold enough, surely GW would update them from metal.

were sisters popular when they came out or more popular when they became the faction that doesn't get support?

>>43954471
I said new models.

>>43954497
>were sisters popular when they came out

Yeah they were popular, as much as grey knights I would say, then they started to get left behind and people realized they were never going to get an update. A lot like Black Templars actually, they were popular back in the day then became forgotten as they were never updated.

>>43954497
They didn't sell all that well when they were released. I don't remember much about back then, but I know more Sisters players now than I did then. /tg/ and a bunch of other hipster faggots have just jumped on them because they get no support and it's the only time whining about a faction is warranted

>>43954506
I know, but "has old models" beats "has no models". GW doesn't even have to pay production for its Sisters because their entire stock is just sitting in a warehouse.

>>43954494

I said could, moron. If SoB had the amount of attention and good models that AoS got, they would easily become a good army. Tau were never THAT popular either. Do you think all the 6E Riptide faggots and 7E Kauyon faglords are from 4E?

>>43954494
>>43954551

And yet DE keep getting plastic updates.

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What do you guys think of my Skitarii and space wolf list?

Skitarii Vanguard (10)
Omnispex, Power Sword, 3x Plasma Calivers
Transport (Rhino or Drop Pod)
250 points

Skitarii Rangers (7)
Omnispex, 2x Transuranic Arquebus
147 points

Skitarii Rangers (7)
Omnispex, 2x Transuranic Arquebus
147 points

Ironstrider Ballistarii (3)
3x TL Cognis Autcannons
165 points

Onager Dunecrawler (2)
2x Neutron Laser
230 points

Wolf Guard Battle Leader
Power Fist, Storm Shield, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount
165 points

Thunderwolf Cavalry (3)
Power Fist, Storm Shield
160 points

Grey Hunters (5)
Plasmagun
Transport (Rhino or Drop Pod)
120 points

Grey Hunters (5)
Meltagun
Transport (Rhino or Drop Pod)
115 points

1499 points total

It needs some work, but I don't know where. This is my first army for 40k, I mostly stick with the new AoS, my first table top.

>>43954598
But that's the thing, who fucking plays Sisters? Like, at all? I've only seen them on the internet, and I've never seen them posting armies. So why should GW use money to update a model line that may not be successful?

>>43954621
They got ONE plastic update, in 5th ed. What new model did they get in 6th? I cant remember, I think the wrack pilots and thats it.

>>43954641

Who played Sigmarines?

>>43954641
>who fucking plays Sisters? Like, at all? I've only seen them on the internet

You couldve said the same thing about DE before their update, GW went out on a limb with them and it paid off.

The crux of the matter is that since GW wont update SoB they wont get an influx of new blood, its circular logic that can only be broken if GW bets on the Sisters like they did with DE.

>>43954621
well we know that kelly likes them so DE were bound to get an update, but do any of the devs or modelers like sisters? nids and orks are loved so they get tons of stuff

>>43954699
not him but i've stopped by the local GW a few times to see people playing full armies of sigi-dudes

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Still need two Grenade Launcher bikes and a black knight to complete the Command Squad but besides my god awful painting I am glad I won't be fielding grays.

For my two bike troops I got two of the Dark Vengeance squad and will probably just right on their base their actual load out.

>>43954725
Kelly said he would like to make a Sister codex and Cruddance has a Sister army.

>>43954641
>So why should GW use money to update a model line that may not be successful?

AoS and Archaon were already mentioned. Why indeed? Guarantee you SoB would make more money and see more play than AoS, especially if you gave them crazy rules like Eldar or Tau. Yet GW keeps throwing money at AoS and not SoB.

Limited Edition Formation

Saints of Fire

1 Living Saint
X Sisters of Battle etc etc

All melta double range
All melta cost no points
All melta reroll to hit
All melta reroll to penetrate

New plastic living saint with customization. New updated CAD SoB sculpts.

It would automatically sell out.

I don't even like SoB. In fact, I sometimes post about how SoBfags shit up the board with their whining. But when GW is currently doing all this stupid shit with AoS and the giant Glottkin, Archaon, Nagash models, "SoB aren't popular" is no longer a valid argument for GW to not spend money on the models.

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>>43954759
>It would automatically sell out.
>this obscure faction played by only a few people would sell out in 5 minutes

>>43954806

Rules sell. Void Shield sold out. House Terryn sold out. Anything that's 40k, limited, and has GOOD RULES, sells out.

You keep comparing current shitty SoB and using it as an excuse, but those DON'T HAVE GOOD RULES.

>>43954699
That's kinda different, no? WHFB was kinda dead/dying, and Gee Dubya needed something, anything, to replace it. 40k is selling very well, as is Forge World stuff for 40k.

>>43954806
New people might think they're interesting enough to buy.

>>43954848

SoB are dead and dying. The difference is GW doesn't need to replace them, but the argument was that "SoB can't be revived" which is false as AoS proved.

I'll break it down for you retards to understand:

- WHFB was dying and unpopular
- SOB are dying and unpopular
- GW wastes money on WHFB, it sells again
- GW wastes money on SOB, ???

FILL IN THE BLANK, DIPSHITS

>>43954890
But why should GW do it? They're already making enough money from the rest of 40k, why take a gamble?

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>>43954641
Friend of mine plays them. With them costing the money they do because GW won't update them I don't see any new players picking them up. You could get 20 tactical marines for the price of 10 SoB. They cost as much as a unit of blood dragons did when everyone got all up in arms about their massive price rise, and they're a core unit of which you'll need two of at least, and many of those models will also be needed for their other squads.

I'm certain people will wanna play SoB if their models got updated. He'll I'd do it if I hadn't just started a CSM army.

>>43954928
Why not take a gamble and make more money? Why gamble with DE and not SoB? Time will tell whether GW will squat or update SoB, they will run out of pewter minis eventually.

>>43954956
I would guess because DE sell more than SoB? And you don't seem to be realizing how much GW would need to do for Sisters to update them.

>>43954997
>I would guess because DE sell more than SoB?

Before their plastic update? Not really, no.

I'd start Sisters just on the basis of fucking rewarding them for good behaviour at this point, and the only "Armies of the Imperium" I own is a Culexus.

Which I proxy.

With an old Necron Pariah.

Because that's what I'm using the rules for.

>>43954928

I don't know and I don't care. I hate SoB. I'm just saying you can no longer use "SoB are unpopular" as an argument anymore because GW is obviously taking gambles and revitalizing unpopular things and creating new popular things.

Sigmarines, Imperial Knights, Skitarii, Mechanicus, Age of Sigmar, Stormcast Eternals, and those stupid giant models like Archaon and Nagash all sit there sticking out like sore thumbs and retards go "well GW can't afford to make nice/big models for SoB!" Really, nigger? The money prints itself if you do it right.

>>43955020

They didn't exactly take much risk with the Imperial knights, using one body with monopose legs to represent 5 different units, all of which had at least slightly, often drastically different bodies in their original release.

>>43955123

To create the IK at all was already a risk. Plastic machines aren't cheap. You could say Knights print money, but that's with hindsight. FW titans aren't the hottest sellers and IKs weren't super popular from epic.

>>43952382
As long as they have rules, FW models are just as much a part of 40k as GW models.
The only people still refusing to play vs. FW models are just bitter, jealous poors.

>>43954997
>And you don't seem to be realizing how much GW would need to do for Sisters to update them.

As it stands now you can make the entire army with four boxes

One that has 10 Sisters, bunch of special/heavy weapons, this is your troops/elites/heavy support infantry

One box for Repentia

One box for Walkers

One box for Jump Infantry

Then one or two snapfits for HQs.

Thats much less risk than the DE update and about as many units as the GK line, hell the repentia and jump infantry box could be to build two different units from the same box if they wanted to!

>>43955166

Oh please, it's a moderately cool giant robot marketed as a titan at a lower price point than a real titan, and they made it avaliable to all loyalist humans.

>>43955123

Why is GW "answering customer demands" and creating all these new 40k factions though? SoB have plenty of demands for new models. You can't argue that "they don't buy the old models" when the demand is for NEW models, and you can't claim the demand isn't actually there when we see it so often that we talk about it regularly and we're even talking about it now. Besides, we know GW doesn't do any market research whatsoever anyway.

The only answer as to why SoB are as they are now is because GW simply doesn't want to devote resources to them. Upper management probably doesn't believe they will sell like the other stuff they've recently released.

>>43955237

They made the failure that is Militarum Tempestus that is available to all loyalist humans rather than actually keeping an existing faction that's been in the game since codexes were a thing up to date.

They should never have said "we won't squat any factions ever again" and just squat SoB.

>>43955233
But that's a whole bunch of new sculpts, new molds, and possibly a new codex.

>>43954997
1 Saint
1 SoB customizeable Cannoness boxed set
1 SoB tact squad boxed set
1 Seraphim boxed set
1 Chainsaw strippers boxed set
1 Chainsaw stripper robot boxed set
1 Immolator boxed kit
1 Organ tank thing boxed set
1 Rhino with 1 new bit boxed set
Maybe one Celestian and Sob wannabe Devastators set or maybe even a command squad set, these three would just be half a tact squad with a few different bits like more weapons and they'd be sold for the same as the tact squad even though there'd be half the models in and would have a lot in common with the cannoness and seraphim sculpts. All their vehicles would consist of a few extra bits sold along with a rhino or just one upgrade kit. That's more or less the entirety of their model line that just got updated.

SoB would actually need a decent amount of plastic to be modernized. But they did it with DE so that's not an excuse.

>>43955244
>when we see it so often that we talk about it regularly and we're even talking about it now
Your mistake is thinking that /tg/ represents the 40k community at large.

>>43952887
>Note that this also means if you declare a shooting attack with a Superheavy at a Ghostkeel, it can force the Superheavy to snap fire even if the Superheavy then decides to shoot its other weapons at different targets.

Or you just shoot at the Ghostkeel last.

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>>43954314
Ok look. I don't give a fuck about sisters.

All my friends don't give a fuck about sisters.

Nobody in my lgs gives a fuck about sisters (we chatted one day).

Nobody in the gaming club I go to gives a fuck about sisters.

A vast swathe of the Internet views them as little better as marines -1. And probably also doesn't give a fuck about them.

And yeah, I am using personal anecdotes here, but you know what? I am willing to bet I am pretty dead on the mark here, just based from what I have seen here, on forums and other places.

They have their fans, everything does, but don't act like you will fly up to Tau tier popularity with an update and new models. You would probably go up to Dark Eldar tier.

It's not just the models believe it or not. It's the fact that a lot of people don't care for their fluff and don't find them particularly interesting. The only part that people seemed to find interesting and what they had vague knowledge of was the living saints, but that's it.

I feel for you. I do. It sucks that your army is not being updated. But the fucking CONSTANT moaning about this is pissing me off. And the fact that people started sisters probably knowing their update status and yet moaned like they had suffered years of this also pisses me off.

Switch faction or some shit. But don't act like you are some beautiful rosebud of a faction just waiting to be set free. The money that went into fucking AOS would not have goddamn went into the who- gives- a- fuck faction of 40k had they not rebooted fantasy. They aren't "just hating" or some crap.

It's just nobody cares.

Needed that off my chest for a long time now.

>>43955262

The stormtrooper supplement is, and let's not fucking kid ourselves, a guard supplement.

Oh sure, usuable as and marked as a full codex.

But the difference is murky at best and disingenious at worst: It's just a couple units lifted out and given some variant stuff like Haemonculus Covens, only they reprinted the stat pages.

>>43955306

Your mistake is thinking GW has any notion of what the 40k community actually wants.

The amount of passing interest in SoB is actually pretty high. You don't have to be a hardcore SoB fan who will main them as a primary army to qualify as an SoB supporter/customer. A lot of new players or random purchases WILL happen if the rules or models are good enough. MT is almost as bad as SoB yet models are top seller. IG is also a shit army in general, so people aren't snapping up those MT for rules.

>>43955330
>They have their fans, everything does, but don't act like you will fly up to Tau tier popularity with an update and new models

They will with OP rules, moron. We've seen it happen repeatedly, for YEARS. 2E flying circus. Tau Fish of Fury. 5E leafblower. 5E BA. 5E SW. 5E Draigowing. 5E Necrons. 6E Necron bakery. 6E White Dwarf Flamer Daemons. 6E Flying Circus. 6E Wave Serpent [no longer in stock] spam. 6E Riptide spam.

Rules sell. SoB will sell well if they are the strongest faction in the game. Even WITHOUT models.

>>43955330

Okay mister anecdote: Pretty much everyone where I live would love to see plastic sisters. To a "What the fuck are they doing not releasing them it would print money" extent.

>>43955330
>only fans of factions care about them

No shit? What you basically described is every faction that's not space marines, or OP like Tau/Eldar/Necrons.

OH LOOK THAT WAS THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT TO BEGIN WITH

Immolator is currently sold out.

>>43955416

>SoB strongest faction

I'm pretty sure the community would implode entirely if someone outclassed Eldar so heavily they took their objectively the strongest title.

>>43955416
De didnt have awesome rules back in 5th, they had ok rules but nothing compared to BA or SW and they sold like a motherfucker. Tyranids and Orks have also sold very well even though they havent had good rules since 4th ed but they are always getting an update, like space marines who have been mostly average yet sell like whore on heat because they always get an update.

OP rules are not the only thing that sells, you need models too. Hell I played BT terminator missile spam and it wrecked face in 5th ed but they were so fucking old by then that no one played them.

>>43955372
>The amount of passing interest in SoB is actually pretty high

Yeah, nobody talks about them. On forums/imageboards, or in meatspace. Nobody talks about the fluff, or "Your Girls", or homebrew. The only time they're talked about is bitching for new models, and then it's only like 5 people, and it's always on the internet. You're seriously overestimating how popular they are. I know it sucks, but stop acting like they're printable money.

>>43954641
>who fucking plays Sisters? Like, at all? I've only seen them on the internet

Theres a guy that goes up to my flgs for pick up games that plays SoB. Theyre pretty nice, hes got all the vehicle kits complete and painted. He even custom built a big organ and put it on a Baneblade which he has a laminated page of rules for. Very modest stats iirc.

I saw him get tabled in back to back games vs. a kid playing unpainted grey plastic Eldar. He had two Wraithknights with D Cannons. Nice kid, but he doesnt get it yet. The SoB guy was a good sport.

>>43955524

You're nuts. I've had something like seven or eight conversations about SoB face to face in the last half year, and I'm an antisocial fuck.

>>43954890
You know, assuming everyone is stupid/you're smarter than everyone is itself a characteristic of stupid people.

>>43955582
>>43955524
Get this: Meta varies from area to area in regards to which factions people play and like.

>>43955416
>>43955433
>>43955451
Say the three SOB players.

They are fucking boring to most people. You massively overestimate how popular they are. You scream at people for using personal anecdotes yet you are basically doing the same thing, they will sell "because new models/ rules."

And I can guarantee you the people in my lgs will continue to not give a shit about them.

>>43953157
I dunno, I got tired of Martellus and Cyrus saying the exact same shit every time I clicked on them.

>>43954631
Looks cool.

There's not a whole lot you can do wrong with Skitarii or Space Yiffs.

so i'm not the best sculptor but if i made a scarf for a herald that'd be good enough for a skulltaker counts as right?

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Haven't been able to play in over a month. Can you guys post pics from your last game? Helps with the craving.

>>43954997
>You don't seem to be realizing how much GW would need to do for Admech to release them

My TPD says "01101000 01101001".

>>43955656
I guess Cyrus was too critical for plot.

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>>43952332
Folks Im having touble fitting the under mounted shuriken cannon on the wave serpent. It seems to be some sort of snap fit but it won't fit at all, I have been straining for ages to get it to slot in.

Any Eldar players know what I mean?

>>43955625
Mechanicus is fucking boring to most people. You massively overestimate how popular they are. You scream at people for using personal anecdotes yet you are basically doing the same thing, they will sell "because new models/ rules."

And I can guarantee you the people in my lgs will continue to spend about eight grand a month on them.

>>43955610

Except /tg/ 40k threads have a large amount of idiots, and your generalizing backfires to you as well.

>>43955625
>says he's not an SoB player multiple times
>tells people to read the thread

And yet still this retard is calling them an SoBfag. Try using logic in your refutation instead of anecdotes and ad hominem. Oh wait, you can't.

>>43955625
>new models and OP rules sell well
>use those as an example
>that's a personal anecdote

Nigger what? How the fuck is Eldar and Tau being OP and stated best sellers by GW themselves a personal anecdote you stupid motherfucker?

>>43955905
>this retard
>u can't
>d-don't use ad hominem on m-me!

Fuck off.

>>43955802
>most

Nope. They had a 30k and 40k line and both sold like crazy. They have a very unique aesthetic, unlike really anything else in the setting. And generally even people who don't like the model line seem to enjoy hearing their fluff and how they fucked the imperium.

Also they are as integral to the Imperium as Space Marines, unlike a certain other power armoured faction.

But nice try.

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Why are pathfinders with rail rifles so fucking cool looking. Don't mind me, just punching holes through any armour from a mile away.

Just wish the new boxes had sniping-oriented poses like these.

>>43955959
Nope. They had a 40K line way back and sold like crazy. They have a very unique aesthetic, unlike really anything else in the setting. And generally even people who don't like the model line seem to enjoy hearing their fluff and how they defend the Imperium.

Also they are as integral to the Imperium as Space Marines, since they're the fighting arm of the Ecclesiarchy, which is just as big and powerful as the Admech.

But nice try :^)

>>43956046
Unique aesthetic? You mean power armour and bolters?

Mmmkay.

>SoBfags shitting up another thread

Can we argue about literally ANYTHING ELSE

>>43956046
>They had a 40K line way back and sold like crazy
But they didn't sell like crazy, or Gee Dubs would have updated them.

>>43956046
>SOBs
>Integral to the Imperium
>Being more powerful than the guys with Titan legions.

Come on dude.

>>43956067
Unique aesthetic? You mean nun's habits as ornately detailed power armour and the most distinctive weapon of the setting?

Mmmkay :^^:^)):)

>>43956082
How to use new IG rules?

>>43956100
They actually are. There's more of them than there are Space Marines. No, they don't hop on Explorator ships and loot planets, but somebody has to deal with it when the Arbites can't.

>>43956046
>They have a very unique aesthetic
>Ecclesiarchy, which is just as big and powerful as the Admech.
>>>>

>>43956082
It's far better than the arguing we've had so far. Do you want the Tau arguing?

>>43956128
I thought arbites were cops?

>>43956128
>but somebody has to deal with it when the Arbites can't.
The PDF, followed by the Guard?

>>43956162

Arbites are the FBI: Cops are local law enforcement with a couple Arbite overseers per planet at most.

>>43956138
If the Ecclesiarchy wasn't as big and powerful as the Admech, the cogboys would have taken over everyone's shit long ago.

I can't argue objectively about aesthetics, but how many other battle-nuns in various settings are you aware of?

>>43956162
They basically are. SoB get called in when psykers/heretics show up.

>>43956180
On those non-PDF-holding Shrine Worlds, right-o.

>>43956128
>when the arbites can't.

So like, the actual military?

>>43956212
Like a domestic military who is specifically prepared to face domestic threats, like mutants, rogue psykers, and heretics.

Just because they don't go crusading all that often doesn't mean they aren't a massive military force.

>>43956082
peanut butter > jelly

>>43956209

Ecclesiarchs have similar political power, but nowhere near the real power.

Admech can threaten to cease production. What's a pissed off priest going to do? Withold sermons?

>>43956082
>X is shitting up the board again
You can substitute anything you like in for X, somebody will whine about it.

>>43956261
This. The Peanut Butter codex was far better and the jellyfags will have to get over it.

>>43956156
>>43956156
I prefer the arguments over the ITC ruling to
>Sisters aren't relevant and they don't sell they should just be squatted
>ACKSHULLY they are more relevant than Marines because there are more of them
>Muh popularity
>Muh Ecclesiarchy

>>43956282
Tell that to Goge Vandire.

>>43956296
Then you can leave for Dakkadakka.

>>43956209
Dude the Ecclesiarcy will never be as powerful as the admech.

If the Ecclesiarcy disappeared in the morning the Imperium would be rocked but could pull through.

If the admech disappeared? Poof, no more Imperium.

Plus ever since the age of apostasy the Ecclesiarcy has been fucking WATCHED like a hawk, like the assassins, to make sure similar bullshit doesn't happen again.

They are rich and generally serve their own interests.

Compare that with the admech, who pretty much have unparalleled military might within the imperium, and all the nastiest weapons. And at any moment could withdraw their support and let the imperium crumble. If the Ecclesiarcy did that... ah jaysus, no more mass. Well a bit more than that but you know what I mean.

It's not really comparable.

>>43956294
I will fight you in the street.

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>>43956296
Maybe we need a new subject. What's Eldar for fruitcake? At first it was a joke for me to remember the color scheme for, but it's staying to me.

How many boyz is too many?

>>43956391
That's a dangerous line of thinking, looking for limits.

Might find yourself krumped.

>>43956209
The Ecclesiarchy cannot compare, at all, period. Its a religious group. If they didn't have it, they could still use the Imperial Truth or the Machine Cult or anything else. It doesn't provide any irreplaceable services.

>>43956340
They'd lose their ideology. The Ecclesiarchy IS the Imperium.

They don't build Titans. The Admech thinks the way to pacify a population is to turn them into servitors.

Both are equally powerful, just in different ways. If they weren't, there would be a massive civil war, and everything would be fucked. Fortunately, both sides are too self-serving to ever let that happen.

>>43956369
Anon, the facts don't lie. Don't be too salty or you'll ruin that jelly. I don't hate jelly, but I like peanut butter.

>>43956391
are you outnumbering daemons/nids or are they out numbering you?

>>43956340

I'd describe it as more than 'Rocked'. You are talking about a religious fundamentalist society where the Ecclessiarchy is the center of culture, society and about the only thing most planets have in common.

The Ecclessiarchy is as big as the Admech but in a very different way. Their power is political and social, not as much physical.

>>43956424
The Ecclesiarcy is not as powerful as the admech. That's a hard fact. Pretty much no one is.

I won't lie and say there wouldn't be a civil war as you describe if the Ecclesiarcy did that. But if the admech did... there wouldn't really be much to fight over for much longer. Because now nobody is building tanks and the like.

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>>43956414
>>43956433
Look, all i want is the maximum number of boyz, and that maximum number of boyz in the maximum number of trukkz without being tabled by turn two.

I gotta go FAST EN MASSE

But bikes just aint my style.

>>43956383
Fuck knows. Probably something unpronounceable though. Just run the word through translators to the various types of Gaelic and see what comes up, that's been my base when I've needed to name my Eldar fags for narratives and such.

>>43956472

If either vanished/left, the Imperium is dead. It's just a matter of how it dies.

Fortunately, neither is stupid enough (Or at least, kick the crap out of the really stupid elements) to want that.

>>43956508
Císte torthaí. That's what I got.

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>>43956430
Typical peanutfag. Shitting up threads.

How does it feel having shit taste?

Pic related. It's what I'm going to do to you.

>>43956588
You're going to hug me?

Why exactly is the Ecclessiarchy so important? It's not like they run the Imperium, that's done by the Administratum. They don't produce the weapons of the Imperium, the AdMech do that. They're not humanity's bulwark against it's enemies, that's the Guard, and the Space Marines. They don't protect humanity from itself, that's the Inquisition. So why are they important?

>>43956577
Cist torth'hai

There.

>>43956622
Thank you. Now to write history for this Craftworld.

>>43956615
Gonna hug the nonsense out of your peanut butter loving head.

>>43956621
They keep mankind united.

>>43956614
Nice pasta bayb.

>>43956662
Isn't that more the Imperial Creed than the Ecclessiarchy?

>>43956621

First of all, they are a shield. Without a religion man falls to chaos.

Secondly, they are the "why we fight" of the Imperium.

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>>43956645
I'm ready, Anon. You might fail but hey who knows. I might need that hug.

>>43956515
Pretty sure the Ecclesiarcy got too big for its boots before and basically said "fuck the Imperium, I'm doing my own thing. I'm in charge now. Fuck you all."

And not only did the imperium hold itself together, it managed to reform the faith and kick the shit out of the guy in charge and impose a bunch of safeguards to stop it happening again.

I think they could handle it leaving.

>>43956678
Who do you think spreads the creed and makes sure everyone believes in it? It sure as fuck isnt the clerks of the administratum or the magi, or the guard or marines.

>>43956621

The are the social and political side of the Imperium.

Who watches over the noble families who rule planets and guides them? The Sisters Famulous.
Who runs a huge part of the civilian and guard medical infrastructure? The Sisters Hospitaler
Who brings planets INTO the imperium and sanitizes culture so they all work together? The Sisters Dialogus.

The Ecclessiarchy gives unity and purpose to the common man and to the Guard. They give the Bulwark of Humanity the courage and faith it needs to stand up against the inhuman monsters.

In addition to this they keep watch for cults and warping of the imperial faith in ways that would harm the Imperium.

You remove the Ecclessiarchy and the Imperium loses it's heart and soul.

>>43956715

You mean the war that was stopped by a Member of the Ecclessiarchy? As without Thor, that never would have happened.

>>43956715

That was really more of an Ecclessiarchy Civil War. Vandire vs Thor.

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>>43956745
>You remove the Ecclessiarchy and the Imperium loses it's heart and soul.
Anon, those things need fixing.

>TFW you like the Proteus-pattern Land Raider more than the Phobos, but it's expensive as fuck from recasters and FW

>>43956424
>The Ecclesiarchy IS the Imperium.

And before it, the Imperial Truth was the Imperium. Its an important part, but nowhere near the most important part -- indeed, its probably the only wholly interchangeable part about the Imperium, the one part that, if removed, something else would replace it just fine.

>both are equally powerful

Well no, if they were equally powerful, the Ecclesiarchy would have destroyed the Imperium and itself by now, in all likelihood. Keeping it weak is the only way to keep them from going full traitor, and the SoB are appointed to prevent this.

>>43956913

>Well no, if they were equally powerful, the Ecclesiarchy would have destroyed the Imperium and itself by now, in all likelihood.

What?

>>43956902
That is because it's FUCKING HUGE.

The pictures do not clearly indicate this, but it really is.

>>43956913
Let's do a thought experiment. Take all the Christians on earth. Every single one.

Now turn them all into Muslims, since Christianity and Islam are basically the same thing and completely interchangeable.

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Haven't played 40k in almost three years and looking at getting a Betrayal at Calth set. What army makes the most use out of 30 marine bodies? Imperial Fists? Black Templar?

>>43956692
>Without a religion man falls to chaos.

The Imperial Truth (aka "nada") worked just fine, and generally better.

>why we fight

Humans don't need to be told by a guy in a funny hat to hate outsiders and to obey out of fear, nationalism, patriotism, etc. Every element of them other than the SP would be smoothly replaced by other people's function.

You can't even call it a religious thing because religion certainly doesn't need spiritual leaders and institutions to function, and instead provides a flawless attack point by Chaos, shapechangers, and genestealers, not to mention heretics -- and this happens all the fucking time. Vraks, Vandire, the Abyssal Crusades, etc. etc.

>>43956983

That's not even really a valid allegory. As our world is very secular these days. 40k...isn't.

It would be more like having every single faithful person and every member of the catholic church vanish during the middle ages.

Or the entire government of North Korea.

>>43957028
Honestly, they're not super 30K-ey, so you could run them with whichever chapter caught your fancy. If you want suggestions, Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Iron Hands have a lot of the old shit. Raven Guard too, but it's all like 90% Corvus-pattern.

>>43957064
>Our world is very secular these days
Have you ever been outside of large American cities, anon?

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>>43956983
Holy crap, you're right,

>>43956716

>Who do you think spreads the creed and makes sure everyone believes in it?

Anyone can do that just fine. There's not a lot of meat to it.

>>43957052

Better? Even the Age of Apostasy doesn't compare to the clusterfuck that was the fall of half of the Primarchs to Chaos, the murder of the Emperor and the plunging of the imperium into a dark age it never recovered from.

>>43957090
I fucked up. It's the Spartan I was talking about.

Sorry.

>>43957086
We are more secular now than in most periods in history, ie. very secular. More so in terms of organization. As opposed to a culture in part run by a literal ecclesiarchy.

>>43957028

Iron Hands by virtue of being harder to remove off objectives or Imperial (Crimson) Fists for Bolter buffs. Raptors are also an option if you like headshots.

>>43957141
>well compared to a religious orthodoxy, we're secular

Of course, but the world is not quite as aetheistically enlightened as you may think, fedoranon.

>>43956959
>What?

The Imperium is dependent on a group of mutant heretics and cyborg heretics for basic survival. The Ecclesiarchy hasn't done shit since they're a speck in comparison, but its very likely that if they thought the Admech could be forced to toe the line, they would.

>>43956983
>Take all the Christians

100% flawed premise. Lets back up. Take all the Christians, remove their religious leaders. Oh shit, Christianity's just fine and still there. You would of course lose a lot of people trying to abuse religion for their own purposes (for awhile, anyway).

Remember, the Ecclesiarchy is not the Imperial Creed, anymore than the Catholic Church is Christianity.

>>43957101
A problem solved wholly by secular means, the compartmentalization of forces. The Imperial Truth certainly is not integrally linked to Primarch-based command.

>>43957172
I'm not an atheist, nor is a society of atheists the same thing as a secular society.

>>43957201
>shoot the pope in the head, Catholics won't give a shit
Ignoring the quiet internal war that is tearing Catholicism apart over Pope Francis's leadership, do you honestly believe this?

The Imperial Creed is atheistic and enlightened. The Ecclesiarchy gives mankind something to believe in when enlightenment failed.

>>43957201

If the Ecclessiarchy left, they'd take the faithful with them and 'The faithful' makes up 99% of the Imperium.

It took another member of the Eccessiarchy to actually get people going against Vandire.

>>43957172
>everyone I don't like is fedorian
>I don't know the difference between secular and atheist

Give you a hint, Saddam Hussein, a guy who continuously babbled about Allah, was still a "secular leader" and the Baathist party is still secular despite being almost entirely comprised of muslims with WBC+ tier beliefs.

>>43957232

No but it was directly linked to why the Horus Heresy happened. The lie that there was no such thing as gods and the denial of chaos when it was provably wrong.

The Imperial Creed is honestly more truthful than the Imperial Truth was.

>>43957260
>Ignoring the quiet internal war that is tearing Catholicism apart over Pope Francis's leadership
u wot m8? First I've heard of this, and I'm Catholic.

>>43957201
>remove their religious leaders
For this comparison it would be removing every single priest, having no church to go to would drop active participation in religious activity. You can't have a mission trip without an orginization, nor can you have constant purging without the Ecclesiarchy.

>>43957304
Theres always a political struggle within the higher ups of the church, specially now that the pope is perhaps more radical than his predecessors.

>>43957272
>dictatorial rule under a god-fearing dictator is still secular, guys

See, it's not. People were being executed for not being Muslim.

>>43957304
American? It's quieter over there.
The European Catholic Church is not in a very nice place at the moment.

>>43957304
Some people don't like him because he isn't nearly as hardliner as his predecessor, that's it.

>>43957260
>>shoot the pope in the head, Catholics won't give a shit

Something I didn't say at all. Removal of all religious leaders wouldn't harm Christianity at all, or "damage people's faith" or any such nonsense. It would probably blur a lot of the distinction between Protestants and Catholics etc., cause some cults to implode, and so forth. Anyone can be a spiritual leader. Joe Everyman can be a spiritual leader.

Hell, you could go so far as to imagine a parallel universe where the Bible said that you shouldn't pray publicly as the hypocrites do, but instead only do so in private places, and nothing would stop Christianity from thriving as well.

>>43957371
>The European Catholic Church is not in a very nice place at the moment.
Explain. Is there gonna be another schism or something?

>>43957382
>Protestantism and Catholicism becoming one and the same

That would take an apocalypse.

>>43957382
> parallel universe where the Bible said that you shouldn't pray publicly as the hypocrites do, but instead only do so in private places, and nothing would stop Christianity from thriving as well.
>things will propagate without advertisement

>>43957382
>It would probably blur a lot of the distinction between Protestants and Catholics etc
In what universe?

>>43957303
>The lie that there was no such thing as gods and the denial of chaos when it was provably wrong.

By that logic, the Imperial Creed makes people just as vulnerable, because it has the EXACT same provisions regarding Chaos and daemons, ie. that they're purely metaphorical.

>The Imperial Creed is honestly more truthful than the Imperial Truth was.

Much less so. Both leave people in the dark about the threat that Chaos etc. poses, but the Imperial Creed adds in bits about the Emperor being a God.

A much more solid argument would be that the Imperial Creed is necessary, but you don't need spiritual leaders to maintain doctrinal purity.

>>43957415
Probably not an overt one. But the church leaders are at each others' throats over Francis' liberalism. Wikipedia "sedevacantism".

>>43956046
I couldn't give the slightest fuck about SoB fluff, and their aesthetic is literally "space marines but with tits and less interesting"

>>43957371
>See, it's not.

Like I said, you don't know what the word secular means. "Secular" and "atheistic" are two different concepts. You can be a religious fanatic, but still a secular ruler or obey a secular power. You could presumably be an atheist but still be a saint.

>>43956101
>most distinctive weapon of the setting
>bolters
>same weapon used by SM
>weapon that is a holy relic and part of the SM uniform
>distinctive to SoB

>>/out/

>>43957482
>Francis' liberalism
Since when has he been liberal? All I see are covers of magazines and blog articles that twist his words around.

>>43957381
He also is very, very aggressive with abusing his religious position for political influence, and that turns a lot of people off.

>>43957341
You don't need a clumsy, effortlessly corruptible hierarchy to build churches, not sure why it can't be a local thing with volunteers etc.

>>43957420
>misquoting people is fun

>>43957454
Priests disintegrating would blur the distinctions between Catholic and Protestant. Nobody said it'd erase the distinctions.

>>43957557
>abusing his religious position for political influence
literal job description of the pope sense it's conception friendo. He is using his podium as a podium. (and yes this is pissing people off, no one is disagreeing on that)

>>43957588

Because it's about the only thing most planets have in common in the Imperium. Without an interplanetary group to watch over it, it's easily corrupted by chaos and isn't the strong glue to hold the imperium together that it would be otherwise.

>>43957588
>removes all the active participants in leading religion
>but new ones will magically replace them on a local level

>>43957624
Just because Popes are often corrupt doesn't mean people like it when this Pope is more corrupt than usual.

>>43957658
Even if they believed on a local level that wouldn't serve the necessity of unity.

>>43957554
He's not "liberal". He's simply less conservative than previous Popes, especially Benedict XVI.

>>43957658
Nobody said to remove the active participants.

>>43957670
>using his position as a figurehead to shill for his beliefs now equals corruption.

>>43957628
Having one guy who can be possessed/genestealer'd/whatever seems like a way weaker fracture point than forcing the enemy to corrupt the leader of every last local church, but that's just me.

>>43957704
>The power of the Holy See is one man's to use

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>everyone discussing the Ecclessiarchy
>no Tauhate in sight

Good job everybody.

>>43957686
>He's simply less conservative than previous Popes
How?

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Redeemers are good for destroying blobs yes?

>>43957726

I'm not sure you'd be able to Genestealer a single guy on Terra who has an entire organization dedicated to watching over the Ecclessiarchy for corruption rather than just letting people do whatever.

>>43957764
As long as they don't bring mass quantities of meltaguns.

New to 40k want a army that is at least not complete garbage but I'm also not gonna run into that same army over and over. Looking at Nids, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard or Tau.

>>43957696
That is what the Ecclesiarcy is though, you can't be an active organizational force for the religion without being part of it. had you said 'remove only the highest ranking Eclesiarchs' or some such limiting statement I would be in full agreement, but 'the Ecclesiarchy' is all of the officials and representatives, who are the active participants.

>>43957766
No, but when a whole planet or system is in charge of one Ecclesiarch ultimately, a genestealer biting that one guy, or him seeing a daemon once, is a good way for the whole system to be corrupted.

I mean, you have Arbiters, and you can already make religion that questions the authority of the Imperium or doesn't endorse it enough illegal.

>>43957802
Almost everyone in the Imperium is a totally dedicated fanatic, its hard for me to see such people as not "active participants." Almost every guardsman, for example, is essentially a zealot. Were the Ecclesiarchy to disappear tomorrow, they'd just decide on new religious leaders and move on, most likely.

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>>43957786
Bring a metal box for backup.

>>43957741
It's difficult to pinpoint without resorting to media sources that are universally going "Pope Says It's Okay To Be Gay!". But he gets involved in things that, as Pope, he really shouldn't be involved with. Politics are not a good medium for the Church.

>>43957898
Now you're getting it.
I still prefer AC sweeps from Dreadnoughts, though. Have you gotten Blessing of the Machine Spirit on Martellus yet?

>>43957859
dedicated belief is not the same as an active participant in the organization of a religion.
>they'd just decide on new religious leaders and move on, most likely
seeing as there would be no structure and plenty of power on the line this would not be a simple replacement, especially considering the communication between the Imperium at large is all but non-existent.

>>43957739
seriously though, fuck tau.

>>43957859

Mind you, think about how that goes if we go back to the original thing of the Ecclessiarchy deciding to LEAVE the imperium.

>>43954806
That and SoB models are the most expensive currently.

It's just not economically feasible to collect a Sisters Army for most people.

Then the Quality of those models is poor as well.

Reason that sisters are unplayed is that their models are expensive shit and their rules are outdated.

>>43957967

That and you literally can't find them in stores.

New players basically won't know they exist unless they get into the system via outside media rather than 'Ooh, this looks fun' in a game store.

>>43957935
Yes actually.

>>43957967
Didn't they get a digital codex? For 7th?

>>43958019
Get the LRC up close to some nasties and cast it.

It's pretty funny.

>>43958284
What is the "best" land raider variant? Or at least the best at dakka or the best at the options for weapon options? Is there a land raider that can use Volkite guns yet?

>>43958341
>The best Land Raider
Well, that's a good question, and there's a lot of skub about it, but I would personally say the Prometheus. It fulfills the role of transport just fine, it carries as much firepower as a heavy bolter Devastator squad (and is twin-linked), and fucking with reserve rolls and -1 to cover saves is just icing.

The Crusader is the popular option, because of its increased transport capacity. It puts out a rather impressive number of shots, and it will kill some stuff, but honestly I want something that massive to do more for my army than pack Termies.

I believe the Achilles can take Volkite sponsons.

>>43958422
Thank you, Anon. Now I have some favorites for metal boxes.

>>43958341
The Spartan. Ha ha.
Anyway, the Crusader is well regarded, knowing what it does (transport Terminators and mulch light infantry) and doing it pretty well. The Prometheus is also nice for similar reasons, but it trades capacity for reserve tricks. The Achilles is less a transport than a stupid durable Thunderfire cannon with room for infantry, so it can be pretty solid, albeit for an entirely different purpose. The Achilles-Alpha does, in fact, have volkite sponsons, but is also 30k only. And there's that Excelsior thing if you have the rules, which is a an useful command vehicle that happens to be a Land Raider.

>>43957794
Nids are shit tier.

Dark Eldar are low tier.

Imperial Guard are mid tier.

Tau are high tier.

>>43958480
Why are metal boxes so appealing?

>>43958527
hard edges

>>43958518
are you putting 'Nids below DE? if so... dafuq?

>>43958556
Loyalists have better metal boxes which means it pays to be loyal right?

Would it be reasonable to have a non-lethal chapter specialized in Urban pacification/riot-quelling?

>>43958569
Outside of flyrants, nids are a joke.

I even know a guy who thinks Chaos Space Marines codex is good and everyone overblows how bad it is, and even he calls the nid codex a piece of shit.

I repeat, HE THINKS CSM ARE GOOD RIGHT NOW.

They are just kind of awful. It's not even funny how bad they are. To say they need an update is selling it short.

You can still win games with DE. They have good units and solid strategies. They can't handle top tier codexes at all nearly, but against reasonable lists they will do fine.

>>43958614
One that uses nonlethal measures against humans whenever they can? Sure. Against xenos? That's getting a little weird. Against heretics? Nope, when in doubt bolter out and all that.

>>43958614
Not really. If you riot, you are generally seen as a heretic or at best a disruptive influence. Either way you are better off dead, nobody is going to go out of their way to pacify you.

That said, a chapter like Raven Guard generally focus on decapitation strikes and would seek to eliminate leadership instead of murdering the populace. If the ring leader was killed and it stops the riots then... ok they would still probably BLAM you but hey.

>>43958614
Not really. Marines can do lot of things, but I don't think non-lethally quelling a riot is one of them. But hey, it's your models, do whatever.

>>43958614
>Urban pacification/riot-quelling?
they have arbites for that

arbites are quite good at that

>>43958614
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Reasonable_Marines

>>43952382
amazing models, i allow them but despise imperial knights, titans, etc. they are quite well balanced. Fuck yes its far too expensive

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Do you needs other models controlling the other two Gunrigs in a Tidewall Gunfort, if you decided to do a Coordinated Strike?

>>43958737
Reasonable Marines are some of the worst shit I've seen come out of /tg/, and that includes Angry Marines.

>>43958737
people who even mention the reasonable marines should have their fingernails pulled out

>>43958775
Nah reasonable marines were fine as a joke... and nothing more.

It's when people tried to make a serious chapter out of them things turned to shit.

>>43958630
Not staying up to argue the point, but there are plenty of ways to make stronger 'Nid lists than DE. Lictors can still fuck up your day, and you can't really just write off flyrants.

>>43958796
I didn't. That's why I said "except flyrants."

>>43958786
Raptors?

>>43958813
And I'm saying that that isn't valid logic for defending a ranking of the strength of armies.

>>43958816
They are reasonable in tactics, but in personality they are a very zealous chapter. They will not negotiate with xenos or non loyal humans at all.

>>43958846
Dude, what the fuck ever.

The codex is utter shit. Flyrants are good. Flyrants near single handedly keep them relevant.

Happy?

>>43957371
>See, it's not. People were being executed for not being Muslim.

Um, no. There were quite a few Christians in Saddam's inner circle. The Main ideology of the Baath party was Arab nationalism, and one of its primary intellectual founders Michel Aflaq, a Syrian Christian.

Shia Muslims were persecuted, but this was more about an ethnic political conflict than actual religious disagreement.

>>43958775
Exactly. The point is that trying to have a non-lethal space marine chapter is nonsensical and stupid.

>>43958737
That may be the gayest shit I've ever read.

>>43958987
The writefaggotry is pretty hilarious.

>>43958893
Step one: Don't play against faggots
Step two: Bring actual nid list, not that 5 flying bullshit
Step three: Adhear to rule one
Step four: Have fun

Go fuck yourself, the only thing making nids shit is top tier min maxing, WAAC players and the fact nids don't have their own formation collection, just a few gimmic ones.

You can play sisters and win
You can play DE and win
You can play fucking orks and win

And none of it requires doing anything but playing a balanced army against someone who isn't a faggot.

WAAC players please burn your arimes. Then buy more.

>>43959070
Thank you for that.

Feel better?

>>43959070
A pretty large portion of them being bad is the fact that they are like... really really truly awful.

I agree that playing against reasonable lists is a thing and you will be able to win games but... Christ almighty Crudace did a fucking number on them.

Do you think there is any hope for a Rogue Trader 2nd Edition, or even Deathwatch after it?

Does anyone have the new 40k path to glory?

>>43959206
The what?

>>43959215
On black library for the advent calendar they put up two new Path to Glory rulesets, one for AoS and one for 40k.

Basically mordheim for chaos, you make a chaos champion, hire mooks, fight skirmish games, mutate, randomly lose limbs.

It's good stuff, $5 a pdf (great price) but I'm worried because they're listing 11 other supplements (not out yet) so I'm not sure how complete the first pdfs are

>>43959215
it's the new advent calendar for december, it's suppose to be a series of small supplement... things for chaos

>>43959269
Cool I'll buy it right now one sec.

>>43959278
I just asked some dudes and they confirmed that both the AoS and 40k are complete, they can run an entire campaign!

The other 11 pdfs are likely scenarios, possibly some niche rules?

>>43957794
Just gonna let you know now, you're going to be running into Tau over and over again.

My advice for new players wanting something not often seen is to look around at the lesser-represented Space Marine chapters. Yeah it's Spess Mahrens, but you'd be surprised how much a couple army-wide special rules completely change how you play.

Plus, SMs are an awesome new person army for all kinds of reasons.

>>43959309
not going to lie, for the first time ever I'm painting space marines, they're super fun

>>43959361
also, tanks

>>43958952
As opposed to what, in the 40K universe, that isn't stupid?

Besides, the recent take on Raptors is pretty much canon Reasonable Marines. Camo-painted armor, everyone's trained to snipe with their bolter, lots of shooty and not so much with the chainswords.

>>43959176
Well if you look at the nid codex release, it was to correct the issue with the outstanding legal battle over the spore pods. They just didn't make a proper codex release.

The new MCs should be able to move 12
Other updates and fixes should be in place
When you look at the nid book, it's not hard to un-fuck it. Their glaring issue is can't get into melee vs heavy vehicles, mostly due to grav guns. This will likely be addressed when the next edition grav gun nerf comes to town.

>>43957794
You listed 3 shooty armies and one melee one. Do you understand how the game is played? If not look into it and then make your army choice after reading about their backgrounds. No army is complete garbage on its own. Play what you want because by the time you get your models together, you should have an update. Well, maybe not on DE.

>>43959375
Reasonable=/= non lethal

Raptors will still blow your face off of they get a whiff of dissent.

Why is Dante a Lord of War? Shouldn't he be an HQ?

>>43959409
Why is Seth a LOW?

So you think we'll get deathwatch rules with the new box set rumored to come out next year? I'd love to add a squad to my army for thematic purposes

>>43959616
I fucking hope so. I have been wishing for this since forever.

So, Astorath+10-man Death Company w/ jump packs. Canned rape? Or horrible deathstar?

>>43959659
Bump it up to fifteen DC and we got a deal.

Also, it's a points sink.

>>43959409
The idea of making Chapter Masters and their ilk into LoW isn't a terrible idea, but they need army-wide buffs to compensate.

>>43959659
Dont know why you wouldnt spring for dante, death company get so many attacks they really dont need to reroll to wound and astoraths weapon is so bad

>>43959659
budget DC with a regular chaplain are better

remove special character

>>43959278
is it upped?

>>43958874
Reasonable Marines are only actually reasonable to people unfamiliar or only new to the 40k setting. It gives them too much knowledge from what should be omniscient narration and crowbars a lot of modern day values into a setting meant to be anything but reasonable.
I found the first Reasonable marines content all those years back to be cool shit. Now i'm just weary of it.

>>43960070
Indeed, bump.

>>43960343
in the mega? what folder?

>>43960358
I was agreeing not saying it was upped.

>>43952523
>FW Eldar
Sure Warp Hunters, Nightwings, and Hornets are pretty beefy, but what's so unbalanced about Shadow Spectres, Phoenix Bomber, or the Wraithseer?

>>43955801
Just have to mash it in. Shit sucks.
I have a couple Falcons where I just stuck a magnet on the side of the mounting piece and stick an upside-down Wave Serpent cannon there instead for the sake of sturdiness.

Okey /tg/ here is a rule discussion that has been running in my gaming group as of late and it looks like it won't end anytime soon, as thus i'm drawing upon your infinite wisdom and ability to spot things which we might have missed.

Let us start with the rules in question which are confudling us.

In the core book of wh40k 7th edition it says the following about modifying dice rolls:

Sometimes you may have to modify the number rolled on the dice (or the "roll"). This is noted as d6 plus or minus a number, such as d6+1. Roll the dice and add or substract the number given to or from the roll (as appropriate) to get the final result. For example D6+2 means roll a dice and add to 2 to the number on the dice for a total between 3 to 8.
Followed by rules for rolling more than 1 dice.

When reading the rules for Seize the Initiative it says:
If the player who is due to go second wishes to Seize the Initiative, he can roll a d6 before the beginning of the first game turn. On a roll of 6 he successfully seizes the initiative and goes first.

Does this mean that Any modifier to Seize the Initiative only ever have the effect of making it a 16% chance of success or worse??

>>43960770
Also this applies to Deny the Witch Blessings as it also doesn't say "6+" like it does on witchfires but say "result of 6". Is there anywhere in the books where you can find clarification on this?

>>43960770
What modifier in specific are you asking about? AFAIK, anything that changes a Seize does it by stating a specific new value (i.e., 4+) rather than adding or subtracting.

>>43960781
Blessings can only ever be denied on a natural 6 as the bonuses from adamantium will, being a psyker yourself, etc. do not apply. Those bonuses only matter when that unit is the target of the psychic power.

>>43957739
Sssh, don't remind them!

>>43958518
Tau's tier has been mitigated somewhat by the recent ITC ruling, which was actually rigged slightly by a resident fa/tg/uy.

So well done him.

>>43958614
Only if you fluff them as 19th century London bobbies IN SPAAAAAAAACE

>'allo 'allo 'allo, what's all this then?
>Looks like some 'eresy to me Frank
>Looks 't same 't me, Bill
>You're fuckin' nicked me ol' beauty!

>>43955715
Havent played since the new eldar codex.

>>43959892
this is spot on, i think so far only calgar fits this though