GOD-TIER PANTHEON

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>>43845878
So part of the idea is also that the on-mark gods are generally the Major Gods, and the in between gods are generally Minor Gods. There can be exceptions, but that's the general concept.

For now lets focus on the domains and the god's position, over the specifics.
I'd also like to avoid on-the-nose gods, like gods of war or piece. You could argue a god of conquest though, and then it could have war-like themes, but it's not literally the god of catapults and swordsmanship.

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>>43845923
some of my initial thoughts, as example s

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>>43846052
I will now be periodically bumping with art, and/or speculative assertions/insinuations.

>>43846052
You clearly have some thoughts about how these concepts relate to allignments already but I find many of them disagreeable.

I'm not sure that ruin as a concept is all that orderly. Both conceptually and on an entropic level, destruction reduces things to chaos.

I think that invention is also commonly considered chaotic, if only because creativity seems chaotic. I also think that Secrets should be very high on order and roughly neutral on just/cruel.

Sea/Storms is dead on and I like it.

Conceptually, just should be neutral and there should be kind or benevolent as the opposite of cruel, unless you're trying to generate a super grimdark edgelord setting.

I always like the concept of a god of Luck, a very chaotic but ultimately leaning on the kind/benevolent side. If that's too standard for you, consider a God of Superstition. Very high order but rewards/punishes disciples in random/chaotic ways.

God of Dreams is a romantic theme, though perhaps somewhat generic. Maybe stories? Like a bard deity. I'd make a god of stories cruel and vain but I think a more standard route would send up an Athena/Apollo style heroic figure or a Dionysus-esque frat boy/party animal.

Insofar as just and order is considered, a god of Arete is a good candidate, perhaps. Or language: greeks thought that and math were the two gifts given to mankind.

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>>43846382
I feel you.
My reasoning is that Just gods are generally helpful and fair, while Cruel gods are greedy and... cruel.
However, Just gods can be mean to things they disagree with, and Cruel gods can be spitefully helpful, tricked, or helpful as a means to a selfish end.
Ruin, I consider an inevitability, but on that same not it is totally something beyond control; though it can be done on purpose.

>>43846492
Perhaps a god of wisdom? Or reason?

Can't have a pantheon based on concepts without throwing Hope in there.
Maybe Chance/Luck as well?

>>43846608
WWII killed any kantian hope of reason leading to what is good, intrinsically. Wisdom might have a better chance, though.

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I tried

>>43846052
>>43846608
Maybe a god of the land/Earth/stone to oppose the god of seas. They're more orderly and just, but neither are in the extreme; the land can still refuse to grow crops and can still change or have earthquakes.

A god of freedom as the Just-Neutral. They mean well for all, but they don't mean to guide them towards group order or chaos. They could encompass both literal freedom and free-will.

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>>43845878
You should base them off patterns in cognition. Here's some examples I made.

>Flight or Fight / Terror / The Hunted and Persecuted

This would be a cool aspect for a god. A god for people dealing with crisis, most popular amongst soldiers, the poor and criminals and invoked in times of high stress.

>Order / Rulership / Hierarchy / Absolutism and Inflexibility

This'd also make a neat concept, basically all religions are reflections of their societies structure rather than the other way around. This god is a conservative and reactionary god, the entity that makes things stay as they are, but also represents line where stasis and righteousness get blurry.

>Outrage / Conspiracy / Reductionism

It's the god of telling people they're WRONG on the INTERNET! Basically the impulse to try to explain all negative aspects of society to the actions of a specific group. God of revolutionaries and counter revolutionaries, from SJWs to /pol/, from ISIS to Trump to Sanders. It's not important to this god whether they're entrenching or overthrowing the current order, just that someone is being opposed and hated. Popular among everyone, but particularly important during crisises.

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>>43846791
>>43846758
>>43846733
>>43846662
Round ....4?

>>43846662
What would a god of Hope be, other than the god of giving really good pep-talks?

>>43846856
Forgot to add - I think it'd be better to make the spectrum Communal to Individual and Stasis to Change rather than rehashing good/evil and order/chaos. Those themes have been done to death in fantasy, don't leave room for moral relativism and tend to make settings feel less diverse and more derivatives.

>>43846758
Hope's listed there twice. Is that intentional?

>>43846883
I think you could also argue that a god of hope would also be determination and belief/faith, with the darker side being false hope and misguided faith/fanatacism.

>>43846887
>>43846856
A god of... woe? or... idk, I can't thik of a good word for being downtrodden; other than persecuted. Like, a god that's in charge of seeing you through tough times/making it known you need aid/aren't playing the victem? I like that.
>>43846946
-it could be the relative god of hope. The god in charge of making sure you get the help you need/aren't punished for something out of your control. Less judgement/punishment, more the god of comeuppances and dues. Like a god of fair-play, but less lame-sounding.
I'd want a word for it.

Stasis v Change is pretty synonymous with Order v Chaos, or at least as I intend them.

>>43846883
Make one of the Just / Chaos gods the God of Homosexuality.

>>43846883
Sorry to bring up Homestuck, but Homestuck has a really good thing on that. The aspect of hope is about imposing your will on reality through belief, so gods of hope can almost bend reality to their will.

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>>43847018
Oh my...

>>43846608
Ah we interpret Justice in very different ways then. To me a Just individual does exactly what he or she ought to do. Charity is not just because, by definition, it is giving someone something that they do not deserve.

Cruelty is hurting people that don't deserve it, Kindness is helping people that don't deserve it. Just/Order is doing exactly what people deserve.

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>>43846980

Hrm... well a god for those who are in for being persecuted over the long haul would probably be linked to Futility / Self-Fulfilling Prophecies / Endurance. As in you might as well not try, but we're too far on the side of order/stasis for you to actually succumb and see things collapse, so you just endure your fate.

So its a god of stoicism and duty / fate, with an general grim/tragic theme.

... oh shit, it's the god of 40K.
Also; I think of stasis v change as different from order and chaos because of little ambiguities. People tend to associate preservation with order where I see stasis as things running their natural and probably course. Change isn't just the fact that things change, it's people actively going against what is natural/probable. So building a civilization instead of living as tribals is Change, but trying to preserve it indefinitely through the natural cycles of growth and collapse isn't Stasis... idk, I'm tired.

>>43847055
Hope is wanting something to happen
Belief is thinking something WILL happen

I guess hope and faith are kind of synonymous but it's a pretty significant distinction. Redundant as it sounds, a god of faith would be closer to what you're describing.

Maybe rather than Just/Cruel it would be Just/Arbitrary. Cruel implies undeserved hurt, while arbitrariness can hurt or harm and is more fundamentally opposed to justice being what is deserved.

>>43847333
Just/Arbitrary and Stasis/Change would be a good system!

It's based on what people think should happen so different societies can share alignments while having differing morals, and on natural/probable vs unnatural/improbable change in the future so things can either reach their destiny or get shook the fuck up.

All in all, a setting with that kind of alignment dynamic could see conflicts within a shared alignment that aren't trivial to resolve (you'll see a gray area, and people won't just disagree because they're corrupt or misinformed) and you can either have characters/groups stalwartly prevent the world from sliding into chaos or spit in the eye of fate and avert a terrible destiny.

11/10 would read, play in or masturbate to.

>>43847333
I strait up mean for Cruel gods to do things out of spite though. Not all of them all of the time, but many of them a lot of the time.
I don't mean for all gods of any particular alignment to behave the same way; not even in similar ways nessisarily. They're very broad brackets, for the sake of discussion/planning, that don't really need to be tunned or tweaked, because the chart probably won't actually be in the game; the god's dogmas and taboos will just gide the player's actions in a similar fasion, based on the intended bheavior.

>>43846933
Yes.

>>43846883

Okay so besides professional interrogators who the fuck would pray to the god of punishment?

>>43848057
them... like inquisitors... cops... people who feel like someone out there's got some shit coming their way they aint getting and are like, "YO, FUCK THIS GUY UP ALREADY! WHAT GIVES!?"

>>43848080>>43848057
So should we try and flesh out some of these gods

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>>43848574
If you want. Any and all forms of brain-storming are more than welcome.

>>43848695
Well i think death should be in the center I never think of death as a cruel god he is just doing is job of letting mortals rest before sending them back out into the world. Also did these gods come from prayers of mortals or did they all come from another god creating them

>>43848799
Death don't take do-overs and IOUs though; it's absolution is it's cruelty. Cruel doesn't necessarily mean malicious in this case; but uncompromising, absolute, pleasurable, undesirable, are all equally as applicable as malice.

This chart is mainly for the sake of organizing ideas and concepts for the sake of descusion; I doubt that gods will be organized in such a trivial fashion in the final product; unless somewhere along the way I think of some bitching alignment mechanis I want to impliment.

>>43848964
hmm true so if we are just using this too get god ideas out how about a god of mana with how prevelent it is in most settings feels like there should be a god for it

>>43849155
a god of mana doesn't really make sense to me, as mana is life-force in most settings, or raw energy at least. That'd be like having a god of free will.

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My idea was the outer layer are primordial beings (ones that passively effect the world), the next layer in are their children (the gods whom interact with mortals far more), the center layer contains the mortal races and their alignment scale.

Divine beings having far more awareness and potential in facets of beings (kinda like elder vs humans in 40k)

>>43849596
I always saw it as energy, Mana in its default state is a force of chaos since it has potential too be everything in exsistence all it lacks is direction for it too become something so the god would not be free will he be creation shaping the mana too whatever his goal is. Could make a argument that he is not a god but a insanely powerful wizard who just happened too find a shit ton of mana but by that point he could hardly be called human

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>>43849735
you... I like you; that is tight as fuck, I'm stealing that premise.

>>43846608
You have failed already by not having Death as the pinnacle of Just and Order. Coming fairly to all men, regardless of circumstance or status, to deliver what they have always had coming.

>>43848964
>Cruel doesn't necessarily mean malicious in this case
Then you are using the wrong word.

>>43850222
Checked and go for it man happy to help

>>43850395
This shows the flaw in categorizing aspects of life in neat boxes; they are all very subjective.
Would an island nation that gains its wealth from oversea trade see the sea as cruel? They would probably separate sea from storm, and see it in a favorable light.
Then, another civilization, spared twice from being invaded by a fleet of a greater kingdom by a storm might even see STORM as just.

Cruelty is not even the opposite of justice. Injustice is. One can be cruel and just, or unjust and kind.

>>43852148
>>43850395
Like I've said before, the end-game likely won't have alignments in it mechanically, and if there is a god-wheel it'll just have the related to their neighboring concepts thematically, not by who's more Lawful-Good than who. This is just for organizing ideas.
...I should actually make it into a wheel and take the labels off; brb.

>>43850222
Just like OP stole it from the Romans/Greeks.

>>43845878

This is what I used in an oneshot, might work with some tweaking:

NASTY AND SPOOKY:
The Destroyer: Lord of slaughter, destruction and mindless carnage. Appears as a red-skinned brute howling in fury and bearing a battleaxe.

Lady Lament: Goddess of Misfortune and failure. Appears as a weeping, black-haired woman with a broken sword and a withered bouquet of flowers.

The Despoiler: The goddess of decay, deceit and dishonest work. Appears as a skeletal, withered young woman with a bloody knife in her hands.

The Leviathan: The god of natural disasters, the abyss and unburied dead. Appears as a terrible sea-beast of many eyes and mouths.

The Collector: The god of disease, famine and poverty. Appears as a gaunt figure riding a sickly horse with a scythe and a heavy bag full of lost souls.

Venal: The vengeance, corruption and tyranny. Appears as a regal man clad in black with a crown of jagged iron, holding a long blade in judgment.

The Queen of Winter: The goddess of winter and the fear of wild and unknown places. Appears as a beautiful, statuesque queen clad in white furs and surrounded by malicious, white wolves with bloody teeth and claws.

The Lord of Riots: The god of anarchy, evil urges and excess. Appears as a handsome man splattered in blood standing in a roaring pyre.

The Adversary: The god of temptation, of hasty action, criminals and prejudice. Appears as a young man beckoning to follow him.

The Keeper: The god of forbidden knowledge, black magic and self-interest. Appears as a black raven.

>>43852777

The Goods
The Lord of Battles: God of War, Strategy and honorable combat. Appears as a towering man clad in plate armour and a helmet that conceals his face, wielding a greatsword, attended by spectral squires.

Onnetar: Goddess of Fortune and Heroes, appears as a beautiful, blonde lady clad in a white dress holding a longsword and a laurel wreath.

Forgemaiden: The goddess and patron of artisans and craftsmen. Appears as a smiling woman holding the tools of all trades.

Old Man of the Sea: The god of Storms, the Sea and Seafaring. Appears as an old man with a wet beard and hair full of seaweed, holding either a net full of the ocean's bounty or a lightning bolt ready to strike.

The Harvester: The god of Farmers, the harvest, of hearth, home and the guide of the dead. Appears as a friendly, strong peasant man with a sickle and a lantern.

Accord: The god of trade, wealth, justice and law. Appears as a stern statue of a man with an outstretched hand, while the other one holds a tome of law.

The King of the Wild Hunt: The god of hunt, forests, the wilds and wild animals. Appears as a green-skinned giant of a man with antlers, a hunting spear and a pack of wolflike hunting hounds.

The Reveler: The god of drink, music, passion and merriment. Appears as a cheerful young man with a full tankard of wine and lute.

The Wanderer: The god of the lost, of travel and patron of outcasts. Appears as a weary old man with a cane and a long, white beard.

The Archivist: The god of wisdom, knowledge and secrets. Appears as a faceless man dressed in brown robes and bearing a candle.

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>>43852585
Badaboom.

>>43852648
The romans stole it from the greeks, and the greeks, who stole it from the mountain men; who none know of.

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>>43852876
one shot
I am still monitoring this thread, just FYI

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>>43854714

no god of luck?
there should be a god of luck

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>>43855615

>>43856607
>>43855615
Several people have suggested a god of luck. However, the only Luck god I'm familiar with, in fiction anyway, is Prattchet's god of luck in the Discworld, which is a gag-god (like every other god). I'm down for silly gods, but what would a god of luck be other than some Loki/Pan/Bacchus-tier shenanigans?

>>43857288
a god of Luck could give you anything, but probably won't

>>43857288
a god of luck could go a lot of ways i guess. one one end of the spectrum he could be a wild gambler, or on the other he could be an intellectual who masters the powers of probability

>>43857424
would a god of odds not be the opposite of a god of luck?

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I'll dump my gods folder if you want

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>>43858285

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>>43858303

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>>43858357

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>>43858371

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>>43858395

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>>43858409

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>>43858422

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>>43858445

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>>43858464

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>>43858492

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>>43858516

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>>43858541

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>>43858601

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>>43858624

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>>43858652

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>>43858669

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I've always liked the idea of the gods in a setting being humans who've been infused with the very essence of the divinity in question. The greatest magician gets the boon of the god of magic etc, and their body slowly withers away because no one can handle so much power for long

I like giving Gods multiple domains that tie together like the god of death also being the God of acceptance and regret.
Or a god love who is also a god of hate( a god of passion really)

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>>43858966
I like the idea of Gods battling each other, doing untold amounts of damage with their insane power to the mortal realm and meanwhile not giving a fuck about the humans. At first it's small but as time goes on and they unleash their true power. the world slowly crumbles under their immense divinity.

>>43859238
So... Asura's Wrath?

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>>43859301
That, Man of Steel (in a sense) and Wrath of the Titans.

While I'm not sure if it would help you, I thought I would throw out an idea I'm using in a campaign of mine.

The idea is basically that a Ragnarok situation or something occurred in the distant past, and all the major gods were wiped out. This left lesser, minor gods to pick up the pieces. So you have what were once minor, niche deities now commanding way more power than they used to. Like a god of small birds is now one of the major gods of the sky, or a goddess of spiders is not the mother goddess of fate.

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