Are divinely-ordained kings the best form of government? Even

>>43900031
If gods were real then yeah.

>>43900083

That depends on the god though. If the god is benevolent to all beings then maybe it could work; if it's benevolent to just its followers and has a "smite the non-believers" stance then religious freedom might go down the drain; meanwhile, if the god is an asshole then you might have problems.

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No form of government is a good government if it lacks princesses and princes who can pretend to be princesses.

>>43900031
Depends on the goal you seek from government.

>>43900172

Actually, that would be an interesting custom for a royal family to adopt: have as many kids as possible, and raise them all to be as feminine as possible. Then, when they're all of age, invite kings and princes from other kingdoms to court them, but inform them that if they end up marrying a feminine prince, then their land and wealth is forfeit (i.e. they'd be marrying into the feminine prince's family rather than the other way round). Meanwhile, if they marry an actual princess, then they get half of the princess' kingdom's wealth and land as a dowry.

The trick there is that there are very few, if any, girls born to that particular royal family. This is kept a very highly guarded secret.

>>43900342
I think you stumbled into the "my fetish overrode my ability to think" realm. There are so many logical problems with that, that it could only work in a comedy of the absurd.

>>43900473
don't acknowledge them, anon. Ignore them and they'll go away.

>>43900031
>Are divinely-ordained kings the best form of government?
Chinese take on Mandate of Heaven would suggest it's rather flawed system

>>43900473

Yeah there might be a few issues, the biggest one that popped up at me was "why would any prince/king bother if they knew what was at stake?" which is why I threw in the huge dowry thing. It only takes a couple of misses before that dowry becomes large enough to tempt a number of potential suitors. Of course there's also the other issue of a good chunk of the princes probably being heterosexual, but I don't really have an answer for that one.

>>43900136
If the god is Pelor, Lathander, Heironeous, or any of those other fairly generic "non-race based good guy gods", I think it would work out.

Even St. Cuthbert might work, even though by canon he is an asshole god. Though, why a saint is a god is a mystery.

>>43900172
Silly Dragon, stop trying to impose your magical realm on our social contracts.

>>43900660
Isn't Pelor a bad guy?

>>43900031
Why not just skip the middle-man and have the kingdom directly ruled by a god?

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>>43901343

>>43901343
He has better things to do, like kill demons and evil gods also they can't usually have that direct of an effect on the mortal realm.

>>43901343
there are neutron golems in place to prevent that.

What happens if the gods say "No one in this kingdom is suited to be king. Revert to anarchy for a generation or two then ask us again."?

>>43901383
needs edit with the letter saing "U R faggit"

>>43900031
Fortunately, my god is the god of Democracy, Republics, Freedom, and Industry. His name is Mureika, and his holy symbol is the Turkey. His holy lands are ruled as a constitutional elected monarchy where once every five years the Landowners Comittee (think Congress) gets together and constructs a list of candidates, and the people vote on those candidates, with the victor being precisely tallied and ratified by celestial agents of the god himself. The new King will then rule, within the boundaries of the law, for five years until re-election when he will run against the other candidates. He can run for a total of four times, up to 20 years as King, before he must retire. Many members of the Landowners Comittee (who have terms of 2 years with a maximum of 5 Terms) are former Kings themselves.

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>>43901667
Anon Delivers!

>>43900031
you dont want a divinely ordained king a king implies that when he dies his heir gets the throne you need to have the god declare a new ruller when the old one dies

>>43900574
>Of course there's also the other issue of a good chunk of the princes probably being heterosexual, but I don't really have an answer for that one.
invite women to the courting to they wont know if there with a straight man or a homosexual women

>>43901113
only if you listen to insane theories

>>43901649
i suppose they will encourage people to immigrate to the country until a suitable leader shows up

>>43900342
Shotgun approach: send a number of princes equal to the number of princesses. Go big or go home.

>>43900031
Best of both worlds? Hold an election to choose one of the gods, then have that god choose the king.

>>43900031
NO GODS.
NO KINGS.
ONLY MAN.

A non-divine ordained benevolent dictator.

If a King is chosen by a God to rule, then it has the potential to ostracize other gods/faiths/followers.

If the benevolent dictator is not chosen by any one god, the nation can freely worship any number of gods without issue, and gain the favor or at least acceptance of all gods rather than the direct support of just one god.

>>43900031
Depends on how the god chooses the man. Is it entirely a family dynasty thing and the god is known to be real but they don't actually interfere with the family? Then no, that's bad. A fucked-up king can still be a fucked-up king.

But if the god actually chooses each king when his predecessor dies, then I see no problem if the kingdom in question accepts this decision--or, more likely, if the kingdom in question is strong enough to enforce its rule.

This is assuming we're talking about an actual good god and not some petty little shit who happens to be too powerful for anyone else to tell him no.

>>43900660
>Pelor
>the Burning Hate
>in any way good-aligned.
Are you high, anon?

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>>43900031
>Democracy is the best form of government.

Stay beta, heretics.

"Democracy is the worst system of government, apart from all the others." -Winston Churchill.

Personally I'd run a benevolent tyranny in preparation for an AI-managed nation program.

Fuck "people," let the machines work it out.

>>43904877
That is a bowler.

>>43900031
A divinely ordained democracy would be pretty fun to see, with each god backing a political party and the believers voting on whichever party has their patron god's favour.

>>43900172
epic /tg/ meme /b/ro

>>43901863
/int/ meme

>>43903401
Initially, I thought this was a great idea, until I realized that we would just be making good groups oppose each other, and it would eventually develop where the matters of debate would become so trivial and distracted (because they would agree on the main points) that politics would eventually wind up revolving around those trivial issues, while the real problems would eventually end up being ignored.

If Pelor and Heironeous were opposed parties, we'd end up with debates on whether sunshine or rain was more important, with either candidate promising more of one or the other. Umbrella salesmen would rally for rain, beach owners would lobby for sun, and hat salesmen would work both sides up into a fervor.

>>43900031
I will give you an answer under one condition:

Post this exact same thread on /pol/

>>43900031
>Kings
>Divine
>Laughing_Saxons.tapestry

Not enough Legend of Galactic Heroes in this thread.

>>43901113
>>43904178
I never understood this joke.

Why not both?

Governors are democratic elected, but the only candidates are the respective Popes of each major Deity in the Realm.

This way we have parties trying to gathering people for their cause.

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>>43900031
If there is but one God, are not all equal before Him?

If there are no gods, is it not our own burden to govern ourselves?

If there are multiple gods, each ruling according to their own whims and each fallible by their own admission, are they any better than earthly tyrants?

Liberté, égalité, fraternité ou la mort.

>>43908636

It's from a suggestion that Pelor might really be Zarus, the Evil god of Humanity Fuck Yeah.

>>43900031
Sure, just look at the Englisdh monachies!

>>43908636
People noticed that in an unreasonable amount of art, the Cleric of Pelor in 3e casts spells or uses effects that he could only fo if he were worshipping an evil aligned god.
Given how much of 3e's art and characters changed due to marketing, we havr no idea what the goal/intent was, but internet theories came to fill the void.

>>43900031
Depends on the setting's interpretation of good gods.

In the FR for instance this would mostly be a bad thing, especially because you would be relying on the churches to tell you what their god thinks.

>>43903401
>>43908733
Theo-Democracy?
Themocracy?
Demeocracy?

>>43910409
Vox populi est vox Dei

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>>43909427
Man, the French Revolution is like the only revolution which wanted to objectively improve the quality of life. Why did it go so shit? The only other one which went right I can think of is the American Revolution, but it appears they forgot about the "liberté, égalité, fraternité" part.

>>43912435
>Why did it go so shit?

Because the arseholes leading the revolution turned out to be worse than the arseholes they were rebelling against.

>>43912469
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the story of the world in a nutshell.

>>43912469
Standard for every violent revolution in history.

>>43912435
Because it was never about improving the quality of life. It was about rich bourgeoisie wanting to take away power from rich nobles. Regular folks were just pawns either way.

>>43903119
That would imply gay marriage though, which is a nonsensical prospect in a society with suitors and dowries and all that traditional marriage-as-a-familial-matter jazz.

All that stuff revolves around the prospect of generating heirs, both to continue your own family line and to bind the two families involved closer together by their common concern for their shared descendents. Unless there's magic to let two princes or two princesses create an heir together, such a union wouldn't be treated as a marriage in a society that does the whole traditional royal political marriage schtick involved here. Though it could be quite possible that a gay lover could hold a highly privileged position as a concubine, assuming the society in question doesn't have any hangups about homosexuality or concubinage.

>>43912952
Just like communists are trying to overthrown the capitalists?

>>43912435
Part of the reason the American Revolution "didn't go to shit" was that there wasn't a massive shift in local power. We cut ties with parliament, but the people in power before the war basically stayed in power. No power vacuum = less violent post-revolutionary power struggle.

I would say that a divinely ordained king would be best if and only if the god a) only has the best interests of his subjects in mind and doesn't have any agenda besides that and b) said god is willing to smack a bitch *when* the monarchy gets out of line (goes mad, becomes corrupt, etc) and place a new monarch in power.

Democracy is the best we have so far because without some grand incorruptible being to lead we need checks and balances to keep anyone from getting too drunk on power.

>>43910073
>>43908636
Not only how much evil Jozan got up to (a fair amount in the PHB), but there's supporting evidence in other books.
Complete Divine, I think it was, has a Pelorian holy order in it that is a secret inquisiton which revolves entirely around killing heretics and protecting the interests of the faith, including such powers for its PrC as a constant undetectable alignment.
I can't remember much of the other details out of hand.

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>>43912435
>Why did it go so shit?
I'd say the part where LITERALLY EVERYONE wanted a piece of France. That was the big problem, and why people see the American revolution as the "good" one.

The nobility of course became enemies of the state for its close ties to the monarchy (post-Varennes) and pretty much being outdated. The initial Revolution was rather neutral to the Church, but when the clergy started siding with the monarchy and against the Revolution (though not all: the Tennis Court Oath was initiated by a clergyman and some clergymen declared loyalty to the Revolution) they came under fire as well starting an initial bout of radical atheism. And then there were the Royalists, the Federalists, the Separatists, and others of people who wanted to tear France apart.

Robespierre, as controversial as he was, was a neccessity. Far from being a corruption of the Revolution, he embodied it in its purest form: centralization, universal suffrage an inflexible justice were his watchwords. This is also how he defined the Terror: swift and inflexible justice to ensure the unity of the social contract, to ensure all did their part in a democratic republic. He embodied more than anything Jefferson's "the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants". As the situation in France improved, its enemies eventually subjugated in Amiens and Consul Napoleon rose to power, the Revolution relaxed: the Republic was a fact, but some émigrés were invited back and the Church was accepted once more (albeit stripped of temporal power).

Oh, and then there's also a matter of perspective, the idea that the Americans did not fight their own but a foreign enemy. Of course this is not entirely true, as most "British" in America were actually American Royalists. The actual British were kept out by a French naval blockade.

>>43914085
This too.

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>>43900342
>>43900574

>>43900031
No, they are not.
MACHINE GODS are the best form of government.