/HHG/ - Horus Heresy General - WIP Edition

>>43831433
I posted some FAQ comments on the tail end of the last thread which I'm pretty sure got missed, so here's a repost.

Not bad, I can think of a few areas that need work.

- Emphasise near the beginning that Crusade Legions is a different army from 40K Marines in a similar way to different non-Codex chapters, or the two types of Eldar. Certain models can be exchanged between these similar and related groups but the majority should keep in their own lists. This needs spearheading into the naive audience so they'll take the time to read the specifics (take rhinos, don't take Mk 7) in the small print, whereas they can easily skip the understated point at the moment. We're talking people that can have an answer five times in a thread and miss it.

- I have maybe once, maybe never seen someone actually discuss homebrew legions. It might have come up as a point of conversation but not the centrepiece. I've not seen any newbies talking about it either. Seeing that near the top of the FAQ might give some of them the wrong impression, so I'd remove that.

- The financial aspect is tangential to the winnowing of newcomers in these threads. The saving presented by Battle of Calth is what has drawn so many new guys here, but not the reason why people who have been around longer are testing and poking them. The answer is that people are making lazy and frivolous assumptions about the game and system that we didn't make when we took interest. The first thing we did was look up the rules, take some downloads, pour over the changes in the system and read a few summaries on 1d4chan or elsewhere. We didn't get involved in the conversation until we knew what Volkite meant or why Rites of War were such a big deal. There's an attitude among a vocal segment of the new crowd that thinks it IS the conversation, and that's cancer for a general thread. To all the non-vocal newcomers who are researching and learning before they talk, good on you. You're goodposters.

1/2

>>43831433
- "But I don't like Forgeworld" should be it's own question, and the answer should be tough. Forgeworld is the reason why everything about 30K is good - models, rules for fun, rules for balance, fluff, presentation, tone - and the reason why many of us are here instead of 40K. If you're interested in the Horus Heresy as just another avenue of 40K, you'll have to adapt, and that includes stuff like prices. Forgeworld is crucial to 30K and if your first reaction is "Ugh but why", 40K is the game for you.

- People aren't asking what units are good/strong/cheap. Furthermore the excellent advantage of 30K over 40K is that it's much more balanced within itself, and this should be stressed before any other response on balance. Lastly, there are very specific duff units that aren't worth taking in 30K, and linking to an entire complete army analysis doesn't help this. Duff units should be listed in the FAQ precisely because people don't read the long summary or think about prices and values before they pick their units - then they expect them to be at least equal to other armies and get a nasty surprise, 3 large units of Justaerin suck balls.

So this is the better question: "I'm not looking too heavily at the rules before I get into this but I don't want an army that completely sucks/is unsalvageable, are there any units I should avoid?". We then list Justaerin, Recon Squads, Company Champions and so on.

With those adjustments, the FAQ will be perfect.


And on an irrelevant note:

>>43829291
Those gay faces, who the fuck is GW appealing to now?

Why don't marketers realise that if you don't appeal to the core group that made a company, they leave?

USE GOOGLE BEFORE YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION UNLESS IT'S AN ADVANCED QUESTION

>>43831519

Only faggots read BL so I'm assuming they're appealing to homosexuals.

If I want to get into 30k and I haven't read the novels, is that a bad thing?

I've heard from multiple sources that they are terrible.

I get the impression that everyone here who isn't a calthy has read them.

>>43831519
>>43831506
Will do. There were those 2 guys asking about home brew legions, so I put that there. I'll move it down.

>>43831519
There's a pretty eloquent breakdown in the 40k thread about why GW is pushing for higher margin and lower sales volume. The problem with 40k (and RPGs) core groups is that they don't buy nearly as much as someone who recently got into the hobby and need an entire army plus tools and paint. You stay in too long you get savvy about buying from eBay, recasters, paint from other companies, etc.

>>43831672
Why don't you try reading the novels for yourself and making an informed opinion? If you're afraid anons are going to call you a faggot, just stick to the Forge World Horus Heresy books.

>Calthy
A what? Are you seriously trying to make that a term?

>>43831672
No-one has read the novels. Very few people have read them all.

From what I gather, they are a mix of terrible and pretty good.

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>>43831519

They look like they fit 40k to me, particularly the Sister. The only thing that appears to be missing is a top knot, though she could be a Null Maiden.

>>43831672

>I've heard from multiple sources that they are terrible.

Outside of any literary criticism, I've the feeling a lot of people who say the HH books are terrible do so because things aren't exactly the same as shit that was written decades ago.

BL and FW are basically looking at the same thing from different angles.

>>43831703

And then you start to whine and bitch about the conditions you yourself created. They were right, GW games do turn you into a huge faggot!

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>>43831433
>So what's everyone working on?

Put together a Dreadnought Drop Pod for a game this weekend. Holy shit was it a pain in the ass. I had to shim the bottom two pieces otherwise the doors would not open. The model itself is pretty awesome looking once it's all together. Just waiting on some magnets to arrive so I can magnetize the pod doors closed.

>>43831672
The majority of people who say it's shitty never read past the middle books, which were the worst. The more recent ones, and more importantly the short story anthologies are where quality tends to be a bit better. People love to hold up the first three books as the best, yet having recently read through them again, it's so clear that they were written to be standalone and really clash with both the FW HH books and the newer books that are good.

>>43831707
>A what? Are you seriously trying to make that a term?
better than calling them BaC newfag cancer

>>43831764

BL writing is atrocious. There's no two ways about it. If you universally enjoy BL writing, you are 100% guaranteed to be some corny, cringe-worthy faggot.

I cracked one BL marine novel and couldn't get past page 2 due to all the cringing and how shitty it was. And the only thing that happened was the narrator describing the rain bouncing off the marine.

>>43831805
Have you thought instead of just avoiding that author? There are plenty of better ones.

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>>43831805

Fair enough.

Again though, I seriously doubt it's a case of 40k fans having a refined literary palette and more "This doesn't match up with a five word sentence that was scribbled in the margins of a book 15 years ago REEEEEEEEEEEE."

>>43831433
>So what's everyone working on?
Trying to buy a Dracosan, a Lasrife section and a quad mortor off chinaman to beef up my auxilia

>>43831802
New people getting into HH don't need to be categorized, especially with some stupid bastardized word. If they're new and cancer, it'll be evident from their posts. If they're new and actually read the FAQ and don't ask stupid questions, well you won't really know they're new will you?

>>43831586
Plainly, but the question is are faggots a more lucrative market than non-faggots?

>>43831672
The novels are very hit and miss, and don't reflect on the models or game.

>>43831697
Cheers pal.

>>43831703
That analysis is very far from new or relevant to more specific concerns.

>>43831764
There's no sister in the image I linked, what are you talking about.

>>43831857

BL probably soured most people before the HH novels/30k system even began.

Back when the game was in like 4E and earlier, when there wasn't such a huge deluge of content, people loved BL because it was more stuff to read. Same with White Dwarf and other little random 40k things.

Betrayal at Calth isn't the only reason a lot of people are only joining just now.

Most people in my group were waiting for FW to finally print some fucking transfers for the Book 3 legions.

>>43831928
The write up on Black Library even says it's a Deathwatch marine on the left and a Sister of Silence on the right.

>>43831802
Exactly one person in the last two threads has used terms like that and myself and others shot him down immediately as defeating the point. We don't need special nicknames like a cult.

>>43831928
>but the question is are faggots a more lucrative market than non-faggots?

It's hard to say, but we do know that faggots buy expensive personal care goods just like women in their quest to look FABULOUS, and we also know that the typical GW non-faggot barely spends money on GW at all, preferring only to whine, buy recasts, or cheap eBay deals, so I can see how GW came to the conclusion to fag it up.

>>43831954
Oh. OH. I get it.

Well, there's the target audience identified.

>>43831956

I just call them poorfags. HAHA!

I kid, but Mk IV really is ugly. Get some real power armor, you Mickey Mouse faced faggots.

>>43831954
I had to stare long and hard at that picture to convince myself that was a woman...

>>43832003
It's a Sister of Silence not a fucking super model.

>>43831880
>>43831956
Was thinking more like a casual racist slur
>fkin calthy, bet u cant even afford a spartan m8!

>>43831975
True although I meant the broader meaning of the term faggot.

In truth the lowest common denominator is always the most lucractive target market - numerous, faddish, suggestible, and although individually flighty there's always more in the rotation. It's just that a company can't afford to piss off the core that actually made it something. Some companies never do this, others have blips and troughs (I'm thinking Valve and Nintendo from video gaming). 'Workshop though is one long slow death.

I mean you've got to hand to the company because it's still around way longer than anyone could have anticipated. But their ice just gets thinner.

>>43832000
Yeah, I have no idea what you're trying to do with this post. If it's just opinion then there are a million ways to voice that don't involve calling people faggots like we're on /b/ in 2007. If it's an attempt at humour, no.

>>43832060

If your Spartan didn't come with separate tracks, you're a faggot.

inb4 but i don't have a spartan

>>43832025
The image we're discussing is the most model-esque Sister of Silence I've ever seen. Blanche's artwork and its derivatives make the sisters look nasty.

>>43832060
We gathered. It's pointless, just stop.

>>43832085
General /HHG/ reminder: Don't engage the trolls.

>>43832085

Not the same guy. Just call BaC initiates newfags. There's no need to create a category for them. Nobody called AoBR or DV new players anything special.

>>43832124

But muh speshul club!

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>>43832121

I actually think the Sisters look kind of nice in their art. Of course I also like the buzzcut on the new piece of art.

>>43832123
No, that's a general 4chan reminder. But that guy is a post-hoc troll at most, he's just very out of place.

>>43832124
Like I already said, we don't need a special term. Newcomers is enough. Don't call them newfags.

>>43832152
Okay, now we're going to ignore you.

>>43832195
>newfag
>special term

Get the fuck out, newfag.

>>43832160
Well that piece there is probably the second-nicest I've ever seen.

Everything Blanche chiefly designs looks grody. It really works for Sisters of Silence. They're not your mom, they're not your girlfriend or grandma or daughterfu. They're harpies of the mind.

>recast buying poorfags who started playing 30k in 2014 think they control the general

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>>43832232

I think it's about half and half for me, I've seen some Sister art by Blanche that looks like they could be attractive under the mask.

Is the fellblade a good Superheavy? I want a huge tank for my legion and Ive been wondering if I should get a Baneblade variant or a Fellblade, Typhon looks boring as shit.

>>43832330

Yeah it's pretty good, but it's expensive. Worth the points, but it just costs more than other options. It can also be killed with some average effort, so you have to protect it.

So, to get some actual discussion besides Calthposting going, what's your Horus Heresy OTP?

>>43832226
Dude, just stop.

>>43832325
Maybe, but I wouldn't consider that piece an example. Small, wide-set eyes.

>>43832453

No, you stop. Stop fucking posting and lurk the fuck more if you don't even recognize basic 4chan terms.

>>43832475

I\m sorry that you struggle to have friends in real life, but trying to make everything your special elite club isn't a substitute.

>>43832475
Yadda yadda tryhard look at me I'm an edgelord too. Yawn. If you don't want a reasonable discussion don't start flinging shit. If you want a shitfling, go away.

I'm a BaCfag that's asking for a Spartan for Christmas. Invictarus Sezurian Squads will be purchased with my own money down the road. Am I doing it right? I don't want to associate myself with these shitters that have been coming over from the 40k general.

Something that I have been wondering for a while about the Horus Heresy books. Are there any Political drama ones?

I mean, if there is one thing that I learned studying History in College, it's that, there is no such thing as "Only War" because of political stuff. And there are usually more interesting stories that went on in the political side of things, rather than the war.

When I say Political, I mean, stuff like, the different Primarchs dividing up their legions share of the galaxy. Potential Negotiation with the more advanced Alien Races and Techno-barbarians. Non-Astarte related things with local governments of planets effected by the recent invasion by the Imperium. Mass relocations for Mutants and Abhumans. Maybe one of the Primarchs having to take a political marriage in order to easily take control of a large region of space.

Is there anything like that?

>>43832625
You'll find examples of this in the FW HH books. The BL books tend to be much more character focused whereas the FW books are written like history books.

In addition, the new Beast Arises series is expected to deal with a lot of political turmoil on Terra, considering an Assassinorum coup occurs within that time period.

>>43832573

No, seriously, you go away. You are painfully new to this board.

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>>43832564
>>43832573

Fuck off, newfags. This is why all the 30k generals are shit lately, because of you fucking ignorant dipshits.

>>43832625
You'll also get a lot of examples of this in the FFG supplements for Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader, it just occurs in M41 instead.

>>43832801

>you have to use my memes guys, it's called newfag becuz 4chan!

Fuck off.

Alright, now that everyone has gotten the shit out of their systems. What Legions are represented in your area? My group plays every army with rules except Raven Guard. Not sure why no one is interested in the RG.

>>43832952

My area has almost exclusively traitors with the exception of one Salamanders player.

So many people like Death Guard here, we have two players already with many more expressing interest in playing them, Word Bearers also seem popular.

I'm starting Raven Guard because I love their fluff and rules and we kind of need more loyalists.

>>43833012
Yeah my group has 4 DG players. not sure why they're so popular. I play IW and Mechanicum.

>>43832806
I'm fine with M41, It's just that, I assumed that there would be nothing of substance from that era, where I imagine the politics are very devolved, with most forms of government being localized and the High Lords of Terra having very little say in most systems.

>>43832195

im one of those guys who just clicks on the first image on the front of 4chan so this is the first time i have ever posted on this board but you are being retarded....calling someone a newfag isn't an insult it's an identifier. Why the fuck do you want to come up with ANOTHER name when one will do perfectly fine; and why do you have to correct someone when we all already know what he means?

>>43833039
Death Guard slug through filth and shit on a regular basis. It's relateable for the average wargamer.

>>43832849
>literally being this stupid

>>43833083
It is localized. But when you stop caring about the extremely superficial setting in 40k and zoom down to the individual sector-level, there's all sorts of interesting political intrigue. But people don't understand how to adjust sense of scale.

I'm going to paint up Unification Wars-era Imperial Fists because goddamn does yellow suck.

>>43833363
Honestly, the grey with yellow stripes looks pretty good.

>>43833363
You're using MK2 right?

What a horrible thread

>>43833621
I agree, some old fag edgelords hurr durr i played rogue trader or 2nd edition calling everyone who posts a faggot. You realize you dont have a growing cheap game without these new people? Hostility, calling everyone a faggot, or being a dick is going to kill any chance of community. This is /tg not /b.

>>43832226
>>43832475
>>43832801

Oh god, you talk like some fucking idiot who read an article about "4chan culture." This isn't /b/. >>>/r/4chan

>>43833621
I agree, this was a nice place two weeks ago. All these pro and contra BaC retards keep fucking up every thread. What can't we just leave it with it being a nice, cheap compulsory troop filler. FW's Mk.4 is another world compared to the new set, but the new set was too good to pass up.

>>43832226
>>43832475
>>43832801
>trying this hard to fit in
This is /tg/, it's pretty damn clear you have no clue how we do things around here. Tossing around the term newfag doesn't make you some esteemed member of the community. It just marks you out as a jackass.

So do yourself a favor and fuckoff. Try lurking around instead of making an ass of yourself.

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I just tried out painting some Night Lords for a kill team I'm making. I'm new to painting marines (Ork player). I'm using regular CSM models with loyalist packs, because elongated power packs that match no marks of power armor set off autism I didn't even know I had. I'm pretty pleased with the result. I kind of like painting marines. I figured I'd practice on these before I get models for my 30k army. I'd try and figure out a way to stick these guys in, but CSM all have fake, made-up marks of armor and fucking arrows all over everything, so they'll stay in 41M where they belong.

>>43834691
>but CSM all have fake, made-up marks of armor and fucking arrows all over everything
>posts blatantly visible, if ornate, Mk2 arms and Mk6 legs

>>43834354
>>43834435

The fact that you think people don't say the word newfag on /tg/ shows how new YOU are.

>telling people who tell you to lurk more to lurk more

Rich. These generals are unsalvagable.

>>43834354
>>>>/r/4chan
>>43834435
>trying this hard to fit in

Irony.

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Boy gee golly I sure wish these threads weren't filled with shitposting newfags. Thanks Betrayal at Calth!

What would you guys like to see in the Prospero book? I'm not very big into Wolfy Wolf or K Sons lore, but I imagine we will see some big deviations from the standard handful of special rules, a couple of named character's, a primarch and a RoW. For Thousand Sons anyway.

For the Wolves I expect to see accute senses, counter-attack, wolf cavalry and wulfen. Russ will probably be a good beatstick and bring some solid army buffs,as per usual. The only other heresy era SW character I know of is Bjorn, but it might be a little too much to have him in Prospero. I doubt he'd be on the level of some of the other characters featured in books 1-5.

For Thousand sons, I'd like to see units of psykers from the different cults with the brotherhood of psykers rule and only one discipline to chose from for each cult. I'd also like to see the flesh change rear it's ugly head in game mechanics. I guess Ahriman will be likely to have a profile in the book, but I'd really like to see a new character too. I have no idea where they will go with Magnus other than he will be a ML4 psyker. Maybe they could give him a buff for rerolling WC dice or perils.

I really have no idea how Sisters of Silence will play other than they will most likely wreck psykers. If K Sons are real good and take off, I can see allied sisters being real prevalent. Bad news for those who use RoW that don't allow allies.

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How much of a bastard would I be to run Solar Auxilia using Skitarii models?

>>43835942
Fucking cunt/10, at least use the Militia list.

>>43835902
Bjorn was a wolf guard for Russ at this point and while the youngest, was none the less a badass. I'd be disappointed if we didn't get to see him as some Loken to Kharn tier badass.

>>43835902
We'll probably get Russ, Bjorn, and Jorin Bloodhowl for the Wolves.

I can't see them skipping over the 13th Company, Prospero is kind of a big deal for them.

>>43835902
I can see the Wolves getting a 0-1 Heavy support squadron of Leman Russes instead of the artillery.

>>43835902
Thousand Sons: all sergeants are level 1 psykers. Unique Command Squads with Brotherhood of Psykers and a mastery level based on the number of models, with some tweaking so that it benefits the characters that join them (the point of a command squad). Unique 1ksons Psychic powers that buff the caster and their units, encouraging them to do that instead of being warp charge batteries for their full librarians; but access to Daemonology (since they're desperate to unleash all the whoop-ass they can muster when the wolves drop). Maybe the "Primaris" power could be impregnating the bolt shells with psychic energy, making boltguns have inferno bolts? To counteract what would be a very strong power, though, fleshchange would be the consequence of failure, causing an automatic would on the sorcerer with the Instant Death special rule and no save, and D3 wounds on the unit. Or maybe just tone down "inferno bolts" to be more like banestrike.

Magnus should at least have the casting ability to Lorgar Transfigured, so he harnesses on a 3+ and so on.

Wolves should get wolf scouts. Definitely Bjorn should be there, maybe Rhanulf or whatever his name was. Unique Consul: Lone Wolf.

Sisters of Silence/Custodes, I dunno. But judging by the Navigator they released, they'll probably be single-squad 0-1 HQ/Elites choices and not an army of their own, so you won't need an allied FOC for them. I doubt they'll be necessary to take on 1ksons.

I hope we still get the Rogue Trader Militant list.

>wolf cavalry
Get that shit outta here.

>>43836204
>Unique Consul: Lone Wolf.

I like this, would it work like a close combat Moritat?.

>>43831742
I've read them all, only the dark angle shit pre crusade book and pathos were not worth it honestly, but your talking bout someone who has 30 cheasy ass books on his self.

Pick out your favorite legion and hope its a good book. Or do the right thing and just read Horus rising. If yeah vibe it keep going in order till fulgrim after that, up to you if you want to tackle the billion of the randomly ordered stuff.

I think that martain one ghram McNeal did, I thinks its number 8, is one of my favorites. Read that one if your into the admec and don't care for that he is only an OK writer.

Oh and any thing by Aaron domim bosksi is great. Like real deal, honest cross speak books. You'll hunt down his ebooks and novellas after your done his one of his.

>>43836265
>Aaron domim bosksi
Nigga wasn't about to let some little thing like not knowing the author's name stop him from telling you about him.

>>43831802
A BaCa if you will

>>43835960
Why tho?

>>43836265
>Pick out your favorite legion and hope its a good book.
Unless your favorite Legion is the first. Then you can call it quits from the start.

>>43836351
Reminds me, I still need to bug a drawfriend for a pic of Calgar being tsundere for Battlefleet Bakka.

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Has anyone made any combi-weapon conversions on the BaC terminator combi-bolters? I've been wondering if you could use, like, a plasma pistol and just slap it where the second half of the combi-bolter goes to.

>>43831784
those things are fucking huge, no? also what kind of dread?

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>>43836910

>>43836910
I'm using it for a Contemptor dread with Kheres and chainfist w/graviton this weekend. Eventually it'll be for a Leviathan dreadnought.

>>43835902
- Legion of Psykers: Modified rules for Preators, Librarians, Praevians and Sergants.

Changes:
- Praetors have Mastery Level 1 by default, and can buy an additional 3 Mastery Levels at 25 points each. A Praetor must be one Mastery Level higher than Librarians in the same detachement.
- Librarians lose their non-compulsory status, can buy up to ML3. A Librarian must be one Mastery Level higher than Sergeants in the same detachement.
- Praevians are no longer HQ, but an Elite choice. (Cataphracts)
- Sergeants (and equivalent unit leaders) can upgrade to ML1 for 20 points.

- Psychic Mastery: Discard the BRB rules for generating powers; after all units have been deployed on both sides, declare which Cult (discipline) each Psyker belongs to and roll 2d6 for each ML point, choosing between the two results for powers. Doubles let you pick a specific power and ML3 and ML4 psykers know their entire discipline's repertoire.

- Tutelary "Companion": Psykers have a 4+ special save to ignore effect of Perils and Word Bearers ID shit. If the save against Perils is failed, the power still goes off but the opponent controls it and it behaves as if originating from his/her army.

- Enumerations: Psykers activate warp charges on a 3+, and grant a +1 bonus to deny the witch to their unit.

- Legion Wargear (Heqa Staff): Any psyker can replace a power weapon with a Heqa Staff. One-handed force staff stats, increases the Tutelary "Companion" save to a 3+.

- Legion Disciplines:

Biomancy / Pavoni
P: Smite
1: Enfeeble
2: Life Leech
3: Endurance

Divination / Corvidae
P: Prescience
1: Forewarning
2: Perfect Timing
3: Precognition

Pyromancy / Pyrae
P: Spontaneous Combustion
1: Fire Shield
2: Inferno
3: Molten Beam

Telekinesis / Raptora
P: Telekine Dome
1: Assail
2: Levitation
3: Psychic Maelstrom

Telepathy / Athanaeans
P: Psychic Shriek
1: Dominate
2: Terrify
3: Mental Fortitude

>>43837257
Why not:
At the start of the psychic phase gather all your dice in a bowl. Then grab as many dice as you can fit inside your fist. These are now your dice for this psychic phase.

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I have a 1000 point game coming up against Alpha Legion with my Iron Hands. I know he's running an Executioner and possibly a Laser Destroyer Rapier. At the moment all I have are 2 Legion squads in Rhinos, Praetor with Gorgons and a Kheres Contemptor for a neat 1000.

At the current moment, does my current list stand any chance in hell against him? Furthermore, should I just fuck it and re-write to accommodate Land Raiders/ Spartans/ miscellaneous battle tanks?

We can all agree if Perturabo stayed loyal and replaced Dorn, the Emperor would still be alive and the traitors curb stomped before they could do shit right?

>>43837387
doesn't look great, predator execuitioners are pretty brutual and will likely wreck your gorgons before they can make it to combat.

1000 pts is too little to run a praetor unless you're playing zone mortalis where his cc potential will be useful. I'd run orth in a Sicaran, and give him another couple of battle tanks to support, backed up by the contemptor (run as mortis) and the rhino squads for objective grabbing.

>>43837639
>We can all agree that if we change a major detail about the event then the event will have a different outcome, right?
Perturabo was a faggot.

>>43836557
Can't you just use one of the combi weapons from the box instead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UNAjik9S80

FW just recommended this video for anyone new to working with their stuff.

Guys,

I´m not sure what kind of primer is best for my steel legionnaires. Black grey or white?? I'll paint them the standerd steel legion colours.

How do I houserule my nids to work with 30k?

>>43836951
Use normal drop pod as a dread drop pod. Problem solved.

>>43838225
If it's something you and your group honestly want to do, start by using the AoD stuff, rather than 40k, including the LoW slot choices and 25% cap, which add an interesting dynamic to higher point games. Past that, if you're planning on playing at higher points level games, it might be worthwile to increase the unit size, both minimum and maximum, for the more general units, gaunts, gargoyles, maybe genestealers. The next change would lilely be to allow certain, non-flying, MCs to be taken as either actual units, or like dreadnought talons.

Of course, this is something that would need time to play-test and a willingness to balance things out based on your games.

>>43838252
What problem?

Has anyone bought the legion upgrade sets? How's the general quality of the cast?

>>43836951
I hope there is a full painted army of eagle warriors to go with that

when 90% of the armies are space marines or ad mech T4 3+ or better shit, whats the point of having a unit use nothing but flamers?

>>43837334
I like it, but I don't think it's enough. Since in A Thousand Sons it's pretty much shown that the TS were skullfucking the Wolves with supreme ease - and space wolves are supposed to be better than other legions - until being shut down by the womyn of silence, it should be that for every successful warp charge they get to grab an opponent's model and throw it on the floor

>>43837257
This would be cool, though honestly I'm really hoping they give thousand sons their own Psycic table of mostly witchfire powers, like the Tzeentch table in the Chaos Dex.

Or Magnus atleast needs something of the sort.

The problem with the rulebook tables is that the mainly witchfire tables suck a fair bit and the other mind bullets are few and far between.

It'd be awesome if as a 1ksons player I could focus the main part of the destructive power of the army into witchfires.

Also Magnus himself should give a negative modifier to deny the witch rolls otherwise he'll suck against other primarchs.

>>43837387
Gorgons suck dick without a transport or deepstrike.

Maybe put all the other units in drop pods and use orbital assault?

How were chaplains armour coloured pre-heresy? I've tried to look for it trough google but mostly its fighting about did they even have chaplains pre-heresy outside of WBs and BAs wardens. Some site mentioned every legion getting chaplains after Nikea to watch librarians getting stomped and chaplains painting their armour WB-style gray but nothing concrete. Others say they wore black, others insist they had legion colours with black accents on pauldrons or gloves or somewhere.

Cant remember if any HH book had any mention of this, as chaplains outside of WBs were not that big deal.

>>43838225
As this dude said >>>43838275
It'd would need a pretty big nid army.

But letting most MC's be taken in squads of 3 would probably be a good start.

Also not allowing any formation bonuses.

Nids are already kind of ok as they can take MC's in troops slots, so if you bulk up on that you'll probably be fine.

>>43839087
Part of it is pure saturation, 10 flamers or heavy flamers is a lot of hits, useful against both 20 man blobs and 10 man elite squads, who usually don't like taking twice as many wounds as they have men.

Tac support squads are also really nice objective holders/barriers against elite melee units, since no one wants to eat 5-10d3 overwatch wounds.

>>43839203
The Word Bearer write up clearly states that chaplains had the same style of armor they had in M41, however the meaning behind their trappings differed. They definitely didn't wear Word Bearer gray, but I wouldn't be surprised if each legion had their own variations.

I know I'm late but I went to bed last night before I saw this junk so I have to comment.

>>43832778
Trying this hard to fit in made you stand out more like a sore thumb. Just stop.

>>43832801
I made these posts >>43831506 >>43831519 >>43831880 >>43831956 >>43832085 >>43832195 and you're calling me new? Pretty embarassing.

>>43833097
The way you use 4chan is perfect for /b/. Presuming the rest of the website works that way shows that you're out of depth.

>Why the fuck do you want to come up with ANOTHER name
You obviously haven't read the argument but my point is that names aren't needed at all. That's the problem with your thinking which is fine on a meme board but not when people are actually discussing . . . anything.

>>43833621
Honestly, we've had WAY worse threads, both on BaC and other topics. Not only that but this is a localised problem, with one shitposter versus basically everyone else. I wouldn't be so sensitive, given that we're making progress.

>>43834226
The trouble is that, in reaction to new players brought here by Calth being lazy and presumptuous, you have some people calling them cocksuckers and poorfags and going way too far. The second trouble is that people then make more presumptions about THAT group and assume they're 2nd ed guys or something, which they're not. There is or was an issue with new interest not just googling things and asking the same question nine times, but people are going too far in response and missing the point. Then more people are too far the other way and missing the point again. All of this can be avoided if people just stop calling each other retards.

>>43834419
BaC isn't really the centre of discussion, the set is uninamously respected.

>>43835636
Your argument is that people don't know the meaning of the term newfag, when the very nature of their posts include explanations of its meaning and worth. Fail.

>>43835680
They weren't shitposting, they were just wasting thread time. Calling them fags won't help.

>>43839325
Feel better?

>>43835942
Not much, as Skitarii did exist in 30K and will be getting rules eventually, and as elite human soldiers in carapace armour SA represent them more neatly than Mechanicum. Try to ally some robots or something to keep it fluffy.

>>43835960
Perfect example of the wrong tone in these threads. 40K general is bad because of stuff like this.

>>43836951
Nice mug

>>43837334
>>43839165
That's just a very rough draft. Point costs are fucked up, it leans too much on the overpowered side.

The main idea is to let psychic powers be more controlled and less lolrandom, at the cost of shit going south when they do fail (as in, opponent gets to control your spell, but I would also add a Flesh Change penalty there).

As for Magnus himself, I'd bet he would simply force enemies to do DtW at 6+ (or 5+ against primarchs) at best.

>>43839339
I feel better for scrolling down and seeing the shitposting died down by itself, yes. What else would I feel better about?

30k Generals are the reason I don't want to spend money on Horus Heresy stuff; Forgeworld or Betrayal at Calth. Holy fuck guys, if /tg/'s 30k Generals are anything like what the actual community is like, i've never seen a more elitist bunch of fucks.

Not everyone, of course, but every single 30k general there is at least 5-7 posters who act like this, while in 40k general or Age of Sigmar general, the amount of assholery is significantly less. It feels like a DOOM Mod forum in here.

How many of /hhg/ use generic armor vs the specialty torsos, helms, and shoulder pads that FW puts out? I don't mean for specialty units like termies or characters but just standard tactical marines.

>>43839390
you no right criticize 30k!
you no belong here! HNG!
30k best! 30k smash 40k! 40k weak!

I'm going to take my own spin at Thousand Sons.

Psychic Scholarship: Any Centurion, Consul and unit Character (Sergeant etc.) in the army can purchase a single Psychic Mastery Level for 25pts. This includes Librarians, which thus grants them a maximum Mastery Level of 3. Praetors can purchase up to 3 such levels, and so long as they have purchased one or more can upgrade any close combat weapon they own to have the Force special rule for 15pts.

Sacred Eye: Thousand Sons units have Adamantium Will, and have a 6+ Invulnerable save against Focussed Witchfire Powers and wounds from Perils of the Warp (if they already have an Invulnerable save they can reroll 1s). If the Thousand Sons player controls as many objectives at the end of the game as the enemy, the enemy counts as having scored one more objective.

>>43839390
You plainly haven't been to these threads very long. There's a backlash at behaviour by newcomers into the threads, and you're overreacting. Telling people to use google and read threads before asking if it's okay to use a helldrake six times isn't elitism, it's basic sense. If you don't like it, fine, but trying to bully the opposition doesn't make you right.

>>43839391
Eh, from what I've seen it's 50-50. I wouldn't use consistent special armour in a unit unless it was a veteran or command squad.

>>43838002
After I put combi-weapons on two sergeants, I'm left with one PA combi-weapon and the combi-melta of the captain. I want to give all the terminators combi-plasmas, hence my query.

>>43839449
Oh yeah, and for Tactical Veteran, Terminator and Command Squads, the entire unit can become a Brotherhood of Psykers for 5pts per head. If the unit includes 5 or more models it generates 2 Warp Charge and with 8 or more models 3 Warp Charge. Sekhmet Terminators are automatically this way.

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>>43839475
Not actually, friend, i've been lurking these threads for quite along time. I notice people constantly bicker about the usage of Mechanicum units, bicker about which Legion is better, and get upset about the lack of support for whatever army they like. Sometimes they are nice threads that have taught me a lot about the game and the meta, but more often than not, I see a huge amount of arguing. Perhaps my 'overreacting' wasn't eloquent enough for your taste, but don't seek to needlessly debauch your own argument by calling me a bully when you yourself have noted the backlash, since the treatment of newcomers (introduced by Betrayal at Calth, since now a lot of people can afford the game) is in itself a testimony to the inherent negativity of the community.

>>43839429
oh..ohk.

>>43831672
Abnett and ADB are pretty good. The rest are mediocre or shit.

>>43839553
> I notice people constantly bicker about the usage of Mechanicum units
This never happens. There've been ripples of "are mechanicum OP?", which has consolidated into a "no but they're good".
>bicker about which Legion is better
You mean discussing.
>get upset about the lack of support for whatever army they like.
Rare, except for recently due to newcomers seeing shoulder pads and helments released for armies without rules (and one guy who couldn't accept only two Imperial Armies).

>Sometimes they are nice threads
Almost all threads are great. Of course there are bad threads, this isn't a fucking fairy tale. The point is that 30K generals have done what 40K generals haven't, and it's due to a high quality of posting. When low quality posting arrives, a resistance is a very good sign.

>Perhaps my 'overreacting' wasn't eloquent enough for your taste
You're trying to paint me as a snob for telling you that sweepingly dismissing entire threads and threadgoers does no good. Not only does that not make sense but it doesn't further your point.

>don't seek to needlessly debauch your own argument
Trying to use fancy words alone would be bad enough but misusing them is another thing. You're not very secure about all this. Just calm down.

>calling me a bully
That's what you are though, you hurl insults and perjoratives and try to attack the characters of your opponents rather than dealing with their arguments. You ignore posts of reasoning to make isolated comments saying you're "sick" of certain content and you wish it would go away. You want to silence people in other words.

>inherent negativity of the community.
If the community was inherently negative, 1) we wouldn't have our track record of functional threads and 2) critics of the newcomer's behaviour wouldn't stick up for them when people go too far and start calling them faggots. That the community is willing to discuss newcomer mistakes and stop "gtfo"-ers is credit to 30K general's positivity.

>>43839681

I think that you are using far too many contemplative and extrapolative comments about my character, based on only two comments. You're not a fucking psychologist so if you want to take apart my comment, do so without the comments about my character.

I no longer wish to continue discussing this with you because, instead of debating about why the 30k community seems to be filled to the brim with elitist and argumentative types, you instead attack my person with completely unfounded and extraneous insults. My first post was certainly 'ragey', my initial thoughts aren't always well founded, but you keep making points about things i've barely dipped into.

You, sir, are being wretchedly cynical and are a prime example of the people I don't enjoy interacting with. Have a good day/night.

>>43839762
>I think that you are using far too many contemplative and extrapolative comments about my character, based on only two comments.
This is rich, coming from someone who is characterising an entire general and its postership from one topic in a couple of threads. It's also ironic given that your entire is "people are elitist, aren't they awful". I don't see much of any basis for this, let alone two direct posts plus a thread full of comments that are blatantly yours.

>You're not a fucking psychologist
Which means that I must be incorrect? That's mystical thinking, you have no idea about my job or whatever but if someone makes an accurate observation about a chemical and they're not a chemist, that comment isn't negated. Nor is it disallowed. But more importantly -
>the comments about my character.
Which comments, exactly? As I can see it all I've done is point out your behaviour.

>I no longer wish to continue discussing this with you
That's a lie, you never wanted to do so in the first place. You evaded dealing with reasons and instead whinged and complained passive-aggressively. You just wish that people who acknowledge truths you find uncomfortable would go away, and you want to silence them. Not once have you provided a line of reasoning beyond your accusations and character remarks. Furthermore, your use of the term
>argumentative types
as some kind of insult betrays your disinterest in reason. Looking for a discussion and debate on matters of interest is not a flaw, it's a hallmark of development.

>My first post was certainly 'ragey'
All your posts have been ragey, and "cringy" to borrow another of your terms (seriously, "You, sir"? Do I need to say tips fedora?), and this is the crux of the problem. You're getting offended and uppity without thinking what people are saying through, and it's not helping either the older posters, the newcomers or the thread in general. Insulting people needlessly - not good.

1/2

>>43839762
Please go. Somewhere in the 40k general, anon is waiting to be called a faggot. Fulfill your destiny.

>>43839762
Calling newcomers fags and cocksuckers - not good. Calling people who want order and not asking basic and redundant "elitist" - not good. That's literally all we've been telling you. Think it over.

>you keep making points about things i've barely dipped into
You don't see how your statements relate to each other or to other factors in the discussion, chiefly because you're looking only at the first few words in an argument before deciding you don't like your opponent and raging out.

>are being wretchedly cynical
A perfect example of actual character slinging rather than reason.

>Have a good day/night.
Nothing is resolved with passive aggression. Just talk. Preferably about the things people say.

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>>43839553
I dont think many in the HH community (here on /tg/ and as a whole) begrudge BaC for bringing in different types of players.

What people arent going to embrace is:
stupid questions you can figure out yourself. Bringing 40k models to the HH table. Not knowing anything about the game or playerbase, and trying to figure out the strongest list there can be, ie powergaming. And general shitposting. No one wants to hear about your primarch waifu, or your adolescent explanation of why 'Mortarian is a faggot'.

Theres plenty of room in the 40k general for calling each other faggot, or whatever other stupid inane shit they do over there. There are some HH regulars that have either stopped posting or are lurking since BaC brought all the retards out. I hope these mouthbreathers get bored and go back to 40k so the grown ups can have their toy soldier conversations.

>>43840094
>Bringing 40k models to the tabletop
I still don't understand everyone's issue with this. It seems more confrontational then this place used to be.

>>43840175
Honestly most people would probably be fine with it in person if it looks close enough. If this guy >>43834691 brought pic related mixed in with a Calth set I'd give zero fucks. Anonymous on the other hand has problems with everything and is vocal about it from the other side of a computer. In real life he'd smile, shut the fuck up and play.

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Okay, actual game question here

Mortarion is fast as shit, on his own.
He's also pretty damn durable.

Is it viable to run him without a bodyguard, or should he just leave the unit (probably Deathshrouds, for both meat shield and fluff reasons) when he's doing his super charge?

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>>43839983
Anyway, lets stop arguing about each other's characters because clearly we are very different people and would be unable to come to anything remotely close to an understanding.

However, I think you've misunderstood my 'ragey' nonsense earlier. I'm not attacking 30k General in its entirety, I clearly pointed out there are several more negative posts and discussions about the game than in other communities. I notice the same at my FLGS, and on other forums. I notice that 30k's player base seem to have already built an idea of what is 'appropriate' in the game, and what content is good and what is not, but I, for one, heartily disagree with it. I disagree with the fact that 30k players feel that 40k content shouldn't be in the game, while these same players use their 30k content in 40k most likely. I disagree that people who, essentially, play variations on the same Space Marine sculpt should argue so venomously with each other over their Legions and rules.

Perhaps I'm wrong since, based on your posts, you seem to have a considerably different idea, but after months of lurking i've come to notice these trends on /tg/, and on other places.

>>43840094
This guy gets its.

>>43840175
Like with BaC, it's not the models but the foolishness that's the issue. You can't just bring Space Wolves in a Dark Angels army, so why would you bring Mk7 troops in a Crusade list? It shows a lack of research, an expectation for the thread to bend over to explain simple things ad nauseum, and it shows a lack of indepedent motivation to learn more about the joys of 30K.

>>43840301
Nah, that model is poorly painted and is completely setting innacurate. You can tolerate the odd model or so as a half-proxy but there's no encouraging it.

>>43840386
It's very viable without a bodyguard. Morty is among the best of the Primarchs for the exact reasons you note, plus he is effective in combat against many types of targets. Fighting rival Primarchs is perhaps his only weakness.

Corax is more independent than him, arguably the most independent in the game and very survivable against shooting. Morty needs an initial cover, but that doesn't even need to be a bodyguard or transport, it can just be cover from other units or terrain.

>>>43840407
>Anyway
You can't anyway at the start of a point. That's literally just dismissing an entire argument without a bit of reason. No. Try again.

1000 points iron warrior list (I know it's small but my opponent only has this amount for now):

>master of the signal with arteficer armor
>10 tacs, extra ccw, sergeant with power fist and artecifer armor, embarked on rhino
>10 tacs, extra ccw, sergeant with power fist and artecifer armor, embarked on rhino
>contemptor dreadnought, kheras assault cannon, chainfist and missile launcher
>5 iron havocs with missile launchers, sergeant with artecifer armour

total: 1000 points


should I take more antitank stuff?

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FW has been sitting on the TS upgrade kit for over a year now, whyyyy

>>43831433
I started just before BaC was announced,when the box was released i was jumping for joy as it reduced my costs a shitload.

I am building Sons of Horus with a focus on their rite of war and legion rules. Big tactical units and big units of cataphractii termies backed up by outflanking reavers and flyers. The Big Man himself will be added later so i can outflankwhat isnt arriving via flyer or deepstrike. I want it to be flexible and play differently than my local meta of death guard, iron warriors and alpha legion :)

Thoughts?

>>43840455
Is it official?

>>43837257
>ML4 psykers
>harness on a 3+
>special save against perils and other negative effects
>access to all the good powers
Yeah, that seems totally reasonable.

>>43840408
My issue with it is it gives off the attitude that you should never put anything other than 30k stuff on the table, even if you only own like 700 points of it right now. A friend and I are the only people interested in 30k in our area, 40k having mostly died out sadly, and right now we're both proxying a lot of shit because neither of us can afford to get the 2000 points of 30k stuff we'd like to have, and so we're prioritizing stuff like spartans and jetbikes, things that can't be easily proxied, as our initial purchases.

>>43835942
Cult list with survivors of the dark age and sayyyyy warrior elite? I think it would fit better thematically, at least until they drop skitarius rules

>>43835960
Dude, cool it

>>43840436
Whatever man.

>>43840455
Oh wow, that looks badass.

>>43840486
If it's not official I'd still pay top for it, sweet quality.

>>43840494
Only if you look at the first few words in a sentence and jump to a conclusion. The point quite clearly says the odd model is fine. People should not be encouraged to proxy 40K for the same reason proxying shouldn't be encouraged in general, it undermines the crucial aesthetic appeal of the game.

>>43840460
Sounds pretty cool, just be warned with SoH that the unique units aren't hot. You plan on using regular termies so that's good. Hope your list shapes out good, post it on here for C&C.

>>43840568
>>43840486
It's official yes. it's also over a year old (and those are the DA robes, to be clear)

Last July Alan (or one of the other FW folks) confirmed that they were pretty much done with all the TS upgrade kit sculpting. They're made for Mk4 armor.

Hnngh, when damnit

>>43840568
And that's where I disagree with you. Proxys aren't some sin against the game, or something to be discouraged like a bad habit. You need to encourage people to build their army.

Carrot, not the stick, which seems to be the threads prefered method of getting peole to not proxy.

>>43840449
Nah I think this is fine. You're got five tank hunter missile launchers, 2 power fists, a dreadnought chainfist and a kheres in 1000pts, in a game centred around high points values. That's impressive in some ways.

(it's spelt artificer by the way)

>>43840611
sorry I'm not native english
thanks!

>>43840598
Hnnngh indeed.

>>43840602
No, that's where you read the first few words in a sentence and jump to a conclusion, again. Proxies are not a sin, that's why a few of them are fine. You would get this if you read the whole thing.

>>43840629
NP bro, happy tank-hunting!

>>43840638
And yet, you discourage anything more than a spattering. That's not me failing to read. I have no problem with someone putting an entire fucking proxy army on the table, so long as I know they honestly want to have an actual army.

>>43840638
>>43840598
>>43840486
>>43840455

BELIEVE SOON

>Thousand sons.
>As mentioned earlier, the upgrades for these have been completed, hopefully see release september with the other kits to enable army building.
>Concepts have been done for special units.(sketches I think)
>Rules wise, they are still in testing due to their unpredictable nature. It was hush hush but basically as I have said before, they seem to be under or over performing. Ideas include some such as, that your leader chooses a temple (pyrae, corvidae etc) and they will have access to and an increase in that power. Other ideas include lvl1 psykers in sgt places. Sgts may also get a temple choice. And if tutelaries work out (similar to cyber familiars, but boosting psychic skills) a legion specific upgrade (Id imagine hequa staff) similar to others (ec phoenix spears, death guard scythes)
>These are in testing stage though, and obviously they will not tell me the ins and outs of how they play, and it could change before their release.
>Alan said 'oh we have some interesting plans for them in the future' he's such a tease lol

>>43840408
>Nah, that model is poorly painted and is completely setting innacurate. You can tolerate the odd model or so as a half-proxy but there's no encouraging it.

I was talking about tolerating it as a filler model to stretch out other marks of armor.

And you must have a pretty good sized community if you turn down games because the other player's models' paint job isn't up to your standard. That models not good, but it's definitely table top quality. Unless this is just what you post anonymously online and face-to-face you would just smile, shut the fuck up, and play.

>>43840583
Actually yeah that is why I actually chose the SoH, their special units only get nasty when you combine them with their legion rules,/RoW and i feel how i play them will matter a lot :) list soon to follow

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>>43831519
Isn't GW the company that bragged about not having a marketing department because they "didn't need one"?

Also I running about converting Kharn so his other leg is lifted, I don't like how it looks like he's about to fall over. Has anyone tried this before/ know how difficult it would be? Asked wip earlier and no one had a clue

>>43840944
Thinking about. Fuck you autocorrect

>>43840692
>And yet, you discourage anything more than a spattering.
Your choice of word, not mine. I've already given reasons why armies shouldn't use more than a few proxy, you can counter those reasons or you can just ignore them. The latter won't make you right.

>I have no problem with someone putting an entire fucking proxy army on the table
At the club? After you've gone to the hard work and effort of making a nice force? Nah. It's one thing at a test game or messing around while a guest is over, but that's not the central experience of the game.

>>43840449
wasnt there a faq that you cant take the master of signal as a compulsory HQ choice?

of course its the best choice for IW

>>43841015
Sadly yes

Legion Support Officer (HH1 – page 191; CAL – page 17)
A Consul of this type may not be used as a compulsory HQ choice for the army unless specifically exempted by a particular Legiones Astartes rule or Rite of War.
- This special rule is added to the Master of Signal, Librarian and Primus Medicae Consul types.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>>43840702
Sweet, sorcerous goodness.

>>43840764
>I was talking about tolerating it as a filler model to stretch out other marks of armor.
So was I, and I was saying that it didn't even fit those standards. I could maybe tolerate the model itself being completely wrong for the army but the poor paint job crossed the line. I am not a great painter, but you need to try a lot harder than that.

>And you must have a pretty good sized community if you turn down games because the other player's models' paint job isn't up to your standard.
You're making out painting to be a lot harder than it is. I have no trouble finding armies that are acceptable. A model that's been primed or based without finishing is better than the miniature in that pic. It's not even a big deal, but you happened to find an example beyond the pale, sub-tabletop quality.

>>43840834
No, not really, Reavers are just average at large sizes and poor otherwise and Justaerin are terrible. Don't get the wrong idea about poor features just because the whole is alright. Keep at it.

>>43840944
Yep, which explain why their marketing is so shallow. Anyone can understand simple principles like "try to draw in new customers", but it takes a dedicated team to actually strike the right balance and 'Workshop fucks it up.

>>43841097
>>43841015
Oh yeah, I forgot about this. Sorry dude who posted the list. If you demote the Iron Havocs to regular Heavy Support, or trim back on stuff like Power Armour, you might be able to fit a Centurion in there.

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>>43840944
Fuck running. Dynamic Entry ftw.

>>43840944
>>43841101
Honestly they do have a form of marketing in videogames. Their recent IP's in that space has been drawing in people, which honestly should give GW a clue that marketing is actually a thing that works instead of sucking your established audience dry.

I know a ton of people who knew nothing about Fantasy or 40k suddenly become interested because of DoW/Vermintide/Total Warhammer. How they think marketing has nothing to do with a successful business is just another aspect of GW's incompetence in my mind.

>>43841101
>Implying you'd actually say this in person and not just anonymously on the net.

I still don't believe you.

>>43841290
You're absolutely right, but then the kind of company that doesn't think to do marketing research or dismisses it as unnecessary probably lacks exactly the traits need to spot the success of Dawn of War as a marketing tool.

>>43841432
You must really be a pussy if imagining someone saying "Sorry but I won't play against that, it doesn't look nice" seems fanciful.

>>43840583
SoH list

Legion Centurion
Master of Signal
Plasma pistol

Troops
2 X 20 man tac squads
Seargent(s) with Artificer, power fist, melta bomb

9 man plasma support squad

6 man reaver squad with jump packs, power swords
Cheiftan has artificer and melta bombs

5 justaerin with power axes and combi plas

Contemptor mortis with twin kheres

10 man cataphractii w/
2 power fists
2 thunder hammers
6 chainfists
4 combi plas

Storm eagle w/lascannons and multi melta

Legion skyhunters with melta bombs, multi melta, and power sward

Fire raptor

Horus "the big cheese" Lupercal

3500ish

Basically the termies, contemptor, master of signal, and plasma support squad form up on the field weather the storm and move up.

Turn two shit gets bonkers with deepstriking horus and friends backed up with outflanking reavers, deepstriking jetbikes and flyers.

Maybe it wont win, but it should be fun

>>43841529
I've just only ever met assholes who sperg out over things like that over the internet. People in person are generally just happy to have a game. Once again, you must have a much larger gaming community than me. Maybe this is just a small town midwest thing, or maybe you're just a passive-aggressive cunt who talks shit when he's named Anonymous, but in real life he would just smile, shut the fuck up, and play.

I have a painting question. I'm starting a death guard army for 30k and was wondering how to paint veteran tacticals to differentiate them from regular tacticals.

>>43841560
It almost certainly won't win, which will probably undermine the fun somewhat. You really really should not take Justaerin, unless you actively want to lose. That's okay but just consider yourself warned. Same thing for squads of Reavers under 10 men to be honest.

Consider that you have 70 men, 2 characters, 3 jetbikers, 1 dreadnought, 2 flyers and a Primarch in a list over 3000pts. It's not bad but you could definitely do with more bodies. Heresy is about large squads. There are redundant upgrades like plasma pistols, melta bombs on men with power fists, and large numbers of chainfists where you could start.

It looks fun, but it could be more fun.

>>43841586
We get it mister tryhard, your community is special yadda yadda say that to my face yadda yadda. If you're not interested in a discussion, or if you find the existence of other people's opinions offensive, why reach out?

>>43842037
Well, I guess a higher standard for starts. Death Guard aren't the type of legion for massive ornamention, although they do have certain symbols like scythes and hourglasses which they reserve for more powerful units. Try using legion-exclusive model parts to make them feel extra-Death Guard-y. Not sure how I can help you otherwise.

I have a feeling that when the last legions get their rules there's gonna a whole lotta disappointment around here. They've been so long in the making, and peoples hopes have been steadily rising, that they cannot be met unless the whole balance is thrown out of the window.

>>43842296
I don't get what you mean. The next three legions rules will be coming out pretty soon, and it'll be legion-specific units and characters, Space Wolves and Thousands Sons after then. All of this will be several books before the grand finale, the Siege of Terra, and there'll be plenty of steam by then, with more factions and upgraded Primarchs and such.

Forgeworld have managed a steady released of Legion rules over the last five books just fine, and have adapted to low power levels from the first books considerably better - swifter, more efficiently and more balance - than Games Workshop. I see precedence for good times ahead.

>>43841560
>maybe it won't win
>maybe
Anon, I din't know what to tell you...
In all seriousness, that list is prone to auto-loosing turn one, especially if the enemy has deployed everything as usual.
At 3.5k wasting 21 models is a breeze, even with a decidedly mediocre force like mine. During the first turn those guys would have to endure the fire from a Typhon, two plasma Contemptors, a Kheres Contemptor-Mortis, three Quad-Rapiers, ten missile launchers, ten volkite calivers, ten combi-plasma, an Orbital Bombardment, a Deredeo, about 40 boltguns and other random shit.
And even if someone survives and all your stuff comes in right after that, they still won't do much for a whole turn while they stand around picking their noses. The only immideatly dangerous unit in that list are the two flyers and maybe the MM dickbike.
Really, SoH rules seem cool in concept, but the game does everything it can to kneecap them.

>>43842037
Get the Death Guard heads, shoulders, and torsos.

The Crusade army list isnt in the OP link and the only thing i could find is this : http://epicfr.yaztromo.org/DCA2014/special%20rules.pdf
can anybody confirm that this is the current version?

>>43842728
>http://epicfr.yaztromo.org/DCA2014/special%20rules.pdf
I can only see 11 pages. Judging by the colour of the backgrounds I think this is a bit old. We can see when we reach the Consul page, as Librarians among others were changed.

In any case be sure to download the rules for Praevians and Delegates from the website. They're not in any of the books yet.

>>43842728

Here's Scannon's raws if you want them. The quality is a bit off though compared to his other works, but should look good enough.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/p5mt5733zexlw5n/Crusade_Army_List.7z

Rate my fluffy 3K Death Guard force

Death Guard Legion Army 3000pts

Onslaught FoC

Rite of War: The Reaping

HQ
Legion Centurion 112pts
- Terminator Armour
- Chainfist
- Combi-melta
- Rad Grenades

Deathshroud Terminators 210pts
- 5 models

TROOPS
Legion Tactical Squad 300pts
- 20 models
- Additional Combat Blade
- Sergeant: Rad Grenades

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 265pts
- 10 models
- 2 meltaguns
- Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power Fist, Rad Grenades

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 250pts
- 10 models
- 2 meltaguns
- Sergeant: Combi-melta, Rad Grenades

Heavy Support Squad 250pts
- 10 models
- Missile Launchers
- Sergeant: Augury Scanner, Rad Grenades

ELITES
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon 365pts
- 2 Dreadnoughts
- Multi-melta, CCW
- Kheres Assault Cannon, CCW

Legion Mortis Dreadnought 145pts
- 2 Twin Linked Missile Launchers

Apothicarion Detachment 90pts
- 2 Apothecary’s

Legion Cataphracti Terminator Squad 375pts
- 10 models
- 2 Reaper Autocannons
- 2 Chainfists

HEAVY SUPPORT
Grave Warden Squad 210pts
- 5 models
- Heavy Flamer, Chem munitions

LORDS OF WAR
Mortarion 425pts

>>43843157
You can't use the Onslaught FOC and Rites of War. Try again.

>>43843157
I want to say awesome, but as >>43843194 points out no Onslaught-y.

Maybe if you ask your opponent dead nicely? I'd let you use this, unless you effortlessly tabled thrice in a row and the like.

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>>43843194
>>43843245
Fuck. Ok I'll just have to re-arrange troops a little is all, It's fine.

>>43843266
It's for the best. Keep on poisoning and shit.

So how would you guys go about Alpha Legion Terminators? Without stealing someone else's.

Right now I'm looking at Banestrike Combi-bolters paired with claws and fists, but I'm new enough that I'm not sure if that's just a giant points sink or something functional. And are Lerneans actually as bad as I've heard people say they are?

>>43843290
Banestrikes are good, and go well with Infiltrate and Scout so you can get into RF range quick-style. You can also use heavy equipment for tank huntan. MtC and AW don't really combo greatly with them. Counterattack . . . no comment. An alpha strike is a very real possibility with the first two rules so investment in strong combat gear is probably sensible. Otherwise no game-changing uses beyond the standard.

Lerneans are alright. They're a bit confused because they have Volkite Chargers across the board, which you do pay for, yet their gimmick special weapon is a Conversion Beamer. Short ranged versus long-ranged much? Much. Plus they're locked in axes and Cataphractii, which doesn't make them worse but does limit their roles. No overwatch or running ever, no Initiative above 1 and such. They're not properly bad like Justaerin, just limited.

so, are there any current chinamen alive?

>>43843386
Plenty, good luck finding them.

>>43843288
>>43843266
>>43843245
>>43843194
I fixed it. Rate it, hate it or masturbate to it gentlemen.

Death Guard Legion Army 3000pts

Rite of War: The Reaping

HQ
Legion Centurion 112pts
- Terminator Armour
- Chainfist
- Combi-melta
- Rad Grenades

Deathshroud Terminators 210pts
- 5 models

TROOPS
Legion Tactical Squad 300pts
- 20 models
- Additional Combat Blade
- Sergeant: Rad Grenades

Legion Tactical Squad 300pts
- 20 models
- Additional Combat Blade
- Sergeant: Rad Grenades

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 265pts
- 10 models
- 2 meltaguns
- Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power Fist, Rad Grenades

Heavy Support Squad 250pts
- 10 models
- Missile Launchers
- Sergeant: Augury Scanner, Rad Grenades

ELITES
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon 365pts
- 2 Dreadnoughts
- Multi-melta, CCW
- Kheres Assault Cannon, CCW

Legion Mortis Dreadnought 145pts
- 2 Twin Linked Missile Launchers

Apothicarion Detachment 165pts
- 3 Apothecary’s
- Artificer Armor x3

Legion Cataphracti Terminator Squad 250pts
- 5 models
- Reaper Autocannon
- 5 Chainfists
- Grenade Harness

HEAVY SUPPORT
Grave Warden Squad 210pts
- 5 models
- Heavy Flamer, Chem munitions

LORDS OF WAR
Mortarion 425pts

HAs anyone used the Tormentor alongside Perturabo? I want a heavy tank and a primarch, so i was planning on bringing it with a few tech marines inside.

>>43843459
Smexy, and legal too.

>>43843491
I've never seen it, or Rogal Dorn's big bird thing either on here, certainly not in practice. Honestly no comment.

Most people don't use many super-heavies, outside of Malcadors, Typhons and Knights. Presumably those have more appeal than others.

In theory, how are you supposed to take advantage of Dorn's bullshit rules? I just cant see how I'd use Dorn if I ever get him.

how are glaives? i like the idea of a fuckhueg tank with a giant deathlaser

>>43843157
2 HQ
4 Troops
4 Elites
1 HS
1 LoW

Does this even need to be an Onslaught FOC? Looks like it fits fine into the standard AoD one.

>>43843597
Pretty much exactly as far as you've got. Dorn is among the worst (maybe the worst?) Primarch, his combat prescence and mediocre bonuses don't justify his cost.

>>43843647
I too would like to know hte answer to this question. The solution is a lot of people being okay with paper proxies.

>>43843459
Save points from the grenade harness on the cataphractii. They're all unwieldy. I like the list, though that's a lot of points on the vet tac sarge

>>43843647
They're over costed and not that effective. I'd rather take a Falchion

>>43843673
Death Guard Veteran and Heavy Support are non-compulsory. So yes he needed to add another tactical squad.

So will forge world actually fix the shitty shit or will they just plug their ears like gw and pretend everything's fucking balanced?

>>43840455

Possibly because SW stuff isn't done yet, I think it was said they wanted to release them at the same time.

>>43840944

The thing with marketing is that who is GW going to reach that they already don't have a decent means of? Who all is this massive pool of untapped customers that is going to drop money on toy soldiers?

>>43843793

Depends on what you're talking about. There was talk of them taking another look at the earlier Legion units.

>>43843793
They've alrrady said that they intead to do something about the shit stuff. How far they're willing to go, we don't know, but the new.legion specific RoW are supposed to buff the original legions' stuff.

>>43843874
It was mentioned in the last thread that Emperor's Children are getting a RoW that gives Kakaphoni relentless and makes them troops. If there's equivalent levels of improvements for SoH and World Eaters, I'll be very happy.

>>43843793
One of the writers openly apologized for recon squads and said they're definitely being looked at again.

>>43842089
>If you're not interested in a discussion, or if you find the existence of other people's opinions offensive, why reach out?

Who the fuck is this retard? I see this same lame-ass response pasted across this board all the time. It must be the same guy. Just because people argue with you does not mean they don't want a discussion. An argument is in fact a type of discussion. 0/10 please stop posting.

>if you find the existence of other people's opinions offensive
says the guy who REEEEEEEEs about other people being okay with ugly minis.

Why do I see so many Emperor's Children players with jetbikes and attack speeders? Aside from the obvious innuendo, is there any fluff reason for it?

>>43844130
gotta go fast

>>43843793
They've made efforts already and they're apparently making more in upcoming books. That's already miles ahead of the Games Workshop norms. They don't pretend that it's perfectly balanced either, which is an actual acknowledgement unlike Games Workshops "fun doesn't matter" attitude.

>>43844021
Did it really take you 3 hours to come up with this bait? 2/10

>>43844130
>beyond the pale, sub-tabletop quality
Their RoW gives you more precision in when your reserves from Fast Attack and Elites arrive. Maybe they want more reliable outflanking bikes.

>>43844175
I'm actually a different guy than the one you were bitch fighting with. I don't think you know what bait means, or what tryhard means.

>>43843597
>>43843694
I dunno, being wounded on a 3+ seems pretty good, given that nearly all the primarchs will be wounding eachother on 2's.

His weapon sucks though.

It should be +2S straight up. It's already unwieldy, which kind of sucks.

His cover buffing rule is awesome if you bring a fortification, and is probably the only thing that makes him viable.

So, whens the next open day or weekender going to happen, is there any word on whats going to get shown off there?

>>43843459
I don't see the point in taking a Centurion unless you're making it a consul, even if you want a vanilla one you could make it a champion

>>43844559
Next HH Weekender is in February. Book 6 should be for sale there.

>>43844212
We believe you so much.

>>43844429
It's one admittedly nice asset in an overall weak set. Take his low Strength and Initiative, or low Iniative and Attack count combat performance, or his inability to shoot and assault. The combat bonuses Dorn and his unit enjoys are nice but not game changing, and buffing a piece of cover is great but not enough. None of the primarchs are close to bad units, but Dorn comes in the rear to a lot of others. One of the chief assets the IW have over the Fists is their Primarch for instance.

>>43844559
I think something about Corax was mentioned

>>43844572
You almost have a point but then you recommend Champion. If you meant Chaplain then fair enough but Champions are a cohort to Destroyer Squads and Recon Squads as bad units. Not Justaerin bad but Phalanx Warder bad.

>>43844676
How might this change in a zone mortalis game where the average length of sight is shorter? My group will be running zone mortalis pretty much exclusively for the next few months until we can all get more models built and painted.

>>43844737
Probably not at all, given the nature of these units.

>>43844676
they better fix all that :^)

Never played HH. How is this? 2.5k Death Guard with the Reaping rite of war.

HQ
Deathshroud Terminator squad x7 rad grenades, melta bombs 335

Troops
Legion heavy support squad x10 augury scanner, rad grenades, missile launchers w/flak 350
Legion heavy support squad x10 augury scanner, rad grenades, missile launchers 300
Legion tactical squad x10 melta bombs, rad grenades rhino w/havoc launcher 235
Legion tactical squad x10 melta bombs, rad grenades rhino w/havoc launcher 235

Heavy support
legion spartan assault tank armoured ceramite, flare shield 340
legion vindicator dozer blade, extra armor, twin linked bolter 140
legion vindicator dozer blade, extra armor, twin linked bolter 140

LoW
Mortarion 425

>>43845494

You need a Praetor to run a Rite of War.

>>43845514
You need Master of the Legion to run a RoW, Primarchs have Master of the Legion.

>>43845514
Is mortarion not a master of the legion?

>>43845087
Is this supposed to be trolling?

>>43845494
Not a lot of value to those Rad grenades but I suppose they're still useful for their cost. There's a low model count here, but it feels dense for it's size. I don't know if I can thumbs up it yet, but I'd definitely like to see it in action. All the units here are good, so if it doesn't work out they can all be used in other armies.

>>43845494
>w/flak

Drop this, give PotMS to those vindicators.

>>43845514
Not if you have a Primarch with MotL

>>43845574
just because it has an emoticon doesn't make it "trolling"...

>>43844660
>IW have over the Fists is their Primarch for instance.
True dat, perty is a beast.

I still think Dorn has uses though, but he doesn't do nearly as well in lower point games, like 2k.

I'm planning on taking him eventually along with my Auxilia for 3k point games.

Being able to buff ADL's should be pretty useful, and going to ground gives a 2+ rerollable.

Interesting rules question though:

Is Plasma-wave forces you to reroll a successful cover save, can you then reroll the reroll if you are eligible to reroll failed cover saves?

>>43845530
>>43845532
>>43845651

I didn't think Primarchs could allow you to run a Rite of War on their own, as they're LOW and not HQ units.

>>43845706
Please read the rules.

>>43845706
Doesn't matter if they're HQ or not just needs to be the warlord and have MotL

>>43845706
But yeah please read the rules.

double volkite contemptor worth doing?

>>43845617
I figured there would be fire rapter/eagles ect putting hole in things. Not the case? Potms lets you move 12 and still fire the derp gun right? Does it override snap fire? If so I could drop the armor. I do not play marines so not sure.

With taking Allies in 30k, do I HAVE to use the optional Allied Force Organisation chart or can I just run a second detachment altogether?

I don't see anywhere saying I can't, but it says "primary detatchment" and you can only have 1 of those.

>>43845901
>do I HAVE to use the optional Allied Force Organisation chart

Yes, you only get one Force Organization Chart, no multiple detachment shenanighans unless you are not playing the age of darkness rules.

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>>43845668
What is it then?

>>43845688
I reckon I may have been a bit harsh on Dorn in spots but it is true that he's low-utility next to other Primarchs.

>rerolling rerolls
The answer is always nyet. In case of doubt, assume the positive and negative rerolls cancel out.

Dat Perty.

>>43845901
You're using 40K terms outside of 40K. Thinking like that will get you unstuck.

>>43845994
The Truth

>>43845901
Yes. That's what only having one primary detachment means. You get one normal force org, an ally one, a fortification, and a LoW. If you somehow fill those up and aren't playing apocalypse then congrats.

As with everything FW, this of course comes with the clause of: If you and you're opponent agree, why not?

>>43845960
Ok, that kinda sucks, I wanted an evenly split force.

Also, something I noticed that doesn't seem to be covered in any FAQ - with Word Bearers taking Daemon allies it says they are Battle Brothers instead of the Sworn Brothers 30k equivalent.

Does that mean they use Battle Brothers rules in the 40k rulebook instead of Sworn Brothers?

Planning on a Daemons in buckets list so this difference is pretty vital

>>43846026
>If you and you're opponent agree, why not?
A good motto for life in general I find.

If I'm playing a pick-up game and someone brings Sons of Horus with Justaerin, I usually offer them a bonus 75 points to spend on their army, and go lax on proxies. I do the same thing with Destroyers, and one guy and I who both like the idea of Destroyers now agree to charge 100pts for the base unit and 15pts for the extras in our games together. Ranga-doody.

>>43846099
I'm not certain it makes much difference. Forgeworld goes loose with terms like this all the time, it's not anal over pointless stuff like Games Workshop. (eg Rogal Dorns entry refers to Phalanx Breachers, which aren't a unit)

>>43846099
Probably just misprint. It's the problem with writing books for both systems, you sometimes forget the semantic differences.

>>43846125
Okay, was just wondering as I was thinking of adding some Daemonettes in Spartans to my Word Bearers.

I'd like to think they used that as a tactic at some point to scare the fuck out of Loyalists.

>>43845994
>>43845688
One thing that is fairly good about Dorn (admittedly needing a big game and a lot of cash) is that his ride will save points - it's cheaper than a normal Thunderhawk despite the mods

Not cheap (either way), but it's a hell of a thing to bring to a fight

>>43846172
>you sometimes forget the semantic differences.
Well the key difference is that battle brothers can use other transport and sworn brothers cannot.

But I suppose if that was intended it would be explicitly mentioned.

>>43846200
That's the same with perty though IIRC.

I feel like he should be more of a force multiplier primarch than he actually is at the moment.

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>>43846264

>>43846264
I think so, but I think it saves a lot more points - it's ~600 and comes with a Turbolaser, and a normal Thuderhawk is ~900 iirc?

>>43845781
Ehh, depends what the rest of your list is. I have 3 Contemptors and they tend to draw a lot of fire. So I run them cheap.

>>43846299
that's what I just said anon, that's a difference that isn't semantic.

Hey guys i've been into Horus Heresy last few months and with Calth have had a whole bunch of people want to get into it as well.

We are playing 1500 point games this weekend with possibly some doubles games happening as well. Came up with this for my Iron Warriors. I wanted to go with a generalist kind of army seeing as I have no idea who im fighting or who my double might be.

+++ Iron Warriors (1500pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1500pts) ++

+ HQ (90pts) +

Legion Centurion (90pts) [Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Refractor Field]

+ Troops (505pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

Legion Tactical Squad (265pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

+ Elites (245pts) +

Apothecarion Detachment (45pts) [Legion Apothecary]

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (200pts)
····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Heavy Flamer, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon]

+ Heavy Support (660pts) +

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Heavy Flamer]

Iron Havoc Support Squad (325pts) [8x Iron Havoc, 8x Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles)]

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts)

>>43846264
I just meant that the writer forgot which term was the 30k one, not that they were interchangeable of course.

>>43846190
I see no issue with these. Not much Daemons in WB lists as I see it.

>>43846200
Is it? I guess I've never really looked at the Thunderhawk profiles. Is a normal Thunderhawk good value?

>>43846392
Format your list better, it's full of rendundant stuff and is difficult reading.

>>43846422
>I see no issue with these. Not much Daemons in WB lists as I see it.
Well idea of turning a Spartan into Slaaneshi pleasure dungeon amuses me greatly.

I guess if anyone opposed it I could act like rules lawyer dickhead, but I don't think it would actually be that strong in actual play.

Mock up list incoming

>>43839325
fuck me, you care way too much buddy.

>>43839325
>says "fag" and "newfag" aren't /tg/ related
>uses the word "Fail." as its own sentence unironically

See this is the kind of cringey autists generals attract.

>2015
>saying fail
lol fucking faggot.

>>43846540

Or he's just a newfag. Who talks about /b/ anymore anyway.

>>43842441
Yeah, but the problem is not FW. There's so much speculation, wishlisting and etc going on, that peoples expectations keep going up.

>>43846647
There are people who will always try to find something to be disappointed about. Sucks to be them.

Word Bearers + Daemons 3k points
Rite of War: Pride of the Legion

HQ:

Erebus - 195 points

Elites:

8 Gal' Vorbak, Dark Martyr w/ a Tainted weapon - 360 points
>Erebus goes here

Contemptor Dreadnought talon, both with power fist + kheres assault cannon - 380 points

Troops:

3 x 10 Veteran Tacticals, 2 Heavy Bolters w/ Suspender webs, Rhino transport - 825 points
>most likely take sniper doctrine

Heavy Support:

2 x Spartan Assault tank, Armoured ceramite, Frag Launchers - 315 points
>laser destroyers or no?

Total: 2410 points

Allied Chaos Daemon Detatchment

HQ:

2 x Herald of Slaanesh, Exalted Locus of Beguilement, 1 Greater reward (Greater Etherblade) - 190 points

Troops:

2 x 19 Daemonettes, Allures w/ Greater Etherblade - 392
>each squad takes a spartan
total: 572

What do you guys think?

If there's a lot of S10 on the board I might put Erebus in a spartan and deepstrike a daemon squad.

Not many flyers in my meta so I'm just ignoring anti-air.

>>43847455
Your list isn't legal. Go read the Word Bearer rules and get back to us.

>>43836951
>>43843290
Banestrikes when fired by combi bolters are 9.18% more effective than volkite chargers against Marines.

The volkites have some advantages in that they pop light vehicles. If you compare the difference in point value, you aren't paying that much more over regular terminators; only if you WANT volkites. For 15 points more you get higher WS, and Stubborn. They do make decent vehicle and monster hunters. Conversion beamer loadouts are better for smaller units that can walk on your back table edge to grab objectives or outflank.

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>>43847653
Keep in mind, chainfists are some of the most reliable ways to pop av14 (besides Sicarans) with all the ceramite plating.

>forgot pic

>>43846879
True dat

>>43847584
Not>>43847455

Istvann Campaign pg 76.

Erebos' "Harbinger of Chaos" rule allows you to ally demons.

Seems like a fun list, rush the spartans forward to grab objectives/tarpit with demons?

I'm also guessing you have 2 contemptor dreadnoughts in that talon?

>>43847776
Like I said, he should go read the Word Bearers rules and get back to us. His list isn't legal. Has nothing to do with daemon allies.

Well, I caved in and bought a Fridgenought

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>>43847826
It looks good with a decent paint scheme

>>43847837
Welp I'm sold. XIX/10

Drop in a dreadpod in a DS RoW and go to town. Can't decide between drill or claw though. Def taking bombard and probably phosphex

>>43847826
highly considering one for my iron warriors
only problem is i'm not going to do a deepstrike-y rite of war so might be a bit difficult to get him where he needs to be

>>43847931
The Leviathan gets a drop pod as a DT. Why would you need to Orbital Assault RoW?

>>43847973
>>43847931

Dreadnoughts talon of 1 dread can deep strike on a pod regardless of the RoW, unless the RoW in question says that you cant deep strike like the IF one.

>>43847996
>>43847973
oh baby
didnt realize you could always take a drop pod for dreads
i think i might take 2, one in a pod for CC and one with 2 storm cannons for fucking people up at range

>>43847837
Thats such a retarded pose, like a baby trying to be sexy. Thats one small base in my opinion, reminds me of marines in 25mm bases.

Love the model.

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>>43847837

>>43847814
Charismatic leadership pg 72..

>>43848307
Yay, you can read.

>>43848010
new weapons are coming apparently including some melta type weapon (I'm hoping magna melta)

Solar Auxilia question guys:
What troop composition should I go for when I like both the storm veletaris and the lasrifle sections?

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>>43848706
>Dreadnought mounted magna-melta

>>43845688
I'm still hoping we get updated rules for Dorn when the Battle of Terra book ever comes out. I mean it even mentions in Dorn's write up that he has a lot more powerful gear in his possession, just that the gear he uses now are more nostalgic for him. At least thats how i read it, which kind of makes sense and goes along with Dorn's personality.

Maybe he will break out the bigger guns when his back is against the wall on Terra...well there is hope anyways for IF fans.

Even with Dorn's rules as is, IF have pretty good Legion rules and Special characters, although Wardens are a bit underwhelming too when compared to regular breachers.

>>43845688
>Is Plasma-wave forces you to reroll a successful cover save, can you then reroll the reroll if you are eligible to reroll failed cover saves?
Always no.

It is a weird situation, where one side gets to re-roll failed saves and the other side forces re-rolling of successful saves. The result being, of course, that the original role has no effect at all (which means it's sensible to cancel out both rules, which is just another way of saying "I already did an imaginary roll and now I'm re-rolling all of those imaginary rolls").

But you never get to chain those re-rolls along to re-roll a re-roll.

Even in standard 40K this comes up sometimes.

>>43848857
They also have the strongest character who isnt a Primarch. Sigismund should beat every other IC in the game.

>>43848857

Pretty sure it has already been said that the Traitor Primarchs are going to eventually get new rules and models as a result of changes they go through, could see the same happening for Loyalist.

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>>43846026
>>43846108
>If you and you're opponent agree, why not?

Exactly. Which is why I find GW's constant answering of rules questions with "decide it with your opponent" to be so baffling.

We can ALREADY DO THAT if that's what we want to do. I want to know what to do when we CAN'T agree to do that. That's what a rule is!

Alright, looking at Sallies. I've got a vague idea in mind for a 2500 Covenant of Fire list, and am currently sitting at 2435.

>HQ
(875) Legion Praetor [Cataphractii, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Master-crafted Thunderhammer]
-4x Firedrake Terminator Squad [3x Dragonscale Storm Shield, Heavy Flamer, 4x Thunderhammer]
--Firedrake Master [Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunderhammer]
-Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armored Ceramite, Flare Shield]

>Troops
(180) 18x Legion Tactical Space Marines
-Sergeant [Artificer Armor, Artificer Weapon, Power Weapon]
(265) 18x Legion Tactical Space Marines
-Sergeant [Artificer Armor, Artificer Weapon, Power Weapon]
(285) 9x Pyroclast Squad [Melta Bombs]


>Elites
(90) Apothecarion Detachment [2x Apothecaries]
(155) Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [2x Multi-Meltas]

>Heavy Support
(150) Legion Artillery Tank Squadron
-Legion Whirlwind [Hyperios Missiles]
-Legion Whirlwind [Hyperios Missiles]
(175) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]
(175) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]

My big worries are my Troop selections. I'm worried the Pyroclasts might not be protected enough, and that the Tac squads won't be as effective at tarpitting/throwing dice as I imagine them. Any advice you guys can offer?

>>43848987

Oh and naturally that is a typo in the cost of the first tac Squad, sorry.

>>43842441
I'm very worried about the recent reports over the Specialist Games plan though. It's been suggested that GW wants to take over HH and banish FW to making non-40k-compatible games, because HH as currently designed competes at the macro level with the popularity of 40K, and at the micro level with the sales of the plastic 40K Space Marine line in their stores.

GW is just stupid/consumer hostile enough to do it. They probably also figure they can get *all* the gold now instead of 1 golden egg for the next two-decades-plus, so they're sharpening their axe.

I'm fully expecting (though it kills me inside) that GW will force FW to wrap up the whole HH within in two years (which is 3, maaaybe 4 more books), and that means all of their long-term plans (daemon primarchs, scouring-era alternative primarchs, full lists for Rogue Traders/Sisters of Silence/Custodes, Emperator titan, etc) are basically not happening now.

Who has the best rivalry in the setting? Which are your favorites?

My ranking
Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors
Ultramarines/Word Bearers
Space Wolves/Thousand Sons
Dark Angels/Night Lords


and not really an official rivalry I would like to see more Salamanders/Death Guard as I think both Legions could use some more spotlight.

Also surprised they never tried to push a Fulgrim/Hawk-boy rivalry, I always though Fulgrim would be jealous as fuck of Sanguinus since he was always pushing for beauty and perfection and most people always pointed to Sanguinus as being those things in the fluff.

Seemed more like a fit than the fight with Manus

>>43849114

>I'm very worried about the recent reports over the Specialist Games plan though. It's been suggested that GW wants to take over HH and banish FW to making non-40k-compatible games, because HH as currently designed competes at the macro level with the popularity of 40K, and at the micro level with the sales of the plastic 40K Space Marine line in their stores.

Stop. This is Whineseer/Dakkadakka levels of absolute stupidity.

There's no reason for GW to do anything because in either case they make money, FW can't walk away and take HH with them.

>lizardmen army is now taking up residence in a tupperware container, never to be seen again
>battlefoam is cleared out for the iron warriors to occupy
this is bittersweet
i'm gonna miss you, dickass dinobros

>>43847455
>>43847776
You need at least two HQs if you're using a FOC that has at least two HQ slots (which you are, since you've got an allied FOC and are using a Rite of War).

RAW, you always need the second HQ to be a Chaplain. Erebus is a chaplain, but he can't be the second HQ if you don't have a first. The first can be anything (that isn't a Support Officer/can't be compulsory) because Erebus is the warlord and a chaplain and a Master of the Legion, so the other HQ doesn't need to be any of those things.

>>43848919
>Sigismund should beat every other IC in the game.
Yeah, one-on-one. When does that ever happen?

It's like the people who complain about Kor Phaeron being T3 as if they weren't going to stick him with 10 T5 Gal Vorbak. Anyone who's standing by themselves would die even if they had T10, including Primarchs if they spend a turn or two in the open.

There are a number of configurations that will wreck Sigi and his bodyguard in CC, whatever form that bodyguard takes.

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>>43849188
Dark Angels/Space Wolves

It even gets bonus points because they end up buddycopping their way to Terra.

>>43849324
It's not stupid. It may turn out to be wrong, but right now there are way too many bits of known true information to write it off it completely until we know some other way that they fit.

>There's no reason for GW to do anything because in either case they make money, FW can't walk away and take HH with them.
Say Person X plays 40K marines and gets into 30K. He has a budget of, say, $100 per month for 40K. If he buys 30K, he gets less, but $100 is $100 either way. But even though GW still gets $100, the $100 that doesn't go through the store means that the store loses out because it pays rent, etc., while Forge World's costs are pretty much all sunk costs already.

The effect is that GW either has to waste money on unproductive stores, or suffer the strategic loss of closing more stores, which diminishes customer recruitment potential (based on their antiquated pre-internet method of doing it) and gives independent stockists more leverage over them. Both are unacceptable, so the solution is to kill Forgeworld (or the role it plays in the scenario).

Forgeworld originally produced incidental stuff like terrain or "fluffy" vehicles like the Salamander and the Arvus and the Trojan, which didn't compete with their main product and can't be used to form armies or even the core of an army. People who bought that stuff were exclusively people who would otherwise have bought nothing. Now you can buy entire armies without every touching a plastic kit.

GW is wrong and dumb to look at it like this; they should see it as "Forgeworld is more efficient than stores because it doesn't have the extra costs that stores have, so we should do more stuff the Forgeworld way", but they've put so much money into their stores (and are so old-fashioned in their business thought) that they won't change and they won't accept Forgeworld as a competitor to themselves either.

>>43849622
Wouldn't they be more likely to offer FW in their stores then?

Isn't the new CEO the former head of FW? Why would he fuck with his powerbase?

>>43849622
Enjoy worrying all you want. In the meantime sensible people will just enjoy the hobby.

>>43849622

>It's not stupid.

Yes, yes it is. It's basically the same stupid bullshit that Whineseer and Dakkadakka claim as the reason why specialist games were canned, because they took money away from 40k and Fantasy. It couldn't have just been that they attained a cult following and ultimately performed poorly financially and weren't seen as worth keeping around or supporting at the time.

HH is popular, but it's not as popular as 40k and will always have a barrier to entry as long as it requires you to drop ookabooka amounts of cash on an army.

GW stores are more threatened by someone deciding to place an order online than they are by FW.

>which diminishes customer recruitment potential (based on their antiquated pre-internet method of doing it)

And what would you suggest they do? Marketing sounds smart on paper until you realize you're already pretty much targeting all the people you're likely to get, people who go into games stores/hobby stores and video game players. GW's product is simply too expensive and too fiddly to be on the shelves of toy stores or stores like Walmart. Their best chance if they wanted to target those areas would be putting out board games with simple models.

>>43849695
Current CEO is Kevin Rountree

Head of Forge World and now also head of Specialist Products is Tony Cottrell.

GW is not going to take HH away from FW. Hell, BaC was a SPDS project, not GW prime and SPDS is under the FW brand.

>>43849695
>Wouldn't they be more likely to offer FW in their stores then?
Indeed it would!

Makes you wonder why they've never done that...

Especially since one of the most oft-quoted reasons I've heard for people not buying Forgeworld is the massive shipping cost, and that the free shipping is counter-productive with the weekly release cycle since people rarely put in orders for the newest thing while also spending enough to attain free shipping, on a weekly basis. Plus all their shipping does a double-hop to regional distribution centers to save on shipping in bulk.

And the new website runs on the same back-end as the new GW website so order codes and everything else would be all taken care of.

>>43849905

>Makes you wonder why they've never done that...

Because GW can't pick and choose who gets FW stuff and there are seemingly too many stores where FW will languish on the shelves compared to stores where it will be snapped up.

Why you can't get free shipping if you order from a GW store or have it delivered is another matter entirely and one I don't have an answer for. Could have something to do with the fact that they're hellbent on only taking pounds for FW product, could be that they can't afford to skimp on the shipping.

>>43846392 Apologies for the previous shitty formatting. Hope this is better. Thinking of dropping the Havocs to a 5 man squad and shave some points elsewhere for a couple of quad gun mortars.

Iron Warriors (1500pts)

HQ (90pts)

Legion Centurion (90pts)- Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Refractor Field

Troops (505pts)

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Rhino, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, additonal ccw, Tactical Sergeant with Artificer Armour, Power Fist

Legion Tactical Squad (265pts)- 14x Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, additional ccw, Tactical Sergeant with Artificer Armour, Power Fist

Elites (245pts)

Apothecary (45pts)

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (200pts)- Heavy Flamer, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon

Heavy Support (660pts)

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) -Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Heavy Flamer

Iron Havoc Support Squad (325pts)- 8x Missile Launcher

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts)

>>43845781
If your taking two weapons the same there's very little point in not making it a Mortis

>>43846341
Legion Thunderhawk with the laser is 775

>>43849967
>Why you can't get free shipping if you order from a GW store or have it delivered is another matter entirely and one I don't have an answer for.
That is, of course, exactly what I was talking about. Individual stores can stock individual Forgeworld products if they want, my local store always gets the IA books in, and many UK stores get all sorts of stuff.
>can't afford to skimp on the shipping.
GW has the biggest wargames miniatures distribution network on the planet, everything Forgeworld goes first to their Memphis Distribution Center (the same place all of their Nottingham plastic goes before it's sent out to stores) and then gets individually shipped from there. Same with Hamburg and wherever it is in Singapore.

Even then, the difference would be a rounding error to someone like GW.

>>43849114
>Emperator titan
Oh don't worry, if there is even he smallest hint of a plan to make that GW won't stop it

>>43849760
>And what would you suggest they do?
It validates my point, that's all. If we accept that GW won't/can't recruit other than through their own stores, then they will do anything, up to and including kill Forgeworld, to make those stores as competitive and profitable as possible, sacrificing an obvious cash cow against the strategic benefit of more physical stores.

>Marketing sounds smart on paper until you realize you're already pretty much targeting all the people you're likely to get
I'm not here to argue about this, it's been analyzed a bajillion times by me and the rest of the internet. GW aren't paying me for my opinion and no-one else particularly wants to hear it, so I'm simply going to disagree with your argument.

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This could wait for the next thread, but Garro is up.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-UK/Garro-Hand-of-the-Sigillite

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>>43850974

>It validates my point, that's all. If we accept that GW won't/can't recruit other than through their own stores

Except they also readily use other game and hobby stores and to an extent video games as a form of recruitment.

I was attacking your idea that their form of marketing is antiquated when in my view it's simply an acceptance that their product is a niche one that would struggle to find appeal outside of the areas they're already well entrenched within.

All I'm seeing is non-existent conjecture about FW and GW's physical stores somehow being tied together. It's incredibly more likely GW would try to get FW product into stores or even pulling their product from all non-GW stores before doing what you suggest.

I would sure as shit buy any of FW's books from my local GW store, I'd welcome possibly not being fucked over by conversion and then again by shipping.

All in all, seems like poorly thought out fear mongering to me.

>>43851040

Rules too