Warmachine and Hordes

What warnouns would do well in the IK Hunger Games?

File: 1429592203576.png (157KB, 383x466px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 383x466px

Got a tourney coming up for thanksgiving weekend.

Should I try to play Khador in an attempt to git gud with them or should I stick to my usual of trolls, albeit my lists are bit experimental?

>>43768114
Play what you know.

Also, Khador is terrible and Trolls are very likely in the top 3 in terms of faction strength right now, so jumping ship to Khador to be competitive makes no sense.

>>43768050
Fluff wise? Haley for sure, PP has a fluff bonner for her and she's effectively a magic god now

Guys I had a nightmare.
I dream Kekvergence of Shitris got a release

>>43768050
Karchev wouldn't be that terrible at it

File: Grim.jpg (65KB, 492x718px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 492x718px

>>43768050
grim surely? He was killing and capturing people in the woods for fun when most warnouns were still reading books and crying about dead parents.

of course being lost in the woods favors hordes anyway just like the wargame

>>43771598
Until he runs out of gas.

It pains me that while the combat system and balancing of Warmachine/Hordes are far superior to Warhammer 40K, the model design is generally too cartooney or goofy for my taste. Warjacks are especially bad.

Any neat ideas to which Warmahordes faction's models I could substitute with 40K figures? Is there a size difference in bases?

>>43772486
Admech work for convergence.

The rest is too unique and the scales are off.

Guys I'm jumping on that Legion train because I'm tired of losing with Skorne. Just bought

Vayl2
2 Heavy Warbeast kits
2 Angelii
Pasta Pot
2 Shepherds
1 of each lesser warbeast

Did I done do good? What to buy next?

>>43772600
Probably legionnaires.

>>43772486
>Is there a size difference in bases?
PP and GW use different base sizes. Base size in Warmahordes is extemely important, so you'd need to get some different bases if you wanted to use GW minis to proxy.

Also, just to be clear, GW figures aren't going to be tourney legal unless you have a ridiculously open TO. For casual play, you might be okay, just depends on your opponent.

>>43772629

Seconding either this or Hex Hunters. You need a unit to feed your pot. I prefer Legionnaires since they're cheaper and survive blasts better, but go with what you like better.

You'll also need a third heavy beast to finish up eVayl tier. You'll probably want to end up with something like this:

2 Angelii
2 Ravagores
1 Scythean
1 Harrier
1 Pot
1 full Legionnaires/ Hex Hunters

>>43772600
Hexhunters for machinations. Way better than legionairs IMO

>>43772600
Forsaken.

>>43772600
Archangel

>>43772486
I've seen Dark Elves used as Legion models and even as Satyxis. That might help.

Bases in this game are 30, 40, 50 and 120 mm.

I found the models just grew on me. Even the ones I didn't like could easily be modified to look nice.

File: Bayou_Gators.thumb.jpg.5e2cca7134d06a32ceb8ad824cb03c8d.jpg (64KB, 600x560px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 600x560px

Hmm potentially good stand ins for bull snappers? I wonder if they're similar sizes

>>43775884
one of the things that gets ignored with a lot of conversions i think is that it doesn't really matter, all that matters from adesign standpoint are:

Does it it fit on the same base size?
Does it have the same TYPE of weapon represented on the original

As that's a crocodile on 4 legs you might struggle for point one, but if it fits it's regulation

>>43775884
They're supposed to go on 40mm bases, so they should be fine size wise.

Any tips for painting the sacral vault? I'm newer to the hobby aspect and haven't painted anything as large as it before.

>>43777887
Do you own an airbrush? If no, are you a faithful person?

>>43772600
>Guys I'm jumping on that Legion train because I'm tired of losing with Skorne

Lol, I fucking hear you there. Newb skorne, plays mostly vs Legion. That faction just seems so much better.

>>43778208
>>43772600
>jumping to an easier faction
The empire will not be missing you.

>>43778139
I don't own an airbrush, what do?

>>43778374
Before or after despairing? If you don't have an airbrush you'll just have to power through it. Is there a color that makes up >40% of the model? Maybe you can get a primer for that color to save time with that initial layer.

>>43778470
A good portion of it is going to be gray if that helps

>>43778663
You deffinatly dont need an airbrush for the sacral vault. It doesnt have a lot of flat surfaces and there is quite a bit of detail

>>43780487
Yeah just do in spurts.

First pass use simple base coating and shake your paints well. Consistency is key as always but its not as critical on huge based models.


Just....going to take a really long time.

>>43780938
Idk I think hand painting it would be the way to go

Lets wishlist/post some interesting or weird ideas

Wish-list:
Inflictor
Bloodgorger UA that grants relentless charge maybe
Black Ogren UA that grants fearless and maybe CRA
Blighted Troll warnoun, for cryx
Venethrax, Morty and Termy 2
Medium based Bane unit (with boxes)

Weird idea: Gaspy as horrible warcaster warlock hybrid (since he used to be a druid)

>>43786159
>Weird idea
More coc releases

>>43786159
A Revenant Crew UA that grants them Stealth so the Quartermaster can hang back.
A Cryx warcaster with Defender's Ward (never happening).
A ranged Cryx unit that doesn't suck like Black Ogruns. Preferably undead.
More Revenant solos that grant them buffs akin to Sea Dog solos.
An undead Pirate Warcaster who's less like Terminus and more like the DSM appearance wise.
A character helljack for Goreshade so you have some use for Horseshade's jack points.

>>43786230
I kinda like the idea of a ranged satyxis or bane unit

>>43786269
Fuck Satyxis. Less sluts, more zombies and/or skeletons.

>>43786269

I'd actually like to see a Merc Satyxis Warcaster.

The old fluff had them as being hired by all sorts of pirates but you can't actually run them in pirates. A Satyxis Warcaster who can bring a unit of Satyxis like how Highborn brings gunmages would be cool.

>>43786159
Deliverer artilerist solo
crossbow light jack
Idrian camelry
warcaster with spell ward and inviolable resolve
3 man character unit of cleansers

more mercenary units

How fun is the RPG? My DM is looking to use it as the basis for a planescape game.

>>43786230
Because, you know, that's what Cryx needs, a solid ranged game to go with their excellent spell slinging and incredible melee damage.

>>43786230
No, fuck you.

>>43768050
Servath Reznik would probably win in my opinion.

When will Ios, Rhul, Cryx, and Zu get the IKRPG Kings, Nations, and Gods treatment?

>>43786230
>A Cryx warcaster with Defender's Ward (never happening).
Good. That shouldn't ever happen.

>A character helljack for Goreshade so you have some use for Horseshade's jack points.
Like a Kraken? Or ArcChicken? Or Helldiver? Horseshade really doesn't need more tech.

>>43786602
I think it isn't really suited for that. It's tied pretty closely to the setting.

>>43787278
Soon (tm)

I just want more lore about the other lich lords

People playing the RPG:

Your most recent character is now a TT warcaster. What faction are they from/what do they do?

>>43788792
Oh fuck! this question made me stop and think.

I posted on here a million threads ago basically hoping someone could give me a quick primer on how much roleplay is too much (having come from only wargaming) and how much my mistrustful innawoods Farrow warlock should realistically do without dragging the game down in tiny details.

The advice I got was pretty good, and the guys i was with (thankfully a new group so no in-jokes or homebrew to tackle with) kinda went with it...

So... Farrow warlock, llaeleese resistance, he can take a bunch of discounted steelheads in his tier list i guess? (but would be limited to a battlegroup of razor boars and gun boars).

it would be kinda weird for him to be leading though, our adventurers are basically "the dirty dozen; Laell edition" and are pretty much just the toughest guys they could sweep the Cygnaran dungeons with a promise of clemency for, lead by a llaeese nobleman. Me and the Gatorman Bokor are pretty much just "those guys we occasionally trust to leave the camp for a bit so they can come back with the ingredients for The Best Soup You Never Want To Hear The Source Of, some armour bits, some alchemical grenades and cures, sometimes zombies, and in one case a shrunken human head that screams in Khadoran when the bokor casts a spell on it.

>>43786709
Legion is allowed to have their Ravagores and Stalkers, Protectorate is allowed to have their Errants and Reckoners...

>>43787310
You're stupid if you think that Goreshade won't be the next warcaster to get a character jack.

>>43789213
Yeah but tough free standup stealthed Bane thralls kind of bend the faction
Melee heavy.

I understood we would never get a ranged unit because of our cheap and easy access to arcnodes and our insane infantry.

The problem with Cryx is that it's getting stale since the new releases don't give us a playstyle that is both effective and different.

>>43789213
Yes, those factions are allowed to have faction-defining stuff. You can have your in-faction ranged unit if you hand in your banes. All of them. Until then, please stick to Nyss Hunters that kind of failed to notice that your dragon also has blight.

>>43789222
I never said that. He might get one, but he just doesn't need it. He has plenty good jack options and other casters need it more. Also, giving more tech to one of the strongest casters in the game seems kind of dumb.

>>43789409
>The problem with Cryx is that it's getting stale since the new releases don't give us a playstyle that is both effective and different.
Play Denny3. Take 7-8 hell divers. Drink tears.

>>43789530
Nah, you're an idiot. Protectorate has more weapon master infantry than Cryx, and also one of the best ranged units in the game.

>>43789769
>Protectorate has more weapon master infantry than Cryx
So what? They have a large variety of mediocre weaponmasters, Cryx has a smaller variety of good weaponmasters. Designing for a faction with Banes is entirely different than designing for a faction with Exemplar.

>>43789769
You must be joking/trolling. Protectorate does not have Parasite, Denny1's feat, Skarre1's feat or anything comparabale to what Cryx can do for armor cracking. Also, one of the best ranged units in the game? Please excuse me but the last time I checked Errants and Zaelots were nowhere near as good at shooting people as Nyss or Croaks.

>>43789547
The question will always be asked
>Why aren't you playing Gaspy2?

Because my friends are try hards, and my faith in the game is shaken whenever someone drops their crazy shit on me and I can't think of an answer.

>>43790049
>Why aren't you playing Gaspy2?
Then answer as follows: Because Denny1, Skarre1 and Shade3 are just as good.

Also, you can't have Lich2 as both of your casters.

File: 1469398111215894595.gif (2MB, 480x266px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 480x266px

I love that trolls have somehow supplanted Cryx as the 'fuck that guy' faction. I've gotten more hate in the last year playing Trolls than I ever did aging Cryx or Haley2.

It's glorious

>>43790049
Gaspy is a great caster, and my favorite by far, but you are by no means gimping yourself by not playing him

>>43790113
I use Skarre1 and Denny1 as my other lists, but it falls prey to the same ennui as Gaspy2.

Meh. It is what it is.

>>43791437
No I mean my opponent asks that, usually after me getting stomped. It's getting to meme' status.

I know there are other good casters out there, but when you look across the table and see colossals and some variation of Meat Mountain you just think "Here we go again"

My love affair with this game is ending.

File: 1447026300905.png (383KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

383KB, 500x375px

>>43791518

File: imageedit_5_3926652584.png (563B, 480x512px) Image search: [Google]

563B, 480x512px

>>43791540
This is why threads die.
Any sort of real discussion gets shut down with butthurt and memes.

Granted... That was a pretty mopey post.

We can't talk about anything. No one posts painting stuff. We can't make fun lists without some faggot telling us to shut it. You can't say anything bad about any faction aside from Cryx.

There is nothing to talk about, and what little there is dies four responses in.

Literally the only thing that kept the last thread going was because people bickered about their opinions on the future of the game.

WTF is the point of having a general if the only discussion to be had is about tourney stuffs?

>>43791658
Wait, you're complaining that people are being assholes on 4chan?

Like, it does not matter what the fuck you post, there's always going to be a faggot to tell you to shut it.

File: received_10207763069254609.jpg (88KB, 720x1078px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 720x1078px

>>43791658
This is because 4chan is awful place full of awful people.

In the case of /wmhg/ it's just trolls trolling trolls. There are plenty of good discussions to have, people are just angry, bitter, assholes

Sure there are issues with the game, but online community is awful at voicing concerns or discussing things

>>43791658
>>This is why threads die.
>Any sort of real discussion gets shut down with butthurt and memes.


no it's casual shitposters that want to change the game rather than adapt and overcome. They come here and shitpost more and more complaining and THAT is the true reason the threads die.

>>43791795
There's nothing wrong with playing the game casually.

There is a problem with being a shitty player

>>43788792

Hana Val Kala

Circle Ouroboros. (While she's got some internal conflict between her temptation to the Menite faith and her loyalty to the Circle Ouroboros she's nowhere near conflicted enough to be Merc or Partisan)

A dedicated spellcaster with Immunity: Fire and arm-leaning defensive stats. High fury but zero spells for boosting beasts. Mostly focused on ranged support and blasting.

Her feat gives Boosted spell and blast damage rolls by models in her command area.

Her tier list lets her take Deliverer Models as In-Faction models (The big thing she's done in the campaign is organize a truce between a Protectorate artillery battery and herself to work together to protect a town from the Skorne)

I don't actually play Circle so I've no clue if they've got USE for a Ranged Support Warlock who makes people wonder if Seige Brisbane and Feora have been doing the nasty.

>>43791812
>There's nothing wrong with playing the game casually.
>
>There is a problem with being a shitty player

and thus i'd easly say 99% of the casual players are the shitty players.

>>43792087
You don't get it.

A casual player is someone who just plays for fun, plays whatever they want, and doesn't really give a fuck.

A shitty player is usually someone who is trying to be competitive but can't handle losing. They bitch and moan about 'x' and want 'x' nerfed, removed, whatever. They cannot or will not adapt or change up their game.

There's a distinctive difference between these kind of players. Don't hate on casuals, they're the lifeblood of this game and keep it going.

>>43792087
>>43792157
Meant to add, the people you see bitching on here and on the PP boards are shitty players that want to be competitive but aren't good enough and are unwilling to change up their game.

Casuals aren't ever going to post in those threads. They're too busy laughing at shitty players or doing something else

>>43791658
The real reason why jank lists get shut down is because people have no fucking thoughts about their list.

>I put trenchers in because I want trenchers
>why?
>because
>don't do it then
>netlisting anti fun faggot, abloo abloo.

Every goddamn time. People need to realize they get what they put into it in the first place.

>>43792186
>why?
>because

Normally if you encounter a casual player running trenchers it's to fit with the fluff of cygnar. Trenchers compose the majority of the Cygnar arm forces correct?

It's not just 'Because'

>>43792238
Then there wouldn't be any need to post the list in the first place.

The books have statistical data on number of trenchers and specialists in people's army. You wouldn't need peer review on a list if the list is building on a template.

>>43792325
expecting strict adherence to the listing is also unreasonable. If I want trenchers for fluff reasons, then asking what my best backup would be is entirely reasonable.

If for instance I want to run Gallant with no morrowan support because i like the jacks looks, and I accept that this will be less than ideal I see no reason why a critic can't work with that.

>>43792325
People still want advice on their lists.

No, advice on casual fluff lists isn't necessary, but people will ask anyway to get ideas. Alternatively, they're new and don't know that Trenchers are bad yet and end up trying to build lists around them

>>43792386
Wanting to put gallant due to looks and putting trenchers due to deployment stats are different things.

Asking for gallant inclusion isn't based on any pre-existing army template. You leave yourself open to all sorts of builds, many of them functional.

Asking trenchers because majority of the army are trenchers mean that you are doing it for fluff numbers. I haven't busted open the cygnar book in a while, but I assume that the stats will include the number of support and jacks like the grenadier. Building for fluff means that the comp is built for you. There is no need to ask.

>>43792520
Secondly, asking for just a simple "I want gallant without morrowans" is also pretty terrible as a question. It's too open ended

File: 1447969524677.jpg (13KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 225x225px

Madrak's Winter Kin theme list when?

>>43792599
There's no more early releases for the NQ for subscribers anymore, is there?

>>43792638
Nope

>>43792520
>Building for fluff means that the comp is built for you

You can have a nod to the fluff without going hole hog.

>>43792557
>"I want gallant without morrowans" is also pretty terrible as a question.
It's actually an easy question to answer. In the best case, Gallant outside of ConnieB is a 3-point overcosted Nomad, so just take any list that runs a Nomad and chop out three points.

Now why anyone would want to run a random Gallant when they could get the objectively cooler and more sexually attractive Rocinante for the same cost, THAT is a hard question.

Calling it now, Madraks new list is nothing but huge based models and a giant fuck you Trolls sign from PP.

Because seriously, fuck trolls and their stupid bullshit

>>43792729
Gallant is Cygnar model, you can't take Merc jacks with Cygnar casters

>>43792769
Gallant is a Cygnar ally model

>>43792769
Dude. It's a Cygnaran Ally-

>>43792769
Don't lie anon, people don't run Gallant in Cygnar.

>>43792769
>>43792781
Oh. That's what you meant. Never mind then.

File: 1447272541668.jpg (52KB, 600x604px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 600x604px

>>43792781
>>43792787
>>43792808
Being an ally doesn't change the fact that you can't take Nomads and Rocinante with a Cygnar caster

>>43792769
Ok, if we're talking a Cygnar list, then you just take a list with a Stormclad and replace it with Gallant. Point being, "I want Gallant wut do" is the easiest question ever because it's just a shitty version of whatever Reach heavy you'd normally be running so the substitution is easy.

Now let's leave this mythical fantasy land where a Cygnar player would even consider putting Gallant into an army that isn't Constance's theme force.

>>43792855
And your hypothetical is flawed, no Cygnar player would ever ask such a question.

The primary defining feature of Gallant is that he's Blue and Shitty. Cygnar already has Blue jacks, so the idea that a Cygnar player would single out Gallant is a logical fallacy. Thus the question is only valid with relation to Merc lists because they don't otherwise have Blue warjacks.

>>43792860
>Now let's leave this mythical fantasy land where a Cygnar player would even consider putting Gallant into an army that isn't Constance's theme force.
Or on Jakes with Haley3.

>>43792903
We're talking about casual lists, it doesn't matter what you think of Cygnar players. Please stop making assumptions

This does not change that you cannot take Merc jacks with Cygnar casters.

>>43792035
>Her tier list lets her take Deliverer Models as In-Faction models (The big thing she's done in the campaign is organize a truce between a Protectorate artillery battery and herself to work together to protect a town from the Skorne)

That actually sounds pretty cool.

File: 1428738610350.gif (2MB, 580x433px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 580x433px

>>43792975
>menites working with druids
>cool

>>43792940
>This does not change that you cannot take Merc jacks with Cygnar casters.
Actually, you're the only one assuming that anyone was talking about that. The only thing said related to Gallant was "I want gallant without morrowans", which is a valid statement for both Merc and Cygnar lists, and the overall conversation was only related to Cygnar because Trenchers got used as an example, it had nothing to do with Cygnar specifically.

So you're the one making assumptions here, shitlord.

>>43788792

Joston Stonehide

Trollking Merc caster

He was a stone sorcerer/Jack marshal and his main thin was casting solid ground and then spamming earthquake/grenades everywhere. his melee weapon is a pickaxe with trash

low mat/rat/def due to a mechanica arm and leg but he never needed it because of quake and base 21 arm by the time we ended the campaign.

his feat would give either his battle group or warrior models in his control knockdown and/or trash

>>43793296
Trollkin will never use prosthetics because it grows back.

Also it sounds like you are just mashing magnus, gorten and durgen

>>43793428

I actually just made the character when I didn't know anything about the setting and just wanted to make a decent support caster. I didn't know he was supposed to be albino for a long time lol

>>43792186
I feel that "I like them" or "I just painted them up" are also valid reasons for fielding sub par units (if said person doesnt complain about their underperformance)

When is the next NQ coming out anyway? Its this month, right?

>>43793906
Wednesday

>>43793906
Wednesday.

>>43793851
I don't even mind complaining outside of a 'denialist' mindset (i.e. Don't be happy you won, my army was shit etc.)

A Model's utility ought to be reflected in their point cost. Elaborating on PP's fuck ups ought to be par for the course.

>>43794154
A lot of the core book stuff is related to the tragedy that was the Mk2 playtest.

Shit like Trenchers got overnerfed because they were so good beforehand.

>>43794154
>A Model's utility ought to be reflected in their point cost

so gaspy should have 0 jack points and grayle should have 10 beast points

>>43794238
some new stuff is still not good though

brigand warlord for example

>>43794245
>so gaspy should have 0 jack points and grayle should have 10 beast points

sub-par choices in a tuned competitive game are not choices, so if you want the choice of caster to be an actual choice you have to balance the raw point counts and have suitable intagiables for a given caster.

What those two casters negative points, and abilities/statline ought to be I have no way of evaluating off the top of my head.

>>43794361
This does not apply to casual environments as much, ppl are more willing to take there lumps in that context for a intentional poor choice made for reason outside strict utility.

>>43793851
If you like them, you should be able to back them up. I like bushwackers over highwaymen, despite the popular opinion, but I have reasons for liking them such as foot prints, los and range.

Just saying "I like trenchers" is just not useful or relevant to list building at all.

>>43794292
It's funny, people who don't play minions think he's terrible but actual Minion players love the guy

>>43794476
He's not bad with Carver, the one lock taking Brigands anyways.

Reform combined with Quadmire is a pretty decent combo for a unit you were already using to tarpit.

Question: What color is Trollkin blood? I want to know for painting purposes

>>43794513
Red.

>>43767644
35 pts. Haley2 Army for casual environment without Colossals: Go!

So far I have:

Major Victoria Haley (*5pts)
* Thorn (8pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
Storm Tower (2pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard (3pts)
* 3 Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3pts)
Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)

Yay or nay? Considered going Stormcallers, but I fear I lack the tactical finesse to utilize them. I also considered using Gun Mages, but I feel like the Stormblades might be better in this list. Any thoughts?

>>43794745
>Haley2
>Casual

Pick one

>>43794857
This.

Every meta is casual until something like that drops and gloves come off.

>>43794857
is there a caster like this for each faction?

Lucant?

>>43794956
Sure, but few casters are as 'No fun allowed' as Haley2

Khador: Butcher3
Menoth: Harbinger
Cryx
Mercs: Thorbreaker
CoC: Lucant

Trolls: Calandra
Circle: Bradigus
Skorne: Karn missile
Legion: Vayl2/Saeryn

>>43794956
Haleys in general
harbinger
butcher 3
Cryx casters
earthbreaker
Ret... not really. Ravyn turns meta ugly quick though.
lucant
doomshaper 1 tier.
Morvahanna 2
Lylyth 2/vayl 2
Molik karn
Rask

>>43795123
I agree with the accepting of Morv2 over Zap Bradigus. Morv2 is at least fair and beatable. Brad just shuts down entire factions

>>43791467
If you want to play guns in cryx, then denny1 is probably your best answer right now. Just take merc models, and apply debuffs.

>>43795030
>>43795123
>unfair casters in Cryx
>All of them

really? Mortenebra?

>>43795155
Bradigus is far more finesse than morvhanna 2 though. Morvhanna 2 just wins because lol attrition, lol purification, lol sunder spirits and light cav.

>>43795226
Arguably the most consistent jack caster winner in the game next to CoC

>>43795297
But Unfair? not so much I would say, unless you think mother of Synth are just op which they very much arent.

>>43795226
Put her in a list that shits 10+ Focus a turn and watch the fireworks.

>>43795226
I was making a joke. Morty is fine and a ton of fun to play. She is however a huge 'gotcha!' caster. Overrun tends to wreck newbies and not be much fun for a casual game

>>43794956
The funny thing about Lucant is that Synth is pretty much the better caster, Lucant just presents one of the toughest bricks in the game.

>>43795552
There is a reason " Lucan't have fun" is a term.

>>43795831
Shit man, I play him.

The best part is when you get guys who haven't played against him or against a good one before and start doing all the wrong shit.

I had some Menoth player drop a pKreoss assassination list into him at Gencon, which was fucking hilarious.

I bought Epic Thagrosh yesterday from my LGS

used and prepainted, to a high quality extent.


Any tips on getting comissions from people? What's a fair rate per model?

Also, what's a good home brew battlebox for EThagrosh so I can play with my starting buddy?

File: 1365852504693.jpg (127KB, 504x470px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 504x470px

>>43797096
eThagrosh
Scythean
Scythean
Shredder

No mercy for scrubs.

>>43797219
I like it.

>>43797096
It really depends on model and level of quality.

People also either charge by hourly or per model too.

So as a Skorne player, I feel like Fist of Halaak just isn't cutting it anymore in my local meta. While they each have 8 boxes, the Cataphracts have shit defensive stats at 12/15 and no way to increase that outside of the feat, Defender's Ward. On top of that, the threat ranges are predictable and the list struggles with control. Do you think it would be better to start playing out of tier with something like double gators and Cetratii, or should I start looking into other casters for infantry bricks? Rasheth maybe? Make a Miserable Mordikaar Mountain?

>>43797757
Mordikaar sounds like your best bet. Get vorkesh and constantly revive your cetratiis.

I started a long time ago when some friends wanted to start and they have since abandoned me. Now I have a bunch of models and no one to play with. Then, I come on here and get sad. I picked Legion because "fucking dragons" and it turns out they're just stupidly good. That's fine and all, but I don't like playing that kind of faction because when I win, I want to feel like it's because I DID something, not because I'm playing the best faction.

What do?

>>43793097

Well, it was a very moderate druid (She's much more Dhunian than Devourer leaning) and a very moderate Warcaster (Grew up in an Idrian tribe that still kept to many of the old pre-protectorate ways).

That and 'Jesus Fuck Skorne. Oh, those are titans. They want to fuck us to death with those titans.'

>>43793428

Actually, it costs an advancement for that to happen. Trollkin heal fast but they are not full trolls, it's actually a real feat for them to manage to regenerate an arm.

>>43798237
Legion is win fast or lose faster.

Once they players wise up to it you end up losing more than winning. Especially if you have any Troll players in the area.

Playing against legion mainly sucks when Legion is playing the "You can't touch me" game. You either get shot off the table or kited to death.

Much like playing against Trolls suck when the play the "I don't give a fuck, you mathematically can't kill me" game.

>>43797757
The answer in Skorne is always more Incindiarii.

>>43798357
Borka is drinking and eating his way to grow his arm and leg back

>>43798357
Most trolls can do it, actually, provided they have enough food and water.

Indeed, several trollkin punishments require specific methods to be used so that they can't regenerate from it, such as cutting off a hand.

>>43798732
I don't have much. A battlebox, pAbby, Scythe, Angel, Typhon, a shepherd, a forsaken, 2 stingers and 2 more Shredders. My time playing was short-lived, but I loved the fuck out of it compared to the rampant 40k that was in the area (I don't even have that anymore).

If I got back in, I don't know if I'd want to keep playing Legion or switch to something else because I'm not terribly invested yet. Maybe $120ish thanks to thrifty shopping.

>>43798904
You have a solid base. Legion is very cheap to continue growing thanks to out beasts being so versatile and our casters having the same themes.

I would stay the course before investing in any other faction. Legion gets a lot of complaints about ignoring rules but most factions do that now through solos,spells and UAs. Ours just come precosted in our kits.

>>43798313

So you really just ignore whatever pre-established lore you want for your character huh? Yea, sounds about right for a Mary Sue.

>I don't actualy play Circle

You also apparently haven't read the lore for either Protectorate or Circle... or any Warmachine lore at all maybe.

whens Barny gonna go Barney2 demi god mode

>>43798313
You do realize that both of those things are basically "Burn them" respones from the PoM, right?

And that the PoM and the Skorne more or less leave each other alone, right?

>>43801094
bastion training is also suspiciously like cataphract training

>>43799319
Hrm. Alright then. Thanks.

Would it matter if I was looking at an actual WM army because I don't feel like dealing with a sperg?

>>43801094
>And that the PoM and the Skorne more or less leave each other alone, right?

didnt Amon and one of the skorne locks have a decent chat with one another or something

>>43801785
amon isnt real - pp

>>43801023
Next year

>>43802235

decided to try to pick up convergence for my second faction

I'm trying for 2 good 35 point armies with as much in common as possible as part of a jouneyman league

System: Warmachine
Faction: Syntherion - The Great Machine
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Tier 4
Forge Master Syntherion (*6pts)
* Corollary (3pts)
* Diffuser (3pts)
* Galvanizer (0pts)
* Mitigator (4pts)
* Cipher (9pts)
* Modulator (6pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Accretion Servitors (1pts)
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
Attunement Servitors (2pts)
Elimination Servitors (2pts)
Elimination Servitors (2pts)
Reflex Servitor (2pts)

and

Faction: Iron Mother Directrix - Carrier Group
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Tiers 3
Iron Mother Directrix & Exponent Servitors (*4pts)
* Corollary (3pts)
* Diffuser (3pts)
* Galvanizer (3pts)
* Mitigator (4pts)
* Assimilator (8pts)
* Cipher (9pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Accretion Servitors (1pts)
Attunement Servitors (2pts)
Elimination Servitors (2pts)
Reflex Servitor (2pts)

any thoughts?

>>43802656
not bad, you picked to two best casters for low model counts with over-lap. With synth personally I perfer at least one inverter to murder what ever it touches with even a few stacks of synergy

>>43802771

thanks. if it's not obvious the hover jack is magetized. on week 6 when I can drop the cipher with synth, I plan to change it to an inverter.

>>43802656
I'd drop the Mitigator in Synth's list along with the two Elimination Servitors and get an Assimilator with him instead.

You should really look into magnetizing the jacks as well, there's not a ton of crossover for jacks in the faction.

Personally, I really like Monitors with Mother, way more than Cipher.

>>43802813

Yeah I agree with those points unfortunately this is for a journeyman league so both lists need to contain a cipher, a mitigator, and a galvanizer

also both of my heavy kits are magnetized

>>43802840
Yeah, Id reccomend getting a second floater kit, running double Assimilation is sweet, and stuffing a million modulators in Synth is a blast

>>43802840
Huh, annoying.

Well, in that context it looks fine, though I think you might be better with 2 Reflex Servitors with Synth. Dig in makes them better roadblocks and objective holders, and Synth doesn't usually have an issue with the kind of models Elimination Servitors want to kill.

As for Mother, an ADO is generally a better choice than Accretion servitors in the list you've got. Yea, everything is an Arc Node, but ADOs still provide her with a dispoable one, or one that can get into a wonky position to cast with before you need to activate the warjack or so you don't need to give it focus to run.

>>43802868
I'm doing that fucking 8 Modulator list. I've already done the fuckload of Galvanizers, which is hilarious in it's own way, but I need to do the Modulator one as well.

>>43802868

I'll give that a lot of consideration when I go to expand. thanks! I think I really need to save up for the colossal though.

>>43802870

that's a good point. and it still keeps me in tier 3. I should have bought another pack of reflex servs

>>43797757
Well that depends. What exactly is killing your Cataphracts?

>>43802925
Yeah, the colossal is more important than more jacks of some kind. The PA is simply fantastic.

>>43802996

I don't know if I want one in both lists though. I might only use it in mother tier 4 and use jack spam with synth

>>43802996
Well, while the PA is absolutely incredible, I do not think he's as required as people think.

It's all about caster, I think. Mother wants him incredibly badly, Synth makes him really good, but also plays perfectly fine without him. Neither of them are incredibly good at protecting him, which is often an issue.

>>43803018

It's not required but I do want to get one as I enjoy the model and think it is bonkers with mother

>>43803035
It's pretty much bonkers with everyone but Aurora and Axis.

I do generally believe it should be in at least one of your lists, but when I run Lucant/Synth for pairings it's going with Lucant. Synth just does so much with jack spam, I think, of all sorts of kinds. ADR makes him a huge threat with jack spam.

>>43803045

I want to eventually get stuff for an aurora list but I don't know where to start. I have basically nothing for her. what does infantry does she like most next to the angels?

>>43802656
>Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
>Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
>Accretion Servitors (1pts)
>Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
>Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
>Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
>Attunement Servitors (2pts)
>Elimination Servitors (2pts)
>Elimination Servitors (2pts)
>Reflex Servitor (2pts)
That*s way too much support for 35p. Invest more into your battlegroup. You hava induction and Synergy for a reason.

>>43803068
Aurora's got the distinct problem of not having a damage buff in a faction of POW12, and really suffers for that.

Eradicators are great with her, because you can use her feat to dig super deep with them. They're more than capable of digging through your opponents front line and then burying themselves into his second line, forcing them to have to try and kill you without a charge.

Recips are nice because they can shield wall order, move around to hit shit, then form back up afterwards. Lets them clear out the flanks a lot better and still be their pain in the ass self afterwards.

Beyond that, she doesn't mind Reductors, and plays fine with Obstructors(though the lack of a damage buff really hurts them the most). She's technically good with Perforators, but those guys are bad, so no one really bothers to use them.

I usually take two units of Angels with her, myself.

>>43789032
>Farrow warlock with a Gatorman Bokor buddy.
I've got the exact same thing going in my IKRPG group except I'm playing the Gatorman Bokor.

>>43786230
>A character helljack for Goreshade so you have some use for Horseshade's jack points.
Make it a necroteched Myrmidion and you've sold me.

>>43772600
You're most of the way to building her theme list at 50 pts. Here's what I'd aim for.

50/ 50
Vayl2(Vayl, Consul of Everblight) 6 PC
* Harrier 2 PC
* Angelius !8! PC
* Angelius !8! PC
* Ravagore !9! PC
* Scythean !8! PC
* Naga Nightlurker 5 PC
Spawning Vessel (7 models) 3 PC
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (10 models) 6 PC
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion 4 PC
Blighted Nyss Shepherd 1 PC
Blighted Nyss Shepherd 1 PC
Spell Martyr 1 PC

You'd just need the Sorceress, a Naga, a Spell Martyr, and Legionairres for this.

When using Vayl2 it's a no-brainer to go with her theme list. You're not even really sacrificing anything.

>>43797096
I've heard that standard price for tabletop quality is the MSRP of the painted model.

>>43805732
>>43772600
Or go full crazy:

Vayl, Consul of Everblight (*6pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Angelius (8pts)
* Ravagore (9pts)
* Ravagore (9pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
1 Spell Martyr (1pts)

>>43806013
Outside of specific scenarios 4 Angelii would hurt more than help.

They have the repulse for the zone control, but they don't shit damage like a Scythean.

Also, Vayl2 really likes a jamming unit to screen her. Not to mention feeding the pot.

>>43806097
My friend ran a four Angel list at the WTC and it was pretty brutal. It lacks crazy high damage but that's usually needed if you drop it into the right match ups.

>Muse on Minis getting burnt out
>Ozmachine burnt out
>Battle Driven not been positive the last 3 podcasts

So uh... Is the old guard of podcasts burning out?

>>43806275
WTC should be disregarded for regular competitive play.

The entire format is designed around getting favorable matchups.

>>43806097
I was going to post an even worse list, but even the 4chan spam detection hates it.

>>43788792
I played a Trollkin Ranger/Longrider
I inspired my entire group to make */Longriders

We played a unit of longriders that got separated from a sortie until the battle was lost and rode ahead of the Khadoran forces to evacuate the Kriel. Of course none of this was what the GM had planned.

Highlights from the game include but are not limited to:
Trying to destroy some sort of magical mcguffin
Meeting Grissal Bloodsong and pledging ourselves to her cause.
Herding escaped dire trolls back to camp.
Slaughtering an entire war camp of sleeping Khadoran soldiers
Escorting trollkin refugees through the thornwood
Generally kicking the teeth out of anyone who thought they could stand up to 5 charging bison

>>43806658
Status in the game in general.

The old catchphrase of "it's not the list" simply isn't true anymore because so many counter play options got removed and the checks and balances of the game has been disrupted.

>>43792238
I realize I'm about a full day late to this conversation, but something that really helped me enjoy the game was when I realized that the battles that we're playing out aren't actual battles, but rather sorties and advanced strike forces hand-picked by a legendary commander for the sole purpose of completing a specific goal to aid the battle at large.

You win and lose by assassination because when the commander gets injured and needs to retreat, there aren't enough troops left with the knowledge of the goal to reasonably complete it and/or stop the opposing forces from completing their goals. Death clocks represent the amount of time that can be taken before the commander is needed back in command of the full battle. Scenarios are the objectives you are sent to secure.

I'm a bit weird when it comes to fluff stuff. If a game has fluff I like to adhere to it even if it puts me at a disadvantage. Learning that Cygnar is mostly composed of trenchers would have had me putting a ton of those bastards in my lists if I played Cygnar. But that's not necessary because Haley could reasonably decide that she doesn't need any trenchers to take the objective so even though there are 100s of them at her disposal, she took the 10 gun mages instead.

File: no wonder they're losing.jpg (112KB, 714x372px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 714x372px

>>43807519
It also explains how a lieutenant UA ends up commanding like, 10 guys.

And you aren't that weird anon some people only play farrow

>>43806889
Good lists are still good lists

>>43807683
WTC kind of forces a super skewed rock paper scissors type of play (more then the game as a whole though) a good list that might as well not bother against a certain % of lists isn't the kind of thing really usable in normal play (or even a steamroller unless your number 2 is very carefully chosen as a take-all-comers backup)

File: 1440279198925.jpg (431KB, 900x506px) Image search: [Google]

431KB, 900x506px

Imagine a world /wmg/.... Imagine a world where non warnouns don't get above ARM 16... so wonderful...

>>43807802
Why the fuck would robot people be limited to ARM16?

>>43807802
Why...?

>>43807802
That sounds terrible. Armor value isn't the problem. Devastators have never raped the meta.

It's armor that is common and can't be roadblocked that is making the game miserable

>>43807889
Pretty sure by war- nouns he means jacks and beasts as well. Still a stupid idea, IMO.

Sounds like you guys just need to play more Cryx.

>>43807931
But I'm not a WAAC asshole.

>>43807974
>WAAC
Go back to Warhammer, your kind are not welcome here

>>43807918
not him, but i too have felt the salt of "why do POW 10 guns even exist" and "why does this man in a big suit of armour have better protection than something 3 foot taller that IS a suit of armour"

that's not to say he's right, but we have all had that feeling (unless you're cryx who don't give a fuck)

>>43808077
>why do POW 10 guns even exist
To shoot light infantry? There's tons of stuff with arm <17 that pow is supper effective at killing

Imma just waiting for good light arty

there should be light arty units of like 3 guns for like 5pts

>>43807918
I know what he means

>>43808234
HA they told me that i was mad for thinking it was going to be a dual kit!

Mad they said!

>>43808234
It looks chunky.

>>43808234
oh shit son, we plastic now

Also damn they made him thick

>>43808234
Dumb pose. Great sculpt.

>>43808130
Not that guy but you're missing the point.

When you're playing against an infantry attrition list and all of the troops are at a minimum of ARM 17 before buffs and shield wall and defensive line and all that jazz it can be very disheartening when you suddenly realize that 90% of your ranged firepower is at POW 12 and less.

>>43808263
>>43808277
its brock lesnar!

>>43808234
thought it was a picture of mulg for a second, love the look.

>>43808277
>>43808234

Hopefully it'll fit better on top of it's base now that the arms aren't splayed out like the metal wrastler

>>43767644
>Friend wants to get a Blight Bringer

I will laugh at his giant toothed spermatozoa.

>>43808288
Then you're playing the wrong lists for your meta

>>43808234
Oh shit. I might have to start Gators now instead of building on my Legion. I would love to play team Luchador.

>>43808401
It's actually more of a hydralisk.
The art for it is fucking terrible and makes it look like a squig.

File: 1446399293756.png (127KB, 654x590px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 654x590px

>>43808234
Also does this mean they don't have more heavy planned for gators? Dammit I guess my heavy with decent pow and reach will be a character

>>43808432
>hydralisk
Pretty sure that's closer to an Ultralisk.

>>43808488
Look at the model from the side.

>>43808414
...or you can ask your opponent not to skew so heavy on armor?

You will have to make some concessions as well depending on what you play.

>>43808452
I love this image and will never get tired of it

>>43808234
>Minions get a release from the latest hordes book within months of the books release
>Meanwhile, warmachine is STILL waiting for not only second generation colossals, but warjacks from well over a year ago.

Nice priorities there, Penis Pullers!

>>43808567
No. You're opponent shouldn't have to change their lists to make you feel better. If you can't beat them with pow 10 guns you need to change up your lists and try something new.

The game changes and evolves. Some models aren't as good as they used to be

>>43808414
that brings us back to the first guy though. When a good % of your ranged shit is just "worthless- never take ever" that's kind of a shit situation for a newbie who doesn't know any better or a vet who is bored of using the same 1-2 styles over and over.

>>43808627
>You are
Goddammit phone

>>43808640
Metas change and evolve, we shouldn't be playing the same shit over and over again because that gets boring. Right there's a ton of high arm, you should be building to counter that

If a new guy jumps into the game it's up to the people in his meta to help teach them what's good. That's what PGs are for.

>>43808627
I struggle to think of an actual honest-to-goodness situation in which taking a squad of long gunners is EVER a good idea.

Even in the abstract, there should at least be a corner case where they can be worth their points.

>>43808698
Equally though you can just look at how we got here for a second, mk1 was all infantrymachine because 'jacks couldn't do anything like the same amount of work, mk2 (mostly) addressed that and led to where we are now, full of high arm infantry on medium bases that can really just deal with anything at least passably, and jacks that have them same armour values but are that much easier to disable.

We shouldn't be playing the same shit over and over you are right, but you can't place that sentiment alongside 'you must also do whats optimal for your faction choices or you are beneath contempt and i am better than you' because whats best tends to be always true until a rule update, and what has variety is never going to be the single, optimal choice.

>>43808627
Hey buddy. Sometimes people don't own the models for that. Warmachine is no longer the game it used to be.

You kinda have to not be a dick when that happens. If they have the meta answer, they probably wouldn't be demoralized right?

In a perfect world you shouldn't, but not everyone can deal with it with what they have.

Dont be a Dick.

>>43807683
Its not that great though. Its success is most likely atributed to the WTC format. >>43807717 explains it well

How would one go about making a Luchadore Gators list? I don't know where to start besides wrastlers for wraslin'.

File: 1442872476244.jpg (110KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 400x400px

>>43808862

>>43809188
Take one wrastler with Rask, maybe sometimes one with Jaga and Calaban. Wrastlers just aren't very good warbeasts and gators love to run tons of their super good infantry and sacral vault instead. I've been playing minions since domination and have never wanted to own a second wrastler besides some tricky throw-rise shenanigans but they are super telegraphed and not all that strong if your opponent knows his shit.

>>43808234
Maybe I will get one for wrong eye to run for denny3. Now I will have a shield gaurd heavy! S-stupid inflictor

>>43809247
That's sad. That makes me sad. I know they have great infantry because Gatormen largely make Ogrins obsolete in LoE (iirc, that has changed a bit thanks to UA).

Take one and done for gators then?

>>43808838
Fiona the black list with double longgunners melt through meat mountain style lists since with affliction, they are essentially 40 widowmakers.

>>43809420
I think the Blightbringer puts the ogren back on the map

>>43808175
Winter Guard mortar is fantastic under eIrusk as long as you put FFE on them.

Other than that, good luck.

Whats better to build on a Legion battlebox?

Legionnaires and UA
or
Ogrun Warspears and UA

>>43810225
Legionaires get more play. Get really good with Spawning vessel.

Warspears will benefit from Lylths feat and can do decent damage with assault.

I'd pick Legionaires but that's cause I like a vengeance reach unit.

>>43810413
Thanks, I was also thinking Swordsmen, but miniaturemarket is out of them and thats where I'm ordering xmas gifts for my friends who are starting battleboxes with me.

File: semen bringer.jpg (342KB, 520x676px) Image search: [Google]

342KB, 520x676px

>>43808432
>>43808488
>>43808535
Still a giant angry sperm to me.

>>43809468
They're also great against Heavy targets, able to damn near one round a heavy.

>>43809468
That sounds like a great way to clock yourself.

>>43810767
It's the greatest weakness of the list.

>>43810767
>>43810864
They all do one damage, you just roll to hit quickly. Only way you're going to clock yourself is if you're bad

>>43810907
Moving and checking LoS and range will also take time. That shit adds up.

>>43810930
Not really. You're dropping this into medium based high arm lists. They all have LOS and you measure range from the back guy. It's super easy and shouldn't take very long.

It only takes forever if you're a scrub

>>43810949
Affliction is that when you fail to damage, you get a ding.

Unless impossible, you still have to roll for damage.

>>43811026
Only if your opponent is a cunt

>>43811044
Or you're plaing by the rules.

>>43811026
Even then it should only take you couple seconds to roll both. It doesn't take very long

>>43811068
>Playing with people who have shitty 'win at all cost' attitudes
>Not just there to play the game for fun
>People bringing MMM lists
>People having to bring anti-MMM lists

>>43811044
Yeah, no.

If you're playing a list that is designed to hard counter my list and your list's biggest weakness is clocking out, we're playing by rules as written. Rules as written say that you roll for damage. Now, it's one thing if your guys are dealing 1 damage on double 6s or can't deal damage through rolling at all, but if you think someone's gonna let you skip rolling damage when you could hit for anywhere from 0 - 6 damage on a roll, you've got another thing coming.

It's not about being a cunt or WAAC, but if you've brought a list to exploit somebody else's weakness then you should expect to have to deal with your's.

>>43811245
The win at any cost attitude includes cheating and misinformation.

If the guy bringing MMM isn't feeding you bad tactics, cheating, and/or not being honest about how his rules and your rules interact then he isn't playing to win at any cost, he's just being overly competitive.

Learn the difference.

>>43811253
>People use miserable meat mountain lists
>Someone makes something to counter it

WELL FUCK YOU FOR TRYING TO EXPLOIT AND SKEW THE RULES

>>43811079
You roll to hit, roll to damage.

Ignoring verbal declarations, that's about 2 seconds to roll a pair of dice. So it's about 4 seconds per attack and that's 40 shots per turn. That's 3 mins of pure shooting with zero talk, zero flipping the clock over for tough and it's not even measuring distance. 3 mins is a long ass time for just plain rolling for units that doesn't even fill half your points. It's a good module, but thinking that the module does not eat time is stupid.

>>43811373
Thanks only-one-here-who-can-do-basic-calculations.

>>43811245
>playing by the rules is wrong.

Jesus Christ, every thread wmhg just sinks lower and lower

>>43811400
Well, someone had to.

>>43811455
Definitely. It shows just how skewed subjective prespective usually is.

>>43811373
Thanks for proving me right I guess?
Three minutes isn't a very long time when you have an hour long clock and only need to kill like ten to fifteen trolls

Have you ever actually played the lists we're talking about or are you talking out your ass?

>>43810930
Fiona has a spell that lets them ignore models for LoS purposes.

The list flows quickly enough. All you have to do is roll the dice and immediately declare one damage point. In fact, this is when scooping can be used for good.

Simply roll the dice and pick them up quickly, declaring that it failed to wound. If they dispute it, simply say you're sorry they missed it and say you'll just assume it was double ones, then apply the point of damage anyways.

Works best if you agree with your opponent beforehand to do this with any rolls they miss.

>>43811523
Yes I played against it. Again, 3 mins of just dice rolling. No words like "I'm aiming, I'm in (range), a point, I hit, tough roll" being dropped at all.
no time for measuring, no time to declare other targets, no time to make any kind of decisions.

>>43811540
>Purposefully hiding the dice and lying about the result.

This is cheating. Blatant cheating. It would be excusable if turns weren't timed but they are. Taking less time than required is cheating your opponent out of winning by a weakness that you built into your list. Period.

I hate playing against MMM as much as the next guy but if you have to cheat to win, then maybe you should rethink your strategies.

>>43811540
Get two colours of dice and roll em at the same time, against any real armor your looking for like 10+ on the second pair anyway, so its mostly ignored.
Still takes a bit, cuts it down considerably. Thats how i do it on Caine when they do singles. If people want to complain about that they can eat a bag of dicks, imo.

>>43811540
Not allowing dice results to be confirmed is plain cheating.

>>43811638
>Yes I played against it.
Funny, I don't believe you

If you establish what you need to hit and what you need for damage you shouldn't need to explain to your opponent every single thing you do. If you do need to stop and explain it because they're exceptionally thick headed that should only add a couple extra minutes. So if you're good, five minutes at most to do all 40 shots maybe a little more.

That's not very long at all. If your opponent is being really dumb call a judge over and have them mark the damage for your opponent. Don't waste any of your time explaining basic shit to them

>>43811704
No one cares? You're never going G to would do on two dice so why roll it? If your opponent is a cunt go ahead and do it quickly and move on. This is actually an advantage for your opponent since you miss out on the occasional spike and it may take an extra shot or two for you kill a dude.

File: trolls_glacierking_damageportrait.png (566KB, 512x717px) Image search: [Google]

566KB, 512x717px

>>43811652
As long as your opponent agrees to it at the beginning of the game, and the dice are assigned before the roll, this should be fine.

>>43811704
This.

>>43811640
How is it cheating to assume the worst possible roll for my dice when I roll them?

>>43811756
Because grognards want to bleed your clock as much as possible and want you to lose.

This is because they are WAAC cunts

>>43811756
Because dice rolls need to be confirmed, that's part of the rules. By scooping dice like that you're ignoring one of the major weaknesses of your list.

It would be like if the MMM player just refused to mark damage when your Long Gunners shot him. His list is weak to getting melted by Long Gunners with Affliction, your list is weak to clocking yourself because you're got to throw a billion dice, you're not allowed to eliminate your weakness by cheating any more than he is.

>>43811792
There are better ways to do that though.

As a Lucant player, trying to force them to make dice rolls to clock them is often a very poor choice, you're only looking at a few minutes, at most.

>>43811824
That's why you agree before the game to assume any die rolls not confirmed to be the worst possible result. Then dice don't need to be confirmed, because you just assume double ones.

>>43811747
>No one cares?
Obviously some people do or this discussion wouldn't be happening.

>You're never going to wound on two dice so why roll it?
In my meta if the roll allows for no chance to wound (that means even 6, 6 is 0 damage) the attacker can ask permission to skip rolling damage and move directly to applying on hit effects. The defender can still make the attacker roll damage (but it's seen as a dick move and nobody does it).

>This is actually an advantage for your opponent since you miss out on the occasional spike and it may take an extra shot or two for you kill a dude.
Wrong. You're killing the opponents dudes anyway, so damage spikes aren't a concern of his. You are however skirting the rules to take less time than would be necessary by doing this, which is in effect stealing extra time for your death clock. Hence it's cheating.

>>43811843
>That's why you agree before the game to assume any die rolls not confirmed to be the worst possible result.
You're assuming the MMM player will agree to that, which is one fuck of an assumption. Maybe if he's an idiot or just hates his life and wants to lose, sure, but otherwise don't expect that to fly.

I'd agree to it if I got to ignore one out of every three of your shots at my discretion, that would be fair I think.

>>43811824
>>43811843
Take this situation, for example. Opponent being a bitch about dice, refusing to grease things over?

Insist he marks his damage where you can see it. Don't let him simply mark the cards on his side of the table, make sure you can watch him do it. If that means you have to walk around the table(on his clock, of course, because he's marking damage), then so be it.

Ensure you walk back every time he's done marking damage before you start again.

If he's using a tablet? Same thing. Either make him set it down in an open spot where you can both see it to mark the damage(and those screens are just terrible for weird angles, aren't they? Always making you move into the perfect position to be able to see what's going on).

Forcing dice rolls is like, 2-3 seconds a roll. Forcing marking damage is easily 6-7 seconds, sometimes more if they're naturally messy markers.

>>43811887
>Insist he marks his damage where you can see it. Don't let him simply mark the cards on his side of the table, make sure you can watch him do it. If that means you have to walk around the table(on his clock, of course, because he's marking damage), then so be it.

Then he calls the judge over and the judge drags you to the front of the room and rapes you.

Confirming dice is basic shit. Like one of the first things you learn needs to be done at tournaments.

>>43811887
Unsportsmanlike conduct, warning. Do it again and you'll get a game loss. Now roll your dice like a normal person.

>>43811843
>That's why you agree before the game to assume any die rolls not confirmed to be the worst possible result. Then dice don't need to be confirmed, because you just assume double ones.

That's akin to having someone ask you if you'll agree to let any ongoing fire deal automatic 1 damage. You agree because you've got some ongoing fire and it's an interesting buff to the effect. Then you realize that he brought Fiora.

Just because you and your opponent agree to change the rules for your game doesn't mean that it's not still against the rules. It also reeks of you setting yourself up to cover your own weakness with a rule that your opponent may not realize is benefiting you way more than him.

>>43811792
Smells like warhammer in here

>>43811756
Quick dicing like that is a faux pas in pretty much every dice game. In this case fine, you auto deal one damage, but now I don't really trust you to not scoop on important rolls

>ITT people being salty buttholes about dice roles in a toy solder game

Never change /tg/, never change

>>43811792
It's one thing to build and use a list designed to clock out your opponent, it's quite another to expect your opponent to follow the goddamn rules when using a list that is vulnerable to getting clocked.

Protip: the latter isn't WAAC.

>>43811980
>Let's selectively ignore rules when they hurt me and if you don't agree you're a WAACfag

Never change /Warhammer/, never change.

>>43811747
>Funny, I don't believe you
That's your problem, not mine.
I know what it takes, I know how the module works. If you don't think 40 shots take a long time, following the rules, then go ahead. Play that thing.

File: 1448203387727.jpg (49KB, 344x291px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 344x291px

>>43812015
>>43811980

>>43812015
>Has answer to MMM
>Clocks out executing it

The real reason the rules say you have to roll it out is so it does not set a precedent for friendly damage rolls being declared "Auto 1s"

While I would love to enable something in the meta that butt-devastates MMM out of the game entirely the ruling will always be that damage rolls are required.

>>43812338
>While I would love to enable something in the meta that butt-devastates MMM out of the game
Have you tried playing Cryx?

>>43811973
>Quick dicing like that is a faux pas in pretty much every dice game. In this case fine, you auto deal one damage, but now I don't really trust you to not scoop on important rolls

I'm actually super careful on important rolls, for one, and for another, this is why I agree it's an auto snake eyes.

With the rules agreement, I have absolutely zero reason to not let you see important rolls, because if I scoop them then they're automatically the worst roll I could have gotten.

The rule is only a benefit when the numbers on the dice mean absolutely nothing, but my opponent still insists I roll because he's an asshat.

>>43812450
I insist you roll because there is a difference for the dice roll and you should fucking follow the rules of the game when you fucking play them.

>>43812536
No, you insist I roll because you know I have a list that stomps yours and now you're just trying to grasp at straws so that you don't get your ass beaten.

File: 1340230890762.jpg (192KB, 960x630px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 960x630px

>>43812556
And this is a fantastic way to get dqed by the judge. Way to go anon

File: 1415591982086.jpg (8KB, 475x479px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 475x479px

>>43812556
I guess there's a time for everything to be appropriate.

>nice projecting

>>43812419
Yup. It works but its dumb I have to change factions to keep a Troll player on his toes.

Ahhhh motherlaaaaaand!!

>>43812673
Meh, we aren't that scared of butcher 3

>>43812709
No I meant I normally play Khador.

But yeah Trolls don't care. Point and Click. Tank and spank.

>>43812556
Not trying to be a cunt here, but I always liked playing devil's advocate.

If you have a list that beats mine, but it clocks out if you don't follow the rules then you don't really have a list that beats mine at all, do you?

>>43812556
>What is page 5

Not cheaping out to win that's for sure.

>>43813076
Except as discussed in this thread already the time constraints of the rolls are hardly a deciding factor, with proper practice, they're barely anything.

No, this is someone just trying to be as much as a dick as possible because their netlist got it's shit shoved in and now they need to do anything to not lose a game, and thus, their self worth.

>>43813384
Again, nice projecting.

Play the game properly

>>43813384
You mean the 4 - 6 seconds of rolling per 20 models before declaring attacks, hits, amounts of damage, and asking for tough checks?

Even if it only takes 2 seconds to roll and check for a hit on 2d6 (it takes me about 3 - 4) and another 2 seconds to roll 2d6 and determine damage, it still takes about 1 - 2 seconds to say "0 damage, so automatic 1 from X, check for tough." You're looking at spending a minimum of 5 seconds per model (with a more reasonable estimate of 7 - 10 seconds per shot) for 40 shots. That's 200 seconds. Minimum. That's 3 minutes and 20 seconds.

Adding another second per shot to declare targets? You're at 4 minutes now. It takes you 3 seconds per model to move them into shooting lanes? 6 minutes.

These aren't unreasonable times either. When 1/10 of your total allotted time is spent on one or two units each and every round, clocking out is a real possibility. It cannot all just be dismissed as "I'm fast enough so this doesn't apply."

>>43813723
>You're looking at spending a minimum of 5 seconds per model

If you're a fucking scrub, maybe.

>>43813384
So, if with enough practice the time constraints of rolling those dice are negligible, why protest rolling them in the first place? Why not make that one of the skills needed to play, like estimating distance with only control area as reference?

>>43813755
Get off the thread micromachine advertisement guy.

>>43813895
Guessing measurements is another stupid ass wargame rule that needs to die.

You know what would make Warmahordes better? Hex based maps.

No more toeing in. No more .25" failed charges. No more placing skill on being able to eyeball distances, a skill that's stupid and has no place in a wargame. No more disputes about incredibly small measurements.

It does nothing but improve the game.

>>43814839
While I don't disagree with the stupidity of estimated measurements in a game of precise distances, hexes are a bit too far. Doesn't really represent the different sizes well, and is an incredibly silly looking for a large wargame.

>>43811253
You can't roll 0 on a d6.

>>43810225
>>43810413

warspears + UA are an amazing unit that fit very well with the battlebox and several other casters. it depends on who you want to play with. if you like the vayls, legionaires are the way to go, if you like pthagrosh or kallus, go with warspears.

also if you are asking to go from 15 to 25 points in a journeyman league, warspears are hands down the correct choice

>>43814839
Pre measuring on the game of this scale takes too fucking long.

Games that let you premeasure stuff can get away with it because the unit activates in one cohesive blob or the game is a small skirmish.

>>43816735
That's why I didn't suggest premeasuring.

>>43814946
There'd have to be some redesigns, but I don't think it'd have quite as many issues as people seem to think.

>>43816961
>There'd have to be some redesigns, but I don't think it'd have quite as many issues as people seem to think.

You'd have to completely redesign the game.

>>43816990
Only the movement system, really.

>>43816735
But if there's a clock what's the harm in someone measuring themselves to death?

>>43815230
Nobody said you could.

>>43817021
>Only the movement system, really.

You really don't understand the implications of this, do you?

Let's just look at something as simple as base size. Normally, a medium base is about 1.7 times the area of a small base.

However, if we switch over to a hex map, things change drastically. In this scenario, if a small base covers one hex, then the next step up from that would have to cover 7 hexes. Instead of being 1.7 times the area of a small base, medium bases are now 7 times the area of a small base. Hell, a 50mm base is only 2.7 times the area of a 30mm base.

Surely even you can see the implications of something like that.

>>43817034
Apparently, some people really don't like the threat of getting clocked, if this thread is anything to go by.

>>43817245
You're assuming that such bases would have to be symmetrical, or even the same size across the board.

What's stopping a medium base model from occupying a space one hex long and three hexes wide, for example?

>>43817034
Because it's fucking boring and frankly it's likely that the sr document will allow for longer clock time if that was the case.

The game already runs long and there's no reason to add even more time eating elements.

>>43817470
Because that is fucking stupid.
it's so unnecessary.

>>43817804
How the fuck is it unnessicary?

You instantly resolve 90% of issues that happen on competitive tables: problems with measurements and issues of distance.

There's no longer any bullshit gray area of who was in and who was out. There's no longer requiring people to master a frankly pointless skill in order to play the game.

It fixes a huge amount of the game's bullshit.

>>43817245
Doesn't that one super hero game use skirmish rules and hexes? Give it a shot, anon.

>>43818326
I've played plenty of wargames that uses hex based movement.

This is why I'm showcasing it as the superior movement system.

>>43818285
So long as nobody is cheating while playing or knocking shit over like a spaz there aren't any grey areas on ranges and measurements.

The template sets come with a melee measurement tool, use it.

>>43818708
You've...you've never actually been to a tourney, have you? A real one, I mean.

The gray area of .25 inches and even smaller distances often wins and loses games, simply because it's basically impossible to judge if you're in a range or not.

>>43818770
Git better then.

Also your irregular hex is so fucking pointless as an addition. What the fuck is hexes in different arrangements supposed to bring? We aren't playing tetris here.

>>43815944
Thanks, I ended up just buying a box of Warspears and Legionnaires and the UAs for both so I can experiment.

I'd have probably been better off spending money for another heavy beast or some other warlock but oh well so far I like Lylyth1. I'm getting great mileage out of my Shredders too, they pretty much have won me all my games.

What caster is a good toolbox caster for Legion?

I've played 4 games so far, against Trolls and Khador, won 3. Trolls box is pretty easy to beat but I only think I won my game with Khador's cause my opponent left Sorscha open which he'll make sure not to do next time.

Any good tips for cracking heavies with high ARM?

>nothing new
>no no quarter
>no news
>scheduled releases taken down
This game feels dead.