Exalted General

Hey, it's Demigod!

>>43874177
Demiwhat now?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n8BkGHMGC_CTKwoDVNVcesKgTTf6lTO4MXBY6HUpVIE/edit?usp=sharing

Reposting from last thread, still looking to hear thoughts and advice on my brawl charms. Thanks in advance.

Soul-Sketching Focus
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: <Charm>, Unscarred Grandeur Suggestion

The world is no dream-wisp muse waiting meekly for expression; it is an endless storm of motive and motion. But the Red Ink Illustrator's unclouded eye can capture even storms, releasing them across a page with perfect, patient brushstrokes. Soul-Sketching Focus supplements a Join Battle roll, adding the martial artist's Linguistics in bonus dice. Any opponent whose roll and Guile are both lower than his result is treated as the subject of an automatically successful read intentions action. In addition, the martial artist may exploit the Intimacies of any opponent he is aiming at to lower their Defense just as if it were their Resolve.

Acceptable? Unreasonable?

>>43876312
I don't know why you bothered with 'whose [...] Guile [is] lower than his result' when of fucking course it's lower.

It would probably be a lot neater if it was 'adds Linguistics to join battle, treat Join Battle roll as a read intentions roll against anyone with lower initiative.' The other bit feels tacked on, it should probably be part of the form - that way you can make it an instant charm rather than scene-long.

Holden and Morke are liars

never 4get

>>43876708
proceeding to not forget

I've been getting kind of interested in Exalted. Could someone sell the game just a bit more for me?

How much can you do as a starting character? Especially in comparison to more 'grounded' RPGs like DnD.

>>43877193
Weeaboo fightan magic bullshit where you play as a magical nuke with administrative powers empowered by the gods or in the case of the mook splat the sub souls of a Titan.

Setting is JRPG kitchen sink shit mixed up with shallow mythological and cultural names and references. Concept in your head is better than execution.

Download the setting books and skim over them and run in system of choice.

Proprietary system is garbage for high power weeaboo fightan magic nonsense

>>43877193
You can "summon" (more like predict) a natural disaster to destroy pretty much any place, once per year. Or steal people's weapons from their grip. Strangle someone with his own shadow. Read emotions from the taste of sweat. Summon a cloud of obsidian butterflies with wings as sharp as razors. Suplex a T-Rex and then throw it. Write a letter filled with burns so sick that its receiver dies. And many more. D&D wizards still can easily get things that are relatively big deal for Exalted, like true flying or Dominate Person but thta's D&D problem, not Exalted's flaw.

>>43877511
Hi P-goon.

>>43877193
Skip it. If you're not already in, 3e isn't meant for you.

>>43875257
a moba that you had to buy like HoN before it died horribly on Microsoft online

focused more on the demigods killing eachother, with creeps mainly as shields against other demigods.

rook is best

>>43877511
That guy focuses on the weeb take on Exalted which is valid, but not the only one. Also, he behaves kinda like a dick, so disregard him. Ex3 system isn't flawless or even very good, but it works good enough.

>>43877193
>How much can you do as a starting character? Especially in comparison to more 'grounded' RPGs like DnD.
Thanks to supernal, a starting character can basically learn some powers usually reserved to a late-game character with hundreds of xp.

So if you have supernal melee and focus your character on that, you can basically solo armies, cut down mortal heroes in seconds and only the most powerful war-gods are stronger than you.
If you want to focus on stealth you can make people forget you even exist, hide in people's shadow or make people forget they're in combat at all for surprise attacks.
etc.

>>43877193

i picked up exalted just last year

basically an Ess 1 Solar player is a big fucking deal of a hero who can do the impossible pertaining to their favored skill. They're world-changing crazy fucks who everyone ever is completely jealous of

so, compared to D&D? you should drop any notion of what D&D's like when you pick up exalted. You're comparing Western sphere influence to Eastern sphere influence.

Fights are brutally quick and vivid, rather than clanging armor for 30+ rounds until the HP stat hits 0. One nasty blow can leave a fighter crippled to a point where they get worse in their position with every round. Fighting is usually the last thing you want to do in this system. So it's pretty far the fuck away from D&D.

>>43877656

That game was fucking terrible, I remember.

>>43877653
That's complete nonsense, anon.

>>43877662
It's a good system that basically has issues with Crafting and can turn off people with its loads of options for characters.

>>43877662

It's always weeb as fuck as despite the attempts at covering up shit. And honestly the weeb stuff is the most genuine and coherent element in the game.

Shit was them channeling their weeabooness in Kindred of the East into a new property intended to help finish off D&D back when WoD was hot shit.

You got like a bunch of pre-2000's anime movies and Ovas as listed as inspirations. Of course cuz White Wolf is pretentious DBZ isn't listed.

Sidenote: The inspirations as a whole are retarded and at odds with each other due to incompatibility in feel, style, and power level.

Then you got the writers who have a boner for FF7 with their Buster Sword artifact weapons and the dozens of materia orbs you slot into them and other things. And one of the charms/powers is Omnislash.

Warstriders are totally not Guymelefs by way of Nagano's Mortarheadds

Also pretty sure one of the devs talking about one of the evocations as having the Bankai from Bleach as an influence as well.

Regardless of setting influences/inspirations.

I'd advise getting any editions save for perhaps the setting books. 3e is not very newb friendly as well as incomplete since you eyeball prev editions to get an idea for how to do the non-solar splats or wait in regards to the new types introduced in this edition.

>>43878803
Or they could just play Solars...

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>>43878848
Or we can giggle at the fact that Eoris and its goofy fucking character sheet manages to put three player character options in its 213 page rulebook where as Exalted which is 3x bigger only manages to do 2 page teasers for everyone else because charms are space eating garbage.

>>43879156
>three player character options
but anon, there's 11 character options in exalted, 5 castes, 5 experienced castes and mortals.

>>43879156
I don't even know why you'd even bother comparing them, there's no equivalence at all. You may as well say that Fate is better for having 'infinity' character types.

>>43879156
>pic
the fuck am I looking at, here? And are you really trying to tell me that that all makes sense with a 200 page book?

>>43879156
if you don't like charms, maybe you shouldn't play exalted

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>>43877193
Setting-wise, it's pretty top notch. It really avoids traditional Western fantasy cliches and puts a lot of thought into making a unique world that fits well together.

The PCs, even if the play 'ordinary' humans, are still on par with people like Beowulf or Achilles. Their likes and dislikes are mechanically significant attributes which, in their own way, matter just as much as how well they can swing a sword. You get bonuses to your rolls by adding cool descriptions to your actions.

In terms of starting characters? Keep in mind that, even as an ordinary human being, it's perfectly legit to play as the ruler of a city-state, or one of the most infamous swordsmen in a city, or a priest who has the ear of local gods.

Things really only scale up from there, with a starting Solar able to beat major deities silly with the right build, or write letters that damn the character of its recipients so thoroughly that they will simply die.

>>43879282
>there's no equivalence at all
Are they not both fantasy RPGs?

>Fate is better for having 'infinity' character types.
Agreed

>>43879289
Different anon.

>makes sense
No, the book and character sheet both read like an acid trip. It mostly works, though.

>>43879289
>Eoris
>makes sense
No one said that for a reason

>>43879322
>It really avoids traditional Western fantasy cliches
Such as?

>puts a lot of thought into making a unique world
Yes

>that fits well together.
Not really

>The PCs, even if the play 'ordinary' humans, are still on par with people like Beowulf or Achilles.
Nope

>>43879375
Well, in that case I can write a 2 page book with 25 different character types and compare it to everything else, right?


>>43879402
>Nope
a heroic mortal can kill like a 100 guy battlegroup, on his own.

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>>43879322
>>43877193

In terms of mechanics, 3E is pretty good. 2E Exalted especially had where fights were /way/ too lethal, unless the players planned for every contingency making it instead a boring slog to wear down their opponent's pool of magic first. 3E fixes this and a lot of other issues, but you probably don't want to play a dedicated Crafter in 3E and depending on how efficiently you build your character one player might end up with a head start compared to others (though that's still not nearly as bad as how it was in 1E and 2E, still)

>>43879402
>Such as?

The closest things to "Elves" are cthuloid soul-eaters that adopt fair forms to eat said souls, the main setting is not a European pastiche, the setting itself is mainly centered around cycles of the weak throwing down the strong (and then thrown down in turn) as well as the nature and abuse of power.

The last part is important because the setting is shockingly amoral. There are no metaphysical rewards for being a 'good' person, and even the Abyssals, avatars of Death that they are, are at their fundamental base people who decided they'd rather live than die.

Not to mention, magical healing is rare to nonexistant, nobody can come back to life, all actions have irrevocable consequences, and I could go on and on if you like?

>that fits well together.

2E was worse about it, because their writers didn't really understand the scale of the setting they made. 3E, thus far, doesn't seem to have nearly as many problems in that.

>Nope

Yep. Even a starting mortal pc, if built towards combat, can take out a battlegroup of dozens of 'typical' soldiers, RAW.

>>43877656
>>43877832
Needed more room IMO.

>>43878803
Exalted owes a fair bit to anime, but honestly I think it owes even more to pulp fantasy like Conan or Fafrhd and the Gray Mouser.

Even if the authors don't actually put those in their big list of inspirations.

>>43879856
Not to mention a whole lot of Elric

>>43879245
>Castes
You mean class? Albeit they're more like approaches since despite being a talky, fighty, sneaky, or nerdy guy you're all punch wizards.

>>43879289
I said rule book. Fluff book is another entity and I guess they split the game into two because after going through the fluff's relentless explanation of its cosmology you might want to have your rules stuff on easier access than after such front loaded fluff.

But the gist is you got mortals, divine critters, and the statue angel zerg who want to help God an hero and who the PCs play as Cerebrates that can move.

Each type gets its own mechanical gimmick.

Divine critters get hax and unique powers
Mortals get personas/stands and plot importance
Zerg Angels get an alternate form and some magics based on caste.

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>>43879614
>Shockingly amoral

>>43880067
>You mean class? Albeit they're more like approaches since despite being a talky, fighty, sneaky, or nerdy guy you're all punch wizards.

It's a point buy system, but your starting caste still determines how easy or difficult it is to go in a specific direction.

You don't have to be a punch wizard, you don't have to be any good at punching or learn any sorcery!

>>43880140
Well, I mean, if you get an offer to become an Infernal, you'd be foolish *not* to embrace it, whatever your moral inclinations otherwise.

>>43880351
True but given they're people who are turned into magical nukes designed to murder the notTitans the punch wizard things is technically apt as they're physically and magically empowered to do that .

>>43880378
Think you mean edgy. And even then Abyssals fit better since the Infernals could get around their demon patron's bullshit far easier

>Get reminded that our ST said Survival would be important
>Finally look at the survival tree
>it's a fucking combat tree.
I wasn't expecting that that at all.

>>43880517
>since the Infernals could get around their demon patron's bullshit far easier

Which is why you should embrace it without a second thought.

Abyssals have to deal with Resonance and interact with masters who like to be *very* hands on, so it might suck being one unless you're somewhere between sociopath and deranged murderer.

>>43880140
>le photograph of scruffy young man with lots of unfashionable hats
I want tumblr to leave.

>>43880636
Well, it's not JUST a combat tree, but yeah that's where all the familiar buffing charms go too.

>>43880636

17 combat charms, 7 non-combat charms. hey, at east no one can complain that familiars aren't worth anything anymore.

>>43880641
/r/ing that copypasta of the heroic infernal doing a mustache twirling exposition monologue of his heroic plans while strapping a db to a convoluted death trap

>>43880701
>>43880666
The survival part of it is very small compared to the combat part of it.

Speaking of which, how good is survival compared to the primary 4?

>>43880944

Depends on the familiar. A house cat becomes a decent adversary, while a Tyrant Lizard becomes a Circle slaying beast. I hear, but can't confirm, that their main weakness is grapplers and alpha-strikers, and obviously anyone with enough common sense to kill the handler.

I've heard good things about Survival/Ride/Archery combos, but investing in three skills will obviously take a while to get off the ground.

>>43881089
Can you combo it with Archery a lot of it seems to treat the familar as the weapon or at least Red-Toothed Execution Order does but I have no idea what that charm really does.

A question to those Storytellers out there. Do you let your players decide what their past lives were like or do you determine it for them and let them discover one their own? Or do you do a little of both?

>>43881139
>not firing your tyrant lizard from your bow.

>>43881182
It depends. Usually I ask the players for their preference, and if they don't have any ideas or want some mystery, then I'd be willing to make it up for them.

>>43881139

It can't be comboed with archery in the way that I imagine you think it can. You can learn two combat abilities, (eg. Melee and Archery) but can't use archery charms with a melee weapon and vice versa. Imagine survival being another combat ability and the familiar being the weapon. You can't use charms from other abilities on the familiar.

>>43881182

If they don't have the Past Lives merit, then it doesn't really matter. Most people with a Past Life just want be be Merela, anyway. Not her successor, the Crowned Queen of the Solars Returned.

>>43881276
I figured that was the case. Though it seems like you should be able to but maybe I'm overthinking it.

>>43879429
>you probably don't want to play a dedicated Crafter in 3E
I was hoping they'd fix Craft in 3rd ed but it sound like the dev team got lazy and reverted it back to first ed with an overly complex crafting system.

So how many years do you think we'll have to wait til all the Exalted splat (at least the major ones) for 3E are playable? I hope it would be at least 2 every year. I wouldn't want to wait 4-5 years to play Abyssals and Infernals.

>>43881708
>IMplying it won't be 5 years for Lunars and 10 for sidereals
Maybe in twenty.

>>43881708
Why are you so impatient?

You know they're going to suck no matter what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR9uxl90F0g

Ideas how to implement that?

>>43881708
15-20

So have you tried running Exalted in Valley of Eternity's framework?

>>43881832
>>43881865
>>43881903
Why the pessimism?

>>43881881
Infernals
Alternatively Exigent of some forbidden god

>>43881950
Why the optimism?

If I want to play a socially focused character but still not drag combat how many charms do I need for defense and offence? I was going with a persona build and wanted to throw all my offensive combat charms on to him. TO be honest, the plan is to just use at your service to actually use the charms. Personas don't actually seem viable except as a way to mix and match powers as needed.

>>43882150
Excellent Strike, Dipping Swallow Defense, Ox-Body Technique (if you have Stamina 3 or higher).

>>43882150
It looks to be fine if you don't go combat focus on any of your characters, and instead just dip for those charms. Personas just seem to me to be a way to shore up the weak bits of your party instead of improve the strong bits.

>>43882232
I wanted to actually use my personas but it's impractical between the limited amount of dots you get between them and the amount of time necessary to switch. It's just unfortunate.

>>43882194
I was going with dodge and thrown so I could divide them easier.

>>43882128
>implying I was being optimistic
You're not answering the question.

>>43882272
The switching thing isn't so bad if you have a goal you need to accomplish that can only be accomplished by that persona. It actually gets easier the higher level you are because of the way it scales with EXP.

>>43882357
I'll have to try it out but without the ability to go without food or sleep it just seems like it'd be impossible to go day by day which is what our story has been like. I just wish I didn't need larceny 4/5 on everyone for FID. IT just hinders my dots.

>>43882300
A single Thrown charm won't really help. I'd spend them all on Dodge and get Reed in the Wind and Shadow Over Water.

>>43882478
No My persona is going all offensive my actual character is getting defense and when combat gets really tight I'm going to spend 10m 1wp to get that as well other skills that would be necessary. The only unfortunate part about this build is that it'll take about 50 more xp before I can get the charm because I didn't want to spend 15 charms to get it with the persona at zero Xp when they share 95% of the skills and abilities because ability distribution for persona is kind of fucked.

The book says you can't combo MA and Non-MA charms to enhance the same action. Last I checked there was some disagreement about which interactions, precisely, were forbidden, but for the sake of simplicity let's assume we're talking about an attack with a weapon here. Can you combo MA and Evocations to enhance the same attack?

>>43883976

I assumed that was one reason for evocations to exist, so yes.

>>43882532
God damn you're picky as shit.

Why exactly are you so hot to use this Persona? To what degree could you solve your problem by just statting the character you actually want to play and taking some quick disguise Charms?

>>43883976
Yes, definitely.

But god do we ever need exact clarifications on what can go with what.

>>43884281
I'm just stating the situation. My character has already been made and I've played for a while. The character has personas I'm just trying to figure out what throwing charms I needed.

>>43884470
Doesn't matter, just take one of the entry charms, you'll buy them all eventually anyway. Defense is a much bigger problem.

>Q: is "the Black Fleet of the Bodhisattva Anointed by Dark Water," going to be a thing in 3e? (CrownedSun)'
>A: Fuck. No. (Holden)
>Q: What about "Island Five", as a thing that exists? (CrownedSun)'
>A: Motherfuck no. (Holden)

What does the Dev team have against The Fleet and Island 5?

>>43876494
You're right, including Guile was redundant, and with that cut I can tighten the whole thing up. I still don't know how I feel about the Intimacy thing - it seems like a cool idea, but even with the "must be aiming" restriction that's a pretty heavy penalty. I'm gonna cut it altogether for now.

>>43884671
Because they make the most interesting Deathlord plot a cover for his real plot: 'kill everything'. That's boring as fuck.

>>43884671
Holden is pitiful

He's one step below doing it for hotpockets

>>43884671
The fleet is a giant First Age magitech arsenal poised to sweep most of Creation, starting with the West, so that's got to go because not only is it itself a ton of magitech, any defense that can stand up to it is going to necessarily be the same kind of I-can't-believe-it's-not-Autochtonia thing.

Island 5 is presumably being cut for the same reason, it was a project to mass-produce magical materials for the creation of magitech. I don't know that the general idea of the Bodhisattva trolling everyone is going away, but it might, who knows.

The short answer is just "all magitech must go." I'm in the "okay, no problem" camp on that. The occasional warstrider is all that's needed; I am massively burnt out by how literally two out of every three Twilights I ever saw anywhere had plans or an explicit Motivation to return the First Age and start the Industrial Magitech Revolution.

>>43884640
I see. how much defense should be necessary in dodge? man, I hate how I have to focus even harder than I did before. At least in the old game I could get my defense at entry and never have to worry about it again.

>>43884764
>Industrial Magitech Revolution
Considering how craft works now. That's more possible now than ever.

>>43874116
Did anyone else ever play Demigod? I felt like the only really interesting champion was Rook, and I've always been disappointed that none of the other MOBAs really made a character like him.

>>43881199
Sidereals have the best Archery charm.

>>43884890
I'm wondering how Sidereal Ride/Survival will be in terms of familiar combat. It'll either be better than Solar survival from a familiar perspective but worse charm wise or it'll be the worst.

>>43884796
Not so much now that it's explicitly out-of-setting in a never-happened-never-will kind of way, and since the Twilight is so vital to anything ever getting done.

The problem in 2E had a lot to do with manses and craft-focused Artifacts and demons and training Charms as force multipliers. You can't do any of that stuff anymore. It's all on you. Yeah, you're a one-man factory, but that's ultimately manageable - you're still one man.

>>43884774
Just take the penalty negator, that's two charms but the prerequisite effectively increases your Evasion by one so you want that anyway.

Parry is better than Dodge without serious investment, but if you want Dodge then that's the way to go. You can get Reflex Sidestep Technique and Flow Like Blood later.

>>43884812
yeah rook was really the only one with any sort of character i felt. all the other champions were just a bunch of cliches.

>>43884764

I still kinda like Island 5 as a secret base of horrible research, weapons production, and army making. It'd make the Silver Prince seem like the "good" deathlord, but when really he knee you in balls just as hard as any other. He just doesn't show his hand.

>>43884970
Solar Survival is arguably the strongest combat build (at least out of the box) if you've got a tyrant lizard and still pretty amazing if you've got anything else.

It also caps at Essence 3, so if you want to go completely stupid, you can play an Occult-Supernal Twilight and have multiple greenmaw/teodozjia familiars, plus your special Ephemeral Induction Technique familiar (do whatever you want at E1, but upgrade to a raksha cataphract at E2, look at that fucking thing) that gains experience like you do.

I don't honestly see how Sidereals can improve on the beastmaster/summoner Solar because it's already really familiar-focused.

>>43884970
I have trouble picturing Survival as a thing Siddies do, actually. I mean, it's one of the core things Lunars do. To the extent that Lunars do abilities at all, Survival is explicitly theirs. And the #1 cause of Siddie death in 3e? Lunars.

I would almost not be surprised to see 3e Siddie survival tree be HA HA NO, and then skip to the next ability. Almost.

>>43885048
>>43885051
It wouldn't be survival it'd be ride which gives you a god familiar and at a moments notice a Elemental Dragon as an emergency. I mean I said survival but ride makes more sense. They clearly have access to stronger familiars at least godly ones with charms.

>you can play an Occult-Supernal Twilight and have multiple greenmaw/teodozjia familiars,
You need occult for that? I haven't read all the charms.

>>43885016
>>43884812
There was also, Oak or something? That guy who summoned spirits. He was kind of cool.

>>43885104
The greenmaws and teodozjia you collect via slapping people with your anima, which is unique to Twilights. Since you can't get Survival or Ride Supernal, you might as well get Occult Supernal for Ephemeral Induction Technique.

EIT lets you create ex nihilo a spirit or raksha at your Essence. It is automatically your familiar, loyal, and far and away most importantly it gains experience at the same rate you do. This becomes a bigger deal as you go up in Essence, but even at Essence 2, the ability to pull together a cataphract or lorelei is outstandingly powerful. Their stats are high enough that you might as well upgrade rather than keeping your original, which judging by the Field Guardian (the only E1 spirit we have) is going to be good but not amazing.

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>>43874116
>Thread is about Exalted
>Image is about Demigod

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>>43881182
>Do you let your players decide what their past lives were like or do you determine it for them and let them discover one their own? Or do you do a little of both?

If they have an idea for their past lives I'll listen to it; if it's boring or just a dumb excuse to start off with implausible Merits I'll veto it until they make it interesting.

Otherwise I'll only bring it up when I don't have any other way to get a plot arc rolling - I find using a character's existing contacts/allies/friends way more useful, mostly, and I like leaving the First Age nebulous so the PCs can argue with each other and NPCs about whose fault it was that everything went to shit.

>>43884671
>What does the Dev team have against The Fleet and Island 5?

In addition to what everyone else has said, it was boring as fuck. We already have Lion and Mask with big armies to invade Creation; Prince's schtick was that he was the 'nice' Deathlord, the guy who seemed to be building a macabre yet orderly and not overtly awful kingdom of the living and the dead - and then that got shat all over, haha, fucksticks, of course he's murdering and torturing everyone and ZOMBIE HORDES FOREVER!

Further, because they made his fleet huge and invincible, there was literally no plotline once it came into play besides, "Unite everyone else against the Silver Prince". If any of your players read the book, then that was their first question - "How much do I know about what the Prince is doing and how can I start planning for it?"

It was really the best example of the 2e clusterfuck that developed from every book having a new Ultimate Doom in it.

>>43886134
Anon, do you really expect us to use any official Ex3 art for any reason? We still want people to play the game!

>>43881950
>>43882315
Not any of them, but I assume it's because hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

>>43885202
Remember that whatever you create doesn't have to be a god, ghost, raksha, elemental or whatever. It can be something else whatsoever. At least I would allow it if it would be interesting. Or you can create ghost that has never lived.

>>43886455
>Anon, do you really expect us to use any official Ex3 art for any reason?

>implying that in Exalted threads is better not to use Exalted artwork

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How would you stat pic related?

>>43878737
Except Holden already admitted as much when his answer to rules that aren't in 3e is "it's the same as 2e"

>>43881950
15-20 is optimism, not pessimism.

Pessimism is knowing we'll never get them all.

>>43886455
You say a lot.

But none of it makes sense when you actually read it.

>>43887779
It all makes perfect sense, what's wrong with you?

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>>43887609
>>43886455
And not all the art is so bad!

>>43887784
Great counterargument. You must be some sort of master debater.

>>43887857
And is >>43887779 supposed to be ANY kind of argument?

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>>43887827

>>43887857
It is all perfect English. I understand what they're saying fine.

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>>43887873

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>>43887891

>>43887779
Anon, if you want proper counterarguments you should make proper arguments. "None of that makes sense" is not worth much if you don't elaborate on why it doesn't make sense.

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How common are sorcerers in society? Mortal one's outside the Realm, and DB's inside.

>>43888202

Not very, apparently. Being known as a Sorcerer gives you a point in influence because people know that you're powerful. Mortals and DBs are on the same tier for Sorcery, aren't they? That kind of makes them a big deal.

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>>43888228
I'm trying to determine how many sorcerers (if any) would be in a small city, a capital of a kingdom, an entire country, etc.

>>43888248
How many other Influence 1 people are floating about the same city?

So, what sorts of creatures have you made for the "Create a loyal minion with supernatural powers comparable to a Second Circle demon or notable god," option for Ambition 3 Celestial Workings?

I'm thinking of doing the Pillar Men, with the Jojo Vampires being 1st Circle Demon-equivalents they can create from slain mortals (or through Artifact 3 masks - Artifact 3, because Yasal Crystals are Artifact 2). Ghouls are basically Hungry Ghosts. They're all a form of spirit that are naturally material like elementals, and they can only be permanently slain by attacks imbued with Solar essence; before the return of the Solar Exalted, this was mostly limited to rare spirits in the service to the Unconquered Sun, and an order of Dragonblooded martial artists who practiced the Four Arms of the Unconquered Sun Style.

Most of the stuff they can do is already in the book, even; the regular Vampires are basically covered between the charms that Blood Apes and Neomah have, plus the Hungry Ghost's sunlight vulnerability.

The Pillar Men themselves would have a smattering of charms from the assorted Essence 5-6 spirits, plus a version of the Hungry Ghost's sunlight vulnerability that deals Bashing damage and turns them into a statue if Incapacitated; they'd have the "body flows like water" damage-avoidance from Fakharu, a bunch of charms from Octavian, maybe the insect plague charm from Alveua for the "lava-filled blood vein field" trick that AC/DC pulled, and definitely a few select charms from Ahlat like his healing charm and Blood Kisses Sand (though their version *can* kill their opponents).

How is it possible to run a DB campaign for 2 years and have the players never know about other splats or at the very least other splats not being meant for player use? Doesn't that mean the players never read the core rulebook for a game they've been playing for 2 years?

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>>43888269
About 10-20. Any famous craftsman, moderately rich merchant, captain of the watch, lieutenant of the garrison, venerated elder, foreign dignitary and local artist has at least influence 1.

>>43888248
I think it all depends. Small city probably wouldn't have any, just regular savants and priests. Big, notable city can have one, if only because there are people that can afford Sorcerer's services if he decides to offer them. Some odd places can have one, like small village with archetypical wizard tower nearby. Overall, they shoould be rare and exotic, not something every city has as a convenience.

>>43884671
Is there even people more smug in all history of RPG crafting?

>Is that still a thing?
>Nope lol xd :) why? lel kek are you stupid son?

>>43888297
The GM can present homemade materials that cut out the solar-y stuff from the core.

>>43888307
The matter of Prince's Doomfleet was discussed on the game's forums and part of the widely know problem. He just confired that no, they are not going to make the same horrible mistake again.

>>43884812
I liked Rook and the Fire and ice guy.

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>>43888307
Be nice smug is all Holden has.
If he was a c uck it would be icing on the pathetic cake.

>You will never be Anthony Birch

>>43888248
"Sorcerers" are exceedingly rare, they unlock the full spectrum of magic and can do with it what they please. That makes them incredibly powerful and influential.

But 99% of mortals with sorcery aren't going to be all-encompassing sorcerers in the same sense an exalt is. They have a shaping ritual, a control spell and the ability to create workings, but unlike a Solar what tey can access with it is limited by the circumstances of their enlightenment. A woman who became a sorcerer after siring a water elementals child will have a water based control spell & ritual and merits maybe, but will never be able to conjure brilliant raptors or cirrus skiffs, and her workings will be limited to water, elementals and children/childbirth.

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>>43888486
>but will never be able to conjure brilliant raptors or cirrus skiffs, and her workings will be limited to water, elementals and children/childbirth.
But that's just flat out wrong. Any sorcerer can learn more spells, only problem being lack of access to teachers.

Similarly, Workings are only ever limited by the sorcerers imagination, skill and Means.

>>43881199
Actually, one of my players made their Dawns past life into a "second best" Primordal War Vet who had an intimacy of "queen MRL, glory grabbing WHORE". The past life HATED her, for a number of reasons.

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Reminder that Holden hates his fans.

>>43888571
Lunar animas aren't in the book.

Neither are their sorcery chams,which seems like a dick move

>>43888686
They were talking about 2e.

I'll have to check if Heart's Blood even works the same way in 3e.

Is there any indication if Mahjong is part of the Exalted world? Do the guild hold high stakes Mahjong tournaments? Is it a popular form of gambling for some social classes?

>>43889048
Mahjong has never been mentioned.

Creation does have their chess analogue in Gateway, though it's more similar to Star Treks 3d chess. Most nobles play it.

>>43889048
It's mentioned in charm text a few times(under Larceny), iirc. So it definitely exists.

How big of a deal it is, though, is up to the ST.

>>43888202
>How common are sorcerers in society? Mortal one's outside the Realm, and DB's inside.
Morke, or maybe Holden, said somewhere that one mortal in a million might have what it takes to become a sorcerer. This was a while back and might not be in line with the devs' current thoughts on the matter, though. As for DB sorcerers, no specific numbers or even vague estimates that I know of have been provided, but the way sorcery and sorcerers are described makes it seem like a small minority of Dragon-Blooded are sorcerers. So they're rare as fuck, but they probably aren't evenly spread across the Creation. Large, wealthy cities will probably draw sorcerers for the same reasons they draw ambitious people in general, while large backwater areas with nothing of interest probably won't have sorcerers sitting around.

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>>43888697
>>43888571
Ahahaha, the devs seriously need a dedicated and COMPETENT PR person.
I was reading through the Lunars section of the What We Know site, and holy shit they are bad at it. Holden often deliberately misses the point of posts, sometimes accidentally, he's passive aggressive, all the devs are too arrogant about their game and setting developing skills and overhype constantly, and they give semi-contradictory and unclear statements.

>>43889063
Which edition did you see it mentioned in charms?

>>43888571
>>43888686

Under the "Shapeshifting Trickster" Lunar writeup, the "Shapeshifting" power indicates that the Lunar can get new forms both through seduction and for doing a person a favor. That's pretty huge if they make those anima freebies instead of locking them behind Essence 3+.

In this very specific case I'm willing to attribute Holden derping and not recalling that this was not listed explicitly as an anima power instead of attributing to malice or just being wrong about his own system.

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>>43889110
My bad, I thought this mentioned Mahjong tiles specifically.

Still, just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it can't exist. If that were the case, Gateway would be the only tabletop/board game in existence, I'm pretty sure.

>>43889096

Turns out that PR people, like accountants and management are actually really useful in a team.

Not just the 'I'm the creative genius here' people.

>>43889237
Yes, but the question is, whether or not OPP can find PR people willing to work for next to nothing, like the devs.

>>43889251
Presumably they could hire one for all their franchises together and offer a normal wage.

>>43889251
Sadly, people who feel it their calling to make polite, reasonable, unoffensive posts in the Internet are in short supply.

>>43889251

Yeah, just a little bitter that Management is the eternal butt of jokes about being pointless.

I spent a couple of years there before happily going back to coding and if Management is doing it's job, it can do wonders.

>>43889275
So, basically just rpg.net moderators?

>>43876304
Any thoughts, guys? Need critique on sword-breaking and Brawl AOEs.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n8BkGHMGC_CTKwoDVNVcesKgTTf6lTO4MXBY6HUpVIE/edit?usp=sharing

Which examples would be heroic mortals?

>>43890157
Literally everyone important.
If a person is individually important, they're heroic.

>>43890195

Yes, but where is the line between Heroic and Exalted?

>>43890525
an anima

>>43890525
...Exaltation?

I mean, maybe?

>>43890525
Having magic granted by a higher being.

>>43890566
That's also true of many nonexalted sorcerers

>>43890577
Nah, they get enlightenment/realize how things really work, they manipulate Essence, but have none of their own.

>>43890083
Is there actually a way for the Solar to not fuck themselves up using Cataclysmic Rage Fist? Element-Resisting Prana only helps against 'elemental' sources of damage, and I'm not completely sure what that means.

>>43890602

Enlightenment and sorcery are two different things.

>>43890602
Shooting fire out of your eyes is power of your own

>>43890647
No. Enlightenment as in giving a mortal a mote pool, no longer exists. Sorcerous initiations definitely qualify as lower "e" enlightenment.
>>43890659
That's more like a supernatural mutation or thaumathurgical ritual. When I say power I mean real power: Essence.

>>43890685
>No. Enlightenment as in giving a mortal a mote pool, no longer exists.

With a gesture, the Solar uplifts a favored follower and
grants him true power. This Charm permanently empowers a character under the effect of Underling-Promoting
Touch, granting him a personal Essence pool of four motes
plus up to five more, provided by the Solar upon using this
Charm.

>>43890647
Enlightenment isn't a distinct mechanical thing at all in 3E. 'Enlightenment' is a reasonably apt term for what a sorcerous initiation represents, though. The sorcerer has his eyes opened to the flow of Essence in the world and gains some understanding in how to manipulate this flow. He doesn't however, gain power held within - not an Essence pool or anything like that. The sorcerer manipulates the world outside himself rather than draw power from within.

Have the Neverborn something like demons?

>>43890922
They don't have autonomous souls but they do have minions of various stripes: all varieties of ghosts.

>>43890922
No. They don't have any souls, as they're dead.

>>43890922
Hekatoncheires.

How would you convert Donkey Kongs Coconut Shooter into an Exalted thing? Is it a Green Jade barrel affixed to an Orichalcum stock that makes use of a Working to fire copies of whatever you jam into it that home in on your target?

>>43890999
Where can I read about them?

>>43891031
Why does everything have to be a Working? Just say it's an artifact.

>>43891031
Artifact, as an attunement benefit it fires whatever is in the barrel. Everything else is evocations.

>>43891115
>Why does everything have to be a Working?
We aren't allowed guns this edition, plus the Working is how I'd justify the barrage of homing coconuts.

>>43891166
There are massive firedust cannons somewhere in the south that use the minimal explosive force that firedust creates to throw huge cannonballs from the walls.

Artifacts never require workings to function, that's dumb. Artifacts function because of their nature or because of evocations.

>>43891214
>Artifacts never require workings to function
Except if they are FA artifice.

>>43891097
I don't think any of the 2e books define what they are, but CoCD: Underworld gives a few examples such as the Infinite Prison.

>>43890525
Being chosen or not.

>>43891115
Because Crafting sucks donkey balls

>>43891499
You can't make an artifact with a working though. You still need Craft.

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Reminder that you need trigger warnings in your OPP forum posts.

>>43891578
Malfeas Fire can't melt Autocthon Beams.

>>43891632

So what would happen if Autocthon's soul steel made of ayy lmaos got broken and they reincarnated?

>>43891632
Well, yeah, they are laser beams.

>>43891701
Soulsteel can't "get broken". When you bake bread, you can't get back the eggs.

>>43891734
Sounds like a challenge

>>43891734
>When you bake bread, you can't get back the eggs.
DORA!

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What did people who bought custom charms pick?

>>43891924
We don't know yet.

>>43891950
Some of them posted here, it's more of an open question to them

What do people think of a Capstone evocation that creates a wall in response to an attack? Basically the walls take the hit instead of the Solar but are destroyed by the attack. It can only be used at full anima banner but use of it resets it to dim.

I like the concept, but I'm wary because it's basically a perfect defense. What do people think?

>>43892021
Make it so that if it's destroyed with enough excess force, the defender still gets hit for the excess damage.

What are some broken set ups you can do with Melee or Brawl? What's the best and fastest way to drop someone in combat? For both essence 1 and essence 5 for maximum cheese at start and end of a game.

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I'm making a warlord character in a upcoming game. What attributes and abilities should I take. I already maxed Charisma and Presence.

Also, I picked up one 4-point retainer and two 2-point retainers as my generals, what kind of stats do retainers usually have?

>>43892092
That's an interesting idea. Like a Defend-other that fails if it's killed. Sounds tricky as hell to balance though.

So assuming it's decisive only, the defender activates it in response to an attack and forces the attacker to spend initiative to destroy it. Rather than reset normally after this attack they lose however many successes they got capped at the health of the wall. The attacker, if they killed the wall, continues their original attack as normal.

It seems like the difficult part here is deciding how many health levels the wall has. Any suggestions?

Can you take mutations in ex3? I wanted to make a chosen beastman lizardman.

>>43892289
Yeah, they're merits

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>>43892239
You need War, and mental attributes are nice.
Retainers don't have "usual" stats. Figure out what kind of people/magic beings they are, then stat them.
For the love of Sol, take Command.
>>43892279
>Any suggestions?
Just make it Decisive soak. 3-6 seems about right for a capstone.

>>43892317

Sweet. Now I can be a knock off dragon king AND lunar!

>>43892220

Anyone? Not trying to be a shit just want to prepare for some of my players so I won't give them one sided stomps all game.

>>43892395
>Just make it Decisive soak.
You know, until you said that I didn't realise that I was writing a more complicated version of Adamant Skin Technique.

>>43892395
Maxed War and put dots in Command as well.

I'm thinking about making the 4-point retainer my "Sima Yi" and the 2 2-dot retainers would be my character's distant kin who would lead my elite troops.

I also had to take followers since I need ministers to do my job when I'm away adventuring.

Is it plausible for there to be a circle of ronin Sidereals that basically act as journalists for a region in Creation?

What caste and exalt type would be best for Hitler?

>>43892884
Solar Zenith

>>43892817

As a temporary state of affairs? Yeah, plausible.

But locking up 5% of the entire Sidereal host in... basically just jacking off, since it's not like journalism would have any net effect most of the time (ie outside of exposing meaningful scandals and secrets), would make them look really incompetent or selfish if it was a permanent state of affairs.

>>43892908
arguably Eclipse

>>43893119
Nah, Zenith.

>>43888351
>The matter of Prince's Doomfleet was discussed on the game's forums and part of the widely know problem.

What are the ins and outs of the Prince's Doomfleet? Because the game's forum has an history of parroting, failing the most simple reality check, and advocating the most bizarre solutions for really easy problems. 3E craft has a huge cult following in the game's forum, by instance. I wouldn't call them 'sane' by any stretch.

>they are not going to make the same horrible mistake again.

By which scale is this horrible? Who decided it was horrible, aside a bunch of circle jerking 15-17 years old who mistakenly believe they are cleverer than others?

I'm genuinely curious. The game's forum shouldn't be taken as seriously as you seem to believe it is. And indeed if Holden's decision was based on it, it would be a very, very sad thing.

Are Battle sorcerer possible?

How do you Black Lagoon in Exalted?

>>43893873
Well, from it's brief description in the 3E Core, Champoor sounds like a pretty good setting for a Black Lagoon inspired campaign. The crew'd probably be a bunch of pretty skilled heroic mortals doing courier and smuggling work around the Dreaming Sea.

>>43893845
Yes.

>>43893873
Play GURPS

>>43893811
>What are the ins and outs of the Prince's Doomfleet?
It was discussed here earlier. >>43886455 as an example. Shortly, it was yet another Big Bad Army that threatened to roll around Creation and kill everyone. 2E was abundant in such impending calamities, creating an atmosphere that discouraged any local, personal conflicts.

>>43894159
Turning an insidious long term threat into a crude short term threat should always be looked down on, even if there weren't already too many of the latter.

>>43889347
>RPG.net mods
>Polite
>reasonable
Ahahaha.

>>43893996

Seconded

>>43893996
>Looking for suggestions on training my dog.
>Here's a goat.
Brilliant.

>>43893972

How strong can they be?

>>43881950
>Why the realism?
Because it's what the devs deserve based on their actions.

>>43894343
Against battlegroups and at long range: amazing. With core spells, I mean. There's nothing stopping you from homebrewing new ones.

>>43888307
I know, it's disgusting. He alone is the reason why I'll never buy an Onyx Path game. He doesn't deserve money.

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Is he a Dawn or a Zenith?

>>43894538
HOLDEN DOES IT FOR

FREE
E
E

>>43895122
Not again.

>>43893119
Nah, Hitler is better known for his impassioned speeches and ability to unite Germany together

>>43888307

The C-Tech developers

I create a exalted in space setting. How do I add Wyld and Fair Folk?

>>43896318
You read Shards of the Exalted Dream, which has two space settings

>>43892817
>journalists for a region in Creation?

For journalists to exist, you need a population that is extremely literate (like 80%+), that has easy access to reliable printing technology (far beyond what Gutenberg had), and that has the cosmopolitan connections to care about what's going on beyond the next valley.

None of that shit exists in any part of Creation, except possibly the Imperial City and other outlying areas of the Blessed Isle. You can have pockets of education and literacy (I imagine Lookshy and Varang, among others), but they would not be able to sustain a newspaper.

The rich and powerful receive their news because some thousand of their citizens know that they'll get a bit of silver for a useful tip, that's all.

>>43893811
>What are the ins and outs of the Prince's Doomfleet?

Without checking my book, 100 First Age warships crewed by undead. The stats for First Age warships made any one of them a boss battle for a Second Age fleet; one hundred of them is more than the rest of the West put together, and then you start factoring in troops with perfect morale, etc...

>>43896367

>Wyld nebulae

I like it.

>>43891924
Prayer Charms

>>43897147

I need to then make a Crow totem Lunar whose goal is to teach people literacy and then spread 'reliable' new in her paper.

>>43894408
That seems like a good role for a war sorcerer. Any closer, and one should have to fall back on actual combat skills, though possibly supported by bronze skin and wood dragon's claw.

>>43898139
And then you have a justification for the Sidereal journalists, since someone needs to start up a competing paper to cut down the Anathema's lies.

>>43897147
Journalism does not in any way require literacy. There are ways around that, and it has been done in the past.

The bigger obstruction to journalism is freedom of speech, because of course it is. King MyGodIsAnAwesomeNecromancerHeReigns doesn't appreciate some exalted punk coming into his city and talking about how he's the worst king in creation.

Since the exalted protect their free speech with martial arts and mass murder, I guess that's not a huge barrier.

>>43899783
Added to which, freedom of speech isn't a concept in current-times Creation.

Hell, the very (very, very) few exalts who work towards abolishing slavery are seen as lunatics by the majority of the population, even the most, how to say, humanitarian.

>>43899858

I remember the last game I was in.

3 circle members had "Abolish Slavery" as motivation.

>>43895122
He's a boring piece of shit whose ability to fire swords out of what I'm told is an Ancient Astronauts Are Real spaceship at things is not only a prime example of how weebs will accept any level of retardation as long as you have squeaky-voiced ant-people sound excited about it,

it also completely defeats and defiles the point of having swords anyway. Archer also fires swords out of a bow or something, right? So there's a big circle jerk going on about people who throw their swords away from themselves? Holy shit, an entire anime about wizards from Sumeria too fucking invalid to understand guns. So worthy of Exalted! Please.

When I first heard of Sailor Moon, I said something about pirates, and the faggot telling me about it said no, there aren't any ships, they're just called sailors and they wear clothes that are vaguely inspired by sailor outfits, but dresses.

I thought that was as bad as anything could be. Fate/Stay Night doesn't even have a comprehensible TITLE.

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>>43899935
Disgusting.
>>43899858
>humanitarian
I too approve of eating your fallen foes.
It is only right to eat them and add their former strength to yours.

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>>43899935
I'm playing in one of those games now. Why the fuck do people do this? There are so many more interesting things to focus on than mundane fucking civil rights but every other game is about slavery for some reason. Not even soulsteel-slavery or slavery in Hell, no, it's always "let's go around ambushing the fucking Guild and freeing small city-states and jacking ourselves off for being progressive or whatever" and it really grinds my gears because I don't know how that can be SATISFYING, it sure as hell is not for me.

>>43900197
>Oy vey it's anuddah shoah with them damn exalts freeing all the slaves and assaulting our shekel supply

>>43899935
Eugh. If you want to play a Lawful Good Paladin go play D&D or something, please?

>>43900197

I mainly because its that people cannot separate IRL values to the in-game values.

>>43900314
Which would be easier to do if it had any coherently written values.

But given this is White Wolf to expect anything of quality is to waste your time. At most you'll get something that looks functional

>>43894408
Wood Dragon's Claw is good times for the three claw styles, and Invulnerable Skin of Bronze works with both Kenshin style and Steel Devil, on top of the medium armor you're already wearing, for really good soak and some fringe benefits.

Incomparable Body Arsenal goes okay with White Reaper. It's ironically not as good as as Invulnerable Skin of Bronze because of the duration and how you have to pay eight fucking motes to pop an artifact weapon, but since you have free armor that basically balances out, you get Evocations for everything, and the immunities and advantages are actually worth having.

So you can be that kind of battle sorcerer also, and it's super-compatible with Magma Kraken or Death of Obsidian Butterflies.

Plus summoning. And you can pay for it all with Solar XP. God. I can't actually imagine not taking sorcery in 3E, up to Celestial at least.

>>43900244
I'd argue House Cynis are the real kikes of Exalted.

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>>43900314
There's so many worse fucking things! Slavery isn't even like in your face or anything outside of Great Forks, holy shit.

>>43900453
you mean like the bad crunch?

>>43900493
What?
>>43900405
What were the Essence requirements for the Sorcery Circles?

>>43900535
>What were the Essence requirements for the Sorcery Circles?

E1, E3, E5. Supernal doesn't apply.

>>43900560
Neeeh.
I think 1, 2, and 3, or 1, 2, and 4 would be better.

>>43900453
Hell even in Great Forks--at least in 2e--slaves have a lot more rights than they do elsewhere. I think it's one of the few places where a slave can get manumitted.

>>43899935
Well, it's not a terrible motivation if your exalt is an ex-slave. It doesn't make economic sense in most of Creation, or the Underworld, or Malfeas, but they probably weren't chosen by the UCS for having 3 dots in Bureaucracy.

The last guy I rolled up just wanted to kill all the demons. And all the guys who summon demons. And all the guys who worship demons. Motivation is just where your direction comes from. It doesn't have to be a particularly good idea or even possible.

>>43900759
Granted, if you WERE chosen because of your bureaucracy skillz and have an abolitionist ambition, you don't really have an excuse NOT to have some plan for minimizing the economic fallout of it ready to go before you start.

>>43900197

Considering that Exalted is a game about consequences, what are some good ones for abolishing slavery?

Here's my idea, bare in mind that I don't really know much about running a nation or maintaining an economy, I just want to come up with a post-slavery scenario for potential players.. Lets come up with a nation called Feclua, somewhere in the South. In Fecula, slaves make up the majority of the work force, and are only taken from neighboring countries. People born within the country think themselves too good for manual labour. Slavery has been practiced in the nation for centuries, and as such, much of the economy in the nation is dependent on the perpetuation of this hierarchy. Now, if slaves are freed, the economy becomes destabilized which affects surrounding nations that trade with Feclua, which could potentially cause other problems. More pressingly, there is likely to be civil unrest, Slavery is suddenly outlawed, but life long slaves now have no direction and slaveowners still think that "slave work" is beneath them and socially unacceptable. The nation is likely to be in turmoil, and was possibly already when the players were trying to outlaw slavery. There are possible chances of rioting, but that's nothing the PCs couldn't handle. Also of note is foreign threats. If Feclua had enemies, they are likely going to try and make the best of this for themselves, worst case scenario is Feclua being invaded. It's also likely that there will be raiders trying to capitalize on this, but the enemy army/nation is the bigger issue.

Any other ideas to build onto this? Have any of you played a game where Slavery was successfully abolished? What happened afterwards?

>>43900658
>Solar Circle Sorcery
>at Essence 3

How's about you go fuck yourself.

>>43900453

To be honest, if you were a Western tribe that fell victim to a "Come in and see the inside of our ship! It's really cool inside!" scams and then seeking to make sure it never happens to your people again/evict the guild.

But I'd see nothing wrong with said character enslaving his enslavers either.

>>43900993

Neeeh.

Nah.

>>43900858
>Consequences
>Rampant power wank and wish fulfillment bullshit

Does not compute fäm

>>43901262
Not that anon but I don't see what's so hard to understand. The PCs effectively destroyed a whole nation because they wanted to free slaves.

>>43901446
Yeah freeing slaves isn't an easy deal.

The current plan that I have if we go that route in our game is to have our Supernal Bureaucrat draft up some plan that will somewhat offset the cost of letting the slaves go, because like the guy said before just freeing slaves isn't the end of it.

So, I kind of want some help with running my game.
I've mentioned it a handful of times before; the zenith has a orichalcum daiklave with wings on it but explicitly didn't want flight-related evos, and wanted sword beams so he could be his favorite Fate/Shit character, the Dawn is a blind one-armed single point stylist, the Twilight is a doctor who's dabbling in craft to make alchemical stuff(like medicine), and the Night is a gambler who stole an airship from Lookshy

The first session basically consisted of the Three(game is set in Great Forks) calling all but the Dawn together just to kind of celebrate the fact that they had THREE Solars in their city at once, and they each had an effective mentor in one of the three, then the Dawn chased a man controlled by a Marotte into the party and he single-handedly(ba dum tsch) took it down.

Second session, today, started with them all in a tavern they headed for at the end of the last session, and it basically just consisted of the Night telling the Dawn and Zenith(Twilight's player had to duck out an hour before we played for IRL reasons) that he wanted to look into a goddess in the city whose house guards seemed to never change shifts, and the Zenith telling the other 2 he wants to try and take out the Mask of Winters.

The Night managed to find out some stuff about the house/its guards(specifically that there's a secret room that is probably a vault, and a sketch of the house from 5 years ago shows the guards standing in the same spots as one from 2 months ago, in brown-and-green armor)
The Zenith just talked with the Dawn about wanting to take out the Mask and gave him a minor intimacy related to it.

So, my question is this: How do I deal with this Zenith? His plan, at the moment, is to go to every city in the Scavenger Lands and try and convince whoever runs the place that MoW is a serious threat and needs to be dealt with, and we've all told him how unlikely it is to work.

>>43901785
What does that solve? You just have your economist hand wave a solution and all the people everywhere accept it and follow it? Everyone in the nation will just change their long-held beliefs? No one in neighboring nations will be afraid that they'll be next?
This is why Exalted players are terrible. They think horribly complex issues should be solvable easily because /tg/ told them repeatedly that Essence 1 and 2 Solars should be capable of changing the world.
You can't have a game as high power as Exalted and also have realistic consequences for players' actions. That's how the devs imagine it in their pipe dream sessions, while ignoring reality. Either the ST enforces realistic consequences for player actions and the players cry that the game's too slow, they don't feel like exalts, they're skill 5 plus specialty so they should be able to just do anything with the skill. Or they get all of those things and the ST is just a pushover, a yes man to the players' freeform wank fantasy.

>>43887893

Admittedly this is one of my favorite pics from an RPG book ever.

Ironic how it also has Kitchen Sneak.

>>43901952
So basically the devs are dipshits and have put two things that are incompatible with each other like so many other things.

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>>43900197
>not wanting to abolish slavery
>not deriving satisfaction from the liberty of their fellow people

>>43902131
>putting your filthy humanist values in my poorly written social Darwinist Great Man theory game

>>43901952
>>43902106

Or, y'know, don't play with shitters.

I've never had this problem across all my Exalted groups, because I apply incredibly basic player filtering.

I've found that "You can't have a 5 in the same Attribute category that you have a 1 in." drives away most everyone who'd have problems with realistic consequences for fantastical power.

>>43902218

I fucking hate people who do things 5/5/1 a physical stat.

"What? 3/5/3? And get screwed on XP? lawl no"

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>>43902218
>realistic consequences for fantastic power
nWoD General is over that way, anon. Wipe the castemark off this guy and you'll be good to go.

>>43902251
It's ridiculous too, since you're not getting screwed on xp unless the other players did it.

>>43902251
What I don't understand is why direct the hatred towards people who understand basic fucking math and not towards the devs for still not putting in FLAT FUCKING XP.

Jesus christ. With the advent of Solar XP, it is now more important than EVER not to get caught with 3/5/3 or 2s in Abilities. Forcibly gimping players is not a solution, just flatten the goddamn costs.

>>43902286
every player should not be forced into a deliberate bad-math pact just to control the XP distribution five sessions in. that is not a desirable gamestate.

but i mean is anyone not using flat xp costs for real? literally every other onyx path game does why would you NOT

>>43902329

1) Flat XP makes advancement too fast at the high end. If you're gonna suggest "SO SIMPLE WHY DON'T THE DEVS JUST IGNORE HALF THE USE-CASE" solutions, at least suggest XPgen or "XP costs scaling by dots-bought-after-chargen, not current-dots," the latter of which is actually the one I prefer.

2) Solar XP--3e's XP-rich environment in general--REDUCES the need for chargen XP optimization, and I'm not sure how you could ever get the idea that it would have the reverse effect.

"If you don't do it this way, you'll be 30 XP behind!" "Uh, okay? We'll all have 70XP before we're even done with the first Story, who cares?"

>>43902363
>every other onyx path game does why would you NOT

Every other Onyx Path game also multiplied XP costs to the point that, even with flat advancement, growth is glacial.

If Exalted asked you 35XP for a single Charm you'd flip your fucking shit and yet everyone holds up GMC's XP as the second coming of Jesus Christ.

>>43902218
>implying you're not the shitter here who wants to do dev faggotry of "muh tragic god kings" in a gameline that can't handle naunce.

>>43901952
Well no, it isn't a super easily solved problem but it is addressing a specific aspect of the problem, the economic factor. Which with a proper application of Bureaucracy, the Ability very much about solving such problems, you could perhaps deal with that aspect.

But it wouldn't be a "roll dice, problem solved" it'd be a "roll dice, okay you now know how to steer the economy from a slave-based one to a whole new, everyone is free one. But you will likely run into problems because if the non-slave one was easier, they'd be doing that shit.

>>43902380
How the fuck is it too fast? It's the same speed, holy shit, for the same exact bonus. 1->2 is the same as 4->5 for almost all use cases exact stuff like "how much can you lift," which, let's not be cock-suckling retards about that.

XPgen is a good idea though, I wasn't trying to imply not XPgen, the BP/XP split is a big part of why this fucking problem exists. But it should still be flat, just award less than whatever the standard XPgen is, I want to say 500xp.

Solar XP massively accelerates the issue because you actually WILL buy traits now, when previously you just bought Charms because Strength 4->5 was never worth two and a half Melee Charms ever. Now you have XP that you're going to spend on Sorcery, MA, or trai...

...okay, I guess you still aren't buying traits. But you're CLOSER to making that decision.

30xp behind, by the way, is more than enough to guarantee a fight. Players don't directly compete against each other, but it makes a real difference in which Dawn gets to face off against the Dusk Caste and which Dawn is on flunky mop-up duty because she's short what she needs to go toe-to-toe in the climactic battle. If you don't think that kind of dick-measuring never comes up and leads to quiet resentment and detachment, or that it only happens to bad players because REAL roleplayers never CARE if they feel like they're equally impactful and valuable to the game as other players, well, you're cancer.

Basically I think it should be a fundamental design focus that in a game about playing heroes and demigods, no one ever ends up 30xp worth of narrative agency short.

>>43902403
It is the second coming of Jesus Christ, that's why. Glacial works just fine for those games - you don't have 55 Craft Charms, there are going to be either 1 or 5, and you can probably have three at character creation.

Also, people who haven't spent a lot of time with it seriously underestimate how fast you rack Beats for stuff like dramatic failure acceptance and resolving Conditions.

>>43902615
>How the fuck is it too fast?

It's too fast at the high end, where you're paying a fraction of the XP cost. "Becoming the greatest swordsman in the land" is no longer a meaningful growth-arc, it's... 3 sessions of XP and you're done.

>30xp behind, by the way, is more than enough to guarantee a fight. Players don't directly compete against each other, but it makes a real difference in which Dawn gets to face off against the Dusk Caste and which Dawn is on flunky mop-up duty because she's short what she needs to go toe-to-toe in the climactic battle.

Are you for fucking real? I guarantee you a 30XP differential is not the problem in that group. There are so many broken things in that scenario, and only one of them is a number.

> If you don't think that kind of dick-measuring never comes up and leads to quiet resentment and detachment, or that it only happens to bad players because REAL roleplayers never CARE if they feel like they're equally impactful and valuable to the game as other players, well, you're cancer.

There's a difference between "hey I feel like I'm not mattering as much as Jerry," which is a thing that can (and will, inevitably, even if everyone is good-faith) arise through a multitude of factors, the least of which is raw mechanical power, and "you have 3 fewer Charms than Jerry, so you just go pound sand over there, we'll let Jerry handle it," which is such a ridiculous notion.

>>43902615
>>43902715
I still like my method though it does require some work.

Everyone uses the set way to build characters. Then I go through and find everyone's XP values. I give everyone enough to catch up to the highest XP character, this extra XP cannot be used to buy Charms.

We then use the normal XP progression.

>>43900120
>wear clothes that are vaguely inspired by sailor outfits, but dresses.
>never heard of seifuku
It's a mutated Japanese school uniform you dim bulb.

>>43902218
>You can't have a 5 in the same Attribute category that you have a 1 in.

Yes because Charisma 5 Manipulation 1 Zenith can never exist right?

I mean its not like mythology and fiction is *filled* with holy men who could make the masses fall to their knees with their presence but would not or could not ever tell any lies or coerce people

>>43902842

Mythology is certainly filled with those people, they were just Charisma 4. Charisma 4 is already one of the best in the world, but Charisma 5 is the literal perfection of the human form, and I just don't buy that you could have PERFECT Charisma while also being a terrible liar.

Just like I don't buy that you could have PERFECT Dexterity (which, as it likes to point out, includes gross bodily movement) while having the stamina of an asthmatic or the strength of a nerd.

Attributes in each category do not exist in a vacuum, they are interrelated traits, and to that end, I think saying "You cannot achieve the literal pinnacle of this category while also having a gaping weakness in this same category" is fair.

>>43902329

Solar XP is a bandaid for expotential XP.

If I wanted to make my paragon of man character, who didn't use sorcery or artifacts, I'd cap out on shit so fast its not even funny.

I don't mind flat XP, but when paired with SXP it becomes insane.

>>43902363
You're not 'forced' into not taking 5/5/1, that's stupid. It isn't a bad math pact, that assumes that the best thing for everyone at the table is to get the highest numbers they can in the shortest time. This is a bad assumption.

>>43902942
1 isn't bad, it's just on the lower end of average.

>>43902715
>"Becoming the greatest swordsman in the land"

It was never and will never be meaningful. Melee 5 is a measure which every Melee-focused Exalt matches up to immediately at time of Exaltation. Choosing not to take it doesn't make your growth meaningful. You're a goddamn Exalt. Your 20 Melee Charms make you the greatest swordsman in the land.

>a 30xp differential is not the problem

It's the only problem. That's four MA Charms or spells. That's a tyrant lizard and the funds to feed and stable it. That's a whole chunk of development, narrative, and efficacy missing. It's like one player losing a hand, and then trying to pretend they're the same as the other players, who are often called upon to perform two-handed tasks.

> "you have 3 fewer Charms than Jerry, so you just go pound sand over there, we'll let Jerry handle it," which is such a ridiculous notion.

If those three Charms are Salty Dog Method, Graceful Crane Stance, and Mastery of Small Manners, sure, unless it's a diplomatic convention between pirates and a Realm outpost at sea. It's just limiting what KIND of challenges Jerry can confront, not their intensity.

If those three Charms are Flashing Edge of Dawn, Fervent Blow, and Over-and-Under Method, then yes, an epic scenario meant to push all the characters to their utmost might mean Jerry's mostly busy on keeping Kate's six clear. Maybe that's okay. Maybe Kate's been keking Jerry for years and he's used to it. Maybe Jerry is just there to be with his friends and he wouldn't want to take the spotlight from them anyway, because he's a utilitarian and knows he's not as into it.

Maybe not, though, and maybe it's just good practice to not fucking allow for those kinds of gaps when the solution is so goddamn EASY. You want for some fucking horrible reason Melee 5 to feel like a journey? Fine. Training times, training REQUIREMENTS, maybe you have to jerk off a pair of Fire Dragon sifus with each hand before you can advance. But flatten XP.

>>43901952

There's a difference between "Fighting to change something" and "freeform power wank."

Let's assume I did want to abolish slavery for some reason (I'd really want to pick another motivation, but lets say for some magical reason I do). I am not expecting the GM to roll out the red carpet for me, I am expecting things to be hard, but at the same time going "This will never change, fuck you, deal with it" is against one of the game's core premises. Grabrowski made the game on the premise that an ESS 5 circle of Solars should be able to do anything. He didn't say how easily or how hard, just that they had the potential.

If I wanted to play a game where nothing ever changes, I'd play 40K or WoD.

>>43902680

I dislike it for the same reason I dislike Fate, in that it encourages PC's to be generally terrible people

>>43902942
You not buying it doesn't mean you're not just being retarded, anon. The Buddha is Charisma 5, Manipulation 1 and he's real. High-end weightlifters are Strength 5, Dexterity 1 - lower than average flexibility and range of motion, difficulty modulating strength for very delicate tasks. Perception 1, Intelligence 5 is easy, everyone who needs glasses and is super-smart is there already.

Pinnacle achievement is fairly common on a planet with 7 billion people, let alone in mythology where it's basically expected. It's unnatural to not go 5/1, it's out of genre, and I'm sick of people defending it as reasonable. Mythic characters have gigantic mirths AND gigantic melancholies. They are ALL 5/1.

>>43903208
It works for every movie ever where things just Keep Going Wrong until they all go right at once, which is how FATE works, and horror games go better when things get fucked up and the zombies break down the barricade on occasion.

I've had no problems with that personally except players trying to wheedle bullshit failures/compels, in which case I just say "no," and nobody gets blown out over it because it's not a big deal and they can try again now or later.

>>43903214
I wouldn't say it's unnatural to not go 5/1 but I would certainly say it's not unnatural to go 5/1.

Ultimately it's a case by case basis. If you can justify it then by all means but if you're only doing it for the sweet XP anyone who knows what's up is going to get that feeling. And if you actually put in the effort to bullshit why you're selection makes sense, then guess what you just accidentally made a sensible character.

>>43903257

Generally I like it more when gaps and holes in my plans are made due to my mistakes(Be it rolling or IC planning) rather than taking a metagame bribe for a resource.

A compensation if my plan had a hole in it sure, but bribing players to intentionally make bad decisions makes them all feel like retards and/or assholes. Concept of "narrative tension" is thrown out the window when I know OOC that I knowingly did that choice. I'd rather have real tension, not fake ones.

>>43903390
In FATE, in my experience, it's usually more "and then this happens" rather than "and you really fuck up" unless the compel is such that fucking up is more of a "I can't maintain my cover if it means allowing this execution" kind of thing. DFRPG was my early FATE experience, and while those books have some problems, they are incredible examples of compels that don't feel like incompetence.

In WOD it's a little more like bad luck/black destiny/Murphy's Law than people being retarded. To borrow from Archer, something happens "just like that old gypsy woman said." It's about me as an ST getting to put my special dick into a willing player as she wriggles uncomfortably, not her having to choke and gag on the idiot ball. She gets her Beat, I get to inflict pain, everyone is very satisfied.

>>43903690

One thing I learned in gaming is that "and I really fucked up" shouldn't happen unless you either botched or missed MASSIVE areas in your plan. Most of the time a GM should go "...And your propaganda plan failed, the public is not willing to go with your treaty and your funding for military expansion is denied" rather than "...And your propaganda plan failed, it failed so badly that not only is your nation taking pains to disband its army into a self-defense force, but also to see you thrown out of power."

To me, if the latter problem happened due to a natural botch I'd be "SHIT! FIX IT FIX IT!", whereas if I was bribed to take a fate point or beat, I'd be going "...Eh, really needed the resource." I feel no tension when I activately choose OOC to go down this path.

The closest thing I'd say which felt like had actual bite to it in Fate Core is the extreme consequence. It isn't something that can be gone into by Fate Point bribing, but a willing acknowledgement OOC that you tried to risk it but got slapped down *hard* for fucking up massively/not knowing when to step down.

This isn't me shitting on fate forever. Hell I'd still play Trinixia if I had a chance, but at the same time its just one of my pet peeves about the system.

>>43903947
I've never had the tension problem because it's always been, like, okay you know how it's about to go bad but you don't know if you've gambled beyond your means. For example, you take a Compel because you have no patience for minutiae or you accept a complication to your extended Crafts roll in WoD, and the zombies break your barricade. You know that part.

Are you going to be eaten by zombies because you overestimated your escape strategy or ability to think on your feet? You don't know that part. Accepting a known bad with known consequence is definitely zero tension, but it's not hard to just make sure (even to the point of an explicit rule) that the total consequence stays in the scary unknown box.

How do you guys name Artifacts?

I'm hitting a block to name a few for my character.

>>43905522

I usually ask my Chinese or Japanese friends cool sounding weapon names and then use english versions.

Then again I often do the same to NPC's. I give them goofy names, such as one character named "Sock Puppet" in english. Only another PC at the game knew what the NPC's name meant in English.

>>43905661
I like that approach. I'll just run some synonyms through a translator and see what sticks

>>43900120
>Sailor Moon.
>Sailors in space sailing in their magical ship on the seas of the moon.

I would watch it.

>>43905831
>Season 2 has them going from planet to planet, from the outside of the Solar system
>missing earth because on the other side of the sun
>finally ends there though?
I fucking don't knkw

>>43906457
Or just trying to get back to the moon after a wormhole/FTL mishap or something.
On a ship not designed/made for that kind of a journey, so shit's real.

What are the character optimization guidelines to 3e? What's cheaper to buy in chargen than out of chargen?

>>43906584

Abilities by far.

Generally you want 5s in as many caste/favored as you want. Get 3s in stats you want to max out later but don't have the dots/BP for.

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>>43906584
Don't minmax. That's dumb. Take whatever fit's your character best.

However, some ass did do the math, pic related.

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>>43906692
I don't want to make a character that I thought could do all kinds of cool shit only to realize I didn't effectively make them able to do cool shit. I was going to spend BP on charms, now I'm glad I didn't. I was skimping on abilities. Thanks for the help.

>>43906709
Doing cool shit is not related to minmaxing at all, in fact most of the cool shit comes from you being a good roleplayer, and charms.

>>43906692
>doing math makes you an ass
Haah
Waaw

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>>43906726
>'Okay, I'm going to jump from this rooftop to the next.'
>'Do you have Monkey Leap technique?'
Mechanics are important, anon.

>>43906742
>no but I have 5 DEX and 5 Athletics
>"Good enough"

>>43906742
That's a fat Joey.
Did he eat Chandler or something?
Or is is Monica?

>>43906742
If you have enough Dex and Athletics then you don't need that. Generally speaking, 3 dots, 1 Essence Charm and Excellency are enough for most mundane tasks.

>>43901870

You've spoken about the Zenith here before, haven't you? He sounds like a real piece of work. The problem isn't convincing people that MoW is a threat, it's the fact that he's such a big threat that no-one has the man power to stand up to him. It'd easily require going to the nations which have the strongest military forces, solving basically every problem for that nation and focusing all of their resources into bolstering their already powerful armies.

Because you're siding with the strongest military nations, this is great for some moral dilemmas. You have to be a bastard and wipe out problem people by the thousands now, because if you don't MoW will do it by the hundred-thousand later.

Needless to say, taking on MoW is an Ess 5 endeavor, so make sure the Zenith has a lot of short-medium term goals so he doesn't get bored and start bitching.

>>43900120
So a Zenith?

>>43901870
Is that really all that happened on the second session? Did it really take that long for the Zenith to convince the Dawn and for the Night to scout out a place?

Why Mask of Winters, anyway? Is he being active in your game? Are there no other threats that currently need dealing with? If it's the latter, maybe he's just grasping at straws. Maybe throwing them a big bone might be in order.

>>43902164
But most of the Great Men are self destructive and terrible for everyone else in this game.

>>43908469
Aide from that, anyone calling Exalted a "social Darwinist Great Man theory game" should stop sniffing glue and read a book. Really, any book is bound to do that guy good. Exalted doesn't really have an in-built system of values - which doesn't mean it's inherently nihilistic or anything like that, just that the players are supposed to to think for themselves what's right and what's wrong and whether they give a shit about that - but when the values of the writers come through in the official material, it's generally in the form of modern, humanistic values, not "social Darwinism" of any sort.

>>43908513
Ok holden

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>>43908572
>bluhbluhbluh I don't have a rejoinder so I'm just going to shitpost.

>>43908513
There's a very good argument that the Bronze Faction is right and the world would be much safer without the Solars running things too.

Kejak did nothing wrong (except maybe when he dropped the ball during the Great Contagion)

>>43908593
>Frogposting

Kill your self

>>43908572
Shitposting does not count as an argument, anon. If you disagree with something, just say what is it you disagree with and why.

>>43908612
>There's a very good argument that the Bronze Faction is right and the world would be much safer without the Solars running things too.
Sure, but it's not an argument the game itself makes. It's not an unarguable truth, it's a point of view that can be argued for and against.

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>>43908618
I'm sorry for not treating le epic ok ____ meme with the respect and gravitas that it deserves.

>>43908648
Maybe next time you'll know better and respond with "Ok Strength of Many": Please don't actually do it. This meme is the shittiest Exalted-related thing in years, worse than worst piece of Poser art in the backer PDF, worse than Holden and Morke combined.

>>43908671
I used to do it, but I concluded it amounted to the same shit anyways.

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>>43908648
>LoGH image

>>43908646
The fact that it can be argued kind of establishes it as more than just a power fantasy.

>>43908714

Not really because this is all the NPCs fucking up before the PCs enter and show them how them how it's done

>tfw you have a question but the thread is on autosage
>Now have to wait till the thread finally dies and a new one gets made to ask it

Dammit thread, just die already.

>>43908791
I don't know who you game with, but my PCs often fuck things up for people pretty bad in between beating up bad guys.

>>43907735
Yeah, I have. I've also told him it's an E5 thing, but he still got buttmad about keeping his Minor Tie: Mask of Winters(Hatred) on a character who has to ask someone else to explain to him the exact details of what's going on in Thorns.
At this point, if I can't quell his autism before he leaves Great Forks, I'll probably just make it really difficult to actually convince any of the other nations to help him, for the specific reason that even WITH all the soldiers in the Scavenger Lands, tackling MoW is going to be a massively uphill battle.
>>43907836
>basically
The Zenith also went to talk to an old friend of his for info about the house, but he didn't get anything because he asked the vaguest questions imaginable about it. The Dawn spent the entire session doing nothing because he doesn't want to do anything that isn't DIRECTLY related to his character.
A large part of the reason not much happened, though, is I kept getting distracted by other people trying to talk to me outside of the game.

>Why Mask of Winters, anyway? Is he being active in your game?
He hasn't done anything at all yet, to the players' knowledge.
>Are there no other threats that currently need dealing with?
They've got a cult worshiping a Second Circle Demon and killing people and a Fair Folk possibly kidnapping people that they could tackle, which I let them know about before the first session even started because it's local news.
>If it's the latter, maybe he's just grasping at straws. Maybe throwing them a big bone might be in order.
If they even stay in the city past the Night checking out/robbing the house, I'm planning to kill off the mortal they helped in the first session and use his death to springboard them into checking out the demon cult.